The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Riyadh Season in the US

Episode Date: April 27, 2024

Joining Mannix this week is veteran boxing journalist Corey Erdman. Mannix and Erdman further unpack Ryan Garcia's win over Devin Haney, discuss Saudi Arabia's first U.S. show, break down an important fight for Jose Ramirez and more; later, longtime trainer Robert Garcia joins to talk Haney-Garcia, his new partnership with Oscar Duarte, re-joining forces with Vergil Ortiz, a fresh start for Ramirez and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. Well, you might think there is nothing to do in Fresno, California.

But Corey Erdman is not one of those people that believes there's nothing to do. Corey Yosemite Erdman is joining me here in person on the podcast. Corey will be on the mic on Saturday for the Jose Ramirez, Rance Bartholome, headline show live on DeZone. Before then, though, he'll be puttering around Yosemite National Park. Is that right, Gore? If I'm lucky, I'm definitely going to make it to Sierra National Forest. Like, what do you mean there's nothing to do here in Fresno?

I'm just simply saying, no, the, I didn't say it. I said that the perception is you go to Fresno is nothing to do. You would disagree with that perception. I would strongly disagree with that. First of all, this is like the capital of American labor. As Jose Ramirez would tell you. Plus, there's just serenity and beauty and a target right across the street. There is a target across the street, which you have already.

frequented and not be headed over there right after we're done recording. But we are here in Fresno, big fight, big event this weekend. A lot to get into, Corey. And I want to just touch on briefly at the top, the lawsuit that I just read today that was filed, I guess is a counter-complaint. One was filed by Derek James, you know, towards Errol Spence. I'm probably getting the language wrong, but countersuit him. It's an interesting read, to say the least. What? What it boils down to is Derek James believes that he is owed 10% of what Errol Spence made on the entirety of the Terrence Crawford fight. He believes he's owed everything that, every nickel that Errol Spence made in that fight, Derek James believes he's owed 10% of it.

Errol Spence has counter and said, no, no, no, you're owed what the contract says, which is 2.5 million, which is the minimum that a guy gets for this fight. So Derek James believes he's owed that. He also has discovered, it seems, that he has not been properly paid for the previous pay-per-views, has not gotten his piece of the upside of the fight against Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia. There's a couple others there in that mix. Kind of an ugly ending between a longtime fighter and train. Remember, Derek James had Errol from the very beginning.

You know, he had him trained him leading up to the Olympics, coached him from his first pro fight up until now. And it seems now core we've reached the point of no return with these two. Yeah, it's a, it is a sad ending. And I don't like hearing these stories either. And I think that it's, there's a lot of kind of sadness, I think, in Errol Spence's life over the last little while. You know, obviously the loss of Crawford and then everything previous to that just seems like things are kind of spiraling a little bit. I hope that's not the case.

This kind of speaks to another issue that I was thinking about on the way over, too, which kind of ties into. to Garcia and Haney and some of the reporting of kind of the earnings of those fights. And it's... Don't believe much of that. No, of course. But I guess this speaks to kind of the finances in boxing these days, too, where no one really knows what anyone is getting paid. And perhaps Derek James felt that he was on the outside with regards to what his own

fighter was getting paid. I mean, it's ultimately, I think the contract and what is on paper will obviously win out. That's how these lawsuits work. the bad taste. They had nothing on paper between the two of them. Right. I haven't read the lawsuit, so I have no idea. They have an oral agreement. Right.

That Derek James gets 10% of what you make. Yes. What you make. Right. Right. And the interpretation of what you make is wide open. Now, look, I'm of the belief that there's a middle ground here, right? Like, is Derek James entitled to $2.5 million of a $25 million purse? Probably not.

That feels like an excessive amount. Is he owed more than the $350,000 that he's, he was paid? Probably. Is he worth a million bucks to him? Yeah, the guy's been with him from the very beginning. Look, we see this a lot. I've had this conversation in the past with Freddie Roach, who's had conversations with Manny Pacquiao before his fights or before their fights where they discussed what he would make. It wouldn't be a traditional, you know, 10%. 10% is applicable, you know, when you're fighting off-paper-view. 10% is less applicable when situations like this where the minimum is the minimum, but then who knows what the fight could be worth.

I recall, Freddie would just get like a flat fee, right? You're getting this amount. And I think Robert Garcia was doing something similar around that time, too. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the middle ground. And look, they're not going to meet it. This will wind up playing itself out in court. There's a whole bunch of text mess. I encourage people to find the lawsuit and read it.

It's interesting read, to say the least, which certainly you finish reading it and you don't believe there's going to be reconciliation between these two. I think they're pretty well done. So we'll talk more about that as it develops. But pretty clear, as Errol Spence, comes back, he will have a new trainer in his corner for the first time in his pro career. All right, let's look back a little bit on this past weekend. Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia, we've had some days now to digest the end result.

Still an epic night, thrilling performance by Ryan Garcia. You were there sitting in ringside. You called the undercard of that fight. Tell me what you were thinking as that fight developed. my mind has changed so much on like just over the last seven days or so because I going into the fight quite honestly I was of the belief that like I was a little uncomfortable with the fight and I know that's a little weird saying that as a guy that's calling fights for his own and whatnot but I was I was uncomfortable seeing how Ryan was behaving and that he was allowed to participate like it didn't leave me with a good feeling going into the fight this is because of the mental health yes exactly and obviously I I didn't know what was going on, and still clearly don't know what was going on. After the fight, I was obviously as shocked as everyone that the result was what it was. But in the immediate aftermath, I still felt like the reaction was, oh, he won, so everything is okay.

And I wasn't fully comfortable with that either. Like, I don't think that just because Ryan Garcia won, that that means that he's all right and that everything that we saw beforehand was necessarily, you know, a fake or an act. But then the other day, you know, I saw the podcast clip of Ryan saying, like, I perpetrated the whole thing. This was all an act. There's a video of me saying was an all an act. You know, in the moments right after the fight, Chris, when you were talking to him, he kind of let on like, oh, you know, I'm not actually crazy, but then he was still behaving the same way. He hadn't let the act go if it was an act.

So I, like, either, you know, Ryan Garcia is like an Andy Kaufman-level method actor with a comfort level in kind of trafficking, endangering conspiracies, or there is actually something going on, you know? Like, I really still don't know what to think. But hell of a performance, though. But underneath all of that, I don't, I don't know. know that I have a fully formed opinion. No, I think there's definitely stuff going on.

I mean, at his post-Fice press conference, he said, I drank all week, I went out early in the week. You know, this was stuff he admitted to. He said he wasn't proud of it, but he said that was what it was. And if you are behaving that way prior to your fight, there's something going on there. There's something happening with Ryan Garcia. Neither one of us are doctors or not psychiatrists. so we can't diagnose him,

but the idea that this was all, you know, schadenfreude, that this was all just a setup that we were all supposed to believe that this wasn't happening. I'm not entirely buying into that altogether. I wanted, though,

to dive into the Haney side of all this, because the longer I've thought about this, the more blame I place on the shoulders of Bill Haney. Look, Bill Haney was the 2003 boxing riders manager of the year. Had a banner year as a manager.

I don't think he managed his client well going into this fight. When Ryan Garcia rolled in 3.1 whatever pounds overweight, an option for Bill Haney and for Devin was to cancel the fight. Or conceivably, shove an Arnold Barbosa into that major. event, which is something that's been talked about over the last couple of months. Bill Haney didn't do that.

There was probably an opening to attach a rehydration clause to the new contract that was made. Bill Haney, the Haney side, they didn't do that. I think that's a failure. Look, a lot of it's on the fighter. He's ultimately going to make the decision. Bill has often said, Devin is the boss. But the fighter's always going to want to fight, man. And a fighter that cuts down and weight like that,

that went through hell to get to 140, he's not going to say, scrap the fight. He's going to, you know, there's almost a, when you're trying to cut that much weight, there's almost a manicness that takes hold of you because you're so depleted, you're so ready, you're so primed. Like the idea of canceling a fight,

it doesn't even register with you at that time. But obviously, Devin was supremely confident during that fight week. That's where I think Bill Haney needed to be. be the manager, the trainer, and to some extent, the father. Bill Haney should have said, no fight. Three point two pounds is a big number. People can dismiss that. It's not, I've heard like Robert Garcia, we're going to see this week, and I was watching a YouTube clip of something he said. He's like, you're crazy if you think three point two pounds is not a massive amount of weight in a fight like that. Not attaching the rehydration clause was a miss.

like forcing Ryan to suffer. Like there was some leverage there that the Haney's had in that moment. Ryan Garcia wanted to get paid. Golden Boy wanted to get paid. They didn't want to go through all this for nothing. Not attaching a rehydration clause, I thought was a mistake. I thought there was a level of arrogance on the Haney side that ultimately wound up cost them. Am I being unfair with that, do you think?

It's hard to say because you can see exactly why. they felt that way because five minutes ago we were talking about wholeheartedly believing that Ryan Garcia was not okay, that they were going into the ring against a man who was actively drinking all the way up to the fight and

was in the throes of mania. Like I can understand why they thought don't worry about it. I don't care that he's missing Wade. We're going to go ahead with this fight. Obviously there's pressure to go through with the fight too. If you play the tape back and you knew everything that you know

now, yeah, they could have said, no way. We're not going through with a fight. It's Barbosa stepping in. Haney gets the win, and then Garcia is painted as the unprofessional bad guy. You know, in the promotion, right? I've thought about that so many. Like, you know, rewind five days, six days, whatever it was, to Friday afternoon. How different would the conversation be if Devin Haney had been like, you know what? You didn't make the weight. If you're not going to fight for a 140-pound title, I'm not fighting you. I'm not fighting you. like it, you know, Ryan might have been finished. That might have been the end for him to, like,

to not make a weight in a fight of this importance. You know, I get it. I just think that's where Bill Haney should have had a more level head. I don't expect Devin in that moment to have a level head. Look, I was messing with him all week long. I was asking him about the weights and look, if he blows the weight, what's going to happen? He said, you know what?

Whatever. I'll take his money that I'm going to knock him out. So clearly, confidence in Devin Haney. in that moment Bill Haney either needed to he need to make a better decision or have some more experience

tell him like hey not a good idea here look I know you think Ryan's crazy but look Ryan is still powerful no matter what you thought of where he was at mentally he's still a power puncher with one of the best left hooks

we have in boxing today maybe the best left hook in boxing I just again you're right hindsight is 20-20 it's easy to look back right now, but in that moment, the guy that's purported to be the best manager

in boxing, at least he was last year, should have managed his client better. Do you think, and I'm going to volley this back at you, do you think an element of this is Bill and Team Haney not, like, wanting to be the anti-tank because there is that kind, especially over the last six months or so, they've really

kind of taken aim at the Mayweather camp, at Jervante Davis, and Do you think in the back of their mind they wanted to be the guys that said, I'm not going to force Garcia into anything. We're going to give him whatever he wants and we're still going to beat him. Do you think that they were motivated maybe by trying to prove a point in that way? In thinking they were going to go through the fight, they're going to get the win, and hey, we beat him in a way the tank didn't. Maybe. I just think that by Wednesday when they got a good look at Ryan.

And look, Ryan stood right next to me in the ring at Gleason's gym. You knew in that moment, and we talked about it in that moment he wasn't going to make weight. He looked like a junior middleweight on Wednesday. Cut down to 143 and change. You knew, though, he was not going to make weight. I just think they believed wholeheartedly at that point that there was nothing Ryan Garcia could bring to the table that they couldn't deal with. I think they believed they'd beat him down. They'd make him quit.

Look, and there was a time during that fight where I thought that might actually happen. I mean, the first round was the first round. Great moment for Ryan Garcia, but you get into the first. fifth and all of a sudden like this looks just like regis pro great like that's what i think i said on that on the air like this looks like devons walked him down landed a big left hook in one of those rounds so i can see that you know where they came up with that but uh it it was it was too it was overconfidence it was overconfidence of the point of arrogance and it cost them in that fight yeah and and again like to what degree is it forgivable though like if if all of us if

literally everyone was fooled by this why do they not I get the same girl. Like, I understand on the weight issue. I think that you probably should have been firmer on that weight issue, although, you know, $1.5 million, assuming that is true, is pretty tempting, you know, whatever. I would have said, you know what, like, but in that moment, Corey, like, you have so much leverage.

Like, I would have said a million dollars a pound. Like, you want to fight $3 million. That's how much it's going to cost. What's the danger? Like, look, and I'm not a fighter. I didn't go through an entire training camp to train for this, for this big moment. But there's nothing that,

Devin Haney would not have faced criticism if he backed out of that fight at that moment. 3.2 pounds is 3.2 pounds. I said this in the air. And people, I remember certain social media writers or certain writers write for certain publications crapped on me on the air for saying that Ryan Garcia, him missing weight on Friday. It was disappointing. It was unprofessional. But it had nothing to do with how he was going to fight on Saturday.

In fact, Ryan Garcia was probably better off for blowing through that weight as a fighter in the ring. You've got to know that. I just feel like you've got to know that if you're the trainer, the manager of the fighter. And again, look, it's easy for us sit here and do it in Thursday morning quarterback. But that's kind of where I'm at with the hainy side of all this, that they should have done more. Cancel, rehydration clause, ask for more money. I don't know what it would be, you know, but I think they should have done more. No, but you're right. I mean, because there's different ways, there's different types of missing weight. And I've been thinking about this too because there's one you know there's one instance in which you miss weight and you

you really like you killed yourself trying to get down there and you miss weight obviously that's going to have a deleterious effect on your performance in the ring then there's this way which is just opting seemingly not to make Wade Ryan Garcia clearly knew he wasn't going to make that way it was it was an option and it brings to mind another discussion too because I haven't heard because I think that we're really caught up obviously in how phenomenal that performance was by Garcia and how shocking it was. And I've been thinking about all the fighters throughout history that have genuinely tried to make weight and haven't made weight.

And the pattern in the immediate aftermath is number one, you know, here come the out of shape and like fat jokes, generally about like 122 pound fighters with like 3% body fat. And then they're unprofessional. They don't respect the sport. But here we have, and I'm, you know, whether it's Ryan Garcia or whatever, in the instance of someone,

whether it's Ryan or Floyd, someone deliberately missing weight strategically, I don't hear unprofessionalism really being tossed around all that much with it. It's just like this genius tactic. But on the flip side, it's unprofessionalism. Like, if I had someone, like, put it in another realm, if I had someone that was, you know,

racing to get to work and they were late and they showed up late for work, or if I had someone that called in and said, you know what, fuck it, I'm coming in an hour late, go ahead and take it out of my paycheck, I don't care, I'm going to come in. Which employee would you label as being trustworthy and professional? Not the latter.

Right? It's interesting the way, and I think it's just because it was so wacky and so fascinating that we don't feel like having that discussion. It's not fun. Yeah. I mean, to me, a lesson should have been learned from the Corales-Castio-2 fight.

You know, Corrales Castillo won one of the greatest fights in recent boxing history. This is the rematch Castillo blew weight by three and a half pounds. And the fourth round of that fight, he knocked Corrales Cole. Now, maybe he does that regardless, but maybe not having to shrink your way down to 135, deplete yourself, gave him a little bit more oomf when he got into the ring and able to land that type of shot. That's always going to be a great what-if when it comes to this fight. Well, all that being said, this fight needs a rematch.

I don't know how many times we have to say it. I don't know if we have to scream it from the heavens. The best fight for both these guys. In their next fight, maybe one fight in between, whatever, is going again. That's why I was disappointed to see Oscar Delahoya on Devin Haney's Instagram, I guess, saying that there was not going to be a rematch between Haney and Garcia. That doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, look, I don't know what the pay-per-view buys were for the first fight.

I genuinely don't. but whatever they were, they're probably going to be three times bigger the second time around. Because, look, the fight was great in the ring. It was compelling. It was the buzz of social media. We talking about it for days afterwards.

But that doesn't matter when it comes to pay-per-view. What matters is what people think it's going to be, right? And nobody believed going into that fight. It was going to be competitive. The odds went from 8 to 1, 9 to 1, 10 to 1 in favor of Devin Haney. When you see that, you're not inclined to press the buy button and spend 70, 75, 80 bucks, whatever it was for that fight. The rematch, massive number.

I think the rematch could push a million pay-per-view-byes. If promoted properly, if done in the right location, I think the rematch could do a million pay-per-view buys. I can't see a fight out there for either one of them that does that. I mean, Ryan's talking about junior middleweights now. He's talking about Sebastian Fondora. I know, I know. We're going to talk about Sebastian Fondora in a minute.

But he's talking about Arrow Spence because of the Derek James stuff. Look, he's going to move up to welterweight. We know that. what's kind of sexy in the welterweight division? He's clearly not going to fight boot tennis. We saw the look on his father's face when Eddie Hearn brought that up, which I don't disagree with, by the way. I wouldn't want any part of that.

Connor Ben kind of interested me a little bit, I guess. But Haney Garcia, too, is a huge event that both these guys should be instructing their teams to make sooner rather than later. This one was a huge. I agree. I think that the rematch is the fight to do. And who knows what Oscar is thinking. maybe he's suggesting that there isn't going to be a rematch

to try and get some kind of like negotiating leverage or something, who knows. But I think that this is the fight to make. I think you run it right back. And even in this one, even with all of like the doubt about, you know, the seeming certainty that this wasn't going to be competitive, when you got there, when you were in the arena, it felt like a big fight.

The energy in the arena felt different. Our live stream, like the undercard on YouTube, You've did 1.5 million views. You know, that's an astronomical number for an undercar, right? A lot of people that are curious about the fight on fight night. I was going to say a lot of Sergey Dervichenko fans. I would imagine so, right? Ukraine stand up.

A lot of Vaughn Alexander fans. A lot of Vaughn-Alexander fans. A lot of Vaughn-St. You're right. The buzz was big, and I think a buzz... Even this time, right? So think about it the second time. And look, I love New York City.

I would like to see more fights in New York City. This to me feels like a Vegas fight. You do it again. You do it at Team Mobile, MGM Grand. whatever in Vegas. I think you sell out that building in a heartbeat and it's a major event. Yeah. And look, it could have

hit a different level in New York and the way that I know that it can. I didn't see any bootleg T-shirts being sold on the experience. No merch. That's how you know it's like another level. Yeah. And look, to be honest, I think Ryan owes it to Devin. I do. Look, Devin is responsible

for Devin. He agreed to take the fight. The money was transferred however much that was. So it's not cheating like I've seen some people suggest. Devin agreed to it. He got in the ring. What happened, happened. But, you know, if you're Ryan Garcia, you know, you kind of did to Devin Haney what Tank Davis did to you. Like, you handicapped him a little bit, right? Devin struggled to get down to 140. You didn't. And you reap the benefits of it in the ring. I think to a degree, Corey, he owes Devin a rematch. Yeah, but, you know, in his new character as this, like, devious mastermind, does he care that

he owes anyone anything. I don't know. Probably not. But, you know, I also don't think there's a market for Sean O'Malley in, you know, a crossover type of fight. Yeah, probably not. Although, shout out to Sean O'Malley. I did go to his cold plunge place in Phoenix. That's, that's really good information that. I'm sure there you go. Go check it out. The art of recovery, everyone in Phoenix, Arizona. But he goes up to Welterweight. There's not a lot of big names there. Maybe Devin Hayne doesn't want an immediate rematch. There's the mandatory against Sando Amartine out there, which is challenging in different ways, but not one that you can expect to take any kind of punishment in, so to speak. So maybe there's a fight for them in between, but by this time next year, we got to see the rematch.

We've got to see it. That's too good a fight. And hell, if Devin wins, trilogy, bring it on. That's one of the things I love about these guys fighting at this point in their careers. 25 years old, the two of them. It sets up multiple fights down the ride. Too often we get Pachiel Mayworth at the very end, Spence Crawford at the very end. We got these guys just hitting their physical prime where you can easily see them having multiple fights, big fights that could define their careers.

So I hope we get some of that. All right. So this week I was in New York for the announcement of the first Riyadh season card in the U.S. Turkey Al-Ashek and the Saudi officials responsible for Riyadh season are moving the show into Southern California in Los Angeles. and they're leading off with a big fight in the junior middleweight division. Terrence Crawford, number one pound for pound, will take on Israel Madrimov at the top of that card. Madderoff, of course, a 154-pound title hold.

The rest of the card, Corey, is insane. You have got Virgil Ortiz going up against Tim Zhu. It's assuming that Ortiz gets through Thomas DeLorme this week. And Andy Ruiz, Jarrell Miller, that's a crossover heavyweight fight. Issa Cruz against Jose Valenzuela. That's a good fight at 140. Andy Cruz is on that card. David Morel is on that card.

It's just fully loaded top to bottom. And this is kind of continuation of what the Saudis are trying to do, not just put on an event with a big main event, but putting on events that have a whole bunch of fights on it that could be their own main event on some level. Yeah, it is raising the bar for everyone else because almost all of those fights that you just mentioned in a normal world could headline a broadcast on DeZone, on ESPN, almost anywhere else.

Like basically, with the exception of Andy Cruz, Antonio Moran, you could place any of those fights in a main event somewhere, and it would feel acceptable. And so I'm wondering kind of like what this, more so than I'm wondering kind of like what is the end game of, you know, Saudi involvement in American cards is like, what will this do for the industry at large? Does this, again, raise the bar, does this make other promoters try and match like that level of talent on a card? Or is it just assumed that this is at a price point that most people can't or don't want to match and you just can't do that?

That's kind of where you go to bring your fighters to get the big payday, but otherwise it's business as usual. I'm curious about what standard this sets for the sport. Yeah, I think it's a positive that these fights are taking place in the U.S. These types of cards are in the U.S. because as great as the Day of Reckoning was

and the Fury and Ghanu show was and the Joshua Nganu show was because of their location and because of the time zones. Like the audience wasn't big. It wasn't. And it was never going to be big because it's really difficult

to get a U.S. audience to tune in to a fight at 5 o'clock in the afternoon And the live audience has a very different vibe that just doesn't resonate with the North American viewer quite the same way. Exactly. Like this fight in L.A., you're going to have Crawford fans there, but you're going to have Esau Cruz fans there. We saw how many fans he drew to Vegas for his last fight. You're going to have Andy Ruiz, Dorel Miller type fans there.

You're going to have a lot of fans of different types that are going to probably sell out that stadium. August in L.A., that's a pretty nice night to go out and watch boxing. So I think that's the development of all this that I think is the most positive is that we're having these fights in the U.S. These mega cards are taking place on U.S. soil where they have a chance to have a greater level of exposure.

And look, I love the Crawford-Madrimov fight. Like, Madrimov probably was not on the top of Crawford's list six months ago. When he was calling out Canelo, when he was looking at Tim Zhu, and then maybe he was going to fight Sebastian Fondora. All those things fell by the waist. side. So now he gets Madrimov, who is really freaking good, like really good. Decorated amateur just had a one-sided destruction in his last fight against Magamagreb Kervinoff to win his world title. You know, Crawford's first fight at 154, this won't be easy, Corey.

No, it's not a cakewalk, and if it is, it speaks to how great we think Terence Crawford is. You know, he's a special operator. And if he can dominate Madramov, even though Madramov may not be a big name to a lot of people, it may not resonate with the casual audience if he goes in there and destroys Madramov. It will mean something to the hardcore fans as well. And listen, it's a fascinating entry point to a new division for him. And it also gives Crawford the opportunity really to have this kind of like, mega show, you know, a stadium show where he's the headliner, which is something that

he hasn't, he hasn't yet had the opportunity to do, but as the top pound for pound fighter in the sport, arguably, is, if boxing were a meritocracy, that's what you deserve, right? And so in comes this entity that makes it so. And in that regard, that's obviously a positive, right? Yeah, I think Madramov is a good opponent, right? Like, he's well-trained, He's part of that Antonio Diaz, Joel Diaz camp. I favorite Crawford going into the fight, but when I think of the toughest tests of Crawford's career, it's probably going to be right up there.

It's probably right up there. Maduroff is 29 years old. He is a career-long junior middleweight. There are not the questions around him that there were Errol Spence, for example, in his last fight, or guys like Julius and Dongo at 140 and some of the other guys, that Jeff Horn. He wasn't limited in that way. He's a really, really talented fighter, strong fighter.

heavy-handed. It's going to be a great fight headlining that card. The fight, though, I'm kind of sneaky, most excited about, though, is this Ortiz Zoo fight. Like, this is, like, we say this a lot, it's kind of a cliche, but rock'em-sock and robot. That's kind of what I feel like that fight is going to

devolve to. Tim Zoo, we know, you know, top-level guy at 154, probably would have won that fight against Sebastian Mendoor, if his head doesn't explode in the end of the second round. And for Ortiz, it's a big jump for him going into a fight like this. Look, he's going to have his second fight at 154 on Saturday night.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that he's probably going to do well against Thomas Delorme. But Thomas Delorme, his best days came at like 140 and then he fought at 147. Like Virgil Ortiz is going to go into that fight against Tim Zhu, having never fought a legit 154. And that's a reason to be concerned because Tim Zoo was not just a legit 154, but you were making a list of the top guys of that division. Before that Fendor fight, he was probably at or the top. Yeah, there were people arguing that was number one, you know? And if not for that head clash, maybe people would still be saying that right now. I think they would. He was landed some shots of Flindora. Yeah, of course. You know, you and I talked about it on the podcast here

that, that like, going into that fight, I assumed that he was going to knock out Flandora, and my mind really wasn't changed until that blood really started gushing. It definitely changed the dynamic of this weekend's fight for Ortiz, not just because the stakes are different, but because there is something dangling there that Ortiz needs to get to, it means he needs to get out of this fight quickly and utterly unscathed. And so if there were... Blast him out of their fast as possible. Well, seriously, because there may have been the idea of this other fight weren't on the schedule,

Virgil Ortiz fought like half a round in like three years. You know, maybe you mess around, you know, he's fighting a guy that used to be a sparring partner. You know, they know one another. Maybe you get some rounds in and whatnot. I don't think that's the case at all. I think that Virgil is out for destruction against DeLorme, because he has to. It's necessity at this point. But I love this fight between Ortiz and Zhu.

Not just because, just stylistically, it's a good fight, but because of how it was made, too, just a respectful call-out from Ortiz, basically Spider-Man meming, seeing a guy that behaves in fights like him and saying, I want to fight that guy because I see a little bit of myself and him, and it's going to be a wicked fight. That's awesome. You know, that's like, I wish that would happen more often. And, you know, kudos to Virgil Ortiz for understanding where he's at in his career, understanding that he has some time to make up, and making those moves to make up for that time.

And this is another fight that I don't think happens without Turkey Alashik, Saudi Arabia's involvement. Because, look, Tim Zhu is not a PBC fighter, but he's fought a lot of PBC cards over the last couple of years. Virgil Ortiz, obviously, Golden Boy aligned with the zone. It was crazy, Corey, being at that press conference in New York, seeing all the people that are often, that are rarely in the same room, in the same room. Like I'm like saying hello to Louis de Cuba's while passing Eddie Hearn. Sean Gibbons is there and Keith Conley is walking alongside him.

Like promoters, managers, fighters that rarely, if ever, find themselves on the same cards are now mixed together. and for the right fights in a big event. Riyadh season is like the capybara of boxing. Everyone just sort of gathers around and gathers around, brings up together and puts on a good fight. But I think that Ortizufe is going to steal the show.

I think that is going to be a war on August 3rd. I'm looking forward to it. I have to say this, though, about this card. And again, I love the card. The sanctioning bodies have glommed their way on to this card, and they have glombed their way on to a lot of things over the last couple of days and weeks. So the Crawford Madrimov fight is for the WBA title Madrimov owns.

Perfectly fine. Madderoff has the belt. He's the real champion. Crawford's going to fight for it. Now the WBO has attached the interim belt to that fight. I mean, Sebastian Fendora's, like, nose is still crooked. Like, can we give the guy a minute to heal before we hand out an interim title in his weight class? That was insane.

Um, the Zoo Ortiz fight is going to be for the WBA interim title. Love Virgil, not fought a 154 yet. Like, what, what is that all about? Like the WBA jumping in to try to collect a sanctioning fee on that fight. Uh, nothing to do with that card. But I also noticed that the WBC has sanctioned Adrian Broner Blair Cobbs for the WBC's people's championship. whatever the fuck that is.

The WBA, on that same card, sanctioned Michael Hunter Cassius Cheney for its interim heavyweight title. Meanwhile, on May 18th, the undisputed championship is going to be resolved in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Let me just throw another one out there

because I've got a whole list of things right here. So I can't handle. I was just like, it's all coming all in once. And this I found out in New York last week. David Morel, Canello's mandatory for like three years, right? He had that goal of the regular championship for a number of years now.

He moves up to 175. And in that moment, the WBA decides to make Edgar Berlanga, Canello's mandatory. Calls him the mandatory. What happened when Dave Morel was the, the quote-unquote mandatory, the next-in-line for whatever that?

What are we doing? What these, like, I enjoy everything that the Saudis are doing to put these kind of cards on. would love it if they do a card that has no sanctioned belts on the line. Have the Ring Magazine Championship on the line wherever it's applicable. Everything else, screw, screw it. Do not let them involve themselves.

All they are doing is taking money out of people's pockets for titles that for the most part are not real. Like these are not real belts, interim belts. Just stop doing it. Stop, stop taking, stop allowing these guys to, infiltrate the sport because they are dragging it down, Corey. Yeah, but they remain, these titles remain tempting to promoters and to entities that are putting on events because they still, they still mean something to someone.

And particularly, I think, for the casual fan, it doesn't know any better. How do you have an interim title on the line on the same? And the WBC did this a few weeks ago. The interim WBA 154 pound title is on the line on the same card. Like, moments before, the. the main belt is being fought for the interim belt will be handed out. Just someone was willing to pay the sanctioning feed

and you know some of these don't surprise me like the interim WBA heavyweight title has basically belonged to Don King for like 15 years like a lot of WBA weirdness runs right through Don King so that doesn't shock me at all like but they're being like the people's change champion belt. I mean, obviously, that's just, that's just for Adrian Broner of all people. Is he the people's champion? The funny thing is, I don't know. The final thing is I kind of sneaky

like that fight. That's a fun fight, fun buildup as well. Yeah, a lot of trash talk, like two guys that are fringy kind of contenders. The winner will probably get himself into a decent fight. I actually don't mind the Hunter Cassachachianney fight either. I actually like Cassius Cheney for a long time. It was with main events. Had at least one setback, and Hunter's been, he's We only lost on Michael Hart's career is to Usik, right? Yeah? I mean, he deserves, like, big fights. It's just stop attaching dumb titles to this.

Yeah. Yeah, but, yeah, exactly. But, I mean, it'll, again, it'll be a fun buildup with Broner and Cobbs. It won't be as fun as if we had about billions on YouTube, but the consolation prize is that we get Adrian Broner on inside Camp Cunningham on YouTube. That's the new reality series. You got to watch that. If His Excellency is listening to the podcast, let's start cleaning up the sport by getting the sanctioning bodies out. They are just parasites on this sport.

I cannot handle the things that they're doing. All right. Last thing, the big fight we have this week in the main event, Jose Ramirez, against Rances Bartholome. Ramirez, of course, a former unified champion at 140. Bartholome, had a belt at 130. Bartholome, on paper, it looks like a bit of a mismatch. But Bartholomey, you look at the box rack, the Gary Antoine Russell fight ended by knockout,

but he watched the fight back, and he was tough on Russell for a while. And a lot of people thought that knockout was questionable, say the least, that the stoppage was premature. But in his next fight, you know, he might have gotten a gift decision against Omar Juarez. So you don't really know what you're going to get with Bartholome, but how do you see kind of this fight shaken out?

Yeah, it's interesting. I think that there's a version of Jose Ramirez the one that we saw against Maurice Hooker that I think could really do a number on the present-day version of Rances Bartholome, if that one shows up. But then there's a more recent version of Jose Ramirez that hasn't been quite as intense,

hasn't been quite as dogged in his pressure in the ring. And reading between the lines, Robert Garcia said that with a new contract, he used the word he's re-energized, which maybe I'm reading into this, too much, but kind of is confirming some of the suspicions I think a lot of observers have had about Ramirez over the last couple of fights. Not that he wasn't motivated, but just didn't seem to have the same moxie in the ring that we saw out of unified champion Jose Ramirez. So we'll see

if a more intense version of Jose Ramirez shows up in this fight. Historically, Rantus Barthelamy, He can just make fights weird and tricky sometimes. And if there's a Jose Ramirez in the ring on Saturday night that is applying pressure at like 65 and 70% speed, Rantus Bartholomey knows how to make that a like hideous 7-5 type fight with some wacky scorecards. We're going to sell it, Corey. Listen, that's what he's done throughout his career.

Like there's a way that that happens. Hideous 75. It's like there's a way that that happens. There's also a version of this fight that could be an absolute banger. And that's the one that I'm hoping for. Bartolomey's got a history of some tactics, too, that I've seen over the years. Swinging his head around a little bit. It's got a low blow.

That Mendez fight ended with a couple of punches after the bell. He's had like five wins, too. At least five wins that a lot of people thought could have or should have gone the other way. Like he is a historically fortunate fighter. That doesn't mean that he could have won all those fights. I'm saying that he's got the benefit of the doubt each and every time. Is there, you know, Ramirez is the house fighter here. We're in Fresno because Amir is going to sell out, save Mart's Center, does a big crowd.

I think there's a lot of pressure on Ramirez to get some of that mojo back, to get his swagger back. Because, you know, look, the facts are the facts. He's had multiple opportunities to fight for a world. title over the last few years and not taking them. Now, his reasons are his reasons, and some of them are good. You know, did not take the fight against Jose Zepeda because he was getting married. I can understand that. You know, your personal life, you know, it comes first. But then there was the whole deal with Regis Pro Greta. We passed on that fight because he wasn't going to get his minimum with top rank. And then the bigger deal was the more recent one where, you know, according to

top rank, they offered him $2 million to fight Teifima Lopez. They offered. offered him $750,000 in a comeback fight. He would have also had to sign an extension as part of that, but that's a lot of money to fight for a world title. You know, and that's a winnable fight theoretically for Jose Ramirez. So I think that the pressure might be the wrong word, but like there are questions now about Jose Ramirez. And what does he want?

Like, Jose is currently the number four contender in the WBO for the belt owned by Teofimo. So theoretically, he's trying to be. trying to work his way up the rankings for the fight that he passed on this past year. So, I mean, I think that there's a lot of pressure on Jose to not just win this fight convincingly, but then get back in the ring three months or later and start to get some momentum back. Yeah, I think that there's maybe the feeling amongst some, like, you know, Ramirez is almost like, this sounds too extreme, but it's almost like he's kind of like the previous generation of the contenders

at one for it. There are new guys that have surpassed him, and I think that he's... He's only 31, too. He's only 31, and with a performance, an exciting performance, and a convincing one on Saturday, I think he can erase those doubts. And I think that he places himself firmly back in that conversation. And then we see how he navigates that now that he's on this side of the street, on DeZone, with a new promoter.

But, you know, ultimately, you know, I don't know Jose Ramirez all that well. We're going to have a chance to sit down with him, you know, tomorrow. But also, like, he's always been a guy, obviously, with, you know, more worldly aspirations. And it does make sense when you see, when you put Jose Ramirez in that framework where, you know, like, there are fights that he's just going to pass up because there are other things that he cares about in this world, too. And for other fighters, they wouldn't have turned those down. Jose Ramirez, like, he has other things going on, too, you know? So, like. But how is that applicable to this?

I mean Just that It's like He's still fighting He is still fighting But that like maybe He's not Fighting isn't 100% of his world

Is what I'm saying And so you know If there is a little bit of apathy With taking fights sometimes Like maybe he just Yeah he's focused on other things I don't know I haven't had a chance to talk to him

Until tomorrow Maybe I'll get some of those answers I get if you're gonna fight though fight You know If you're gonna get back in the ring You know maybe Look, maybe a year from now, we're both going to sit here and be like, wow, he made the right move. He made $4 million to fight Tafimo or fight whoever.

Maybe he fights Ryan Garcia in his next fight. I mean, I'm sure that's what a lot of guys at Golden Boy are wondering right now. Are they going to be in the next in line to fight to fight Ryan? But right now, like in terms of the 140-pound division, the likeliest next fight for Jose Ramirez is probably like Arnold Barboza. Like they're both signed with Golden Boy, Barbosa, number one with the WBO. Ramirez, as I said, number four. I don't really, I don't quite get the thinking. I don't quite get the path forward here because, yeah, look, a bad loss to Teofima would be a pretty big setback.

But if you have a comeback fight for $750,000, like, I don't know. I don't know. But to me, I'll have to, again, I'll have to ask them the same questions on Friday. Exactly, yeah, I'm very curious. Figure all that out as well. All right, Corey will be on the mic Saturday, live on DeZone, Ramirez, Bartholomey, Ortiz against DeLorme. We also have a good women's title fight, Marlonis, against Gabriel Elanese, the rematch of a fight from last year.

Check it out. Saturday night, live on the zone. Corey, always appreciate it, man. Anytime. And I promised even if it's a dreadful 75 fight, I'll try and make it exciting. Okay? Sergio will too. And when we come back, my conversation with Robert Garcia. Imagine an Olympics where

doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all. bet it in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like, Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball.

Like, you go through a training camp with that IZEA, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Garcia is here, who I think on Saturday's card is training 37 of the fighters on this card. Robert, is that about right? You know what? We have three guys that I'm training, but we also have, I think, the first fight, Figo,

who comes from Dallas with Virgil, so I'm also going to help him out. We're going to be busy, but you know what? A few years back, we had a top right had a card at the stop-up where Nornito Droner was the coming event in Brandon Rios, Fadal-O-Varado on that card. there was nine fights total and eight fights were my fights. So we had the whole hundred card. We had Neno and a bunch of guys on that card. So yeah, that was part of the busiest I've ever been.

Is it a good thing to have that many guys? We prefer to have one guy and just focus on him? At this magnitude of the fight where Jose Ramirez and Virgil both big names, big stars, they need to have their own cards. This was a great opportunity for Virgil to come back right after his one-round knock. card in January. If we didn't do this, he probably wouldn't fight until August 3rd if, you know, that offer, you know, was already there. So this was perfect for Virgil to come back, especially after just getting less than a round. We'll get a few rounds here. And,

and that'll, you know, give him a little more. I need, I need him to be active. So, so that's why we, we decided to put him in this card. Rick Merigan was able to pull it up with Golden Boy. And that's the reason we're here, you know. Then Oscar Dr. Tec calls me, I want to come join your team. I said, you know what? We're going to need them for sparring and he's also going to help us with Giovanni Santillian and a bunch of guys that we have. So it's, it turned up perfect. And all three in the, you know, so it's going to be the last three fights, all me. So, you know, I'm already preparing everything, the timing. I'm going to wrap the hands and everything. So, you know, just it's going to be part of the job, you know, part of the work.

It's got to change a lot of T-shirts during the course of that night, different T-shirts every single fight. I want to ask you about your three guys at the top of the bill. But The boxing world still kind of buzzing over the Ryan Garcia, Devin Haney fight. As we're Monday morning quarterbacking it, we're looking back and wondering, should Devin Haney have done anything different at the way in? Should he have walked away from the fight? Should he have hit Ryan Garcia with a rehydration limit? It's easy to sit here and do it now. But if you were in Devin's corner for that fight and Ryan misses weight by 3.2 pounds, what would your recommendation have been?

I would have at least put up a rehydration clause because, see, the magnitude of the fight, you know, to say I'm not fighting, which he had all the right to do it. Even myself as a trainer, the fighter already went through training camp. He already went through two, three months of hard work. It's hard to say we're walking away because it's just a big fight, big payday, everything's already done, the promotion. So the undercard's already there. So it's hard to say, no.

I'm not going to fight. So at least the rehydration class where, you know, you can't, the day of the fight or as you walk into the arena, you can weigh more than X amount of pounds. I think that's what they should have done. But I think, you know, I think just like the whole boxing world, they were so confident, so sure the fight was going to be turned out easy that they didn't care. You know, I go back and I compare it to Lomachenko versus Salido. I think I know personally, I know Lomachenko, and I know how sure they were of that win and Klimas, no problem. That's going to be an easy fight, easy win, and look at the results. I think this same thing happened with the Haney's.

I think it's a learning experience for them. They should have done something about it. Like I said, it's hard to say I'm going to cancel the fight because the fight's already there. It's already a big event. You know, it would have been really bad. They had all the right to do it, but it would have been really bad. So at least the rehydration class. How big a difference do you think the weight made on fight night?

Big difference. You know, I know a lot of people are already saying, well, Ryan was heavier the day of the fight. I mean, Haney was heavier the day of the fight. But that doesn't, you know, I'm a trainer. I'm a former fighter. I know how hard it is to cut weight. And especially the last two or three pounds are the hardest. Every fighter goes through how to make that cut weight.

And Haney did that. and Ryan didn't. So there is a big difference. Does it, you know, if they meet on a level playing field, do you think it's a different outcome? I think it's a fight that Kevin Hennie could win. We could get the same resource because of Ryan's speed and power. And if Hennie doesn't do any changes,

if he doesn't prepare for that, because it seemed like they just didn't have a game plan. Like he just got hit by those left folks over and over. I really don't know what went wrong, but if he makes those corrections, I think for him, you know, I know they've done so great. They've done it their way. Him and his dad always done it their way, and they've been so successful and got away with it for so many years and so many fights that they're comfortable doing that, and they could

continue to that. But I think it's maybe time for them to add something or somebody to their camp where they're going to bring something new, something different. I would recommend that. maybe join a team, a camp where they're going to get, they're not the main guys, where they're not the stars where nobody's there because of them, where they're there because the gym is full of great, great work, great sparring. That's part of what I would recommend.

You know, that obviously is none of my business, but that's what I would recommend. But I think there could be a really, in a rematch, the resource could be different. And ironically, that's exactly what happened with Oscar Duarte, who lost to Ryan Garcia back in December. decides he needs another voice and comes to you. What was your reaction when you got the phone call from Duarte's team about training him? You know what? The first thing that came to my mind was his style.

I've done it before. I did it with Madonna. I've done it, you know, where fighters are already coming from Alpha Loss, coming to me to see if I could give them just a new life. And that's why I took the challenge. I also right away 140, 135, right away. I took advantage of how much sparring I'm going to get in my gym. You know, Raymond Murataya also needs work.

When he fights, you know, Jose, obviously, you know, there's just so much work we could get in my gym with Duarte. So I knew I wasn't going to fail. I knew I was going to be busy with Jose and Virgil, but I knew he was going to be in the mix with the sparring, with everything around them too. So all three were pretty much training around the same time. Virgil would be sparring in one ring. and then once Virgil's done, we go to the next room with Jose and Duarte, same thing, because you know, pretty much they kind of got the same spine partners throughout camp.

What do you think you can add to Duarte, who was really successful leading up to that Garcia fight and then, you know, get stopped. Had his moments in that fight, but what have you been trying to add to his game? You know what? I can't, I don't want to change his style because that would be a big mistake for me. I just want him to let go of his hands a little more combinations. His shoulders are too tight. And I think in this fight, you guys will see him putting combinations together where he doesn't have to throw every punch hard. Even though he's so strong that every punch is hard, but he doesn't have to try to do it.

He's going to do combinations, three, four, five punch combinations to a point where breaking them down little by little and not one punch at a time. That's what he looks for. He knows he hits hard and he loves to throw that hard punch, but especially against somebody like Jojo who's very fast, pretty slick, could be a good counter puncher. We have to throw combinations and not one punch at a time. Is there, I mean, you and I talked about this briefly before, but against Ryan, one thing that was kind of exposed was he kind of has to see the target

before he throws punch. That's why Ryan kept moving a lot in that fight. Is that kind of what you're talking about, just let your hands go? Don't worry about being fully positioned before you throw these punches. Exactly. You know, when a fighter hits hard and throws one punch at a time, he's going for just that one punch to land at a certain place. You know, we're trying to throw three, four punch combinations. It doesn't matter where they land. I tell them, if they land in the elbows, in the hand, and the ribs, wherever, it's going to hurt. In the ears, you know, wherever, wherever they're in the head, wherever those punches land, they're going to hurt.

It's that kind of power. So you're going to throw three, four, five punch combinations, not aiming at a certain spot. You know, I even told him, I don't want you to aim straight at the head. Aim at the shoulders and, you know, they'll land. And, you know, wherever they're going to be, they're going to be solid punches. So the co-main event of this show Saturday is Virgil, Ortiz. You're back with Virgil. You trained him all the way up until his win over Agus Kaviloskis,

and he decided to go in a different direction after that. Were you disappointed that he did that, you know, because there was a lot of success, undefeated record, all knockouts. How did you feel when he decided to leave? You know what? It's part of boxing. It's happened before.

It happens. He's not, you know, it's not the first time that happened in my gym. It happened early in his criminal when he was with Joe Diaz and came to me. You know, Jose Ramirez was with Freddie Roach and came to me. So, you know, it's not like it's the first time that happens to me. When a fighter leaves, I've had fighters come from other trainers, too. you know, what I like to do and Joe Diaz, we always talk about it with him and Mani Robles, us three Southern California trainers, you know, we have a good communication where something like

that happens, a fighter goes to them or vice versa, we talk to each other, we're going to continue doing this, we're going to need each, we're going to need each other for a reason or another, sparring or whatever it is. That's what we have to maintain that, that relationship, and we keep it like that. I was, you know, it didn't hurt because Virgil is a, from, you know, before he got sick, everything looked like he's a future superstar. You know, it did, it did hurt a little, but it's part of the sport. It's just, there's no, no surprise to that. I was okay with him. We still kept a good relationship, you know, even though, even though they were training with Manitolis, you know, we were always in communication. I, uh, I flew to Dallas when, when I learned

about him being sick and what happened to him before, you know, his last fight, I flew to dialed myself just to go visit him, spend time with him and the dad, you know, we drove around, went to his house. You know, I just want to wonder to see how he was doing health-wise. He told me a lot of things about that he never thought he would have to do, went back to school, started getting college classes because he thought his career could be over. So, you know, just a lot of things that went through his life and also, you know, not having him around. You know, it was, it did hurt a little.

But it's, like I said, I wasn't mad about it because it's part of the sport. It happens with, with other fighters. It's happened before, you know, it's not the first or last time that we're going to see something like that. Do you think he has a handle on these health issues because it was the rabdomyalysis first, then, you know, collapsing before the Stanyonis fight, which he says has nothing to do with the rabdo. But it's still one health issue after another over the last few years that has. have slowed his career down. Do you feel like he has, you guys have a handle on all these issues?

You know what? We, we know, see, because I fight also. So I think that's what, that's, that's the difference in, in, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, in, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, a few seconds later because it's just the way it happens when you're dehydrating and you're not drinking water boxers go through that a lot you know it happens to them so so i've been through it i think that's what that's what's been helping a lot that i know when the fighter maybe you know we're thinking of one day doing 10 rounds and i don't see the what i want to see and we cut it at six and and that helps you know

if it's run run a little bit less today because tomorrow you're going to spread a bit harder i think all that It's something that's really helping him with his career. I know he's a hardworking kid. He trains so hard, you know, in the gym to a point where, yeah, you know, today you don't have to do that much. And, you know, this last couple of fights that we've been doing together since he came back, and he's, you know, he's, he's been listening. Charles Trembly is also a great person in camp because he's, he's actually a doctor and he knows everything that goes on. we communicated with Victor Conte.

We sent him blood work, and he made a lot of changes. When he got Virgil's blood work, when he first came back to camp with me, Victor Conte told us, good thing you guys did that, you know, send me his bedwork, or else he wouldn't have made it through camp. You know, so there's a lot of things. This is before the loss and fight. Or this one. No, this is before his last fight, he came with me.

Yeah. This is your first fight back with him. back yeah so we we so victor contes started communicating with charos to where you know he he sent us over a few things oxygen tanks and stuff like that so so we start doing every day so all that we added all that and and and and and and and and we haven't seen any you know he's been doing no he was under under 156 today obviously 154 is where we want him to get a title fight and both both both both times right before he steps into the scale when he's already, you know, already on weight, I ask him, how do you feel?

Do you think two more pounds is something that you could do for the future? And clearly tells me, no problem, I'll do him. He's walking around. Obviously, he's not, you know, he's thirsty and killed himself to make weight, but he's talking. He's, you know, so I see that two pounds he could do. Plus, I ask him. I ask him, and he says, no problem. I'll do two more pounds.

So I think 154 will be good. So you're preparing for this fight against Thomas DeLorme, but it is revealed this week that, assuming this fight goes well, it is Virgil Ortiz Tim Zhu on August 3rd as part of a huge card out in Los Angeles. When the Saudis, they move fast. So you probably don't get the information. Once you get the information, you've got to make a decision on it. When this was first presented to you as Virgil's next fight, were you for it?

Were you a little bit uncertain about it? How did you feel? We were always for it. As soon as we heard about it. You know, it's funny because when I got to the gym in the morning, they had already called Virgil, you know, obviously Rick. Yeah, but, you know, so just don't know. I already knew about it the night before because I know a lot of people in boxing too. And right away they're calling.

They can't keep a secret in boxing. Exactly. Calling from New York. Hey, Robert, this was going on, so and so, and whatever, whatever, whatever. I'm like, holy cow, you know, that's, you know. But for me, when I came to the gym and I already brought up to the dad and he's like, I wasn't supposed to show you, but you already knew. you know, we say, look, let's just get through this fight first. We'll do it, but just like right now let Rick do his job.

You know, Rick is going to do his job. Let's focus on Dolorme because we still have to fight. We can't skip this fight and say we're going straight into that one because I think we needed this fight to get his rhythm back, get a few more rounds in a fight, and then we'll prepare for the August 2 against August fighting against Tim Sue. But yeah, right away we roll the whole. whole gym, everybody in the gym, we were up for the fight, but we just knew we first had

to get rid of, you know, take this fight out of the way first. Tim Zhu is a full-fledged junior middleweight, arguably was the top guy before that loss to Sebastian Medora, which we all know was caused more by the cut in the head than anything else. Virgil going into that fight will probably only have, well, I'll have two fights against guys that are kind of blown up welterweights, whether it was Frederick Lawson and now Thomas DeLorme. Does that concern you at all? you know, facing someone that is a true 154 in the big fight coming up? It doesn't concern me at all because I know how big and strong Virgil is.

I think, you know, I've told the dad and Rick and everybody else that I know Virgil could dominate at 160. If we couldn't make 154, you know, like I told you earlier that this last couple of fights by the time before he steps on the scale, I ask him, how do you? you feel you know i know right now is the moment to ask him because he's has two more pounds to get to fifty to fifty four and he's both times he told me i could do it so so i feel comfortable by that but if there was a little bit doubt i know even at 160 he could dominate you could name the 60 pounders and and i know he could compete against them and i know he could beat them so i have no problem at 154 i know timsoos is a great fighter great warrior but it's just going to be a canvas action fight man i think it's going to be one of those

those fights that steals the show. You know, it's hard to say that because you also have Pitbull versus Rayo that's also going to be full of action. But that fight right there, Virgil versus Tim Suu is an unbelievable fight. And that's what Virgil wants too. You know, Virgil knows that he's had, you know, his career has been on hold for those personal sickness that he's had and personal issues. He wants to be there. He wants those fights. I think that's what those fights are going to make them better.

Those fights are going to bring the best out of him. I have no doubt that he dominates that fight, and he could hurt Tim Sue and even stop him. I really believe that. Wow. Last thing I want to ask you about is the top of the card, Jose Ramirez. You've trained him for a long time. And one of the questions I have coming into this fight is kind of where his head's at,

because he's had a lot of time off, sporadic activity since the Josh Taylor fight. look, there are reasons why he turned down some of these fights, but the facts are he didn't fight Zepeda for a title at the time. He didn't fight Progrey, and he didn't fight Teifima Lopez. Obviously, money, he got married. There obviously circumstances come into play with all that. But as he begins kind of this new chapter of his career, do you see the same fire that he had early in his career

when he was becoming unified champion, when he was fighting for the undisputed championship against Josh, Do you see that same guy? I think now that he's signed with Golden Boy and it's something new to him and something new, like a new chapter in his career, he is. This camp was great. His body, you've seen the way and he looks fresh. He looks healthy.

He looks good. Yesterday, last night, Jose is a very responsible person. He always tells me, Robert, I'm very responsible. You don't have to worry about my weight. I was there with him. I wanted to be with him when he cuts with it. All he did was 30 minutes in the bike, broke a good sweat, and he was already on weight.

And they moved the fight to 42, not because we asked for it. It was actually, I seen the messages that were sent to Golden Bowl promotions where, you know, if it's not a title fight, you know, coming from the other promoter from TGB, if it's not a title fight, do you guys want to move it to 142? And so then I said, well, if they're asking for it, why not? It doesn't hurt. If both fighters want to come in and 142, it is not a world-tar fight,

so I don't have to kill my fighter to get to 40. Jose would have done 140 with no problem. Instead of doing half an hour, he would have done 45 to 2 hours in the bike, and he was sweating so much that he would have made 140, no problem. But if there was no need to, why force him? So I was there just to see, and he had no problem. After he finished his half an hour workout, we go to his backyard. He turns on his pool, the water falls, the lights, just chilling there, talking to everybody around him.

He's happy. Before he wouldn't do that, you know, he would do it on his own. He didn't want nobody around him. This time, he's happy. I think his new promotion, you know, he was with Top Rank for 12 years. Top Rank, honestly, been one of the best promoters in the world for 60-plus years. but in this case with Jose, I think he needed something new.

Top bring just got to a point where it was the same thing for so long that he needed a change. And Oscar, his, Oscar's energy, Oscar, since the beginning of the year, the first thing we hear is, I want to do things different in boxing. I want to invite all the promoters to let's work together, let's let's and and they've been doing it they've been doing it

Oscar's been pushing for it and he's been getting fights from different promoters to to fight to fight to fight in his cards or they go to or Oscar's fighters go to their cards they've been doing what Oscars been asking for so that's that's that's something that's motivating that's pushing Jose now that he's part of Golden Boy to be one of his biggest stars at some point Ryan Garcia is going to be looking for another fight end of the year, something like that. If Golden Boy says catch-weight fight, Jose Ramirez

against Ryan Garcia-145, how do you think a fight like that plays out? I would love that fight. You know what? I think Ryan is a great fighter, especially after his last performance, man, he became a superstar. Nobody even mentions him not making weight. Nobody mentions

him, you know, nothing. It's just that he's a superstar. So it would be a huge fight for Jose. That would be the fight that Jose, you know him being him becoming a unified champion his win against hooker was huge then he fights for the end of spirit title and he lost that was a big you know it hurt them bad because Jose doesn't like to lose and he's a winner all the time so a fight against Ryan would be the biggest thing for him he would he would train like never before especially at a cash weight of

45 44 45 it would be good because if you see he He should have been in Walterwood maybe two years ago. He's a 10, 5-11. He's a big kid. He's been in Walterwood two years ago. But he's so disciplined and so dedicated and has that hunger to become champion again that he still wants to compete at 140. But he could easily fight at 47 if he wanted to.

He could compete against any of the 47 pounds. So a fight with Ryan at 45, I would love it. I would love it. I think Jose has a style to frustrate Ryan. Obviously, Ryan has that sharp, fast, powerful left hook. But, you know, I don't think I'll be, I don't think I'm, I'll be like Haney. I'll have a plan. Got to keep that right hand up at all times.

I'll have a plan. I'll do things that I would love Haney to do. Well, Robert, I know you're going to be busy tomorrow, man. Thanks for stopping by and giving me this time. Thanks for having me. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Robert Garcia for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast.

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