The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - What's next for Tank Davis

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Chris is joined by longtime boxing writer, Keith Idec to discuss the Tank Davis - Ryan Garcia fight, how impressed they were with Tank, and what they think both fighters have next. Later, the actor who plays George Foreman in the new movie "Big George Foreman"; Khris Davis stops by to talk about what it was like playing Foreman. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Manix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the volume sports podcast network. Keith Ideck, senior writer with boxing scene.com. He's going to join me in just a moment. Keith was in Las Vegas for Jervante Davis versus Ryan Garcia. I want to get into that. Also, what is next for both guys?

Was this a one-off or could we see both insignificant fights before the end of the year? A little bit later on, Chris Davis, the actor. He plays George Foreman in the upcoming film, Big George Form. which is a biopic on Big George's life and career. I've seen a lot of promotion for that fight over the last couple of weeks. NBA games been promoting it, boxing events, I've been promoting it. So big push for Big George Foreman this weekend. I talked to Chris Davis about playing that role and kind of what he had to do to really try to capture the essence of George Foreman.

So stick around for that. But as promised, Keith Ideck from boxing scene.com. He joins me now. Keith, another Vegas trip completed. another big fight in the books. And Javante Davis showed out in this one. Pretty much dominated Ryan Garcia from start to finish. Gets himself a seventh round knockout.

So let's start there. Your takeaways from Davis versus Garcia. You know, it was a very good performance from Javante Davis. You know, I would say that he said he wasn't hurt in the second round. Ryan Garcia said that he felt that he hurt Javante Davis at one point in the second round. and Giovante Davis did hold several times after that. But beyond that, it was a very, very good performance from Jervante Davis.

He did what he ordinarily does. You know, he analyzes, he breaks someone down and he takes someone out. And that's exactly what he did with Ryan Garcia. Obviously a great counter left hand on the inside in the second round. And then, you know, it was fitting, Chris, in that he goes down from a left hand up top again in the second round, except this time he's the one who gets knocked out, with a left hand to the body in the seventh round, whereas he did the same thing to Luke Campbell

in that fight that, you know, really defined a lot of Ryan Garcia's career before Saturday night. But a very, very good performance from Giovante Davis. He did what he said he was going to do, not necessarily to the body. And maybe that was something that they thought they were going to do, but certainly didn't divulge before the fight. Because, of course, now there's a lot of things coming out about Ryan Garcia getting hurt to the body during sparring. And according to his former sparring partner had to go to the hospital at some point from that left to the body and then was fired as a sparring partner and all that. But I don't know how hurt he was going into the fight. He didn't say he was hurt going into the fight, but apparently this did happen in sparring.

I don't know how close to the fight that actually was either. But a good, very good performance from Jervante Davis. And it's interesting, Chris, because after the fight, he was asked if Ryan Garcia was the best opponent of his career. He hesitated before he said yes, but he did say yes. I mean, and Garcia was dangerous right up to the very end because he has great hand speed, great power. But a great performance from Giovante Davis overall, and he continues to ascend in the sport. I mean, I don't know if he's the face of boxing per se. I mean, he's damn near close to it.

I mean, I would still say Canello Alvarez is the biggest star in U.S. boxing, but certainly a great performance and a great event from Javante Davis. A lot to unpack with what you said there. First, I did think Javante was outstanding in that fight. He had a great game plan. He knew Ryan Garcia was going to try to put him out with that hook. And how he slipped under that hook so efficiently in the second round was really impressive. Like, he knew when it was coming. He knew what to do when it came.

and when Ryan threw it for the third consecutive time, Giovante was there to land that big counter. And Javante, he might be the most powerful counterpuncher in the game today. I don't know if he's the most accurate, most active, but when it comes to pure power, Jervante gets a lot of leverage on his punches. And he hit Ryan clean with that counter left. And then, look, maybe Ryan heard him.

Maybe he didn't. There was some holding in those first couple of rounds. But really from the third round on, Jervante was just in complete control. You know, Ryan made a nice adjustment, I guess, kind of going to the right hand more. I thought that was more effective than his hook. But, I mean, Jervante, you know,

just being able to set up that body shot and landing it with such precision and such force. You know, people might look at that on replay and say, well, he didn't get much leverage. But when I call boxers and talk to them, they're like, look, that liver shot right there, that's as tough a shot to recover. cover from as there is in boxing.

If you hit it right, you just can't move. So I'm not really here for the, you know, Ryan could have got up. Ryan quit kind of debate. That was a beautiful, beautiful shot from Gervante Davis. So now, as far as the sparring partner, this got weird over the last couple of days. You had that Mongolian Olympian out there putting videos on social media that our good pal, Lou DeBella, was only happy to amplify it because he's got him on his show. coming up, saying, I'm sorry, Ryan, I didn't mean to hurt you.

I'll knock out tank for you. Just ridiculous. Now, for whatever it's worth, you know, I called Joe Gousen. Joe Gusen said it didn't happen. Who knows? Like, I don't know how all that all played out, how that all went down. But, look, Keith, to me, it wouldn't have mattered. If Ryan Garcia did not get hurt to the body in sparring, the result would have been the same.

if Ryan Garcia had an unlimited rehydration clause, the result would have been the same. At this stage of their careers, in my opinion, Jervante Davis is just better than Ryan Garcia. He is a finished product, whereas I look at Ryan Garcia as someone that needs to be molded, that needs some repair to his game. And how many times, Keith, did we see him throw that left hook? And when he missed, he was wildly out of position. Like he was not in a position where he could defend himself. And on that third power shot, he got dropped.

He got up, give him credit for that. But I think Ryan Garcia has a lot to work on. And Tank might be peaking right now as a fighter. Absolutely, Chris. And I think the thing that was maybe underplayed in the immediate aftermath of the fight is Jervante Davis took Ryan Garcia's left hook away. He repeatedly said throughout the promotion, he didn't use the words, one-trip pony.

He said, you know, you only have the hook. only have the hook, you only have the hook, you only have one punch, he just repeated it throughout the promotion. And he took that punch away from him. I mean, what more could you ask for than that? I mean, he took away his best weapon. And yes, he did get hit with some right hands, but it's a boxing match. You're going to get hit with something at some point. I mean, I think he's a pretty solid defensive fighter, but you're going to get hit at times, and that's not uncommon. But his game plan was great. They executed it masterfully. And something that's, it's not a new narrative, but over the last few fights, Calvin Ford and others have repeatedly

mentioned that he doesn't get enough credit for his boxing IQ. And I don't know how you wouldn't credit him for that at this point. He continues to do the same thing to fighters who are dangerous. Roli Romero is a huge puncher. And he made him walk into something eventually. And he gave away some rounds and he was very patient. And he made him walk into something that changed the entire fight and ended their fight pretty abruptly in the sixth round. And now he's done. Not quite the same thing, but he was patient and picked apart Ryan Garcia and then took him out. And he's a very smart fighter. He's a very skillful fighter.

He's not the most active fighter, obviously. He's not going to throw a ton of punches. He's not going to set any copy box records or anything like that. But what's the difference when you're getting the final, you know, when you're getting the results that you're getting, that really doesn't matter. I mean, because he can give away, he's the type of guy who can give away rounds because he's such a precise counterpuncher and is such. a huge puncher that the combination of those two things means he can he he could be down i'm not put i'm not saying he's dante wilder he's not i mean he's much more he's a much better fighter than that he's much more skillful fighter than that but much like dionte wilder has done you know let's say in his

second fight against lees he was he was down he was getting shut out and then he lands they detonates one of those right hands and it's over so let's just say gervante davis fights let's just pick a guy, Devin Haney, Chaucor Stevenson, you know, fights we want to see, he could give away rounds conceivably in those fights and be down and still come back and knock the guy out eighth, ninth, tenth round, because he's just a, he's a pulverizing puncher. He's really smart. And he's the most, I would say he's the most dangerous counterpuncher in boxing. Yeah, I agree. Jervantes' game plan, as we said, brilliant. Calvin Ford, excellent work in this fight. Ryan's game plan I didn't really like.

even from the beginning when he was having success. Ryan at his best is a counterpuncher. You look at some of his best performances, whether it is, you know, Luke Campbell, Francisco Fonseca, Romero Duno. He's at his best when he's kind of laying back and taking advantage of mistakes. He's so quick with that hook, quick with the right hand.

That's, I think, the best version of Ryan Garcia. It surprised me, Keith, to see. him be so aggressive early, to see him try to cut the ring off and try to force Gervante into corners, especially when you know that Gervante is cat-like. When he is ready to strike, he's going to get you. And if you're going to be the aggressor, to me, that's leaving you overexposed. I just, it puzzled me a little bit to see Ryan so aggressive, especially when you know, too, when you miss, again, that left hand, when it missed, he was wide open for those counter shots. I just didn't like Ryan's game plan. I love Gervantes. I didn't like Ryan's. I didn't

like Ryan's game plan. What did you think of that? I don't know what his game plan actually was because what he said was he did some things. He became impatient and then he did some things, made some mistakes that he wasn't supposed to make. So I don't think he really followed through with what Joe Guse said he wanted him to do. He admitted that he that his impatience, that his haste really cost him in the fight. He said something that was kind of odd what he said in the press conference that he got bored and he wanted to make the fight exciting. So he started doing things that he wasn't supposed to do, I suppose. I don't know what to make of that exactly,

but he said, you know, other guys who are more active and can stay more disciplined, meaning I guess, could really stick to their game plan for longer periods than I did, might be able to beat Jervante Davis. He actually said that in the post-fight press conference. He said, look, if a guy can stick to his plan and throw more punches than I did,

he's going to have trouble with activity. So I don't really know what the game plan was, because I don't really think he stuck to it all that long. He went away from it as early as the second round and obviously paid a dear price for it. And Joe, you know, Joe Gusson was not at the Post-Five press conference. And I don't think he's going to come out and criticize, you know, Garcia for going away from the game plan early.

But it certainly sounded like whatever the game plan was. He didn't stick to it all that long. Yeah, I talked to Joe for about half an hour on Monday night. And he basically tried to focus on the positives, you know, said that there were a lot of things you could, you know, positive you could take away. The experience of going up against the Tank Davis in that type of setting is an overall positive. But there are definitely things that Ryan needs to work on. I did, I did find it interesting in the post-Fights press conference to not see anybody up there

representing Ryan Garcia. Like Eric Gomez was there from Golden Boy, but Joe Gousin was not there. Oscar Delahoya was not there. Bernard Hopkins was not there. Now, Joe told me it was for his part, it was a miscommunication that he didn't know the press conference was taking place in the arena right after. And by the time, you know, he realized it, it was already over at that point. So that's what Joe says. Oscar comes out with a video and says there was a threat made in his life. I'll take him at his word. I will say that I contacted Las Vegas. Vegas PD. They don't have any report of that or any incident report reflecting what Oscar was saying. And Bernard, he was banned? I don't know. I didn't hear any of that. I know there was the whole thing about was Bernard touching Gervante too much at the way in and maybe potentially putting testosterone cream on him. I mean, there's just some weird stuff that was out there, Keith, about what Bernard was doing. I did find odd that Bernard was on that side of the

deus when Gervante was weighing in. That seemed a little bit strange. range. But, you know, overall, when your fighter just lost the biggest fight of his career and you are a part of his team, I feel like you should be up there, no? Like, you should find your way up there. Like, every one of the Golden Boy people that, and, you know, Team Garcia as well, that were part of, you know, Ryan's entourage coming into the venue, should be part of his entourage leaving the venue. At least that's my take on it. Now, I understand where you're coming from, Chris, but I would say this, you know, Eric Gomez, who is the, you know, he's basically runs Golden Boy promotions. I know it's Oscar's company, but Eric is the, you know, is the guy who does all the dealings for the most part. Eric was standing right behind Ryan Garcia, the entire press conference. So he was represented by Golden Boy Promotions. I don't know. I saw what Oscar said as well. Look, I don't know what happened. I don't know if he felt threatened in some way. I don't know. So I'm not going to, look, if someone said they're going to kill him and he felt.

like maybe I should. That's not for me to say, I suppose. People, Keith, people have told me, like, I heard that version of it before Oscar came out with that video. So, you know, several people said that something very specific happened where Oscar felt that his life was in jeopardy. So I do, I'm going to take him at his word that something happened. Right. To cause him to leave like that. Bernard was just weird.

I know why Bernard was there. But as it relates to Bernard, I would say this. Chris, I probably think it was a good idea. I don't know if he was actually banned or not. He was very pissed off after the way in, and he had sent some things about PBC and about Kelly Swanson and trying to keep him out of the pre-fight final press conference on Thursday, not putting a seat at the day as for him.

He was very aggregated about that. But based on what happened at the way in, he got into it with Jervante Davis. I mean, Jermante Davis said he did put his hand. I don't know how much he touched him, but he did touch him. He did. He did. to Davis off, and it almost caused an incident at the press conference. I would say it probably

would be best if Bernard was not on the stage for the post-fight press conference because Ryan Garcia was up there with Eric Gomez, Lupe Valencia, who was obviously his advisor, attorney on all that, his mom and his dad. At a certain point, you're running out of space to begin with, but if Bernard were there, they all waited for Jervante and his team to come. He didn't have to do that. I mean, he could have very easily just walked up, you know, did his part, you know, fulfilled his obligation and walked off stage, but they stayed. I don't think it would have been a good idea for Bernard Hopkins and Javante and his team to be in the same space after the fight because I think there was still a lot of animosity built up from the day before. So it probably best that Bernard wasn't there. I'm not saying he wouldn't have gone if he wasn't quote unquote banned.

And I'm just taking him at his word. I don't know if he was banned or not, but that is what he said. but probably best that he wasn't there to him because I don't know I mean you know Dervante Davis and Ryan Garcia were very cordial toward each other and it's always good to see that when there's a buildup and there's things said and everything one of the things that I found as an aside Chris that I found it was pretty cool to see it you know Dravante had said some things at the press conference you know and it's stuff to build the fight and also you know there's a lot of testosterone involved and they're getting close to weighing in and they're

really, you know, the, the tension is building up. And he said something like, don't bring your mom and don't bring your daughter to the fight. He kept saying it. And then after the fight, on the stage when Ryan Garcia and his team got up to leave, him and Ryan, you know, hugged and all that kind of stuff, shook hands with his dad. And then Ryan Garcia's mom was, you know, she was a few feet away from Giovante Davis. But Javante Davis initiated giving her a hug. I think in a way to kind of say, hey, I'm sorry about everything that happened before the fight. Please don't take it personally.

And then she, I think, very much appreciated that, whispered in his, you know, said some things, I'm assuming very kind words into his ear. And I kind of like, you know, like touched his face. You know, it was very sweet to kind of see that at the end, especially when guys are saying things before the fight about each other and everything. And to see that moment between Jervante Davis and Ryan Garcia's mom, really, kind of speaks to how different of a sport boxing is because ultimately they respect each other and respect their families and all that kind of stuff. So it's pretty cool to see that. Yeah, I thought it was great afterwards. Two guys with a lot of animosity before the fight to bury

the hatchet the way there, which we frankly do see a lot in boxing, stuff like that happening. You know, there's a lot of, as you said, testosterone going during the buildup. There's a lot of heat. but it was cool to see those two guys. And look, you know, Ryan Garcia hopes for a rematch down the line. Maybe it could happen two or three years. Who knows, depending on the career career arc of Ryan Garcia. So maybe we can see these two guys do it again. But before then, Keith, you know, Gervante now has some interesting choices to make.

There are two guys at 135 that are the gold standards, for lack of a better phrase. You've got Devin Haney, who has all the belts at 135 pounds. He's got a big fight coming up against Facilia Lomachenko. We're not discounting Lomachenko's chances to win that fight by any measure, because Lomachenko remains an elite guy. But for the purpose of this discussion, let's say Devin Haney is the guy that come May 21st, has all the belts. Shakur Stevenson is the other guy that's part of this equation,

two-division world champion, making his bones at 135 now, coming off a big win. earlier this month, I guess. I checked in on, you know, from people around Shakur. Basically, I was told there's a less than 0% chance we see Shakur and Tank Davis in the ring sometime this year. So that's probably not going to happen in 2023. But Keith, Devin Haney to me is interesting because it's well known. Devin Haney is going to be a free agent after this fight.

He can do whatever he wants. Now, the assumption is that Hainey is that Hainey is. that Haney will move up in wait to 140. He has been sucking himself down to get to 135 for a couple of years now and is really staying at 135 just for this showdown with Lomachenko that he's wanted for so long. But, and I haven't talked to Devin about this specifically, I do think that if Tank Davis is there and Tank Davis wants to make a deal,

I do think Devin Haney would stay at 135 for one more fight. That's just my opinion. I think Devin wants these big fights so bad that he would stay at lightweight for one more fight if it's against Gervante Davis. The question then becomes, is there a deal to be made between Devin Haney and Jervante Davis? Another promoter wouldn't be involved. You've just got Devin Haney out there as a free agent, so PPC could theoretically do this without involving top-ranked matchroom, Golden Boy, whoever it may be.

The question is, is there the money there? to make that fight happen. Is there the interest there from Showtime, from PBC, from Girvante Davis to make that fight ultimately happen? I saw Stephen Breadman Edwards on Twitter this week say that a Gervante Ryan Garcia fight would be the biggest fight in lightweight division history. Now, I'm not ready to go that far,

but it certainly is a major event. Do you think there's a possibility or what kind of percentage chance would you put on Gervante against Haney at some point later this year? You mean breadman said that Givante Davis and Haney would be the biggest one lightweighted? Yeah. Ryan Garcia.

Haney, sorry if I said that wrong, yeah. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Well, look, it would be for all the lightweight titles, right? It's makeable of court. Look, I think we just have to wait three weeks basically to get the real answers that we want because we have to happen in the lightweight title fight. It's not, in my opinion, and I'm sure not in yours either, a foregone conclusion that he's going to win that fight. So if Lomachenko wins, it obviously changes the entire division.

If the money, right, if Devin Haney wins and the money's right, sure. I mean, he, and why wouldn't Jervante Davis want the fight? It's the opportunity to become, you know, he's been criticized a lot for being a secondary champion at 135 and a, you know, a secondary champion at 140. This would be an opportunity for him to become the undisputed lightweight champion. And so, of course, he would want it. I don't know that it would be a bigger fight than Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis, just from a popularity standpoint, but it would be a huge fight and historically significant and would do good pay-per-view numbers and everything.

So we're just going to have to see what happens May 20th, I guess. But if Lomachenko wins, of course, Chris, well, then I would expect Lomachenko to fight Chikor Stevenson because they're both promoted by top rank. And then toward the end of the year, I would expect to see Chikor. get the opportunity to get all four lightweight titles as opposed to Jervante Davis and then build toward and who knows when it would happen or if it would happen but Chacore fighting Javante Davis which in my opinion is the fight in the lightweight division because I think if Chacore fought Devin Haney.

Devin Haney is an excellent fighter but I think I would favor Chikor Stevenson to win that fight. I would favor Javante Davis to beat Devin Haney as well but Haney's excellent and but how much longer can he be effective at 135 pounds because he is really he's a tall kid you know he's growing how how effective can he continue to be at that weight class against the elite level guys like chakor and and jervante davis who are very different fighters but but extremely effective in their own ways and that's why i would favor both among the reasons i would favor both of those guys to be that's interesting that you say you would favor jervante over devon hayney um look devon hainey's

chin has been a little shaky in the past. Most recently, Jorge Linaris clipped him late in their fight. So that's always going to be out there. But one thing about Devin, look, he is one of the best jabs in all of boxing. And we talked about Ryan kind of shifting away from his game plan. Devin's one of those guys that no matter what he's going to follow his game plan, like you cannot deviate him from what he's doing in there in the ring. Sometimes he gets a little too, you know, kind of chesty and wants to throw down with you a little bit. But for the most part, and we saw this play out over two fights with George Cambosis,

he's disciplined in there. And I think in a fight with Tank Davis, he's not going to press him in the way that Ryan Garcia pressed him. He's not going to overexpose himself in the way that Ryan Garcia over-exposed himself. I think, look, I think it's a fascinating fight because to your point earlier, Jervante doesn't need to win those early rounds to win the fight. He's got the equalizer. He's a great counterpuncher, and he lands it with detonating power. But Devin is just so crafty in there.

I think what it would come down to, Keith, is kind of what you said as well. Like, how much does it take out of him to get to 135 one more time? He's already kind of at that limit. He's training during Ramadan. I don't know what he's going to feel like when May 20th rolls around. You know, maybe he decides, look, that's it. There's opportunities at 140, big money. Maybe we'll see Tank down the line.

line, but knowing Devin, he's one of those guys. I hate to use that phrase, but he wants all the smoke. Like, he just wants these fights. And he's done whatever it's taken up until this point to make some of these fights happen. I just believe Devin, Bill Haney, they'd find a way to bleed their body one more time to get down to 135. And if they do, that's just, that's a fascinating matchup to me. Like, that is just a real contrast in styles between the boxer against the puncher. Yeah, Chris, I mean, look, I hope you're right, obviously, because I would love to see all of those fights, actually. I'd love to see Haney and Tank and Haney and Chikor and Tank. I mean, we want to see those great fights in the lightweight division.

And look, I'm not saying that I favor either of those two guys by a lot over Dev. Devin Haney is damn good and deserves credit for initiating this whole thing, particularly in the lightweight division, for going and taking the fights and doing whatever was necessary. because before Ryan Garcia made the concessions that he made to get the Dravante Davis fight, Devin Haney agreed, obviously, to not just go to Australia once, but to go there twice. And then the third fight deal was to fight Lomachenko. I mean, this guy's not shodhap's not shodhapha. So the only reason why I think that he might not fight Javante Davis or Chikor Stevenson if he beats Lomachenko is because he just killed himself to make the weight one last time.

That's the only reason why I think he wouldn't take the fights. because in terms of, as you said, wanting the smoke, so to speak, he's not shying away from anything. And I wouldn't expect him to shy away from those two fights either. But, you know, maybe we eventually see those two fights. And I don't think Javante is going to move up anytime soon. And I feel the same. Shakur, in fact, told me, and I'm sure he told you the same thing a few weeks ago, this is his weight class for quite some time.

He might wind up at 140 or 147 or whatever. I'm sure he will fight at 140. But he's going to stay at lightweight for quite some time. So, you know, maybe we see those fights down the road at some point. But look, I really think we don't get, aside from him, you know, winning or losing against Lomachenko, I don't know that he's going to be able to accurately answer whether he could make 135 one more time until, you know, the afternoon of May 19th, you know, when he really knows how much it killed him to make 135 again.

Because, you know, that last time he looked, you know, he didn't look all that great getting on the scale before. for his last fight against Cambosis. It's got to be hard for him. He's a five, nine and a half or whatever he is. He's a pretty tall kid for the weight class. So I'm looking forward to May 20th, regardless. I mean, that's going to be a great fight. Yeah, no question about that. And you're right about Devin. When you see him walking around fight week in sunglasses all week, that means you're trying hard to get down to 1.30, 35. That means your eyes are sunk and you're really having to work to make that limit. So we'll see, you're right. We'll see what happens May 19th, May 20th, and where Devin goes from there.

Last thing on Ryan, going up to 140, that's the right move, his body, he's a growing guy, give him all the credit in the world from making this fight happen. This fight doesn't happen with Giovante Davis unless Ryan Garcia makes concession after concession to get these two guys in the ring. But now he's going to 140. And it's not as simple, Keith, as him gaining four pounds and not having to rehydrate. He's got to make some real corrections, I think, up there. As we talked about the top, he's got to figure out a way, how not to be so out of position when he misses.

Because these bigger, stronger guys at 140, whether it is Regis Progray, whether it is Teofima Lopez or Josh Taylor or any of the top guys in that weight class, they're to make him pay for it if he winds up out of position, maybe more so even than Giovante did. And look, I think to me, one of the questions I have is, will Ryan ever be the type of guy? that is willing to exchange with you. When you watch that fight with Tank, like every time Tank threw something and Ryan saw it coming, he just kind of turtled up a little bit and protected himself.

And I understand that instinct, but to me, to win fights at the biggest level, at some point you've got to take some chances. At some point, you've got to trade. You've got to throw with your opponent and maybe take a big shot or two to land a big shot or two. And I still haven't seen that yet from Ryan Garcia.

Not to say it can't be there, but at this point of his career, he's been so effective at landing that one fight-changing, devastating punch that we haven't seen him be willing to mix it up. And for him to be truly successful, I think he's going to have to do that, Keith. I think he's going to have to bang a little bit with some of these great fighters that are waiting for him at 140. Well, Chris, I think it's interesting because the one time he did trade with Jervante Davis in an exchange, he got knocked on his ass. So maybe that's why he didn't, maybe that's why he, you know, look, if I, I understand what

you're saying, but I would, I would shell up and be careful against Javante Davis, too, because he's got pulverizing power, which he showed the other night again. And he did, you know, when Ryan Garcia got knocked down, that, that's what he meant in the post-fight press conference where he made a mistake and he got over-anxious and over-zealous and started throwing punches and just kind of threw caution to the wind, because he was throwing a right hand that I think it slightly landed. landed when Jervante Davis landed that counter left that knocked him down. So, you know, maybe he doesn't trust his chin.

I don't know who would trust their chin all that much against Javante Davis. I mean, he's a huge puncher. So, you know, so maybe he might be more willing to mix it up with other guys at 140. You know, we'll see, I guess. But I think they're going to ease him into 140, Chris. I think, you know, once he does come back, you know, maybe the summer or whenever he decides to return to the rings, early fall, whenever it might be, you know, he'll get a, I don't know, about, soft touch, but he'll get ready.

Keith, prediction, Mercito Hesta. Hesta just beat Jojo, Mercito Hesto Hesta at 140, yes. 140, well, that fight was supposed to happen, January 28th, so it wouldn't surprise any of us, I suppose. But look, you know, he's coming off the biggest fight of his career, the toughest fight of his career. He's going to get a gimmies for the, I'm not saying,

you know, Hesta beat, he did beat. That's why it's okay. You know, that's why I think the fight has a little bit of acceptability. Right. And Chris, if he got someone worse than Mercito Hesta, I don't think anyone, you know, he just, you're not going to fight Jervante Davis every time out. So, you know, he's going to, he'll ease into 140 and then take a step up in his second fight at 140 and then probably be in the mixed. You know, he's a star. I mean, there's no two ways about that. So, so he can afford a, you know, a gimmie, so to speak in his next fight and then see where he goes from there. And then, you know, see. The other thing is if Haney does, if he, if he leaves one thing. relinquishes his titles and then goes back to the zone and matchroom. You know, we could see Devin Haney fight Ryan Garcia, which is a fight that people had wanted to see, obviously, at 135. So there are plenty of options for him there.

And again, the kids, you know, whatever fundamentally he does wrong, whatever mistakes he made Saturday night, what's indisputable is that he's a star and boxing can't have enough of those. No, it can't. And, you know, I don't know if or when the paper. review numbers will get reported, but I think they were pretty good. You know, and I think that it'll be validation of that fight and the work it took to ultimately put it together. I mean, I just think, and Ryan kind of acknowledged this at the press conference.

It acknowledged us after the fight. Like, he's got work to do. Like, he's got to get back in the gym and clean up some things because the guys at 140, maybe they're not as dangerous as Gervante Davis, but they're dangerous. Like, they're some tough, tough guys and some big punchers at 140 pounds. And, you know, Ryan Garcia is going to have to be ready for them once he gets there. I think it'll be more than just one kind of tune up fight. I think Hesta makes a lot of sense, summertime, early fall. And then maybe you'd take a step above that, a natural 140-pounder.

You know, I'm just Jack Catterall or somebody of that ilk in your next fight before you jump into, you know, maybe the more dangerous guys that might be out there, like a Devin Haney, if he eventually makes his way 240. You were in Vegas. A lot of BBC people there, showtime people there. We keep hearing. We're inching closer to Terrence Crawford, Errol Spence. What was the buzz in Vegas about a potential Crawford Spence fight? You know, when I spoke to Stephen Espinoza during the week, you know, he's optimistic about the fight and people don't want to, Stephen or from anyone else, they don't want to hear about optimism. They want to hear that the fight is made based on everything we've all, you know, the road we've been. down with this fight already. But Stephen said, look, you know, we're optimistic. I think we're further down the line than we were in the fall even. And he expects it to happen. You know, I wrote, he spoke about that on the record with me and other people out there and other people

I've spoken to internally do expect that the fight is going to happen either late in the summer or early in the fall. Hopefully it's true. I mean, hopefully, you know, I was also told, you know, there was not going to be an announcement on Saturday night. There was no plan for that to happen unless suddenly a deal came together at the 11th hour. You know, Errol Spence was at the fight, but that was, you know, he was going to the fight regardless because he's, you know, he's a BBC guy, and it was a huge fight and everything he wanted to be there. And it was never planned to be June 17th, which had been reported by multiple people. But they do think that the fight, they're optimistic that the deal is going to get done and the fight is going to happen. Now, I think we should all take the same

approach. We'll believe it when we see it, right? So, but hopefully it does happen because, look, if we move forward in 2023 and we already got Giovante Davis against Ryan Garcia, and then we get Spence versus Crawford, and then maybe toward the end of the year, you get Fury and Usick or, you know, even if you don't, it's still, it's still progress because we've seen some of the fights we wanted to see. So, you know, there's a good top rank fight coming up, not that this is the fight that people have been calling for for five years, but what Josh Taylor fights to you? Fimo Lopez, it's a good fight.

I mean, it's, you know, so guys are fighting each other, which is what people want to see. And this, hopefully, this opens the doors to,

to more fights between, you know, that bring networks and streaming services together and promoters together and such, when the fighters demand that the fights happen. And really that's all we can ask for in the sport. We're not always going to get what we want.

We know that. But if we, if we get some of, you know, three or four fights that we really want to see over the course of 2020, I think we would feel much better about this year that we felt about 2022. No, I think it's a very good start to 2023 with the potential to get even better with a Spence Crawford fight.

Of course, Haney Lomachenko is tremendous. Teofima Lopez-Taylor in New York is tremendous. I'm crossing my fingers that we're going to get Virgil Ortiz and Stanionis in the ring together. That is a tremendous fight for a title at 147. And so hopefully we get most of what we want, at least in the first half of this year. And including Keith, look, I was on YouTube last week looking at some fight interviews, watching some stuff. I see Jamal Charlo out there saying I had a conversation with Demetrius Andrade. We agreed.

We want to fight each other. I see Demetrius Andrade posting about it. We might get it, Keith. It might be coming. Andrade versus Charlo in 2023. Look out, world. I think if it actually happens, you might have an aneurysm. I'm almost afraid if they make the fight, you know what I mean?

You won't be able to handle it. Your brain will overload if the fight is actually made, you know? I want, if that happens, I want a one-day contract to work for Showtime. I want a one-day contract. I just want to be there. Like, put me in that Ariel Halwani role, whatever you want to do. Just put me there because there is nobody, Keith, and I think you'll agree.

Nobody in boxing that would hype that fight more than I would. Nobody has hyped that fight more than I have. I mean, how much more could you hype it for God's sake? You've been carrying on about it for five years, for Christ's sake. Well, let's get us on the phone. We'll get you that one day contract. But look, all kidding aside, Andrade is in the BBC universe now, so there's a reason why it couldn't happen.

And look, Jamal Charlo supposedly is willing to come back June 17th, which is now creeping closer here. Yeah. He was and then he was. him and now he is, but they're having trouble finding a suitable opponent. They don't want him to fight Selecki. There was hope that if Jared Hurd would have won his fight in March, that he, I don't think the public was necessarily clamoring for that, but he probably would have been Jamal Charlo's next opponent. He hasn't fought in two years almost. It'll be two years in June,

so I hope he fights a credible opponent whenever he comes back. I hope it's a credible opponent. If it's Demetrius Andrade, I mean, boy, it'd be like Christmas in June or July or August or whatever for little Christmas anics. You know what I mean? Let's go. I don't care where it is. Houston, Providence, Vegas, Antarctica. I will be there for Andrade versus Charlo. I have T-shirts, Keith.

Andre Charlo selling on the volume website right now, the fight of the century. Andrew. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I just saw it. I thought you were.

when you said that the last one. No. Oh, these actually existed. Hey, all kidding aside, even though I love it. Like, both those guys kind of need it. Like, there's nobody else out there for them. You know, the middleweight division is useless. You're not going to see Charles O. versus Caleb Plant anytime soon.

Might as well do it and see if both these guys are PBC aligned, then, you know, maybe the winner can leapfrog into a bigger fight. Well, one thing I heard about Andrade as an aside, Chris, before we wrap up here, that, look, I would prefer to, I don't think it need, I understand that Morel only has nine fights. I get it. I would prefer if I would prefer to see Morel Benevita's next than waiting around. I understand Benavides wants to fight Canello. Everyone wants to fight Canelo. I get that. I would prefer to see that next, but I have heard Andrade as a potential next opponent for David.

That's interesting. Morel, Murrell, Merle's a beast, man. I, like, I don't know what I'm looking at with Morel because, look, Falc Coa was overmatched. He was 35 years old. No, I know we'd never been stopped, but he was completely overmatched. But everything I've seen from David Morel, he's got, he's the goods, man. He looks like the real deal out there. Yeah, look, if the Benavides fight doesn't happen next, it might, and I'm not saying Benavides couldn't beat him, but Benavitas could just as easily lose to Morel, I think, too. So you'd be sacrificing one of the guys on the PBC side of it before Benavitas would get the opportunity to fight Canello, which is what he wants, of course. course. But man, that's a, commercially, I don't know if it's a huge fight because Morel only has

nine fights and he hasn't fought the highest level of opposition and all. But like you said, Chris, he looks legit. I mean, the Morel is beast, man. So if they can put that fight together, I think people, imagine we get back toward the end of the year and you throw that fight on top of all of the other fights that might happen in 2020. It's a hell of a year. Follow Keith Ideck on Twitter at Ideck boxing. Read his stuff over at boxing scene.com. Keith, I'm going to go towel off after I got into an Andrade Charlo Lather. But thanks for joining me, my friend. Well, on that note, my pleasure, Chris, I'll see you.

And when we come back from the movie Big George Foreman, the man who plays George Foreman himself, Chris Davis. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to?

do a little count. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally.

But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Chris Davis is the star of Big George Foreman, the miraculous story of the once and future heavyweight champion of the world. exclusively in movie theaters on April 28th. Chris plays big George Foreman. And Chris, the most difficult part of playing George Foreman was what? The most difficult part of playing George Foreman, I got to say,

had to be the weight gain and weight loss that I had to experience throughout the entirety of filming. I mean, because there were, we filmed in two blocks. And in the first block, I would, I mean, I would have to shift my weight from like 225, one week, and then the next week I would have to bump my weight up to about 242. And that's insane to do in a week, you know, and then the next week I'd have to cut it down again, you know.

So I think that the weight gain and the weight loss and also, to be honest, to be, if I'm going to be completely honest, learning how to fight like Mr. Foreman was one of the biggest challenges overall. So talk to me about that weight gain and weight loss. What were your secrets to it? No secrets. It's really just working hard, doing two days. If you take in a boxing class or even if you fight on the regular,

you know that that is some serious cardio. So just doing the boxing training in and of itself got me in that kind of shape, hitting a heavy bag. You know, it's a full body workout. So that really got me helped to get me into some shape for the first half of the film. but also I would work out in the gym. You know, after I would train, I would go back home, and I would eat and take my protein shakes,

and I would digest until I'd be back in the gym in just a couple of hours. So basically doing two a days for about three months. But when you had to kind of let yourself go a little bit and not be in that kind of shape, were you just not doing the exact opposite when it came to that? The literal exact opposite. But it wasn't easy.

You know, because, you know, there's some challenges when it comes to getting in shape and being in shape and maintaining that. But also, gaining 50 pounds in five weeks is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. You know, because I had a nutritionist who gave me a plan. And it was 4,000 calories for days where I was working where I'm just sitting on the couch, right? You know, so you think, oh, 4,000 calories, that is nothing. Then it was 5,000 calories, okay, for days where I would be filming. 6,000 calories for days where I would be in the gym, right? But I looked at the program and I said, you know, if I do this program, I'm never going to make weight in five weeks.

I'm never going to be 270, 280 pounds. So I'm mixed and matched, I put the program in my own hands. I ended up feeding myself 7,000 calories a day. And in five weeks, I went from 225 to 275. What was, of all the calories you were putting in, was there some meal in particular that, you know, you really got to enjoy during that period? Chris, don't take like this. You're eating 7,000 calories a day, there's no possible way to enjoy food. It would take me two hours sometimes to just get something down.

You can't taste it at that point. And I did it all pescatarian, by the way. I didn't eat any red meat, any chicken, any pork. I didn't do any sugar. So it was all clean. It was all clean. So it was difficult, man. I think the hardest thing for me to eat, though, and this might surprise you, okay,

was an almond butter, raw honey. banana sandwich. It might sound good. It might sound good, but if you don't mind choking to death, that's the sandwich you want. That doesn't sound good, to be honest. No, I'm talking, I mean, really,

it's like two inches of, like, almond butter and, like, raw honey and banana between two pieces of toast. It's the driest, thickest sandwich you'll ever have in your life, man. You know? So authenticity obviously is

important in fights like this and you mentioned that or movies like this you mentioned that you worked hard to try to mimic George Foreman's fighting style what were the challenges of that

and like how did you find that whole process? I think the challenge was to well the overall challenge was to do it justice right and like you said the word authenticity

to be authentic because we all fight in the way that our body wants to. We all move in the way that our body wants to, but getting his particular and specific mannerisms down was a challenge. And then understanding that he wasn't just someone who was in the ring throwing wild and crazy punches, that he was an intellectual fighter. So bringing that to the forefront, bringing that to the style, and making sure that was highlighted to honor all of the work that he had done, all of the learning, all of the practicing, all of the effort that he had put in.

I wanted all of that to come through on screen. Because I think that can be overlooked when it comes to Mr. Foreman. Because oftentimes most people, if you didn't see him fight in the 70s, you know him as the comeback champion, right? in the 90s, but you don't really know anything other than he's the guy that Ali had to move through. And you can bypass all of the time that he put in to becoming champion, all the other heavy weights that he beat at that time, you know, who Ali also fought. So for me, I wanted to highlight just how skillful he was in the ring, how tactful he was in the ring,

how smart he was in the ring. And I also wanted to highlight how big his heart was outside of the ring beyond being just a brooding menace, you know. How much time did you spend with George before filming? Just a few days. Most of the stuff that I had on him, you know, I read his autobiographies, you know, which gave me a lot of insight to the dude, you know, the man that he was. then I had the interviews from YouTube or wherever you can find them of championship in the past,

the champion in the future and some when he was a pastor. But going down to Houston and meeting Mr. Foreman, that was important because I needed to understand who he was when he wasn't in front of the camera. you know, I needed to understand who he was when he wasn't talking about fighting, when he wasn't talking about church. I just wanted to watch the man sit down and be. And that's how we're going to tell this story. What was the more or the most impressive win or more impressive win to you? Foreman's win over Frazier in the second round, which set up that Ali fight or the comeback win, the Michael Moore 12th round knockout?

which one is more impressive to me. I got to say, well, they're both, obviously, you highlight in both of these fights because they're both impressive, right? But I think without his prior experience, Michael Moore could have never happened, right? So I would say for me,

I'm going to go Joe Frazier. I'm going to go Joe Frazier, because he shouldn't have won that fight, right? And that's a fight that you can look at and see what I mean by his fighting IQ, about his fighting IQ, right? All you see are the big blows,

but you don't see the parrying. You don't see that he's actually doing the Matador and the bull with Joe Frazier during that fight. You don't see the stop blocks and how he's stopping Joe Frazier's shoulders and how he's positioning Joe Frazier to be where he wants him to be for those big shots. So if you watch that fight, you actually see a very smart defensive fighter. You know, so I would go, I would go there with the Michael Mora fight.

It was definitely about, about precision and patience in that fight. You know, when I watched that fight, you know, the many times that I did, I was wondering to myself, I was like, man, Michael, Michael Moore really kind of took the bait on that. He really, you know, because Mr. Foreman, Mr. Foreman wasn't chasing him around. So he was preserving all his energy and he was very sharp with those shots. And when you see that, I mean, I think the Michael Moore knockout for me is probably the most impressive knockout because my first time seeing it, I'm like, I was like, wait a minute. He said, wait a minute. Did the guy throw in a fight or something?

Because how? Right? And then you really get in there and you see how Mr. Foreman landed that cross right on the button, man. you're like, wow. So that was more about precision. But I'm going to go off track here from those questions, and I'm going to tell you the most impressive fight that I think I saw Mr. Foreman in was him and Ron Love.

Yeah. That fight is but none, you know? I agree. I agree. By the way, you still call it Mr. Foreman. Is that why do you call him by? I call him Mr. Foreman because first and foremost, he's an icon. You know, he's earned the right to be Mr. Foreman.

He's a deep legacy that should be respected. And he's one of my elders, you know. And I would never speak of him as though we were both on the same level at all. So I would say Mr. Foreman because I think he deserves that kind of difference. You know, boxing fans, they know of the Rumble in the jungle. Like what an iconic event it was. moviegoers know about the rumble and the jumble and probably because of Ali

and how that was a pinnacle moments in that movie and really told over 30, 45 minutes. How important was it for you to make sure that you tell George's version of that fight? Because really at the end of

Ali, all we see of Foreman is walking out of the ring. We don't know all the stuff that happened after that. We don't know the impact that the lost Ali had in his fight. How important was it to you to make sure that that part of the story was totally important to me? Before I even got the script for this, I was always wondering, I was always wondering about his story because we've seen this victory being played over and over and over again in various iterations through film and TV or many different documentaries. But I was always wondering about George Foreman. Like, why, why, why

Why don't we talk about George Foreman? And I have a very controversial outlook on that fight anyway. You know, there's a lot of stuff that's happening in there. And I'm like, somebody got away with a lot of stuff. And I'm like, that's not, that's all I'm saying. And I'm like, so I kind of, when I went back and I'm walking, fight, I'm thinking to myself who this man is who had to deal with. with all of that. Why wasn't the ref calling X, Y, Z? Why was he allowing those types of holds?

Why was he allowing that type of meaning, whatever you want to call it? And by all measure, Mr. Foreman takes full responsibility for the way that he fought in that fight. But as a viewer, I was wondering about the George Foreman that I was seeing and his story, right? Because he wasn't He wasn't there because he was a tomato can who got lucky because something was vacant. No, he went, he beat, he beat the champ. And it was Joe Frazier. You understand what I'm saying? So I always wondered what it was what it was like for him.

So being able to have that kind of responsibility and being put in that charge, everything, not just that, but everything that I had in my hands in regards to telling the story about Mr. and I treated with that kind of delicacy because I think that he was highly misunderstood even at that time in the 70s when even all the way back to when he raised the flag in the 60th Olympics I think he was highly misunderstood from the jump you know and I wanted to I wanted to in a sense help to reframe the story around him and also give people some insight on who he was because I don't think a lot of people know that he was the champ already when they fought. You know, Ali wasn't defending a belt. He was coming for the belt. And I think people miss, you know, overlooked Mr. Foreman in a lot of ways like that. And I just thought there was an opportunity

to help give some, give a legacy, a story, some shine that should have been given that kind of shine from the door. We got Mr. Foreman and we kind of bypass Mr. foreman to get to Mike Tyson. Do you have a foreman grill in your house right now? Everybody asks me, do I have a former grill in my house in there? I don't have a former grill in my house

right now. I would love, you know, I haven't had a foreman grill since I was in college. Me too. I mean, I ate everything on that. I mean, what's the weirdest thing I think I made on that? I think I made, like, I took, like, some

some hot dogs and, like, put some sliced cheese between, you know, and then put them on the grill. You know about that. I can tell about you laugh. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Hey, the number of hot dogs I cooked on the Foreman Grill over four years at Boston College, I couldn't possibly track it. I couldn't.

Yeah. You know, you put the little thing underneath, get the grease out of there. You know, that's the one thing. That's the one thing I did not like about. about having to grill, what's having to clean that all the time. And the thing is, you know, you're in college, you're running around, doing whatever you're doing.

So, you know, you slip your mind, and next thing you know you look over it. You've got a tray full of grease and it's in your room. It's disgusting. It really is. Big George Foreman, the miraculous story of the once and future heavyweight champion of the world. That opens exclusively in movie theaters on April 28th.

Chris Davis does a great job portraying Big George. Chris, thanks for your time, man. and good luck with the premiere. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Chris Davis for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes

for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to

Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.