The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Tim Tszyu is taking his talents to the USA

Episode Date: March 26, 2022

Chris talks with the longtime boxing writer, Dan Rafael about the biggest stories from the week in the world of boxing. Later, he sits down with Australian professional boxer Tim Tszyu to discuss his career and why now was the right time to come over to the states to fight. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. All right, Dan Rayfield is here. Longtime boxing writer. You can subscribe to his newsletter over on Substack. It is terrific reading every single day. Check that out. Easiest way to get to it. Go to Dan's Twitter account at Dan Rayfield One. He's a link to it there. And as I said, great content every day from Dan over on Substack. Dan, I should tell our audience, like, full disclosure. I am recording this outdoors at the UCLA campus here. in picturesque, I think, is the appropriate term, Southern California. I am on a basketball assignment. This was the most convenient place to record this podcast.

So if you're watching the video, if you're watching the video and you see, you know, trees in the background or you maybe hear the occasional bird, that would be why. I would say I think I hear birds chirping in the background. It looks nice. It's not bad. I can see why people want to attend school here. I chose the Northeast and I dealt with bitter winters, but, you know, is what it is. Hey, man, I grew up in Northeast also and I left there 20 plus years ago.

Yeah, it's, I can see why it's enjoyable to be out here. All right, Dan, I appreciate you joining me here. A lot to get to this week. I want to start from last weekend with Edgar Berlanga, the Super Middleweight contender. Coming off two consecutive decision wins, he was not. knocked down in his last fight. He had an injury in his last fight. He comes back in Steve Rolls,

and I think there was an expectation that Steve Rolls was going to be just fodder for Edgar Berlanga. It didn't turn out that way. Rolls went the distance with Berlanga. So third straight fight, Berlanga does not pick up not just a first round knockout,

but a knockout of any kind. And apparently he's dealing with another injury after that. So you'd have another arm injury with a fighter with a history of arm injury. So, you know, God, give me your takeaways from what you saw from Edgar Berlanga. Well, I got a few things to unpack

from what you mentioned. Number one, you know, I like Edgar Berlanga, but first of all, first and foremost, been watching him since he turned pro. I'm yet to call him a contender like you did. He's still a prospect, in my opinion. The reason he's in these main event type of situations is because his marketability

has surpassed his ability so far. Ideally, which often does, which often is the case. Yes. Ideally, you develop the fighter's inner ring ability

and the market ability and they come together and you have yourself a superstar. His market ability is at the moment a step ahead of his actual ability. And that's why he's able to be in the main event. So I'll tower to him. He did a big crowd at the Madison Square Garden,

Hulu Theater. They sold the place out. It's like one of the sixth or seventh or eighth the biggest gate they've had for a boxing event there. And as far as going the distance with Steve Rolls, whose only previous loss had been a very forgivable one, a stoppage in the fourth round against Gannati Gullofkin, in a fight in which he gave Gullofkin, you know,

a couple of small problems, even if it was brief. But I was not a person that thought that Berlanga was going to go in there and just smoke Steve Rolls and get him out in there in a couple of rounds. And I'm not in any way or shape or form as a fan or if I was on his management team or promotion team to be disappointed that he went. the 10-round distance. I don't think that's a bad thing for a younger fighter who had 16 first-round knockouts in a row to now be getting in the professional rounds against, you know, a good guy like Steve Rolls, who's not a bum or anything. He's a solid professional who'd happen to lose

against the very best. So going to 10 rounds was not the issue. It was how he looked in the 10 rounds. If he fought a superior fight over those 10 rounds, guys go the distance. You're not going to knock everybody out. I just felt like Edgar is still showing some of those shortcomings. You mentioned an injury. You know, like you said, he hurt the biceps in the previous fight back in the fall on the Tyson Fury, Deonte Wilder three undercard in a win, which was a good performance despite the getting knocked down. And particularly when you consider that he overcame a biceps injury that occurred in the third round of the fight. Now he was talking after this particular victory against Rose, a little bit of a problem with his elbow.

on the same arm on the on the left side in the early part of that fight but again it was really the performance it looked flat he he looked like he didn't know how to cut off the ring that he spent a lot of time following steve rolls around didn't seem to let the hands go like he often would maybe thinking about that knockdown that he took in the previous fight um you know as they were talking about on the on the broadcast a lot of voices in that corner you know good people in the corner obviously he trusts his father who's been with him from you know uh you know as a professional uh you know k karoma an outstanding trainer who've been involved with many fighters over the years um and also his main trainer andre roger all good boxing guys and people he trusts and stuff but

is it hard it's hard i just don't see i've never seen a successful corner where you've got three people talking at the same time they can say what they want but that's not a change in my estimation um and and also maybe he's not as good as we thought he was he's still a fine I don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to slag on the guy like a lot of people have been. I still want to see him succeed. And these are the growing pains he's going through. But he's got heavy feet. I'm no trainer, but I've watched enough boxing to know when guys don't move like certain guys. And that's going to be a problem when he faces more technically skilled fighters. Is his feet, his feet are a mess. Yeah, I want to say in fairness to Berlanga, I didn't feel like Steve Rawls came to win that fight. That's fair. I felt like Rolls came. came to win the Golofkin fight back, you know, was outgunned, but I felt like he came to win, or he had that good second round against Golofkin. And he was throwing, let his hands go in that fight. Against Berlanga, it just felt like he was determined not to be a knockout

victim. And for most of the fight, he fought that way. But I agree with a lot of things that you said there, many voices in that corner, which, you know, if you've got 60 seconds, you want to streamline information. Like, you want the best and soundest advice to not potentially conflicting words coming to you. And I think it's also fair to say, like, you know, did we overrate Berlanga during that 16 fight first round knockouts street? Like, I'm not, there's no question about it because in those 16 knockouts, again, it was not, you know, the top ranks credit, his promoter, their their team, Brad Goodman, the matchmaker and Bruce Trampler, they were trying to give him opponents that they thought he would extend, that would extend

him into the second round, third, fourth, fifth, sixth round, whatever. And, you know, he just happened to be able to clip them and get rid of them. But I don't think that that in the long run helped him in terms of his, you know, bettering his abilities and his skills. Did it help his market ability like we talked about before? Absolutely. You know, when you've got, you know, a lot of fans getting excited, media getting excited, certainly the broadcasters getting excited. It's hard not to see that sensational situation when he's just laying everybody. a waste, even if they're not top guys. But I never, I don't have a problem with a knockout guy going to distance.

Like, for example, when he went the distance the first time against DeMond Nicholson, you know, he completely dominated him. He let the hands go. He heard him several times. You know, he was very close to a stop. It just so happened the guy was able to survive for the eight rounds. But I still thought that was an A level performance for him on the way up. So when the knockout streak ended, you know, I thought that was a good thing from, number

one, that pressure is off. And number two, in the wind that went the distance, he looked pretty good. good. And then you come up with what happened in the next fight against Cossaris, which was the injury and the knockdown. I thought that was, you know, in the long run, probably good, never good to get injured, obviously. But at least he was able to show, you know, I've got what's inside to overcome that type of adversity. And on top of that, get up from a knockdown, you know, and still win, you know, handily in terms of a decision on what was not your best night. So I felt like the first two distance fights were not a bad thing. And he, he still won, still looked pretty good.

So I think it's fair to say that the most recent performance on this past Saturday against rolls, the combination of going the distance, again, potentially dealing with another injury. And on top of that, just in those 10 rounds, not looking good. It happens. You know, I'm not, I'm not ready to jump off the bandwagon or anything like that. But you just want to see, you want to see some improvements and some more out of them. The plan is to bring him back. The plan is to bring him back in early June, June 11th, I believe is the Pennsylvania. in date. Just got to be careful with how you match him and, you know, keep putting him in with guys

that are durable, but maybe make an adjustment with that corner, at least have only one person talking the entire time and see what you got from there. He's still pretty young, but still miles away from being a legit contender at 168. All right, I want to move to another fight from this past weekend, the makeshift main event over on DeZone where with Virgil Ortiz, bowing out with a blood condition. You have Blair Cobbs and Alexis Rocha stepping up into the main event. It was a fun fight, Dan. You know, sitting ringside for it.

You had two guys that were, you know, prone to action like that, that wanted to go out there and make it a fight. And they did. Went close to 10 rounds. Alexis Rocha picks up a knockout win. That's the second consecutive fight, Dan. I've been really impressed with Alexis Rocha. The fights at 147 is very 10.

technically sound with a really good amateur background and continues to show that he has real power at that weight class. So when I said to this, him in the ring afterwards, I'm like, you are now no longer, to me, a prospect. You are a contender in this division. And I think that's fair. What was your takeaway from watching Rocha versus Cops? Well, first and foremost, like you said, it was a very entertaining fight. I mean, I was tweeting about it. You know, I was going back and forth between the DeZone broadcast as well as the ESPN broadcasts.

but I was able to watch most of, you know, Cobbs and and Rocha because it wasn't in conflict with the main event on the other broadcast. But I thought it was, look, it was an exciting fight. I knew when Golden Boy announced I fight in the first place when they were willing to put those two guys in with each other. Again, I thought it would be a good fight, just having seen both them in the past. I thought Rocha would win the fight and, you know, all respect to Blair Cobbs. You know, he has got a very, very giant personality. He wants to be seen. He comes to fight.

But I don't know if his skill level is at the same level as, like you mentioned, the amateur background of a Rocha, and that is going to put you at a deficit. So, you know, Cobbs, I think, has sort of gotten to a certain level. I'm not necessarily sure you can ever get to the next level. Rocha, by doing what he's been doing in recent fights, particularly with that win against Cobes is showing maybe he can get to the next level. And he does have the loss to Rashidi Ellis, who is also an outstanding amateur. So I'm not 100% sold on Rocha as being a bona fide contender.

but I think what the Cobbs fight told me is if one of the two has a chance to be a actual contender, it is in fact Alexis Rocha. Yeah, a younger fighter to just 24 years old. Cobbs is what, 33 at this point. So he has that going for him. And look, I don't think you throw Alexis Rocha in with Virgil Ortiz in his next fight or any kind of top five Welterweight.

But he was talking afterwards about facing a Michael McKinson. And I'd be on board for that fight. McKinson had a very, very unwatchable fight against Alex Martin. Yeah, I'm not so sure I want to see that. I want to see Alexis Rocha in with other opponents that are going to be there to fight him. And, I mean, you know. Well, you know, I think for Alexis Rocha, though, like one of the things I think he knows he needs work with is fighting slicker boxers. Because Rashidi Ellis is a slick boxer.

and he was able to win on the back of that. Roach has got to know that to get to the next level, he can't just win fights where guys stand and trade with them or like with Blair Clubs, Cobbs stick their chin out in front of them. He's got to beat more pure boxers, and McKinson presents that type of challenge. I just sort of think there's a happy medium between that. You don't have to necessarily fight a guy

that's just going to stand and stick your chin out the way you mentioned about Cobbs. You also need to fight a guy that's so utterly negative like McKinston, who's a talented boxer. I'm not going to knock him for that. But he just doesn't make a crowd appealing fight. And Alexis Rocha wants to make a crowd appealing fight. And, you know, it's a sport where you need to please the fans at some point.

And there's other, I know McKinson was in the rejiggered co-feature because of the fact that his original opponent was Virgil who fell out. But I don't think there's going to be any groundswell to say, we got to see Rocha against McKinson. There, you know, if you sit and spend some time looking at the different organization rankings or box wreck or whatever, you're going to come up with some other welter weights that might be more appealing. That can also give him the type of look that you want to get him, that you're mentioning about maybe a guy that's a bit more of a slick fighter than a Blair Cobbs is. But the good thing about he's in a position where, you know, he's on the upswing. There's going to be opportunities.

He's in a good division. You know, he seemed to draw. I mean, even though it was the co-feature became the main event, it felt like, I mean, you were there. I wasn't, but it felt like he had a lot of fans there in his fans cheering him up. So those are all positives. He did. Yeah, he has a fan base. I can't speak to how big that fan base is, but it's a fan base in Southern California.

And Golden Boy would be wise to keep fostering that, whether it's putting him on as somewhere on an undercard, co-made event, whatever you want to say of more of their SoCal fights in the future. Quick thought, though, on Virgil Ortiz. I thought it was really interesting, speaking to Bernard Hopkins on air during that fight, where, look, Virgil Ortiz officially, it was a blood condition that forced him out of that fight. But yet, Bernard Hopkins, lending voice to some of the whispers we heard during the week that maybe Virgil Ortiz needs to move up and wait.

Maybe he's done at 147. Bernard told me unequivocally that he believes Virgil should test the waters at 154 in his next fight. I thought that was interesting because Virgil has worked pretty hard to put himself in that top contender position for a welter-way. title now, you know, if you believe his promoter and Bernard is a good eye for these things, you know, he should be bound for 154. What do you think of that? I think it's up to Virgil Ortiz and his team to be honest with themselves. Can you really effectively make Welder rate without putting yourself in dramatic physical arms way? I mean, you and I have been around boxing long enough to know that certain guys, you know, they can make the weight. It may be a struggle,

but that's part of the game. That's what they sign up for. But it's not unhealthy for them to get down to whatever weight that they choose that they're fighting at. Other guys, you know, becomes a health risk to try to make whatever the weight class you're trying to be in. So Virgil, perhaps with a doctor, with his manager, with his father, there, and with Golden Boy, you know, with their conversation also, whether it's, you know, Eric Gomez, Oscar, Bernard, you know, just have a real private conversation, be honest about it. Are you willing, capable, and medically able to make that weight and be effective?

If the answer is yes, then give it a no other go because like you said, he's in a position where he's, I think he's number one in the WBA, WBO rankings where he's, you know, in a position to be in a world title fight at some point in the very near future. If he goes to 154, that process probably doesn't start entirely over because he does have credibility from what he is done in recent fights at Welterweight where he's just blitzed everybody and, you know, not elite elite competition, but pretty solid guys for the last a couple of years. Remember, he was when he started out for the first several years of his career,

he was a junior welterweight. And then he ended up to Walter Wade. He really hasn't been a welterweight for all that long. So, you know, I respect Bernard Hopkins' opinion a lot. And he certainly is around Virgil Ortiz from the standpoint of involved in terms of his promotion. So if that's something that Bernard said, you have to take that seriously. But again, I think it's totally going to be up to Virgil Ortiz and his, you know, closest people involved in his career, mainly his father and his management. To be honest with themselves, can we do this? Is 147 where we should be? Or should we try to, you know, go up to 154? Look, he's had tremendous power at 140 and 147. You know, it feels like, I mean, you never know until you see them in action in the new weight class, but it feels like he's

a kind of guy that's just a naturally heavy-handed fighter that if he's fighting at 154, he's still going to be able to punch, you know, very effectively, you know. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with when he comes back, you know, when he gets better and he's good to go to, you don't have go all the way to 154. See how you're not fighting in a championship fight. See how you feel. Fight at 150. You know, kind of like what Ganadi Golovkin did when he fought Steve Rolls.

You know, he was thinking maybe super middleweight in the future. He ended up going back at middleweight and winning a belt. But when they fought, they did it at 164, right between the middleweight and super middleweight division. For a guy like Virgil, maybe that's the way to go. See if you can, you know, how you feel by putting on three, four, five pounds and and given a go. And eventually, certainly he's going to be a junior.

middleweight, you know, maybe, maybe not right away, but certainly in the next few fights. But I hope he can still make welterweight. There's so many attractive matches and quality fights. You'd like to see him as a younger guy, you know, with a potential legacy in front of him. Try to try to start that out with the welterweight championship. I think he just turned, what, 24? Young kid. Yeah.

He's still young. I would like to see him start with a nutritionist. Like, you know, go to the perfecting athletes, people. go to somebody that does this on a professional level, because I don't think he has that at this point. And that often is really effective. I mean, we know most notably and famously, at least recently, when Tea Fima Lopez linked up with the top nutritionist,

he went out there and had a second round knockout of Richard Comey and then outboxed Vasily Lomachenko. So, like, it works. It works. So I'd like to see him take that stance first, try to go a professional. I know they're expensive. Sergio Moore and I have this discussion all the time

about how much money Sergio spent during his career on a nutritionist. But the value is there. Like, you know this, Dan. Every time one of these top athletes work with one of the top nutritionists, they may hate how much money they spend on it, but it works. Like, how many times have you seen an athlete be like, boy, I didn't need that nutritionist? That never really worked.

Like, it doesn't always guarantee success. But more often than not, the end result, if it's a positive, is partly because you brought somebody in that helped you make that weight in a more natural way. I'll take a line from my dear friend Larry Merchant, who many years ago talking about, I might have even been, you know,

post Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas, where I remember he had gotten rid of the trainer that had led him to the championship, Kevin Rooney. He was working with new trainers who were ill-prepared for that night in Tokyo. And I believe this is what he was talking about. if you have secretariat, you just don't get some guy off the track to get on his back. You get the best jockey out there.

And if you look at a boxing, if you believe you're at that championship top form level, you don't just get anybody to make your meals or to figure out your weight situation or figure out, you know, the best way to be healthy as you're making weight. You go get the best out there. And that costs money, but it's an investment. You're, you know, your body and what you can do with it, that's your business in the sport of boxing and in any sport for an athlete. And to put yourself in the best position to make that giant money that these champions

can make at the top level, you know, it may cost quite a bit at the beginning. But ultimately, if it is successful, it's going to probably be worth it. And maybe there's a way, you know, be creative. Come up with a plan. I'll pay you X. And, you know, if I get here, you know, I'll cut you in for 2%. Whatever the point is. My point is it's you're investing in yourself.

And, you know, there are people in places that can assist these athletes in that situation. I'm not sure what Virgil's particular situation is as it relates to his own nutrition situation. But I know that I have seen the impact that some of these folks have done with these guys. And for the most part, it seems like it's effective. Yeah, I agree. By the way, before we leave the Golden Boy scene, some of the whispers I was hearing while was out there is that Jaime Mungia after

having the negotiations with Jamal Charlo just blow up and leave us with Charlo Mottchec Suletsky which I've discussed last week on the podcast. I don't make me sick. No, I'm not going to go to that. No, this actually might I'm curious if you find this appealing. I think there's strong interest on the Mungia side to make Mungia

against Daniel Jacobs sometime in the summer. I know Jacobs is a Jacob's officially coming off a loss, but that's a disputed kind of defeat. And I think he still has some value in a fight like that. And that would be, I mean, that would be Mungia's toughest test. Oh, no doubt about it. I mean, Danny Jacobs is a season pro.

I know he got the official loss against John Ryder. I thought he won the fight. It was close, but I thought he won. I mean, Danny has only lost at the absolute top top level. He lost a close fight against Triple G. That was by no means. He's made you, though, Dan. like Danny's made you wonder what he has left because the last two fights,

he has not looked like the guy we saw against Canello, against Golofkin, against Darabinchenko at the highest level. Well, that's absolutely fair. I mean, Danny is not a young spring chicken these days. He's got, you know, 35 plus fights. He's been around for quite a number of years. You know, he's had one of the greatest comeback stories in the history of sports, the way he was able to basically essentially be on his deathbed with cancer

and not only come back to participate in his chosen sport, but to win a world championship. and be involved in some huge events. But look, Jaime Mungi against Danny Jacobs. In my book, anytime you can put two guys that are somewhat interesting to watch that have at least some kind of fan base that are known commodities to the boxing fans and you match them up together, I don't think you can ever really go wrong. I may not be a championship fight, but it's a lot more, you know,

if you said to me, Jaime McGee is fighting Danny Jacobs, and it's not for a title. Who cares? I mean, that's a much more fight just by the names than some things. than sometimes you have when you have a world title fight. So by all means, I mean, you know, again, those are hard fights to make, maybe potentially that issues come up about how much we're going to get paid. I know Danny Jacobs is very used to making a lot of money in recent times.

But look, to me, if that was something that was, you know, in the midst of a nice DeZone schedule, sign me up. I'm definitely watching that fight. I like both fighters. They've both been in some good fights. Both good guys, both make, you know, I think that would be a good promotion. Why not? Yeah, I'd almost like to see it too at 160 if Jacobs can make that.

I mean, he's now gone vegan and it's been suggested to me that he can make 160. And look, he's at three fights above the 160 pound limit since the Canelo stuff. That one was Julio Caesar Chavez, which was just a farce. And even in that fight, he took some hits from Chavez. Well, Chavez was a lot that came in much, you know, he had his own issue. Way have you. Yeah. I mean, look, if you make Mungi at Jacobs, it's not necessarily a world championship fight.

So, you know, again, if Mungia is willing. Somewhere in the middle, yeah. Why not? What's the problem? If you fight it at 163 or something like, who cares? I mean. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Mungia himself, I think is no problem. I mean, you can't have, you know, a guy that's like fighting in a welterweight championship fighting way over the weight. It's not for a title. But at this type of situation, there's nothing that says they can't sign for a contract for whatever weight limit they decide. Yeah, I agree. All right.

Let's dive deep into the negotiation sphere once again. Basil Lomachenko has bowed out, understandably, from a June fight against George Cambososos. Lomachenko, of course, in his native Ukraine, part of the territorial defense force defending his country against the Russian invasion, has decided he's not going to leave to train for a fight against George Cambos. So Cambosus and his promoter, Lou Debella, have moved on to Devin Haney, or moved back at least to Devin Haney.

They have made an offer to Devin Haney. I've been told that offer is virtually identical to the offer that was presented to Loma Chenko, that Lomachenko accepted, you know, several weeks ago. This is not even like a secret. This is what Ludeabella has said to me and I think other reporters on the record. Yeah. We have offered him the basically the exact same offer that we offered Lomachenko except changed the name in the in the letter. Yeah.

And what that basically does is make Devin Haney, you know, He tweeted out at some point in the last few weeks. I'll take the exact same off. So it's sort of put up or shut up at the chase on this. Okay. And again, I'm a big Devin Haney fan. I like the kid a lot. Cambosis is extremely likable also.

But if you're Devin Haney, how do you not take this fight? If you don't take this fight, what are you doing with your career? He's got a world title. He's defended it several times. He's looked pretty good. His level of competition has gone up a little bit here and there. He's fought like the guys like the Jojo Diaz and, you know, got the victory there. Now you have the opportunity that you say you want. You stood next to George

Cambosis with you in an interview on the zone after he defeated Jojo Diaz. One week after Cambosis had won his belts in the T. Fima Lopez fight, you can have the same deal they offer Lomachenko, who was certainly higher on the food chain within boxing than Devin Haney is, but you're going to get the same exact offer. And you can go and make the fight for the legitimate undisputed championship. I have defended Devin Haney time and time again saying that Teafima Lopez and George Cambosos, while they're tremendous fighters and they're unified champions and they should be ranked number one in the weight class. They are not undisputed. They cannot be undisputed until they have that WBC actual title that Devin Haney owns.

Go make the undisputed fight. Make a legacy. Show the balls to go on the road. You may be not the crowd favored. A lot of people would favor Devin Haney most probably to win the fight. You know, be quiet. stop chirping, get off Twitter, get on the plane, go get your vaccine, and go to Australia and kick some ass if that's what you think you can do.

Yeah, I agree. And if it means a rematch in Australia in the U.S., take it. Like, take it. What's what else like doing? There's some other. There's nothing. What else is there? I mean, are you not going to be fighting Loma?

There's zero. You're not fighting T.athema Lopez. You're not getting a fight with Ryan Garcia just yet. You're not going to probably get a fight with Tank Davis. he's off doing, you know, his business, he's got a pay-per-view fight coming up. So those are all the, you know, not there's other quality lightweights, but those are the main names. What else, who else is going to bring you that kind of money and recognition and glory if you can win? You can, if you take that fight and if you win that fight and if you win the rematch, you can get anything that you want.

Whether it's the end of 2022 or early 2023, you will get Ryan Garvey. if that's what you want. You will get Gervante Davis if that's what you want. You know Lomachenko is chomping at the bit to get his hands on all four belts. This is the path to doing that. Now, Devin's out there on social media as we record this saying all the right things, saying I'm on my way, using some very colorful language to say some of those things. I hope he means it. I hope that Devin Haney, Eddie Hearn, and Eddie's kind of said, you know, Devin should take this. Like he's publicly said that. I hope they accept it. I don't think he's like trying to avoid George Cambosis. You know, if you spend five minutes talking to Devin Haney, you know that he's a guy that,

that I believe that he truly does want to test himself against the best guys. And frankly, he'll probably beat a lot of the top guys. You don't have to worry about George Cambosis's desire to fight top guys because here's a guy that comes off a massive victory against Phafimo Lopez, his biggest payday, a great victory, a tremendous fight. He's going home where he really probably could have fought anybody and still made size of a mess of money. But he said, and much to like the, I won't say shock of his, I've talked to people in his team who were like, we could have gotten him a much easier fight. And he's like, no, I want a real guy.

Bring me Ryan Garcia. Bring me to Eifima, George Campbell, Devin Haney. Bring me these top guys. Bring me Lomachenko. He didn't want to just go have a victory lap fight. He wanted a real serious opponent. He got one in Lomachenko. For obvious reasons, it's not happening.

Devin Haney certainly fits that bill. Tank Davis is not available. They did talk to the Ryan Garcia team. The timing just doesn't work out for Ryan to be the June fight because he fights, you know, in a few weeks in early April. And it just wouldn't, you can't, you can't wait to see what happens in that fight and still plan a fight for June. So maybe they can, you know, if he wins and there's no rematch,

I think they can maybe revisit a Ryan Garcia fight at the end of the year. but at this point, you know, for both George and for Haney, it's the fight that makes sense for them, for their bank accounts, for their legacy, for the fans of boxing, for the sport itself, and for the sake of finding out once and for all who's the undisputed champion of the world. And I don't have to go on Twitter and explain to people why George Camposes has not the undisputed champion of the world. Yeah, hopefully we can then rubbish the,

franchise belt forever and just released for the time being. I'm with you. Just take the fight. Devin, it'd be a good fight. And look, we've been disappointed, Dan, by the lightweight division in recent years. Maybe this is the year we're not, like, maybe this is the year we get,

let's say, two fights between Devin Haney and George Cambosis. And maybe Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis can get on the same page. Listen, I believe that I'll see it. I know, I know. Come on. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic. I'm just an optimistic guy.

You're not going to get Charlo on. Andre, you're not going to get Garcia, Giovante. Life goes on. Charlo Andrette at 168 when they're both 40. Let's do that. That might actually happen. I can see it. Come on, we got, we got Charlo and Celestchi.

We got Demetrius against, against Zach Parker. Back Parker, there you go. So, I mean, I'm just... That's Zach Parker if I's not terrible. Like, that's, you know, it's what it is. Not that they're terrible. It's that they're not the right fights.

Oh, no, the Charlo Chalewski fight is terrible. Like that's, yeah, that's taken to be Tricer's leftovers. I have to say, though, and you know me a long time. I've maybe, like, chilled out a little bit as I've done this longer and longer. Like, in my younger days, I might get truly, like, crazy and start going mental about certain fights to get me. But I'm pretty chill these days.

It takes a lot to really offend me when it comes to making a certain match. But I got to say, I'm offended by Charlo v. Celestchi. I'm offended by it. I'm offended by it. Because it's one thing when Celeski fought Danny Jacobs, you know, he was, I think he was undefeated at the time. You know, he fought on Demetrius Andres in his hometown. You know, he only had the one loss.

But it gets, and then he had the two fights twice where he pulled out against Mungia. It gets to a point, it's like, I know exactly what's going to happen. I think you never know 100%. But I have no desire. or need to watch that fight. Now, all credit to Showtime, that's one of the fights that they announced in the last, you know, about a week or so ago where they put together their spring and summer schedule. Their schedule overall is outstanding, in my opinion.

And nothing is ever going to be perfect. So I'm not going to rag on them because I believe that Stephen Espinoza and the BBC folks and the teams that work to, you know, TGB promotions, Tom Brown, you know, they try to make the best fights that they can. So, you know, I'm not going to harp on, it's not their fault. It just shit happens. And that's just a bad matcher. The rest of them, you know, I'm all good with, but I'm offended by that fight.

Yeah, I'm not a fan, clearly, as well. All right, let's finish with a fight happening on Showtime this weekend. Tim Zhu, the son of Kostasu, undefeated junior middleweight. He is in action. Maybe is this his toughest test to date? Terrell Gosey, the former U.S. Olympian from, what, 2012 when he fought on the U.S. Olympic team. He fights out in Minnesota.

I'm fascinated, Dan, by Tim Zhu, because he's had a pretty good career fighting over in Australia, beat a decent fringe contender in Dennis Hogan. He beat a former champion in Jeff Horn. He's checking the boxes as he kind of moves up the junior middleweight ranks. I guess the question for me is, like, do you look at Tim Zhu as being the real deal? I do.

I do look at him as the real deal. I mean, we're going to find out. I think Terrell Gershaye is an experienced fighter in Olympian that got that pedigree. His only losses as a pro were not more decisions against, you know, good quality guys like Irislandi Lara, although that was an extraordinarily unwatchable fight that most of the crowd at Barclay Center walked out of in about the ninth round. But nonetheless, it was a close fight. You know, the other loss was to Erickson Lubin, who was a top contender.

So those are forgivable kind of losses. You ask if Tim Zhu was the real deal. Go back about three years ago, maybe it was even four years ago, whatever it was. And I do my prospect list at the end of the year. And I had Tim Zhu in that top, you know, 12 or 15, you know, several years ago, having watched many of his fights from Australia, because that's just the kind of dork I am. I watched a lot of his fights, you know, and I've seen rapid improvement in the last few fights. He seems to be more confident.

His punch selection is outstanding. And one thing that is absolutely uncanny, and the viewers on Showtime Saturday, if they watched his father, Kasa Zoo fight, if you didn't know it was Tim Zoo and you just, saw him from afar, he'd be like, oh, that must be an old Costa Zute. Because he stands like his father. He holds his hands like his father to sort of physical mannerisms that he has in terms of the way, you know, he moves and punches, looks like his father. He's a little, obviously, a bigger weight class of his father.

His father was a 140-pound champion, and Tim is a 154-pound fighter. But he looks very much like his old man. When I see him, it makes me feel old because when I was just starting out covering professional boxing. I was covering Costa Zuz fights when he was atop junior Walter rate and ended up becoming undisputed and voting for him later for the Hall of Fame. And to see his son develop the way he is, you know, I've had many conversations over time about the sons of fathers of great fathers who don't necessarily reach the level of the old man. You know, I can't say that Tim

Zhu is going to reach the level of his father who is a Hall of Famer who is one of the greatest junior welter rates in boxing history. But if anybody's got a chance, I think Tim Zhu is one of those guys. And, you know, we're going to find out on Saturday another answer to those many questions when he fights Gishay. I kind of like the fact that he's fighting on Showtime because that's where Costizu had his biggest fights. You know, he was under contract with Showtime in the early 2000s and had, you know, the major fights against, you know, Ricky Hadden, which he lost the end of his career, certainly when he became undisputed against Zab Judah. So I like that aspect of it.

But he's an entertaining fighter to watch. He's got the last name, which obviously makes it somewhat interesting just because of that. So to me, I'm very excited to watch him. Happy is coming to America. And by the way, it's not like it's a one-off. You know, this fight, he's already the mandatory for the Brian Castagnos WBO belt. And so he's supposed to be next up for the winner of the rematch between Charlo and Castanio, assuming they don't have another draw.

Yeah, he's proven everything you could possibly. prove at the domestic level. His last fight, he showed he could box against the guy like Takeshi Inouye, who his only loss before that was to Jaime Mungia, a tough guy. So he's shown power, he's shown skill, and now we're going to see as he takes it to another level.

I mean, if he dispatches Gasey pretty easy, I'll be really impressed. I'll say that much. To the point where, yeah, to the point where you start to look at him, be like, all right, you know, do we think that, I think it's the WBO belt that he's in line for. Like, whoever wins out of Castanio against Jermal Charlo, like, do you think they are going to want to fight it? Maybe, because there might be some money in it, but he's going to be dangerous. Like, I'm going to look at him really dangerous because I see a lot of the tools.

He's going to be right. Like, would they drop it? Like, would they drop the belt or, you know, fight him. I mean, it would be kind of silly to drop it. I mean, when there's going to be money, their showtime's going to want to, you know, they're not just putting on Tim Zoo just to put him on. they obviously know and have designs on doing business with him in the future. And that means in championship fights against the likes of a Castaniel. They should go to Australia, man.

Whoever wins that fight, if he can't fight Tim Zoo, go to Australia. He's wildly popular out there. Tim Zoo is the whole thing with Tim Zoo right now is he and his team have said, we want to come to America. You know, and his quotes were, and I'm paraphrasing, you know, if you really want to become a legend in boxing, you got to come and conquer America. He's having that same mentality that,

many of the British fighters had, whether was Joe Calzaggy or Bricky Hatton or Tyson Fury or any number of these, you know, British top guys that ultimately made their way over to the United States to make their names. And Tim Zhu has saw what his father was able to do. And now he's at the stage of his career where he's looking to come here and do the same thing. And I think the American fans are going to like him. He's got a fun style to watch. He also has, in my opinion, he's got charisma to him. You know, He's got a little swagger about him, and I kind of like that. I agree. I think the American fans are going to like him a lot, and I think he's going to have a successful career.

I think he is the goods. He's got a very limited amateur background, which worries me a little bit, but what he's shown in the professional ranks against guys like Horn, Hogan, in a way. If he looks that way against Gosea, we're going to have something here, I think, in Tim Zoo. Real quick, is that I want to go too deep in this because I'm not, I mean, I kind of know how this fight's going to go. Josh Warrington, Kiko Martinez over in the UK this Saturday on DeZone. Kiko Martinez got the title good for him, but it feels like this is a gift to Josh Warrington.

Like Josh Warrington with a chance to get that IBF belt back against Kiko, who, I don't know how much he has left, Dan. Like, I think he expended whatever he has left in that knockout win over Kid Galaad. And now here he's presented to Josh Warrington, like in a weird way, in the same way that like Charles Martin was once presented to Anthony Joshua. it's like you know here's the title it's a fair point but you still got to fight the fights number

one and i always think of that and and again i'm not saying kiko martinez is going to win but let me make this point and it actually struck me because i happen to see odds on the fight the other day and i want to say that warrington was like a minus 400 favorite kiko was like plus 300 i'm not i'm not much of a game i don't gamble on fights ever you know my gambling would be like if i put down you know two bucks on the yankees to win the world series you know just for fun But when I see those numbers, I'm like, maybe you do bet on Kiko. And I say this is the reason why. First of all, when they fought a few years ago, it was a very close fight.

Warrington got the victory. But if a memory serves, it was like either a split or majority decision. It wasn't like a lights out performance. This is before Warrington had won his world title. It's obviously many fights after Kiko had lost. I'll tell you now, majority decision to 116, 112's, then 114, 114. So that tells me that it was, and I watched. that fight. I don't really remember it, but I know I saw the fight. But nonetheless, it was a

competitive kind of fight. About five years ago now. Even if Warrington won. Okay, so they are familiar with each other. And Warrington in his mind knows that he can be, that the guy can be competitive with him. And Kiko knows that he was competitive with. Now, move past to what's happened in the recent past. You mentioned the fight that Kiko got the title back against Ked Galaad, massive, massive underdog, handpicked to go to Galaad's hometown for the homecoming defense. he didn't just win. He absolutely destroyed Galad. Two massive knockdowns and crushing, you know, the second one being just that devastating knockout.

Just destroyed him. Confidence build. That's a confidence builder right there. This is the fight of his life and he ends up winning in a massively on this unexpected manner. Now you take a look at Warrington. He gives up the IBF title, which ultimately now Kiko Martinez has, and he gets utterly laid to waste by Maricio Lara. Before that fight, completely upset. obscure and unknown. Again, handpick, bring them over from South America, put him in Warrington's

hometown, gets destroyed. And then he comes back in the rematch. And again, it only went two rounds, but Warrington did not look very good in those two rounds. I went back and watched that actually just a couple days ago. And I feel like if there wasn't a headbutton and that fight goes on, Warrington's in another heap of trouble in that way. So I feel like Josh Warrant. I think a lot of guys, Dan, that face Laura are going to be in some trouble. So Warrington's confidence. beast is got to be at the lowest it's ever been. Kiko's confidence got to be among the highest it's ever been just based on what he did just a few months ago in regaining the title. So my point is this, to make a long story short, if you see that guy who you feel like is

a little bit in a good spot and he's up plus 300 against the big favorite who's looked like crap in his last two fights, whose confidence level has to be at a real down spot, you know, whatever the differences between the two. that gap closes a little bit in my mind. So I'm not totally shocked by an upset just because how good Kiko looked in the last fight and how bad Warrington looked in the last two. Now, this could be completely wrong

and Warrington to go out there and be lights out and get rid of the guy. But, you know, I suspect there's going to be some intrigue in that fight that even if Warrington wins is not going to be like some kind of devastating blowout. Yeah, I don't think it's devastating. Well, I don't think it's devastating knockout. I think it could be a blowout,

Because Kiko's, I get everything you're saying. You kind of in a way, might be talking to Kiko in a strange way. It's like I'm picking him. I'm just saying I can. I know, I know. But it's, I know, it's just that big of a gap.

Since, yeah, since the Warrington fight in 2017, Kiko has not fought a quality opponent since facing Kid Galaad. And I'm sure some people in the UK would tell you, Kid Galaad is not that great either. But Kid Gallad had a very good record. By the way, going into that fight. The kid Galaad had that,

that Warrington struggled. against in the reason he gave up the title was because he didn't want to fight Gallad in a mandated rematch. He had life and death with him in their original meeting as a mandatory. Yeah. Yeah. But Kiko's wins have come against, you know, sub 500, around 500, double-digit loss kind of guys. He got knocked out by Gary Russell. He is, well, I mean, he was the upset machine for his one guy. No, no, no, no. In 2000, I think it was, you have his record in front of you. I have his record in in 2013. I was at the Revel Casino in Atlantic City, and he was a big underdog against Jonathan Romero, who at the time, I believe, was the IBF Junior Featherweight champion. And Kiko Martinez

scored a big upset that night, too. They had big plans for Romero. I believe he was undefeated at the time. He was 23 and O. Good call. Yeah, 2013. He was undefeated. He was, you know, HBO was interested in him. And this was like a supposed to be a showcase type of fight for him. And what happened? Kiko ended up pulling that big upset. too. Now, that's not, not that Jonathan Romero went on and had some glorious career, but at the time, again, not to make myself sound like an old guy, but that was a big upset at that point. And so it's not like Kiko was, I mean, he hasn't had a lot of them, but one time might be an accident, two times is kind of a trend. yeah to Jonathan Romero Kid Gallowhead and now

Josh Warrington in the We was competitive We was competitive with the first time He was majority decision The first time around I just think what's how old does Kiko right now What's he He's probably about 36 36 36

He's 36 now Reborn Reborn Where you Where you have me a little bit there is I think you're right Like it's not like

it's not like you saw Warrington come out and avenge that loss to Laura. Like he looked like he might have been on a bath towards a similar destruction if that fight had been able to continue. So we don't know yet. We don't know what Warrington is after the Laura loss. Well, I'll put it like this. Is he still a shell? To me, if Kiko Martinez beats Warrington, it's much, much less of an upset, much less than

when Laura beat Warrington. and even when Kiko beat Kid Gala Head, I mean, yes, by the odds, by general consensus, by conventional wisdom, whatever terminology you want to use, if Warrington loses, it's going to be considered an upset. But it is not the level of the upset that we've seen in so many other fights. It's not a Cambosis T. Fema-Lopez level upset. To me, it's a much closer fight on paper than I think a lot of people are giving it credit for. Again, I'm not sitting here saying I'm picking Kiko to win, but I don't.

discount him whatsoever for the many reasons I just illustrated. Oh, pretty good little Saturday then. Kiko Martinez, Josh Warrington in the afternoon in the U.S. Terrell Gosey tries to pull off an upset against... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

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Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

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And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Tim Zhu, not bad, not the most high profile, but I'll take it. We've been talking about the lightweight division.

You got the return of Miguel Berchelt coming up from 1.30 to 1.30 to 1.000. 135 on Saturday. I feel like that's a... Let's let Miguel Berchelle win a fighter two at 135 before I get excited about Miguel Berchelt again. You know what? He may not be in with the most high profile opponent in Nacquitla, but one thing about Miguel Berchelt is he always makes a good...

He comes to... He does. He does. He does. I just want to see if he... Like, give me like a Berchelt, like Jamel Herring fight or something later on this year and I'll get excited about Miguel Berchelt coming back into the ring. Not at this point. And he was coming back.

So make sure you subscribe to Dan's newsletter over on Substack. It's a great read every single day. You can check it out via his Twitter account at Dan Rayfield. One, follow him on Facebook and Instagram as well. Dan, always good to catch up with you, man. Thanks for joining me. Chris, thank you so much. And try not to get a sunburn out there in the park in L.A.

When we come back, my conversation with Tim Zhu. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

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Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-iron Kid Carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or 10, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite.

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So you can close out your bet whenever you want before the fight is over. To get your $150 bonus and site credit guaranteed, just sign up with promo code boxing on the Fandul Sportsbook app. A lot of people in the U.S. are clearly familiar with your father with his career. You're 27 years old. Can you tell me kind of what memories do you have of your father's boxing career? In terms of his career, I remember specifically the Zab Judah moment. I was there present for the Jesse James Leia in Melbourne. We'll lose to the Shadows and just the real big fights.

When you were, even at that age, when you're watching your father's fights, are you thinking I want to do this too, or are you thinking something else? I don't think I was thinking that, but I remember after each fight, my brother and cousins, we'd always put the gloves on it and start doing a bit of sparring in the backyard. You know, so we would always imitate and always think that, you know, just imitate the whole fight situation. I don't remember at that time if I was thinking, oh, I'm going to be a boxer, I'm going to be a boxer. I guess there would have been a thought there, of course. But, yeah, it was always part of growing up for us.

Is it, is it fact or fiction, the story I read about you breaking your grandfather's jaw when he were three years old? No, that's fact. I think I dislocated the jaw. How did that happen? Man, I don't really know, but when my dad tells me the story, I told my grandpa to put the gloves on, and I decided to give him a straight right on the chin, and that's all it took.

So you had some power even back then? Yeah, it started early. So you were more kind of interested in American soccer, for a while, weren't you? Was that kind of what the path you were going to go on early on? To a certain extent. My dad and parents didn't want me to do boxing. So they taught me soccer and be able to play team sports and stuff like that.

But yeah, that was never going to happen. So your dad was against you becoming a boxer early on? I don't think he was against me. I guess he didn't want me to become a professional maybe. I don't know. You know, this sport's quite hard, and it's not for the faint-hearted. When did you decide to get on this path? When did you decide that I want to make boxing a career?

I think when I turned professional, it would have been 20 years old. Just turned 20. I try to do other things, and no, it wasn't for me. this is what's for me. When you were an amateur, did you take to it pretty well? I mean, what do you remember about kind of your amateur success? Oh, look, amateur, I only have like 30, 35 fights or so, so I didn't have too many fights.

But, yeah, I remember at the end of that, it was our population in Australia isn't high, so there's not many opponents there to fight. So that's why I sort of, once I finished up with the amateurs, I was like, oh, there's no more appearance to fight. I might as well turn professional. When you turn pro, like, how confident were you that it was going to work, that you were going to have a good pro career?

Oh, look, I took each step as it is. I didn't set some stupid goals, said realistic goals that I could achieve, and one thing led to another, and the goals just keep growing and growing. and I'm developing as a person, I'm developing as a father and as an athlete, and that's the whole process and journey. It's just keep developing and reach your full potential.

See where you can reach. So when did the goals become World Championship? Because if you win on Saturday, your next fight most likely will be for a world title at 154, when did that become a goal of yours that you saw as realistic? I think two years in, I didn't say a goal for myself to become straight away as a world champion. You know, that's, I wasn't even in my mind at the moment. The first goal was to become the best in Australia. And then once I think that's when my eyes opened up and I was like, you know, what I'm going to take it's to the next level.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. While it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picket here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the Hardway with me, your host. and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross Because you find it important to be a good person Why you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I came here to America. I did a few aspiring sessions with different boys around you. And I felt confident and strong. And yeah, I just started believing in myself more.

And one thing led to another. And now here we are fighting for that world number one position now. So why was now the right time for you to come to the U.S.? Look, I took on a, I've taken on a few goal title contenders, former goal champions as well. and I haven't lost around you know like if you watch my fights I haven't lost around in my last eight fights

so I think this is the time to take that to the next level to take that next step and take the next challenge the power that you've shown at this point in your career did you expect that did you expect to kind of have that kind of pop as a professional

um It's all about it's sometimes it's not about having the pop, but it's having the right timing. Being able to land the sudden shot at the certain time, you know, and being able to take the shot as well. So boxing's sort of all about power. It's so much more involved. I read somewhere that you said you don't like having your father ringside at your fights. Why is that? He's only been to one fight, but he was screaming his ass off.

He was just too loud. I can understand that. I mean, I remember watching, you know, the Chavez Jr. fights, and Chavez Sr. does not stop talking the entire time. It's going to be impossible for a coach to give his advice while dad is ringside. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's no good. As he given you any kind of thought, as someone that I think he fought, what, 10, 11 times in the U.S.,

Has he given you any kind of, I don't know if advice is the right word, but any thoughts on on fighting here? Oh, look, you just said stay focused. The main thing is feeling good, getting your training right, and that's it, you know. The work in training shows up on fight notes. So, yeah, that's all it is. What is your kind of goal for fighting in the U.S.? Do you want to have big title fights in the U.S.?

Do you want to bring big title fights to Australia, a little bit of both? How do you see kind of your career? Yeah, a bit of both, man. A bit of both. I think we've set out a good platform in Australia. I feel like if you want to take on the world, you've got to make it here in America. And one step at a time.

And, you know, who knows how big we can go here in America. So, you know, that's my next goal. It's my new chapter set out. And it's quite exciting for myself. Well, looking forward to you making your U.S. debut on Saturday, Tim. Thanks for out for the time. I appreciate it, man. And when we come back, my picks for the week brought to you by Fandul.

Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddy host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, present, by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health at Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.

They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near your, and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandu.

Last week, one in one. I told you to bet Edgar Berlanga and bet him big, and he did come away with the win. But he didn't pick up the knockout, which I thought was pretty good bet at that time. Part of that is Edgar Berlanga. Maybe we overestimated his power a little bit. part of that Steve Rolls, who did not look like a fighter that really came to win, more came to survive. This week, I have got another one I am sure about. I am very, very sure about this big.

Josh Warrington against Kiko Martinez, IBF featherweight title, bet your money on Josh Warrington. Now, he is a favorite right around minus 400, according to Fandul. But these two guys fought back in 2017. Warrington won a majority decision back then. Since then, I think Josh Warrington has gotten better. Yes, he does have that brutal loss to Maricio Lara, and no, he didn't really avenge it in any meaningful way

when he fought Lara in the rematch. But Kiko Martinez, he's coming off a win, a title winning win over Kid Galahad, but I don't look at Kiko Martinez at 36 years old as being on the upswing by any stretch. So I am taking Josh Warrington to win by decision. Warrington by decision, a fight that you can watch on DeZone. That is your pick of the week, brought to you by Fanduel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Dan Rayfield and Tim Zoo for joining the show.

As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And next week, if we can track him down, we'll bring you Sergio Mora. Manix, I'm a man on the run And I'm not doing your fucking podcast We're not doing it, bro I'm a man on the run On the run Look for your children's eyes

And you will discover the true magic Of a forest Find a forest near you And start exploring at Discovertheforest.org Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council What grows in the forest?

Our imagination and our family bonds The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. You may think the NFL season is over, but now it's tapehead's draft season. And this NFL podcast gives you the inside slant on all the top prospects. Hi, I'm Bob W'Sheusufusin.

Starting March 1st, I'll be joined by NFL films Greg Kosell, who studies the tape and provides the real story on which prospects fit which system and which are likely to make the most impact in the National Football League. Listen to Tape Heads draft season, premiering March 1st, on the IHeart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down. and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.