The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Boxer vs. the Brawler

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Chris is joined this week by Keith Idec from BoxingScene.com. The guys dive into who should be Fighter of The Year (7:53), the battle between Ryan Garcia, Bernard Hopkins, and Oscar DeLa Hoya (10:15), and they preview the Devin Haney-Regis Prograis fight (39:15). Later, Chris is joined by Regis Prograis to give his thoughts on  his prep leading up to his fight with Haney, why he can out box him, and what makes him the better fighter (1:09:25). All that and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Manix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. I want to thank everyone who's listening on their podcast feed. If you are not subscribed to the show, what are you waiting for?

Get over to Apple Podcast to Spotify. Hit that subscribe button so that you get this pod in your feed every single week. So this is one of those weeks that I am really grateful that I get to do this show because we have so much to talk about. We had a big event last weekend headlined by Ryan Garcia. Garcia gets the stoppage win over Oscar Duarte, knocks him out in the eighth round. But it was not a win that came without questions for Ryan Garcia, who did some kind of strange things during that fight that we're going to talk about. There was also a whole lot of drama between Ryan and.

and his promoters, Oscar Delahoya and Bernard Hopkins. We're going to unpack that as well. And then this weekend, Saturday night, DeZone Paperview, you have got Devin Haney against Regis Progrey, the best against the best, the former undisputed champion at 135 pounds in Devin Haney. And the guy, I think, is the top dog at 140, the title holder, Regis Progrey.

This is going to be a tremendous event. It's already been a tremendous promotion. You've got an anticipated sellout at the Chase Center in San Francisco. Not one of those like sold out, but it's really scaled for like 5,000. They're talking about 18, 19,000 fans in the Chase Center on Saturday in San Francisco. That is remarkable for two guys who have really yet to prove that they can be big time draw. So the crowd is going to be electric. I mentioned the promotion has been terrific.

There is some legitimate bad blood between Regis Pro Gray and. and Devin Haney and legitimate bad blood between the camps of Regis Progray and the camps of Devin Haney. So I think it's going to be a terrific event. You've got the master boxer in Haney against the master brawler in Regis Progrey. A terrific clash of style. It's going to be a fun night and a great fight to talk about on this podcast. Keith Ideck, senior writer, boxing scene.com, good friend of the podcast. He's going to join me to talk about everything from the Garcia stuff, the Garcia Golden Boy stuff,

Haney Progrey. Jaime Mungia, he's now in the mix to potentially fight Canelo Alvarez. We're going to get into that as well. A little bit later, Regis Progrey himself. He joins the show. Regis has done a lot of media over the last couple of months. He joins me to talk about the preparation for this fight, why he believes he can outbox Haney and why he believes he is the better fighter

and he will show it on Saturday night. So stick around for that conversation with Regis Progray. One housekeeping item. I'm headed to San Francisco on Thursday morning. So by the time you listen to this, I will already be in San Fran. I'm going to try to do a second podcast this week. I'm going to try to bring you one Saturday morning. I'm going to try to catch some people, maybe some people on the undercard,

maybe tracked out Eddie Hearn, maybe another writer. But I'm going to bring you a second podcast for this week because I think this event is worth it. I think there's just so much to get into and so many things to unpack when it comes to Haney and Pro Gray. We're going to do a second podcast later in the week. All right, Keith Iding, senior writer, boxing scene.com. He'll be with me in San Francisco this weekend for the Devin Haney, Regis Progray, 140-pound title fights. If I could watch live on his own pay-per-view in the U.S.

And Keith, I was thinking about this earlier in the week. Devin Haney wins. He would have a pretty good case to be called Fighter of the Year, but he wouldn't be the only one. This is about as crowded a full. Fighter of the Year field, I can remember. I mean, David Benavides has a good case. David Haney, if he wins, has a good case. Hell, Neuoy, Inouye, has a great case if he winds if he winds up winning his 122-pound unification fight at the end of the month. Is this as crowded

a feel for the fighter of the year as, as you can remember? It's pretty crowded, Chris. One thing I would say is that if he had fought twice, I think Terrence Crawford would run away with the award, to be honest with you, because his win against Spence was so decisive and so unforeseen in the way that it unfolded. It was a great win. It's a career-defining win, but he's only fought once.

And if you look at what in a way we'll have done, if he beats Marlon Topalus in the way that people expect that he will, he'll become the fully unified champion in a second division within four months or five months or so of each other. I guess it would be five, right?

Yeah, five, July and December. it's hard to argue against Inouye winning fighter of the year. You know, David Benavides's wins were very good. I mean, he beat Andrade in a very convincing fashion. You know, he pulled away from Plant in the second half of the fight. Clearly, you can make an argument for him. I think if Inouye wins decisive, like say he knocks out Marlon Topalas and becomes the fully unified 122-pound champion, I think people will tend to give the award to him just because he fought twice.

I could also see the argument, though, for Crawford, because his win was so significant and he was so dominant against an undefeated fighter. I could see people making that argument. It's not really his fault that he didn't fight twice. I mean, he signed up for this immediate rematch and it's not happening, you know, until sometime in the first quarter of 2024 or whatever is going to happen here with PBC. So it's hard to hold that against him because he wanted, he was. wanted the fight to happen, the first fight to happen sooner than it did and certainly wanted the rematch to happen before the end of the year. Yeah, there's plenty of arguments to be made for all those guys, but activity is important, and I do think people will hold that against

Crawford, unfortunately, and that will just give Terrence Crawford more ammunition to fire off on his critics, which he seems to enjoy anyway, so, you know. Yeah, this is one of those ballots where I think style points could matter here. Like, If Devin Haney goes out and absolutely dominates Regis Progrey, giving him a win over Lomachenko officially and over Progray, that's going to be a pretty compelling argument. If Inouye goes out and blasts out Marlon Topales to have, you know, a knockout win over Stephen Fulton and a knockout win over Marlon Topales in your first two fights at 122 pounds. That's a pretty strong argument as well. So I think style points are going to matter when people start filling out their ballots at the end of the year. We'll get back to that topic at a later date.

I want to talk about Ryan Garcia and the way the fight between Ryan Garcia and Oscar Duarte played out this past weekend. Ryan makes his return. First fight officially, you know, out of the 135 pound division. He gets a knockout win over Oscar Duarte. Before we get to any of that, Keith, what I saw playing out last week between Ryan Garcia and his promoters, Bernard Hopkins and Oscar Deloitte. was one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

Because here you have the star of Golden Boy promotions, Ryan Garcia, one of the biggest stars, most bankable stars in boxing today. In the days prior to what is a really important fight for his career, he has spent that time in pretty toxic arguments with his, two promoters. It all kind of began early in the week when Bernard Hopkins made some kind of comment where he suggested that he, Bernard Hopkins, would make an assessment on how Ryan Garcia's career should continue after he watched Ryan Garcia fight. Ryan took exception to that. Oscar Delahoya weighed in on social media. Ryan took exception to that. I was down there in Houston

all week, Keith. That was a frosty dynamic between Ryan Garcia and his promoters. And sometimes when stuff like this happens, sometimes I wonder like what piece I'm missing. Like, you know, Oscar and Bernard are doing this for a reason, right? They have to be doing this for a reason. There's got to be some method to the madness. For the life of me, days later,

I can't figure out the method to the madness. I can't figure out why. Leading into the biggest fight of Ryan Garcia's, career up until that point because they needed to get a win. A loss would have been catastrophic for him. Why his promoters would be engaging him like that, would be creating a distraction effectively out of nothing like that. I still cannot figure out why what I saw go down actually went down. So you tell me, what was your take on the back and forth all week long between Ryan Garcia and Golden Boy promotions?

Yeah, Chris, it was sort of the theater of the absurd, right? I mean, they're supposed to be boosting this kid's career up. And I don't think Oscar, in this case, he has done it in the past where he's antagonized Ryan Garcia. But I think he was more reacting to what Ryan Garcia said at the press conference. I found it sort of hilarious that Ryan Garcia went up there and said what he said. And then Oscar just comes to the microphone and he goes, well, that wraps it up for the press conference. Thank you for coming as if he didn't say all those crazy things. but you could see the way that Oscar was reacting in the background, like, oh, my God, we're going through this in real time.

I think there's blame to go around here. I don't know what, but, you know, Bernard doesn't hold his tongue. He never has when he was a fighter. He was very outspoken and went after virtually everyone. I don't know how it helps in any way, as you said, Chris, to antagonize Ryan Garcia with whom they're embroiled in this legal dispute as it is. It's kind of weird that, you know, it's not common for a fighter and a promoter to be engaged in legal proceedings and then going forward with the fight together. That doesn't usually happen. So that made it a strange circumstance in itself.

I don't know what any of them are getting out of it. I mean, there are people that will tell you that this is all the work, that this is all manufactured drama. I don't believe that. I don't believe that either. But there would be some work if they were doing that, right? I mean, to just try to generate interest in the fight and everything. But look, I understand Ryan Garcia taking exception to Bernard saying something to the effect that he's going to decide whether Ryan Garcia. I don't know if he literally meant that.

I just think he was saying that that's kind of his perspective on it. I don't think he was saying that he would be the final decider of whether Ryan Garcia would fight or not. But that's certainly the way Ryan Garcia took it. And then to bring the Joe Smith thing up about, you know, what he said about Calzagie back in 2008 and then say, I'm never going to lose to a white boy. And then Joe Smith knocked him out of the ring. That was a low blow, so to speak. But I think Ryan Garcia was pissed off.

And he's like, you know, these are two. All three of these guys have big egos, as we all know. They're all alpha males. And they're just budding heads here. And Ryan Garcia was not going. I think he was trying to show the old guard. I'm not backing down from this. You're not just going to come up here and say whatever you want to say about me.

And I'm just going to sit here and take it. You know, so he's. he's standing up for himself to some degree. It doesn't play out well for any of them in public, I don't think. But I think this is, as weird as it was, I think it will continue until they go their separate ways. And from Golden Boy's perspective, they're not going to allow that to happen. If they, if they emerge victorious from this legal proceeding, which they think that they will, he's a very valuable commodity that they've helped to build up. Now, he's helped build his own profile, of course, on social media and everything, but they've invested a lot of time,

a lot of money, and they've stuck with him through injuries and some mental health issues and everything. So he's now one of the biggest stars in boxing, one of the most bankable stars in boxing, and he's a valuable commodity. So they're not just going to walk away from that unless he pays them an enormous amount of money to go their separate ways. So they're kind of, it's like a toxic marriage that you can't get out of in the short term anyway. So they're kind of. They're kind of, kind of stuck with each other and from our from the perspective of the media and from fans you know again it's the theater of the absurd but but people it's drawing a lot of attention it's a lot of negative attention but it kind of is what it is and i don't see how it changes moving forward

yeah i can't tell if the i don't think the negative attention was an overall plus for you know the audience for ryan garcy oscar duarte i i don't i don't see how that benefited the event. And more importantly, if you're Golden Boy, this is the guy generating all the money. And look, it's one thing to have big egos. Lots of promoters have big egos. Eddie Hearn has a massive

ego. Bob Aram has a big ego. Frank Warren has a big ego. But I can't envision any of those promoters operating like this. Like, could you imagine, Keith, like for an example, like Eddie Hearn, who never

even never comes close to crossing Anthony Joshua ever. Like consistently backs Anthony Joshua to the hilt. Could you imagine him going out there and antagonizing Anthony Joshua before his comeback fight against Jermaine Franklin? Like, could you imagine that? Like people have pointed out to me, well, Bob Aram and Terrence Crawford had bad blood towards the end.

They did. But for a long time, Bob Aram, you know, was Terence Crawford's greatest advocate, was behind him all the way. And only at the very end when things had really, devolved for a multitude of reasons did things go sour between Bob Aram and Terrence Crawford. Same thing with Frank Warren and Tyson Fury.

Frank Warren, like, whatever Tyson Fury says he wants to do, if Tyson Fury says he wants to box on Mars, Frank Warren's going to call that the greatest idea he's ever heard. So it's, you just, I can't fathom them doing this. And look, this was, again, not

reactionary. This was proactive. Bernard said what he said in an interview. Oscar Delahoya weighed in multiple times on social media, the last time more abhorrently than others, like questioning the mental health of Ryan Garcia. Someone has gone through mental health issues. That tweet was later deleted, but that was out there for everyone to ultimately see. I just don't get it. This is a guy, this isn't biting the hand that feeds you. This is like sticking it in the guillotine and swiping it off. Like I don't, I just don't understand what the thinking is, unless, to your point,

you know, they believe they've got the greatest contract ever. Like they believe they've got Ryan, you know, locked in to a multi-year contract, which is what they believe. And no matter what they say to them or what they do, that contract is still going to be valid at the end of the day. And they're probably banking on Ryan not wanting to be inactive for any period of time. That's something Ryan said over and over again. I don't want to take time off.

I don't want to be inactive. I've had too many bouts of that already early in my career. So maybe they believe they're. in a position of strength here. I still don't understand it. I still don't get why they would take that approach when it comes to Ryan Garcia, especially since it's like, we've kind of seen this already, right? Like, you know, it was a few years ago. Canello went through this, you know, with Golden Boy. For some different reasons, of course, Canello contractually had some things going on. But like, they, they had a bad relationship with Conello towards the end. Now you

have a bad relationship with Ryan Garcia. To Golden Boy's credit, they still keep signing guys. Floyd Schofield can fight. Like, that's a talented young kid. Like, they keep churning out prospects at as good or rate or better as most promotional outfits that are out there. But I just don't understand why you'd want to butt heads with your starfighter, especially when he's a couple of days before his biggest fight. So let's talk about that fight.

Oscar Duarte, you knew it was going to be a physical fight. Oscar Duarte is a big, strong guy. You saw them at the way in. Oscar Duarte had no problem filling up to the 143 pound. catch weight that they agreed upon. Ryan Garcia ultimately gets the knockout. He was up on the scorecards, the time of the knockout. It was not a fight that wasn't without its fault problems.

Ryan Garcia decides the channels inner Floyd Mayweather in the middle rounds of that fight, does kind of a shoulder roll defense. What was your take on how Ryan fought last Saturday? It was an uneven performance, Chris. You know, I didn't think he looked particularly good overall. You know, I'm sure he's trying to adjust to some of the things. that Derek James is teaching him. They always say a new trainer and a fighter need multiple training camps before he can really

start to implement what the trainer's teaching him. And sometimes if you don't have a good student, he's never going to implement any of what you're teaching him anyway. I'm not saying that's the case with Garcia, but I didn't expect to see the best Ryan Garcia in this fight because he has a new trainer. He's coming off the first loss of his career. And there is a mental impact as it relates to getting in the ring for the first time since you've been knocked out.

You know, when he went to the shoulder roll, you made a very, astute observation during the broadcast when you said that, you know, maybe he's trying to protect the right side of his body. Maybe there's still some vulnerability there because, you know, he was knocked out with a body punch by Javante Davis in his last fight. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's a lingering issue. Who knows? I mean, he seemed to dismiss that sort of when you mentioned it to him in the post-fight interview, but that almost made me believe more that maybe there's something there because he was just, he just kind of brushed past it because it was an odd strategy. I mean, the way he, it wasn't effective. I don't know what he, and so what was he

accomplishing besides protecting the right side of his body where, you know, almost halfway turned around or almost all the way turned around where Duarte couldn't get to his body. And Duarte had thrown a lot of body punches before that point in the fight and seemingly was hell bent on getting to his body. So maybe that had something to do with it. Look, ultimately, it goes down as an eighth round knockout for Ryan Garcia. He did, in the end, he did what he was supposed to do to a lightweight. If you're a big puncher, and this fight was technically a welterweight fight, it wasn't even a junior welterweight fight, and Oscar Duarte is coming up and wait by, you know, two divisions technically. He did what he was supposed to do. He got an eighth round knockout.

It wasn't easy, wasn't pretty, didn't look nearly as good as he has looked in other fights. but he got the job done, you move forward, and now there are a lot of very attractive fights for Ryan Garcia in the 140-pound division. And the bottom line is, whatever people think of Ryan Garcia, whether you, you know, older people like me and, you know, be a much older people even who don't like this social media world that we live in and this, you know, the way that people have been built into stars and everything. The bottom line is this kid is a star.

So, and usually he knocks people out, which boxing fans also love. You know, I understand people are going to react negatively to some of the things that he does and says and all that kind of stuff. That's the case with most boxers. But you can't deny that the kid is a valuable commodity to Golden Boy and to, you know, obviously to the sport in general. And people are going to, when he fights, people are going to want to see him fight. Much like, and I'm not comparing him to Floyd Mayweather, that's not what I mean at all.

but people either want to, you know, you're a big Ryan Garcia fan, whether you're a 12-year-old girl or you're from California, whatever the case might be, or you want somebody to knock him out like Giovante Davis did. But people will tune in when he fights. Yeah, there's no question about that. The shoulder roll was strange. I'm with you. You know, the only explanation that made sense at that time was that Ryan Garcia was trying to protect that right side because he set out. after the fight, he was trying to slow the momentum of Ostra Duarte. What momentum? Like, Duarte was down for Zip on my scorecard when Ryan made that transition

to that shoulder roll. And it obviously wasn't something that he had worked on in camp because he admitted afterwards, Derek James was like, stop doing that. Like, I don't know why you were doing that, but it's not kind of, it's not what we work on there. So it didn't make, it just, it was so weird. Like, it just didn't make any sense. He was winning the fight and then he goes into a defense that he hadn't worked on and wasn't particularly good at. He eventually went back to kind of that movement. And look, I was fine with the movement. In fact, I think the movement is probably a good thing for Ryan Garcia.

I said this on air. Like, Ryan is not going to have the physical gifts at 135 or 140 that he had at 135. He's not going to be the biggest guy out there. He's not going to be able to walk everybody down. So if he's able to move, and he's going to get better at that, as he gets, another training camp with Derek and more activity. If he's able to move, plant his feet, throw counter shots, like there's a dangerous fighter in there fighting that particular style.

But the shoulder roll was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. The stoppage, by the way, I don't know if you had an opinion on that. I thought it was perfectly fine. You know, Oscar Duarte is out there saying, you know, the referee did me wrong. But if you get up at nine and a half, that's your way of not getting up. You know, getting up at nine and a half is your way of getting up after the fight's

been waved off because you want to save face of the press conference later. You want to be able to tell people, I got up, I got up. I don't know what this referee was talking about. He was pretty clear-eyed as the ref was counting. He heard eight. A rep was right in his face. He didn't get up. I thought the referee made the right call and waving that fight off. Yeah, and the referee, James Green, was literally right in his face counting. So there was no discrepancy about what the count was or anything. Look, the only instance I would give the fighter the benefit of the doubt getting up at nine, nine and a half is if you're badly hurt and you barely could reach your feet and you do just in the nick of time, then I could see you saying, well, you know, geez, man, that guy just

knocked me silly with a left hook and give me a chance to, you know, regain my bearings and all that kind of stuff. In that case, I could see it. If you're on one knee and you're waiting four or five seconds to get up, do not wait until he counts to nine to do that because you're putting him in a position where he has to count you out. I had no problem whatsoever with what James Green did. Duarte just waited too long. If he tries to get up at, if he gets up at eight, we're not talking about this. I mean, he probably gets knocked out anyway because Ryan Garcia is a good finisher, great puncher and all that. And he's in with a bigger, stronger guy. So probably he loses by knockout anyway. But I'm with you, Chris, in that like don't wait until nine, nine and

a half and then spring up and say, hey, what the hell are you doing? I mean, if you're asking for problems when you do that. And if you're in that position, if you're a fighter in that position, dude, your career is, you know, this is the biggest fight of your career. Everything's hanging in the balance here. Don't leave it to chance. Get up at eight. Yeah, I agree with you. So Ryan Garcia called out Roli Romero after the fight. And that to me makes a lot of sense because Ryan versus Roli would be, I mean, it would be a hell of a press tour. That's for sure. Because one thing Roley has shown is that he can sell a fight. He's also kind of an ideal next step opponent for Ryan Garcia, who doubles as a title holder. He does have a piece of the 140 pound crown. I saw

our good friend, Gilbertoco, in the ring with Ryan Garcia wrapping a belt around his weight. I don't know what belt he was wearing, Keith. Is that the catchweight championship of the world that Ryan Garcia was wearing right after the fight? But he had some gold there afterwards. And I'm not sure sure about that. So I think the WBA would be, would find a way to make the Ryan Garcia-Roli fight sanctioned and happen if Roli's healthy. That's the other unknown in all this. I mean, Roli's been out since that questionable win over Ishmael Barroso and he has had been on some kind of medical leave for a while. We don't know what's wrong with them.

Let's start with that, right? I mean, this is a very mysterious situation. I don't know what's going on. I've tried to find out. I don't know. There have been some not to, like, there have been some whispers that, like, it's like, might be the kind of thing he doesn't come back from. Like, I've heard a variety of different things about whatever is wrong with Roli. But what was wrong was enough for the WBA to sanction an interim fight between O'Hara Davies and Ishmael Barossa, which was supposed to take place on the undercard of Garcia against D'Warte.

That fight's been pushed into the future. We can get into that. Right. If and when that fight ultimately happens. But, yeah, I don't know if Roli is healthy. Right. I'm not casting aspersion. I don't know.

I'm not saying he's not hurt. All I'm saying is we don't know definitively what is wrong with him and how much longer he's going to be out. He did do an interview with fight hype, Sean Zettel right after Ryan Garcia fought. And he said, I'm getting healthy. That's all he really said.

He said, I'm getting there. And he probably would be ready to fight Ryan Garcia in, I think March or April were the two months that Sean mentioned to him because I think that's what Ryan Garcia had said. So he said he would probably, be ready for that. Like you said, Chris, the WBA's ridiculousness committee can probably come up with anything to justify them fighting next. If I'm Ismail Barroso's manager, promoter, whatever,

and there's no guarantee that he's going to beat O'Hara Davies, it's a fight that could go either way. Let's just say, and it's not Barroso's fault, right? I mean, Barroso trained, he was ready to fight, O'Hara Davies had visa issues, couldn't get to Houston for the fight. How much is Ismao Barroso supposed to take? He's winning on all three scorecards against Roli Romero. Yes, he was hurt in the ninth round of that fight. It's a questionable stoppage at the very least by Tony Weeks. Okay, you're 40 years old, you're not in a position of power.

You get this fight against O'Hara Davies, which is supposed to get, it will get the winner, the interim title, and make you the mandatory. challenger for Roli Romero. Now he's supposed to wait for O'Hara Davies to be able to get into the country or to have the fight rescheduled or whatever's going to happen. And then he's supposed to wait for Roli Romero to fight Ryan. Like, how much is this guy supposed to take? I mean, it's, I'm not saying the WBA won't do it because these sanctioning organizations make up the rules as they go along, as we well know. It's just completely unfair to Ismail Barroso. I mean, the guy's been wronged enough

this year. I mean, try to do right by him. Now, as is always the case, boxing money talks. So, Roley and Ryan Garcia, they'll make it a pay-per-view fight. Should it be a paper? No, but it's a very marketable fight. Roli will sell the fight like no one else

and say all kinds of crazy stuff about Ryan Garcia. And Ryan Garcia, yeah, and a very popular fighter, obviously. It's a very marketable fight and it's a fight that Garcia clearly could win and then pick up one of the titles. It's just not, it's just not

And there's no guarantee that Barroso beats Davies. All I'm saying is Ismail Barroso deserves better. And hopefully, this will play out in his favor for a change. That the Davies fight can be rescheduled relatively soon. Then the winner, assuming Roli Romero is fit to fight, gets Roli Romero next. Because Ryan Garcia has other options, Chris. I mean, that's not the only fight for him. Before we get to those options, the Davies-Boroso recent,

scheduling. I don't know about that, Keith. Like, that visa issue was very strange. Like, for starters, what are we doing talking about a visa for a British fighter during Fight Week? Like, why would O'Hara Davies be traveling to Texas from the UK, like, on Wednesday of a fight week? You know, ordinarily, guys travel 10 days, two weeks before because they want to get their body acclimated. It sure sounds like this visa issue isn't small potatoes, isn't something that they're just going to, you know, make a couple of tweaks to the paperwork and he's going to be fine, you know, getting into the U.S. early next year. I don't know exactly what it is.

But, you know, we haven't heard like, okay, it's going to get rescheduled for the undercard of Virgil Ortiz, Frederick Lawson, which is the next Golden Boy Show. We haven't heard that's going to be rescheduled for the Jaime Mungia John Ryder card, which is the Golden show after that. We haven't heard any of that. So I wonder what's going to happen there. I mean, if O'Hara Davies still can't get into the U.S., by the way, Golden Boy doesn't do U.K. shows. Like they do, you know, U.S. and Mexico shows. They don't do U.K. shows. So that could be a problem for O'Hare Davies if he can't get a visa to come into the U.S. If he doesn't, like you could see a scenario where Ishmael Barroso says, you know what, I'll take some cash to be on the undercard of Ryan Garcia, Roli Romero, with a guarantee to

fight the winner afterwards. I mean, yes, Ishmael Barroso wants the prestige of being a world champion and deserves it after what happened in that first fight against Roley. But at the same time, he's in this for money. And there's a lot of money, I think, to be made between Ryan and Roley enough to get him a fight to keep him active and also to give him a nice payday in between. And look, if Ryan Garcia fought Roley Romero and beat Roly Romero, I don't doubt that the folks at Golden Boy would be perfectly fine making Ryan Garcia Barroso in that next fight. You know, just to give Ryan Garcia another chance to pick up another win. It might not be a popular fight, but I don't think they'd mind for one second

Ryan getting that kind of fight. But let's say the roller Romero fight doesn't materialize. What's the next best option out there for him? Because Teofimo is not going to happen in the first couple of months of 2024. I don't think so. The winner of Devin Haney and Regis Progris, I don't think that's going to happen in the first few months of 2024. Nor do I think that Ryan Garcia wants those kind of fights right now. One thing he's been pretty clear about is that he kind of build on what he's been doing with Derek James. And why Roley was perfect is because, yeah, he's a title holder, but he's also a lower tier title holder, not a guy that is as threatening as some of the other guys that I just mentioned. What do you think are realistic

options if a Roley fight can't be put together? Well, you just eliminated all of them, so I'm not sure. I just don't see it. Like, I just don't see those guys. But obviously, the most attractive options are Tia Fimo would be a mega fight, you know, for sure with Ryan Garcia. Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia have a lot of history and the fight's been talked about for many years. So let's just say Devin Haney. Well, what if Regis Progray wins, you know? Yeah. You know, then maybe Garcia's got, I don't know how many tuneups they're going to give quote-unquote tuneups they're going to give Ryan Garcia.

And I'm not saying that Roli Romero is a tune-up. I mean, he's the worst of the, in my opinion of the three champions that we just mentioned to Eufima Lopez, Devin Haney slash Regis Progray and him. He's the worst of those, or the most beatable of those for Ryan Garcia. But I don't know, you know, because Ryan Garcia is going to make a lot of money, too. So he's going to want to make a lot of money. So he's going to have to fight real guys, too. I don't think that he would be that he would shy away from one of those fights next, to be honest with you.

I think he's looking to make a statement in a 140-pound division. I hear what you're saying. I mean, from a practicality standpoint, maybe it won't work out. But, you know, so then, you. You've got to find a 140-pound contender for him. I don't know, Liam Parrow, if Leon Paro beats, you know, if he beats Montana Love on Saturday night and the co-feature, he's a guy who wants a big fight.

You know, while it wouldn't be a title fight, Liam Paro is undefeated. And he would, you know, he would be there to fight Ryan Garcia. That's a potential fight that you could make on his own. You know, there are. Arnold is the other name. I was thinking. There you go. Yeah.

No, absolutely. Yeah. No, Barbos is a, wants a big fight. Because Garcia, despite that he doesn't have a title, it's still viewed as a big fight because he's Ryan Garcia. So would Barbosa take that fight? I'm assuming he would, right? I mean, for the right money, I'm assuming he would take the fight.

So Barbose is a good example. Like I said, Liam Parro's there, although he's promoted by a matchroom. But, you know, there are some options there for him. But I really hope he gets a higher profile fight. And there are good fights there for him to be that. It really just depends on what happens with this Peroso-Davie's situation, Chris, like you said. But as far as Barroso goes, time is not on his side. I mean, he looks like he's 83 years old. They say he's 40.

So I don't know how much longer. He was like on his way to Houston. Like he was, that's crazy. That's what I mean. The guy's been so wrong. And he has no real leverage or anything. So he has taken step aside money before, you know, on the BBC side and everything. It's just like, you know, you just hate to see guys who do everything they're supposed to do from, you know, they pay their sanctioning fees. They get into eliminators. and et cetera, et cetera. They do the right thing. They train their ass off.

And then something beyond their control happens. And it's just like, oh, well, let us Maraoso go back to Florida and just go train again. And who cares? It's not right. I mean, at some point, somebody's got to stand up for somebody to, you know, at some, you I'm not saying that that's us. But it needs to be pointed out that this guy deserves better than what's happened to him over the last seven or eight months.

I could actually see Barroso getting a shot at Ryan Garcia. Like if the, if the Davy stuff can't. be put together because of whatever logistical issues. And if Roli-Ramero is not available in March or early April when Ryan wants to fight, I could see them offering Barroso that fight. I can see Barroso taking that fight, because it's a far more lucrative opportunity for him than whatever else might be out there. And I could see, like, I just don't think, Keith, we're going to see Ryan Garcia in a mega fight in March or April. I think when we get to the summer, that feels more realistic for Golden Boy putting Ryan Garcia in with one of those bigger names.

The Teofima one, like, I don't know what's going on with Tea Femo right now. Like, he's a very complicated guy at the moment. I know Top Rank is still trying to sort out exactly what they're going to do with him, you know, February, March, whenever it is, they can bring him back. You know, a Devin Haney fight is obviously very interesting if Haney can beat Progray, but both those guys are going to want a huge amount of money guaranteed for that fight. I think it's going to be complicated in that sense.

So I think, to me, more likely than not, we see Ryan in with like a B-level contender. if it's not Roli-Romero. They'll do everything they can to make a Roli fight, because that fight makes the most sense for both those guys. But if not, I could see Garcia Barroso. I could see Garcia, somebody else along those lines. Maybe Barbosa, but even that might be a little bit too much for Ryan, you know, in that next fight.

So we'll have to see. I just, I'm not confident we're going to get Ryan in a big fight in March or April. I'm just not at this point. So we'll see. It's a, you know, he definitely makes the division a lot more interesting because, you know, look, he still get the power. He can, he can look as kind of unorthodoxy wants for seven rounds, but eighth round comes around.

You walk into one of those shots, you're going down in the way that Oscar DeWarte ultimately went down. All right. Let's talk about the fight that we have this weekend. I am really, really looking forward to this one. You'll be out in San Francisco. I'll be out in San Francisco. Devin Haney against Regis Pro Gray, 140 pound title on the line.

You know, the first thing that strikes me about this fight, Keith, it's selling really well. Like, I don't know why. I can't for the life of me figure out why this fight is selling as many tickets as it has at the Chase Center in San Francisco. Sure, Devin Haney, nominally from San Francisco, but he moved out of there at a young age, has not fought there in any meaningful fights. Regis Progray, Houston, New Orleans, didn't really sell all that well in his hometown in his last fight. But this fight is going to do north of 15,000. And you talk to match room people, they're optimistic.

It could be a sellout. Why has this fight caught fire in that area the way that it has? That's a great question, Chris. But the one thing I would say is they priced the tickets smartly. Oftentimes the tickets are so expensive that it turns people off from going to the event. And they didn't do that here. So that, I'm sure, has been a benefit. I don't really know the answer.

I'm pleasantly surprised that this is the case. You know, Devin Haney's people will tell you that it's because he's a rising star and people want to see him fight. I'm not saying that's not part of it. But his last fight, you know, a lot of people think that Vassili Lomachenko won. It was, you know, I'm not saying it was controversial. It's a fight that could have gone either way. It's not a robbery. We've been over this before on the podcast.

And I agree with what Devin Haney has said during the buildup. up to this fight that any close fight. Now, he'll say that he definitively won, which I'm not sure about either, but neither fighter won eight rounds as Dave Moretti scored 116, 112 for Devin Haney. But

it was a close fight that could have gone either way. So it's not like he's coming off some scintillating performance or some vicious knockout. You know, he's, the reason people, you know, line up blocks and blocks down to watch Giovante Davis fight is

because he knocks people the F out. He's the most violent finisher in boxing for the most part. So people like Deonté Wilder in the heavyweight division, you know, at a moment's notice, the fight can be over. Devin Haney has accomplished more in the lightweight division, of course, than Giovante Davis. But that's why Jervante Davis is a superstar. Devin Haney doesn't fight that way.

That doesn't mean that he can't become popular. But that's, you know, his style isn't such that people are going to gravitate toward that. He's a very good boxer. But I really wish I had a better answer for you, Chris, other than to say that I, again, I'm pleasantly surprised because we don't have nearly enough ticket sellers in this sport with any sort of consistency. So to see one emerging, maybe also we've tapped into a market here that none of us knew existed because I've been covering boxing for 26, 27 years. And I don't remember a real fight like this. being in San Francisco. There hasn't been one. There was one, I believe at one point,

there was an HBO boxing after dark in San Francisco at some point. Maybe with Kareem, maybe. I may even be misremembering that, but it's not a boxing market. So maybe that's part of it too. You know, people, it's a novelty. And of course, look, it's the home arena for the Golden State Warriors, as you well know, they're maybe giving discounted tickets to Warrior season ticket holders and things like, you know, packages and things like that to kind of get people, it's a novelty. The boxing generally doesn't come, or high-level boxing like this generally does not come to the San Francisco market, so maybe there's some intrigue in that sense. But again, it's a good thing for the sport, and maybe we've tapped into something because

Haney was saying, you know, over the last couple of weeks, I want to come back and fight here again. Now, of course, the outcome of Saturday night has a lot to do with that. But maybe they're on to something. And matchroom's defense, matchroom has taken a lot of. criticism since they've entered this market for quote unquote not knowing what they're doing in terms of selling tickets in the United States. And some of the criticism is justified. But if this event winds up being the success, the legitimate success that people seem to think it's going to be, well, they deserve some credit for that. Yeah, you use the word novelty. And I think that is the

right word. I think for this market, which has not hosted a major, a boxing event. And when I say the market, you can throw the whole Bay Area in, like really since the days of Andre War. when he was putting on, you know, some big fights out in Oakland. It hasn't had that in some time or really ever. And I think there's something to that being kind of a magnet, that drawing some people in. There's a lot of people in the San Francisco area. There's a lot of money in the San Francisco area.

I think there's a lot of people, I think you'll have a lot of kind of casual boxing fans that are kind of going to show up and check this out. They hear the name Devin Haney. They're familiar with it. I think the promotion for this fight has been really good. Like it's been, the buildup has been solid overall.

So I think there's, there's something to the newness of an event like this in this area that's helped these kind of ticket stands. But I tell you, it's going to be great to kind of be in that building and feel, you know, 17,000, 18,000 fans, whatever it ultimately winds up being. We've not been in that building

when there have been that many fans for Golden State Warriors games. It's a great crowd. I'm curious if these are all Devin Haney fans. I'm sure what he's introduced as being from San Francisco, they'll get him a pop. You know, Regis for a while has been telling people they're going to be his fans there. I'm not sure he gets to that conclusion, but, you know, he's going with it. But I think it's going to be really cool. And I think it's going to make this event even bigger.

So as far as the fight itself, you know, Devin Haney takes a lot of stick for, well, I guess I should say. I don't really know why. I don't know why Devin Hayes takes a lot of stick. I mean, Devin, you know, gets criticized for some of the decisions he's made as a pro, but I think the decisions he's made have been pretty damn good. And I think Devin has proven over the last couple of years that he's going to seek out the biggest and best opportunities. And when he gets them, he's going to, you know, make sure they happen, whether it's going

twice to Australia for the Cambosis fights, fighting Vasily Lomachenko in his first, you know, non-Cambosis title defense at 135, then jumping up to 140. People can talk about Chaucer Stevenson, and yeah, that would have been a great fight. You're not going to tell me that, you know, Regis Progrey is some kind of step down from a Chaucor-Stevenson fight. I mean, Regis Progray, you know, he's arguably the number one guy at 140 pounds. Been there for a really long time. Coming off, you know, his last win wasn't great, at least wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but the fight before that just absolutely stomped Jose Zepeda in reclaiming his

titles. I don't really know why Devin Haney takes the kind of stick that he takes in the boxing role, but I gave him a lot of credit for, you know, vacating his titles, moving up and, you know, taking on arguably the top guy in the 140-pound division. What do you think? He does take a lot of criticism. He's a polarizing guy for sure, Chris. And the only thing that I can really get to as to why is his style. I think people, you know, he, look, it's been effective for him. He's, he's, he's at the elite level for sure. I think his style, because he clinches a lot, I think turns people off a little bit

because there's not really anything else to not like about him. To me, he's a very likable person. Look, he's braggadocious and he flaunts the wealth and all that kind of stuff. That's what boxers do. I mean, that's not uncommon. So he's not unlike any boxer.

He seems like a pretty, you know, a pretty nice kid to me. I mean, he doesn't, you know, he doesn't say any, you know, he had a little brief problem. with the law and everything, but like he's not always in trouble. He's not, he doesn't, there doesn't seem to be anything about him that would make him unlikable except maybe the style in which he fights sometimes. I think that's it, really, because you can't argue with how

he's gone about his career. The path he has taken to Saturday night is, is pretty incredible. He not only signed up to fight George Camposos in Australia once, he signed up to do it twice, went there and beat him convincingly in back-to-back fights. And whatever anyone thinks of the outcome of the Vasily Lomachenko fight, and I'll be the first one to say it probably could have gone either way. He beat Vasilio Lomachenko and then goes up to 140 in his first fight, he says, yeah, I'll fight Progray, who's a killer. I mean, the bottom line is Regis Progray has lost one time in his career. Whatever people think about Progray style and that Haney might out box him and all that kind of stuff, regis progrey has lost one time and it was a majority decision to the guy who eventually became the undisputed 140-pound champion.

what problem could people have with Devin Haney's, the willingness he has shown to take tough fights or to go into tough circumstances like going to Australia twice and fighting a guy in his backyard. There's not much there or not to like. And again, it's not like he's some, you know, like he's a jerk or anything. Like there's no other thing that I can think of

other than the style in which he fights. And it's not always the most. aesthetically pleasing style. And I think that's probably more what it is than anything because there's not anything else that's really identifiable that's there. No, and he does clinch. That's true. He's not a runner, though. Like, he's a boxer. He'll, he's not like runners we saw with Danielita Zaria in the last fight for Regis Procray. That was a runner. That's not who Devin Haney is. He is a boxer. And he's not going to stand there and go toe to toe to with you, but he is going to, you know, use angles, you know, use the entirety of the ring at times,

but he's not going to, you know, be on his bike the entire fight. That's not how he wins fight. This is a pretty compelling fight, I think. I mean, Devin Haney, I'm actually surprised how big a favorite he was originally listed at. It was at one point four to one. I'm kind of looking at it going, I like Devin Haney, but Devin has had some problems in recent fights against Southpaws.

He took some shots against Jojo Diaz. He took some shots against Pulitzer Lomachenko. Progrey is a Southpaw. Regis Progrey is the biggest punching Southpaw that Devin Haney has ever faced. And look, if he is disciplined and he boxes, I can easily see Devin Haney winning a 9-3 decision. I can see that happening. But even in fights where Devin Haney is winning convincingly, he's been hit. I mean, the 10th round was fight with Hori Linaris. He was winning that fight, probably 8 to 1 going into that 10th. and he winds up getting clipped in the 10th round and on his bike in 11th as he tries to recover.

So I think this is a, it's not a 50-50 fight. I do think Devin Hain deserves to be a slight favorite. But at some point, Regis Progrey, I think, is going to drag Devin Haney into a kind of a fight, like a brawl. At some point that kind of fight is going to devolve. And then we're going to see what kind of chin Devin Haney has. Like, can he hold up to the kind of power that Regis Progray has? because Regis is a very unorthodox fighter.

He's going to come in from odd angles, he's going to throw punches, kind of from odd positions, the over the top, the sweeping sort of shots. I think at some point during this fight, it's going to get real interesting. And then we'll see, you know, just how what Devin Haney's got in those moments. Yeah, I agree with what you said, Chris.

And also I think one of the biggest factors going into this fight for Regis Progray is how does he deal with the clinching? Because inevitably, there's going to be a lot of clinching in this fight. He can't leave it strictly up. to the referee to do that for him he's i'm sure bobby bent throughout training camp they've done this throughout camp uh you have to know how to get out of clinches yourself and to free yourself you can't leave it up to the referee and then you you know because then you get into a situation where you're complaining to the referee you're not fully focused on the fight he's got to be able to free himself

and allow himself to punch when devon hayney inevitably tries to clinch him because he does it in every fight this is going to happen particularly with a guy who's a huge puncher. So Devin Haney has said, and this could just be pre-fight bluster, but he did say that I'm going to surprise people with the way that I fight. Regis Progray is limited to doing X. He's going to try to land one big shot. There's no way that he can outbox me. I'm too good. I'm too smart. He can't do it. And then he's going to be left to be just winging wild shots trying to take me out. And it's not going to happen. And we all know that that's what Regis Pro Gray is going to do according to what Devon Hayton said. They don't know what I'm going to do.

I'll be interested to see if he actually fulfills that, that promise. He didn't say what he was going to do, obviously, but I would like to see if he fights differently. But I do think it's going to be a lot of boxing. And, you know, like you said, he's not a runner necessarily. But I think there's going to be a lot of jab and grab type of stuff going on. And it's incumbent upon Regis Prograde to prevent that from happening. because he's going to lose a fight like that if he allows Devin Haney to do that. Can I tell you one of the things that concerns me about Pro Gray coming into this?

He's been training in Los Angeles for this fight. First time he's had kind of a full training camp in L.A. at Brickhouse Boxing, Julian Chua, who's become a notable trainer in recent years, is going to be in his corner for this fight along with Bobby Benton, who's been his trainer for a number of years now. When I asked Regis Progray, who's going to be kind of his chief second, He said it's both of them. It's Bobby and it's Julian.

Whenever I hear that, Keith, it does raise a little bit of an alarm because only one guy can be the chief second. Only one guy can be the strongest voice in the corner. And just by it's also been a weird camp. Like he goes to L.A., Bobby's not there for some time. Like he's going back to Texas for a couple of weeks. He's working with Bobby. Bobby goes to L.A. And now he's working with him in the weeks before.

You know, you ask Regis, and Regis says, look, everything's great. Like Bobby and Julian are on the same page. The strategy is going to be, they're in lockstep with all that. But Regis has also said, and maybe he's full of it with this, that he says, I'm going to box, Devin. That's not going to happen. If Regis goes out there and tries to win a clinical boxing match with Devin, he's going to lose like 11 to 1.

It's just, that's just not his game. Do you think there's any reason for concern having kind of two different voices in your corner and not necessarily making it clear, at least publicly, who that number one voice is going to be. Yeah, Eregis has trained in the L.A. area before, but not with, you know, two training, you know, not having two trainers, but he has trained out there before. But I think because Bobby Benton was with Oshackie Foster and O'Shackie had a fight in early November, maybe that was part of why that was going on, at the same time, yeah, you're always concerned when there are too many voices and you don't know who the lead voice is in the corner, if there's any discrepancy. about that. You would hope that doesn't create any chemistry issue in his corner because you really need that time, especially when things are not going well, and there will be points in this fight when, you know, he loses rounds and everything, where he's going to need that

concise direction on what to do. So you would hope that that doesn't become a factor. I'm not sure what to make of it. It's a little surprising to me, honestly, but, you know, Bobby's been with Regis throughout his career. So, you know, hopefully it's not a factor in the fight. We obviously know who's the lead voice in Devin Haney's corner. There's no two ways about that. So that's not an issue for him. One other thing that Regis did tell me during the buildup to the fight, Chris, that I found interesting, was he was, he was like, look, you know, I wanted a hometown fight. It was, it was great that I did it.

He goes, I don't want that anymore. He goes, let Devin Haney deal. He said he had so many problems dealing with tickets. He told me a story that, like, there was a lot of, I don't know what was going. on. Like maybe they didn't have the exact amount of tickets that they were supposed to have on the day of the fight. He said he went to his mom's house on the day of the fight to sort out some sort of ticket issue in the afternoon of the fight. That's not really what a fire supposed to be doing on the day of the fight. So Regis's point was, and he wasn't, you know,

trying to excuse away. He was just saying that these hometown fights aren't all they're cracked up to be sometimes. And he said, even though Devin Haney hasn't spent a lot of time in San Francisco, He was raised in Oakland before he moved to Nevada. But let him deal with all those distractions. I can just come in and do my thing and focus on the fight and not have to worry about all that stuff, that outside noise that was problematic before my last fight. Yeah, that Zaria fight was weird for a number of reasons.

I think the hometown factor was a variable in that. I think for for for for him having, uh, the change of opponents as it was, you know, was supposed to be Liam Paro originally. That was changed to Daniel Lee to Zaria. Then Zaria, you kind of thought that Zaria was going to be someone that stood and traded with him, at least previous versions of Zaria had been that guy and all of a sudden he's on his bike running around there. So that was a kind of a confluence of events, I think for, for Regis Brow.

I think you're going to see a much better version of him, uh, in this fight. on Saturday night. A couple things before I let you go. Jaime Mungia is going to fight John Ryder in the end of January. We'll get into the mechanics of that fight down the line. But there's a lot of chatter now, Keith, that if Mungia wins, he is going to be the opponent for Canelo Alvarez in May of 24.

Two questions. Are you buying that that Mungia is in the mix to fight Canello in May? And if Canello chooses Mungia, is he facing something? backlash for not choosing the other Mexican that everybody wants in the face. That being, of course, David Benavides. As much as we all want to see Canello fight Benavides next, because it's the fight, and maybe in boxing, right, forget about the super middleweight division. It's the fight people want to see the most. It is not happening next. So we can talk about it on the podcast. Everyone can, fans can flood the forums and all this other stuff. I've always agree with you on that

one. It's not happening next. I'm not saying it won't ever happen because from what I've been led to believe as you have as well, Canello has kind of let Al Heyman know that he would like that to be the third fight of his deal with PBC, which would then leave Benavides to fight someone else in between. So I don't think Benavides will be next. And I almost get the sense that Benavides and his handler, Samson Lukowitz, his dad and everybody, they're kind of resigned to knowing that he's not fighting Canello next. They're saying all the right things and trying to goad Canello into it, but they know that he's not fighting him next. So I think the two. two most realistic options for Canelo, his May 4th fight, assuming he comes back on that date,

are Mangia, because it would be a huge fight among Mexicans. It would require PBC to work with Golden Boy and Zanfer, and that's not always easy, but they have done it. So it's a possibility, obviously. And then people don't want to hear this based on what happened on September 30th, but Jamal Charlo, by winning this fight against Jose Benavides Jr., is in the mix, to fight Canello because he's clearly not fighting it despite what he said. I don't think he's going to go back down the middleweight. The guy just weighed up almost 167 pounds a week and a half ago.

So I don't think that he's going to go back down to 160 to fight Janubeck or for what? I mean, he's not, you know, the money. If he's going to fight Canello or, you know, Caleb Plant or someone like that, it makes no sense for him to go fight Janubeck or, you know, the winner of Eraslandi Lara and Danny Garth. It's stupid. So he'll fight at 168, which seems to be the direction he's headed. So those are the two options.

I'd rather see him fight Benavita, just like everybody else. But don't love either option. But the Mungia fight, it would be huge among Mexicans because it's on Sanco-Demio weekend. And despite what Canelo has said about not wanting to fight another Mexican, he's fought other Mexicans before and will continue to do so. so I can see that happening. It's not a all that hard of a fight for Canello, unfortunately. It's kind of looked at as a as a gimmy almost based on what happened with Mungia and his fight against Derevianchenko. And you have to see, you know, John Ryder gave Canello a real fight. Whatever Canello's rationale for that was, John, he lost virtually every round, but it was a real

fight. He got up from a fifth round knockdown. He certainly didn't embarrass himself in that fight. And frankly, Jaime Mungia is not nearly as good as Kenneux. So there's no reason to think that John Ryder couldn't be very competitive with him. So, you know, we'll see what happens there, Chris. But as it relates to Mungia, removing Canello from the equation, the fight that you and I had spoken about, many other people had spoken about was him fighting Edgar Berlanga. And now he's fighting John Ryder, and Edgar Berlanga is fighting Patrick McCory. And what is happening?

Like, I mean, Jesus, you can't even make that fight? Oh, and if you believe Edgar Berlanga's team now, they're the ones that want the fight. It's Mungia that doesn't want the fight. Mungia trying to line up a fight against Canello. I don't know where DeZone factors into all this. I can't imagine DeZone letting Mungia just walk without a pretty strong opinion on it towards Golden Boy because they have paid Mungia a boatload of money over the last six years to fight. Nobody's.

nobody's, you know, since his days at 154, he has been fighting against Dazone. And he's been making seven figures in a lot of those fights. And I don't imagine that Dazone would be happy if he walked to fight Cinello on another platform, which kind of brings me to the last thing that I was going to ask you about. Canello fights Bungia on what? You know, Crawford, Errol Spence, we're hearing that first quarter of next year. On what? I've heard some rumblings about a January date for PBC.

On what? As we sit here in early December, a month to go in two, 2003. Do you think there's any clarity in what PBC is going to do in 2024? Well, Amazon is certainly going to be part of it. Yeah. In what capacity, we don't know that yet. There will be some paper due fights. I think there will also be some content on Amazon on the streaming service.

So we're hoping for that to all play out or to be announced here in the next week or two. From what I was told today, I mean, there is no, there's not a firm date for their next move being announced, but they are hoping that it comes before Christmas, obviously. I mean, Showtime's last show is a week from Saturday night. Maybe they're going to wait until Showtime is officially out of the business before they announce their next platform. That could be, and that would be the week before Christmas,

but it would kind of get swallowed up that week from the pay-per-view event in Saudi Arabia. I mean, I don't know. So the answer that I was given today by people on the inside was that we don't know when this is going to be announced. There's something to announce. We just don't know when it's going to be announced. So that's kind of the holding pattern that we're in. But it's, look, from a fan's perspective, the bigger fights are going to be on pay-per-view.

So you're still being asked to go into your pocket for a sizable amount of money far too regularly. I do think, Keith, that Amazon is going to play a bigger role than just pay-per-view. That is been the information that was relayed to me in the last couple of weeks. Now, I don't think it's going to be, in fact, I'm very certain it's not going to be a showtime-like distribution deal or a zone-like distribution deal. But I do think there will be some money for BBC to put on non-paper-view shows on Amazon. I'm not entirely clear on how many with the budget for them will be, how much Amazon is ultimately going to put in. dealing with tech companies, and you and I have discussed it in the past, very different. Tech companies do not need you.

You know, Amazon got in bed with the NFL because the NFL brings real value to them. Amazon's trying to get in bed with the NBA because the NBA would bring real value to them. I don't think boxing necessarily brings real value to Amazon, but I think there's some interest in taking a flyer on some things that PPC might be willing to do in 2024. So I think that's going to be an element to all this. But again, we'll see. You know, I've been kind of hearing the same things you are, that something is coming down the pipe with PBC, what it is. I think at the very least, I think we can both agree that the pay-per-view distribution

will largely be picked up by Amazon. They'll do a lot of pay-per-views on Amazon, or some of their pay-per-views, at least, on Amazon next year. Beyond that, I'll be very interested to see what they're able to put together, because they have a lot of fighters out there, Keith, that are looking for dates. guys that are on social media. I saw Stephen Fulton the other day on social media saying, like, I want to fight.

Like, these guys want to get back out there. And what Al does next is going to provide them a pathway or not to get back out there. And there's going to be some market correction, Chris, in the sense that fighters are going to have to accept less money. I mean, the days of getting, you know, whatever, getting to fight on Showtime or Fox or whatever, those days are gone now. And look, you know, I worked for the company that just got out of boxing, right? And it's going to negatively impact our website and a lot of things. So continuing to do the things the same way is just not going to happen, right? I mean, because people are going to want more return on their money and they're just not going to pay what's been paid in the past.

Now, maybe on the paper view fights, you know, of course, the guys are going to get their upside and all that kind of stuff. but I think the guaranteed purses for fighting on Amazon or wherever else are going to be less. And guys, look, here's what's available to you. Do you want to take it or not? If you don't, well, you can continue sitting and you make nothing. And that's the harsh reality that a lot of these fighters are going to face in 2024. Yeah, be an interesting year in boxing, that's for sure. Follow Keith Ideck on Twitter at Ideck boxing.

Read all this stuff on the Haney Prograve fight all week. over at boxing scene.com. Keith, I will see you in San Francisco on Thursday, my friend. You got it, man. I'll see you out there, Chris. And when we come back, my conversation with Regis Progrey. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English Each episode We pick it here

unpack what went down And try to make sense of how we survived it Including a recent episode With Mark Lamont Hill Waxing all about crack In the 80s To be clear

84 is big to me Not just because of crack I'm down to talk about crack On day but yeah yeah But just so y'all know At this point Mark this is the second episode Where we've discussed crack

So I'm starting to see There's a through line We also have AIDS On the table right now So Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important

year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Regis Progray is the WBC 140-pound

title holder on December 9th. He will defend his belt against Devin Haney, the former undisputed 135-pound It's a fight you can watch live on DeZone Paperview in the U.S. Part of your subscription over in the UK. So Regis, the last big fight that you were in was against Josh Taylor back in, what was 2019. Does this fight feel bigger?

No, it actually doesn't. No, no, no. I feel like the Josh Taylor fight was bigger. It was, you know, it was, it just felt bigger. I mean, you know, I think Devin is a, you know, Devon is a big name and stuff like there, but I felt like the Josh Taylor, I did feel like the Josh Taylor fight was bigger, just because you know, I went to a whole different country. It was in, you know, we was in the finals for the Super Series and I went to a whole different country. So it did feel, it just had a,

it had a bigger, it just had a bigger feel to it for me. Does that experience going through that with Josh Taylor give you any kind of advantage going into this fight? I think so. It does, you know, because it's like I've been through, you know, they say you learn from your, you learn more from your failures than you learn from, you know, your wins and stuff. stuff like that. So it definitely gives me way more of an, I feel way more of an advantage, you know, going into this, you know, like experiencing that in like experiencing it on a whole different level, you know, like I experienced it. You know, for me, I experienced that on a level where, you know, I had to go to a whole different country. You know, it wasn't just, you know, fighting somebody's back. It was fighting in a whole different country. And I was over there for, you know, like I said, I think I was over there for like a month and a half or something like that. So it definitely gives me a different, um, a different. you know, a different experience. So the face-off between you two guys has just taken off. It had more than half a million views in the first couple of days.

Matchroom posted it on its social page. I was obviously there with you guys for that. And honestly, I can't tell if there is a genuine beef between you and Devin Haney. Because at times, it sure is hell looks like you don't like him. At times, though, it looks like you kind of like him and you're having a little bit of fun with them at the same time. So how would you describe it? it's both you know like it is i think it's beef because we fighting each other you know i like i don't

i don't like him the haines i don't i don't like him the haines i don't like bill i don't like none of the haynes right now because we have to fight you know it's not like i don't like them as a person and i like that but i don't like him right now i don't you know it's like i'm disgusted with him right now because i have to fight him when you when you when you have to fight somebody that's just how you have to be you know i can't oh i can't just say oh i like him and i'm cool with him now like we we we're about the fight so no i don't like him right now i don't you know he disgusts me right now. His team, they disgust me right now because

we have to fight. I can't, I can't think of them as friends right now, you know? So as far as genuine beef, like, for me, I come from a different, I come from a different atmosphere. So, will beef, will me mean something different, you know, we talk about something just totally different. So

no, it's not like that type of beef, but yeah, fighting wise, nah, we got to fight and I don't like them. So I guess it is beef in y'all world. You know, you and your trainer during the press conference and, you know, over the last couple of weeks, have kind of pushed this narrative that, you know, Devin's kind of a different kind of fighter. You know, your trainer called his career kind of choreographed. You use the word manufactured to describe Devin Haney.

What do you mean by that? What do you guys mean by that? I just, well, I don't, I mean, my friend, I'm not going to like, he goes off the deep end sometimes. He says all kinds of stuff, you know. That's, man, he's been in more, he's been on more interviews than me right now. to be honest, he's been just talking, talking, you know, for me, I just think he had an easier route than he did have an easier route than me for sure, you know, that's what I mean by manufacture. Like, I came up to hard route. I did. Like, I had to, you know, I used to fight for, you know,

a dollar check and stuff like that, you know, and I came up the hall route. I had to beat, I had to beat, like, undefeated fighter after undefeated fighter to get where I'm at. And, you know, I didn't get signed right off the top, you know, and for me, he had it, you know, he had it easy, you know, he had, um, even though at the face off. I was like, man, how many jobs you had you know like he's never had a job in his whole life you know like that's crazy to me like I used to like to get where I'm at man I really grinded I really bust my ass to get where I'm at and um working jobs with a with a with a family with a wife and a kid and I had to work and I still had to you know do this and I still had to train like I'm training right now and he never had that he never

experienced that so that's what I mean like manufactured like you never had to do you just never had to do what I had to do you had to you had the easier route you know I'm not not going to say he had an easy role, but he definitely had an easier than I did coming up for sure. So let's talk a little bit about your training for this fight because one of the things you've said over the last few weeks is that you are very much capable about boxing Devin Haney. I think everybody knows you've got the power advantage in this fight, but you believe you've got the skills advantage as well, that you have, have that ability in you. Is any of that kind of a Jedi mind trick you're trying to play on Devin here?

No, I feel like that. No, I actually feel I know I have the skills. I cannot box Devin. I mean, people like i don't i don't go i'm not i don't believe what the people say the people can say it is the people can say that the media can say all kinds of stuff i don't believe that i believe in myself truly 100 so um yeah man i i i truly believe i'm i'm a better fighter i really believe i'm a better fighter overall you know but the thing is like you know with him he has to show that over 12 rounds i i i hurt people i know what i do i hurt people in but i can you know i can box if i need to I can box and stuff like that. But if I catch somebody clean, most likely I'm going to hurt them.

And it might be over. So, you know, I think that's why it's a little difference because, you know, he don't knock on it by it. He's known for going to our rounds. He has to. But, you know, me, I stop people. You're training in L.A. for this fight. Is this the first time you've trained in L.A.?

No, this is the longest, though. I've actually been out here a total of like two months. You know, I started, I really, man, it's been a long camp. I started in Texas. I've been like in camp for four months for this fight already. So it's like kind of like double. And I've been here, you know, I started out there in Texas, then I came here for a month.

And I went back to Texas for my kids' birthday. I stayed for three weeks and I'm out here for another month. So total, I've been out here for like two months in, in L.A. And, you know, it's just because I'm so serious about this fight, you know, I never did. I never did this before. I only, usually I come to L.A., I'll stay about two weeks, two or three weeks, and that's it. But this time I stay for two months.

So, yeah, I'm just, it's just a big difference right now. I was, you know, I'm just, I'm so serious about this. This is a, you know, this is the, this is a big fight. So I'm just serious about my training and just taking everything like I need to. And I feel like the, you know, just like sparring out here. I think I'm not going to say better, but, you know, I had some really good. I started sparring out here and I had some really good, um, spark partners. So I was like, man, I'm just, I'm going to stay in L.A.

So what's your corner going to look like for this fight? Because you've got a longstanding training relationship with Bobby Benton. You've been out here in L.A. working with Julian Chua and the people at Brickhouse. What's it going to look like on Fight Night? Well, Bobby and Julian. It'll be Bobby and Julie. Julian and Bobby, they, you know, they same thing, working together hand-to-hand, and that's how it's going to be. Does, I mean, you say both, but does there need to be just one voice? Are you comfortable with, you know, a couple?

I mean, I think it's going to be, no, I'm comfortable with a couple. I mean, I think last fight, it was too many. It was like four people talking to me last fight. But I think, like, I'm cool with a couple, just like it is, sparring. You know, like, you know, most of the time right now in sparring, Julian, you know, he's been saying, you know, one thing, he's been saying the first words and then, you know, Bobby will come on the back end and stuff like that. Most time, you know, they agree on what I need to do. So that's how it'll be. So let's talk about the last fight. You defended your title against

Danielito Zaria. You've said many times it was a bad fight, not your best performance. When you look back at that fight, how much of the ugliness of it do you put on Zaria and how much of it do you put on yourself? Um, I think it's, I mean, it's more myself. I mean, because I'm the fighter, I should definitely went out there and stopped him. You know, it's not, um, but yeah, he went out there. He just came to survive. He came to run around and survive and, you know, and then on, on top of me, just not coming off the ring. You know, the thing is, like we, um, well, I don't really watch too many tapes, but, you know, my coach watched tapes on him and, you know, everything, he just,

he was there, you know, but this fight, you know, and so I had sparring partners that, you know, that was, you know, that was there for me, you know, and like, he, he, you know, He just literally ran around the ring. I mean, not all, like, they boxed a little bit, but he literally just ran around the ring. And so that's, I was just, for me, just chased him around. You know, it was something that we just didn't work on. And obviously, I know to cut the ring off, but, you know, just, like I said, having the off night, being in New Orleans, all that is just, this was a bad night. He did fight very differently than I thought he was going to.

His previous fights, he had banged a little bit. He had some power. I had never seen him move as much as he did against you. Right. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. We watched him and they picked him because he was the last minute replacement. He came in like three weeks.

So, you know, three weeks before the fight. So yeah, he just – and his team actually said that. They said we came just to survive. We came just to run. So it was – yeah, it was bad. You know, Devin has said that he called you out well before that fight took place. But if you had knocked Zaria out in the first round or the second round, do you think we'd be here right now? No, no, this is a blessing.

I keep telling people, man, if anybody to thank for this fight is Daniel Likah Zaria. Is anybody to thank for this fight? If I would have knocked Zaria out, Devin would not be fighting me, man. I'll be fighting my mandatory or something like that, not even a big fight. But now because of that happened, you know, I'm fighting, you know, I'm fighting Devin on, you know, probably the biggest fight ending in the year. So, yeah, man, like, I'm just glad that it happened. For me, it is a blessing in disguise. and, you know, even like going into last camp, you know, my friend, my friends is here with me and stuff.

And they were like, man, last camp just so different from this fight. Like this camp, like last camp, it was just like, just kind of going through the motions. And that's kind of how I felt too. And this camp is everybody's excited, you know, and obviously I'm the most excited. So it's just a different feel on just all around. Devin's coming off that win over Lomachenko, a win that a lot of people have questioned in the aftermath. What did you think of it? I'm not gonna at first I thought he

lost at first then I kind of went back and rewatching stuff like then I thought I thought he pulled it off I think it was if it was just a if it was just a devon and just a Lomachenko then maybe Loma could have won but Devin was the champion you know so you have to do

I think you have to do more than that to get it from the champion you know but everywhere I went so I was in New Orleans watching that fight and I went like I went to like a ball something like that and everybody was like man he lost that fight man boxing his rig. He really lost that fight and all that stuff. And that's what people were saying. But it was a close fight. Devin was a champion. So I think he deserved to keep his belts.

Now, if it was just, like I said, if it wasn't no belts involved, then maybe Lama could have pulled it off. But Devin was a champion. I don't think Lama did enough to win it. Of all the fights to say boxing is rig, that's not one of them. When you have a close fight and it goes 15, 13, one way, 15, 13, the other, that is, in my mind, That is not a robbery. That is not stealing a fight, rigging it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the average fan, they don't know.

You know, the average fan. I was, like I said, I was in a bar in the Wallens, and they was like, they was, oh, boxing the rig. I'm not watching boxing them all. And, you know, he really lost this fight. And that's what they were saying. But, you know, people, a lot of fans just don't understand. That's just how it is.

You are a very different fighter than Lomachenko, just like you're a very different fighter than Jojo Diaz. But both those guys hit Devin with left hands. Do you see, not that you're going to fight the same way, but do you see how they were doing it? Do you see weaknesses in Devin's game that leaves him open for that particular shot? I do. I really do.

That's what I'm saying. I think Devin is not a defensive fighter. That's the thing. People saying he's this and he's that. I think people believe in like the hype. And I'm just one of those people that I just don't believe in it. I don't believe in the hype. I honestly think it's not going to be a hard fight.

To be honest, I really don't see it being a hard fight for me, especially once I start landing. So, yeah, I see that he gets hit. I just know one thing. I mean, obviously I'm not going to tell no game plans and stuff like that, but I know one thing that if I land those same shots that Loma did, that Jojo did, that Lanoa did,

Devin's going to be out of them. I just know that, you know? Like, I'm one of the biggest punches at 140, you know, and man, I just, I know that. If I, when I win, I land, it's not going to be pretty. All right, so last question for you, if you win this fight and Eddie Hearn comes to you the next week and says,

look, we can make a fight with Ryan Garcia, or we can make a fight with Subriel Matias. Which one would you choose? Ryan Garcia, a bigger name, obviously. It's a bigger name, yeah. I mean, the most, I told people what I want. I want the biggest fights. I want the biggest fights, the most money.

That's it, you know? So, yeah, either one. But if he said me, Sabrina Matias is more money than Ryan, then we get Sabrina Matias. Like, I'm going to say, all right, Ryan or Sabria, who is the biggest money? Eddie, what are we going to do? What's the biggest money?

If he say Sabria's the biggest? Sabria. If he said Ryan is the biggest, then Ryan. So it's all, for me, I just want, I want the biggest fights. So, you know, it doesn't matter the names. I literally just want the biggest fights. What do you think of, Matthias? It's coming off that win over Ergachev, and he's starting to get kind of that

public reputation as like the boogeyman. Nobody's going to want to fight this guy too big, too strong. I'll fight him. I'll fight him. So he said, he actually fought on one of my undercars, I think, in New Orleans or something like that. And he said he called me out. But I literally, I didn't know who he was. I didn't know who this dude was at all, you know, and then he was calling me out, the same thing, and then he won a belt.

So it's like, all right, now my eyes are open. And so then, you know, last weekend, you know, he won again. So it's like, all right, now he's becoming a bigger name. So yeah, I'll definitely fight him. I told you I want the biggest, the belts and the biggest names, the biggest fights. That's what I want, you know, so that's it. Big one coming up on December 9th. It's going to be a great week, great event, huge, huge night.

Tickets are selling like crazy. I think the pay-per-view is going to do really well as well. Regis, good luck to you, man. I'll see you during Fight Week. Hi, brother, see you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Regis Progray for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast.

And I will see you later in the week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumored me with Robert Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their Between Songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.