The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jake Paul’s Final Test

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Chris is joined by Keith Idec of BoxingScene.com to talk about Mauricio Lara and if anyone at 126 can beat him, what should we expect from Matias-Ponce, and should the WBC rank Jake Paul if he beats Tommy Fury. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Senior writer, boxing scene.com, originally scheduled to be in Minnesota for the Showtime televised card this weekend, but Keith not dedicated enough to find alternate modes of transportation after his flight had been canceled. Keith, I mean, I'm just saying, like, you could have drove, like that, you know, Jersey to Minnesota is what, like half a day? You could have a day. You could pull it off. Like, that could show some dedicated.

does cause, my friend? I've never been more pleased to get a notification from Delta that said the flight was canceled. It's like seriously, the low in Minneapolis tomorrow, I believe, is with the wind chill factor, is going to be minus 11, and they're going to get somewhere between 12 and 18 inches of snow by the time this is all done. So I'd be very happy to cover the fights from the comforts of home. You've been there a few times, I'm sure. I think Minneapolis is actually a pretty good place to hold fights. They do decent crowds.

The venue's okay. I think you just have to be wary of booking fights there in January and February when it's sub-zero every single day. You have to almost expect stuff like this to happen. Yeah, I've been there, I think, three times now in a relatively short amount of time. But it's a nice city, though. If you're there at the right time, I was there in June last year. I mean, the ballpark's awesome.

If you're a baseball fan, and there's a lot of stuff to do culturally downtown and everything. It's a good place. But like you said, the weather's so brutal for those three or four months of the year. But they're used to it. You know, they have all those indoor walkways. You don't have to go outside, that kind of stuff. But, man, that would have been treacherous trying to go from hotel to hotel with all this, like, frozen snow on the ground and everything. That would have been terrible.

So, yeah. But they do do, to your point, Chris, they do well at the venue. I mean, the fans respond to boxing. Jamal James is fighting on Saturday night, which is why they went there initially to begin with, I think. Jamal James fought at the Armory several times. You know, and the fans, and they, you know, it's set up where fans can kind of just stand in the kind of alleyways along the sides. I'm probably not describing it accurately, but it's an interesting place. And fans, it's just kind of a festive atmosphere and they do pretty well.

I mean, you know, it holds five, six thousand people or something like that. And they do pretty well. No, I like it. I think BBC's onto something with bringing fights there. Just preferably in the months of spring. and summer and fall and not the dead of winter. We're going to talk about that card this weekend. We're also going to talk about the Jake Paul Tommy Fury fight scheduled for Sunday,

a little bit of news or potential news involving Gnadi Golobkin. But Keith, I first want to look back at what we saw last weekend in 126 pound division. Maricio Lara, who has become something of a Brit killer over in the UK, has one win over Josh Warrington now has another win and a title after beating Lee Wood this past weekend. I thought Lee Wood, Keith was doing great for the better part of seven rounds. I thought he was winning the fight, but Maricio O'Lara just hits hard. And in that seventh round, he clip Wood with an brutal left hook that put Wood down and wood out. Start here.

What did you think of the fight and the finish by Maricio O'Lara? Yeah, he's got that ultimate equalizer, Chris, as you said, that counter left hook that he hit him with in the exchange, just abruptly ended the fight. You know, there were people, of course, on social media, everyone's got an opinion, and I saw a lot of people saying that Lee Wood should have been able to continue. I don't know.

I mean, he looked like, you know, he was pretty out of it, and Lara only had, he had less than 10 seconds probably, but that's enough time to really unload some damaging punches, and I think he probably would have finished him off because Wood didn't even know where he was. I think Ben Davison made the right call, particularly he's got a rematch clause, you know, live to fight another day. I mean, he was just caught with a perfect shot. But Lee Wood, as you said, was doing very well, Chris.

He was ahead on all three scorecards. And he had some trouble in the opening two rounds. And in the second round, you know, Lara hit him with the right hand toward the end of the round that wobbled him a little bit. But that's what happens when you're in there with a dangerous puncher. And, man, credit to Mauricio Lara. I mean, he doesn't care. You know, you want me to go to Josh Warrington's hometown? no problem. I'll go knock him out. You want me to go to, well, he knocked him out in London and

fought him in his hometown after that, but you go to his home country. You know, you want me to fight Lee Wood and Nottingham, no problem. I'll go knock him out too. And the kids, you know, he's a young guy, he's 24, I believe, and kudos to him for just being willing to take those types of assignments. Now he's getting paid very well, so he's not going to make that kind of money staying in Mexico and fighting. So there's that factor that makes it make a lot of sense for him. But he's kind of found a home away from home here because British boxing fans appreciate guys who bring it like that. I'm not saying he's going to sell out arenas by himself, but they keep bringing him back there. People are going to want to see him. So he's created this kind of niche market for himself

where he can keep. He's going to go back there and fight Lee. At least Lee Wood, maybe he'll fight Warrington again and the winner will fight Lee Wood. Based on what I saw in his first fight against Warrington. I don't see Warrington being able to beat him. So if they do fight for a third time, I would expect him to move forward into the Lee Wood rematch. And the kid's going to make a lot of money. So good for him. Yeah, on the stoppage, like most people, in the moment, I was a little surprised. There was only 10 seconds left. Lee Wood did make it to his feet. I thought Davidson would give him more of an opportunity. But Davidson knows his fighter. And in the aftermath, like, you could see in the corner that Lee Wood wasn't right.

He was doing what most fighters do, protesting, saying, I can go, I could go. But you could see in his eyes, he wasn't right. Quite frankly, Keith, in the post-fight interview, several minutes later, he still didn't look right. So even if he had made it out of the final 10 seconds of that round, which is no guarantee, the next round, I don't think he would have been fully recovered. And that could have led to something disastrous. You mentioned the rematch clause. it's it was a lived to fight another day moment, you know, for Ben Davis and Lee Wood. And I do think

it was, uh, the right decision. Um, I can see, you know, a third fight with Warrington materializing, you know, that was pretty gross that, you know, Lara spit at Warrington after the fight. There's no need for, for that. There's enough animosity between those two guys to have, to not have that. But if I'm Josh Warrington, I know he's meant, a tough guy, that's not a fight I'd be running towards, man. Like, Josh Warrington has looked a little chiny in recent fights. He lost his last fight. You know, he goes in against Baricio Lara.

I think something worse happens to him than happened to him the first time that those two guys fall. When he took just a brutal beating that might have changed the course of his career, there's money in it, there's a title in it. But if I'm Josh Warrington, I might think twice about about doing that with Lee Wood. because I think that would be the end of Josh Warrington, Keith. I don't think he comes back from a third fight against Maricio Lara. That very well could be true, Chris, but I'm sure he's looking at it like, well, it's another, he just lost another title fight to Luis Lopez.

This would give him another title opportunity right away. And the Louis Lopez fight was close. I think he lost a split decision. But, you know, he looks at it like he gets another title shot in his hometown, the whole event's built around him. these guys are all delusional for the most part chris they always think they're going to win it's never too much it's never an assignment too big or too dangerous so i would probably expect josh warring to and to embrace it because how else is he going to make that kind of money how is he going to have an entire event a built around a big event built around him in his hometown and have another title opportunity as i think

he's you know 32 or so something like that you know he's getting toward the back end of his career here um so he probably would pounce on it and like you said probably turns out very similarly to their first fight, but these guys, it's never enough for the most part. I mean, very few of them walk away kind of with the same idea about where they are in their careers that those of us on the outside looking in see it. I do like a rematch with Wood, though. You know, Wood was doing well in that fight. He was landing good power shots. It looked like at times that Laura was fatigued during that fight. I thought Wood's game plan was excellent, you know, and maybe in a rematch, he doesn't get cut

early on, which I think changed a few things for him, especially in that second round, got a little too over-eager in that second round and paid the price for it. I think he can win a rematch. He's got to be a little more careful and not expose himself in the way he did for that counter shop, but I do like the idea of a wood rematch. If Laura can't get either one of those fights right away, he's kind of a perfect fit for that Canello undercard in May. Like, if he can come back quickly, I mean, he can fight in Mexico on Canelo's undercard, have kind of a showcase type of fight before going into another fight

against either Wood or Warrington over the summer. But he has established himself as one of, if not the top guy, in a hundred and 26 pound division. Sticking with the UK, Keith, we had some news involving

Connor Ben, who has been talking a lot about his pending exoneration and now has a little bit of support to back it up. The WBC has cleared Connor Ben of wrongdoing, at least as far as their rankings go, buying into the argument to boil it down, not to make a pun there, but Connor Ben ate too many eggs. And that was what contributed to the positive clomophine test. Now, this has been criticized to say the least by some in the sports science community.

I saw Victor Conti make some public statements basically calling it ludicrous that the WBC would come to this conclusion. Ultimately, Keith, as you know, what the WBC says has no weight whatsoever. They can reintroduce Connor Ben into their welterweight rankings, but he can't fight unless he's cleared by the British Boxing Board of Control to fight the UK or is licensed by a major commission in the U.S. or, or, elsewhere. So I guess your reaction to the WBC clearing Connor Ben and buying into that 270-page document that he allegedly sent over to them. Well, they sure gave him plenty of time to get his story straight. I'll say that because he failed this test in July. For some reason,

in the letter that the WBC released, they said their investigative unit, whatever that is. couldn't get to it until January. I'm not really sure why that would be either. Can you just picture, by the way, can you just picture Maricio Suleiman like in a law and order theme like, dun-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, it's like their investigative unit? What is that? That's what it says.

I don't remember exactly what it was called, but it was referred to in the letter that they sent out. Chris, as it relates to the WBC's credibility regarding PED-D. testing, it was just destroyed beyond recognition based on what they did with the Oscar Valdez situation. I don't take anything they say related to PED testing seriously anymore. I don't know how anyone could. Look, what is the purpose of having this clean boxing program, which was a good idea when it was, you know, they're in business with VATA, which is a very respected agency that seemingly trying to do the right thing. And now every time at least a prominent fighter fails a test,

they allow the fighter to excuse his way out of it. What is the purpose of the testing? But like you said, Chris, it really is irrelevant because until licensing agencies clear him, in this case, the British Boxing Board of Control, it doesn't matter. He's not going to be licensed to fight anywhere where he wants to fight. I mean, obviously, he will make the most money for his fights.

in the UK. And the British Boxing Board of Control said, oh, that's nice. WBC, thanks for chiming but we don't really care what you're saying, because until he proves it to UK anti-doping, it doesn't matter to us. So he will probably go fight in the Middle East, where presumably he can do whatever he wants. But he's not going to fight in the UK. And I don't know if there's ever any call for him to fight in the U.S., but he certainly would have similar problems here getting licensed. So all it really did for the WBC is make itself seem even more ridiculous as it relates to PED testing, which is almost unfathomable because they really embarrassed themselves with the Oscar Valdez situation. I didn't think they could get worse based on, and Oscar Valdez fought. And there were some loopholes that were exploited based on what's in the regulations for being licensed and for what's being, you know,

for being sanctioned to fight for a title. But again, I just don't understand the point of having this clean boxing program when you just ignore the findings. It's stupid. It is. Putting the WBC's decision aside, do you understand why that Connor Ben and Eddie Hearn wanted this ruling from the WBC? Because like we said, it is kind of a toothless ruling.

Like, do they almost want just kind of a minor victory in all this to at least be able to publicly claim that they have been exonerated, even though everybody knows that you aren't truly exonerated until the Board of Control rules in your favor, the state of Nevada rules in your favor, the state of New York rules in your favor, any of these major commissions that Connor Ben would like to be licensed by? I just never understood why, you know, Eddie Herman would come out and say, well, this was under the WBC's jurisdiction. Well, not really, right? Like the WBC is just a sanctioning body. The British Boxing Board of Control is the body that's in charge of all this. I never quite understood why, you know, the WBC was the first stop on the Connor Ben attempted redemption tour. The only thing that this affords, the only thing that the WBC ruling affords Connor Ben is that he now can be ranked in the top 15 in their

welterweight rankings, I guess, right? Who cares? I mean, the WBO once ranked a deceased person. What does it matter? Very true. They ranked in the top 15. Who cares?

So, I can't imagine that matter. Well, listen, Eddie, you know, as a promoter, has to maintain a good relationship with all the sanctioning bodies because they're going to be of use to you at some point with other fighters. So, you know, I guess they have to commend the WBC publicly for doing what they did. But again, it doesn't matter until the British Boxing Board of Control,

the most pertinent organization involved in this at this point clears him. Who cares? But again, Chris, he can go fight in Dubai or Saudi Arabia or somewhere else where they basically have a commission that was just formed in the last few years and they'll just allow, you know, does it pay a whole bunch. I don't know what the benefit of bringing Connor Ben to Dubai is. Is there going to be some line of people to see Connor Ben fight in Dubai? I don't know.

But they seem to be spending a lot of money on other events that I don't know why they, you know, that doesn't really seem all that sensible, but they print money over there. So they don't really get that either. Well, bottom line is you're not going to be able to do a big domestic fight with Connor Ben anytime soon. Like, you're just not. Like the,

and the UBank fight's gone. now anyway. Gone. Gone. Even if you bank were able to win a rematch against Liam Smith, you could conceivably piece that back together in terms of public interest. But, you know, I think, and a lot of people in boxing think that whenever Conner Ben faces the British Boxing Board and submits his evidence, he's going to face some

kind of suspension. And it's not going to lead to him immediately getting reinstated or licensed by the British Boxing Board of Control. By the way, last thing on Connor Ben, I didn't know Domino's pizza was that savage. Did you see that tweet from Domino's Pizza UK? It was a tweet that they put out calling this new pizza, the Connor Ben special, and it was a cheese pizza with egg on it. They put eggs on the pizza.

Savage burn by Domino's Pizza UK. And Connor Ben replied and he said, I prefer pizza hunt. There is a pizza war going on in the UK, Keith, involving Connor. Ben. First of all, I would like to know why Chris Manix is following the Domino's UK. I wasn't. It just popped on my timeline. I didn't even know they had Domino's pizza in the UK. So, you know, yeah, clever, I suppose. Yeah. Savage Burned by Domino's UK against Scott or Ben. That was wild. Unbelievable. All right. Jake Paul is back this weekend. Finally, getting in the ring against Tommy Theory. This is a fight that's been scheduled now three times. Tommy has backed out of it twice for

various reasons. First due to injury, second due to the inability to get cleared to fly into the U.S. This is being billed Keith as Jake Paul's first test against a real boxer. Tommy Fury officially 8-0 as a professional boxer, though, if you take a deeper look at his resume, you can see it's a very, very thin one for a professional boxer. Let me ask you this. What if, anything, do you think Jake Paul would prove with the win over Tommy Fury? Chris, the combined records of Tommy Fury's eight opponents is 34, 176, and 5. So you could certainly argue that fighting Tyron Woodley or Anderson Silva was more impressive than fighting Tommy Fury. Now, he's Tyson Fury's brother, but he only had 12 amateur football.

fights. The pitiful combined record of his professional opponents is embarrassing. And if you really look at it, he has eight professional fights. He's eight and O with four knockouts. Anderson Silva, who has spent most of his life as an MMA, you know, an elite level MMA fighter, has five professional boxing matches. So what is really the difference between Anderson Silva and Tommy Fury other than that Anderson Silva is better? He's already fought someone better than Tom Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury is a nice guy, man. I don't, it's easy to deal with. It seems like a pleasant person and all that. He's clearly lived off his brother's name and fame and legacy and all that. He's not at Love Island. Yeah. And he's famous in the UK and all that. And I don't blame him.

He's just exploiting the opportunity. I mean, he's making what I was told. He was making $5 million for this fight, which is, that that's accurate. That's nuts. But again, these Saudis are just printing money. they bring this big event over there. Jake Paul, to his credit, has said this himself. He said, everyone is fixated on this quote-unquote real boxer theme. I've already fought someone who's better than him and beat him in his last fight. I thought the fight was a little closer than the scorecards had it, but he did knock Anderson Silva down.

And Anderson Silva, to Tommy Fury's point, is more than twice his age. He's 47 years old. You know, so, but he probably has, you know, he beat. Look, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., of course, is not the gold standard for professional boxers. He doesn't prepare properly. He has, you know, he has really irresponsibly gone about most of his career. But he did beat him very convincingly, and there's no way, no fighter on Tommy Fury's record, that is anywhere near as good as Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., even at this age and even at 60% of himself.

So he's already beaten someone better than Tommy Fury. So this whole real boxer play, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And Jake Paul himself has said that. But if these people are willing to pay him this amount of money to see a fight that, frankly, I don't see how Jake Paul loses. Congratulations to them. I agree with everything that you said there. Tommy Fury is a celebrity, certainly in a celebrity.

certainly in the UK, but, you know, I mentioned the resume, just watch his fights. And I've watched a handful of them over the years. Like, he doesn't possess a fraction of the skill that his half-brother does. What interests me most about this fight, Keith, is that the Fury family is at least publicly putting an enormous amount of pressure on Tommy Fury. Like Tyson has basically said you have to drop the family name if you lose the Jake Ball. You know, dad is convinced that Tommy's going to go out and flasked. and Jake. Tommy doesn't knock guys out.

Like he's got what four knockouts on his resume and he hasn't fought, you know, these world beaters with great chins. I'm honestly, because I think Jake's going to win. I don't know how he wins, whether it's a decision or he scores a knockout. I think Jake's going to win. But like I'm more interested in the aftermath. Like, was this all just bluster or is Tommy Fury going to get like disowned by his family if he can't beat Jake Paul?

I think that's the most interesting thing to me. Chris, if Jake Paul doesn't knock him out, John Fury might. You wouldn't want to go back to the corner or go back on the flight home or whatever and have to face him. I mean, that guy is holy, you know. He's all in. That's not a stable dude. And they've said some of this stuff, I'm sure, in part because they, you know, believe that he should win, I guess. But Tyson Fury is no dummy.

I mean, he understands the level his brother is at. and he has publicly commended Jake Paul for his development. Now, he's not fighting, quote, unquote, real boxers and all that. But Jake Paul has shown a lot of improvement from the time he turned pro three years ago until now. And you can't really knock the hustle. I mean, if people are, it's a small segment of people, but if people are willing to pay for this on pay-per-view and pack these arenas, he's going to continue doing it, just like he's insistent on rescheduling this Tommy Fury fight for the third time,

because there seemed to be, for whatever reason, public demand for it in the UK more so. But among Jake Paul's fan base, they wanted to see this. So they're seeing it. Yeah. Yeah, Jake's smart about that. He knows that there's one opportunity here to fight and beat Tommy Theory and make a whole boatload of money off it. And even as frustrating as probably has been to have the previous two fights rescheduled and slow the momentum of his career, it's smart.

that he went out and rescheduled this. And the one thing I'd say about both of these guys, I mean, I've been in Jake Paul's camp. I know he takes his career seriously. Like he's limited skill-wise as a fighter, but he's working as hard as humanly possible. You know, he's bringing in the right people to work with him and to teach him certain things.

I don't know if I can say the same about Tommy Fury, who, what, his last fight, didn't he miss weight by like eight pounds, you know, initially? Like, it was, you know, that's not a sign of a guy that is treating boxing with the gravity that it needs to be treated with. So I think Jake is a favor in this fight. And I'm curious to see the fallout. What happens with, you know, Fury's corner? What does Tyson say afterwards if Tommy Fury winds up on the losing end? A subplot of this, Keith, is that the WBC has said if Jake Paul wins, it will give him a world ranking at

cruiserweight. Now, I had this conversation last week with Sergio Amoro, a former WBC junior middleweight champion, and he was fairly outraged by it, you know, as most fighters would be. What do you make of this? I mean, I look at this as being the WBC just desperately trying to get into the Jake Paul business, but you also do have a cruiserweight title fight on the undercard with Junior Macabu going up against Badu Jack. I don't know if Jake has any interest in fighting for a cruiserweight title because quite frankly there's not as much money in a cruiser way title fight as there is a Nate Diaz fight or a KSI fight. But what did you make of the WBC saying with only what would be seven professional fights and only a couple against guys with real

boxing resumes? If you want to call it that, they will give him a cruiser way ranking. Well, in the release, and it seemed like Maricio Suleiman was trying to set a record for saying assinine things in a finite amount of time, I guess. But he didn't specify how he would be ranked because the WPC for some reason ranks 40 fighters per division, whereas most of the other, I think all of the other ones stop at 15 because you have to be in the top 15 to qualify for a title shot. So if you're ranked 34th, who really cares? What is the purpose of doing it, I guess? I'm sure they charge the fighters in some way. They get something out of it. But so if let's just say, Jake Paul knocks out Tommy Fury and he pops up at number 39 in the next set of WBC rankings for cruiserweights.

It doesn't really matter because he can't fight for a title. Now, if he pops up at 15, then it's a real issue because if you go look at their rankings, like the number 15 in the most recent WBC rankings, the number 15 contender is Brandon Glenn, who just lost a very close fight. It's his only loss. you know, he's a legitimate cruiser way contender. So let's just say Jake Paul replaced him in the rankings. If I were Brandon, Brandon, Glenn, I'd be furious because, you know, he doesn't belong there.

And if you're taking the spot of a guy who potentially could get a title fight when, let's just say, the winner of Macaboo and Baddue Jack is looking for an optional defense or something, and you're eliminated from that mix because Jake Paul is in the rankings. And the only quote unquote real boxer that he has fought is Tommy Fury. I mean, you should be outraged. But again, if he is only ranked in the top 40, it doesn't matter. He can't fight for a title. But I don't know if Mauricio Suleiman did that intentionally, leaving it vague the way that they did in the announcement that they sent out.

But he didn't specify. And there's a huge difference between being ranked in the top 15 and being ranked in the top 40, anywhere from 16 through 40, no one's paying attention to that anyway, and it doesn't really help you get a title shot. So if they do it, well, it's kind of goofy and shouldn't happen, but it's not really all that damaging for the guys who otherwise,

if he's ranked in the top 15, would be cheated out of a potential title shot, I guess. Yeah, I get the feeling that the WBC would like to rank him higher than he did. deserves. Like, there's no other reason to rank him other than to potentially set him up with a shot at the Cruiserweight title, right? Like, isn't that the end game? Yeah, no, you got to follow the money, right? Chris? Yeah. Of course, and it's not a coincidence that Badu Jack and. No. We're fighting on the undercard. Um, it would be really shameful even for boxing if Jake Paul were to get a title fight. In a quiet moment, Jake Paul would tell you that if he got a title.

Not even quiet. Like he doesn't look like he he puts like a world title thing as his end game. Like he'd love to fight for a world title his very last possible fight. But Jake Paul is about the big fights and the big money at this point. And like even if it, even if he got a shot at Junior Macabu or Badu Jack for a world title. Like genuinely, Keith. Like how much interest do you think there would be in a Paul Macaboo fight in the U.S.? Like it would be intriguing to see Jake Paul fight for a.

legitimate world title. But there's far more interest in Nate Diaz, this far more interest in KSI. There's probably five or six guys that would generate more interest with Jake Paul than a Cruiserweight title fight at this point. Well, Macabu already fought pretty close to Cleveland last year. So this was all set up, develop his fan base in that area. Maccabu's running around with that. Maccabu's trying to hold on to that title till something crazy happens. It was Canelo a couple of years ago, going to move up to Cruiserweight. and fight for a title. Now he's on the Jake Paul undercard against Badu Jack.

Yeah, well, Badu Jack didn't look particularly good in his last fight. He won. But, you know, Macabu's slipping a little bit too, so maybe he pulls this off. And then Badu Jack is a known name. You know, he's a former world champion in two divisions. So that would be making a third division. I don't know. They could do it in the Middle East.

I mean, he's Muslim. He lives, I believe. Badu Jack lives in Dubai now, so they could sell it as an event over there and that way. It would just be, I mean, again, Chris, just so shameful for boxing if Jake Paul, he gets a title shot in his next fight. One of the worst things that's happened in recent memory and that's saying a lot, because he just doesn't deserve it. He can go, you know, fight Nate Diaz or whomever else and make a lot of money. and it's, you know, he's entitled to do that. But to fight for a world title after what he's done over a seven-fight period

would be pretty crazy. Yeah, I agree. And I quite frankly think Jake Paul would agree as well. All right, let's talk about the fight that you were supposed to be at this weekend, but we'll be covering for boxing scene remotely. 140-pound fight, Matias versus Ponce. This has war written all over teeth. You got two guys that are just come forward, heavy-handed kind of guys.

It might not be the most technically, most technical fight that's out there. But it feels like this has Fight of the Year contender kind of written all over it. What are you expecting in this matchup? You know, I spoke to both guys at length, Chris, and they said, both of them said the same thing. They expect a war. They expected, I think the words that Ponce used, which were translated to me, was going to be a high voltage affair or the fans are not going to be disappointed. I think they both expect that type of knockdown, dragout fight.

You know, Subrio Matias is a guy who, you know, just comes forward. He's a huge puncher. Every fight that he has won as a professional has been won by knockout. He avenged his only loss to Petros Anagnan by just beating him down in their rematch last January. It was a competitive fight for much of it, but then he started beating him up and he knocked down Anonian for the first time in Anon's career and became the first opponent to stop him. He's a huge puncher. He comes to fight.

You know, not much for defense. Doesn't have the greatest jab, you know, but he's a huge puncher. Conce, you know, he looked great in that Lewis Ritson fight. That's the biggest fight of his career. He went to Louis Ritson's hometown, beat him up pretty badly, especially to the body, knocked him down three times in the 10th round and won that fight by TKO. And that's how he became the mandatory challenge. for Josh Taylor's IBF title, which Taylor later gave up, and then the IBF ordered him to fight

for this vacant title. I think it's going to be a great fight. And it's under the radar because neither guy is exactly a household name, even among boxing fans. But people are well aware of Matias because he's been fighting on PBC cards in recent years. And he's Puerto Rican. And it's kind of surprising that he hasn't become bigger because, you know, the Puerto Ricans embrace, you know, all of their fighters and this guy can really, you know, you can really crack and he knocks people out. You would think he would be a bigger name than he is now,

but maybe winning this title and getting into a bigger fight and can do that for his career. But Ponce is going to be a difficult. He's a, I think Matias is a four to one favorite, and he'd have to favor him to win the fight based on what he's done. Ponce hasn't fought the highest level of opposition, but again,

that Lewis Ritson fight, and I'm not saying Ritson's as good as Matthias, certainly not the puncher that Mattias is, but to go to his hometown and do that to him was impressive. And that's been his toughest test to date. This is kind of in neutral territory. Neither of them has anything to do with Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is the hometown of Jamal James who's fighting in the co-feature.

But I just think it's going to be an excellent fight. And that'd be great. Back-to-back weeks coming off of the Neri Holnesean fight, and of course the Lee Wood, the dramatic ending to the Lower Lee Wood fight. it would be good to build some momentum here and, you know, somewhat lower profile fights, but fights that fans will enjoy. That's a great fight. And to your point, in terms of bigger fights in the future, a lot at stake.

I mean, 140 is poised to become kind of a glamour division in boxing with the names that are in there already right now, whether it's Josh Taylor, Teifima Lopez, Regis Progray, of course, a title holder. But also with 135 pounds, Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia, they figured to be moving up. before the end of the year. And if you can get one of those belts, the IBF belt, in this case, that's currency, Keith. That's like, you know, half a million dollar payday, million dollar payday guaranteed in probably your next fight, whether it's a unification fight, or you're fighting against

one of those top guys like a Haney or a Ryan Garcia. So, you know, financially, if it is a lot of stake. I mean, both these guys want to become title holders, but I would think the money is in the future money is even more important at this point. Yeah, as much as we, you know, criticize there being four, four and then some, I guess five,

if you recognize the W, the IBO, you know, there are too many titles, but these titles are very valuable to the fighters because they'll make much more money by defense. Even if Subaru Matias loses, you say he wins on Saturday night,

and he goes and defends the title against, you know, a higher profile, but whoever it might be, he's going to make a lot of money. So these titles are very valuable to the guys. And it's going to be a fun fight, like I said, Kristen. I think, you know, you get some bang for your buck on Saturday night.

Well, except Regis Progray. It was kind of like holding his title up going like, does anybody want a title shot? Well, I don't know if I'd want to fight Regis Progray either. If there were a path to a title, like if you're Tiafimo Lopez, and I'm not saying he couldn't beat Regis Progray, but, you know, there's been some slippage in Teofimo and his last fight he didn't look particularly good. But I would rather fight Josh Taylor and Lopez as well. willing to go over to the UK and do it, you know, even to Glasgow. So I've been told that that's possible that that fight would be in the U.S. also.

But whatever the case, if you're him, that's the higher profile fight. And then maybe he would fight Regis Progray after that in a title unification fight. But, you know, Progray is one of those, I don't know. It's not that there's no reward because he has one of the titles. And people obviously know who Regis Progray is. But that's a tough fight, man. I mean, look what he just did to Jose Zepeda, who had no one had. Zepeda had been knocked down multiple times by Ivan Barancik,

but he got up and knocked him cold to win the fight. But no one had done that to Pesipeda. So, you know, Robre is still somewhat in the prime of his career. I believe he's 33. And it's going to be tough to get people to sign up to fight him, particularly when he's not with, you know, if he were with top rank in his fights on ESPN, you're getting this great exposure.

Or if he was with PBC and the fights are on Showtime, whatever the case might be, he's not even really affiliated with a promoter that has a, TV deal in the U.S. And that last fight was an independent pay-per-view. You know, so unless someone's putting up a decent amount of money for you to go fight him, people are going to steer clear of him. Yeah, and not to make this about program, but I can understand his frustration.

Like, if he came within like what, a point, two points of beating Josh Taylor a few years ago, he wins that fight. You know, he's on the path to undisputed, probably would be undisputed at this point. And a marquee guy with multiple options. in terms of promoters and networks. Instead, he loses that fight in a close way and has been kind of in the boxing wilderness ever since. He gets the world title shot. He wins a world title, and now he's still looking for something. I mean, I'd love to see a Jack Catterall fight get put together. That fight makes some sense. You could do it over in the UK. Caterall has earned an

opportunity at a world title shot in the aftermath of the Taylor fight and all the postponements for that. I don't know that it's doable. I know that they've explored it internally. we'll see if the money is there for it. But that's a fight I'd love to see put together over in the UK. It makes a good amount of sense. Last thing for you, Keith, it seems like every week, two weeks we wonder about the future of Gennady Gailofkin. It was a couple of weeks ago. He vacated his IBF title at 160 pounds.

It sure sounds like or seems like that his WBLBA belt is going to go the same way. there is going to be at some point a purse bid calls for a purse bid for a fight against Erislandi Lara, who is the secondary title holder. I don't think Golofkin would shy away from that fight, but you better pay him for that fight, and I don't think the money is out there for a showdown with Erislandi Lara. Like, what's your read on Golofkin's future? I mean, I talked about this with other people, you know, before we vacated the IBF title. Now here we are, and we could head into March with Golofkin.

either about to be or being a non-title holder? You know, he's in a weird position, Chris, because he's accustomed to making X amount of money because frankly, the zone has overpaid him throughout his partnership with the company. They really wanted the third Canelo fight, and they did get it. You know, it took four years or so for it to finally happen,

but it did happen. And he's accustomed to making huge purses, but those huge purses, especially since the company that he's done all this business with and made the most money with, he's basically said, I don't want to work with them anymore. So I don't know where he goes from here because there's no one else going to fund these fights. I mean, let's just say he were to, now as he gives away these middleweight titles, the fight, let's just say with Charlo, if he were to fight Charlo, which I don't foresee happening. But if he were, if he gives up all of these middleweight titles and it's not a unification fight,

he becomes less attractive to Charlo. And then it's just, you know, is Al Heyman going to guarantee, he wouldn't guarantee money to Terrence Crawford to fight Aral Spence. He's going to guarantee money to a 41-year-old man who, you know, what would the purpose of that be? He's not his guy, just like Terrence Crawford wasn't his guy. So he's not going to do it. ESPN certainly is not going to guarantee get out of Golovkin,

enormous amounts of money. And then you would have to hope that if you're him, that some situation arises like the Marauda situation where he went to Japan and he was paid very well to go to go fight in a unification fight in Japan and he was well compensated. But I think all of those avenues have already been explored and exploited. And, you know, he's either going to have to lower his asking price for these fights or retire. Because I don't, you know, from a pride standpoint, he's going to want to be paid a certain amount. And he thinks he's worth a certain amount, which is fine. But if there's no one willing to fund it,

well, what are you, what is anyone supposed to do? Eventually he's going to have to, he can't hold the title's hostage, which they're not allowing him to do because he already gave up the IBF title. And it looks like he may be on his way to giving up the WBA title. So then does he fight a 68 pounder? He just fought 168 pounds and, of course, lost to Canelo. But does he go up to 68 for a big fight? I guess, is it worth it to him, too? Because I'm assuming he's done well with his money. He's made a lot of money over the last 10 years or so. So he doesn't really need to fight. So maybe he just ultimately decides this isn't worth it. I don't want to fight, you know, whoever's ranked high in the ratings,

Zarafa or Falcow or whoever, and he just decides to call today. I could see that happening. Yeah, it's funny. And I'm sure you make the same phone calls. But every time I talk to people in Golofkin's orbit and ask them what the plan is, there isn't one. Like there's no, they're unable to articulate what, the end game is in the first half of this year for Gennati Gailofkin.

And I keep harkening back on kind of how enthusiastic Gailovkin was after the Canelo loss about returning to 160 and defending his titles. He seemed really adamant at the time that his career was going to continue. And I don't see Gannadi Gailovkin as being the kind of guy that wants to go out with a loss, especially not one to his arch rival in Canelo Alvarez. But I'm with you. There's got to be a course correction at some point. to accept that the landscape has changed,

that the guarantees are not going to be there. That if he wants to fight in a marketable fight, he's going to have to take less or no guarantee against Jamal Charlo, less or no guarantee against Jaime Mungia. I mean, there's no, like, you're not going to make big money to go fight Liam Smith in the UK. The Japanese Avenue is closed. Like, there just isn't, you know,

like Eddie Herne's not putting him in the Middle East to make, you know, big dough. Like, there's just not, the options aren't there. And, you know, he seemed so proud, justifiably, of still being a unified world champion at middleweight at 40 years old. And now he's on the cusp of losing both those titles. It just feels like this has been, either there was some delusion, you know, in team Golofkin after the Canelo fight or, you know, they're just now coming to the realization that this, this kind of money, you know, just isn't out there.

I mean, I think a Charlo fight makes some sense. But to your point, like, Al Heyman's not going to guarantee him real money to fight for Charlo's middleweight title. On that point, Keith, Charlo is supposedly coming back, you know, in June. It'll be two years off. I mean, are you buying Jamal Charlo coming back at 160? And, you know, what's his pathway to relevancy again? Well, he's supposed to come back in June and I would expect it to be in Houston.

on Showtime, he's going to fight, I think, Brissa. The type of opponent he's going to fight is anyone's guess, because it's not going to be someone who they think has any chance of beating him. I wouldn't expect that to happen. But it goes back to some of what I was referring to earlier. You can't allow these guys, whatever's going on in their personal lives or physically with injuries and everything. You cannot allow these guys to hold these titles hostage.

for years on end. He has not fought in almost two years. When he does fight in June, it's going to be almost exactly two years since the previous time that he fought, when he did not look particularly great against Juan Macias Montiel, who Carlos Saddamas later destroyed. Carlos Adamas is the mandatory, he's the interim champion, the mandatory for Charles title. He's certainly not going to fight Carlos Adamas in June. And he might not want to fight Carlos Adamas at all. If that's the case that he's well within his right to do that, but then vacate the title and move up or do whatever you want to do, but give Carlos Sadamus his opportunity to be the full champion because you can't, it's similar to what's

going on with Spence. I'll go off on a tangent here, but Spence is holding these welterweight titles hostage. You couldn't figure out the Crawford fight. Okay, you tried. It seems pretty much now like it just might not happen. He shouldn't be allowed to hold the IBF, WBA, and, and, you know, and, and WBC titles and fight Keith Thurman in 154-pound fight, that's ridiculous. It just shouldn't be. So, you know, if their activity level is once a year or once every two years or whatever it might be, the rest of boxing shouldn't be held hostage or the rest of the fighters in their divisions and their careers should not be held back for those long, long periods of time.

And the same applies to Golovkin. If you can't figure out, you know, go figure out how you're going to maximize your dollars in your next fight, that, okay, your business, you can do what you want. You can't hold the titles, too. Yeah, and I think in this case, the sanctioning bodies that held his titles have done the right thing, right? The IBF has ordered a mandatory fight, Golofkin elected not to go through with it. That belt is gone. The WBA at some point is going to order the Lara fight.

That belt likely to go away. So in those cases, I would praise, rare praise for the sanctioning bodies for doing the right thing. But the WBC who is, I think the title of this episode should be the WBC sucks, like because of all that they've, all the things they've done that we're beating up on them for. But like the WBC, like if Charlo wants to come back, great. He wants to defend his title, great. It should have to be against Carlos Adamas. The WBC, speaking of their investigative unit,

they said they were going to investigate what's going on with Charlo back in November. Like it's been three months. Charlo says it's going to come back. Yeah, there's nothing really to investigate. Look, the guy, it's been, you know, other people, Progray, who was close to Charlie into the public sphere. You know, he's had some personal. personal issues, you know, and he's dealing with those. He kind of alluded to it in an Instagram post a few weeks ago.

And I understand, you know, people go through tough situations in their lives and he was just not in the right frame of mind to fight. Of course, you know, get yourself together and get back into camp. And he, again, he can do that. I mean, he's well within his right to do that. But not by holding the title hostage at the same time. He just shouldn't be allowed to do that, especially if he's going to move up anyway. And from his perspective, why give the WBC, no one cares whether you're the WBC middleweight champion or not, because you're not fighting the people in the middleweight division that people want to see you fight. Not saying that's all necessarily his fault because he tried to fight Mongolia last year. And we all have been through that, why that fell apart. So he's tried to fight some guys.

But if he's not going to fight opponents who people will be interested in, why does it really matter if he's the WBC middleweight champion? Who cares? so just give up the title and save yourself some money. You have kids to put through college at some point. Why give the WBC 3% of a seven-figure purse just because? Yeah, look. What about it?

Sorry I interrupted you, but one thing I meant to mention during this Golovkin thing, you know who's the number two ranked middleweight contender by the WBA? Oh, give it to me. Sergio Martinez. I love the WBA. Martinez is 48 years old. And if there is someone in Argentina with a lot of money who wants to waste it,

maybe they could make Sergio Martinez against Gennady Golovkin and Buenos Aires. 10 years after Lou DeBella said absolutely not, Sergio Martinez against Gennady Golofkin, maybe they would make it. I love, if you ever want to have some fun and you're a boxing fan, check out the WBA's monthly rankings. I remember doing this when when Alexis Rocha was going to fight George Ashy

and Ashy was the late replacement for Rocha. I started thinking like, who is Ashy? Like I'm doing my research on him. And I look at the WBA rankings in December and George Ashey, who had zero fights as in the full 147 pound division. He fought above 141s, but he fought a guy that was in the 150s

making that fight officially a junior middleweight fight. Zero official fights at 147 pounds. He was ranked, I think, 13th by the WBA in their rankings. And Alexis Rocha, a career long welterweight was not ranked in the WBA rankings. Like, how were these put together? Just pulling names out of a hat? Like, I just, I can't. I can't. Sergio Martinez, number two at 160, Sergio Martinez, despite fighting a succession of stumble bums in his return to boxing. Great. Bring on Golofkin, Sergio Martinez

for the WBA middleweight title in Buenos Aires. I'm just saying if there's someone in in Argentina willing to pay for it, would either of us be surprised that that eventually wound up? Even if Golovkin doesn't have the title.

I mean, it's much more meaningful for Martinez if he does, but I don't want to see it. And for the health of Sergio Martinez, even against a 41-year-old Golovkin or 42, whatever it might happen. It's not a good idea, but that doesn't generally stop them. You probably got the exact same phone calls I did from Lou DeBella back then

when Golofkin was chasing Sergio. And Lou would say, absolutely not. I'm not putting my guy in with that guy. No chance on earth. It would be fitting, Keith, that with both guys well past 40 to see them finally square off. And Lou's not involved in Sergio Martinez's his career anymore, so he's not there to put a stop to that. I don't know if I want to see that. Keith, enjoy covering the fight this weekend from the comforts of home. I assume you're not going to be jumping on Amtrak or anything like that to

no, sir, try to make your way to Minnesota. Always appreciate the time, my friend. You're welcome, Chris. Good to see you, man. And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by fan duel. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what y'all saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrating. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app,

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Make sure you check out Fandul.com slash mass and take advantage of their great pre-live offers. Every moment more with Fandu, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. All right, so I took another one on the chin last week. I don't feel as bad about that loss as I felt about the one prior. Two weeks ago, I should have known better than to take Ray Vargas against Oshackie Foster. Vargas was physically bigger, but Oshackie Foster was the natural 130. Eh, that one, that's going to sting.

Last week, plus 370 for Lee Wood. He was winning that fight all through six rounds, got caught with a monster punch, and that was the ball game. So you win some, you lose some. I don't mind betting a big dog on that one because I think it was worth the risk. This week, I'm looking at the 140-pound division.

World title fight. Subriel Matias, Jeremiah Ponce. This fight is in Minnesota. It is for a vacant title at Junior Welterweight. Look, I can't bet against Matias in this one. Both these guys are rough and tumble guys. It's going to be an absolute war for as long as it lasts. Matias right now, minus 400, according to Fandul.

I got to go with that bet. Matias to win feels like a pretty safe place to put your money. I think Matias is one of the most powerful 140-pounders that we've not only seen in boxing today, but we've seen in quite some time. So I think Matias is going to win. I also think he's going to win by knockout. Minus 160, according to Fandul, is what Matias's, the odds are for Matias by knockout. I think that's a safe bet, too.

You're not going to win a ton of money making this bet, but if you want to bet big, I feel very confident that Mattias wins and Matias wins by knockout. Back on track this week in the win column. Those are my picks brought to you by Fan Duel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast.

And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but

celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.