The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Day of Reckoning

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

Joining Mannix this week from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is Darren Barker, the former middleweight champion. Mannix and Barker talk about a toss-up type fight between Jarrell Miller and Daniel Dubois, Joseph Parker’s chances against Deontay Wilder, the state of Anthony Joshua and more. Later, Eddie Hearn joins with information on the talks between Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia, a showdown between Dmitry Bivol and Artur Beterbiev inching closer and if Wilder and Joshua are wins away from meeting early next year. Finally, Jarrell Miller talks about his exile from boxing, his still simmering feud with Anthony Joshua, why he believes Dubois is a quitter and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Dotrfkings.com slash basketball terms. This is boxing with Chris Manich. Oh, somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I.'s Chris Mannix. That was my moment.

Now with interviews, analysis, and everything. going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manning. All right. As promised, second episode this week, first episode recording from Riyadh,

Saudi Arabia. Yes, that's right. I have made it to Riyadh for the Day of Reckoning. The Anthony Joshua Autobaline headline card, which will take place Saturday on his own pay per view. It was a very long journey to get here.

Started out in Los Angeles, went to Boston to collect my passport, went from Boston to London, London to Riyadh, got to Riyadh, late Thursday night, local time. So as I'm recording this, late Friday night,

it's safe to say that the jet lag has caught up with me. But I'm happy to be here, happy to be a part of this event, which I think is going to have some really interesting fights. Happy to once again interact with

podcast listeners. Several of you came up to me at the Fight Hotel said you enjoyed listening to the podcast. One listener from all the way in South Africa listed the podcast. So shout out to that listener who said hello at the Fine Hotel. I really enjoy interacting with you guys. If you're a pod listener, you ever see me out, feel free. Say hello anytime. Love to talk boxing with any of you. So speaking of talking boxing, we're into a lot this week. Darren Barker, the former middleweight champion. He joins me. He's going to be on the call for all eight of the fights that are on this DeZone pay-review show. This card begins at 11 a.m. Eastern. So it's an early start, 8 a.m. Pacific. The early fights are good. You got to see Philip Hergevich in action. You are going to

see Frank Sanchez in action. You are going to see Giopataya in action. So you're going to have a lot of really quality fighters in action early on. And what are effectively pre-limb fights. You want to catch all of this. Darren's going to join me on the show. We get into the co-main and the main event, of course. We get into Deonté Wilder against Joseph Parker. Does Joe Parker have a chance against Wilder, who we have not seen much of since that second loss to Tyson Fury? We talk about that. AJ Otto Walleen, we get into that. AJ, what has Darren seen from AJ over these last two fights? And how big a. D.D.D. deal is it. A.J. made another trainer change before this fight. We also talk about the Jarrell Miller

Daniel Dubois fight. I think this is arguably the most competitive fight on paper because you got Jarrell Miller still trying to claw his way back into the boxing picture. And Daniel Dubois, who's trying to keep his place in it after two losses by knockout to Joe Joyce and Alexander Ussick. So stick around. Great conversation with Darren Barker. A little bit later. Eddie Hearn, matchroom boxing. I want to talk to Eddie about AJ. and about everything that's happening on this Saudi card. But there's also some news I want to get into. You have got reports that Ryan Garcia and Devin Haney are in talks for their next fight.

Could we possibly see Haney Garcia sometime in the first quarter of 2024? I ask Eddie about that. I ask him about Ban Rodriguez's future and could Noewe in a way be a part of it? You guys know how I feel about that fight. So I ask Eddie Hearn his thoughts on that subject. then everything, of course, to do with the Day of Reckoning. AJ, A.J. Wilder, all that with Eddie Huron. Finally, Jarrell Miller.

Now, Jarrell and I have talked a lot over the years. He was part of the original group of fighters that were signing to DeZone, really made his name in the heavyweight division fighting on DeZone. Then he had the unfortunate incident in 2019 where he tested positive for multiple band substances, which scuttled his fight against AJ, tested positive. again in 2020. So he's been kind of been out there in the weeds for multiple years now. He's had a few low-level fights in a row that he's won.

And now he gets a real test in Daniel Dubois. So I talked to Jarrell about what he's been doing mostly over the last few years. Has he made substantive changes in his life over the last few years? His thoughts on Joshua clearly still some tension between those two. And just how he beats Daniel Dubois, who is standing in the way of him becoming irrelevant in the heavyweight division once again. So you got Darren Barker, you got Eddie Hearn, and you've got Jarrell Miller. We are loaded up on this week's episode. As always, make sure you subscribe, you rate, and you review. It's the best way to support this podcast week

after week. So let's get into my conversation with Darren Parker. All right, Darren Barker is here, former middleweight champion. He will be alongside me, Todd Grisham, Sergio Amora, in a constellation of stars. I'm honored. In Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for the big event on Saturday. It's headline by Anthony Joshua against Otto Wally. And an eight-fight card in Riyadh, that is one of the bigger all-star cards of all time. I've been asking a lot of people this, Darren, like, how would you define this card?

Like, is it, I wouldn't go as far as it's the greatest card in boxing history. It certainly is one of the biggest, if not the biggest event, that I've seen in boxing history. Yeah, it's mammoth. It's huge. It's that kind of word. It's just a giant of a card, of a bill. You know, I remember some big cards when I was younger, growing up, some real solid cards.

But this, it's just, you have to remember the heavyweight division is the marquee division in boxing. It always will be. Don't get me wrong, it comes in waves. Sometimes there's these real start. You know, Ali, he retires. Larry Holm comes along, probably doesn't get the recognition he deserves. Mike Tyson comes along, then, you know, he retired. Lennox Lewis probably doesn't get the recognition he deserves. But it's always stood the test of time, the heavyweight division.

And this card is stacked with some of the best out there. And it's just a giant of a card. Like, this whole week I've just been taking it all in. I'm just been, you know, I'm proud to be a part of it. Yeah, when you have a card where guys like Philip Herkovich who could fight for heavyweight title, his next fight, were guys like Jayapathaya, who is arguably the top cruiserweight in the world, or in basically the prelims, you know this is a deep and heavy card. So eight fight card, all under his own pay-per-view on Saturday.

I just want to talk about a few at the top of the bill. And to me, the most competitive fight in this card, at least on paper, is Daniel Dubois against Jarell Miller. Daniel Dubois, well-known in the UK, former title challenger, been in some big fights. Jarrell Miller, a known commodity in the U.S., for some good reasons and some bad reasons, trying to claw his way back to the top of the heavyweight division. I'm fascinated by this fight. Jarell Miller, we just came back from the way in, weighed 333 pounds. He's a big dude. I don't like the weight, Darren.

I'd like to see him more close to 315 like he was back in 2018 when he was fighting under his own. So he's not in peak form at the same time. While Daniel Dubois looks great, I don't know where Daniel Dubois is mentally after two knockout losses to Joe Joyce and to Alexander Usik. So how do you see this fight? I mean, there are so many questions that I look forward to, to, to, to, you know, to. finding out the answers on Saturday night. Yeah, first off, look, we can understand now

why Miller threw so many shots back in 2018 and prior that. He was a real force. He really, really was. But like I say, we know why now. Since he's come back, he has not looked as good. I question, can he still be a problem?

I'm not so sure. He certainly hasn't found form any kind of form since he's come back that makes me think that there's well if you're if you're a heavyweight out there there's anything to worry and I think that's why I've seen a relaxed Daniel Dubois I think he's experienced the good the bad the ugly there is this big question mark how is his commitment how is his heart and I haven't seen a fighter in Daniel Dubois that looks concerned to me. I've seen a Daniel Dubois that looks confident and he's eager

to hear that first bell. I've liked the fact that Miller has kind of got the best of Daniel Dubois's personality out of him, which we haven't seen, you know. But in my prediction here, I favour Dubois. I favoured Dubois because I think he's really got a point to prove. He's got to show people that he is the real door or potentially could be. And he has to look good against Miller. I think

there will be a lot of people really cheering Dubois and I think he feels that and I think we'll get a performance of his career from Daniel Dubois. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was to see a late stoppage. Just Miller really struggling to catch his breath and just really struggling with a pace that he can't sustain. I think he'll start fast, Miller try to be busy. I think DeBois will be busy on his feet, but I just think Miller would gas and DeBois will take the most from it. Yeah, D'Reill at his best was like an 80 punch per round. guy. He threw punches like a middleweight. At 333 pounds, I think you're right. I think we'll see some of that in the early rounds, but can he sustain it over the course of a long

fight? On Dubois, though, you mentioned the questions around him. Like, how big are the questions that you have? Like, how did you interpret those two losses? Like, the loss to Joe Joyce, you broke your orbital bone, it's understandable. We've seen guys deal with that. Billy Joe Saunders dealt with that. Others have dealt with that. And look, that's real. That's That's pain, that's potentially long-term injury. That's one thing. But then when you take a knee against Ussick, in a fight that you were competitive in, where you had him down in a borderline, you know, low blow, close to becoming the unified heavyweight champion,

to go down on a knee at that stage of the fight and to not get up. I don't like to use the cue word when it comes to that, but that felt almost like a surrender at that point. It does not look good. It doesn't look good. and it's kind of, I would say the majority of fighters would always want to go out on their shield. But what is wrong with a fighter making a sensible decision? He was obviously feeling some sort of pain,

somewhere for him to not rise from that shot. And sometimes, you know, you've got to think of the bigger picture. Well, let's save myself. Don't let someone else save me. Let me save myself to fight another day. And look, whatever you feel he did or didn't do, he's got this opportunity now to write that wrong. He's in another huge fight.

So, look, the jury is out. I'm not sure what exactly went on. It doesn't look great, but now he's got an opportunity here. He's got a lot of people behind him, especially the UK and some people that don't like the Miller antics. with his past shenanigans, if you like. How do you feel about that as a fighter? I ask Sergio this all the time.

Like, as a fighter, when you see a guy like Miller getting yet another chance after what is three positive tests, when you go back to his kickboxing days, two in back-to-back years, like how do you feel about a guy like that getting another shot? Yeah, awful, awful. You have to look at the worst-case scenario. boxing is dangerous enough as it is the potential worst outcome for any fighter that graces the ring

gets in there they're putting their life on the line and with look you know you're taking performance enhancing drugs you're not just running faster jumping higher lifting more you're punching harder you're a lot more physically strong as we see with miller and I think when you've got past history with it you know you should be gone So I'm a little annoyed, and that's why I'll be honest to say, I'll be cheering on Dandal Duvue.

The co-main event is Deonté Wilder against Joseph Parker. But a long time, Deonté Wilder was a co-main event in any fight. You've got to go back to his early Golden Boy days when he was in a co-main event. Wilder picked up a win about a year ago against Robert Hellenius, but that fight lasted less than one round. So for me, I think there are still questions about Deonti Wilder, because I still don't know exactly what Tyson Fury

took out of him. Those were three hard fights. Two of them that ended in knockouts, one of them ended a devastating knockout at the end of that third fight. And as you well know, like that takes stuff out of fighters. So do you,

would you go into this fight thinking there are still open questions about what Deonté Wilder, at 38? Like, he's 38 years old. Do you have questions about what he might have left? Sure. Absolutely. I really do. You know, I've mentioned this throughout the week. The first thing you lose as a fighter as you start aging and get them to those twilight years in your career is your punch resistance. But the last thing you lose, as we see with George Foreman and many others, is your punch. And he punches so hard. He has the ability to close the show in a split second. But I mean, if I talk about Parker now, he's, to me somebody who is peaking at the correct time.

Like we were talking about it earlier, you know, he's only 31 years old. A wealth of experience behind him now. At the top level, a former world champion, looks fantastic last time out against, yes, lower opposition, but you can only beat who's in front of you. But somehow it seems as if his hands are faster. You see him at the weighing.

He looks in unbelievable condition. And out of the two semi-finals, if we're going to call them that, A.J. Wallin and Wilder Parker, this is the potential hiccup. This is the potential banana skin that could scuffer the chances of A.J. Wilder. Because, look, I've been involved in boxing a long time, and through boxing myself, I can see a chink in an armour. I can see when a fighter is hiding behind words. They're saying things, but they don't really mean it. Parker's not doing that. Parker is saying exactly what he believes.

He believes he's in his prime, and he believes now is the correct time, not only to be facing Wilder, but for him to be facing Wilder, because he's, like I say, he's peeking at the correct time. What do you think the blueprint is for him in a fight like this?

Because Tyson Fury created one in his fights with Wilder. You pressure him. You take the fight to him. You don't give him opportunities to set himself and release that right hand. we saw it the way in Andy Lee saying we're going for the knockout, Joe Parker saying we're going for the knockout. I'm not so sure I believe that, Dad.

I'm not so sure we're going to see Joe go out there because he doesn't really have the size for it that Tyson has. Exactly. You took the words of my mouth there. You can't fight the same as Tyson Fury because he's not as big as Tyson Fury and just doesn't have that style. That's mind games for me with Andy Lee. It's suicide, if you like.

I hate to use that in boxing terms, but it's not a good tactic at all to be having a slug fest with one of the hardest punches in the division in a long, long time. The blueprint for me, for Joseph Parker, would be to pick your moments, don't get greedy, and what I mean by that is, again, don't trade, keep the output quite low with singles and double shots,

but then go again. Plenty of faints, faint, faint, faint, faint, with your hands, with your feet, try and get Wilder to load up. And, yeah, fire back with quick counters. I think we've seen that Parker, not the most destructive one-punch, KO artists in the division, but packs a punch. Hard enough for me to really trouble Wilder. But he doesn't have to be thinking about that early on.

I think look for that potentially later, but just box smart. Do you think the Joyce fight took a lot? anything out of him. I mean, Wilder fights very differently than Joyce. I thought Parker's biggest problem with Joyce was Joyce is suffocating. Like Parker couldn't get away from him at times. It's a different

fighter, but he did get knocked out. It was a pretty bad knockout at the time. He's won, what, three relatively low-level fights in a row since then? Be his fourth fight this year, which is incredible. He's fighting four times in a year. But do you think that fight took anything out of him? Yeah, look, I don't think there's

loads of miles on the clock. for Joe Parker, but what Miles are on the clock came from that fight. Yeah. It was a bloody battle, one that, yeah, didn't end well at all for Parker. But again, I feel he would have learned from that fight. He can take some sort of confidence from that fight, showing heart, courage, desire and an unquestioned will to win. And you have to remember, look, there's this emphasis that may,

Weaver and Joe Kowazagi, the likes of those guys that have this, you know, the O, the 46 and O, the 50 and O, if you like, and people are scared to lose in boxing, which is, you know, it's ridiculous, really, it's sport, you know. The greatest of all time might have 19 losses, Sugar Ray Robinson. Exactly. And he, by the way, he is the greatest of all time, no question. Exactly. And he suffered the feats, Parker, but big deal.

Big deal is what you take from a defeat and what you learn from the defeat. And I just like I say, the mannerisms, the aura, the personality, the words I'm hearing, look, I still favor Wilder in this fight. But like I say, if there is to be an upset, and it would be an upset, it could come from Parker. All right, so let's talk about the main event.

Anthony Joshua against Adewaulin. I want to ask you about AJ and what you've seen from him in 2023. This will be his third fight of the year. He wanted to rebuild this way. He wanted to be active. He wanted to get back to being the guy he was in previous years. To my eyes, it's been a mixed bag. The Jermaine Franklin fight was okay.

The Robert Hellenius fight up until the knockout was okay. When you look at what you've seen from AJ over his last two fights, where do you think he is heading into this one? In the right direction. And I'll say that because of the Hellenius' first. finish. He needs to build from that instantly against Walling. And he needs to get on the front foot. It needs to be bullish. It needs to be aggressive, physically imposing himself on Walling. I must say the Franklin fight, I think, isn't as bad now. I think Franklin is a nightmare for a lot of heavyweights out there. I think he's very quick, well scored and can cause many heavyweights a real headache. But again, fast forwarding to the Hellenius finish, that is what we want to see. I wasn't happy or I was a little concerned, I must say, with the way he was pulling the shots and not really committing to the shots,

which is kind of crazy when you think of the power that he generates with both hands, not just wilder with the right hand, but he really punches with both. Use those. Have faith in your power. And it's just that, not to get too technical here, but when you fully commit to a shot, you do leave yourself somewhat vulnerable. When you commit to a right hand, you rotate with the hips, and you are falling over the front foot slightly.

And that does leave you vulnerable. And he's a little concerned about missing the target and getting caught with a counter. But I'm hoping that he takes real belief from that finish with Heleneas. He says, do you know what? That's the finish. I needed to kick on.

Ben Davison, work in the corner of AJ. This will be his fourth trainer in the last five fights. If you go back to the second fight with the first fight, rather, with Alexander Usick. You're a guy that likes one voice, Sergio Amora, a guy that likes one voice. Anthony's going to have a lot of voices in his year over the last couple of years. We both would agree Ben Davidson is a top boxing mind. I love what he's done. with Lee Wood. I love what he's still doing

with guys like Devin Haney, still contributing to his game plans and such. But I would imagine there's got to be a lot of information in the mind of Anthony Joshua coming into this fight. I'm not necessarily sure that's a good thing. Yeah. Again, took the words out my mouth. It's an

information overload, perhaps. Just too much. Too much info. But it has worked for some fighters. It really has. You know, that they may see it as another string to their bow. There may be something that they've missed out that this new coach has found. Something that Ben Davison is very keen on is video analysis.

They have a guy in camp called Lee Wiley and they study opponents and they come up with so far pretty successful game plans. You know, they break it down to the, you know, the milliseconds, you know, fractions, millimeters and that could be something and I think AJ likes to take on that kind of information and it could be the missing piece to the jigs or who knows we'll find out you're right me and Sergio we like that stability that one coach that trust that one coach can give you but AJ is different from the two of us and I feel he may benefit from working with Ben who look, orchestrated as part of the team, you know, the win against Wallin, et cetera.

And look, there's maybe something in it. There may be a masterstroke. We don't know. We'll find out. You know, it's funny, Otto has been asked about how Ben Davison was in Tyson Fury's corner for the time that he fought Otto. And Otto's had a pretty good line where he said, yeah, how did that go? He got fired right after by Tyson Fury.

So he's had some good lines. And look, I think Otto's a live dog in this one. I really do. Like, you use the word with a phrase banana skin. Great phrase, by the way. And I think Otto fits that bill. And this fight fits that bill because Otto, look, I don't want to over-hipe the fight with Fury. He lost, right?

And I think it looked better for him than it was because of the cut fear he had and all the blood that Fury was gushing. And Otto spent, like, the entire fight trying to, like, scratch that cut off his face. It was just a weird fight. But, you know, he. He's a skilled guy. He's got some size to him. He's a Southpaw, which we know AJ has had some problems with in the past. He's been active, third fight this year for him.

He's coming into this fight with confidence because I thought his last fight against Gassiev was arguably the best win of his career. And speaking of corners, he's got a guy, a long-term trainer named Joey Gammash. And people that listen to this show probably know who Joey Gammash is because it's a boxing show. But I think Joey Gammash is one of the best strategists in all. all of boxing. He was one of the architects of Tea Fima Lopez's win over Vasily Lomachenko. He

has been in the corner of a number of top fighters. He's going to have a game plan, Darren. He's going to have a whether Otto can execute it or not, we'll see. But he's going to know, you mentioned how Lee Wiley and Ben Davis and study film, so doesn't Joey. And they're going to have a game plan that

they believe that if Otto executes he can win. Yeah, he's going to be a massive component if Wallin is to be successful and Wallin like you say is a very good fighter and he's able and smart enough to adapt which makes him a hard man to beat we see against Tyson Fury a very big man he was able to push Tyson Fury back through large parts of that contest regardless of the cut he still imposed his size into that contest and then we see against Gassier he's nimble he can move good

footwork. Nice jab. Good variation with the shot and I'm very intrigued to see the battle for centre ring as soon as that first bell sounds. Who's going to hold the centre of ring? Will Wallin allow AJ to be the boss physically or will he say no I'm not I know you're mentally fragile I'm going to test you I'm going to put you in positions and places in that ring you don't want to be I want to shock you. And that could potentially be a worry early on if you're an AJ fan if Wallin is able to impose his physical presence into the fight because I feel AJ has to do that. AJ has to be the monster in there. AJ has to be the beast. I feel out of all of the fights on the card, this is the fight where mind games during the fight could play a massive part.

Darren Barker going to be a busy night for you tomorrow all eight fights on that card. This is not work for me, Chris. It's fun. Believe me, it's not. Yeah, it's fun. I'll be disappointed if I wasn't called in all the fights. One thing you have to remember, it's a mixed crew with the U.S. guys and the British guys.

The only thing you have to remember is when my scorecard goes up there, just agree with it. It's always right. Ask the internet. It's always right. Appreciate it, Darren. Always a pleasure. And when we come back, my conversation, with Eddie Hearn.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Eddie Hearn is the co-promoter of The Day of Reckoning. He's here with Anthony

Joshua, who will attempt to pick up a third straight win when he takes on Alawan. You can watch the entire eight fight card on DeZone pay-per-view. Eddie, kind enough to join me over Zoom. We were going to do this in person, Eddie, but I have been hotel hopping today. Hilton with the DeZone crew, Crown Plaza, talking to your old friend Jarrell Miller for a while. So there's a lot going on here in Riyadh today, but I appreciate you doing this over the Zoom. What does this event kind of feel like?

Now that you've been here for a few days, you were part of the press conference, you were part of the initial press conference. Like, this is a unique card where you have so many big names attached to it. What does this event feel like? It feels almost like a big sort of boxing convention. Should I mean?

Like where the whole boxing world comes together. But this time, they're going to be all fighting. You know, like, you know, when you go to like a WBC convention or something like that, and you've got every promoter, you've got lots of fighters, you've got all these teams, but now they've kind of come together on one huge night. And it's really unique, you know, I mean, you just wouldn't get this card. You wouldn't get this depth.

You wouldn't get the fights all on one night without, you know, his vision of his ex-execency and, you know, the vision of boxing in Saudi. it's really unique, you know, across the production, across the promos, across the filming, across the vision. So, yeah, I'm excited. And for us, you know, although we are the co-promoter, Saudi Arabia are obviously handling a lot of the infrastructure of the show. So we kind of feel like me and AJ that we're kind of rocking up, not as the away fighter, but to come to do a job. Normally all the pressures on us and AJ's runs the show and, you know, we're like just coming out here. and it feels fresh.

It feels really good and we're excited and he's in a great place as well. I don't want to ask you about AJ, but first I want to look back on last weekend where your fighter, Bam Rodriguez, had a spectacular performance against Sonny Edwards. Afterwards, Bam called for a fight against Juan Francisco Estrada.

I've seen some quotes from Estrada where he said, I'm down for it, but let me take one fight in between. As you start to map out Bam's 2024, in your mind, what could it look like? Yeah, look, the Estrada fight, as a fascinating fight. Estrada is arguably a pound-for-pound guy, you know, with his resume and his victories.

And it's a cross-roads fight. You know, he's at the back end of his career. Bam, I still can't believe Bam's 23. You know, when you talk about the ability of this kid, like what he's done already and what he could go on to do, just a special, special pound-for-pound great already. So for me, it's the fight to make for the division. You know, you've got obviously the Mexican fans,

you've got the fans of Bam Rodriguez and, you know, they really, you know, doubled and trebled in numbers through that fight with Sunny Edwards. It was a fight that's been so well received from boxing, you know, of the best feed of best. And it just shows you what can happen when we get that. And for me, the next fight, you know, Bam, when he was up at 115, said, I want to go back down to 112. You know, really, I'm a light fly away. I'm a fly away. And now he's gone back to 112 for those two fights. I think he's just realized.

I think it was a tough task for him to make weight in that sunny Edwards fight. And I think he's just realized, no, I need to be up at 115, which is good news for boxing, because we want to see him go through the weights. You know, I want to see him go next after 115, go to 1-1-8, try and become a three-division world champion at Bantamweight. You know, and you see him getting stronger and bigger. And I think initially, I didn't know if he was capable of doing that. Now I do.

I really think you can see him become a three, maybe even a four. I mean, Robert Garcia talked about five, six weight world champion. So the sky's the limit for this young man. So, Eddie, it was about 16 years ago when Larry Merchant first proposed the idea of Mani Pacquiao against Oscar Delahoy. I would like to have my merchant moment by pushing for Bam Rodriguez against the monster, noe in a way, who is right now 10 pounds heavier than Bam. But as you pointed out, BAM's a growing guy.

You know, 115 could lead to 118. And we could be talking by the end of next year, but only four pounds being separating these two fighters. What do you think of that fight? Is it a fight that you think is, or is and will be on BAM's radar? I mean, I feel like at the moment, obviously BAM is heavily handicapped in that fight

because it's one thing moving up the divisions to fight a world champion in those weights. classes, it's another thing doing it to fight arguably the pound for pound number one. So the disadvantages that Ban will have going up to Super Bantam weight, we don't mind against a good world champion, but against a pound for pound number one, it's a very, very risky fight. We live in a world of kind of fantasy boxing where we like to pull matchups out of the sky. That is genuinely a matchup that given two years or something like that, I can.

see happening. The only other problem is I think Inouye will need to do the same to chase greatness. So you might see Naya Inouye go up to feather and junior lightweight. Lightweight, I mean, I'll tell. I'm not, this is the way these guys are going to get beat. You know, when you look at what Lomachenko did, obviously started at featherweight, went to super feather, went to lightweight. It's not really his weight class. You know, really he's still 130 pounder, in my opinion. But they need to do that to chase greatness. So the only way I see a new way getting big, I really believe Ahmad Leahv can give him a great fire,

but probably is to go up to feather and 130. And that might be the same for Jesse. So if Anouet chooses to stay around at that weight class, then given two years, why not, you know, Jesse Bam Rodriguez? You imagine Jesse Bam Rodriguez, who would win world titles at Bantam again, would go into the Nyur-A-Nu-A-fight as a three-division unified world champion, trying to become a four-division world champion against the pound-for-pound, number one. I mean, that's a monstrous fight.

So for now, slight fantasy, but we like to make fantasies come true. Nice. You're like Disney World. I think that, you know, this time next year, we're going to be having an interesting conversation about that. Because I think this time next year, BAM will be a three-division world champion and in a way might still be hovering in that 122-126 range. And then that's a monster event. Devin Haney, two weeks removed now, three weeks removed now from his win over Regis Progrey. On social media, Devin and Ryan Garcia are both professing a desire to make that fight next. You're kind of at the intersection of that.

How realistic is that in your mind for the next fight for both Ryan and Devin? You know what? It's really realistic. I mean, you know, Ryan reached out to me just to tell me, I just want to, I want you to know, I want this fight. And I really believe him. You know, when he called out the tank fight, I wasn't sure whether I believed, because I don't know him personally. I wasn't sure where I believed that he actually wanted that fight. And I think he did everything he could to get that fight over the line. And I really believe that he would do the same in the Devin Haney fight. Since that. conversation. I've spoken to Oscar de la Jolla. I've spoken to Eric Gomez. Everybody's up for that fight. Devin touches down in Saudi Arabia today. We're going to talk and we're going to present an offer after our conversations with the zone to Devin Haney and Oscar will present an offer to Ryan Garcia. I think there's a great chance to see that fight. April, May, you know, it's a brilliant fight. It's a brilliant fight for both. It really is.

And another mega fight for boxing, I think, is really possible. Do you think you were on the show last week, and what you said was really interesting about how fighters need to understand what the numbers are, and you're transparent about what the numbers are. Do you think when the numbers are presented to both Devin and Ryan that it's going to be enough for them, because they're both going to want a lot of guaranteed money to make that fight? Do you know what? You have to back yourself, all right?

You have to make sure that you have the security in the fight, the right number. But if you believe the fight's as big as it is and you back yourself, that's when you hit the jackpot. And that's what Ryan Garcia did against Tank Davis. Ryan Garcia could have taken a bigger guarantee, right, and probably earned half of what he did in the Tank Davis fight. He backed himself on the numbers.

He backed himself on the gate, and he made a fortune in that fight. So right here, we've got to make sure we come up with the right guarantee, but both Ryan and Devin have got to buy into the potential size of that fight because that's where they're going to make, you know, their eight figures of beyond. You know, and the problem is when you have negotiations. But when I say about fighters need to understand the numbers, Devin does, Bill does.

You said that. Ryan now has been a part of that process. He understands the. numbers. Obviously, Oscar does and Eric does. So we're not kind of dealing with deluded individuals who have met someone down top golf who go, you should be making 50 million for this fight. I'm selling you now, you know, and then you're having a conversation with someone. Yeah, good. So we're dealing with bright people. And I really feel confident there's a good chance of this fight happening. You've got a busy night on Saturday. It begins with Dimitri Bevel

in his fight against Lyndon Arthur, your fighter and Beavle. Talking to Beavl's people this week, they're overwhelmingly optimistic that if they get through this fight and if Archer-Berbev wins his fight against Callum Smith, that we're going to see Beav against Better Beav in the first half of next year. I know you're backing Callum to win that fight, but regardless, the winner of that fight against Bevo. Is that realistic for Saudi Arabia next year? 100%. You know, I mean, that's when we did our deal with Dimitri Bivow and Saudi Arabia. You know, His Excellency had the vision. He wants that fight. He wants the undisputed fight. And we've agreed to it, in essence, you know, I can't speak on behalf of Betta Beav.

And I truly believe Callum Smith will win that fight by knockout on January the 13th. And I believe it will be Callum Smith against Betterbeef. But we'll wait and see what happens. but that is 100% the vision for that fight. And, you know, Dmitri Bivel's all in. He's been out of the ring for over a year. I expect a stern effort from Lyndon Arthur. I think he'll be overmatched against a pound-for-pound great fighter. And then that's it, you know, see what happens on January 13th.

Obviously, his excellency has to do a deal with Better Beav and top rank. But from our side, we're committed to make that fight happen. So there's been a lot of attention paid to Anthony Joshua and his headspace going into this fight. Is he too tense? Is he too, you know, whatever? Like, is he not in the right headspace coming in? You've been around him all the time these last few days. How do you respond to that?

Do you believe Anthony Joshua is in the right? You know what the mad thing is, right? This is the mad thing. So, Deontay Wilder has given interviews where he said he's gone on some ayahuasca retreat or whatever. it is, right? Doing these hallucogenic, I don't know, drugs. I mean, I don't know what's got, right? And he's really, like, he's opened, he's my, and you're, not you, but people are

questioning the, the mental state of Anthony Joshua just because he done an interview and he didn't like the guy who interviewed him because he's been slating him for two years and was a bit short. It's absolutely mental. you know, I mean, it couldn't be more calm. It couldn't be in a better place. This camp has been different. Sparring, just not seeing this from AJ for the last couple of fights.

I think you're going to get a surprise on Saturday night. I really do. I think you're going to see something quite different from him in terms of what you've seen in the last few fights. I think he's going to knock Otto Wilding out. I really believe he does. and if he does, it's a hell of a statement. Because Wilden's a good fighter.

You know, he's capable. He's a South War. He's confident. But if what I'm seeing is right and what I'm hearing is right, AJ's ready to rip him to pieces on Saturday night, and I can't wait. I think one of the things that Deonté also seems to have lost along the way is his memory that there was an offer to fight AJ in 2019, about $100 million offer.

on the table for him to take that fight. He hasn't been talking too much about that. But look, that's all in the past. And the last question I have for you is, look, we've seen all the reporting multiple outlets now. This deal's done. March. AJ wins, Wilder wins.

It's a done deal. When, you know, when that final bell rings, if AJ is the winner and Wilder is the winner, are we going to be talking about AJ Wilder in March? I mean, firstly, it's not done yet. And I've seen reports from Copinger and Dan Raphael. and the fight is not done. Now, we're on the ground in Saudi Arabia.

A lot can happen. It's now Friday. A lot can happen out here quickly. Firstly, for that fight to happen in March, AJ has to win tomorrow night. Deonté Wilder has to win, which is not, you know, not an absolute given.

And both fighters need to come through without any injuries. You know, when you're planning for a fight that could be what 13 weeks away 12 weeks away if you injure a knuckle the fight ain't happen

do you what I mean and that's really I think in the heavyweight division it's hard to come through a competitive fight without a nickel without a knockdown without an injury so we'll see there is an opportunity to make this fight in March a lot has got to happen for that to happen.

We're all committed to do it. But first things first, we'll see what happens tomorrow night. A lot of big things tomorrow night. Hopefully bigger things ahead as well. Eddie, as always, man, I appreciate it. No worries, mate. I'll speak to you soon. When we come back, heavyweight contender, Jarrell Miller. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

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Once again, here with Jarrell Miller. It feels like it's been a lifetime. It's been more than a lifetime. It's been more than a lifetime. I felt like ages, brother. Four years since we last saw you on DeZone. Now here you are back again, DeZone pay-per-view. Daniel Dubois, Day of Reckoning here in Saudi Arabia,

looking to get back on track, right? Back to kind of where you thought you were going to be. Yeah, yeah, definitely, man. We're going to put this guy in the coffin, man. You know, when the fight first got announced, you know, we look at the gambling odds, and it was like 7 to 1, and then after the first press conference, it was like 4 to 1. And then after last night's other press conference is like two to one.

So after the weighing, you know, they might see my weight, it might go back to four to one. But listen, man, I tell people all the time, I say, listen, man, I'm a different breed, man. I'm not, I don't stress my weight. And it's coming down the way I like it. I'm looking a lot of fitter. I'm looking a lot leaner.

My muscles is feeling full. I feel good, so I'm a park his ass, man. So last time we talked, you did say you needed a few fights. to get to that kind of championship level shape. I mean, I assume this was just an opportunity that you couldn't pass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We was getting ready for manual chart. You know, we was about 3-18,

and then the fight got canceled. I had to sort of traveling and stuff, and I went back up like 3.30. Then we got this fight about five weeks ago, and I said, man, let's hit right back in the gym again. So I'm thinking like anywhere between 320 and 330s is where I'm comfortable at. Like, I know, I've been sparring 12, 15 rounds,

so I'm more than in shape for this. guy, like I feel amazing, so what number's not going to be a problem. You were kind of peaking back in 2019 before the AJ fight. I mean, how close do you feel to being that guy again? Yeah, by the next fight, for sure, by the next fight, I'll be

that guy, you know? I was touching guys with baby punches and knocking them, like hurting them like crazy, you know what I mean? And I realized for my last fight, even with Lucas Brown, I was just so anxious to want to throw punches that I wasn't really sitting on my shots. You know, I got him out of there. It wasn't like one-thump punches. It was like,

accumulation of shots. You know, we're going back to the basics. Me and my coach, so we went back to this the game plan. Good jabs, good body shot, good hard, right-hands, left-foot. So I'm going to get him out of there. I'm going to hit him with one good shot. He's going to be on Stinky Lake Street. Trust me.

You feel like you're a different guy then? Because the guy I remember your volume punching to find you. Yeah, yeah. You threw more punches than most heavyweights out there. Is that guy still out there? Oh, man, the only heavy way that threw more punches than me were Adam Kowanaki. You know what I'm not? I'm not the only heavyweight that could keep throwing my punch output.

Yeah, I still throw a lot of punches. You know what I mean? I just feel like in this fight, I want to kind of, you know, place my shots a little differently because, you know, Du Bois is a heavy puncher, so we don't want to get caught throwing lazy punches or a whole bunch of punches we don't need to. You know, if I throw 40 punches around, which is half of what I usually throw, that's still more than what he throws. So the main thing is setting up good shots, putting a pliant of pressure, and whooping his ass.

How much, what have these last four years kind of been like for you? I mean, look, to be fair, you brought a lot of it on yourself in the beginning with kind of what happened there before the AJ. fight, but how much have you changed since then? Like, what's different about you since then? You know, a few people with my team is not there no more, you know, going to the proper doctors and, you know, reading up about the things that we put in our body, you know, being transparent with everything with VADA, you know, because a lot of people don't know.

It's a lot of things that fighters are not aware of. Like, that's my first time testing with VADA. And, you know, you're kind of walking into this super magnifying glass of a drug test that anything comes up on a microscope, you know what I mean? like I ain't know what a nanogram is and you know I was failing for 0.3 of a nanogram and there's a million nanograms in one gram so do the math you know I'm trying to say it's nothing but I mean it is what it is you know if you got to understand the rules understanding the game you're playing and if you don't have the financial backing to help

you with these tests and the doctor protocols you know a lot of fighters are going to be red flag and that's what happened and unfortunately I had to learn the hallway that nobody was able to school me or help me and God me along the way it happens so now you know we just We dot our T, we dot our eyes, we cross our T's, we do our homework, you know, we make sure we read the label and everything, you know, and we just keep moving. That opening press conference to announce this card, incredibly boring, but I kept saying that people I was watching with, like, wait until Jarrell starts talking, wait until Jarrell starts talking, and sure enough, you know, you just burst out of there.

Yeah. What did it feel like for you to kind of be back on that stage kind of once again? I mean, it feels amazing, you know, I mean, it feels great because, you know, when you're super talented guy you know and you're not you're not doing what you love and enjoy if like you're wasting your time you're wasting your life you know i mean and i says you know there's an opportunity on one of the biggest cars that we had in decades and just be myself you know this is nothing i'm not showbole and i'm not doing nothing more than what i normally do this is how i've always have been and the thing about is and i was praying for this back in like i would say i did the exhibition in june and um

i said if this fight don't go through a man your chart and for the heavyweight title i said man i need to get to sordi and i just prayed on. I'm like, God, get me out there, man. I know they're going to love me out there. I know I can show up. And so said, so done, inshallah, was like, boom. All of a sudden, I'm getting a phone call, you know, listen, man, you want to come over here and knock somebody out? I was like, who? You know, it was Chazora. I'm like, hell yes. I'm hitting Chazora up in Dian, and he's like, shit. So I know he wasn't going to fight. I'm like, damn, who was it going to be? And then they said at Dubois turned out a judge of Parker fight. So I was like, shit, I wonder why he turned it down for He's like, he don't want somebody that moves so much.

I said, well, shit, I'll fight him. And he said he'll take it. I was like, oh, that's the dumbest move he can ever do because he can't keep up with me. So I was like, let's get it on. And you can still see with you and AJ, the spiciness is still there. All that tension that we saw in 2019 and the month before that fight was scheduled. It feels like it's all still right there.

Yeah, still right there. You know what I mean? But Aja got a shit ton of losses now, you know what I mean? And his mindset is totally different, you know. You know, he's talking about he's on a different level. Man, this is boxing, bro. Yeah, your bank count might be heavy, but I'm ranked number four and five, and you rank like three, three or some shit.

Sometimes I don't think he's ranked in the WBA right now. So my thing is this. He's talking all that shit, bro. He's trying to make an excuse. You know, when guys are afraid to lose or somebody that's in front of their face like I am, he just want to make an excuse up and bring him old shit. Nick, it is what it is, bro. This is a boxing game.

I think going to put up or shut up. You know, if you feel like you're not ready to compete with the big boys, then retire. You must have thought of it a million times, but the Ruiz fight, would you have done the same thing? Oh, man, I've done the same thing, man. He took an opportunity, you know, he made millions, whooped his ass, came back, and made more millions, you know what I mean? So me and Eddie season yesterday, it was nothing but love.

I got no respect for the guy. We've always been friends, and, oh, man, I'm happy to see him back as well, too. You know what I'm? So, no, you can't knock anybody down, bro. It was his time. God gave him his time. That was his opportunity. He took it with both hands, and he took advantage of it, you know what I mean?

I was actually just talking to some to zone people. You and Andy Ruiz is kind of an interesting fight. Yeah, I think it would be. But, you know what I mean? Like, for me, they, me and him and fight each other. Like, I feel like there's any guys that really get along, you got to put a shit ton of money up

because, you know, fighting game is about killing each other, you know what I mean? And there's like, maybe like two or three guys, like I really don't want to fight Andy Ruiz, Joseph Parker, and, you know,

Al-Kavanaaki. Those are like, it was like, I consider those guys like brothers, you know what I mean? So it'd be hard for me to fight. There's so many other guys to fight, you know what I'm trying to say?

And not like any one of those guys have belts right now. So for me, it wouldn't, it wouldn't motivate me to go fight now. You know what I'm trying to say? This is a shit ton of money. So, yeah, I think a lot of fights are interested. You know what I mean?

So, I mean, money talk, but, you know, certain fights have to wake me up. To get the best out of me, you got to put somebody from me that I don't like. You know, somebody that wakes me up. So you get the press conferences. You get the wing, and you get the shenanigans that I do. If not, it's going to be like, oh, man, I'm fighting my boy, man. I'm not saying shit, man. Oh, if you take AJ and Wilder off the table, who don't you like at this point?

Du Boer. Well, fortunately, you get him then. Yeah, I got him. I don't know. I like Dylan White, but I definitely I would fight Dylan White. You know, I like Chazoro, but I'd fight Chazora. I think because if you're British,

I think anybody British get his work. It did seem like you and Eddie things thought a little bit, based on the press conference yesterday. Maybe you're not on the same page as you used to be when, you know, you're fighting on his own. But the animosity, seems to have cooled a little bit.

That was my reading. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. You know, we talking giggling and we cracking jokes behind stage, and I felt like it's good, you know what I mean? And they dates of business, you know what I mean? And I'm a fun-loving guy. You know, we said what we had to say, and I brushed it off, and then on to the next.

And I got bigger Frist or Frist or Frot. You know what I mean? Like I said, right now, at the point where I'm at my life, it's best you make more friends than enemies outside the ring. You know what I'm trying to say? Like I said, you never know. I know the zone. They need somebody that can put a microphone in their hands.

and sell events because, you know, AJ get one more loss. The zone, yeah, I'm sorry, man, y'all done. You need another heavy weight like me. So we're going to see, you know, money-talk bullshit, well. This Dubois fight, he's been beat twice pretty bad, where he's kind of given up in both fights. How do you use that against him? Do you think you can be the kind of... 100%.

You're talking about a guy myself who's throwing 80 plunges around, you know, has a chin of granite, mean, comes forward, mean mugs, god, bullies, has some dirty tactics. And you're talking about a guy who gets knocked out by a jab. You're talking about a guy that, you know, got beat up with a jab and kind of quit in his elbow. And, you know, he got dropped by Lorraine with a left hook three times. You're talking about a guy that's not mentally all there. You know what I mean? And he's never been in the room with somebody like me.

You know what I mean? So that's the great thing about when about Big Baby myself is that there's no spawn partners that you can actually get to mimic me. You know, I've heard it a million times. And, you know, he's sprung with a guy, I think, um, I can't remember his damn name, a 340-pound heavyweight from England. And I was watching some of his fights. He fights nothing like me. He's just a big, big fat guy.

You know what I mean? And I was like, he's four, two, and one, or four-one and two. And I'm just like, that's what they're getting in a spar? I'm like, oh, my God, I'm really going to fuck him up. You know what I mean? So, you know, I'm just a guy that's built different, you know. I'm athletic as shit, especially when the occasion makes me wake up. I'm going to be moving on them, you know.

We're going to stick him with some good shots. run them over. And this is the fight that brings you back. If you win this fight. Not if, brother, when you call me, brother, you know, when you call me Chris, you say, listen, man, baby, after you win, we back. After you win, this is the fight that brings you back. Yeah, it says, bring us back, because, you know, you want more interviews, we back, we back, you know what's happened with AJ and Wob, they both win that fight. It's almost locked in for March, probably a two-fight deal. Like, what's your path to that? I don't think that fight is locked. It's not 100% locked in. I think it's probably, at least one. It's a, yeah. It's a,

two-fight deal. Yes, I believe that thing. This is one in the next one. It's a two-fight deal. But their fight with them together is not locked in. You think? No, I know. Because I just know. Money talks, man. Money talks. But that fight ain't locked in, bro. It ain't locked in yet. I think they've

both signed it? No, he's on shit yet. I'm pretty sure they're both signed it. No, no, no, no. My source is Trump yours. I'm saying. Oh, no, no. I'm not saying. Eddie told you. Oh, shit. No, no. Eddie said that shit ain't signed yet.

No, I think it's, well, if it's not, look, I think it's, they're both going to fight. Like, there's too much money in it. I don't know what the dollar's number is, but there's too much money in it. Man, I hear that. I hear that. I hear that. But I hope one of them lose and I get it, so fuck them. Jarrell, good to see you again, man.

Glad to have you back fight. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Darren Barker, Jarrell Miller, and Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast and I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. I go sleep.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.