The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - The Return of the Snake

Episode Date: April 6, 2024

Mannix and Sergio Mora discuss the controversial actions—or inactions—by Tim Tszyu’s corner, what’s next for Bud Crawford, David Benavidez’s shots at Canelo, what we need to see from Richardson Hitchins and Diego Pacheco this weekend, more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is boxing with Chris Manning. Oh, somebody, punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing,

When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, so on a scale of one to ten, one being miserable, 10 being super happy, how happy are you to be sitting here in Los Angeles right now and not in Las Vegas? Miserable. I can't wait to get to Vegas, baby, Vegas. Sergio Amora is here. By the way, Mann, can't, I'm interrupting.

Can I do my intro? Can I interrupt you, please? Well, you just did, so. When you introduce me, I want your editors to put some triumphant music from my entrance, like trumpets, blaring, like a king is entering. Okay. We'll do it there. Sergio Morris here.

Former junior middleweight champion, de zone broadcaster, contender winner, Vegas legend. You do do pretty well in Vegas. I don't know how. Very well. don't know how. You claimed to have a system. You explained your system to me last time we're in Vegas, which is effectively play red during the day and black at night,

which is not a system. No, no, something like that. Dostoevsky. If you adored Dostoevsky, Mad Russian, the gambler, read that book, and he'll give you the roulette strategy. All right, the great Dostoevsky is giving Sergio gambling advice in Vegas. I love that.

We will be in Vegas later on today. We're in Los Angeles because we will be at the Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia workout, Devin Haney workout in Los Angeles a little bit later in the day on Friday. It's funny, Sergio. I was just thinking, like, a month ago, if you would ask me the percentage chance that the Devin Haney Ryan Garcia fight was going to happen, I would have said like 30%, 35%, but here we are, like two weeks out.

And it seems like this fight is going to take place at the Barclays Center on April 20th. Are you surprised that we're here that this fight's going to happen? No, I'm not surprised because there's a lot of money on the line. A lot of money on the line. You know, two huge promoters are on board. Networks are on board. So when there's that much, you know, to writing on it, you can't just risk it on a couple of concerning tweets on Ryan Garcia's part.

Because other than that, he looks in good shape. It's more, though, than a couple of concerning tweets, though. Okay, but you're not going to count. So a fight on tweets. What else has he done? Has he broken the law? Has he done? He's not broken the law.

I mean, there's been boxers that have actually broken the law and still fought. Lots of them, yes. Many, many of them. Basketball players, too, by the way. So, yeah, this is a fighter that's, you know, deep into his spirituality,

religion, predicting like he's an Nostradamus. By the way, there was an earthquake today in New York. I think Ryan Garcia predicted it. Either way, that's not concerning enough for them, to cancel the fight. It's a mega event the kid sells, and it's going to do well. It is going to do well. I am, though, surprised that we're here because it's not just him throwing out a couple of tweets.

I mean, this was to the point where the New York State Athletic Commission, according to Ryan Garcia, was asking for a mental competency test. So you know if they were asking for a mental competency test, there were legitimate concerns. But here we are, two weeks out. Ryan Garcia says he's ready. Devin Haney says he's ready. So we are going to get that fight on April 20th. Before we talk about the fight card, we have this weekend. I want to get your take on one of the controversies of last weekend. Last weekend we had Sebastian Fondora upsetting Tim Zhu to win the unified 154 pound title. The controversy in that fight is that in the second round, due to an accidental clash of heads and elbows, Tim Zoo suffered a nasty cut on the top of his head, a cut that bled for the rest

of the fight, clearly changed the outcome of that fight. Tim Zu was dominating the first two rounds of that fight, wound up losing a split decision after that. The question I have for you, as a former fighter, is should the corner of Tim Zhu have stopped that fight? If they had stopped that fight after the third round, it would have gone to a no contest, which would have been a disappointing outcome, but it wouldn't have put their fighter at risk of exactly what happened. So I've heard ex-fighters like Tim Bradley criticize the corner of Tim Zew.

I have criticized the corner of Tim Zhu. What do you say about whether or not the corner should have stopped that fight? Former champion to you, Chris Mannix. Don't be relegating my... Tim Bradley's also a former champion, so let's... Yeah, but he's that former fighter. All right, so check yourself. Can we get to the point?

Yes, I would be furious if I was Tim Zhu because he did the brave thing. You know, he took a fight where nobody, nobody in the right mind would have went from fighting an older former champion in Keith Thurman to a six foot seven South Paul with a nine inch reach advantage and nine inches in height. Who does that? You get you get a good fighter with a respectable name, a top contender to save the date. I get it. It happens all the time. He still probably would have looked bad, but he wouldn't have got an elbow on the top of the head by a fighter

that's nine inches taller and a South Paul. I mean everything. If you can design the perfect nightmare opponent, it's Sebastian Fondora, and Tim Zhu decided to take on that nightmare in 11 days notice. That shows you the kind of fighter throwback mentality that Tim Zoo is, but it's also stupid. And I'm going to say it right now because now he's not a champion and now we've got a new unified champion. That's where calculated risks and matchmaking and saying no to your team and to the network and to whoever else is in charge, no. It's a very important word. I've said it many times in my career and I've been almost blackballed by promoters and networks. But no, it's very important, man.

You got to tell your kids know. You got to tell your trainer no. You got to tell everybody around you, no. This is your life, your career, and you only have one of it. Look, at Tim Zhu right now would have been a world champion. He would have been in line to fighting one of the big dogs at 154 millions on the line. Now, he took two or three steps back and has to heal from a nasty cut and he's not the champion anymore.

This is a huge misstep on Tim Zoo's part. and team and its corner for not stopping that fight. It should have been in no context. After that cut in the second round, they should have let the referee know. Hey, listen, too much blood is pouring into the fighter's face. It's getting the way of the vision, which it did.

It's not a lie. There's been fights stopped for way lesser injuries, way lesser cuts. This is a world championship fight. You needed to do the right thing. That corner messed up. And Tim Zuz should be furious, furious at his team. and his trainer for not calling him out on that

because now he's not the champ, now he takes the back seat, and it's going to be a long time until he gets that chance again. I understood letting him go out there after the second round. Just see if you could do it over one round, but he lost that third round. And after that third round,

seeing the cut just poor blood, you know, over the course of that round, I mean, both those guys were just, after one round of bleeding, they were both crimson, right? Like, the corner should have recognized that this cut wasn't going to get better, and that it was going to cause Tim Zhu to have to fight differently.

It was going to negatively affect him. So they opened the door for Sebastian Fondor to take advantage. And he did, to his credit. Like he threw a lot more jabs than we've seen Fondor throw. But I think Tim Zoo's corner deserves the criticism that they're getting because of this. They drop the ball here. And I think other trainers, maybe even your trainer, other more experienced trainers. It's happening to me too, by the way.

In that Manfredo rematch, I got two cuts in my. both of my eyes by the second rounds and I was bleeding profusely. That was only an eight round fight and my trainer didn't stop that fight either and I barely squeaked out of split decision. But if I would have lost, I would have probably been mad at my trainer for not stopping that fight. So everything's hindsight, 2020, looking backwards, but they, they, meaning the corner, zoo corner, needed to protect their champion.

This is not a fighter. It's not a contend. That was a champion in line to make millions of dollars to be a, uh, uh, uh, an international star, not only in Australia, but all over. I mean, he has that legacy of a last name with a great Kastjou. So this was a huge misstep. And I think Tim Zoo should be furious because it's going to take a long time for him to climb back up to championship status and win another championship.

So there are ripple effects to the Fondora win. And it begins with the fact that Sebastian Fondor is not going to be ready to fight probably until November, December. He is suspended by the Nevada Commission, has a broken nose, and some of the reports indicate that Fondora won't even start training again until late September. So that puts a lot of pieces back on the board. You've got Terrence Crawford, who is the mandatory for the WBO version of Fondora's titles. And I want to go there, Sergio, because we have not seen Terrence Crawford in the ring since July of last year.

He has been waiting for a big opportunity. Chase Canelo Alvarez around for a little bit. That didn't work out. It sure doesn't sound like Jermel Charlo is going to work out. Crawford was certainly hoping for the opportunity to fight Fondora for two belts at 154. But now that opportunity is gone at least until December. What does Terrence Crawford do in a situation like this? Does he wait for Sebastian Fondora to heal and potentially be out for 18 months?

Or is there another opponent out there that makes sense for Terrence Crawford? No, you know, whenever you're one of the best fighters in the world like Bud Crawford is coming off one of the biggest, most anticipated fights of the year or the last 20 years in Errol Spence, he's allowed to have a give me fight. And by give me doesn't mean it's going to be an easy fight. It's not going to be a star mega fight pay-per-view. So I think that's what Terrence Crawford should do, you know. He wants to get paid. I understand that, but he's 36 years old and time is not on his side. So you can't have both though you can't have a gimmee fight you can't have a gimmee and get paid exactly so he has to actually accept that so by

Gimmy doesn't mean a tomato can it's still going to be a tough fight I'm thinking more you know like a top contender that's already lost an Alexis rocha type rocha was in line you know he he won his last fight he's active that I think there are zero dollars in an Alexis rocha fight but that's zero that's a fight that can make that can make sense it's a it's a mandatory or You can go on the off. No, it's not a manor anymore because Rocha lost Sintyon. It was. And or you can go to the opposite side of that, beat the guy that just beat Rocha, Santayan. That would actually be very interesting.

I would love to see Bill Crawford and Giovanni Santillan. For the boxing fans, that would be a really exciting fight considering what Santillan just did to Rocha. It'll be a respectable stay-busy fight. And it's a fight that Bud can not only win, but shut a lot of people up and taking a tough mandatory against an undefeated fighter. San Dion, well, Sandian's got a fight scheduled now for May 18th. It's going to fight Brian Norman in kind of a homecoming fight for Santion. If Bud Crawford winks his way, you can bet.

Probably. Yeah, I would think that. But I don't think Bud Crawford wants a fight like that. It's not a pay-per-view fight. And if it's not a paper-view fight, you can't get the kind of dollars that he has been insisting that he gets to get back into the ring. I think the opposite, Sergio. I think if you're Bud Crawford, you want big fights from here on now.

The biggest fight at Welterway is Boot Tennis. We both agree on that. Like Boots is out there. He is, you know, he already has one of the belts that Bud relinquished, the IBA version. That's not a popular fight though, Mann, for the pay-view wise. Big Santian is? No, but that's not going to be the dollars fight that you're talking about. The pay-per-view numbers.

Boots doesn't bring that to the table. There is no paper-view fight for Terrence. There you go. So then why are you going to take on a beast like boots when you don't have to? No, look, you can make Boots-ennis versus Crawford on paper. It doesn't do it particularly well, but you can make more money fighting boot tennis than you will fight. Not much more.

Yes, significantly more. You definitely can do that. But Crawford does not seem at all motivated to fight boot tennis now or any time. And that's not unusual. I don't blame them. It's not unusual. Like older champions don't generally fight younger champions. That's sort of how it goes in boxing in any weight class.

So if he doesn't want to fight boot tennis and these lesser tier fights that you're talking about are understood. I don't know what it is. I don't know what the fight is. Like, do you wait for Tim Zhu to heal up this summer and do that fight with him anyway? Like, you know, you kind of sell it like this guy was going to win before this whole thing happened with Fondora.

Do you look at another title holder at 154? I mean, I think Crawford right now is in a very difficult position because there isn't a money fight out there for him. Even Jamel Charlo right now, Sergio. Like, that's not a money fight anymore. The way Jermel Charleneal fought against Canelo Alvarez, that is not, that diminished Jermelma, in probably the worst possible way.

So I guess my answer is I don't know, man. Like I just don't know what the solution. If he's not going to fight boots, he might be out of the ring for quite sometimes. I just told you the solution and you're not listening. That solution's bad. No, because I've been inactive. I'm the king of inactivity.

And I could tell you, if I was in a Bud Crawford level, the triumphant, yeah, bring back the trumpets. The king of inactive. There you go. But I am, though. And I could tell you, if I could take it back, I would take a stay-bizzy fight against a fighter that's not going to give me my minimum, and I had a high minimum at that point.

But the minimum is going to be like $4 million. I get it, but you've got to take half that. So if you can get a $2 million fight fighting a stay-bizy fight. I don't think he's getting out of bed for that. I just don't. Well, he's going to have to at 36 years old, man, because, you know, time's not on his side. And as talented as he is and pound-for-pound great,

Hall of Future Hall of Famer, he needs to have one of these stay-busy fights. Every grade has done it. Every, I mean, Canello Albor has fought Abney Yildrum in between fights. That was a little bit different. That was, I'm fighting because Canelo fought in December, February, and then May. Like, those were, that was a six-month stretch or a five-month stretch where he fought three times.

All right. Anthony Joshua has fought Kubrit Poolev in between, you know, so that's on the comeback trail, though. Man, I can keep going here, all right? Every champion has these guys that stay-busy fights. They're respectable names of contenders. If you were to take a stay-busy fight, you take it in December of last year. like six months after your win, December, January. You don't take it a year later.

Like, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You are asking me, the former champ in the questions. I am responding to your questions. And if you don't like my responses, then why don't you, why don't you have the Chris Mannix podcast with my guest, Chris Mannix every week?

We'll see how many listeners are there. It does excellent numbers. Santiano Rocha makes all the sense in the world. Rocha doesn't make any sense right now. Rocha's on the comeback trail. Santion, undefeated, I guess you could sell. Put that fight in Texas, California, Nevada, or Arizona. It'll fill the house.

It will do well. Look, if he's willing to take $2 million, $3 million, probably. I can see that, but I just don't think Bud's took to take that. I mean, he made, what, eight figures for that fight against Daryl Spence. He's not going to make eight figures or four figures in his next fight. He's not going to make that. That was a rarity. On that, I think we agree.

I want to get your take on David Benavides, who has been out there recently kind of pushing back on the narrative that Canelo Alvarez has been floating. It doesn't really need David Benavides, that David Benavides doesn't bring a whole lot to the table that he would only fight him for $150 million. Benevarez has said something to the effect of Canello needs to start showing him, David Benavides, some respect. Do you buy that? Do you think Canello has been disrespectful of David Benavides? Canelo is one of the most classiest, respectful champions in boxing. I'm a big fan of David Benavitas, but I have no clue what he's talking about there. There's a lot of dangerous, up-and-coming, undefeated champions that don't get the recognition

by the guys that have been on top for a long time, and that's just the way things go. It's not just in boxing in every form in any career. You got to pay your dues. Canelo has paid his dues in this game since he was 15 years old. old. He got to where he is doing it the old-fashioned way, you know, blue-collared way, bleeding for it. Now he's the head, Hancho in charge. He's the pound-for-pound king. He demands where he fights. He goes wherever he wants and wherever he roams is where people follow. David Benavitas wants that status. He will probably one day get that status, but he can't say

it's disrespectful for a king to not look your way. That king earned his right. He's allowed to walk in the manner he wants. And David Benavides needs to understand that he needs to keep knocking out guys the way he's doing it, like he did against Andrade and beating down Caleb Plant and all these other fighters that they put in front of him. Dude, he's doing just that. He will be the next star. He's in line to be the Mexican monster and pay-per-view star. I guarantee you.

He has the look, the backing, the following style, and the knockout power. This man will be a star. But don't expect to get some of that glimps. of Canelo's star and call it that he's disrespecting or hating. No, that man is just doing, he paved his own way and he calls his own shots. David Benavides needs to understand that and respect that himself. Everything Canelo Alvarez is doing is straight out of the Floyd Mayweather playbook. It's exactly what Floyd did. Floyd made his bones as Pretty Boy over the years, right? He effectively became a Hall of Fame fighter as Pretty Boy Floyd, a multi-division. A

multi-division world champion fought some of the best at 130, 135, 147, 154 when he beat Oscar Delahoya back in 2007. And after that, he started looking for highest risk and lowest reward. That's what he did. And I think that's what we're seeing now with Canelo Alvarez. Floyd Mayweather, for really five years put off the Manny Pachiafai. He didn't want anything to do with Manny Pachio for five years until that fight. was so big that the money for it was so enormous

that Floyd agreed to get in the ring with him. That is exactly what Canello was doing there. He's not being subtle about it. He's saying, I'll fight the guy. Give me $150 million. Now, I don't think someone's going to write a check for $150 million, but if David Benavides

beats Vostick in June, and then let's say hypothetically, in November, December, he beats the winner a better be Evan Bevo, which I think he can. I don't think it's an easy fight, but I think it's a winner. fight for Dave Benavides. How much bigger is Canelo Benavides this time next year than it is right now?

I mean, right now, Canelo could probably make $40, $50, $55 million to fight Benavides. If David Benavides is the undisputed light heavyweight champion this time next year, the fight with Canelo is massive, maybe so big that the Saudis turn around and write a check. But it's certainly big enough to put that fight in a Legion Stadium in Vegas to do a pay-per-view that will go well over a million buys. Like, I just think Canelo is doing what Floyd did brilliantly. He is being a businessman first, and it makes much better business sense to fight David Benavides next year than it does right now.

I thought you were going to quote Jay-Z right there and give me a Jay-Z line. I'm not a businessman. I'm a businessman. Let Canelo handle his business. Damn. Or chingao. But no, I agree with you. Can you imagine that fight at Raider Stadium in Las

Vegas on Cinco de Mayo weekend or September Mexican Independence Day between Canelo and Benavitas. It doesn't get bigger. That's as big as it gets in pay-per-view numbers in the casual fan and the hardcore boxing fan. I would, I'm salivating right now, Maddox. Give me a napkin. That fight right there is a historic fight. And I already told you who I think wins that fight. I think a lot of people will favor Benavitas to win that round.

but can you imagine finally seeing Canello on the back foot, you know, hurt or bleeding or dropped or have to come adversity like a lot of great fighters have to do it. In order for Canelo to win that fight, we're going to have to see him come back through adversity

like the old greats have, the Ali, the Lenners, the Duranz, Canela will have to prove that against Benavides a younger, stronger, faster, taller, longer-reach champion. That will be beautiful to watch and I hope and wish and pray that it happens and it happens on this side of the pond or the Atlantic Ocean.

Yes, that can be called the pond. And think about the finances of it, too. Like, I have been told that Canelo can earn in the neighborhood of $45 million for fighting Jaime Mungia. So let's say that the stuff Samson Lukowitz is throwing out there is true, that they're offering Canelo $55 million to fight him. To Canelo Alvarez, $10 million isn't all that much, right? Like, if you can fight Jaime Mungia in a fight, that you are going to be three to one, four to one favorite in and make $45 million.

Why would you fight a much tougher fight against David Benavides just to make $55 million? I think this is all about business. I just think it's all about how much money Canelo can get someone, whether it's a network, a foreign government to pay him to fight David Benavides. Because Canello was right there watching Floyd Mayweather do his thing when Floyd put off and put off and put off the Pachia fight. How many people were killing Floyd? I was one of them. Killed Floyd for years for not fighting Manny Pachia when he was right there in his weight class.

But Floyd was right. He was right to do it. He put it off and then he walked away with like $300 million or whatever it was to fight Manny Pacquiao that time. That is exactly what Kinello is trying to do. And then he made $100 million plus to fight an MMA fighter in Connor McGregor. That's what Kinella might do too. With that popularity and having that type of success.

you know, yeah, I mean, you can only, you can harp on a fighter or an athlete all you want, but you haven't seen the vision yet. You haven't seen it all the way to the end. Most of the time, there's mistakes. But sometimes like Mayweather, like Hanello and certain grates, they get it right. And history has to respect that. Whether you like it or not, you have to respect it. And it's all about, are they Hall of Fame fighters?

Yes. Are they making a killing in money? Yes. Generational money. Yes. And in the end, it was a beautifully, a beautiful career that they had inside the ring and outside the ring as businessmen and they're ever able to carry it on to the end. Anthony Josh was another one. There's so many of them. And it's rare that you get to see boxers at that side of the spectrum. Normally we see the opposite of that, you know, broke, you know, drooling, can't spell their names, you know, punched drunk, lost everything. And we love to see sometimes a successful ending to that bad tale. It's a mistake to do this for every fight because a lot of fights don't happen because of this. And frankly, the Pacquiao Mayweather fight almost didn't happen because Pacquio lost to Marquez during all that. But sometimes it does.

And I think the case of Canelo Benavides, with Canelo likely to win on May 4th, if he fights in September, he's probably going to fight someone else. He's likely to beat. Benevita is probably going to have the toughest test in front of him. If he winds up fighting the winner of BetterBeev versus Beev, he could lose. but if he wins Monster fight Vegas Allegiance Stadium

massive pay-per-view nine figures on the table potentially for both those guys It does not get bigger both of them will sell they'll break records pay-per-view I agree

All right we're going to be in Vegas on Saturday the new Fountain Blue Hotel Sergio have not seen it supposedly really nice brand new just opened and they'll be having a boxing event there

Richardson Hitchens headlining that show against Gustavo Lamos Hitchin's To me is already one of the best pure boxers in the sport. Like his talent is legit. He is a big, tall, rangy, 140-pounder. He has an incredible jab.

He is accurate with his power shots. What he has been missing up until this point is a little bit of that killer instinct, a little bit of that finisher in him. Like, you look at his last fight against Jose Zapata. A comprehensive one-sided beating. near shutout against Zepeda. But at the end of that fight, and you were there in Orlando with me, I remember seeing a wounded Zepeda in front of Hitchens over the last few rounds,

and Hitchens not really doing anything to press the action and go for the stoppage. And that's been kind of a theme over the course of his career. As much talent as anyone in boxing but doesn't go for stoppage. So my question for you is, going up against the fighter like Lamos, someone that is undefeated but largely untested who is aggressive fighter who's probably going to try to beat Hitchin's face all night. Does he need to do more than just win this fight on Saturday? No, I don't know how many times. I don't know how many times I need to repeat and remind you that boxing is all about winning, winning, winning, winning. Richardson Hitchens knows this.

He doesn't care about critics like you or anyone else writing bad about him because as long as he keeps winning and maintaining that zero, he's bound to cash in that zero for a check full of zeros. Okay, so I'm telling you right now, Richards and Hitchens doesn't need to look for the knockout or take chances as long as he keeps winning. And the thing about having that much talent is that you can keep fighting after that because you're not getting touch, you're not getting hit, you're not getting cut, you're not getting injured. So you can keep, you can keep, you know, climbing the ranks, the safe way, the smart way,

the calculated way, instead of getting into war. Now, you're saying take a risk, like in the Zepeda fight, Zepeda's hard to knock out, and he's a big puncher. That may be wrong time to say Zepeda's hard to knock out since he just got flattened by Dalton Smith in his last fight. He's a big puncher, and it was before that Dalton Smith's fight, but he's a big puncher. He's a South Pole. One fight before. And he dominated Hitchens, dominated that fight. Knocked up by Regis Pro Gray.

How many more examples do you want to know of this guy getting knocked out? He's not, he apparently is not that hard to knock out. a pro grade it took him what 11 rounds whatever it was uh hitchens is not there yet and he's not in the championship level so let him cross the finish line and start you know becoming let him become a champion start getting that championship money then maybe start taking chances if he wants to become a pay-per-view fighter one day and get the big fights because then yes once you're a champion you have to take it to another gear if you want the bigger names because then you're going to be you know one of these fighters like demetrius andre that was a champion for who knows how long and no one would look his

way because he wasn't going for knockouts. It's a great example. You are making my argument for me. Demetrius Andrade, all he did was win. And it wasn't until last year at age, what, 34 that he fought his first former world champion. And he made a boatload of money. These fighters that no one's heard of.

And he got lucky to an extent because he got early money from Eddie Hearn. Eddie Hearn signed with his own. That was as much about... You heard what Richard Hitchens said yesterday at the press conference. straight to Eddie's face, man, this is free money. I feel like I'm picking your pocket. That was great by Hitchin saying he thinks it's going to be easy money. Lamo's is easy money.

And he's looking at it like, hey, man, I'm robbing the bank. I won't be surprised if Hitchens comes out in a ski mask, just like Mayweather did for Pachiao and McGregor. This is a heist. Stick them up, Mannix. Stick them up because I think Hitchens is on the right path and he's doing it the right thing. Yes, but Andrade could not get a top level opponent in with him because top level opponents didn't see a lot of

upside there. They didn't see pay-per-view upside there. They didn't see dollar figures when they fought Demetrius Andrei. They saw a slick Southpaw that wasn't willing to engage for much of the fight. And that's the problem that Richardson Hitchens could run into over the next couple of years. Why is it Hitchens' fault that he looks, that he doesn't take chances? Let me just be clear. Why is it the opponents? They do. They're the ones that need to break that jab. Break that distance. It's hard. He's got a very good jab. It's extremely hard to do. His credit. Sergio, nobody is telling him, nobody is suggesting that Richards and Hitchens should be Arturo Gotti.

Nobody is saying that. It's more about, hey, when you got a guy that is defeated, and you know, not that you know this part of it, but like a guy like Zapata had to know, like going to the 10th round, that he was down 9-Zip. That's got to be deflating. He got hurt several times in the 10th and 11th rounds. If you see a hurt fighter like that, don't go for the one-punch knockout, but swarm him. Throw a bunch of punches, score a knockout that way.

I need to see that for Richard's attention because you know what, Sergio, it isn't just about winning. Boxing is a television show. And if nobody watches a television show, the television show gets canceled. If nobody's watching you box or nobody's buying tickets for you to box to watch you box, then you are not going to be on television and you are not going to be headlining main events. You weren't, and you, by the way, you didn't have. great power, but you understood what it meant to be on television. Even in the ring, lick the blood off your glove, be a little theatrical out there. You know, you knew what it took

to be television friendly. That's all I want from Hitchens. Be a little more television friendly as he's winning these fights. Yeah, all right. I'll give you that. Yeah, I didn't have the power of the knockouts, but I had television success with the reality show and I had a little, you know, Latin snake come out of me. You know, Mark Burnett on the contender urged me to do more of that. Sergio, I like it when you do that bravado. You stick out your chest. What accent are you doing right now? It's a British action.

I need more of that. The bravado, that pound your chest, and the more machismo. It's good television. And I always remember that from Mark Burnett, and I carried that on the rest of my career. And I also remember watching guys at Roberto Duran. You know, you'll do that stance after every round. And, yeah, that's when a little bit of showmanship come in. And you can't plan that.

It just comes out. With Hitchens, that's his character, man. He's been so successful doing this as an Olympian, as an undefeated professional, beating former champions, beating contenders, and he's making the money he's always dreamed of making now, and they're keeping him busy. So if he can keep dominating on one of the best jabs in boxing, which is Hitchens' jab now,

and being disciplined and responsible and not getting hit, not getting cut, he's going to walk over these for guys like Lamos and Zepeda and all these other fighters, let them get to the big fights. Now, if he gets to the big names, and mind you, it's a loaded division. So the big name is not only going to bring the big money, but they're going to bring the big danger. And come big danger, Jazz is not going to be enough. So Hitchens is going to have to show more in those fights against Tio Fimo, against Tank,

against every, Matthias, against everybody at 140. It's going to remind me of Ray Ford, Mannix. Remember what you and Grisham used to say about Ray Ford? Ah, no, he needs to show us more. He's not going to do this. not going to do that. He doesn't knock guys out. Match room is not going to give him opportunities.

Guess what? That's Matroom's first U.S. champion. And how did he become champion? By taking a big opportunity, and he didn't get the knockout. Ray Ford didn't get the knockouts up to that fight. He got the knockout in that fight, though. Yeah, but look at what he had to go through. Yeah, and everybody's talking about Ray Ford in the aftermath of that.

That was a big moment for him. Okay, can you put it on record that you were one of his biggest critics about not going for the knockout? Because I was in Phoenix with you. Yes or no? I'm saying yes. And it was one of his proponents vouching for him, me. Because I know talent, Mannix, and I know that Hitchens. Okay, but don't rewrite history here because we were both in Phoenix in that bizarreo, Danny Jacobs,

Julio Cesar Chavez fight. On that card was Ray Ford against Edward Vasquez, and he lost that fight, but he got a gift decision by the judges. That's why I started to turn down on Ray Ford. To raise credit, he made some changes to his team. He did. He's worked a lot harder. And in that fight against what was it, Autobachians?

I'm going to butcher his last name, so I'm not going to say it. In that fight, the boxing wasn't working. So he took the fight to the guy and then wound up knocking him out with the spectacular finish at the end of the 12th round. He took the fight to him. Now, I want to see more of that from Hitchens. You got a hurt fighter in front of you? You think Ray Ford planned that?

No. He made an adjustment. It was his opponent's aggression, and it was the fact that it was a close fight. And it was another fact that a lot of people choose, yeah, the other guy to win that fight. Ray Ford is a special talent just like Hitchens. Hitchens is a special talent. They have an above normal, above average, extraordinary fight IQ, and it starts with that.

And then it trickles down to discipline, and they don't go out of character, and then it goes to the attributes of speed, and then it goes to the amateur background, and then it gets into toughness and power and matchmaking and promoting and all that. But they have been so successful not getting out of character

that they're not going to change that and that's a discipline that not many have and I think they should keep doing that until they get the championship level fights they get to a world title then they can have more options on their table and maybe take more chances. Well, fortunately for Hitchens,

and I guess the guy like Lamos he's going to have a guy right in his face all night long and if he wins, he's probably going to become the mandatory for Subreal Matias's IBF title which is another fighter that's going to be right there

engaging with him. So he's going to have to show his stuff in those particular fights. All right. Last thing. Also on this card is Diego Pacheco, who you and I both love, like one of the best prospects in boxing, 23 years old, top five ranked by three of the four sanctioning bodies. He's got a fight coming up on this weekend against Sean McCallum, or McCallum, I'm going to say that name one more time. He's got a fight coming up this weekend. And, you know, Pacheco is right there on the doorstep of a world title shot. Last year, he knocked out Marcelo Cossaris. That was a gatekeeper type of win, biggest win in terms of names of Pacheco's career.

My question of you is, is this the year that you think Diego Pacheco is ready for that world title shot? McElman. You're thinking of a 12-year-old Scotch, McAllen or something like that. Mike McCallum, the body snatcher. Um, no, to answer your question, uh, I think, yes, but he's not going to get Canelo. Canelo has all the belts. So he's not going to get that fight unless he beats a Berlanga. So I think if it's a, uh, a undisputed eliminator to face the king, and that's Canelo, Berlanga has to fight a fighter like Pacheco, or, you know, maybe someone along that line. But look, they talk about Berlanga fighting Canelo. And I think

Pacheco doesn't deserve Canelo and neither does Berlanga. But if they fight each other, then maybe, then maybe they deserve a crock at the king. That's not going to happen. Okay, so then to answer your question, no, he's not going to get that fight because he's not ready. He hasn't evolved enough. He hasn't won a world championship. Yes, he's the goods. And yes, they are moving him brilliantly because I'm not, I wasn't a fan of Diego Pacheco his first two fights.

Chris Mannix, we called, we've called all this fights entire three. So you were right about Ray Ford and wrong about Diego Pacheco. I never said he wasn't going to be championship or material. But I didn't, I didn't think much of him. And now my, my change, my, my opinion, just like his style has evolved, this guy is a monster, man, at 168. But he's, unfortunately, he's in a division where there's only one king, one undisputed king, and that's Canello. And Canello's not going to fight, he's not going to look backwards and fight an up-and-comer and Pacheco. So unless those belts get available, then maybe he can fight someone else.

Maybe he can fight Mungia after Canello fights him. Maybe he can fight someone else if it's not Berlanga. Berlangen needs to step up too, by the way. Let's not just say Pachico. I don't think. Rolanga, I think, is going to stay on ice until Canello decides what he wants to do with him. He ain't getting that fight. Berlanga's not getting that fight.

Don't be shocked if he does. I'm not going to question Keith Connolly. Keith Connolly gets the job down. I give him credit. Don't give Keith Connolly props in the show. We don't do it in the show. Hey, Dervinchenko made a killing thanks to Keith Conno. so I got to give him credit.

Daravanchenko has made some good money. Maybe that's the guy for him. Derek DeRvanchenko at 168 pounds. Derevanchenko would probably take a fight like that. But I think a better fight and a main event type of fight is Bechtemir Melakusiev. How about Diego Pacheco? There you go. Against Bechdemor.

There you go. From what I'm told, Beck is going to be on this April 20th card, I think. So he's going to fight a couple weeks after Diego Pacheco. So the timing kind of lines up. We know that Bechtemir will fight anybody. He's always proven that. Pacheco, Melakusiev, two top 10 ranked 168 pounders, sign me up for that, because that is an offensive, just a display from both those guys. I still would want a more popular name, but yeah, a fight friendly fight.

You can't name a more popular than that. There's nobody out, like realistic, like Caleb Plant is not taking that fight. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about those lines. There are two guys that jump off the page, right? One is Melakusiav because he's kind of known in the U.S., partly for wrong reasons because he got knocked out, by Gabe Rosado, but he's a known commodity, going to get good exposure on this Garcia-Haney card. The other guy that jumped to mind was Eric Bezinian,

who a lot of people don't know, but he's also highly ranked by all the sanctioning bodies. Melakusiev makes more sense. Okay, but Beziniens fight next week too. So you got another guy that's kind of right there timing-wise. So what I think for Pacheco this year, whether it's summer, early fall, give him a top-10, top-five-rated super middleweight that's available.

To me, that's Malikuziev. and that's Eric Bezini. Those are two guys, I think that would make a lot of sense. No, I think they're moving them, right? Just like Ray Ford, you've got to be patient. He's going to get his time in the same. Ray Ford, though, took a fight that nobody really wanted. Okay, well, Pacheco was going to have to do that too then.

Pachekkoosia is kind of it. There you go. Well, it's going to be one of those type fights where the risk outweighs the reward. But if he passes that test, then, you know, he gets a title shot. And I think Pachko was going to, he's already evolved into something that I didn't think he can be. this kid is the truth he is the truth he's a power puncher he's tall he's lanky he's he's somewhat of a of a kelly pavlik type and and and he does it with more volume yeah man this kid's a beast i love watching him and his last fight you know not only did he get the knockout but he packed the house

and he's getting a following and they're moving him and promoting him right i think dago pacheco's a future ticket seller and uh and hands down a champion guaranteed yeah the champion part this is where i wish canello would just give up the belts because kennel over doesn't need the belts He's not defined by those four titles. And you know that if you have a title on the line, it makes making a fight a lot easier, right? Like whether it's because you can force a purse bid for it or because guys are more likely to take on tough challenges

with a world title on the line. I would just love to see Canelo after this fight against Mungia say, you know what? I'm going to keep the Ring Magazine belt. I'm the Ring Magazine 168-pound champion. I don't got to pay a sanctioning fee for that. So instead of giving up like a million five or whatever it is, he's got to pay for those belts.

Why don't you just have one belt and you'll still be considered the king of the 168 pod division? Well, I mean, in order to be the king, you have to have the crown, the robe, and the chair. You know, those are his... He has that. He doesn't need the belts anymore. He needs the belts. It's the image. It's the fact that I'm the champion of the world, you know, and there happens to be so many belts and I own all of them because I'm the man.

You're going to pay for them. You're going to pay for them. He's making $50 million. He can pay a little bit of money. I mean, you need the belts in order to show your regality. Is that the word, regality? Not really. Regalness?

Did Floyd Mayweather need the belts? I don't remember what belts Floyd held in his career. He was never the undisputed champion. No, he was never the undisputed champion, but he always held a multi- multi-belts. No, no, he held a belt. And he always brought him to the ring, everyone carrying them. Well, those are old belts.

He carried, he carried that undisputed image, and he sold himself well. Canello doesn't have Mayweather's talking abilities, but he handles his business in the ring, and he has the hardware to prove it. So that's all that matters, man. Can you try not to die in Vegas on Friday, you know, as you try to catch up when we get there? What do we land? Like, eight o'clock? Like, can you try not to?

I'm responsible. I'm responsible with my drunkenness. And by the way, There's a commercial. And by the way, I'm reading Dostoevsky on the flight over there. The gambler, baby, red. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the Ice Planet Hot. or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.