The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Latest with Tank

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Chris is joined by the guys over at DAZN; AK and Barak to talk about the latest with Tank Davis, what boxing should do and how Showtime should handle the situation. Later, Chris gives you his pick of the weekend. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome back to another boxing with Chris Mannix. As always, you can listen to the show live on the AMP app Just follow Chris Manix on AMP. This is boxing with Chris Manning. Oh, somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion.

Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Maddox, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. First podcast of 2023.

So happy new year to everyone out there listening. Thanks to all for listening, subscribing, rating, reviewing in 2022. We had a great year with the show. It was nearly 60 podcast episodes, some great conversations, great guests. Sergio. Looking forward to doing some more things with this show in 2020. So we do have a big fight this week. Jervante Davis and Hector Luis Garcia will meet in D.C.

Garcia is a 130-pound title holder moving up to 135. This is happening, of course, amid some serious controversy around Davis, who was arrested last week on a domestic violence charge after allegedly striking the mother of his child. This woman has recanted her accusation on social media a couple of days later. And all involved, BBC Showtime have elected to be. move forward with the event. Joining me to discuss that and much more, two of the most passionate boxing guys

that I know Akin Reyes, Barack best, better known as Ack and Barack, the co-hosts of the DeZone boxing show. Fellas, welcome. And, Ak, I will start with you. It's been a crazy week, or really a week or so at this point, getting to this point.

What's been your reaction to, I guess, both the accusations that were leveled against Davis and the decision to move forward with this fight? Well, first of all, Thanks for having us, and I'm honored to be on the first episode of the Chris Maddox boxing podcast. So, look, initially when you hear something like this, first thing I personally do is just wait a little bit before I make any judgment. And even though there's a track record there, there's a video footage of him having some past issues.

So, you know, naturally you would think, oh, this probably happened. But later on in the week, he shared some footage of showing his daughter's mother being strung through upset. And there's a lot of information, and it's a sensitive subject. So I want to get too deep into it. But it seems like he was frustrated. The call was a little sketchy, but I'm not being, you know, I want to be insensitive to women that suffer from domestic violence because this is serious.

But me and myself, to be candid with you, Chris, I've been in situations where women has lied about something, like, in the past. So I understand what it is to be in those shoes. Whether she lied or not, I don't know. She recanted a statement as of now. He's saying that he didn't hit her and so on and so forth. So they're moving on with the fight. So I don't want to touch too much on that. I think that if indeed he is innocent, I think he's going to fight with more of a chip on his shoulder. We all heard him say that at one point that he's frustrated. He doesn't even want to fight anymore. They can keep this. So that's a very. man is suffering that's dealing with some hurt there. I think that we're going to see a very upset

and very motivated, Javentay Davis on Saturday night. That's what I'm seeing. Brock, what do you think? I think the same thing. I think there was a moment of weakness. It was a moment of, you know, guys like you, Chris Mannix, who was getting at him on Twitter, you know what I'm saying? You know, and it looked that way, you know, and we were so quick to defend the woman, not we, because I didn't say a word. you know, I was waiting. But now it's like, I think he got a little, I think he got a little vindicated a little bit. You know what I'm saying?

Maybe exonerated even, you know, so I think he's back focused. And we're going to see the regular Devonty Davis. We're going to see some punishment being handed out. So I want to address a couple things. One, you're right, Barack. I did come up pretty strongly in a column on s.com and on this podcast. as well, with some feelings on it.

I've seen a lot of this in boxing. And, you know, a part of me, as Ack pointed out, is influenced by the video from a couple of years ago. That, you know, that is irrefutable, you know, what happened in that incident in Florida. I did, look, I did get a lot of messages, criticism, about what was deemed selective outrage. A lot of people asked, where was the outrage when it came to Sergei Kovalev. the former light heavyweight champion who was accused and ultimately pled out to assaulting a woman in 2018. That was a felony assault charge that Kovlev was dealing with. That criticism, I will say right now, it was completely fair.

I didn't say or write much of anything after the reporting on Kovlev came out. I didn't say or write much of anything about the incident before Kovalev fought Kinello, a fight that I called for DeZone. I also didn't say, if we're looking at the totality of domestic violence, I didn't say or write much of anything back in 2021 after the video surfaced of tank pulling the woman by the collar in the hallway. That's on me too. The Dana White situation, that's a little bit different.

I'm not an MMA writer, so I wouldn't write about Dana White. But make no mistake, what Dana White is on video doing to his wife is disgusting. And the few people that can discipline him, whether it's his partners with Endeavor or his broadcast partners at ESPN, they should discipline him. Let's be clear on that. But as a reporter, as a writer, as a podcaster, I've got to be better when it comes to consistently addressing domestic violence. I will say this, though, guys. I did get a lot of messages demanding an apology or a retraction in the aftermath of the aftermath of, the statement released by the alleged victim.

I'm just not going to do that. There are only two people who really know what happened that day, but the evidence we have is on one side, there is a 911 tape, there is a busted lip, there is an arrest, and there is a police report that describes in detail an altercation that became physical.

On the other side, there is this carefully worded recant, that came while a multi-million dollar pay-per-view hung in the balance. Look, you don't need to dig too deep to find studies on assault victims recanting and the reasons they do. Google it. There's countless of them. And because of the incident a couple of years ago, an altercation that was caught on video where Davis grabbed a woman in the neck area

and dragged her off a basketball court, Davis has lost the benefit of the doubt in situations like this. Now, accusers lie. And if it turns out this woman lied, she should be arrested, she should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It is a crime to call 911 and lie about what's happening. It is a crime to falsely accuse someone of hitting you. But right now, a lot of the evidence that's out there points to some kind of physical altercation between Davis and this woman. and that is completely unacceptable.

And my point of writing that column was not to single out Davis, though what happened in Florida was obviously the driving force for writing it. It's the spotlight how boxing is dragging so far behind other sports when it comes to how it handles domestic violence. By the way, no one is calling

for Gervante Davis to be thrown in jail because of a situation that evolved that we don't have all the information on, not even close. What I am saying is that boxing should operate like other sports, where if there is a serious situation involving domestic violence, everything involving the people involved in that situation should be put on pause until there is a thorough internal review of the incident. My point is in boxing, I think networks have to act like leagues sometimes.

top executives have to act like de facto commissioners. And look, I know this is a tough spot for Showtime. They're not just in business with Gervante Davis. They're in business with PBC. Any decisions they make regarding Gervante Davis will bleed into that relationship. I also know. Let me chime in real quick. Because you mentioned Showtime.

We all know that when, you know, when the statements that Pauli Mount Langey made about systemic racism. Showtime acted immediately on that, and they ended the contract with him as a broadcaster. So I think Showtime in the past has shown initiative in making a statement and not right away so the network could show some integrity. So I just want to give them credit for that.

I thought about that when you said Showtime. And look, I get different situation. I give them credit for slamming the brakes last year on the Davis-Rolling Romero fight after the accusations came out against Romero. Those were serious accusations. Too serious for that event to move forward. Once Romero was clear of the charges,

they rescheduled the fight, and we saw that played out last May. The point about the dynamic between Showtime and PBC, I know that no one inside the walls of Showtime is comfortable with any of this. These allegations are disturbing. I talked to several people there, Before and after I wrote my column.

Before and after, I taped last week's podcast. Before we taped today's podcast. Even the people I talk to that took issue with specific things that I wrote, they know this is a mess. They know this is ugly. So I can appreciate the difficulty of their situation. So I guess I'll toss it back with this question. You know, violence, when it comes in boxing, it happens.

There's a lot of stuff that goes on. It's just a sport that that's, that there's always going to be that. But should there be a hard line when it comes to issues of domestic violence? And do you think networks can operate like a league or should operate like a league? Or is that too pie in the sky or too, you know,

optimistic for me to think about? It probably is a little too optimistic, but I like it. I like your thinking. I just think everybody should be giving a chance to prove their innocence. And this is one of those cases. Even Roley Romero was guilty in everybody's eyes until he wasn't.

And that's the case. Like we cannot slam anyone. You know, I think you should apologize for that. Even though I didn't think you didn't say nothing crazy, but I think you should apologize because if you were the one who accused of something and then someone recanted and say, hey, you know what, that actually didn't happen,

we can't go according to statistics. We're just going to have to take that person's word. you would want to be cleared of that. You know what I mean? So I've also been in a situation like Ock said where I've been lied to to the police said that I hit a person and I never hit them. And the police took their own judgment and said,

you know what? I don't believe her. I believe him. Miss, you got to go. You know, so it can happen. And it can be that 1%. And yes, he has a sketchy pass. And if we're going to judge him according to that,

that's just not fair. You know what I mean? But I do like your idea of net. networks getting more involved. I do like them holding fighters accountable. Yes, 100%. I agree with that. I do. I do as well, Chris, but the only difference, as you know, in boxing, you know, these networks, it's big business. When you talk about a league like the NFL, the NBA, you know, there's so many teams, so many games, suspending a player, it's not going to do no damage to the league. Now, suspending a big, big time fighter that creates revenue, that's going to do a lot to the network, especially the boxing department.

a lot of influence there. It won't be as easy as we imagine. Should Dana White get suspended? That's what I want to know. I was thinking the same thing. Should he suspend himself? Yeah, I mean, like, that's a good, like, I don't, we don't cover MMA, obviously, but that's a compelling question because I'm not sure who would be responsible.

Is it the SPN and how they deal with Dana White? I mean, they are the ones signing the checks that, you know, I wouldn't say keep Dana White's company afloat, but provide the most significant source of revenue for Dana White. I think there should be some repercussions for that. I guess where we differ guys on this current situation is that I can't give a lot of credibility to a clearly written by a lawyer's statement that, you know, that or an official statement, you know, denying something happened. Like if the police come out and arrest this, like should this woman be arrested? There was also a witness. There was also a witness there who said, there was also a witness there who said,

who said the 911 call was phony, basically. It didn't match the scene. And if you kind of listened to it. I believe it was a nutritionist. I believe it was somebody who worked for. Yeah, but did you see the footage also, Chris, the Javonte posted. I did.

I did. I saw all of it. It's just, look, it's not a situation where I think you should be canceled forever. But, like, you know, Showtime did pump the breaks on the Romero Davis fight. Now, this is different. Like, Davis is, Romero was replaceable. Girvante is the cash cow there. Jervante is the guy that drives all the revenue.

It's a far more difficult decision. And like I said, I appreciate the challenging position that people in Showtime are in. I guess it's just the, and look, I'm sure that, you know, when I get asked by my bosses to write something on this, I take into account the video that I saw from him at the basketball game. I take into account, you know, reading the witness statement from the hit and run where the witness said she was pregnant and was looking at Gervante saying, help me, and he ran away. Like, this is the kind of stuff I do take, you know, that maybe it triggers me a little bit when I understand that.

But the bottom line to come up to bring it back full circle on this. Like there does, and this is where I'll agree with critics of something of what I wrote, it needs to be across the board. If you're going to write about domestic violence, you write about domestic violence at every case possible. regardless of who the fighter is, what promoted they're aligned with, what network they're on. Boxing to me, though, guys, it doesn't, and I wrote this,

it doesn't, it has not evolved when it comes to domestic violence the way other sports have. Other sports weren't always great at this. I mean, to point out stuff that happened in the 90s, early 2000s, but those sports have started to evolve.

They've started to take domestic violence a lot more seriously. I'd just like to see boxing take, you know, domestic violence more seriously as the sport moves forward. And I think networks are the only ones with kind of the gravitas to do it. There's nobody to hold them accountable. And that's the thing.

So it's a free for all. You get to do whatever the hell you want, make whatever the decision you want because there's no one federation. Yeah, yeah. Well, good points all around. I appreciate the perspective there. We do have a fight this weekend. And I think, you know, before all this happened, I thought it was a pretty good fight. You know, Gervante being billed as a stay busy fight, it's tough to stay busy fight as you're going to get.

Hector Luis Garcia is, undefeated. He's got 10 knockouts and his 16 wins. He is coming up from 1.30, but you see these two guys standing next to each other. Hector Luis Garcia is the bigger man. He's coming off the best year of his career where he picked up wins over Chris Colbert over Roger Gutierrez. These are quality wins over quality fighters. And he beat these guys. Took the fight against Colbert on what, like three weeks notice and still picked up a win there. I think he's trained by a guy who at the best year in 2022, Bob Santos, who was phenomenal, training up a lot of Dominican fighters last year,

including Hector Garcia. So, Ak, I'll start with you. How dangerous an opponent is this for Gervante Davis? I'm going to be honest with you. And I said it early in the week on the zone boxing show. I don't think he is going to be as dangerous as some may think. And also, we all saw Devin Haney make a statement that kind of do a little wrench in that, that idea that we had that this is going to be a war when he said he had to kick him out of

that was fascinating that was fascinating see devon just pour cold water on hector's chances exactly so so to be honest for a minute i started to be sold on this i said okay we're going to get a good fight when i heard that from devon i just felt depleted i said oh man oh we're going to see a knockout in three or four rounds and look there's some footage that javanti put out there very short footage of their sparring session. And it didn't look like, you know, Devin was teeing off all of him. He was getting the better of him.

But there wasn't enough footage there for me to make a judgment where, oh, he was teeing off on him. He had to kick him out of camp. We didn't see that much. But Javante made a statement, watch what I do to him on Saturday night. And I'm in agreement with Javentja here. I like, I like Hector.

And I think he's had some big wins to your point. But I just think Javante's style is too relentless for a guy like that. And Hector does stay in a pocket long enough to get hit. I mean, and that's the danger when you fight a guy like Javonte Davis. When you're long and ranging and you know how to move and evade punches, you know, you make it a little difficult for him. This guy, Hector, Garcia, is not that type of guy. He likes to mix it up.

And I think within six rounds, he will get hit from a big shot. And that fight is not going to be as competitive as people think. Brock, I want to give you, I want you to weigh in. But can we also address how, like, leaking sparring videos and talking about sparring has become, like, normal? Remember, I mean, I'm old enough now at this point to remember when, like, sparring used to be sacred. Yes. We used to not talk about what happened behind sparring. Now you open up Twitter and there's all these pictures of something of videos of what's happening in sparring, man.

It's crazy. It's just social media, man. I mean, back then, there weren't any iPhones. Yeah, you know, sparring definitely was sacred, Chris. I agree with you. What happened in sparring used to stay in sparring like Vegas. I just think, let's just talk about one individual and let's talk about Devin Haney. Like, yes, it's happening rampant now.

But Devin Haney, I think he has a chip on his shoulder because I feel like he's the king of the division. No one's calling him that. I don't, I feel like the boxing world is not calling him the king of the division. Just a minute ago, sometimes you got to call yourself. the king in order to remind everybody that. Because just a minute ago, Cambosis was calling himself the emperor. And people started calling him the emperor. But, you know, Giovante Davis is a quote-unquote champion.

You know, they're calling him a champion. And people are still asking, the media is still asking, who's the top guy at 135? Meanwhile, you got one guy with all of the belts that matter. And that's Devin Haney. And I think Devin Haney is just tired of hearing about guys like Ryan Garcia, tired of hearing about guys like Javonte Davis and anybody else,

Chiquor Stevie's or anybody else, when he's the man and everybody should be dying to fight him. So I think that's probably what led him because usually Devin Haney doesn't want to talk about the times that he beat people up in sparring, usually. So I think he got pushed to that, and that's the Devin Haney we see in that. Well, he didn't even show the sparring, Barak.

It wasn't him. He made a quick, short, you know, sarcastic statement. No, but he was so vivid. He was so detailed saying I kicked them out of sparring. Normally he doesn't go there. Yeah, true. Yeah, and even Ryan, when I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago, you know, I was asking him about, you know, are you concerned about, you know,

Hector Luis Garcia spoiling, you know, a tank fight? Like, nah, I've seen him. I don't think all that much of him. It's just like the level of disrespect for a guy that's 16 and 0 coming off the best year of his career with a great trainer behind him. I just, I'm stunned by it. Maybe. Look, maybe Tramante makes short work.

of them. Maybe he's... Probably so. I'm sorry to cut you up. Probably so. Javante Davis is probably going to knock him out. Maybe soon, maybe not. But I don't want to discredit his worthiness of being there. And I don't want to discredit Javante Davis once he gets this victory. I think this on paper, I think this is a very good victory. I just think Javante Davis is levels above. And I don't think that that's discrediting in an opponent. Like, you know, he's earned his fight. it's a fight that was made and Javante is taking care who's in front of him. If somebody says,

look, I think Javentate is going to make easy work in this guy. To your point, Barack is just his levels above him, but that's not this, he had a hell of a year. 2022 was big for him. Now he's stepping up to a level that I don't think he's going to be able to deal with. I can be wrong. We don't know. We know

this is an thing that's unexpected. We don't know. I just don't see it. You know what I'm... We know. We know. I tell you what, though, what fascinates me, about this fight a little bit is that as soon as Hector Luis Garcia beat Roger Gutierrez, he was calling for a tank fight. This guy already fighting in 130. He's 130 pound champion. There are other

fights he could have. He was calling for a tank fight. So there's a level of confidence he's going to take into this fight. And Sergio's talked about this to me a lot over the years. Something about undefeated fighters. Like they come in there, they've got a certain swagger, a certain moxie, a certain confidence. So I think you're going to get the best of Hector Luis Garcia in this fight. I think it's,

You know, look, Gervante has a history of getting to guys late. You know, past the sixth round, whether it is Raleigh Romero, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Leo Santa Cruz. If you're going to bet on anything, you're probably betting on Gervante catching with something big. But I'm very interested to see what the game plan of Bob Santos, the game plan of Hector Luis Garcia, what it is coming into this fight. Only problem for Hector Garcia that is he's fighting an undefeated fighter as well. You're right. He has that same type of swagger and that same type of nuance of not knowing. how to lose. You're right. You're 100% right.

They both come in with that attitude. Yeah, I feel like, you know, that was just a PBC plan for Hector to call out Javante David, because it really didn't make any sense. Javante Davis doesn't have a belt. You could have called out Shakur-Stevison because at that time, Severson, well, he's still a 130-pound fighter. He hasn't fought in a 135. So he could have called out champions. He's not a 130-pound fighter. At that time, all right, but he hasn't fought at 135. So that's why I'm going to still call him that.

and he could still win some belts at 130. So that's just PBC keeping that stuff in-house. That's all it really is. And Mario Barros is a very big guy. And Keith Thurman couldn't get him out of there. Javante Davis got power like that. I don't see how hectic could last in there, man. Yeah, no, I think that's the best bet to make in a fight like this,

that tank eventually catches him. I want to connect Ryan Garcia to this, though. Ryan, of course, came out a couple of weeks ago and said, I'm not going to take an interim fight. I'm going to wait for that tank fight, presumably in April. Tanks going ahead, having this fight in January. It doesn't sound like there's going to be any fallout from what happened last week. He does, though, face that trial in mid-February for the hit and run.

And look, that's a case that could have been settled last year, like the defense and the prosecution agreed on a plea deal that included no jail time. The judge threw that out. So it sounds to me like the judge, like there's pressure from somewhere to make sure that in any plea deal, Giovante Davis serves something substantial. A lot of that came, I think, from that witness testimony, the woman that said she, you know, described what happened in her particular situation. Right.

So, like, that's, that puts that fight in peril, at least for April, right? So if you're Ryan Garcia, at all that's going on right now, Ack, do you reconsider, like, taking an interim fight? Do you, do you not want to, the concern for Ryan Garcia, for me is like, you get into, like, March, and all of a sudden you learn that Giovante's not going to be available for April, and then you're scrambling to find someone you can fight in April or May, and you kind of sabotage part of your year. Is that something Ryan Garcia should be thinking about? I'm in agreement with that. I mean, first off, when he made the statement or announcement that he doesn't want to tune up,

I disagree with that approach. Now, we don't know why maybe he wouldn't have been ready. Maybe he was too heavy, you know, to be ready in January and needed more time. I thought that him maybe scoring another big knockout, even though the opponent, you know, somebody, I guess you could say it's not credible. It still, I think, creates more anticipation for the fight. He's still knocking guys out the way he beat. Fortuna, I think it would have made the Javante fight even bigger, especially if Javante wins by

knockout and staying busy. I love the staying busy fact. I think that's over, I mean, the era has changed in boxing. I was talking to Oscar Dahlia one time, and he said, listen, these guys only want to fight two times a year. You know, I remember fighting four times a year. Big fights, and I think they're fighting to go back to that and not spend eight, nine weeks in camp. I used to spend six weeks in camp and getting ready for a fight. So, I like staying busy. And April's a long time from now. So I 100% agree with you.

I think that he should consider that open case with Javonte Davis. But outside of that, just why not get some rounds in? Pick up a check while you're at it. Pick up a highlight real. And let's see what happens in April. I mean, Ock, have you ever trained for 12 weeks to fight somebody that you don't want to fight? No, that's my saying. You should not have to train for 12 weeks.

I'm just asking you a question, you know, is that something you would want to do? You'd think that was something you would want to do? Train for 12 weeks or eight weeks, let's say eight weeks. Train for eight weeks for somebody that literally does nothing for your career. No, absolutely. I mean, I would love the opportunity to make. You know what, you know, I know you would. I would love the opportunity to make seven figures and train for eight weeks.

Absolutely, 100%. All right. Well, that's not what he wants to do. He doesn't want to. I mean, you act like the guy's making crumbs. And he's already a millionaire. He doesn't want to beat up his body. For a guy like him, for a guy like him, he doesn't have to train eight weeks.

I'm sorry, no disrespect to him. Ryan could have got on there five, six weeks and got ready for that guy. You're talking nonsense. No, that's my opinion. Any smart fighter, well, that's a, that's a foolish opinion. Because any smart fighter will take every fight seriously. Now, if you want to count of that, you're crazy. Hold up, hold up.

So Oscar De La Jolla, as great as he is, he didn't take fight seriously? because he told me from his own mouth, I trained six weeks for most championship fights. And guess what? When he stepped up to the big dogs, he lost. So stop it. Oh, come on, come on. I don't even know why you brought that.

I don't even know why you brought Ascar up. The point is that, and I don't want to go on a rent here, Chris, right on the point is that the fight didn't have to go. Ryan didn't have to fight at 135. The fight could have been at whatever weight it was. So he didn't have to drain himself to get down because it's an interim fight. He could have picked up a check, picked up a knockout,

and still had several months to get ready and get prepared for 10 years. You just called boxing the theater of the unexpected. You say it so much, but you don't really hold to that. Understand that I, you won't let me talk? Okay. This is the line. This freaking guy, bro. You just said that today, theater of the unexpected. You said it today.

Right. Now, listen. Okay. If that's the case, there's no such thing as an interim fight in reality. In other words, anything can happen. That's what you said earlier, too. Okay, so in other words, nobody should fight any. You're going to lose nicely.

Don't worry. No, I'm already won. Okay. Anything can happen in a fight, right? So you're dealing with a guy who's rich, who only has one fighter on his mind, and you're going to tell me fighting a Mercito Hester will help him do a better job against somebody who's...

Did I finish what I'm saying? Did I say that? I didn't say that. I didn't say that. There has to be a reason to fight somebody. I just, I just said it. He doesn't want the money. That's ridiculous for you to say that.

Now, if it's not for the money, then what else is? It's not, think about this. Nobody's saying this. How many times did tank fight in 2022? Once. Exactly. There you go. One time.

Now, wait. Wait. I'm glad I can chime in every so often. Wait. No, we're taking over Christmas show. I am. Listen. I'm not, no, no, no, you're taking on.

You're not making other words. You're not making a point. Don't take shit and talk. So take you and I'm making a point. You're not making a point. Every fight. You're not making a point. I listen to you talk, even though what you say makes no sense.

And then I, and then I, and then I wait. How does it not make sense? Let me finish. This is what you're finished. This is what you're saying. Just be quiet for a second. Just be quiet for a second. Have some self-control.

Devante Davis fought one time last year. How many times did Ryan Garcia fight? Twice. He don't need the fight no more. He's going to wait for Javonte Davis, and that's it. That's it. He's going to wait. Javante Davis needs another fight because he only fought one time.

So that's why he's fighting. Ryan is like, I just beat two guys who are in the top 10. Leave me alone. I want to fight who I want to fight. So now, also last point, after he beats Morsito, you know what they're going to say? he's a bum. So what? So what? And listen, stop count. I'm talking to somebody.

I'm talking to somebody. Can't deal with somebody saying something about him on Instagram and you're going to say, so what? All right. Listen, stop counting. Stop counting people's pockets. You don't know if he could use another million dollars or if one point five to whatever they're paying him nowadays. You're saying he doesn't need the money. Who are you to say that? We don't know that. All right. Whatever. At the end of the day, I just made, I was just responding to Chris. I think he should have fought because it wouldn't have, he would have made some money. He would have created a nice little highlight real because I think he would have

score a big knockout and he still would have had enough time and he would have been staying busy in the gym. He didn't need eight weeks for that guy. What if he gets injured? What if he gets injured? So in that case, nobody fight anybody unless it's a big championship. No, we're talking about fights that's three months apart or less. That don't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. Here's the other concern I have about Ryan not fighting. You know, we've seen what the, a little bit of what the Showtime PBS schedule is going to look like. You are trending towards a March date with Caleb Plant against David Benavides. I hope that's on regular showtime. I kind of doubt it only because you got to pay these guys a pretty significant amount of money. It might be forced onto pay-per-view.

If they can put it on regular showtime, more power to them for doing that. It's a tremendous fight. And you saw the tour. tweet from Errol Spence. He says he's coming back in April. Networks traditionally like the space paper views out. So if PBC is doing multiple paper views already in March and April, it strikes me as, at least possible, that we could see a Garcia Davis fight push to May. And then, I don't know, what are you going to do in May?

You're going to try to work it around a Canelo date? Are you going to, like, there's just a lot of questions with, what that calendar looks like on the PBC side. That would concern me if I was Ryan Garcia. As I sit there and you know, Ryan gets antsy. Like Ryan, as soon as that fight against Fortuna was over, one of the first things he said was I'll be back in December no matter what. Like he wanted to be back, you know, quickly.

And the last thing you want to see is Ryan Garcia looking around in March going, all right, this tank fight's not going to happen on the timeline I wanted. You know, it'll be almost a year since I fought when I finally do get back in the ring. That would concern me if I was Ryan. But there, look, the arguments can be made. That's a great. That's a great point. I just don't think Ryan Garcia is looking into that deep.

I don't think another point you made about, you know, his court issue. I don't think Ryan is thinking about that. Ryan is just saying, I want to fight this guy. This guy has already agreed to fight me. I'm waiting to fight him and that's it. And that's, and look, from what I hear, like, there are, you know, dates secured, venue secured for Garcia against Tank. They're still looking at April.

But again, when I saw that Spence tweet, I'm like, all right, Spence Thurman's a pay-per-view. Like, that's a pay-per-view, no doubt about it. I find it unlikely that we'd see two paper views done by PBC and the same. They've done that. They've done that before. In the same month? Yeah, they did.

I believe it was last year or 2021. If they did, they don't like to. If they did they don't like to because it's two, it's the way, the way people look at. It's like, you know, it's two pay cycles, right? You're not, you know, you're paying a cable bill that's, you know, plus 75. You don't want to do it once. Once per month, once per cycle. That's usually the optimistic way.

But I'm curious. Like, I just, I wonder what Ryan's. thinking right now is all this is kind of playing on front of it. All right, two quick things for you. I'm under an obligation to talk about Demetrius Andrei because I always talk about Demetrius Andrade. He is back. Yeah, a humbling event for him coming up.

Former middleweight champions been off for well over a year. He is going to be, I believe, what the pay-per-view opener on Tank versus Hector Garcia. He's going to fight to Maun Nicholson. That's a 10-round fight. He's fighting at 168. He's in his mid-30s and he's done some interviews where he's saying a lot of lot of the things we heard him say when he was the middleweight champion. Like I want Jamal Charlo, I want the biggest fights, I want all the top guys in my era.

This will be his first fight fighting on the BBC side of the street. I'm told there is, you know, talks of having him fight more fights on the BBC side. Barack will ask you this first. Is this the year that Demetrius Andrade gets a big fight? Because one of the wildest facttoids about Demetrius Andrade is that he has, has never faced a current or former champion. That's wild. He was the middleweight title holder for about three years,

and he has never faced a current or former champion. Is this the year that he gets what he wants? I really do think so. I really do think so, and I hope so, because I love the guy. I think this was a smart move going to PBC. It seems a little late, but then you got, like you mentioned before, we got Plant, we got Benavides. Maybe he can look good against Nichols,

and actually get the win of that. Maybe he's not ready for that, according to on paper. I don't know. But he is a two-division champ already. He is undefeated. I'd love to see him fight the winner of one of those two guys. He's even calling out Benavides.

He's calling him Benavides, you know, but he's even calling out these guys as well. And I like that. But yes, he is that same guy that was calling out guys at 154, 160, and now 168, it haven't gotten those fights. But if he's not ready for any of those guys, now he's never,

I don't mean skillfully. He's been third. He's been ready. I'm just talking about on paper. No, that's what I'm saying. He's been ready for big fights. And I feel, I feel bad for what he's had to deal with over the years,

wanting the big fights. And, you know, and also, I consider the promoters that dealing with, you know, maybe the draw is weak there and he's wanting a certain amount of money. I mean, you have to, you have to consider that as well. This is the business at the end of the day.

And he wants to prove himself against those big opponents and having had the chance. But I think he's on the side now where there's a lot of guys there like Barack mentioned at 68. And you have Charlie that talked about more. Jamal Charlo talked about moving up 168. There's a lot of history between those guys. There's no excuses why that fight can't be made.

So I do think he fights a big name and gets an opportunity to prove himself. Is it too late? Is he past that youthful prime? We don't know. We'll know once he faces one of those guys. I think, and look, you guys, everybody knows I would love to see it. I've been calling for it for three years now. I think one of the obstacles he may run into

is that PBC is probably going to make another run of Canello in 2023 to try to get him on a multi-fight deal. And I think the offer is going to be largely the same. To fight Jamal Charlo, to fight David Benavides or Kayla Plant, if Plank can pull off what I would call an upset if he can beat Benavides. And if that's in play, because I do think that, I think there's some momentum to do Canello against John Ryder.

Canello has talked about it doesn't really want an exceptionally tough fight. No disrespect to Ryder, but that's kind of a come off an injury type of fight, the kind of fight that Canello frankly has earned, given the kind of fights he's taken in his career. But if that kind of fights in play for September, October, and then into 2024, like, I don't think guys are going to take a chance on Demetrius Andrade. I don't see Jermal Charlo running into an Andrade fight in the first six months of 2023. I don't see, you know, the winner of Benavides plant in March taking on Andrade before we know what Canelo is going to do. The best thing that could happen, you know, for Andrade is if Canello says, you know what, I really, really, really want that Bevo rematch at some time in the fall.

And that frees up some of the guys in the PBC universe to potentially fight him. But, you know, I don't think a BBO rematch is. I don't know that a Bble rematch, though, a BVO rematch is tough economically. Like, there's a lot of money that those guys are going to want to fight each other again. You know, both those guys the second time around. I think that's where we step in, you know, because now that I hate that there's sides of the street that is so ridiculous. But anyway, now that he is, and I'm talking about Demetri's Andrew on that other side of the street, now if these fights don't happen, we can start talking about, okay, why aren't you fighting him? We can say to these guys, why aren't you fighting them?

Listen, plant winner news can fight him. David Morel can fight him. These are great fights, you know? So now there's no issue. Now you're going to look bad. Now PBC will look bad if those fighters that you're named earlier won't fight Dmitri's entry. And I'm pretty sure that, you know, him fighting on PBC now, there had to be conversations there.

There had to be some things, if not promised to him, but, you know, some things to look forward to because I'm pretty sure he's saying, I want these fights, you know, let's do this 10-rounder, but, you know, give me something here. And I think that Al is going to give him something eventually, especially if he looks entertaining in his fight against him. I mean, look, if you just take it, look at it in a vacuum, there's no reason that Andrade versus Charlo shouldn't happen in, like, April. Like if, if Andrade gets through a Nicholson fight without any kind of injury,

then why shouldn't it be? I mean, I don't think it'll happen because I don't think that after being off for 18 months, 19 months, that Charlo's going to look to jump into an Andrade fight, especially not at 168, but that's a fight that makes sense. It's easy to make right now. You're both operating in the same universe. I think it makes sense because, first of all, Andrews is not a 168-pound fighter anyway.

They're both big guys who can operate at 168, but they're both 160-pound fighters, you know, not most of their career, but a majority of their career. So you're not really fighting 100. It's like when Connollo moved up to 168 and for Billy Joe Sanders. He ain't really fighting a 168-pounder, not in that particular fight.

No, I agree. Look, as much as anyone, I hope Demetrius Andrea gets those big fights next year. Last thing, you guys do a weekly conversation with Eddie Hearn. It always makes news on the DeZone Boxing show. Eddie Heard laid out a plan for Anthony Joshua. He's done this a couple of times. But this was like a concrete plan, he says, what he wants to work with in Anthony Josh,

which is take some kind of comeback fight in April against the top 15-ish type of guy, go into a Dillion-White fight. And then a big one. against Deonti Wilder before the end of the year. Ack, do you like the plan? And do you think the plan is likely to play out? Well, he did say that, look, the Wilder fight can happen maybe before the end of the year.

Maybe that can be the second fight of the year. He wants Joshua to go out three times in 2023. I think that the plan can happen. I mean, I had a conversation with Finkel, you know, just in passing. And it seems like, you know, that relationship is, well, at least them dealing with each other to make this fight is, it's looking a lot better. So I think Wilder and Joshua happens in 2023. Now, as far as it, I wish Eddie would throw some more names out there as far as saying the top 15. I think AJ will fight whoever.

Dilling white fight, there's history there. That makes sense. It doesn't excite me that fight. But because of the history and how competitive the first fight was until Joshua knocked them out, I guess we'll give AJ that. All right, go out there in London, fight your rival, score a big, I'm not trying to discredit, you know, White here, but I just don't think he can beat AJ. And I think, yeah, let's jump in to the wilder fight right away.

I mean, who else does he fight after beating Adilien White leading up to a wilder fight at the end of the year? Yeah, but, I mean, the man just lost twice. The man kind of struggled with confidence. can we give them some confidence builders? You know, can we? Well, that's what I said. I like the Dillion White fight.

I mean, that's not probably one of them. I think when Eddie says top 15, he means 15th guy, you know, and he means the he means one of the organizations are going to make him 15 that day. Are you saying that Dillian White won't would be a hard fight for Anthony Joshua? I say he should go like what Eddie says. top 15 guy, then go to a Dillion White or something like that. You let him build his confidence to even get to Dillion White. The guy just lost twice.

That's usually the normal procedure of a guy who loses once. He lost twice, you know, and then he was, he had like a breakdown in the ring afterwards. He's like, yo, he's pissed off at himself. He needs that. So I say, don't throw him in there, Wilder. You know, Wilder might have lost a couple of times, but he's super kind of. While the loss twice, too, there was stopped twice. And look where he fought.

I mean, he just, he's just coming off a big window. And look where he fought. He fought one of the top 15 guys. Which was a perfect, I mean, that Robert Hellennings was perfect for a while because he was credible given the Kovnazki wins. But we all knew coming in that he didn't have a lot left. That's exactly the type of guy Eddie needs. He needs someone with some credibility coming off at least one reasonable win, but also not

exceptionally dangerous. Those guys are hard to come by. I mean, I'm thinking like, you could even do, that might even be too dangerous for him. I don't know. I mean, like, it's. Who's that? Jayley Zhang. Jayley Zhang.

And he's coming off the loss, too. So it's tough. I still think Eddie wants to get Jayley Zhang a couple of wins to do a Joshua fight in Macau or somewhere in Beijing. Like, I still think that's part of the plan. But like, you look at you like, you almost wish Charles Martin was more active after the loss to Luis Ortiz. Like, rematch. Charles Martin. It was a good loss.

Yeah. I mean, I like that for Joshua, I like Lewis Ortiz, and I know he's older, but look, he gave a good effort in the Ruiz fight, you know, ended that fight strong. I think it was competitive, and he's older, but I like that fight because it's still an older guy who has skills and has power. I would, I would shoot for that guy if I could if I was Eddie. I'm not a promoter, but I like that fight to start off. The name is big, and I just don't think he would, I don't think that he can beat Joshua. I don't think he'll hurt Joshua. I think he's well past his prime.

So there was a top name that I would pick with... I feel like he doesn't need a name for this particular first fight. Yeah, I agree. No, but why not? He does it, but why not? Would it hurt if he had a name? No, because that's a potential loss. So you figure...

No, I don't see it. I don't see it. I think you got to be... If he doesn't need a name, then why do it? Why not? No, the question is why do it? Because he doesn't need it, so why do it? Because it looks...

because it looks good. Hey, I'm coming off of two losses, but guess what? I'm hopping right back in January, February, against the Lewis Ortiz. And you know what? Scores a big knockout. He's back up there. You're right. You're also trying to sell a pay-per-view, too, in the UK.

And like Joshua sells a lot all in his own. People go to see him fight, no matter who he fights. No matter who he does. I do think if you want to do a decent number on pay-per-view, you've got to have somebody with a level of credibility. Again, I don't know who that is because those guys are not easy to find. the Robert Holeneas situation just was absolutely perfect for PBC. Absolutely perfect how that situation developed.

I mean, not for pay-per-view. No, no, you're right. But, like, you know, yeah, I did not do. Just as an opponent. Yeah, but, yeah, yeah, again, no, it's a good point, Hock. You know, you try to sell a paper view. You didn't. Although, pay-per-views nowadays are just exceptionally difficult to sell at a high level.

But, look, I actually decide more Baragra on this one. Like, you just, you want to get him a win, and you want to get him a knockout, and you want to get him working with a new trainer, and you want to just get him, in motion in a positive way again. Like, to make that happen. And pay-per-view was 25 pounds.

You know, it's not something crazy. So true. All right, so Lewis-Sortez wouldn't be a paper-view fight for Joshua in London? Every fight is a paper-view fight for Joshua. It would be. I understand Barack, anybody, but Lewis-R-T is a known name in a head-to-weight division. So I think that would be better. It wouldn't be.

I'm not. Nobody's arguing you. You're right. I'm just saying it's just the danger level. That's not the guy you go. into after fighting two guys, losing two guys. I love the, I love the emails I get, you know, once every couple of months that Otto Walene is available, ready to fighting a guy, Josh.

And that name is always thrown out there. That's a good fighter. He's a good fighter. He might almost be too dangerous, though. Like, Walene, it's almost. I would say he's more dangerous than Louis Ortiz, to be honest with you. He might be. He might be.

He's fine. Left-handed. You know, he's good. Ortiz looked a little punchy in that Ruiz fight. Exactly. His chin did not look great. You guys were terrific. As always, check out Ack and Barak weekdays on DeZone, the DeZone app, Dazin.com as well.

Appreciate the conversation, guys. Thanks for joining me. As always. Our pleasure, thank you, Chris. Take it easy. And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast. Podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking to get more of the NBA this season, well, now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook, because new customers get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win.

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So don't miss the chance to get your no sweat first bet up to $1,000 in free bets when you join Fandul with promo code boxing. Make every moment more with Fandul an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fondel. Fan duel. This week, the big fight is in D.C. Jervante Davis, Hector Luis Garcia, 135 pounds, Showtime pay-per-view, huge event coming up this Saturday in D.C. The line, predictably, big in favor of Gervante Davis. Right now, Gervante is at minus 1450 to win, according to Fandul. Hector Luis Garcia at plus 770. I'm not going to tell you not to bet on Gervante Davis here. is the more natural 135 pounder.

He is the bigger puncher. But as I said during the podcast, I feel like Hector Luis Garcia is being underestimated. He's undefeated. He's coming off the best year of his career. He's got a great trainer behind him. He's going to come in with a great game plan. This is his Super Bowl.

I want to bet on Hector-Louis Garcia so bad. The safe bet here is Jervante Davis. It probably ends with Jervante picking up a stoppage in the second round of this fight. But get a little money to float out there. I'd put a little bit of money on Hector-Luis-Carsia. But my official pick is Jervante Davis plus 14-50, minus 14-50, I should say, to win this fight. Method of victory, Jervante heavily favored still to win by knockout minus 3.30, according to Fandu. I think that's the way he wins.

I actually think if this goes to a decision. decision. Hector Luis Garcia has a good chance of winning it, but he fights a little bit too upright for me. He leaves that chin exposed a little bit too often. I think Gervantes is eventually going to catch it. I think he wins this fight by knockout. Those are my picks. And if you want to beth, Hector Luis Garcia, I'm not going to discourage you putting a little bit of money on there. But those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Ack and Barak for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast. podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts.

And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor it? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean.

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