The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - When Ryan Meets Devin

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Mannix and ESPN’s Mike Coppinger dive into Canelo’s surprising announcement, Teofimo’s performance, preview a Ryan Garcia-Devin Haney fight, latest on Conor Benn-Gervonta Davis and more #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. This is Boxing with Chris Mannix.

Part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. Network want to welcome in everybody that is listening on the podcast. If you are subscriber, I thank you for being a subscriber. If you are not a subscriber yet, get over to Apple Podcasts, to Spotify, wherever you download podcast. Hit that subscribe button so you get this pod in your feed every single week. So it has turned out to be a pretty busy week in boxing. Canelo Alvarez, the biggest star in North American boxing, one of the biggest stars in global boxing,

has not quite made an announcement for his. next fight, but he has dropped some significant hints in an interview in Mexico on Tuesday. What Canello did, to kind of summarize the interview, was he effectively ruled out a fight with Jaime Mungia in May. That was a opponent that has been talked about a lot over the last couple of weeks. Mungia, of course, coming off that impressive win over John Ryder. Well, Conello says that's not going to be his next fight. He said his next fight was going to be against an American.

And while there's no certainty, it sure sounds like that is going to be Jermal Charlow, who is the brother of Jermal Charlow. I find that decision to be puzzling. I really do. Because while Jermal Charlow has an undefeated record, still has a middleweight title, still has a pretty big name in boxing, that's not a competitive fight, and that's not a sellable fight. It's just not.

Jamal Charlo has fought once in almost three years in his last fight against Jose Benavides he won, but he got backed up a lot by a blown up welterweight. I just, I don't see a path to victory for Jermal Charles. And look, you can come back at me and say there's no path to victory for Jaime Mungia. I would buy that as well. But Jaime Munga is right now a full-fledged super middleweight. Jaime Munga is coming off the best win of his career. Jaime Mungia is not going to run from Canelo Alvarez.

Jaime would go out there and go out on his shield, which I think would make for the most marketable and most entertaining fight. But based on this interview, it sounds like Jaime Mungia is out and it sure sounds like Jamal Charlo is in. So we're going to unpack that. Mike Coppenter, senior writer ESPN, one of the best boxing insiders in the business. He's going to join me to talk about the Canelo quasi announcement. we're going to talk about Teafima Lopez, what's next for him. We're going to talk about rumors of a Connor Ben against Giovante Davis fight, and we're going to talk about what the landscape is going to look like with PBC over the next few months.

We know PBC has an event March 30th. If it's Canelo Charlo, there's going to be another event on May 4th. What's going to happen in between? What's going to happen beyond that? I get into all that with Mike Coppenter. Stick around. Great conversation with ESPN insider, Mike Coppenter. coming up next.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow Act. Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the Eye Heart, radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Mike Oppinger, ESPN Boxing Insider. The breaking news on Tuesday, Canelo Alvarez, is not going to fight Jaime Mungia in his next fight. This is the clarity Canello provided in an interview with TV Azteca where he announced

his fights are going to be on TV Azteca for the foreseeable future. That's great. The people of Mexico could watch it for free. and when pressed about his immediate future, Canello did rule out Jaime Mungia as his next opponent and said an American fighter would be his next opponent. Now, Mike, that whittles down the list pretty significantly. So I would say that probably means Canello and Jamal Charlo

are going to dance on May 4th. I got to be honest, I'm disappointed in that. That's probably, if you're going to make a list of potential Canello opponents, it's, that's the one I'm least interested in. What's your reaction to the, is the likelihood of Canello facing Jamal Charlo next? Well, I mean, that's been the expectation all along, right? No, none of us really, at least I didn't believe that he was fighting Mungia. Obviously, there's the issue with Mungia's promoter, Oscar De O'Hoya.

Canello had a very public divorce with Mungia's promoter. And again, you and I know Kinello pretty well at this point. Canello is usually like, all right, if I don't like you, I'm not going to give you the opportunity to get a beat down from me. I'm going to deny you the opportunity and the payday. So I'm not going to say never, say never with one gear. I think that's one obstacle. Now, Charlo, it's hard to get excited for that fight. Number one of which, I think, is that his own brother put up zero effort against Canelo in September.

He ran around the ring for 12 rounds. And I do think the term running is used too often. But that was running. And so there's no brotherly revenge angle. Tremal Charles fought once in what? the last two and a half years. He didn't look particularly good against Jose Benavides Jr. And we know who's going to win the fight.

We know it's not going to be a great fight. And again, from the narrative standpoint, there is no brotherly revenge angle after what happens. Yeah, I mean, look, this fight sucks. I'm sorry. Like, I know people are going to listen to this, say, oh, Mannix, you're his own guy. You want to see Canello fight monkey.

And there's some truths of that. I would have loved to have seen Canello fight monkey. I think that would have been an incredible. atmosphere in Las Vegas against two popular Mexican fighters. I mean, Mungia, Canello still the biggest star amongst Mexican boxers, but Mungia's kind of got that people's champ vibe where, you know, a lot of these guys, these fans come to see this destroyer from Tijuana mow somebody down an entertaining fight. I just think that was the better fight.

We can both, you know, for the purposes of clarity, we both want to see David Benevita. But that was apparently, but that's been off the table for for a while now. Jamal Charlo does nothing for me. It does nothing. Yes, he's still undefeated. Yes, he still has a middleweight title for reasons that pass understanding. Yes, he's got a name in American boxing. But to your point, he hasn't fought in forever. His first fight back was on an undercard. He didn't look all that good against a guy like Jose Benavides who backed him up. A blown up welterweight was backing him up in that fight. What the hell is Cannelli? Alvarez is going to do, a guy that lives to back his opponents up that has way more power than Jose Benavides. It's just a bad fight. It's a bad fight. It's going to be a tough fight to market. I just don't get it. I mean, Canelo can fight whoever he wants and make as much money as he wants. That's what he's earned at this stage of his career. But you make the list. Benevita is at the top. Mungia, Terence Crawford. They're in that mix.

Jamal Charlo, to me, is not on that mix. I just don't get it. I think he's, I think he, It's, I think if and when it gets formally announced, it's not going to be received very well at all. Well, I think the most, maybe the most unfortunate part of all this, Chris, is that you and I would have loved to have seen Canello versus Charlo a couple of years ago. That was one of the best fights you could have made for Canello. You know, Charlo was looking really good at 160 after being a champion at 154. I always thought he was the better Charlo between him and his twin brother. And, you know, he has this, he has the style to give Canello problems. but between the inactivity and he's older now

and again he didn't look so good in his last fight and again this is not Jamal Tarlow's fault but I think the number one reason that at least I don't want to see the fight and probably everyone else as well is we just saw his twin brother run around again for 12 rounds put zero effort in and of course they're different people but it just it takes a lot away from the fight

even though it's not Jamal's fault of course and what about the general public right cano is a star that casual is no. My friends who don't watch boxing, know who Canello is. How many of them and how many of the public at large are going to think this is a rematch? They're going to see Connollo Charlo. How do you tell those people, hey, this is not a runback of that really boring fight you just watched? There was always going to be my backlash to whatever, you know, opponent Conello shows that wasn't David Benavides because, you know, even some of the most casual fans kind of know Benavides at this point.

They kind of know that this is the next guy in line to fight canals. So there's always going to be some backlash. But if you did a fight with, say, Terrence Crawford, you could make the case that you've got number one pound for pound jumping up and wait to try his luck against the former number one pound for pound. It was still the biggest star in the sport. I think Crawford would have made a good fight out of it. He wouldn't have run. He would have made a good fight out of a Canella fight for as long as it would have lasted. Mungia, we already outlined the reasons why that would have been a good fight.

Look, I think the outcome of Canelo Mangia is that Mungia winds up like face planted after taking a big shot from Canello. But you can kind of see a lane for Mungia to win by kind of taking a page out of the Dmitry Bevo playbook, which is just overwhelmed Canela with punches and hope that your chin holds up. Look, I see shaking your head. I know. I get it. Like it's a very, very narrow lane. It is, you know, wafer thin, that kind of lane.

But there's a lane. It's a bicycle lane. It's a bicycle lane. Yes, at this point, though, I don't see that path for Jermal Charles. Maybe a couple of years ago when Charlo looked like a guy with good power, operated behind a good jab. But so much has happened to him over the last couple of years. And I have a lot of sympathy for it because seeing kind of his personal life devolve has been tough. His relationship with his brother is not the same.

He's just not that guy. He's not that guy. So look, best case scenario, he stands in fights, trades, gets knocked out with like a body. shot. Worst case scenario is he kind of stays behind that jab for 12 rounds and we're stuck with another 12 round decision for Canello against a charlo. Yeah, it's not an appetizing fight. It's hard to get excited about it and it's unfortunate because again, we're in a sport with very few stars. Canello is by far the biggest star. He is in the face of boxing. Sorry to any Jervante Davis fan that's listening to this, but there's no question about it. So when one of those two opportunities for those 12 months is

wasted on a fight that we're not excited about, that's always a disappointment. And it's not just disappointing for us, but it's bad for the sport as a whole. Now again, like you said, Canello can do whatever he wants. No one's dictating to him. But you're the betting expert, Chris. What does the line look like in your opinion on a Canelo Charlo fight? It's double digits. It's 10 to 1, 11 to 1.

And look, to be fair, it would have been 7 to 1, 8 to 1 maybe for Jaime Mungia. So he would have been a favorite against anybody. You know, he probably would be a favorite against David Benavides, but it would probably two to one if he's a favorite there. But this one, I think the odds are going to be really, really high. I think odds makers saw what Charlo looked like in his last fight. They saw how devastating, devastating is the wrong word, but Cannello looked good. Like he backed up Charlo and Charlo the only time he was standing in front of him, he took a big

shot and went down. I think they're going to be high, man. I think they're going to be high. And look, again, Canallo's legacy is securities. The first ballot Hall of Famer, the Undisputed Super Middleweight Champion. And he doesn't have to prove anything. I just think there was a better fight for him. And that fight was Jaime Mugia, which was right in front of him.

And there for the making. Last thing on this subject, does this tell you anything about what Canelo is going to do this year? Like, I mean, you talk the same team Benavita's people that I do. They seem to believe that it's happening in September. They believe that a Canelo Benavides fight is going to happen. At this point, I don't know. You know, Crawford's still going to be. out there. Maybe he's going to have some time on his hands end of the year.

You know, look, this opens the door and this is, I don't want to get into this now, but, you know, if Burlanga looks great in his fight against Patrick McGroy in a couple weeks, but no, like, let's say Mungia looks fantastic against Edgar Berlanga in, you know, June of this year. Like, the door could be open for him to step back in. Does this tell you anything about what Pinello is going to do in 2024? I don't know that it tells us much, Chris, and I've heard the same things you have heard that you mentioned, but look, I think Canola gets a bad rap. And I know it comes with the territory of being the top star in any sport.

But I don't believe any of this nonsense that Canelo is ducking David and Bavides or he's scared of Benavides. Because he's proven time and again that he's willing to fight tough guys that have far lessening than Benavides and carry much more risk, arguably, than Benavides. Dmitri Bival. No one was banging down the doors for Dmitri Bival. And in fact, he picked Bivel over Jamal-Tarlo. So he did that. He fought Austin Trout. He fought Arizona LAR.

I have a hard time believing. with the way Canelo is and who he is as a person and as a fighter, that he's going to let his career go by without fighting Benavitas. He knows that he would be really, that would follow him. That would be part of his legacy. And I don't see that happening. I would be pretty surprised, not Intel, just gut feeling if Canola doesn't fight Benavides in September. Yeah, I tend to agree with you because, again, he doesn't duck anybody.

You know, maybe he doesn't fight guys on the timetable that everyone would like. Gnadi Gailofkin is a good example of that, but he eventually gets them. He takes on the biggest challenges, and Benavides is that big challenge. Maybe it's an opportunity of Benavides to get one more big win going into a September showdown if he wants to get another fight in there. But, you know, I'm looking forward to a press tour because I would love to just understand Canello's thinking, right? Like, tell me what the rationale is behind this.

Tell me what went into this decision to face. a Jamal Charlo because as we sit here, Mike, I just don't get it. I don't get the fight overall. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I can think of, and I don't know this for sure, but I know, look, I know that Canello's three-fight deal with PBC, as I'm sure you know, as well, had included, you know, pre-approved names, and Jamal Charlo was one of them. And that was always the plan. The plan was actually to fight Jamal Charlo, as we know, in September, he pulls out,

Jamel Charlo steps in. So I'm sure that there was some arrangement. All right, I fight you first, then I'll fight you after. you know, maybe Canelo sees it as, all right, hey, look, he's one of the pre-approved names, and I can get an easy win and look dominant and get my money. I don't know. I can't get inside his head. But you're right.

There's no, it's hard to get excited about this fight. Even if Charlo talks his best game, it's still hard to get excited about it. But one last thing for me, on the Benavita stuff, I don't buy it. Benevita is some big favorite against Canello. I would still pick Canelo in that fight. And I'm not making them a prohibitive favor, like you said. you said maybe you'd be two to one or actually you didn't say that but

yeah yeah look Benavitas I think as a style that's not I'm not going to say Taylor made for Canelo but it's certainly this kind of style Canelo likes he's going to say right in front of you he's going to be wide open for counter shots he's not going to have to go finds him Cano can lay on the ropes and he's an incredible

counter puncher so can Benavitas be Canello sure but I don't think that Canola is looking at this being like oh my God there's just no way I can win this fight no and you know i've said this often about canelo opponents it's one thing to fight a certain way to fight a volume punching way when you're fighting guys not named canelo it's another thing to do it when one of the best counterpunchers in boxing a guy with blurring speed to the head into the body is standing in front of you know maybe benavitas will do it but that first shot that comes back that's going to have them rethinking a lot only demetre bebel really has done that and

galate galovkin in the first couple of fights have been willing to trade with him everybody else gets a taste that power and they don't want any part of it. So look, how about just to finish this? Maybe we'll give Jamal Charles briefly the benefit of doubt and say he's going to defend the family on it. He is going to go out there and at the very least go out in his shield because that needs to have because Mike, if it looks like Charle 1, that's not good. That is not good for the legacy, so to speak.

I mean, could you imagine if Charles gets, if Charlo fight happens and he gets in there and it's like a carbon copy? I mean, somebody might, there might be tomatoes thrown in the ring. I don't know what's going to happen, but I would say even me personally as a media member, my tolerance is growing thin for these kind of fights after what we saw between Chacore and Ewan Daila Los Santos and Canelo and Charlo and Tiafima Lopez against Jameenna, against Jameen-L-Lose just last week. It's like, but again, I think, you know, I think those guys, not, not at Dalai

Sanos and Chorra, but Jameen Ortiz, to an extent he was boxing, not running. What Charlo was doing was running. And he did so after talking a tremendous. amount of trash, promising this, vowing that. And again, it's not Jamal Charles' fault, but unfortunately, when you're a twin brother, some of it falls on you. Okay. So my most frustrating ticket buying experiences often involved looking for tickets to see the late

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It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fans And so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of Tea Fima Lopez, who defended his titles this past weekend against Jemaine Ortiz, this was a particularly bad fight.

Like, you know, ESPN top rank should stop doing Thursday night fights because the last two have been atrocious. Yeah, Chikors Stevenson looked terrible his last time out. Yeah, Tea Fima Lopez looked terrible this time out. Some of that, a lot of that has to do with the opponents. Both those guys came in with game plans. that were not going to be fan-friendly. Jemaine Ortiz obviously went to school on what happened between Sando-Martin and Teofima Lopez

elected to move a lot more than we've seen Jemaine-Ortiz move in previous fights. Here's the question. What do we make of Teo Fimo-Lopez now? Because the Teofimo-Lopez ride is kind of a wild one, right? Like, he loses the Cambosis, his stock drops. He comes back, picks up a couple of wins, his stock starts to rise.

He fights Sandor Martine. Does he still have it? I don't know. Stock drops. Fights Josh Taylor. Stock goes all the way back up. He's 140-pound champion. He's the ring magazine champ.

We're talking about him back in big fights. We're talking about Terrence Crawford. And then here comes Jermaine Ortiz, where the flaws in Teofimo's game are once against it, get exposed. His inability to cut the ring off, which was a huge. huge problem against Sander Martin was once again a huge problem against Jemaine Ortiz.

And look, Teufimo's been around long enough that this should not be a problem for a fighter of his caliber and his accomplishment. So where are you on the Teofimo Lopez roller coaster? Are you up? Are you down? Are you the same as you were before the fight? Where do you stand? It's tough, Chris, for sure, because like you say, it's really concerning that. You fight San Antonio Martin and you struggle that badly and then you don't show even a smidge of improvement against the same style what 16 months 18 months later not even not not even not sorry it was less than that it was 14 months but either regardless you know Tfimo's blaming the other guy running this yeah you know what he wasn't standing there in

trading but guess what you could have done you could have cut the ring off you could have thrown some body shots you could have you know if the guy's moving to the guys moving to your right, try to throw some body shots to the right, double up on the jab, triple up on the jab, and use angles. And instead, T. Femmo strategy, if you could say it was one, seem to be to just plow forward and wildly throw headshots from five feet out of range. I thought he lost the fight. I don't have a problem with him winning 115, 113, I had, I was ringside and I had a 1513 for Jameen Ortiz, but that seems to be the range to me, 115, 1113, either way to a draw. But yeah, the most concerned anything is, is Tio didn't say to himself, you know what? This guy's a pretty good jab

and he's a pretty good boxer. Well, let me, uh, let me work on cutting off the ring. And that really goes back to Tfimo's dad being his trainer, I think. I'm not a big proponent of dads being trainers. It does work sometimes working for Devin and Bill. But I think overall, it's tough for, you know, your dads are not classically trained and, you know, it's hard for you to tell your dad that he doesn't, you know, he's doing the wrong thing. But, um, yeah, I'll be getting to the point. And now it's almost at the point out where you have to have Tio and throw him in with Superio Matisse. Yeah, so, well, let's dig into that for a minute on his dad. You know, his dad is the guy that came up with the game plan to beat Vasilio Lomachenko,

you know, when that was widely viewed as a fight Loma was going to win. His dad also has helped him bounce back in that win over Josh Taylor. So we'll give credit to his dad for doing that. His dad does have some training chops. Where he's different from, where I think he's different from the Haney's is that Bill Haney always welcomes outside voices, right? Like Bill Haney, you know, is fine with Devin going off and spending a couple of days to a week training somewhere else.

Bill Haney is the guy that brought Ben Davison into the camp. And Ben is still around, not day. day like he used to, but he is still around and providing insight to the Haney's. Bill Haney, he knows what he doesn't know and he's open to learning more as a trainer. I don't get that sense with the Lopez's. Like it's kind of an us against the world mentality that they have there. And Teofimo's kind of talked about this. Like one of the things he's most proud of is that he didn't fire his dad when people were calling for him to fire his dad. And I do think that's admirable, but I think you can split the baby a little bit. I think you can keep

Teafimo Sr. on as head trainer, but I also think you've got to bring in outside voices that can show you things. Like obviously, he can't cut the ring off. Obviously, that's a problem. You know, I heard him say he gave himself a 10 out of a 10 for his last performance. No, that's, that's wrong. You followed this guy around too much. There is an art to cutting the ring off. Gannadi Golofkin is good at it. Terrence Crawford is good at it. It's a skill. bring in people that can teach that skill that are better. You're not trying to replace your father necessarily, but you're trying to bring more information into it.

We have seen Devin Haney grow into a pound-for-pound talent over the last couple of years, continue to win big fights. Look, maybe Regis Program was never going to win that last fight against Haney, but how basic Haney made Regis look was really impressive. And he did that because he had a strategy, he had a game plan, and it worked. To me, sometimes Teafimo is looking too, just looking way too much for that one big fight-changing shot.

And that's not how you're going to win these high little fights. So my advice, not that he'd ever take it, to Teofima Lopez, is to adopt a Haney approach. Keep your dad on, head trainer, but bring in these outside guys, bring in these outside voice to be part of your camp, to work your corner, to be there as a sounding board for your dad. someone like, you know, I think they had,

Joey Gamash was there for a while, like bring him back into that mix. Another good, good boxing mind. Like, and by the way, Joey Gamash was, I think he was there for the Lomachenko fight, right? Like, he was part of putting together that game plan. Just bringing these outside voices and,

and keep the information flow going. I think there's a lack of, of, just a lack of positive voices in the corner, in the camps for Daveyma Lopez, and I think that's costing him. Yeah, I was going to say, look, I agree with you that you have to give Tio's dad credit, obviously. His son is one of the best fighters in the world, and he's brought him a long way.

But I think you're maybe giving him too much credit because Jody Gamash was in that corner for the Lomachenko fight. And then he was in the corner for the Cambos's fight. So I think, yeah, at the very least, you know, Tio's going to have to bring in an outside voice. I'm not saying he has to fire his dad or no one, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. But look, I'm not going to write Tio off. I think he's, like, still 25 years old. And he's incredibly talented. He's very athletic.

He always comes in shape. There are a lot of things to like about him. He's creative in the ring. You saw that creativity against Josh Taylor, right? He put on a show there. That's why he calls himself to showman. And that was not a show on Thursday. At least, you know, it's funny, right?

Because you always hear about Thursday night football at the NFL, but they have a reason for it where they're a couple of days off of rest. I don't know what the excuse is for boxing. But, you know, I caught up with Tio after the fight when he cooled down a little bit. And he was, you know, I think he was more honest. in that moment. So when I said to him, I said, what do you need to do differently? He said, look, I probably should have been doubling up and tripling up on the jab.

So he knows that. And then, but then he went into, he said, basically like, look, he goes, why did I come back? You know, I think he just come back, meaning he was retired, whatever. But he said, why did I come back for this to fight guys that don't want to fight? And it does say, you know what, this was a voluntary defense. If you know, TIFMO, you know, maybe has this issue, why make that fight if you, you know, if you're the promoter and you have all these guys. on staff to try to identify

these sort of issues. That would be my question. I think Tio does have a point there. Well, I mean, yes, in hindsight, though I don't know that anyone expected Jemaine Ortiz to fight that way. Right? Like, he didn't fight that way against Lomaceko. He fought a much more aggressive style, and I think you had to expect

that was going to be coming in, that was going to be the style that Ortiz employed. And look, I don't blame Ortiz for fighting that way. Like, he probably wasn't going to come close to winning a fight that people wanted him to fight. But this fight, he was at least competitive, at least to my eyes. I thought he won that fight.

But I, again, like you, 115, 113, either way, would have been fine. 17-11, I think it's a bad scorecard. But I just, I don't blame Ortiz for fighting that way. But if you're Lopez, like, you've seen Sandra Martine now do this. You've seen Jermaine Ortiz now do this. Another guy's going to do it. Now, maybe it's not Superiel Matias, who is not built that way. But if you're a non-puncher and you have an opportunity to fight Teufuma Lopez, why wouldn't you take advantage of his inability to track you down?

Like you see what Ortiz did well. You go to school on that and say, look, let's land some more consequential punches. Stay in the pocket a little more often when you get cornered. You know, try to make it easy for the judge to give you more of these rounds. This is going to become the way Teofimo gets boxed. So he's going to have to figure out how to handle it. And maybe that involves bringing in more people. Yeah, I mean, look, I have no issue whatsoever like you,

Jermaine Ortiz's style, right? I don't call out running. But what I do have an issue with is if you're Jermaine Ortiz, you already faded down the streets against Lomachenko, right? The biggest opportunity of your life, you get a second bite of the apple, and then you get swept on all three scorecards, the final three rounds.

If he had won one round on two of those cards, he would have pulled out a draw. So look, what you're doing is effective in there. But like you said, stay in the pocket a little bit. Make him pay because Tio made a lot of mistakes. He was really reaching in there. He was reaching wide open for an uppercut, I think, wide open for counter shots. If you're Tiofino, you have to look at it now and be like, can I really, if he's honest with himself,

can I really beat Devin Haney with Devin Haney's style and how good he is with the way I'm fighting now? So that's, I think he comes down to for Tio is, is there accountability on his team and with himself? Is there an adult in the room, pulled to you aside and say, look, you're an incredible fighter, you're an incredible talent, but you have things to work on, like any fighter. Yeah, based on that performance, I would make Devin Haney a big, big favorite in a fight against Teufima right now. Speaking of Devin Haney, we are set to have Devin Haney up against Ryan Garcia, April 20th. Huge fight. And credit to both these guys for making this fight happen as quickly as they did. you know, for the last couple of weeks, it really has seemed like it was Ryan focused on

Raleigh-Romero. We didn't know where Devin was going to go. But after Roli signed that deal to fight East side, Cruz, Ryan, Golden Boy pivoted. And by all accounts, this came together relatively quickly, which for two guys with big egos and big expectations financially, that's not nothing, like that these guys were able to come together and make this fight happen. We've already seen a little bit of spice, some manufactured spice, we'll call it that, radio row of all places where they confront each other,

a little pushing, little shoving, Bill Haney gets involved. But these are two guys, Mike, that are very familiar with each other. I've fought six times in the amateurs. I'm still going to have to go back and check the record there, but they say it's three and three, so we'll call it. We'll go with what they say on that one. In the pros, though, it's a different story. Devin Haney right now is peaking as a fighter.

He is, in my mind, a top five. Pound for pound talent, at the very least, a top 10 pound for pound talent. Ryan Garcia, look, he's coming off a knockout win over Oscar Duarte, but there were questions about how he performed in that fight. There are certainly going to be questions about his ability to box with one of the best boxers in the world right now. So right now, as we record this in mid-February, is this a competitive fight? I mean, it's hard for me to see being real competitive.

Let's be honest. I would love to be wrong and I'll say that maybe I'm overcorrecting because I am one of the people that picked Ryan Garcia to beat Jervantes Davis so I'll own that

and I thought Ryan had some moments in that fight I thought he heard stunned Jervantes in round two but I think what concerns me more than anything is the way he looked against Oscar Jwartes. What was that shoulder role?

I don't know what you'd call that he was turning his back to him and I thought Ryan was losing a lot of rounds I don't think you and I saw it eye and you were ringside I wasn't but I thought Ryan was losing rounds in that fight. Juarte is a B-level fighter, solid guy,

and full, you know, fair credit to Ryan. You know, he knocked him out and did it cleanly. I think Ryan and Amir Khan are very similar archetypes. You know, these are two guys that are athletic punchers with great hand speed. And Ryan Garcia has a long way to go to accomplish what Amir Khan has, even. But, you know, that's right. If you're Ryan Garcia and you're going to beat Devin Haney, you're going to do it with your athleticism,

your speed and your power. And does he have the speed and the power and he athleticism with the boxing skills to actually land on Haney, right? That's the question. Yeah. Look, I would make Devin a favorite too going in. The case I would, I'd make Devin the favorite.

Just a favorite. A pretty big favorite right now. I'm going to make the case, though. You can tell me what you think of this. I'm going to make a case for Ryan Garcia here. Two things that Ryan will have going for him in this fight. One is that familiarity, right? Like, even though it was the amateurs, six times is a pretty decent amount of times to fight each other. So you, you kind

of know what you're getting into with Devin Haney. The other is the lack of power from Haney. You know, against Tank Davis, Ryan had to be wary of the power. Even though Oscar D'Warte was a 135 coming up, I think Ryan had to be really wary of the power of DeWarte. He was riding an 11-fight knockout streak. She couldn't just come in and throw whatever you wanted to throw. I don't think you have to be as aware of that power with Devin. Yes, he knocked Regis Pro Gray down in the last fight and certainly looked a lot stronger at 140 than he did at 135.

But I think Ryan's going to come into this fight, knowing what he's getting into with Devin and knowing that even if Devin hits him clean, it's not the kind of power that can knock him out. And that can have a positive impact on a fighter. It can make you fight a little bit freer in the ring. And that's what Ryan's going to have to do. He's going to have to fight loose. He's going to have to be, you know, not hands dropped, all that stuff, but he's going to have to be looking to time, Devin, you know, looking to land that left hook. He's also, Mike, going to have to have a plan B.

Like, that's a big thing for me in this fight. Like, Devin and Bill are excellent at taking away your plan A. So that left hook, don't count on a B in there because Devin's going to have a game plan to take that left hook away from me. You've got to have a plan B, whether it's a right hand. body shots, whatever it may be, because that left hook to the head is not going to be your knockout punch. It's just not. So, you know, I think he's got some work to do. And he and Derek James have some work to do. And the first is going to be, to your point, throw that shoulder roll in the waist basket it belongs in. But I think the familiarity, the lack of power, I think those are

reasons to believe that Ryan can win this fight. Yeah, I think those are valid reasons. And look, When I say, you know, Devin's a big favor. I'm not saying he's a 10 to one favorite or anything like that. Yeah. But it's certainly not going to be the upset of the year or anything if Ryan wins. And it's not even about Ryan's ability. It's more about how good Devin Haney looks. You know, Devin Haney looks like a guy that could be the face of boxing for the next 10 years

if everything goes according to plan. So this is no knock on Ryan Garcia. I think the fact is that no one sees Ryan Garcia out pointing Devin Haney. That's very hard to see. So is he going to, you know, is he going to knock him out? Like you said, he's going to have to change things. up. He's going to have to be doubling up to the body. And I think I spoke to Oscar on Friday night. He made a good point too. Ryan has to fight tall. I'll fight tall against Devin Haney. You've got to

use your hand speed and you have to use your power. Those are your advantages, right? Arguably. Certainly power. Yeah. And timing him too. Like, you know, like Devin's a tough guy at a time. But we've seen in the past, Devin can be hit. He wasn't hit by Pro Gray. And that was in part because it was an excellent game plan going into that fight. But Devin can be hit, and he has not been hit by someone with the power of Ryan Garcia, at least not yet. So that's a reason if you want to be optimistic about Ryan's chances to look that direction. I will give Devin, Devin is dad, a ton of credit for how they're navigating his career.

Like, they have done a ridiculous job with him. Like, he is not only talking to talk, but he's walking the walk, right? He is moving around between promoters. He's now going to be working primarily with Golden Boy. for this fight. He's making stuff happen, man. And that's, I think, you know, Devin should be the archetype for every young fighter that's coming up. Don't tie yourself down to a long-term contract. Don't accept that you can't get these fights because of promotional and network issues. You know, be your own boss and, you know, bet on yourself more often than not, because Devin

Haney is proof that it can work. He's making, he's made a ton of money over the last couple of years, made a ton of money in that first deal with Matrum, made a ton of money in Australia, made a ton of money against Lomachenko. I mean, a ton of money his last fight, and it's probably going to make a ton of money in this fight with Haney or with Ryan, because I think it's going to do pretty well on pay-per-view. I don't think it's going to do a million buys, but I think you can see it going 400,000, buys because I think it's going to be a good build-up, and there's a lot of interest in these two guys. Yeah, and look, 400, 500 and today's landscape is a really big number.

There's not many fights that can do that whatsoever. I give Devin Haney and Bill all the credit, like you said, there's no stay busy fights. There's no tune-ups. there's no years where he's not fighting twice, at least twice in a year. That's really important. We're always talking about Devin Haney now. And it seems like his fights always seem to take place in the right place too, right? Whether it's Las Vegas for this one, which I think this is a Vegas fight, certainly.

The Bay Area in December, he had a great turnout out there. He's really active on social media. People, a lot of the fighters seem to not get along with Bill. But I think even those guys will give Bill a lot of credit. Bill knows what he's doing in terms of keeping Devin's name out there, creating hype and creating buzz on social media. So I think Devin Haney, you know, he's not a big star yet, but there's no doubt he's on his way.

And this is how you get there. Yeah, you get there by taking big fights every single chance. And look, to your point about two-up fights, I don't know why any fighters want these low-level fights. Like, your training camps are still hard. You're still going through two-month training camps in wars in the gym. Like, why would you want to go through that and then take a shitty fight? I don't understand anyone that thinks that.

Devin clearly doesn't want to waste his time with easy fights, give me fights. A couple things before you go. The situation with Connor Ben and Jervante Davis is fascinating, right? Like, you know, I talked about this with Keith Ideck last week, and, you know, we didn't believe that this was ever going to come to fruition. Now we have, you know, Giovante getting an offer from Eddie Hearn that Connor says is worth at least $10 million, maybe $15 million, before. for all that pay-per-view upside, if there is pay-per-view upside.

I don't know what Jervante wants, right? I don't know what he's looking for. I don't know if this is all just kind of a game to mess with Eddie. It was a game to mess with Connor. But do you think there's any possibility right now that we see Jervante against Connor, Ben? I mean, I always have a hard time believing when it comes to these public Eddie Hearn offers. Has there been one public Eddie Hearn offer over the last five years that's actually

come to fruition that we can think of where I'm talking about. Eddie Hearn goes on, goes publicly, makes the office. offer. We know what the dollar amount is, and then we actually hear like a week later or two, the fight is happening. I don't know. Um, I also haven't seen Jervante Davis show any willingness to fight outside of the PBC universe. So I have a hard time believing that Eddie Hearn is going to just all of a sudden make a fight for Javante to fake Conor Ben. Not to mention, you know, yeah, you're mentioning good money, 10 and 15 million, but Javentz made like, what, 40 million for the fight with Ryan Garcia, something crazy like that. So again, is he going to be

realistic and is he going to really is he even going to want that it's going to go to 147 i mean connor bent looks pretty he didn't look you know he hasn't looked his normal self how he hasn't been there his last two fights and therefore guys are calling him out i don't know that we're seeing it yeah but and this kind of blends into something we talked about earlier and something i was going to bring back what is the fight for gervante there there is no 40 million fight out there for him right now There was some reporting that he might be fighting over the UK in his next fight, which would fly in the face of everything Gervantes done up until this point, which is build himself as a major gate attraction at virtually every major city in the U.S. I don't know what he'd be looking for, right? Like if I'm Gervante, and I feel comfortable going to 147, which is a big jump, like the guy's a small 135.

Going to 147 is a lot. Connor Ben might be the fight. I do it. I mean, Connor has not looked strong in his last couple of fights. If Connor gets clear of this UK issue fighting over in the UK, it's a big fight over there. I mean, people, I've heard people talk about Vegas, US. No, no, not. Do it over there and make a whole bunch of money fighting Connor Ben and be the first to stop him,

be the first to beat him because I think it's probably coming. Like, you know, if Connor fights these elite fights, he hasn't looked in his last couple like someone that would win them. So I can see the interest that Gervante would have. I just don't know what his interest is otherwise. Like, I don't know what PBC's looking to do with him. Like, we're now into mid-February. There was no announcement for Givante's next fight.

He last fought, you know, this past April. I don't know what he's looking for. I don't know what he, what kind of big fight is out there from to potentially take. I think there's also still legal issues, right, tied to him because I remember he was saying on social media back in December that he couldn't travel. Yeah. So, you know, he was on probation. He's been on probation. I don't know the terms of that and everything.

I don't know that that's limiting in terms of him being able to train and all of that. But if you're talking about the BBC universe, I mean, it's not a big fight, but Frank Martin would seem to be the only valuable guy that would be out there, right? Frank Martin turned down a career high payday to fight, of course, Stevenson. And what has he done since then? Nothing. He's posted a lot of videos from training on Instagram, which is great and all. Could see his thing in shape, but I still don't understand what happened there.

So I guess maybe him and Girante would make some sense. That's a good fight. I think it's, look, Javante's going to do pay-per-view numbers at a certain level no matter who he fights. He is a legitimate pay-per-view attraction. That's just, it's a lower-scale paper-view. It probably does fewer pay-per-views than Raleigh-Romero did because Roli sold the fight. Roli was a goofball during the build-up to that fight.

Frank Martin's not that guy. You know, Frank Martin is probably going to be, he might be, a little more disrespectful than Jaime Mungia would against Canello, but he's not going to get in his face in the same way Rother Romero got in his face. I don't know. I mean, I'm skeptical to Connor Ben's stuff too, but it makes some sense for Javante Davis if he wants to try some little bit different and jump up in weight. And again, the weight is real.

He's a small 135. Going up to 147 is a lot, but Connor Ben, it's kind of a small 147, like not a big guy himself. So that would make that fight interesting as well. Mike, good stuff, man. Always appreciate you stopping by the show and follow Mike on Twitter at Mike Coppinger and read his stuff over at ESPN. Good to talk to you, man. All right. Thanks for having me, Chris.

That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Mike Coppinger for joining the show, as always. Subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Michael and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

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