The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The GWOAT is back in action

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Chris is joined by boxing writer and broadcaster, Corey Erdman. The guys react to Leigh Wood having the fight of his life against Mauricio Lara, Alexis Roacha having another stoppage win, and what we can expect from Claressa Shields this weekend. Later, the GWOA herself, Claressa Shields joins Chris to talk about her upcoming fight, and if she feels that she gets enough credit in the sport. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Mannix. This is Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. We have a tremendous show. for you today. Corey Erdman, writer, boxing scene.com, broadcaster DeZone, ESPN, amongst other places. He's going to join me to talk about all the news in boxing this week. And Cloressa Shields, the quote herself, number one pound for pound women's fighter. She is back in action this weekend.

June 3rd, she takes on Marcella Cornejo in Detroit. That's a fight you could watch on DeZone. But first, Clarissa will be here. me about that fight and given her unvarnished opinion on Hannah Gabriel's, her former opponent, who tested positive for a banned substance being out of that fight. So you don't want to miss that interview with Cloresa Shields. But first, as promised, Corey Erdman, boxing scene.com, DeZone broadcaster. He's actually going to be on the call this weekend calling the fight, Clarissa Shields, Marcela Cornejo in Detroit for DeZone. Corey, before we kind of look ahead to some of the

news of the week. I want to give a actual round of applause. like actual applause to Lee Wood over in the UK. Like, Lee Wood beat Marisio O'Lara on Saturday by decision. I didn't pick that outcome to happen. Certainly three, four months after Lee Wood was knocked out by Maricio Lara, I didn't think he would win a decision against him. I doubly didn't think he would win a decision. after Maricio O'Laura came in way overweight and was close to a full weight class heavier than him going into that fight.

I actually thought it was kind of crazy that Lee Wood and Ben Davison went through with this fight. The more prudent thing to do would have been to say, you know what, we're not fighting. Lara, he can't make weight. He's done. That featherweight title that was on the line, that's vacant. How about we do me and Josh Warrington for that featherweight title in a couple of months? bigger fight, more money. Lee Wood says, nope, not going to happen.

I'm fighting this guy. I don't care how much he weighs. I don't care what the circumstances are. I'm getting in the ring and I'm fighting Mauricio Lara. And Lee Wood fought the fight of his life. Outboxed Lara, made him look amateurish at times during that fight and came away with the decision and got back his 126 pound title. So let's start right there.

That was the most impressive performance of the weekend. There are some good ones. You saw Conlin get knocked up by. Lopez, Alexis Rocha, picked up another stoppage win. But Lee Wood, taking on a guy that has become a boogeyman in the 126-pound division and just boxing circles around and picking up the only knockdown of the fight in the second round, I thought that was incredibly impressive by Lee Wood. Yeah, it was.

And I try not to kind of get into psychological analysis of fighters leading up to fights and what I'm evaluating fights too much because I don't. genuinely know what's going on in their heads but in the case of lee wood i do think you have to point something like that out because i think that the table sort of turned in terms of the the mental standpoint of those two fighters heading into the ring when laura comes in overweight suddenly i think lee wood thinks oh i am more ready for this fight and and the the dynamic beforehand was again as you stated laura as this boogeyman as a guy who might look a little bit unorthodox but is eventually going to you down and get you. There's, there's an intimidation factor that Laura really does carry into the

ring and he builds that up with the way that he conducts himself. And I think that would in that moment decided that that was gone, that maybe the mirage was gone. And were there probably other factors that made him want to take that fight when, as you said, he didn't necessarily have to, that they slip him some extra money to go through with it? Were there, you know, external pressures to make sure that that event still went, went on? Yeah, probably. But I also think that in that moment, he decided, oh, I'm more ready than this guy. I still have a game plan. And I bet that if he's that much overweight,

that this game plan that I have to stay composed, to outbox him, that's going to work this time. And it did. He made every correct decision, both in taking the fight and in what he did inside the ring. And it altered now the trajectory of his career. Shit, I still wouldn't have done it. I mean, I still would have done it.

I get all those things that you're talking about, but it's still Borisio a lot. who just battered Josh Warrington in their first fight against each other and probably would have done it again if that fight didn't get called off in the second round of the rematch. Knox him out cold with an absolutely vicious left hand four months earlier. I still wouldn't have gone through with it. I still would have gone through with it.

Credited Lee Wood, great to Ben Davison too. Great game plan. And give Ben Davidson credit because the process of Lee Wood winning this fight in May began back in what was the January, February, when they first fought because Ben Davison quickly threw in the towel after Lee Wood was knocked down by Laura in that first fight took a lot of criticism for that because people, you know, social media, wherever, suggest he should have let Lee Wood keep trying to fight, let the champion go out on his shield as we hear so often in boxing. Ben Davidson knew that this could be coming,

that a rematch could be coming. And if he had let Lee Wood take a bigger beating in that fight, maybe he wouldn't be the fighter we saw last Saturday night. So credibly would for doing it. But I feel like Ben Davison, who has emerged as one of the best young trainers in all of boxing, deserves a lot of credit for everything he's done surrounding these two last two fights. Yeah, Davison has a very, I think a very modern approach to the sport, you know, with the analytics that he uses, with the tape study that he uses. And I think a very empathetic approach to the sport, both in terms of, you know, as you mentioned,

when he decides to take his fighters out of fights, but also the types of game plans that he employs as well. He is a safety first trainer. I don't think that that's a pejorative to call him that. I think that he wants his fighters to win while taking as little punishment as possible. And I think that as the sport evolves and we learn more about it and we start talking about fighters in a different way, I think as viewers are becoming more and more empathetic as well, I think that you're going to see more trainers of the ilk of Ben Davidson emerge. I think that the hardened trainers, the old school guys will just let fighters go to the bitter end. I think that they're going to start to fizzle out.

And I think that you're going to see more trainers behave the way that Davidson does and approach the sport the way that he does. Yeah. And for Lee Wood, who said in the ring, he's probably got two fights left. I would imagine the next one could be a showdown with Josh Warrington, a domestic fight, City ground is where he wants to see that fight take place over in the UK and then maybe go for a unification fight.

I think a Conlon rematch would have been the most marketable but Lopez just detonated Conland in that fight. And yeah, Lee Wood, I think, has a very good chance against Lopez, but maybe you pump that fight down the road if you want to do a unification fight

later in the year. The big loser this past weekend, though, when it comes to this 126-pound title picture, my man Ray Ford. My man, Ray Ford. Ray Ford does not come out clean in all this. Ray Ford is one of the top contenders at 126. He was angling for a title shot at 126.

I saw members of his team, Corey, in Indio, where I was for the Rocha Young fight. Some of them were part of Team Anthony Young. And, you know, on Friday, they were, I know they were watching with anticipation. Because I think a lot of them, I know a lot of them, were hoping that Maricio Alara stopped Lee Wood. and then Marisa O'Lar moved up, vacating that title, giving them a shot at 126-pound title fight. Now, Lee Wood, you know, for financial reasons, it's not going to go near Ray Ford. Now, Ray Ford has got to go up to 130. And maybe Oshackie Foster is up there for a good fight.

130's got some champions, but not, it's not the most dynamic weight class in terms of names in that division. So shout out to Ray Ford. I know you were working hard to get that title shot at 126, but I don't think 126 is where you're going to get your first shot at. a world title. All right. The big news over the past week in boxing was the official announcement of Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr. These two stars, top five pound for pound fighters, at least on my rankings, they are going to meet July 29th in Las Vegas for all the marbles, all the belts at 147. It is reportedly a deal that has a bilateral rematch clause. So theoretically, we could see this fight twice in 2000.

though let's just worry about the first time, the first one in the moment. I'll ask you the question this way, Corey. Are you as excited about this fight in July of 2023 as you would have been in July of 2021? Ooh, that's a good. That is a good question. I think the answer is probably no, but that's not because I think that this is going to be any worse of a fight or anything like that. I think that there is something to a big fight being made at kind of the first instance that it could be made. And also, you know, we've seen a lot of big fights over the last little while that will rival Spence Crawford in terms of their magnitude.

Right. So it's not like it's going to get lost with those other fights, but in the time that we've waited for this fight, you know, we've seen a number of heavyweight super fights. We've seen, you know, Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia not necessarily comparing. those in terms of the skill level to this fight, but these are big fights, and we've had those happen. So maybe I'm not as excited as I would have been, you know, say two years ago, but ask me again on the week of the fight, Chris, and I think my answer probably changes. And I think that the same could be said. You know, there's a vocal contingent of fans who for a while we're saying, I'm no longer interested in this fight. Even if it gets made, I'm not going to watch it. They've lost me as fans.

I bet those people come around. They'll be back. So I'm treating it the same. They'll all be back. I guess I'd have to go back even further with where my excitement was peaking. And that was probably before the car accident with Errol Spence. Because he has been a different fighter since that car accident. I'm talking about the big one where he flipped the single car, single vehicle accident,

flipped it over a bunch of times, barely escaped with his life, had a lot of damage to his face that kept them out of the ring for an extended period of time. And, you know, the fights he had subsequent, I believe beginning with Danny Garcia, were, you know, he was more boxer than brawler. And not that he was a pure brawler to begin with, but, you know, when guys were hurt, you would see Errol Spence go in and try to hurt them even more. The fights I've seen more recently have been, Errol Spence showcasing his boxing ability.

And look, good for him. He's a talented boxer. He's a huge guy at 147. But, you know, that to me changed some things with this fight. It's still an ultra-competitive fight and a coin flip. But I guess ultimately I may always wish that we saw this fight prior to the Errol Spence car accident that it happened before then. Because I think it would have been more interesting, at least in the ring. They would have been maybe different fighters in the ring.

But it's still, it's an outstanding fight. And credit to Errol Spence for, you know, for getting this. You know, I give Crawford credit too, but credit for Errol Spence for getting this done and pushing for it. Because you and I heard the same things for months. Errol Spence, going to 154, going to fight Keith Thurman. Even folks at Showtime that I talked to, like they were planning for Spence versus Thurman at 154. He was done at 147. He's, again, a huge guy at 147.

making that weight over the last however number of years had to have been incredibly difficult. So credit to him for hanging in there and telling his people, Al Heyman, the people involved, we're going to get this fight over the finish line. We're making this fight happen because I'm not leaving Welterweight until it's done. So I give Spence a lot of credit for that. Yeah. And credit to Terrence Crawford for coming around too, because, you know, last time I was on here, we talked about this in the context of Regis Progray and how sometimes being distrustful of the boxing machine and its mechanisms can sometimes lead you to make decisions

that aren't best for your career, even if you think that there... Regis ProGrade jumped right to the boxing machine, didn't he? Right, well, yeah, there you got, you know, came right back around. Right, you know, and in Terrence's case, I think that there was a period of time where you thought, oh, man, you know,

he's going to be fighting on BLK Prime. He's going to be this independent thinker that's going to take himself out of this big fight, but ultimately did come back around and make it happen. I mean, I want to, be, I want to make sure that we remain excited for this, right? I mean, this is, this is a fight that we've been asking for for so many years. And, you know, I don't want to get to that point we're saying, oh, but is it as good as it could have been three years ago? Like, yeah, I mean,

Air Spence was in a horrifying car accident. He probably isn't the same athlete that he absolutely could have been at his peak, but this is still going to be a fantastic fight. And I don't want to bury this before it actually happens. We, you know, we beg for these crumbs in boxing and we should be able to get excited for for nice things when they do happen. Yeah, I agree. That car accident, by the way, October 10th of 2019, so it was just after the win over Sean Porter. So he's had the win over Danny Garcia.

He had the win, which was a stoppage win over your Dana Sugas. The other factor in this, Corey, is, you know, does ring rust come in for Errol Spence? I mean, he has been very inactive over the last few years, in part because of the car accident in 2019, didn't fight again until December of 2020, didn't. fight again after that until April of 2022. And now he's going to have more than a year off since taking on Terrence Crawford, who, you know, he's been the one. We've talked about having issues with Ring Russ being off for too long. Terrence Crawford just fought last fall. So he's,

you know, at least on paper, going to be the more sharp of the two. Do you think that could be a factor in this fight? Yeah, I think that is a big factor. I think for me, when I'm breaking down this fight and, you know, I'm not prepared. to give a prediction or anything like that right now. But the thing for me is always, when I'm picking fights that are this razor thin, I tend to edge towards the fighter that I've seen win in a variety of different ways.

And Crawford, to me, I think, has shown himself to be a little bit more adaptable. Now, maybe that's because Spence, you know, hasn't had to switch it up too much. But I think that Crawford is also a fighter that fights more on instinct than Spence. does and it makes me kind of lean toward him when I'm playing his simulations in my mind. But frankly, that's just because I've seen Crawford do so many different things and win in

different ways, win rounds in different ways. Spence really hasn't had to, he hasn't had to vary his approach as much as Crawford has decided to throughout his career. So, yeah, when you combine the ring rust factor and just the depth of the toolbox of Terrence, Crawford, you know, I'm liking how it's looking for him heading into this fight. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily picking him in this fight, but I think that there's reason to kind of be edging towards him right now. Is the winner of this fight the number one pound for pound fighter in boxing? I think that the winner of this fight, I mean, probably has. They have the argument that they have the best win of any active fighter, right? And that's going to do a lot. And recency bias

goes into the making of these rankings too. It's going to be hard for the makers of these lists, and I'm one of them. I'm on the ring ratings panel too. It's going to be hard after this fight, especially if someone wins decisively to not install that person as the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the world.

It's just going to be too tempting. So, I mean, does that definitively make them the best fighter in the world or not? I don't know, but I know it's going to get the winner of this fight a good chunk of those votes. So, I mean, the answer is the same. either way, right? And you figured there's not going to be, well, you know, look, it could be, the reason it could be difficult is when is the in-of-way Fulton fight schedule for? Like that's July, right?

Yeah, so within a couple weeks of that fight too. Yeah. Yeah, right around there. Like that, that to me makes is what would make it more difficult. Because if Inouye beats Fulton, who is, you know, unified title holder at 122 and his first fight at 122, man, it's going to be tough to keep Inouye off that list, given everything he's done at 118. But look, I've got Turnscrofford at number one on my list right now. If he beats Errol Spence, I will keep him at number one on my list. Spence, if he beats Crawford, you know,

we talk about resume. There won't be many guys in boxing with better resumes than Errol Spence. I mean, everybody at 147. Everybody that's elite at that weight class. He will have cleaned out the division. We use that phrase a lot, but Errol Spence will have cleaned out that division, at least in terms of guys that are part of his kind of era.

and then maybe he goes to 154 and we can talk Jamel Charlo at a different time, depending on what happens with him in the future. All right. Ryan Garcia has been back in the news the last couple of weeks. He joined forces with Derek James, who trains Errol Spence and Jermel Charlo. We knew that a couple of weeks ago. Now, Ryan Garcia is on social media saying he wants to fight Raleigh-Romero next for the 140-pound belt.

Oscar Delahoya posted a picture of him, with Raleo Romero from the Alexis Rocha fight this past weekend. Oscar on Twitter claims he's going to present options to Lupa Valencia, the manager of Ryan Garcia at some point over the next couple of days. I actually think this is a perfect fight for Ryan Garcia. I mean, look, Ryan does not need to be in an A-level fight. And even though Raleigh-Ramero has one of the four major titles, no one is calling Rale-Romero an A-level fighter.

He is a fun fighter. He is a guy that sure as hell knows how to sell a fight, but based on what we've seen in recent performances, whether it's Tank Davis or whatever that mess was with Ismail Barroso, a fight that he was losing before Tony Weeks injected himself into that situation. That's a winnable fight for Ryan Garcia. And everybody's been clamoring for Ryan Garcia to fight for a major world title. Well, the opportunity is not going to get much better than that. And Corey, at some point, Roli's going to get himself into a big fight because he does talk a lot

and he is good for a promotion. So if you're Ryan Garcia and your Golden Boy, you want to be that big fight because if Roli Ramirez goes out and fights like Devin Haney, he's probably going to lose. If he goes out and fights Regis Progray, he's probably going to lose. If he fights any of the top guys at 140,

he's going to be a heavy underdog against whoever he fights. So I kind of like this. even though it's his debut as a full-time junior welterweight, I kind of like this fight for Ryan Garcia if they can make it made. How do you think? I love this fight for Ryan Garcia. I think that this is the exact direction that he should go.

And you're right, Chris. Like, is there a more vulnerable world champion in the sport right now than Roli Romero? Like, there might not be. And he's on the short list if you were ranking which of the current world titleists right now are the most beatable, it would be a role. Romero. In fact, he won his title in a fashion that was wholly undeserving. Maybe he would have ultimately won that fight, but it was a fight that he was losing to Ishmael Barroso. So let me present another scenario to you. You know, Ryan's with a new trainer, like maybe you want a little bit of a

bounce back fight to see what he's got with a new style, a new approach. Let's say the Roli Romero fight hadn't happened. You know, Ryan Garcia versus Ishmael Barroso? Like, is that kind of the type of fight you're thinking of for Ryan Garcia, he doesn't need that. Why not fight the guy that technically beat Barroso and has a world title might not even be as tough of a fight as Isfaira Barroso, but there's

a world title on the line and it'll probably sell a bunch of pay-per-views and make everyone a bunch of money. This is absolutely the fight that he should go after. I mean, this is for a variety of reasons, and it kind of keeps him in that ecosystem of all these names. There's a connection to Tank Davis. You know,

he'll get a world title. This is just the perfect way for Ryan Garcia to go. I think that they should do whatever they need to do to make this fight. Yeah, it makes all the sense in the world. You fight for a world title, and if you win, Eric Gomez, Oscar Delahoya, anyone in a position of power, if someone from the camp of Regis Prograde calls, don't pick up the phone. If someone from the camp of Subreal-Mathias calls, don't pick up the phone. If you get this title, you proceed to do at least two lower-level levels.

title defenses. You look at up and down those mandatory rankings for the WBA and you take the easiest possible option because I don't think just winning a world title solves all the problems that are that Ryan Garcia has with his game. He still needs a lot of work. I just think he can still get a win against a fighter like Roli Romero even while working out the kinks in his game with Derek James. But if you put a title around Ryan Garcia's waist and you have Devin Haney Moving up, Devin Haney apparently going to show up June 17th in New Orleans to watch Regis Progray fight. If Devin Haney finds his way to getting a world title, all of a sudden, middle of 2024, end of 2024, Haney versus Garcia is a big fight.

These two guys have history. They've fought five times of the amateurs. Both these guys can talk. All of a sudden, that's a big fight. And it's also one that even if Devin Haney were to win, Ryan Garcia wouldn't get pulverized in a situation like that. You put them in with Progrey. you put in with Matias, anytime in the near future. And that's a big time problem for Ryan Garcia.

So I think this is great. I think you find a way to close that deal, Golden Boy. Make that fight September, October, November. However long, Ryan Garcia needs to get locked in with Derek James. You know, Roli wants that fight. My only hesitancy, Corey, is like we're doing what we shouldn't be doing, which is pretending the Barroso stuff didn't happen, right? Like, there has just been, I have not heard a single thing

from the Nevada commission about what happened with Tony Weeks and Barroso. I have not heard a single thing yet from the WBA about what happened at a resolution and like what they're going to do

if they're going to do anything for Barroso. Like as much as I think the Ryan Garcia-Rolley-Romer fight is good, it's mainstream and it gets people excited a little bit like Barroso should not get hosed because of this.

He got hosed in that fight. That fight was stopped early and if they had gone to replay, which they could have done after that round, they would have taken away the knockdown as well. So he wouldn't have been dinged with a 10-8 round, which would have put him in an even better position to win that fight. I just, I don't want to be that guy that moves on so quickly

because I was banging the drum a couple of weeks ago that Nevada needed to do something. The WBA needed to do something. I still believe that. So I would like to see Barroso compensated in some way, shape, or form, whether it's a rematch, whether he gets a chance at another title, he deserves something, Corey, after all that happened to him a couple of weeks back. Yeah, I agree with all this.

I think that, you know, what we're talking about here is if there can't be a remedy that would nullify that result, then what would be the best course of action? And if there won't be any kind of remedy from the commission, then, you know, I guess the most satisfying result is Barroso getting a shot at the winner of this fight. You know, I know that when Garcia called out, Rolting, he said, Perfect. Golden Boy, Golden Boy, sign up for that. There you go. Well, I'm sure Golden Boy would happily put Barroso on that undercard.

100% put him on that undercard. 100% to win. That's interesting. That might be the best of both worlds. That good point there. Bravo on that point. I didn't think of that at top of my head. But that's a great idea.

Well, and Ryan said in calling out Roli, he said, I'm doing this for Barroso. So he can play the good guy angle too. Right? You get the victory. you say, all right, Ishmael, my boy, I'm going to do you a solid here. You'll get it. You deserve a shot at this title. And then you have Garcia Barroso as his first title defense. That's, that's exactly what you're lining up and your fantasy booking, too, is perfect. I'm doing, I'm not, I was with you up until I'm doing this for Barroso because he ain't doing

this for Barroso, that's for sure, he's doing it for, no. Nor should he, by the way. He shouldn't be worried about, you know, Ishmael Barroso and what's happening with him. He's worried about himself. And this is a great operational. And this is a great operational. for him to potentially get a world title and then get a very winnable first fight after that world title. I like that plan for Ryan Garcia. Also, love that Devin Haney is going to apparently pop into Progress fight on the 17th. I just, the more people I talk to around Devin Haney, the more I believe he's done at 135. I just, I don't think, you know, unless a Tank Davis fight materializes over the next few weeks, I don't think he's going to stay there.

he obviously has a relation to with Mattron. He said he called Eddie and said, I want to talk about ProGray. I would imagine ProGray wouldn't be his first fight at 140, but you've also got, you know, you got Jack Catterall who just got a win. That's an option for Devin Haney. Mid-July,

you're going to have Richardson Hitchens going up against Montana Love. The winner of that fight is an option for Haney. You can build towards a Progray fight before the end of the year. I just, I don't see him staying at 135, Corey. I think that I mean, there's people that are saying do the rematch, he's never going to do that.

There are people saying he's going to fight Chaucer Stevenson. I don't think that fight needs to happen right now. I think it needs to happen, but I don't think it needs to happen right now, unless Tank is there, move up and start the process of becoming a unified champion at 140 pounds. I mean, that, to me, both feels like where it's going and feels like where it should be going for Devin Haney. Yeah, I get the sense that Haney feels satisfied with what he's accomplished at 135 and justifiably so. I also feel like physiologically he is at, he is like hitting his head on the ceiling of the number of times he could possibly make 135. He looked gigantic in that Lombochinko fight.

And obviously that's in comparison to Lomachenko. That probably makes it seem a little bit more drastic. But Devin seems to have put on even more muscle mass, which means he's cutting from even less body fat, which means I don't know how much longer he can do that. And the answer may be zero times. and again, like there are very appetizing fights at 140 for him still. So it's not like he's running away from challenges at 135. Of course, there may be challenges he may have to put off or avoid in favor of other ones at 140. But to me, I don't think the optics of this look bad.

And also, it doesn't matter. If your body can't make it anymore, it can't make it anymore. And I am guessing that Devin is at that way. I think if you just look at some of the pictures from the actual way in, not the ceremonial way in where he was on stage with Lomachenko and shoved him. The actual way in, which took place hours earlier, some of the pictures that were circulating on social media from that, he was emaciated. I mean, I give him credit.

He made the weight. I think he missed it by 0.1 the first time, but five minutes later he came back and was under 135. He made it, but his body was just so. completely drained. And that's not healthy. And look, I've said this before. You know, one of the things that Teafima Lopez said to me in the ring

after he lost a George Cambosis was, man, I should have moved up. I should have moved up. And Lopez made 135 for that fight, but he knew. Among the reasons that he was not himself in that fight against Cambosis was he wasn't made, you know, for that weight class anymore. So it's better to realize it sooner rather than later. And with the difficulties of a fight against Shakur Stevenson or even a rematch with Lomachenko, it's just not worth it for him to do it at 135. Shikor's eventually going to make it to 140.

And look, I was among the people that, like, I scored the fight for Lomachenko, but I wasn't apoplectic when, you know, Devin Haney won. You know, there were some very, very close rounds. My issue, and we've talked about this on this podcast before, was Dave Moretti scoring the 10th round in favor of Devin Haney. So that was a clear win for Lomachenko. So I was more looking at at a micro level, on a macro level, you know, there's no, no one's going to look at that and scream robbery. At least they shouldn't because that was a close fight that Devin Haney edge. And look, when you're a great fighter and you're in big fights, a lot of them are going to be close.

I mean, how many close decisions has Canelo Alvarez won? Like, you go back to Erislandi Lara. I mean, he's won close decisions. That happens sometimes when you put yourself up against the best. I don't think Devon Haney has anything to answer for when it comes to Lomachenko. And I don't think he should aggressively look for Shakur-Stevenson fight at 135. Yeah, I think that, yes, when you're a great fighter and you fight other great fighters, you wind up in close fights, decisions of which can be debated, right?

I can't think of a single kind of all-time great fighter that doesn't have at least one controversial scorecard on the record that went in their favor. sometimes you do need a little bit of luck, right? Like when you fight the best fighters, most often you don't knock them out. Most often it goes to the scorecards and when they're evenly matched, they can often be debated. And so that happens. You know, you think of the prime grates, all of them got the benefit of the doubt on a scorecard or two. At some point in their career, everybody.

Yes, exactly. And look, if you're Haney, I mean, you're kind of becoming a villain in a way. And I know, like, I know Devin a little bit, having called his fights for so many years, I don't think he loves it as much as Floyd loved it. I think Devin would want, like, wants to be more embraced by the fans. But you can make a lot of money being the villain. You can make a lot of money being the guy that nobody can be. I mean, people weren't tuning in to Floyd Mayweather fights,

at least not at the end, to see something that was going to be wildly entertaining. They were tuning in to see if Shane Mosley or Victor Ortiz or Marcos Maidana, or any of these other guys could beat him. Like they wanted to see him lose and see this guy derailed. Devin Haney can kind of take the conductor's seat in that train and make himself a boatload of money doing things that way. So not a bad thing to be not popular amongst the boxing purist there, Devin Haney. Last thing for you, Corey, we will both be in Detroit, Michigan on Saturday.

Little Caesar's Arena where Clarissa Shields will face Marcella Corneo. She will be defending her middleweight titles in that fight. Clarissa, of course, is a three-time and three-division undisputed champion, done some remarkable things over a short period of time in her career. But, and I brought this up with Clarissa on her interview later. Like, she really wants to feel more of the love, to put it that way. Like, you know, some of the things she's posted on social media where she's talking about how she should be considered one of, if not the faces of boxing,

that she should be, number one, on every pound for pound list. I saw her tweet something out after the Katie Taylor, Shantelle Cameron fight where she's talking about, well, is Shantel now number one? I don't know. Like, just kind of poking the people that are not talking about her more. I'm of the opinion, Corey, that the only way for Clarissa Shields to get kind of the attention

she wants is to knock people out. And, you know, the boxing purist may kind of hate that and say, well, wins or wins. He's racking up wins at three-way classes, all that stuff. And that's great. And it's why she is widely considered the number one woman on the pound-for-pound list. But to get traction and to be on these highlight reels that help you gain traction, you got to get stoppages. It's as simple as that.

Like, Clarissa Shields just beat Savannah Marshall. But you can argue that Savannah Marshall financially is in a better position than Clarissa Shields because, I mean, she's got that. kind of one-punch knockout power that makes people want to watch her. It's what's going to make her fight with Franchon Cruz

Desern a couple of weeks from now or a couple of weeks from three weeks now about what we're recording this. That's what's going to make that fight so compelling. So my advice to Clarissa Shield, it's not that she needs it, but maybe it's take more chances,

maybe it's look for more opportunities to get stoppages because she's already got the talent. She's as talented as they come in women's boxing. She's got the hardware. Three-time undisputed champion, two-time Olympic gold medalist, she's got it. What she doesn't have is that reason for the casual fan to tune in.

And that comes from knockout power and knocking out opponents. And that can come via the one-punch knockout. That can come via flurrying. And I know Cloressa's fought top-tier opponents. And as we just discussed, when you fight top-tier opponents, you don't get the kind of spectacular stoppages that you get, earlier in your career. But we're looking at an opponent in Marcella Cornejo,

good fighter, rank number one, by all three of the sanctioning bodies. But this to me, Corey, is an opportunity. Clarissa Shields to make a statement to go out there and put this girl down and give her team and give her that kind of highlight real push that you only get from securing knockouts.

Yeah, I think that some highlight real knockouts would probably give Clarissa a little bit of a boost. But I think that, you know, when you ask the question, like, what would make Clarissa Shields more popular? I think that the answer would be if Clarissa Shields were just an entirely different person. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I mean that Clarissa is, I mean, number one, she has been a victim of the fact that she is so good and so far above her contemporaries. Like, you can, if you're making a list of athletes who are, and the distance between them and their immediate contemporaries, the people that they could feasibly compete with,

Clarissa is on that list for having the widest gap between her and anyone else that could possibly fight her or could have possibly fought her during her career. So that, like, she's always been a victim of that. But also, Clarissa is just, like, she's going to play the antagonist a little bit on social media, right? Like, I know that she does believe those things. Like, she probably does believe she should be the face of boxing. But she also knows that when she says it is going to trigger a certain demographic of people. There are going to be people in her mentions that are going to be furious about that. And that is a small sample size. But I mean, let's let's not pretend. Let's not fake the fact that if you look in Cloresa's mentions that there

isn't an element of both race and gender that are at play that are that is motivating certain people to not like her. So that's already there too. I also think that we need to quantify, you know, what do we mean by kind of hitting that national? level in terms of popularity in boxing because Clarissa you know is probably in terms of just pure notarion right and that's different from popularity in terms of like everyone loving you but in terms of notoriety i mean cloressa's probably had more mainstream coverage or as much mainstream coverage as almost anyone you could think of over the last you know this generation of fighters and and and that's from i'm talking like centrist publications like people and good good morning

and whatnot, Loresa's on there. Like, we'll use, let's use Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence, for example. If we went on

on the street and asked 100 people to identify kind of these three people, I bet the number of people that could identify those two male fighters is probably very close

to the number of people who know who Cloresa Shields is. And she's fought on every major network. She's had a whole lot of success. I just think that she's going to be,

she's going to be held back by the factors that I just outlined almost no matter what she does. Even if she knocks Mary Cornahoe out of the ring and completely unconscious, I don't know how many of those would actually alter the trajectory or the number of people who are like, bra, bra, I love Clarissa Shield. That's just going to be the case, I think. I think what you said about the contemporaries and how much better she is, that's as big a factor

as any. I mean, Katie Taylor had an Amanda Serrano fight fallout, and a few weeks later, she was set to face Chantelle Cameron in another megafite. Like Katie Taylor can look up and down her weight class and find megafights that will headline and draw a lot of interest. Clarissa Shields right now, you know, cannot do that. That's why, you know, for Clarissa, as close as she is with Franchon Cruz de Zern,

she's got to be rooting for Savannah Marshall to win this fight. Because a rematch with Savannah Marshall over in the UK is probably going to represent the most money for her. It probably will generate the most interest because that fight, even though she won cleanly, that was the most competitive fight she's had in her career. You know, she needs more opponents like that. You know, maybe it's down the line,

Shadisha Green, who, you're watching her, and she's just violent in the ring. She has a lot of fun to watch in the ring. But she needs the kind of depth of opponents that Katie Taylor has. She does. Yeah. And that's what would get her, I think,

to whatever level she's at right now, that's what we'll get it to the next one. Yeah, and maybe down the line, I know, like, Lauren Price is very young in her professional career, but if Lauren Price grows up from 147 and, you know, they kind of get in the same neighborhood, then you have another fight there. That's always going to be an issue with Corresa. But I think that she's probably going to be one of those athletes who is maybe better appreciated after the fact when we can fully contextualize everything.

I mean, this is a woman who's going to have a feature film made about her with, I think, isn't Hallie Barry the lead in the movie? She's had a novel based on her life, a Netflix documentary. Like, I think that we're going to better appreciate Clarissa Shields after the fact. And it'll probably be a very profitable post career for Clarissa Shields as well, as she relives her whole life story and career story as well. But, I mean, she's done pretty damn well. As there are most fighters would trade spots with Clarissa,

just in terms of her income. And almost every fighter would trade spots with Clarissa in terms of her achievements Vincent Wink. So, Corey, you were sick last week. Yeah. So you couldn't be ringside with us in Indio, California. On a scale of 1 to 10, how disappointed were you that you couldn't call Oscar Coyazzo's knockout win over Melbourne Jerusalem that secured Coyazo the 105 pound title?

11. To the point that I would have been so upset and so grief-stricken with FOMO, that I did not watch the broadcast live. I'm sorry, DeZone. I'm sorry I didn't give you my clicks. I had to go back and watch it after the fact because I would have been too upset, so instead I watched Fatal Attraction. But shout out to Oscar Colazo, who had just

another brilliant performance. And as I wrote about unboxing scene on the column that's up, I think right now, on unboxing scene.com or from a couple of days ago, you know, a potentially kind of landscape-changing type fighter, where between he and the Shigiyoka brothers at 105. We now have an influx of young talent that scores knockouts. Listen, I, you're all in on

105, Chris, aren't you? I know you are. I can't. I can't. You love minimum weights. I love Oscar Grasso. He is a, a really, you know, compelling character at 105. And look, maybe 105 can become what 115 became 10 years ago when Chocolate Tito and, you know, Estrada and all those guys made a run. But for Now I'm going to put a pin in that and end this podcast on that. Corey, check Corey out this weekend. He will be in Detroit calling the Clarissa Shields, Marcella Cornelio fight for DeZone. I will be there as well. Corey, appreciate the time, my friend.

Anytime. And tune in Thursday night, Eric Bezini and Jose Macias on ESPN Plus as well. It's a busy weekend. All right. All right. Goodbye. And when we come back, the self-styled greatest woman of all time, Clarissa Shields.

Imagine an Olympics. where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. is a way. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball

to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now, I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kyr Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. All right, so I very recently finished moving. I mean, I guess you'd never really finish moving because a lot of things associated with a move

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Or you can research and connect with local pros for your specific project. So download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's A.N.GI. com. All right, Clarissa Shields is a two-time Olympic gold medalist, three-time, three-division, undisputed title holder on Saturday. She will defend her middleweight titles, but not against the opponent that was originally planned. Hannah Gabriel's is out of a scheduled middleweight title fight. She tested positive for a banned substance in her place. Maricella Cornahoeho, who will take over and face Clarissa on June 3rd. Clarissa joins me here.

on the show. Coresa, we're recording this in the immediate aftermath of the announcement that Hannah Gabriel's tested positive. So what is, what's kind of going through you right now

as you kind of digest this news by Hannah Gabriel's? Newfoundland of fan, you know, I still have to, I still have to defend my unintended championship here at my home trip

in front of 15,000 fans here at Little Tourses Arena. So I can't focus too much on, you know, Hannah Gabriel's, you know, testing dirty or whatever, I have to stay focused on the fight, you know. So all I would say is just, you know, I hope she get that stuff together. And I hope that this was an eye-opener for all the girls in the sport that, you know,

when you're fighting for these belts, when you're fighting for this world championship and undercutting championships, we are at a level now to where we should be getting vata testing randomly for every match. You know, I've been getting by the testing for all the kids. girls since I fought against Christina Hammer. You know, so I think all the girls should be getting, you know, bottle testing because it's serious. And I don't really want to, I don't know why she kept a positive.

I don't know if she was taking something or she used the cream. Who knows? I just know that I don't have anything in my system that is enhancing me. And she has something in her that can help enhance her. And that's why the fight is off. So I'm just kind of looking past it. and I'm actually excited that now we have a younger, fresher, you know, version of an opponent coming into the ring.

And I plan to dismantle her just like I was going to do to Hannah Gabriel's. Yeah, and you've obviously heard the excuse used by Gabriel's team, which is her dog had some kind of procedure and some kind of cream that contained this ban substance was rubbed on the dog. I've heard of some excuses, Clarissa, in my turn. time. That's a new one, for sure. That's a new one. What did you think when you heard that excuse? I just, you know, I just, you know, I just, it's not my place to judge. But what I will say, let the what would have tested positive. You understand? I'm saying, they want to take my gold

medals and make me be two-time undisputed champ instead of three-time. They want to take away my win from Marcia. They will try to say anything to downgrade me, but especially if I had a fucking an excuse me. But I'm just trying not to really be angry about it because it's still fresh and it's still, you know, it's still just making me upset because I really wanted to get that win. You know, I already beat her, but I wanted to knock her out. I wanted to put this whole thing to rest. I hate when people use stuff over my head. And what I will say is, first time that me and Hannah Gabriel's fought, there was nobody testing. So that just makes me think, you know, what's she doing something then? you know so I'm just doing my best to just say focus on my fight that I still have I've been

preparing very hard for a strong opponent a crafty opponent and I just can't focus no more on Hannah Gabr's and her testing dirty I'm focusing on Marcelo Ponejo who is you know six feet in height um she she's in shape she has more fights than me she's Mexican she's younger than Hannah Gabriel and I know that she really wants to be undisputed champion so I'm focused on her, and I'm just happy to her and her team, you know, work with us to get this fight done, and that she would have been shaping and ready to come and, you know, had this opportunity. Yeah, this is, I believe, the first Mexican fighter that you'll face in your career, which adds a layer of potential intrigue to it.

I believe someone of your team told me that when they were talking to me about this fight. Either way, taking this fight and a new opponent on short notice, You could have postponed this date, done it at a different time. Why was it important for you to fight on June 3rd? We're almost sold out. We're almost sold out at LCA. This is a huge opportunity for me. 15,000 fans here in Detroit at the first fight at Little Cesar's Arena.

And I'm the top of the bill, you know, bringing boxing back to Detroit. I would have been devastated if this fight wasn't able to happen. And I'm happy that if I'm saying, like, so much grace and so much gratitude to Marcella and I know because I am a good. tough test. I am the best. She will be in the ring with the best. And I'm just happy that she's coming with this confidence.

She's coming to win. And we're going to put on a great show for a fan. And now it would be more fans. And it would be, you know, USA versus Mexico now instead of, you know, USA versus Coast of the region. You are the most accomplished women's boxer in boxing history with the goal. medals and the undisputed championships. But following you on social media the last couple of weeks, you still believe that you are

not getting the level of respect that you feel you deserve. Why is that? Where do you see that in it? Well, I mean, you, I think you tweeted something about how after Shantel Cameron beat Katie Taylor, you said is Shantel Cameron, number one, you talked about how you should be considered the face of boxing. you sort of can read that as you feeling like

you're not getting the high level of respect. No, no, no. To be fighting in front of 15,000 here in America, you know, on the zone with the big TV network

and I'm making a lot of money in this fight. I believe that my value in boxing has winner and that I am that I'm one of the faces of boxing, you know.

I'm not going to say rather I'm the, rather I'm the tits or the face or whatever or the booty in box. But I will say that I am one of the faces of the boxing in that I am just to keep building my brand and getting better as I go away. So I'm not, I believe that I deserve more respect, but it's coming. To be fighting here in America in front of $15,000 with the opportunity at this venue is huge for me.

And I believe that my next fight will be even bigger because we got plans to go and fight in Africa, to go back over there to the UK, you know, to fight at T-Mobile arena. I believe that all those opportunities are there for me, and in all will be decided June 3rd. So you mentioned what your next fight would be. Two weeks after your fight, you've got your friend, Franchon Cruz DZern, defending her undisputed 168-pound championship against Savannah Marshall. Who will you be pulling for in that fight? I'll be pulling for a franchise. Savannah Marshall is a tough test.

you know, she's long, she's crafty, she's strong and, but once again, I always say that, you know, she never really fought at her weight. You know, she was at 75 and was supposed to fight for a World Championship

and her fight got canceled. Then she went down, then she skipped 68, it came straight to 6th, and started calling me out, saying that I was scared of it. I don't believe that's a better margin that's ever been in there. with a true 160 pound until she met me. Till me and her guy,

you're right, then you've seen what a true athlete and what a true 160-pounder fights like. I believe that Frank John may not have the skills that I have to, you know, to the degree. But I can tell you she's definitely bigger than me, and she's stronger than me,

and she's been around longer than me. So she got more experience. I think Frank John can figure Savannah Marshall out and actually win the fight. That's what I think. Is rooting for Franchon, is that in any way

kind of rooting against your own interest? Because if Savannah Marshall wins, it makes a rematch with you even bigger, as you well know. It makes that an even bigger fight over in the UK. So how do you divide your loyalties on that from the personal side to the business side? The thing is this.

Me and French on have already talked, And we know that the fight between her and I is the fight like Layla Ali versus and Wolf. So I want her to do well. And I think a rematch with me and Savannah Marshall is huge. And I think the fight with me and French on for undisputed issue. Both of them are huge. So it's not really a conflict and injuries in French on. It's not scared me.

You know, even though that we're friends and we fought before an amateur, she's not afraid of me. We just sparred recently. and she showed me. I'm not, I'm not scared of you still. You know, so, you know, we were in and going at it. So, she's not afraid of me, and, you know, she'll fight me any day, and we'll put our friendship to the side for the lead up and all that stuff. And then we'll fight and then after the fight, we'll be true athletes like we are

and we'll hug it out and still, you know, still support each other. So, but I don't think she'll make my outfit if, you know, it may have been ready to fight each other. But I believe, like, you know, that we would still work together and everything. She's making my outfit for this fight, you know? So I asked you just go off the phone with her 10 minutes before talking with you. She was checking on me as a friend do to make sure that I was okay because you know how emotional I get when things like this happens. She know how my anger is.

And she was just, you know, calling me, tell me like, girl, stay calm. I feel your pain. Just keep a clear head, you know. And then she's like, and I'm going to call you later to make, you know, to give you the tea on the ball. You know, to give you the tea by Maricella. So, you know, we are actually teammates, but we understand the bigger picture. And I just want to make sure that when me and Franchard Cruz do have to fight each other, that they pay us what we deserve.

We get the TV network. We get the venue. And they respect the fight for what it is. It is the fight that you guys never got. When you wanted Leila Ali versus Ann Wolf, you didn't get it. When you wanted Christy Martin versus Lucille Riker, you didn't get it. But you're going to get Teresa Shield versus Frank, or Franchon Cruz, both undisputed chance. That fight you will get and both needs to get paid.

Well, it'll be a big fight and could be certainly even bigger over the next few weeks if both you guys collect wins in your respective fights. First up for you, Maricella Cornahoe, June 3rd, Little Caesar's Arena, live on DeZone. Clarissa, always good to catch up and we'll see you in Detroit. Hey, man. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Clarissa Shields for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll see you next week.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumored me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey. or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.