The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jake Paul

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Chris joined by Corey Erdman to dive into Devin Haney's performance and if it was the best we've seen from Haney (10:45), Bam Rodriguez vs. Sunny Edwards, and the big weekend for Jake Paul.Later, Jake Paul himself stops by to talk about his upcoming fight, will we ever see him fight KSI, and we look into the mind of Jake Paul the promoter (59:15). #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Or somebody, punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance.

Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the volume sports. podcast network. We're to welcome in everybody that's listening on the podcast feed. If you are not a subscriber, get over there. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, subscribe, follow. Make sure you get this pod in your feed every single week. So we've got a lot to talk about. And it feels like I'm saying that a lot. And I probably have been saying that a lot over the last few weeks because it's been a busy stretch in boxing. A couple of weeks ago, we had the return of Ryan Garcia last weekend. And

we had Devin Haney putting on an absolute masterclass against Regis Progray. This weekend, we've got three fight cards to talk about. You've got the final Showtime card taking place in Minnesota. That's going to be headlined by David Morel. On Friday, Jake Paul makes his return. It's been a few months since Jake beat Nate Diaz. He is back on Friday night taking on Andre August. That's a fight you could watch live on DeZone.

Jake's going to join me a little bit later in the show. And I get into a lot of things with Jake, from the decision to take on a relatively unknown commodity in Andre August to his ongoing feud with KSI. Will we ever see Jake Paul and KSI in the ring together? Plus, ask him to what his promoter had on for a minute and tell me what is going on with the Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano stuff. I mean, it was like 10 months ago where we were talking about Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano signed seal delivered for a rematch in Ireland. Katie Taylor has fought a couple of times since then. Amanda Serrano has fought a couple of times since then. There doesn't seem to be any momentum for a Taylor Serrano rematch.

I get into it with Jake Paul later in the show. Also this weekend, Sunny Edwards, Bam Rodriguez, Flyweight unification fight in Glendale, Arizona. I'm headed down to Arizona later this week to call that fight for DeZona. I'm excited about it. I'm ready for it. This is the best against the best. This is the best guy, I think. think in 112 and has been that way for a couple of years now in Sunny Edwards.

And you've got Bam Rodriguez, a two-division world title holder, beat some legends up at 115 pounds, came down, won a title in his last fight at 112. I think this is going to be a terrific matchup. It is a great clash of styles with Bam Rodriguez, the boxer puncher, Sunny Edwards, the more classic boxer. I think it's going to be great. That's a fight that's going to take place in Glendale on Saturday. Corey Erdman, senior boxing writer over at boxing scene.com.

He is going to join me to talk about all that. From the sunny bam fight to Jake Paul, and we're going to get into what we saw last weekend from Devin Haney because this was, I used the word masterful because that's exactly what it was. All three scorecards, 120, 107. How often do you see all three judges agree on that type of scorecard? That's how brilliant the performance by Devin Haney was. And Rich's Progray coming in was no slouch.

I thought Regis Progray was the number one guy in the 140 pound division coming into that fight based on all the accomplished at 140. And Devin Haney made him look amateurish in that fight. Progray landed 36 punches. That is a copy box record for the fewest punches thrown in a 12 round fight. Sky's the limit for Devon Haney. Get into all that and much more with Corey Erdman. Before we get into that, one thing I want to. to just weigh in on because it caught my eye when I was doing prep for this show.

Malik Scott is the trainer for Deonté Wilder, and he's a really good boxing mind. I like Malik. He's done some good things with Wilder. He worked well with Zerdo Ramirez for Zerto's last fight against Joe Smith. But Malik Scott has this habit of portraying Deonté Wilder as this lethal weapon. And look, he is. He's the biggest puncher in boxing today, one of the biggest heavyweight punchers of all time, an absolute canon for a right hand. But Malik Scott in an interview recently said something to the effect that he hopes that Joseph Parker's corner is looking out for him because Deonté Wilder is a dangerous man and bad things can happen in a boxing ring if your corner is not looking out for you. And when I'm reading that, I'm just kind of over all this. I'm

Over Deontay Wilder, you know, threatening to kill people in the ring, saying things in the past, like I want to catch a body. I'm over Malik Scott saying that Joseph Parker's team needs to look out for him. I mean, keep that same energy the other way. I mean, it's kind of ironic that Malik Scott, the trainer for Deonti Wilder, is telling Joseph Parker's corner to look out for him. after Deontay Wilder fired Mark Breeland from his corner for looking out for him. So I find that to be pretty ironic.

And look, Deontay Wilder is dangerous. The most likely outcome of Wilder against Parker is Deontay Wilder wins by knockout. But let's not dismiss Joseph Parker as this kind of, you know, stumble bum getting in the ring with Walth. This is a former heavyweight champion, a guy that went 12 rounds with a guy that went 12 rounds with Anthony Joshua. Did get knocked out by Joe Joyce, but Joe Joyce, the pressure Joe Joyce applied in that fight

was the difference maker against Joseph Parker. Look, I do agree with the general sentiment that corners should look out for their fighters. But this idea that, like, Joseph Parker is completely overmatched, it's ridiculous. And look, Joseph Parker's also got a little bit of power.

And if he winds up carving up Deonti Wilder in this fight, which could happen. Wilder's only fought one round in the last two years. He's getting up there in age. And again, Joseph Parker is a pretty good fighter. I hope that keep that same energy on the other side if it turns out to go that direction.

I just had to say something about that because it just was bothering me. When I read all this stuff about, you know, the danger of fighting a Deonté while they're boxing is a dangerous business in general. And the reality is the bad things that happen in boxing often happen, not as a result of one punch, but an accumulation of punches. When you look at the guys that have had tragic outcomes in the ring, very rarely is it because

of one shot. Usually it's, you know, 11 rounds of punishment that leads to some long-term damage. So, look, it's a good fight. We're going to talk more about it next week. We're going to talk about that entire day of reckoning card in Saudi Arabia next week. But I just had to get that off my chest. I'm just getting exhausted by this idea that Deonte Wilder is a lethal weapon and nobody should get in the ring with her. And if you do, you better be careful about the outcome.

All right. Let's move on. Corey Ardman, senior writer, boxing scene.com. He joins me. He does a great job writing about the sport for boxing scene, broadcasting for DeZone, ESPN Plus. And Corey, before we get into all that's going on this upcoming weekend, Jake Paul, Sonny Edwards, Bam Rodriguez, among others. We got to talk about what we saw last weekend because, you know, I went into that

Devin Haney Regis Progray fight believing that like a 9-3 scorecard was probably the most likely outcome. Devin Haney was, you know, the overwhelming betting favor to win that fight by decision. I did hold out some hope that, or hope might be the wrong word, but some belief that Regis Progray would, you know, make it interesting at some point in the fight.

The same way maybe that Jorge Linaris made an interesting, against Devin Haney at some point during that fight. And I did certainly believe that Progrid would win some rounds because he's legit 140 pounder. Devin was going up to 140 for the first time. Regis didn't look great in his last fight, but two fights before that, he beat down Jose de Peda. If you had told me this fight was going to end

120107 on all three scorecards, I just wouldn't have believed it. I just didn't think there was that big a gap between Devin Haney and Regis' program, but there was and then some. So give me your thoughts on what you saw last Saturday between Haney and Progrey. Yeah, I thought it was an absolute masterpiece from Devon Haney.

And, you know, I would never have predicted that this was going to be 120107, but I did think that there were always going to be big stylistic challenges for Regis Progrey. I think that Progrey's method of offense is generally to try to slip something to get to the inside. And when you have a fighter who's as disciplined as Devin Haney is, and who has as accurate as a jab as Haney does, I always thought that there was going to be some extreme difficulty for Haney. But I did think that at some point, just through sheer attrition, that Progray was eventually going to get in there.

And I don't know that one time Progray was able to work on the inside for even an instant. And when you look at those punch totals at the end of the fight, at 36 landed punches, I mean, that's, and none of those punches really were of consequence. They just happened to touch Devin Haney at some point. But, I mean, this was a thorough undressing of a top caliber fighter, of a guy that had an argument to be the top 140 pounder in the world, wherever you want to rank him, you know, somewhere from 1 to 3. This is one of the best in the world at 140,

and has proven that he has been for a long time. And Haney just didn't have any trouble with him whatsoever. And also didn't do anything silly to a lot. allow Pro Gray to get into this fight, which really would have been his only chance, which is if Haney at some point decided, okay, I'm going to stand in trade just for fun, he didn't do any of that. And it worked to his favor. I mean, the complete dominance, I think, was more valuable than, say, him staying in there and scoring another knockdown, because short of a knockout, the thorough domination that he showed in this fight, I think, is, that's more impressive than

anything that he could have done short of knocking Pro Gray clean out. Yeah, look, you got to give his father Bill Haney a lot of credit for the game plan too. I mean, Devin's had some absolutely fantastic game plans in recent years. You know, the two fights against George Cambosis, he kept Cambosis on the end of that jab, beat him that way. Against Lomachenko, ghost the body over and over again. Beat him that way. This fight against Progrey, look, there wasn't a lot of complicated strategy, I thought,

involved it. It was simply moved to Pro Gray's right to stay away from his left. And he was able to do that the entirety of that fight. Of those 36 punches, I don't think a single one was our left hand of any consequence. They were all just kind of touch stuff, the kind of stuff that Devin Haney, like, you know, as he said in the post-fight interview, kind of allowed through so he could get Prograte to maybe engage and fall into some traps. It was masterful. And look, the strength.

of Devin Haney, I thought, was on display at this weight class. He knocked Pro Gray down in the third round. A couple of times in the second half of the fight, he had him wobbled. I'm sure he was tempted to go in there and go for the proverbial kill. But, you know, Haney, you know, was disciplined there, knew that Progray's only chance of getting to him was to turn it into kind of a firefight, turn into a street fight. And he stayed away from. He was disciplined. He was sharp.

Look, I had Regis as the top guy at 140 going into that fight. That was largely because the body of work, right? He's a two-time champion in that weight class, bet on that division a long time. And for Devin Haney to go out there and just beat down a guy like that in the way that he did, it was remarkable. It really was remarkable to see. Did it tell you anything else about Haney and kind of what he,

how he's improved as a fighter, you know, over the last couple of fights? Yeah, I mean, I think that he learned some important lessons from his past. And I think that he alluded to it. I think he might have even said it to you, Chris, in the ring afterwards, that he learned from that Jorge Lanars fight, you know, not to do anything silly just because you think that you can. You know, and that was the same type of fight. Maybe it wasn't as thorough a domination as this one.

But this is a fight, that was a fight that Haney had in complete control, gets rocked once. And then suddenly it's a big question mark all the way down to the final bell. But I think that he's shown that he, is as disciplined a fighter inside the ring as there is in the sport right now in terms of top level guys. And that

level of discipline and his gifts, the reach, the length, the subtle footwork, the ability to always stay in punching range without running, that's going to be a really, really difficult puzzle for a lot of

fighters to solve. And we've seen some brilliant tactical fighters just not have all the answers or any answers in some case for Devin Haney throughout his career. I will say that there was some subtlety to Haney's game plan as well. I think that he and Bill kind of alluded to it in some of their interviews after the fight. The one thing they noticed was the particular rhythm that Progrey has and when he leans to either side.

And Progrey just wasn't able to clue in to the fact that Haney had that timed. So yes, it was negating the left hand that was part of it, but there was some intricacy to it there. And I think that we saw it against Lomachenko, too, that they saw one particular weakness that they could target over and over again, which is that Lomachenko is hitable to the body. And they honed in on that against Progray. They see which way is this guy moving, and they can time that a little bit. And that is, I think there's a commitment to game plan that isn't just, oh, here's an aggressive guy. Our game plan is move. Here's a guy that moves back. We're going to go and apply pressure. There's some very finite intricacy that the hand

And thenies and all of the other people that they dabble with and employ from time to time, you know, there's a studious nature to how they prepare for fights that I think is on a different level. Yeah. And it's different than how some top guys prepare for fights. Some top guys, they kind of say, I'm going to do me and what I do is better than what you do. And for some top guys, that works. The Hanies, while they do have unflinching belief in Devon's ability. they do design specific game plans for the opponents that they are going up against. And they do study the minute details. Like Devin told us in the fighter meetings this past week that one of the reasons he was hit by as many left hands as he got hit by Lomachenko was because he was trying to veer towards his left hand.

And when he said that, I kind of scratched my head. It was like, well, what do you mean you're trying to get hit by left hands from the left-handed fighter? He said, no, no, no. Vasil Lomachenko is a right-handed guy. He said, we noticed when he was signing autographs that he did it with his right hand. So we designed a game plan to move towards his left. Now, sometimes guys say stuff like that and you don't really believe it. With the haines, I'm starting to believe some of this stuff because of how detailed they are with their preparation. And when he was preparing for Progrey, you know, when we're in that fighter meeting,

I asked him, like, you know, that herky jerky style that Regis has. is that going to be a potential challenge for you? How do you deal with that? He kind of smiled at me. He goes, I like it. I like that style. And to your point, it's probably why. He probably knew it wasn't a random herky jerky style.

There was some symmetry to it. There was a pattern to it that he could ultimately time. Because you saw Regis, and like by the third round when he got knocked down, there was no movement to him. He was a stationary target. He was just kind of moving forward. His team kept telling him, go to the right. His team kept telling him move more, get more head movement.

but Regis was just beaten. He was beaten in the first half of the fight, and there was no really no coming back from it. So as brilliant as Devin is as a boxer, his preparation is second to none. His game plans are second to none right now. They really are elite at that part of the game. Yeah, and I want to make one more point on that too, and it's something that I've found really fascinating about Haney, and I wrote about this after the Lanara's fight,

which is that he is fairly egoless in this regard. He doesn't care where the information that he's getting comes from. He will go to his opponent after the fight and ask them, you know, hey, what did you think of my power? What did I do here? You know, when I did this, what did you think? There was a scene that went out. The power there's ego to. The power he does want to be a power puncher on some level.

And believe me, I would bet that the. the most gratifying part of beating Progray for Hayne was probably knocking him down and probably hurting him through the course of that fight. Sure, yeah, there's ego involved there. But he's still trying to get information and he wants, and he's willing to ask his opponents and get honest answers from them. There was that scene that was captured that kind of floated around social media of him talking to Lanarez after the fight and asking him questions,

knowing that there's just a little bit for him to learn after the fight. And I noticed, Chris, even in your interview with him in the ring, Devin said, it was kind of in passing. It was kind of in the middle of a sentence. He said, I can't wait to talk to him after the fight. And so that registered with me and said to me, like, I bet that Devin went into Regis's, into his locker room. He was trying to extract a little bit something. Like, he is always trying to learn something. And that is, that is an attribute that I don't always say.

I mean, you know, fighters learn in very different ways, but I haven't seen a fighter learn quite like this before and all the fighters that I've been around over my years. So I think Devin right now is top five pound for pound. I think the only guys that have a case to be ranked ahead of him are Terrence Crawford, Newe in a way, Canelo Alvarez and Olegzetter Usoc. I think those four guys, that's it.

Devin, to me, is at worst fifth on the pound for pound rankings. But more than that, if you zoom out a little bit, you have to start looking at Devin Haney as being on kind of a Mayweatherian path, right? Because look, he's 25 years old. And if you look at his accomplishments, they line up, they track with a lot of the accomplishments that Floyd Mayweather had at age 25. He has 31 wins at age 25. Floyd Mayweather at 25 had 28.

He has won now five world titles. Floyd Mayweather only had one at that point. he has been in, I think, 10 world title fights. If you include the interim title, he won against Zara Abdalayiv a couple of years ago. Mayweather at that point had been in 11. He's headline a couple of paper views. Mayweather, his first paper review wasn't until a little bit later when he fought Arturo Gotti. And look, he's now officially a draw, right?

Because he did 14,400 with Lomachenko at the, was a T-Mobile, or MGM Graham Graham Garden Arena earlier in the year. This fight sold out 16,000. This is a real sellout too. This wasn't like here's 16,000 people in the stands and 8,000 them paid for their tickets. This was 16,000 paying customers that came through the Chase Center to watch Devin Haney fight.

So look, it's almost sacrilegious to some people to say that Devin Haney is on the same path as Floyd Mayble. Do even make the comparison some people hate? But I don't know how you dispute it, Corey. got the talent. This guy's showcases of power. This guy is chasing world titles and legacy. And this guy is starting to become a draw. So when I look at Devin Haney, I see the air to Mayweather in many ways. Yeah. And, you know, people think of it as blasphemous. You know, I'm sure that people were angry that, you know, there was even the graphic on the broadcast, you

know, that you guys put together. Numbers speak for themselves. Well, yeah. And number one, you know, the accomplishments are close enough that it's fair to make that comparison, but also, I mean, who else do you want to compare people to? I mean, Mayweather is kind of that North Star in terms of recent athletes, and that's who people are striving to be. But also, I would say that, yes, it seems blasphemous because Mayweather reached these, like, galactical levels, and it's impossible, really, to say, like, if you ask me, will anyone, like, presently boxing right now reach Floyd Mayweather's levels in terms of popularity or money, I would say no. And I would be pretty competent in saying that, but that's no slight to any of those fighters. But in terms of guys

who could come close, or who would be this generation's version of it, Devin Haney would seem to be one of those acceptable answers. And I would also say that, let's say Floyd, you transplant Floyd in the fighters that he's fighting and you put him in this era at the same time as Devin Haney, it would feel like it would be fair to make those comparisons if he were contemporary. It's a lot harder because in hindsight, we see the heights that Floyd reached. We can properly contextualize the opponents that he beat at the time. By that point, he had beaten two guys who went on to the Hall of Fame. So, of course, it looks great.

But, you know, fast forward 20 years. And let's take even Devin's career to this point. He will have beaten Vasily Lomachenko, who's probably going to the Hall of Fame. Jorge Linares, who, depending on when he gets on the ballot, he's going to have that argument too, and then we'll see what else he does before the end of the year. But I think the comparison is fair because Devin is one of boxing's draws right now. You can put him in different markets and he will draw. And he will be, I foresee longevity, which is the key to this.

It's a style that he has that is something that he can replicate of fight after fight. He's adaptable. and the level of popularity and the way that he's conducted himself, the way that he and Bill tap into the culture outside of boxing, through fashion, through music, it pretends longevity in terms of popularity as well. So, like, will Devin match all of Floyd's accomplishments

and make the same amount of money? Like, probably not. But in terms of this generation, this batch of fighters, I think he has the case to be, as close as we're going to get. Yeah. You would need a perfect storm of events to happen to match or exceed Floyd Mayweather's revenue in the ring because you would need a crossover fight like Floyd had with

Connor McCracker. You would need a mega fight like Floyd had with Mandy Pacquo. Those things, they're not there right now for Devin Haney. But again, just 25. And what he's done at 25 is right parallel to along the same track of what Floyd Mayweather's done at this point. So I think the comparison is fair. Go ahead. I was going to just one more point on that.

One thing to remember is that Devin and Bill, they have done this all themselves. Devin's early fights were on YouTube with someone in Haney's Camp shooting themselves on an iPhone and posting it to YouTube and Devin wasn't getting paid. Floyd Mayweather was in the Olympics. He was fighting on network television from 17 onwards and then had the mechanisms of HBO, which with all due respect to the network that we work for right now, there was a foothold that HBO had on the culture, and it was just appointment viewing because there were fewer options,

and Floyd benefited from that and everything that came from it. Devin had to do it himself and is now in a very different time and is still reaching the heights that he's at right now. And I think that that is an important point to make, and it's something that they need to be commended for as well. Well, I think he's also creating a blueprint that other young, fighters should follow in the modern age because network TV isn't what it used to be, because HBO isn't out there is the only game in town. There has to be different avenues to take.

And the avenue that Devin Haney took was he effectively bet on himself. It wasn't that he couldn't sign with a promoter straight out of the amateur ranks. He just didn't want to. He didn't like the offers, didn't want to tie himself to any kind of long-term deal. So he chose to go to Mexico, which does come with risk. I mean, you don't know who you're fighting in Mexico. And we all know all the things we just said about the allegations of a loss, all those rumors. The reality is you could be taking on a guy whose record says he's like 5, 3 and 1

when the reality is he could be like 40, 12, and 2. Like you just don't know who these guys are that you're taking on when you go down to Mexico. When he came and fought stateside, he did his own deal with Showtime. When he finally signed a deal with Matchroom, It was not a four or a five-year deal with a whole bunch of options on the back end of that contract. It was a short-term deal.

When he signed the deal with top rank and Lou Debella, it was an even shorter term deal. Now he's back with Matrum. And, you know, I think Mattu has some matching rights or another fight with him. So I don't know the exact details of the contract, but it's an even shorter deal. So Devin Haney has given himself the freedom to move around and cherry-picked the best opportunities and to look for the biggest and best fights. If I'm a young fighter, and again, I know there's risk that comes with this.

You walk away from guaranteed money. But if I'm a young fighter, I'm looking at what Devin Haney did. You know, say, you know what? I'm kind of out of the Olympics. I'm coming out of the amateur ranks with some buzz. I'm going to bet on myself early on. I'm going to take short money to go fight Mexico

or fight without a major promoter. And then when I'm 10 fights in, 12 fights in, 15 fights in, let's see what the offers are then. They won't be quite as restrictive. and they might come with more opportunity over the long term. So I like what Devin Haney's done in that respect. So along those lines, what does he do next? You know, Devin wants big events.

Devin wants big fights. Let's eliminate some things right at the top, Corey. It's not going to be Teofimo. Teofimo, I don't know exactly when he's going to fight. Top rank would like to see him fight sometime in February. I still don't know if that's going to happen. but Devin Haney, Teafima Lopez is not going to be a fight in February or March. Neither, I think, is Ryan Garcia.

Oscar Delahoya tweeted out there. I'm going to try to make Devin against Ryan next. Ryan tweeted his interest in the fight, but my read on it is that you're much more likely to see Ryan Garcia face either Roller Romero for that WBA belt or the winner of O'Hara Davies against Ismao, which will be for the interim version, of the WBA title. So I think Ryan's on a track that will get him to Devin Haney, but it won't happen in the next fight. The fight that makes the most sense, and the fight that is the most makeable, at least from a logistical perspective,

is Devin versus Tank Davis. Like, you could not be better set up for a Devin versus Tank fight because not only is Devin accomplished, but he was already accomplished. He was already Undisputed champion dating back to last year. But now Devin has shown he can make some money. He can be an attraction. He can put butts in the seats in the same way he did in San Francisco. If I'm Tank Davis and I've already proven myself as a star, I've sold out buildings all across the country.

I'm coming off a big win over Ryan Garcia. If I'm Tank Davis, am I not looking at this Haney fight thinking this is a great opportunity for me? Yeah, he'd have to go up to one. because Devin's not coming back down to 135. I mean, we'll get into this later, but Devin is a huge 140-pounder. But if you're Tank Davis,

isn't it worth the risk? And if you're PBC, and you just signed this splashy new deal with Amazon, what better fight to either be the first or second fight on that platform than Tank Davis versus Devin Haney? The star versus the accomplished guy, the money guy versus the time, versus the title guy.

Like, there's, clearly do much better than that. I'm terrible at labeling fights. But it just is a natural fit because I said this on air and I'll repeat it here. There is nobody, nobody that wants to see Tank Davis against Esau Cruz. The only people that want to see that are Esau Cruz and Sean Gibbons. They're the only people on Earth that want to see that fight happen. If you make Tank Davis against Esau Cruz 2 on Amazon pay-per-view, it is dead on arrival. It is a financial bloodbath.

Esau Cruz is not going to sell pay-per-views in a rematch. Yes, it was a competitive fight he had with Tank Davis. But since then, it's not like Esau Cruz has been taken on world beaters out there and proving himself at the top level. He has not done what, say, David Benavides has been doing, while Benavides has been waiting for a shot at Canelo. Nobody wants to see Tank against Issa Cruz. A lot of people want to see Tank against Devin Haney.

So PBC don't listen to my advice, that's for sure. But if they want to make a big event early in that Amazon deal, there aren't many bigger events, I think, than Tank Davis versus Devin Haney. Yeah, 100% agree. And I think that that's something that, you know, could top out somewhere in the million pay-per-view by territory, you know, but anything over, you know, 500,000 is a very profitable pay-per-view. And I think that the combination of those two would certainly bring that.

I mean, I'm hesitant to go all the way up to a million because a tank obviously has proven itself to be a very dry. That's more about like, this is a different conversation, but the pay-per-view as a vehicle to produce high revenue is fading fast because, and not because these events aren't good, but because piracy is just rampant. I mean, I was in, like, for an example, I was checking out of the hotel in San Francisco on Sunday,

and the guy at the front desk goes, yeah, I saw you on TV last night. I go, hey, I think I said, you bought the fight, and he goes, no, I streamed it. So, like you're, like, you're, like, And you go on YouTube and there are people streaming, you know, the fight all the time. TikTok, people streaming the fight all the time. So it's a different conversation, but like the reason that it's going to get more and more difficult

to do 700, 800 million pay-per-view plus type of events is because people just steal them. Because piracy is both rampant and fairly easy for a lot of people to do. Yeah. So in a perfect world, this is that that's a fight that could touch those numbers, you know, if everyone didn't pirate it. But it's an extremely profitable fight, and it's also one that seemingly the fighters want. You know, there seems to be animosity between the two and particularly in the days leading up to the fight. And then especially afterwards, Devin and Bill really kind of crossed the line of, I don't mean cross the line in a pejorative way.

I mean, like entered into the territory of really targeting tank and the Mayweathers. You know, in the beginning of their career, and I wrote about this on Monday, on, on, boxing scene, very explicitly, their blueprint was Floyd Mayweather. You know, Bill at a young age, told a young Devin, hey, look at Floyd. That's someone that, like, that's who you want to be. Let's follow that model. And they did. And they were even in that gym.

They learned from Floyd Senior. He has been, you know, the inspiration for a lot of things that Devin has done inside and outside of the ring. But now they kind of feel confident that they can go after this guy. The person that they idolized is someone that they can now target and target his protege. It's a fascinating storyline. And it's a combination of fighters that, again, really have a foothold outside of just boxing popularity. You know, Devin, I think, has shown that, you know, he has a level of popularity in the hip hop world.

He started to get kind of referenced in rap songs. He has ties to the fashion world, the choices that he makes and what he wears in the ring, the designers that he works with. And Tank does too. Tank has long been established in those regards to. This is a fight that could transcend just the hardcore boxing nerds out there and really do numbers at the gate and on the television set. That it's the kind of event that we should be pushing for.

So if we can make it, obviously, that's the one that I want. And it seems like it's the one that the fighters want, but will the mechanisms within the sport get in the way of that, remains to be seen. Look, and Devin's following is growing. He's got, I think, almost 3 million followers on Instagram. The numbers he's been putting up on YouTube in terms of promotional events have been pretty good. Look, I think if that fight ever got made, the build up to it would be intense for the reasons that you laid out there. But also, I think that Tank Davis would probably take a page out of Regis Progress Playbook and basically call Devin Haney, you

you know, rich kid. I'm searching for the right phrases here, but like he would go after him because Tank Davis, you know, he comes from one place in Baltimore, Devin Haney, as Regis Prograde pointed out repeatedly during this program,

the press door, never really had to work for it, had some money, grew up in Henderson, Nevada, all the things that, you know, Regis did to try to get under Devin's skin.

I think Tank Davis would do the exact same thing. And I think it would make the buildup to that fight intense. I think that fight would do really well. I also think it's the last, time that we're going to have the opportunity to make a fight like that. Because Devin Haney, sooner rather than later, is going to be moving up and wait again.

He weighed 165 pounds, Corey, on fight night. He rehydrated 25 pounds in 24 hours. That, according to the California State Athletic Commission, that is Zerto Ramirez type numbers. Like, that's a huge rehydration. So when Devin says he's thinking about testing the waters at Welterweight, that's not lip service. Like he actually needs to move up and wait at some point in the very near future. I think he'd stay at 140 for a Tank Davis. I think he'd stay at 140 for Ryan Garcia.

But either way, he's not staying at 140 all that much longer. So I would, if there's an opportunity, I would jump on it because that is one of the biggest fights you can make in 2024. All right. Let's talk about a couple other things. Jake Paul back in action this weekend in Florida. Third fight of the year for Jake Paul. I was going to take on a guy named Andre August.

Corey, you are deeper in the weeds on the lesser-known boxers than I am. But I got to tell you, I had no idea how Andre August was when they made this fight. He is, and this is not being disrespectful, but he is a club fighter in the Texas area. He's 10-1, so he's got a little bit of experience. He's got some Golden Gloves background. But, you know, he is very much an unknown coming into this fight. is why it surprised me that Jake Paul took this fight because I don't know exactly what the upside is for him. Andre August is not ranked by any of the sanctioning bodies. Andre August is not

well known in the boxing community. If you watch the press conference on Wednesday, Andre August says nothing, like he brought nothing to the table in that press conference. What do you make of Jake Paul taking on an opponent like this to end the year? Well, I think for a couple fights now, and you know, we talk about Jake. every time he fights because he commands that kind of attention and he has a level of importance within our sport that I was curious when that strategy of fighting former or current MMA fighters when that was going to run out because an issue for Jake was always going to be, you know, how long is he willing to fight so long as his opponents can't be famous people that aren't

quite as good as the public knows. And that was basically the model that he's carried for the most part to this point, with the exception of the Tommy Fury fight. And more and more, I think Jake has wanted to plead for legitimacy. And I think that that's what this is. I think that this is a request to be taken seriously as a normal fighter. And so in that sense, I mean, this fight is kind of like it's a loss leader. You know, it's like at the supermarket when they get you in the door with like, you know, blueberries are like three bushels for $5, and then you get in there and spend, you know, $20 on, you know, premium granola or whatever.

Like it's, I think this is Jake trying to get you in the door. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying here. This is Jake trying to get people on board with the idea that he is going through the more conventional path that fighters would take. And I think that Jake has really doubled down. He keeps mentioning, you know, I'm going to fight Canella one day. I will be world champion. And by kind of repeating it, you know, he'll say it's Jake, you know,

trying to actualize, you know, what he's visualizing and whatnot. But I think it's a good PR strategy to put that out there in the world to convince people to try to buy into this journey of Jake Paul as legitimate boxer who actually is trying to go through the conventional channels. And so this is just the start of that. But I am curious, you know, how long will people be? be willing to go along for that ride. How many Andre Augusts can he face before people get tired of it?

We'll see. I think there's probably just one. And look, I said this to Jake coming up later in the show that this feels like very high risk for relatively low reward. It's going to make some money on it. Of course, I'll do a good crowd in Orlando, but this is not a mega event. And if you lose to an Andre August, that's a wrap. Like, you don't bounce back from.

that. You can bounce back from a loss to Tommy Fury, given how the fight played out. You knock down Tommy Fury towards the end. And I'm not sure how much better Tommy Fury is than Andre August, quite frankly. But if you lose to Andre August, you're one and two in 2020. There's probably no coming back from that, at least not as a legitimate boxer. You can stay on the influencer circuit. You can keep pursuing those fights with guys like KSI. But this dream of becoming a world champion and probably ends if you lose to an Andre August. So what do you think about that dream, though? Because, look, Jake, for a while,

and I've covered Jake extensively. I mean, I've written, God knows how many stories for S.I.com at this point. Put it on the cover of Sports Illustrated over the summer. So I've got a PhD in Jakeology at this point. Up until like this year, he really wasn't talking much about winning championships. In fact, it was kind of the opposite where he would say, say things like, you know, I'm not looking to become a world champion. I'm not looking to do this.

He's just, when he was early in his career, he wasn't talking about winning world titles. Now, he's talking about it in virtually every interview. He's talking about taking on Canelo in many interviews. He wants a piece of that world title. Look, he's got to get through an under August 1st. He's got to get through a bunch of other guys. But can you see Jake Paul in a world title fight as late as early as next year, as late as two years? Like, do you think that's a possibility for a guy like him? I mean, listen, I think that if all things were actually equal, and this weren't Jake Paul, if this were a person with Jake Paul's abilities, I would say no. The answer would be no. But I think that there is definitely a way to game this. I mean,

listen, like the WBC just like, you know, sponsored like a cryptocurrency, you know, like fucking, like virtual event on Fight TV the other day. Like the WBC might want to present itself as this like paragon of fairness or something like that, but they will go where the money is, right? And Jake Paul, shameless. I think one thing that he will be able to benefit from now, and something that he's benefited from the whole way, really, is time and resources. and Jake Paul taking on club fighters with nice looking records that probably don't have resources, probably have to go work a day job

and then trained with whoever, I mean, he's going to be, he will probably be able to rack up a bunch of wins against guys whose records look decent enough. And when they look decent enough, a sanctioning body at some point is more than likely going to say,

man, I want a piece of this cash. Let's throw him in there at number 15. And then suddenly he's available for a world time. fight. That's going to happen. So yes. My answer is yes. Like can you know, my answer would be yes too, because some way somehow, I think someone like you said will put him in that mix. My challenge, maybe I'm giving sanctioning bodies too much credit, which is probably the first time I've ever said that on this podcast. But how do you rank Jake Paul in your top 15 where he becomes eligible

to fight for a world title? What's the pathway? Like as shameless as the WBC was when they said they would rank the winner of Jake versus Tommy Fury. Tommy only got ranked like, what, like 38 or something like that? He was in the high 30s. He didn't get ranked at a championship level. Like the biggest, most shameless thing the WBC did recently was put Francis Ngano at number 10. I would love, love DeMaricio Suleiman explained to me how Francine Gano deserves at it with an 0-1 record to be ranked ahead of Philip Hercovich and Jay Lejean. Love to hear that. explanation. You welcome back Maricio anytime. But getting to 15 without taking on a dangerous guy

is difficult. So is Jake Paul going to, you know, think of a dangerous non-title holder at 175. I don't know who that would be. Maybe it better be of loses to Callum Smith. Maybe Jake Paul takes him on. I wouldn't recommend that. But maybe he does something like that. um cruiserweight not a talent rich division at least not a division full of names maybe he takes on a top 15 guys there gets a win or has a good showing maybe somebody bumps him up in that respect but getting eligible i think is going to be the biggest challenge i have no doubt that these champions will want to face him i mean canelo's already making some noise about it demeter bble will do it in a heartbeat archer better be able to do it in a heartbeat uh but you can't take on a guy in a title fight

unless they are ranked by the sanctioning bodies. I think that's going to be Jake's biggest challenge. How does he get ranked? I don't really see the pathway to getting there if I'm Jake Paul. Like could Canello fight him in a non-title fight? Sure, I could see that in 2025. Why wouldn't he? I mean, if Jake continues to rack up wins against low-level guys and influencers,

his reputation as a boxer may not grow that much, but his marketability will. And that's really all someone like Canello would ultimately be interested. interested in. But again, if a sanctioning body winds up just doing this for no reason, then I'll stand corrected. But I'm going to believe that these sanctioning bodies are not going to just give him a ranking unless he has a win or a good showing against the top level guy. But the reality is that's not always the case. Like as you were talking, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm curious about this. Let's just pull up, you know, an aggregate of all the rankings right now. And

there are definitely people, you know, in that like 15 to 10 range in every weight division, you look at and you're like, who in the fuck is that? And who did they beat to get there? Like, here's an example. You know, in the IBF at Cruiserweight, Zhao Jing Zhang is the number 15 rated contender. Now, I called his fight against Riyadh, Murhe in, in Belgium back in 2021. In order to get that shot, his best win was over Gianjing Wang, who was a 9th, and one club level Chinese cruiserweight. He had never beaten anyone whatsoever and got that title shot, got absolutely destroyed, bounces back with one win in Dubai, and he's right back at number 15 in the world rankings. Like, this happens all the time. People sneak in there. I mean,

like Jan Pellerin, who's a Canadian club fighter, snuck in at number 15 at cruiserweight at one point. And he laughed about it. He's like, I am not one of the 15. best cruiser weights in the world. He acknowledged how farcical it was. This can and will happen. I guarantee you that if he can just keep beating club fighters, he will be ranked in the top 15 by somebody over the next two years. I never thought we'd see the day where I show more faith in the sanctioning bodies, or you show more fifth, fourth, eighth in the sanctioning bodies that I do, Corey, that says something. It's happening. It's going to happen. All right. All right. Let's finish with the big fight this weekend.

That's Sunny Edwards against Bam Rodriguez, 112-pound unification fight down in Glendale, Arizona. So if you can watch live on the zone, we'll both be in Glendale over the weekend. I'm excited about this one because it's really, to me, a coin flip type of fight. In Bam Rodriguez, you've got kind of the boxer puncher, Sunny Edwards, the classic boxer. I can't sit here and guarantee it's going to be this aesthetically pleasing fight. I'm not expecting Gotti Ward on Saturday. I'm not even expecting, frankly, you know, Haney Progray or, you know, Garcia Duarte. Like I just, I don't know how this fight's going to play out in the ring.

But I do think it's going to be an interesting chess match between Sunny, who's going to try to box from the outside, and Bam, who's going to try to close the gap. So when you look at this fight, where are some of the variables for you when it comes to Sunny Edwards and Bam Rodriguez? Yeah, this is a really fascinating fight. And I can see it, I mean, I could see it going a variety of different directions. You know, like I can see Bam hurting Sonny early and, you know, like this becomes a very easy fight for him. I could see Sonny making this a horrendous fight and, you know, potentially nearly shutting out Bam Rodriguez. Or I could see, I think, the more likely possibility, which is that we have a lot of kind of tricky rounds to score, a lot of debatable rounds.

And for me, when I'm thinking about this fight... Yeah, well, I mean, it's going to be very hard. And as I was thinking about this fight, Chris, I kept thinking about the way that Sonny Edwards approaches fights and the way the patterns in how fights involving fighters like him are typically scored. You know, and we think of fighters like Sonny, I mean like explicit movers, guys who are looking to move,

negate what their opponents are doing, and win rounds. I'm thinking of our friend Sergio, I'm thinking of Corey Spinks. I'm thinking of guys like that who like plan A is used as much of the ring as possible. And one thing that you see quite often in their fights, and we've seen it in Sunny Edwards fights to this point, is that they're at a little bit of a disadvantage on the scorecards because the judges are never quite sure exactly what they're seeing.

And sometimes it takes them a few rounds to clue in as to what they're seeing. And then sometimes around the midway point of the fight, they start second-guessing what they're seeing. And what do I mean by that? I mean that there have been fights where Sonny Edwards, you know, take like the Muhammad-Wasim fight, for example. I thought that there wasn't really too many moments in that fight where I thought that Sunny wasn't in control of what was happening in that fight.

I thought that he was dictating what was happening. But yet they found rounds to give to Muhammad Wasim. And you see that on the scorecards in a lot of other Sonny Edwards fights where somehow, you know, they're giving four or five rounds to his opponents. in fights where it looks like he's controlling things because judges don't have the luxury that I have as a commentator, which is that I can kind of take the first four or five rounds and take that in a capsule. I can put it in context and I can decide, okay, is this guy running from something or is he making someone run at him? Is he dictating the terms of what is happening or is he avoiding what he thinks might happen?

to him. And I have the luxury of deciding what is actually happening. I can make that call, and then I can start narrating. Judges have to score it round by round. And I think that sometimes with fighters like Sonny, it'll take them a while to clue in to the fact that he is actually controlling things. Or at a certain point, if that pattern persists, they start thinking, well, is he just running? I mean, this guy can't quite get him. Like, is he not engaging enough? And so sunny is kind of at a disadvantage on the scorecards here. And I think that that is, a big hurdle for him to get over in a fight like this where I don't think he's going to be able to hurt Bam. That's not really his game. He's not a big puncher.

So you're going to see a lot of rounds that are going to look pretty similar. And even when Sonny's having success, I think he's going to have to make these rounds really, really clear in order to get the benefit of the judge. And notice, I'm not saying it's because Bam is the home fighter or because we're in Arizona or anything like that. is that his style is very difficult for judges to get a read on. And that, for me, is the biggest thing to watch out for, unless Bam can hurt him early in the fight and that none of this matters. Oh, you also wouldn't be wrong, though, by pointing out that Bam is the home fighter. And this fight is taking place in Arizona.

Sure. Because when you talk about variables, that is a variable. Sonny Edwards is coming effectively to Bam Rodriguez's backyard and trying to win a fight against him. Whether we like it or not, in boxing, that is something you have. have to take into account. A couple things for me. One, Sonny didn't look good in his last fight. Now, Sonny has kind of dismissed that.

He's like, yeah, I wasn't really up for Campos. I thought I was going to be fighting Bam Rodriguez. Bam got injured. So I took this fight as a title defense. But he didn't look good against the guy that is a lot worse than Bam Rodriguez. And before we dismissed that as being much ado about nothing, kind of dismissed the pro gray Zaria fight as much ado about nothing. just last week. And that turned out to be maybe a little bit of a foreshadow of what was to come

for Regis Pro Gray. Now, they're in different positions. Regis Pro Gray is 34. Sonny Edwards is 27. Still very much in the prime of his career. But he did not look good in his last fight. And that stands out to me. For Bam Rodriguez, it's coming off a bad jaw injury. Broken jaw in a couple of different places. Like, how does that hold up? Now, you mentioned Sunny is not a big puncher, and that certainly works in the favor of Bam. But, you know, Bam was telling me a couple of a month ago that he wasn't going to start sparring until November. That seemed kind of late to sort of pick up sparring when your fight is in mid-December. So I'm interested to see just how much trust Bam shows in that jaw early on.

You know, can Sunny take advantage of it in some way? But, you know, you hit the nail on the head on the style being difficult to score in favor of Sonny Edwards. He's going to throw and land a lot of the softer stuff. And Bam Rodriguez might not throw as a lot. much, but his punches are going to be harder. His punches are probably going to be more eye-catching. So this is going to be a fight that I think Sonny is going to have to win seven rounds,

which obviously goes without saying, but seven rounds clean. Like he's going to need seven rounds that are beyond reproach. When it's close, I don't think the judges are likely to give Sonny the benefit of doubt because he is probably going to be landing the softer punches and he's not going to be coming forward. And aggressive fighters, they often get the benefit of the doubt on judges' scorecard. So this is, you're going to have to have Sonny's A game in a fight like this. That's very difficult to have against a fighter with the kind of talent of Bam Rodriguez. Yeah, the big variable for me is that, and this is working in Sonny's favor, is that when

Bam has looked, and worst is very relative to him because, you know, he's looked pretty good throughout his career. But when he's looked at the least good has been when he's had to pursue. And Sonny is going to make him pursue because Bam's offense is best when he's either, when he either has an opponent who's willing to kind of stand at mid-range with him or is coming at him because Bam's offense is best when he can use angles boxing a little bit off the back foot and counter. But Sonny doesn't really let anyone really use angles on him because he's always twisting

and turning. And he's switching stances he's doing a lot. It's going to take a lot for Bam to do what he does best, which is make that quick pivot to land power shots because Sonny's going to be moving somewhere always. So I think that there's going to be a level of discomfort most likely for Bam, again, unless he can land something serious. Now, in watching Sunny throughout his career, one thing that Sonny will do is that he will playfully go to the ropes because he's very confident in his defense. He has tremendous eyes. He has tremendous feel and vision. I don't know that he can get away with doing that kind of stuff. It's one thing to do it against Campos or Alvarado is an entirely different thing to give a murderous puncher like Bam Rodriguez the opportunity to hit you freely. Even if you think that you can catch most of it, you don't want to make those decisions. And so if Sunny makes that kind of mental error, I think that would,

if he does, Bam has to capitalize immediately. He has to take advantage of those chances when, you know, Sunny's ego is maybe going to get the best of him because at some point, that likely is going to happen. Yeah, and it's dangerous for Sonny Edwards to anticipate that he can take any punches from Bam on the ropes because Bam is not just punching from straight angles. Bam is, you know, out of that kind of Lomachenko school, Devin Haney's school, where he steps around, where he is, if he, if you're standing there, right in front of him in the blink of an eye,

he's to your left or to your right. Like he is very good at creating those angles, which is something else he's going to have to try to do over the course this fight. It's going to be a good one, though. I'm looking forward to it, Glendale, Arizona. Flyweight unification, 112 pound, two titles on the line.

All right, Corey, good stuff, man. Check out Corey Erdman in boxing scene.com. Appreciate it, buddy. All right, we'll see you soon. And when we come back, my conversation with Jake Paul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because, of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your On Friday night, Jake Paul is back looking for his eighth professional win when he takes on veteran Andre August. That's a fight you can watch live on DeZone. The co-main event is actually a terrific women's world title fight between former undisputed champion Franchion Cruz Dazern and Shadatia green.

Jake, I was watching the press conference and not a lot of fireworks between you and Andre August, but plenty of smoke between Shadatia and Franchon. I don't recall Shadasha being this surly a couple of years ago. You seem to be having a pretty profound impact on her. Yeah, look, I'm excited for that fight. I got hyped up that that made me super excited and it's cool, you know? Like, I think that makes the fight more interesting. And Shadasia even said it, like, her nickname is the sweet Terminator.

So she's normally sweet and nice, but apparently French on her. So, I mean, of course, that's going to. come up years later and man there's clearly there's clearly some unsolved business there french on didn't deny she spit on her either so there's definitely some some mess between those two that's wild yo so let's talk about you last summer you beat nate dyes in kind of a grudged match what was your thinking after that fight and how did we get to andre august yeah my thinking has been stay You know, my goal, I wrote it down at the beginning of the year is fight three times. So I had Tommy Nate and it was like, let's finish off the goals for this year and get another one in, staying active on the path to world champion.

And that's what my coaches are really pushing on me. It's like, oh, you want this Jake? All right. You have to fight and stay active and stay in camp and taking their advice and their leadership as well because they've been in the game for for so long and know how to get there. Jay Leon, a world champion. Third, as a coach, has, you know, tons of world champions and experience there. Same with Larry Wade. So we all have the same mindset, and it's about putting it into action and bettering myself.

You could pick basically anyone out there on this level. Why Andre August, what are you looking for in this particular opponent? Yeah, I'm just looking for experience. under the lights, a challenge, getting, getting some good rounds and putting my, you know, taking what I did in camp and putting it into action, which as a lot of people in the boxing industry know, you could be amazing in the ring and be great in sparring. And then doing it all on fight night is, is a little bit different of a skill set. And it's about getting better at that, the nerves, the pressure dealing with all of these things. And it's,

becoming more second nature and that's what I'm going to need when I get to these bigger names, these tougher fights, more rounds, etc. You know, this August fight feels pretty high risk, low reward for you. Is the upside just that that you can get experience against opponents like this to prepare you for bigger things next year? Yeah, it's delayed. It's delayed gratification. These fights,

that I'm taking now are going to pay off in the long run. And when I'm in tougher bouts in a few years, fighting 12 rounds against the best people in the sport, I'm going to look back at fights like these and be thankful that I did them to go through maybe at moments of adversity, to go through more camps. Because if you don't have a fight that the training is wildly different, You could think you're working hard, but there's something about signing up to fight another man

that just takes things to a whole other level of preparation. So this fight's going to have a lot of delayed gratification down the line. Your previous opponents have offered kind of some built-in motivation, whether it was Tommy Fury and Nate Diaz and all the talking that went around. Even Anderson Silva and Tyron Woodley were two, UFC legends. What have you done to try to find the motivation for this fight? Man, I don't know if I use, I don't think I use motivation that much in life because it's very

short term and it burns up really fast. I think what more people need to do is figure out a goal and commit. to the requirements of what it takes to reach that goal and not deviate at all. And that's really what it's about. I think the love for the sport and doing this because I'm passionate about it is more important in getting to those goals that I know I can achieve and doing what is required of me to get there. So I'd like to think that I know a good amount about combat sports, but on the same night that you're fighting Andre August, I'm reading on social media that KSI, your long-time rival,

is going to spar somebody named Speed and stream it online. What is the deal with that? Yeah, man, it's pretty wild. I think first and foremost, it's crazy for KSI to be, you know, hurting his deal. distribution partner into zone. It just shows what type of businessman he is to basically be saying a fuck you to them. But on top of that, it's me living in this kid's head to him try to always one up me as a 30 year old doing a sparring match with his goal to be getting more views, which I think is cute.

Get the views. We're chasing two different things here. I'm chasing legacy, experience, a world championship, building and growing the sport of boxing, a WBC world championship as the co-main event, getting Shadasia Green to be a superstar. He wants to prove that he's going to get more hype, but I think it's backfiring just simply because everyone's now more talking about my event. It's creating more buzz. and at the end of the day,

he's going to get some views and be happy. And if that's what he wants in his life, then go for it. I have no hate. There's enough room in this world for everybody. I can build my skyscraper as high as I want without trying to affect someone else's. But what he's trying to do is take down my skyscraper.

You know, you mentioned two different goals. Jake, but the reality is you do want that matchup with KSI at some point. You want it. We both the zone wants it. Do you think in 2024 KSI is going to want it? I don't think he'll fight me ever. And I said that before I fought Gibb in my first professional fight, you can go back to the video that I posted on YouTube of me sitting in Big Bear and Shane Mosley's gym saying once he sees what I do to Gibb, he's never going to want to fight me. And I still believe that. Unfortunately, it's too much risk for him.

And I don't think his ego could handle that loss. So as much as I want the fight, I just don't think it ever will happen, honestly. So you're taking this Andre August fight because you see it as the next step to your pursuit of a world title. How do you get there? Have you mapped out kind of the pathway

way to get into the rankings, to become eligible, to get that world title opportunity. Yeah, look, it's one step at a time, but treating myself like a young boxing prospect. So first and foremost, staying super active, fighting three, four times a year, fighting people with similar or more experience than me to push myself, working up the ranks, eight-round fight, 10 round fights, all of these things, staying in camp. And when the timing is right, we'll identify what steps are needed to be made to get to that level and to execute the game plan of becoming a world champion. But it's going to be a bumpy path. It's going to be a rough path. It's not going to be easy at all, but that's what I signed up for.

You know, Canelo Alvarez, who is the undisputed champion at 168, for a lot of years, he would often say, nah, I'm not going to fight Jake Paul, whenever it was brought up. He's kind of opened that door a little bit in recent interviews about the possibility of fighting you. Do you think that is becoming more and more realistic, whether it is next year, the year after? Do you see that window opening up to an extent? For sure. I still fully believe that it will happen. and I've believed it since the first day I said it.

It just makes sense all the way around the board. And as I grow in my experience and as he comes to the end of his career in terms of fighting the number one people in the world, he's going to want to go out of the sport with hundreds of millions of dollars and what better a way than to fight me. So I think it's very interesting. And I think because of my weight, because of my height, and me gaining more experience in the next 24 months, it actually becomes a really interesting matchup. A lot of guys have size. A lot of guys have height. Do you really want that getting in the ring with Canelo?

100%. doubt in my mind that I want that. I know what I'm capable of. I know that I can rise to occasions. And a lot of times, you know, these fighters are filled with fear and think that they can't do something. And if that's the case, then that then they're right. I'm getting better on a day-to-day basis in this sport. And the best part about me fighting Canello is, going to be when I pull off one of the greatest upsets in the sport of boxing and leave people with their jaws on the floor. So, you know, it's all fun in games. People can laugh at it, uh, can doubt me all of these things. It's nothing new. Since I was a kid, that's been the case.

Me saying I'm going to do something everybody in the world besides maybe my brother, my mom, and my dad thinking it's a joke and then me accomplishing it times fucking 10. So shit can be sweet. We can sit here, but I believe it's going to happen and I believe I'll win. I know you got to go. But real quick, last February, I was in New York with Amanda Serrano announcing the rematch for her and Katie Taylor. That fight didn't happen. Katie went on to fight Chantelle Cameron twice, but instead of we're us talking about fighting Amanda Serrano in Croke Park in the summer. Eddie Hearn said last week

that the focus is on the Cameron trilogy. Jake, you promote Amanda Serrano. It sure feels to me like the rematch between Amanda and Katie is dead. What can you say about that? Man, I think, yeah, it's coming from their side. Amanda wants to make the fight happen. See, that's the thing.

At most valuable promotions, we're not like these typical boxing people. This shit is fucking simple. pick a date, pick a wait, and make it happen. Sign the fucking contract. It's all of these things and da-da-da-da-da-da. It's these snake oil salesmen who hide behind these false claims and reasons why they can't make a fight at certain times or fighters not wanting to actually do it. MVP is shaking that whole entire thing up.

We're just doing straight-up business and all of our fighters. are ready to fucking go against whoever, wherever, whenever. So the ducking is coming from Katie Taylor. Amanda Sorano is ready and has been ready since the moment that I believe she won that fight. So yeah, let's make the rematch happen. We know you're ready to go. Friday night, Andre August, live on DeZone in Orlando, Florida. Jake, good to talk to you, man, and good luck on Friday.

Thank you, man. Appreciate you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Jake Paul for joining the show, as always. Subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. I am going to try to do one more podcast this week. So stay on the lookout for that Friday or Saturday. Subscribe to the podcast feed so you won't miss it.

It's a busy week in boxing. And I think we still have some stuff that we want to talk about. So stick around. We'll talk then. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comments. Comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the Look Back at it podcast. 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

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