The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Battle for Boxing

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

Mannix is joined by DAZN presenter Ade Oladipo from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia where they talk Anthony Joshua-Francis Ngannou, what it would mean for boxing if Ngannou wins, a terrific co-main between Zhilei Zhang and Joseph Parker, the latest with Ryan Garcia and more; later, Keith Thurman on his lengthy layoff, why he's fighting Tim Tszyu, what he thinks of Garcia's social media behavior, more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

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Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. And we are back.

Boxing with Chris Manix, part of the volume Sports Podcast Network's second episode this week. If you're a subscriber, I thank you for being one. If you are not a subscriber, get over the Boxing with Chris Manix feed. Hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod in your feed every single week. So got a great show lined up for you. Adiola Depot, the DeZone Broadcaster. He is over in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, where we have another massive heavyweight event.

Anthony Joshua, the former unified heavyweight champion. He is taking on France and Ghanu, the ex-UFC champion, who established himself as a real boxer just this past fall when he took on Tyson Fury, very close fight with Tyson Fury. Actually knock Fury down in that fight. It's a fascinating event between Joshua, who is on the comeback trail, won three fights in a row in 2023. And Inganu, who is trying to prove that he is,

a legitimate boxer. And I think for Franzigano, if he is able to defeat Anthony Joshua, after the performance he submitted against Tyson Fury, he might be able to call himself the greatest combat sports athlete ever. Because if you go from being the UFC champion to beating a former and in his prime

unified heavyweight champion in boxing, not much else you could accomplish in combat sports. So I talked to Aday about everything going on in Riyadh this week. A little bit later, Keith Thurman, the former unified Welterweight champion. He is moving up and wait to take on Tim Zhu. Tim Zoo, of course, is a 154 pound champion. Look, I like Keith Thurman a lot.

He's a character for sure. But I've got my doubts about Thurman's chances to be competitive in this fight. He has been inactive for a long time. he is moving up to a weight class he is unfamiliar with he is fighting a young hungry getting better fighter in tim zoo so i talked to keith about all that about how he overcomes the age disparity the size disparity the inactivity disparity keith is a character and i like talking to him uh but it's going to be a uphill climb for keith thurman in winning that fight on uh march 30th so stick around great conversation there with keith thurman couple things i want to hit on uh

One, the idea of a live show. We've talked about that at length here on the podcast. We are still looking into it. We're trying to do something either the day before or the day of the scheduled Devin Haney Ryan Garcia fight. And of course, I say scheduled because right now, whether or not that fight happens, it is still up in the air. But I've been listening to all your feedback, reading your comments about

a live show. If you are interested in attending a live show in New York on either April 19th or April 20th, make sure you get in my mentions, send me a DM, let me know what you think. I'm trying to gauge the interest of the podcast listeners about doing one, how big we should do it. But if we do do one, it's going to be big and it's going to be good. We've got a lot of boxing brainpower in New York that week. and I'm sure we'll be able to tap into a lot of it to have a really great show. So make sure you keep sending me some of those comments. Let me know what you think about doing a live show that week.

After we finished recording with Aday, the news broke that Jake Paul, he's back. Just days after knocking out Ryan Borland, who was the second consecutive, quote, pro boxer that Jake Paul defeated. he is going back to the, I don't know, call it the amateur circuit, but the event circuit. And he's doing it in a very big way. Jake Paul is going to take on Mike Tyson on July 20th in Dallas, Texas. This is a fight that will be streamed live on Netflix, which is dipping its toe into the sports pool. This is the latest for a for Netflix. This is the lane that Jake Paul needs to be in.

I've been on record saying that, you know, the Andre August type fights, the Ryan Borland type fights, they don't do anything for me. They don't do anything for an audience. They don't resonate with an audience. Jake Paul's lane is fighting in these types of events. Fighting guys like Tyron Woodley, fighting guys like Nate Diaz, fighting guys like Anderson Silva. That registers with people.

It's not putting him on a path to win a world championship, but it is a way to be relevant in the boxing space. And this Tyson fight, this is going to be big. Whether or not you like Jake Paul, a lot of people are going to watch Jake Paul against Mike Tyson. Now, among the questions I have is, will this be an exhibition, or are we going to see these two guys go at it?

My guess is it's going to be something closer to an exhibition. Mike Tyson is 57 years old. It would be in poor taste. It would be bad for the state of Texas to license Mike Tyson for a professional boxing match against Jake Paul. Say what you want about Jake Paul, but he's 9 and 1 now as a professional boxer. He's got a bunch of knockouts. You don't license a 57-year-old man regardless of his pedigree to fight someone. like Jake Paul in a real boxing match.

So I expect to be an exhibition type event. But when you have Mike Tyson and you have Jake Paul, chances are this could devolve into something that ends with somebody getting knocked out. So it's going to be an interesting event. I think it being on Netflix makes it even bigger. Netflix, of course, 260 million global subscribers. So it has a broad reach. This is not going to be a pay-per-view.

It's going to be available to everybody. that wants to watch. And Tyson, he's still got a massive fan base. Jake Paul, he's got a massive fan base. They're doing this thing in AT&T Stadium. That's a bold move by Jake Paul and Mike Tyson because that's an 80,000 seat stadium. But they must really believe that they can put butts in seats.

This would easily sell out like American Airlines Center in Dallas. What kind of crowd will it do in AT&T Stadium? You know, Canelo a couple of years ago did 70, thousand plus, but that was Canelo, the unified super middleweight champion, arguably the biggest draw in boxing. Will Jake Paul, Mike Tyson do those kind of numbers? Or will it be more like 20,000, 25,000, 30,000? Yeah, it remains to be seen. But a bold move by Jake Paul and Mike Tyson in doing that. So we'll talk more about that fight as we get more details on it in the days and weeks ahead. But next, we are going to talk.

about the heavyweights, about Anthony Joshua, about Francinez, about Jay Li Zhang, and Joseph Parker, which is a fascinating co-main event on the Friday card in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. So stick around. Ade Oladipo, his own broadcaster. He is going to join me next. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast is. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career. in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger

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Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Adet. Give me a sense of the vibe out there right now. It's weird because it's changed in the last. 24 hours. I was going to say it was subdued. There aren't too many fighters fighting each other that have personal beefs. Everyone's quite respectful. And all of a sudden, Tyson Fury turns up, and Furian and Garnu go back and forth. And I'm not one second, but we're trying to sell AJ in Garnu. But Fury turns up, almost as a show. And you almost feel like there's going to be another

Fury in Garnu fight down the line, because these guys, there's a dislike there. I spoke to Tyson Fury. He was upset, obviously, about his performance, and Garnu still thinks he won the fight. So I almost feel like there's something sort of selling behind the scenes and brewing. But in terms of the fighters on the card, it's actually been quite respectful. AJ and Ingauna are respectful, Zhang and Park. Obviously, Zhang doesn't speak much English, so it's always difficult going through a translator. Parker's up for it. I think we, as fight fans know, there are like four or five really good fights, close fights, but I think it's sort of getting the casuals in. And I think maybe we're starting to struggle with that a little bit because the casuals always want to see drama,

like presses and weigh-ins, et cetera, et cetera. So we're about a year removed from the official comeback of Anthony Joshua. It was last March when AJ fought Germain Franklin in the first of a three-fight, 2003. You were there for the Franklin fight. You're there now. What's the, what, if any, differences are you seeing in AJ from where he was a year ago? I always look at AJ from a mental standpoint, before I,

kind of look at his boxing ability and skills. They're there. It almost needs to be unlocked, but they're there. You don't get Olympic gold medals for nothing. You don't become unified overweight champion of the world for nothing. But mentally, when I sit down with him, I'm like, okay, where is his head at? Is he confident? Is he talking in sentences that don't make any sense, or has he given me a full, clean version of Anthony Joshua? And I think right now, he's very, very good. He's very high. He seems very confident. I think that link up with Ben Davidson is almost a throwback to when he was on TeamGB, and he just enjoyed the sport.

I think you enjoy it as an amateur coming through, and when the gold and the money and the glitz come, it can be a bit difficult to kind of maneuver that path. But I think where he is right now is he's a confident, AJ. Is he back to his best? I don't know how good at Otolol and Heleneas and Jermaine Franklin. These are not top 10 everywhere. We have to be honest.

So I kind of, as much as everyone says, he's backed at being AJ. I'm like, oh, one second, let's put him in there with some top guys, and we'll find that out. I don't think we'll find that out on Friday, but he's back to a confident AJ. I'm just not quite sure if we know how good he is in the ring yet. Why do you think this connection with Ben Davison and to extent Lee Wiley has worked for AJ?

Because we've seen him cycle through, you know, a half dozen trainers in the last five years, beginning with Rob McCracken going on to Robert Garcia, Derek James. Why is this connection seemingly the right one? AJ, every time I've spoken to him, and look, I've been speaking to AJ for the best part of 10 years, every time I've spoken to him, he's so analytical. He loves the boxing game. He's a bit of a historian, which we don't really see that much. He doesn't really speak about it, but when you sit down and have private conversations with him, he'll kind of tell you so much about what fighters did in the past. You're trying to tell you about Foreman's right hand and what Sonny Liston used to do and Joe Fraser.

And I actually think with Ben Davidson and Lee Wiley, they break tape down and fighters so much. I almost feel like AJ loves that studying part. And I don't know if Robert Garcia had that. I don't know if Derek James had that. I think Rob McCracker maybe had it a little bit because you probably do need to have it as you coach amateurs. But I think he's getting that with Ben and Lee, particularly Lee.

I think Lee's almost the brains trust in this. And that's not disrespecting Ben, but I think everyone knows that Lee's the one who loves to break film down of fighters, even fighters that they're not even on course to fight. He just likes to watch fighters. And I think AJ has that connection with Lee, and in turn, sort of brings Ben on. And it's almost for AJ, it's almost like he's super team that he's built.

It's an interesting point because in the U.S. And the trainers, AJ has worked with that are based in the U.S., it's more of a gym culture there. Yeah. Where it's like, let's get in the gym in the case of the Robert Garcia Boxing Academy, and let's just battle it out, like some legendary sparring wars. out of that gym. Less so with Derek James's gym in Dallas, but it is, you know, hey, we've got stars there.

Let's level up and let's get to work. You don't necessarily hear the analytical side. Not that they can't be analytical, but you don't hear much about that with those trainers. It does seem like, to your point, the relationship between AJ and Ben and Lee is more analytical. It's more thought-based. going into this fight. It's more about the game plan, the specifics of the game plan going into

this fight. I do think that honestly, Adi, that that mindset could in a weird way make this main event something of a dud if that makes any sense? I mean, I think that I think AJ, yeah, I think AJ is going to come in with an abundance of caution. You know, Inganu is a man, is a monster of a man, a mammoth of a man. He, and he obviously has power, boxing power, knock Tyson Fury down. I think AJ is progressing to getting back towards the fighter that he was pre-Vladimir Klitschko,

but we both know he's never going to get there. And facing an opponent that is not Otto Wallin, who has actual power. I think that's going to lead to a more cautious fight for AJ. What do you think? Yeah, agreed, agreed. And it's very interesting that you mentioned. mentioned Vladimir Klitschko there because that we saw three or four different versions of Vladimir

Klitschko and the one that we saw at the end was a fighter that was very cautious, like super cautious. I mean, Emmanuel Stewart pretty much had to slap him to kind of do something towards the end of a couple of fights. I don't think AJ's gone that far down the Vladimir Klitschko route, but I always felt like AJ models himself on Klitschko, same height, same build, almost same frame, same amateur record really as well. I don't feel like AJ's become that cautious AJ. Even against Otter Wallin, I mean, there were times where he really could have put pedal to the metal, and he still kind of stood off a little bit. I don't think he engages with France and Garno, and I think Ben and Lee will make sure that doesn't happen. I think this is going to be an agent

that boxes on the outside. When he needs to get inside, he will, but he will retreat very, very quickly. If he wants to entertain us, by all means, get in the centre of the ring, but why would you against a guy that has hammers in his fists and his 275 pounds? You'd almost be stupid too. Just get the W move on and potentially fight the winner of Fuey Usik. And I think that's what we're going to see on Friday. You know, one of the subplots of this fight is AJ is in a way defending the honor of boxing. You know, you had Inganu take down or almost take down Tyson Fury last time out, nearly beating the lineal heavyweight champion. It's in my opinion, it would be a catastrophe if AJ lost this fight. For AJ for sure.

right like that you know you're all of a sudden back in that rebuilding mode and i'm not sure at this stage of his career that would be even possible um but you know in ghana would come in as the heavyweight champion of ufc and arguably beat tyson fury a lot of people would argue that he did and then have a win over anthony joshua as a complete boxing novice does that does that add something to this fight for you the boxer versus is an MA fighter conflict? Yeah, no, it's a problem. It really is.

I mean, AJ, I would go as far to say, even if this fight's close, it's a bit of a red tick, sorry, a red cross for boxing. No two-fight novice, so he's a one-fight novice now, but at the time of the night will be a two-fling. No two-fight novice should come in

and even give a problem to a former two-time unified headway champion of the world. It just shouldn't happen. And it kind of goes back to what a lot of people say about this era of heavyweights. I think there are some good heavy weights, but are they great heavy weights in this era, like the 90s and the 80s that we always talk about?

And some would say there isn't. And I can never imagine an Inganu getting in there with a Riddick Bo or he banned of Hollywood and lasting a few rounds. Just wouldn't happen. Lennox Lewis would rip his head off in seconds, convinced of it. And Lennox Lewis would go man-o-mano straight away.

He wouldn't jab and move. He would just go there and destroy him. AJ's almost got to do this to kind of say, okay, no one can try this again. And I don't know if he can. I'm not convinced of it. So we'll see. But, yeah, AJ's fighting for the other of boxing here more than, more than ever before.

Because AJ's considered the third best heavyweight on the planet. And In Garnau literally took up boxing professionally six months ago. It shouldn't happen. You're in Riyadh, of course, and you're one of the few people that have interviewed Turkey Alashik, who was responsible for putting these huge events. on the question I get asked a lot, Adi, is about the appetite for Saudi Arabia to stay in boxing. It's one thing to put on major events, like the one we saw back in December, like the one we're going to see on Friday, like the one we're going to see May 18th when it's Fury against

Alex and Usik. It's another to, you know, be putting on the equivalent of the Eddie Hearn versus Frank Warren card, which will be good, but probably not going. great in terms of the elite level fighters that'll be on that card. What's your sense from, you know, talking to Turkey Alishik to being around the Saudis for a couple of shows now? What's your sense on just how long you think this ride is going to last? Good question. Ultimately, as a fight fan, I hope it lasts forever because we're getting fights that we wouldn't have dreamed of. We're getting cards that kind of our throwback to what Don King used to do in the 80s and early 90s.

Look, I guess there has to be an appetite from the Saudi people. So it's all well and good that Turkey Al-Shayi loves it and, you know, his people love it. Do the fans love it? Are they responding by Bums on Seats? I mean, are we going to see that? I mean, Furiang Garnau and Zhang Parker, anywhere else in the world, sells out arenas. It sells that quite comfortably as well. I don't know if it's going to sell out on Friday.

So we are going to need to see a response very quickly from the fans to this. This is the country in a region that just loved football. They just love football. And this is, we're trying to throw another sport on them and hoping that they turn around and love boxing in a year. It just doesn't happen. It's going to take a long, long time. And I guess my only hope is that Turkey, Al-L Sheikh and everyone that's putting on these events

realize that this is a long, long process. Regardless if you're giving us the underweet, heavyweight title and Bivil, Baturbi. It's going to be a long process. And everyone's got to kind of be patient with it because it's probably not going to happen in two, three, four, five years, ten, maybe. So I just hope that fans respond to it. And we'll see, we'll see the appetite for it on Friday. I hope it's close to a seller.

I don't think it will be. I've been around and I've asked people, they've been asking what am I doing here? They think I'm here for a tech conference. I'm like, no, no, no. There's a big boxing event. Like, literally around the corner, they're like, who? And I'm like, Anthony Joshua, and they're like, who?

I'm like, AJ. So you still happen to educate them. But again, this is a big football area, and it's going to take time. Yeah, and look, isn't it ultimately about the Saudi ability to attract tourists, right? If you want to become the Vegas of the Middle East or the new epicenter of boxing, you've got to attract money tourists from all over the world. Now, Vegas has a leg up for a couple of reasons.

One, they have alcohol. Two, they have lots of gambling. Those are two things that are not present currently in Saudi Arabia. But if you can do major events, you are going to bring in people from outside the country to come watch these shows. I think that's going to be kind of the barometer here. That'll be what decides whether or not Saudi is in this long term. They are getting Japanese tourists, if they're getting Chinese tourists to watch someone like Zhang. A lot of Brits coming over to watch Anthony Joshua.

I think over time that'll be the bar for. To your point, it's like, there's only so many super fights you can make, right? Yeah, exactly. That'll move the needle. I mean, you can, you know, Beavle better be of that's a super fight. Maybe more for the diehards, but that's a super fight. AJ versus Tyson Fury, if that can materialize, that's a super fight. But after that, I mean, are you going to do like, let's say Nick Ball beats Ray Vargas,

which, by the way, I think would be the greatest upset ever, given that they look like two different, you know, like five different weight classes apart. I see them standing next to each other. But is there an appetite for doing Raymond Ford versus Nick Ball unification fight at 126? I mean, that to me is one of the outstanding questions that's out there. I mentioned the undercard, and it's not as star-studded as the Day of Reckoning was in terms of overall depth of the car. But it does have some good fights. And I think the best fight of the night is going to be Jé Lejean against Joseph Parker. And I'm going to say right now, Adé,

This is going to be a bad night for Joseph Parker. I am making that prediction right here, right now. I don't know. I don't know, Chris. I don't know. I've got our mutual pal, Sergio Amora, and I have a little side bet on this. I'm of the opinion that Jay Le Jong is on a George Foreman-esque track right now.

Not that he had the career foreman had early in his career, but that he's peaking at age 40 or getting to a peak at age 40 and beyond. is, I mean, I wrote his story for Sports Illustrated in the last month's issue. We spent about a week with him in New Jersey, just learning about, you know, what it took to get him here. And he was so undisciplined early in his career when he turned pro. But this is still a guy that was an Olympic silver medalist, a decorated amateur who had a tough fight with Anthony Joshua in the Olympics.

As a pro, he has two knockout wins over Joe Joyce. That ain't nothing. He was right there with Philip Hergevich, who was widely considered the third or fourth best heavyweight in the world right now. Joseph Parker had a great win over Deonté Wilder. But that was as much about Deonté Wilder as it was about Joseph Parker. In Jay Lejean, Joseph Parker is going to face another big, heavy-handed, suffocating, heavyweight. And I think Jay Li Zhang is going to be on Joseph Parker from the opening bell,

throwing from a left-handed angle, Southpaw slashing lefts. I think it's going to be fun, Adi. That's why I think it's the fight of the night. I just don't think it ends well for our friend Joseph Parker. Yeah, look, it's a tough one. And to go back to your point, I spoke to Sean George, obviously trainer of Jili Zhang doesn't do, when the interview he doesn't really speak a lot. And I spoke to him about the Hurgovich fight. I was lucky to be there. And I actually thought Zhang beat Herkovich. So, I mean, if you go on that, I mean, he's had the best 18 months of any heavyweight there is right now.

I mean, that's a win against Hergevich. That's two wins against Joe Joyce. So at the time, everyone was sound with the top five heavyweight. That's how good Gili Zhang is. He's obviously improved on the cardio. You can't find good Southport sparring. So you can bring in anyone. Unless you're bringing in Alexander Usik, you're not going to find anyone to kind of replicate

what Jili Zhang can do. He's massive. He's probably the biggest heavyweight I've seen. I wasn't lucky enough to see Valleyworth, but he's not that big, but he's enormous. And he's got a good feat for a big man as well. And you're right.

I think this is a battle between two guys that I think Joseph Parker can put himself as the top six, top seven heavyweight. And I think Jili Zhang is actually the third best heavyweight on the planet. I really do believe it is Jury Ussick and Jili Zhang. And then it's AJ. That's how highly I rate is Jili Zhang.

So I make Jili Zhang a favorite. I just feel like the feet and the speed of Joseph Parker could be a problem early, but I think eventually he will get to Parker. But I think the first four or five rounds are going to be interesting. Yeah, I think the mistake that Wilder made, well, among the many mistakes, was that he didn't, he wasn't able to suffocate Parker. That's what Joyce did.

Joyce was just suffocating. He wouldn't let Parker breathe the entire fight. I think Zhang is going to have a very similar mindset. And, you know, I've had some brief conversations with Sean George the last couple of weeks. I talked to Terry Lane, the manager of Jayley Chong this week. They are bullish on his chances of winning this fight because they know what that means, right? Like they win this fight all of a sudden, well, top rank's going to open up the China market, right? Like he's going to fight his next fight probably in Macau.

And that longstanding dream that, you know, began publicly with Eddie Hearn and probably continued with top rank and Frank Warren to have a fight in Beijing at the bird's nest is on the table. It's on the table. I mean, he has the potential to become a big star with a win tonight. I think there's a lot of motivation for him going into this fight. I will say this very quickly. I mean, the credit I have to give to Joseph Parker's through the roof. I mean, win or lose, you look at this guy's fault. I actually think he's a better fighter than he was when he beat Andy Ruiz to become a world champion.

So again, that's another name on the resume as well. Anthony Joshua, Deonti Wilder, Jili Zhang, Joe Joyce, Dillian White, Derek Chazora. Honestly, it's an incredible run. It really is. And I think the relationship that him and Andy Lee have built. know over the years, which isn't easy. Obviously, look, Joseph Parker was with a long-time trainer in Kevin Barry. You have to kind of undo everything he's learned and kind of redo all the new stuff.

So I love Joseph Parker. I think he's a great guy which helps you kind of lean on a fighter as well. I think he's really good at interviews. He sells these fights. And I think this is, even if he does lose, and he is a favorite to lose, I think we need to give him credit for taking these type of fights. Waltha and Zhang back-to-back is crazy. And not many heavyweights are doing that.

No, they're not. And to that point, a few guys were offered this Zhang fight and turned it down. Like, including Deontze Wilder. Like, Deonti Wilder could have made some pretty good coin fighting Jaili Zhang in this fight, and he passed on it. And Joseph Parker, I believe he's, he's, if he sat out, it would be him and Philip Herkovich, I think, for the IBF version of the title, if and when Fury Usik. happens and then they don't fight Herkovich to get stripped vacant title. So Parker could have put himself in position for a shot at a world title before the middle of this year. He's obviously getting well compensated for this fight. So there's that. It is prize fighting. But he could have taken a different path.

He didn't. He's taken the path, I think, of most resistance here and fighting a guy who is, I think, an absolute terror. And I think is going to go on a two or three-year run where he's challenging the best heavyweight in boxing. Last thing for you, I want to get your take on the Ryan Garcia situation because I need some fresh eyes on this out of it because I have been following this and covering this

for the better part of a week now. I've been writing about it, podcasting about it. As we speak, the fight between Ryan Garcia and Devin Haney on April 20th is still on. Ryan Garcia is back in Dallas, Texas. He is back beginning his training camp. but it has been a wild week for Ryan Garcia, who went down kind of a conspiracy rabbit hole

and brought up some stuff about child rape. I'm only repeating what he said, about witnessing it, about being tied down in a Southern California cult-like ceremony. He has been active on social media with some non-boxing topics of late, which has led a lot of, of people, you know, in the boxing business and beyond to wonder whether or not this fight

should happen, to whether or not Ryan Garcia is in the right headspace to fight anybody, much less someone with the cachet and skills of Devin Haney. So from where you sit, from where you have been watching this whole thing unfold over the last week, what has been your kind of takeaways and your impression of what's going on with Ryan Garcia? Yeah, look, what's going on, first and foremost, is the fight needs to be cancelled. Ryan Garcia is in no position to fight, and we would have been working on the fight, so it's an opportunity that we miss as well, but you clearly can see someone going through some mental problems here. And whether it's Stad, whether it's Oscar and Bernard, whether it's the zone,

someone needs to pull him out of this fight. Derek James maybe even having a conversation saying clearly not in the right frame of mind, not just to fight, but to fight Devin Haney. You're talking about a pound-for-pounder here, one of the best fighters on the planet. And if there wasn't a history here with Ryan Garcia, we could I say, okay, maybe just going through something and maybe fighting helps. Because fighting does help some of these guys.

Some of these guys, when they're not in the ring, is the problem. When they're in the ring and they're in a training camp, they're okay. They stay away from all their vices. But clearly there's a problem with Ryan Garcia. We've seen it in the past, and I think he just needs some help now.

I was listening to a live he was doing with Andrew Tate of all people. And some of the things were saying, I was like, okay, look, someone needs to stop this now. And first of all, I actually thought he was playing almost a joke on us and trying to sell the fight. Okay, I thought maybe he's looking that way and we're looking the wrong way. But then as you kind of, as you say, here's some of the stuff he's mentioned. And look, I get it. It's going to make a lot of money.

It's going to do nearly 6,700,000 pay-per-view pies. Scrapple that. Scrapple that. Put a pin in it. Get the kid some help. He's a great young kid. I've been around him as you have plenty of times. But I've almost always noticed that he's on the edge.

I've always felt like even when speaking to him, okay, is Ryan okay? Is Ryan not okay? I want him to take a while out of the ring. I know he's done it before. He's still a young kid. He can take more time out and just make yourself better

because I feel like there's a lot going on there. And the last thing he needs to be thinking about is fighting. It's the last thing. This isn't a guy that's scraping the barrel. Financially, he's okay. He's not 36, 37 checking out. He's a young guy with a good future in the sport.

But right now, people need to get a hold of him and help him. And again, right in the last thing he needs to be doing. His message to people behind the scenes has been, I'm just trolling. But I can tell you with certainty that there are many members of his family that don't believe that.

There are people that are genuinely concerned about it. We saw his brother, Sean, post something on social media expressing concern. His ex-wife has posted something on social media, expressing concern. This is not part of some elaborate plot or plan to sell a fight. It's not. It's something far more serious. And I'm with you. I mean, I've covered Ryan from the very beginning. I like him a lot. I think he's incredibly talented and oftentimes disrespected for that talent. I think people kind of look at him as, you know, the GQ model and not the boxer. When he is

the boxer, he's a silver gloves guy. He's a golden gloves guy. He's a real, real fighter. I just don't see how he can be in the proper mindset to fight like this. And I'm just curious who's going to be the one to do it. Like is a golden boy that says, you know what, this isn't going to happen. Let's figure out things out and revisit. It's the New York State Athletic Commission, which has a responsibility here to look out for the best interest of the fighter. I'm waiting to see who is going to make the first move here. Because yeah, there's a lot of money on the table for a fight like this. It is going to do a big number, I think, on pay-per-view.

But, you know, is it worth rolling the dice with this kid, putting him in a position where he could get hurt? And nobody wants to see that because he is. And boxing's always been that sport, right? I mean, that people look at the Wild World West. And to people on the outside looking in at boxing, they think of it as a crazy sport, we've got a chance to do something right here.

You put a pin in it and we move on. like there will be other big fights in the year, but you've got a young kid who's got a family that needs to get some form of help long term because again, with Ryan, this kind of pops up now and again all over the last four or five years, get help rightly so, and we move on.

It's fine. You'll fight again in 2025 or the back end of 2024, but health is more important than anything in this school. And this fight's not going anywhere either. I mean, the rivalry between Ryan and Devin Haney is longstanding. They're going to be in an arrangement. around the same weight class for a long time.

It's a fight that can be revisited if this fight ultimately gets grabbed. And ultimately, it's April 21st. I mean, this is the perfect opportunity, six, seven weeks out, to sub someone else in. It might not be pay-per-view, but there are a number of 140-pounders, 135-pounders. Devon potentially could go up to 147. There are so many things you could do here. Devon's a star within himself. It might not be pay-per-view, but you've still got a big fight because the A-side will say

Devin Haney and the B-Sai could see whoever and people would understand that it's a short-notice fight sub someone else in on the roster and we move on yeah I think there's a British guy named Connor Ben who might fit into that criteria send him to send him to the Barclays Center in New York you know what that's absolutely perfect he's on a tall spot there you go Connor there's your opportunity Devin Haney would come up to one four seven let's go yep you asked for it here he is Top five pound for pound guy. Chance to show what you got. Adela Depot, always appreciate your time, man.

Check out Adde on Friday. Primetime in the UK, afternoon fight in the U.S. DeZone and DeZone pay-per-view. Good to catch up, man. Enjoy the final few days in Riyadh. Cheers, Chris. Appreciate it, bro. And when we come back, my conversation with Keith Thurman. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. All right, Keith Thurman is the former Unified 147 pound champion on March 30th. He will move up in wait to challenge 154 pound champion Tim Zoo, Amazon Prime Pay-per-View. No title on the line in this one, Keith. And I want to start there. Are you disappointed that a fight like this does not have a world title on the line? I mean, yeah, you know, initially it was a little disappointing, you know, but that

disappointment lasted like five seconds, right? Because when they really called me about it, I said, oh, wow, Keith Thurman having to deal with more boxing politics, surprise, you know, at the end of the day, Tim Zew's an undefeated champion. By the end of March 30th, the history books will be written, either he continues to be undefeated or he shall be defeated by the one and only Keith one-time Thurman. So putting his undefeated record on the line, suffices the blow to the gut on my behalf is that with the

victory, I will not be called a three-time two-divisional world champion but people like you, people like me will all know what has happened in the sport of boxing and we'll be moving on to bigger

and better fights hence one of the reasons why Zhu took this fight. He knows with a victory over Thurman, he's guaranteed bigger and better fights. And with that, you know, nothing else really changes. It's just in the Hall of Fame, something that should be there won't be written. So in the last couple of years, we've heard your name mentioned as a potential opponent for a lot of top names at 147, whether it was Errol Spence, Yodanus Ugas, among others. I admit, Keith, I was surprised

when this fight was announced. I didn't have you and Tim Zos. Zoo clashing on my boxing bingo card. So how does this, how does this fight come together? How do we get to this point? Simple. I got the phone call. They said, we have a date for you, but we also have a new opponent. And by the way, Keith, you do not have to say yes to this. Okay. We were mentally prepared to continue to compete at 147. But due to who, who I am today with all the meditation, all the waiting, you know, when I got the phone call, I started to feel like maybe this is universal timing. You're 35 years old. You've climbed the ladder at 147. You've competed. You unified two world titles. They didn't give you Spence, you know.

They didn't give you Crawford. Crawford's going to be moving to 54 soon. Why not beat them there? Why not, you know, why not just hop in anyways? So I don't know. You know, the, in my team, we were prepared that they were going to feed us Stanley Onus for the regular title. And I said, well, you know, you've been regular champ. You've been super champ. You've been the WBA champ and the WBC champ.

And now what? You're going to go back to being a regular champ again. And where, where's that super champ? You got to wait for Crawford to vacate that or like, you know, and it just actually, it was missing some feeling, right? So it wasn't feeling the excitement wasn't there. So Tim Zhu said, ooh, maybe, you know, maybe this is the challenge you've been waiting for, you know. And as soon as I said yes and it got announced, everybody said no. I said, I said yes.

I'm the fighter. I said, yes. They said, no, Thurman, no. You're not ready. You can't handle it. Bet, even more reason to run it, to run it, to establish and to remind people the greatness and the boxing expertise that I bring into the ring, you know? I mean, I've said it in the past.

There's no test like the Thurman test, you know? And I'm going to prove it once again come March 30th against Tim Zeele. So I know you hate the question about your activity because as you say, you've been in the gym a lot over these last couple of years. You haven't been slacking off or retired or any of those things. But it is one of the big questions about- Yeah, quick summary. I'll give it to you. I've talked about this a lot. So I fight Mario Barrios, right?

Boom. Almost win 12 out of 12 rounds, right? boxing clinics. We move past that. No fights. Who's going to fight Keith Thurman when there's no title on the line? What do you gain? You just gain a name?

And then I'm supposed to fight guys who don't have titles too? What's out there in the world of boxing? So none of that made sense. Cool. For once in my life, boxing politics, we're starting to go my way. The sanctioned body down in Mexico, WBC, boom, boom, put a mandate. on Thurmond Spence. Long story short, I won't get into the details.

Wic-Wigy-Wigoo. He wiggled out of that, right? For whatever reason. So now I'm waiting. I was waiting. I was ready. I was happy. I thought something powerful manifested.

I'm back sitting on the bench once again. He's getting the big fight with Terrence Crawford. The fight was already interesting. Thurman versus Spence, the people like that, but Thurman or Crawford versus Spence, that was the fight everybody wanted to see, right? So I'm not mad at the industry. I know why it happened, right? It is what it is.

Okay, what are they going to do with Thurman? I got a list of names. They said, they said, we should be able to get you Uyghaz. I'm mentally prepared for Uyghaz. I said yes, no problem. who gots fights Mario barrios what's next well

you have stanleonis you have boots enis they're like stanleonis got the has been champion boots has recently been champion now okay so they were going to give me stanleonis give me a title shot

okay but things have happened showtime was getting out network drama boom boom boom boom boom boom boom I'm pretty sure Stanley Onus was in the waiting, you know, and Stanley Onus is feeling like Keith Thurman now. Like, hey, I've been waiting. This happened. I was promised Thurman.

Now Thurman's fighting Zoo. That was a curveball. I couldn't help it. Zoo has a better record. He has more clout. And with my resume, it just felt like the right match to make. I don't want to just come back in a boxing. I don't want to just make a paycheck.

I want to do what I've always done and create some of the most exciting fights of the year in the sport of boxing, some of the best matchups possible. We're talking about Thurman, Thurman Porter, you know, Thurman Garcia, Thurman Pachial, you know. I mean, I just love making meaningful fights. So this was just something that me personally as a fighter, when I'm in the gym, when I'm dieting, when I'm exercising, When I'm putting in, when I'm putting in all the work and I'm sweating and I'm sweating, I got to change shirts and this and that and I can ring them out, you know? It's not, you know, what's on the other side for me? I don't get the title, but Derman beats Tim Zoot will shut a lot of people up.

Derman knocks out Tim Zoo, shuts everybody up. There's no question about. about that. There's too much, there's too much that I like. When I, when I sign the contract, I need to like it. There's too much that I like in this fight, you know. Is it risky? Yes. When has it not been? You know, we not, not, not, not to diss my former opponent, Danny Garcia, but, you know, he's been shot at by being called a cherry picker in his career. Floyd Mayweather has been shot at, even though he is one of the best ever. He's still. still has been known to be a cherry picker in his career.

And just Keith Therm is not that. And this fight is just more evidence of the type of fighter that I am. There is no question. There is no cherry picking to this fight. This is a good fight and a very tough fight for you. When you look at what Tim Zuz done of late, I'm of the opinion, Keith. He's getting better, right? Like I saw the Gosey fight.

He got knocked down early, won that fight. but I saw a vulnerable guy in that Gosey fight. I bet against him against Tony Harrison, lost some money on that one, because I thought Tony was going to be able to outbox him. He got stopped. Ocampo, quick stoppage. The last fight, fights Mendoza.

Mendoza, he can take a beating. And Tim's do pretty good beating on him. I guess the question is, what is your pathway to victory here against a naturally bigger fighter who seems like he's getting better? Yeah, you know, I mean, Tony Harrison was doing fine.

Tony Harrison was doing fine. You know, he ran out of gas. You know, that's, that's, you know, that's, you know, that's the work you put in in camp. You know, you got to be ready. If you're, if you're going to be using the ring, you're going to be backpedaling, if you're going to be doing certain things, you know, you got to have the endurance. You know, this is an endurance sport. Tim Zoo's very he's a pressure fighter

he's very calm he's lanky I think his right hand is his best punch whether it's the right hand right hook right uppercut he's got a decent left hook he's not like he doesn't he's not capable of throwing a solid left hook but he just seems

as a right handed fighter he reminds me of a dominant right handed fighter and it's just boxing styles makes fights people say he's beating all these guys who Harrison had a reach Harrison had a good height on him you know but it didn't bother him none styles makes fights I lost to a smaller man you know we've seen smaller guys move up and give people a lot of challenges a lot of times there's a different hand speed when lightweight lightweight fighters move up and wait you know so um one I just believe in

myself, the way that I always believe to myself, I see a daunting task in front of me, and I'm just mentally, physically preparing for this fight. And I just believe that fundamentally, I can pick the right shots at the right times, use my IQ, and just make it a type of chess match that he's yet to encounter at this level in the sport of boxing. You use the phrase gas tank there, and it's a good one for a fight like this. You are going to have to have a full gas tank going up against Tim Zoo. Since 2017, Keith, you've been in the ring just three times. You're 35 years old.

Do you believe you have the gas tank you're going to need to outmaneuver a guy like Tim Zoo? That's what training camp's all about. you know it's not has nothing to do with you know the variables you're throwing out now of course the bookies they don't like they don't like the statistics that i'm bringing into the ring inactivity 35 years old you know hasn't been seen who is keitherman what what does he got does he got anything you know and that's why i love the fight i get to show everything i get to reestablish myself this is Like this is the whole purpose of of the challenge, you know. I mean, me and Tim were on Instagram live the other day.

Saw that. That was great. He's going to knock me out in two rounds. No one's knocked me out of my whole career. You didn't knock out Mendoza. And Mendoza just moves a little. It doesn't move like Thurman. Madoza moves a little.

You're going to have to adjust and pivot and move. And you're going to have to find me. and then and then I'm gonna I'm gonna be there and I'm gonna find you these hands they hit their mark I'm an accurate fighter anybody who's been in in the ring with me has not gone unpaid you know so Pachial won the fight he spent three minutes in the post fight conference he laid down he practically said thank you everybody Keith Thurman punched me in the face and it was a great fight I gotta go lay the F-town okay so people talk about me not knocking people out yada yada yada yada you know i'm i'm always i'm actually inspired by tank davis i love tank

davis i tell people all the time you know there's two people that before tank davis there was dante walder right he was bomb squad dropping bombs right so those two fighters there when it comes to dropping bombs and when it comes to a tank that name itself you know i've always been keith one time thurman right but i haven't been exuding that type of power that i originally got my name name from Keith one time Thurman, but tank, he just, he constantly shows you what you're dealing with. You're not dealing with a knife, okay? You're not dealing with a pistol. You're not dealing with a sniper, even though he's got a little snip in him, okay? You're dealing, you're not even dealing with a bazooka or rocket launcher, people. You're dealing with a tank, okay? What happens when

the tank just, it goes, okay it's it's heavy it's heavy you know and there's a certain mindset i call it fighter psychology right when when you look at when you look at uh sweet pete penel wittaker right when you look at sweet peat when you look at money mayweather right they're already giving you their psychology they're already helping you understand who they are you see what i'm saying here so he's one time just needs to reestablish what I've done in the past and what I'm capable of doing in the present. Anybody who's fought me knows that I'm a puncher, regardless of if they were dropped or not, Barrios was rocked several times, Sean Porter was rocked several times.

It is what it is. But closing the show is a mindset that Mike Tyson, you know, I'm going to eat his children. just like a lion. I'm going to rip us. I'm going to rip us. You know, there's a mindset. There's a certain intensity and a velocity that needs to be there. And I'm doing my best.

We still got weeks out. I'm doing my best. I got multiple sparring sessions to come. And I'm just trying to dial in and get into that killer mindset so that when this guy messes up, how many times? How many times is you going to need to mess up? he's going to need to mess up one time. And if I get my foot in that door, I got to slam it shut. And that's that, you know.

So, I mean, I just love boxing. I believe in myself. Yes, this is a tough fight. But wins a better time than now to find out, does Keith Thurman belong at 154? Before I let you go, real quick, I've got to get your take on. what's happening with Ryan Garcia right now. You're selling a pay-per-view in the moment. You know what that's all about.

As a fighter, what's your reaction to seeing kind of what is going on with Ryan Garcia? I don't know. You know, there's mixed news going on. He was just saying, you know, he doesn't have access to his stuff. People are attacking him. This and that. You know, young man with money, you know. at the end of the day, we're not perfect people.

We're just people, right? People need to be lenient with Ryan. People need to pray for Ryan. I hope that he centers himself. Hope that he gets the right people behind him. You know, at least I do. I pray that he gets the right people behind him. You know, a lot, once you get to this level,

people don't tell you what to do no more, right? You might know a little something about that, right? People stop telling you what to do because we write the checks all of a sudden. It changes the whole dynamics, right? When Ryan was an amateur and this and that, yes, sir, no sir, yes, sir, yes, coach. Okay, all right, let's do it, you know. And now it's like, well, I fire this coach. I'm going to go to train with these people.

And then I'm going to see how this team works out. If I don't like them, I'm going to go train with these people, right? So, and he has all the right to do that, and he should find the right team for him. If he feels like he's learned what he's learned from a certain team, he wants to evolve, he wants to be with trainers that have a certain expertise, but you've got to have the right dynamics, and you got to have somebody that's going to tell you how it is and not be scared that you're going to leave them, you know, that they can live with or without you, you know, and that's why I would just say, you know, just all, you know, he's a talented young man.

I actually, I like his style. I like what he brings to the sport of boxing. You know, I knew he wasn't ready for tank, but regardless, you know, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the last fight of his that I watched. I wish him best of luck. I know he has a big fight coming up. Once again, he's fighting a very crafty and very skillful fighter. But I believe he has more skills than the last opponent.

that Haney faced. So I think it's a good matchup. And as long as he gets his head right and just doesn't get caught up in too much drama and focuses on himself and does the best for himself to represent himself, you know, win, lose, or draw, you can always, you know, just continue. Because we are the fighters. We are what brings value to boxing. And that's why I'm happy to be.

back to reestablish my value in boxing. Like I said, does Keith Thurman belong at 154? We will find out. And it's Tim Zhu's job to challenge me. It's my job to challenge him. I love boxing, you know. And like I said, enough doesn't get talked about about how no matter what, no matter how much money, about how perfect you think people have it just because they're making big checks in life, just because they have fancy cars. That's all materialistic, you know. There's a lot of books. Success.

True success is something that you cultivate within yourself, right? True success is having contentment with your walk and how you uphold yourself. daily, right? That's real success. All this other success is mundane. It'll be here one day. It'll be gone tomorrow. You know, I've had success. I'm stepping back in the ring to try to further success. But where I'm at in my inner peace, I feel more successful now than I ever have. Well, it's good to have you back, Keith, Thurman, Tim Zoo, Amazon Prime, pay-per-view.

Great to see you, man. Good luck to you on March 30th. Thanks a lot, my man. Enjoy the fight. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Ade Oladipo and Keith Thurman if I joined the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast,

Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smy, and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the Enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardweight with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.