The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The latest with Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Chris is joined by Yahoo! Sports combat sports writer, Kevin Iole to breakdown the latest with Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia, should the blame for the fight being in doubt be on Tank, Ryan, or the promotional teams, and who would be the best person to fight Francis Ngannou? Later, Chris talks with O'Shaquie Foster about his upcoming fight with Ray Vargas. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right. A lot to unpack this week to assist me on this week's episode. Kevin Ioli, senior writer, combat sports writer, boxing rider, MMA writer over at Yahoo Sports.

Kevin, what's up, man? How are you? It's a busy week, for sure, when you blend, you know, the, it seems like, bi-annual crazy contract talks in boxing with the NBA trade deadline. When they kind of blend together, it makes for a lot of going on there. But a lot of fun, a lot of fun. But I do want to talk first about this, this Ryan Garcia. Tank Davis situation. I did a brief podcast on this on, God, you know, what day it is anymore,

Tuesday, I think. And I just talked about kind of where we are. And where we stand right now still, as we record this late on Thursday, is that there is still no deal, no sign deal for Ryan Garcia to face Tank Davis. And that is entirely due to a rematch clause that Golden Boy said it never agreed to. not specifically with the terms of the rematch. Those are fine with both sides. Percentage splits, all that, how they change if Ryan Garcia were to win. But being the lead promoter, which is something Golden Boy is insisting on, and which as the lead promoter, they would be able to use their own broadcast partner,

that being to zone, as the primary pay-per-view provider. PBC is pushing back, Showtime is pushing back, and they are saying, no, no, no, it's the same as it would be for the first fight. So before we get into some details on all this, give me your take from everything you've seen, heard, read, reported on over this past week involving Ryan Garcia at Tag Davis. This is all Oscar D. LaHoyer, right? And I mean, he's just, I can feed him to shut his mouth and let the negotiations play out. But, you know, if you follow Oscar social media feed, the fight's on, we're ready to go.

the fight's off, we need this, we need, he's setting artificial deadlines. I mean, I blame this all on Oscar, right? Now, one thing I'll agree with Stephen Espinoza on, he said, I think, to Marcos Villegas in an interview, that it's not uncommon for fights not to be actually signed until the week of the fight. That was the case of Mayweather Pacquiao. You know, they had that, you know, a huge press tour around the world. They didn't sign the contract until they were in Las Vegas the week of the fight. You agree to the terms, but the problem is, you know, did they agree to the, terms or did they not because oscar said they did like we don't have the pbc out there talking we just have oscar doing all the talking and um i think he just created he puts a perception on his sport

he thinks he's doing good by saying we're trying to make these big fights but what he's doing is he's just making boxing look stupid by saying hey we have an agreement oh no we don't we're close we're not close now he's bringing up regis pro gray i mean i think if you if oscar would shut his mouth and not put an announcement out until a fight was agreed to officially by everybody, then you have a deal. But like I wrote on my column a couple weeks ago, the fighters basically agreed to all these terms in November. And now all of a sudden, things changing?

Well, so the fighters definitely agreed to all the terms. And to be clear, none of the terms of this fight are changing. This is strictly a issue between promoters and networks. That's all it amounts to. Tank Davis won't lose a nickel in these negotiations. Ryan Garcia is not really between the networks. It's really the promoter. Well, it is, but it is between the networks at this point.

Because if Golden Boy gets their way, a rematch would be on his own pay-per-view. If BBC gets its way, a rematch would be on Showtime pay-per-view. What I said on Tuesday remains true today. Nobody has shown me or even indicated that exists any kind of paperwork that shows that Golden Boy agreed to allow BBC and Showtime to be the lead promoter. Similarly, there is not any paperwork that says PBS or Showtime agreed to let Golden Boy and DeZone take the lead on a rematch. This feels like Kevin, and this is more kind of my interpretation of everything,

but this feels like both sides kind of assumed that they were going to get their way. Golden Boy assumed that, well, Ryan Garcia wins a spectacular, wins by spectacular knockout. Of course, we become the A side. We will put on the show. Whereas PBC says, well, look, Tank Davis is a bigger star than Ryan Garcia. When it comes to these negotiations, we're going to control everything in all this. It just seems like this was not appropriately discussed before the contracts came. And once the contracts came, that's when Golden Boy said, no, no, no, no.

red line right through this, we're not ultimately doing it. That's the way it feels to me at the moment. I just look at it. I go, it makes sense. I agree with Oscar from the standpoint. It makes sense. Whoever wins the fight, your network gets to promote and put on the next fight. I mean, that just makes the most sense.

But even in Oscar's history, right, if you remember, I covered the Trinidad Di La Jolla fight, which, you know, it was called the fight of the millennium. I mean, that was a big fight at the time, right? Why do we have to think everything, why do we have to think, put everything in such broad terms. I remember being at SI when Delahoya versus Mayweather was the fight to save boxing. And I wrote a column about your lead, your cover on that. Yeah.

No, I mean, it's ridiculous, right? That was, but the point was that was a massive fight at the time. And after Trinidad won, you know, Don King held a press conference the next day at the Las Vegas Hilton. And he's like, flip the deal, flip the deal. And just wanted, you know, all the terms that DeLoha had to go to Trinidad and vice versa. And Oscar was like, no, no, no, this is, I'm the A side. You know, so now when you look at it from that standpoint, Chris, it's like he forgot what his personal history was, right?

You know, and they, they never did rematch because of that specific thing. But I think cooler heads prevail here. I think it's too big of a fight and it's too, they're going to look like, I mean, hey, this is boxing, so, but they're going to look like total jackasses if they don't get this done, especially Oscar. You know, at least Al Heyman hasn't been out there or Tom Brown hasn't been out there. talking about what's going to go on. But I think Oscars, you know, all these deadlines and it's on, it's off, he's going to look like a fool.

And I think that, you know, everybody involved in this thing, I think will get it done, right? I think it's, you know, they're trying to use leverage and both sides are trying to do that. And it's the boxing way and it's one of the reasons why boxing is such a wonderful sport, Chris. And when you have great fights like this, you leave a lot. with an exhilarated feeling, but we have all this freaking nonsense that's put on by people outside the, outside the ring that just makes you get sick of it. Yeah, there's a lot of gamesmanship going on at the moment. BBC and Showtime people are trying to pit Garcia against Golden Boy, not hard to do,

by the way, given their recent history. People trying to, I'm getting text messages about trying to get Ask Ryan trending on Twitter. Like, you know, come on. It's just stupid. My take on this, Kevin, just my opinion here. And again, I know I broadcast for DeZone. If you want to think I'm swayed by that, fine. I'm not.

But PBC and Showtime got everything they wanted in this version of the fight, of the fight. Everything. Quite literally, everything. Tank Davis is getting the lion's share of the split. BBC, Tom Brown, lead promoters. Showtime, they are the broadcaster. The zone gets some distribution rights, a little bit of money, but Showtime is the broadcaster. If Ryan Garcia wins by knockout or wins anyway and Tank Davis wants a rematch,

Golden Boy should get something out of that. Golden Boy should be able to be the lead pro. I don't know why this is so complicated. And I think deep down, deep down is a little bit wrong phrase, but I do think that people inside Showtime and probably some people in the PBC world know that. Like they know that. I understand, Ryan Garcia cannot be treated like he's Andy Ruiz. Ryan Garcia can't be treated like a typical B-side where you do everything.

Ryan Garcia, look, he's in his next fight, if it's not Tank Davis, he's not going to make $8 million, $9 million, whatever it is Tank Davis makes whenever he fights, but probably get three or four. Like, he's not going to be fighting for $600,000 or less in the next fight. And so it's not like he doesn't have the ability to make a lot of money and make big fights. He wants this fight badly. And you can tell he's out there on social media saying, tank, stop hiding behind Ale Heyman, no rematch clause, whatever. But he will be able to fall back on lucrative opportunities.

And in fact, well, pro gray being one, but I'm sure there are others out there as well. I see I look at this as being something tank Davis could solve immediately all tank davis has to do is tell al haman or tell tom brown or tell people at showtime either take out the rematch clause or I don't give a damn about who shows the rematch because why should the why should the fighters care right they don't they don't but this is like the thing like also if you're tank davis What do you, you have got to be incredibly confident going into a fight against Ryan Garcia. You're going to be the favorite. Like, what do you care about the broadcaster for a rematch that most likely will not happen?

Like, if Tank Davis... Unless he really doesn't like you. I think he shouldn't have to worry about it, right? 100%. Yeah. I mean, if you're Tank Davis, you're going into this fight, think you're going to win. And I said this the other day. A rematch clause in this particular instance is completely unenforceable.

Like, there's nothing. you can do all Ryan Garcia would have to do in order to not take a rematch is to be like, look, it's contracted at 136 or 137. I can't make that weight anymore. So I'll do the rematch, but it's got to be up at 140 pounds, which I can make in a healthy way. There's no belts on the line here. Like you can't sue a guy for not being able to make a certain weight. People have tried to compare this to Devin Haney and George Cambosis.

Two things are different. One, the broadcast partner was the same. for Devin Haney and Cambos. There was no issue when it comes to promotional or broadcast partner. Lou DeBella and Top Rank worked hand in hand on all this, no issue whatsoever. And there were belts on the line. So Cambosis got that rematch clause put in, in part because he wanted to make more money. And in part because it protected him and sort of forced Devin Haney to take a rematch in order to keep those belts.

And we know that Devin Haney loves those belts. He defines himself right now by those belts. Haney also, and this was something that Debella, Cambosis, were wary of after the fight, Haney also could have said, look, 135 sucked. I can't make it anymore. I'm huge. I'm going to 140. 135 belts don't matter to me anymore anyway.

You can have him back. He absolutely could have done that and there would have been no financial penalty. So it's kind of the same thing with Ryan. Like I don't look at this as being a two-fight deal in, I mean, under any circumstances for Ryan Garcia. I think he's taking this fight. He's going back to 136 where he doesn't like to be anymore. And then he's up to 140, win or lose after this fight. So the rematch clause, it's almost irrelevant right now for both sides.

If you think of, you know, I wrote about this a little while ago, but one of the things I think of boxing is forget about all rematch clauses and forget about mandatories. And when I say forget about mandatories, what ends up happening is you have a fight that you want to get made. And there's a mandatory that comes up. And so one of the, you know, the WBC or the WBA or whoever it would be stops the fight that the public would want to see from happening because they want to enforce their mandatory. And I think if they just changed the rules on mandatories and said something, and I haven't given it a lot of thought recently, but say, you know, you have to fight within one year. You have to fight somebody who's ranked in the top three or the top five in one of the four organizations.

And as long as you do that, you remain our champion. Then you can get the fights that you want to have, right? And, you know, so the heavyweight, you know, everybody's excited about Fury and Usik fighting. Whoever becomes the undisputed heavyweight champion, you're going to all of a sudden have to give up some of the belts because you're going to be a mandatory, you know, under a wave of four mandatories and everybody's going to want to have their piece of the pie. But if they work together to change that and they get rid of rematches, then, unfortunately, and hey, look, let's let's say if we take a rematch clause out of Garcia-Davis fight,

what happens? if they go out there and they put on a good show, the public will demand a rematch. The public will see it again. And that's when you're going to do business. If you have a mandatory rematch, like happening, and I understand why it happened in Haney, Cambosis, the public could care less about that second fight, right? Haney showed him the first fight. He was the way better fighter.

Nobody cared about seeing the rematch again. Everybody knew Cambosis had zero shot to win that, but they went through that exercise again because of a moronic rematch clause. Now, I understand why it was held because it helped Luda Bella and it helped George Cambosis. But I think, you know, a large part in boxing, if you just get rid of that stuff, you're going to have a better sport. And you're going to get the better fights made more often. And you'll be able to, you'll be able to grow the business. And I think that's what we need to see, Chris.

We need to see the business grow and not have this bickering. And that, you know, that's why I said, hey, I tend to agree that Oscar has an argument about, you know, if Ryan and went. But Oscars yapping all the time just puts himself in this position. If this was behind closed doors the entire time, I'll bet you it would be done right now. Maybe, although both sides, you know, behind closed doors seem pretty entrenched in this position to the point where I am very pessimistic at the moment that this fight actually happens. I don't believe, and I said this on Tuesday, that Golden Boy would pivot to Regis Pro Gray in April. That is just, I think that's too tough a fight to just transitioned to after Ryan Garcia's been off since July and he's been focused on fighting

Tank Davis. I don't think that's going to happen, but I do think they'll get him back out April 15th one way or the other and move on right now. That's why I think this, this fight, it's not lip service. I think this fight is in this. Chris, and here's one thing to say this. It let's take what to me is the worst case scenario when they move on from, from Tank Davis. Disaster. And he has the opportunity with Progray. And he moves on from that. Ryan loses his bully pulpit, right? Because right now he's out there. I want to fight.

I don't want to rematch. I believe in myself. I can beat Tank Davis. Now, if he then turns around and says, and use the argument that you just made, hey, I haven't fought since last July, Regis pro gray as too tough of an opponent, all of a sudden, you're losing that, you know,

hey, I have the moral high ground here. I'm willing to fight. We've agreed to a deal. Let's go. And I think he loses that. And he hasn't had the big win. Hey, you know what? You can debate Tank Davis.

resume and I don't think Tank Davis has been challenged, you know, significantly in his career, but he has a lot more significant, you know, fights or tougher fights than Ryan has, right? I believe in Ryan Garcia as a fighter. I think he's a tremendous talent. I think he can do a lot of things. But I think, you know, you have to look and say, Tank has, this is not often in the high end of these fighters, Tank has faced a better opposition. I don't know.

I don't know about that. I don't know if I agree with that. I think it's, well, look. But who is he facing? Well, look, it's, first of all, he's four years younger than Tank, so he hasn't had as many opportunities over his career. But that's not a matter. Who is he fought? I would put Luke Campbell up there against Tank's best win, which was what, 130-pound title fight.

Medraza. Right, which is a very good win, and he dominated one by knockout. But since then, since then, it hasn't been, he's been like a double-digit favorite in most of his fights. I know I agree with that so I said that I prefaced my comment by saying that he fought you know Mayweather promotions why I don't want to say Mayweather promotion I want to say TBC you know Al Heyman they they protected him and they gave him you know and from a you know business standpoint if it was you or I and we'd say hey let's take the easier job for the most money duh yeah that's what we're going to do and he made a ton of money ton of money in the last few years he's done incredibly well

but you're in a professional sport where it's entertainment and you're trying you know and that it's a slightly different, you know, if you're a sports writer or you're a mechanic or, well, you're going to take the job that pays you the most money for the least amount of work. But if you want to create a legacy for yourself, and maybe he doesn't, you know, as an athlete, then that you have to seek out those fights. So, but in any event, I just think that Ryan, you know, loses if he, if he would pass on a tank, I mean, on a, uh, both tank Davis and then on, uh, region. I would agree. It would be a tough, I just think that's what go.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I think that's what Golden Boy would do. I do not believe they would put him in with Regis Progray in April. I think, look, clearly Golden Boy is trying to protect its television partner, which it has, the television part has invested a lot of money. So isn't Al Heyman. He's trying to protect his relationship with his television partner, which is right now the only game in town for BBC. Like Fox is out.

Showtime is still in. They are the provider of PBS. fights. They pay these guys a lot of money. So he's trying to protect that relationship. Both these promoters are trying to do the exact same thing. I get it. So I just think the reason I sway, the reason I understand where Golden Boy is coming from is

the only, Ryan doesn't have a rematch clause. It's just tank. The only way that fight would be at the point where it would be forced to rematch is if Ryan wins and probably does something spectacular, in which case, he goes way up there. He skyrockets after that because he's already a star. He would become a huge star if he's able to beat Tank Davis.

Well, there's three things, Chris, that you can look at it with a Ryan win, you know, that he wins the fight by decision, but people disagree with the decision. It was, you know, kind of a fight, right? He could win by early knockout, which you think would zoom him up. But I think if he went by, you know, you just land one punch and you get him, you know, people say, hey, tank got caught, you know, he didn't really prove it, right? But if he goes and he comprehensively beats him, he's the head on the score, cards after seven, eight rounds, and he stops him with a big shot in the, you know, in the ninth,

something like that. So all three of those scenarios are different and play out differently for Ryan Garcia going forward. Yeah. Look, we discussed this right at the top. I think the simplest solution is take out the rematch clause. And if it's a tremendous fight, the public is going to demand the rematch anyway. And we know they've already agreed to certain splits.

So we know it wouldn't be that hard to cobble back together for now with only what, two months away from the fight date. forget about it. Take it out. Let's move on and let's get this fight ultimately done. All right. Let's talk about Ganadi Golofkin, whose career path right now, Kevin, is very much unclear. Gaddae Golofkin back in September lost at 168 to Canelo Alvarez. After the fight, he said, I'll be back. I'm coming back down to 160. I've still got, he said three titles, but he really has two major ones. And I'm going to be back next year. Since then, we have not heard anything from Gennady Gailofkin.

Until this week, when it was learned that Gannati intends to or has dropped his IBF title in an effort to not be forced into a fight with Falcoa, who is the number one contender for that belt at 160. I understand why. There's no real money in it. Why would you want to do it? But now Golochkin is faced with another mandatory, with the WBA ordering a purse big. for his mandatory title defense against Eris Lendi Lara, who is the secondary title holder at WBA,

which Kevin presents the exact same problem. Like, Arislandi Lara... Yeah, Eris Lendi Lara is a more known commodity, but there's no real money in it for Golofkin. It's the kind of fight that dies if it's put on pay-per-view. So I'm struggling to understand what his options are. I've talked to some people that know him in the last couple of days. I've heard the plan is tentatively to have him return at some point this summer.

But if he's not going to fight Lara, he's going to return this summer as a zero belt title holder, which again, if you're Ganadi Galafkin, it's not the biggest deal in the world. You're Ganadi Galafkin. People want to see you fight. They don't necessarily care about what titles you have. But I'm a little confused at the moment, Kevin, about what Ganadi's doing here. It's going to be 41 years old in April. He says he wants to continue.

I think there's still a market for him to continue. He didn't embarrass himself against Canelo Alvarez. And, you know, he was the unified champion at 160 just a couple of days ago. But do you, what's your take? And how do you interpret Ganadi's moves over the last couple of days and what his future might hold? Well, I think ever since he changed his team, right, you know, his, you can question his career, right? I mean, you know, he went through all those, you know, fights at Middaway before Canello. I mean, he should have been after Canello right away, but he wanted to keep the middleway

titles, you know, what did he do, Zerometa, and I forget the order of the fights that he did. But, you know, he did some bad fights and, you know, he's, you go back other than the recent Canello fight, look who he fought over the last four years. I mean, nobody's, right? Really nobody's. And I don't understand what, you know, they are thinking in terms of how they want to push him. Now, is there any big name out there that would, you know, other than Charlo, right, that would have made big sense for him over that period of time? But I just think that, you know,

his new, quote unquote, new team hasn't done him any favors. And I don't think he sent himself any favors. And I think to me, the best for Golofkin is forget, especially when you got a WBA belt, right, especially a WBA bell. Forget about it. Like, you know, you're people are going to think you're a world champion. You're a future Hall of Fame fighter. I don't think. if there's any question about that, go out there and find an entertaining fight that people are going to want to see and that they're going to like.

And hey, let's do it, right? And I think that that's something that, you know, would make a heck of a lot of sense. And,

you know, what is that, like, what is that fight? Because Golden Boys, let me just say real quick. Golden boys reached out about Mungia, multiple times.

Forget about McGee. But they've tried to make that fight. And at least that has, that could potentially be entertaining. Who is McGee a fight? I don't disagree. But like, I think that would have some entertainment value.

There's some money in it and there's a story, right? You know, 2018, Mungia was rejected. Here he comes, former champ at 154, whatever. I'm not saying it's a great fight, but there's a story there. Jamal Charlo also has reached out his camp about fighting, Ghanadi Golofkin. Like that, that's actually an intriguing fight if Charlo can get down to 160 for that fight. Other than that, I mean, do you have other ideas? I don't see what happened.

I was going to throw a name at you. It's kind of crazy, but you got to listen to it, and I think it would make sense. Earl Spence. If the fight with Crawford does not get made, Spence is a big guy. And I think Spence could fit, you know, if he came in at 158, right, Gannati's never been the biggest middleweight. You know, I think Spence is a good fighting. Now you're talking, you're fighting one of the elite fighters in the world,

and we'll see what Gannady Galefkin has next. And I think that would be a lot of interest in that fight because you would have it. Hey, can Erl Spence handle the power of a guy that's proven to be a knockout artist in middleweight? And on the other hand, you know, can Gennati Gullofkin still compete with the elite fighters who were in their prime. There's a lot of questions that would be in a fight like that. So if they don't get the Crawford fight done,

I think that gives, you know, Errol Spence a really good fight, you know, and I, to me, like, that is a kind of opponent and that's the outside the box thinking you've got to, you know, go with. To me, like there's, hey, if he, if he fought Erislondi, Laura, you know, Laura had a good, you look good in his last fight,

but, I mean, who was, you know, who was the opposition, right? And so you have to just sit here and say, the public is not going to really be that excited about an Erislandi-Lara fight. And is Gailovkin going to take, you know, short money when he's running out of fights, right? I don't know that he's going to do that. So to me, think outside the box and look, like I mentioned Charlo at the top when we first started talking about this. And I think that's certainly a viable opponent for him.

But if he can't get Charlo, I think Errol Spence presents an interesting option that, and I think that would be something if Spence had, you know, how to present it to him. He might be interesting. Well, look, maybe it's not Jamal Charlo. Maybe it's Jermel Charlo. Ramele comes up from 154, and his first fight takes on Gannada Gilofkin and what could be kind of a king-making performance for Jermal Chal. Those are interesting options. I just like I'm going to continue to believe that Errol Spence is targeting Keith Thurman in May.

That seems to be the way it's trending, at least, in terms of where it's going. Jermal Chalo is out for the next month or so, at least while he overcomes that hand injury. Then he has to decide if he's going to stay at 154 and fight the winner of Tim Zoo against Tony Harrison. I just don't know what, like, in the next five months, what does Ghanady Gailovkin do at this point? I don't know. I don't know where he goes and what he wants to do. And the clock is ticking. Like, 41 is 41.

You know, father time catches up to everybody. At some point, he's going to have to decide if he wants to fight or if he wants to just kind of sit out and hope a big money opportunity comes in the second half of the year. Now, you know, you look at Gannady, Chris, and over his career, he's been a big draw when he's been a strong, side, right? When he was the B side, some of these guys, he did really good numbers, but he's never been a big draw as the A side, right? So, you know, he's gone out there. And I think, you know, you go from that Steve Rolls fight forward. And they've picked the incorrect opponent almost every single time, right? I think they've made a lot of mistakes on who they've picked. And so he, it's boxed him in. He's like stuck in a corner right now. And, you know, and he has expectations. He's

saying, hey, I made X, Y, and Z to fight, you know, these guys now, why, of a sudden am I not getting it? And I think, you know, that this is a guy. And you've got to blame him, too. I mean, he's the one that put this team together and brought Alina involved and the whole nine yards and the new group that's running things for him. But I think that, you know, Gannadi is a guy that still has some star power that people want to see. But they don't want to see him fighting mandatories and they don't want to see him fighting, you know, sea level opposition. And there's not a lot of A level opposition out there. It's not 2013. He's not just breaking in. into the U.S. boxing scene where fights against guys like Proxa and Daniel Geel and Curtis Stevens

are interesting at this point. And he also has significant pay expectations because whatever he thought about that recent TV deal he had, it paid him a lot of money. He made a lot of money to fight over in Japan against Ryota Marada. He made a ton of money to fight Canelo Alvarez in the third fight. there's a fraction of that out there right now for some of these fights, a fraction of it. So he's got to look for that big money fight. Maybe PBC can put together a Jamel Charlo or a Jamal Charlo fight. Maybe Golden Boy can get to zone interested in Golofkin against Mungia.

I don't know, but it's very tough to see how he moves forward as a middleweight champion, at least. Because the WBA, what they always change their mind, I know. They're not the most reliable organization for sure. But if they're going to follow through on this purse bid, well, that's what it is. He's going to have to decide. You know, the problem with Mungia to me is like four years ago, I liked that fight. I was pushing, you know, not when it was rejected by the Nevada Athletic Commission, but right after that. You know, hey, Mungia looked like a good prospect and a guy.

But they had, you know, you talk about a protected fighter. I mean, this guy is the might be the most protected high fighter in the sports. He has fought absolute stiffs. And so now it's coming back to Han him. So you've got two guys. Like, you know, if you push Mungia against him, like, you know, at one point, I would have made an argument for Mungia. Hey, this guy, you know, he deserves his opportunity. You know, he's looked good in these other fights.

Now he's up. He's making a step up fight to Kennedy Galokin. But how do I, in good conscience, reward a guy that I want to say, hey, I want to reward this guy by giving him a fight against the legend of the sport where he's going to make this huge money for fighting. and that's pretty much what he's done. Yeah, he could have fought Demetrius Andrei at any point in time over the last three years. That would have been a very good fight, a relevant fight, a middleweight title fight. He didn't do it. Had some bad luck last year to a certain degree in that the Jamal-Charlo fight got blown up

when those negotiations were going on. And not that Shane Mosley Jr. would have been a great fight, but Mosley Jr. No, but it would have been better than some of the guys he fought that he did wind up fighting, you know, last year, who were just complete walkovers. I'm with you completely. Mungia has to face somebody relevant. I've talked about this at length, so I don't need to go back into it, but they are interested in a B-Vos fight.

I don't know if that's able to be cobbled together in the next month or so, but that would be interesting. But Golochkin, to me, would be the most interesting money fight for both guys. Right. And we'll see if Gnadi Gavkin wants to do something like that. All right, a couple other things. I want to talk about Anthony Joshua. Back in London this week for the press conference to announce his

comeback fight against Jermaine Franklin. I have no issue with the Franklin fight. The guy's lost two fights in a row. He's been fighting at a high level for a while. If he wants to get back in, fight three times this year and have one of them be Jermaine Franklin, who acquitted himself solidly in that loss to Dillian White. Fine. Get back out there.

It's not a pay-per-view. More power to you on that one. But the question I have is can Anthony Joshua's career as an elite heavyweight be revived? He is now on his, what, third trainer in as many fights. Derek James is taking over. AJ is doing absolutely the right thing by taking his act to Texas and going down to Derek James's gym and working out there, getting out of the UK where he is an enormous celebrity

and going to Texas where nobody knows who he is. They probably- You know, what got somebody thinks he plays for the Cowboys, right? Exactly, exactly, the Texans or whoever down there. So he may, he's making the right moves. The question is, is Derek James the right guy? You've covered with Derek James, phenomenal trainer, trainer of the year a couple of years ago, at least. Trains Errol Spence, trains from El Charlo, a lot of experience.

Is he the right guy for Anthony Joshua? I love the choice. If it were me, and I wrote this in a column a while back when he chose Garcia, I think Stephen Bradman Edwards would have been the guy that I think would have been great for Anthony. Another good one, yeah. I think Derek James is a really good trainer and can get the best out of Josh. I think, you know, what we've seen from Joshua really is that is two things. You know, I'm not going to rip him for the Ussick fight because Ussick is a phenomenal boxer,

a really good boxer and a really tough guy. And so, you know, when you're a big guy that's been used to blasting out, you know, opponents and now of a sudden you've got a guy that's tricky, can move, he's got a good jab, you know, that's a tough ask, right? And, you know, and Usoc showed a lot of grit. I thought Joshua was better in the second fight than he was in the first. right, but I think the two things that AJ is missing, you know, is I think he has to rely on that jab. His jab is a power punch. And he has to have that jab like a piston. And when you think of, you know, Larry Holmes's jab. I think A.J.

could, it does have a jab like that, except that he doesn't use it that often, right? But when he throws it, it's, you know, it's an impact punch. It really makes it different. And it sets other things up for him. And then number two, I think aggression. Can Derek James bring aggression out of him? I mean, I think. I think. he tends to fight. I think he remembers that first Andy Ruiz fight, which is the worst thing in boxing. You have to have a short memory. You're a great fighter. I don't want to say he's a Hall of Famer, but a potential Hall of Famer. And you have to go out there and sit there and say, okay, I am going to find a way to win this fight and I'm going to impose my will on this guy, even though that guy's a good fighter. And so I think Derek James is going to be good at getting him to throw combinations, to create angles. I hope to get a to use that jab. So I think it's a good choice. But I think AJ can be back. I think he can be

right at the absolute top. It's going to be tough for him to beat the two guys at the top, right, in terms of Wouter and Fury because they have far better boxing skills than him. And then you look at the Deonti Wouter fight, which would be a phenomenal fight. He cannot box Deonti Wouter, but can he survive Deonti Wouter catching him on the chin? And that is an intrigue, a really intriguing fight. And, you know, I love Deonté Wilder Joshua as a potential fight. You know, I think that would be phenomenal. But I think, you know, to answer your question, I think Derek is a good choice and AJ can get back at or near the top. I think the question I have is can Derek James change AJ's mindset? You know, can he turn him back into the fighter he was before the Vladimir

Klitsko fight? Because Vladimir Klitschko and that performance changed everything. You know, it's not the Andy Ruiz fight that changed Anthony Joshua. It's going to war with Vladimir Klicho. and taking a lot of punches and getting knocked down the way he did. He wound up winning spectacularly, but I mean, others have reported this. I have reported this, but he went to his team after that fight and said, I don't want to fight this way anymore. Like, I don't want to be in these knockdown, drag out wars. And he's fought with that mindset in most fights subsequent.

So can Derek James get into the head of Anthony Joshua and say, look, I understand. It's the hit and don't get hit business for sure. But sometimes you've got to take one shot to deliver two. And that's the kind of change I'm wondering if I'm going to see with Anthony Joshua. Well, I think look at the way, you know, Derek James fighters fight, Frank, Mark, you know, and Spence. And, you know, and I think he can, right. And I think the thing is that sometimes fighters have the thing, I want to take two to land one, as opposed to, you know, land two to take one, right?

And I think Derek is going to be able to get him, I believe. to get in inside of them to say, hey, how, you know, you can do this, you can fight. You know, you may get hit, you know, back. But as long as you're landing the big shots, guys are going to be backing away from you because you have so much power. And he has to show him how much power he has. And I think if he does that, then, you know, AJ believes it in his own mind that he can, you know, these other guys are going to be afraid of his power.

And I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning. It all starts with the jab. If you are banging and firing that jab, and he's got a power jab. George Foreman had that jab, right? When George Foreman was so low as molasses, that jab hurt guys, right? You know, they saw it coming and he hurt guys.

And I think AJ is more athletic now than George was when he won the title from Michael Moore. And AJ can do better than that. I think AJ, you know, is quick. You know, for a big guy, he's really agile. And I think if he commits to that jab more than anything else, you blind somebody and you bring that right hand behind it, you know, you're going to, you have the punching power to make yourself a big factor.

Yeah, I think the plan for AJ is the right one at the moment, too. I mean, Jermaine Franklin, I don't expect him to get knocked out early the way Charles Martin did, but he's not heavy-handed, no matter what Dimitri Salita says, he doesn't have his fast hands as Andrew Ruiz. That's not the case. Andrew Rue does fast hands. Very fast hands. So I think fighting him now is smart.

I think a summertime matchup with Dillian White is smart. That's a big domestic fight. He can make a lot of money. And the Dillion White I saw against Jermaine Franklin is not the threat that he used to be. The guy's been knocked out a couple of times in the last couple of years or a few years. He's on the way out. So I think these are two fights where Anthony Josh would get that confidence back. He may say he's always confident.

I don't believe it. I think he needs to get that confidence back with two fights, two wins, and then go into the last part of this year looking at that Deonté Wilder fight. looking at a Tyson Fury fight. That would put him in a position to at least be mentally, physically, all the way there when it comes to his own skill set. All right. Last thing for you, I want to tap your MMA knowledge for a moment because the Francis

Nagano sweepstakes is white-hot right now for boxing. Sweep sticks. We'll call up that. Deonti Wilder, the latest top heavyweight to come out and say he wants a piece of Francis Nagano. Wilder has suggested a two-fight deal where I believe Wilder would get into the cage in that second fight. Not so sure about that. But now, Kevin, we've got Tyson Vury saying he wants to fight Naganu. Eddie Hearn saying he wants Noganyu for Joshua. And now Deonté Wilder saying he wants Nogne.

I've been on record saying Francis Nogneu's boxing career is a one-off. He is a one-and-done in the boxing space because you and I both know if he goes up against the top heavyweight boxer, he's done. It's not going to go well for Francis Nogneu. I don't think you'd be true of Franklin. No, I don't think so either. People have said like, why does he fight Derek Chesore at a warm-up fight? Derek Storpe beats him. That's why.

He beats him. Don't fight Derek to Saul at a warm-off fight. Yeah. Chris, I wrote a column, what, two weeks ago about this? And I looked at his options. And I, you know, so he wants to make huge money to fight in boxing. But are you going to pay him? When the Connor McGregor Mayweather fight came out, what people forget about was

Connor McGregor had sold, I think it was four or five events in a row, over a million pay-per-views. And several of them were over 1.6 million pay-per-view. views. And so that, you know, there made sense to have a fight, right? You look at what Mayweather was doing and the public wanted to see it. And from a competitive standpoint, you and I both know now and we knew before the fight that it was a joke, right, that Connor had no chance, just as if it was an MMA fight, Floyd would have had a chance, right? Conner would have dented his head and Floyd would have walked out like, you know, looking like somebody like a gargoyle or something.

And if you think that boxers, because you don't have a lot of experience, are a lot of examples of boxers in the cage. I encourage people to go back and watch James Tony fighting in Boston. I was there for that fight. Cage size was there. Oh my God, he had no chance. He got taken to the ground.

Who did he fight? Randy Couture. He got taken to the ground in like 15 seconds. And we saw one of the great heavyweights of that time. Which is what, you know, the gun who's going to do in boxing. And Nagano is a very good heavyweight, at least the top heavyweight at the time in UFC.

Like it would go disastrously for any. any boxer who gets in the cage with the top of him. Oh, 100. Yeah. I mean, Francis is a powerful hitter. But he's not going to have the kind of power that AJ has or Deontay has. You know, I don't even think he hits as hard on a regular basis as Tyson Fury does. You know, maybe he does, but I don't think so, right? So, but then you look at it and he's going to just get out box silly, right? It's not even, I mean, I think if you put the fight in the United States, let's say,

Would Andy Foster in California approve that fight? I would say probably not. Would Jeff Mullen and Nevada approve that fight? You know, Francis against one of those three guys we're talking about. I don't think they would. Well, Nevada didn't. I mean, Nevada approved Mayweather McGregor. Right, they did.

But now they learn. And also it's a different executive director now. True. And a different commission. And I think, you know, this fight has to go to the Middle East, right? I would think. Right. That's where they're going to get the kind of money.

Like Tyson Fury can't come to this. the U.S. So if it's Fury, it's going somewhere over there. And Francis thinks he's going to get the money. But look, Francis's headline is it two or three pay-per-views? I don't know if you can. He had a line of pay-per-view against Cyril Gaon. He headlined a pay-per-view against Steve-A, well, two against Deep A Miech. So he spent in three UFC pay-per-view cards, and they've all done in the 300 to 350,000 range. So who is out there? Like, MMA fans weren't buying Francis and gone-new fights in huge numbers. numbers. Boxing fans don't know who the hell he is and they know he doesn't have a chance.

So God bless him. I want to see him make the money. But who's going to pay him? So maybe there's somebody in the Middle East that's stupid and it has $40 million or $30 million to throw away and they've done it before that'll pay him that. But I just don't find it very likely, Chris. And I think if he does, like you said, I a hundred percent, I a million percent agree. It's a one and done. He's going to get destroyed. He's going to, you know, and he's what, 37 years old, 36, 37 years old. So it's not like he's got a long career here. Look, well, look, I do think the Middle East would be interested in that fight. I think the Middle East is not, and I'm talking specifically about the United Arab Emirates, and I'm talking about

Saudi Arabia. I don't get the sense that they're looking to do like live golf type events with boxing where they're doing six, seven a year. I think they're looking to do big time events. And Nagano against a top heavyweight is a big time event. So I do think the money would be there for that fight. I'd take wilder out of this because I don't, you know, PBC doesn't do fights over in the Middle East. And I don't think they have their relationships or infrastructure to necessarily do it. So if you're Nagano, you're like, after April when AJ is going to fight and presumably Tyson Vury is going to fight, you tell Frank Warren and you tell, Eddie Hearn to send in your bids.

You give, like, treat it like a purse bid. You get, you send in a piece of paper with a number on it for me to fight your guy and I'll do it. Either way, he's going to lose. Like, you can say maybe he's got a better chance against AJ because AJ's been dropped and knocked out before. Uh, whatever. He's still going to lose that fight one way or the other.

Maybe AJ knocks him out because he has a little bit more one punch power than Tyson theory. But you have to maximize this. You've got to make every nickel off this you possibly can. So say to Eddie. say to Frank, what do you got for me? I'm ready to go in August of this year. I'll fight the biggest bidder and their fighter out there.

So the question would become when that happens is, what does the A side get? So the A side is obviously going to be the boxer, whoever it is, right? And so if you're going to pay Francis, let's use the figure 30 million because I know he's used that phrase at some point in the past. If you say Francis is going to get $30 million, what are you going to be going to? to pay Tyson Fury, who, who if the fight happens would be the undisputed heavyweight champion at that point. So you're going to bring the heavyweight champion in the world into a fight against a guy who's never had a pro boxing match and you're going to pay that guy 30 million.

Tyson Fury, what is he going to? Is he going to ask for 150 million? I mean, he may, but like, I think Tyson Fury would ultimately take the maximum possible offer he would get because he knows this is easy work. Like this is the easiest payday he's ever going to get. Same thing with Anthony Joshua. He's going to make well in excess of 30, 40 million to do that fight. Just take it, man. Have an easy day at the opposite.

I think Tyson Fury would carry Nagano for a while. I think he'd have a little bit of fun with it early on because, look, as big a hitter as Nagano is in UFC, he's just not going to be that kind of puncher in boxing with bigger gloves. And he throws so wild at times, too, that, you know, Fury's going to see all. that coming. This is not a puncher's chance situation in my opinion. Yeah. And remember, see, because of MMA, because of what they have to defend and how they have that. So they have, their punches come from different angles, right? And it's not going to be the same, you know, type of

thing. And he can't set things up with kicks and he can't set things up with a threat of takedown. Like when he have a threat of a takedown, when you're fighting a guy that's a wrestler that has good boxing in MMA, that makes your boxing so much better. Francis, you know, now, you know, have that going into a so Tyson Fury or Anthony Josh with Deontay Water do not worry have to worry about getting taken down all they got to worry about is staying out of the way of his right hand and I just think he's going to be slower he's not going to be as precise and wearing like you say what is the percentage that is wearing a 10 ounce glove compared to a four ounce glove how much is that going to diminish his power that's going to diminish it quite quite quite a lot you know so I I

think that it's sad, you know, but Francis would be better off finding an MMA gig, but even then he doesn't have a lot of choice in MMA because of the two main companies that could pay. I don't think he's better off with an MMA. I think he should do this. Just go into it

knowing you're going to lose. I just But do athletes think that way? No, of course not. Nagano's going to think in his head that he's got half a chance. That's why, like my gut feeling is that it's Fury. You know, Fury, if he beats Ucic, undisputed champion,

going up against the UFC heavyweight champion. There's a lot of money potentially in that. And if you're someone representing Nagano, and I don't even know he's doing that at this point, but if you're someone repping Nagano, better chance of him not getting hurt against Tyson Fury than AJ or Deonté Wilde. Like, Fury might decide to, like, box him.

And you can walk away from a fight like that saying, look, I want the distance with the heavyweight champion of the world. Like, at least there's, you know, Pyrrhic victory. Let's say that. let's rank them in the three, the order that would be the safest and the riskiest for Francis. So number one, I think, you know, Fury would be the safest. The riskiest is going to be Deonté because, you know, hey, he might have a chance to, you know, Deonté not be in the boxer that the other two guys are, you know, he might have

a chance to hit Deonté, although I doubt that, right? I don't want Deontay thinking that I'm saying Francis and Conner is going to beat him because I absolutely am not. but if he has a chance to land flush on any one of those three guys, Deonté would be the guy, right? But it's riskier for Francis because I think Wilder's one of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing, and you're going to tell me that you is a non-defensive boxing fighter,

Francis relies on offense, you're going to go out there and you're going to let yourself get hit by this guy. And he had Tyson Fury in trouble, let alone Francis and gone. Yeah, against one of the greatest heavyweight pure boxers of all time. Deonté Wather still caught him three times in two fights, right? Like the last two fights. And twice in the first fight. Right, twice in the first.

Right. So five times total in their matchups. Yeah. And Tyson Fury has great head movement. Nagato is not going to have great head movement in that fight. It's going to be a sitting duck and Deontz is going to find it and he's going to knock him out. So, yeah, I'm with you. Fury, AJ.

Wilder. And that's frankly the order I'd put in most likely at this point. I'd say Fury, A.J. Wilder is where I'd go. Read Kevin's stuff over at Yahoo Sports. Follow Kevin on Twitter at Kevin. Kevin, good to talk to you, my man. Thanks, brother. Good to talk to you as well. And when we come back, my conversation with Oshackie Foster. All right. Oshackie Foster is a 130-pound contender on February 11th. You will attempt to win his first world title when he takes on Ray Vargas at the Alamo Dome in San Antonio. It's a fight you can watch live on Showtime, and Oshackie joins me on the show. So let's start with the obvious question here, Oshackie.

How is it that someone comes by the name, Oshackie? Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related

episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I honestly don't know. I just know it was supposed to be ocean-y. It was supposed to be Oceanique, but they spelled it wrong on my birth certificate. So I honestly don't even know the back story about it.

Wait a minute. They spelled it wrong on your birth certificate? Yeah, it was supposed to be spelled Oceanique. But they ended up spilling the Oshaki. Like I said, I didn't even know it was I didn't even know it was Oshaki until my first fight. No, they is old. And they announced me as Oshaki.

I was thinking they missed up my name, but on birth certificate, that's what it was spelled like. That's great. How old I never heard that? I've been following you for a couple of years now. How have I never heard that version of it? Yeah, it's crazy. Like, everybody from my hometown knows me as O'Shneek. They know me as Neek, but everybody in the boxing world knows me as Shockie.

So it's just it was kind of weird to them. They're like, you know, we thought your name was O'Sneek, you know, so it's kind of crazy. So you're standing there in the ring, eight years old, and you're introduced as Oshaki, and you just kind of looking around going, wait, that was a mistake? No, I got mad at my coaches. I'm like, yo, they, they spelled my, I mean, they said my name wrong, you know, so it was just one of those things. So you grew up in the Orange, Texas area. How did you get into boxing?

I used to watch it a lot. You know, at my pop script when I was younger, but I followed my older cousin to the gym, him and him and a couple of my friends that was around the neighborhood. They was always older than me, but, you know, just wanted to see what they was up to. And, you know, we all had our first fights and everything on the same day, and I'm the only one that won. So it was just kind of crazy for me. Yeah, and I know you had like a lot of people

Issues with the Olympic boxing program You thought you were going to earn a spot What in that 2012 team? Is that how it played out? 2012 team, yeah Yeah, what was that? You fought Jojo Diaz of the qualifiers, right? Yeah, we fought in the finals

A lot of people thought I won But they gave to him about three points So it was It crushed my dreams a little bit But I never really, I didn't know how big what the Olympics was. No, I grew up watching like the world champion, so I always wanted to be a world champion. But I felt like I didn't take that opportunity serious enough.

I was 17 at the time. When I qualified, I think I was 16. So, yeah. Yeah, and like that's a difference between, you know, when you decided to go pro, like two different paths. Like even if you don't win a medal, if you're an Olympian, you got promoters and managers and people trying to sign you. I mean, you came this close to being that Olympian, but I'm guessing it was a lot more difficult for you to get noticed by key people. Right, right.

And I was so stuck in my ways. I didn't even go, like, I didn't even go help the Olympic team. I didn't go to the Olympics, and I had a chance to do all that because I was the alternate. I just was like, you know, they robbed me, forget that. I'm done with amateur boxing. So it was, you know, I definitely didn't know how big, I didn't realize how big the opportunity was at the time. Do you regret that?

Yeah, for sure, because I didn't, like I said, I didn't, I didn't take the opportunity. Actually, I was training hard for it. And then I was forced to come up. back to my hometown. I was forced to come back to my hometown. And as soon as I got back to my hometown, I jumped right back into, you know, the bad stuff. And I went into the trials. Like, I wouldn't even, you know, like I said, I didn't even take it serious. And I still went to the finals and did with, you know, was an alternate. But I definitely regret not taking that

opportunity like I was supposed to. So what are those first few years like, for you as a pro. You win some fights early on, but then it's like, what, 15, 16, you lose two out of three. Like, what are you thinking about boxing at that point? I really didn't, because in the beginning, like you said, I didn't have any big promoters. I, from a small city just wasn't really, I was fighting on small shows, wasn't really making any money, so, you know, I just really didn't see the big picture of it, you know. And at first loss, like we didn't have no gym in the city. I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even really, like, prepared like I was supposed to, you know,

no excuses, you know, but that it was just all that and won. So what changed for you? What turned things around for you as a boxer? I just moving away from my hometown, getting with a team that we was on the same page that fully believed in me. and that's all around with the managers, the trainers, and everything like that. You know, I never was out. In the beginning of my career, I wasn't ever in that position, you know, to be able to choose my team, choose the manager.

It was always strong in my face, you know. So it was that kind of situation. And could you feel yourself, you know, kind of improving over those years, you know, especially in these last couple of years where you'd be, beat Alberto Mercado, somebody I just saw this past weekend, you know, fighting. You beat Miguel Romon. Could you feel yourself kind of growing as a fighter? Yeah, most definitely. I knew after I had went to Pennsylvania and beat, I forget the guy's name. When I went to Pennsylvania, then they, they Albert, Frank Delba, yeah. Yeah, then right after that, I went right to

John Fernandez. So I knew I knew it was a different it was a different for me. You're going into this fight somewhat inactive. You know, you fought the end of 2020 on the NBC series. You got one fight in 2022. I know you

were dealing with some promotional issues along the way, but like how sharp do you feel going into this fight? Because you're going up against the guy that's pretty sharp, at least at the weight class right below you. I feel like, man, I'm sharp. I feel like I'm ready to go. It's crazy because

we both only fought one time in 2020 and I think he had a two-year layoff too and things like that. So I definitely feel sharp. I feel like the layoff it just helped my body get more rest and

I never stopped training so I got sharper, you know, sharpened up my tools, things like that. So I wasn't, I don't feel like it's going to be a problem. You've been trying to get fights like this for a few years. How tough was it to kind of land, you know, one of these kind of opportunities? You know, social media has made it easier for guys to duck,

made it easier for guys to, you know, avoid some of the best fighters. But I just knew if I stayed patient and I stayed beating these guys that they put in front of me, that they would have no choice. When you look at Vargas, how tough a fight is this for you? Vargas at 126 was a really bit, 122 and 126, a really big guy. Now he's at 130. Is that, how do you look at Vargas? I feel like he's the smaller guy coming up.

He's always been a bigger guy in the ring. I feel like that's what helped him a lot, you know, being a bigger guy, the taller guy. I'm used to that. John Fernandez was 5-11. If the guy I fought in Costa Rica, he was like 5-10. But I'm used to fighting tall guys. I spar guys that's all the way up to 68. So I feel like I'm the bigger guy naturally.

But being that he's a two-time world champion and everything, I don't take nothing away from him. I feel like it's going to be one of the biggest tests in my life. does this does a world title feel at all to you almost like a second chance at the Olympics in a way it's like the Olympics would have

opened a lot of doors for you like we talked about a world championship will kind of do the same thing if you win that title all of a sudden you know there's a lot of possibilities at 1.30 at other weight classes does it feel at all similar?

Yeah most definitely but the difference is I'm not letting this opportunity go over my head. I'm prepared, I'm ready. I've been fully focused on wanting this since, you know, for the longest now, you know, I definitely feel like it's the same opportunity, but bigger. Well, Jackie, good luck to you, man. You really jumped off the screen in that last NBC fight night appearance. That was a real coming out party, I think, for you.

I'm glad to see you getting this opportunity, man, to get a world title shot at 130. Good luck on the 11th. Thank you. I appreciate you, bro. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Well, football fans, Fanduel has the perfect way for everyone to get in on the Super Bowl 57 action with a no sweat same game parlay. That means everyone gets bonus bets back if your Super Bowl SGP doesn't hit.

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but use the promo code boxing. Either way, you'll get bonus bets back if you're no sweat, same game parlay doesn't hit. Make every moment more with Fandul, official sports book partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. This week I am locked in on the Showtime card. Ray Vargas, Oshackie Foster, vacant 130-pound title fight. This is a very competitive fight. Vargas, a former two-division world champion,

Oshackie Foster. He is someone that's popped on to the national radar over the last couple of years, shown great power. Very, very, very good fighter. Right now, Ray Vargas is a slight favorite. He is minus 152. Oshacky Foster at plus 120. I like Ray Vargas in this fight.

It is Vargas moving up in weight to 130 pounds. He still is a 126-pound title holder. But Vargas is big, long. I think he's going to fill out that frame really well. And as we saw when he fought Mark McSayo, he just is a really good boxer. And I think he's a little bit better as a boxer than Oshackie Foster, whose best way to win, I think is going to be power. Ray Vargas, by decision or points, that's at plus 105.

I'm taking that as well. I think he just wins what's not going to be a lopsided decision, but I think a unanimous decision against Oshackie Foster. So take Ray Vargas to win. Take Ray Vargas to win by decision. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Kevin Ioli and Oshackie Foster for joining the show.

As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, reader Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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