The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Tank Davis vs. Ryan Garcia, It's finally on

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

Chris joined by his DAZN colleague, AK, to talk about Tank vs. Ryan Garcia, should both fighters take tune-up fights, the Crawford-Spence fiasco, and should people be interested in a possible Whyte-Joshua II? Later, Regia Prograis stops by to talk about his upcoming fight. #Volume #Herd #ColinCowherdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the volume. Podcast Network. Big show for you today. Regis Progrey, the former 140-pound champion. He joins the program a little bit later on. He is finally getting another opportunity to fight for 140-pound belt three years after he lost his title in a close match against Josh Taylor. I talked to him about that and several other things. But it's been a pretty busy week in boxing with a major

event announced. Ryan Garcia, Tank David. Terms have been agreed to. Network deals have been aligned, and we are going to get Ryan Garcia Tank Davis, assuming both of these guys get through interim fights, which are scheduled to take place in January. Talk about that and a lot of other topics. One of my good friends in this business,

the co-host of the DeZone boxing show with Ack and Barak. He is Ack himself. He joins me on the show. I figured there's no better time to bring you back than when Jervante Davis, finally books a big fight because I know as an avid Gervante supporter I know you were reaching your breaking point here

like you were you were kind of on the on the brink of abandoning your Gervante support if he had not booked this fight. I almost. First of all, thanks for having me on the show. I was about to jump on that Chris Mannix bandwagon for a second but I said let me hold off something is going to happen and it did. Yeah, it did. And we are going to get Garcia versus Davis, presumably in April, just to run through some of the deal points. The financial terms between Gervante and Ryan have been agreed to for weeks now. I was reporting it back in late October that they had reached an agreement on the financial aspect. It took a couple more weeks for the networks to get aligned. This is going to be a Showtime pay-per-view. Showtime will produce and distribute it. The zone will be paid some kind of seven-futable.

figure fee and retain the right to sell the pay-per-view on the DeZone app, the DeZone platform, everything that DeZone does. So, you know, we were just, you know, just a couple weeks after, Ack, we lost out on Spence Crawford, we get Tank versus Ryan. Give me a reaction to this deal being all but signed, sealed, and delivered. Yeah, well, I mean, that part alone always worries me just a tad bit, you know, unless fighters sign on the dotted line, I could never really. really take that to the bank.

So, but you would, you would, here's the benefit of having an interim fight, right, those guys. So you build up more momentum, you know, guys get excited because you're watching a fight where the Apple card could be upset here. So it creates more anticipation for the showdown in April. So I like both guys fighting, but there's always a flip side to that. There's always somebody can get hurt, whether it's a cut, a headbutt, somebody could lose. I mean, it's unlikely to happen.

but it's a possibility, but I like the risk. I think risk is okay, both guys, even though Javante's interim fighters is no walking apart. You know, that's a tough fight. That's a real fight. And those are the type of fights where I don't think you would give Javonte to credit because of, you know, he's not fighting a household name. But, Chris, be honest on this one.

Is this fight that Javante's fighting in January 7th? Is that a risky fight? It's a risky fight because he's going up against Hector Garcia, who is one of the hottest guys right now at 130. He's going to be facing a physically smaller man, but Jervantes is not a big guy to begin with. But Hector Garcia is coming off a 2002 where he beat Chris Colbert and he beat Roger Gutierrez. Those are two high-quality wins. The point, Ack, is if like if Hector Garcia had picked up one more win in December at a high level, level, he'd be in the conversation for fighter of the year.

He wouldn't win it, but he would probably be top five, top seven, whatever it may be, because he'd have three quality wins. He would have kind of, in a way, a Bam Rodriguez type of year. So this is a really good fight. And I give Gervante a lot of credit. I mean, I don't love that there is an interim fight taking place. And this, I was told, was because Ryan Garcia requested it. Ryan Garcia did not want to fight on January 7th,

didn't believe there was enough training time, didn't believe there was enough time to get his body down to 136. So it's, from what I understand, it's on Ryan Garcia. This fight is going to take place in April. But this is a real fight for Gervante Davis. And I'm very curious to see who Ryan Garcia takes on in his interim fight. I know Joe Gousin's a smart guy. He's going to have some ideas about who he should face.

I mean, it's kind of amazingly, Ak, like, Javier Fortuna would have been, like, think the right guy for this, right? Because he's kind of a heavyish-handed Southpaw, former title holder. I don't want to say he, Javante's a much better fighter than Fortuna. But, like, he kind of resembles him a little bit. What do you think about Ryan? Like, what should he be looking for? Look, he took care of business already.

I mean, I like, now, I think that Javante set the bar. Javante's not fighting a soft touch. he's fighting a real opponent, an undefeated fighter that, like, to your point, he's a smaller guy, but Javante's not a big guy. So I think he's putting a little pressure on Ryan now. Look, Ryan, you know, can't fight the

Uber driver going to the arena. He has to fight a real fighter now because there's that measuring stick. A name that comes to mind, and obviously he's tied up in talks or order to fight, Shakor Stevenson, I'm talking about Pitbull Cruz. I mean, I know it's a tough, risky fight. I know

that wouldn't be an interim fight, but Honestly, if that fight was announced for Ryan Garcia, I wouldn't be upset. And I would have Ryan as a favorite in that fight. So that's the name that jumps out at me for a fight for Ryan Garcia for January. But I don't see that fight happening. I think he has to be strategic. You know, you brought up earlier. He has a great experience trainer, Joe Gousson,

that's going to pick the right opponent. But I like him fighting a softball. I would like him to fight a guy. that, you know, that nobody's going to resemble a guy like tank, but at least the stance, you know, get them warmed up and ready. But it has to be an exciting fight, man. I'm curious. I don't know what direction those guys are going.

Yeah, I was talking to somebody in Garcia's camp on Monday, and they were just kind of beginning the process. I think January 21st is going to be the date for Ryan to come back in his tune-up fight. And Ryan, he can't wait till April. Like, he just gets too antsy and too into his own head. that I think it's good that he's going to get out one more time before April. The name that I've been coming back to is someone that's not a household name, but fits the criteria for what you're looking for.

Jezrelle Corralis is the name that I keep circling back to. He's a former 130-pound champion. He's a southpaw. He's riding a three-fight winning streak coming off a pretty impressive win. His last time out, he's about 5'5 foot 6. which puts him in the range of height for Gervante Davis. He's not powerful. He's only got 10 knockouts on his resume,

but that's good if you're Ryan Garcia. You don't want to take on somebody with some real pop behind them. And I think Corralis, because it's yet another southpaw that Garcia would face, because he has some of the same physical dimensions, I think a guy like him makes the most sense. Yeah, I like that. I like that name. There's another guy that I thought about last week.

Now, he's not a South Pole, but because obviously, you know, the PBC and the zone, they're coming to some agreement. I would like to see Ryan fight a Mario Barrios because it's that measuring stick with him fighting. And obviously, he needs time to get to that catch weight. So I see Ryan fight at 140, maybe even 141, 142, a catch rate to get ready for that April fight. And we all know that Barrios can make that weight. I like that fighter. I know his name hasn't been out there in the mix. But once you bring him to the table, people are going to talk about him fighting Tank what Tack was able to do to him.

Now let's see what Ryan can do with a guy like Barrios. Yeah. I like that fight for him. Yeah, but, Doc, don't you want to see Ryan? I want to see him under 140. Like, I want to see him starting to make his way down towards that 136 pound limit. Like, I want to see him at 138 for his next fight, progressing down.

I don't think Barrios, after moving up to 47 to face Keith Herman, I don't see him getting down to a lower way. I mean, for the right. I mean, for the right amount of money. But could Barrios get, I mean, I don't know. when last time he fought below 140. He's a pretty tall guy. That would be, I think that would be a lot for him to do.

But like, I just think somebody non-threatening, somebody that's a southpaw, somebody that fits the dimensions of Tank Davis to me makes the most sense. I think before we move on, we got to give credit to everybody involved in this. Because, you know, we beat up on boxing people all the time, justifiably so,

for the most part. But credit to Mayweather Promotions and Al Heyman for getting it done. Credit to Lupe Valencia. and Golden Boy for getting it done on Ryan's side. Credit to DeZone Showtime for finding an equitable agreement that works for both of them. And credit to the fighters who simply were not taking no for an answer here, who went to their respective teams and said, this is the fight we're going to make.

Don't move on to something else. Don't change your mind. Don't come to me with this other game plan. This is the fight that we both want. And it got made. And I hope, I'm not going to say I believe it will be because it's boxing. But I hope this becomes a blueprint for future fights. I hope this becomes something that we can look back on and say,

look, this isn't Mayweather Pachial. This isn't, you know, Mayweather McGregor. It's not even Fury versus Wilder, but this is two names that are going to sell a bunch of pay-per-views. Is it not, I mean, is it not bigger than Fury Wilder? Fury Wilder was, I believe, I don't remember what the exact number for the second fight was, but the first fight was like, what, 800,000 pay-per-view by something like that. I don't think it gets that high.

I was talking to a lot of industry experts this week, and they had a peg between 350 and five, which is, look, what? Yeah. No way. No way. I'm telling you, like, Paperview, it's a problematic business. I know it's not to say. It's a problematic business.

And by the way, Ryan and Tank's fan bases, maybe especially Ryan's because he's, they're, they're just very digital. Like, they are going to pirate the bejesus out of that fight. Like that, like, I hope it doesn't happen because I think it's bad. You're stealing from these fighters. But, yeah, absolutely. But I just, I don't, I think the days of 700,000, 800,000, they're just reserved for like Canelo and the reserve for heavyweight super fights.

I'd love to be wrong, but I think this probably tops out at 500. I think we'll find out in April. I mean, there are other experts that are projecting this fight does a million. Who knows? They are bonkers. They are bonkers. I get it. But listen, look, is there some truth to this, Chris?

Look, you're an inside. I mean, people are saying that this fight is really not promoted by Mayweather promotions. They're not a promoter or a partner promoter in this fight. Is there any truth to that? I don't know yet because we'll see who is promoting, you know, really promoting Tank versus Garcia in January. Because look, Tank, for everything that Leonard Ellaby says about the relationship is fine, tank goes on social media once a month and just indicates that it's not.

And his last tweet involving, and I'm sure you saw it, Rother Romero, you know, talking Leonard said something, Tang's mother overheard it, whatever. There's certainly some problems there. And if that is the case, I mean, look, Golden Boy will take a. lead role in all this. Oscar Delahoya will certainly be front and center in all this. I don't think they'll have a problem promoting this fight from a logistics aspect. I think that'll be fine.

Look, again, I hope it does do that big a number. It's just so hard to do those numbers. And one last thing on this fight, Chris. I mean, I know you said everybody involved in creating a fight is happy, you know, to some degree. But all the investment that the zone is made into. Ryan Garcia. Obviously, we know Showtime had made big investments into Tank Davis. Why isn't the fighter just a flat-out joint venture in terms of the zone having their broadcast, selling their pay-per-view to their subscribers, and Showtime doing the same?

I think it's as simple as Showtime and Mayweather promotions wouldn't budge on that issue. And look, I spend a lot of time talking to people on all sides of this. And the compromise that was made where DeZone gets. a seven-figure fee and the right to sell it as their own pay-per-view. That was as far as Mayweather Promotions and Showtime was going to go. I am curious to see what the logistics look like for a potential rematch, because this fight could be so good. Right, that's where I was going next.

I have heard from people on the DeZone side that they will have the rights to a rematch. I have had some pushback from people on the Showtime, Mayweather's side, that that is not the case. But look. Well, I'll tell you right now real quick, just to jump in on that. Stephen Espinoza had mentioned that himself, that the zone will get the rematch. You know, and that's coming from the head guy at showtime. I mean, good.

That's the way it should be, right? Like, if you are going to be the lead on one, you should give it to the other. I mean, I've always said all along that DeZone and Showtime should be involved. Should be involved. Like, DeZone sank a lot of money into Ryan. Showtime has sank a lot of money into Tank.

You all deserve to be involved. And quite frankly, if you're a fighter, you want everybody involved. Like, I've made this analogy before. But it's like if the Lakers, it's like if the NBA went to the Lakers and said, we want you on TNT and ESPN, and Lakers being like,

now, why would we want that? Of course you want that. You want more exposure. The more people that are involved, the more potential pay-per-view revenue is produced. And everybody... Is this a competition? Is this a competition in terms of,

okay, both platforms are going to sell this fight. And we're going to see what boxing fans are more dedicated. to their platform, right? Like, is it all we going to be able to have to compete with Showtime on who's going to sell more pay-per-views on this fight? Even though they're producing it and, you know, and they're going to have the talent on a broadcast, is there a possibility that Showtime subscribers, I mean, more of the

own subscribers were purchased the fight? Let me tell you something. I don't know the answer to that. But I covered and wrote a whole story for the magazine in 2015 on the inner workings of the negotiations between HBO and Showtime when they put on Pachial Mayweather. And the gamesmanship there was next level. Everyone, you know, people from the other networks were so eager to call me up and say, we got this, but we got that.

We did this and we did that. So I can tell you, in the aftermath of Tank Ryan, if Showtime sells way more linear paper views than DeZone sells digital, they'll let us know. reverse is true. Something tells me that DeZone. DeZone will let us know as well. We are DeZone employees, of course, but they will. I have a feeling they will be happy to pass that information along. From good news, from good news to bad news in boxing, I want to pivot back to the Spence Crawford negotiates because Terrence Crawford's out there now. He was on the DeZone boxing show

recently. And every conversation is about what happened with the Spence fallout. You talk to him. Where do you stand on all this? Like the blame pie, so to speak, because there's been a lot of information kind of thrown out there. There was a 20-minute Instagram video that Errol spent or Terrence Crawford did right after things fell apart. There was a Twitter back and forth. People talking about hedge funds.

Now there is the PR tour that Crawford is on at the moment where he's telling his side of the story. How do you divide up the blame pie here? Well, I'll tell you this. I mean, I know Crawford, Terrence Crawford personally, and for him to go out on a limb and get on Instagram live for 20 minutes, it's because he's really passionate and frustrated about the situation. So there's a lot of truth to what he said. And in theory, if one side is telling a story and the other side is not really giving a response,

I mean, you would have to lean towards a guy that's actually giving his side of the story and you're not giving any response. So, I mean, who are we going to blame? I mean, we can't blame Crawford for this fight because he's giving us his side of the negotiations. We all know we're not going to hear our Heyman talk to anybody, right? And all Errol is doing is putting out tweets here and there. He's not getting into specifics.

So, look, I like Errol as well. I know Errol as well. He wants to fight. Both guys want to fight each other. You know as well as I do. Neither guy is scared of each other. So it's not about that. But I would have to lean towards the guy that's giving you something.

He's giving us something and he did it for 20 minutes. And to my understanding, the particulars on those deals, Chris, they were true. There wasn't no transparency there in terms of, you know, the net and the gross and so on and so forth and guaranteed. We all know that Terrence was going to get paid. That fight would do well, would do good numbers. But I don't think it's a deal that anybody in their right mind with the right legal team would accept. So it begs, you know, makes you question. I mean, does Al really want the fight for Errol?

I mean, who knows? It's so tough, but I have to leave. I have to put more blame on that on the PVC side, only because we haven't heard a rebuttal from anybody over there. I would say this, though, about Crawford's explanations. One thing that I think doesn't get discussed enough is that the timing of the BLK Prime deal, right? Like, this didn't come out of nowhere. Like, he had been talking to these people for, for some time.

Yeah, but Chris, Chris, I'm sorry I could cut you off. But this has been had me frustrated last couple of weeks because everybody's addressing it. Now, if I'm out looking for a job and I'm on a job hunt, right? Are you going to tell me I can't put my application in other companies until I get the offer? Especially if I'm focused on one job. I want that job. That's the one I really want. They're not really giving me an offer yet.

I'm going to put my resume. What is wrong with him talking to be okay? Nothing. Oh, no. Oh, no. Nothing. Nothing. I was just sort of my preamble to say. Oh, okay. Some people were saying, no, no, no.

Look, I think Crawford wanted what he wanted and was going to get what he wanted to get. And he had some leverage because he had an eight figure reportedly deal on the table from BLK Prime. And look, if you have leverage, you use it. I don't blame Terrence Crawford one bit for taking reportedly $10 million from BLK Prime to fight David Avedecian. David Advincian is a nice fighter. I would have loved to have seen him in with Virgil Ortiz, but against Terrence Crawford, he is lunch meat. Like that is not going to go well for David Avenisian.

So if you're Terrence Crawford and the negotiations for a Spence fight are not going the way you want them to go, and there's this deal out there, you say, screw it, I'm going to take the $10 million. I'm going to beat the daylights out of David Avanician. And then first quarter of 2023, let's see if we can revisit this and I can get more of the things that I want. That's kind of where I feel Terrence Crawford was in.

all this. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, Chris, the only thing I'm worried about is we all know Al Heyman is a very private man. And I can't recall any fight on the PBC side, even former PBC guys ever expressed this much about negotiations with Al Heyman. So, I mean, who's to say that Al is, you know, would be upset indefinitely about what Terrence did on the live and not make the fight happen or get in front of the fight from happening. I mean, I'm worried about that because of his, his, you know, his history of being a guy that, you know, nobody talks negatively about least fighters. So would that affect the negotiations moving forward should he get past Avenison? That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know that that means that they're

going to reach a deal, but I do think they can pick up where they left off. Maybe it's in January. Maybe it's in February after Spence gets back in the ring. If he does get back in the ring against Keith Thurman in February, as many have speculated, I think they're capable of picking up where they left off. And I'll tell you, I am encouraged that at least it seems like, I know Spence has been on social media being a little ambiguous, but it seems like Spence is going to stay at 147, going to take this fight against Keith Thurman. And that will at least position him to get to reignite the Crawford talks, you know,

for the summer, say, of 2023. So at least, at least I don't feel like the door is completely closed. It felt like it was closed in the immediate aftermath of everything falling apart. But now I feel like the door is still a little bit open. And if cooler heads can prevail, maybe we can get these two guys ultimately in the ring. Last thing for you. I say it happens. Yeah, I actually think it happens too.

I do. I'm still optimistic to a degree that it's going to happen. Last thing for you, you got Dillion White back in the ring this weekend. First fight since getting knocked out by Tyson Fury. he takes on Germaine Franklin. That's a fight that you can see on DeZone. Number one, I don't know about you, but I think this is a tough fight for Dillion White.

I'm not sold on Jermaine Franklin walkover here. I'm just not. Like, you know, Dillian, at his best, is a lot better than Jermaine Franklin. But in two of his last three fights, Dillian has been starched, like starch. Alexander Pavecking got him, and then Tyson Fury got him.

Jermaine Franklin, Sergio tells me this all the time, and I tend to buy it now. Like, when you don't know what it feels like to lose, you're a little bit better than people. think you are. Like you've got something there. And Jermaine Franklin, I think he knows going over there, this is his opportunity. This is his Tyson Fury fight. He keeps talking about the uppercut, which is, we know the fight that Dillian White does not like. Let's start here. What do you

think of this fight? Is this a more dangerous fight for Dillian White than people are letting on? 100%. Definitely a dangerous fight for Dillon White. I mean, I think he has to be the best version of himself to beat Franklin. Now, we know that there's a fight, a big fight ahead for Dillian. You know, I mean, obviously, Eddie Hearn has been vocal about it, you know, the rematch with AJ. So when you have a huge fight like that ahead of you, you know, you tend to prepare because you know you have to get past this guy in order to get that.

And it's not only about a pay that. He wants his get back with AJ. AJ stopped them years ago even before he was a champion. So I know that fight is important for Dillian, but he has to get past Franklin. So I think we get the best version of him because of what lies ahead. But no, it's not going to be easy at all. In fact, I mean, I think this fight is as dangerous as the Pavecun fight. I mean, and maybe even more because, you know, he hasn't lost.

I mean, big opportunity, nothing to lose. I mean, all on the line going out there. So, no, this fight is not easy at all. But I do see Dillian landing a big shot and hurt him Franklin. I think he wins this fight by knockout in a rough fight. Not easy. but I think at some point in that fight in the late rounds, he lands a big shot and stops him.

And like I said, Chris, you know, he has a lot lying ahead. If he doesn't win his fight, it's all over. He might have to because I think there's a scenario where in these later rounds he's down on the cards. I think Franklin, who is tricky, could wind up out boxing him, being up, you know, four, three after seven,

five, three after eight, that kind of situation where Dillian's going to have to pull one of those wicked body shots or wicked left hooks, the kind of shots that put so many fighters like Derek just saw another others down to do it. So I'm a dangerous one. No question about that. It does seem like though, if Dillion White wins, we are barreling towards A.J. versus White too. Eddie Hearn says that A.J. is going to be back first quarter, March, April of 2023, which would put him in line to face White four or five months after he beats Jermaine Franklin. Is that the right fight for AJ in your mind, a rematch with Dillian White?

Yeah, I think that that's a perfect fight for AJ. I think Dillon is going to get the best out of AJ. We all know that there's history there, there's animosity, even though those guys, you know, they're countrymen and they support one another, but when they're facing each other, there's a lot of hate there. So I think that, first of all, Dillian has to look somewhat, even if he's down on the cards, if he scores a big knockout against Franklin, I think that builds that fight even more.

Now, stylistically, I think that's good for AJ coming. off fighting a guy that's a skill as Usec, fighting guy that's going to be right there in front of you, giving him the opportunity where he can score a big knockout against a guy like Dylan. I'm not saying a fight pays out like that, but I think this is an actual perfect

opponent. Big name, history there, back home in London, and a type of style that AJ can thrive with. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. I think AJ needs a fight that really gets his juices flowing and a rematch with Dillian White, especially if White beats Jermaine Franklin convincingly

would do that. The buildup to that fight would be strong. There'd be a lot of trash talk. And Dillion White, while being dangerous, is not the same kind of dangerous as Alexander Ussick. He's not going to be as slippery as Ucic as technically skilled as Usoc. And I think it is an ideal fight for Anthony Joshua. What does concern me, not to veer too far off here with Joshua, But what does concern me is, A.J. with this idea that, like, a lot of people are going to train me, like, that never works. Like, you need a familiar, soothing, convincing voice in your corner. And I don't love it. It worked for Devin Haney. I mean, and his father's approaching and having him with different guys. But his father's always been the guy. Like, his father, like he brings in Ben Davison. That works out well. He brings in you well. Judy.

He brings a lot of guys. I actually give Bill Haney credit for D.S. doing that because he knows what he doesn't know and he's willing to learn as he goes along, which not a lot of fathers were willing to do or are willing to do. Ryan Garcia's father is another example of kind of being willing to seed control to a certain degree. But, you know, Anthony. Yeah, but for a guy like AJ, you got to understand, like this guy that's been under microscope since he won an Olympic gold medal. Everything is scrutinized.

If he does something wrong, he has the whole world saying you need a new trainer. You're not doing this right. you're not doing that right a lot of pressure on his guy i'm not saying that you know he shouldn't have one trainer i'm saying the guy's trying to figure it out man he is such a big name in his country and so much on his back he just wants to get it right and he's trying to figure it out man but but sometimes trainer fighter pairings can be a disaster i mean Emmanuel stew was one of the great trainers in boxing history i remember when he teamed up with Miguel coto what a mess that was back in the day like that didn't work and Miguel coto who looked like his

career was finished after that lost to Austin Trout. He winds up pairing with Freddie Roach, reignites his career, gets several more big wins, makes a whole bunch more money. I'm just saying, he had to go, but he had to go and try those guys out. I mean, he didn't know that they were going to gel well with, you know, he was going to gel that well with Freddie. And it happened. So AJ, that's what he searched for. He's trying to find a guy. He looked better in the rematch with O'Soo. I mean, like, I would stay with Robert Garcia. I would stay with Angel Fernandez. I would I'm not saying that's a bad idea. I mean, get the hell.

I like that. I like that idea. We had a conversation with Garcia and he told us in Vegas, he said, you know, for the next one, I want AJ to come to Arsenal or I want him to be here in this country. So that's not a bad idea. I'm not saying he should shift, you know, camps. He should stick with him for the next one. I agree with you.

I mean, in, in the UK, Anthony Joshua can't walk down the street in most major cities without being recognized. In San Diego. they think he's a middle linebacker for the Chargers. Like nobody know. Like he's just an anonymous figure. And he needs that. I agree. I agree.

I think he does need that. And I hope that he comes to that conclusion. This is a pivotal time for him. Like he's really one loss away from it being over at this point. Like, I mean, I think Ussick is fine. But like you're one, you know, white level loss away from it being just done. And he's one knockout away of being back on top and a possible fight with Wilder is what I see next for AJ, should he get past

Dylan, if Dylan gets back. You should do that in New York, I think. Like, do it in, like, go back to the place of your greatest failure where it all kind of unraveled for you, face Deonté Wilder, do a big crowd of MSG. Like, that would be... We know the Brits are coming for that to New York, so I like it. There was all Brits in that. Exactly.

Check out Ack of the DZone Boxing Show, weekdays over on the DZone app, D-ZN.com as well. Ack always good to catch up. I will see you at the next zone fight. No doubt. Enjoy your holiday. Thank you, Chris. Thanks. And when we come back, my conversation with Regis Progray. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably

10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of ton-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The NBA season is underway.

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On Saturday, he will attempt to regain a junior welterweight belt when he takes on Jose Zepeda in Carson, California. that's a fight that you can watch on pay-per-view. And Regis joins me here on the show. Let me ask you first. I saw that before the media workout this week. Jose Zapata was in a minor car accident. When you heard he was in a car accident, what was the first thing that crossed your mind?

I was like, oh, Lord, please don't let this fight not happen because he got the car wreck. That was my first thing. Like, bro, really? Like, he gets in the car wrecked on the media day. this is like this is crazy so um but they told me everything was fine he's good so i was i was happy about that but um yeah that was the that was the main thing i was just like oh man i just can't believe this happened i'm out here um i don't want the fight to be called off you know i had a long camp and we all out here my team everybody's out here and if this happens in the fight you're called

off that'll be that'll be a disaster yeah as you said this week you've basically been training for this fight for three years. So to have it called off would have been a catastrophe. Speaking of this fight, it has been more than three years since you lost your title in that unification fight against Josh Taylor. In your mind, why is it taken this long for you to get another shot? I don't know, man. Maybe it was my team. Maybe it was the people around me. I don't know. I really don't know. Like, I can't say why it took this long. It shouldn't take this long. You know, like if you look at when um i was a champion i was number one in the world i was champion and number one in the world and then you know i lost the belt and it took me all this time to you know to get back to

it and then you have somebody like hosea ramirez which you know he fought josh taylor he lost his belt and then he fights i think he fought projaza and then he's right back in line for the belt again like right after one fight i have to wait three fights you know so i don't know man i don't like you know maybe it's politics maybe it's the like i said maybe it was my team Maybe people just don't like me. I don't know. I don't know what it was. I mean, to me, it's got to be politics, right?

Because, like, you're a very likable guy. You're a very entertaining fighter in the ring. I think the one missing link is that over the last few years, you have not been aligned with a top rank, with a Golden Boy, with a matchroom, somebody like that that where guys play the game and put people like Jose Ramirez in that position. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I guess that's what happened, you know. But I'm just glad, you know, I'm glad to have.

happen now. I've been, I sacrificed for three years. I could have went to 47 a long time ago. And, you know, I say, you know, my, my thing is I want to be a champion again at 140. That's, that's, that's, this is something that I just want, you know, something I have on my vision board, something that I just, I really, really yearn to have that is to be a two-time world champion. Before I even think about anything else, I want to be a two-time world champion. So I sacrificed, I had nutritionist, and now I'm standing 140. So why, tell me more about why that was so important to you, because you're right, you could have moved up to 147. There was some talk a couple of years ago about you and Terrence Crawford

potentially meeting at 147. You were talking about and have fought a catch weights over the last couple of years. Why is it so important to you to get that second title reign at 140? Honestly, I just feel like I still should be a champion. That's all. I mean, with the whole Josh Taylor thing, I still felt like, listen, it was a close fight and I won't say that, oh, I got robbed or nothing like that because I did get robbed, you know, but I felt like, you know, I should still be a champion. That's just kind of how I feel. I feel like I didn't lose the fight

and I should still be a champion. I feel like if the fight was here and it was that close, I probably would have got the decision. So I feel like I should still be, you know, I should still be a world champion. It's just kind of my personal history

to, you know, be a two-time war champion. How much do you think back on that Taylor fight? Because, I mean, it was a very close fight and you did have to go overseas to take that fight as part of the World Boxing Super Series. Taylor went on to become undisputed and you've kind of been trying to work your way back into that mix. Do you think often about that fight?

It's like, yes, it's a yes and no thing. You know, like, so for me, I tell everybody that my personal life is amazing. You know, like, so it's like it's two different lives, like the boxing life and then the personal life. Like my personal life is way more amazing than my boxing life. Like, I just, like, I really do boxing just because I really love the fight. I really, really like the train. I really love boxing.

But as far as the politics, you know, I really don't like all the politics and all the stuff that goes behind boxing. I don't like that. But I love the sport. I love the fighters. I love the history of it. I'm a history and I read about boxing all day. I just love that about the sport.

But as far as the things that go on behind the scene, I don't like that stuff. So I just boxed because I just, for me, I just boxed because I just, you know, I love it. I just love the sport. That's all. And so, yeah, that's it. I just, I love it.

But on my, on the personal side, I'm always great. Was there, professionally speaking, was there a really frustrating point for you over the last few years where you kind of wondered, where maybe you wondered if it was ever really going to happen for you? It's like, it's a yes and it's a no question. I mean, a yes and a no answer because for me, what I did, like to get to the number one spot, to get to be a world champion, what I did is I just work, man, I studied, I worked, I put my head down and work. So for the last three years, that's what I did. I just put my head down. I work out. I mean, for the most part, you know, every nine that I might say some things on social media.

But for the most part, I just, I shut up. I didn't complain. I just put my head down and I worked and worked and worked. And I knew, listen, if I keep working, no matter if it take three years, four years, six years, I'm going to get that spot again. I'm going to get a shot again. And, you know, for the belt. And I'm going to be a two-time.

I'm going to be a world champion again. So it was like, yeah, it was definitely frustrating. And, you know, the most, I think the most frustrating thing is that, listen, I fought all the networks. I was main event for a long time for them, ESPN, I fought on the zone. I fought on Showtime, main event all the time. And then as soon as you lose, it's like they just, it's like they throw you away. Like literally, they just, in boxing, they just throw you away. They put me on undercalls.

I'm like, you know, and I didn't, I didn't say nothing. I didn't complain about it. You know, in my head, I'm like, all right, you know, but I didn't say nothing. I said, all right, you're going to see because I will be a war attempt in the game. And all the frustration is going to come. vote. It really is, Regis, the worst part about boxing how they treat a loss or how promoters and networks often treat a loss because you look at UFC and I don't even know how many losses some of their main events guys have. Like how many losses Nate Diaz have and he's still a headliner?

You are, you are, you have been a really compelling guy in the ring. Your fights are entertaining. So networks should want to have you one more often. It was always perplexing to me. I know some have tried. I mean, I really wish, and I'm sure you did that. the hooker fight happened when it was supposed to happen before the pandemic. That would have been a great showcase fight for you and probably would have propelled you a little quicker back into this mix. But even like, I mean, the craziness of the business of boxing is like you're here in this fight on Saturday in large part because Jose Ramirez bowed out of this fight,

which is crazy. Like I respect Jose Ramirez, tremendous fighter. But why was he first in line for this opportunity for a vacant belt instead of you? That's what I'm saying. Like, why was he exactly? You know, like I said, after he took his loss to Josh Taylor, he fought one fight, and he's right back in line. And for me, I have to fight.

I had to fight three fights for three years, and then, and now I'm in line. But then they told me, you know, I was short for me. That's why I made a little rank on social media because, like, I understood that my neck, after my next fight, I would fight for the belt. I would be mandatory to fight Zepeda for the belt. And then they told me, all right, Ramirez is Zepeda going to fight like, what? Like how? So then I had to really speak up.

I had to really say something, you know, because, you know, I can tell my manager all day long, but listen, I'm, you know, at the end of the day, a closed month with my buffet. So I had to say something about it. And now I'm just glad I'm getting a shot. So you're 33 now, be 34 in January. How do you feel physically at this stage of your career?

I feel, man, honestly, I feel better than I felt early because, like, I'm doing everything right right now. That's the thing. You know, I mean, I know a lot of people say maybe it might be cliche and stuff like that, but I really do. Like, I have, I had a nutritionist, and, you know, and I had nutritionist because I didn't know if I could make $140. Because after the, after the Josh Taylor fight, I fought Heraldaz,

and I didn't make weight. I was like a pound and a half over. And so the excuse was, oh, I didn't make the, I didn't make weight for a whole year. So that's why, you know, I was heavy. So then after that, I fought, I break catch. And it was like one, the weight was 142, and I was like 143. So I still was over that weight. So I was like, man, you know, like,

I can't do it this way. Like sitting and so on this and doing all that stuff. So I had a nutritionist. I reached out to a nutritionist and we did a mock camp. He came to my house. Why I wasn't in camp, we did like a little small mock camp. He got the way down like that, like in like 10 days. And I was like, I don't know if you saw the video.

I was in the ones with Bertrand and that was, I was eating and all that stuff. So I came back home. I came back to Texas and he did that, man, 10 days. I got the way down. I was like, okay, this work. And now. And so my first fight was. with him was my last fight in Dubai.

And I mean, I made, I was like 138.8 or something like that. And I made the way easy. I felt good. I felt strong. Even right now, like, usually around this time, I feel, I will feel like my old way, I would feel dead and I won't feel too good. And right now I really feel like this far. Like last night, my coach was at the gym and my coach was like,

can you please go light? Don't do that. Like, don't hit the bag so hard. Let's, you know, let's go. Like, even tonight, he's like, man, like, we just don't, you know, we can do a few things like drills and shadow box and stuff and I want to hit the bag. I just have so much energy. I feel so good.

So now, like I said, I feel, for me, I just feel better. I got my food and order and I just feel better. It's great that you feel that way because, and I'm not telling you anything, you don't know, but like this fight's massive for you. I mean, that belt is currency, right, in boxing. Like you get your hands on that belt. Next up, presumably would be Jose Ramirez. and after that, 140 is getting hot again,

where you're going to have Devin Haney move up into that weight class sooner than later. Tea Vima Lopez already in that weight class. Ryan Garcia, after Tank Davis, going to stay in that weight class. Like, what's your mindset there going in? I mean, you, I'm sure you sense the importance of this moment. Yeah, I definitely sense the importance of it, you know, but it's just like, you know, it's another fight. You got to look at it like there's just another fight.

I do feel, I mean, listen, I respect Jose Zepeda for getting to this spot, but I just feel like I'm on another level. I really do feel like I'm just better. I feel like I'm on another level. And it's just another fight. Yeah, it's a very important fight because it's the belt and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, it still is just another fight, you know. So that's kind of how I look at it like that.

I've just, I've been in a long, long camp, and I was in camp for about five or six months, you know, not for this specific fight, but for this specific fight because I was a actually, I was in camp like August 20. I had a date August 20 on Andy Joshua fought. I had a date. I also put a fight on that. And then August 27, they pushed it back. And then they told me, you know, you could fight for the belt. Stay in camp, but you might fight for the belt.

So, you know, I stayed in camp, I did that. And they told me, all right, you got the shot. You're fighting. You're going to fight as a painter for the belt. So, you know, I've been in camp for a long time. And I'm just, for me now, I'm just ready to get it over with. Last question for you. One name I didn't mention was Josh Taylor.

he's going to fight Jack Catterall early next year in a rematch. You've been vocal about wanting that rematch of your own. Why is that fight important to you? And are you willing to jump up and wait if Taylor does to go and get it? Well, you know what? That's definitely, that's the number one of my hit list because it's just like, I want my get back. That's all you.

And we put it in the States. We definitely put it in the United States. But I just want, you know, I want my get back. You got it. I think that we have to run that back. And, you know, but somebody told me yesterday, they said, well, if you have the belt at 140 and he's at 147, you might be the cash cowl at 140. Why would you need him to go to 140? And I'm like, man, you know what?

You might be right about that. Maybe I won't need them. Maybe I might make them come down to do a catchweight or something like that, you know. But like I said, that's all speculation. That's all he says. She said right now is all Josefated. Well, Regis, good to have you back one way or the other. Great.

opportunity against Jose Zepady. You can check that fight out on pay-per-view on Saturday in Carson, California. Good to catch up, man, and good luck this weekend. All right, man. Thank you. And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandul. And I am locked in this weekend on the heavyweight division. Dillion White, the former heavyweight title challenger. He is back in the UK, back for the first time to knockout loss against Tyson Fury. on Jermaine Franklin. Now, on paper, this looks like a mismatch. Cordofandu, Dillian White, minus 1,400 favorite.

Jermaine Franklin plus 640. You know what I'm going to do? I'm taking the upset, baby. I am taking the upset. I am taking Jermaine Franklin to win at plus 640. He is undefeated at this point in his career. And Dillian White, even though I think he is the better fighter, he is coming off, out losses in two of his last three fights. He was stopped a couple of years ago, badly,

by Alexander Pavecgan. He was stopped in his last fight by Tyson Fury. I think that Dillion White has taken one too many hits, and I think that Jermaine Franklin is going to take advantage of it. I think Franklin wins by decision as well. That is plus 1,300 right now over at Fando. So I'm going out on a limb here. I'm not taking a favorite. I'm not taking an easy pick. I'm taking Jermaine Franklin at plus 640 to win, and I'm taking Jermaine Franklin at plus 1,300 to win by decision. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode.

My thanks to Ack from the Zone Boxing Show and Regis Pro Grape for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll be back next week from Arizona with Sergio Mora. Another podcast from some SNL, late night, comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app.

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.