The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jamel Herring is getting back in the ring

Episode Date: April 2, 2022

Chris sits down with Dan Cannobbio from Inside Boxing Live and the former 130-pound champion, Jamel Herring. The guys discuss Jamel getting back in the ring and the reasons why he has a new team around him and the latest with Gervonta Davis and Ryan Garcia. A little later, the longtime promoter Lou DiBella talks with Chris about the George Kambosos-Devin Haney fight. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Manix. All right, welcome back. Boxing with Chris Manix for this week's episode. Good episode, this one. Joining me first, Dan Kenobio, Inside Boxing Live, copy box, does some boxing broadcast with various outlets as well. And Jamel Herring, the former 130-pound champion. He is joining the show also.

Fellas, thanks for being here. Jamel, we're going to tap your analyst brain for this podcast. But I'm reading some news about you. Are you back in the ring in May? Is that accurate? Yes, sir. That's very accurate. I'll be back in the ring in May.

I'm excited. I'm just looking forward to getting back in there. So you're doing it with a new trainer. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. That's also very correct. So what's the little story there?

What's going on with that? You know, I didn't. during my time of B&B, which we all know is Beaumac, Red Spikes, East Out Diego, but I, you know, great thing is, Beaumac felt that it was actually the best for us to go different ways. And, you know, I had to do nothing but respect that. Like I said, I still love Bo and the team.

Red Spikes, East Side were a great individuals, great trainers, but it was more, of an emigable thing between us and I just had to go and basically find help elsewhere based on his decisions. So I looked over to my left and right and I felt that Manny Robles, who I have known for over well of a decade, coach Manny actually helped me get to the Olympics. And I felt like that and that in this point in time was maybe the best fit for me. So I'll be working alongside Manny Robles and Los Angeles going into my next fight. So that's interesting.

I mean, well, first of all, man, he's an excellent trainer, known to most people as the man that guided Andrew Ruiz to the Unified Heavyweight Championship. But you sound surprised that Beaumack wanted to go his separate ways. I'm definitely, definitely because I understand it was basically more of a difference in opinion due to the business and the sport. But for the most part, you know, it was definitely a huge surprise because, like I said, I thought I would end my career.

with those individuals. But, you know, I respect to this decision. It's no bad blood. You know, Bud, as well, did it did a great, tremendous job in terms of getting to me, getting me to the World Title in my career. So I always have love and respect for those guys. But, you know, sometimes they just have the business works. But at the end of the day, it's no animosity. Boemak, you know, I gave him a lot of love and respect because, again, he got me not only to the world title, but, you know, he helped me defend it on multiple occasions. And like I said, I'm going to definitely going to miss, you know, working alongside Red and East Sidewell because those are big.

They played a huge part as well in getting me to where I'm at, even today. So it's definitely going to, definitely going to feel funny. I can't, I can't lie. But, you know, I have to do what, do its best and just continue to keep trucking and pushing forward. Yeah, we look forward to seeing you back. in the ring in May, 135, right? You're moving up in weight? 1.35 as a now, but I mean, you see me, Chris.

I've never the type to feel like I've outgrown, or look like I've grown weight classes. So I have no issue fighting at 135 because that's why I actually started my career as a pro. Even in the amateurs, I fought as high as junior Walter weight. But I told Tom Rink to also keep options open at 130, which is funny because I'm not. not that we're speaking about it.

I was originally supposed to fight Richard Comey coming back at 135. But I guess something on his end, they said that Richard wouldn't be available for May. So we dropped that idea. Then they came with me where Conceal, Robson Conceal, at 1.30. But I was told by top rank that he was having issues with Bees is getting into the country. So we had the scrap from that. So it was basically, I was okay to fight at 130 or 135, but we just couldn't find right opponent at either.

So we're back to we're back to 135. But again, I have no issues fighting at 1.30. Yeah, well, Jamel, speaking from, you know, one finely tuned athlete to another, I can, you know, I know you're very, you're easily bounced back and forth in weights. You know, I'm trying to get to cruiser weight as we speak. I'm almost there, almost at that way. So it's all good.

Dan, do you have any news to announce that tops Jamels before we get into it? I don't. I'm not jumping through weight classes. I have no new trainer. I think that's interesting, though. Mani Robles, work-class trainer must be an adjustment for you. If anyone can roll with the punches and just battle through any type of adversity, it's Jamel Herring. So I know you'll be in top shape for that fight in May.

And it's got to be different going from Colorado to L.A. Right, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Right now, I know it's back involved with Colorado, snow and everything in LA. The weather is getting just right because it's springtime. So it's definitely going to be a huge difference in terms of atmosphere. But for me, I know once I had a lace up a pair of gloves

and just, you know, go hit something, I'll be fine because, again, I've had a great friendship relationship with Mandy for well up a decade. And again, he was in my corner of not only for the amateurs, but in the Olympics as well. So we definitely have a, we definitely have. I'm a Greg Bond and I'm just happy to be around another familiar face at least. Yeah, no question about that. All right, let's jump into the news, fellas, of the week.

And I want to begin with a conclusion, a resolution for the drama between Devin Haney and George Cambosis. Devin Haney and George Cambosis will meet in June to settle the undisputed championship at 135 pounds. That fight will take place in Australia. It will be broadcast on ESPN. which is a layer of this that will peel back as well. Dan, let's start with you. Give me your reaction to finally, you know, getting a deal done for Devin Haney to face George Camposos.

I just tweeted this out. It was years of confusion about who was the undisputed of the franchise belt, all that nonsense, months of pain-saking negotiations, whether it was Lomachenko at first and now in-steps Devin Haney. But finally, this June, we're going to give a resolution, like you said, Chris, and we're going to have ourselves an undisputed champion at lightweight, barring a draw. I did tweet that too, and I got a lot of reactions on, no, please,

the last thing we need is a draw in this fight to string this along anymore. But I think it's great. I think it's good for boxing. Devin Haney, many believe that he was the guy that should get this shot because of the confusion with the belt. He is on paper or if you want to say email. I know that's a slight, but he is the champion of the WBC at 135 pounds. obviously so what George Camposos did, winning those belts against T.Ufima Lopjevino Lopez.

I thought the Lomachenko fight would make the most amount of money for George Campos. I'm pretty sure it would having some insights on how those negotiations were going. But if it was either Lomachenko or Haney, I was fine with that. But now we're going to figure out, get it once and for all. It's going to go down in Australia. The fact that it's on regular ESPN, I think it's a big win for boxing fans. going to get a huge viewership. And like you said, just finally getting an answer to this long, long, winded saga

at 135 pounds. I'm going to figure out who's the best. Jamal, what do you think? Because I know you were watching that very closely. Because whether Lou Debella wants to admit it or not, you were potentially an option if that fight had fallen through to go to Australia and fight George Campbell. So what do you think of a deal finally getting done?

I mean, from my side, I did it. I did get a call. I did get a call about basically being on standby. I was reading other articles. I was pretty much playing C in terms because, like I said, playing A was Lomachenko, playing B. Of course, it was Haney. And then I was actually giving a call the last minute to respond by to prepare for my own

fight to be on standby. But all due respect, I feel like the right man did get the opportunity. And even, you know, of course, I would love to fight for the level of title, but I feel in my own right, I have to earn to get back into that, into that conversation. But it's a good fight. It's a good fight. Like then, putting out, we finally get to put the rest, who is, you know, this is truly the true undisputed, you know, championship of the world with all the belts, including the mix up between the franchise title and the regular WBC title, happy ring bank, I'm going to put it. But it's a good fight. Like you also stated, ESPN,

So it's going to be on a bigger platform. And I'm definitely, as a box fan, I'm definitely excited. And plus, you know, once I handle business myself, you know, maybe I can throw my name in a loop sometime in a row with all the champions of around. You know, this was a fight that Devin Haney had to take. I know it wasn't, it probably wasn't the most ideal financial conditions. I know he doesn't want to basically have to spend the better part

of a year in Australia because that's what it would be if he wins the first fight. The rematch will also be in Australia. But Jamel, he had to take this fight, right? Like, I mean, if Devin Haney passed on this fight and, like, moved up to 140, like, there's no money fight for him there right now. And what's he going to do? Go in and face, like, a killer, like Regis Progray right away or get in the mix with Jose's a pay.

I mean, there's just, there wasn't a fight that. was anywhere near as important or as marketable than this fight. So I'm glad that Devin Haney, Bill Haney, that they came to this understanding because passing on this fight would have been a disaster for Devin Haney. He's had a lot of bad kind of PR over the last year for people thinking he's like, oh, he's not, he doesn't want the real fights. He's not trying to make these fights happen. Jamel, he, in my mind, it was take this fight or else take a public relations body blow for the next year.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I give him much of credit and respect because, again, not only did he take a pay cut, but, you know, he's like he pointed out, he's doing it for legacy. And if you're going, like he points out, the pretty boy Floyd, you know, book, you know, Floyd had to go take the lesser cut and still get into bigger fights in order to get to the money made with the side of his personality and his career. So, you know, like I said, you know, you've got to, you got to take the bigger fight. risk in order to get to where you really want to be at. And I'm glad he's actually leaving by example because we live in an era, especially with social media, where we see a lot of these younger fighters where they want to be the man right now and take minimal risk. But, you know, he's taking that only risk and stepping up a competition, but he's throwing into my other backguard, like he put it out for potentially another year or so, who depending on how the outcome goes with this, or either way, how the outcome comes with this fight. And all in that, he could potentially go on from Cambosis right into a Lamacheco matchup as well.

So, you know, he's definitely got a tall task ahead of him, but much credit to him, but if he even taking the risk, he even signing the contract. Dan, how do you see this fight? Because, like, there's a part of me that Figgs-Haney should be a big favorite going in, but he's going to have to go to Australia. And Cambosis, I know social media is not everything, but it looks like he started training, like, a week after that fight. with Teufimo.

Like, he seems as committed now as he was before that fight, and we saw how dangerous he could be in that fight. It's really hard to gauge his fight. I can't wait to see what the odds are. I would think Haney would be a slight favorite just because of his boxing ability. I think he's a little more of a sound fighter, maybe a little bit of a better jab. But the thing with Cambosis, and this kind of sounds corny, like this whole boxing cliches, like the heart.

We saw that against with Teafimo. He may not have the same skill. Hills, also says, some of his counterparts at 135 may not have the same power, may not have the same attributes, but he's got something else in him. And the fact that he's going to be at home with his crowd behind him, however many pack into that massive stadium. I mean, this is going to help, and this is his moment. And then you also have to factor in the judging. We saw what happened with Paco and Horn. There's this, you know, ongoing narrative in boxing where you go on the road, you're going to get hosed. That can play a factor in this fight.

it always does, especially on the road in a fight of this magnitude. But I think it's going to be a close fight, I think on paper and in the ring as well. I think Cambos may have the power edge, but I think that Haney is a damn good boxer, really good defensively, just to go back on your last, what we were just talking about. I think that fans are going to have a lot of respect now for Haney, for signing over on this contract. Like you said, spending a year, I didn't think of it like that, but now that I think about it, he's going to have to spend a long time in there because he wins that first fight, he's got to fight him again.

He loses, obviously he'll go back home and fight two more fights with top rank. But taking less money, there's a lot of ways to look in that too. I think he was obviously overpaid with the zone because they wanted to make a big splash. But it's going to be a very, very close fight. There's a lot of close pick-em fights on the boxing schedule. And when the odds come out, I think this will be close to even. Well, my understanding was that Lomachenko was literally going to do that. He was going to move to Australia and, like, hold his full training camp for that fight and

then do the next training camp for that fight. Like, he was going to be there. That was my understanding. That's a big ask. That's a big ask. No question about it. You know, Jamel, I've always found, like, if I'm, the press conference, people, it might have already happened about time people are listening to this podcast.

But if I'm George Cambosis, one of my tactics going into this fight is to get inside Devin Haney's head and convince him that he can't punch. Like the biggest weakness I think to Devin Haney is that he so badly wants to be a power puncher. Like he wants to be regarded as someone with heavy hands. That's just not his thing. He can hit. Don't get me wrong.

He's knocked out a lot of guys in his career and he's hurt a lot of guys in his career. But that's not his best attribute. He is an excellent boxer in every way, shape, and form. Tell me what do you think of this. I think Cambosis should just spend the next two months. trying to convince Devin that he's soft, that he won't bang with him, that he won't get in the ring and trade.

Because if Devin has that mindset in the fight, I think that gives George his best chance to win. Because I don't think, Jamel, I don't think George can win a straight boxing match against Devin Haney. No. I think, I think, I think, I think, like, I mean, everything said was correct.

I think George needs to be the same George how he was, even in the buildup and post-palments with the Tio Pino-Lopez fight. Got in his head. Exactly. Got in his head. George also put it in. out there that he was just as big as a puncher, if not more aggressive, the bigger man in the fight.

And he kind of did impose that same attitude within the fight. So George has not only bring that, you know, bring that, you know, I'm the bigger man, the bigger puncher mentality going, you know, in the buildup, but also in the ring, he has to feed the book. Because if you let, if you give Devin enough space and too much time to think, he's going to just pick you apart and just, you know, beat you off in the outside. So George has to be not only, you know, not only feel like he's the champion and the real champion, but he has to go in and be the bigger man during fighting that as well.

Yeah, no question about it. I'm curious to see what approach he takes when it comes to that. Dan, let me ask you this. Matchroom invested a lot of money in Devin Haney. Did it surprise you to see them lose out on this fight in favor of the top rank to Bella ESPN deal? Of course. It was, I think, well, there was something that came out last week, or last week or last year about Devin Haney not having a network aligned with him. He was working on a fight-by-fight basis.

I didn't know he didn't have a long-term deal with Match Room as well. So there are two ways to look at it. It's like, well, he's, a lot of people I see my mentions are saying, you know, he shouldn't, Devin Haney shouldn't have to take this deal. This is not a good deal for Devin Haney. He shouldn't have to go to Australia for two fights. He shouldn't have to sign with another promoter. He shouldn't have to go on another network. But on the flip side of things, I'm like, well, where was his commitment from his promoter

that he was been with for the last four or five years? You know, why didn't he have a long-term plan with Matron? Why didn't he have a long-term plan with the zone? So that's interesting to me. The fact that he now has a chance to fight for undisputed, yes, obviously he has to spend a lot of time in Australia, his worst places to be. He's going to be making a lot of money in this fight. And he's going to be able to fight on regular ESPN.

And I know, Chris, you work for Desone, but there's no. denying that ESPN is a bigger platform, regular ESPN, than the zone. That to me sounds like a pretty good deal, all things are considered, and it's an actual plan. It's a three-fight plan that they've given Devin Haney. I'm not saying that Matrim didn't have a good plan for Haney. They got him to this point. They paid him tremendously. They gave him some big-time platforms to fight under.

But the fact that he now has a three-fight plan, two undisputed matchups, and then a potential, if you wins those to fight Loma-Chanko, I think there's a, at 23 years old, I think a lot of fighters would take that and sign on the dotted line very quickly. Yeah, Jamel, it goes back to kind of the top of the discussion. Like, he had to take this deal. I understand he's got a good relationship with Eddie Hearn. He's been paid well by DeZone. And like, to Dan's point, believe me, I would have taken a trip to Australia or two

trips to Australia. Hell yeah, I would have gone on one of those trips. But if you're Devin Haney, and you know this as a fighter, like the number of years in your career are finite. You only get a certain amount of opportunities. You don't, even though he's just 23, you don't. want to waste time when this is presented to you, a potential undisputed championship at 135 and then maybe a shot at one of the top 10 pound for pound guys in the world in Vasilio

Lomachenko. It's just a no-brainer. Oh yeah, of course. And like you putting out with time, that's not, let's not forget that Devin is still a young kid that's still potentially growing. So there's no telling, there's no telling how long, how much longer he even wanted to be yet lightweight. So it was like, you know, you've got to take the opportunity by their hand. before you decide if you want to move up to maybe fight bigger and just different competition. So like you said, there was pretty much, for the most part, a no-brainer.

Because like you also mentioned earlier, like what was he going to do if he didn't take the deal? Like, was it going to continue fighting, what, mandatory challenges and potentially individuals that no one cared to really see? Or was he going to get in the mix of being one of the best in the world himself by fighting for all the belts? I hope just editorializing here,

I hope nobody pays the sanctioning fee for the franchise belt. Do not pay that fee. I hope they pull a Riddick bow and just dump it into a garbage bow. Enough. Enough. Enough with that title. Enough. In every way.

Canello has, like, 160. Take that and dump it in the trash as well. Like, let's get a big pile of franchise belts. You leave them. Cut them up. Leave them for good.

All right. Let's move on. Staying in 135-pound division, Tank Davis is going to be back in the ring in May, picking on Raleigh Romero. Tank has faced a lot of criticism, Jamel, over the years for his choice of opponents, or more specifically, the opponents that Mayweather Promotions has lined up in front of him. He's 27 years old.

He'll be 28 in the fall. And to date, his biggest win and his most notable opponent was Jose Padraza, who's a good win, but that's not an opponent at the highest level. It seems like it's starting to get to Tank Davis a little bit. went on social media this week and suggested that this was, well, came out and said, actually, that this was the last fight of his deal with Mayweather promotions, indicating perhaps that he may move on from them after this fight.

What was your take on that? And is it time for Tank Davis to maybe take a little bit more control in his career to get the bigger fights? You know, I respect Leonard and those guys over there, who I know personally, but I feel like it's definitely time for, tank to have more hands on with his career. And I think, and I think with him is, you know, he's made all the money that he can dream of,

even at the stage in his career. Because if you look at it, the most part of his career was based on making the most money, the most buck for the less risk. And I think now that he's seeing that all of his peers and those guys around, you know, around his weight and age and how they're being mentioned in the bigger fights. And let's be honest, he has like libraries of guys like Devin and so. And when you see these guys getting more credibility in their careers, it kind of gets you like, you know, I should be in the mix and included with the best as well.

But my career has been so stagnant throughout the past few years, it'll start to get to you. I think it'll start to get to any man. So I think him going to social media is basically him again lashing out and, you know, acknowledging now that he really needs to do something big for his career to basically, really be relevant with the bigger names out there as well. Dan, I give Mayweather promotions a lot of credit for how they've built him into the star that he is today. He is a bona fide attraction in Baltimore, Atlanta, Los Angeles. We assume he'll do pretty well when he fights at the Barclays Center in New York. There's no doubt that they've done well with that.

But up until this point, he has not had the big fights. And one of my biggest issues with Mayweather promotions is something Floyd said on the record. effectively he doesn't want to do deals outside of the BBC universe and that severely limits you if you're at 130 135 and even at 140 so you know it the way I look at it Dan if he wants to stay with me with the promotions by all means they know him they know how to build him but you have to make it clear that you need to get a fight against Ryan Garcia that is the fight you have to make Ryan Garcia is back in the ring in April against the manual Tago Tank Davis is back in the ring in May against Raleigh-Ramero.

If both those guys win, there is no reason that fight shouldn't happen in September, October at the latest. You don't have a pay-per-view obstacle anymore because DeZone's in pay-per-view. If you want to do a co-paper view with Showtime or with Fox or with whoever, that's doable now as well. Tank's got to get that fight, Dan. Like, if he can't get that fight this year, I don't know what fight he gets moving forward. I think Jamel made some great points there and the Ryan Garcia fight is the fight to make. It's either Ryan Garzir or it's Lomachenko.

And I always say, we'll never know what goes on behind closed doors with these fighters. And Jamel, you can attest to this to the fighters and their promoters and what goes on. But we can see, we've seen some things from the horse's mouth.

We saw what Tank tweeted. We saw that he says that this is the last fight undermined deal. He wouldn't tweet that if he was happy. He wouldn't tweet that. That's the reason I'm fighting Roley-O-Romer. You had Mayweather. actually, you know, talked about that tweet too and said, had a statement on it as well,

acknowledged it too. And you also have Mayweather saying his point of we're going to keep this in-house. And then you take a look around at the picture at 130 to 140. Majority of those fighters are now under the top rank or ESPN banner. I think Tank is looking at that. And there's no doubt that he, his team, Leonard Ellerby and Mayweather promotions have built him into a bona fide ticket seller and a very good good pay-per-view draw by today's standards. But you can't expect to be on the pound-for-pound list. You can't expect to be named alongside some of these other great fighters in boxing if you're not fighting the very best or taking those risks. You can't have it both ways. Yes, he's making a lot

of money and he's probably one of maybe three or four ticket sellers in all of boxing. Not everyone can do what you just said, Chris, sell out Barclays or sell out Atlanta or sell out L.A. That's really hard to do on Sunday nights and stuff. But if you're not fighting the best, you know, it's almost like he's on his own little island. Like he wasn't even in the discussions for a, this Cambosos fight. What's up with that? The fact that this guy brings a lot of fans with him and,

and only that, he's very good. That's the thing with, I get a lot of criticism myself thrown my way because people think I'm a Javata Davis hater. No, I'm not. I think he's one of the top fighters skill wise, but I can't properly gauge how he performs in the ring

because he's not fighting A level opponents. But it's getting to the point, think now where he's looking around and he's not at the Canello level, but he is certainly in a small group of fighters that can dictate the terms of their career. And he's what, 28 years old now? 28 this fall. And we're talking about finite time in boxing. You know, Devin Haney taking this fight of 23. When you get to 28, between 28 and 32, you've got to be making the top dollar. This is it. This is the prime of your career and the prime of your life. He has the capabilities in the clout, Javanta Davis, to go out there and maybe make his own calls, you know,

make it, call his own shots, maybe take a two-fight deal with ESPN or take a two-fight deal with the zone or be a free agent. Still have Al Heyman as your advisor, but maybe not have a Floyd Mayweather as your promoter. I think if there's only a few or a select few in boxing that had that type of capability to do that, Javata Davis is one of them. The Ryan Garcia fight is just there right there for the taking, a Lomachenko fight, whether what happens with him, in the Ukraine. Also a fight I'd want to see, but it's getting to the point with Tank

that he has to fight someone and I would favor him over a lot of these lightweights. That's the thing. We are, you and I then are either president or vice president, apparently of the Tank Davis Hater Club

because I get the same stuff. All I want to do, though, is see the guy in big fights. It's the same, it's the same issue I have with Jamal Charlo. Like, I'm not a Jamal Charlo hater.

I just don't give a shit about Jamal Charlo, Machez Saletsky, or Jamal Chalow Juan Montiel. I don't care. And most of the times, Chris, these guys don't, they want to fight the best. Like Charlo and Mungia signed on the dotted line to fight, but everyone else got in the way. Tank Davis wants all the smoke. He wants to fight all these guys, but you have a promoter that maybe is telling them otherwise.

Like, hey, you can make the same amount of money. Sell out Barclays, you could sell out Staples. And you fight, maybe Isaac Cruz. Fighters are, and Jamel knows this better than all of us. Like, fighters aren't afraid to get in the ring. I don't believe Jermal Charlo over the years, not to make this about Charlo and Andrade, who's just send me down a rabbit hole I don't want to get back out of.

But, like, you know, Charlo's never afraid of Andrade. Like, you know, just guys want to fight. It's just that people get in the way. And like, you know, you are defined by who you fight. I mean, to put it in Jamel's context here, like, Jamel, I thought you gained the most off your win over Frampton,

which was a high profile win. And even the lost Shakur. Like, that was like, I mean, these kind of put you more on the map and gave you more credibility than really anything else you'd done prior to all. I mean, definitely, definitely. And I feel like I always, I always think it's a sorry excuse when fighters think that they'll get more for this. I always say, I always believe that you get more in your pocket with the, with the resume you built in terms of the bigger names on your resume, in my opinion. So I don't, I don't look at that. Well, I can make this for that.

Like, no, I believe that with the bigger fights, you know, the bigger persons will come. So, and I also, and at the same time, you're still built your legacy and you're fighting guys that people actually care about and will talk about your career for years to come, even after you hang up the gloves. I mean, like with Teng's case, he's a terrific, terrific fighter, in my opinion, like you point in you guys point out, he is and can't consider one of the best. But it's at the end of the day, when you sit down and start dissecting things, it's like, like, okay, you go back to Jose Bidraza and then you have to stop and say, well, you know, he fought this guy who was, it was okay, but, you know, he could have fought this guy at that time. So I think he's in a tough spot. And we all like to just see how we match this up and does against even guys like Tio, Ryan Garcia, Camposos, Lomachenko, and so on. So I think he's,

I think him as a fighter, he's at that point where he knows his time to maybe make a change, within his circle and hopefully move on to bigger and better things in the future. And we, Jamel, we don't get nice things in boxing all that often. But can we please get Ryan against tech? Like that is just bombs away for those two guys. And bringing in, by the way, two massive and could not be completely different audiences. Like totally different audiences. Think about what that arena would look like that night.

Just think about the buildup. Think about what that arena would look like. Think about all the entertainment companies, all these sporting companies that usually don't give a damn about boxing jumping in for that fight. Not only that, it's going to be an excellent fight too, two guys that go for the knockout. I mean, they could fight three times if they really wanted to. But, I mean, it has to happen. Like you said, I think we're at a good timing with now with Ryan coming back, the business

side of thing, starting to shake out a little more in the favor of that fight happening. I mean, it's just gotten to the point where look at the last three fights of Devin, who people get on him for his resume. I mean, Lanaris, Jojo Diaz, and now George Cambosos. That's pretty damn good. That's maybe the best at lightweight right now, maybe outside of Cambosos. But you look at Tank.

I mean, Barrios at 140, Gamboa, and Isaac Cruz. I mean, come on, man. You got to step it up, and I think he wants to. And that's what I think where that tweet came from. Yeah, man, I just, I want to see it. Bombs away in a fight like that. That would be so much fun to watch. All right, I want to move on to Shakur Stevenson,

who is back on April 30th taking on Oscar Beldez. Shakur had some interesting comments in the last week or so, talking about his place among the best fighters in the world. Shakur, fresh off, a tough win over our friend Jamel here, believes he's at the top, or at least can be soon, at the top of the pound-for-pound rankings. Jamel, we'll start with you. You faced him. Do you buy that?

I mean, I believe he should be at least being somewhere in that conversation. at least being within the panel panelist. And not because he beat me, but he does, he does possess, from what I, just from me being inside with him in there, he does possess the talent and skill to,

of course, you know, be considered one of the best out there today. I think we, I think we're boxing, though, we have to, we can all say,

we see, something, we'll say, send him a tank, but you just have to continue adding the names to the resume in order to get to that conversation. And I believe we're for, um,

a victory, over Oscar Valdez, which I believe he will win, would definitely put him in that list. And, you know, who knows where he goes from there. And I mean knowing Chakar, because me and Chakar actually do speak a lot more often today on the side. I believe that him being that competitive as he is. I don't see him staying at 1.30 after this fight.

I think he's going to try to throw his name in the hat, especially like you guys point out, but the majority of these top names were ESPN and top right now. I think he's going to, um, he's going to catch. in and move up to 135 in the near future to maybe also get a chance to fight for undisputed. But that's just the competitive nature of Choucour. And I believe if he, like I say, if he does that and gets to the, again, a three-divisional

world champion, I believe he'll be, he can be considered one of the best world with Canela Iveras as well. Let me just follow up on that, Jamel, before I turn to Dan. Like, you've been in the ring with some good guys. like Shakur's skill set, like what makes you believe he can be that good? You know, he's great with patience and timing. Like, it's hard, it was hard for me to give him the bite and to fall in certain traps. And I don't find him myself who's a boxer and a catapunch of myself being the one who had to be the aggressor at task.

Because he just, he doesn't, it's hard to get him to take any bait. And he's great. He's great with his, with his ring IQ is tremendous. his coordination is something that is rare to find even today with other athletes in the rank. So, you know, he just has, for me, a lot of natural skill sets and tools that you can't teach, but he's great. He's great at utilizing them.

He may not be maybe your biggest puncher, but, you know, the kid's definitely sharp. And I think it's going to, even now for Fathers, it's going to take a lot because we've seen Oscar Fathers in his last outing for a boxer. And, you know, the first five, five rounds or so, he had a lot of issues dealing with the distance and the timing and just getting past that jab. And we all know, you know, Shakora is very great with distance and he has a great jab. So I think I think in Shakoro, this type of fighter who will keep that same pace and level all fight if you allow them to. So I think, you know, it's going to be a hard obstacle and ladder to decline for Valdez and in that fight. Dan, what do you think of how quickly Chakur can land inside that pound for pound list

and maybe climb his way towards the top? He's coming. He's coming strong. I think the next 12 of 18 months he'll be in the top five. I think he has sustainable skills to be at the top for a long time. That's defense. It only gets hit with 4.7 punches per round. That's 12% over his career. Jamel knows that.

Jamel knows that. I know. The guy here is actually been in the ring with them. I mean, it was to the point, guys, when I actually did touch him, I'm not going, I was kind of surprised myself, it was like, it was just so frustrating. Like, yeah, I'm like, how does he just, like, he just gets out of the way.

I just, like, just barely misses him. And then like he's old, but it's crazy because he's always in rank also the counter and come back. And I think that's the most fortunate thing. And remember, like, you know, I had a longer reach and I had a, I was tall, I'm tall as in the score, but just imagine, um, fight night without this being the shorter guy now. And with the, um, short of reach,

it's gonna be a tall order. I'm not saying that how about this is going to be easily wiped out. But I just think it's going to be, I think about this is going to see it's going to be very frustrating, you know, just to get through, like you guys put in the defense aspect of Chauta first. Yeah, I like the fact that you brought up the, you're not the biggest puncher, but he's so damn precise. And like he hits his spots too. You don't have to have, like, you know, lights out power if you can just hit that spot and be very precise and be very on time. Like the timing is just there. but the fact that he is what 24 years old now and he's got he's a two division world champion he's

if he wins he's about to be a under a unified champion and now if he moves up to 135 uh you know he's going for belts there those are you know accolades that you look for in a pound for pound fighter the fact that defensive metrics off the charts uh you know just the resume he's building a great resume shout out to top rank and the matchmakers uh jemelle you can attest to this one of some of the best in the game bringing a fighter along, you know, bringing them to that step where they think they're ready and then taking them to that next level. And over his last three fights, you know, he's doing that. So he's got resume. He's got sustainable skills and he's jumping divisions and he's winning in, in, you know, a great fashion. To me, that's everything that I look for, even though I don't really make pound for

pound list. But if I was to make one, like 12 months from now, even less, I think Chaucor Stevenson is in that discussion. You should make them, Dan. Everybody always agrees with them online. I've made a few lists, but I just, pound for pound, it's, it's just like, there's too many criteria. Like, is it a popularity contest? Right. Is it resume? Are we going with your best win?

Or are we just going with the top four so we don't get ridiculed? I tell you this, to put a button on Shakur, it's interesting to hear Jamel say that he could see him move up to 135 sooner rather than later. I'd probably prefer he stayed at 130, at least until this Haney, Cambosis, Lomachenko stuff is all settled. like to see him if he beats Valdez chase the other two titles in that division and see if he can become undisputed at 130. I mean, that would make, make it incredibly marketable if, say, Lomachenko emerged sometime early next year as the undisputed champion at 135.

Shakur, Lomachenko, undisputed, undisputed, or even unified versus undisputed is just a massive, massive fights that I think a lot of people would be interested in. All right, I want to move on to Nonito Donaire, who is fucking crazy. All right. No, Nino Donner. Like, Dono D'er in the twilight of his career, allegedly, is not looking for, like, victory lap fights, doesn't want to take on, like, a social media influencer or some big name at the end of his career, or an MMA guy, like some other people.

He is in the Bantamweight Division, and he is running straight back into the ring with the monster, so to speak, of the Bantam weight division. That would be Inouye, the unified champion at 118 pounds. That fight will take place over in Japan in the early summer. Jamel, you're a fighter in his 30s. You're still pushing towards that world title one more time. But like, when you see Donair, like, just not even blinking at getting back in the ring with Inouye. What do you think?

Hey, I want to be like him when I grow up. You know, that guy, you know, that guy is, um, is, is, is amazing. And that just, he just has the heart of a true, a true fighter. He's a true fighter. He's a fighter. I mean, he doesn't, he doesn't have to fight the monster. He doesn't have to, but he wants to, you know, and it's not, and you get this sense of the, like, he's not doing it in terms where you see a lot of guys who want to have rematches

because it's a good payday. You don't get that sense with Nolito. You get that, you get that he wants to fight because he, he enjoys it. the competition. He enjoys the sport. And he just wants to, you know, he just wants to maybe end his career on a higher pedestal than where he's at now. I believe that he's a Hall of Fame already, in my opinion. But for him to continue fighting at a higher level against one of the hardest punches in the sport today, you know, you have to get, you have to tip your hat off to him. And he's not going in there again for, in my opinion, not going in there looking for the

page. He's going in there to get a win over one of the best fighters who's actually one of the best, in my opinion, a pound for town today. Dan, Dan, Dan, he's, he's 30. He's 39. I have his box wreck up now. He's 39. His last four fights, Chris, in a way, undefeated. Nordine Ubali, undefeated.

Raymart Gai Balo, undefeated, 25-year-old, and now in a way again. I mean, him and Chocolate Tito, I think, I've been saying this for a while now. We need to, like, appreciate our legends while they're still acting. or they're still with us, whether they're living legends that have retired, but fighters that we're not going to see the likes of for a long time. I think Chocolatito, one of them, obviously Mani Pachial, he retired, but, you know, Nito Dornayor is one of those guys that needs to be appreciated. And I think fight fans are appreciating now, running towards in a way. I do think it is a big paycheck. Obviously, fighting in Japan, it's going to be a huge event over there.

But I do get the sense that it's not always just about money with him. It is about a challenge. the guy too, we should be mentioned, is a big advocate for the clean fighters. You know, a lot of fights that we wanted to see when, you know, Droner fell through, whether it was Casimir or some other guys because he believed that they didn't want to enter Nevada testing or this, that, and the other. So the fact that he's doing this at 39 and is, you know, year-round testing. You know, I can't quote this for sure, but I'm pretty sure he's one of the very few fighters that does the year-round testing.

Maybe, Jabel, you would know better than this, better than me, on this, but all that, I mean, this guy is a true fighter, 39 years old, going up against Nioa Inouye. He gave Inouye trouble in that first fight. I want to say, like, a lot of people look at that fight in two different ways, but obviously Inouye was in control. Outlanded him with three to one over the final three rounds. I just showed you how good Inouye is, but he damaged his eye, as you can see today, to this day, when you look at Nio Inouye's face, that eye is damaged, And that's because of Donito Donair. Inouye has 19 knockouts in his 22 wins.

Before Donair, the last guy to go the distance with Mouet was back in 2013 when Inouye was at light flyweight. This guy is just mauling people in the ring and probably hurt Donair in that fight against him. He should have had him out in the 11. Yeah. It was just... And Donner is running towards him again. He's just running into him. At 39 years old, I'll tell you what, Jamel, the one twinge of disappointment that I have,

and Donair opened the door to this for me, for me to this, and I blame him. He said he could make 115. And I think that's crazy in and of itself, because guys at that age don't keep coming down and wait, but he said he could make 115. And Chocolatito just wiped the mat with Martinez in his last fight. He's back at the top in that pound for pound ragging. I would have loved to have seen Donair against Chocolate Tito at 1.15. Like how that is like Hall of Fame.

That's like a, that's a fantasy fight to me, Jamel. That's a dream match. It's like it's on the, it's on the, and Dan, you can wait it after this, but like Jamel, it's on the level to me of like, maybe not on the level, but it's like in the ballpark of Pachiao, Delahoya, back in 08, just like this fantasy matchup between two of the best pound for pound fighters

of the last 10 years going at it in the rain. And with them, you know, it's going to be all action with those two. So it would definitely be a great match, especially even just a few years back having that match. Because you know, they're going to leave it all in the ring. But, yeah, I agree. Those lower weight classes, people complain how they don't think they have great matches there. But that would have been a huge matchup, not only for the weight classes around that weight, but for just boxing as a whole.

I think, you know, the world definitely would have been tuned in. that's a fight. I just worried, Dan, that, you know, in a matchup like that, if Donair made that weight in a comfortable way, which he was convinced that he could, like, he might have left, he might have left Chocolatito, like, what was it? Who did he put down in the blanking on his day? Or earlier his career, he put somebody down bad. His HBO run as a headline. He's putting every piece flatline every time. I mean, he was, he was knocking guys out, whether it was Nicholas Walters or. or I'm looking through his,

Fernando Montiel, that was the one he put down where I think he, I think he dented Montiel's face in that fight. Like it's just, he's got that hook, man,

and he's hoping that he can land it in a way. I think that's his only chance is to land something huge. I think, I don't think it's going to be pretty, to be honest. I think the Inouye is on a whole other level right now.

And I'm talking about these mythical matchups. I know that Chocolate Tito's name was being thrown in with Inouye too. I don't really want to see that. No, because I think we're all, we all love Chocolate Tito. I mean, don't want to see him get beat up. I want to see him make that big payday. But, you know,

I'm hearing that Chuck Letitito might be fighting Nyoka, which is another Japanese fight and get that money. Go over there, get that Japanese money while you can and cash out. But there are so many good fights at these lower weights, like interchangeable. You know, and the thing with Donner, he's like a taller abandon weight, too. So him to get down to 115 would be crazy, but I would not doubt him at all. But I think we're going to get another explosive fight. It's going to be The boxing schedule is crazy, man. Month of June is just off the charts. He was talking to me before his last fight.

He's like, yeah, I'm kind of at 116 right now before the way in. I'm like, you're at 116? What's like, Jamel? They're freaks. They walk around. They're fighting with. Can I have your diet? Just make a book.

Make a dieting book. Like retire and do that. Jamal, what are you weighing? What are you weighing right now? Um, right now I'm probably around to a waterweight limit, probably at 147. Perfect. But I, like, you guys know, I have a, great, the perfecting athletes, nutritionist.

So for me, once I, once I had like that first week of camp, I'm probably in like the low 40s. That's the biggest thing, especially when you get into your 30s, is staying around that fighting. Yeah, you got to care. You got to care of yourself. And I actually got that from, learned that from the great without Hopkins. That's another one. That's a freak of nature.

Oh, yeah. Who's done the tremendous things with not only with his own career, but keeping, just staying in shape. So I learned that from a long time ago having conversations with Bernard Hopkins. I saw Bernard. like last week and he's at like 180 right now. Like if he needed to make 175 for a fight, he could probably do it at the moment.

Like he's probably thinking about it too. He's probably thinking about he's got the full Santa beard going on, but he's probably thinking about getting getting back in the ring. All right, I want to finish guys over in Japan and with another older fighter. Gnadi Golofkin, who is making his long anticipated return in a unification fight against Ryota Marada.

This fight has been scheduled for months now. It was postponed from the end of 2020. won because of COVID-related issues in Japan is now finally happening. Jamel Golofkin will be 40 the day he steps into the ring with Marada. You've seen him in his last couple of fights. He's been largely inactive over the last three years, just one fight per year in the last couple. What are you expecting from a 40-year-old Ganadi Golovkin? I always been a fan of him ever since he stepped on the scene, especially to the American audience.

But like you point out, just from his last few outings, he has been, you know, you know, Mexican-style Golovkin, as we can put it. And I don't know. I don't know. I go back and forth because, like I said, especially with the layoff, and we know with this pandemic, we have seen fighters who have taken a long layoff, just with the pandemic alone, come back and been in performances where they were actually shocked. And, you know, they came on the other end of, um, of, um, from, um, from when.

and losing. So I don't know. It's just hard for me to really even point a finger on what to what expect because like I said, time waits for no man. So I believe it's more of how much Golovkin has to do, I mean, had left in the tank than anything with this fight. Dan, what do you think he has left in the tank? Because, I mean, look, all due respect to Marada, but he's been off longer than Golofkin has. He hasn't fought since 2019. And look, he's got a legitimate title. It was elevated to that status after Canello left 160, but his best wins are over Pasadam and Rob Brand. They lost to both those guys the first time. So I don't know, is this, will this fight tell you anything about where Ganadi Golofkin is? I just want to see him

back in the ring, especially if he wants to fight Canello in September. He's got to be active. Like you said, he's going to be 40 years old when he steps into the ring. These guys don't have a lot of success from the 40 years old. But I went back and look at the numbers. During his prime, when he was just blitzing people, he was throwing in like somewhat around 75 punches around landing more than 40% of his power shots. You know, one of only, I think he's the only fighter today that lands double digit jabs. He still has his jab, but I'm taking a look over his last three fights. It's down a little bit. He's throwing in the mid-60s. His accuracy is still high, because he's throwing less punches and his jab is still there. With the thing that sticks out to me

the most, Chris and Jamel is he's getting hit more. He's getting close to 40% of his opponent's power shots are being landed on Golofkin. And we see that to the naked eye when we watch his last three fights is he's taking a lot more punches. Marada is going to be standing there. I think he's tailor made for Golofkin, but he can punch. I do think Guelphkin will get hit a bunch, but he's got a great beard. He's got a good chin. And I just want to see him active. I want to see if he's going to be throwing his 70 punches around. His jab, is still there. That's his best weapon. And I've always said that the best ways to not only just beat Canello, but the best ways to disrupt Canola Averas is with a good jab and volume. And

Golofkin has both of that. It also has pop too, which goes a long way in that. So I think before I look ahead to this Canella fight, this third one that we think is going to be happened, it's penciled in. Let's just see how Gullifkin looks in this fight. I expect him to throw anywhere in the 60 punches per round range. Still going to have that jab. And like we talked about with Chikor Stevenson is maybe he doesn't have that one punch power anymore, Golovkin, but he is very precise. We've seen those top of the head punches that he's kind of tailored and, you know,

very accurate with his power punches. So I can't wait to see what he looks like. He's in great shape. I know you guys have seen some of these photos that are coming out of the guy. I mean, geez, he's always going to be in really good shape. but it's just, to me, it's, it's, uh, the ring rust and it's the fact that his defense has, is on the decline. Yeah, I'd like to see the body attack of Golofkin pick up as well. I mean, he was such a devastating body puncher, uh, in the prime years of his career.

I mean, I can still hear the sound of Matthew Macklin getting hit in the stomach. Yeah, in Fosweds. Like that, that's, I'll never forget that sound. That was a sickening thwap for lack of a better word. But the thing about it with with Golofkin, that's strange to me is that he totally abandoned the body against Canello. He only landed eight body shots in the 24 rounds. And even Dan, I don't know if you have the numbers up there for like subsequent fights, but he wasn't throwing to the body then either. Like he was continuing to be not exclusive.

He's a headhunter. He's a headhunter for most of that time. So yeah. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Jamel, you know, a lot of you make, you obviously make the Canella fight because mainstream interest is there in the Canela fight, whether boxing purists like it or not. But, you know, you are one of the boxing purists. You are a guy in the sport.

Like, is there still intrigue to you in Canello Golofkin 3? I believe this still is. I believe this still is, but not as big as it maybe was if they would have had an immediate rematch after the second fight. But there's definitely, people love trilogies. People, fight fans love trilogies. I mean, look what we got with on Wilder and Fury. We thought, we thought after the second fight that it was no really no need for it. But the third fight actually turned out to be pretty entertaining as well.

So sometimes fighters step up their, their game when they're in it with a certain individual. Well, Jamel, Jamel, let me ask you. Jamel, let me ask you. Like, the one reason I want to see that fight is because since Golofkin, nobody has been willing to stand and trade with Canelo. And I don't believe, even though some of the scorecards in his fights have been close, I don't believe you can beat Canello by just jabbing him.

Like, you have to stand in the middle of the ring and throw haymakers at him. Now, you'll get hit a lot. by fast punches coming back. But Gannadi is the only guy, you know, since, you know, Canello's early days that's been willing to stand there and trade with him. I mean, do you agree? Like, I think you can pitter-patter and throw jabs and stick and move. You just know, he's going to catch up to you eventually, like he did with Caleb Plant,

like he did with Billy Joe Saunders. Like, he's going to get you at some point. And Gannadi's the only guy that would be like, you know what? I'm going to get tagged, but I'm throwing my bombs at you as well. I mean, styles make fights. And their styles both clash for a good and entertaining fight at the end of the day. Yeah, Dan, we just got to have a resolution, right? Like, we just got to, it's been 24 close rounds.

We've got to have a resolution there. I know. I wish it would have happened like two years ago. I personally, there's like maybe three or four fights. I'd rather see Canelo in there with, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a third Golupkin fight, especially if he knocks out Marada. And I think he almost, oh, he's going to get the fight if he wins. But if he knocks him out, Golpkin knocks out Marada, I think that's going to

make it even more exciting. And the Canelo obviously has to beat Bevall, which is no easy test, too. But you brought up a good point, Chris, talking about the having to stand in trade is the only way to beat Canello, this version of Canello that we have right now. There's only, I would say maybe Benavitas as a fighter that throws close to 70 punches around who has power. He kind of just stands there too. He's a very tall opponent. Canello wreaks havoc on tall opponents. He goes to the body. He's the stat. I don't have the stat in front of me, but it's absurd. Canello versus taller opponents. Yeah, there's only a handful of guys that I think could actually had the style that I think could beat or disrupt Canello and Adolfkin's one of them.

I would say Benavitas is on the short list and Evol is up there as well too. I know what I'm going to hit on that topic, but I think Canoea has a tough test with Demetri Beavall too. Yeah, no question about that. We'll definitely cover that as we get a little bit closer. Dan Canobio inside boxing live, CompuBox, Boxing Broadcaster as well. Jamel Herring, former 130 pound champion. He is back in the ring in May. And also, Jamel, doing some broadcasting, right? Joining the ranks once again.

I'll be doing the April 9th on car with Tavern from Kayla Mayer. And I actually will do the April 30th score in battles card as well. So definitely, you'm staying, staying busy in and out of the ring. How dare you try to compete with Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano? The Jemelle Herring Show, baby. How dare you compete with the Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano, Jamel? I know, I know. I'm definitely have to keep my phone ringside for that.

I can't miss that either. I can't miss them. You know, not to get too deep into that, but, like, I think Top Rank and DeZone have, have it right. Like, Katie Taylor-Sirano is going to walk well before Shakur and Valdez walk. So you can do both. Like, you know, and I bet, I bet, how that happened? What's that?

Chris, did you hear how that came about? Was it Twitter? Was that? Jake Paul and a conversation between Jake Paul and Jay Prince. Well, here's the thing, though, and Jamel knows this. Todd DeBoff at Top Rang thinks there's no time too late to start a fight. Like, you can start one at, like, 1 a.m.

at top rank. Like, it just... Doing triple headers at 10 p.m. And, you know, I'm not that old, but I, you know, I gotta... It's just like, come on, guys, it's 1 a.m. And we're watching a main event. But from what I've heard from someone in Jake Paul's team is that Jake Paul called up J. Prince and they made sure that the fight, the main events wouldn't go

up against each other. And whether it's true or not, sounds cool. Does sound cool. That sounds a great story. So if it does turn out that way Where we can get almost like Boxing fans can watch You know like almost like a co-main event

Main event whatever one starts first Both of them are obviously main events In their own right Great night for boxing fans Yeah plus everybody goes to bed happy Because it's gonna be a late night Which is not easy for boxing fans Including the Irish

You'll be up at 4 a.m. watching Katie Taylor Fight over in Ireland Fellas is a lot of fun Thanks for joining me Thanks no problem Thank Chris thank you hey thank you Dan See you guys soon When we come back

My Conversation with Lou DeBella. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me,

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, be heard but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so...

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Fight fans, take your best shot with a $150 bonus in site credit guaranteed from Fanduil Sportsbook. It doesn't matter if your fighter gets knocked out or tapped out.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast,

it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. All right, Lou DeBella is the promoter for George Cambosis. On June 5th, he will be in Australia, where Cambosso will attempt to put to rest any questions about who was the undisputed champion at Lightweight when he defends his titles against Devin Haynes. It's a fight that you can see in the U.S. on ESPN. And fresh off the press conference for that fight. Lou DeBella joins me here on the show.

Nice press conference, Lou, put it together. The multi-continent, multi-country press conference, Australia, and you out in Los Angeles. How do you think it went? This has been four months of trying to make a deal and actually making two deals, having done a deal for Loma, only for Loma to have to go back and fight a bigger fight.

and Ukraine got invaded. Loma went back. That deal we gave him. You know, look, people wondering, why are you taking so long announcing Georgia's fight? We wanted to give Loma Attic with time to make up his mind and decide what he wanted to do. He actually could have left.

He made a decision of conscience to stay. And that was only a couple of weeks ago. So to completely have to change course, I went back at that moment. I went to George, and I said, what do you want to do? He said, go get Haney. And I had a lot of conversations with some of the people you work with at the zone. I mean, a lot of conversations with, you know, Joseph Markovsky and clearly they wanted to try to do a deal. Actually, the kid wanted to be

loyal to Eddie and to the zone. He felt that they had paid him a lot of money. And he wanted them to have an opportunity to make a deal. But honest, we never could be a deal. And at the zone was never better than was able to put together by aggregating, you know, pay-per-view with Fox in Australia, along with government support. The Victorian government really wanted to bring George back to Marvel Stadium.

And I had a whole structure done with top rank for Loma. And it was, it was, the deal structure was such that it was a better deal for everyone. Well, for George for myself, it was obviously a good enough deal that Aram and Loma made it. When I couldn't reach agreement with the zone, I made a call to top rank to say, you think the deal structure could hold through in its exact form? You think we could substitute Haiti and do the same kind of deal on ESPN? And they went back and had some conversations, came back and said, yeah. And the deal happened.

And Devin and Bill Haney, you know, there were men of their word. When I called them, I called Bill Haney when it was unclear to me that Loma was going to leave. When Loma went back and I knew that we were going to be under a deadline literally this week. I mean, the press conference happened today for a reason. We needed to get the deal done by April 1 and announced by April 1. A lot of work went into doing a deal at Marvel Stadium. An Australian Football League game had to be moved. That's almost like moving an NFL game.

It's unheard of. Once we did that, I had to make a big event happen. George wasn't going to tolerate fighting a victory lap tour. I mean, we threw it out to him. He didn't want to hear it. Say what you will about the kid, man. He's a warrior. and he has that sort of spirit

of wanting only to fight the biggest than the best. That was the instruction he gave. It was, go try to make Haney, we couldn't make it. We made Loma. Loma fell out. Now go try to make Haney again. And I'm happy I was able to get it done. I feel very relieved today that we announced it.

The reaction in Australia is ridiculous. It's going to be a huge event. There are going to be about 50,000 people there that I've only promoted one other 50,000 crowd kind of event when I did Sergio Martinez in Argentina. It was a spectacle

in a monsoon, but 50,000 people showed up. Melbourne's got a huge Greek population. George is very Greek. Greek heritage, very proud Greek kid, Spartan warrior. Melbourne has such a big Greek population

that they were just dying to get this fight. and and they didn't you know loa would have been a big fight the total unification of the division against the young 23 year old you know you know guy like like like like like devid who could fight his ass off for all the belts that's a you know that it doesn't you know we we went from a future hall of famer and a guy that's already a legend to a kid that thinks one day he will be so you know george just say what you will man george george george reached us for the stars and and And George believes in himself. I've never promoted a fighter with more self-confidence to Cambosis.

Never, never. Never. I mean, never. Sergio was hugely self-confident, and most of the fight, a lot of fighters have been with self-confident. George is a guy that fuels himself by this like unbridled, put him in front of me. I'm going to knock him down. I'm the emperor.

I'm the king. I don't give a shit who I fight. They can't compete with me. That's just his thing. Yeah, I give him a lot of credit for going right into another. big fight after a big win over Teofimo. A couple of things I'm curious about when it comes to this deal. As Devin said at the press conference, he has signed up basically to do this twice,

referencing the fact that if he beats Cambosis, he is required to face him in a rematch in Australia. There does seem to be, at least when I read some of the reporting on this, like is it possible that Devin Haney, who has had some struggles, get into 135, could elect to move up to 140 after and if he does what happens then? I'm not going to talk about eventualities, but if he can't make the weight, he can't make the way. But we have a plan for that. No, I mean, part of, you know, George was getting a rematch clause with Lomachenko. We got a rematch clause with most unified champions fighting an optional

fight, get a rematch clause. This isn't like, there's nothing, you know, arduous about it. If you don't get the rematch clause that you have an undisputed champion fighting an optional fight, then you're a moron. So, you know, we got a rematch clause. And, and, but it is, you know, they were, they were frank about the fact there are possibilities. I believe that with the timing of the fight, with the fight now happening in June, and with a, a, a thought of going right back to Australia in October or so, I believe that it's very well overwhelmingly likely that if Devin were to. win the fight would occur. But if he can't make weight, he can't make weight. But I'd be honest with you, George didn't want to hear about. Like, believe me what I tell you, that George and his father didn't give a shit about the, about the rematch clause. It was, I mean, I wasn't going to do a deal

with it. It would be promotional malpractice, right? But they don't, like, they don't manifest that kind of negativity. Like, they don't believe, like they, I mean, he wants, he wanted to know, can we can we potentially fight loma because loma is going to be you know loma was this mandatory we didn't announce it because there was no reason to when we made the deal with loma right around the time we made the deal with loma the b-o was was about to announce loma as the mandatory we asked them basically we said look it's going there anyway so let us let us get the deal done and then it could be clear you know it's not happening because it's the mandatory let us get the deal done and then you could announce it's the mandatory but if loma is a

able, God willing, God, you know, I pray for the, you know, a safe end to what's happening in the Ukraine, with the Ukraine getting out of there with some sovereignty. And, you know, God willing, if Loma could get out of there, the VO is he's going to be the mandatory to the winner of Haney Cambosis. You know, he's going to be the mandatory to the winner in all likelihood. People who think that, that Devin made a deal because it was the deal for Devin Hayden. And George Cambosus was insistent on fighting in a stadium. He said it from the beginning. He was tweeting up stadiums from the next day after he beat Teofima Lopez. He wasn't going to tolerate anything else for me. He didn't want to hear about a victory lap tour at Rod Laver Stadium where they had the Australian open. He was like, no, nope, nope, nope, I'm not doing it.

Now go get me Hayne. And I tried. I couldn't make the deal at first. Go get him. get me Loma. I made the deal. Loma was unavailable. Now go get me Haney. And we were able to get it done. And the reason we were able to be able, honestly, to get it done was that that's how much Bill Haney and Devin Haney wanted the fight. No question. Let me ask you this. How longed in are you on the rematch being in Australia? It's one thing to do the first fight there, but you're a television executive. You know the U.S. landscape. There's certainly possibility that there's more money in the U.S. it is second. Nah, there probably isn't actually, I mean, to be honest with you.

I mean, you know, the, this, first of all, I don't see, I don't see any way, the George Camposus, Devon Haynes, not a good fight. I don't. I agree. And Cambosis right now is in his window of stardom. You know, he's right now, this is one of the biggest wins a fighter has had in Australia in a long, a long time. And people loved him demanding the fight in the stadium, him saying, I got to go to Melbourne, the Victorian government supporting it. The reason it wasn't hard to get top rank to

agree in two different situations with me that a back-to-back plan in Australia theoretically would work. And by the way, when George wins, and I am not going to argue with the emperor who says he will win. When George wins, he's going to defend a second time in the fall in Australia when he wins. And if Haney has, if Haney is what Haney believes he is, and I think Haney's a great talent, they'll be back-to-back fights in Australia

because the most money will be there and the biggest event will be there. People are really, really, really juiced up in Australia. today. Like, you might have gathered that a little bit, but it was, this was a big announcement. They're excited about the kid, the kid, Melbourne having that Greek population is a second, big secondary plus for him because he's very, very ethnically Greek. It's going to be a big, it's going to be a spectacular thing. It's going to be a spectacle. It really is. I agree. And you know what? Like, like, I'm a big fan of the zone. I watch a lot of the zone. I mean, I watch a lot of the box,

maybe a little bit less than I once did, but I watch a lot of boxes still. And I think DeZone gives great product. I think there's a lot of good rights on the zone. But there is something about free TV on a huge event. You know, there is. And honestly, that was pretty important to the Victorian government and to the people. Like, you know, this is a tourist attraction event for Melbourne. Melbourne, by the way, is an incredible place.

One of my favorite places on Earth, no bull. Like, I've done a lot of traveling in my career. I always wanted to do another, take another trip to Melbourne and do something else in Australia because it's just an amazing place. Melbourne's a great city, great, beautiful, you know, spectacular views and great food.

And it's just a party town and party city, a lot of ethnic kind of diversity. It's a great place. And I'm thrilled to be back. And Melbourne is thrilled to have Cambosis. It's going to be, it's going to be a spectacular. spectacular event.

And, you know, you saw maybe today with this press conference, I don't think this press conference just felt like another fight. I think it felt like an event. I think, I think, you know, to your point, I think more fighters should be world champions, not U.S. champions. I think you should be world champions. And I think there's a lot of upside to going to a place like Australia

where the atmosphere is going to be incredible for a fight. Look, both of the young guys fighting on June, June 4th of the States, June 5th in Australia, because it's, the time difference they're fighting in the afternoon on a Sunday in Australia, fighting in prime time in the States. You got to admire a lot about what these guys have shown in making this fight. I mean, George showed that he's a man of his word. He wasn't going to go from Tiofimo to a soft touch.

He was going to go from Cofimo to something huge. And he proved it twice. Look, how many times you have a guy that fights Tiofimo Lopez, is close to signing a contract to fight Lomachenko, and then change his course when Lomachenko is unavailable to Devin 80. That tells you everything you need to know about fucking George Camposus. That tells you everything you need to know about him. Think what you will.

You want to doubt how great he is. You want to think it was a lucky night at the office or whatever. He don't think that. He thinks he's the man. He thinks he's the emperor. He knows it. And he reached out for that challenge. You know how many American fighters will not leave the country to go to hostile territory?

There's like huge numbers of them. many big fights don't happen because a lot of managers, fighters, even promoters are hesitant to, you know, to value that concept of world championship and go on the road international. You know, for for Haney to go halfway around the world, you know, to fight Cambosis. And Cambosis is hometown. I mean, like, well, he's from Sydney, right? but in Melbourne, his home country, with a giant Greek population, with a crowd that's going to be 50,000, 49,000 of them rooting for George Cambosis.

That tells you a lot about Devin Haney, doesn't? He's a man of his word. It does. The kid is a man of his word. I mean, the kid is a, I can call him a kid because I'm 61 years old. The kid is a man of his word, and he's a man's man, he's a real fighter. All right. A significant question I have.

Australia, of course, very serious. about its COVID regulations, are Devin and Bill Haney vaccinated? Yes, they are. Devin got his first vaccine during the course of the negotiations. Bill got his first vaccine a week or two ago. They both have scheduled their second. They will be in compliance to go to Australia for the fight. They've done what they said they would do. They wanted to make a deal. We made them the best offer. They accepted the deal, and they've done everything they said so far that they would do. You know, as difficult a negotiation as this was, for a lot of reasons,

part of some of which were just the lack of any kind of, you know, it's not easy to do a deal when you're waking up where the people you're doing to deal with are going to sleep. Right. So I have been really, truly not slept for a couple of months. I've always a little bit of a vampire. now I'm like really unhealthy. And it's been a lot of coffee and too much food.

I probably gained 18 pounds I didn't need over the last month or two. I got to do something to lose it before I, so I could wear a nice suit at the Hall of Fame. But it's been a lot of work, but it was gratifying because I think this is going to be a great event. And I think it's a great fight. And look, whenever you get the best fighting, the best of boxing, the fans when we went, the sport wins. This fight's going to get attention. I think it's going to pick up steam.

I think there's a little bit of tension between the two guys. You probably saw it at the press conference today. I don't think they're in love with one another. I think they respect each other's abilities, but I don't think they like each other very much. I think it's going to be a heated promotion. I think with the support of Australia and the Melbourne population, and I think it's going to be a crazy, crazy night on June.

I just have to be a crazy day on June 5th and a crazy night to watch. boxing on ESPN on June 4th. I was going to say, I was just looking up when the Hall of Fame induction is a week later, right? Like, you got to get in a plane to get back. I got to just get, I just got to get through that a lot because, I mean, I've been working, I've really been like working on, like, late. I've been really working too hard. And I got to go to Australia for probably two, three weeks, probably more like three weeks

before the fight, at least two. And then I literally come back. I don't arrive home to like a Tuesday. and I got to pack and go to the Hall of Fame and be there by Thursday morning. So it's going to be a crazy time, but it's going to be a lot of fun. And look, I got to admit, man, you know, this stage of my career to have something this big on the horizon and to have it happen a week before you're getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, it sort of means a lot to me.

It sort of means sort of special. You know, I've never not, like, messed around around the top of boxing. Like since I've been in boxing 30, you know, three years ago or so. I've been messing around around the top of the sport for a long time. But you have your ebbs and your flows. And I certainly, you know, I've certainly had my down roller coaster rides. But the roller coaster shooting up right now and the timing's pretty good. And it's going to be a fun couple of months for me.

Now, especially today, like I got to tell you right now, I'm going to go down and have a friggin martini and a steak. Like I feel like just taking a, you know, today was like a deep, you know, exhale. You know, a lot of work went into making this happen and it really happened. And I'm thrilled for George. I'm thrilled for Devin. I'm thrilled for boxing fans. They deserve this fight. And by the way,

does a run of some good fights coming, man? It's another run of some good fights coming. That June timeframe, you're going to see, like, I really want to see AJ and Ousick again. You know, there's a lot of fights coming. You know, the way Dillian's been acting, I sort of want to see Fury slap them around. And I'm looking forward to a lot of the boxing that's coming in the next month.

It's a good time for boxing fans the next couple of months. I don't disagree for sure. Two last questions for you. One, Haney said at the press conference. Oh, I got you to say one thing because I want to get out of my chest to. I do want, I said this earlier, but, but Markovsky and the zone, they wanted to do. I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that.

I'm going to get to that. That's one of my last two questions. The first one is Haney said at the press conference that George didn't sign his contract until today, intimating that his way of saying George didn't really want the fight. you know, Haney wanted to fight, George didn't really want the fight. Is there any truth to that and why? No, it is no truth. No, it's zero truth.

I mean, George's contract was a lot more complicated than Devin's because of things like, you know, participating in, you know, you have a stadium show. There are immense expenses. And there's all sorts of, he participates on when the event, the better the event does, the better George does. And his contract was very much, much more complicated. On top of it, George's lawyer, Greg Smith, excellent attorney. You know, it's always challenging when the other side has a great attorney, but he's a really good attorney.

But he had a hearing with the IBF about that, that triller money, that down payment on the fight. There was a hearing this week, and he had to turn his attention to lawyering that hearing. And so did Don Barrow. Don Barrow from my office was, like, you know, had to testify. And there was a lack, I mean, it was, it took longer to get put pet to paper, but it wasn't had nothing to do with no one was trying to get out of anything that was you know

look both of these guys have done their fair share of smack talking on the other um i could promise you one thing today never would have happened if both of them didn't want this fight real bad real bad no question all right now the last question is about why a deal between de zone eddie herne a deal that you initially tried to make the first time as you said then you went to loma loma had a deal had to back out. You turned back to the DeZone side. Why didn't that deal work out? I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of people, Devin asked me today if there was like anything personal with me. Actually, I read a lot of this on social media too. Like, it was this because of anything personal with me and Eddie? No, no. I mean, if Eddie, look, I mean, I make deals all the time with people I'm not hanging out with that particular moment in time.

I mean, Eddie and I have ups and downs or whatever. But I mean, the reason I couldn't get a deal done with Eddie wasn't personal. It just, I made him an offer. I think he should have jumped all over it. I made him an offer right in the beginning, like literally the beginning of the year. And I made him an offer that I was shocked that he didn't take. And he came back with a counter, which was honestly just like it was nowhere near the ballpark. And that was the last time we really had a substantive conversation. And then believing that Eddie and I weren't going to get it done,

Joe Markovsky and, you know, Desone made a real strong. effort to try to do something but um i already had a framework with lovacchenko when when haini didn't work in the beginning and that framework made it easy to do something and i don't think a lot of people don't understand what i think the guys at the zone got it but i the guys at the zone would say i changed the structure of the deal on them a few times but the truth of the matter is it wasn't going to work a deal with the zone buying out australia wasn't going to work because Fox tell and Fox in in Australia really wanted this fight. And they were very aggressive about making sure they got this fight.

And I had a, you know, between Fox and the steadfast desire of the Victorian government to get this big event, the structure that deal changed a few times and we just couldn't bring something home and then I said to myself if I'm going to get this done in time to go June 5th I need to get it done right now and how am I going to do that?

So I made a call to the top-ranking people and said the deal he had not a matter see it wasn't so much he had to take it was a matter of the whole structure of the deal was the same like people who think that Devin got made some really horrible deal here just to get to get a you know fight with cambosis that's not true i mean the deal that that's underestimating bill

and deva the deal they made was the best deal they were offered honestly truth and they would probably tell you that the deal that they made was the best deal for them and that's why they did it there was nothing personal here was frigging business now that being said i don't think any and I are running to to drink a bottle of wine together and have a steak anytime soon. But what happened here wasn't personal. It was just it was the best deal for George. It was the best deal for Devin. That's why it happened.

And as a result of it, boxing fans are going to win. And here's the truth of the matter. Fans want to see the biggest and best fights. We need to make the biggest and best fights. And network affiliations can't stand in the way. You know, because it hurts everyone. It hurts the sport. And, and, you know, I think in a perfect world, you know, I know Devin would have preferred to fight this fight for Eddie in the zone, but it wasn't going to get done that way. And, and he wanted to fight enough to do what was best for himself. And what was best for him was what was best for Cambosis. It also happens to be what's best for box offense. I mean, you're getting two young stud fighters at the top of their game, you know, fight. fighting for every belt in existence and lightweight in front of 50,000 people in prime time in the U.S. I mean, that's good stuff.

I agree. I agree. No matter what, how the sausage was made, the deal got done. And now we get one great fight, potentially two great fights. And if Loma gets involved at the end of it, maybe three great fights. And that's really all that matters when it comes to boxing. Luke, congratulations on getting it done. Get some sleep, man.

Take a break. Thank you, man. I mean, literally, I'm about to go to Club BED. That's about what I'm... That's literally what I'm doing. Yeah, have a... But I have a martini, eat dinner, and go to Club BED. Please stop showing the video of your bed.

Thank you. Well, it's a hotel room, at least. I'm not showing you video of my bed. Nothing romantic about it, dress. Have a good night, bro. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Jamel Herring, Dan Kenobio and Lou DeBella for joining the show.

As always. Subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I will see you next week from San Antonio, where Ryan Garcia makes his return. What's up, Brian? Sergio, you don't know shit. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that. excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors, like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.