The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - What's the future for Teofimo and Bud Crawford

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

Keith Idec is back and he talks with Chris about the latest fights for both Teofimo Lopez and Bud Crawford and what the future may hold for both fighters, does BLK Prime have a future in boxing, and they preview Frank Martin-Michel Rivera. Later, Boots Ennis stops in to talk about his upcoming fight, and what might be next for him. #Volume #Herd #ColinCowherdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Mannix. All right. A lot to get into this week. At a busy weekend in boxing last weekend. And to my guest, Keith Ideck's surprise, I made an appearance at a non-dezone fight last weekend. I was at Mazda Square Garden for the Teo Fimo Lopez win over Sandor Martine. He is in Las Vegas for the Martin Rivera fight, which will take place on Showtime. A very good fight, although I'm curious to see how it does in terms of television ratings.

This is a fight that, you know, too young-ish, you know, would be content. vendors going at it. I'm very interested in that fight this week. And talk about that and much more. Let's bring in Keith Ideck out in Las Vegas, his home away from home, his favorite place to be on earth. Keith Ideck is here. What's up, Keith? Chris, what's going on? Yeah, it's, it is my home away from home. So a little less time here this year overall than in the past, but still probably about 40 days when it's all said and done. So yeah, familiar with Las Vegas for sure. And listen, whenever you show up to a fight, it's an honor to have you at ringside. Saturday night was a rare treat, you know?

Yes, to see my second fight for Sandra Martinez as many years. And I'm not entirely sure I need to see a third. We'll get into that a little later on in the show. We're going to get into Martin Rivera, a terrific fight that's going to air on Showtime this weekend. But I do want to look back at a couple of things. Let's start with Terrence Crawford. number one pound for pound on my list, top three at least on virtually everybody else's. He returns after a 13-month layoff and stops David Avanician in the sixth round.

That fight went largely as I expected. You know, Avanician is not bad. He's probably a B-B-minus level fighter. And look, he applied pressure early on to CROP for a little bit of time to kind of figure him up. But once he did, he landed an upper cut hook combination that has put Avanician to sleep. and reinforced to the Crawford supporters why he belongs atop the pound for pound list. Any surprises for you first, Keith, in that fight? Not from the way that it played out, Chris.

You know, Terrence Crawford, I've always had him number one pound for pound, and I understand the criticism of his resume and that he hasn't thought Errol Spence. I get all that stuff, but from a talent perspective from, you know, the way he, from what he's done in his career, I've always had him pound for pound number one. And I understood the arguments for Canello. Having said that, he beat David Aveneason in a convincing way that I expected that right hook was, you know, he put him to sleep basically. And that's what Terrence Crawford does. He gets in there.

He computes. He breaks you down. He beats you up and, you know, usually knocks you out. The one thing that surprised me about the fight, Chris, and I think we're going to have some sort of issue here moving forward is that Terence Crawford's gloves came apart. And there wasn't really anything done about it. I was sort of surprised, you know, of course we were at the guard. I watched the fight in the wee hours of the morning when I got home from the garden. And, you know, Rick Reno had told me on my drive home what happened with the gloves.

And I was surprised, you know, Rick Reno runs boxing scene. He, you know, and when I got, I was surprised that his gloves were torn in the way that they were. And that they took a real good look at the gloves before the start of the sixth round and allowed him to continue. I mean, they're meticulous about the gloves. Chris, every commission, I don't know not a big boxing commission. I understand. they don't have a lot of fights there and everything, but they did have WBO supervisors and the referee was from New Jersey. They had experienced people at ringside. And when I saw the way the gloves

came apart, I was really stunned that they did not make him put on the backup gloves. Now, of course, you're going to have an interruption of the fight. People are going to get bored. The fighters are going to get cold. But you simply should not, this is not Terrence Crawford's fault, of course, but you should not have fighters boxing with torn gloves like that, that just should not happen. So it looks like David Aveneaton is going to file a protest related to this situation. I don't know that it's going to go anywhere necessarily, but he has a valid point. Yeah, well, just let's get into that for a second, because that was bizarre. I haven't seen an incident of gloves tearing in a long time.

And when you look at the gloves in the aftermath, it's a pretty big tear it had along the side of the gloves. I mean, what is the fallout from something like that? I mean, I saw Everlast quickly came out and sort of fell at its sword and took some of the blame for it. I'm with you. I don't think Avanician has much of a gripe. In fact, if he did have a gripe, you've got to kind of put up the protest during the fight, right? Like, you kind of got to be more agitated about it in the moment. Is there any fallout from something like this? No, again, he's going to go through the process and do what they need to do.

In real time, though, Chris, I don't know that his corner, now this is a fault of theirs, of course, But I'm not sure they took a close look at the gloves. Maybe had they seen it really what the damage that was done to the gloves, they would have put up more of a protest before the sixth round started. And again, I don't expect the decision to be overturned or anything like that because the officials at ringside, the onus is on them to stop the fight for moving forward. And it's really their fault. It's not like they didn't inspect the gloves.

They did. I just don't understand why the fight. They have backup gloves. And like you said, Chris, we don't, we never see this. I mean, gloves are usually made well. You know, there are times in a fight when a glove will tear for some reason or another, but it is very rare, particularly in the place where it tour. It's just not something we're accustomed to seeing,

especially when they're custom-made gloves, Everlast does a great job. You know, other companies, Grant and others do great jobs with the gloves. It's just extremely uncommon. And unfortunately, for Crawford, you know, put some sort of controversy around what really should not have been a controversial result. all. Yeah, and I think you and I would both agree. I don't think the torn gloves had any impact on the outcome. You could see Crawford from like the fourth round on start to slowly put his foot on that gas pedal, landing body shots that were starting to slow Avanesean down, then coming up with that

combination. When I look at it in a boxing big picture perspective, what that fight did to me, Keith, was it at least preserved in my mind the idea that a Crawford Spence fight next year will still be elite against elite. I was a little worried coming in that Crawford at 35 years old might show some signs of decline. He did get tapped a couple of times by Avanician, but Avanician, I don't think he won any of the rounds in that fight. And he eventually picked up what was his 10th consecutive knockout, which you really don't see from, you know, world champions fighting at this stage of their career. More often than not, most of your knockouts for fighters come early in your career. Crawford's not picked up 10 straight at this stage. So that's pretty

impressive. I still saw a fighter Keith at the top of his game. And I was at least glad to see that because if they are able to revisit a Spence fight for the middle of next year, because of what I saw from Crawford, I'll go into that fight thinking you're still going to get a guy at the top of, I keep saying top of his game, but a guy at his very best. Yeah, Chris, I agree. And I think it's a testament toward the way Terrence Crawford lives his life. You know, he does not blow up in wait. between fights. He trains every person that I've ever talked to who has been in training camp with, and they're all very deferential to Crawford because of his pound for pound status and everything. But you talk to Shakur Stevenson, Heishon Davis, Stephen Nelson, other guys who spend time

training alongside Terrence Crawford, he is a beast in training. He takes it extremely serious, cuts no corners. He's an inspiration for those younger fighters to show them the way that you really need to behave as a world champion so that you're always in tip-top shape and that you never leave any stone unturned. And Chris, look at how he's gone about his career in the last few years. Some of it through no fault of his own, this case may be more so. He doesn't fight that often. He fights once a year or so. And then he comes around that one time per year and fights like the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world. People can say whatever they want about Sean Porter, that he had one foot in the, you know, some of the things that were set after the fight,

that he had one foot in the ring and one foot out. No one, and I mean no one, ever did that to Sean Porter. It's not like Sean, you know, like he was, he's the same age as Terrence Crawford. So it's not like he was some older fighter. And that had never been done to him. And Terrence Crawford came in off a one year layoff and did what he did. Now takes another, you know, a 13 month layoff or so comes in. And not Avanesian's not Sean Porter.

But, you know, he does what he does. And he's an elite level fighter. And you're right in that if they do finally fight, year and who knows. They do finally fight. It will be an elite welterweight against an elite welterweight. Let's just hope that we see it. So you are as in tune, are in touch with the people involved with the Crawford Spence negotiations as you can be. How easy think it's going to be to rekindle those talks at some point next year? Because I thought it was notable that when asked directly after the fight about Errol Spence, Crawford didn't really go there. He said looking to get the

big names, but he didn't specify that it was Spencer bust. And that's kind of what it's got to be. I mean, I don't know what Terrence Crawford would do, at least not at 147 after this. Does he look for the winner of Virgil Ortiz Stanionis? Does he challenge Boots Ennis? Like, I don't see those as being the kind of money-making fights that Spence will be. Do you foresee it being difficult to restart those talks and get past whatever it was they needed to get past the last time.

I do see it being difficult, Chris, and the reason primarily that I see it being difficult is because of the way Terrence Crawford went about finalizing this deal with Avanisian. Had he gone to Al-Haman, and I understand the flip side. Al-Haimban is the most secretive guy, and, you know, he never speaks to the media. People don't know what's going on behind the scenes. People are mistrustful for whatever reason about what's going on with PBC and such.

But, you know, PBC's the tractors, I mean. So I understand they're going to say, well, why does he owe that to Al-Hawfell? Heyman. I just think it would have been better business for Terrence Crawford to have told Al Heyman, look, I told you from the beginning, I was getting in a fight this year. For whatever reason, this Spence fight is not happening this year. I am going to fight before the end of December. I have this deal for to fight David Avincian for an enormous amount of money based on what type of opponent he is. I'm going to move forward with this fight. Hopefully we can revisit the negotiations

after I go beat him up. But he didn't do that. He, Al Haman didn't really know that he was fighting David Avincing until a couple hours before anyone else knew. So that's not a way to build trust within what's already from Crawford's perspective, a mistrustful partnership, so to speak. You know, I just don't, I don't know how they go. I'm not saying they can't, but it won't be easy because now, Haman is going to be very mistrustful of Crawford. So, and Crawford clearly is mistrustful of Haman. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think it's going to be just as easy as, you know, Errol Spence fights Heath Thurman in February,

and then they just pick up negotiations where they left off. I don't think it's going to be that easy. So Crawford was able to walk away from the Spence negotiations because he had this massive offer from BLK Prime to fight a lesser opponent like David Avanician. Do you think that option is going to be available to him next year? It's kind of my way of asking about the future of BLK Prime because, look, they released this press release with flowery language. They said, you know, early returns exceed expectations. I don't believe any of that.

Like, there's no way this could have been anything but a financial disaster for BLK Prime. If they paid him, the reported $10 million that is out there that they paid him. They had to pay Avanesian something. They had to put together the event. They did a good number in Omaha. I'll give him credit for that. but I can't imagine what a live gate in Omaha is equivalent to. So do you think this is the start of a potential relationship with BLK Prime?

And do you think BLK Prime is going to be around like this time next year doing fights like this? No and no. That's kind of what I think too. But you go first. I don't foresee Terrence Crawford being able to do another fight with BLK Prime because I don't think that this event will have been a fight. financial success. We all knew that Terrence Crawford would sell tickets at Omaha. He always has. Financial disaster. Let's just call it. It had to have been a financial disaster.

Look, Chris, even as we've discussed before, and I've discussed with other people on podcasts and whatever, let's just say the guarantee was $5 million. It would still be hard to turn a profit if the guarantee was $5 million because even at the lower price point, I just don't believe that a lot of people bought the fight. You know, people pirate the fight and all that. That's another issue altogether. but I don't think a lot of people were going to plunk down 40 bucks when there was a competing card on ESPN. And yeah, Tiefima Lopez, Sandoor, Martine, it was not, you know, Ali Frazier or anything. I'm not saying it was, you know, far and away better than Crawford and Avenue, but it was

on ESPN. You got three of the top prospects on their way up in boxing and different weight classes fighting on the undercard. Hishon Davis, Xander Zias, and Jared Anderson, who would look fantastic on Saturday night. So, you know, people would watch that. I mean, I just don't know that there were going to be even among the hardcore fans, the same number of buyers as usual, even among that hardcore fan base that we're going to buy this fight. Plus, there was a lot, whether it's fair or not,

because Terrence Crawford just took advantage of a financial opportunity that was presented to him. There was some resentment among boxing fans that they didn't want to help fund this event because Crawford went forward with a fight other than Spence. You know, maybe some of that comes into play here. So I just don't think it was a financial success. And I would be, it would be hard to convince me that Adrian Bruner is going to fight Ivan Red Cash in February, that that event is going to move forward. You are not.

I'm sure you talk to people, like everyone I've talked to in Ivan Redcatch's camp doesn't believe it's going to go forward. Like both for financial reasons and the fact that Adrian Bruner looked like a cruiserweight at the press conference. So I did. There's nobody. Like, they're preparing for it. They'll be ready. I have a red catch works out a wild card. They'll be ready to go.

But there is a strong disbelief amongst people around him that that fight's going to go forward. And Chris, even if it does go forward, what is the point of it? I don't know. I don't know. There's no point to it. You're putting it on paper. It makes no sense. You want to know what they should have done?

You want they should have done? I mean, first of all, Broner's got to find his way into fighting shape. That's number one. Number two, they should have found a way to do Broner and Roli Romero. Like, I don't think that's a good fight. either, but the way those two talk, you could have at least built it up over the course of a month, month and a half into something that maybe might have registered some interest. It still would have been a financial loss, but it's just more appealing than Broner Redcatch. When the last

time we saw Redcatch, Regis Proger was beating him up and he's been off for a long time. So I just, I'm with you, I don't see the marketability of a fight like that. And also, just look, look what just happened. Adrian Broner was supposed to fight Omar Figueroa Jr. on August 20. And the week of the fight, he withdrew from it and said he wasn't in the right mental space. And I don't want to, you know, I don't know, whatever was going on, you know, I wish Adrian Broner well. But how would you have confidence then that he's going to get to the point of this? Let's just say the fight remains intact. Well, how do you know he's not going to get to the fight week and then withdraw from the fight because he doesn't feel like he's in the right emotional or mental place to fight?

You know, so the whole thing is odd because you're building a. paperview fight around a guy who hasn't fought in quite some time and just withdrew from a fight four months ago because he he just was not capable of fighting. A paper view fight that no network in their right mind would put on pay per view. They wouldn't. This would be kind of a low level showtime fight if it was on that network. It just, I don't know who's buying that. Like Bronner's ratings have steadily declined in recent years. He used to be this really marketable guy at his peak, but he's not that guy anymore, largely because he hasn't had much success in recent years. His last fight, the majority of people watching thought it was either a draw or he

lost. So I don't really understand the thinking there that that's going to be your next step in the boxing space. It just doesn't sound like it's a moneymaker at all. All right, let's talk about the fight we were at this past weekend, the show at Madd Square Garden. Teufima Lopez headlines and squeezes out a decision against Sandor Martine. Let's start with the results. How did you score the fight? And did you have a problem with the decision? Well, I could see Tiafimo Lopez winning the fight very narrowly.

You know, it was a close fight, Chris. I'm not going to, you know, to score eight rounds for Tiafimo Lopez is ridiculous. You know, one of the judges had it eight rounds to two. Another had it seven rounds to three. I didn't think it was that type of fight. I saw a five, five, six, five. four type of fight. Look, judges favor aggression, whether that's fair to pure boxers or not, that's the reality of scoring boxing. They favor the aggressor, the guy who's pushing the fight,

which is what Tio Fimo Lopez tried to do. I don't know that he was all that effective at doing it. He himself would tell you that he wasn't. He came out of the ring. You know, you saw everything that was caught on the hot mic where he said, you know, do I still got it? I mean, he was even questioning himself after that performance and had said repeatedly after he left the ring that he's got work to do this was not his best performance he even said on his way back to the dressing room Chris he said I might have even performed better in the Cambosis fight and I performed in this fight you know um and you know people tend to overreact boxing fans tend to overreact with every performance as we well know so does this mean that Tiafima Lopez is done at the top

level because he struggled against Sandoor Martine. I don't think that. And Sandoor Martine's pretty good. He doesn't have the most appealing style, but he just beat Mikey Garcia. He probably seven rounds of that fight. Mikey Garcia was a four division world champion or what only lost to Errol Spence. So he can box. But he said something that was interesting to me to Bernardo Osuna after the fight as well, Chris. He said, you know, maybe I need to go to war more. I don't know that war is necessarily the right way for him to fight. But he himself acknowledged, yeah, maybe I didn't do without coming out and saying it, and maybe

I didn't do enough. While he thinks he was robbed and that he won the fight, in the back of his mind, he said, maybe I should have done this, I should have done that. So, yeah, but that's scoring boxing. The subjective science that it is and leaves us all frustrated and annoyed sometimes. Yeah, I scored

the fight for Teofimo. I was ringside for Sando Martine against Mikey Garcia. I scored that fight for Sando Martine. That was a much more convincing win than what Sandor Martine probably believes happened at the garden. Copy box numbers aren't everything, but you look at each round, Teafimo was outlanding him, albeit by one or two punches for most of the rounds. And the connection rate on power punches was significantly bigger for Teofima Lopez.

I just, it's just really hard to win. To your point, it's really hard to win fighting like that. Like you've got to clearly win rounds if you're going to fight backpedaling the entire. time. He had a lot of success doing it against Mikey. I don't think he was as successful against Teofimo. If it had been a draw, I probably would have been okay with that. I would not have been okay with Martin coming away with the wing because I don't think he did enough in this fight. And, you know, people on Twitter getting on Teafema was one thing. Even some media or quasi-media members getting on Teafemo, I was surprised how many fighters kind of got on him. I defy any of the

top 140-pounders to go out there and do that. dominate Sander Martine. It's just tough to do. Like, Mikey Garcia, who has an argument to be in the Hall of Fame, couldn't do anything with him, struggled with him. Now, some of that had to do with Mikey Garcia having one foot out the door as well, but he struggled in that fight. At a weight class, the Sandoz Martine was not especially comfortable at above 140. This was Sandoor Martin's natural weight. Despite the fact he took the fight on short notice, he came in a great shape. He had a good game plan. Dea Fimo was not preparing for a fighter like Sandoor Martine coming into this.

So I think that has to be taken into account. And he just makes you look bad. And he's going to make everybody look bad. You put Sandra Martine in against Regis Progray, and Regis Progrey isn't stopping him in the second round. You put him in with Josh Taylor. That's a hideous fight if you put Martine in with Josh Taylor. I'm just, I'm not here for the, you know,

I can't believe he struggled with Sandra Martine. I agree. He needs work. And, you know, maybe you don't have to replace his father, but I think they should start bringing in other voices. somebody else to supplement that team, maybe in the same way that Devin Haney does and has done with Ben Davison and others over the years.

I just, I don't think it was as catastrophic a performance as some people, including fighters, seem to believe that it was. Well, Chris, you know, the interesting thing is that he had another voice in his corner. Joey Gamash had been with him. And he fought very well, and he got to the point where he beat Vasily Lomachenko with Joey Gamash in his corner. So I don't know really know what happened.

there, but Joey hasn't worked with him for his last few fights. So I agree with that. The one thing that troubled me maybe about- Good strategy, Keith. One thing about Joey, we should point out to people that aren't familiar. Very good strategist, Joey Gamach. Like, he had a lot to do with the strategy going into that Lomachenko fight. So he's very good in that sense. Also, the thing that troubled me maybe more so than anything about T. F. F. F.E.M.L. performance on Saturday is that he didn't make the adjustments during the fight that he needed to make, because he continually came forward, lunged forward, and got caught with the counter-right hook. And Sandler-Martine knew how to handle him coming forward all night.

And he really should have been credited for two knockdowns. I could see the overhead view it looking like he cupped them behind his head. But then we saw the other camera angles where it looked like he caught him more on the side of his head. My personal opinion is that that should have counted as a knockdown. That came from a counter-right hook, as did the knockdown in the second round. Now, Lopez was not hurt either time. They were flashed knockdowns, but they should have counted as additional. Well, one of them did count as an additional point for Sandole Martinez.

And the second one should have as well. And he just kept getting hit with that same punch. And that makes me wonder what he's being told in the corner, why he's not making those adjustments to stop that from happening. Because it just happened time after time. Now, Sando-Mortina will land a ton of punches in the fight. But that fight, that punch in particular was his money punch in the fight. and Tiofimo should have figured out a way to combat that. And that's, I think, some of what he's referring to and saying we have work to do

because he came into the fight. He had told me and he told other people that, you know, I do well with Southpaw. They do great with Southpaws, which, of course, Vasily Olmecchenko is a Southpaw. Diego Magdaleno is a Southpaw who was way past his prime at that point. He beat up. Now, not every Southpaw fights the same way as we found out the other night. And credit to Sandor-Martine, it's not the most appealing style. It's not something people are going to want to tune in to watch on any kind of repetitive basis.

But it's effective. He's boxing. Now, some people call it running. Tiefima Lopez calls it running. But, you know, he called it a master class of boxing. And in some ways, it was. I mean, you know, you need to be somewhat more aggressive, as you said, to win that type of fight. But he boxed very well.

And he fought through a damage nose, which happened in the first round. He deserves credit for that as well. I don't know if it was broken necessarily, but there was a clash of heads in the first round, and his nose was all jacked up for nine plus rounds. So he deserves some credit. You know, it's not only what Tiafimo Lopez did not do. It's some of what Sandoor Martine did and deserves credit for that. It was a difficult fight.

It's not a fight any of us are going to want to see again. So please, I hope no one thinks there should be a rematch in any way. But, you know, maybe it gets people to fight Tiafimo Lopez. And I think personally, I think he's going to wind up fighting Josh Taylor. I think they're going to keep him away from Regis Progray because Progray's a big puncher. He's an unorthodox Southball. He doesn't fight conventionally. He doesn't fight anything like Sandor Martine.

And he's still in the prime of his career and he beat down Jose Zapata. I wouldn't pursue that fight if I were then. And it obviously makes more sense for him to fight Taylor if Taylor beats Caterall, which is no foregone conclusion. And if he stays at 140 pounds, again, no foregone conclusion. But that's the fight to make. That's easier to make because there's a lot. both with top rank, and I'm sure Taylor will look at the fight against Sandoor Martine, say, yeah, bring Teufimo Lopez across the pond here, and I'll beat him up.

Yeah, I think that is the way that they're going to go. It sounds like Regis Progray and Jose Ramirez are going to get a deal done some way or the other. It might have to go to Purs bid for that to happen. And I don't know what the PERSPid split is going to be. I don't think anyone knows at this point what the Pursplit split is going to be. But that sounds like, it sounds at least possible. I've talked to people in Ramirez's camp and they say they want that fight. Yeah, I mean, it's a sink or swim fight against Taylor for sure.

What worries me a little bit about Tafemar, two things. One, he's now been dropped by two non-punchers, right? Like, Cambosis is not a big puncher. And Sandra Martine is certainly not a big puncher. Now, he was caught by Martine at a difficult angle. He was lunging in. Some of it had to do with balance, but he was dropped. And he was legitimately dropped in the first round by George Cambosus in that fight.

So I start to wonder about his chin as we go into bigger fights with bigger punchers. The other thing is kind of his mental space, right? Like you go back a year ago and I was in those fighter meetings. You were around Teofimo. He was not in a good place. Like a lot of had to do with what was going on in his personal life. He was dealing with family issues. He had just had a baby.

Weight issues professionally speaking were problematic for him. So, you know, that was that. But then this fight comes around. And Teofimo seemed like he was in a better place. But I'm listening to Tim Bradley do an interview after the fight. And Bradley said something like the Teofima we saw in our fighter meeting was not the same guy we're used to seeing. It was not that same kind of upbeat guy. He was, he felt, Bradley felt like Lopez was going through some stuff.

So, and Bradley knows, a former fighter, Hall of Famer now. I wonder, I worry a little bit about where he is mentally. And there's no way to kind of, you know, project how to fix that. But I think that's something to watch as his career moves forward. You know, that's kind of my two sense. Yeah. You know, I went to visit T. Fiafima Lopez in training camp. He was training in Jersey.

And I was probably about 11 days before the fight I went down. I spent the while. I was there for a couple hours and I talked to him, you know, on and off the record. And he seemed like he was in a good place to me. You know, he's reconciled with his wife. and his son is back in his life. You know, that's a troublesome thing for anyone. You know, when you're separated from your wife and your son is not in your, you know,

that's tough. That's tough stuff, you know. So it seemed to me that he was in a good place, you know, mentally going into the fight. But certainly more so than he's, that he would have been, although I wasn't there for Fight Week because I was here covering a fight when he fought George Camposus, but certainly in a better place mentally than he was. going into that fight. So the thing about his chin that I would just say, Chris, is I agree with you. It's concerning because he's been down, you know, three times, well, twice officially, but probably three times.

It does seem to be a balance issue more than anything because he's getting these shots as he's lunging forward. His feet are not placed in the right position. And he has gotten right up each time. It never seemed to me in each of those three instances that he was really hurt. It just seemed like he went down. He's like, gosh, like more annoyed at himself than anything and then just got right back into the fight. He did not seem hurt against George Campososos to me either. But you're right. I mean, it keeps happening. And that's a thing you're going to have to fix.

It's from a strategic standpoint, from a fundamental standpoint, you're going to have to fix those things. Because if you do that against Josh Taylor, maybe he puts you away. Certainly if you do that against Regis Progray, he's going to put you away. So, yeah, those are things that he needs to correct moving forward. And as you said, probably not a bad idea. I don't know if the situation with Joey Gamash is fixable and they can bring him back, but bring another voice back into his corner because that certainly seems to be needed. Whatever he was doing going into the Lomachenko fight, do that.

Bring the same people back into your life in that one because that was your career-defining performance and you want to get back to being that fighter once again. All right, let's talk about a fight that happened just a couple of days ago. Noe in a way, the now undisputed champion at 118 pounds after stopping Paul Butler in the 11th round, Not surprising. Paul Butler took the fight. Didn't really seem like he was coming to win the fight. Had a survival strategy, I guess.

He was on the move a lot. He was in good shape. I'll give him that. He stayed on the move for the majority of 11 rounds. In a way, eventually catches up to him. I don't really want to talk about the fight itself because it was so one-sided. It was 10 rounds of none before In-A-way

blasted him out of there in the 11th round. In-A-way now moves to 122 pounds or will move 222 pounds. start here. Do you think how dominant he was at 118 can carry over to a higher weight class? Yeah, it depends on how well he carries his power, which I think he will because he's a pretty big puncher. You know, he's the monster for a reason, for sure.

There are good fights for him at 122, but guys are moving up as well. You know, it looks like Stephen Fulton is going to move. You know, the guys are advancing in weight. So, you know, Akhmedalev is there as titles. There are interesting fights for him, you know. But yeah, but what there's nothing left for him to accomplish at 118 pounds, right? So what, you know, remember there were people last year or whatever, oh, I'd love to see him fight chocolate. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I didn't get out of your mind? Like, what are you trying to get Chocolatito killed? I mean, you know, what exactly what would happen. So there's nothing really there for him. in that way class or anyone coming up from, you know, 115 that would be an appealing fight in any way as far as I can tell. So, yeah, so it's time for him to move up and then what kind of fights can they make? Can you get the champions? And, you know, we'll see.

But that's where he needs to go. I mean, because there's nothing left for him to accomplish a bantamly. Yeah, I think that Stephen Fulton would fight him. Sounds like based on some of his social media post, he's interested in coming back down and fighting him defending his titles. I think the challenge there is getting Fulton to Japan, frankly, because you know this. Like, in a way it makes a lot of money over there. Like millions fighting over there.

Almost doesn't matter who he fights sometimes. He makes a lot of money in that market. More probably than he would make fighting on ESPN or Showtime over here. So can I see a BBC fighter going to Japan to take on in a way? I don't know. I don't know if I see that. I think that's going to be a big challenge for that fight. I think Akhma Dahliav would do it.

Akhmadaliev has no fan base anywhere, so he can go wherever. His problem right now is that he's got another mandatory, which I think is his 36th mandatory in the last three years. There's a purse bid for that, I think, next week. It's the IBF, I believe. And he's going to have to take care of that mandatory. But if he gets through that, and maybe the timing winds up good here, if he gets through his mandatory, in a way moves up,

gets one fight at 122 to get used to it, It's a pretty big fight the middle of next year. And like I said, I don't think Akam Dahlia would blink about going over to Japan to fight Noya in a way. Yeah, I think the Akhmadalia option is more realistic than Fulton. Because I'm not saying Fulton doesn't want the fight from a business standpoint. There are a multitude of reasons why it won't happen. And I do think that he's going to settle in at 126 pounds and just stay there because it's hard to make. I mean, he's a tall kid for the weight class and it's not easy to make 122 pounds.

and, you know, he himself wants to fight Akhm. That's the fight he wants. He wants to become the fully unified champion. And for whatever reason, it hasn't happened. So, you know, of course, in a way, is a big star in Japan. And he's arguably, you know, some people have number one pound for pound, two, three, whatever. That's a bigger fight for Stephen Fulton. But the more meaningful fight to him is fighting Akhmadalia for full supremacy in the 122-pound division.

But that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. He has plenty of options at 126 pounds if he moves up in the BBC universe. There's a rematch with Brandon Figueroa, which I think people would really want to see. And I think that's more the direction he's going to wind up going. You know what? In terms of which fight I think is more aesthetically pleasing, I actually think Akkadahlia against Inouye would be a better television fight. Agmadaev is a talented guy who can crack. And I think he'd be aggressive.

I think he'd throw some punches. I think he would really test Inouye in a fight. So I kind of hope that Inouye gets a fight early next year. Akhmedaub gets a fight. middle of next year we get those two guys clashing for two versions of 122 pound title. All right, a couple of things I want to finish with. We had a purse bid just a couple of days ago for Virgil Ortiz and Stanionis. Golden Boy, surprisingly to me anyway, they won that purse bid.

2.3 million, 1.7 of which Stanionis gets because of some interesting rule by the WBA to give 75% of the purse bid to Stanionis. It sounds like this fight's going to get made, probably in late February or early March. Are you surprised that we're going to get a fight between two guys that are outside of Spence and Crawford at or near the top of 147 pound division? Somewhat surprised, because you would expect that Stanyonis would have tried, even though he's kind of sort of a PVC fighter. They're staying in the BBC universe. You know, you would think he would do that. And they did try to do that.

I mean, there was a while when Geron Ennis was convinced that he was the one who was going to fight Stanionis. In my opinion, that's an unwinnable fight for Stanionis as good as he proven to be. I think Virgil Ortiz will beat him as well. But I do see some vulnerability in Virgil Ortiz that I have not yet to see in Geron Ennis. That leads me to believe that San Jonas has a better chance to win that fight than he would if he would have fought Ennis. It's a good fight. Look, in this case, it's probably one of those instances, Chris, where the WBA's nonsense actually created something positive because we would not have seen Stan Yonis fight Virgil Ortiz

and Ortiz has fought Cavalascus. He's fought some decent opponents, but this would probably be the best opponent of his career, would be the best opponent of his career. It's an undefeated guy who look very good against Boutaev, who's, you know, strong and can punch. And it's a good fight. So, you know, I hope it happens. And, you know, Virgil Ortiz is getting the short end of the money, but it's about the opportunity. Although this WBA title should not exist, it gives him some leverage in his own pursuits of Welterweight title shots. And, you know, I think a lot of people hope because we don't really see Terrence Crawford or Errol Spence fighting Virgil Ortiz or Geron Ennis that eventually assuming they can remain at Welterweight that that's the fight. Geron Ennis and people have been talking about it for a while now, Geron Ennis against Virgil Ortiz.

So this would put Ortiz in good position to try to make that fight happen. I spoke to Ennis about this last week and I said, look, I know everyone wants to see the Ortiz fight. I'd love to make it happen. I hope that's the fight for me. He goes, but I kind of see Stanyonis Ortiz as a 50-50 fight. I wouldn't be surprised if either guy won and then I would just want to fight the winner. But to answer your question, Chris, yes, I'm surprised somewhat that it's happening, but doesn't Lee surprised and let's just hope it moves forward. And it's a really good fight in the first quarter of 2023 between two young undefeated guys.

That's what we want. It's exactly what we're getting sad. Maybe to a lesser degree, but we're getting that on Saturday night here in Vegas. Yeah, I think this Ortiz Danyonis is a can't miss type of fight. Like it's two guys, as you said, they can crack aggressive. You know, it's excellent. And like credit to, I mentioned credit to Golden Boy and Ortiz's team. I do think they'll be able to make up some money for Ortiz,

whether to zone gooses it a little bit to make Ortiz happy. Or look, they go to Texas. They could probably do half a million dollar gate if they work hard. down there. I mean, that's, that's, that's reasonable as Ortiz has grown as a, as a star, kind of in that, that area. Um, but they, like, when talking to people around Ortiz, like, they want to get him that belt. Yeah, it's a fake belt, but they don't believe Spence is going to fight, you know, him if he's ordered to. Like, they're, they're thinking is that, that WBA belt, he'll eventually get elevated to the full champion at WBA. Same thing with

boots tennis. Like, you know, he's not, Spence is not going to fight Ennis. He's going to wait for Crawford or move up to 154. He's been talking about moving up. So then we'd get, you know, full title holder Ortiz, full title holder, Ennis. My hope is, and I talk to Ennis about this as well, I just don't want to get on the same merry ground we've been getting on with previous welterweights. I mean, whether you go back to Mayweather and Pachia, circling each other for five years, Spence Crawford still circling each other.

I mean, are we about to do the same thing, do you think? Or is there any kind of reason to be optimistic that Ortiz and, Ennis would fight sooner than, I guess, the other welterweight's out there. You know, hopefully that merry-go-round would last a little, not as long as some of these other ones, but it will go on to some degree because they're going to fight, you know, make a mandatory defense or whatever. Like, my point is, is if he beats Stan Yonis and when Geron Ennis beats the crap out of whatever his name is, they will eventually, as you said, eventually be elevated to full champions.

And then, you know, hopefully within two years they would fight each other. That's probably a realistic timetable. But the other thing is as these guys grow, Chris, I mean, NNF 2025, Ortiz, I believe, is 24. They can't be expected to stay at welterweight forever. You know, Spence has been a welterweight his entire career. Crawford obviously moved up from lightweight in one world titles at 35 and 40 before he got to welterweight. So he hasn't been a welterweight for his whole career or anything.

But you can't be, you know, it's got to be hard for Earl Spend. particularly because he's made the mistake of blowing up and weight between fights. It can't be easy for a guy who's 32 going on 33 years old to make that weight. He's 5-9 and 1⁄2, 5-10, whatever he is. And, you know, it can't be easy at that point. So hopefully sooner than later that fight would happen. Let's just hope they keep winning. And at least there's the possibility of that fight because that would, I would favor Ennis, of course, but a fascinating fight.

I mean, Virgil Ortiz is a beast. Yeah. Offense. A lot of offense out of Virgil Ortiz. Offense and skill out of Geron Ennis. It's an unbelievable fight for both those guys. You know, credit, to your point, credit Spence for being able to make Welterweight this long. Guy fought the Olympics at 152.

He's been at 147 for his entire pro career. It's, yeah, I don't blame him at all for wanting to move up and wait. So I do think by like the middle of next year, last quarter of next year, winner of Ortiz, Danny Otis will be the full title holder there. Boots will be a full title IBF. and then hopefully, you know, saner minds can prevail, and we're not doing this all over again at Welterweight. All right.

Let's finish with the fight you're at. Terrific fight. Frank Martin, Michael Rivera, two guys undefeated. Martin is, what, 27. Michael Rivera is 24. They're both contenders. Surprised we're getting this fight? Like, you know, this is a great fight for people like you and me

that watch these guys coming up. it doesn't have the broad mainstream appeal. It's the kind of fight that, you know, to borrow a Bob Aram phrase, that promoters would let marinate under different circumstances. What? Let me ask you, why are they fighting? Like, I don't want to, I'm not poo-pooing it because I'm glad it's happening. But why are these two guys fighting right now at this stage of their career?

Well, Chris, that's a great question, particularly from Michelle Rivera's standpoint, because he's ranked number two by the WBA and he's in position to get a title shot sooner rather than later. of course he was hoping to fight Tank Davis for another WBA title that should not exist, but it would be a big fight for Michelle Rivera to go fight Jervante Davis in a pay-per-view event. So I was more surprised from his standpoint that he took the fight because he's ranked by all four. He's ranked by the IBF, WBA, WBC and WBO has a very high ranking with, and I think he's sixth by the IBF. He's in good position to get a title eliminator. And this fight is an eliminator as well, not a final eliminator or nothing.

an Eliminator. So I was more surprised that he took the fight because he seems to have a little bit more to lose than Frank Martin, who's only ranked by, I think it's the WBA. I think he's 10th by the BA. But Frank Martin is, and boxing fans, hardcore boxing fans have watched him somewhat in the shadows come up here. Some of his fights have been televised by FS1, Fox, and then his last fight against Jackson Mariner's was televised by Showtime. Frank Martin's a very interesting guy, Chris, in that he only started boxing when he was 18 years old. He didn't walk into a boxing gym until nine years ago. And look where he is.

He had 58 amateur fights in a place where boxing is not a hotbed. He fought most primarily in Indiana. He raised in Fort Wayne, Indiana, born in Detroit, raised there a little bit too. But moved to Indianapolis to start his amateur career. You only hear too many fighters coming out of Indianapolis. He now obviously is trained by Earl Spence's trainer, Derek James in Dallas. He's promoted by Errol Spence's company. he's a very humble guy, but in my opinion, one of the more underrated fighters that I've seen in boxing over the last couple of years and has come a very long way from someone who only started boxing nine years ago.

I wasn't surprised that he took the fight as much as I was from Rivera's perspective because Frank Martin had said, and Errol Spence said after he fought Jackson Marinas in the press conference, we will fight any lightweight that is willing to take the fight. And that proved to be true. It's a very good fight. It's a it's a hardcore boxing fans fight, Chris, obviously. It's not going to, you know, generate Jermel Charlo, Brian Castanio type numbers on Showtime. But it's the type of fight that we want to see. And I give both guys credit for taking it because it's a high risk fight at this point in their careers. I wish more fighters would do this type of thing. But I think it's going to be a very interesting fight. I favor Frank Martin. He's slightly favored. I believe he's a two to one favorite according. the odds makers. I think he'll win the fight, but Michelle Rivera has proven to be a very capable boxer. And again, lower profile fight, but a very, very good fight that I think hardcore boxing fans will really enjoy. I encourage people to watch it. It's going to be an excellent fight between two guys that are quickly becoming names at 135. And I'll tell you this much, Keith, I will not, no matter of the outcome, I will not criticize the loser because you don't need to see these guys in against inferior opponents anymore.

I give them all the credit in the world for stepping up and taking fights of this caliber, despite them not being as high profile or lucrative as maybe it would have been a year from now if they had fought some lesser guys. Real quick, what'd you think of Devin Haney kind of clapping back at Top Rank a little bit over the last couple of days?

Devin Haney, Devin Haney wants the Lomachenko fight in March, right? Because Devin Haney is Muslim. He is planning to observe Ramadan, and the way Haney is framing it, he believes top rank wants the stage the fight in May, which he believes because of, you know, because of Ramadan, would not allow him to train properly for that fight. We know Devin Haney, this is more likely than not being, it will be his last fight at 135 pounds. He struggles to make that weight anyway. What do you think of Devin Haney kind of, you know, going at TopRank a little bit on social media? I was surprised just because since he came to top rank, he's been treated very well financially and otherwise. They've been like a king since he's come there.

And the plan, of course, all along, the three-fight plan was for him to fight Loma Chenko. I understand what he's saying, but he also has to remember that he's making $4 million plus to fight Lomachenko, and they're going to try to bring the fight where they're going to make the most money. And if that means that the fight is going to be in met. What I would say to try to appease Devin Haney, because he's their fighter, whether he's, he remains with top rank thereafter, as anyone's guess, but he is their fighter. As is Loma Chenko, he feels because Lomachenko has been with them longer that they're showing preferential treatment.

All I would say to that is, well, who do you think top rank, they're never going to say this out loud, but who would they rather win the fight? The 24-year-old undefeated, fully unified, lightweight champion, or the 34-year-old guy who's at the back end of his career and you're not going to really be able to do much, with moving forward. I'm not saying they want Lomachenko to lose. I'm just saying from a business perspective, it would make more sense for them to want Devin Haney to win. Now, of course,

do you think that's true? Because, I mean, I get what you're saying, but like, there's going to be competition for Haney after this fight. I think Eddie Hearn's going to go back at him and try to re-sign him and there's some fondness there between the Haney's and Eddie Hearn. And if Lomachenko were to win, it would set up a pretty big fight

between Lomachenko and Chikor-Stevenson before the end of the year. I don't know if you get that if, you certainly don't get Chaucer Stevenson, but I don't know what the relationship would be with Devin Haney, regardless of the outcome of this fight moving forward. Well, they have to be wary, of course,

or mindful that he might leave, of course. But there are other big fights. If Haney wins, there are other big fights in the top rank universe for him. You know, obviously Devin Haney against Chikor Stevenson's a fight people would want to see. And eventually they'll catch up. up to each other and be in or Stevenson will catch up to him and be in the same weight class.

He goes to 140. T. Fiafio Lopez is still there. Josh Taylor's, you know, there are fights there for Devin Haney to be made if he remains with top, if he beats Lomacheco and remains at top rank. And the one thing you'd have to say is he has been compensated well. Now, he was being overcompensated by Matchroom and DeZone because they had to, they had to pay the price to do business with him and to get a young, talented fighter like him on that platform and with Matchroom.

So they overpaid to some degree. But he's been, you know, Chris Hill have made somewhere near, by the time his first three fights with top rank will be completed, he'll have made somewhere around $11 million. I mean, he's been treated pretty well. He's, of course, been exposed to a much greater audience on ESPN. And they're hoping to put the Haney Lomachenko fight on ESPN, not on ESPN pay-per-view. I think, you know, that's the kind of fight that could draw between two and three million viewers. So, you know, his profile would expand in that way. But you're right, Chris, in that it's always lurking in the back of their minds that Haney could leave top rank.

He does have a good relationship with Eddie. And he was treated well by his own, too, financially and otherwise. So it's always a possibility that he would leave. But I don't think there's – I guess what I'm saying ultimately is I don't think there's some plot to wrong Devin Haney here. And if you're going to be paid that kind of money, there are some things that you're going to – What I would say to just resolve all this, okay, if you feel like the fight being in May, is not fair to you, well, then you'll fight in June or July. Well, tell us what's fair and what it'll you to train in the right way. And we'll do that. Problem solved, right? There are no other restrictions

later in the year. Now, he can't come back and complain and say, oh, I want the fight to happen sooner. Look, they're making concessions on your behalf to make sure that you feel completely comfortable training for the fight and being as fully prepared as you can. You then can't complain that the fight's happening too late. You can have it both ways. Yeah, I think with, when I think about Haney in his future, one of the things I think about is Pro Gray and what comes up next for him. If that fight goes to a purse bid, I would expect Matrum to bid on it.

I would. You know, Matrum has had an interest in Pro Gray peripherally. They were trying to do the Pro Gray Hooker fight in the past. I would expect Matron to bid on a program. Ray Ramirez fight if that fight went to a purse bid. And that to me would be a sign that match room, which doesn't really have a U.S. footprint anymore. If you think about it, like, their top fighters in the U.S. right now are women, frankly.

You've got Katie Taylor, who is still part of Matchroom USA. You've got Alicia Baumgartner who's there. They're going to wind up doing a deal with Amanda Serrano for a fight in early February. They don't have a lot of male fighters. They've got Bam Rodriguez. They've got some of the smaller guys. I think they're going to get in the mix for a pro gray Ramirez fight. I don't have any, that's not based on anything I'm being told directly.

But I think that, if that went to a purse bit, it wouldn't surprise me to see matchroom jump in. And then, like, if you're in the pro gray business and if he can beat Ramirez, all of a sudden, you're talking about a landscape at 140 at the DeZone matchroom Golden Boy universe that makes sense to go out and get Devin Haney. Because you can do a Devin Haney, Regis Progray fight. You can do a Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia fight. There are some other lesser known names that might be available for the right price at 140.

So I just think that Progray Ramirez's fight is one to watch. Who walks away with the promotional rights for it? Because I had assumed when I was hearing that Ramirez was going to take that fight, that it would be definitely a top rank fight. I have been led to believe that's not necessarily the case moving forward, Keith. I think that there's a possibility somebody else jumps in and wins promotional rights for that. fight. And Chris, as we've seen in the past, top rank is more than willing to allow DeZone to either out, however you want to. They wouldn't let Jose Ramirez do that. Jose Ramirez has benefited

from that. No, that's exactly what I mean. Jose Ramirez, when he was an undefeated world champion, they allowed him to go fight on DeZone, no questions asked against Maurice Hooker, and he made a lot of money. They might be more than willing to do that in this case as well. And then they had that frees up more money for them to make other good fights on ESPN within their budget. So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. Jose's got, I think he's got a pretty big minimum. He's got a lot of, he's owed a lot of money. I think he said as much.

I think he said Matron was surprised at how much, how much he was getting paid from top rank. So we'll see. That's an excellent fight. And I think, I think anyone should want to get in on that fight, especially someone like Eddie Hearn who wants to make a name at 140 or start to get into 140 because that's pretty much can't miss. Pro Greggis, two elite guys.

That's going to be a fun fight one way or the other. Keith, enjoy your fun fight. this weekend. Rivera against Martin. Terrific fight on Showtime. I will not be there. I know you're shocked and disappointed. It won't be two at the last three weeks. We'll be side buddies. We'll take what we can get, man. Come on. Good to see you, my friend.

Same here, Chris. I'll talk to you soon, man. Thanks, dude. Appreciate it. See you soon. Thanks. When we come back, my conversation with Geron Ennis. So if you're looking to get more out of the NFL this season, now the perfect time to download

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moment more with Bandul an official sports betting partner of the NFL. All right, Geron Boots Ennis is an undefeated 147 pound contender on January 7th. He will attempt to win an interim title when he takes on Karan Shukagen. I hope I said that close to correctly.

That's a fight that will take place on the undercard of Jervante Davis's lightweight fight against Hector Luis Garcia and Boots Enis joins me on the show. For the unendip, initiated boots, the nickname. Where does it come from? My nickname was originally Boops, B-O-O-O-P-S. My mom gave me their nickname when I was little and then, you know, when I was going to the gym, you know, playing around.

Everybody thought my dad was like saying like boots like the shoes. We just kept and stuck with it. So, you know, I wanted to turn out good. Little did your mom know she was giving you your boxing nickname for life? at that time. Not your first time training for a fight over the holidays. I know you did it a couple of years ago for a January fight. How do you feel, though, about having to kind of watch your weight over Christmas? I mean, I feel great.

I'm still eating. I'm still eating and doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. It's nothing changed. I know how to get my weed off right in the right way. So, you know, I'm not too worried about the holidays. I still eat. Is there something, though, on the Christmas dinner table that you're like, you know, if I wasn't training, I would have this? No, I'm eating.

I'm eating. I got to eat. You got to eat the loose weight. I'm eating. It's nice to be in your mid-20s then, because. Yeah, definitely nice. Everything comes straight off. I'm curious for a guy like you, favorite Christmas movie to watch over the holidays.

any home alone that's good that's good that's good that's good that's a different generation that's even a generation almost before me like you that that goes way back yeah all the home alone i think they're good i love them what got you into home alone uh uh oh i don't i think one day i just turned it on it was on and i ever since i just been watching all all the home alone all four of them oh no not all four. You watch two and then stop. Like once McCauley Calkin exits, then you're, you're out. Yeah. No, I watch off four. I still like the other ones too. They need not too bad. That's that's dedication, man. I can't bring myself to watch one of them without McCauley Cuckettam. That's tough. That's tough for me. We're wrapping up 2022 and you'll only have one fight this

calendar year. 2020, you had three. 2021. You had two. This year, you were down to what has this year been like for you? How would you describe what it's been? I mean, this year, this year been great, even though I only got, you know, one fight in. Because, you know, Crawford, and we were trying to figure out with Crawford and Spencer was going to do.

You know, it was holding it up a little bit. So, I mean, but it is what it is, you know, one fight this year, but we're going to be aiming for three next year. So that's the goal. So, you know, I've heard you say that before that Crawford Spence held things up. I've heard your father say it before. What does that really mean?

Is it been like, you know, if you were kind of hoping it either happened or one of them would vacate a title, what were, what, how did it hold up your career? Like, just basically hoping they would fight or whatever, see what, you know, see what was going on. That's everybody, you know, all the 47 pounds was waiting around to see what they was going to do. So nobody really wanted to engage anything until they found out what Crawford and Smith was going to do. So once they figured out what they was going to do, everything. everybody started going in different ways and different things like that. So, and I originally was supposed to fight in, like, November or something like that.

And then I was supposed to fight in December. Then we wound up being in the call for the people review. So I was like, I was like, why night? That's even better, you know, and we was trying to get a solid opponent, you know, a great opponent. And we originally had St. Jonas, like then. And I think the WBA might have making an award or something like that for him or T. So, you know, they got a fight now. But, you know, hopefully we get to win her that, you know, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, I don't, so it don't matter.

Yeah, why. You know, I've, I heard you say before that you wanted Stanionis. Was it about fighting an opponent the caliber of Stanionis was the fact that he had a secondary title? Why did you want that fight specifically? Uh, I, I, I feel like that was the best next option because we were trying to get keep theremin and he wasn't available. And, you know, Stanion is a great fight. You know, why not fight staying on us. He got a belt, you know, and put on a beautiful show, you know, for the fans, you know,

and shine and show these guys that I'm the real deal. You know, I'm sure like most of us, you started to believe for a while that Crawford-Spence was going to get done. When it fell apart in late October, what was your reaction? I was, I didn't know what this, but honestly, I don't know. I was like they probably won't ever fight if they didn't fight this year. But I don't know. Hopefully they do fight next year. And I mean, if not, you know, that's an opportunity for me to fight one of them.

You know, and, you know, hopefully, you know, we can make that happen. What do you think deep down, though, like I, you know, you're fighting for the IBF interim title, which presumably would mean that, you know, Errol Spence, if he doesn't fight Crawford, would have to fight you in order to maintain that title. I personally, Boots, don't really believe either of those guys will fight you because you're too talented and the risk is not worth the reward. I think Spence and or Crawford were more likely move up before they face you. Realistically, do you think either one of those guys would get in the ring with you?

I mean, they two grown men. They ain't scared of nobody and I feel like they both would get in the ring with me. You know, it's only a matter of them, you know, making any amount of if they want to fight me or not. like, you know, right after it. So, you know, I feel like Spencer fight me and I feel like bubba fight me. You know, hopefully we can make that fight heaven. You know, so I can take them belts from them. Yeah, look, it's a great fight.

You know, I do find interesting the IBF is ordering an interim title when technically Spence doesn't even have a fight yet. We haven't even, like, did, was there a part of you that, you know, thought that maybe you would get a mandatory order to fight Errol Spence? What, what's the interim belt? No, without. Like even with, because, you know, Spence, we all think he's going to fight Keith Thurman. We assume he's going to fight Keith Thurman.

But, yeah, it's still not done yet. And I just found it interesting. The IBF created an interim title when their actual title holder didn't have a fight booked yet. Yeah, I mean, I do think this, I think they're going to fight. I'm going to keep them going to fight. And I mean, and I feel like I'll be next in line, you know. This IBF in the belt is going to pin me right there where I need to be. You know, it's giving me that extra boost, you know, pin me right there.

You know, I'll fight any, any guy that got a belt. next after this. If it's not Erospence, it'd be Crawford, Steyonis, or whoever went out Steynus and Ortiz, any one of those guys. Yeah, it certainly makes you unavoidable and puts you in a position soon to have the full version. Exactly. That flag is falling right in the place, right in the

line. You know, everything going, I was supposed to be going. All I got to do is handle business January 7th, which I will do. Let me ask you first. How do you see the Estandianianus Ortiz fight going? that's a great fight that's a 50-50 fight you know two great fighters you know

neither one of them going to back up I feel like they're going to be in the pocket the whole time you know and whoever going to be in the best shape

is that's who's going to win it is a great fight I probably favor Ortiz a little bit that may because I see a lot more of his fights than I do with Stanionis with him fighting so often

on his own but you know welterweight Geron has been it's one of those divisions that has not given us kind of what we wanted in the last 10 and 15 years.

We did get Pachial Mayweather eventually, but it was past its kind of sell-by date. We still haven't gotten Crawford v. Spence. Can you sit there right now, and if Ortiz wins, like, can you, are you sure that you will get a fight against Virgil Ortiz, not next maybe, but in the next 18 months of next year? Most definitely, I feel like that's one of the biggest fights in boxing.

Whoever went out of Ortiz or Staling. So, you know, that's definitely one of the biggest fighting boxing. I feel like that could definitely happen within a year or six months. It could happen next, real for a real. If it was up to me, it would happen next. But, you know, people are going to go different ways and try to move around. But I feel like if it was up to me, you know, I'll make anything happen. The best fights possible.

Yeah, and you've created, it seems like, some flexibility there. You've taken some risks in your career by going somewhat. independent. You've got a showtime deal, which has been great for you, I'm sure. But do you feel like you have a level of independence to kind of push for certain fights to happen? I feel like, most definitely.

Shout out to Showtime. Appreciate them. They always, you know, looking out for me and put me in right position and things like that. And I feel like they're backing me 100% in whatever fight that I want. Once I get a belt or anybody else that I want to fight, they will back me and, you know,

let me get the those fights and things like that. I'm already, I got to tell you, like, I'm, you know, after January 7th and then if Ortiz beats Danny Onus in February or March, I am just going to lead the bandwagon for Ns Ortiz if in that. Like, I'm telling you, man, like, I've been like peaking for that fight a little bit over the last year and a half, but if both of you guys are either a title holder, like you will be on some level in January, and Ortiz will be a secondary title holder, but I don't, look,

I don't think either Crawford or Spence is going to fight Ortiz either, frankly. But if you two guys are suddenly the men in a 147-pound division, that can't be a fight we wait like five years for in a different weight class. It just can't be. It's too good a fight between two fighters that are just too talented who can draw a crowd, who can put butts in seats in Texas or California or the Northeast, wherever you decide hold a fight like that. I mean, that's just a massive show.

Right. I think that's a big show, a great show. you know, I feel like that make a lot of money, you know, a lot of people will be excited to see that, you know. Yeah, last question for you. What do you kind of try to show in this fight coming up on January 7th? You're fighting guys pretty good, but relatively unknown, but you're fighting on a big stage.

I mean, Geronte Davis, that building's probably going to be sold out. It's going to do a decent number, I'm sure, on pay-per-view. This feels like a good opportunity for you to show out in a fight like this. How do you feel going into this fight? I feel I feel great you know it's only in Washington DC so you know that's that's right down the road from Philly you know the whole Philly going to be in the building jersey Delaware the Jain and everybody's going to be in the building so you're just going to be like me fighting at home basically you know and I can't wait you know if you're on a beautiful show you know get a

beautiful knockout you know in front of my friends and family you know I'm going to go out there and show me you know just me being me you know being smart you know picking my shots putting that pressure on, you know, getting that knockout, looking good, showing my defense a little bit, you know, having fun and becoming victorious with a knockout. Well, I'm glad to see you back in the mix, Geront, you're one of the best young stars at all of boxing, and I apologize in advance for filling up your timeline with like Ortiz Ennis, like hashtags and shit like that, because that's just,

that's just going to be me for most of 2023 if I don't, if that fight is on the table. I don't mind it. I'm going to retweet it. Good to talk to you, man. Good luck on January 7th. All right, thank you. Appreciate it. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered, comedy. conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

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All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandall. This week, I am looking at a very competitive fight in Las Vegas. Frank Martin, Michelle Rivera, 135-pound fight. Great matchup between two of the better young fighters in the lightweight division and a fight where the winner will absolutely take a big step forward and be looking at a world title shot sometime in 2003. Frank Martin is favored in this fight. Minus 280 right now over at Fandul. I wouldn't take that bet. That's not, those aren't great odds. Minus 280 for Frank Martin. It's almost three to one at this point. I like Frank Martin to win. But the best bet I like in this fight is Frank Martin by knockouts. He's got two

straight knockouts, including one over Jackson Marines, who is a solid fighter, a very good win, a very good knockout win for Frank Martin. I think Frank Martin is the real deal. He's 24 years old. He's been part of Errol Spence's stable for some time. He's trained by Derek James. I think he's got that knockout power in him. And I think he wins this fight by knockout. So take Frank Martin by knockout plus 195 over at Fandool. That's the pick I like. That's the method of victory that I like. Frank Martin by knockout. That's my pick. Brought to you by Fandul. That's it

for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Geron Ennis for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite

unhumored me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group

perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the

enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, Podcasts Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

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