The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jacob "Stitch" Duran

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Chris is joined by the best cut-man in the business; Jacob "Stitch" Duran to talk about how he got into combat sports when growing up he wanted to be a baseball player, what his coming out moment as a cut-man was, and what it's been like being in seven movies and being called an actor. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Watch this. Hosted by S.I.'s Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, there are few better named people in sports than the man that is my guest on this week's show. Jacob Stitch Durand, long time boxing, mixed martial arts, cut man.

star of the Rocky movies. Got the privilege to work with him ever so briefly in the most recent Creed movie. He is everywhere at every fight. One of the most visible guys in the sport with an incredible story to boot. Stitch. Good to see him. I've been wanting to do

something like this for a while because you have two e-books out there. I've read them both. And you just have a great story. So let me ask you this first. Give me the origin story of Stitch. Well, it's a long story. It was, number one, what an introduction.

Thank you. I've had plenty, Chris. Pretty bad. I said me the recording. Done. Anyway, yeah, you know what? I've had a, I'm blessed to do what I do. You know, I started off as a farm worker,

born and raised in a migrant camp in the San Joaquin Valley of California, which is the agro cultural capital of the world. As a matter of fact, my birth certificate for the address, it's CPC number 12, California Panking Company. So it don't get much lower than that, right? But to be where I'm at now, you know, talking to you to me, it's an accomplishment. And every day I just, you know, thank God to have the privilege to do the things that I've been doing. I mean, I've been, you're talking about Creed 3.

I've been in seven movies. Three with Rocky. How many people, you know, have done three movies with Stallone? I have. How many guys, you know, I've done three movies with Michael B. Jordan. I have, you know, Antonio Baneros, Woody Harrelson, Ocean's 11 cast. It blows my mind because I'm always that little Chicano that grew up as a farm worker. So everything's possible.

So you grow up as a farm worker. Tell me about the journey to get to this point. I know it's a long story, but that's what podcasts are for. I want to hear this story. And I love telling it, but baseball was my dream. You know, I always played every year we played baseball, and I played varsity ball all four years, but we didn't have a JV, so that was easy to do.

But I always wanted to be a pro, and I walked on to Merced College, which is a J.C. by Panada, he's nine miles away. But I didn't have a car. So I would go to school with friends, and after school, they would leave, I'd stay in our practice and then have to hitchhike home. And, you know, I went to the recruiter and joined the Air Force in 1979.

And in 1974, they stationed me in a place called Thailand. I didn't even know what Thailand was. I was that naive as a young guy, but I always said if I went to the Orient, I'd want to study the martial arts. That was during the Bruce Lee era. And so I saw my first Muay Thai fight, and that whole year, I just stayed in the martial arts. And I got back to the States. I got into boxing to prove my hands and moved to Fairfield, California from Oakland, and opened up a school of kickboxing.

It was just a credit card, ASK, in American School of Kickboxing. So I trained kids, adults, but I also had some top-of-the-line fighters. Dennis DeLexha, one of them. He was the brother, for John Claude Van Damme in the movie Kickboxer. So from there, but 23, 28 years ago, I wanted to follow my dreams, and I put it for a job transfer with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, He was with him for all those years. And I moved to Vegas, and here I am.

My first coming out fight was Raul Marcus when he fought Keith Mollins. He ended up with five cuts, something like 70 stitches, and kept them in the game. And, you know, Chuck Bodak comes up to me and says, man, you know, where'd you come from? So that was good. So I had a great career, and here I am, you know, just loving life. So how, when does it get into your, when do you start to think I'd like to be a cut man? Like, when does that dream? When is that dream form?

It happened when I had my school of kickboxing. As I got into boxing, amateur boxing, I started training amateur fighters. As a matter of fact, I just spoke to my first world champion, Chappo Vargas. He's 55 years old now, and at King's Gym in Oakland. But from there, I had my school of kickboxing, so I was already wrapping hands. You know, not so much working cuts, but when I had my school of kickboxing, guys used elbows and knees and all that. And I had to learn that trait to just,

work everything. I promoted the fights. I managed the fighters and, you know, so I did every aspect, but being a cut man kind of floated to the top, you know, and I think, you know what, I'm going to move to Vegas because that's where all the big boys are at, right? The boxing capital of the world. And, yeah, RJ Reynolds called me and I put in for a transfer and they gave me one week. I said, man, I can't do it in one week. And I talked to him into two weeks. I swear to God, I transferred my my school to a student. I put my house on the market and I sold it. I'm sure I lost a lot of money, put my family in a U-Haul and drove nine hours to Las Vegas and called my mom. I said, Mom, got a new number, literally.

Took a $25,000 a year cut and pay. So it was a sacrifice, and I rolled the dice and it came out okay. The last time I gambled. I think a lot of people look at cut men and wonder how you get into it. Do you train for it? Like your first experience cutting, like doing cuts? Like, what was your preparation like? You know, that's an excellent question.

and I was just talking to Sergio Estrada about cut men. You know, they come to me for advice now through, you know, the experience that I have. But Marvis Frazier was fighting Bone Crusher Smith, Richmond, California, right? I was making the transition from a trainer to a cut man. And I was at the fights, and I saw this one guy that did a good job on cuts. So I went up to him and I said, hey, you know, I'm trying to be a cut man. Can he tell me what you did? He says, fuck you.

He was, I'm taking this to my grave. And you've got to learn like me. And he walked away, right? Chris, I've done this interview hundreds of times, never mentioned his name. But that wasn't important. The point is I never wanted to be like this man. So, you know, my whole goal has always been to teach. And, you know, unfortunately, there's nothing that we can learn from outside of experience.

But, you know, I talked to a lot of the doctors here in Las Vegas, and they're the best of the best. And I practiced what, you know, they wanted me to do and all that. And so, yeah, wrapping hands, you know, I practice. I practiced on myself and wrapped a ton of free hands just to get where I'm at. When you first get started, was it ever overwhelming for you in these early fights, whether it's some guy was badly cut and you're in there and like, holy shit, like this is a serious thing here? No. No.

No, I've, you know, the one, number one thing for being a good cut man to keep you into composure. But keep in mind, I was already working major fights in kickboxing, so I knew how to control my adrenaline level. and then being a cut man, yeah, my whole focus, does my adrenaline shoot up to the top? Yes, it does. But then that's, well, like last I did the fight Saturday, and Bernardo got cut, Bernardo asked me about it, a piece of cake, right?

After a while, you just learn to keep your composure and know what you have to do through proper applications. When does it become your career? When do you become, this is my life? At what point does that happen? You know, good question, man. I like that. When I moved there,

Cornelius Boza Edwards told me before I moved here, we were going to England, working with Art Sorano, a boxer, and I had just met Boza Edwards, and I told him I wanted to move Las Vegas. He says, and I tell young kids all the time, he says, you need three things. You need a job, a place to stay in a car.

And I always kept that in mind. So I worked with Trepco, which was a wholesaler that sold groceries to the stores, and to the point where I was traveling so much that they said, you know what, maybe you should just be doing that full time. And so I left Travico, and they were great about it. And so at that moment, that's when life, I got a lot of calls.

And everything that, every call that I've gotten to this day, everything that has happened to me, to this day, I've never asked for one job, I swear. I just, I proud Chicano. And, you know, I had a chance to work with Floyd years before, Raffas, because I walk into top rank, and he's going, he's had problems with his hands. So he's going through a rap session.

with this guy and I'm looking at it and it's too tight. I could tell right off the bat. So Floyd and James Prince walk into the dressing room and they're coming out, cutting it off. And at that point I could have said, hey, Floyd, I'll wrap your hands. I knew I would have got the job. But I didn't out of respect to the cut man and then Rafael came on board and I'm glad he got the assignment because it was well deserved. But you know, those opportunities I just, I couldn't kiss nobody's ass. Not my job.

What is more challenging? doing the rap right or fixing a cut? Fixing the cut. You know, the rap is basically, you know, because I do so many new guys. I only ask that because there's so much talk nowadays about how guys are wrapping their hands. I'll answer that for you. What's legal? What's not? I'll answer that for you.

Education is number one, right? Shit, I forgot the question. You got me so excited about wrapping the hands, you know? But wrapping the hands, yes. There was talks about stacking. All right. So let's get into that subject first. I've wrapped thousands of hands, bro.

Thousands, thousands. When Triple G fought Connello the first time, Tom Loeffler called me, and we're part of the Kittsko team, right? Triple G and all that. And we're friends. So he asked me, because I guess Abe, or they filed a complaint that Connello was stacking, Gau's tape, gos tape.

So Tom asked me what I thought about it. I said, it's bullshit. I said, the only reason you wrap a fighter's hands is so they don't break them. So going fast forward, Bob Bennett, the head of the athletic commission here, called me with the same question, told him the same thing. So I met with him in one of the gyms. I wrapped his hands conventional way, and I wrapped him stacking, and there's no difference. But the next day, he brought in the hand specialist because they wanted that second fight, of course, economics, right?

I did the same thing, and he didn't feel that much of a difference. So now it's approved here in Nevada. But the point with stacking is, I know with Fuller, the coach is saying what turns into a cast. man, you know how many guys have wrapped hands and they say, damn, it feels like a cast. That's what you want to create. The rule book says, as long as you keep one inch, well, you got to keep the tape one inch away from the knuckles going backwards. And these are the points of injuries that you've got to protect, metacarpals, the thumb, the wrist. And as long as the gauze is the same for the knuckles, what's the problem?

You tie your shoes different than me, right? So there's no difference. But education, as I say, none of us have to be certified to be golf. professionals. I understand that and there's a lot of faults in what guys are doing. And you know, I was telling Sergio Estrada, one of the questions I always, one of the advice I give these young fighters, I said, look, if you're looking for a cup man and if you put the swab in his mouth or his ear and no gloves, look for another cup man. And then also ask them a very simple question, the adrenaline chloride 1-1-1000 that we use, what is the mechanical

function to that? A lot of guys and I ask them just to, you know, play the dumb part, they're it's a coagulant. Well, if they tell you it's a coaglet, get another cut man. It's a vessel constrictor. So when you put it on the cut, it closes up the blood vessels, right? So as you see me when I work on a cut, I always pinch it first to get whatever blood is within those little vessels. Then I'll put the swab with the adrenaline on it and it soaks into the veins and it closes them up. So education, bro, there's, you know, we need a lot of that. So basically all the controversy out there about handwrap, whether it's in a way or Canello, you think it's kind of much ado about nothing?

100%. Yeah, and the guy asked me today what I thought about it. And I said on the mechanical part, there's, yeah, there's, now it's more psychological than anything else. But it really, you shouldn't learn how to wrap a proper hand. Because like I said, and believe it or not, the knuckles of all four points are the least to get damaged. Because they have their own natural shock absorbers, right? Plus you got the padding and all that. So education, bro.

Because the perception, in some cases, becomes the reality when you have people go on TV and say, oh, that's illegal. That's dangerous. Then they're on social media saying that it's like a snowball effect where if a guy is wrapping hands in the way, using in a way as the example is wrapped hands, like you're going to have a swath of people that wrongly believe he's a cheater. And we'll brand him as such from here to four, which is crazy. Well, and that's education. You know, I mean, I can't say it any simpler than that because.

I saw the video. I was in Japan, right? I worked with Robesci the fight before, but I'm watching it in the TV on how he starts to stack, and it makes so much sense. You know, because, now keep in mind,

if you use that whole roll of gauze to wrap around the fighter's hands, number one, you have, it's thickness, right? And so the point is, when you wrap the hands is you apply, you tighten it up as you go.

Well, the way they're doing it with gauze so it doesn't stick to the skin. And by the way, I wrap my hands with tape on the skin, feels horrible, so don't do it. But the way the father did, he put, you know, gauze enough to put the tape where he wouldn't stick to the skin. But as you do that and you continue, then you minimize the padding.

You see what I'm saying? So you get more of an adhesive, a tighter fit because you don't have that much cushion to tighten up. When I wrap hands, I'll start from one side and I'll wrap and I'll tighten it as I go down. So as a cut man, what was the first really high profile moment for you? like a moment where you had a cut, you needed to be fixed, you knew it. There was just, if you didn't do your job right, the outcome could be changed.

My coming out fight was, he and I just come to Vegas not long, right? Raoul Marcus when he fought Keith Mullins, and Raul was the IVF middleweight champ, I think. He ended up with five cuts right off the bat, right? And I kept him in the game, and Chuck Bodak comes up to me, and really the first one who, he said, hey, man, you did a great job. People didn't know the experience that they didn't know what I was. I just moved to Vegas. But I had a lot of work as a cut man in kickboxing.

Cuts were pretty common, right? So that was my coming out part of Raul Marcus. Something like 70 stitches. I mean, he was gash here on each eyebrow on the nose and underneath his cheek. He was all ripped up, man. So I asked you at the beginning, but I don't know if we got there. Like the nickname Stitch, who gave it to you, where did it come from? Good question.

When I had my school of kickboxing, like I said, I worked with Dennis Alexio. At that time was the greatest athlete I ever met. They retired his number in high school for baseball and football. Great athlete was undisputed kickboxing champion all that. Well, his sparring partner, Dave Rooney, because we used to work together. I was working the preliminary fight with him, and he ended up with a cut. And I was already learning to be a cut man. And I saw what guys did by getting tape and cutting little strips and making butterfly.

So knowing what I know now, the cut was nothing. But I butterfled it and he says, I don't have to go to the hospital. You save me stitches. I'm going to call you Stitch. So I don't think Dave Rooney, last thing I heard about Dave is he moved to Alaska as a fisherman, one of these boats out there.

I don't think he knows how much he changed my whole life. It's funny because they're filming a documentary outside of my book, on my life based on the book. Well, they interviewed Michael B. Jordan, right? So they sent me one of the clips and Michael, I'm wrapping his hands. and there's my third movie with him. And I'm wrapping his hands and I say, Michael, do you know my real name?

He said, let's Stitch. I said, no, no, no. Do you know my real name? He says, I don't. And he yells out, hey, anybody knows Stitch's real name? People don't know my name. You know, it's Jacob, for those that don't know. Yeah.

I mean, when you were called that, called Stitch, like how quickly did you embrace? Like, did you spread? Or did you start introducing yourself, business cards? Like, how did you? Yeah, yeah, I always included, you know, one of the things I, I don't,

I consider myself a savant in marketing. Of course, you got a, you know, that name was just ideal. But it got to the point now where it's just stitched around instead of Jacob Stichdard. My business card just says Jacob Stichdard. You know, so yeah, it's a mindblower. Everywhere I go, I mean, coming back from Japan, you know, you know you travel a lot when customs, hey, Stitch, what's up? And the guys at TSA, guys are saying, hey, man, just out of the blue.

Hey, man, I'm still mad that the U.S.C. let you go. I mean, it's crazy. So that's part of your story, too, even the UFC. I mean, what happened there? And, you know, do you still feel a certain way about it to this day? Yeah, you know, I, Dana, I knew Dana before the UFC. And thank God when they bought the UFC, I was doing a K-1 at the Belagio. And he asked for my card and called me the next day and says, we bought the UFC,

which I'd like to be a cut man. Of course, great opportunity. So Leon Tabs and myself. And so I became kind of the primary. cut man for these guys wrapping hands and what have you not and and I worked on sponsors we worked on sponsors fighters and me being in marketing watches I got ton of watches because my hands are always on TV and so I was making my I need the UFC to make my money on sponsors right well same with the fighters fighters making

50 100 grand a fighter free money so they go to the Reebok deal and they take sponsors away from everybody with no options right so they met all the cut man together they brought us in and told us the same thing and every time I got a sponsor I tried to negotiate for you for you the cut man the other cut man and you know not as much as me but something to something and the guy I tried to negotiate for at least an increase in pay and and they said not you know we ain't got it so I did an interview with John Nash from bloody elbow.com never met him he says would you be interested in doing an

interview of the Reebok deal affected the cut man well I grew up as a farmer I told you, right? My parents fought for the rights with Caesar Chavez, and I thought, man, if I don't speak up, you know, that's not my nature. And so the article is very politically correct. I know, because I were in corporate America, right? But this shit went viral. And my wife and I are at Costco, and I get a call from my friends and Mark Ratner, one of them, and they ask if I could talk, and I said, well, give me an hour. So I get home and the only thing Mark Ratner said is because of the interview you did about Reebok, the UFC's not going to use you no more. So, got a little slap in the face.

And I know Mark felt bad saying it, you know, because we're friends. But I said, all right, Mark, you do me in favor. You tell Dane, I said, he ain't got no balls that he should have called me personally, right? So I'm getting tons of messages, Chris. First one I respond to, I said, want you to let you know that you're the first of us, want to let you know that the UFC let me go for speaking out about the Reebok deal. Now I got to find another job. That went viral.

I did like 57 interviews that week. Had camera crews coming in my house. It's the biggest thing in MMA. And then the dust is settling and I'm getting means and support. Job offers everywhere. Made me cry. It was that bad. It was that energy field.

And I get the dust is settling a couple weeks later. USC has their first big fight on Fox TV. And they're asking Dana, what about Stitcher around? Is he ever coming back? Nah, Stitcher and never be back and this and that. And then he blows it at the end and says, probably the stupidest comment he ever made in his life. and I were never friends, bro, that still blows up in his face.

You know, so I did the right thing. You know, I'm glad, and life has been good. No regrets about doing that interview and everything that came from it? Not once. In fact, I'm proud of myself. There was one Brazilian coach when we were doing top-rank fights at the bubble. Luis Dutia, I haven't seen him in eight years since the UFC let me go. And during lunch, he comes up to me.

He says, Steech, all the competents have gone throughout the whole world, still do. Wesley Snipes, hey, man, USC did you wrong. But this one here, he comes up to me and says, Steach, we the coaches, the fighters, we thank you for speaking up because we couldn't. Bro, I could die with that quote. It's part of the legacy. That I did what I had to do, you know, and so it's been good. So you mentioned you get calls, you never ask for jobs. What is your schedule like every year?

Well, let me see. I got to go. It's 45 shows a year easy. Yeah. You know, I just did, I was in Oklahoma Saturday, Sunday morning. I had a 3 o'clock lobby call to go to Tokyo. I get there Monday. I do the fight with Robessie Ramirez that defended his title on Tuesday, and I got home yesterday,

and I'm here talking to you, and I got a show tomorrow with Top Rank. And then Sunday, I go to Dallas. I'm working with Nate Deals for, since Jake Paul. And the week after that, I'll be in Phoenix with Top Rank. and then the week after that, I think in Tulsa, I got stuff up until September 22nd. So you live out of a backpack in a lot of ways? As short as I can.

You know, in the States, I'll leave Thursday, get there, you know, in time for the way ends and the fight Saturday and then go home. And then the rest of my time, I spend with my family. But, you know, my wife and family have all been supportive because, you know, I'm following my dreams and I had to bring them with me. How much prep do you do for, whatever fighter you're working with. I mean, we see, like, historically, we see guys have cuts.

Some guys don't have cuts. Some guys cut in certain areas. How much research do you do on the guys you work for? Research I don't. You know, cuts to cut is going to happen. I always prepare for a worst case scenario, though, right? So, good question. So every time, even though I know the answer, I go through all my supplies.

I always have enough gauze and tape for five fighters, even though I'm working with one, right? I always have enough supplies for five fighters. I make sure I have my medicine, my Vaseline, my sandwich bags for the ice packs. I make sure all that is in line, and I always iron my outfits just because I got, you know, some guys do crazy things. I always iron myself. But that's the preparation. And when I sit down with these young fighters, I'll say, look, my whole job, I'll tell the coach and the team,

just give me the right side, give me their face, and you guys do everything else. and I tell that young kid, you know, psychology is a big thing is that I want you to walk out as handsome as you walk in, you know. Vladimir Clitschko, God, I wish I can. I, when he fought Anthony Joshua, I got to tell you this story. I didn't see him until Friday at the way ends because my daughter, Carly just got married in Crete. So I got there Thursday night. And I see him, and we're talking me and him in Italy about the game plan, and finally at the end, I put my hand on his shoulder. I said, Vladimir, don't worry about nothing tomorrow. I'm going to take care of you like you're my son. And I leave because I know they can't sleep at nights, right? Chris, in front of

90,000 crazy brits, which is like 150,000 somewhere else, right? I'm putting the final Vaseline on him before Michael Buffer does the announcements and I'm six inches away from him. He says, you could call me son. Bro, that gave me chills. I knew I got into him and, and yeah, he called me Daddy, daddy. But then I asked him months later. I saw him in Germany. And I said, Vladimir. That moment.

Why? He says, Stitch, there's very few people I trust in my life. You are one of them. Vitaly, as I'm saying goodbye to him. He puts his hand on my shoulder, and I got a great picture of it. He says, Steach, you've been with us for so many years. I love you. You are my brother.

You are always welcome to my house. It's insane, huh? I got to let you listen to this message that Vladimir sent me. When I did the Creed movie, Michael always used me an advisor, and he says, who should give away the WBC belt? So I explained to him, Jose Suleiman, and all that. So I saw Mauricio when Earl Spence fought Ugas. And I gave him the story, he says, well, let's take a picture and let's send it to the brothers, right?

And Vladimir responded with this. I want to let you listen to it. It just made me cry, bro. Watch. And especially Steech, with whom I spent so much time talking and he actually saved my career on a lot of different stages. If Stitch wouldn't be in my corner, I would not make the record of 12 years being a champion. So that's so great to see you both. and Stitch is the man.

That's great. Insane. Insane. Keep that forever. Oh, come on, man. That's, you know, and to do it because they're right in the heat of the battle, right? For him to, for me to have taken them out of that moment of war into a moment of pleasure, that meant everything to me. I got chills and every time I let somebody hear it, I get chills.

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Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

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When a fight gets stopped because of a cut, how much does that bother you? Well, there's been times when I've suggested it. You know, I understand. For performance-wise, no, not at all. You know, for the fighter, you know, not too much. I'm going to say because if a fight is stopped, if it stopped properly, right, then I could understand that because we've got to protect these fighters and they could always come back for another day. If the fight is stopped for no apparent reason, that's a little bit of a different story. But it doesn't fall on my hands as much anymore because people know my credibility.

So if they're going to stop a fight, they're going to have to cover their bases pretty good. You know, like, well, even the referee in the fights I did in Oklahoma, this kid is getting beat up. And as a referee, Mark Dowson comes towards to talk to him. He looks at me and I kind of give him a little nod. of no. And he talked to the guy said, look, man, do you want to continue? The guy said nothing. He stopped the fight. But it's, you know, protecting these guys.

When you think back at all the fights you've done, you mentioned Marquez early on. What was the hardest cut that you, how did you've had to work to keep a cut closed? Yeah, this one, this is an MMA, Jay Haran, Jonathan Goulet from Canada. Jay Haran

took a knee from Jonathan Goulet. You know that big vein we have right between the well he popped that vein and that's when you do that that's you're not going to stop it right there I've never seen so much blood in my life in a fight it was so much blood that made me nauseated right and when the doctor came and asked me what I thought is that no problem I could stop it right I'm cleaning them up and all that well I put the final mixture of vaseline with the dranniclorite as a topical it bled right through it just like a busted dine so but yeah so that one right there You know, was kind of tough to work with.

And he lost, but that mat is at Randik Gator's gym right now. So that was pretty bad. Were you working with Vittalini for the Lennox-Lewis fight? No, but Vittalie told me, he goes, Stiche, if you would have been with me, I would have won that fight. Do you think you could have closed that? That was the tough thing? Well, you know, no, yeah, the one on top, yes, control it. But the one that was the problem was the one in the mouth.

See, people forget about that. That one, he bled so much that you start, the Julio Caesar child, Maldry Taylor's scenario, where you get all this blood goes into your throat. That one was bad. But, yeah, I've worked on those cuts plenty of times. When you go into a fight, what's the area that is your biggest challenge? Like if a guy gets cut, what part of the face the guy gets cut him is like,

man, I'm going to have to do my work on this one. Right here from my eyebrows? Yeah, right there. But that vein in the middle, you know, you don't want to pop that one. You know, and that's a good question, because when you have multiple cuts, then you've got to go with the priorities. The ones on the cheekbone, on the nose, those are the last priorities. The one on the nose, I did when Terrence Crawford fought,

where was a guy from Australia, when he fought him in Vegas, I came in as a Jeff Horn. Jeff Horn, as an analyst for ESPN. And Jeff Horn got a cut on his nose. I said, man, those type of cuts, you can't stop because there's nothing but cartilage there. I said, that's what we say, it's better you working on it than me. So you don't want those kind of cuts. They make a cut man look bad.

Yeah. It's like any other kind of medicine. I'm sure the technology changes over the years. There are new tricks to the trade. I mean, how much have you evolved as a cut man since the beginning? Yeah, I've been through every scenario. You know, I've been through broken bones. I've been through.

But the stuff you use. Does that change much? Yeah. It's the, everything is basically. on the athletic commission. Number one, there's three items that are authorized before now here in Nevada, pretty much everywhere, adrenaline chloride 1-1-1,000 vessel constricted. That's number one. Avetine and thrombin are coagulants. And now I introduced a gospad called quick aid that's 100% natural and doesn't require prescription. And what it does, you put it on the cut and it

dehydrates it. All these companies always send me stuff to try. And that one works the best. And, you know, to get a prescription for the medications we use is almost impossible and they're expensive. Bottle of adrenaline and that was like 300 bucks. This, this Gospad, quick aid, and you get that a Cutman for Hire Supplies.com, Warrameters, by the way. He does. He has it. That's, everybody should have it because it doesn't require skills.

All you do is put it on the cut and leave it there for the duration of the round and it will dry up that blood. And those are the, other than that, there's not a lot of new science to it. that. Everything's based on application. Literally everything is based on how you do it and when you do it and saving seconds. You know, and you look at fights. I always study fights and, you know, if you could get to the fighter within seven, eight seconds, that's good because you get basically have 40 minutes, 40 seconds, 45 seconds,

maybe 50, right? And like say, if a fighter's cut and the bell rings and he's at the other side of the ring, I'll go meet him over there and I'll be applying pressures I take him to his corner and set him down. So you kind of, you're working on seconds. When you go into a fight, do you hope to be busy or not busy? Bernardo asked me on the ESPN fights, Camposa's got cut. I said, what do you think? That's a piece of cake.

I love this stuff. You know, I'm waiting for cuts. You know, I don't mind, I don't mind the anticipation. But just to work, and I saw the tapes because I was in Tokyo, I saw them this morning. And, you know, I know people look at the applications. The applications that I applied were applications that work at its highest level. So when you think back at all the years you've been doing it, what are your favorite memories of this job? God, I've got tons, bro.

We could sit here for hours, and I could tell you stories with just about every fighter I've worked with. But working with the cliticals was, like, tremendous. That's a great experience. In December the 12th, 1992, Vitelli says, I said 91, he says 92, when the Soviet Union first, broke. We took a team of professional boxers and kickboxers to Kiev, Ukraine to fight them. And I had a Mark Longo, a kickboxer at that time. That was a great journey, you know, and then not to find out that I'm working. I started working with them when they started training in Vegas, and then they did Oceans 11 with Lennox Lewis when the casino were.

Well, I was Vladimir's cut man in the movie, right? And from there, I see Amanda Stewart at an HBO fight. He's walking into the arena. and I'm watching people walk in and he looks at me and says, Stitch, I want to talk to you about Vladimir rubbing his eyebrow and I look at my buddy Steve and said, did you see what I saw? Well, the next day he called me, says, Vladimir wanted the guy that was a cut man in the movie to be his cut man for the fights and that was me. You know, so that's how we got started on that. Working with Emmanuel Stewart was unbelievable.

You know, I unbelievable just to say I did eight years with him in the trenches with not only him but Jonathan Banks and other fighters that he had. You know, you're just a master what he did. Who are the craziest guys you've worked with? None, actually, you know what? Did you get to work with Tyson? No, I didn't. No, I did patch for Mike.

So I'll tell you this story, though. So I tell you, so Mike Tyson had just, I think he had just left Teddy Atlas and Panama Lewis was with him. So I used to do patch because I was a trainer. When I went to Vegas, I didn't come to be a trainer, because I had an 8 to 5 job with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company. So I came as a cut man, but I could do pads, and I was very, very good at that. Panama Lewis brought me in to do pads for Sulton and Tumur, Bragamov, the Russian guys.

And, you know, so Johnny Tapia did pass for him and all these guys. And so Panama called me to do pads with Mike. And I would have been glad just to do one day at work. I did two weeks of work with him. And that was good. This guy took a picture of us. And that some bitch wanted to sell to me for 50 bucks. Man, I tell you, knowing now.

But anyway, I did that. So anyway, this one guy goes and tells Mike that blacks out of work with blacks and Mexicans out of work with Mexicans. And I approached him in front of Panama. I'm chewing them out big time. Panama being as loud as he is, didn't say it worked. So that was a pleasure. So I got to do two weeks to work with Black.

and, you know, I send you a piece on this film that I did 23 years ago, bro. It blows my mind. We were going to do a video. Well, I did an interview on how I wanted to do videos. And they're wrapping hands, simple things, you know, educate. With this young kid, John Barton House had just graduated from the American Film Institute, 23-year-old kid, contacted me and said, hey, man, I'll be glad to help you. That was during the weekend when David Tewas fought Lennox Lewis.

Bro, I interviewed so many people on the ills of boxing and we put a little film together called Boxer's Nightmare. Well, we never did nothing with it, right? Well, he OD'd about four months ago on Fetinaw and Meth and they lived in Denver. And I hadn't seen this film in that, but I looked at it and I'm thinking, oh shit, man, everybody here's Hall of Famers. And every issue that pertains to boxing, we addressed it with simple solutions. And I looked at it and I thought, wow, man, now it affects MMA. Dementia pejoristica, contracts, good timing, everything. Everything that is hurting boxing now is now spilling over into MMA.

And, you know, I've been gone from MMA for eight years. And then those guys didn't have dementia, punched drunks and slurred speech and all that. The guy, fast forward, guys I run into, I could see the pattern of change. You know, I just spent Joey Torres. Do you remember Joey Torres? He's a young. He's a young guy that killed his manager and spent 40 years in prison. Well, he picked me up at the airport yesterday.

We spent time together, and his life that he went through was insane. You know, and I'm thinking, wow, man, just a lot of crazy things. You think you'll ever retire from this job? No, you know, it's in getting up and down the ring, people ask me about that. it's I'll stop that when the mechanic starts slowing down it's not fair to you know but no I'll continue on the health and safety education I'll take the smart way of working on this type of stuff and uh no I'm gonna die in this ring though you know might die in my bed but it's it's that's my ring you know it's not even a job picking tomatoes picking peaches picking figs picking cotton you know all that was a job

that's real work this is a piece of cake yeah it's a pleasure every time I look I thank God it blows my mind, you know, to do the things that I'm doing and at what level I'm doing at. It's crazy. And people stop me all over the world. You know, I'm on the plane coming back from Tokyo and, hey, man, I saw that they showing Creed 3 on the movie in the plane. Hey, man, you're that guy, huh? They're coming up to me or not. It blows my mind. Oh, if you, whenever you want to stop doing cuts, you can just stay in the movies and keep doing that over and over. You know, I've been in seven movies, bro, and I've never, I'm not even an actor. And I've gotten, I mean, I did Woody Harrelson, Antonio Banderas, played to the bone, my first one.

right i was i was i wanted to be with antonio banderas and my chuck boddak got in front of me so i ended up with woody harrison right but in the movie played played to the bone woody gets cut and and i you got the best cut man in the business and chuck saying damn man you got the cut man you know i did that and you know i mean with uh three with rocky i did baboa and with antonio tarver and creed one two three i did um uh here comes the boom with kevin james sam a Henry Winkler, MMA movie. Yeah, it blows my mind. I just got a pension plan from SAG.

Really? I didn't even know I had it coming. That tells you you've made it, man. They sent me a check. I didn't know nothing about that. Every time they asked me to be a SAG member, I said, no, no, I'm not an actor. I'm not an actor.

But in Creed 2, the production paid for it. I said, no, man, you're an actor. You know, had my own trailer and all that. So, yeah, it's, I told you, it's a black mindblower. I'm always that little Chicano growing up as a farmer. You know, just. Shit happens. No question.

Stitch, I love it. I'm glad we got the chance to catch up. I appreciate your time. I love hearing these stories. I could hear a million more. I appreciate you taking this time. Man, it's a pleasure. Thank you.

You know, when I told my wife, Chris Mannix call me. And she's in Mexico, right? I got an interview with Chris Maddox. That's big time. See, that's stuff like this. Hey, it blows my mind. Hey, blows me. I love hearing this stuff, man.

But, you know, I tell people, you know, it had to happen to somebody. I just happen to be that somebody. It's the way I look at it. I love it, man. Well, good luck at these upcoming fights. Thank you. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontans and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the

Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.