The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - What's next for GGG

Episode Date: February 12, 2022

Chris is joined this week by longtime boxing writer and friend of the podcast, Keith Idec. The guys dive into the last with GGG and who he should be considering for his next fight, Daniel Jacobs getting back in the ring this week, and much more. Laster in the podcast, Daniel Jacobs stops by to tell his side of why he hasn't had a fight in a long time and what we can expect from him this weekend. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is boxing with Chris Manning. Or somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moments. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing.

When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, Keith Ideck is here. Senior writer, Boxing Scene.com coming to you live from New Jersey, I assume, his green New York Jets t-shirt. I don't know where he's wearing. It's just a Nike sweatshirt. No Jets.

I just assume Jersey Jets. I am a Jets fan, but. Basking and a tire today. That's the way it is. Zach Wilson error underway. Ready to go. Back Wilson era, yes. Well, at least shoot out the Giants right now.

I guess that you could be worse. Absolutely. All right, Keith, let's jump in to some of the news this week. I want to start with Canelo Alvarez, who may be at least trending towards a decision for his next fight. Our friend Mike Coppinger over at ESPN. first reported that Canelo was closing in on a two-fight deal with matchroom boxing that would see him face Dimitri Beevil for Beowl's 175-pound title.

That fight would be in May. And then in September, the big one, a third fight against Ganadi Golofkin, completing one of the better rivalries of this recent era. Eddie Rinozzo, the trainer for Canelo Alvarez, the manager for Canelo Alvarez. he came out on social media on Thursday and said, look, we've got offers. We're sifting through them. Nothing is done yet. But, you know, and I kind of hear a lot of the same things, Keith.

I know you report a little bit on an unboxing scene about, you know, Connell is strongly leaning towards this deal. It seems like, at least as we record this, this is the direction he's going. What do you think of it? And are you surprised that this is the path he seems to be choosing? Not necessarily just because of the money. Chris, I was in Las Vegas over the weekend for the Keith Thurman Mario Barrios extravaganza at Mandalay Bay.

And I started hearing that morning that DeZone had up its offer from two fights and a two-fight $80 million guarantee toward a deal that could ultimately be worth $100 million for two fights, which obviously has some contingencies to it. But that's an enormous amount of money, obviously. I guess from the other side of it, from the Showtime PBC side of it, they can offer a lot of money as well. And for the Jamal Charlo fight, his guarantee would be roughly $45 million more than he would have made or more than he did make for the Caleb Plant fight. So they're offering him a lot of money for the one fight. I guess ultimately what it depends upon for Canelo Alvarez is does he want to fight Triple G a third time?

And of course, the way they've moved forward here in their careers, you would have to heavily. favor Canelo Alvarez in a third fight against Triple G. This seems to be something that his own executives are hell-bent on making happen because it has been the fight that they've been pursuing since they launched the streaming service three and a half years ago, as you well know, Chris. They still want the fight. It's still a marketable fight. It's not as big as it was when they signed both fighters in the fall of 2018 and then in the spring of 2019. It's lost some of its luster just because they've headed in different directions. Gatty Golovkin will be 40 years old in April, he barely has fought in the last two years.

So it's lost some of its luster. It's still a big fight. It's still a marketable fight. I guess what it depends upon for Canelo-Alvarez, because the money isn't going to be that different for fighting Dmitri Bivall for a light-heavyweight title, and he's already been a light-heavyweight champion. And get out of Delavkin. or does he want to fight Jamal Charlo and probably David Benavides,

does he want that more? Does he view that as more important for his legacy? Because we both know that he really has a strong dislike for Golovkin. He does not want Golovkin to benefit financially from his superstardom. So that might ultimately be a factor in this as well, because as you mentioned before, that Mike Coffinger, our good old pal over there at ESPN, wrote yesterday that he was nearing a deal and he's seriously considering it but he's also considering the pbc showtime deal and um again it's just ultimately going to depend on on which fights he sees as

more important to his legacy i don't the bivol fight is a challenging fight it just doesn't have the to me anyway that i think the charlo fight is more marketable i'm not saying that it's an easier fight or a harder fight or whatever obviously charlowe has to go up from 160 to 168 but i just think the fight is more marketable in the sense that Dimitri Bibball is for all intents and purposes has disappeared over the last couple of years frankly he's fighting at 11 o'clock in the morning on the on the east coast from Russia and people aren't seeing his fights and he you know he struggled somewhat in this fight against Craig Richards and fighters often have a tendency to fight up and down to the levels of competition I'm not saying he's not a better fighter than Craig Richards he is

but if Canelo Alvarez had struggled with a fighter at the level of Craig Richards what would they be saying about Canelo Alvarez? They certainly wouldn't be saying that he could beat the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And yesterday, a lot of people were trying to tell me that Dimitri Bivol is the toughest of those four fights that have been proposed by both showtime and Desone. I don't see that. I see Canello beating Dimitri Bivol. I wouldn't say easily, but certainly convincingly. Yeah, I think I'm a little surprised that Canello has not elected to split the baby. To your point, I believe DeZone,

DeZone executives are hell-bent on making the Golofkin fight happen. And if Golofkin faces Ryota Marada at some point over the next couple of months and looks great in that fight, which you and I both know he's fully capable of, Marada is not very good and is very capable of being knocked out. It has been even more inactive than Golofkin,

if you can believe that, over the last few years. Yeah. If he looked great against Marada, suddenly had two pieces of the 160-pound championship. It wouldn't have regained all the momentum. It lost, but it would have regained some of it and made that fight marketable in September. I do think Canelo is over the, I don't want Golofkin to get a paycheck part of it. Now, I based that on, before the pandemic hit, there were plans to have Canello go against Billy Joe Saunders in May and face Gannadi Golovkin in September.

That was very much in talks, and there was a strong belief on the DeZone side that he was willing, he being Canelo, was willing to do it. So I don't think the, there's definitely still a lot of personal animosity there. I don't think it's blocking anything from happening. It hasn't been the case in some time now.

The people, though, like people, he must, and I don't have any real inside information on this, but I'm guessing Eddie Hearn probably sold him, on saying, look, you go up to 175, you beat Dimitri Beaville, all of a sudden you got one piece of the title, you let Joe Smith and Archer Betterby have figure out the other three pieces, and then when you're ready, you go up to 175, and in one more fight, you can fight for the undisputed light heavyweight championship.

And as you said, Canello is concerned about legacy, does think about these legacy-defining fights, to become the undisputed light-heavyweight champion after just two fights, one of which he should be a big favorite going into. That's a pretty good pathway, especially if the money is fairly equal. That makes perfect sense, Chris, because like you said, he could then become an undisputed champion, potentially in another division. Obviously, that from DeZone's perspective,

they would have the inside track toward getting that fight, because one thing that I know unequivocally that is true is that top rank under no circumstances is going to pay for Canelo, to fight Artur, Betterbieve, for the kind of money that Canelo Alvarez, they've literally told me that, so that that will not happen on ESPN or ESPN plus. So, the zone would then have a chance to have Canello fight Bivall, Golovkin, and Betterbiev, and, you know, three successive fights, which is a pretty nice run there for Canello. So that makes perfect sense in terms of that being the blueprint that Eddie laid out for him. But on the flip side, I would say, on one, one hand, Canello could look at the the Golovkin fight as a fight that is very winnable for him now and a fight that he should and probably will win convincingly because Golovkin is, it will be 40 years old and has been very inactive by the time, obviously I've fought Marada, but he has not

been active. And the worst thing for an older fighter is inactivity. So he's got a very bad combination of numbers working against him heading into a third Canello fight. And then from Canelo's perspective, do you want to be looked at like you were now? it would be kind of silly to call Gennady Galevkin a cherry pick. It's not a cherry pick. But would you want to be criticized for taking what would be perceived, at least, as an easier fight than David Benavides. Now, David Benavides certainly has not accomplished anything close to what Gennady Gullovkin

has accomplished in his career. I'm not necessarily saying that it's going to be a much harder fight, but he's a much younger fighter. He's bigger. He's been a super middleweight champion. in some ways, Canello picked up one of the titles because of David Benavides's stupidity, immaturity, however you want to frame it, he's lost the same title twice without losing a fight. So some people might perceive, even though Canello is the undisputed 168-pound champion, people might perceive David Benavides to be more of the real WBC champion than Canelo Alvarez. So I could see people criticizing him for not fighting the younger, bigger, hungrier fighter

if he were to take that route of fighting Bivol and fighting Golovkin. Yeah, look, I get that. But perceived by who is how I would respond. Perceived by the people deep in the weeds in boxing, people like us that know that Gannadi Golovkin is not the fighter, was in 2017 and 2018 when he had those great fights against Canello. I can promise you, Keith, the average fan has no idea that Golofkin's been inactive the last two years and that he's fallen off a little bit.

If they see him knock out Ryota Marada, the average casual fan is going to be like, oh, third fight between Canelo and Triple G, completing a rivalry. They're not going to know. It's like, in a way, it's comparable to like Mayweather versus McGregor. You and I and people that know combat sports, no, it's ridiculous. It's absurd to think that Connor McGregor could win a fight like that. But the name recognition, the star power, that's what drives interest. That's what drives paper views.

So, yeah, I guess like, you know, there'll be sections of Twitter that will go after Canelo Alvarez for refusing to fight David Benavides. he can wave at them on his way to the bank to cash the massive check that's going to come with fighting Gennady Golochkin. The two fights he did against Gailovkin in 17 and 18 did well over a million pay-per-view buys. It's a new landscape, of course, and it would undoubtedly be a disowned pay-per-view, which is a new thing in and of itself. But there's no reason to believe that if Goloch is successful and Kinella was successful the next few months, that it won't at least approach that number.

So, like, I don't, I just, you know, I understand he'll get tweaked by the, you know, the angry, angry boxing fan that demand David Benavides, but that number is grossly outnumbered by the casual fans that would be all on board with that fight. While that's true, Chris, I would say, is it more important, forget about me, forget about you, the people on Twitter, anybody else. What does it mean to Canelo Alvarez? because he's already got more money than him and his children could ever spend. So at this point, what's really the difference?

And he would make an enormous amount of money for fighting Benavides and Charlo. So is it important to him, and I'm not saying his legacy isn't important to him based on how he's gone about his business so far, but he's also been a smart matchmaker, let's be honest. He has. Not in the case of fighting Arislandi Lara. That was a bad idea. But for the most part, he's been a smart matchmaker.

So if he's going to show the type of ambition that he did when he was younger, the path to take would be Charlo and David Benavides. If he's going to take a little, and I don't mean it's a safe route, because Dimitri Bibowal can fight, and Gennady Golovkin is still a big puncher and has a lot to prove and wants to avenge his only defeat. So that's not an easy fight either. But I think if he really wanted to show ambition over,

cashing the most amount of money, cashing in on the most amount of money, he would go to Charlo Benevita's route. But like you said, commercially, probably the Triple G fight is the biggest of the four. Yeah, but do you really think that Charlo is a more dangerous fight than Beaville?

Dangerous maybe, yeah, because I haven't seen no evidence that Dimitri Bivol is a puncher. I haven't seen it. Oh, not in years. He's a boxer. He's a boxer, and he would be going up against the guy who has had maybe the most reliable chin of this era.

So it's going to be a matter of whether he can outbox Canello Alvarez. Maybe he can. But I honestly, whereas I was told repeatedly yesterday on Twitter, and who really cares what half of these people are saying, but the opinion of a lot of them really was that Dmitri Bivol is the toughest of those four fights. You might argue that it's the easiest of those four fights, to be honest with you. or the safest. I don't know.

Look, we can discuss Charlo in a minute, but like, I've seen no evidence in the last five years that he's this dangerous guy. No, I'm not saying he's a murderous punch or anything, but he can punch. He's obviously a bigger, they're all bigger than Canelo, especially as he moved up and weight, of course. But he's a much taller fighter than Cannell. And I think, you know, to some extent, Jamal Charlo is tired of hearing that he's afraid. to fight this guy, he's afraid to fight that guy, and this is his career defining moment. So I think he would be as up for this fight as you possibly could be. That probably won't be enough to beat Canello Alvarez, but I would expect that if

Jamal Charlo were to get this opportunity, he would bring it that night. Whatever he's got, he'd bring it, you know. Let me kick it to Golofkin there, not to say Galapkin's better than Benevita's at this point, but in terms of legacy, and maybe not ambition, but certainly in terms of legacy. Like, can you say right now, who was, of the 20 of the last 10 years, who was the better of the two? Based on those two fights, can we say definitively who was better? Like, I don't think so. To me, Golofkin won the first fight.

To most people believe that. The second fight, all credit to Canello, he won a close decision. I had it the other way, but I don't care. Like I had 114, 113 for Golofkin, if it's like that, that's the way it goes. there's been no finality to this rivalry. And you can say it's been overriped, it's overripened rather, because of the number of years that have passed

in the age of Golofkin, who would be 40 years old when that fight took place. But I think Kedal's legacy would be enhanced or burnished if he can definitively win a fight against his longtime rival. Yeah, I mean, Chris, I couldn't really put it better than you just put it. That's a very valid point. And he would get some satisfaction more than some. satisfaction of definitively beating Gennady Golovkin, maybe dragging Gennady Gullovkin into the later

rounds of the fight where an older fighter would have a difficult time, beating him up maybe, carrying him for a few rounds, torturing him to some degree. And I'm not saying that will happen, but he's 40 years old. And we still don't really know with any certainty how much did the Derebienchenko fight took out of him. Because the one fight that he has had, since then was a whitewash. I mean, that proved nothing. He was in the ring with a mandatory challenger who did not belong in the ring with him. He beat him up the way that he was supposed to beat him up.

So what happens when he's actually in the ring with a guy of Canelo Alvarez's caliber? Because Ryota Marada is not that. He has lost to Hassan Nandam and Rob Brandt. And because the WBA is an utterly ridiculous organization, Marada has one of their multiple titles. So yippie. You can call it a unification fight. Knock yourself out.

Who cares? But the bottom line is I can't emphasize enough. This person has lost to Hassan and Dam and Rob Grant, who's a very nice person. And he came back to win. He came back to avenge both of those losses, especially against Rob Grant in a very convincing way. So maybe he's just the kind of guy who doesn't get up for certain opponents. he's going to get, he's going to get destroyed by Gennady Golovkin, point blank. Yeah.

I couldn't agree more. All right. I want to say one thing about Jamal Charlo if he doesn't get this fight. It's your fault. It just is. Like, you know, if Jamal Charle... How so? Because over the last few years, if Jamal Charlo had fought real fights,

if he had fought Demetrius Andrade and won, maybe at that point would have gotten the attention of Golofkin with two titles around your waist. Just fought had been more active, had been seeking out better competition, facing the best. I think that would have created more of a mandate for Connell to look at him and say, that's a bigger fight. Even if it's not for a light heavyweight title, that's a bigger fight. But he has gone, Keith, five years where his best win is against a well-past-his prime Sergei Derevincenko. So I look at it as saying like it's...

I don't know if he was a well-past as prime Sergei Derevianchenko. it's the same Sergei Derevianchenko that you thought, and I thought, beat Gannady Golovkin. Well, that was before, though. I mean, we just talked about what did Derevanchenko take out of Galovkin? But it was only... Right, but now we're saying that Gullovkin is still the best fight for Canelo, so we can't have it both ways. Well, no, no, it's not... No, I'm not convinced, no.

Look, if you want to rank the best and most difficult fights for Canello, I'd probably put Benavides at the top of the list. I think he's really skilled, got some pop, natural 168. I think B-Bow is a tougher fight than Charlo. It's not a huge gap. I just think Golofkin's more relevant, and Charlo missed his opportunity to become more relevant over the last few years. I understand what you're saying about his level of opposition, but I would say this in terms of making it mandated.

It was mandated, and Canelo somehow, they somehow made up some ridiculous franchise championship. When it was time for Canelo Alvarez to make a mandatory defense against Jamal Charlo, and Jamal Charlo was supposed to get the opportunity to prove his worth against Canelo Alvarez. What happened? They made up some absurd designation that was not supposed to be transferred. And look where we are, you know, two years, two and a half years later with what wasn't supposed to be transferable and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, I'm not saying that Canelo Alvarez is afraid to fight Jamal Charlo or he's afraid to fight anyone.

But that fight could have and probably should have happened by now. and now he's being offered a $45 million guarantee for it to happen, and it's still not happening. So I don't know how, while you're right, I think about the level of Jamal Charlo's opposition, not being great. I don't know that this falls on him at this moment when there's a $45 million guarantee hanging in the balance and he's going to fight Demetri Bibowl. And at the very least, is a less sexy fight, I guess we would. much less marketable than what Jamal Charlo would be. There's no question about that. I just think if there was like a way to push Jamal Charlo ahead a little bit,

maybe give Canela more reason, fighting bigger fights over the last couple of years, as opposed to fighting once a year and most recently against a no hoper, again Juan Macias Montiel, and then sitting out the rest of the year. Meanwhile, not to say Connell was going to fight Demetrius Andrew, but Andrew, banging his drum every 15 minutes and try to get Charlo in the ring with him.

I think that hurt him. I do think that hurt him in these negotiations. And he struggled against Montiel, who turned out to be a tougher opponent than anyone thought. Yeah. And Montiel, who I didn't think I had any chance after watching Mungia panic him a little while back. But that's a story.

Let me ask you, though, about Charlie. Like, if it doesn't go his way, where does he go? Like, he's been hanging his hat on getting this fight. Now, you and I both know there are great options at BBC for Jail. Jamal Charlo. Caleb Plant is a big fight. David Benavides is a big fight. Not so much in middleweight right now, but it sounds like he's ready to make the jump up to 168 pounds. Like, where does he go?

I mean, are those fights affordable for PBC at this point? Because that often is the issue with making these fights happen between two A-list guys. I would say that based on what Jamal Charlo said over the past year or so, he's not terribly interested in fighting David Benavidiz because he gave some rather silly explanations as to why they shouldn't fight, to be honest. But one fight, I think, maybe to keep an eye on is, well, first it would be Saturday, because it depends how Daniel Jacobs looks against John Ryder. If he looks like some semblance of the Daniel Jacobs that we've known over the last five years, as opposed to who we saw probably lose to Gabe Rosado,

Daniel Jacobs against Jamal Charlo is still a marketable fight. maybe too expensive to your point, Chris, as it relates to the PBC Showtime or even Fox side of it. But that might be the one because I think that would be a fight that Jamal Charlo might want more than the Benevieve. And I'm not saying he's scared to fight Benavides. I'm just saying from a business perspective, what might make more sense is fighting the older fighter who has more of an established resume, fan base, et cetera, and who potentially at least could be coming off. a good performance against John Ryder. Now, we won't know that until Saturday. But if he looks good against John Ryder,

suddenly Daniel Jacobs against Jamal Charlo might come into play again if Canelo Alvarez does what we think he's leaning toward doing fighting Bivol and Golovkin. That's a tremendous fight, especially if Jacobs looks good against Ryder. And I talk to Jacobs. He's coming up later on this podcast.

He's saying all the right things. Being back with Andre Ruggier is great. training camp was great. Mentally, he's sharp. Riders are a very tricky opponent, so we'll see. He's looked good against top-level competition. But that would be an excellent fight. But I do worry about the economics, Keith, because, you know, when we talk about these guys, like, you know, Jacobs would want, I don't know, several million dollars at least.

You know, Charles would want several million dollars. The same thing with Benavides and with plan. It's why oftentimes we see these guys when they're not taking on the Canellos of the world. you know, fight, you know, second tier type of opponents. It's not because they don't want those fights, because the economics don't allow for it at this point. So I hope so because, you know, if, like the last thing I want to see, Keith, honestly, is like an announcement of Jamal Charlo, Anthony Durrell.

Like, I don't, I don't need that in my life right now. No disrespect, Anthony Durrell. Great guy coming off a big win himself in his last fight. But that feels like the obvious answer for Jamal Charle. And I don't know if I want to see it. Well, you may have just spoken it into existence, so it's your fault if it happens. That's entirely.

All right. Moving back to a fight that you saw this past weekend, I believe you called it the extravaganza with Keith Thurman out in Las Vegas. He goes the distance, beats Mario Barrios convincingly. How did you think he looked? And what do you think the future is for Keith Thurman? I think he kind of looked like Keith Thurman looked in every other fight in recent years, except for the Pachial fight because he was knocked down on the first round,

was playing catch up, made the fight competitive, got hurt with a body shot. But it kind of looked like a lot of Keith Thurman fights. He went after his opponent, started off strong, tried to some degree to get him out of there, did not do that, turned it into somewhat of a track meet for several rounds, got caught with a body shot in the later rounds that affected him, and went on to win the fight. So it resembled a lot of Keith Thurman fights in recent years. You know, Mario Barrios was not a huge underdog going into that fight because Keith

Thurman had not fought in so long. He hadn't fought in two and a half years. Look, Ring Russ certainly had something to do with what happened the other night. I think he won convincingly. I thought Steve Weissfeld's scorecard of 117, 111 was probably the fairest of the three. I thought, you know, it was a nine rounds to three type of fight, but not in it. resembling an embarrassing performance for Mario Barrios who moved up to Walter Waite for the first time and is a very, very tough guy. He's always going to be in good action fights and everything because he's

tough. He's just not nearly as good as the guys at the top level, which we've now seen probably in three of his past four fights. But it was a reasonably entertaining fight. Of course, had no business being the headliner of a $75 pay-per-view show or a $7.50 pay-per-view show. It just didn't belong on pay-per-view. The buy rate reflected that. Keith Thurman's guarantee for Saturday night, it was $3 million. So look, I hope that moving forward as it relates to the PBC Fox Partnership, that we are not going to see pay-per-views that don't belong on pay-per-view every six weeks, because it's just not a sustainable business model, and it's going to turn off what is, what seems like an ever dwindling fan base,

don't continue to try to squeeze every nickel out of people who, frankly, have been loyal to this sport and have stuck with it through thick and thin. Now, a lot of people steal the pay-per-views, which is really an insult to the fighters who are risking their lives because you're taking money off their family's table, frankly, by doing that.

But they would justify it by saying, well, look, if you're going to come at us for 75 bucks or 70 bucks or whatever it might be every five or six weeks. Well, that's not, I'm not going to build that into my family's budget. So kind of is what it is. So that's how they fight back. Or you could fight back by not watching it, I guess. But just in general, I just hope that this is not the path that we take,

as opposed to getting fights on free television. And I wrote this column for boxing scene on last Friday. It's just, now I understand. You're a little salty in that column, Keith. A little salty in that column. Well, I'm a little salty in general in my old age, I suppose. But look, somebody, we got to say it. I mean, this is crazy.

And, you know, when we can, let's get into the zone now doing pay-per-view fights. I mean, because that's a problem, too, that needs to be addressed by them. But as it relates to PBC and Fox, I understand why the fight was on pay-per-view, because, look, Keith Thurman expects a certain level of compensation. and Fox slashed its, PBC's budget for the fourth year when they picked up the fourth year option. So that type of fight is not something you can put on Fox. That's where it belonged. But you don't economically, it didn't work because you don't have the level of license fee that you needed to put that fight on Fox.

So I get that. But you're going to have to figure it out some way, whether that's the fighters taking somewhat of a haircut. Because if we learned any, if Keith Thurman was taught any sort of lesson on Saturday night, is that he's not an A-side pay-per-view fighter against anybody you throw in the ring with him. It's just not. Like, he can be on pay-per-view if he finds up fighting Errol Spence Jr. Or if your Dennis Ugas pulls off an upset on April 16th, then he can be on pay-per-view. If he wants to, as he said to me after the fight, when I asked him in the post-fight press conference,

he said he's interested in fighting Terrence Crawford. Interested in fighting Terrence Crawford and being willing to fight Terrence Crawford are two different things, obviously. But that fight would be on pay-per-view, too. but you can't throw him in there with just any old buddy, you know, every six months just because Keith Thurman wants to be paid X. Yeah, you mentioned to zone pay-per-view. I just don't know enough about it yet and what they're going to do. Like, you know, they're going to be substantial discounts for subscribers. Yeah, are they going to, there should be.

Of course, they should make it more palatable for subscribers to do it. That, you know, I'll reserve judgment until I see what, what it actually looks at. looks like for the people that are having to buy it. Because, yeah, you shouldn't have people paying $100 in subscription and $80, whatever, dollars for a Canello pay-per-view. There's got to be middle ground there on something. Chris, I think what they need to do from a public relations standpoint, honestly, is to show some honesty to be as clear about it as possible, right?

Because, look, I understand they were ambitious when they broke into the market in 2018. They had a, they were bold about it. and they said with death to pay-per-view and we're going to change everything. They found out the hard way that this business has existed the way that it has for decades. And no one, no matter how smart or how much money they think they have, is going to come in and change it just because they say so. So what I think they should do as maybe Mia Kulpa type of thing, and maybe as a gesture of goodwill to the people who have stuck with the zone for the past three and a half years,

is say, hey, look, yes, we are going to give you some sort of discount. If you've been a subscriber, you won't have to pay whatever the full, whether that full price is $75 or $80 or whatever it might be for the type of fight where they're paying those types of purses, say, hey, we'll give you an extra five months or six months, whatever, whatever they come up with. But also, the frontmen for DeZone have to, I think, address publicly the fact that they said, we never will do pay-per-view shows. and then once they realize the economic reality that they were faced with, they have to do it.

There's no, I tweeted this yesterday or the day before, whatever it was, to some guy on Twitter. I said, it's the only way. And the guy took offense to it saying it's not the only. I said, you're missing my point. When fighters' financial expectations are what Canelo Alvarez's expectations are, and he's earned every bit of that, you can't pay him any other way than to have the fight available at a higher price point than $10. per month or $20 per month or whatever it is. You can't make it work financially without doing it on pay-per-view.

That's again what they, you know, maybe Joe is a very smart guy. Joe Marcos, he's a very smart guy. He gets the economics of it and everything. Eddie's a smart guy as well, you know, charismatic and all that kind of stuff. But I do think maybe here it's time to just come maybe a little bit, I don't want to say hat and hand. I'm not trying to be melodramatic about it, but just say we made a mistake. We underestimated how difficult this task was going to be.

And maybe we said some things that we should not have said. And we now realize through trial and error that this is the way we're going to have to go about it. Not every fight's not going to be on pay-per-view. You're still going to get some good fights, you know, against lower, not against, including lower-profile fighters. Like Saturday night's a good example. People enjoyed the Bam Rodriguez-Carlos-Quadras fight. Based on the traffic on our website and the response on our website,

I would say they enjoyed it more than the Keith Thurman Mario Barrios fight, despite that those are higher profile guys. So if you can give people that type of value for their money in between doing maybe two or three of those types of pay-per-views per year, it'll be palatable even for the people who are furious that they signed up for your subscription plan thinking that you were going to deliver those types of fights for that low amount of money and then you realized you could not. Yeah, I think the key to your point is satisfying subscribers and maybe more importantly, using pay-per-view judiciously. Like that's the big. Paper view is not a problem in boxing when it's used correctly. Nobody complained about Fury Wilder. Nobody complained about Plant Canello. Like when it's a high-calibre fight, people do not mind paying for. Whatever Canelo fights really, it's pay-per-view quality. It's everything else. It's when you get into the weeds a little bit.

And if it's borderline and you pick pay-per-view, that's the problem on any platform that's out there right now. Yeah, no, I agree, Chris. And the other thing is don't, you know, don't put, I understand sometimes it's out of necessity, but don't continue going to that well of putting fights on pay-per-view that don't belong there because I think sometimes people with it, and I think this is the people,

some of the people at the zone anyway are guilty of this because they're not really boxing people. they kind of think that, and it's not only the zone, it's another platform as well, but we've already sold the loyalists on whatever we're doing, because those same hundreds of thousands of people are going to buy whatever we throw at them. That's not necessarily true because the boxing fan base was obviously much bigger once upon a time that it is now. So that's evidence that if you keep pissing people off and keep treating them or mistreating them along the way,

you're going to lose some of them. So don't take them for granted and think that they're just always going to stick around because there are various entertainment options for people. And while I think to some extent, there will always be enough people that watch, that like watching people beat the crap out of each other is really the best way to put it.

There will be enough of those people. But if it gets down to the level where it way lower than it is now, the sport cannot survive. So don't take those people for granted, I guess is what I'm saying. And again, just come to them and say, hey, look, this is the way we're going to do it for these two Canelo fights. He is Canelo Alvarez, after all. We're sorry about not delivering on our promise. Don't just gloss over it because that will infuriate people.

Yeah. To put a pin in Keith Thurman, I put it this way. Do you believe he fights again in 2022? I do. He actually said the other night that he, because he's been, so inactive. He didn't fight for two and a half years from the Pachial fight until the Barrios fight. And he did have hand surgery and then the pandemic. So that's part of why I didn't fight, a large part of why didn't fight for two and a half years. But he did say, look, what I think is

going to happen, Chris, I think it's set up perfectly for this. Errol Spence Jr. and your Dennis Ugass are obviously fighting on April 16th on Showtime pay-per-view. I think Keith Thurman will fight the winner of that fight. Now, whether he fights again, in between there, I'm not entirely sure. But from Errol Spence's perspective, and, you or Dennis Ugas is obviously a better fighter than any of us realized over the last few years. And he's not going to be an easy fight or an easy out for Earl Spence. But Errol Spence is favored to win the fight. If he does win the fight and he's not quite ready to fight Crawford,

he could go fight Keith Thurman. And that's a sellable pay-per-view fight in the sense that they've been rivals for a long time. People have wanted to see the fight. Now, I think Keith Thurman is a diminished fighter. And Errol Spence would beat him rather convincingly if they did fight. but at least it's a it's a pay-per-view fight that they can market because they've had this rivalry for several years. And then the winner, which presumably would be Errol Spence, might then go and fight Terrence Crawford, assuming Crawford doesn't get picked off by someone along the way.

Yeah, I was going to say, Keith, if you're predicting Keith Thurman versus Spence if he beats Ugas, that means we do not get Crawford versus Spence in 2022, which, to your point about pissing people off? That would piss some people off. I think they'll get to you. Because top rank's no longer the obstacle here. They're not. But the obstacle is that top rank paid Terrence, despite what Terrence Crawford seems to think in this lawsuit, top rank compensated him very well, overpaid him for the types, mostly for the types of fights that he took.

Certainly not Sean Porter. That was a real, real fight, of course. And Cavalascus was a tougher fight than people realize also. But he was overpaid probably based on what his market value was for the types of opponents that he'd beat. he's starting to realize that now as he's out on the open market and trying to get those types of paydays against who exactly? Because if you don't sign with PBC, the three fighters that he mentions first and foremost that he wants to fight when you ask him, I've heard him say it, is Keith Thurman, Errol Spence or you're Dennis Ugas. Now, those two guys are fighting each other, so that's going to eliminate one of them. So let's just say it's Keith Thurman and Errol Spence.

Well, you have to affiliate yourself in some way with PBC to make those fights happen. And the Josh Taylor fight is a possibility as well. You know, if Josh Taylor beats Jack Caterall, there's not much left for Josh Taylor to accomplish in the 140 pound division. Caterall is a mandatory challenger. He could move up to 147 and there would be great interest in Josh Taylor fighting Terrence Crawford, particularly in the UK. Crawford has gone to the UK before and I think he would do it again.

So that is an option for him. But beyond that, there's not really much out there for him if he doesn't affiliate himself with the PBC. And to answer your question, Chris, what you mentioned earlier, I don't think we're going to see Spence Crawford in 2022. Hopefully we'll see it in 2023. But, you know, Terrence Crawford's going to be 35 years old in September. And Errol Spence is going to be 32 in March.

So, you know, they're getting toward the back ends of it. Well, Crawford's already in the back end of his prime. And Spence not only is getting toward the back end of his prime, but he's had a lot of obvious problems outside of the ring in the last two years or three years, now in the car accident and the retina surgery and everything. So I don't know what to expect from him on April 16th either. Yeah, no question. That's going to be a very interesting fight that we'll talk more about as we get closer. Last thing for you, and this is kind of a very inside baseball type of topic, but it always interests me, given that PBC's got a dual relationship with Fox and with Showtime.

You've had Showtime over the last few months pick up the marquee fights. They got Canelo versus Plant. They got Gervante Davis's last fight, even though that wasn't a roaring success. and now they are going to distribute Spence against Ugas. It's just like it keeps tilting keep. The windmill keeps tilting in different directions for a while. Fox was getting the lion's share of the top-level paper views. Now it seems Showtime is absorbing more of them. What do you make of that and how that impacts the dynamic between PBC

and its two broadcast partners? What I think it indicates is that if I had to guess, my educated guess would be that Fox and PBC don't do business any further beyond this fourth year of the four four year deal that they signed in 2018. I know that Al Heyman was not happy with the terms of the fourth year because there were some contractual clauses that were some, you know, some numbers that they had to meet to get a certain amount of money out of Fox for the fourth year. And they did not meet those numbers in 2021. So for 2022, the license fees are lower.

There are less fights on Fox. There will be fights on Fox, particularly once college basketball season is over. They will do some fights on Fox after their baseball games and such. But there are going to be less fights on Fox overall, less fights on FS1 overall, and they're working with less money as license fees. So that's why you're seeing the lower quality of fights on Fox than we once saw. You know, we once saw Jermel Charlo against Tony Harrison, which was a big upset. Then we saw their rematch on Fox.

We saw Jared Hurd and Julian Williams, which also was a big upset. So we've seen some really good fights on Fox during the course of this deal. We're now seeing, and I wrote this again last Friday, we're kind of seeing like showbox level fights on Fox. Not necessarily the ones that lead into the pay-per-views, but certainly the ones that stand alone. You know, Vito Melnicki headlined a Fox show on Christmas night. You know, you're seeing, and there's nothing wrong with those kinds of fights, but do they belong on national television? When you're exposing boxing to the largest possible audience,

you want to have something close to your best product to expose to the biggest audience, and that's not what we're seeing. I think there's some frustration on the PBC side of it, that they're not allowed to televise some of their better fights on Fox. what I tried to tell people when everyone was all giddy about the Fox thing in the beginning, I said, hey, look, I understand that I am a ViacomCBS CBS employee and I'm looking at it from that lens to some degree. But objectively, Viacom CBS has an enormous amount of money, just like Fox has an enormous amount of money. They have various platforms.

It's not just Showtime. Showtime is inboxing for the long haul, despite people that were, you know, I don't know, almost openly rooting it for Showtime to go out. of boxing, I'm not really, look, the more platforms we have in boxing, the more money that's available to boxers and to promoters, whether it's DeZone, ESPN, Showtime, Fox, the more the merrier because one outfit can't service them all or two. There's not, there's too much inventory and not enough money to have it like a two shop operation. So you should want more platforms involved. But despite that, I knew that Showtime wasn't going anywhere because Viacomom's, because Viacom's CBS is invested in the sport and they were going to remain invested in the sport.

And I think moving forward, we're going to see the company invest more in the sport, be it through Paramount Plus, which they're looking for live sports options on Paramount Plus, just like they're looking for in every streaming service. Peacock, you know, all these streaming services are looking for live sports content and boxing lives as a live sports content partner is cheap in comparison to everything else. It's certainly to the NFL, Major League Baseball, and even the lower tier sports in the United States, the NHL, MLS. It's cheap in comparison to those products. So I think that's a possibility next year.

Showtime will remain heavily invested in the sport. Maybe we see some fights on Paramount Plus. What has always made sense to me is to have two or three big boxing events on CBS throughout the year, because the fights that have drawn most eyeballs over the last five years, except for the Errol Spence fight that was right after the Men's Olympic Gold Medal game, which was sort of an anomaly. But the fights that have drawn the most eyeballs have been on CBS because, in part, it's the most watch network on television, on free television.

But those spots are valuable on CBS, and that's the way they look at it. So maybe there's only two or three of those types of. events. But if those two or three types of events draw between four and five million viewers, they'll continue doing it and see it as a valuable investment moving forward. Yeah, I mean, that's the unfortunate part of the last few years is that, I mean, the way it should be is every time it's a fight on CBS, Fox, a network television, it should be a big fight. You want to put your best foot forward in those type of situation. If you're a fighter, like, If you're a pay-per-view fighter, you should want to be fighting on a CBS or Fox, like once a year.

Like, say you fight a couple of times. Because that's only going to increase your exposure, which should mean dollars down the line when it comes to pay-per-view. More people get to watch you in a good fight-in-free TV. Some of that, that viewership is going to translate into people that want to buy you on pay-per-view. It just hasn't been the case thus really the last couple of years where you've had. You know, showbox level fights, a lot of mismatches. I'm still getting some PTSD if we're watching like Erislandi Lara fight a couple of times on Fox. So, you know, it's not what it could have been, not what it should have been.

Chris, in Fox's defense, when they got it right and they put the types of fights on Fox that people wanted to see, or even some, you know, B-level fights. They did well. They did really well. They did really well, yeah. Keith Thurman-Hose-Sito-Lopez by no stretch of the American. imagination was considered a big fight. It turned out to be a compelling fight because Keith Thurman got buzzed by a huge underdog. But that fight did like 2.8 million. I think it peaked at 2.8 million or something like that. And it was 2.4 is the average. That's a lot of people watching what's a niche

sport now, particularly in the viewership age that has changed to the degree that it has changed. I mean, if you get 2.8 million people watching anything on television now, it's considered a success, particularly as it relates to boxing. Yeah, I agree. I mean, anytime you can get that number of people watching, it's just going to organically translate some of these people into fans and people that want to watch these fighters more.

I mean, I remember, I mean, Keith Thurman had such a great stretch before. Was it two fights on CBS, or Fox, like it was Garcia, and before that was Porter? It was, yeah, those fights were both on CBS, Chris, and those were the two fights I was referring to in that. Yeah, $5 million-ish something? Yeah, so the Port. The Porter fight, the Porter fight, if I'm remembering correctly, averaged 3.1 million,

and it peaked that I want to say 3.9 million, but that was a great action fight. Keith, the Kerman Sean Porter is a very underrated fight, was one of the fights of the year in 2016. And then his next, when he fought against Danny Garcia, they peaked at over 5 million viewers, and both of those fights were on CBS. And that's what you need. I mean, like 5 million people watching a boxing match in 2022 or 2023. is unheard of. So if you can do that, even if it's just two or three times a year,

it's hugely important for the sport moving forward because... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds.

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I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You have to cultivate new fans in whichever way you can do it. And charging pay-per-view prices every six weeks, whether it's DeZone or Fox or Showtime or whatever, that is not going to be the way to do it. Yeah, if you're a fighter, the chance to fight on free TV is something you should be desperately trying to get more. I understand it's money talks and boxes deserve to collect every nickel they're out there risking their lives. They're getting punched in the head for a living, for a paycheck.

But if there's a wiggle room to get on free TV to sort of build that fan base, that is going to benefit you financially somewhere down the line. Keith, always good stuff, man. we'll catch up at the next fight you're not coming to any fights cut it out i what is next what are we got coming up next what am i what am i mean i mean the fight you're broadcasts you have no what's the we got to do my usual i'll be there i'll be there i'll be there i'll friday i'm like look i'm never happier than when i see the name tag chris manix next to me at the fight because i know i can just sprawl out and do whatever i want wow wow he ain't coming Disagree. Showtime knows I show up at some of their fights.

I'm going to cancel more often at a show. I'm going to have DeBlasio keep a running list. I'll get back to you. But, Keith, my intentions are pure. Our intentions are pure. They just are to go. I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that at all. Keith, good to catch up, man.

Stay here, Chris. Take care, man. When we come back, my conversation with Daniel Jacobs. Millions of Americans are getting back to work. Career Builder calls it the great rehire. And we want to help you get the best job. before everyone else. CareerBuilder gives you the competitive edge to get the job you want, at the salary

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You fight in November of 2020. No fights or no fights in 2021. What was the reason you were inactive for all of 21? Well, we were scheduled to have a world title fight with Joe Smith. But he was, had to fight his mandatory. So we had to pull out. So we had several fights that just got, got pushed off. we was right on schedule with having fights lined up.

But it just so happened that everything just kind of fell out last minute, which led us to having a long, you know, a long layoff. When you, when the Rosado fight ended, like was your immediate reaction, I got to get back out there to kind of wash that away. Did you need time after that fight? Like, what was your reaction to how that fight went? No, it was just assessing myself, really, just seeing what I can go back and do better. And I took from that that it was a mental thing mostly.

Being in a good space, a good mental space. And I attest that to, you know, having my old team back. And I wish I'm thankful for now because training camp has been tremendous. And I feel like I'm back to where mentally, where I used to be, if not stronger, because I know that when lacking the right type of mentality, what could happen. And so I'm just looking forward to Saturday night, because now I get a chance to, you know, prove all along who I truly am and what I get to display when I'm 100%.

Did you feel like going into that Rosado fight that something was off mentally? Because you were, I mean, there was a lot of trash talk between you two. It seemed like it was going to be a rowdy fight, but could you feel a little off going into it? Yeah, I remember, I guess a lot of things in my personal life was just kind of off. And, you know, I just remember getting there, even on, you know, the zone cameras, I remember saying, I just want to get in and get out. I just want to get this over with.

So mentally, I just wasn't present. And it was apparent. And you met, you just said, like, getting your old team back together. That includes your trainer, Andre Rozier was with you. Under all of them. Andreuzeer, Anthony Irons, Scudahonic, you know, the whole New York team that kind of molded me to be the fighter who people truly know. So now that that's back, I'm looking forward to showing everybody Saturday night.

So how did that, how did you guys get back together? What were those conversations like? Well, I mean, as family, you know, you handle things indoors, in privacy, as men, as family. I won't disclose those type of conversations because it's for us. But we're in a great space now and it's all love. So being back with that group, like what's the difference in you? What's changed now that you're back with that group? Just I guess my spirit, you know, the spirit of being happy every day and training

and look forward to going to the gym, look forward to performing, look forward to, because boxing is kind of related to my childhood since I've been boxing since I was a kid. So, you know, the same team that I had when I was a kid, it's kind of like that same energy, that same vibe, when you're in a totally different space from training somewhere you never trained before to doing certain things you've never done before. It just mentally kind of depresses you.

Secretly, it was doing it to me, and I guess it truly wasn't apparent until, well, it was apparent during sparring. It was apparent, you know, for a lot of the sessions that I had by myself, it was a parent. But, you know, now I'm just looking forward to really just, not showing to the world, but showing to myself, because that's really,

truly what it all boils down to, because I'm in there at risk in my life, and so I want to be able to prove to myself that, you know, I am when I say I am. You are a two-time world champion, an accomplished guy, but in a weird way, does this fight feel like you have to kind of prove yourself all over again? It's crazy how, in boxing, you can be in such an elite fighter

and so well respected. to one fight. People can say he's lost it. People can say, oh, you know, this is the do or die for him. I mean, come on, you got to put some respect in my name. I don't in there with the best. I don't beat some of the best. Controversial or not, I mean, I am one of the best fighters in the world, and that alone deserves some respect. But I get people's opinion. It's just so crazy to me how it could be wishy-washy one day. And then let's say I go on and knock John right they're out, they come Saturday night. Then everyone's going to be like, oh, you know, he was supposed to do that.

And then you got to have some people like I say, oh, now he's back. So it's just like sometimes boxers and critics can be so not understanding and is so rash and, you know, it's very harmful to some fighters. But to me, I take it with a grain of salt. I'm my biggest critic. The only opinion that matters to me as myself. I think one of the criticisms you've heard, and it goes back to that old like Marvin Hagler line, right? It's hard to run in silk pajamas or whatever, that paraphrasing there.

Like you've made, you've had a lot of success, you've made a lot of money. Do you feel like you have the same edge that you had coming up? A thousand percent because money doesn't define me. Money isn't something that is do-all be-all for me. I do boxing because I love it. I do boxing because it's fun to me. I do boxing because it's something that, you know, I don't feel like it's a job. And so when people say the paraphrase that you just mentioned, it's just, it's pointless to me

because people don't truly know me. For those who know me understand that none of those things truly matter to me. It's important. It's important for me to take care of my family and, you know, to do things that I've always wanted to do. But money is not my God. Let's make that clear. Fighting above 160 pounds once again when you were. were you a middleweight champion. How much more comfortable are you at this weight?

Man, 100%. You look better. You look, but you're not like in that old 160 pound, Danny, that was struggling to get down. Exactly. Shivering and shaking because I had to do the bath trick where I lost 15 pounds in a couple hours, you know. So the stress of that just really takes your fighter and plundles them, whether it's their confidence, whether it's their physical abilities, so many different things. And now that I've avoided all those things by moving up and being in a comfortable space, I mean, I've been on weight the entire camp. It's almost surprising. You know, even at one point, I had to gain a little bit of weight, which I'd never had to do

camp. So it's a beautiful thing. It's a blessing to be comfortable and not to try to make weight to try to fit in some type of narrative. You know, I get the big fights for that 160 at one point in my career. But now that I've moved up, I realize that, you know, it's not really the fighters. It's just, you know, it's me being myself because you're going to be judged regardless. Right. You know, John Ryder is not an easy comeback opponent, a Southpaw. He's very good at fighting on the inside.

We saw what he did with Callum Smith a couple of years ago. That was a tremendous performance by him. When John Ryder was presented to you as your next opponent, what was your reaction? Well, he wasn't presented to me as my next opponent. He was one of the options that I had a list of, and I chose John Ryder simply because I knew that he would bring it. But let's make this clear. I am not column Smith. I am none of the fighters that he has ever fought.

So you can't really compare, you know, some of his opponents to me. I thought John Ryder was a perfect fight for Calvin Smith because Callum Smith didn't really have a good inside game as far as fighting on the inside, having guys pushing back. I mean, Canello truly exposed him as well. So whereas me, I pretty much, in my opinion, I can do it all. I can fight inside. I can fight outside. I can switch. I can bang.

You know, I can do it all. And so there's very few, if any, flaws in my game when it comes to stepping in there on Saturday night. And it's going to be apparent. So I'm just looking forward to displaying my skills, but you cannot compare me to anyone that he's ever fought. You fought in a lot of big places, New York, Vegas, California. First time fighting in the UK. How have you felt kind of being over there, you know, during this fight week?

And how comfortable do you feel you're going to be going into a fight on an enemy territory, I guess? Well, to be quite honest, I think the main reason why I chose this fight was because it was a, I don't even think it really had anything to do with John Ryder, even though I respect him as a fighter. It mostly has something to do with the experience because I've always wanted to fight in London or in the UK as a professional. And so when I heard the different options, I jumped on it as soon as I heard it because I thought it would be a great idea. And also because I thought that John Ryder would push and come and that would be able to really give the fans a good show. and allow us to really display our skills, style-wise. And so, yeah, I'm looking forward to the energy in the crowd,

whether or not they're rooting for me or not. I mean, we've seen how I performed before, where 98% of the crowd was for the other opponent. And yeah, that turned out to be an interesting story. But, you know, I believe that this would be a different turnout in terms of how the fans would treat me. Not saying that I'll have everyone in there cheering for me, but at the same time, I don't think that it'll be something that

will be something that will motivate me and boost me because, you know, going from fighting my last fight with no fans in the crowd to fighting with a sold-out crowd here in London, where I've always wanted to perform, man, it truly motivates me and excites me. And that walkout is going to be very special. You mentioned just a minute ago that you were looking to fight Joe Smith last year. He's, of course, 175-pounder title holder. Do you look at your future as, like, whatever the big fight is, 168, 175? If you win this fight, you'll go wherever? Well, I won't say that.

I'll just say that's just kind of where we were presented with at that particular time. And my ultimate goal is to be a Hall of Fame fighter. And so as I'm making that transition into coming back into boxing from a long layover, my sights as far as how to conclude, you know, such a long and successful career, my ultimate goal is to be a Hall of Famer. So what fight does make sense for me? Obviously, it's on my focus and it's on the forefront.

But I trust my team. I trust what they have inside for me, the insights. I'll let them do that part. My job is to stay focused and stay ready. And we have our team back together 100%. So I don't have any issues whatsoever. What do you, just last thing for you, what do you think cements your status as a Hall of Fame fighter?

Is it another title, another weight class? Is it a specific win? What gets you there? In my opinion, because it's always opinions. I think you can never truly say, you know, what exactly would do it. But I definitely would say becoming the two-division world champion in and possibly getting another one of those big fights that people respect the opponent.

And they probably see the fight as a 50-50 fight. Or even the fight of Eden because, remember, I'm stepping up in weight classes. And, you know, I'm fighting guys that weigh me out by at least 15, 20 pounds, whereas people used to say I was taking advantage of the little guys in the middleweight division when I was actually their weight. So, I mean, we'll have to see what the future presents, but it all starts for Saturday night. Yeah, no question about it. Danny, good luck on Saturday. It'll be a fun atmosphere.

Good to have you back. And thanks for a few minutes. Thank you very much. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. And if you aren't betting with me yet, what are you waiting for? I'm now seven and one since I started making picks on this podcast. I was two for two last week picking Keith Thurman to win and picking him. him to win by decision. That's after calling correctly the Mark Megsayo upset over Gary Russell

Jr. This week, I am zeroed in on Daniel Jacobs against John Ryder, 168 pound title elimination fight over in the UK. Jacobs has not fought since November of 2020, and that gave me some reason for pause because John Ryder is a lot better than his record suggests. He went to the Matt with Calam Smith in a terrific fight, a couple of fights ago, and has won two fights since then. Still, I am going with Daniel Jacobs by decision. Jacobs is reunited with his former trainer, Andre Rogier. They have had a long, full camp together. There is, I think, a reinvigoration in Daniel Jacobs, who knows that this fight is win or go home.

I don't think Jacobs has the power at 168 pounds to stop John Ryder, but I do think he he wins a fairly comfortable decision, even going into John Ryder territory in the UK to do it. So Jacobs, by decision. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Daniel Jacobs for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

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