The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Will Anyone Watch Terence Crawford?

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Chris is joined by the great boxing writer, Jake Donovan to talk about what's next for Estrada-Chocolatito, how likely is it Crawford-Spence can be rekindled, and does Tank leaving Mayweather mean anything. Later Teofimo stops by to talk about his upcoming fight. #Volume #ColinCowherd #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. at home this week, no road trips this week, but I will, I think, make my way to New York for the Teofima Lopez-Mortez-Martine fight this weekend, pop in on Saturday. That should be a good one on ESPN. We've got some stuff over in the UK, Josh Warrington, back in action, but there's a lot going

on in the business of boxing as well. To talk about that and much more, I want to bring in a guy I just saw this past weekend in Arizona. Jake Donovan, senior writer over at Boxing. boxing scene.com. He was in Glendale, Arizona for Chocolate Tito, Estrada, Part 3, which was interesting for a lot of different reasons. Jake, how you doing, man? I'm doing good, Chris. Yeah, I feel like it's been a few days since I last saw you. All right. Let's start with last weekend. Romon Gonzalez, Juan Francisco Estrada, they fight for the third time. You know,

for the second fight in a row, it was ultra competitive. The first fight was competitive, but that was a pretty clear win for Chocolatito back in 2012. He was the more experienced fighter Estrada coming down and wait. But for the last like 24 rounds, you've got 23 of them probably that could have gone either way. The judges sought for Juan Francisco Estrada. How did you see that fight? I had it ever saw.

I had it 115, 113 for Gallo Estrada. I'm perfectly fine if the fight was a drug, which I believe you had it if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if Chocolatito deserved to win. his team was pretty adamant. I don't know if you caught that in the hotel lobby. Like a few of them were like, staring me down hard when I said, I'm like, yeah, I had a guy you're winning by two.

They're like, what do you mean by that? I'm like, it was that close to the fight. But I would have been fine with the draw and part four. It seems like a lot of us were like, you know, it took a little bit to get going. Once it got gone, it's like, okay, this is the rivalry. We've remembered for the past 10 years. And I certainly wouldn't mind seeing 12 or less more rounds.

Yeah, you can't be upset at the decision when, I mean, look, they gave away the first. half of the fight or most of it anyway. You know, I had the benefit of listening in on the corner and you could hear Marcos Caballero, his trainer, you know, telling him through the fifth round, like, what's that old line? You're blowing it, baby. You're blowing it. Like, you know.

The Angelo Dundee line. Like, they gave it away in the first part of that fight. Look, Chocolate Tito is pretty well known to be something of a slow starter. he oftentimes takes that first round off to figure up how a guy's going to fight him and adjust accordingly. He lost the first two rounds, the first two first rounds against Estrada in the previous fights. But this was different. This was like kind of an old car on a winter's day, you know, kind of getting started there. Like once it did get started in like that sixth round, he was great.

Like I thought he won rounds six through 10, you know, those middle rounds. And then the last two were kind of coin flippy. but I split them. I gave Chocolatio the 11th. I gave Estrada the 12th. I had a draw. I think if you go back and I went back and rewatched the 11th round of that fight,

because if Dennis O'Connell, one of the judges, had scored that round for Gonzalez, we would have had a majority draw because of the way his scorecard shook out. I thought O'Connell actually was right. I thought Estrada deserved that 11th round. I would have flipped it on my own card there.

So I don't think that the Gonzalez team had much of a like to stand on. And even going in the corner to do an on-camera interview with Caballero, you know, he was pretty clear. He's like, we're going to get it going at some point, but we didn't get it going. We're not getting it going right now. I mean, that to me, Jake, was the story of this fight that for whatever reason, whether it's a credit to Estrada for what he was doing or something Chocolatito was not doing, he just couldn't get it going early on. Yeah, no, I agree 100%. And Gail, he made a point to mention that. He, as hard as he worked in that second fight, he still got outworked by Chocolate Tito.

I think Chocolatito threw like 100 more punches in that second fight. They set the copy box record. This one, he made a point to say that he was training in the mountains. He didn't want Chocolatito to outwork him. He didn't, but it was weird. It was like they both, we saw that work late declined significantly, but it worked to Gaios's advantage. He took advantage of the stuff that Chocolatito gave him early.

I found it interesting, though, that he did start to fade once, you know, Chocolate Tito came on. But I also wonder, too, like if he had to go full throttle, like if Chocolatito could have kept up. But I don't know if he was holding anything in reserve or he knew he was doing just enough to win. But it felt like it was mission accomplished on his part. But it was interesting to see them both slow down.

But I'm with you. It was like for the first six rounds, it's like, man, it would he really? It was like, is this the end of the Chocolatito? Like, did he just get old overnight? Not overnight, but you know, over the past year, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I was talking to Sergio more about this. If like, if that fight had been the reverse where Chocolatito started fast and faded late, you'd say, all right, maybe he's done.

Maybe it's time for the 35-year-year-old. to retire, but he picked it up late and, you know, showed, you know, great prowess in the later round, so, you know, you never know. But, you know, after the fight, Gairo Estrada was like, I'll do a fourth fight. In fact, he was like basically asking for a fourth fight against Gonzalez. Do we need a fourth fight right now between Estrada and Chuck Letitado? I would say if Estrada has no other option. He was pretty adamant. You know, he had to give up two belts to get to this third fight. He had to give up the WBC belt, which he held since he beat so wrong with saying the rematch. He had to give up the WBA belt.

that he won from Chocolate Tito, regardless of how you had that decision. He said, you know, once I get this belt back, I want to get all the belts. So there is a straight shot. You interview Joshua Franco after the fight. He's going to Tokyo to fight Kazuayoka. The WBA and WBO belts are on the line. I know for fact, Joshua Franco absolutely wants to fight all those guys. Bam knows this because he was willing to let Joshua fight Gaio and Chocolateo ahead of him.

He's even given up, you know, the belt that was at stake last weekend. So if Joshua Franco wins, the matter is then can Mr. Honda, can, convince Juno Nakatani, who's going to be owed the winner because of the WBO mandatory, get him to maybe stand down. Then Estrada can go unify three belts and then convince, okay, well, Chocolotito can go in, maybe get that fourth fight that way, if Estrada, you know, prevails and all that. So I think if, if Strata, I don't know if he's going to get Fernando Martinez. I know he has his own mandatory with the IBF. He's kind of on the PBC side. Maybe they deliver him. You know, who knows. But if he doesn't get that winner, then, yeah,

we could see a fourth fight. And also, too, if Choclatito wants to continue, you have to think about what his next options are. So, you know, if it's best business for both and them without, you know, stretching too far, why not do it again? Yeah. Look, I understand why Estrada wants that fourth fight. It represents the biggest payday is going to get. And when you're in those smaller weight classes, kind of what's been going on in boxing lately where you can make a lot of money to fight nobody's in the upper weight class, that doesn't really exist in the smaller weight classes. To make the most money, you've got to take the most substantial fights and I'm sure Estrada is looking at his bank account going, we do it again.

I'm going to make a significant amount of money, probably more than I made for this fight. As a fan and a watcher of boxing, I don't know if I want to see it next. I wouldn't mind seeing Estrada go on to potentially face the winner of that Iyoka versus Joshua Franco fight. That's a pretty compelling fight. You could do that in the U.S., especially if it's Franco. Maybe it'll do it in Japan. If it's Ioka, there's a lot of places and a lot of money to be made if you do.

a fight like that. And for Chocolatito, you know, he said something to me in the ring that struck me. And then the next morning, a couple members of his team brought this up again. Right now, Roman Gonzalez isn't really interested in legacy. Like he feels like his legacy is secure. And he's right. He's one of the greatest little men of all time. He's a first ballot hall of fame, and no matter what happens the rest of his career. The only thing that is concerning Gonzalez right now is his bank account. So he'll be back if you give him high six figures to fight somebody, whether it is Joshua Franco in the U.S., Ioka in the U.K., or even Estrada. I think he'd fight Estrada again if the money was right.

But Chocolatito ain't going out there and fighting Fernando Martinez for a couple hundred grand. Like that's not going to happen. Like at this stage of his career, from what I can gather from his people, he has no interest in doing that. So I don't think we've seen the last of Chocolate Tito, Jake, but somebody's going to have to come along with a big purse to get him back in the ring. He might only fight one time next year because the money just isn't to his liking. In fact, I don't know, you probably know this. I don't know what the exact purses were for this fight for both those guys.

But I can tell you, there was some grumbling going on within Gonzalez's team, but how much money they were making. They wanted even more than what they made for this fight. So I get the sense that he's going to wait this out and wait for some kind of mega offer from somebody to get him back in the ring. Yeah, and that was the whole thing with why Estrada even gave up his belts. He didn't want to, you know, settle for. Obviously, it was a low purse bit by Golden Boy. They were going to try to make it up to him, but it just wasn't worth his while.

So he was willing to wait out the Chocolatio. And Chocolatito said the same thing. Like he wants, you know, the fights that are going to, you know, get him out of bed in the morning, I guess, so to speak. I keep thinking, there's one fight that kind of interests me for Chocolatito. if he can't get the fourth fight with Estrada. Why not a third fight with Sorongvisa? Because I think Sorongvichai is a little bit past it. Avenged that, you know, that's the only one out of the series that he hasn't beaten.

He's 0 and 2 against him. Estrada is the only one who's beaten everyone in that Fab 4. So, you know, if Chocolatito needs like a time marking fight, I think that's a safe one. Because I feel like once these guys venture out of that Fab 4, you kind of, you're going to see, I think they're all a bit past prime. Estrada is probably the only one left that has some of his prime left. I do believe, like, Chocolatito, he's in the Twilight. light. And, you know, I know he's not going to fight Van Rodriguez probably ever. They're very

close. But like if he fought, you know, one of those young guns, they're going to pick him off, you know. He had the perfect style to, you know, put, you know, we saw Julio Cesar Martinez in that mess of a co-feature. He's not, you know, stylistically the most pretty, you know, the prettiest fighter, you know, so Tocleto was able to exploit that when he was supposed to fight Estrada early this year. But I feel like once, you know, if he has to fight any of these young contenders, even an Andrew Maloney type, I'm not sure he survives. And that's, like you said, it wouldn't damage his legacy. We'd both vote him into the Hall of Fame right now, if we could. But I just don't, not even fighting like someone like Juno and Nakatani.

I think stick within that Fab 4. If Sorongvisa has anything left in his career, why not try to avenge those defeats? Yeah, that could be a marketable fight. I think you'd like to see Soronga beside get back out against somebody and get a win. I don't know if you could make that fight with Chocolatito coming off. The Bam Rodriguez is just demolition. It just wouldn't be as marketable. If he comes back, knock somebody out, all of a sudden you might be able to make a fight like that happen at this point.

One more thing from this card. You and I were talking about young fighters basically during the broadcast at times. I kept walking over to you and Cliff Roll over there on Press Road to discuss certain things. Diego Pacheco, real deal, man. Like, real deal, this kid. Like Eddie Hearn, and I've done a lot of matchroom shows,

obviously, with the zone. You know, top rank's got a lot of guys that are hitting. They've got probably the best young, they do have the best young stable in boxing. But I think Eddie Hearn found something here in DeVern. Diego Pacheco. Diego Pacheco, four wins in 2022, caps it off with a knockout win over Adrian Luna, who thankfully is cornered through in the top.

Whatever that referee was, was about to let that fight continue in that moment. And Luna would have gotten killed. But Pacheco is 21 years old, and he is showing bone crushing power. Now, you got to see him against better opposition. That's coming, I think, next year, maybe beginning in his next fight. But I look at this kid as top three, top five. prospect of the year and someone that I think can be a real contender at 168. What do you think when you see Diego Pacheco?

I'm with you 100% on that. And it seems like Matrum and Papa Jose, they're all on that same page. Jose Sr., he even said, like, he wasn't dismissing Luna, but I think he kind of saw what was coming just because of the developing he's seen in Diego Pacheco. But he said, you know, we're going to step it up in 2020. He wants to get to that point where fighting like legitimate 10-round fighter is guys that, you know, maybe can stretch him a little bit and test them out. Eddie said maybe two more fights.

I think they're going to plan to take him in the UK in the first quarter of 2023. And then he wants to get him to that tender level. Yeah, they're very excited about him and so am I. I'd like to pick him as prospect of the year. I think he's right there in the mix. The only exception would be like if you consider Frank Martin, if he's still a prospect or maybe if he beats Michelle Rivera, he's a contender.

But I mean, like I said, the fact that Diego Pacheco is right at the top of that class right now. Yeah, 2023, he's a contender on the rise. to me he's a can't miss star. You know, a lot of people want to criticize Eddie for not being able to build fighters in the U.S., but you look at him, I think he has a lot more upside than someone like Austin Williams, who was also on the undercard,

but that's a guy that you could build into a big U.S. store. Yeah, I agree. You know, from Southern California, so I know Match Room doesn't do a lot of Southern California shows, but they could start, you know, next year with Pacheco in some of those fights. I agree, like, you know, Ammo Williams, Didn't look great on the prelims, but I think he's got potential.

He's going to face Felix Cash, I guess, next year. Mark Castro, a long way to go with him. He looks okay. But I think Pacheco is starting to separate himself from those young guys in that Eddie Hearn stable. All right. Also last Saturday, we had Tyson Fury in an extended sparring session with Derek Chasora, which is what we expected.

Nobody expected Derek Chasora to do anything. I never really had a problem with this fight, Jake, because Fury wanted to get out. He couldn't get Joshua. He couldn't get Usik. I mean, would people have been happier if he faced Auto Valene in a rematch? I mean, I don't think so. I mean, it wouldn't have sold as well as I'm sure Derek Chisora sold because Chisora is still a reasonable name in the UK and is coming off a difficult win, but a win nonetheless

against Kubraat Pulev. So I don't want to get into that fight. That went exactly as I thought it was going to go. But now we turn the page to 2023 with Fury and Usik. Usik was there. I love that he was there. I think that helps kind of push that fight over the finish line. It sure sounds like they want to do the fight in Saudi Arabia or somewhere in the Middle East.

Give me a percentage right now. Like next fight for Tyson Fury, first half of next year, is it against Alexander Usik? I'm going to say this and I can kick myself in the butt for not. Of all the questions I asked Eddie this weekend, the one I didn't ask him about was if Hergovich is serious about fighting fit out. You know, he's the IVF mandatory. If, you know, they're going to use him as leverage or if he's really going to have it. To me, that's the wild card. If he pushes for that fight, then maybe it's a hiccup.

But I do like what Tyson Fury said before the fight, that if he fights Usook, he doesn't care about undisputed, he absolutely does not want to fight for the IBF title. He's not going to give him their money. He's still pissed off when they stripped him days after he fought Vladimir Klitschko. So that could be the out. Usuk maybe says, you know what, screw it. I'll let go of the IBIF belt instead of fighting Hergovich.

I'm going to throw it at 90%. I'm very optimistic we see that fight in 2020. Do you think the IBF would really get in the way of that? I mean, they make exceptions for unifications pretty often. And they're now starting to screw around with interim belts. I mean, this Boots Ennis fight for an interim belt, someone's got to explain that to me since technically, technically, Aeryl Spence is available.

Still not booked a fight yet. I feel like the IBF, you know, push comes to shove. They'll tell Hergevich to take a seat or fight on the undercar, or just something, you know, other than push, other than stripping to have Hergevich versus, I don't even know what the next man in line is it is it still jely jang at this point but they don't move guys around much in the ibif yeah i'm kind of with you that's what i i do wonder like i said if they're just kind of holding on to him as um as leverage at this point because i maybe hergovich is just never going to be ready

for a title shot so screw it why not fight usick now but it just i feel like i would like to see him once and twice more i feel like there's a deal to be made you know maybe they're just using hergovich you know take some step aside money and to me with this action about it seems like if both parties agree, that's when the sanctioned about his kind of step back and say, okay, well, now we'll allow this next one to happen. Yeah, I mean, Hergevich, I think he would have to fight someone like Martin Bacoli for an interim title, which is, I mean, that's, you know, he's not the mandatory if he fights Martin Bacoli in X, I'll tell you that.

But to me, like I said, that's the only thing that's going to hold it up. If Eddie is very, Eddie and, you know, the Saralan brothers, if they're serious about Hergovich fighting for that title, then Usoc would probably have to have a decision to make. If there's common, you know, they still haven't ordered a first bid yet. Eddie, you know, he said on the November 12th show, yes, the IBF ordered the fight and we asked for an immediate perspid. You know, we're at December 7th. There's still no perspid. So I think there's a deal to be made and we do get that. Whether it's undisputed or they just fight each other, who cares? It's still the true championship at that point. I'd love to see Herkovich in a rematch with Jayley Zhang. Like that was a good fight.

And like, I mean, it's not Eddie's show. It would be a top rank Queensberry show over in the UK, but in the Middle East. wherever it winds up, but you could certainly see like a Middle Eastern government be interested in the Chinese-born, Zhang and Hergevich in an undercard type of fight. That would be, that would be compelling to me. I don't know if Hergevich's team would want that because that was a fight he almost lost. But as far as compelling fights, probably the next one in line for for Philip Hercovich. All right, let's look ahead to this weekend where Terence Crawford is in action. We knew Terrence Crawford was going to fight, although it has been one of the most bizarre promotions that I've seen in recent memory, Jake, because every interview Crawford does,

like, if he mentions David Avanesian, it's in passing. Like, it's never a conversation about David Avanese. And it's entirely about why the Errol Spence fight isn't happening to the point where I was told, like, you know, Crawford was being told, like, don't do any more interviews this week. If, you know, if all they want to talk about is Errol Spence. It doesn't help the pay-per-view or the people putting up money for it to have Terence Crawford constantly talk about the fight that didn't happen. And for the perception to be disappointment that this is a fight against David Avanician.

So I guess I'll start here. Is this a remotely competitive fight? Avanicians won some fights in a row. Whenever he stepped up, whether he gets Lamont Peterson or others, he's not performed well. Is this a competitive fight? at this stage? I think it's more competitive than people are, people are just completely dismissive of David Abenation,

because they remember, like you said, they remember him from the Levant Peterson fight. They'll remember him getting cooked by, you know, Mean Machine. So he has the Six Fight win streak. It is kind of on that, you know, the domestic level of, you know, the European level. He knows he's in, not, he doesn't know he's in wear over his head. We kind of know he's in Bayover's head.

But I think he'll be competitive. We've seen Bud struggle with guys where he doesn't completely get up for, like, you know, Meme Machine even had him hurt. couple times. So he has those lapses and, you know, in fights like this. So I do expect Bud to eventually get him out of there. I don't, you know, Avenisian told me he's like, I'm absolutely going to knock this. This fight's going to end the knockout. I'm going to get my seventh knockout in a row. I agree with you, the fight's going to end the knockout. I don't think it'll be a complete mismatch from the opening bill. But I do think as the fight gets going,

Evanation is going to realize, okay, this is not Kerman Le Haraga. This is not Josh Kelly. You know, this is a real fight. And but, you know, he's, once he gets going, he's like a freight chain rolling downhill. You know, I love the idea of Avanician against Virgil Ortiz. When that was being discussed earlier this year, that made sense as a more competitive fight. I don't see this being, I just don't see it being competitive. But Avanician is an aggressive fighter.

And at some point, he's going to walk into something huge and something he didn't see coming and he's going to get dropped and he's going to get hurt and Buzz get win. I guess the only question. I have is, you know, Bud's been off for over a year. He's 35 years old. He was hurt, you know, a couple of fights ago against Agus Cabalascus. Is there anything, has he been diminished at all at this stage of his career? But if he's the Bud Crawford, we're used to seeing, and he claims he is, he doesn't have a ton of miles on his tires because of the way the last couple of years have gone. I just don't see Avincian being able to hang with him. I, I,

I mean, God, I don't, I generally don't weigh in on pay-per-view numbers or anything like that, but I mean, good luck with this one. Like, I just, the promotion has been such just an abject disaster. It just has. And if, if the ProGray Zepeda fight was a bad pay-to-view and, and I've been told it was pretty catastrophic, I don't know how much better this one is going to be because nobody, nobody's going into this fight believing it's going to be competitive. And as compelling as Bud Crawford is, like, you're just, you know, no one's paying 40. The money being a little bit lower is good. Like that's a positive for pay-per-view. I hope more people try that. But nobody's really paying for an appearance fee for a fight like this. I mean, it just, I just don't see it at this point.

So, I don't know. Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's just been such a bizarre promotion, like you said. And just the whole thing with like wanting transparency in the Errol Spence fight, but yet not getting any of it with, you know, the BLK prime people. It's like we still, you know, we know what we've read about those guys, but we're not getting any answers on that front. It's like, you know, Sam Kukovsky's kind of been the only, you know, I'm not even

to say face, you know, the only voice is the face. He is the face. He is the manager for Regis Progris now the front man for BLK Prime. And I like Sam. It's sort of just bizarre. Yeah. And he's usually the behind the scenes guy. You know, we both know, you know, he has a great relationship with the media.

But, you know, now it's the behind the scenes guy who's, you know, decided to take the lead because nobody else would. But yeah, it's just been a bizarre one. I know what? I don't, you know, the, you know, the, The blame game has been played for these last few weeks. I don't even know. Like, nobody really knows, like, who should be blamed for the failure of Spence Crawford.

I mean, Bud's got his fans and supporters. They back him to the hill. The Spence fans, they're jumping up and down on Bud and social media. He's obviously reading all of it because he's weighing in every, you know, 30 minutes on with some kind of counter argument. It's just been crazy to watch him do Instagram lives. And then the two of them are arguing for hedge funds on social media. It's like, it's a clinic on what not to do. after a fight kind of falls apart.

But I'll tell you this, I have never once blamed Bud Crawford for taking this fight. Like, if he really is guaranteed $10 million, and supposedly half of the money is already in his bank account, if he is guaranteed $10 million, who the hell wouldn't take that to fight David Abenesian? Like, obviously you care about exposure if you're Bud Crawford, but you put on ESPN for a long time.

You care about legacy and all that. But if someone's going to write a check for $10 million, to fight David Avenisian, you take it. You take it. And then you worry about the next fight after that fight is over. The problem with this, and this goes back to pro-Graza-Peda, too. Like, the problem is these people jumping into boxing with no coherent game plan. Like the Marv Nation, the people behind Marv Nation that put ProGraza-Pata together,

like people that were there told me there were like 5,000 fans in attendance. And as I said, the number for pay-per-view was awful. And now you have, and I don't know what they're going to, they want to pay in two and a half million bucks just for that fight alone to, to pro grand Zepeda. And now you have this event, which has got to be costing them, like for the main event alone, 10, 11 million dollars, depending on whatever Avanesians getting. And like, there's no, this is the boxing equivalent of lighting money on fire. Like, I just, and this is the problem. Like, when you have kind of these one-off newcomers coming into the game, because boxing has no barrier for entry, it just,

it kind of screws up things for, for other entities in the long term that are trying to build a sustainable business. And so it's good for, like, I can't blame Crawford one bit. I don't blame ProGray one bit. I don't blame Zepeda one bit. But these entities that are coming in

with no game plan whatsoever, it hurts the overall business of boxing. Yeah, no, I agree 100%. And that's always been, I mean, it's been the problem for years. It's like every time there's new money, the same people are always chasing. You know, we know the promoters, we know the managers.

They line their guys up right away. And then there's nothing left. It's like you pick all the meat off the bone. And then these guys, they have to know they're going to, you know, I think the BLK people know they're going to lose their shirt in this one. Like the theory was that if the show goes through, that that's the victory. And then it's on to Adrian Bruner, whatever they got planned for him in February, which I've heard some very interesting names for him.

I have to. Let's do that for a second. I don't know how comfortable. I'll throw some stuff that I've heard. I've heard Roli Romero in Adrian Bruner, which would be one of the wilder promotions you can have. Right. Because they're just yelling at each other forever.

And I've heard a little about Progray, but I mean, Adrian Broner does not want to get into the ring with Regis Progray. That is a bad, bad, bad idea. Yeah. So I was even telling them, it's like a Broner Roley fight has to happen. If there's any chance of Roley, whatever, if he doesn't have anything going on in BBC right now, that has to happen. I don't know if that's a name that's in the mix.

Ivan Redcatch's name keeps popping up, which I don't even know if they think they could even sell that. One name I've heard, and I was told he's a free agent now. Golden Boy is not confirmed this to me. Blair Cobbs. An agent Brona Blair Cobbs fight, that would be at least a fun promotion. I don't know what happened. I think it would even be a competitive fight.

You know. Yeah, that's actually, I haven't heard that name. Yeah. Blair at, it'd have you at 147, which is where Bruner. 147, yeah. Like, yeah. Right. Everything we've seen from him.

Yeah. Yeah. Like that's pretty good. You know, I'd probably favor Blair because he throws more punches, but Blair can also get caught. Yes. And Broner still gets. some deceptive speed, but although he hasn't

show much power at 147 and above. Yeah, I could sell that. I don't think Red Catch is sellable. I think Blair Cobbs is sellable to the boxing people. I think Raleigh-Romero would be even more sellable because they both just kill each other at these press conferences. It might be a

goofy fight, but they kill each other. Yeah, there's a possibility of Broner, but you start doing Red Catch bad. Pro Gray, terrible idea. Terrible idea. Your three-fight deal with Adrian Bruner go out the window if that It was, because Brunner would never be in boxing again if he fought Preaches Progray at that point. So we'll see.

Procray is a good mention, though. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, Progrey is a good mention because obviously Sam is involved. So, you know, why not? And I've joked. Regis has been on every other platform. It just seems like the natural force of progression, he'll wind up on B.LK.

You know, he's fought everywhere else. Yeah. And I hope he gets some, get some money out of it. You know, him being lost in the wilderness. I did a podcast last week, and I talked a lot about Pro Gray and kind of why, people weren't signing up. I got some calls from promoters who had mentioned that, you know, Top Rank being one of them, that mentioned that they,

that there was an offer from Top Rank for Regis Progrey a couple of years ago. He turned down. Just reminding that, you know, it's not just, you know, promoters ignoring Progrey. Obviously, Matchroom, too, you know, was in the Progray business, sort of when they were trying to make that hooker fight a couple of years ago. But, yeah, it'd be good to see Progray, you know, get a decent fight. Now he's got a belt. He's at least got the possibility of some of these good

matchups actually happening for him. All right. Let's move on to the fight we got this weekend. Teufimo Lopez against Sandoor Martine at Maddo Square Garden. Martin, a late replacement, but a pretty good one. It was just last year that Martin beat Mikey Garcia in a big upset. Now he gets a chance to potentially secure a second one. You know, you saw Teofimo's debut at 140 pounds. And a lot of people are critical of that.

They thought it got hit too much. They thought he looked a little bit slower at 140. What did you think of Teofimo's first fight at 140? And what are you kind of hoping to see from him in this one? You know, in retrospect, it makes sense, especially when he said he admitted, you know, I think he admitted more so after the fact. He'd really talk about it too much that. He had a very short training camp going into that first fight.

I'm sorry. Yeah, his first fight at 140. A lot of people didn't even know if he was going to go through with it. They didn't know where his head was at. That was always the biggest issue, was just like him getting right mentally. So it seemed like it took that part of it was longer. than he had the short camp. So it made sense that he had to get rid of a lot of rust and just get himself back

acclimated into the ring. So I do kind of forgive that. I do believe we'll see a better Teofimo Lopez this weekend. I will say I don't think he's the same as what Mikey Garcia was in October 2021, where even at his absolute best, and he's a, I don't know if he's going to make the Hall of Fame, but there is an argument, you know, maybe just barely. But he's always kind of had one fit out the door with boxing. So in that, you know, when we saw that last year, it was like, the fight almost kind of never got going.

And that absolutely worked the San Luis's advantage. I don't see that being the case this weekend. I do love San Luis confidence, though. He is not shook. We saw the photo shoot the ad yesterday, you know, Teufimo's trying to get inside his head and San the Martina had plenty to say. I don't know how well Teot Pema Lova speak. I think he speaks Spanish, so we should have understood what San Luis had to say.

But yeah, he's, you know, certainly sounded like he's here for another upset. These Spanish guys, just brimming with confidence. Carmona this past week. against Willie Susan Martinez. Carmona probably would have won't have won that fight if he didn't bust his hand up in the middle of round. Absolutely. Throwing left hands.

I like Sandra Martinez confidence as well. I agree with you that Mikey Martine was as much about Mikey as it was Sandra Martin. Like Mikey just wasn't into it. He's not 147 pounder. It just, he was just, that was his farewell. And Sandra Martine to his credit, took advantage of it. And I was able to cash in on it because he was.

one. I really didn't understand the criticism of Teafimo against Kampa. Yeah, he got hit a little bit and maybe more than he should have. And a bigger puncher might have done a little bit more damage. But he still got him out of there in the seventh round. Right. You know, still won that fight by knockout. And like, he's only going to get better as he stays active.

The best Teofima Lopez is an active Teofima Lopez. And here he is back again, what, four or five months later in a good fight, a high profile fight coming after the Heisman ceremony. I think he's going to be fine. I think he's going to look great in this fight. I think he's going to reestablish himself as a top guy in this weight class. The question I have now is how will top rank move him after this fight? Not to look past Sandor Martine, but I think he gets the wins.

And then it comes to where does he go from here? I think top rank, their preference, is to do Teafimo against the winner of Josh Taylor, Jack Caterall, assuming it is Josh Taylor, who is their guy. Teafemo has been talking a lot about. about Taylor as well. That fight, though, just got pushed back deeper into February. The interesting one to me, Jake, is Regis Program. I don't believe that we're going to get ProGer Ramirez in the next fight.

I don't think Jose Ramirez is going to take that fight. That's been relayed to me by a couple of people. I think it's more likely you get Ramirez in some kind of tune-up fight before he goes on to a world title shot. If he passes, at least by the ever-fluid rules of the W.B., B.C. Teifima Lopez would be next in line. I've asked Teofima. He's on the podcast after this. I've asked him, would he take that fight. He said abs a bleep and looting. I would take that fight. Do you think he's being truthful there? Do you think Top Rank would put Teafimo in with Regis Progray at this stage?

I will say this. So I'm with you. I was always told that regardless of the WBC status, Josh Taylor was the fight he wanted. That had plenty of heat. They had plenty to say about each other. This was back when Josh Taylor and Caterall was supposed to fight November 26th. That date's now been pushed back right to February. Now it's going to Martin. They don't want to stack the paper views over there. So if that pushes, if Taylor's fight is now pushed out of Tefumo's timetable, we just said, you know, an active Teufo Lopez is a dangerous Teufima Lopez. Maybe he absolutely wants that smoke.

Maybe he does go after. Especially if it's a straight shot at Regis, too. He doesn't have to wait out a Regis fight with Jose Ramirez anymore. So, yeah, he's going to have to do something because anything else is a risk. He, you know, he's made it pretty obvious. He doesn't want to fight, he doesn't want to fight Rick Merrigians. guys. He doesn't want to fight, you know, on a bobosa. There's something very personal there where, you know, Rick keeps going after him. And Teufim was like, well, you know, I'm just not going to

give you guys any payday then. So, yeah, yeah, he's going to have to do something. I think if there, if he's, I don't know if he has can give him another stay busy fight to bridge that gap to get to Josh Taylor. So maybe he does just go straight for that second title shot. He keeps saying he wants to be, look, he wasn't undisputed that lightweight, but, you know, if he thinks he was, then he wants to, you know, become undisputed in two-weight division. So the only way to do that is start winning titles. I agree with you. When the Taylor fight got pushed back again,

it started to make me wonder, like, would Teofimo be willing to wait? Because a lot can happen. I mean, Taylor could lose to Catterall. And then that makes that fight completely obsolete. And Taylor could win, be like, you know what, screw it. I'm not staying at 140.

I think it is likely he would stay at 140 because what's left for him at 140s? Or what's up there at 147? Like, do you really want to climb the ranks and let Boots Ennis kick the crap out of you? Or, you know, Virgil Ortiz. Or, you know, fights like that don't, don't make a lot of business sense for Josh Taylor.

Yeah, but if something goes wrong with it is a cut, you know, that pushes it into the summer, like I can't see Teofimo sitting on the bench for six months. And, you know, ProGray fight is a pretty marketable one. Like, ProGre talks a lot of shit too. You know, Dea Fimo talks a lot. I mean, I would probably favor ProGray at this point. But if Teofima goes out and blast Santa Mortina out of there, we could be talking about Teafima. Once again, is the guy that beat Lomachenko, this guy that,

You know, the Cambosis loss was an aberration. The Kampa fight was just to shake up the Russ fight. Here he is. Five pounds heavier as a top guy. That's a, you know, I'm not sure if that's a pay-per-view on ESPN. That's a pretty attractive fight for ESPN to put on. No, I agree with you 100%. The only thing I'm thinking of is if, you know, top rank is obviously moving towards

Devin Haney and Vassili Lomachenko. They want to keep that fight off pay-per-view. Now we're talking about spending a lot of money like in this first half of the year to put both of those fights on ESPN. As you said, it's probably maybe the payday would push it to pay-per-view. That doesn't necessarily make it a pay-per-view fight, though, a pay-per-view sellable fight. The only thing I can think with Teofimo, if he bridges the gap, you know, assuming he wins this weekend, maybe he goes back to fight in Jose Pedrosa if he's available.

Maybe that helps him, you know, bridge that gap to get to Josh Taylor. If Josh beats Caterall and decides, okay, I'm going to stick around at a weight that would make sense, you know, to fight a 157. So that's the only thing I could think. Yeah. So, you know, again, yeah. Good. Yeah. And then, you know, it's a matter of ESPN, you know, now you dishing out two paydays because they were going to pay for, you know, Lopez and Pedrasa this weekend. They got San Damant. Now you're going to have to pay him a lot of money to go fight Padrasa to get to that bigger fight. You know, top ranks, it's not top ranks problem that Progray will need someone to fight if he doesn't have Jose Ramirez.

So I like said, if they are available and Teufemo, it looks like the Teufimo vote. I would love to see Progray Teafimo next. But if not, I wouldn't be surprised to see Padraza workers win. I'm back into the next. Yeah, I don't think TopRag is interested in getting in the pro-grade business, but if if people pushes for it and if that fight makes a lot of sense and could potentially be put on pay-per-view, I don't know. Stranger things have certainly happened in boxing. All right, a couple things before I let you go. I've been widely reported on boxing scene. I was reporting it as well. Ryan Garcia has effectively settled in on Mercito Gesta as his next opponent. Gesta is

the positives of guess is a two-time title challenger, which gives him something of a resume. The negatives is, are, he's been relatively inactive. He did fight back in April. Decent win against Joel Diaz, Jr., but he had a lot of time off before that. He was knocked out two fights before that. He had a draw against Carlos

Morales, sandwiched in between. So here's my take on this fight. Like, this is kind of what I expected, right? Like, I didn't expect Ryan Garcia with Tank Davis in the offing in April to go out there and face a top guy at 140. I didn't think that was going to happen.

I look at Gesta, and I see a guy who's in the back end of his career, 35 years old, not a ton of power, does have some knockouts, but not a ton of power, especially not at this level. And he's a Southpaw. He's a 5'6 south paw, which at least mirrors the kind of dimensions you're likely going to get from Gervante Davis. I think when compared to the fight that Davis took against Hector Luis Garcia, this looks bad.

But it's not because Garcia, Hector Garcia is a good, it's a good fight. That's a pretty good interim fight for Chibonte Davis. But it's not what I, it's what I expected. And I'm actually kind of okay with it because, you know, assuming both guys, the key is getting these guys through these fights so we can get to April and get one of the biggest fights in boxing. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I wasn't mad at it either. I know, every time a Golden Boyd fighter is like, like, okay, maybe he fights for

Palinaris. So fortunately, Lenaris has a fight scheduled because then they were like, well, if he gets out of the fight unscathed, I'm like, if Jorge Lenaris is on schedule, he's not getting out of it unscathed, even if he wins. There's no way. So that that would have been terrible. I know Hector Tanahara's name, I think, came up. That was a possibility. That would have been another one that would have, after watching Tanahara against Zapata, that would have been one that Ryan could have won more easily. Yeah. And exactly, we don't know fight. He's not fighting someone like Williams of Payton. So I'm perfectly fine with this. Like you said, you know, just dimension-wise and, you know, fighting a left-eated to get the tank.

He doesn't fight anything like tank. But, you know, it's kind of a sparring session to get ready for April. I'm fine with it. I'll be in Texas. I love going to fights in Texas. So I do, as long as that venue holds up, I believe it's going to be the same place where they had the misfits boxing, the Moody Center. So it's a fun venue. So, you know, Ryan, he's doing big business in Texas.

So I like this as a stay busy fight. So it's not, you know, it's nothing sexy. It's acceptable. Love that it's in Austin, big Austin. Yes. Like, I'm down for, that might be a Tuesday fight week arrival for me to get in there. Yes. A little bit earlier than usual.

I mentioned Tank Davis, who had his press conference for Hector Garcia. All credit for Tank for taking this fight. I mean, if you make a top 10 fighter of the year list, the chance Hector Luis Garcia winds up on it because of the two wins he had against Chris Colbert, which was a quality win, against Roger Gutierrez, which won him a legit title. And Tank Davis didn't have to take someone on the. this level, but he did. And I give him all the credit in the world for that. I did find it interesting, Jake. We finally got the answer to the question, is Tank Davis still with Mayweather Promotions?

No, he is not. At least not for the moment. Tank Davis, in interviews after, said, you know, thank you to Mayweather promotions, but I'm going to go my separate ways, my separate way. What information do you have about kind of this decision and did it surprise you at all to see a Mayweather slash Leonard Ellabry-Less Tank at this press conference. It didn't surprise me. It kind of surprised me only because at one point, I think it might have, I'm not going to say who it was,

but at one point it was suggested that Mayweather was still involved in this negotiations at some point. So that's the only part of it that surprised me. Like, why would they bring up his name if they weren't about? I got the sense they were never involved at all. So absent that, no, it didn't. Because even back in May, like, you know,

it was put to me that like even though, like Leonard wouldn't be tank's promoter anymore, everyone in PBC still kind of does business together. So the sense was that maybe there would be some involvement. I do like the way Tank handled it at the press conference. He didn't slam him. He thanked, you know, he understands Floyd's on his own mission, which a lot of people aren't crazy about the stuff he's doing.

But, you know, he's always appreciated, you know, what Leonard has done for his career. So he handled that part classy. I'm fine with that. I like the fact, like Tank, he's in phone control of his career. That, you know, it's, we hear these shell promotions. It's like, oh, you know, it's just, you know, fake name or whatever. It's really someone else falling the strings.

Tank always did have an infrastructure. He has fighter assigned to the GTT promotions label. You know, Rayvone, Little John is running it. He's got Lauren Chavakin, you know, handling the publicisting and all that. So there is an actual infrastructure in place. And he just seems happier. You know, he's like he's in full control. Like this feels very different than like when he's just appeared in D.C.

Now he's the show. He's literally running the show in D.C. He's the star of the event. And he's, you know, everything's in his control. So whatever beef there is, if there's any beef with, with Mayweather. I know he's tweeted some stuff. You know, he's done his tweeting and deleting. I think he's going to find a way to suppress that and just, you know, move forward.

Like he's not going to carry all this negative energy. He'll just, he's going to be fine moving forward with his career. And then we just got to see where Mayweather promotions goes. I guess maybe it was a little surreal to not see him involved just because, you know, they helped, you know, build him up to become this big superstar that he has. He's obviously had, you know, the biggest part to do with it. But, you know, I'm happy for him. I am more curious to see where Mayweather promotions goes from here.

Because, you know, if Roli's still on the roster, you know, maybe that's, you know, I don't know if he can drive an event. He's more of a B side. But yeah, that's, it was weird. Like, you know, TGB, I guess they will get more involved as it gets going. But this was the Javante Davis show on Monday. Yeah. I guess my question is, does it tangibly change anything when it comes to Jervante Davis?

Obviously, the business side changes. But are we now looking at a Jervante Davis that is more likely to be? be in cross promotional events. I mean, the clip that's haunted Mayweather promotions for years now is when Floyd got that press conference

and said, we ain't doing fights outside of our circle. I'm paraphrasing a little bit there. But he effectively said, we're going to keep things in-house, which opened Gervante up to enormous criticism

because it kind of played out that way. They never really looked outside the PBC universe. Meanwhile, as 135 heated up. up, Gervante, even though he was making a lot of money and popular, was on the outside looking in. And you talk to certainly more people around him than I do, but I've always heard that, that bothered Gervante. Like the idea that these guys were actually taking real fights,

and Javante was kind of this appearance guy, the people came to see Javante and didn't really care about, about who he was fighting. Do you think that this represents a tangible change? Because Jervante is still represented by Al Haman, like that, Al Haman, who is still the most powerful figure in Gervante Davis's boxing world remains in place. Do you get the sense that in the second half of this year, we're going to see Gervante Davis maybe going up against Devin Hady, maybe taking on a Shakur Stevenson, you know, being in the kind of fights people want him in? Even if he doesn't get those fights, I'm with you on this path.

I believe he's going to be a lot more vocal about making those fights happen because he's even admitted that he's always in a position where he never asked for opponents. He just, you know, he showed up. He said, they told him this is who you fight. And he's like, okay, fine. So obviously he gets in these beefs with people. But now he's in a position where he can say, well, Al, this is who I want to fight. Whether or not Al says yes, that's another matter.

But yeah, I do believe Javante, he's going to be sincere. He finally, you know, he wanted this Ryan Garcia fight last year. He got it now. So credit to Ryan for, you know, doing his part to make sure it happened. So if, you know, if Devin and Shakur and those guys, if, you know, they're going to get their side, you know, as cooperative, then yet we will see those fights. but I do definitely believe, you know, at least Giovante, he's confident now that he can take the lead on that, you know, once he's done with this,

and if he gets through Ryan Garcia, which I think he will. Then, yeah, he's going to, he has a straight path to say, this is who I want next, not can I have this guy next? Oh, you think he gets through Ryan Garcia? I'm not so sure. I have been, I've been more a critic of tank's opponent's choice than I have a tank. Like, look, he's obviously a star and he's powerful and he's good and all that. I just, I can't get on board, you know, you know,

Some people put tank in the top 10 pound for pound. I think it's wild. Like you've got to beat somebody to be in the top 10 pound for pound. I just need to see him beat someone other than, you know, Jose Adraza. I mean, somebody, I didn't see him beat somebody on a high level. I think Ryan, look, I've always said this. First guy to land wins in that fight. Like it bombs away with those two.

And Ryan's got the power. And I think tank's ever been hit by anybody like Ryan. And Ryan probably has not been hit by anybody with the power of tank either. So I think that's a coin flip type of fight. I might be in the minority there, but I think that's a coin flip. type of fight. I did, last thing on tank, I did find, you know, when he released that email that Eddie Hearn sent him, offered him 10 million bucks to fight Ryan. I don't think that was the Eddie Hearn own he was looking for. Like he was offered $10 million. And that was a guarantee.

Like, I'm sure there were pay-per-view upside to that potentially as well. Like I kind of read that and people were like, oh, you know, Eddie trying to steal tank or whatever, like, you got offered $10 million. Like, you know, Eddie has his habit of doing this. Like, I think he said the same email to like Jamal Charlo and as well years ago, like emailing guys directly. But like if I'm Giovante, I'm not reading that and going, oh, this is dumb. I'm reading that going like a 10 million guaranteed to fight Ryan Garcia.

I got to at least consider that. And I heard him say one other thing was like, I think somebody asked him about cross promotional stuff. He's like, he mentioned Eddie. And then he kind of paused and was like, I don't know, I just want to make sure I don't burn bridges, you know, the bridges that he has right now. But I do like the idea that it seems like in Jervantes' head,

you know, opening up the world to other promoters and other, another universe. It seems to be the seed is planted there, I think. Yeah, I'm with you. The thing I found funnier about that was people saw that, you know, with Javante posted. And they're like, oh, Eddie's trying to steal Ryan Garcia. I'm like, no, he just wants to be involved in the fight. And Tank is the one who's tweeted, I'm not on paper. Maybe whether he even said that PBC, you know, didn't have paper on him. So if you're a promoter and you're reading that, like, okay, he's a free agent. I'm going to make an offer. I don't see anything wrong that Eddie did in that situation. So, yeah. And I just want to back up. Ryan.

Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. So, and I did want to back up on my prediction. Yes, I'm picking Tank in the fight. It's a 52, 48, maybe 53, 47. I just feel like with Deonté Wilder, when he fights, you wait for that right hand to land.

With Tank, it's like at something, you could be outboxing, which he never has been outboxed to that extent. Just once he lands, man. It's just tough to pick against that power. Say the same thing about Ryan, though. Like, I mean, it's a much lesser level. But remember when it was like all this, like, Ryan scared of Romero Duno, like,

didn't want to fight him. blah, blah, blah. Then he comes out. I remember Duno just walks into a bomb in the first round to the point where because that happened and it wasn't a competitive fight, we had to stretch the Canelo-Covellas paperview start for like an hour. We're sitting up there doing like a roundtable with Keith Ideck forever. It was like that took a while.

But like I think, you know, Gervantes got the power to put Ryan on his back. I think Ryan's got that power too. That speed is almost incomparable. Very few fighters have that. kind of speed that Ryan Garcia has. And that's what makes this fight great. That's why I'm like, just please, I don't care. You could Mercito Gesta, Hector Tanahara, I don't give a damn.

Just get him in the ring. Let him shake the rust off. I kind of wish, Jake, that the fight was at a lower weight because I want to see Ryan start to make his way back down towards that 136 limit that it's at. But whatever, he and Joe Gousin, they know his body, they figured it out, and we'll go from there. All right, last thing for you. We've got to talk about Demetrius Andrade, making an appearance on the podium.

Is he the opener of the pay-per-view undercard? Is that what I'm understanding? He's the opening. That was the sense of a guy. Yeah, he is now, it'll be, I think, what, 14 months when he gets back in the ring from that knockout win over Jason Quigley. He dropped his middleweight title since then. He's campaigning at 168. He was saying a lot of the same things that I've heard for years after the press conference.

Bring me Jamal Charlo. He's the guy I want, blah, blah, blah. At the very least, Jake, he's with the right people now to make these big. fights. Like, if you're trying to make fights against Jamal Charlo, David Benavides, Caleb Plant, you are now with the right promotion. So what do we know about, like, Andrade's standing within the BBC universe? Do you think this is a one-off?

This is part of, like, a multi-fight situation? And is this the year that Demetrius Andrade gets a real fight? Yeah, I was going to say, it took for you to finally give up on Andrade Charlo for that fight to now become a reality, you guys. Poor you. Now you got to go through this all again in 2023. And I do believe we get that fight because I just don't know what else there is for Jamal Chalo, even within PBC universe. I don't know if he gets the winner of Caleb Plaint and David Benavides.

So, yeah, everything seems to be in place. You know, Chalo, I don't know if he's going to fight Carlos Saddamas. That's, you know, who's going to have to fight at some point because that's mandatory. Why not finally go fight Andrade, especially, you know, Showtime and PBS have been able to reel him in, you know, on their side of the street, so to speak. So I am happy just to see, you know, Andrade's surface. it's starting to make some of these crazy business decisions make sense. It's like I'm not sure I would, you know, he knows better than we do. But giving up as much as he's given up to be the opener of a pay-per-view,

it's a strange decision. But it's the opener of a Tank Davis pay-per-view. So, you know, maybe he's getting a little bit more visibility. Maybe PBC is promising, okay, we can get you a fight now. We can get you. I do like that he's starting the year. You know, he's fighting in January. That gives hope, you know, if they have the budget, maybe getting back in April or May.

And then that puts him on the calendar of, you know, to fight the plant benefit his winner. I'm still holding out hope that. It's going to be, we're not going to get the unification, but we'll get Andrew Charlo at 168. Oh, don't tease me on that one, Jane. Tease me on that. It would be amazing if that happened. Right. And he is that the right weight now, too, because now that he's at 168, PBC does have a lot of stock at that super middleweight.

So there's going to be plenty of opportunity for him there. It's not just, okay, well, he's going there with a middleweight belt and Charles is your only option. He can have his pick a litter at 168. He can do a lot. I mean, he could fight David Morel for that make-believe belt. that Morel's got, winner or loser of plant Benevarez, but Charlo still makes the most sense.

Like, Charlo's out there, you see, he's doing some, he's weirdly like challenging Dmitri Bevo at events. It's like, what are you doing?

People's not going to fight you. And it doesn't really have, as far as I know, has nothing on the books. He said he was coming back in February. I've heard nothing of that of potential appointment, in February at least. And he's still holding that WBC belt,

which it might be two years before he defends it, since he beat Montiel in June of, that year. But look, 160, 168, 175, I don't care. Give me Charlo Andrade. I've already told people at Showtime, I'll be happily, happily be a unpaid, like, contributor if you need me just like to give some context behind this rivalry. I will just show up. I'll stare at a camera and I will tell you why this is the biggest fight in boxing baby, which is exactly what I said in November of last year. Good stuff. Jake, always appreciate your time, man. Great work. Read Jake stuff on boxing scene. Follow him on Twitter. Appreciate you joining me, man.

Thank you, Chris. Always pleasure to be on the show. And when we come back, my conversation with Teofima Lopez. So if you're looking to get more out of the NFL this season, now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook, because new customers get a no-swet first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win.

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You bet with me with boxing, bet with me with the NFL. It's a great way to make those games matter a little bit more. Make every moment more with Fandul an official sports betting partner of the NFL. DeFima Lopez is the former 135 pound champion. He is now 1 and 0 at 140 pounds and will go for his second straight win on Saturday. when he takes on Sandor Martine at the theater at Madison Square Garden. That's a fight you could watch on ESPN immediately after the Heisman ceremony. And Teofimo is back on the show.

So Teofimo, you're just telling me you're feeling pretty good right now headed at this fight. I am, I am, man. I'm truly excited about this upcoming fight against Sandler-Martin. You know, he has definitely the skill sets to give me a tough fight, and I'm looking forward to really challenging myself come December 10th. So why are you excited about this particular fight? Well, this was the fight that we wanted at the time because everyone else was occupied with other dance partners.

You know, and, you know, so this was the best opportunity. You know, this is somebody that definitely came out of a, you know, he pulled a big upset. You know, he kind of disrupted a little bit of the boxing game. And, you know, this guy came out of the bloom. You know, he beat a decorated fighter, one of the best Mexican fighters that we've seen of this era, Mikey Garcia for a divisional champion.

And, you know, he did what he had to do. So I think this is a great, great step up. I'm glad that things turned out the way it did. And, you know, we wish nothing but the best for Jose Pedraza. We wish him health. You know, we understand he had non-COVID symptoms. But this was the guy that we originally wanted, and we got him. Yeah, I was at that fight in Fresno when Martin beat Mikey Garcia.

And that was as shocking and upset as I've seen in a while. I mean, Sander Martin, I think, was like 25 to 1 as an underdog, and he pulled it off. I mean, when you went back in, and I'm sure you've watched it at some point, but when you saw how he fought in that fight, what did you think? You know, that's interesting that you asked that, though, because we were actually going to the fight to see it live, you know, first day. And then that's when me and Devin Haney and our fathers had scruffles. You know, that's when we're going back and forth face-to-face.

sense. But, you know, you know, when we got there, we got there a bit too late and they announced the winner. When it came to all the fights and everything and his style, my coach, you know, my father, he's watching him, really keeping the real insights of what he has that we could really, how can I say, having advantage on. And, you know, what I could say is that what he capitalizes a lot is he likes the ropes. You know, that's his defensive mechanism to to keep on. So there's a lot of things, but, you know, everyone needs to just tune in, you know, on ESPN, you know,

so that you guys can see what we really can do to fight us like that as well. That's right. That was the day when you and Devin Haney were going back. I wound up in the middle of that somehow, you know, trying to figure out how to make that conversation work. We don't need to talk about that now, but you two have to dance at some point. You and Devin, 140 pounds,

whenever Devin gets up there, that has to happen, right? Absolutely. You know, listen, I'm at the 40 division. We understand that Devin is going to eventually move up to 140 as well. So, you know, listen, sorry for the wait. Everyone just has to wait and see, you know, with time. So you're coming off your first win at 140 against Pedro Campa. How did you feel about that performance? You know, like just cleaning up the ring rust. That's all I was. You know, there's certain things that I know that I had to take with me to understand that, you know, it's just part of the game. haven't really fought consecutive, like how I am now, since 2019. You know, I was fight, I would fight like two to three times, you know, and then after the

pandemic hit and everything, I was only finding once a year, you know, so that definitely slows down the momentum. It slows down my consistency on what I, what we're trying to do. So this time around when I came into facing Kampa, you know, tough veteran. And then, you know, after what happened in 2021, you know, I blew my whole organs out inside, you know, my intestines, like basically everything inside. and what does that do? You know, I just made me realize I got to just train harder, fight harder.

And that's what I performed at night, you know, I just have fun. You know, I miss that. I miss having fun in my sport. You know, for four years, for four years, I wasn't having fun. And look what I did in those four years. So imagine now I'm having fun. My body's comfortable. My body's finally happy.

Like, okay, finally, bro, I wanted this two years ago. Now we're getting it now. So don't worry. We just stay active. and that's why you guys are going to get the best version of Tiofimo now. Why are you having fun now and maybe you weren't having fun before because you were very successful over the last four years, quickly rising to world champion at 135,

beating Vasilia Lomachenko. Why now do you say you're having fun? Because now I'm giving everything my all to the sport. I'm not dividing it. I'm not giving my time to, to, to, you know, my family and to my spouse or anyone like that. I'm literally giving it to my sport, you know, having fun with it. The thing that really created my life, you know, the thing that saved my life, really.

You know, so those are the things. Boxing saved my life. And all I could do now is just really take that in into consideration, you know, I had to learn, you know. My failures are what's going to bring my successes out even more. So, yes, I'm glad that everything turned out the way it did. You know what I'm saying? And before when I was younger, I did not like it. You know, I hated failure.

I hated it with a passion. And, of course, I'm not happy with it if I fail now. You know what I'm saying? What I'm saying, though, it's not failure. What it is really, it's the consistency of understanding that you only really fail when you quit. And I've turned the table on that now. And it's made me realize and I've been staying more positive because of it. Yeah.

And look, I don't pretend to be able to know what you were going through a year ago, which is around what it was when you had that cambosis loss. But having covered you for a long time, you could tell you were going through a lot, you know, going into that fight, like emotionally, mentally, physically, of course, going into that fight, getting down to that weight. From a mental perspective, from a where you are at personally perspective, how different are things for you now compared to what they were a year ago? Huge difference, man. I feel like I, to be honest, man, last year I died twice, man. You know, I literally died twice just so I could come back this third time and do it right. You know, that's really what happened. You know, I had to go through these dark times and rough times.

I think we all go through them, but it's not about how we go through them. It's how we come out of them. And I think that was just really that key factor. I think it was really, I let everyone else dictate how I should move my life when I think I'm doing, I think I'm doing just right, you know, with my decisions and the thing, I don't know everything. You know, I'm not supposed to. However, I feel like I carry myself well enough to know that, at least with this, the sport that I do with these hands, because I'm not trying, with these hands, I know I can handle myself.

And if I can handle myself with these hands, then I should handle myself up here as well. And that was a big difference maker, but I had to really settle it in. Listen, you know, that was it. You know, and training harder. My purpose really is that. It's like, the more I'm in the gym, the more I stay, crazy in this, you know? Go in. I go in. You know, it's going to really set the tone for me to greater heights. Did you feel after the camp of fight there were things that you had to

clean up in the gym? I saw a lot of people suggested maybe you were hit a little bit too much in that fight. I mean, I was ringside for it. I thought you performed pretty well. You did have to shake some rust off and you were getting used to to a new weight. But when you assessed the way that you fought, were there things you have worked on over the last few months getting ready for this fight? Absolutely. I work on, I work on perfecting my craft every time. You know, the thing was, like Bruce Lee says, you know, he doesn't fear the man that knows 10,000 kicks. He fears the man that has practiced one kick 10,000 times. And that's what I did this whole year. This whole year was a turnaround. I practiced on one thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

over again, you know, and that was the whole key. It was just, uh, it was a, uh, you know, and that's what I It was that. These things teach me. But how did I learn? How did the grades like Jordan? How did the grades like Tyson, Mike Tyson? How did the grades like Tiger Woods? How did they become great and greater? They had to fail. And people are so, they shy away from it.

And I allowed others around my circle to even get to me. You know, like that was the problem. Now it's a difference maker. I'm setting the tone. I'm actually going to be the one the frontier to say, you know what? Yes, this is my team. But when I go in that ring, it is just myself defending my team. So I got to go out there and put on a show. I'm the leader of this new generation. I spoke on this before and I'm going to continue to speak on it because no one is willing to step up to the real truth. And no matter what it takes, no matter how many cuts I have to go through, I'm willing to take them for the right reasons.

You're right about failure too. I mean, everybody points to the Michael Jordan finals record. What they don't talk. about is the number of times you got beaten the first round during the 1980s when Larry Bird and others were kicking his ass during that time. And he learned from that and he got better from that. And in boxing, we do this too much where we put too much emphasis on one loss. Only one all-time great has the perfect record. Everybody else has five losses, 19 losses in the case of Sugar Ray Robinson, who is maybe the greatest fighter of all time. It's crazy. And what fighter? And what do we always receive as fighter of the years we receive the what sugar ray robinson award with the with the brass and all that you know because i have one myself so i'm i'm appreciative of that you know but that's what

that's what it is and look that's why everything happens for its reasons god does not make no mistakes with any of us no one else took the chance i did so what did that come to terms with you got to take this defeat too champ you know why you're going to change the narrative that floyd put on everyone else. I love you, Florida, and there's no, no hard feelings. It's just really, it's a new era. And everyone has an era. This right now is my era. And then my era is going to pass. My time is going to pass, but I'll be damned if I don't give it to the next guy that's going to take up. That's what it's about. You pass the torch. But that's why we call ourselves to takeover because they wasn't passing the torch no more. They wanted to keep it. Now the takeover said,

F this and I'm grabbing this torch, whether it burns my hand or not, and we're going to keep holding it on until the next guy comes up, these next generation, these next kids that are out there that's working their butt off, that's listening to this right now, stay in the gym, you know, work your butt off. Don't tell, don't, anyone that tells you you can't do something, it's because they're scared of you. They can't do it themselves. You know, when someone says, I can't do something, it's like, no, you can't do it.

I can. And I will. And I am. those terms. It's like Steve, it's like Steve Harvey said. Instead of saying, I have to go to work,

no, I get to go to work. There's a big difference in just one word. Our tongue is very powerful. And I can't wait to put on a show. I can't wait to really, look,

we can't, like, I'm a phrase this, we can't just act no more. We must do. And December 10th, all this that I'm talking about is not going to be anything

unless I do what I got to do against this guy, Sandra Martine, and I promise you, I'm a fool. I'm going to hurt him so bad because it needs to be heard. You get what I'm saying. I don't need anyone to listen to me no more. It needs to be heard. And then that's what I'm going to bring to the table. Listen, man, I have everything in my power to beat these guys. And all I got to do is just stay in lane with myself. And I love the platform for you, too, which you fought on this day before, right after the Heisman

trophy. There's so many people watching. It's such. It's just such a great opportunity. I know that money matters the most in boxing, but getting all those eyeballs on you, like that, that is huge. That really is long-term only going to help the growth for you. Before I let you go, you're in what I think is at least top three divisions in all of boxing right now. 140 is really good.

It's going to get even better in the next couple of years as guys move up. What is the Teofimo Lopez hit list look like? What is like, what are you eyeballing the most in 2023? Well, God willing, the whole game plan for this one, God willing, you know, I come out healthy in this fight, no injuries. We capitalize on that and we focus on three fights next year. You know, we're looking at somewhere April, May, and then in the summertime, and then back, MSG, Heisman night. You know, these are my things. You know, it took me a while.

It took me two years to make this my night. Well, actually longer. We're in 2022. It took me, I would say, four years. It took me four years. It took me four years to get to Hizmann night to become my night. And you know what? That's great.

It took me those times for a reason. And it takes everything. Rome wasn't built in a day. You know what I'm saying? So my hit list is Josh Taylor. You know, we want him in the UK. We want to fight them, you know, and made the best man win against Catero and him. And then after that, we definitely want pro grace, you know?

I know these guys, listen, these guys can talk all they want. But like I said, the words and the tongues are powerful. When they say if, and when they say maybe, that's just cockiness. That's not confidence. When I said, my father said, I was going to beat Lomachenko, I agreed with him. I said, yes, we will. And what we did, we beat Lomachenko. There's a big difference.

And you know what? That's something that they can't, they can't learn. You know, you can't even teach that. You either have it or you don't. You know, so that's why these guys even pushed like, I don't know if I could be at this weight anymore. You know, because the takeover is coming in. And they know it.

And we're going to come and take everything that they thought they could have. and that's become two-time on the speed of world champion. And, you know, I have a surprise for everybody after the fight. You know, I'm going to call out some names that people are definitely going to want to see. I mean, the names you mentioned are great. Like, that's a hit list in a half right there. That is Fighter of the Year type stuff again in 2023 if you get through those fights. I'm curious, though, what happens with, like, Taylor, I assume he'd stay at 140 to fight you

because it's not a lot there for him at 147. But if Jose Ramirez, who I don't think is going to fight Pro Gray for his next fight, like if he backs out, you're the next mandatory for that fight. I'll fucking take that fight instantly. That was my question. Like, would you take that if presented? Absolutely. Absolutely.

What? Heck yeah, I'll be a world champion right away. What are you talking about? Right after this, this is it. You know, God's playing, not mine. You know what I'm saying? So this is all about just staying consistent. really, you know, these guys got a handful with me, you know, and they know it.

You know, they're all wolves, but I'm a sheep dog. I'm a sheep dog and I'm coming for everybody, you know what I'm saying? This is how we do it. And we do it with love, peace, and just fighting. We fight to death, you know, and that's what it is. I think the thing that these guys don't understand is that are you willing, are you truly willing to die for this? because I am

and if I didn't show it against the Campa fight or the Cambosis fight then you got something else to see then well Teo it's great to have you back man great to have you active again fighting for the second time in just four months hey everybody mad right now

I don't blame them shit I don't blame them I'll be mad if I was if I wasn't Tio Fimo either look we headlining Madison Square Garden shout out to my MSG fam shout out to the staff members and everybody across the board. Listen, man, I'll say it like this, man,

I'm so thankful. I'm grateful. This is all my fruits of labor. This is all from the hard work and the cuts and the bruises. And just doing it, no, there's no right way, there's no wrong way.

Just doing it hard. That's it. Just taking it in for what it is. Swallowing those hard pills that you got to swallow, swallowing my pride, swallowing my ego and just understanding

that this is what it's got to be. That's it. You know what I'm saying? So nobody else wants to do it. Everybody wants to look rich. Now, I'm trying, Teofima wants to be wealthy. Well, Teofima Lopez, Sandor Martin, Madison Square Garden, Heisman Night on ESPN.

We'll see you there, Teofimo. Good luck, buddy. You got it. Thank you, Manix. And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? Do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have age. on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Not a great week for me last week. I'll cop to that right away. I told you to take Chocolatito by decision. Juan Francisco Estrada beat him. Close fight, but Estrada deserved that decision. Probably should have known better after Estrada got the benefit of the doubt from the judges in their last fight. But the combination of how good Chocolatito looked against Julio Cesar Martinez,

plus how bad Estrada looked against Argi Cortez, I just thought Chocolatito was going to pull it out. Almost did. rallied the second half of that fight made it really close but estrata won that i also took a flyer on the day of the fight on carmona against martinez uh carmona almost won big he was an eight to one underdog when i placed my bet he was up like four one through five rounds that broke his hand he broke his hand could only fight with one hand the rest of the fight that ruined my chances of a big payday so my apologies for last week we're going to get back on track though this week

Because this week, we're locked in on the Josh Warrington-Louise-Lopez fight over in the UK. You could bet Terrence Crawford, but that's not going to win you much. You could bet Teifima Lopez, but that's not going to win you much. This fight, if you go a little bit bigger, has a chance to win you some money. And I'm pretty confident in my pick here. I'm taking Josh Warrington to win. Right now, he's at minus 156 over at Fandul. So he's a slight favorite against Luis Alberto Lopez.

I keep hearing all this talk about Luis Lopez is the next Maricio Lara. And you remember, Maricio Lara stopped Josh Warrington a couple of years ago, beat him up pretty bad in their fight. I just don't see it. I mean, Lopez has got some power, 15 knockouts on his 26 wins, but the guys he's fighting are just not great. So I don't think he's on the level of John. Now, I think Warrington might be a little bit gun-shy in a fight like this, so I don't think he's

going to go to war with Lopez. I do think he's the better boxer. I do think he defends his title. And I think he does it by decision. So if you're looking for a bet to make a little bit of money on, take Josh Warrington by points or decision. That's plus 105 right now over at Fandul. Josh Warrington defends his title against Lopez, wins by decision, and we get back on track.

That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Jake Donovan and Teofima Lopez for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Side.

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the game. games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast.

Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy, far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.