The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jake Paul and the State of Boxing

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Chris and Keith Idec react to Jake paul's latest win and what this win means for him as a boxer. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right, bonus podcast time. It was a busy weekend in boxing that was highlighted by Jake Paul, the novice boxer taking on Anderson Silva in Arizona. Jake Paul wins a unanimous decision over the former MMA star to improve at 6.0. and I want to talk about it a little bit because Jake is obviously a polarizing guy in this sport. Keith Ideck was ringside for Jake Paul, Anderson Silva. Keith, I guess start here. General thoughts about Jake's performance.

You know, you'd have to walk away from it impressed, right? Because Anderson Silva is a much better boxer than Tyron Woodley or anyone else that he has fought. while he's not a boxer by trade, he's very good. You know, he's obviously he beat Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. Very convincingly, the split decision was just a reflection of the fight being in Mexico. He dominated Chavez in that fight. So it's a very credible win for Jake Paul. The one thing I would say about the scoring is I thought it was a closer fight than two of the judges had at 78, 73.

I did not think it was a 6-2 type of fight. I would, you know, of course there are a couple of close rounds and everything. so 6-2 is not all that different than 5-3. But, you know, if the judges would have had the knockdown as the difference on the scorecards, I would not have had a problem with that because, you know, the punch stats, which, you know, can be misleading sometimes I thought were pretty accurate in this case. And it reflected a very, very competitive fight. I think there was only, there were only four punches separating them on the CompuBox final tally.

So I thought it was a competitive fight. I was impressed with Jake Paul's stamina. his stamina in this fight was much better than his eight-round fight against tyron woodley so they've clearly worked on that and he's only six fights into his career guys to as you well know chris guys typically don't fight eight rounds um and he's an anomaly in many ways but they don't fight eight-round fights usually i mean you know loma chenko and guys like that elite elite level guys do but for the most part prospects with no boxing background don't fight eight-round fights you know four fights in, six fights in. So his endurance was impressive. He's got real power. You know,

Chad Dawson had talked about that before the fight. I mean, he does have some real pop in his right hand, which Anderson Silva clearly felt in the beginning of the eighth round. You know, Silva said he wasn't all that hurt by it. He was more in a bad position in terms of his footwork and got knocked off balance and everything. He did get right up and he made the rest of the round competitive, I thought. But, you know, so you walk away from it impressed by Jake Paul, beating and Sova. Again, I just thought the scoring should have been a little closer. And, you know, he is 47 years old.

So that's certainly part of this narrative as well. Yeah, I thought Jake Paul did enough to win. I agree with you. I don't think it should have been as wide. It felt more like a 5-3 type of fight with the knockdown thrown in there. But you mentioned the conditioning and the stamina of Jake Paul. When I was down in Puerto Rico a couple of weeks ago, that was a real point of emphasis for Jake and the people around him. He's had BJ Flores with him since pretty much the

very beginning. He was a sparring partner for that first fight and then took over as the lead trainer for the second. They brought in Danny Smith to that team and Danny is an experienced trainer, trained BJ. He worked with Fernando Vargas. He's worked with Diego Corrales in some capacity in the past and he's done a lot of work with Jake on the defensive part of his game. I think he saw a little bit of that in the fight on Saturday. But being able to go eight rounds, I do think that is a feather in the cap for Jake Ball because you're right.

You look back at the top, top guys, the great fighters. Like, sometimes they're 10 fights in before they go eight rounds. I mean, maybe they're in that six-round range when they're at the 10-fight mark. Jake Paul going eight rounds, even again. against a guy like Anderson Silva, that was impressive to me. And Silva, yeah, he's 47, but he's crafty in there. Like, he knows what he's doing when he's in the ring. He knows how to set some traps and try to get Jake to fall for him.

And I didn't think he did that. I think, you know, I thought Jake fought a pretty smart fight against Anderson Silva. I guess the question I have for you, and you've watched the most, the recent Jake Paul fights, the Woodley fights and the stuff before it. Are you seeing improvements in the guy you're seeing in the ring beyond? just the conditioning? Certainly. I mean, you certainly see technical improvements, like you said, some defensive improvements. A couple of the things I did not love in the fight, Chris, but he held a lot. He initiated a lot of clinches. He does have a good chin because Anderson Silva can crack a little

bit. He's a big, you know, strong guy. And he did clip him with flush punches several times, and Jake Paul took those shots well. But almost every time he got hit clean, he initiated a clinch. It gets a little tough to watch sometimes when a guy's doing that. It's all part of the sport, of course, and it's a defensive tactic that many guys employ effectively. And the Woodley fight wasn't all that appealing either. Like the Woodley fight had a great finish, but it was a slog for most of it up until that one-punch knockout. Absolutely. You know, the fight was, I thought the fight was reasonably entertaining.

I mean, you know, he fought off his back foot almost exclusively. you know, silver-pressed the action for the most part. But it was a reasonably entertaining fight, I thought, you know, a step forward for a guy who only has six fights. You know, you almost don't know how to fairly assess what he's doing because this is unprecedented. You know, a guy doesn't come in out of nowhere with no boxing background and headline pay-per-view events, and it makes it maybe frustrating and annoying for hardcore boxing fans because, you know, there's a lot of, level of attention that is paid to this that they would prefer not to have happened and they prefer people just to ignore him. But you can't ignore it because it's a,

it's a business model that I didn't think could have existed several years ago, but it is successful. And they are making money off of it. And that's why Showtime is in the Jake Paul business. It's why there is a Jake Paul business. So until someone knocks him off and, you know, maybe Nate Diaz will be that guy, you know, maybe someone else will be that. guy. But, you know, the other thing I would say, Chris, as it relates to him fighting Anderson-Silver, there was a lot of talk about him fighting a quote-unquote real boxer, which I'm sure Jake Paul and his team are tired of hearing, but they're going to continue hearing it until he actually fights a real boxer. But I would say, you know, fighting Anderson Silva, even at 47

years old, and even though he's a mixed martial artist by trade, was probably more difficult than either Tommy, not probably, it was more difficult than fighting Tommy Fury, who's frankly not good. And, and Haseem Rockman Jr., who also is a, you know, is a mediocre boxer. I mean, period. They're real boxers, but they're not top-level boxers by any stretch. I mean, Tommy Fury, I've seen him fight several times. You know, he's Tyson Fury's brother. That's it. I mean, he's not, he's not a good, he's a nice guy, and I don't, you know, I don't want to belittle someone who does this for a living, because I do have an immense around of respect for anyone who does it. But he, if he beats, Tommy, I understand why he would fight Tommy Fury because he's Tyson Fury's brother and you're trying

to draw those fans into watching and paying for the event. But Anderson Silver is better than Tommy Fury. So he's already beaten someone better than the quote unquote real boxer that he might again pursue. I don't think they'll go back to Haseem Rockman Jr. after all of the nonsense that happened over the summer. But he's already beaten someone better than Tommy Fury. He just did it Saturday. Yeah, I don't think they're going back to Seam Rock Bond Jr. either. What I give Jake Paul credit for is that he's been pursuing like Rockman-esque fights, even though Rockman-esque fights are not the most lucrative ones for him. Like Jake Paul's business model is inverted from the traditional boxing model.

The traditional boxing model is the bigger the fight you are in, the more money you make. for Jake Paul, the more difficult the fight he's in is not necessarily, in fact, is not often the most lucrative one that he can be. And me, think about it. Like, he's trying to get Nate Diaz in the ring next year. Nate, I personally don't think Nate Diaz is that tough a test for him because, look, Nate was an incredibly entertaining MMA guy, a good striker. But we've seen these MMA guys come into boxing. with the bigger gloves. It's just not as a back.

Well, Jake knows how to box, and I think he'd eventually get to Nate Diaz. But, like, if he fights the Nate Diaz's and the Tommy Fury's and the KSIs, he's going to make, like, tens of millions of dollars in 2023. But to Jake's credit, like, he wants to fight the, quote, real boxer. He's looking to fight someone like Asim Rahman at some point to prove to the boxing critics that he can face someone. on that level. I just, I give him credit for that because he, like, there really wasn't much interest

in Jake Paul versus Seam Rockman Jr. It didn't, certainly, I think there's probably more interest in Anderson Silva versus Jake Paul, but Jake wants to do it. And, and Keith, I don't know about you, but I give him a lot of credit for that. Well, there's, I do too, Chris, but there's much, much, much, much, much more interest in him fighting Anderson Silva than the Seam Rockman Jr. Because, you know, I was soft pedaling it there a little bit. We're 20 years removed from Hussein Rockman. pulling off one of the biggest upsets in heavyweight history. And he, you know, Hasim Raqman Jr., of course, is the son of a, you know, of a former heavyweight champion, which means something.

But he, but again, he's been a guy who hasn't taken, his own father said he hasn't taken training seriously. He's underachieved. His dad said that during the press conference for their fight. So it's not somewhat, while he is a quote unquote real boxer, he's not a high level. He's not even considered a real prospect after losing back in April. So, so, yeah, he's in a. a tricky position, Chris, because you have, you know, if they can make the Nate Diaz fight,

that will be the next fight for him because Nate Diaz is a very popular former UFC fighter. You know, from the, from the boxing fans perspective, they're going to say, all right, well, you already beat a 47-year-old former UFC fighter. All right, so now you're fighting a 37-year-old former UFC fighter, who's a worse boxer, but 10 years younger. The point is, we've already seen you beat multiple. former UFC fighters. But again, there is a demand for this.

You know, I saw it. I was there. The other, you know, now the, the, the, the reason that he has to go to former UFC fighters and UFC, you know, the most popular, you know, Ben Ascran was not a popular UFC fighter. That was a little different. But,

you know, Tyron Woodley was popular, but Anderson Silver is a legend. You know, and Nate Diaz, while not as successful or good as Anderson Silva, either in MMA or probably boxing, is a very, very popular figure. When Nate Diaz walked into the building on Saturday night, people erupted. And that's the other thing. Need that other faction of fans to make these events successful. Because I got to be honest,

when Jake Paul got, as far as I could tell, you're not doing a head count, of course, while you're on deadline just sitting there. But as far as I can tell, Jake Paul got booed on Saturday night a lot more than he got cheered. Because there were a lot of MMA, you know, while you and I are not big MMA fans or supporters or whatever, but these guys are wildly popular and most of the fans that I could see or I could tell them, maybe not most, but certainly half were MMA fans that were there to see Anderson Silva much more than they were there to see Jake Paul. So you kind of need, I don't know that you could call Anderson Silva the B side. I mean, he's Anderson Silver, right?

I mean, he's a legendary figure in MMA. So that's what makes matching him so tricky moving forward because he's going to continue fighting guys who have established fan bases because to make money on pay-per-view, he has to fight those types of guys. Chris, you know, you and I would love to say, or boxing, you know, people who read boxing scene, people who, you know, watch every zone fight and all, they would like to say, okay, well, maybe if he gets three or four more fights, maybe he'll fight and, I don't know, the top, the 13th ranked cruiserweight contender in the world. Well, the problem with that is, is that no one knows who the 13th ranked cruiserweight contender in the world is, and you can't

make money on pay-per-view just to appease people who don't want to see him fight. Sooner or later, you're going to run out of UFC legends to fight. I mean, this can't continue for five years. But who do you fight then? You know, like you said, he can go through, if his two fights next year are Nate Diaz and Tommy Fury, it will be a successful year for Jake Paul, particularly financially. So they're going to keep going down this path because it's a successful business model. In the long term, I don't know really what you, now, where he loses me,

and you can't knock the hustle right i mean they're they're they're i mean they're making money and they're doing and they're smart and they're savvy and they're and they're uh i don't want to say exploiting but they're they're capitalizing on this uh fan base that he has from social media and they're combining it with the mma fan base and they're making a lot of money um where he loses me is when he says that he wants to fight canello and stop stop it i mean i understand it's all part of the promotion and all part of the show it's trolling it's true it's all it's all part of the show to some degree. But I don't want to hear that.

I mean, come on. You're right. He's not going to fight you know. What I can see him doing, though, Keith, I can see him at the end of all this, like in three years maybe, vying for a light heavyweight title. Somebody's going to rank him.

You and I both know. It's probably going to be the WBC, which Maricio Suleiman's out there praising him on social media after the fight. Somebody's going to rank him in the top 15. And then if he's ranked in that top 15, Like, you don't need to climb the rankings if you're Jake Paul. Somebody at the top of the light heavyweight division will give you a world title shot. I don't know who the title holders are going to be in three years, but say it's an American who, I don't know, whoever moves up from 168, something like that.

Say it's somebody along those lines. They will give Jake Paul the opportunity. I can see that happening at the end of all this. But for next year, you're right. He fights Nate Diaz. That's a fucking monster. Like that's in Vegas, does a big gate, a big pay-per-view, none. number. The buildup would be incredible. That's a big event. He goes over to the UK and fights Tommy

Fury. That's a big event over there. I know that KSI is lurking out there, beat his brother a few years ago. He's doing his own thing on DeZone, trying to reignite his boxing career. That's another monster over in the UK. So he is going to run out of these guys at some point, Keith, but not anytime soon, and certainly not probably for the next like 18 months of his boxing career. Yeah, he probably fights twice a year because he's making much like Canelo. Now I'm not saying he's making Canelo money because no one's really making Canelo money. He's making as much as anyone else though.

He's making as much as almost anyone else. He's making a lot of money. And you fight twice a year. That's all you need to fight is twice a year. You have two pretty big events. You keep, you know, trying to develop narratives along the way, have the next potential opponent be, you know, obviously

it was no coincidence that one of Nate Diaz's stablemates was on the undercard fighting a medical doctor, which was insane. I mean, it was a crazy story. I mean, he got the crap kicked out of him, but I give this guy a 32-year-old physician who's like also wildly popular on social media.

Anyway, he fought one of Nate Diaz. They thought he was going to win too. They thought that the doctor was going to win from talking to people around there. They were incorrect on that. Yeah, he laid it on him pretty well in the last three rounds. And you don't like to see, you know, a guy who's, you know, kind of such a bright future that's much more valuable to this world than than being a boxer for the next couple of years get pounded like that.

It's not, you know, it just shows that this ain't for everybody, man. I give the guy a lot of credit for even trying it. I don't know why someone with the medical knowledge that he has would think that this was a good idea. But, but again, full credit to him for trying. But anyway, my original point was, you know, that was done purposefully because Nate Diaz then comes and sits ringside. And of course, Nate Diaz being Nate Diaz started a fight with Jake Paul's team behind the scenes. And there was this brouhaha.

Who knows what was staged and what wasn't. But Nate Diaz has been prone to this type of behavior before. So I'm sure, you know, there was something organic about it. But the point is, you know, they're almost following the wrestling business model here where they're, you know, they sit Nate Diaz ringside. He gets escorted. He literally was escorted from the building by the police. they said you're not welcome here anymore you got to go and then that became viral and then that just starts building into the Nate Diaz promotion for next year and of course he's free from his UFC contract this is all done masterfully from a promotional standpoint and we're going to roll in probably to him fighting Nate Diaz next year and then maybe they go back to Tommy Fury or whomever you know but as long as people keep buying it um you know and it's not doing the you know they're not doing massive pay-perview number of but they're doing successful pay-per-view business,

particularly in the age, Chris, of piracy, which you and I talk about all the time. It's not easy to succeed in the pay-per-view industry anymore. But again, you can't. And Jake's fans and Jake's fan base, they are excellent at piracy. Like that is a young digital savvy fan base. That is not going to buy a pay-per-view unless they have to.

Right. And they are excellent at taking selfies because I've never seen more selfies taken. Holy moly. I mean, there are people sitting in front of us based on where we were sitting, other night where they were just taking, they spent the entire night taking, I was like, have you seen anything that's happened tonight? You've been taking pictures of yourself for four

hours straight. Like, what are you doing? You know, but I, that does drive me crazy. I'm an old, I'm an old cramogen, Chris, so who knows? No, that, that, not to make it about this, that drives me crazy at all sports. Like, you know, some, a big moment happens, everybody's holding their, their phones up. Like, you can see the highlight, you know, you don't need to have it for your own Instagram page. It doesn't really matter. Anyway, last thing for you. What do you say to boxing people and boxing fans about the attention that's paid to Jake Paul. I mean, you were ringside in Arizona for Jake's fight. There were other cards going on that night.

Boxing scene, of course, covered it. But there was one in San Diego that I was at, the Jojo Diaz is a paid a fight. That was an excellent fight. Lomachenko's return was a big moment. But the biggest fight of the weekend was Jake Paul. And like, I got some grief for writing 3,000 words on Jake Paul last week over at S.I.

and when this podcast posts, there'll be people in the comment saying why are you talking about Jake Paul so much? What do you say to boxing people and boxing fans about how much attention is paid to Jake Paul? Well, just from our standpoint, Chris, we did have someone ringside for the Lomachanko card, and I only lived 20 miles. It would have been much easier for me to drive 20 miles to Madison Square Garden for Fight Week than it was to go to Phoenix. But also, as I, you know, I mentioned just for full disclosure, boxing scene is owned by Paramount Global, Showtime is owned by Paramount Global. It's a big event for the company, and there's no mandate to be there.

But he does drive traffic. It's a big event, and it's going to be a crossover event that gains a lot of mainstream attention. So we needed someone to be ringsided. It was obviously me for Saturday. We did have one of our part-time guys who covers boxing regularly was at ringside for the Loma fight. And that almost turned into, just as an aside, that almost turned into the main story. if, you know, Wilma Chanko would have lost, I mean, and you could argue even he didn't lose,

and it still might have been the most noteworthy story of the night that a 25-to-one underdog gave him such a tough fight. Anyway, I would say to the boxing fans, you might not like it, and I understand why they don't like it. It's annoying. They don't consider it real boxing. You know, we hear all of the arguments against it, Chris, but it is gaining a lot of attention. I would say that Jake Paul is really committed to being a boxer. Now, I don't, we don't know how far he can go. We don't know. You know, he's, I don't know, do you even consider him a real, I don't know what to call him, to be honest with you, because again, he's not fighting. I consider, I consider him a real boxer only because.

No, I'm in a real process. Of course he's a real prospect. No, no, no, no, not a prospect. He's got a ceiling. He knows he has a ceiling, too. Like, he wants a guy out of a sport at age like 29. He wants to make a bunch of money, fight these guys. And then, as I said earlier, test himself once at a really high level and see what happens. So I don't see him as a But to your point, like, he does drive traffic. You know, people are interested in Jake Paul a lot more than they're interested in a lot of other things in boxing. And to your point, Chris, if they hate him, like Floyd Mayweather would always say, I don't care why they're buying it. If they're buying it to see me get knocked out eventually, well, fine.

But they're killing off that. There's still, he played the villain. And Jake Paul is, listen, whatever you think of Jake Paul is a boxer, there is absolutely no disputing. that this kid is smart, savvy, and they've done something here that no one would have foreseen five years ago. If someone would have told you and I, you know, old boxing, you're not old, but guys who've been covering boxing for decades, if someone would have said some YouTube guy who's, you know, on the Disney channel and all this, you know, all the stuff that he was doing on YouTube is going to be headlining a Showtime pay-per-view card, and it's going to be

a success, we would have laughed in your face. What he's done here is nothing short of incredible from a business standpoint. Now the boxing leaves something to be desired especially for hardcore boxing fans. They're not but if they're, now they're not

going to pay 60 bucks to watch it, they're going to steal it probably, or just go on boxing scenes, forums or whatever and just crap all over it. But whatever the case, they are paying attention to it, right? They're paying attention to these events to some extent because they want to see him lose. And when he loses, I think that probably will be the end of it.

But what will he care? He will have made, he said last week, he's not, I don't know the exact numbers, but he said something to the effect, I've made generational wealth over these last couple of years off of strictly boxing. I've taken care of my family. That's the goal for every person on earth, right?

We all want to take care of our moms and wives and families and kids and all that's that's the goal for everyone so in that way you know people should admire what he's doing i guess you know what i mean like you might not like it as a hardcore boxing fan because you don't think it's quote unquote real boxing but again you have to respect what he's doing i always go back to this anyone who walks up those steps chris i have respect for because this is not this ain't for everybody as we find out uh over and over and over again I mean, what I say to people in boxing is do something about it. Like, I don't want to keep writing about failed negotiations.

I don't want to write about negotiations, period. But that's often what we're left with when it comes to the most substantive fights. I mean, I wrote this last week. Boxing created this lane for Jake Paul to arrive in. Like, it created this opportunity. There was a vacuum for compelling content. and Jake Paul has filled it. I personally think that boxing could eliminate Jake Paul.

If you gave boxing fans like one massive show a month, then probably less of an appetite for Jake Paul, I think. But boxing doesn't do that. Boxing is the sport that it's like your mom telling you to eat your vegetables and then pay $75 for it too. Like it doesn't give us what we want. want doesn't give us the good stuff. It's forcing 10 to 1 fights down our throats and oftentimes saying buy it on paper

view too. Like just if you're in boxing, do something about it. If you're a fan of boxing, stay on the people in boxing to do something about it. Don't support the crap that gets kind of tossed at you because I think as quickly as Jake Paul was made by the downturn of boxing, he can be wiped out by. by a rise in boxing next year. One thing I would say, Chris, is I'm not sure that it's the same people buying

because I don't think for the most part the people that are buying these pay-per-views. Maybe there's a small percentage of them that are the same people that would buy Errol Spence and Terrence Crawford or whatever. But I don't know that it's exactly the same people. I think there are a lot of Jake Paul fans and in this case, a lot of MMA fans

that are buying the pay-per-views. Now, maybe some of those people would buy the highest-level boxing match. certainly Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis and Crawford Spence and all that. They might not be the same people who are watching Jermaine Ortiz against Lomachenko. You know, so I don't know. I understand what you're saying, and there has been a market created here. I just don't know that they're the same people buying those events.

So maybe this would have been. I would say this. Let me just add this, though, Keith. Like, I am an avid boxing scene reader. I check the site three or four times a day. But I found it interesting when, Showtime sent around. Mitch Abramson over at Showtime sent an email around

about the coverage of Jake Paul in the week leading up to that fight. And what you saw was the New York Times covering the fight, USA Today covering the fight, sports business journal covering the fight, ESPN on multiple levels covering the fight. It's reaching outside the traditional boxing lanes, which I think is important for boxing.

You want to feed the purists like you and I try to do with this podcast, with boxing scene, with articles, things like that. But you also want to try to tap into new fans. And that's something boxing has failed to do in the last couple of decades. And they've done a good job, you know, on the Showtime side of it, you know, and all the PR people associated with the Jake Paul events, they've done a good job, you know, spreading the message to mainstream sites.

You know, it's not often that boxing stories appear in the New York Times. And while that's important, I think for the way, I think the way for Jake Paul's existence in boxing to benefit boxing in the long term is to develop some actual boxing fans out of it. You know, that's the end game in some ways for Showtime. You hope that some of these people stick around and they want to watch, you know, Erickson Lubin against Sebastian Fondor and fights like that.

I don't have any tangible evidence that that's happening. I'm not saying it's not. But that, it really should be what they're, because they're not making a lot of money off of this. You know, Showtime or Fox or whoever is involved, in pay-per-view events, they don't make an enormous amount of money, as you well know, off of these pay-per-view events. They get a small percentage of the buys and all that, and they don't put up a guarantee and all,

you know, unless it's something like Mayweather Pacquiao, which is a once-in-a-generation or once-in-a-lif-lif-a-lif-lif-half-of-of-a-vend. But there's a reason why they're involved in it. And in this case, if we can attain some tangible evidence that Jake Paul's existence in boxing for three or four or five years, whatever it winds up being, creates even a couple thousand new boxing fans, well, we will have succeeded in what is an ever-shrinking

sphere here of boxing. We don't have, you know, boxing, and understandably so, because every time you want a big fight or you deal with all, I don't want to say mismatches, but fights that aren't as interesting, some of the mismatches, but, you know,

and then you get to the point where you should, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever, that Errol Spence should not be fighting Terrence Crawford either November 19th or February, whatever. And here we are with Terrence Crawford fighting David Abenici and Errol Spence fighting someone else. You know, and then, of course, it's neck and neck probably in terms of commercial appeal. The Ryan Garcia-Gervante Davis fight very well might not happen next because of this entanglement for pay-per-view distribution. At a certain point, if you're a fan of this sport, you just say, Jesus Christ, like, Like what, you know, now some of these people are stealing the events anyway,

and I don't really have much sympathy for them because you can't steal the events and in effect steal money out of your so-called favorite fighter's pockets and then complain when the fights don't get made. You can't have it both ways, obviously. But for the fans who pay for the fights and invest their time and money into this sport, well, they really make it difficult sometimes to remain invested in the sport in any way because you just because that's clearly what's happened. There were millions upon millions upon millions of boxing fans in the 1980s and then less

in the 90s, less in the early 2000, less than 2010s, and now less than ever now. And if you keep going in this direction, what is the financial viability of the sport? You won't have to worry about Jake Paul because, you know, that's going to be the least of your problems, you know? And, no, I find it funny to like, today, like, in today's, like, in today's, media landscape, sports rights are the most sought after entities out there. Like every time sports rights deals come up, whether it's college football, NFL, NBA, we've seen growth in NHL, MLS got a big deal from Apple.

People fight. Networks fight over the right to get these properties. As we go into 2023, it seems likely Fox is getting out of the business, NBC, has exited. You've got Showtime, still doing boxing at a high level. DeZone will still be around. ESPN will still be around. But it says something about the health of boxing, Keith, that it's not being fought over.

It's just like the property is not being fought over as much as other sports. Because as you point out, in the 80s, you had like Sugar Ray Leonard fought Hurons. What on a Wednesday? In Vegas and Caesar's Palace outside? I mean, like, it rivaled the popularity of the NBA and the NFL. It did.

In some cases, it beat it. It was more popular than the NBA. It was more. Yeah, the NBA was back in there like, you know, just getting posted. No, yeah, no, when the NBA changed forever, of course. But I hear you, Kristen. I mean, it's like, you know, we're never going to go back to the 30s, 40s, and 50s when it was when it was boxing in baseball.

I mean, that's not going to happen again. It's a niche sport. It's been marginalized. Totally understand that. But it really shouldn't be in the position that it's in now either. because people fighting for a living. And now, you know, the emergence of MMA has certainly impacted it in some ways because, you know, it's not boxing per se, but it is fighting.

And that will always appeal to a segment of society, a large segment of society. People like to see people beat the crap out of each other or try to beat the crap out of each other to varying degrees. People are attracted to that just, you know, as humans. I mean, so there will be a market for it. But the industry as a whole just has to do a better job of providing. Now, there was a time when some of the, you know, relatively recently when a lot of fights were happening. I mean, it's not all that long ago when we were getting most of the fights that we wanted to see. I mean, of course, in the case of Mayweather Pachia, it took six or seven years, but it could happen.

But, you know, you're starting to see some of the fights. And then just to have this point in time when it looks like we were not, certainly not next, we're not going to get Spence Crawford and Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia, which are two of the biggest fights you could make in boxing. And it's frustrating for the fans and understandably so. And, you know, hopefully it'll, hopefully the beginning of 2023 will be much more, uh, appetizing for fans than what looks like a, a largely barren end of 2022. Can you imagine if next year, we started the year off with like Garcia Tank in January,

three weeks later, Crawford Spence, a month after that, Fury Ussick, a month after that, Haney Lomachenko, sprinkled in between, you know, some of those B plus level fights that are very easy to make in boxing. All the problems that boxing has, they're fixable. They're self-inflicted wounds. That's what they are. You could easily start to push boxing back towards the mainstream. Boxing just chooses not to do it. Keith, good to catch up, man, and get some rest because I know you have a flight to Abu Dhabi tomorrow.

You're going to join me out there for Bevo Ramirez. I have a flight to Minneapolis. It's Wednesday. I think your flight will be a little bit shorter than mine. That's for sure. Keith, always good to catch up, man. Appreciate the time. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.