The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - To Duck or not to Duck

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Chris is joined by Sergio Mora to talk about Fury-Ngannou and if we should have an issue with this fight, is Frank Martin ducking Shakur Stevenson, and will we see Manny Pacquaio back in the ring after him saying that he wants to fight Errol Spence. All that and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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slash football for eligibility, terms and responsible gaming resources, bonus bets, expire seven days after issuance, eligibility, and deposit restrictions apply. This is boxing with Chris Manning. Oh, somebody, punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix.

That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. This is boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the volume sports podcast network. We're coming to you live on AMP. Amp, of course, is where you go to get this podcast first. Subscribe to the volume on AMP and subscribe to my feed on AMP as well.

And look who is back, gracing us with his presence. Once again, the former junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster, and a guy who is never in a good mood unless he's on. on the road. Unless he's getting paid. Unless he's getting paid. That's it. That's the only thing.

Amps, sports, volume sports. Chris Manus gets paid. But the Mexican does all these favors for nothing, huh? Is this what he's doing here on this podcast? No, I need to start getting paid. Chris Mannix. Get paid well. The Latin snake needs to feed his children.

Latin snake does fine. And it's not about you being Mexican, okay? You do just fine. Chicano. Chicano, Chicano. Chicado. There you go. All right.

We've got a lot to get into here, search. I want to talk about the Tyson Fury, Francis Nagano press conference from this past week. Frank Martin Chikor Stevenson at fight collapsed, this accusations of ducking. And I've got a little bit of news to talk about Sergio involving Manny Pacquiao that I want to get your take on. So let's begin with the Fury Nagano presser from last week. Tyson Fury and Francis Nagano meeting face-to-face in London in advance of their October 28th fight. Fury was Fury. He was talking a lot of trash.

a little bit more soft-spoken, but he had some moments at that presser as well. Sergio, this is a fight that every time there's a media event around it, it brings out the criticism, right? The boxing purists hate it. They think Fury is doing a disservice to boxing. They think he should be stripped of his title. It really gets a lot of negative reaction. How do you feel about Fury Nagano?

Do you have a problem with Tyson Fury taking this fight? I gave up trying to convince people like you because at first it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. And then you realize, oh, well, they're doing okay numbers and they're selling pay-per-views. And they're bringing new eyeballs to the sport. Oh, they're bringing in female fighters and getting them paid more than they used to. It's bad for the sport overall. I started with this with Logan Paul and Jake Paul. And then all of a sudden you put them, you put them on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

So I can't say nothing anymore. They are who they are, but they're the other ones that started this. And now everyone's following along. You can't blame fighters like Tyson Fury who gave us one of the greatest trilogies in heavyweight history since Bowen Holyfield. I can't hate on boxers making money, especially when they're in their mid-30s. I mean, Fury is what, 35 and Ganu, to this day, one of the greatest MMA fighters in that sport. And he's not going to get paid nowhere near what he's going to make now at 37 years old.

So I can't hate on that either. They spilled blood. They already went through all the pain. Let them get paid now. I'm not going to hate. Is it taking two steps back for the purity of the sweet science? Absolutely. We need and want an undisputed heavyweight champion.

But whenever fights like these keep getting bought and purchased by fans, not only in MMA and boxing and everyone else, the casuals. We're not going to get it, Max. Thanks to you, the casuals and all the new people buying these things. I'm glad it's thanks to me. my fault that events like Tyson Fury, Francis DeGon. You're your senior editor-writer in what used to be the most prestigious sports magazine in sports, not anymore. You put a YouTube guy on the front cover. Thanks to you, Manix.

It wasn't, okay, it wasn't thanks to me. I did write the story, but it wasn't thanks to me. And it was an issue about the most powerful people in sports. And yes, Jake Paul qualifies as one of the most powerful people in sports. My opinion, Sergio, on the Fury de Gano fight is I don't care. I really don't care. I think it's kind of goofy. I think Francis Nagano has a 0.0% chance to win. All during that press conference, fine, but all during that press conference, I'm listening to people like Bob Aram, who know better, and people like Frank Warren, who knows better, say that Nagano is dangerous. I saw a quote from Bob Aram saying Nagano is as dangerous as Deontay Wilder. Nonsense. If Tyson Fury stands in front of Francis Nagano and lets him,

line him up and hit him with the right hand. Yeah, that could be a problem for Tyson Fury. But he's not going to do that. He's going to jab him. He's going to move his head. He's going to stay out of the way of that right hand, which, by the way, is thrown with methodical speed. Like, if Deonti Wilder's right hand is a Ferrari,

Francis Naganu's right hand is like a Volkswagen. Like, it just doesn't get delivered with the same type of quick trigger that Deonti Wilde said. So he has no chance. But I also think that the critics of this fight, specifically former boxers, some like yourself, I think the critics are just full of it, right? Because all these critics, if they were offered the exact same deal as Tyson Fury, they would take it. If Anthony Joshua was offered the exact same deal, he would take it. If Deonté Wilder was offered the exact same deal, he would take it.

I saw Tony Bellew called a fight a joke. Tony Bellew would take it. The reason I know this, Sergio, is because as much shit as you talk about Jake Paul, if and when you are offered the chance to fight Jake Paul, you are going to take it. Why? Because there's a ton of money in that type of fight. So I think the Fury Nogadu fight is goofy, but I think the criticism is disingenuous at best. Here's the difference, Mann.

You just named two former champions that are now retired, two guys that would love a free paycheck at the end of their career. and you just named the heavyweight champion of the world, the man that should be fighting in all-comers, the man that should be undisputed or fighting for undisputed and proving that he's the number one man on the planet as far as boxing goes. And no, instead we're getting Francis Inganu, someone that stands no chance inside a boxing ring,

zero chance, minus zero chance, but it's eyeballs to the sport, like you like to say, and people are going to buy, people are going to watch, I'm going to watch, I'm certainly interested in seeing another boxer another professional boxer knocked the lights out of another MMA fighter. Yeah, bring it on. But it's only putting real boxing on the back burner and delaying what we should be getting. That's the biggest fight in boxing. Let's address that.

You say it's putting real boxing on the back burner. The fight everybody wants to see is Tyson Fury against Alexander Usik. They negotiated that fight in the spring. It didn't come together for whatever reason. So it wasn't going to happen in the fall of 2023. The other fight I'd be interested in seeing is Fury versus Anthony Joshua, but Joshua made it pretty clear early on that if a Fury fight was to happen, it wasn't going to happen until 2024.

So the question then becomes, should Tyson Fury take an easy payday against Francis de Ganu? Or do you really care? Seriously, do you really care about Tyson Fury against Philip Hergevich? Or do you really care about Tyson Fury against Andy Ruiz? Because I don't. Neither of those fights do anything for me. They have the same appeal as Derek Chasora and Dillion White and any of the other second-tier heavyweights that Tyson Fury could have fought.

I want to see Fury Ussick. I want to see Fury Joshua. If I'm not seeing that, I really don't give a damn who Tyson Fury fights next. Maybe not Andy Ruiz, because I like to see Andy Ruiz when another fight underneath the thing thinks he's worth like $20 million. Like Andy Ruiz has priced himself out of every fight he's been rumored to be in. Yeah, it's lunacy. and that's what happens whenever you hit the jackpot,

you think you're going to hit it again. That's not the case. But as far as Philip Bergevich, that's the number one contender. Of course he deserves a chance. Yes, that's the fight that needs to happen because when you're the heavyweight champion or any champion that holds all the belts

or holds the belts, you need to fight your mandatory contenders. Philip Bergerovich already did what he had to do. Why is it his fault that he's going to be fighting another guy for $10 million that's not even a professional fighter? That's where the slap in the face comes, not only to the sport, but to this mandatory that's already bled and earned this right to get a crack at the crown. Not fair.

He's going to get a crack at some point. He's the mandatory challenger. When? Anything could happen. Like you said, he could slip on a banana pill. He can get injured. You know, these are once in a life opportunity. So whenever they're there.

Okay, but Tyson Fury is not obligated to fight Philip Hergevich. Philip Hergevich is the IBF mandatory. That means Alexander Usik is obligated to fight him. Tyson Fure does not fight anybody. In fact, if the WBC wanted to, put Tyson Fury in a real fight, they could have named them mandatory. They could have said, look, Hergevich is now our mandatory. Somebody else, Martin Bacoli is our mandatory. There was no mandatory for Tyson Fury to fight. Sergio, he is getting paid probably north, well north, of $20 million

to fight Francis de Ghanu. A guy, I repeat, has no chance of beating him. None whatsoever. You would take it. Joshua would take it. Wiler would take it. Anyone with an IQ over three would take that fight. No question about it. Anybody would take it even the greatest boxers in the world. Muhammad Ali fought football players and hockey players. Floyd Maywe, they fought YouTube guys. It's going to happen. Pachial, every karate kickboxers is going to happen all the times of greats because they're going to make money off their legacy, their name after they're done boxing real fighters, and they beat up on fighters that can't box. And that's what's going to happen here with Tyson Fury. It's easy money. 20 million for the easiest fight he'll ever have.

Please. All right. But you know what we'll agree where we find some common ground is, you know, Fury at this press conference, he was saying, I don't want to fight Usik. I want to fight John Jones. I want to fight other crossover type of fights. If that's the case, take his title away from him. Like I'm giving him this one because there are no other realistic options out there for

him. But the second this fight between Fury and Nagano is over, I want negotiations for Fury Usik to recommence. They almost got over the finish line a few months ago. they should be able to get over the finish line now. So where we can agree is if he wants to keep being this kind of circus act and only fight crossover fights, you can do that, but you cannot be the heavyweight champion in the process.

All right, let's talk about a fight that is not going to happen in November as planned. Shakur Stevenson and Frank Martin, two of the top 135 pounders in all of boxing. They were set to meet on November 16th on a top rank on ESPN card because top rank and PBC found a way to make a deal for these two undefeated fighters to face each other. Then this week, shockingly, Frank Martin elected not to take the fight, pulled out. That fight is dead. Shakur Stevens is going to move on to somebody else. Shakur Sergio has been very active on social media saying Frank Martin is ducking.

Do you believe that Frank Martin has ducked Shakur Stevenson? if you're Shakur Stevenson or anyone in his camp or any fan that wants the best fighting the best, yes, he's ducking. But if you're a professional box, if you've done this all your life and if you know that you're fighting a guy that's one of the most devoted fighters in the world champion in two divisions, you probably want to make sure all your ducks are in order. You can call me a duck all you want. You can call me a duck all you want. But at 18 fights, 18 professional fights, and you haven't really fought one champion, one former champion. champion even? No, you're not ready for one of the best young fighters in the world, probably pound for pound. I don't know if you have him in your top 10, but he probably is either 10 or

right outside of it. Chakur Stevenson is a beast. You know, he's one of these guys that you don't want to face unless you have to. Frank Morton doesn't have to. Of course, if he wants to try to become champion, yeah, take the fight. But if he has a bad loss, he's going to take two or three steps back when he can easily fought for a vacated title that Devin Haney might release. once he, let's go, those belts are, or fight Tank Davis. I mean, that's a fight that's within the stable, that BBC stable. Tank Davis is going to come back. He's in one of a fight. Frank Martin's one of those perfect style matchups. Power puncher versus another power puncher versus Southpaw versus Southup, BBC, makes sense in the world. So there must be something

brewing that we're not watching. So duck, no. What you're saying is fine, but this is about as crystal clear a case of a duck as I've seen in a while. If Frank Martin didn't want the fight, shouldn't have agreed to it. Shouldn't have had his representatives agree to it. This isn't a case of a fighter deciding when a fight is ordered to pull out of negotiations.

This is a case of a deal was struck. Tom Brown of TGB, representing Frank Martin made a deal with top rank. This was a done deal. Frank Martin was going to get paid $1.5 million or in that neighborhood. That's real money for a guy. It's only made a couple hundred grand over the course of his career. And if you're Frank Martin and you've been talking the talk for the better part of the last few months saying nobody wants to fight me, I'll take on anybody.

He even said something. I saw Chacon tweeted out a video where Frank said sometimes you've got to go into the fight as an underdog to prove yourself. All that talk. And then this is where we're at with him pulling out at the 11th hour. And meanwhile, Sergio, as we record this Tuesday night, Still no reason given by Frank Martin. He's popped on Twitter a couple of times to say, I didn't duck anybody with no explanation.

And to say that I did not insist on a 50-50 split, which Choucourt intimated in a tweet recently. So I don't know what else to believe here. If you don't want the fight, don't sign off on the deal that your promoter made. This deal was scuttled at the 11th hour after top rank sent the contract. So I just don't, I don't know how you can look at any other way.

Frank Martin wanted the fight and then maybe got some cold feet as far as taking the fight. I don't like casuals calling fighters bums. I don't like casuals calling, you know, fighters like Frank Martin, that they're ducking people. Hey, don't say it's casual though, Sergio. This is Shakur saying this. Shakur saying that he's a duck. You got to pick the right word, man. I mean, you got to pick the right word.

Shikor said it, sir. It seems like he's running away. Yeah, well, Shakur can get away with that. And good for him. He's a champ. And he can say that. but if you want me to validate that, no, I just think maybe there's something that we don't know. Other fighters are saying it. Teofimo said it, you know. I mean, other fighters are saying it too.

And you got to give credit to fighters like Stevenson and Teofimo, who have fought the best, and they put their money with their mouth there. And that's why the two of the most young, young and talented fighters are getting paid right now. Good for them. And if Frank Bourne wants to be on that same level, he's going to have to start taking chances just like them to. This is a bad look. I'm not going to lie. Cold feet, maybe, but a duck, that's going a little bit too far for a virus. 18 and 014. You're splitting hairs, though, saying it's not a duck, but it's cold feet.

I always do. I think you're still dancing around. You're still dancing around it. You're still talking about the exact same thing. Frank Martin, by the way, not some prospect. Frank Martin is 28. So he is now in the private career and should not be, he should not be, you know, moving away from world title opportunity.

Sergio, let's just assume for the sake of argument that Devin Haney is not going back to 135. I think we both agree he's probably not going to be fighting at 135 ever again. He is no longer the WBC champ. That's why this title is on the line. The WBO title, if it vacates, Frank Martin is not in the position to fight as a mandatory for that belt. The IBF title, Frank Martin is not in the position to fight for the IBF title. Yes, he could fight Jervante Davis.

And if Martin signs to fight Jervante Davis in December, January, then we apologize. I apologize. I hope you apologize. I don't think that's going to be the case, Sergio. Giovante Davis is most likely going to fight Esau Cruz in his next fight. So if Frank Martin passes on this fight and then takes a much lesser fight

either before the end of this year or early next year, what is that? Like, why would you pass an opportunity? Even if you lose, like, this is a great opportunity for you to win a world title and make good money in the process. Well, why don't we wait until that decision gets made and we know his next opponent? Either you're going to be apologizing or I'm going to call him a duck.

All right, so you're going to call him a duck then. Okay, fine. If he doesn't fight Tank Davis, I'll even quack for you. You're going to call him, a duck, all right. A couple of things I want to talk about that have been in the news

or around the news over the last couple of weeks. Freddie Roach is now going to be training Jaime Mungia. For his last half dozen or so fights, Jaime Mungia has been trained by Eric Morales. Jaime has been in Wildcard, working with Freddie Roach.

I've been told that he is going to move to Southern California to continue that training as he prepares for his next fight, whenever that may be. What do you make of this, Sergio? Jaime Mungia's decision to move on from Eric Morales and work with Freddie Roach. Anytime, and I tell you this all the time, anytime a fighter moves from trainer to trainer to trainer, he needs to, he's having issues with himself. He's having issues with his own confidence. He's having a problem finding his identity, his boxing style. There's a lot of things going on with his personal self. It has nothing to do with the outer, you know, what the problems

with trainer. He's undefeated. Hyman Mugia is an undefeated former champion. Usually, when you're going, bouncing from trainer to trainers because you lose or you get knocked out or you lose badly. That's not the case with Jaime Mugia. He was having success with his day one trainer. Then he moved to the great Eric Morales. I didn't say nothing because maybe it was time for that transition. Dude, he's undefeated with Eric Morales. And I could see that he was starting to jab more. He was moving his head more. He would resort back to what it normally is.

And that's face first, you know, take two punches to land one. But that's Mexican style. That fight with Darifinchenko is maybe the fight of the year. One of the candidates' fight of the year, incredible fight. But that's not the fight that you're going to have to be fighting to be facing some of these champions at 160 and 168. So I like the fact that he's going to a great legendary. fighter, I mean, trainer like Freddie Roach. Freddie Roach, the reason people go to Freddie Roach is because not only does he have

the resume, but he has the gym. Wildcard has some of the best sparring in the world. So you're not going to get, you're going to get quality sparring and you're not going to get a day to rest. That's the reason Chavez Jr. couldn't hang with Freddie Roach because Freddie Roach puts you through the mill. He works you hard. He has a team of co-training and strength trainers that are going to push you through

to the limits. They run the hills, the mountains up in Hollywood. This is hard work and not a lot of fighters are cut for it. Hyman McGee is going to figure that out soon because if he didn't work hard before and it was just natural talent and raw ability, that's going to be put aside. Now it's going to be hard work and hard sparring at wild card gym and under the tutelage of the great fairy roach. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day but just so y'all know I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed crack so I'm starting to see

that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now so Thank you for finishing that sentence I don't think there's a more important year for black people Really? Yeah for me it's one of the most important

years for black people in American history Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast I think Eric Morales had a positive impact on Jaime Mungi. I thought he became a better offensive fighter under Eric Morales.

I thought his combinations became sharper. He started to throw like eight, ten punch combinations. I just thought he became a really strong offensive fighter under Eric Morales. Morales didn't do anything for his defense. He is as vulnerable defensively as any former champion slash top contender is out there. And we know that, Sergio, because in the fifth round of his fight against a long since washed up, Sergey Dervenchenko, he almost got knocked out. And I wonder if that was a moment for Jaime Mungia when he realized maybe I need to do something different. Because right now we're talking about Jaime Mungia finally getting those big fights, whether there's Edgar Berlanga, Jermal Charlo, you know, Canelo Alvarez down the line.

He's got to know that he can't be all offense, no defense against those guys. And, you know, in talking to people, you know, around Mungia, like that, that's what's, you know, kind of the, what's been being worked on and what's being talked about in his inner circle. Like, how do we get better defensively? How can we improve in that facet of the game? We already know he's going to be a great offensive fighter. He's powerful. He's active. He's fast.

But he's got to get sharper on that. He's got to have more head movement. He's got to, you know, parry more punches, block more punches to do a whole bunch of different stuff in order to compete at the high. highest of level. Can Freddie Roach bring that out of him? We'll see. I mean, Freddie himself is known kind of as an offensive trainer, but he's been around the block many times. He's had success taking on guys at different stages of their career. I think this makes sense. I think it's a good move for Jaime Mungia. Well, I mean, look, I don't because Freddie Roach offense is his defense. All his fighters have been that way from Manny Paciel to anyone else that's trained with

Freddie Roach. Mungia just needs defense. So if he wanted that, he should have gone to a defensive trainer. Buddy McGirt would have been one of them. I mean, but do you really want to change him that much, George Benson? I mean, you need defensive. You need defensive no, I don't want to change him. That's why I said. Why leave Eric Morales? Why leave it's day one?

You know, those are the two you should have stuck with. I mean, he's undefeating and became champion, making millions of dollars. Why leave? All of a sudden, you got to change your heart because you want to start moving your feet and moving your head. That's not how you became, you know, the top dog in the sport. You know, you are who you are.

try to change that, you're just going to confuse yourself. He's not going to be Pernel Whitaker, no matter how much you try. That's not in his DNA. He has that Mexican style, and he's going to have to, you know, he has to live by that sword. And he has to go down by that sword. That's the way it's going to be. He's going to eat two to land one. But that one is going to be a hard one. Yeah, but he's not really a one-punch knockout guy. He's a volume punching knockout guy. I get it. I get it. And that's the reason, that's the reason Golden Boy has been matchmaking him, matchmaking very, very carefully. That's what they do

with fighters that are susceptible. You know, you got to drain as much as you can out of them, you know, and make as much money as you can knowing that they're vulnerable. Hyman Mugia is just one of these vulnerable fighters.

I mean, but he's eventually going to get those big fights. He's still in his mid-20s. And he's eventually going to get knocked out. I agree with that. I mean, I think that's, look, I just think as much as I thought there were positives

with his time with Eric Morales, I just think it plateaued. I think he had gone. gotten everything out of him and need something different if he's going to have a chance to live up to his potential because the fighter I saw against Daryvancho, that guy gets knocked out when he gets to that next level. I mean, Daryvanchanko, good fighter, take nothing away from that was one of the fights of the year, maybe the fight of the year, but Dervenchenko's 160 pounder who is at the back end of his career, has been through wars, and he almost got

Jaime Mungi out of there, almost beat him on points. Like, you need, if you fight like that, I can understand why Mungia would think he needs something different. Maybe Freddie Roach, change of scenery, different type of training, different type of sparring, maybe he gets something more out of that experience, especially if we're talking about Berlanga in his next fight. He wants to fight David Benavides. That would be a bad idea right now, a really bad idea. That hurts me.

Hearing it. So I think it's a good move to move. Berlanga's a way to go. Berlang is just going to be the way to go. another fighter that's not on the championship level, but it's going to, it's going to be interesting. Yeah. And look, I don't want to, we've talked with this in the past, but, you know, Jaime Mungia needs a big fight. Hyman Mungia needs Edgar Berlanga. Edgar Berlanga might need Hyman Mungia more. You know, we've heard in Red reports that, you know, Berlanga is negotiating this deal with Mungia.

He's going to meet with Eddie Hearn in the next couple of weeks in Florida to discuss about it. Hi, sorry, Edgar Berlanga has to find a way to say yes. Edgar Burlanga. Edgar Burlanga has to find a way to say yes. Edgar Berlanga has to find a way to get this deal done because look, Burlanga is ranked, I think, in the top five in all four major sanctioning bodies. He's right there. He's a contender, undefeated, but has fought nobody. And his last fight against Jason Quigley, I mean, Quigley was, might be the best opponent of his career.

And that's, that's not good if you're, if you're, if you're Agar Blanca. Edgar Belangga, I mean, he needs to find a way to say yes. And Quigley had some moments. I mean, Berlango was not doing the Quigley's to be. Burlanga wasn't the beast that everyone thought. So now Berlanga has to prove once again that he is a beast and he does it against a former champion and a fighter like Mungia or a Mungia type.

But we're going to have to, we're at to see that beast again. You thought Quigley won, 1,18, 110. So I didn't think Quigley won. He just surprised everybody, including Belanga. No, he didn't. All right. You know, another piece of intel I picked up over the last, you know, a couple of weeks was, you know, Manny Packy out.

And, you know, I've done some reporting on Pachiao talking about going into the Olympics and trying to win a gold medal in 2024. There's been some reporting about Pachial fighting another exhibition against kickboxer. One thing I heard over the last few days is that Pachia right now is actively looking for another professional fight. He's 44 years old. He has not fought since losing to Yudanus Ugas a couple of years ago. but I've been told that he wants back in in a professional fight. And the guy I've been told that he's looking at is Errol Spence Jr. Pacquiao, as you know, was at the Spence Crawford fight.

And Pacquiao at that fight was telling people that he believes his style matches up well with Spence. He believes, even at this stage of his career, that he can beat Spence. Spence, of course, has reportedly activated his rematch clause with Terrence Crawford. If you think about it, Sergio, if Pachia really is going to come back, fighting Errol Spence is not the dumbest idea in the world, especially if the fight takes place at 154 pounds. The kind of fight I think Pachial could lose and probably would lose, but not one at this point where he would get badly hurt.

What do you think of the idea of Pachiao returning to fight Errol Spence? I don't like fighters return. Great fighters. I mean, all-time great fighters. going back to the well for another chance at greatness. I mean, we've already seen Paci out get viciously knocked out. This is a man, a legend, an 8th division champion that has over 70 fights. He's already given, you know, three careers, you know, to everybody.

What more can he give the sport? One more can fans expect from him? No, I don't want to see him come back. Even though it will be a calculated risk against a fighter like Spencer, who is, you know, in the eyes of many damaged goods, he just got that beat down from Crawford. I mean, he had that brutal car accident, you know, the inactivity in the past. Yeah, in the past, you would say, that's actually the decent idea, you know.

And Spence is not a mover. You know, he has trouble with fighters that move laterally a little bit, pinning them down. I would, I used, I would say it was a good idea in the past, not anymore. Not at this stage. Not when you, when you already have political ambitions, you know, you're raising a family. You're trying to, you have asked for. to do other stuff, not to train, not to fight hard, not to, to go back and and revisit, you know, it's delusional, man, it's delusional. I don't like the idea at all.

You know, the biggest obstacle, or at least one of the biggest obstacles in making a fight like this happen is that there isn't any money out there for it. I mean, both these guys are used to making pretty healthy purses and I don't see any outlet network promoter out there willing to guarantee them the kind of money that they're used to getting or they would expect to get to fight each other. But if there was, I'll put it to this way. I'd probably be more interested at this point in seeing Pachio Spence that I am Crawford Spence, because I'm of the belief that Crawford Spence, too, goes a lot like Crawford Spence, one, or worse. I don't think an extra seven pounds is going to help Errol Spence all that much. In fact, you can certainly argue it'll

probably help Terence Crawford just as much. And, you know, we've talked about. We've talked talked about this a lot. I think Spence is a diminished version of the fighter we saw kind of rolling through the Welterweight division before his car accident. A greatly diminished Pac-Yau versus a diminished Spence, I think it's more competitive, frankly. And what do you get out of that? I mean, all, not every fight needs to be a super fight. You're a sadist, man. I mean, if that's the word, but you indulge in the punishment of others, is that the word? It might be a bit strong. Is that the word? Because, yeah, I mean, what do you get out of a fighter that's giving everything to the sport in Paco and someone who just got brutally beaten down like Spence.

Oh, well, let them both beat the rest of the pope out of each other. No, man, that's all people get seriously hurt. And it happens to the greatest, man, the greatest, die the hardest. Muhammad Ali, way past its prime, you know, after the Frazier fight, continued fighting. Sugar Ray Leonard continued coming back, got beat down by Camacho, by Terry Norris. They have Oscar de La Jolla, you know, comes back, gets beaten down by Poplar. Pachiel happens to the greatest, man, because they won't learn until it finally, the nail hits the cop. And that's what made them great.

The fact that they thought they can always, you know, continue fighting, continue beating the best, the best, the best. That's what makes them great. But not anymore. Not when you've already been stopped. That's not when you've already been, you know, to the top many times. You defied odds, but you can't continue doing that. That's when you get hurt. I don't want to see it.

I'm kind of with you on Pachial coming back. I don't need to see it. He's never going to be able to compete the highest level ever again. certainly not at 154 and above. But if you're Errol Spence and that fight is even close to realistic, if that's really something that is being brought to your attention, I would jump on that. I would because if you're Spence,

the chance to fight Pachia would make a bunch of money and maybe regain some of your confidence as a fighter, I think there's a lot of value in that. Maybe a lot more value certainly than him going up and fighting some, you know, top 15, top 20 contender just to get a win under his belt. You get a win over Manny Pachio. Not only do you get some of your confidence back,

but you also get a big payday out of it. Maybe not as big as you're scheduled to get against Crawford, although I'd argue that the pay-per-view sales for Spence Crawford 2 won't touch Spence Crawford 1, but you get a pretty healthy payday to fight a guy that you should beat. A 44-year-old version of Manny Pachio would be an underdog against even this version of Errol Spent. So if I'm Errol Spent, Sergio, I would,

if this is something that my advisors bring to me. I might consider reversing my decision on fighting Crawford right away and fighting Manny Pack, yeah. Of course you do. You said the word value. In the words of Oscar Wilde, critics like yourself, Chris Maddox, know the value of everything and the cost of nothing. I mean, this is going to cost him blood. It's going to cost him years of his life, cost, you know, of his health.

One fight can do that, man. One fight can change everything around. I know it sounds dramatic, but we've seen it happen all the time. You know, after that beat down, to come back with a great fighter like Paki, I'm not saying things to go back with Spence, but how many times are you going to go through pain?

I mean, look at that horrific car accident and then went through that. Probably, you know, that is actually what beat them down, worse than Crawford, but, you know, let's not take anything away from butt, you know, but, you know, you can't go through that. You can't put your body to that. And then to come back and try to do it again

against one of the greatest fighters of our generation, you're just, you're asking for trouble. And I don't want to see it. I don't want to take part of it. And sadly, it's a lot of people like yourself that are interested. Massacist. That's another word. I love when you quote Oscar Wilde.

You rarely get the quote right and it never makes much sense. So I do appreciate when you do that. Regis Prograde Devin Haney. This is a fight that I think over the next couple of days is going to be made official. There's been a lot of reporting around it. It's supposed to take place in the Bay Area in early December. It'll be Haney's first fight. at 140 pounds.

It will be a title defense for Regis Progrey. It was coming off a pretty lackluster fight in his last timeout, which Sergio may be the reason that Haney Progrey is taking place right away. We saw Regis Progrey against Zaria just kind of sleepwalked through that fight, and a lot of problems with the movement of Daniel Lito Zaria in that fight. And Bill Haney was sitting there ringside watching the father and trainer of Devin Haney. and this fight seems like it's on the cusp of being made official. Do you think going into this fight that Devin Haney,

who has been a career long 135, is he underestimating Regis Progray by taking this fight? I hope not. I hope he's not underestim because Regis Progray is one of the best fighters of 140. And if you're going off his last performance against a tricky fighter, a boxer that didn't really want to engage in Zoria. And not only that, you did it in your hometown. I'm a big proponent of the hometown curse.

You know, I hated it. Every other fighter, it just doesn't work. Look what happened to Katie Taylor in the much-awaited hometown return of the legend. I don't like it. Too much responsibility, too many commitments, and it happened to ProGray as well. But as far as Haney goes,

that's the best fight you can make at 140. So if it happens at 135-0-140, I would love to see it. I think ProGray is one of the best fighters in both divisions, and, you know, he just needs an opportunity at one of these big names, one of these big, you know, opportunities at 140. I mean, he's a champion there again, right? He's a two-time champion at 140. There you go. So Haney move up to 140 and a crack at Rougaloo's belt makes all the sense.

Look, I give Haney a ton of credit for doing it. I mean, Devin Haney is quietly putting together one of the best resumes in boxing. Go back to, what, 2019. I mean, quietly because nobody would not, we talk more about Canello's resume and Ussig's resume. And now Errol Spence and Terrence Crawford's resume. I don't think enough people talk about Devin Haney's resume and what he's put together. I mean, when it was, you know, the fights he had against Horri Lenaris and then he beat Jojo Diaz when Jojo was kind of peaking at that time. He goes to Australia and beats Cambosis twice in his backyard. Then in his first defense of all

those titles or his first defense outside of Cambosis. He fights Fasili Lomachenko. I mean, this guy is talking to talk and walking the walk. I just, I think he's got to. I think he's got to be careful with Regis Progray, because I agree with you. I don't think that Progray's performance against Zaria is indicative of the kind of fighter that he is. I don't, I know you believe in the hometown curse. I don't. I think that's an excuse that some guys make. I mean, I think Progray made it. Jared Anderson made it. You bring up Katie Taylor. Like, I think Katie Taylor's bigger problem was Chantel Cameron was bigger, stronger, and maybe a little bit more skilled at this stage, especially at 140 than Katie Taylor was. I think the hometown stuff is a bit overrated. But I do,

think that ProGre had problems with the movement of Zaria. And that lens makes me believe that Team Haney believes that their movement is going to cause problems. Now, Haney's not going to run in the same way Zaria did. But he's going to stick and move. He's not going to engage. He's not going to let the more natural 140 just blast away at him. And that's something that Progray is going to have to figure out.

But this is an incredibly dangerous fight. I believe that Progray is the top guy at 140. I mean, Tafima Lopez has got a belt and he had a belt. great performance against Josh Taylor. But he has one fight at 140. Regis Progray is a multi-time champion at 140 pounds. This has been his weight class for a number of years. He to me is the best guy at 140 pounds.

And for Haney to move up and fight the very best guy, I'm impressed by that. I really am. I just hope he's not looking at that Progray performance as saying, well, that's who Regis Progray is. The guy of Regis Progray is the guy we saw go narrowly lose over in Wales. to a prime Josh Taylor, a guy we saw flatten Jose Zapata in a title fight. So I think that he's got to be real careful engaging with Regis Progrey, because if you trade with Regis Progrey, Regis is going to knock you out.

And Devin Haney's too smart for that. And that's the reason he's building a quiet, great resume. And I don't see him overlooking a fighter like Pro Gray at all. You know, Haney takes these challenges upon himself to shut a lot of people up. And that's what I mean by quietly being great. You know, he's not doing it, you know, he's not doing it loud. He's not, you know, he's not talking a lot of shit. He's not going after, you know, a social media guy.

He's not doing all that. He's doing it. He's doing it the way it's supposed to be inside the ring. And he's doing it with respect as well, you know. He does all is talking in the ring. He even goes across the world to Australia like you said. You know, how hard is it for a world champion to do that? You know, normally it's like, no, you come to me.

No, he's going to the fire. Not only that. A lot of fighters use the promotional or network obligations as an excuse. Oh, well, I can't cross the street. Not Devon Haney. He said it. Mr. Eddie Hearn and matchroom promotions, you have done great by me. But let me just go see what's on across the street.

I might be back. You've treated me well. Same thing Conello did. These are fighters. These are great champions that have taken the bull by the horns and become their own businessman. And in the fight, you've got to respect that. And I got to respect that myself. Everyone does.

I couldn't agree more about, you know, fighters having. control of their careers because whenever fighters do it, it tends to work out pretty well for them. I mean, Miguel Cotto did it. And he had a lot of success and made a lot of money. Currently, Canelo Alvarez is doing it. Devin Haney, you know, fights the first stage of his career, or at least the high profile stage under Eddie Hearn, makes a lot of money, goes over to top rank, makes even more money, gets some legacy defining fights. And now he's back working with Eddie for his first foray into 140 pounds. I think more fighters should do it. I don't understand why guys you just align themselves with one promoter, one advisor, one match, whatever it may be.

I never really, I don't really like that. Whenever you get that, whenever you get that great name, you're allowed to do that. Pachial did it. You know, there's another one. Floyd Mayweather did it. You know, they already build a resume. Although, I mean, Devin Haney, though, didn't have a resume at the time. I mean, Devin Haney's still one of the younger, you know, champions that were out there. So, you know, he did it at a little earlier stage of some of these other guys. Most of the other guys that do it, they're over the age of 30. Devin Hays been doing in his 20s, which I think is not unique, but it's certainly rare for him. So I hope that fight gets finalized.

I think it's going to be great. Supposedly going to take place in San Francisco sometime early December. That is going to be a must watch if that fight comes together. Last thing for you, Sergio, we've got a good fight over on DeZone this weekend. You got Williams Zepeda against Bracito Hesta. You and I, I think, both agree that Zepeda probably going to win this fight one way or the other. But Zepeda, he's really come on over the last couple of years, you know, beating some quality guys, doing it with, you know,

a record-setting punchout boy. He is just a machine. You saw that with his win over Jojo Diaz. I think you're going to see it again with Mercito Hesta. We're at the point where we're going to start talking about William Zepeda in bigger fights against the likes of Shakur Stevenson or Frank Martin or any of the other top guys at 135 pounds. How do you think he matches up with those guys?

Do you think that Zepeda right now, 28 wins, no losses, 24 wins by knockout? is he on that level? Is he on that Shakur, even Frank Martin, Kishon Davis, all the guys that are up and coming at 135, is Williams-A-Peda in your mind on that level? Yeah, he's on that level. I mean, he's probably not the favorite to win against all the names you just mentioned,

maybe against Frank Martin because of the experience factor, but against everyone else, he's, you know, he's a smaller fighter, you know, they're going to have the reach on him, they're going to have the speed on him. He didn't have the power, but, you know, power is the, the least factor in winning these fights.

I think they're movings that paid up perfectly at Golden Boy. They're matching them up to have a big fight, not necessarily to win, but that's what that's what promoters do. That's especially by promoters at Golden Boy promotions. They really prime a fighter, get him to that red hot position where he's selling tickets. Then they put them up against another fighter.

They don't protect them. They do not protect them. They sink or swim. And guess what? If you walk to walk and you win, you become a star. If you come up short, it's okay. We're going to give you more fights.

We're going to get you right back to that championship. That's what a promoter. That's what great promoters do. And that's what fighters like Mertito Hesta, who hasn't been to the championship level, but what? He has 35, 38 fights. He's fought twice for world titles.

Three losses, three losses, three draws. But what happened? They keep bringing him back because he gives fans of good fights. Be Jojo. That was a quality win for him. Yeah, but he's always, in there. He always gives good fights. That's what I'm saying. So whenever you give, whenever you give, uh, as much as you can give and he doesn't get knocked out either. So it's not

like he's, you know, he's, he's, he's cannon fodder like you like to say to all these champions. No, he gives them good fights. He gives them good fights and he tests them. So Zepeda, Zepeda is going to be fighting a guy that's going to give him a good fight and another South Paul, lefties hate fighting lefties. And I think for the first half of that fight is going to be a very, uh, probably physical violent fight. And I, if, if it goes past six rounds, then Zepet Peta's going to have the upper hand because that's when age and the physical toll of all these fights that Hesta has will take a toll on them and a catch up. But other than that, I think Zepa is going to have his hands for four or five runs. Yeah, I think Zepeda is right up there.

I mean, you don't get to 28-0 for no reason. And I've been a fan of Sabata really ever since I first saw him fighting on NBC Sports Network, where he's part of that, Fight Night series, Ring City series, I should say. And, you know, watching him beat Hector Tanahara, watching him overwhelmed Jojo Diaz, watching him beat Renee Alvarado. You can tell there something there. I do think he's vulnerable against punchers. We've seen Zepeda get knocked down before.

We've seen him hurt before. He just is so determined to throw as many shots as possible that sometimes he leaves himself open for good counter shots. And like let's say he fights a Shakur Stevenson or somebody of that ilk, somebody with that kind of power, he could get caught. But if you let Zepeda get into a rhythm, if you let him box and you just let him throw punches, you're not going to beat him.

Nobody, I don't think there's anybody out there, Sergio, that can beat Williams-a-Peda by decision. Put it that way. I think he throws so many punches that if it gets the scorecards, unless you pick up multiple knockdowns, unless you do something special during that fight, he's going to win. So I think that it's a long way of saying.

I question his chin a little bit, but his output is so ridiculous that he is going to be competitive against all the top guys. I could see if fighters winning by decision. I mean, the way you stop volume is by timing, by movement, by clenching, by walking that opponent back. I mean, we've seen it time and time again with aggressive power punches.

You meet that one style matchup that just has your number, or not even your number, but was able to extinguish that fire, you know, and not let a fighter really get off those 100 punch combinations around. So you just need a fighter that can actually move, not let his opponent plants his feet, have a good jab, get the feints, and that 100, punch around goes to 60 and 50, and that's when you got something. Yeah. Well, I'm interested to see him in those big fight. Now that all the belts are available, Zepeda is up there in the rankings and multiple sanctioning bodies. I'd love to see him in a world title fight at some point in 2024.

Sergio, I appreciate it. And I'm going to Venmo you. What is your Venmo account? I appreciate my buttox, Mannix. I'm going to have my agent at CIA invoice you. You don't even talk to your agent at CIA anymore. You won't even tell them where you live. You don't have a Venmo account.

You don't tell anybody. I don't have Venmo. Cash money, baby. Cash money. That's what I want. Forget the dinners and the Bud Lights. I want cash money, Chris Menick. And when we come back, my conversation with Mercito Hesta.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

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so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, recito Hesta, 135 pound contender. And I do think you are a contender now, once again. Former two-time title challenger, now on the road back to potentially another title challenge faces. Williams-A-Dapaden when I think is a really interesting fight on September 16th, the Commerce Casino in Los Angeles. Do you feel like a contender again? Because this has been kind of a really interesting year for you. Yeah, I think so. I believe so.

You know, based on my what I showed the last couple of fights, and, you know, I'm working hard, especially working out with Marvin. you know, I've learned a lot. The reason why I'm saying I've learned a lot because as a professional fighter, yes, I do have 40 fights total professional, but that's just in professional. I don't have any amateur fights. So for me, I feel like, you know, I'm still learning. I'm still learning.

My body still feel good. I feel great. And, you know, from there, I keep going forward. So talk to me about this year because it started with people, People talking about you as a tune-up fight for Ryan Garcia. And then that doesn't come together. And all of a sudden you get the shot at Jojo-Diaz and you win that fight. Now here you are against the Pado.

What kind of years have been? You know, it's sometimes it's ups and down because, you know, like that Ryan Garcia fight, you know, my hope was all there, was all up. But, you know, unfortunately, the fight didn't happen. But, you know, it is what it is. I need to keep going forward. I don't want to get stuck into just one situation as a fighter mentality. You need to keep forward and fight your way up. The Diaz fight certainly gave you a new lease on your career.

And I remember, you know, you came into that fight a pretty big underdog, but I remember talking to you during the fighter meetings thinking, wow, this is not what I expect, this guy is really confident. He's talking about changes that have happened in his career over the last six months to a year. And I believe him. Sometimes guys just say stuff. But the things you were saying, I believe, did you feel like a kind of a renewed fighter going into the ring that night?

I do. I do feel. I do feel. I think, you know, there's a couple of factors why. Because, first of all, all my team, my mom, my dad, which is, you know, my first trainer when I started this sport. They all have the support, especially with my team and especially with my wife. And knowing that, you know, I had a baby.

You know, it's just a different feeling, you know. It's like another motivation that you have a baby gives you more, you know, pop to get in there and fight hard. And, you know, the joy that's just you feel. If you feel joyful in what you do, you know, you do great. And that's why I'm confident. And, you know, I know what I said. And I'm backing up by the result of the fight. When you lost your last fight, I think a lot of people thought maybe that was going to be it for you.

Did you think that? You know what, to be honest, I thought, I thought that's it, you know, I thought that's it, but there's some factors too, you know, the reason, you know, maybe I don't feel good. And that one, of course, the main big factor, which is I thought you'll be okay, the diet. You know, that's why right now my diet is really good, because from that time, I thought after the way in, I don't, I'm dehydrated, maybe if I just eat or going back. I'll be okay, but man, the diet is a big factor. Now that we have the right nutrition, it's all good. You need to have all of that, not just skill, not just the training. It needs to be complete, diet, everything.

And of course, you cannot do any bad habit, like maybe drinking. I don't drink. I don't smoke. It's not because I'm a fighter. That's just how I live. You lost that fight to Rodriguez in 2019. followed up with a draw against paralysis. You didn't fight again until 2022.

What was going on in your world at that time? It's kind of frustrating. You know, there's COVID. And after that, you know, when I had the fight in India, I got food poisoning. It was just a lot of things, you know, kind of bad things that happened. But I do remember specifically that time that if I keep continuing putting myself down and I'm, you know, this is too much. Like, I won't go anywhere.

You know, I stay positive, and my wife got pregnant, and I'm thinking, okay, this is it. I feel happy, for joy. And, you know, I'm a person that is spiritual and, you know, and that praise God. So for me, that helps me a lot. And from there, I just continue, and I have, like, a good spirit on me.

So I continued. While I can still do it, while I still feel strong, I'm going to move forward. And like I said, I'm still learning because of, like I said, 40 fights, but that's just an professional. I don't want to stop. I don't want to get stagnant. I want to learn because style evolves. You mentioned Marvin, Marvin Somodio, one of the trainers here at Wildcard. Working with him, you feel like you've improved.

How did you link up with him? And what specifically do you think you're better at because of him? You know, well, I've known Marvin a while ago, you know, because of Freddie. He was, you know, Freddy's assistant. And I was working out with Freddy. And then while I'm working out of Freddy, I just felt like, you know, I got a good connection with Marvin. Not just because he's Filipino. I think his personality, you just need to find someone that fits in your personality.

And then his personality fits on me. He understood me without saying a word. He, I understand him. So everything fits and from there we move forward and man Marvin Marvin knows knows everything like he he gets you know he learned from from the world famous trainer Fred Roach and I see that and then from there just the one thing that I like with Marvin is he doesn't change you he let you do what you do best and and refine it and fix it just enough to make it perfect.

And that's what I love about Marvin. You know, I mentioned the Diaz fight, and it felt like you were going into that fight with your career on the line. Like if you had lost that fight 34, 35 years old, it probably would have been over. Did you have that kind of mindset going in? That time, no.

You know, like, all I'm thinking is just to do good in the fight, do my best. I don't want to think about negative stuff. and I'm going to keep going forward and you know I'm just I feel like I'm blessed I work hard for that and I I did it and I made it and you know like you see in the fight I have my my baby in there that gives me more energy too because like oh yeah my first first time my baby I know he won't remember this but he's shown the video some yes yes so I was all positive on that fight How has fatherhood changed you?

You know, it changed. I mean, I'm still the same how I am before, but it's more like right now, it's like a little bit more like positive thinking. Because back then, when I start, boxing is not really my dream back then when I started. I just want to make my father proud. He wants, he loves combat sports.

he was in a moirite. Actually, I have a little bit of martial art background growing up, geekboxing, but it's not like a career. It's only like, you know, once in a while, if there's like a going on like fiesta. But, you know, when he says he loves boxing growing up, I want to show him that I can do it. And I do remember thinking my first fight, if I lost, I'm done. Second fight, if I lost, I'm done. Until it went all the way to nine fights. I'm like, wow, I think I'm natural in this fight in this sport. So from that point, I was just being positive. Like, you know what?

I don't want to think about negative stuff. I'm going to continue and I'm going to be there. And that time, I even remember being a Philippine champion is enough, but I get the ANBF, the OBO Youth. I'm like, wow, I passed that. So from there, I just keep going. And I believe there's ups and down, but hey, you know, I'm still here. I feel strong.

When time comes out, I feel like I can't do it anymore, Why not? I'm done. You're in Freddie Roach's gym, famous, of course, for Bani Pacquiao being here, the most famous Filipino fighter of all time. What was Pacquiao to you growing up? You know, a lot of us, Filipinos, Filipino fighters, not even not fighters, you know, like, you know, look up to him how, you know, what he accomplished, especially as a fighter, you know, looking at him like, because I know back then,

if a fighter, a Filipino fighter, had a chance to, you know, to fight outside our, in the Philippines, outside the country, it don't matter to us if we lose because thinking, oh, I fought outside, yeah, I lost, but, you know, but because of Manny's, you know, dedication and how he shows, like, we don't think that anymore. We think like, you know, I fought there, I'm gonna win.

I don't wanna think that about losing. So that gives us more also motivation that if he can do it, his Filipino, he's worth the same, you know, uh, country and we even speak the same dialect. So if you can do it, why can't we? Why can you ask? So, and, you know, I grew up in a poverty, you know, maybe not as hard as Pakiya's life because, you know, my dad has a little bit of, you know, job as a mixer driver, but still enough, enough for a day. But that gives me a motivation to help my family.

You know, I race to be a good, good kid helping my family, and that's how his Filipino is, like being family-oriented. And because of that, you know, I made it all the way here now. I'm thinking to teach that to my baby as well. Did you get to work with him much over the years, Pacquiao? I've stayed in his place here in Palazzo here in L.A. one time. I run with him one time. And a couple of times that because I want to spar the best, you know, many, but there's a lot of times that, you know, we're supposed to spar already,

but then he's already done or he has already. already a sparm partner, but, you know, it was an honor for me, it's supposed to, but I worked for them just running, training, and stuff back then, but now I need to make my way, my name. I don't want to be under his shadow, so that's why I moved to San Diego and work my way up from there. It does seem like every Filipino fighter has a little bit of Pacquiao in him, a little bit of that style, whether it's the slashing left hands or something? Is that something that just kids, even yourself, kind of pick up on growing up, or is it something

that comes naturally? I do admit, I was looking at Manny's style and thinking, like, you know, if that, you know, works, then why not, you know, copy a little bit, and then I'm Saupo, his style, Paul. You know, and I think it works, you know, you just need to find someone the reason why he's doing good because he's doing this, you know, but I have a little bit of that, but, you know, of course, I can't totally copy the whole thing, but I have my own style and he has his own style, and but his style is just, man, tremendous. He's crazy, like how he's just non-stop fast. He's one of a kind, you know.

No, no question. All right, so let's talk about Zepeda, because I think this is a terrific fight. You won the fight against Jojo because you outworked him. I think that's fair to say. You threw more punches. You landed more punches. Tough to do that against William Zepeda. I mean, how different has the preparation been for this fight?

Of course, a little, it's just different because of Cepeda's style. Marvin and I, we've been really thinking and practicing what to do and what kind of punch and how do we stop him from doing his combo. Of course it's going to be there, but we are thinking to make him pay for all that because of all the offense that you have, you're going to be also be open for the counter. We've been practicing that just a little bit of switch and what kind of punch that works. And then we've been doing that and sparring, making that, practicing that. And I did work on that on sparring and I feel like it's a little natural to me.

And if I connect in the sparring, what more in the fight when it has a smaller gloves. So I just need to really stick to the game plan and do what we've been practicing. You've got a game plan. Obviously, you don't want to reveal it to the public quite just yet. But it does feel like to me, and you kind of touch on this, is like, you've got to hurt this guy. You've got to find a way at some point to hurt this guy. You are not known as a big puncher.

Do you think you can hurt this? You know, when that training, that technique that we've been, practicing if it hits it's not about how you hit hard it's about how you can connect and surprise your opponent that's the knockout punch right there and when that hits i believe i can hurt him you've got you've had two cracks at a world title before what would a third shot at a title mean to you you know like i said a third uh what was the word third charm third third Third time's a charm. Third time's charm.

Yes, yes. So I believe in that one. So we'll be working hard for that. And, you know, maybe there's it. Yeah. Mercito, good luck on the 16th. It's going to be a terrific fight. I think you guys both are kind of right there on that cusp of world championship opportunities.

Looking forward to watching, man. Thank you so much. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Mora and Mercito Hesta for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download. podcast and I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite

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We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app. Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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