The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Trouble for Benn, Kambosos-Haney, and Wilder, HOF?

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

This week Chris sits down with Boxing Scene's, Keith Idec to break down the latest for Conor Benn, the Status of Crawford-Spence, and if Deontay Wilder should be in the Hall of Fame. Later, Caleb Plant joins Chris to talk about the drama surrounding his upcoming fight. #Volume #Herd #ColinCowherdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Manix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. A lot to get into today.

A lot going on in the world of boxing. We're going to talk about the latest development. with Connor Ben. We're going to get into some contract negotiations going on. Errol Spence, Terrence Crawford. Is that going to happen? Ryan Garcia, Gervante Davis. Is that going to happen?

We've got a loaded fight weekend. We've got Devin Haney back in Australia, Deontay Wilder in Brooklyn, one of the best women's card, maybe the best women's card of all time over in the UK. I'm going to dive into that. A little bit later in the show, Caleb Plant,

the former 168 pound champion. He is back this weekend as well. I'm going to talk to Caleb about the loss to Canelo Alvarez and how he kind of sees his career moving forward. To help me with all those topics, Keith Idaq, senior writer with boxing scene.com. Good friend of the podcast. He is back on the show.

Keith, what's up, man? Hey, Chris, what's going on? A lot, apparently. And a lot going on outside the ring and inside the ring. I know you're in New York going to the Wilder Hellenius headline show this weekend, so I want to get into that. But I want to go outside the ring to start, Keith. And I want to go over to the UK and address the latest developments with the Connor Ben situation.

Connor Ben, of course, it's been about a week since his scheduled fight against Chris Eubank Jr. Was canceled. This response to Ben testing positive for Clomophene, a female. fertility drug. Earlier this week, the Daily Mail, which broke the original story, reported that Ben is being investigated for potentially failing a test for the same substance. Here is Eddie Hearn speaking on the Matchroom Boxing YouTube channel about Conner Bet. Yeah, obviously he's got a big fight on his hands. You know, there's a lot of information we know about the testing that will come to light.

Everyone's very quick to make their assumptions, as always in this situation. We've seen it before. You know, the story stopped the fight. the commission had made their decision before any story came out in the media. And we had to go through that process because, as I said, once you find out the information regarding the testing, it was a difficult position because people were comfortable with the scientific facts around that. So we wanted Connor Ben to have his opportunity, as many have before, to be heard.

That will now happen post-fight, and obviously the fight not taking place. But let him have that time, let him have that moment. He has to go out, and obviously it's a very important time for him now, because some people have made their mind up as they've done before, let the facts come out and make your decision. So, Keith, based on what we know right now, how much trouble do you think that Connor Ben is potentially in? You know, Chris, it's hard to say, really.

He's in trouble, for sure. I mean, he's obviously tested positive for what is a known masking agent. And I think that's getting in some hot water. But, you know, look, everyone has their version of what the truth is, you know. And he's running around telling people now that everyone's going to owe him an apology, which is probably a reach. But look, I haven't met a PED abuser yet who has said, yeah, I did it. Yep, you got me.

I mean, well, maybe Mark of Wire, I guess, finally said that. But most of them don't. And virtually every sport, you know, everyone's, they have no idea how it turned up in their system. And they have a multitude of excuses, whether it's contaminated beef from a taco truck or, you know, they put something in their system from GNC that they weren't aware was on the label. You know, there are always excuses. Look, there's a lot of money at stake in this sport, Chris. And as you and I well know, people are going to take shortcuts.

And, you know, Jarrell Miller being the most disgusting example of it in recent memory, the audacity that he had to do what he did multiple times. So I really wish as someone whose livelihood is wrapped up in this sport, and I know yours is as well, and you care about the well-being of the people who put their lives at risk. I really wish the sport would be better about policing PEDs. And we've made some strides. Many, many, many, many, many, many, many more strides need to be made to clean up this sport. I don't think that it helps when a guy fails a test and you have promoters, networks,

whomever is involved, pushing for the event to move forward. when you fail a test, particularly for something that is, in this case, a no masking agent, you know, the event should be canceled or postponed. You know, they certainly could fight again somewhere down the line as long as they pass all their PED tests. My primary problem with this, Chris, is that what is the point of doing VADA testing? And I'm not saying VADA is infallible and is the be-all and end-all, but they are the gold standard in boxing that we have now for PED testing. And this is the second time in barely a year where we've had a fight where a fighter has failed a Vata test.

One of the fights went forward, as we well know last year, Oscar Valdez against Robson-Cin-Cin-Saysau. That fight went forward despite Valdez failing a test. And we were damn near close to one of the biggest events in British boxing history moving forward last week, despite that Conner Bent tested positive for a pretty serious PED, because Chris Eubank was willing to go along with it, there was a lot of money at stake, et cetera. Now, these guys oftentimes have to be saved from themselves, Chris, I mean, in a variety of ways, not just as it relates to PEDs. Fighters, you know, have huge hearts and don't always think with their heads and are willing to do a lot of things that are too risky. And in this case, the only positive thing I could say about this is that the British Boxing Board of Control did not allow this event to move forward.

because if it did, it would have been an utter disgrace and disrespectful, frankly, to everyone who laces up gloves for a living. Yeah. So Sergio Moore and I got into this last week and we kind of covered, you know, what could happen. I think the most interesting recent development, Keith, is that Daily Mail report that says Connor Ben is being investigated for potentially testing positive once before for this. because that would take this to a different level, right? Like if you test positive for this same substance twice in a couple of years

or whatever the timeline may be, you know, that puts you in kind of a new category of offender. Now, we don't know if that's true or not, as you said, Connor Ben took to social media and said, look, I hope the apology is as strong as the critique or something along those lines. And Eddie Hearn is kind of vaguely promised that, you know, there would be evidence presented on behalf of.

of Connor Ben, but it's pretty serious. I mean, like, if Connor Ben cannot come up with a reason this drug was in his system, it seems like he's facing a lengthy suspension. I don't know. There's a, there's not a letter of the law here, right? There's not like you test positive for X, you get Y in terms of suspension. But it seems to me if the UK, if the, if the, the British Board of Control is investigating this now, and they see these Vada results, and they see the same things that Vada saw, that there's a pretty good chance they come down pretty hard on Conner Ben. And again, if it turns out to be true that this drug was in his system before, that makes

it even worse. I just, you know, I don't know, I don't know how he's going to rig a lot of this, because at this point, no one in his camp has even floated a reason this would be in his system. Like nobody. And that to me is the most, you know, damning part of all this. You'd think that like, you'd think that at least be like after a few weeks have gone by, there'd be some kind of excuse that they'd be ready to roll out there. At this point, there has been none. And unless we're missing something, I don't know that there is going to be one that validates this substance being in Conner Bent's system. You're right, Chris. But I would just say,

you know, in fairness to Connor Ben and every fighter who fails a test, I mean, give him his due process, let's see how it plays out. And if he cannot come up with some reasonable excuse and he is suspended, well, then he'll have to pay the, you know, do the time for the crime, so to speak. You know, but he'll fight again. You know, even if he gets a multi-year suspension, he will fight again. But, you know, of course, from the outside looking in without knowing exactly what Connor Ben is putting into his system and why, you know, it looks pretty bad when you've agreed. agreed to move up 10 pounds and going about putting on weight in a way that will make you hold up against a bigger, stronger fighter who has fought as high as 168 pounds.

And not only fought at 168 pounds was pretty successful and had knocked guys out at that high weight. Now, you know, Chris Eubank was coming down to what would have been the lowest weight of his career at 157. So, you know, you don't know how that was going to affect him either. But, you know, he's, when you wonder why Conner Ben's. thought it was a good idea to move up 10 pounds and technically two weight classes to go fight Chris E. Bank Jr., well, maybe he had enhanced confidence because he was using a PED. Now, again,

he deserves his day in court, but it certainly looks bad from the outside looking in that he goes and takes this huge challenge and then get, you know, then test positive. And then there's the, you know, like you said, the Daily Mail story that said he has tested positive previously. I think there was a point when maybe he was removed from the WBC rankings. He was. He was. He left. Yeah, he left the program.

Right. He was not in. Either he wasn't enrolled in it originally or he, whatever the case is, he was temporarily removed from the rankings because he wasn't being tested by VADA. And again, you know, whatever people think of VADA or WADA or you, you know, all of these testing organizations. In our sport, VADA is the standard. And again, I just don't understand.

understand why you're going to pay what is a substantial amount of money to make sure that these guys are clean and then when they're dirty, try to move forward with the fight anyway. I mean, like, it's insulting to people and mostly to fighters who are clean because there are plenty of clean fighters out there. While I think there were probably more guys using PEDs than we'll ever know, I think the vast majority of the fighters are clean. And, you know, when you put, I mean, again, you know, we've had this conversation before, Chris, and as of many others. This is not hitting a baseball further.

This is not, you know, enhancing your ability to block. You know, football's a little more dangerous, of course, but enhancing your ability to block or to be stronger on the football. I mean, you could kill somebody. So when you take these types of shortcuts and take someone's life in your own, quite literally in your own hands, I mean, the penalties couldn't be harsh enough for me. I agree. And that's why I'm very interested to see what Connor Ben and his team come up with.

over the next few weeks because if it's not credible, if it's not believable, the British Boxing Board of Control, other organizations should calm down pretty hard on him because it is incredibly dangerous to take a band substance to get into the ring. And I hope that gets recognized as a result. All right,

let's look at a couple of more compelling negotiations. We are now five weeks away from the once targeted date for the Welterweight showdown between Errol Spence and Terrence Crawford. And there is still no deal. Floyd Mayweather, he came out recently. And after referencing his relationship with Spence's advisor, Al Haman,

Floyd said, as of right now, the Spence Crawford fight is not happening. Stephen Espinoza, the president of Showtime Sports, he was asked about the fight last week. Here's what he had to say. You know, these things take the life of their own. You know, the reality is I'm not even sure how the November 19th date got out there. And all of a sudden, it was written in stone. So, the reality, there's been a lot of dates that we've talked about.

And November 19th is one of them. I'm as anxious as a fan as anybody else to get this done. And I know there's two more anxious people than me. And that's, you know, that's Errol and Terrence. You know, and they want to get this fight done as quick as anyone. But the reality is these fights take time. I know everyone's impatient. I want everyone needs to, wants it done yesterday.

But the reality is it's a complex deal. there's a lot to negotiate. I still think it's on track. I, you know, I caution people all along the way. Keith, you and I spoke on this podcast about a month ago. We both seem to believe at that time that this fight would happen on November 19th. It seems highly unlikely to say the least that that's going to happen on November 19th. What is going on right now with these negotiations?

Well, they're still negotiating. that's that's what's happening uh you know they keep assuring people and by they i even mean errol spence errol spence has tweeted himself that the fight's happening don't worry it's next don't worry um you know terence crawford hasn't said as much quite as uh as erl spence but you know people internally are saying everybody calm down the fight is going to happen it's it's taking longer than we thought there are a lot of things at play here in terms of splits and and contract details that we're not going to everyone privy to. It is going to come together. Both guys want the fight. Certainly, Terrence Crawford would appear to have less appetizing options, I would say, than Errol Spence does.

I mean, Spence has more options. Of course, nothing is appealing as Terrence Crawford. But he does have more options on the PBC side. But I think both guys really want the fight. You know, they're working out these, a lot of these details that, you know, so, you know, Terence Crawford wants full transparency, which, why shouldn't he get full transparency? He's, He's taking a gamble here on a percentage, so of course he should have full transparency in terms of what all the numbers are. I think the fight will eventually come together. Now, maybe we don't see it until February. You know, and I don't love Terrence Crawford coming into this fight off of what would then be a 14-month layoff.

I don't like it. But, you know, he didn't fight for a year from the time he fought Kellbrook, which wasn't all that much of a fight, until the time he fought Sean Porter. And I got to say, he looked pretty damn good. So maybe at this point in his career, he's 35 years old, and he's not one of these guys. You know, Terrence Crawford, when he's out of training camp, I mean, he's not blowing up in weight or anything. I saw Terrence Crawford a few weeks ago at the Shakur-Stevenson fight. He looked like he always looks. You know, he doesn't get out of shape.

He's not a guy who, you know, drinks and parties and those crazy in between fights and all that kind of stuff. You know, he spends a lot of time with his kids and all that kind of stuff in between fights. So he's not abusing his body, and I don't think that he's someone who might pay as much of a price for there being this long of a layoff between the two fights as maybe someone else. But ideally, you'd have a little more activity than 15 months going into a fight that's going to be as difficult as the fight against Earl Spence. So why do you think this has been so complicated? I mean, Stephen Espinoza said something to the effect of, I don't know why. Have you met Terence, Crawford? Well, I mean, look, I'm not going to fault turns.

I'm not, but either, but he, look, he's not, he, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, it's just, I just, you know, Stephen Espinoza seemed to suggest that like, you know, this November 19th wasn't really the targeted date as much as people said it was. I disagree. I mean, that's everything I was told was that was the targeted day for, for months now. This has been kind of what they've been looking at. And we have seen Keith so much reporting dating back to like August like it's right there it's right there it's right there and yet here we are in mid-October and we're not there and we still don't really know exactly what's preventing us from getting there now I know you you and I talk to a lot of the same people I'm sure

that you know I hear a lot of it's being put on Terrence Crawford like the the minutia that Crawford wants transparency on and that's his choice he's this is the biggest fight of Terence Crawford's career, he's going to want to make sure that he maximizes his money in a situation like this. What I can't seem to really get an answer to or really be sure about is if these obstacles are unable to be overcome. Like you mentioned Spence saying, don't worry, it's going to happen next. You know, other people involved are saying it's going to happen next. But like, when do we start to worry about it? Like the first date is already blown. And we've got to be kind of, If we're not, unless you, I don't know exactly what the biggest obstacle is here.

I don't know. It obviously has something to do with money, but I don't know what the biggest obstacle is in preventing this fight from being finalized. Because clearly, they've made good progress on it. They just can't get past that final hurdle. You know, I just to follow up on what I said before, I'm not faulting Terrence Crawford for wanting full transparency and squeezing as much money out of this fight as humanly imaginable because it's the biggest fight of his career. He's 35 years old. And of course, you're going to want things done. You want every eye dotted and every T-cross,

particularly because he's coming at it from the perspective of a non-PBC fighter moving into the B.C. universe. And of course, he views Al Heyman and Errol Spence as aligned against him. So, of course, he's going to be skeptical. And I'm not saying that Al-Hamond's trying to screw him or anything. I'm just saying that, you know, he's rightfully skeptical because he's not their guy. He's not the guy they built from the ground up. He was a top-rank guy.

And now he's a free agent, as we all know. So I don't blame him for that. But what I would say as it relates, Chris, to November 19th being the date or February, whatever, it really doesn't matter. There's no deadline. I mean, because unless either one of these guys or both of them get fed up with the negotiations and just say, I'm going to fight, you know, Keith Thurman or I don't know who Terrence Crawford would fight that would make any sense. That's not on the PBC side. But, you know, unless they do that and kind of throw their hands. hands up and discussed, this patience is not the strongest virtue of the boxing Twitterverse

for sure. Or boxing fans, we want everything, or boxing people, you want everything right now in the immediate. But it's going to take a little while. And if the fight happens in February, if the fight happens in March, it's going to be a great fight. It's annoying to have, especially from our perspective, because we're, you know, whereas most negotiations were given a little more of a window into what's going on. They've been very tight-lipped about this. And the more tight-lipped they are, usually the more sensitive the negotiations are, but also the more progress they're typically making. Now, this has taken a long time. I'm not disputing that, but it is probably the biggest non-heavyweight fight in boxing. You can certainly argue, and I think we've

discussed this on the podcast before, that from a commercial standpoint, Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis might actually do more pay-per-view buys. think that's a fair argument to make. But it's a huge fight, right? Two undefeated welterweight champions, this has been brewing for three or four years, I guess, four years or whatever it is. Not quite on the Pachiao,

Mayweather level, because nothing will maybe ever be on that level again. But I just, you know, I would preach patience to people. I understand why it gets, you know, you go on our website and every day, there's something, you know, someone so said blah, blah, blah, and so and so said this. And, you know, and then you get the comment there. And it's a lot of back and forth and it's a lot of mental gymnastics. Nothing's really happening.

So I get that it's tough to wait it out. But basically that's just going to. And the other thing to keep in mind is there are simultaneous negotiations ongoing for the Tank Davis, Ryan Garcia, fight. And now which one is going to be first? Which one is going to be second? And Tank Davis has some out of the ring issues that could alter the date when he fights. And, you know, so there's a lot going on here. So because you're not going to put these two pay-per-view fights three weeks apart.

You know, they're two huge fights. You want them to be able to breathe on their own. And you don't want to come at people for whatever the price, the price tag on these fights is not going to be, it's not going to be 70 bucks. You know, so you don't want to come at people too soon in between the fights either. Yeah, you'll be talking close to $200 for two fights right there. I mean, it's going to be a big number. What you're right about patience. It does take time to put these fights together.

What I wonder, and even though Spence is out there saying, don't worry, it's going to be next, I wonder what his threshold is for being paid. Remember, he fought one time in 2021. He's going to fight one time in 2022. This is a guy that wants to be active, wants to stay busy against top guys, and has a marketable option in Keith Thurman out there as a potential opponent.

So I guess that's where I focus most of my attention. Like when does Spence say, you know what? This is taking too long. I don't know if it's going to happen in February now. Let's move on to Keith Derminal revisit in the summer of 2023 or something like that. Now, it doesn't seem like Spence is at that point right now, but I don't know, Keith. It seems like I feel like he's going to get there at some point. If there's not progress made over the next month or so as we get into November, December,

it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Spence decide to move ahead, at least. for one fight. Yeah, there has to be a point where you just walk away from it, I guess, but because at a point, there's nothing else to button up, right? I mean, there's nothing else to take care of. I've heard things as heap in the weeds as he, Terrence Crawford wants to make sure that he has control over where the bottled water is coming from and things like that. I don't know that that's true, but those are the kinds of things that are being floated around about every little thing that's being, you know, being discussed internally. So if that's, if that's the case, I mean, you could go over every single thing, humanly imaginable, right? Every scenario,

and that will take forever to go through that, you know. So what's your gut feeling then right now? Doesn't happen in November. I think that's safe to say that's off the table. Yeah. And in December, I feel the same way about December. You're getting close to Christmas and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I'd say February, you know, maybe for, again, I think it does depend on the Garcia-Tank Davis fight, which is also being negotiated now. And Ryan Garcia's father said yesterday, he was at the open workout with Franks Chess yesterday for this, Frank Sanchez is fighting on the wilder Hellenius undercard. And he told a few guys that the fight is definitely happening. That's what Ryan Garcia's dad said. Now, that's only one side of it, of course.

But if Tank Davis really wants the fight, and he has made it very clear that he does, if he does want the fight, there's no reason why it wouldn't happen. It's a huge fight. So if they're working, you know, that plays into the Spence Crawford scenario as well, because again, like I said, you want to space the events apart.

And then you're, imagine if you're out Haman and you're working on two deals that are very complicated with other. Crawford doesn't have a promoter, but he's working with another promoter and Golden Boy promotions. There's a lot going on at the same time. So I know no one's going to feel any sympathy

for Al Haman trying to negotiate two months. mega deals for fights that people really want to see. But that is happening in real time. Yeah, no question about that. So let's talk about Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis because as you point out, negotiations are ongoing between the two sides for a fight between two of the most marketable guys in boxing right now. There have been some optimistic social media posts from both Ryan and Tank. As you mentioned, Ryan's dad is out there striking an optimistic tone. Dates of December and January have been floated around.

I'll start on this one, Keith. I am getting more and more optimistic about seeing Tank and Ryan in the ring next. I am starting to, I talk to a lot of people about this fight pretty often, and it sounds like they're getting really close on the money. It sounds like they're right there on the weight, which will be somewhere between 135 and 140 pounds. What I don't know is have they resolved the broadcast issue? Because that is a huge stumbling block.

Showtime, obviously the distributor of Tank Davis's paper views. DeZone has been backing Ryan Garcia for the last fourth plus years. I don't know if they figure that out. And the people involved, whether it's Ryan's dad or managers or promoters, whoever, like I think they've been focused on getting, getting a deal done between the two fighters and maybe hoping that a deal can be struck with the broadcasters, whether it is a co-paper view, which I don't think is the likeliest outcome or, I don't know, some kind of shared agreement where Showtime gets U.S. broadcast right,

DeZone, which is global, takes global broadcast rights. Maybe there's something on the back end for DeZone. I don't know the answer to that question. But I am feeling cautiously optimistic that Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis are going to fight. It may not be December. January, I think is possible. I'm feeling – boxing does this to me, but I'm feeling pretty good about Ryan and Tank. How are you feeling about where those talks stand?

Yeah, you know, I feel optimistic about it because I think from Giovante Davis's perspective, he needs this fight now. I mean, how many guys, look, could they go back and do an ESOC Cruz rematch? Yeah, sure. They could. I mean, he's done reasonably decent pay-per-view numbers against people that ordinarily would not fight on pay-per-view because he's that big of a draw. And he obviously is a draw at the gate.

He is lowered big crowds to arenas all over the country. I've been there for the fights. And these are legitimate gate receipts that they're producing here. So he's, you know, multi-million dollar gates. So he's a real draw. But I think from Javante Davis's perspective, personally, he's going to turn 28 years old next month. And he is tired of hearing that now saying that he fought no one is a little strong. I mean, that's a, that's a reach.

I mean, he, you know, he beat Jose Padraza, but that was five years, five and a half years ago. Pedraza's, you know, turned into a two-weight world champion. He saw Cruz as a good fighter. I mean, he's not an elite level fighter. I saw him struggle against Thomas Matisse. I was there. I saw it on Showbox, you know. But so he's a tough guy.

He's a bulldog, and he can punch. And he gave Tank a tougher fight than people were expecting. And Giovante Davis had a hand injury going into the fight. All that's true. But if he wants to prove it. Now, you know as well as I do. If he goes and knocks Ryan Garcia out, everyone's going to say, oh, well, Ryan Garcia hadn't fought anybody.

Blue Campbell's not any good and, you know, he's chins up in the air and he's a, you know, he's an Instagram star. He's not a real, he's going to deal with that if he goes and knocks Ryan Garcia out. You do, come on, we know that, right? That's not going to be, well, it's not going to be fair, but that's going to happen.

I don't know if it'll be that, you think it'll be that bad. Like, look, Ryan Garcia. There's holes in Ryan Garcia's resume as well, Chris. I mean, there's, come on. Plenty of holes in him. I think the, the reason I can be somewhat more sympathetic sympathetic to Ryan Garcia is that he's four years younger. and he has fought Luke Campbell and he just beat a hobby effort.

Like he's, if he was 28 years old with the same type of resume, I'd be just as critical of Ryan as I have been of tank. I don't know that, I don't know they won't get credit for beating Ryan. Sure, people will, there'll be, there'll be a faction of people that say the things that you're saying.

But Ryan would, in my mind, instantly become the best opponent that Jervantes beat. Like, I think he'd immediately rise above, you know, Benavides and whoever else is on that resume. Like, wouldn't you? Would you, or would you, where would you put Ryan on that list? Yeah, look, again, there are holes in his, I'm not saying Luke Campbell's not a good fighter. He is. You know, he was a better amateur fighter than he was a professional fighter. But that's the best win on his resume. Hey, he, look, he beat what was left of Javier Fortuna, let's be honest, right? It's a good one. win. It's a good win, but

Fortuna had been beaten up before. He's an older guy. Jojo Diaz took, Joe Joe Deas took the last of his hobby about tuna. That was a year prior. Yeah. I'm not trying to crap on Ryan Garcia here. I mean, the kids, he's a huge puncher. He clearly

has, like Giovante Davis, has a huge following away from boxing. You know, he's a transcendent kind of fighter and all. And it's a huge fight. And anytime we can get it, what is considered a huge fight that draws attention outside of our ever-shinking world of boxing, it's great for the sport. And that fight will do that. So I just hope that it happens.

And look, yeah, he probably, yeah, I guess to answer your question, I've gone that in a very roundabout way, I apologize for that. To answer your question, he probably will be the best win on his resume. But I'll say this, if Isok Cruz fought Ryan Garcia, he'd be a live underdog in that fight for sure. He can punch, you know. He can really, he's a tough guy and he can punch. And he'd favor Ryan Garcia, bigger, you know, bigger puncher, the bigger guy probably.

But that's probably a better win than Geronti Davis is getting credit for, particularly because he was hurt. But look, he's the one who decided to go into the fight with an injury, so that's on him. But yeah, so probably. probably Garcia is the biggest one. Let's just hope from a commercial standpoint for the health of the sport, let's just hope it happens.

And if we get ultimately, Chris, with all this back and forth and all of the time that fans feel has been wasted with the negotiations and the back and forth, etc, if we wind up getting Dravante Davis against Ryan Garcia and Terrence Crawford against Errol Spence within a two-month span in early 20 years, I don't know what more you can ask for other than that. Yeah, I agree.

And I do think there's motivation on both sides to get a deal done. As I said, I don't think there are the financial hurdles that exist with the Crawford Spence negotiations. I just to reiterate, I just don't know yet how they're going to handle distribution, how they handle the broadcast. That to me is the biggest obstacle to overcome and not a, not an income. considerable one because look, I understand people in boxing bizarrely root for networks. I don't really understand why. The root for promoters. I don't really understand why. But if you look at him both sides, Showtime has invested millions in Giovante Davis. They deserve to be involved in the biggest fight of his career. DeZone has invested millions in Ryan Garcia.

They deserve to be involved in the biggest fight of his career. I don't know, I don't know if they figured out how that obstacle is able to be overcome. But I'm optimistic because both these guys want the fight. And if they can agree to a deal, that might put enough pressure on the networks to get something done. That might, that to me is a reason to be optimistic that we see that fight happen. And you're right. If we get that fight, if we can find a way to get Spence Crawford in the first quarter of 2023, it's a hell of a start for boxing in that year.

All right. Let's talk about a couple of fights happening this weekend. Devin Haney is back in Australia to face George Cambosis in his contract. actually obligated rematch. The buildup, Keith, has been quieter than what we saw in the first fight largely because Cambosis has not said much. Haney won a wide decision in the first fight earlier this year. In your mind, is there any reason to believe that this rematch will play out any differently? Well, I don't know that the result will be any different, but I would sure hope that George Cambosus approaches this fight in a different way because I'd have to say that trying to outbox

Devin Haney was the unwiseest strategic move of 2022. Didn't exactly go according to planned. And he didn't make many adjustments in the fight. So I think he's going to come into this fight and he's going to try to rough up Devin Haney because that's his only path to victory. It's the only you're not outbock. He's not capable of outboxing Devin Haney. So if he goes in there and tries to employ the same tactics,

that he did on June 5th. Well, you know, a lot of people are going to be changing the channel by the third round because if there's no reason to watch it, you've already seen it play out over 12 rounds. So I've been led to believe that he is going to try to make this as physical, I'm not saying dirty, but he's going to try to rough Dev and hangy up because what other alternative does he have? I mean, what would make any sense for him to have some semblance of success in this fight than to do the complete opposite of what he tried to do in the first fight?

He's not capable of doing that. So he's gone underground, so to speak. He's not doing interviews even with the Australian press from what I've been led to believe. But I think part of the lack of buzz for the second fight is because clearly the only reason that it's happening is because Devin Haney is contractually obligated to do it. And by the way, he deserves a lot of credit for having, he wanted the opportunity to fight for the other three titles. But he didn't just agree to go fight him once in Australia. He agreed to go fight him twice in Australia. he's being well compensated for it, most fighters would not have done that. So all the people that

thought Devin Haney was not a real champion and didn't really want the fights that everyone else wanted. Well, he's the one who went and made, Tiafima Lopez took tough fights as well, obviously he fought Rovichenko, but he made it happen and he didn't have to make it happen in this way. So he's only gone to Australia a second time here in four and a half months or whatever because he had to. And I think the lack of buzz for this second fight is strictly based on the non-competitive nature

of the first fight. Even if George Cambosis was screaming from the mountaintops that he was going to do X, Y, and Z to Devin Haney, I don't really think people care all that much because they're going to want to see it on Saturday night. So he has the opportunity to go win his belts back and

prove that he is on the same level as Devin Haney or at a higher level. I don't foresee him doing that, but I didn't think he would beat Tiafima Lopez. And while Tiafima Lopez clearly had a lot of physical problems going into the ring, it was incumbent on him to pull out if he couldn't function at a championship level and he didn't pull out. So you got to give Cambosis credit for pulling off. I think Tiafima Lopez was a 10 to one favorite going into that fight.

It might have went down a little bit before the fight. But he was a huge favorite. He went in there, pulled off an upset. So he's done this before. But I don't have any reason to believe that Devin Haney has compromised going into this fight the way that Tiafimo Lopez apparently was. So I would expect it to play out similarly on Saturday night, and for Devin Haney then to move forward and fight

Facilio Mucchenco next, assuming Romichenko beats Jermaine Ortiz in a couple weeks. Now, it feels like Devin Haney is in peak condition right now. When I talked to him for this show last week, he was eating while we were talking. So it doesn't seem like he's having kind of weight issues. His dad is with him in Australia now, which was obviously an issue. going into the first fight.

And I think you're right. I think George Cambosis is going to try to make it a more physical fight, which is the right thing to do because, as you said, he's not the boxer that Devin Haney is. And sometimes when you challenge the manhood of Devin Haney, he wants to respond in kind. He wants to show you that he's more man than you, that he's as physical as you,

that he's a bigger puncher than perhaps he actually is. So the strategy is smart, if that's the way Cambosis goes. I just don't think he's physically able to pull it off. I don't think he's not this big physical guy. He's going to be smaller, really, than Devin Haney. He was a big 135 going into the ring. So I just don't know if he's going to be able to do it. As much as I like Cambosis on a personal level and respect him for what he did in that Teofimo fight,

he did exactly what he said he was going to do. He went out. He knocked him down the first round, and he took the first round, and he took the fight to him. I respect that. Is he a one-hit wonder? Like, you know, is he the guy that beat Teufima Lopez? Or is he more the guy that was life and death with Lee Selby?

That was life and death with Mickey Bay, you know, two solid but not spectacular fighters. Is he is the guy that Devin Haney beat who George Cambosis is, which is a very good fighter, but not a fighter on the level of Devin Haney. This is a big moment for George. Maybe he's going to prove us wrong once again. He already did it once. Maybe he's going to be capable of doing it once again. But I just don't see.

I think Haney's just too skilled and will outbox him. By the way, I just want to give Devin Haney credit here. Like I love what he's done with his career, right? Like he starts off as kind of independent operator. He's on Showtime, on Showbox coming up that way, signs that he earned, makes a bunch of money, gets a few decent fights towards the end of that contract. And now he's got, he gets two fights this year.

Yes, he has to go to Australia to take them, but he's going to make $4 million for this fight against George Camposa. He's a couple of million for the last fight. He's the undisputed champion at 135, and at age 23, he's going to go into 2023 with a chance to fight Vasily Lomachenko, Shakur Stevenson, guys like that, and really burnish his resume at a very young age.

In an era, Keith, where so many fighters are fighting once and not fighting good fights, and the resumes are so weak. Good for Devin Haney for kind of seizing control of his career. I know he didn't want to leave Eddie Hern. He had a good relationship with Eddie Harn, but he understood that to get the fights that he wanted, he had to separate and go with a different promoter. He did, and now here he is.

Like, with all the belts at 135, with money, and with a chance to fight big fights moving forward. I mean, I just hope, I wish, really, that more fighters took this approach and said, look, we're not going to tie herself to one network, one promoter, one anything. We're just going to look for the biggest and best opportunities. Because Keith, whenever guys do that, it often works out. At the highest level, like Floyd Mayweather did it, Miguel Cotto bounced around from

promoter to network for years towards the end of his career to get the biggest fights. Now Devin Haney's doing it. And I hope more guys look to that because Devin Haney is, to me, an example for how, not just young fighters, but how all fighters should operate. Yeah. And in terms of broadening his fan base and everything, too, now he's now fighting on ESPN, which has a reach. I mean, you know, obviously it's available in 80-ish million homes in the United States. And his fights against Cambosis, both fights were shown on the network.

They were not behind a paywall. I mean, you obviously have to pay for ESPN as part of the cable package, but you didn't have to, you don't have to pay for ESPN Plus for the opportunity to see the fight. So, you know, it was a good move on that in that sense, too. And now if he, let's just say he, if he goes and fights Facilio Lomachenko, now I do think if he fights Lomachenko, I believe the fight will be on ESPN pay-per-view. That's what I've been led to believe from the very beginning. That was the, you know, reasonable, reasonable.

But, you know, he still will have had three big fights, for which he was paid a lot of money, of course. But like you said, it's not always easy separating from a promoter or from a, in this case, a streaming service that had done right by you over the years. And sometimes, you know, fighters, for all intents and purposes, should always do what's best for them because, look, when you, you know, someone knocks Devin Haney out next year or then he gets knocked out a couple of times or whatever, and no one's going to care. So you got to, you got to maximize your earning potential while it's there. Well, he's still very young, obviously. He's 23 years old. but yeah. And the one thing I would say, Chris, is I do think that if he fights Lomachenko,

which everyone seems to think is going to happen because I do not see Lomacheco losing to Jemaine Ortiz. But assuming that fight happens, win or lose, I would see Devin Haney moving up to 140 for the next fight because as you said before, he was eating when you were on the phone with him, which is a good sign. Assuming he wasn't doing it for show is a good sign that he was doing that while he's trying to make weight. But he's a, you know, he's like five, nine and a half like that.

You know, it's not easy for him to make 135 pounds. So I would think as he gets older and his body matures here, I think, especially if he beat Slo Machenko, you know, then he'll have beaten Cambosis and back-to-back fights, beat a legendary three-division champion who was a top pound for pound guy for a very long time. You know, you have nothing left to prove at 135. I know people obviously would want to see him. Fight Shakur Stevenson.

We all want to see that. But even Shakur said to me a few weeks before, I think it was when they had the original press conference for his fight against Robson-Cin-Cin-Says out, he said it always seems like Devin and I are a division apart. And he said, I do think we'll eventually fight, but I'm not sure that it's going to be at 135 pounds. And this was before he didn't make weight and lost his titles at the scale and all. But he had planned to move to 135 anyway. But he seemed to think that they would fight maybe at 140 or maybe even 147 one day as opposed to fighting at 135. It makes a lot of sense for it to wait a little while longer because if Devin beats or whatever happens in the Lomachenko fight, win or lose, you go up to 140 and you're a marketable commodity against Attea Fima Lopez, against a Ryan Garcia, against a Regis Pro Gray. There are some big names right now at 140.

So he's got everything kind of lined up. And I was talking to him about this last week. It just feels like after a pretty frustrating last couple of years of his career where he couldn't. get Teofima in the ring. He couldn't get Ryan Garcia in the ring. Now he's got the belts. He's got money. And he's got those opportunities

to showcase his talent, which is really all he's been asking for. Like he's been looking for those opportunities and now he's going to get him. By the way, the disrespect you're showing Jermaine Ortiz, the pride of Worcester, Massachusetts is... I'm not, I'm good.

Listen, good for Jim. Look where he came for him. He was fighting on Showbott. He goes and beats Jamel Herring in a fight that, you know, Jamel's toward the end of his career, of course, and, you know, probably better suited for a way class lower. But that's a good win for him.

I spoke to Jermaine Ortiz on the phone last week, nice kid, of his great opportunity for him and his family and everything. But let's be honest. I mean, Lomachenko is, I understand your Massachusetts bias and all. But, you know, that's a tall order. I know Silly Lomitanko is not tall, but it's a tall order for sure for him to come into the ring and beat a fighter of that magazine.

Chris, can I say one thing, too? I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said about Devin Haney. I also think that George Cambosis deserves a lot of credit because George Camposus could have beaten Tiafima Lopez, taking a victory lap in Australia, fought whichever guy, there was an Australian fighter that was ranked in the top, whatever of the whatever. And he could have fought him in a stadium or, you know, Rod LaVere Arena or whatever it was and done, you know, made a lot of money. And like I said, taken a victory lap and then come and. and taking a real fight, so to speak, around now. And he said, no, I want to go. I want what he wanted Lomachenko, when Lomachenko was in the valet, you know, whatever.

I'll fight Devin Haney. Bring Devin Haney over here. I'll fight him. You know, of course, Haney was obligated to do the rematch in Australia and immediate rematch in Australia. But, yeah, Bose has deserved some credit, too. I mean, he didn't fight the smartest fight on June 5th. But to take that fight when he could have, you know, he could have fought twice in Australia

and no one would have blinked probably, right? And he took a very tough fight, and he paid the consequences for it. And now he gets his opportunity to win back his titles. You know, look, who knows, right? I mean, you'd have to favor Haney to do something similar to what he did four months ago. But, you know, he catches him with the right shot.

You know, who knows, you know? You're right. Look, he caught Teafimo with a good shot, knock him down the first round. Maybe you can catch Haney. And as we said at the top discussing that fight, You know, you want to try to get Devin Haney into a street fight. Like, you want to make it more of a brawl than a boxing match.

Because I think George Cambosus could theoretically win a brawl with Devin Haney. I don't believe he can win a boxing match. I think Devin is just too skilled, too long, to everything for George. So in that sense, I am interested to see the style of the fight. And if it looks anything different, like the first one. All right, let's talk about the fight you're going to be at this weekend. Deonti Wilder, he will end a one-year layoff when he takes on Robert Hellenius. Wilder has been his usual outspoken self over the last few weeks.

Some interesting claims about Tyson Fury, about his Hall of Fame status, about a lot of different things. He's talked a lot about the second reign of his. That's going to be fun as he approaches 37 years old. I guess the question is, what are your expectations for Deonté Wilder at this stage? What are you looking for from him as he resumes his career? Well, I think what Saturday night is about more than anything, Chris is how is Deonté Wilder going to react to what was an indisputable, vicious, violent knockout loss? There's no excusing this one away. There's no, you know, my suit way, you know, my costume

weighed too much and his gloves were altered and the Dorel brothers were conspiring with people in the crap. Yeah, come on. He lost and he put up a hell of an effort, man. I mean, he almost knocked Tyson Fury out again, he had him down twice in the fourth round, fought through what I thought. I thought both guys in that fight really fought, fought through some severe fatigue because it's just two huge dudes,

you know, laying on each other and hammering away at each other. And then, you know, Giante Wilder was very tired. Tyson Fury showed a lot of fortitude and resilience and came back and viciously knocked him out. Now, Wilder's never been in that position. He's never been in this position that he's going into on Saturday night because he had all those excuses after the second fight, after the rematch, he excused it away.

He was knocked down multiple times in the fight, but he was finished on his feet, argued that he should have continued. There was no emphatic, conclusive ending to that fight. Whereas the third fight, you can't excuse that away. You can't rationalize that. And even in the depths of your own mind, you can't come away from that saying he's not going to say this because there's a lot of ego involved there, but he knows that Tyson Furrier, he was just better than him.

There's no two ways about it. He's not going to say it, but that's a fact. So while he almost won the fight, he knocked him down twice and made it a very entertaining slugfest. How does he react mentally? Well, like physically, I'm sure he's fine because while he's going to be 37 years old the week after the fight, he doesn't have as much wear and tear on him as your normal 37-year-old

because he started boxing so late. He didn't have nearly as many amateur fights as a lot of these guys. You know, he got beat up in the second fight a little bit, but it only lasted six and a half rounds or so. So not as much of beating as I think he took in this or punishment as I think he took in the third fight. So not a ton of mileage, but, man, that's got to, you know, he's the guy who remember, you know, he's running.

He's the knockout artist of boxing. You know, he's the most pulverizing puncher in the history of this bea-a-a-a-di, all this stuff, you know, which to some degree was true. you know, hardest puncher in the history of sport. There's no really way to quantify that, but certainly one of them. You knocked out almost everyone he fought, so there's no disputing that.

So you go from having this aura of invincibility like Mike Tyson had once upon a time. Then it kind of gets beaten out of you a little bit. He's still a devastating puncher, right? So I expect him to come through this fight, I don't want to say with no problems whatsoever, but let's be honest. like Heleneas is there to be hit.

He can punch. He's a big strong guy, but he's there to be hit. He's slow. He barely moves his head. And Deonté Wilder is nothing short of a devastating puncher. So I would expect him to knock Robert Hellenius out on Saturday night. But what happens if Heleneas, who was getting, who Konaki honestly was beating up in the first couple rounds of the first fight, and all of a sudden just lands something, oh, oh, whoa.

You know, what if that happens? What happens if he does that to Deonti Wilder? How does Deonti Wilder react to that? That's what I think Saturday night is about more than anything, because we know he's still a devastating puncher. He looks like he's in good shape. He actually said that he's going to come in tomorrow at the way, and he's going to come in significantly lighter than the career high,

23080 weighed for their third fight, right? So all of those things seem to be in line for Wilder to look good on Saturday. The question that I have is when Robert Hellenius inevitably clips him with a shot, what happens? That's what it's, let's say it's worth $75,000 necessarily. But that's what Saturday night's about. And one other thing, Chris, because I understand the frustration of people saying, like, you know, why is he fighting Heleneas and blah, blah, blah. I don't have a problem with him fighting Robert Hellenius.

This is his first fight in over a year. He's coming off a devastating knockout loss. Heleneas is coming off back-to-back wins against Konaki, which are very credible wins. And the other thing is PBC's plan all along was for Deonté Wilder. Now they thought he would be defending his WBC title because they felt like he would beat Tyson Fury. The plan all along from PBC's perspective was for Deonté Wilder to fight Adam Kornoski at Barclay Center. Because Konoski is from Brooklyn.

They would have drawn a huge crowd. The Polish people would have come out and droves. I mean, it was sold the building out. It would have a great event, blah, blah, blah. Well, he's now fighting the guy who beat Kwanowski twice. That makes perfect sense. I mean, this is not surprising. Like you could have predicted,

last October 10th, if he would say, okay, Deontovier's going to come back and fight, you know, nine months from now, a year from now. I think he's going to fight Heleneas. I don't, that would,

connecting those dots was not difficult. And that's ultimately, and also Heleneas was owed a seven-figure payday after beating Kronofsky's second. second time, well, who are you going to pay him seven figures to fight? Exactly, besides Deonte White. Yeah, look, I think Heleneas is a perfectly reasonable opponent for Deonté Wilder, for all the reasons you said. I don't think, like, I think the, I think his wins are more a product of Adam Kovnoski's weaknesses than they are necessarily a resurgence of Robert

Hellenius, I think he's still the same guy that was stopped by Gerald Washington, still the same guy that was stopped by Yewant Duopas. But he does have those two wins, which makes him credible in this situation. And Deonté Wilder, if he's anything close to the guy we've seen in recent years, he should score a devastating knockout win. He should. That should be the outcome of this fight. I am curious to see kind of how it plays out, though.

Like, is it a drawn-out war where, you know, Hellenius lands some big shots? and Wilder struggles with him at times. That'll tell me a little bit something about where Wilder is as he approaches that 37th birthday. So I'm curious to see in how that plays out in that respect. As far as kind of the future of Wilder, we don't need to get into the Hall of Fame debate necessarily. That will come whenever his career is over. But look, I think this next, you know, rain, as he likes to call it, is important for his legacy. because look, the chapter of his career that included the WBC heavyweight title that included the three fights against Tyson Fury, that's over.

Like, you know, it was a good run. It wasn't a great run because he didn't get a win over Fury and his best win up until that point was the back-to-back wins over Luis Ortiz. He's going to have some opportunities now, Keith, if he gets through Hellenius to get some of those legacy-defining fights. if he wins, presumably there's a fight against Andy Ruiz to be made in the first half of 2023. Anthony Joshua is still out there. Tyson Fury has even come out and said, look, I'll fight Wilder a fourth time if he becomes my mandatory for that title. I'm not so sure that's, I don't know if we really need to see that necessarily, but, you know, there are real opportunities for Wilder to establish the legacy that he believes he has, if that makes any sense.

This is like a stretch for him. The next year, year and a half, where he can really establish himself as one of the best heavyweights of this era. He's already one of the biggest, if not the biggest puncher of this era at any weight. But in terms of legacy, names on his resume, quality wins, this feels like his opportunity.

It feels like that window, Keith, strangely, is now wide open. Yeah, it's interesting, Chris, because I do see the Ruiz fight. fight, everyone sees the Ruiz fight is very makeable. It makes perfect sense. They've headlined back-to-back Fox Sports pay-per-view shows here for a reason because you know, that you would think that they're on a collision, of course, to fight each other. Now, that might not be the fight that Wilder wants or that Ruiz wants, but from the PBC perspective, that's the fight you could make. You'd have two former heavyweight champions. You know, you could put it on pay-per-view. It, you know, it wouldn't be the biggest paper-view fight that you could make. But, you know, this is the guy who knocked Joshua out against, you know,

a long-reaning heavyweight champion. It makes perfect sense. Those other fights, Chris, I don't know that those, those fights happen. I don't believe for one second, excuse me, that Joshua was going to fight Deonté Wilder. I don't believe it. It doesn't make sense. If he could go fight Fury and, you know, we know what just happened there, but let's just say they could go make that fight or he could fight someone else. I don't see Eddie Hearn putting him in the ring with Wilder because he's just such a huge

puncher. And then what are you getting out of it at this point? Like he doesn't have the WBC title. He's already been beaten by Tyson Fury. And if the Fury fight is really available for Joshua at some point, I would focus on making that. It just makes much more business sense, particularly in the United Kingdom. Now, I know Ussick says that he's coming to the fight and he wants to fight wilder. Why in the world would Alexander Usoc come off of the fight against Joshua and then fight wilder?

It makes no sense. Go fight Fury. All the titles are at stake. You'll go make an enormous amount of money. What purpose would it serve? From the outside looking in, what purpose would it serve exactly for Usik to go fight Wilder,

the guy who Fury beat back-to-back fights, knocked them out viciously in the third fight? What purpose does that serve except perhaps getting clipped by the biggest puncher of this error and getting knocked out? It makes no sense. Am I being there, right?

I mean, big financial sense. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of posturing going on right now in the heavyweight division where, you know, people threaten, you know, Ousick has got, like you said, showing up to the Wilder fight, Fury, talking about facing Joshua. I think ultimately Fury and Ousick get together

in the first half of 2023, and that is decided one way or the other. Wilder, let's see what happens with this fight. Let's see what happens with Andy Ruiz, and then we'll see where the belts are at that point and what the landscape ultimately looks like. All right, last thing for you, Keith. Over in the UK, the women's card that was scuttled after the death of the queen last month, it is back on.

I got to tell you, I am very interested in this card. You get Clarissa Shields against Savannah Marshall at the top. But the fight that interests me the most is this Michaela Mayor Alicia Bumgardner, which quite frankly should be a main event in the U.S. on ESPN somewhere. It's like that's spicy a matchup. You see these two just going back and forth, whether it's on social media. They were at the press conferences this week, at the fighter workouts this week, kind of nose to nose. They do not like each other, Keith.

And this is a quality, relevant fight at 130 pounds, which will pretty firmly establish who the top fighter in that weight classes. So Shields Marshall, Mayor Bumgardner, which one of the two are you most looking forward to? Well, personally, I'm more looking forward to the Shields Marshall fight just because there's the history there. you know, Clarissa Shields, look, I don't see any way that she's not the best pound for pound fighter in women's boxing. I know there are people who said that Katie Taylor, I don't get it. I mean, Clarissa Shields is a three-weight world champion. In her first professional fight fought someone who later became the undisputed super middleweight champion in her first professional fight and beat her. She's barely lost a round in any of her fights. She's not a knockout puncher. you know, maybe some of that is related to two-minute rounds and such, but she's fighting a big puncher.

You know, a woman, the only woman to have ever beaten her in a boxing match. So that alone, and she's going into her home country to do it, that to me is more intriguing just from the boxing standpoint. Now, I didn't think I would have been able to say this three or four months ago, but there was actually more animosity between Michaela Mayer and Alicia Baumgartner than Koressa Shealds and Savannah Marshall. I would not have predicted that, but there clearly is. So that's going to be an excellent fight as well. But I just think the more, in my opinion, more meaningful fight is Cloresa Shields against Savannah Marshall because she's, again, the only woman who was ever beaten her. And I mean, seriously, other than her being knocked down by Hannah Gabriel's in the early,

I think it was the first round of that fight, has anyone come close to touching the rest of Shields? I mean, she embarrassed. She didn't beat Christina Havana. She embarrassed her. He was an undefeated long-reaning world champion, and she couldn't lay a glove on her for 10 rounds. So she's an elite-level fighter. I think if you ask Clarissa in a quiet moment, you know, maybe she's she gets carried away on social media sometimes. You know, like she's, but she's not, but she's not afraid to voice her opinion and to and to further establish her brand.

all of that is what's helped make her a great fighter. So, again, if there's someone better pound for pound that has proven it over the last few years in women's boxing than her, I'd really like a real explanation for that because Katie Taylor, you could argue loss to Delphine pursuant in the first fight. You could certainly argue that. She almost got knocked out by Amanda Serrano in the last fight. No one's doing that to now. Correso's in with a big puncher. I mean, that's the whole point of the fight, right? I mean, she's, you know, she's not the boxer that the rest of the shield is.

There's no two ways about that, but she can't punch. So I think the intrigue in that fight, for me personally, does it a little more than the mayor of Bungarten a fight, but that's a very good fight. And it's a unification fight in the 130-pound division. And then what appears to be genuine hatred among them, between them is, wow. I mean, did she call her a Karen today? Is that what happened to the president? I think so. You know, it's some, there's some language being thrown around.

getting heated out there in the UK. And the one thing I would say, Chris, that's unfortunate for this, for this event is what, of course, you know, the queen dying is a once-in-a-lifetime situation. And of course, they have their protocols there. You just, you just feel bad for the, for the women who had trained and gone through an entire training camp and they're ready to weigh in and they go through a press conference even. And they don't even know up until the minute, you know, that they're supposed to be in that the fights off. I mean, that's a tough turnaround to then go back to the states, go back to training camp, then come back to, you know, that's, you know, that's. that's a lot to go through, you know. Savannah Marshall is the best thing that could ever happen to Clareza Shields

because Katie Taylor had Amanda Serrano, like have the natural rival that led to the great fight this past spring. In fact, Katie Taylor has had a depth of quality opponents that Clarissa Shields has not had, which is not to dismiss Franchon. Cruz Dazern or Hannah Gabriel's or Christina Hammer. But Clarissa Shields is just on a different level than that. Now, she might be on a different level than Savannah Marshall too. Like, Savannah Marshall has been knocking people out, but Clarissa is fully capable of just boxing circles

around her. But we won't know that until the end of the 10th round or whatever round it ends in this fight right now it's the most compelling and interested i've been in a cloresa shields matchup since she turned pro simple as and we we just haven't had that like there was for a couple of katie taylor fights whether it was to a lesser degree jessica mccaskell that was at 140 um delphine pursued the rematch obviously amanda serrano like we've been interested in katy taylor fights at a high level before the fight we haven't been as interested in Cloressa fights, even when she's fighting

for undisputed championships. This time we are, because Savannah Marshall has the amateur win, Savannah Marshall has knockout power, Savannah Marshall and Peter Fury are talking an enormous amount of shit and have been for months now. It's just exciting, Keith.

I love it. I love a natural rivalry like this, which I think will, I don't know what it does for Cloresa long term, but this will be her, if she wins, this will be her signature win. This will be, Even if she's won undisputed championships before,

and this is technically for the undisputed title at 160, this will be it. Whatever she's done 154, 168, this is her biggest fight. And it's because Savannah Marshall is such a natural rival to her. Absolutely. I agree, Chris. I mean, the intrigue is there because it's pure elite-level boxer against a huge puncher.

She's, of course, Savannah Marshall has fought a much lower level opposition overall than Bres of Shields has. but she's been knocking people out. She's 12 and 0 with 10 knockouts, I think so. You know, that's the intriguing. That's why I'm more, to answer your original question, that's why I'm more interested in it, because like you said,

Corresa Shield has been so dominant. Like you almost go into her fights thinking, all right, well, she's not a huge puncher or anything, but this is going to be a 10 rounds to nothing, whitewash and, you know, who's she going to fight next? Well, this is where everyone's wanted her to see her fight next for quite some time and now it's here it's going to be a fun saturday multiple good cards three different continents men's women's all sorts of good stuff is the kind of Saturday that

boxing needs after the last couple of weeks keith good luck at the fight at barclays on Saturday and always appreciate you coming on the show thanks chris i appreciate it man see soon and when we come back my conversation with caleb plant 2000 2008 2022 When it comes to the economy, those are some scary years. Dot com crash, housing crash, and the roller coaster we're going through right now. One thing is certain, it's a dangerous time to not know your numbers. But over 31,000 businesses have the confidence and clarity they need because they rely on NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system. NetSuite gives you visibility and control of your financials, inventory, HR, planning, and budgeting, so you can manage risk, get reliable,

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All right, Caleb Plant is the former IBF super middleweight champion on Saturday night. He is back for the first time since losing his title to Canelo Alvarez when he takes on Anthony Durel. It's a fight. You can see as part of the event, headlined by the heavyweight matchup between Deontay Wilder and Robert Hellenius and Caleb is here to talk about his fight maybe a couple of other things. So Caleb, it has been 11 months since your loss to Canello, the first loss of your pro career. What of those 11 months been like for you? Was it difficult to get past?

Was it easy? How would you describe it? Well, you know, it was obviously disappointing to lose. I don't get in. I don't think anybody gets in the boxing to lose. You know, with some of his other competitors, you know, it seemed like they almost put on. It just kind of showed up for a check. but obviously with, you know, everything I did, the success I had, it's not like I was showing up for a check.

So I was disappointed in losing, but that didn't discourage me from, you know, what I wanted to do moving forward in my career. Didn't discourage my confidence. You know, I'm not the type of person to sit around and look my wounds and feel sorry for myself. And, you know, that may have been my first loss in the ring, but, you know, I take many losses in life. And I've had the chance to bow out and, you know, say that this is too much for me. So, you know, one about a bad night of boxing out of 365 days isn't going to, you know, do anything to my confidence or discourage me from what I want to do. So it's been a minute since I've been in the ring. But, you know, shortly after the fight me and my team, we got back to work and, you know,

clean some things up, kept working a lot of things we had success with, and we're ready to fight. So you say you don't, you're not the kind of guy that sits around and licks his wounds. Are you the kind of guy that kind of obsesses over what you could have done? Like were you watching it back a whole bunch of times thinking about what you might have been able to do? No, I'm not the type of guy to look, you know, too much in the past. I look back at the fight. I've watched the fight multiple times. I know some of the things that I could have done better.

And, you know, moving forward, I have that experience under my belt now. and I can, you know, sharpen those things up on my team, like I said, and just keep moving forward. So talk to me about kind of using that experience. Are there things you have been able to take away from that experience that you believe will make you a better fighter moving forward? Absolutely, you know, being in that type of situation, being in that environment, in media, I never felt was too much for me,

the fight night, the crowd even, but, you know, experience. This isn't something that you can buy. You got to go through the fire to get it. I feel like I've done that. I feel like I've done that with Grace. You know, I went out on my shield. It's not like I just, I quit or anything, but I went out on my shield.

And I got a lot of respect for the fight after that. I got more respect after that fight after losing a fight than any fight that I'd ever won, which was crazy to me. But so, you know, these other big fights that I'm moving into, you know, that's priceless. I want to ask you about something Andre Ward said, recently. During an appearance on ESPN, he was asked about the resume of Canelo Alvarez. Here's what he said. It's tricky and it's complicated because on the surface, he's fought

everybody. He's done everything. He's taking all the risk. If you know what you're looking for and you look at some of those names he fought, he doesn't have a lot of prime names on his resume. That being said, I think Canello is a great talent. I think he's had a great career. And of course, he's a Hall of Famer, no doubt about that. But I don't know if, I think there's a a little bit more window dressing with his record than what people realize in his career. So you are one of those names, Caleb. You were undefeated and very much in your prime. You also have a relationship with Andre Ward. What's your reaction to that? Yeah, I mean, I think his answer was more detailed than just speaking generally of everyone that he's

ever fought. And I'm sure you know, with you being in part of boxing, I'm sure you know as well, know that as well, but for maybe some of the viewers at home, obviously, it's not like I'm old or out of my prime, only being 30. So I don't think that he meant that for every opponent that he's ever faced. I just think that he meant that for a handful or some of the opponents that he's fought. Yeah, certainly whether it was you, you were much in your prime, Callum Smith was in his prime, Billy Joe Saunders in his prime. He's faced some prime guys.

Would you agree? Say again? He seems like whether it's you, Billy Joe Saunders, Callum Smith, you know, during that run at Super Middleweight, he has faced some prime guys. Yeah, I'd say so. So you're going up against Anthony Durell in this fight, and I've got to be honest, Caleb.

I didn't see a Caleb plant Anthony Dorell war of words rising to this level. I was at that kickoff press conference in Brooklyn last month. And Dorel, he really went at you on a personal level. watching his interviews this week, and he says things like he doesn't like you, doesn't respect you, and even when this fight is over, he's not going to shake your hand. I mean, has this animosity that Dorel seems to have surprise you? I mean, it's not surprising just because, you know, from a distance, you can kind of see how he carries himself and, you know, the things, the antics he tries to pull before fights. I mean, even when he fought by two Jack years ago, at the way in,

just trying to get out, run after him, get all up in his face, acting like he was going to fight him. And, you know, same thing with Saki Obika. So, you know, I've been around boxing a long time, so nothing surprising me. But as far as, like, I was hanging out or kicking it, you know, I've never really even had an interaction with him. So if he thinks he hates me now, then, you know, come October 15th,

he don't have a lot of reasons that hate me. So it's almost like he's turned this whole thing into like some type of therapy session, talking about how he don't like me and nobody else. likes me and, you know, as if I would care about any of that. I'm not in boxing so that, you know, my competitors, the people across from me like me or, you know, I don't concern myself with that. I can concern myself with my team and focusing and staying on the straight and narrow. And, you know, but he's easily distracted by a lot of things. You always see him yelling at the

talking to the ref, crying the ref, talking to the crowd. And he, you don't need to be worried about how I carry myself or what I do. He should be focused on himself. And maybe if he focused on himself more throughout his career, he may have had a successful title fence along the way, but he's never had a successful title fence. I felt kind of like we're back at high school with some of that. Like, I don't like you and everybody else doesn't like you either. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like some high school drama to me. I don't concern myself with things like that. I'm focused on the task at hand. I'm a competitor. I'm a high-level competitor, world-class competitor, and, you know, I could give the shit less, you know, if people don't like me or, or, you know,

he says I'm an asshole because after the fight is done, you know, the way I carry myself or act, but I've always shook my competitors hands. I've always respected them for getting the ring with me, but then here he is saying that after the fight, he's not going to shake my hand. So, you know, kind of ironic. But he's an idiot. He's a dumb assing after this fight. He's going to be retired anyway, so it ain't really going to matter. Are you expecting a tough fight? I'm expecting a vicious ass woman, so. You have a new voice in your corner for this fight. Stephen Edwards, a well-known guy in boxing, worked with J. Rock Williams, former 154-pound champion, among others.

He will join your father in your corner on Saturday. Can you explain why you felt the need to kind of build out your team for this fight? Yeah, it was just kind of a situation that came about. And so, you know, there's a few guys in boxing whose opinion I respect on a level for them to, you know, be able to be in that position. And he's one of them. So he's even before we got together and he was on this team, he's someone who I would reach out to to ask about scenarios in boxing, you know, what he thinks about this scenario, what he thinks about that.

And he's got a really analytical approach to the game as well, you know, as do I. And so I really like that about him. His fight IQ is really high. He's also a boxing historian, which I respect. And, you know, so he came to Vegas and, you know, we got some work in. They went real well. I went to Philly a couple of times. I got some work in, and the chemistry has been great.

Even before, like I said, he got on the team, but obviously being on the team, the chemistry has been great between me, him, him and my dad and all three of us. So it's been real seamless. And so, you know, he's a perfect fit. He's a great coach. And we're excited to, you know, finish out his journey together. Was this a reaction to the Canelo loss?

Did you feel after that fight you needed to add something else to get to that next level? No. Last question for you. You've said many times, you want to get back to the top. You want the rematch with Canelo Alvarez. And are you willing to kind of face those top names and go out there and face those top guys to do that? You are, promotionally, in a great position. You're under the same banner as David Benavides, Jamal Charlo, among others, including Anthony Dorell.

A lot of guys, though, seem to be only fighting around once a year. How confident are you that you can be active enough to get. those fights to get back to the level where you want to be at? Well, right now I'm really just focused on the October 15th, you know, and handling business and fashion. You know, I don't think it would be wise to me right now to get too concerned with who I'm fighting next or how many times I need to be fighting or, you know, anything of that manner.

I'm really happy with how my career has been handled up until this point. And that's far with Al Heyman and Loose to Cubis and PBC, they've done a great job. So, you know, like you just said, I'm in a great position. I'm in one of the best positions in boxing. That's only with 22 fights. And that's a lot less than most of these guys. So I'm happy with where I'm at. But right now I'm just focused on the task of hand with this weekend, October 15th.

And then, you know, we'll look to move forward and see what's next for the future. Caleb, it's good to have you back, man. Glad to see in a position to get more big fights. And thanks for your time. Yes, sir. Thank you. And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandole. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple, Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Now is the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

Join today to get started with $150 in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing. This is a big boxing betting weekend for me. Three great cards, three different continents. I'm going to be gambling on boxing all weekend long. and I'm going to be doing it with my Fandul app.

FanDuel has all your favorite bets from the money line to point spreads to player props. You can combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout with a same game parlay. With live betting, you'll get updated odds on games that I've already started. Get paid your winnings fast with Fandul. All in an app that's safe, secure,

and super easy to use. Don't fumble your chance to get $150 in free bets, win or lose with promo code boxing. Make every moment more this season Fandul, official sports book partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandul. And this week, I am going to do something I have never done on this podcast. I am not only going to pick one fight, not two fights, not three fights.

I want to pick four fights. I am going to give you four winners. That's eight bets in total to make that I think will help you get rich this weekend. I'm very confident in my picks going into this weekend. I want to start with the heavyweight fight between Deonté Wilder and Robert Heleneas. Wilder returning after a year layoff, Heleneas. He's got some momentum after back-to-back wins over Adam Kovnoski. Wilders is a big favorite.

Understandably so. Minus 8.50, according to Fan Duel. I like that bet, though, a lot. You can park your money on Deontay Wilder. He is going to win that fight. He's also going to win by knockout. Minus 350, not the best of odds, but Wilder doesn't go to decisions. He doesn't.

He wins by knockout. So if you bet big on Deonté Wilder by knockout, you have a chance to win some money. Over in Australia, Devin Haney against George Camposos. Devin Haney minus 1,100 right now. Again, not great odds. But Devin Haney, I think, showed in that first fight that he is on a different level than George Camposa. And I just don't think that Cambosis has the skills to be able to make the kind of adjustments

you need to make to be more competitive against Devin Hay. So take Devin Haney to win at minus 1,100. I think he wins by decision as well. Minus 250 there for Devin Haney by decision. George might attempt to make this something of a brawl, in which case we could see a knockdown, maybe two knockdowns, but Devin Haney's strength is as a boxer. And I think he wins this fight by decision over in Australia,

making it too straight against George Camposos. Over in the UK, Michaela Mayer, Alicia Baumgartner, the co-made event of the big ESPN women's show this weekend. McKelah Mayer, minus 350 favorite. I like her a lot to win this fight. Baumgartner, she's got power. No question about it.

Go back and watch that one-punch knockout against Terry Harper. that will show you the kind of power that Alicia Baumgartner has. But I think Michaela Mayer is a more skilled fighter. She's a former Olympian. She's got more depth to her resume. She's faced more top fighters in and around her weight class. I think Michaela Mayer is going to win this fight. Now, how she wins,

Michaela Mayer is another one that doesn't knock a lot of people out. So I think she wins by decision as well. It's minus 2.30. So around the same odds for Michaela Mayer to win and to win by decision. but I think that's how this fight ultimately plays out. Great fight. A lot of bad blood between these two women. I think it could be fun as long as it lasts,

but I think Michaela Mayer, a little bit better than Alicia Bumgarner going into this fight. The main event over in the UK, Claresa Shields against Savannah Marshall. The rivalry finally finishes in the ring between two women that have been circling each other since the amateur days. Clarissa Shields just a minus 136 favorite to win.

At one point, she was an underdog. I didn't really understand that. Savannah Marshall's a big puncher, excellent fighter. But Clarissa's just next level good. And Clarissa's talking a big game about going and hurting her and knocking her out. We'll get to that. But I think Clarissa Shields wins this fight. And I think she has the skill set to win a convincingly.

160 is a good size for Clarissa Shields. Savannah Marshall's always dangerous to that right hand. She's going to be in great shape. She's got a great corner in Peter Fury. But I think Clarissa Shields wins that fight. How she wins, she ain't going to win by knockout. So your best chance of winning some big money here is the bet on Shields by points or decision. Plus 110 to win by decision.

That's a bet I'd make big. If I'm going to make one bet and I'm going to go big, on any of them. I would go big of Clarissa Shields by decision. She is an active puncher, a volume puncher, but no how much she tries to be, she's not a big puncher. And I think she's going to have a tough time hurting Savannah Marshall. I do think this fight winds up being an 8273 type of decision. I think Clarissa Shields is just on a different level skill-wise than Savannah Marshall. But this is your chance to make some money. Larissa Shields plus 110 by decision. Bet on that.

Bet on all four fights. And we will reconvene on Monday and see how it came out because I'm doing it. And I intend to get back to my winning ways. It's been a tough couple of weeks with bets. Thank you, Sebastian Fondor, for not being able to finish off Carl Sarko last week. But I think this is the week I get on track. And like I do it with four big wins. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandor.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to and learn the hard. way with your favorite therapist and host

Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.