The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Sergio Mora might be having a change of heart

Episode Date: February 5, 2022

Chris is joined by his DAZN broadcast partner, Sergio Mora to talk about if he is starting to change his feelings about Jake Paul, and they discuss the biggest stories from the week. later in the show, Keith Thurman stops by to talk about why he hasn't fought in a while and what we can expect from him as he gets back in the ring. Finally, Chris is 5-1 when it comes to his boxing picks, he puts that record on the line with his picks for this weekend. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right. Let's start here. You are an unbelievable fraud. Do you know why?

Why? Why? I'm going to read a tweet from one Sergio Moore. You know what? I wrote that I knew you're going to come at me with it, but I said promoter, not boxer. I already know the tweet. I've been outspoken criticizing Jake Paul as a, quote, boxer. But got to give him credit as a hashtag boxing promoter.

You are already backtracking. By April 30th, you are going to be wearing a Jake Paul t-shirt and a subscriber to his YouTube page. Listen, a promoter is someone that can gather attention. That's it. By any means necessary, you get people to watch something. That's a promoter. I will never give them, I won't say never. I'm never giving them credit as a boxer, a professional boxer until he boxes a professional fighter.

He's a great promoter. This is just the beginning, though. Credit, or credit is due. By April 30th, you're going to be, I love Jake Paul. That's what it's going to be about. What do you think of the Taylor-sur-Rona rollout? Well, this is part of the promoter talk that we're talking about. Maddox, I mean, for him, I mean, it's not just him, him and Eddie Hearn,

Jake Paul and Eddie Hearn to actually be doing this in Madison Square Garden. I mean, the biggest fight, so much attention. And he's going to use his background. He's going to use his following. Everyone's going to be watching this. Okay, for that, I give him credit. The rollout was sensational. The red carpet was there.

We're all talking about it. This is going to be a big fight. I ran into Eddie Hearn this morning as we record this on Thursday. In the lobby of the hotel, by the way, this is Sergio Amora, former junior little-weight champion, DeZone Broadcaster, joining me here on the podcast. We are in, where are we, Phoenix, Phoenix, Arizona for the Bam Rodriguez-Cquadris, super flyweight title fight that we'll talk about a little bit later in the show. but ran into Eddie Hearn in the lobby.

And one thing he told me is they're already more than 3,000 tickets sold for Serrano against Taylor. There is an expectation that they'll zoom past 10,000. And from there, who knows, can they get 12,000, 14,000? Is it possible that Taylor versus Serrano could sell out the big room at MSG? Yes, it's going to be possible. It is going to happen. Not saying they're going to sell all those seats, but they're going to put those butts in seats. that's one are they going to get the viewers is it going to translate to subscriptions if he can do that

i'm going to be the first one to say how great he is for boxing but he's definitely but if he doesn't man he doesn't if he doesn't bring those subscriptions and then we just have a full house not the one bring it though taylor serrano his brother did his brother got a bunch of people but he was fighting but he was fighting like jake paul's not fighting taylor serrano are fighting they're the ones that'll drive subs but i do think they will drive subs like like there's an look all this past week, one of the big discussions was, oh, Valdez Shakur, Taylor Serrano, both fighting on the same day. What's the bigger fight? Well, A, it's pretty clear you're going to be able to watch both of them. They'll be staggered time-wise so that you can watch both main events. But

B, I think you can make a pretty strong case that Taylor Serrano is the bigger fight, is the bigger event. Not to take anything away from Valdez and Shakur, which is an incredible unification fight at 130 pounds. But Taylor-Soronoreau is a big. deal. Didn't Shakur Stevens tweet, didn't he tweet something about ESPN? Yeah, he wants to see them stagger the times. There you go. So for the fact that his competition is doing that, you got to give him credit for that. You got to give him credit for that. And he understands that this is equally as big of a fight. Maybe not, you know, it's just different. It's going to be two different fights, two different viewership that's going to be watching. Demographics are different. But he understands

the business of it. So I got to give Shakur credit for that. If they can manage to switch it, switch time zones like that and have both fights. Yeah, it's going to be a win-win for boxing. Bob Aram kind of stepped in it this week when he criticized women's boxing, effectively saying that the viewership of women's boxing is nothing compared to men. He compared it to European football to women's football or the Premier League, I'm sorry. Bob Aram is, I'll stop you right there. Bob Aram is 80 years old, man.

He's 90 years old. 90 years old. Where are you at your crumudgeon right now and you're what, 40? Yes. When you're 50-something or 50-something years from now, you're going to be worse. There's no way I'm going to be alive 50 years from now. Neither are you, by the way. Yeah.

There's no chance. But can you imagine the, I mean, he was a teenager in the 30s and 40s or whatever it was. You make it six more months. I'll be actually oppressed. So, you know, if you watch Mad Men like I do, you know, you know that? You watch Mad Men? I love Mad Men. So you know how.

The whitest show on television. You know how much prejudice they had. You know that back then there were, you know. Yeah. Yeah, but you really think that's not, it's a little misogynistic. It's certainly condescending. But I think the big thing is that it's outdated, right? Like, go back to the 1990s, and you had Christy Martin fighting in the 1990s.

The early 2000s, you had Leila Ali. People watched fights. Anne Wolf. Anne Wolf was a big one for me. Anne Wolf was when I actually. Lucia Riker, Mia St. John. There were a few women. There's no nothing.

As a fighter, those are the ones. I kind of looked at and said, wow, this can go somewhere. But you watched these fights for the fighters, not the fights themselves. I was talking to Christy Martin this week about boxing in her time. She talked about the fights that she fought effectively for free. She talked about the show she appeared on that her mom promoted, all the opponents that she struggled to find. That was what that generation was all about. This generation, not only do you have high-level fights,

or fighters, you have high-level fights as well. Taylor Serrano is an excellent fight, but it's one of many that are coming down the pipe. I mean, you've got Cloressa Shields against Savannah Marshall, 160-pound fight, that's must-see TV. Michaela Mayer may be taking on Alicia Baumgarder at some point this year. That's must-see. Go down the ranks.

Your stableman. Senisa Estrada, who has proven that she can fight at a high level in three weight divisions. Maybe before the end of the year, we see a rematch between Estrada and Marlon Asparza. Like, there are really good women's fight. They're not just, like, co-main events as Estrada's been, as Michaela Mayer has been, but they're main events.

Like, these fights we're talking about are main events on ESPN, on DeZone, whatever network we're talking about. Women have come a long way and they earn their right. So it's not like, you know, it's just something that just happened. So in the last 20 years, a lot has happened for women's boxing. and I got to give Katie, Taylor, and Amonisarano all the credit in the world because they're going to be the same venue of Muhammad Ali fought, Roberto Durant fought, Joe Lewis, I mean, that's Madison Square Garden.

I never fought there. I'm jealous. I mean, there's so many fighters that dream of fighting at the Mecca and they never get that opportunity. They're getting it. They deserve it, though. And I think that's going to be a big, that's going to be a point in women's boxing where it goes in opposite direction and they start headlining.

They start doing the paper. views and they start gaining their respect. Well, it's only going to grow. And the equal pay. It's right. And that's where three minute rounds comes in and a lot of other variables. It's only going to grow from here because these women we're talking about Katie, Amanda, Michaela, Sanisa, they are role models for other women who are going to come up the ranks

and have opportunities because they, in effect, blazed a certain trail. Last thought on this. He saw the rollout in New York on Monday. We'll talk more about this fight as it gets closer, but do you favor one over the other right now? I do. You know, for a long time, I think Katie Taylor's had fantastic footwork. That's what made her who she was, the fact that she had experienced, the fast hands. I can go on and on because that's one of my favorite female fighters.

But Amanda Seronical Punch, especially to the body. She knows how to break down fighters. She knows how to cut off rings. She's going to have the hometown advantage in New York. Well, probably more pro-Kady crowd, I'm going to guess. It's going to be both, but that's her hometown. We can agree on that. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And she had a good crowd when she bought it. Heather Hardy there. We were there for that fight. I think, I think Amanda Serrano has upper hand this time around. You know what? This time around. Now, you can ask me this question last year, I would say Katie Taylor. Yeah. I think, I got to keep it real. I think Serrano has, she'll be the favorite. You know what was interesting to me was Amanda Serrano's best weight, probably 126, but watching her and Katie Taylor go eye to eye, Amanda's the bigger fighter.

Like she's physically big. She's muscular. She has a wider shoulders. Yeah. Like Katie's more comfortable, I think, at 135. That's her long time weight. but Amanda's not going to be small in the ring by any stretch. And I do wonder how Katie deals with the power. Katie's been a little bit amateurish with her style. A lot of flurries looking to score points the old-fashioned way and not in the pro way. And she hasn't looked great in recent fights.

I think it's going to be a great fight. It's a coin flip type of time. I would never call undisputed champion amateurish, though. Her style. Stop there, all right. She's not amateurish. Her style is a little amateur. She just realized that she can't win with power.

But you know, we know what we're talking about. Yeah, I'm getting there, man. I wasn't a power puncher. I tried hard. No, you were not. I lift weights. I try to follow the technique of a fighter. When you don't have power, when you're not born with it, you're not going to all of a sudden learn it.

So Katie Taylor, even though she's able to accomplish so much, she's not a power puncher. And she understands that now. And, you know, she's in her mid-30s. It's another thing. So you're not going to get power the older you get. She's just, she is who she is. She wins off of speed, off of technique, off of experience. It's not going to be power.

It's not going to be youth, and that's why I think Serrano has the upper hand. There's so many good narratives in this fight. Katie's the Golden Girl, the two-time Olympian, the gold medalist, the star over the UK and Ireland. You have Amanda Serrano. Came up the hard way, not much of an amateur background, fought her way to seven world titles in seven different weight classes. I mean, it's why I think it's going to be such a huge event, man. Like when you get to fight week in New York, it's going to be wild out there. And you forgot the fact that she's Irish like you.

She is Irish like me. I'm not put, well, look, I'm. I'm Mexican. Yes, that's not Puerto Rican. I'm Latino. Okay. All right, we got a few things going on this weekend I want to get to. First up, Keith Thurman returns to the ring

after a two and a half year layoff. He fights Mario Barrios, putting aside the absurdity of this fight being on paper view. 75 bucks for Thurman Barrios is wild. Absolutely wild. And everything that is wrong with boxing. But it's an intriguing fight. Keith Thurman, if he wasn't coming off such a

long layoff, I would say big favorite over Mario Barrios. But Barrios, even though he's making his welterweight debut, he was a very big 140 pounder. He is coming off a loss to Javante Davis, but he looked good up until the point where he got knocked out. How do you see Thurman Barrios playing out? Well, look, I'm going to speak for Thurman first because I know what it's like to be inactive. I know what it likes to be an older, former champion. I know what it's like to have that hunger to want to get back and prove people wrong and realize that my body's not the same my my legs aren't there as much i don't have the same hunger to train i wake up sore more times from sparring and it takes a longer time to recuperate all that keitherman's going to be going through that

add the fact that he's had injuries and the age and the inactivity and we can't get into a fighter's mind and force him to be hungry so we only see the hunger when we see him fight and he's going to be in there against a hungry young fighter who has only lost to a champion. Tank Davis, I mean, it was a good fight up into those knockdowns, but you still got to give him credit for going through that. Tank's a beast. Tank's a power punching beast. Mario Barros kept getting up, kept wanting to take the fight to him.

I give him credit for that. There was moments he had a lot of success. It was an interesting fight, but the better champion won, obviously. So he takes that experience into an inactive, older champion like Thurman, who we don't know how hungry is, man, listen, this is one of those fights where Mario Barrio is a very live underdog, not just live, very live. So I talked to Thurman about this,

and he's coming up a little bit later in the show, and I asked him about the inactivity. I asked him about the hunger, right? Because that's been the criticism of Keith Thurman over the last two and a half years. He got married. He had a baby, and people think that changed him. That made him something different than the fighter we saw

going, you know, toe to toe with Sean Porter, toe to toe with Danny Garcia, both in their primes at that time. Do you believe that? Do you believe that, you know, you can lose the hunger? Do I believe it? I know it. I've experienced it. Yes.

And that's why a lot of fighters tell you, you know, hold your family life until you're done boxing or your later part of your career because you can't be up late nights feeding your baby at three in the morning when you're in camp, Mannix. You just can't do that. You have to get your eight, nine hours sleep. Well, for me it's 11 and 12, but you have to get your sleep. that don't know when Sergio's on the road he's gone for 12 hours i have never seen anything like it just 12 hours gone to quote ernest hemmy way i love sleep my life my life has a tendency to

life fall apart when i when i when i'm awake i don't think that's an exact quote but go ahead something like that i'm paraphrasing it but i can understand thurman i can understand one time and right now uh you know he has too much to juggle with and and he needs to discover himself and against mario boreals man i just think it's the right time for barrios The younger fighter, the fresh are still hungry. So you like Barrios to win? Man, I like everything about Barrios winning this fight. I need to know if one time can be great one more time.

Well, you know, Thurman, like people look at the Pacquiao fight and say, all right, well, he lost the all time grade. The fight before that, he was like life and death of Hosecito Lopez. Remember that? Like, he was a tough fight. Out of all the names, out of all the names that he's fought, I mean, Hosecito Lopez started his career at what, 1208, 1.30? I mean, maybe even lower.

He's not a welter weight. and he was able to rock Walter weights. He was able to hurt and maybe stop the career of Victor Ortiz. He was able to give everything to Keith Thurman. That was a majority of the decision, I think it was. I mean, Hossesito can fight. Mario Barros is a younger version of Hosecito Lopo. I don't love Barrios as a high-level boxer.

He had that secondary title when he fought Jervantes. Remember the fight before that, though? That was in L.A. I think you were there for that. When he lost to Akamov. And he got the decision, a gift decision. He lost that. So I think it can be outboxed, right?

And I think Thurman, even though I don't think Thurman hasn't in him to stop Barrios at this point, I think he's probably still a little gun-shy too. He's had a lot of hand injuries in his career. I think that plays into his style now. I think he's got enough to beat Mario Barras. But I don't know that if he has enough to get back to the top of the Welterweight division. At one point, he was number one.

Now he's probably what? Four, five, maybe? He'll be lucky to be in the top five. Now with a knock out of Mario Barrios, he'll be back, but I don't think he does that. When it comes to Mario Barrios, I just think he knows how to put punches together nicely. And he got that experience from the tank Davis fight. The body shots are going to be key, I think, with Keith Thurman.

Because anytime you're older, an older fighter like this, you don't want to get hit to the body by a younger champion. You know, activity is going to be key. A lot of things are going to be key. So this is a breakout moment for Mario Barrios, and it's there for the Taken. Yeah, that would be interesting if I just wish it wasn't $75 to watch it. All right. Let's talk with the fight that we're doing this weekend. The main event, Jesse Rodriguez, the 22-year-old, now superflyweight, going up against Carlos Quadris, the longtime superflyweight, long-time title holder, title challenger, one of the better superflies of this generation.

This was a card, Sergio, that originally started as Jesse Vargas against Liam Smith with Sarisa Katzor Rungvisai and Carlos Quadras as the co-main. Jesse Vargas had to bow out because of COVID. Sorung Vesai Quadris moves up. And then on Sunday, we find out that Sorongvati can't fight. Here comes Jesse Rodriguez. He was supposed to be on the card. He has never fought at Super Flyweight. But here he is moving up, effectively two weight classes, to take on Carlos Quadris.

Do you like this move by Jesse Rodriguez? If this fight was before those wars with, before the last fight of Quadras, I would I will maybe favor Quadris, but anytime you're dealing with a fighter, like what we're talking about with Keith Thurman, into their mid-30s, where they've already been through physical fights. Now, Quadras has been stopped in his last fight. He's 15 months inactive. So these are things that you have to take in consideration.

If this fight was before Gallo Estrada, I would say, no, too much too soon. I think they made the wrong mistake. But no, I'm not going that this time around. I think Bam Rodriguez is in the right opportunity. The opportune opportunity to actually do something. great. I mean, there's a world title on the line. If there was no championship strap, not only that, it's a green belt. It's the one we

all think about. Then I would say it's too much. Not this time around. He has the footwork. He has that South Paul style. He doesn't throw a lot of punches where he can get caught in between the wild shots of Quadrus because that's what Quadrus is good at. He'll punch in between the shots with looping shots.

Always dangerous to fight guys like that. Rodriguez is more patient with his power. He's very, he's just really, really good for being 22 year olds. So no, I think Bam Rodriguez is a good place against a former aging champion. You know, you and I, we do a show over on DeZone twice a week. We talk boxing all the time.

I've lost track of the number of times that you have said experience matters. You believe in experience. Yet in this fight, you are saying the younger, far less experienced fighter in Jesse Rodriguez, has the ad. Jesse Rodriguez, in his last fight, fought his most experienced opponent, Juan Carlos Burgos. Knocked him out. knocked him out. Good win. One of his best ones. One of the best ones. Probably his best. I mean, I'm guessing.

His last two were the best ones. Yeah, like any, look, he's an excellent prospect. But Carlos Quadris, his losses have come at the highest level. Yeah, he got stopped in his last fight, but look at who stopped him. He got stopped by Juan Francisco Estrada, and he had Estrada down in the third round. You called that fight. And granted, it was, what, 14, 15 months ago at this point. He's been on the shelf for a long time, but he has fought Estrada.

He has a win over sore run. The same sore rug beside that knocked Chocolatito went to the canvas several years back. He's fought Chocolatito. Went the distance with Chocolatio. Look at some of his decision losses. They are razor thin. Sergio, this is a real good fighter. This is a high-level guy.

And I wonder what happens if Bam Rodriguez can't get two quadris early? What happens if he can't stop? And Bam, like not to give away stuff from our fighter meetings, but Bam really believes he has an advantage in the later rounds. I don't see that. I don't see it. I think the advantage is Quadris because he's been there before. You just make the case for me.

Every fight that he just went through was a physical toll on his body. Quadras has been through wars. He's been with the best Chocolatito. Not only Estrada back to back, but McWilliams O'Royal was a tough fight for him. He had a lot of fights where he won where they were still physically taxing.

That's not because he's not even the Mexican style. He moves. He used lateral movement. He switches south paw. but they're still physical. You're having to go through the eight-week camps and then go to 12 rounds in a grueling fight and then go into rematches

and then it has a toll on you mentally. And then you add someone's personal life. You know, you're talking about fighter meetings. We can bring up his son. I mean, he's a father. Anytime you have a family, you're juggling a family and your camp and the business and the personal side,

that's another thing to throw into the mix. The kid's like seven, though. His kids have been around for most of his... Prime years. It just has a lot to do with with juggling the responsibility of being a fighter and a father. It was, I think, February of 2020, and you and I were sitting there when another old super flyweight fought a young up-and-coming super flyweight. And that's why he's great. And that's why we're talking about greatness when it comes to Chocolatito four-division world champion.

Someone that we can compare to like Roberto Duran. This guy's the greatest Nicaraguan fighter aside from Alexis Aguello. When we're talking about greatness here, that comes along every generation. So, yeah, we were surprised because the world was surprised. We're not talking about greatness with Carlos Guadro. We're talking about pretty good. A great Mexican fighter, not overall great. We're just boxing internationally.

If he can win against a young, hungry fighter like Rodriguez, then I believe he has another opportunity to prove that he's a great fighter, like Ayosrata, because Estrada is a great fighter. He's Hall of Fame material, a great Mexican fight, a great global championship fighter. Quadras is the fourth or fifth horse on that list. But with a win with a young up-and-coming buck like this and then getting into the championship fight, we're talking about Mexican greatness, overall greatness. Do you have any concern with Rodriguez moving up two-way classes for this fight?

No, because he uses his feet. You know, if he was a- Okay, but your power isn't always carrying you go up that way. It has nothing to do with power. His power is surprising. He's not got a box squad or something. He's a South Paul. He knows like he's those South Paul angles.

If he came straight at you and he was right in front of you with his power, that's different. But he's going from angle to angle. He has that Lomachenka type style where he's basically fighting you with his feet. He's confusing you with his footwork. I mean, it's really brilliant to watch his footwork. And then all of a sudden he pops you up front. He body shots. The left hand's really slick.

He's coming off two of his best wins. I think everything is in the right direction for Bam Rodriguez to do something special. That's why I favor him. All right. It's good fight. Let's finish looking back to last weekend. Junior Macabu, your guy. My boy. He wins and defend his cruiserweight title against the Biso Machuunu. Putting aside, Sergio, he didn't win. Like, Machuio won. I don't know what the judge you were watching there. My man, Steve Weiss felt, who I still think is the best judge in boxing. I don't know what he was watching on that card. He did not give that card to Machuio. I did. Maccabu afterwards, predictably, called out Canelo Alvarez. We know Canelo, Eddie,

Rinozo have at least a passing interest in fighting at cruise of weight to win a title in another weight class. Do you have interest in Maccabu Canelo? Yes. Not for the actual name that you're just talking about. Junior Macabu is forgettable. The name is forgettable, but what he brings to the table. I'm not just talking about a strap.

I'm not talking about a World Championship. It's the fact that he's going to help the legacy of Conello Alvarez, who we all love and respect and we want him to be one of the greatest, if not the greatest Mexican champion ever. There's always going to be that debate. Is he better than Chavez? If he can win a world championship in a fifth division, which is going to be two more than Chavez, which no Mexicans ever done, for that matter. No Mexicans ever done.

And only a handful of fighters starting with Tommy Herns have done that. And very hard to do. You need height to go up and wait like that. You know, Tommy Herckeo. Pakeo. But he started in the lightweight divisions where only three pounds separate. Not only that, but three pounds separate 105 to 108, 108, 108 to 112 to 115. That's already three, four weight classes.

Whenever you're dealing with junior middleweight and in the welterweights, it's six to seven pounds. Big difference. So that's the reason I think Canello can etch his name in history because he started out. He started fighting at 140, won the championship at 154, 160. Mind you, he's five foot eight and a half at most. So he's not carrying that weight. He has to get wider and more muscular. And then 160, 160, 175 to go all the way to 180.

And mind you, they're going to rehydrate to 200 pounds. That's greatness, Maddox. We're going to be talking about Canelo Oliver's for a long time to come because of it. Let me tell you something, though. Canello dismantles Maccabu. Doesn't matter. Well, it does because I'm watching the fight. And if I'm watching the fight, I don't think it's competitive fight at all.

That Maccabu I saw would get knocked out by Canello. I don't care what weight he is. He gets knocked out by Canello. He's not faster. He's not stronger. Sure, he's got some pop. But we witnessed history. It doesn't matter what you paid for it.

How much is that pay-per-view going to cost? Whatever it is, I'll pay for it. It's going to be better than the other paper-view that you're complaining about. Better than most paper views. But you're going to be paying for history. So if you're paying for history, it's worth the money. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't, and this is kind of like what I've gleaned over the last couple of days being down here.

I don't think Kenello's going in that direction. I don't think he's going to go towards Curz-Aweight right now. I think what he's deciding between is whether to fight Jamal Charlo or Dimitri Beavle in May. Those are the two guys that he's weighing. Eddie Hearn is pitching Beaville hard. PBC is pitching Charlo. Both fights are fine.

But you know what, Sergio? I am as confident as I've been in years. Then in September, we are going to get Canelo Golofkin 3. As long as Golofkin takes care of business over the next few months when he gets in the ring with Rioda Marada, I believe wholeheartedly we are going to get Canello Golochka through, which frankly is all I care about, because Gennady Gailoffkin is the only guy in the last, what, eight years?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened to Andre Charlo? What happened to the confidence there? I never had that confidence. I never had any confidence. What happened to you being the ringleader for that fight? I was. The most interesting, the best fight in boxing, to quote you, the most, what was it?

What was the word you used? The biggest fight in boxing. The biggest fight in boxing. The biggest fight in boxing. boxing. Now all of a sudden you're talking about Canello? Makes me sad to let that one go. That's where it's going. I'm just being a realist. That's the way it's trending right now.

Bickle, you call it realist? I call it fickle, man. Bickle, disloyal. Not a disloyal. I want that fight badly. A lot of people like, remember you were there when Andrea was yelling at me before his last fight. I got on video.

Everybody's like, I know, videos all over the internet now. There's like, Andrei checking Chris Max. There's no bigger supporter of Demetreus Andrade than me. There has not been, admit that. Admit that. There has been no bigger advocate for Demetrius Andrade than me. In the press, yes. That's where it counts.

But it's fickle. And now you're just using a word. And you lost all respect out of the man himself. So anytime you lose the respect of the actual fighter, come on, what do you got? That's because boxers. You boxers are insane. Like, unless somebody defends you. We have small, tiny, fragile eagles, Max.

You do. Don't hurt them. You're incredibly fragile egos. Don't hurt them. If you're not defended 100% of the time. We have big balls and small egos. Very small. Fragile's the right word.

You have very fragile egos. What I think is going to happen with Charlo, though. If he fights Canello, it'll be like Billy Joe Saunders. Like, he'll collect a big payday and we'll probably never hear from ever again. Like, that's just, it'll be too much of a hassle to kind of go back and rebuild at 160 or 168. I mean, I think it's where we're training. If I had to guess, it's just a guess at this point. I think it will be Canello Charlo in May.

But as long as we get Canello Galofkin in September, I'm cool. Whatever. I'm always going to be objective and give it to you straight. I think Charlo Canello is the more exciting fight, the more marketable fight. Because Bebo has done nothing. People has done nothing to earn this opportunity. Had opportunity. I don't know about nothing to earn.

Look, what did a Caleb plant do? Nothing. He did nothing either. Well, he got 10 million. That's what people is going to get. That's what he's looking to do. At least people has a better resume that Caleb plan. So don't talk about resume or what he done to deserve the golden ticket.

He's going to win over Joe Smith. That's pretty much what his resume is. If he can get Canello before Joe Smith. By the way, what I like, not to take this down a different path, but I like that Joe Smith had better be ever getting close on a deal. That's awesome. That's the biggest fight of light-heavyweight. That's a light-heavy weight.

We're going to find out who's the best at 1-7-0-8. Oh, that's a banger. That's a banger in New York. That's going to be a great fight. That's going to be like Godzilla and King Kong. Two guys whaling away in each other. In the New York, perfect time for that. Love it.

Sign me up for that. But I think Canello, Canello Charlo was fine. Canela wins. I think he knocks him out. Canello Bebo, I don't think he knocks Bogle up, but I think he out boxes them. The promotion for Charlo. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot. or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, it's exciting. You can do a, you can do a one of those behind the scene type, you know, specials. I agree.

Houston bad boy, Vince a clean cut Canelo, golfing, looking pretty. I agree. That's the best fighter in the world. It's just nothing. I've seen nothing out of trouble. Come on now. What, like, Charlie, his last few fights, have you been handing out of him that makes you believe, like, he's going to be competitive in a fight like that? His first fight at 168?

Yeah, he's undefeated. He carries the confidence and the swag of being a fighter. He has big power. He can end things in one, one punch. He has a youth. He has, he has, he just has that mean bad boy chip on his shoulders. He does. And the promotion will be good.

Whenever you're dealing with ignorance is bliss, man, man, and anytime you're dealing with a fighter that believes who he is, he is, he is. Ignorances. What? What is? I don't even know what? That's my philosophy. Maybe. All right. I'm going to end this right here. The more we learn about COVID-19, the more questions we have.

The biggest question now? What's next? What will COVID bring in six months? A year. If you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. Calhope offers free COVID-19 emotional support. Call 833-3-1-7-4-6-73 or live chat at calhope.org. Today.

The more we learn about COVID-19, the more questions and worries we have. Cal Hope can help with free COVID-19 emotional support. Call 833-3-3-1-7-3 or live chat at calhope.org today. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this,

and connect with this. We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. When we come back, my conversation with Keith Thurman. Fight fans, throw your best haymaker with a risk-free bet from Van Duel Sportsbook. Even if your fighter gets knocked out or tapped out, new customers get up to $1,000 back if your first.

bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing and you'll be able to bet on all the biggest boxing matches and UFC fights. Fandle offers all your favorite bets, choosing the money line to the method of victory, to which round the fight will end, and so much more. You can even parlay different fight bets together. The bigger your parlay, the bigger your potential payout becomes. Van Duel is America's number one sports book and is now live in New York. New York City is where I spend a lot of time. I am thrilled that Fandul is in New York. The app is so easy to

use and when you win, you'll get paid in as little as two hours. To place your first bet risk free, just sign up with the promo code boxing and make every fight night mean more with the Fandual Sportsbook app. All right, Keith Thurman is here, former

unified champion at 147 pounds. He is back on February 5th, we takes on Mario Barrios. It's a fight you can see on Fox Sports P-per-View. Keith, let's start here physically. How are you feeling? Always the questions around you often begin with whether it's an injury, conditioning. How are you feeling physically going into this fight? Strength and conditioning are feeling great. Injury-free. You know, my injuries are old. They're just the story that people talk about. Everybody else holds on to

my injuries. I don't let those go a long time ago. We've done recovered. COVID has been the main factor, my inactivity, and me not accepting any fight. You know, I just wanted something that I thought was exciting for me. You know, this is my career, and it's been a long time coming to get back. I had one fight offer that wasn't enticing because it was a little earlier in COVID, and it was without fans. And to go from the Manny Pac-Yau fight to in-studio fight with no fans, it just was unenticing for me. After that, they didn't call Keith Thurman because they realized Thurman's not going to say yes

to any boring old fight. Eventually, more time went by. It was time to start picking out dates. We tried to get on last year's schedule. I ended up having COVID after working the Pac-Yal fight in Vegas when I flew back home. And that set me back to my comeback being this year and not late last year.

So a lot of unideal situations have manifested, but luckily the hands are good, you know, the body is good, the mindset is good, and we're just days away from February 5th, looking forward to putting on a tremendous performance against Mario Barrios and looking forward to the challenge that this man is bringing to the table. Take me back to 2019 when you fought Pacquo. After that loss, like what was your reaction to it? I just disappointment, man, so much disappointment.

you know, I'm the fighter that said, I got to, oh, I'm not afraid to let it go. If you can beat me, beat me. If you can beat me, beat me. You know, the problem is I lost by one point. And in sports, anybody who's a real competitor, you don't even have to be a real athlete, just play a game with tick-tac-toe or anything, you know, a real competitor. When you're put in that situation where you know you have the capacity, to win, yet you found a way to fall short of that glory. To me, it's not just a needle or something

being jabbed into you. I mean, it's getting wiggled and twisted and turned, and it just hurts, man. The way those emotions manifested in me, it was very hard. Then after that, I had to have the hand surgery, which is an even more uncomfortable situation. situation. Questions are, will my hand ever be the same? Doctor says it's a simple procedure, but he's dealing with Keith Thurman. I'm a puncher. Can it really hold up? Can it really hold up to what I want to do with my hand and my future? And all these questions came up. I just lost my first career fight. And, you know, depression setting in, you know, I'm just eating, I'm just eating, you know, trying to drown some of my thoughts. I'm just eating away. Got up to one 90,

you know that you know I was able to get back down to 182 without a lot of effort just had to stop eating crazy but then eventually we got back in the gym we got our body down to 172 I walked I walk around a lot of times 25 pounds heavier than my weight division and because of that that's where we had to start this training camp at 25 pounds above but we know the mathematics we know the sports science and we brought it all together but time man time is heals all things. And after all this depression, you know, we just, we were still here. We kept living, you know, I commentated the, the fight with Porter and Spence, and my hand was in a cast, so I did that right after my surgery, you know, I got good positive feedback from the fight fans. Everybody loved the Paci-Yal fight. You know, there was, I grew my fan base because of the Pac-Yal fight. I have a tremendous following in the Philippines now. They love Keith Thurman. They love the kind of fight that I gave because they watched Manning.

And they know that when he fought Adrian Bruner, the fight before, it wasn't like a Keith Thurman fight. You know, so there's so much that I gained. But at that time, as I was going through it, I wasn't able to reflect like that. I wasn't able to see the positives. I was a little too focused on the negatives. You know, then we went around more. COVID struck in the year 2020. We thought it was going to be a terrific year, an Olympic year. I was hoping for it to be a great boxing year. And by the time my

hand was fully healed 10 months after surgery, we were in the midst of COVID and we just had to play by ear. We didn't know where boxing was going to be. So we're very blessed. You know, there's a very strict COVID protocol come fight week. I'm going to abide by, all the rules. We don't want to mess anything up. We want to get in the ring. And we want to put on a terrific performance, man. We want to be back in action in the Walterweight

division, one of the most exciting divisions that there is, and just remind the world who Keith Thurman is, what I bring to the table, and that, you know, I'm ready for any champion after we get past Mario Barrios. When you were kind of at the depths of where you were,

he mentioned the word depression. Did you think maybe you might not fight again at any point? No, I mean, hey, I fought all of 2019, practically one-handed, you know, so if my hand was never the same, you might not ever see the same style from Keith Thurman, but I would have made adjustments. I would have fought my career out to the end. You know, I'm a warrior, I'm a fighter. We just saw Gary Russell, Jr. fight with an injury, you know, and that's just how it is, man. We want to be in the fire, We want to be on stage.

We want to be champions. And even if we're not in an optimal situation, we're going to take the risk. You know, that's the gladiator. You know, they didn't ask the gladiators. How do you feel today? They said, come on, get out there. It's time to go.

You know, so luckily, you know, we have more freedom than they do or did them in that generation. But at the end of the day, the spirit within us is the same. and it's the spirit of a warrior. One of the things that gets brought up a lot when people talk about you, and I'm sure you've heard this countless times, is, you know, does Keith Thurman have the same fire that he had back in 2016, 17, 18, when you were, you know, fighting regularly, when you're in these firefights

and winning close decisions against Danny Garcia and Sean Porter, you know, you've, you have a family now, you achieved a lot in your career. And I hear it all the time. Does Keith Thurman have that same fire? How would you answer that question? I mean, if they were able to see everything that I put my body through, you know, you don't do that without having goals and aspiring for greatness. I mean, that's what Keith Thermon is really all about. So I get the banner, you know, like I said, I had thoughts about my hand after surgery.

So when you don't see Keith Thurman and then you don't see Keith Thurman and you don't see Keith Thurman, naturally these kind of. wave patterns are going to pop up in your head. So I don't blame any analytical person who takes that approach and puts a big question mark on, is he really this? Is he that? You know, his wife, his baby now, he's, you know, he's practically a Hall of Famer. Maybe he's done. That's, you know, that's how the mind works. That's what an analytical approach should sound like. But at the end of the day, I love boxing. And I don't think people understand my love for boxing. It's one of the purest loves that can exist on the planet.

I even told my wife, I was married to the game before I married you, you know. But luckily, the game will end and I'll still be with you. So there'll be a chapter where you'll get more of my time. You'll get more of my love. And she's feeling it now. She's feeling it whenever I'm in a training camp, you know, and she gives me my space so that I can live out this dream and so that I can provide for the family. You know, it is what it is. But for me, I win, lose, draw.

Keith Dharman, every time he steps in the ring is living his dream from when I was a seven-year-old boy and now at the age of 33, you know, if anybody, is a true dreamer, you know, whether you're aspiring to accomplish or you've already accomplished, you know, there's no greater sense of satisfaction besides to walk the path that you've chosen for yourself in this life. And this is the path that I've chosen. So it comes with criticism. It comes with doubters from the outside. But that's why it's very important that the fighters stay focused, that the fighters have their mind right, that they surround themselves, the camp that they need, people doing, who are going to encourage them, I know of my skills and my capacity as one of the greatest Walter weights in the Walterweight division today.

And I just want to continuously show that. And that's where my fire and my flame is. You know, I don't have the same, you know, dog in me when I was younger, you know, because feed me, feed me, feed me. I'm coming up in the ranks. I'm coming up in the ranks. recognize me, recognize me. I'm recognized. I've been recognized. So it shifts, but it doesn't change the overall intention, which is to be the greatest fighter that I can beat, which is to put on some of the most exciting welterweight fights in the Walterweight division, today, tomorrow, and the next day. That's what Keith Therm is all about, and that mindset will never change. Has being a family man now changed you in any way as a boxer?

It's just changed me as a human being. You know, so ultimately, there's a small leak over into boxing. But fatherhood is still semi-new to me. Baby girl's about to be nine months old. And there's one fundamental lesson that I learned from this child of mine so far. You know, I'm expecting many more life lessons to come. You know, you can learn from anybody. Age is just a number, right?

So you can learn from anybody. And what I learned from my child the most is watching her develop so rapidly in nine months, they learn how to roll over, so they roll over. They learn how to stand up, so they stand up. Then they fall down. Then they stand up. Then she falls down. Then she stands up.

And her development, she's a baby. So how did she get to where she was, to where she is? Baby steps. And how did she overcome any obstacle? No matter how many times she fell down, she continuously picked herself up. And sometimes it's hard in life, you know. But that is what life is about,

because till the day we die, you are here. You are here. You're in this moment right here right now. How are you going to live with yourself? You're down. You just lost a job. You got fired, you know, some loved one, whatever. It's a breakup.

Boyfriend, girlfriend. You know, things are happening to people, you know. But how do you pick yourself back? up, you know. So we as human beings, you know, it's not that we need to be cold-hearted and not let the outside world affect us. When you have an emotion, we feel it deeply like a child. They cry, and then they get up, they wipe the tears, and then they find the time to smile. They're out here, they're smiling all over again. It's okay to go through the array of motions, but don't ever, doubt that the spirit in you wants to live. The spirit in you wants to live and it wants to thrive

and it wants the best for you. And if you think otherwise, just try to hold your breath. You think you're done. You think you're done. You're fed up. Just try to hold your breath. The spirit in you won't let you because that's the power of life. And so with my philosophy and my understanding of these simple natures in life, how can I not pick myself back up? It's time to go. I'm ready. I'm ready.

It's time to go. I got up. You know, I got up. I've been working week after week. I've been putting in the blood and the sweat, you know. We've been training, you know. I got myself up. I've been on the diet.

I cut out my sugar, you know. I got back on my regimen, you know. And it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to just understand that you don't have to be in these lower states of vibration. You know, depression, sadness, anxieties, they're going to come and go. But if you can take a time, take a breath, deep breathing, relax, understand that no matter what it is, you're going to get through it. Change is the fundamental nature of the universe.

Today is not yesterday. Today is not yesterday. Every day is a new day. That's why this moment is called a present. It's a gift. It's a gift. Take the time to open up the gift of the present moment and see that there is something positive.

you know, and in each and every moment of life. In the happy, the sad, the bad, you know, I learned so much. You can learn from these negative life experiences. You learn from them. And that's the only thing to take away. So if you can't grab the lesson, then you're going to stay in the story of this happened to me and it sucked and it ruined everything. And I'll never be the same.

you know, that's mindset. That's mindset. So mindset is very important. There's so many positive speakers out there in the world today. We have a great access, you know, you don't need a psychologist, you don't need a therapist, but you do need to wrap your mind around greater philosophies that can help you lift yourself up and overcome these obstacles, these painful moments in life. Before I let you go, a win against Barrios, as you've said, puts you right back into the mix for all the fights you're going to be looking for. Let me ask you this way. More likely to face Keith Thurman in 2022, Terrence Crawford or Errol Spence? Errol Spence, we got the same manager. We've been, you know, we've been on different train tracks,

but slowly getting ready to collide for many, years. In an ideal world, Keith Thurman beats Manny Pachial and fought Errol Spence next. I predicted that I was going to fight Earl Spence in 2020. COVID hit. Thurman lost the Pachial. When Pachial came back, he was going to fight Spence. Spence wouldn't have fought Pachial if Thurman beat Pachial. That would have never been on the to-do list. That would have never been on the menu at the restaurant. he wouldn't have had that as an appetizer, entree, or anything of that nature. All he would have been seeing is Keith Thurman. So I think that's another small dilemma that happened and where a lot of my frustration came in is that when I fell short of victory,

it allows people to try to pretend like they can forget about Keith Thurman, you know. But that's why I'm coming back. That's why I'm really motivated. that's the kindling of the flame, you know. I feel like Roy Jones, y'all must have forgot. February 5th, we're coming back. We're going to put on a show. We're going to put on a statement.

And afterwards, I don't want to be the one to say it. I want you to say it. Oh, yeah, Thurman's ready. Thurman's ready. I want to see Thurman verse the world. It's Thurman versus everybody. That's 2022. Let's go.

Love it. Good to have you back, Keith. you definitely make that welterweight division a lot deeper and a lot better. Hope you have a big year in 2022, man. Good to talk to you. Awesome, brother. Thanks for all the support. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by our friends at Fanduel.

All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fanduel. And just a reminder, I am now five and one since I started making picks here on this podcast. Last week, I did have Junior Macabu winning that fight against to Beasomachunu. Didn't have him winning by him winning by. decision thought he'd stop him but one one last week not too bad this week i am focused in on the welterweight fight between keitherman and mario barrios and this is an interesting fight to me because thurman's been out of the ring for two and a half years haven't seen him since he's lost to manny packie out back in 2019 mario barrios decent fighter we last saw him late last year losing to

gervante davis so how do i see this fight i think thurman is the better fighter even though he's been gone a long time, even though he's 33 years old. I think he's the better fighter. He is a minus 186 favorite right now, according to FanDuel. I think he's the right guy to bet on. The trickier bet is how he wins this fight. Now, you look at Keith Thurman's record, and you see a guy with 29 wins and 22 knockouts. But what you don't see is that he has not had a knockout since 2015. That's right. It's been almost seven years since Keith Thurman's. last knockout. So that tells me that maybe as the competition has increased, Keith Thurman's power really hasn't gone with it. So I think Keith Thurman wins and I think he does it by decision.

I'd also be on the lookout for Keith Thurman maybe getting a favorable judging decision here. Thurman is the A side and sometimes the A side gets the benefit of the doubt from some of these judges. So Thurman by decision. Those are my picks this week. Do you like sports, pop culture, and everything in between? Then tune into The Sessions with Renee Paquette every Tuesday and Thursday on the Volume Podcast Network. Renee peeks behind the curtains with your favorite athletes, actors, musicians, and more to unveil the stories that really matter. Download the sessions with Renee Pockett wherever you listen to podcast, every Tuesday and Thursday, only on the Volume Podcast Network. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy.

Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a podcast.

It's a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.