The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Should Bivol be getting more respect

Episode Date: May 13, 2022

Keith Idec is back this week and talks with Chris about last weekend's Canelo-Bivol fight and talks about if Bivol should be getting more respect for his win, should Canelo still be considered the best pound-for-pound boxer, and what we can expect from this weekend's fight between Charlo-Castano. Later, Jaron "Boots" Ennis stops by to talk about his upcoming fight and where he ranks himself as a pound-for-pound boxer. #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I.'s Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix.

Well, Keith Ideck is back. He is with boxing scene. He is also a road warrior. He has been on the road for two weeks now, winding his way through the hotels in Las Vegas. Now, in Southern California, for the anticipated Jermel. Charles Charlo, Brian Castano rematch. How many laundry trips have you made, Keith? Because I've done these kind of trips before.

And it's always the question, do you bring enough clothes to not do laundry or do you have to stop somewhere and do laundry? Not for 16 days or 19 days. This trip will be altogether. So I have done some laundry. I brought every pair of underwear that I owned and I've done laundry still had to do laundry. So that's always fun.

Here's where you and I would differ there because I've done these usually in the summer when the NBA's got their summer league, USA basketball, some there's a fight mixed in between. Instead of doing laundry, I just like Amazon new underwear and just throw the other stuff out. Well, listen, you're Chris Mannix and you have an underwear allotment in your contract, I would assume. We're not talking about gold jockeys here, Keith. We're talking about Amazon version 999. Fruit of the loom, whatever you're wearing. The loom, yes.

We're talking about the lowest of low budget. Just, yeah, in Vegas, and maybe you experienced this, like, laundromats are like outside the nicer areas of Vegas. No, not really great. Well, you know, they actually, I stayed at the signature the entire time just because it was cheaper and it made more sense and everything. But not to relocate. But they had a laundry facility on site right downstairs. And here is where I'm staying in Manhattan Beach, California. They also have one.

But I was doing laundry yesterday, actually, writing a Jermel Charlo's story. And it was pretty sad. I was sitting in the laundry room waiting for my clothes to dry, writing a story on the little table. And I'm like, well, not exactly glamorous life I'm living here, you know. No, the life of a reporter is not as glamorous as some people think. There are some great moments. Don't get me wrong. But more often than not, you have moments like you just experienced right there. Well, you are in California for the Charlo Costagina. If I don't want to get into that, because that is a fantastic fight coming up this weekend. all the belts on the line at junior middleweight in that rematch. Before we get there, I want to kind of look back to this past weekend, Keith. Canelo Alvarez loses for the first time since 2013, gets outboxed, outworked, out everything by Dmitri Bevel in a light, heavyweight title fight. You were sitting there ringside. What would your biggest takeaway from that fight? Like, what do you leave that fight thinking about Canello? I just think that his ambition finally

caught up to him on this night. You know, he, He moved up to 175 again and ran into a guy who, frankly, is better than him, point blank. I mean, they can fight again, and they very, they might. You know, I think he was going to fight Gnady Golovkin first, but I do think his pride will want him to get into the ring or will make him get into the ring with Bivall again. But Bivall had a, had a great game plan. He was in better shape than Canello. Canello was languishing on the ropes because that's all he could do, really. He wasn't in the best shape. he made it perfectly clear that he spent almost as much time playing golf during this training camp as he did training.

I'm not saying that he didn't take training seriously, but he definitely scaled down his sparring from what I was told. And he was not in the type of physical condition that would have been required to beat Dimitri Bivall. And even if he were, Dmitri Bivol just is better than him. He's bigger. He's better. He had more ideas. he was able to execute his game plan, whereas Canello was just relying on trying to take him out. And Dimitri Bivol obviously has a very good chin.

So I just think that Canello, I'm not saying he underestimated him, but I do think at a certain point, Chris, you're going to bite off more than you can chew at some point. And he just kept moving up and he kept succeeding. And it just got to the point last week, Chris, where we were sitting with Canello in a room. There were about maybe 10 of us interviewing him at the same time. And Eddie Hearn was sitting next to him. and they were talking realistically about moving up and beating Alexander Usik. And I said, we're getting a little carried away here.

Let's everybody calm down. Let's see what happens Saturday night when you fight a real light heavyweight in his prime. Remember, Kovalov, Chris, obviously you call the fight from ringside. That was not an easy fight. The result was spectacular. He knocks him out in the 11th round, knocks Kovalve unconscious, basically, and wins a light heavyweight title. But that fight was very close on all three scorecards going into the 11th round. So people who have sort of rewritten history here and say, oh, well, Canello's barely lost.

That is just not true that he's barely lost rounds. He's had very competitive fights with Sergei Kovalev. The Billy Joe Saunders fight wasn't as close on the cards as that fight, but it was not an easy fight for him. And I'm not saying all these fights should be easy for him. He's a small guy who started his career at junior welterweight and has done some incredible things as he's moved up. But I just think we may have gotten to the point, or they may. may have gotten to the point where they were, they needed to be knocked down a couple of pegs. And that's sort of what happened Saturday night.

Yeah, I think with the Kovalov fight, we fixated, not you and I, but like the public in general, fixated on the knockout and not the fight itself. Because you're right. Kovalov came in with a sound game plan. A game plan, by the way, that Joel Diaz told me like hours before the fight that they were effectively going to try to duplicate. Like they were going to try to operate behind the jab and just throw more right hand. than Kovalev was willing to do.

I think we got fixated on the outcome of the Kovalev fight and not how difficult it was. And the fact that Bevo, unlike Kovalev, was an in-his prime light heavyweight who was not coming off like a tough fight against Anthony Yard, who had been off for some time, had a full training camp, and came into that fight as ready as he possibly could be in that moment.

So I think we didn't, you know, we didn't take that enough into account. But the thing with Bevo, like, you see all these things all week long, right? You see how, you know, the hoopla and the pageantry of a Canello fight week doesn't really get to him at all. It keeps the same kind of emotion all week long. You see the confidence that he has in his game plan. He's got a great team around it. What I didn't think was going to happen, Keith, was I didn't think he would engage with right hands on the level that he did.

He out power punched Canello in this fight. Like, Canelo threw a lot of power shots, but Bevo threw more, according to CompuBox. And I didn't think that would happen. And I based that on what I saw from Bevo in his last six fights. I mean, his first 13 fights, he was a knockout artist. 11 of the first 13 end by K.O. Last six, all decisions. And in his last fight against Salamov, like, it was just boring.

Like, he was just jabbing him and not trying to get him out of there and not throwing right hands. That was an opponent he should have finished off. and he didn't. So as much as I liked all of Bevol's tools, you can't get past what he had been recently. And that's, that to me is like the great question of why. Like to hear his team explain it, they say he's, he just wasn't motivated for those fights. But Keith, we've heard that time and again from guys before. Like that, that's not a new excuse to make for why you struggled in previous fights. I didn't think he would go out there and trade power shots with Canello Alvarez. He did that. And that to me was the biggest surprise of the night.

Chris, I think you're right. And also I think what fighters often say, especially elite level fighters like Bivall, is when I fight the best guys, in this case, Canelo Alvarez, it's going to bring the best out of me. And that oftentimes happens. You see guys fighting up and down to their levels of competition. And it worked out basically perfectly for Dmitri Bivall because let's just say, Chris, he had continued knocking guys out. Now, his knockout ratio went down to some degree because he was fighting better opponents, of course. You know, he's fought Joe Smith, who he pretty much dominated, except getting clipped at the end of the 10th round. But Joe Smith is now the WBO light heavyweight champion. He beat him, I don't know, 10 rounds to two, 11 rounds to one or whatever it was. But let's just say that Bivall had continued knocking out everyone. And he was, let's say, 19 and 0 with 18 knockouts as opposed to 19 and 0 with 11 knockouts going into maybe he doesn't get the Canello fight. Maybe Canelo says, man, this guy is big, strong, skilled, smart, I probably shouldn't fight him. You know, so it worked out the way that it should have.

Yes, he took some criticism along the way for becoming boring and kind of complacent. You know, he would build leads on the scorecards and then just kind of, it looked like he was coasting in the second half of a lot of those fights and just content to get to the end of the fight being way ahead on the cards. But again, it worked out perfectly for him because he did get the fight that he wanted all along. Remember, Chris, after he was, you know, he fought John Pascal, which was. was three and a half years ago on HBO. He said right after that fight,

I'll come down to sit. Now, at that point, Canelo was not even at 68, but he said he would come down to, he was going up, of course, to fight Rocky Fielding at that point. But he said he would come down to 168 to fight him.

He would do whatever was necessary to get that type of high profile fight and that type of payday. He had to wait a while, but it all worked out in the end for him. And now he has a lot of leverage because, as he said after the fight, you know, we're going to have to, we're going to have to renegotiate a little bit here for me to go through with this rematch. Now, of course, there could be legal recourse if he doesn't.

But Andy Ruiz said the same thing. But he did get a little more money too, right? He did. He did. You're right. You know, he does have some leverage now and good for him because, you know, Dimitri Bibow went through a lot of things going into this fight. You know, a lot of the political stuff came into play here. They didn't even announce him being from St. Petersburg, Russia in the ring, which I thought was ridiculous.

the WBA was mandating all kinds of things where you couldn't play the Russian national anthem and he couldn't have anything reflecting that he lives in Russia. He was born in Kyrzikstan, but has lived in Russia for the last 20 years or so. Family is still there too. Family, yeah, his wife and two sons

lived in St. Petersburg, Russia, and that's where they were when the fight occurred. That's where he went home to, look, none of us like what's going on in Ukraine, but that's not Dimitri Bivall's fault. The WBA to, what do you know, Chris? the WBA doesn't rank Russian fighters, but when they can take several hundred thousand dollars

from Dimitri Bivol, who is a Russian fighter, then it was okay. He can't say that he's from Russia or acknowledge Russia in any way, but they got their check. So, I mean, it's just all a little silly. I mean, to announce him from Indio, California was just, and I understand David Diamanty's, of course,

just doing what he was told to do. It's not his fault. But ridiculous. Yeah, it was, you're right, he did, I mean, he was the B-side in every possible way in this fight. So he's going to want some respect if they do it again, which raises the question, Keith, do you think that they'll do it again? I mean, Canello was all over the map in the hours after the fight.

In the ring, he told me he thought he lost and he wanted a rematch. At the press conference afterwards, he said he thought he won and was a little bit ambiguous about taking an immediate rematch. Do you have any kind of feel for, you know, what Canello does next? And if he does go straight into a Golofkin fight, is it still as big as it would be, you know, coming off this loss? No, Chris, but just to go back to what you said in the beginning there, I think what he told you in the ring was how he really felt. Canelo Alvarez, an honest guy, you know, he knows he lost the fight. He knows he didn't do enough to win.

And then when he got around his people in the back, you know, I'm sure they said, hey, you know, it's not good for you to say you lost. Do you really, oh, you really won the fight, people trying to hype them up and everything. And I'm sure they probably told him he won. I'm sure there were countless people being like, no, no, you won, 7.5. That's how I had it. And Chris, I mean, one thing that we haven't discussed yet as it relates to Canelo Bivall, yes, the right guy won. But boy, it wasn't reflected on the scorecards or what we saw in the ring was not

reflected on the scorecards, right? Because I think you had it 117, 111, I would certainly say that's a fair score. right, just watching it from ringside while I'm writing on deadline. I had it 116, 112 for Bibball. There's no way that anyone could convince me that you could find seven rounds of that fight to give to Canelo Alvarez or even six to make it a draw. And we had certainly two of the judges, and Steve Weissfeld and Dave Moretti are two of the best judges, I think, in boxing, two of the steadiest judges.

Even Dave Moretti is 77 years old, but I still think he turns consistently in some of the best score cards in the sport. And I thought that they were off. I thought all three of them were off. All three judges gave the first four rounds to Canello. That just didn't happen. You know, I'm not saying Bivall was winning three rounds to one, but he certainly won at least one round, maybe two of the first four.

Yeah. And he was down. I split them. I split them in the first four. Which I thought was fair. You know, so it was 40 to 36 going into the fifth round. And then he won seven of the final eight rounds on each of the three cards. And it was a really rare instance.

in that all three judges scored each of the 12 rounds the same. We never see that, virtually never see that. At least the right guy won. But you still come away from it feeling like, why was Canelo Alvarez again given the benefit of the doubt? He didn't throw a lot of punches. He was completely outclassed in this fight. He lost.

He definitively lost. And oftentimes what we hear is the roar of the crowd gets to the judges, which is true in a lot of cases. They are human beings and they might get caught up in punches. that are not actually landing. The crowd was dead silent for most of the time. Why? Because Canelo Alvarez was getting beaten,

and his own fans knew it. They were not loud for most of that fight. I mean, every once in a while, you'd hear a Canello chant or something, but I think they were as surprised as maybe a lot of other people sitting at ringside in that he was being beaten the way that he was. Good for Dimitri Bevel and Joel Diaz

for not taking the 12th round off, because he needed that 12th round on all three judges' cards to win. could you imagine if he took it off thinking, you know, which he would have been justified to at least be thinking that I've got this fight in the bag. I'm just going to stay out of trouble, avoid those big shots, try not to get knocked out. If he had done that, it would have been a 114, 114 draw

on all three judges' scorecards. And that would have been the story. It would have been the judges got it wrong again. It was amazing. I'm with you. I don't see how you could score all four of those first four rounds for Canello. It just doesn't make any sense. Now, to go back to the original point,

does he do Golovkin next? Do you think as the dust settles and time passes, do you think it's more likely he goes to Ganadi or he tries to get revenge against Beavol? I think he goes to Golovkin first because I think he will. Now remember, oftentimes it's designed for Canelo to fight in May and then fight in September. More than half of the time, that has not happened.

He's fought as many times in May and November 3 as he has fought in May and September 3. dating back to 2012. So there have been times when he was supposed to, you know, turn around relatively quickly for a fighter of his stature in the sport. And he hasn't. So could I see it being pushed back to maybe November as opposed to him fighting in September?

Because he just had a tough fight and he just lost and he needs some time to recuperate maybe mentally and physically. I could see it not happening September 17th. But I do think that he'll go forward with the original plan of fighting Ganadi Golovkin a third time next and then revisit the Bivol fight after that. I do think that he will fight Bivol again just because, as I mentioned earlier, Chris, his pride will want him to do that. And to be an elite level fighter and to be arguably that, you know, he was arguably the pound for pound,

most people had him pound for pound number one, you have to have an arrogance about you that says I can beat anybody, which is why he was talking last week, as silly as it might have been, about beating Alexander Rusik in a heavyweight fight. but he believes in himself. He believes if he goes back to the gym and him and Eddie Raynoe, maybe put more emphasis on boxing training than golf. Maybe that was a big part of it.

He did mention the weight. So I would not be surprised if they come back and try to put a weight clause in the rematch contract whereas maybe it's still a light heavyweight fight, but they can only weigh up to, I don't know, 172, 173. Which he could have had in this fight. but elected to not do it.

He could have had a rehydration clause in this fight, elected not to do it, all things that could have forced Bevel to be more uncomfortable going into that fight, which Conello has experienced because he did it with Mayweather when he was the B-side of that fight 10 years ago. You know, one of my questions after this is like,

Bevel made the suggestion about coming down to 168 and fighting Canello for his titles. I kind of love that idea. Like, make Beowl come. down to your weight class after you face Golofkin, fight for all your titles. Like, the goal of fighting Bevo at 170-something is to get your hands on that light heavyweight belt. Even if you beat Bevo in a rematch, do we really want to see Canelo continue to campaign at light heavyweight? I just don't think he's a light heavyweight. I think we've seen kind of

the ceiling for Canello Alvarez, and that's 168 pounds. The guy started his career at 140. Making it all the way to 168 is a huge accomplishment. Becoming the best fighter at 168 is a huge accomplishment. There are plenty of good fights for him, great fights for him at 168. I'm not sure that going back to 175, fighting Bevo, maybe you beat him. Do you really want to see him against Better B.F? Like, these are not, I mean, they're interesting fights, sure, but their fights, Canello would be an underdog in, at least I think so.

Yeah, and I think maybe one thing we learned, another thing we learned on Saturday, Chris, is that, I wasn't sure he was going to do it even if he won, but I don't think we see Canelo Alvarez fight Betterbeyev, even if he fights Bivol again at light heavyweight and wins the title, because Better Biav has shown some flaws, especially defensively, and he's an older fighter now. He's 37 years old, but I do think he will beat Joe Smith next month in their unification fight, but he's a huge puncher, man.

And Canelo's chin has been one of his greatest assets throughout his career, but there were a couple of times in this fight, maybe more than a couple of times, where Bivol got his attention. He wasn't hurt, but he got his attention because Cinello backed off and he was like, all right, well, I felt that a little bit. And he did admit that.

He said he was never hurt in the fight, but that he respected Bivol's power and he felt it at times in the fight. So I wouldn't expect him to fight better Bév, and I thought that might have been biting off more that he could chew even before he lost the Bivol. But look, I think if they come to Bivol and say, we want to fight you at 168,

I think Bivol says no problem and drops down because he's not a huge light heavyweight. He has said all along that he would fight Canello at 168. I don't think he would change that tune now. And yeah, he'd be, he hasn't had to fight at 168, so you don't know how he would react, but he feels certainly that he can do it. And I think it would be appealing to him to,

to potentially become the undisputed super middleweight champion. And if he does that, then he could move back up. He would retain his WBA light heavyweight title and then still fight Better Beav or Joe Smith, I think it would be better Biev. And then he could potentially, you could argue,

and back to back fights, become the undisputed champion in two weight classes. That's a great point. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, and since we've never had a four-belt super middleweight champion before Canelo, four-belt super middle-weight champion,

four-belt light heavyweight champion, that would be historic. I mean, that's like Hall of Fame stuff right there for Dimitri Beaville. It's a great point. And I can see the strategy behind it. Canelo, by the way, also, and I brought this up a couple of times on air. Like, he went vegan for this fight or mainly vegan for this fight.

Like, I'm not sure why you change your diet when you're moving up and wait for the heaviest fight of your career, the biggest significant size-wise fight of your career. There was just a lot of things. You mentioned the golf, and I'm bringing up the diet. Like, it just, you could have done more, I think, in preparing for Dimitri Bevel. But we'll see what happens. He's got time to figure all that out. All right.

Let's move to your fight this weekend where you'll be in Southern California. California in Los Angeles. Brian Castano, Jamal Charlo, the rematch from last year's draw. You've been in L.A. for most of the week around these guys. What's kind of the vibe out there? What kind of feel are you getting for this fight? There's a genuine dislike among them now, which I always love that. There was not before. I think Brian Castanio has taken it very personally that Jermal Charlo has repeatedly said that he thinks he was lying about his biceps injury, which postponed the fight almost two months. He said, you know, he was out there. He said it much more colorfully than this with a lot of curses. But Jamel Charlo basically said, you know, he postponed the fight and said that

he had a slight tear to his right biceps. And then I saw him in Instagram videos running and swinging his arm and not throwing punches, but he was running and he was swinging his arm. And you can't convince Charlo that Castanio did not make this up. Now, Castanio, you know, has told me and many other people what happened he was sparring against terrell gawcay and terrell goschay has confirmed that this happened um and he and he hit him with his elbow i think or something something happened in sparring that was not supposed to happen they stopped the sparring he went uh he tried to take some a few days off and um you know and just rest and then he went and got MRIs and everything and and said he had a slight tear to his biceps he didn't want to go into the fight compromised so he they postponed

it two months that really infuriated jermel charl um and and castanio who's a very very very mild-mannered guy and very polite and likable has really taken offense to it. And maybe that's part of Charlo's strategy a little bit to get to get him riled up a little bit to make him, I don't know, get off his game plan a little bit and try to knock him out. But, you know, Castanio, for all intents and purposes, Chris fights the same way. He comes forward. He's like a bull. I don't, he didn't do it quite as much in the first fight because, you know,

Charlo heard him multiple times in the fight. But I think that's what he's going to do. I don't think he's really wired to do anything. anything else. So I think it's going to be a great fight. You know, it's in a historic venue for boxing where there's been a lot of great fights. So it's going to be an interesting night at what's now called Dignity Health Sports Park, which doesn't have a great ring to it, I would say. But no, Morrow and Al has, yeah, has taken to calling it the Punch Bowl or whatever. But the bottom line is this venue. I don't like Punch Bowl.

Sorry, I don't think it up with Morrow. But, but, but, but, but, but, Look, this venue tends to bring out the best in fighters. We've seen it over and over and over again. Look, I think this would have been a great fight, whether it was in Toyota Center in Houston or wherever. But I just think that adds a little bit more to it, the historic nature of this venue for bringing out the best in fighters. Well, I think Castanio had to get that fight out of Texas.

I mean, you know, the two scorecards that were close, fine, but 117, 111, Nelson Vasquez, that was one of the worst score cards of 2021. Like, no way. Chris, in the post-fight press conference, even Jermel Charlo said, well, I'm not really sure about that, but, you know, I thought I won, but not like that necessarily. You want to go 14, 13, 13, that's fine. Like, it was a close fight. A lot of big punches landed, but 1711, you had to, I mean, it could happen to him again. Don't get me wrong, but at least being in California's more neutral ground for Brian Castanio.

Now, the question I think a lot of people are asking coming in is who's going to be, who's going to gain more from the first fight? Like, who's going to be better after the first fight? Correct me if I'm wrong, Keith. But like it seems like there's, I don't want to call it conventional wisdom, but like there's a stronger belief that Charlo is going to be better in this rematch, whether it's because he learned how to deal with the pressure of Castanio over 12 rounds because he's the more powerful one. punch guy who, as you said, did hurt Castano during that fight. That seems to be where a lot of the opinions are going right now. I'm not so sure about that. I mean, like, Castano, that wasn't an aberration. Like, that's how Castanio fights and he's really good at it. Like, Patrick Tashara is

not Jermel Charlo, but I was ringside in Indio when Castanio just beat the daylights out of Tashara by pressuring him for 12 full rounds to take his title off him. You and I both saw, you know, him fight Erislandi Lara. That's another decision I thought he should have gotten a few years ago. Michael Soros a good fighter. Castano fought him and beat him. Like he's good at fighting this way. Like, and I think he's going to have the same level of success getting on the inside of Jermel Charlo. Now, he's still vulnerable to getting timed coming in. Charlo's excellent with that. He can land something big. He can end this fight with one punch, whereas I don't think Brian Castano can. But I believe this is just as competitive a fight as it was the first time around. And I'm,

I'm actually kind of leaning towards Castanio in terms of getting better after the first fight. I think Castanio learned a couple of things too off fighting Charlo and will make adjustments accordingly. How do you see it? Well, if history is any indicator, Chris, I would say that I would favor Charlo in that he's the one who has succeeded in a rematch. He's only had one rematch, of course, against Tony Harrison. I thought he won the first fight against Tony Harrison. It was a very close fight, but I did think he deserved to win, but Tony Harrison won the fight. And then they came back in, well, it was not really an immediate rematch because Harrison got hurt, but it was a year later. They fought again. And then Charlo was ahead again in a competitive fight. I think he was ahead six rounds to four, and he had knocked Harrison down.

I think it was the second round or third round. Same venue, too, also in Ontario. Yeah. Right, right. And so, but then he knocked them out viciously. in the 11th round. So if there's someone who has, maybe you could say made adjustments or learned from a first fight and come back to win the rematch, only one of them has done that

because Brian Castanio has not had a rematch in his career. So history is on Charlo's side. I could see what you're saying about Castaniel. The only thing is Charles' power, you know, he's one of those guys whose knockout ratio doesn't really reflect how strong of a puncher he is because he can really crack.

And he did hurt Castaniel in the second round of their fight. And then he heard him multiple times in the 10th round. I would say that Castanio, I don't think Charlo was hurt, but he did knock him into the ropes with a left hook in the third round. Charlo kind of fired right back, so I didn't really think he was hurt, but the punch affected him. And it's the first time that I can remember really seeing Jermel Charlo affected by a punch

in a fight like that, although he did come right back from it. So I think his punching power could be the equalizer in this fight. I do think he's going to win. I wouldn't be stunned if he stopped Brian Castanio in this fight. I think he's going to, you know, I think Castanio should, I can say will because who knows what judge, I think Castanio should win a decision. Like if this goes to the scorecards, I would favor Brian Castanio because I think he knows how to fight this way.

And you've got to keep him off you for the entirety of 12 rounds to beat him. And he's going to throw a punch. He's going to get on the inside. He's going to be successful that. way, I think Charlo's going to need to knock him out to beat him. I could be wrong, but I think that's the way it's going to go. One thing to note from a judging standpoint, Chris, the three judges are Glenn Feldman, Zachary Young, and David Sutherland from Oklahoma. But Charlo has history with Glenn Feldman, and it's history that would be favorable to Castanio, in that he got it

right several times when in Charlo fights. He had Charlo behind 69-64 when he came back to knock out John Jackson to win the WBC titles six years ago. So he's a guy who has scored Charlo fights the way they have unfolded in the ring. So although he's an American judge from Connecticut, he's one of the better judges in boxing as well. So I think they got a very, and they went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. So there was no one like Nelson Vasquez judging this fight. They've got a good, Zachary Young, I think, is an underrated judge from California.

I agree. He's got a lot of attention, but he's pretty good. younger judge who's uh who's really come on in the last couple of years um and sutherland is a guy that a lot of promoters seem to like to work with he's a he's a i don't know if he's underrated but he's not well known because he's from oklahoma but he's been getting more high profile assignments over the last few years and uh and is a competent judge as well so they have a good panel of judges but like we said in the beginning chris when we're talking about canelo sometimes you just don't know what even the best judges in boxing are seeing that you're not seeing so

I just hope we don't come away from this like we came away from the first fight and that we felt it was controversial. I mean, the first fight was very competitive. So the fact that it was a draw doesn't bother me all that much. Some people thought Castanio did enough to win. But here they are again. They both have 12 rounds to figure it out. And hopefully we'll get a knockout. So there's no kind of controversy on the scorecards.

But look, the right guy won last Saturday night. having been in boxing for as long as you and I have been involved in it, should we expect it two Saturdays in a row? Well, probably not. Well, it would be three Saturdays in a row because Shakurr-Stevens in the previous Saturday clearly beat Oscar Valde. So three Saturdays in a row, boy, that's asking a lot of this for, Chris. Imagine, Keith, asking judges to do their job at a competent level.

Imagine. How dare we ask those guys to do that? But I agree. I think I like Glenn Feldman. and I like Zach Young, and we'll see what David Southala has. I don't know too much about him, except that he is from Oklahoma. And I've seen him in some of those Texas shows, I believe. But, you know, we'll see what happens there.

So, by the way, before I move on, props to Showtime for keeping this on Showtime. This is an excellent card. I love Ennis Clayton as the co-main event as well, Ennis, a rising star at 147. Like, this is what boxing needs. This could have been a pay-per-view, and they probably could have justified it because of the first fight. but I'm glad they kept this on the main network. It's going to increase the attention. It's going to be better for both these guys in this fight,

whoever comes out the winner, even the loser, if it's a competitive fight. Absolutely. And then the expensive fight for Showtime to put on the network, but Stephen S. Manoza made sure that this fight was on the network. It'll be, you know, the highest profile fight, I would assume. Easily. Even as we move forward toward the end of the second half of the year here, it'll probably wind up being the highest profile fight that they'll put on the network.

And as you said, it was discussed internally. Al Hayman had thought about putting it on pay-per-view, which I think would have been a bad idea. And here we are. But you're right, Chris. I mean, putting the best product on in front of the most eyeballs possible is the end game, or it should be the end game for everyone. And they got it right in this instance. It's going to be great for showtime, great for both boxers, great for boxing to have a high-profile fight get this kind of visibility. All right, Keith, on the same night, I'll be down the street from you, a little bit further down the street. I'll be waving from Ontario, California. Ontario's not close.

I've been to Toyota Arena for Harrison Charlo, and it ain't close. No, it's not. I won't even be flying into LAX, so that's how not close it is. Gilberto Ramirez is coming back. Still undefeated, 4168-pound champion. He's taking something of a stay-busy fight against Dominic Bucel. I don't necessarily want to talk about that fight specifically, but Ramirez is kind of a man on island right now.

He spent a long time chasing Canelo. He spent the last year chasing Dimitri Bevel. Both those fights seem highly unlikely to being on the radar, the real radar of Gilberto Ramirez. He's kind of, he's a popular guy, Keith. He draws decent crowds. He's a fun fighter. He's got that super middleweight title in his back pocket, now fighting at 175. As you look at the landscape at 175, is there a big fight for Guilberto Ramirez?

I do love, I give him credit. I tell him this all the time. Like, you, Gilberto and Bob Trigger send these great press releases, like long stories, basically, about how, you know, you're challenging this guy, good quotes, all that stuff. But I don't know what's realistic for him right now. Do you? No. And unfortunately for Roberto Ramirez, who's a nice guy and always brings, you know, he's a tough guy. And he comes to fight and, you know, those two fights are just.

see Hart were very entertaining. But he's in the same position right now that he was three years ago when he was with top rank. It's the same story. I mean, he's calling out Canelo. He's calling out Canelo. Fight doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen, especially now that he's a big guy and he's at 175.

And we've already discussed on this podcast how Canello is best suited for 168. I don't think that's a weight that Gilberto Ramirez can make at this point in his career. So is that realistic for him? I would say probably not. It's also not the highest profile fight for Canelo Alvarez. also would require him to work with Golden Boy promotions. Let's not discount that possibility or that factor. I don't think he wants to do that.

What are you talking about? Canello tweeted, I mean, Oscar tweeted at him to come back. Right, no, yeah, come back to the best promoter. And, yeah. That's your work. Yeah. No, I'm sure the reunion is in the works. But I don't know what the realistic options are for Gilberto Ramirez because, you know, he's

undefeated. He's a, you know, relatively popular fighter. Nice guy, you know, comes to fight and everything. but, you know, he's probably going to have to fight one of these. And Bivol's not going to fight him anytime soon because he's waiting on the Canelo rematch. And so we'll see what happens. But I don't know. I mean, it seems like every fight for Gilberto Ramirez is a stay busy type of fight.

And frankly, the last fight against UNESCO Gonzalez, which is everyone thought he would just blow Yoniski Gonzalez out. And he certainly did not. That was a competitive fight before he stopped them in the 10th round. And no one was really expecting it to be that competitive. I don't think based on what everyone. perceived to be left of Yoneski Gonzalez. So I don't know.

You know, you hope Goberto Ramirez gets to the point where he gets a payday out of it, you know, against a top level fighter. But based on what I've seen, I mean, if he, you know, I'm not saying it's going to happen Saturday night in the fight you'll be calling from ringside. But maybe someone's going to pick him off at some point before he gets that huge fight. You know, the obvious marketable fight for me is Joshua Bwazzi. Um, Bwazzi not all that well known in the U.S., but is a decent name in the UK, undefeated,

Olympic silver medalist, fun fighter. You know, he comes to the ring with a lot of power. He trains with Virgil Hunter. So he has that kind of as part of his backstory. And look, it's a makeable fight, if nothing else. I mean, you've got Bawesi represented by Eddie Hearn and Matrum. You've got Ramirez represented by Golden Boy, both these guys fight on his own. I don't know where you'd put that fight.

Do you do it in Southern California and try to take advantage of Ramirez's fan base? You go over to the U.K. And would Ramirez go to the U.K. for a Bawazzi fight? But, you know, those are two kind of rising contenders at 175. No belts would be on the line. But it's a fun fight. And I think it's one that they'd be genuine interest in from boxing fans. What do you think?

Yeah, I think so. And also would be, you know, like you said, it would be a big fight in the U.K. As well, Boatzi is pretty popular and they love their boxing in the U.K., much more so that. then it seems that they love boxing here in the U.S. So if you put Bozzi, Goberto Ramirez at 02 or whatever, remember, I would say this though, Chris,

you know, Bozazzi does not have an easy fight on May 21st. You know, Craig Richards is pretty good. Craig Richards really pushed Dmitri Bivow. And you could say that Bivow might have fought down to the level of competition in that fight, whatever the case, that's on Bivol. And Craig Richards gave him a tough fight, probably won five rounds of that fight. So you're talking about a guy who won,

Craig Richards won more rounds against, against Dimitri Bibball, then Canello Alvarez, right? So let's not just say that Joshua Bawatsi's got to, not that you were saying that, but that he's got to walk over May 21st because he certainly does not. No, he doesn't. It's just that if he does win and then Gilberta wins, the timing kind of matches up there. You could do the fight in like September, whatever.

Maybe if Conno doesn't go on, you know, the Mexican Independence Day weekend, you put Zerto on there, you do the fight. I don't know. The landscape is pretty barren as you look at potential top. opponents. I think Bwazzi is, I mean, that's a rockam-sock and robot type of fight, I think. Like, that's a really fun fight between two guys that can punch. And I'd love to see it. I hope that Golden Boy in Matron feel the same way and get together and make that fight. Last thing for you, Keith, I was on the phone with somebody who's in Manny Pachiao's orbit. And after Pachial conceded

the election this week over in the Philippines, I asked this person like, you know, will we see Pacquiao back in the ring in the next six months? And the person said kind of tongue-in-cheek, why that long. Do you think that Pachial is, what, 43 years old right now? Didn't look great against Jordanus Ugas? What are the chances that we see Manny Pachial boxing once again? Probably pretty good, Chris, because his whole focus for the last few years was becoming president of the Philippines, no matter how unrealistic that might have been.

Now that that's not, he's not, I wouldn't imagine he's going to invest any more time in his life running for president in the Philippines. He was not beaten in this election. I mean, he wasn't even a factor in the election, right? So the Filipino people made it pretty clear that they don't think Manny Pachia would be a competent. As much as they love him, they don't think he would be a competent president.

So I think maybe while he wants to serve the people of the Philippines. Which may not be wrong, by the way. Like, you know, they may not be. I mean, could you look, if Donald Trump could be president, I guess anybody could be. True. But if we were talking in this country, which obviously has nearly four times as many people as the Philippines, imagine if Floyd Mayweather was running for president, what would be happening?

We'd be like, what are you nuts? But that was a real thing in the Philippines, right? But eventually they got to the point where they at the polls, they did not take it all that seriously. So I guess to answer your question, I do think that he's going to fight again. And primarily, I think it would be a financial decision because he's still Mani Pakiow. He didn't, he lost to your Dennis Ugas. I mean, there was no. controversy about the scoring or anything.

I thought he lost eight, nine rounds maybe. But he didn't get beaten up to the point where you'd be like, ah, he doesn't belong in the ring anymore. And he was only one fight removed, although it was two years removed as well, from beating Keith Thurman and what was a very competitive fight. But Keith Thurman was undefeated in his physical prime going into that fight. And Pachiao knocked him down and beat him by split decision. So yes, I do think that Manny Pachia will fight again.

Who knows who, you know, maybe it'll be a two. tune up type of fight or, you know, maybe a lesser opponent than your Dennis Ugas, of course. But Pachial has a financial expectation that most fighters don't have. So maybe he will take another tough fight and he doesn't want to, he probably wouldn't be able to get up to fight a B-level welterweight. So maybe we'll see him fight. But I don't know who it would be because it, you know, the fight that was often talked about for Pachial was Crawford.

And Crawford certainly seems like he's going to finally fight Errol Spence Jr. not that I'm pinning that on Crawford entirely, but it looks like they're finally going to fight. So then, you know, maybe, I don't know, there's enough PBC welterweights for Pachial to fight, right? So I do see him coming back sometime later this year, because what else is he going to do? His political aspirations have been dashed here,

and he's a competitive guy, and he didn't, as I said, he didn't look like he didn't, he looked old. He looked, yeah, he was 42, I believe, when he fought Eugas, and he looked every bit of 42. But guys are fighting much later into their lives now. And I wouldn't, again, would not be surprised if he fought again. And I would actually be surprised if he did not fight again, I guess is what I'm saying.

Yeah. I agree with you. I think it's unfortunate because if you look at the list of potential fights for him, big fights, at the top of it, you're talking about Spence and Crawford on the lower levels, whether it's Ennis, Virgil Ortiz, Connor Ben. I'm going to take a time out here. Yeah. Anyone who puts Manny Pachiao in the ring with Geron Ennis should be arrested.

You know what? As I speak, Keith, like, is it crazy to think of like Eddie luring Pachia out of the UK to fight Connor Ben? Like, well, that's a fight Pachia can win. Right. And obviously it would be a huge event in the UK. I mean, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we shouldn't discount him working with other promoters at this point either.

But do not put him in the ring with whatever they do. Don't put him in the ring with Geron Ennis to a lesser degree Virgil Ortiz. but Geron Ennis, Keith, Mani Pachiao in a different country than Geron. But don't, Keith, don't you think this ends, it's going to end for him with him knocked out cold? Probably. The only way this is going to.

It's unfortunate because. We've already seen it, right? We saw it almost 10 years ago. He was knocked unconscious by Juan Manuel Marquez. And I remember tweeting that night, it's been a great career. And at that point, he was only 32 or whatever he was. I mean, 32 years old,

I was like, man, that was vicious, and he's been through a lot of tough fights. Maybe that's enough. And then he came back and look what he did. So who knows, you know? I hope Freddie tells him not to do it. He won't, but I hope, you know, Freddie's always said, like he'll tell him when it's time. It feels like it's time. And he's told, I think he's already told him that.

Yeah. And he sticks with it. And he ignored it. And he ignored it. Like, don't work with him, though. Do you really want to be responsible or partly responsible for him getting knocked out cold by one of these top guys at 147? I don't. Yeah.

I would. Connor Ben, though, is interesting to me because I, Connor Ben has not been tested yet by a guy that could punch, and I think that's purposeful. That'd be a fun fight in the UK. Like, you know, Pachio wasn't in the era necessarily of Nigel Ben, but was closer to it than others. Yeah. Fighting Connor Ben at 147, you could develop a story around that and that would sell out Wembley, you know, to do that fight in the UK. That'd be a massive event.

Yeah, no, I agree, Chris. Bring Paco over there and it would be a great way for Connor Ben, even though, He was 43 years old. Connor Ben beats him. It still takes him to another level, of course. Another level. It would be an enormous event. So that's not a bad idea.

And he becomes more mainstream in the U.S., which he's not right now, as big as he is in the UK and growing in the UK. Nobody casual really knows him in the U.S. Now, that's a fun fight. See, look at us. We're creating. Tell your people over there at the zone. We should be matchmakers.

Make it happen, you know? Look, if Jolian Mazone can do it, anyone can do it. Wow. We'll end it with that, Keith. Keith, Ideck, read his stuff over at boxing scene. Follow him on Twitter at IDEC boxing. Keith, I will Amazon you some socks for your appearance. I don't want those fruit and a loom underwear.

Don't send me that cheap stuff, you know? Absolutely not. All right, man, I'll talk to you soon. When we come back, my conversation with Geron Ennis. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the

hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fight fans, take your best shot with a risk-free bet of up to $1,000 from FanDuel Sportsbook. Even if your fighter gets knocked out or tapped out, new customers, get up to $1,000 back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing to bet on all the biggest boxing matches and UFC fights. Choose from the money line to the method of victory and so much more. Fandul is America's number one sportsbook.

The app is so easy to use and when you win, you'll get paid quickly. And Fandle's sportsbook just launched in Ontario, Canada. To place your first bet, risk-free, just sign up with the promo code boxing. All right, Boot Tennis is one of the most talented fighters in the 147-pound weight class, rising star, undefeated on Saturday. He will put that record on the line as the co-made event on the Showtime card headline by Jermel Charlo against Brian Castanio. Boots will take on. Castillo Clayton, an undefeated fighter himself. That'll take place out on Saturday.

It can be seen only on Showtime. Boots, what's going on, man? How are you? What's going on, man? I'm telling. And her, you know, chilling, getting ready to go to the photo shoot, you know, just chilling. So I saw an interview you did. And look, all fighters have confidence in themselves.

But nowadays, with Canello losing the subject of whose pound for pound number one comes up everywhere, you were asked a couple of times about your opinion on it. You said you put yourself at number one. How much of that is like, you know, you bravado? How much of that do you really believe? Do you really believe right now you're the best pound for pound fighter in boxing? Most definitely. I just don't hide the belts to show it, but I feel like skill-wise, if I'm a pound with skill-wise, I feel like I'd be number one. How should pound-for-pound be kind of done? What do you think is the right way to do it?

I feel like it should be skill-wise and what you're doing, what you're accomplice, you know, in boxing. Yeah, but how do you balance the two? Like, you know, I didn't, so I didn't drop Canello that far because I'm not going to punish a guy for daring to be great. you know, moving up to 175 and challenging. But, like, how do you balance the skill versus the resume? Abbas, you can't even be mad by keeping on my number one because he went through, what, four-way classes? Yeah. And he tried to do it at 75 again.

So you can't even be mad to keep him at number one. But it is other guys out here, like Earl Smiths and Travis Crawford that could be number one too. So, I mean, who knows? But to balance it, too, I don't know. It's for us, people are opinion, you know, and that's how you, you got balanced your opinion against the skills and the accolades and what they've done in, you know, boxing. So I feel like it's people's opinion, basically, to me.

You know, when Shakur Stevenson beat Oscar Valdez a couple of weeks back, after the fight, he said, I belong in the top 10 on pound for pound list. How important is it to you to wind up on those lists? I mean, it's very important. You know, that's how you build your legacy too by getting on Pover and Pounda List. All the Grix was on the Pampo family list. So if you're not on the Pover Pound Lists, you're not really doing nothing. So that's a goal too.

So it's coming soon. Well, along those lines, when did you first know that you had real talent in boxing? Honestly, all my life. I've been d'xton since I wasn't even really walking. I was in like a jumper, and I've been in a gym. But I realized that once I started like really realizing it, once I start winning like tournaments and stuff like that. And I'm like, yeah, this, like, I love this sport.

And I can go and like change about me, like, you know. Who was the first person to tell you that you could be really good in this game? I mean, well, everybody was saying it, but, you. You know, I was a little kid, so I wasn't really paying no more. I'm just having fun. And I'm doing the same thing now. People still say that same thing, you know. I'm just having fun with it.

And that's the main key right there. Was there someone, though, whose opinion really resonated with you, stuck with you. You're a product of Philadelphia. A lot of great fighters come out of Philadelphia. Was there somebody in that area that said something complimentary to you that's really stuck over the years? Nah. And just, like I said, I'd just be having fun with it. I just be doing my own thing.

You know, I didn't know, nobody never really said nothing or anything. But it sounds like my brothers and my dad. But that's about it. You know, I'm always locked in. Has boxing always felt fun to you? Or has it felt like a job at times? No, it's fun for me. It's like, you know, it's like a kid at the candy's door.

You know, it's fun for me. You know, I've just been having fun and doing my thing and putting on the show, you know, it's like a second home for me. And you have, I mean, you're one of those guys, and you remind me of Floyd in a way that has just extreme confidence in his own skills, no matter who the opponent is.

I was watching some interview with you on YouTube recently where somebody asked you about watching film of Clayton, and you said, not really, you kind of focus on you. You know, why is that? Why do you believe that it doesn't, I mean, do you believe that the opponent doesn't really matter and that what you do is most important. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about you better than yourself,

and you're getting better each and every time out. So I really focus on better at myself and being smarter, you know, and working on the things that I need to work on in a gym and stuff like that. But, yeah, you know, I really don't watch film. Well, I don't watch film because just because I got for someone that way, I don't mean they're going to fight you the same way. They could come in and do something totally different.

So with me and my team, we always prepare all, around the board. Like in this, in this camp, we had, we had sawpaws in this camp, we had pressure fighters in this camp, we had boxes in this camp, we had super middle weeks in this camp, we had light heavies, we, we all around, you know, we had, we had like one, one guy that was the 140 first speed, but it just, we, we, we prepare all the way around, you know, you know, wherever this fight go, we always ready, and we're going to be ready. You know, you talk about getting better. Um, the last couple of fights, you have faced probably your most experienced opponents to date with Thomas DeLorme, Sergey Lipignettes.

How have you gotten better because of those experiences? I got better because, you know, first of all, being able to be in the ring with those guys. And, you know, they did court former world champions and beat some and put up good fights against those guys. So me put my skills against those guys was great, you know. And that was experience right there for me. You've talked about being ready right now for the Errol Spence's, the Terrence Crawfords. You're in line for one of the titles that Spence has right now. When did you feel ready?

Was there, I mean, was there a point in the last couple of years where you really started to feel like I can take on the very best at 147? Like I always said, I've been ready. I feel like I was ready when I was 18 and 0. I just, I just, I'm just waiting for my opportunity, and I feel like after this fight, there's only big name fighters after this. I feel like I do my thing on Saturday night, and I do it in a big team,

and it's going to be, you know, a big name fighters or a world title. So we'll see. So even like, I mean, I understand every fighter's confident, but there wasn't like an experience. I mean, Lippinets, you went a little bit deeper into the fight. Of course, Delorme, I mean, I was really impressed with the Delorme May knockout.

I thought he'd be the guy that took you eight, nine, ten rounds, whatever it may be. Were any of those fights important for you as you kind of move forward? I mean, you could say that it was important because you could say that Lippon this fight was important because it put me in a better position and boosted my, you know,

my superstardom and stuff like that. But, yeah, you can say that. And Thomas is a Lermeree too because I got them out of there early. Yeah, you did. That was an incredible performance against DeLorme, that just first-round knockout. As you look at the, you know what the Welterweight landscape looks like. You know, it's Terrence Croft, Sarah Spence. God, I hope they fight at some point this year. I'm sure you do on some level as well. Like, are you anticipating getting to fight either one of those guys or are you kind of looking at the vacant scene when one or both of them move up?

I mean, if they do fight at the end of the year, that's fine. but if not one of them, they can have me, you know, and fight me. So I feel like it's better to take a war title from somebody than fight for a vacant belt. But if I fight for a vacant belt, so it would be it. You know, I won a vacant belt and defend my belt and collect the rest of the belts and then move up to 154. You've done something that I really wish more fighters would do and not a lot really kind of have the courage to do,

which is effectively be a promotional free agent. to sort of do it on your own, on your own terms. You have a deal with Showtime, which is fantastic for you. It's obviously helped build your platform or build your fan base up there fighting on Showtime. But why did you make that decision? And how hard, if it was hard, was it to make the decision to do this on your own?

Well, with me and my team, my day, you know, Karen Duncan, and it wasn't really hard. You know, I'm saying, I always fight on Showtime. So Showtime always showed me love. And it was putting me a great position, so why not? You know, and we'll see where this journey tickles, you know. And I can't wait to continue to keep shining and performing for, you know, my fans and friends in Showtime. And I'm ready to beat the new face of Showtime.

So you might as well call me much to sit time now. I mean, that's a great nickname for you. You know, when I watch like Canello, I know Canello is on another level, but when I watch Canello kind of bounce back and forth between promoters, between networks, just going for the biggest fights. For years, I watched Miguel Cotto do the same thing, bounce between promoters, just getting the biggest fights. I often wonder why guys don't do that?

Why they don't take advantage of the flexibility you have being a boxer? Why do you think that is? Why do you think people are so committed to tying themselves in to one side of the street, so to speak, and not maintaining that flexibility? I'm not sure. I can't speak on, you know, these other guys. You know, everybody have different motors

and different things for these situations. So I don't know, but I like the way that I'm, you know, coming up and I like the way that, like I say, Showtime and put me on a platform. I appreciate those guys and Mr. Benoza, you know, always showing me love and things like that. So I don't know. Everybody got their own way, but I like my way. You know, I'm going to continue to keep shining rock with Showtime. I just bring it up only because we, you know, but the boxing fans have dealt with Crawford,

doing their dance for years. At 147, around your age, you've got yourself, as you know, Virgil Ortiz, Connor Ben, three really exciting

welter weights who bring a lot to the table, who are all eventually probably going to be fighting for titles. Are you at all afraid that because of the different promotional outlets,

different broadcasting outlets, that those fights will wind up being talked about instead of actually happening? I'm not sure, but I know on my end, we're going to see you. And I know my team and we're going to make it happen around. So we won't turn down nothing, no fight. So when we call for those guys or the time come, we're going to see us,

and we're going to take those guys. And it's up to them to accept it or not. If you could pick either one of them to fight in your next big fight Ortiz or Ben, who would it be? Probably Ortiz. Really? Why? You got a bigger name than Connor been right now. And that's the fight that the fans want to see, and I want to see it, too.

Just don't tease us, Boots. We got to have it. We got to have it, man. I can't do 10 more years of Will Edison Ortiz fight. Will Edison, Ben fight? I mean, boxing fans suffer, man. There's so many great fighters. yourself included.

And when you get in the ring, boxing's like, it becomes the thing everybody's talking about. You know, when Fury and Wilder fought, everyone was talking about boxing. When Canello gets to the ring, everyone's talking about boxing. Crawford Spence,

everyone will be talking about boxing. It's just, you know, that, I, we really need to have those fights more than usual. Yeah. Oh, you don't got to worry about that on this end. You know, I'm accepting anything and everything.

So it's up to those guys. But either, either guy, I'll tell you, either guy, it doesn't matter. which one it is, though. So it don't really matter to me. I'm just ready. You know, I'm hungry, and I just want to continue to keep being great.

Well, love to see it, man. First up, Castillo, Clayton, that's on Showtime on Saturday night, the co-made event to Jermel Charlo and Brian Castanio. Good luck, Boots, and I hope we're talking very soon about one of those fights. I really do. Thank you. I appreciate him. Definitely.

Let me handle business on Saturday night first, and then I got you. Good to talk to you, man. Appreciate you. And when we come back, my picks this week brought to you by Fandul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here,

unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Tough week last week. Like most people, I picked Canelo Alvarez to win by decision. Didn't go my way. Dmitri Bevel really surprised me, as you heard me talk about early in the podcast. But I'm going to bounce back this week,

and I'm going to do it picking an upset. The big fight this weekend. 154 pound title unification fight undisputed for all the belts, Jermel Charlo, Brian Castagna. Now, Castano is a slight underdog right now at plus 178. I like Castanio to win. A lot of people are saying that Charlo is going to be the one that adapts from the first fight between these two guys.

I don't think so. I've seen Castanio fight some really good fighters and fight them in an effective way, whether it's Patrick DeShera, Aristolendi Lara, Michael Sorro, he's done well. And he was excellent at getting on the inside against Charlo in their first fight. So I think he does it again. I think the fact this fight is in California and not Texas will benefit Brian Castanio. And I think he squeezes out a close decision, which answers the next question of how this fight ends.

Castanio, by decision, plus 300 per fan duel. I think that is the best bet to make this weekend. So tough week last week. Canelo, I was going to say, let me down, but no, he didn't. He didn't really let me down. It was a great fight, and he dared to be great in that moment. But I didn't get the Canelo pick right. I'm getting this one right.

Brian Castanio, by decision, upset over Jamel Charlo. That's my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Geron Ennis for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And Ryan Garcia, I want you to know, I agree with you on Sergio Mora. Sergio, you don't know shit.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. In 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a hear,

unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.