The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Winning the battle for Canelo

Episode Date: March 5, 2022

Huge episode today as Sergio Mora, Eddie Hern, and Joe Markowski check in. Sergio Mora is BACK and the guys discuss the top stories in the boxing world and the fights this weekend. After, Eddie dives into the workings of Canelo signing a multi-fight contract with Matchroom Boxing, and if there is still interest for a GGG-Canelo fight. Later, Joe Markowski stops by to discuss the PPV model with DAZN and what would ultimately make it a success. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris. Manix. All right, joining me now on his way to the canteena. I haven't even checked in. What are you talking about can'tina? You see my bag in my suit, right? Are you going straight to the bar or to your room first? I am going to the bar with Todd Grisham and then I'm going straight to my room.

Mohito time. This is like work trips, you didn't go to college, but work trips are like spring break for you. I want a junior college. And I took some classes, and yeah, it's working a little bit of play, yes. A lot of spring break at junior college, was there? Come on, man. I'm just asking. Of course not.

Associates what I get. Wait, didn't you almost, like, aren't you like half a credit shy? I am six units shy of a bachelor's or something like that. Why don't you go, you went through all that to be six units shy? Because I got my Ph.D. in boxing. Okay. I'm sure you did. Sergio Moore, the former junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster, frequent guest here on the podcast.

Sergio, we are in San Diego for, I would say, the highly anticipated Chocolatito, Julio Cesar Martinez fight that's Saturday on DeZone. Before we get to that, the story in boxing over the last few days has been a familiar one. Bad judging. Josh Taylor, the undisputed 140-pound champion, he fought Jack Catterall last week. weekend in Taylor's hometown of Glasgow. It was a competitive fight. Most people thought at the end of it that Caterall had done enough to win. Taylor got the decision, which led to widespread outrage once again over the state of boxing judging. Frank Warren, he came out and said he doesn't want British judges anywhere near the Tyson Fury Dillion White fight. Everybody is up in arms about getting judging fixed in boxing. Sergio, we go through this like every six weeks when there's a bad decision. You and I were ringside when Raymond Ford looked like he lost his most recent fight

and he was given a gift decision. Boxing, judging is bad, but nobody seems to know how to fix it as a former fighter. As someone who we've talked about this, you feel you have been on the wrong end of bad decisions. Most notably, was it the first or second fight with you, or both? It was both, but I'll tell you which one would hurt more. Shane Mosley won because it was on a higher platform. It was a pay-per-view HBO fight. I left a lot of money on the table. It was a horrible fight as a fan. I get that, but I won that fight. I don't want to go backwards, but in retrospect, I wish I could have done something different if I knew I was going to

get judged the way I did. How do you fix boxing, the million dollar question? Well, you hit them judges where it hurts them, the pockets, so you suspend them. You make an example out of them. If you don't make example out of judges, then nothing's going to change. They're going to get another fight, another event. If they help the promoter out or the promoters fighter, they're going to get hired by that promoter. It's all politics. It's all, what are you going to do for me? I'm going to do for you type thing.

I scratch your back. You scratch mine. That shouldn't be the case because one fight can change a fighter's trajectory in his career. And it changes his life, man. Not only does it take away, put a zero on his record, but it takes away zeros. from his next check. These are things that people just sweep under the table and fans and people in the media, but for the fighter, it lingers, it sticks around.

That blemish is always going to be on your record. And I swear to you, man, you get this bad taste on your mouth. Not for the sport. You get a bad taste in your mouth for, like, of course, the judging, but you just get bitter and you become dark. And the bigger the fight, the darker you get. It really is sad because Caterall those for all the belts.

It doesn't get bigger than that. It does not get bigger than that. I mean, if you were to dream up the ideal situation of how you can steal someone's dreams, that's it right there. For all the belts on the biggest stage, Caterall was unknown. This is exactly what that one shot is.

Like the M&M 8 Mile song, you get one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever want. wanted, would you capture and let it go? He captured it. Guess who let it go? And freaking judges, it's disrespectful. Yeah, the fundamental change that needs to happen in judging is that there needs to be a global ranking system, just like there are in every other major sport.

In the NBA, a sport that I cover, there is a ranking system for referees and only the best ranked referees get the biggest assignments, namely the NBA finals. It's the same thing in the NFL. I believe it's the same thing in the NHL. this kind of thing happens. There should be at the bare minimum in the U.S., a national system for this, preferably one that's globally. But that's a lot to ask for a sport that continues to shoot itself in the foot. How about this? I feel like you and I have had this discussion before, too. How about this? You have a main event. That main event should feature the three best judges in boxing.

You and I know there's a short list for that. You've got Steve Weissfeld. You've got Glenn Feldman. Don Trella might be on that list. It's probably four or five. Letterman is someone I have a lot of respect for. Like, you should, for every big time main event, those three or three of those judges should be involved. Now, as we record this on Thursday, I don't know who the judges are in the Chocolatito Gonzalez, or Chocolatino Martinez fight,

but if I'm Chocolatito, I'm concerned about it because I just had Carlos Sucre totally fuck me over in the last fight. Whoa. I'm just saying, like, this is like, like, touchy subject, man. No, but like, you're right. And I'm, I shouldn't be as a. defendant as you are because you're the fighter and you're out there risking your life,

you know, and to have some dweeb sitting ringside that gets it wrong or worse, maybe corrupt, has to be madding. I'd be going for their heads and they're next. I love the passion because you're talking like a fighter, which I know you're not. And let me tell you, I've been bitter for a long time.

Yes, you have. That Mosley fight, that Shane Mosley fight. Just about that. That ruined me in a lot of ways. The Verifite, in Texas, you know, you expect it. It's Texas versus a Texan. The rematch, yeah, that one got me. But the mostly, that one really emotionally tortured me, and I just hated the sport and made me better. But I wasn't fighting for all the belts. I wasn't fighting for undisputed. Caterall would have changed

the world. He would have become, he would have became, what, the fifth or sixth fight fighter in the four belt era to become undisputed? He would have went down in history. You know, that, you don't get moments like that again, you know? So even if he does get the rematch, which I know he won't, the stars won't align for him like that again, because Josh Taylor's not going to take him lightly the same way. He's going to know what to expect. He's a shorter South Paul.

He fought him the right way. That was a magical moment and sadly was taken away from him. That was a robbery. It wasn't a blatant robbery. It was just a nice, it was a nice, like, come on, man, what did you guys see here? You guys should have, he deserved it. Maybe that's the word. He deserved it.

It wasn't a highway robbery. He deserved it. Caterall will get another chance at one of those belts, but you're right. Like the money that comes with being undisputed is significantly bigger than what comes with just being a one-time title holder or whatever he will become down the line. Taylor, he's going to move up. Look, I was at one point pretty excited about Josh Taylor against Terrence Crawford. Not so much anymore.

Maybe I shouldn't read too much into one performance, but that version of Josh Taylor, that's not going to be good against Crawford. No, I don't think we'll see that version again. And I think, you know, with a fighter like Josh Taylor that, you know, he had to coming off the biggest win of his career, he was still riding high, you know, fought in his hometown. Everyone's been there, you know, being on top of the world with all the belts fighting on your hometown. And you come up short. You come up short. You don't have, you know, the full focus, the full hunger that you normally do.

It happens to every hometown fighter. I call it the hometown curse, Maddox. I hated it. There's a lot of fighters out there that hated it. Josh Taylor is going to feel the same way. All right. Let's talk about some drama in boxing now. It was just 15 months ago, Sergio,

when we were in Texas to watch Ryan Garcia climb off the deck, knock out Luke Campbell with a vicious body shot. The first person in the ring to congratulate him was Eddie Rinozzo. Eddie Rinozzo is gone from Ryan Garcia's life. One of the next people in the ring was Canelo Alvarez. Canello and Ryan Garcia have had a back and forth in interviews for Ryan Garcia. on social media, where he's quite the popular person. Give me a reaction to kind of this, you know,

quick fallout and getting ugly fallout between Ryan Garcia and Team Canelo. The first question that pops up into my head is why? Why leave Eddie Raynoso when you've been perfect with him? Five and O, five knockouts, two of them in the first round. Sensational. He's been looking great. How do you leave perfection?

How do you leave a camp where you're being? being under the wing of the number one fighter on the planet. How do you leave a camp that has Oscar Valdez? I mean, you're leaving perfection. You're leaving perfection because you're not getting the attention. Or maybe you don't deserve all the attention. Maybe that hunger that you, that you're lacking is there. The fact that you're not getting the shine, the fact that you're not getting 100%.

Maybe that's what's making you hungry. Look at Freddie Roach's fighters under Manny Pacquiao. They did well. Every fighter that Red Freddie Roach had on the undercards of Manny Pacquiao and the champions that he's had, they did well. They all went on the same trajectory. They won. And in this sport, all that matters is winning and winning impressively.

Ryan Garcia was winning impressively. But to be accurate, Jose Ramirez won a world title with Freddie Roach and then left him in part because he didn't feel like he was getting the attention from Freddie. All I remember hearing what you said right now, He won a world title. That's how I remember. So Freddie Roach, world title left. That's his fault.

And what happened next? Ramirez lost. Well, he went on to become unified. Unified. He beat Boris Hooker. You know, that was a pretty big win. Okay. And then he got pretty beat up by Josh Taylor.

That might have not been the case with Freddie Roach. All right. With Ryan Garcia, I just think, you know, with Ryan Garcia, he's such a popular fighter that he's taking a page out of his promoter's book, Oscar de La Jolla. What do you have? a handful of trainer changes, five, six trainer changes Oscar Delahoya. Ryan Garcia's on his third, and he's barely, what, 22 years old? He's on the same route as Oscar Delahoya, same.

And look at the Golden Boy had a Hall of Fame career, made hundreds of millions of dollars. Ryan Garcia is going to be on the same trajectory. He's following the same way, taking the same page. If it works for him, good. But you're asking me as a fighter, why leave perfection? Why leave the trainer of the year? Why leave training under the guide of the number one, in the world, I just do not understand it.

Well, then what if what Ryan Garcia has said is true that Eddie Renoso was not around as much as he needed him to be, to be his trainer? And Ryan even dragged Virgil Ortiz into this. I'm going to repeat what I just said. Maybe that made him hungry. It's kind of like not how I don't really get that, though. I'm about to explain it. You grew up with a father at home, right?

I did, yes. You're not hungry. I had no father figuring home. That makes you hungry. That makes you different. That makes you, yeah, it makes you a little bit, you know, bitter. It makes you like, I'm missing something. But a chip on your shoulder like, I'm missing something.

You go looking for what you didn't have. That hunger or whatever you want to call it, maybe I'm using the wrong word for hungry. But that missing part, edge, there you go. That missing part in your life or in your camp is what's going to keep you wanting more, keep you hungry. And I think that maybe was what Ryan Garcia had. in that camp with everyone really knows, so the fact that he was a little bit bitter or jealous

or the fact that he wasn't getting the shine, but he didn't deserve the shine. You're under Canelo's wing. You're in Canelo's Canada. You're Canelo's trainer. You're number two. Accept that and keep striving for more. Keep being hungry.

That's what makes fighters, the hunger. Whenever you get all the shine, you get all the attention, maybe that hunger is going to take a back seat. We're going to find out. You know, every time you see my father, you say, I wish I had a dad. Mr. Manix, I love you. I love you. I don't even know you, but I love you.

One thing I know you like, though, is that even though you don't like the split between Eddie Rinozo and Ryan Garcia, you do like that Ryan Garcia is now working with Joe Gousin. Why is Joe Gusson the right fit for Ryan Garcia? I like Joe Gousin for Ryan Garcia, because Ryan Garcia has a EREC style of fighting, fights, you know, kind of stiff. Dale Corrales type. Deo Corrales had a mean left hook. Ryan Garcia has a mean left hook. But aside from Corales, the Rellas brothers, Gabriel and Rafael Rellas,

same thing. They fought straight up. They had mean left hooks, good uppercuts, fought behind a jab. He likes slanky power punchers. He trains them really hard. They get great sparring

in Southern California Valley area. And Joe Gousson is one of the greatest trainers in the world. Not only that, but he puts the work in. Every great trainer, from Freddie Roach to Joe Gusson to Eddie Raynoso,

So they have the IQ, they know how to bring the strategy, but they put in the work. You've got to work hard if you're going to be in their gym. And I've trained in the Valley with Gousson. I've trained some of his fighters. I mean, I sparred with them. And what they lacked in talent, they made up in hard work. And they made things even. So Ryan Garcia has the talent.

What Joe Gusing is going to have the hard work. And he doesn't take no shit. Joe doesn't take no shit. Yeah, one thing I like about Joe is that he has had a brand. earning desire to work with Ryan for years. He worked with Ryan as an amateur. Yeah, he worked with him before he turned pro. And he's often told me, he's like, man, I don't know if he's, I don't know if Joe has

the appetite to work with a whole bunch of fighters. I don't think he wants to be this guy with this deep stable, especially not to he's so involved in television now. But he really wanted to work with Ryan Garcia. And now he gets a chance to help mold someone that he's told me. He's like, I don't believe Ryan Garcia can be defeated. Like he thinks Ryan Garcia at his best can go undefeated the rest of his career. That's a big statement and a bold statement to make.

And we've seen Ryan get chin-checked at least once during his time as a professional. And he passed a test. But, like, I mean, I can see it. Like, if Joe Gousson can add to Ryan Garcia what he did with Diego Corrales, Ryan Garcia is going to be a special fighter. And if Ryan Garcia really does feel like he needs the day-to-day attention, well, Joe Gusson moved down to San Diego. Joe Goosey ain't doing that for anybody.

Joe Goosen is in the gym with Ryan Garcia on the regular. So I'm very interested to see how this partnership pays off. I will say this, though, Sergio, a lot of pressure on Joe Goosen. Like, if Ryan goes out and looks like crap against Emmanuel Tego, Joe's going to take some heat for it. Right or wrong, he's going to take some heat for it. Have you seen how that man dresses? I do.

He has a bigger ego than both of us put together. He knows how to dress. He knows how to act, and he knows how to handle pressure, my friend. So don't worry about the press. He makes denim cool. Damn right. Joe Gousson. All right. Canelo Alvarez, we brought him up. He has been, he is in San Diego as well.

It's sort of weird, by the way, that these guys are like, I don't know how many miles from each other, like Ryan's training in San Diego still. Canello's in San Diego. But Canello was in San Diego for the kickoff press conference for his fight against Demetri Bevel on May 7th. That's a fight that's going to be on his own pay-per-view. Canello was very complimentary of Dmitri Beable, saying not only does he,

believe Bevel is the top guy at 175, but among all the options that Canello had to face and chose from over the next few months, including Jamal Charlo, David Benavides, Maccabu, the cruiserweight. He believes Bebel is the toughest fight that he could have taken. Do you agree with that? Yes, I do, because if you look at Dimitri Bevo, he reminds me of two of Canelo's past opponents, a little bit of Kovalev, not just the Russian side, but Kovalev and Jacobs. Covalib did well behind the jab. He did well with his size. And I think Daniel Jacob did well with his movement, his ring generalship,

the game planning brought into the ring and the confidence. Bivo brings both those things with Canelo. I think the style matchup is going to give issues to Canelo because you need two things to give Canelo issues. You need a move. You can't stand in front of him. Bivo is a power chess player. You know, he doesn't stand in front of you like he showed with Joe Smith.

You know, he couldn't stand in front of him. and he could take a punch because Joe Smith can, you know, break through a wall, you know, that he has a cinder block fist, and he cracked. He cracked Bevo at what in the final rounds in the 10th round. Bevo took it, so we know he could take a punch from a legitimate. Might not take it though if he, the bell rang. He'll take a punch from Canello because Conella doesn't have Joe Smith Jr. Speed, he backs it up with, like speed, as you know.

He's an explosive puncher, but it's not that cinder block power. So he's going to be able to take Connell's power and he's going to be able to carry a strategy all the way in the end. Anytime you interview Dimitri Bevo, he always talks about the jab, staying composed, following the game plan. And that's the reason he's not knocking out guys like he used to win. And his last five, six fights, he's gone the distance. He started off as a power puncher.

That goes to show you that he plays power chess. He has the power to take you out, but he's also a chess player. He's a grandmaster. He's a Russian, for God's sake. Of course he's going to be good at that. You know what my concern with Beaville is? I agree with everything you said. The guy's highly skilled and he's got some pop.

What's happened to him in the last few years? Like, he came up the ranks, and there were people comparing him to Golofkin back then, like the Russian Golofkin, knockouts at 175. He blasted away, I think, like 11 of his first 13 or something like that. Then over the last couple of years, and maybe he began with Joe Smith or around that time, but it was Joe Smith, Lenin Castillo, Craig Richards, his most recent fight. He's not knocking guys out. Now, I asked Bebel about this.

It's something he said to me. He was like, listen, basically it takes two to tango, right? Like, guys are not coming to fight him to win. I don't know if I agree with that, Sergio. I think guys are going to fight. I just don't see the same risk-taking with Dimitri Bifle. And I've said this on the podcast countless times. You can't just jab your way to a win against Canello.

You can use it as a weapon. Yes, you can. Mayweather did it. Cannella was like 17, whatever he was. He was 23. And he's Lundy Laura almost did it. Almost. Didn't do it.

I'm just saying you can't do it. Yes, you can. And grenades and horseshoes, man. Almost as a count. But you can. But you can. and just do it with a jab. You have to do it with ring general shit, too.

Bevo has that ring general ship. You got to do a power, though. You got a Golofkin, Golofkin should have on the first fight. That was a power jam. That was a power jam. Andy engaged with it. That was aggression and a power jab.

But yes, the jab was the main thing in that first fight especially. But it was power. Like, it was power, and it was standing in the ring and trading. Like the Kovilov fight, it was close. But I didn't think Kovlev was going to win because he just kept flicking that jab. There was nothing behind it.

You know, we took a lot of heat. Big right hand, but never threw it. We took a lot of heat for that Kovalev, Canelo-Fi, because we didn't give enough credit to Kovalev. But we saw that jab. It wasn't a penetrating jab. He wasn't trying to hurt. There was a button-in-girt flick jab.

He was patting the front of his gloves. And if you're watching that on television, maybe you're thinking, okay, while that jab's keeping him at bay, but it wasn't doing nothing. It wasn't hurting Konello. Kinella was closing the distance with his lower body getting closer and closer, and we knew why. We knew that he was confident that he was going to get to him.

No, you need a smart jab. Caleb Plant had a smart jab, but he didn't have the experience to do anything else. I think Plant had a good game plan. He just didn't have the experience. Now he does. Now he can come back and have, you know, he can go through the fire. But you need that experience. And with Bevo, I think that Joe Smith, Jr. gave him the experience that he needed because he knows he's one punch away from getting rocked.

You got to throw right hands, though, at some point. Like, none of the opponents canella was face since Golofkin have thrown right hands. Like whether it's Kovalev, Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders, Obny Yilderum doesn't really count. Because Conno is so explosive. And you saw what happened when you do commit to a right hand. The more you commit to power, the more vulnerable you are to power. And that's the reason people are timid or at least Leary to throw right hands against Canelo.

Because if you fall off balance or miss the target, it's good night. You know what I love about what Canelo did after announcing this fight? as he came out, and without naming names, he said to Jamal Charlo, to Demetrius Andrei, to David Benavides. Fight each other. Fight each other. You want me?

Go through each other. You know what? They now have. I'm very curious to see how this plays out. Because Canello's next, like, 18 months are probably booked. He is going to fight this May against Beable. He is then going to face, God willing, Ganadi Gilofkin in a showdown between two of the biggest names of the last 15 years.

And then he's going to go into a December fight where I've been told that it's more likely, it's likely to be Junior Macabu at Cruiserweight, or maybe John Ryder, if he wants to have a fight over in the UK. Whatever it is, I think it's going to be an international fight. I think Canello wants to take his show on the road, whether it is in Guadalajara in Mexico or over in the UK against a guy like Ryder. And then you get into Mayer. of 2023, and if we have a winner between Archer, Betterbev, and Joe Smith, with three pieces of

175 pound title, he's probably going to fight the winner of that fight. So Canello, in two fights, can become undisputed at 175. We know he loves history. He wants to be to build on his legacy. So with Canello saying, guys, I'm done until September of 2023, that puts a lot of pressure on the guys we talked about to do something on Charlo to face Benavides, a fight that should be incredibly easy to make on the PBC side. Andrade against Benavides, if it's being talked about. Joe Smith versus Badrubier. Well, that's going to happen no matter what.

Like, that's going to happen. Like, you know, that's penciled in for the summer. So I'm not talking specifically about that. But I'm talking about the Andrades, the Charlos, the Benavides, any of these guys that want to fight Canello, he's saying to them, stop waiting for me to choose you. Stop begging for me to choose you. Make me want to choose you.

Make earn the opportunity. Unlike really nobody's done it. over the last couple of years with Canello. The guy, like Bevel, maybe he didn't earn the opportunity, but he's the same as Caleb Plant. Plant didn't earn the opportunity either. He had something Cannella wanted, which was a title. Same thing with Demetri Bevo.

Say what you want about Ganadi Golovkin. He earned the opportunity. He fought 24 hard rounds with Canelo Alvarez, and nobody can say there was a definitive winner in either one of those fights. Next year, Better B.F. Smith winner, that fighter will have earned the opportunity. I hope that guys like Charlo and Benevi

and Andrade take this as a message and say, I'm getting in the ring with these guys. And then come middle of next year, Canel's going to look around and be like, that's the obvious guy. That's the guy. Benavides beat Charlo, beat Andre. He's the next guy that I should fight.

Make me want you. Isn't that a song from the 80s? I don't know, maybe. Oh, no, it's, I want you to want me. No, but listen, you make a lot of sense, man. I mean, and Connello makes a lot of sense, because el hafe, the big boss, he can sit on top of the throne

because he's the king, and everyone wants the pay-de. They want that pay-day. Pay-day. So they want that pay-day, and Canelo's holding that pay-day in front of him, and now he's saying, look, man, you guys want to come and take this crown off my head.

Why don't you deserve it, man? You guys need to fight amongst each other. And it's a smart thing to do, because Canello can't keep going to be a single person because he's bound to get caught. He's bound to have a bad night. He's bound to get injured. You can't keep fighting everything.

every monster they put in front of you because he's been doing that since he was 16 years old, you know, so. Maybe he can't continue doing that, man, especially going up and weight like he's been doing. There's a limit. There's a limit, man. These are natural 168 and 175 poundsers. This is a 5-foot-8, you know, stocky explosive, great Mexican, but there's limits, man.

There's limits, man. It would be. That's a limit, man. That's a tough fight. And look, I'd rather him face. go to cruiserweight and face Ilanga Jr. Maccabu than a Joe Smith Jr. or a better be of type winner,

because those are some legitimate 175-pound monsters, and it only takes one punch, and both of them can crack. Both of them are two of the biggest punchers in boxing. They don't need to hit you cleanly. They can hit you with half a fist, and they're going to rock you like you've never been rocked before. That's the scary part about going up in weight,

that it only takes half a punch. They don't have to hit you clean. The idea that Canello was ducking anybody is absurd. Just utterly absurd. And these guys can prove that they rubbish. They are worthy of the opportunity by fighting each other. Simple as that.

All right. Let's talk about this weekend. On Friday, Jose Ramirez returns. His last fight was in May of 2021 against Josh Taylor. It was a close decision in a battle for the undisputed 140-pound championship. On Friday, he returns. He's in Fresno, his home area. and he takes on a tough opponent in Jose Padraza.

A couple things here, Sergio. I was surprised that Ramirez stayed at 140. Like, he's kind of a big guy for 140 pounds, sturdy, stocky. I'm not stocky, but well built for that weight. He stays at 140 because he wants to get his titles back. And he's coming back against Padraza, who is not a gimmey fight. Jose Padraza has won, I think, three, four fights in a row since his loss to Jose Zapata. He has been in with Vassili Loma-Chry.

He lost by knockout to Gervante Davis, but he's faced tough competition. I'm a little concerned about Ramirez in this fight. Ramirez is surprisingly a big guy when he fought Maurice Hooker, and I sized him up. He's 5 foot 10, you know, and he's a big 140 pound, and I think if he goes back down, he can pick up those straps again. He can be a force at 140. 147 can wait. There's still big money at 140.

Look at Teofimo Lopez. That would be a big fight, huge fight if he can fight him. I mean, he can get a rematch with Taylor. I mean, that would be a big fight as well. Rejay's Progre. Right, but you don't think that I'd love to see another fight with Progrey, but I'll fight with Progrey. Like Teofimo, after he lost, was like, man, I shouldn't have stayed at 135.

Josh Taylor after he lost was kind of like, man, I probably shouldn't have stayed at 140. Like, that's what's in my head as I look at this fight. Like, are we going to have a repeat of all that? where Ramirez loses to a good fighter in Padraza, who is, I think, more comfortable at 140 pounds right now. If he loses it like that, does he do we hear afterwards, man, I should have gone to 147.

You never know, man. When it comes to, when it comes to fighters, they've been making weight since they were kids. We've been making weight since we're kids. We're amateurs. We know how to dehydrate the right way. We know how to time our body. We know how to taper down and hit the mark.

But they older you get. The older you get. Like he's young. Well, he got a little bit... Josh Taylor's young. He's always been a big, big, a 135 pounder. Teal Fimo's huge. So wasn't Josh Taylor, but he looked awful.

I haven't sized up, Taylor, but he... It's like 5'10, this big guy? Teal Femos, I don't know how he makes $1.35, how he ever made it. Even though he'll be a huge 140 pounder, because I look at Regis Progris. Decent size 140 ponder, but nowhere the size of a Tio Fimo Lopez or the height of a Ramirez or a Josh Taylor. He's a tall, muscular fighters.

But anyway, you know how to taper down, and the older you get, the harder it gets. And it's a science. Making weight is a science, and sometimes fighters take advantage of that science because they know that, you know, what they've been doing for so long. All right, so the bottom line is you get. You think it's fine for Ramirez to stay at 1.4. Yeah, I want him to stay at 140. You're leaving a lot of money on the table. He made a name for himself becoming a unified champion at 140.

He can be a two-time champion at 140. He could still be one of the top dogs there. I still consider him one of the top dogs. because, I mean, he lost to Josh Taylor, a guy that would be a Rejay's Probrecht. It's a good fight to 147, though. I'm not just talking about the Spence's and the Crawford. I'm talking about Virgil Ortiz, who is now an option since Virgil's gone. I think that's a bad idea going up to 147, especially if you're going to be fighting a young and an up-and-coming fighter,

like Virgil Ortiz, who hasn't matured into being a star yet. I mean, he's dangerous. We know he's the good. We know he's going to be a star, but he's not there yet. But at 147, the belts are going to fragment at some point. Like Spence is going to go. Like, you know, Crawford probably will still be there for a while. But like this is obvious.

Ramirez already had the belts. He wants some money. He wants the big fights too. Like you want to stay in 140 for those. He wants the big fights. I don't think he'll want to pick a bacon strap. What's a big fight? What's a big fight?

Teofoima was a big fight for me. Teofofemo's a huge fight. Prore would be a popular fight down south. Taylor's good. No, progrey's good. All these are big money fights. Progare would do it at 147 too. I think one I think when it comes to Ramirez,

that's after his first loss. Belt's no matter. He wants the big fights and big money. Pedraza is a live dog in this fight. And I'm going to talk more about this on my pick segment of this podcast. But Padraza is a very live dog in this fight. All right. Let's finish with the big one.

Chocolate Tito against Martinez, super flyweight. No titles on the line in this one. And nobody cares because you don't need a title on the line in a fight like this. Sergio, we were ringside a month ago when Bam Rodriguez beat Carlos Quadras. That was a 112-pounder, you know, just up to 112, coming up to 115 to face a veteran-experienced, highly successful 115-pounder in Quadras. How likely is it that we see another situation like that unfold in this fight on Saturday?

There's a possibility, but those are two completely styles that you're talking about. talking about two different personalities and temperaments. And Bam Rodriguez, who's composed, who's quiet, who followed the game plan all the way to the end, didn't take chances, but still got the respect. And then when you're talking about Julio Cesar Martinez, who's feisty, you've seen him in the fighter meetings, he's having fun, you see when he's fighting, he's hitting himself in the chin, he takes a big shot, he gives a big shot, he fights explosive. He can make an older fighter, an older legend in Chocolatito, not only feel,

34 years old, not only look like he's 34 years old, but he has the power to remind him that he's an old legend. So Martinez is very, very dangerous explosive fighter and he comes from from different angles. That's the one thing that older fighters hate when they have to pin down a mover and when they have to always be on their toes because a punch can come from either angle so explosively. Like when I fought Shane Mosley, for instance, after the fight he told me that's that's the biggest thing that he couldn't everyone thought shame osie was going to run over me but i never gave him a chance to plant his feet because i was always moving footwork

and and that's what martinez brings to the table aside from big power is switching from left feet to righty punching from awkward angers coming in with a left uppercut and then a body shot you don't prepare for that you can't prepare for that so that's what martinez is bringing to this table the fact that he's younger he's hungry he's he just punches from these awkward unexpected angles and when you're a legend like chocolatito the last thing you want to do is track down a young feisty you know fighter like this you want you want him to engage but you don't want them to engage from a softball angle from from an orthodox angle coming from the left coming from the right it's very tricky to pin down that's what older fighters

hate. So Chocolatito saw this stat the other day is 20 in one against Mexican fighters, with the one loss being last year. And that should have gone the other way. At least that Carlos Sucre card. Shout out Carlos Sucre for one of the worst cards I've ever seen. That was a horrible card. Canelo. Horrible fighter. Horrible. Horrible. A horrible card. You're Mexican American. What do you read into that? Like a guy that's successful. That's not a small sample size search. That's 21 fights against Mexican fighters, and he's arguably beat them all 21 times.

Do you remember who they called the Mexican assassin, a boxer? Roger Mayweather. The late great Roger Mayweather. And he was very successful against Mexican fighters, but he was a defensive fighter. He had that Mayweather shoulder roll. He had good power. You know, he became a champion doing that.

When it comes to Chocolatito, we asked them in the fighter meetings. I asked him, at least. I go, why are you so successful? He says, well, Mexicans come to fight. I asked him that. Stop stealing my... I was one that brought the stat to him. Yes, you know what? You brought it up, and I added on it, yes. Did you? I'm so glad you were there.

And it's the fact that Mexicans come to fight. A chokar is what he said, to crash. You know, they come to... They come to... You know, you don't have to go find them. So why should this be any different then? If you have a Mexican fighter that's coming to fight, like, why should we believe that Chocolatito,

who still looks like he's at the top of his game, there's going to be any other outcome? Because Martinez punches, from these awkward angles. And that's not a Mexican style, man. That's like a Nazim, a Nazim Ahmed, no, Osim Ahmed type fighter where he comes from different angles

and he carries the power. That's scary to fight because you don't know when he's going to punch. He's punching from these awkward angles and he carries power. You think he's not going to carry the power up to 115. I just don't know. I've seen yet.

I'll tell you that it doesn't matter. The unexpectedness, it's the fact that he's punching you from a different angle. That's what's going to catch him off guard. The power is going to be there regardless, I mean the strength. But if he punches from an angle that you're not accustomed to being punched from, that's what's going to hurt you. So one question I have, though, coming in is that you look at the last six, seven fights from Martinez.

He averages like 50, 60, between 50 and 60 punches per round per fight. Chocolate Tito is like over 100. The sheer volume of punches that Chocolatito throws are staggering. Like, how do you bridge that gap? To me, it seems like Sergio that Martinez has to knock him out. Because this goes to the scorecard, the number of punches Gonzalez is going to throw is just going to power him to a win. Body shots and uppercuts, which is Martinez's specialty. He wings his left hooks.

That could be dangerous, but that could also be dangerous punches to throw. But the punches that are going to be effective with Martinez, all the uppercuts and the body shots, especially when he's doing it from both angles, from lefty and righty. That's going to give issues to any fighter, legend or not. You know, it's frustrating to have to cover both styles. And then if Martinez can carry some kind of discipline and strategy, not just going forward and being aggressive and looking for the big shots, but if he can actually fight on the back foot, like we've seen him box.

I've seen him use his angles backing up as well. If he can bring a little bit of both those things and Chocolatito can be pushed back and have to come forward looking for him, Martinez can win this fight. He's a very dangerous fighter. We know that, but he... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far

away, such as the biology of tantons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's also a live dog. What was your specialty? Punching from different angles, believe it or not. Footwork and pissing people off? Footwork, frustrating opponents, speed. And believe it or not, I was a sneaky body punching. I was a sneaky body puncher just like Martinez. Only Martinez has the power. You know, but I would frustrate opponents. I would not let them set their feet, and I would hurt them to the body

because I couldn't hurt them upstairs, and the body doesn't have, you know, it doesn't take the big power. And that's what Martinez brings to the table. Whenever you punch someone, when they're not prepared, whenever you punch someone that's an awkward angle, they're not accustomed to getting hit from that spot. So it's unexpected, and those are the punches that hurt.

My trainer always use an analogy, and it's a great analogy. If you're walking into a room and there's a pole in the middle of the room and the lights are on and you expect to get hit that pole, you're going to brace for it. Turn off the lights and walk into the same room and walk in and then get hit by the pole. You're going to react a lot different. It's going to buckle your knees and it's going to hurt a lot more because you didn't see it coming. That's all getting hit from an unexpected angle feels like. That's a good analogy.

That's my trainer, Dean Koppels. I like that. All right. Go to the bar. All right. Go into a room. When we come back, my conversation with Eddie Hearn. Just can't seem to catch a break, huh?

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Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council.

Covington, Massvedol, the rivalry will be renewed this Saturday night and Fandul Sportsbook is making things even more exciting by offering new customers 30 to 1 odds on either fighter. That's right, you could win $150 on a $5 bet. Just sign up for the Fandul Sportsbook using promo code boxing, pick your fighter, and get ready to win big.

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Eddie, I'll get to that. But we began this day on Wednesday with the Canelo Alvarez, Dmitri Bevel, press conference. Now, last year, after the Saunders fight, I'm guessing you probably knew there was a good chance you'd lose Canello because Canello wanted that Caleb plant fight, wanted to become undisputed. And while you did try to bring Canelo or bring plant over to your own match room, you knew that was a tough, tough fight to make on your side. Going into this year, the odds were basically even, right? Like, you know, Canello would have options with PBC namely a Jamal Charlo fight, David Benavides, whatever it may be,

and you had Dimitri Bebel, Gennady Golopkin, that side. You ultimately won out. Canello signed a multi-fight deal with Match Room. I guess my question is, how did you kind of win that battle for Canelo? I think a lot of it is built over the last sort of 18 months, you know, in terms of the relationship that we've built. We did three fights together very quickly, didn't we? We did Callum Smith.

We did Avenue Yieldry. and we did Billy Joe Saunders. After that, I did feel you're right that Canelo's star power would bring plant to wherever we needed him to be. I didn't anticipate the stubbornness of the PBC to basically say

you're not getting plant unless Canelo comes over to us. So at that point, I kind of knew that we would probably have to lose a fight with Canelo Alvarez. We did talk about the Dmitri Bivow fight during that period as well. But

I kind of felt that I was, you know, banging my head against a brick wall because I knew how badly he wanted undisputed. And I couldn't even really convince him that he should fight Dimitri Bivow. Like in my heart of hearts, I knew that he had to fight plant because that was always the goal for us for him to be undisputed. And Eddie Raynoso and Canelo Alvarez said to me, look, we're going to take this fight, but look, you're our guy. We love working with you, et cetera. And those words are nice, but you hope that it actually leads to something in the future. This time around, you know, Eddie Aenoso said to us, look, what's your thoughts? You know, let us know your plans.

We've had an offer from PBC. We've had other offers from other people. And, you know, I said to them that I feel that, you know, one potential is to become undisputed at 175. You've done it at 168. It would be historic to go up to 175 and do the same. In the meantime, of course, there was the talks of. Ghanardi Golovkin. That fight remains probably the biggest fight in boxing. It's a huge amount of money available for both guys for that fight. So we started to incorporate that into the sort of two-fight

plan. So I felt that the good thing about what we had was Canello likes to face the champions and he likes to fight people where he feels like he's actually going to be getting something and adding it to the resume and making history in that fight. And I always knew that. that Jamal Charlo would ultimately be a voluntary defense of his 168 titles. And that doesn't really appeal to Canelo Alvarez. I mean, when was the last time that Canelo Alvarez made a voluntary defense of any title? I mean, I don't think that exists, you know, Rocky Fielding, I think. Oh, no, he was even mandatory at the time, I think.

So I think basically, I felt that because of the challenge of taking on a champion at 175, we had a good chance to land Canelo Alvarez. Obviously, financially, the deal's always got a match-up, and I felt like he wanted to work with us. He wanted to be back with me and match room, and it was a long time coming. It was probably four weeks I flew to San Diego before the Jesse Rodriguez fight,

and it's been, yeah, four weeks, basically, and quite a sort of long four weeks, because you feel like you got it, you feel like you haven't got it. Mike Copinger puts a story out. Everyone gets a bit annoyed. Where's that come from? Who said that?

We haven't done a deal yet. And, you know, eventually we got it over the line. What was the more challenging part of this deal to put together? The one where he's facing Beaville or the back half of it with Gannadi Golochkin? Probably the Golovkin fight. You know, although that's financially bigger fire, it's obviously there's a lot of history there. And they don't like each other. I mean, that's clear to see.

Still, even. Yeah, and I feel that they didn't really like each other before the fight. They still don't like. I think everybody's matured a lot since those two fights. I know it was only, what, three years ago, but I just think that you only have to ask Canello a question, as we saw to that at the press conference, for him to just snap back something about Gannardi.

And then you see Garnardi's comments across social during the week about the two, you know, defeats. And so that fight's always harder to make because there is a little bit of animosity. but like I think what people have got to understand about Canello is, is he will fight anyone. And people talk about, oh, he won't fight this guy, won't fight that guy. I've never heard him turn down. Like these people, Christian, sometimes in boxing you get people that come in and say,

oh, maybe could we have an easier one? You know, we're just for all these guys. Is there an easy fight? They never want to do that. So he was always up for fighting Ganardi Golovkin, if the deal made sense, if people actually wanted to see that fight. And people did want to see that fight. They do want to see that fight.

And he's more than happy to accept the challenge. You have referred to this as a multi-fight deal. Most people have focused on the two fights, but the aforementioned Mike Koppinger, has said there may be a third fight in the works for December. How likely is it that we see? Very likely. I mean, that was really, we always discussed a two-fight deal.

And probably about two weeks ago, Eddie Ray Noso came to me and said, let's lock in a third fight. for December. So although the two fights are papered, the third fight is very much being worked on at the moment. They want to do that internationally. You know, December always kind of sits to be a fight that is more like an interim

fight. Do you know what I mean? You've got Cinco de Mayo, you've got September. December's like the Abney Yieldrim fight, for example. I know that was February, but it's just that interim bout where it's something a little bit different. I would love to see Canelo Alvarez fight in Guadalajara or in London or something like that. I mean, can you imagine a fight with Canello in Guadalajara? That would be such a historic moment. We do have options in the UK with John Ryder because he's going to be the mandatory

challenger. Maccabu has been mentioned as well, the Cruiserweight World Champion for December. So there's plenty of options out there. I think Sal is really focused on Dimitri Bivol, but it's my intention with Eddie Ranozo to lock up that December fight over the next month or so. So Golofkin would come in between that, and a lot of the hardcore boxing fans kind of get a little irked the idea of a third Golofkin fight. It's a weird difference.

Like the casual fans, I think, are still interested. The hardcore fans are like Ganadi's going to be 40 years old. It's well past expiration date. How do you view it? Do you believe that fight is past its expiration? Oh, no. I mean, you know, it was only what? Less than three years ago,

we saw two of the best fights that we've seen in boxing. And I think the fight is very different now. I think the fight is more aggressive now. I think both guys will be looking to go out and actually win the fight by knockout. And Garnardi will think to himself, you know, I've had two decisions that have been close. I need to win this fight by knockout. I think he'll also think to himself that if I lose the fight, it's my last fight. So I'm going to go in there and give it absolutely everything.

I think Canello feels like he's improved a lot during that period and he will knock out Ganardi Golovkin this time. So I think the fight will be very, very explosive. Hardcore fight fans are sort of quite strange people. You know, you get two of the best fights you've ever seen. Then they want to do it again. It's like, oh, it's too late. It's like, guys, it's only three years ago.

I mean, I guess the inactivity of Ganardi, you know, some really no big fault of his own, but coming off the back of the pandemic might make people think that. But trust me, when that fight gets announced and they go head to head and the back and forth start, that's a monster. No question. All right, the reason we're here is for Chocolatito against Martinez. When you put this fight together about five weeks ago after Estrada bailed out, what surprised you more that Martinez was willing to move up for this fight or the Chocolatito would take it? I think a bit of both.

I mean, one thing, one of the great things we see about the smaller weight class is people willing to take risk. and people willing to jump up divisions, to take fights at late notice, you know, etc., etc. And when I was actually sitting in a cinema at the time watching a film, and I got the message from Estrada's manager to say, I'm really sorry he's got COVID, he just can't recover in time, he's not going to be ready. And I was sort of sitting there watching this film thinking,

I can't believe it. You know, Estrada Chocolatito 3 was really a great fight for the schedule. And then I started thinking about, and Carjas, I started thinking about other people, and I thought to myself, we told Julio Cesar Martinez that March the 12th was, we told Julio Cesar Martines that March of 12th had potential. So he was kind of like getting ready,

but he's never really getting ready, Julio Cesar Martinez. And I text Eddie Raynosa, and I just said, do you think there's any chance that Julio Cesar will step up and fight Chocolatito? And he went, wait for, you know, let me come back to you. Best is you back five minutes later again, my crazy man is ready.

And that was it, like the rest is history. And we just have, like, I can't say that it's a better fight than Estrada Chocolatito 3, but I think it's a more intriguing fight. Like we just don't know what we're going to get. Martinez could emerge to be a true Mexican star after the weekend. We're going to have 8,000 in the arena in San Diego. The atmosphere is going to be incredible. He may get schooled by Chocolatito at the same time, who looks incredible,

who looks fresh, who's had a very low. long training camp. But when you look at the mix of fights, anywhere between, you know, 112, 115, whatever it is, you've got Chocolatito, you've got Estrada, you've got Jesse Rodriguez, you've got Rungvisai, you know, so many great fighters there, Julio Seiz Martinez who could step up, step down, whatever, there's just so many great fights to make. And I think Saturday, I think we're going to get something really special with this fight. you're either going to see Chocolatito triumph as just a guy that will fight anybody and just a pound-for-pound legend or you're going to see a new star of Mexican boxing emerge.

Chocolatito became something of a known commodity in the U.S. based on those Superfly shows HBO put on for several years. You now have kind of some pieces to move around in that division. Maybe Martinez stays at 115. You had Bam Rodriguez winning last month saying he's going to. stay at 115. I mean, do you envisioning? Because like you said, these guys will fight anybody

any time. That kind of dynamic where you can just mix and match these guys a few times in a year? Yeah, literally you could put the guys into a hat and pick out any two in their super fights. You know, I mean, if Julio Sees and Martinez wins this weekend, Julio Sees and Martinez against Juan Estrada

is a super fight, you know, for Mexican boxing. Jesse Rodriguez against Martinez. Jesse Rodriguez against Estrada, Jesse Rodriguez against Chocolate Tito, Rungbyside. There are so many great fights to be made in division. And you can confidently believe that they will actually get made,

which is refreshing in the same time. The guys are getting paid well. Sometimes there's the kind of feeling that, oh, they do the lower weight classes because it's cheaper. Not really. You know what I mean? I had to pay Julio Caesar at Martin.

There's a lot of money to step up on six weeks notice and fight Chocolatito. But it's okay because we're going to get a war. So I'm happy to pay the guy as well, and they're happy to take the challenge. All right. Last question for you. You are working on at some level. Anthony Joshua, Alexander Usick, the rematch.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a game. galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the look back at it, podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I turn on my TV this week and I see Usik on CNN in Ukraine at his family home, a basement of his family home, a bunker with his family.

he's away and he's made some comments about he's not sure when he's going to defend his tiles. At the very least, he's not training for any type of fight anytime soon. Obviously, that's a bigger deal. It's a bigger situation of what's happening in Ukraine. But as far as Anthony Joshua's future, are you, I don't use the word, concerned, but what do you think about the ability to get him into the ring with Usik or get him in the ring at all? Well, firstly, that's the fight we want next, and that's the only fight AJ is concentrating on. you're quite right obviously there's much bigger things going on in in ukraine than a boxing match

and we respect uh usik's position you know his country's position his he's emotional his his family's well-being and we wish those guys all the best and we need to plan for anthony joshua's career and if he's not going to be ready within the time frames that we expected that fight to take place then i would envisage an interim fight for anthony joshua but it wouldn't affect the long-term goal which is to fight Alexander Usik next. So any kind of move in that respect would lend itself to waiting

for Usik to be ready. We're not going to wait and wait and wait and whilst we respect their situation, we have to look at the future of Anthony Joshua but if it's a three-month delay or whatever it is, we would like an interim fight in that period. And I think that's more than fair

but what we don't want to do is give up the option or the contractual clause of a rematch with Usik because it's the only fight AJ wants and he's tried you know people have tried to pay him not to take that fight and he wouldn't accept so he'll you know the first question to me is well I don't want to lose the Usik fight so we need to speak to Alex Crassick and a team but you know Chris doesn't really feel right to even call him at the moment and sort of start asking questions and digging around so we'll have to see what happens over the next couple of weeks but we respect

their position, but we also must act in the best interest of AJ's career. Do you look at it as a couple of weeks before you have to kind of make some kind of call? Yeah, I mean, we were already in the process of nailing down the venue and going through the offers. So we look for that fight to take place early June or something like that. So there is still three weeks, four weeks, till the guys actually get into Kemp, but we just don't know, you know, I don't know enough about the situation to know how long that's going to last, and I don't think anyone does. So we'll give Usik the time that he needs, but at the same time, want to get AJ back in the ring.

Eddie, appreciate it. Good to see it back in the U.S. Thanks, Chris. When we come back, my conversation with Joe Markovsky. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure.

and they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council.

And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bag's

daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't clogged. Typhers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off! Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car,

and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. All right.

So in the aftermath of the announcement of Canelo Alvarez's return on May 7th against Dimitri Bevel, coming with that announcement was that it will be a part of a DeZone pay-per-view. That is obviously representing a shift in. in the business model for DeZone, which burst onto the scene in 2018, effectively trying to eliminate pay-per-view is now getting into the pay-per-view business. Now, to kind of break it down,

I want to bring in Joe Markovsky, vice president over at DeZone. Joe, I guess we did a podcast back in December, and we kind of alluded to this coming. But now that it's here, kind of break down for me why this is necessary and what, you know, just how often will it be used?

And what can boxing fans expect from the pay-per-view model over at the zone? There's three questions there. Good to be speaking with you as well, Chris. Good morning. Look, why is it necessary for us to do this? It's necessary because to continue delivering the best in market value offer we do in terms of regularity and quality of fights, we need to be in the pay-per-view business.

The market has evolved. Canelo Alvarez is starting. has evolved. We've expanded our business into new markets with our established pay-per-view stars who will not fight without being a participant in the pay-per-view revenue share, Anthony Joshua being a very good example of that in the UK. So both the market we exist in and the scale of our business has changed and we believe we know that to get the fights we want to get on the platform and the fights that fight fans want to see, we need to occasionally make use of pay-per-view technology and a pay-per-view commercial platform.

It's not a decision we took lightly. Clearly, myself and other broadcast execs at the zone four years ago, it was four years ago, I think it's key thing to stress, had a different position on pay-per-view then, and we're here not shying away from that, we're not denying that or trying to get away from the fact that we did position it differently previously, we're acknowledging that our business and the businesses that we are in have evolved and changed. And that is a major component of why we're doing this. I think your second part of the question of how often it will be used and when it will be used, I think that the zone pay-per-view platform will be used far less frequently than other broadcasters

use pay-per-view in this country. I think the UK, the situation is very different. We will use it sparingly and when we need to to make fights happen. not every single fight on the zone is now going to flip to a pay-per-view model. The quality of the subscription content I think is going to go up this year. If you look at what we had announced in the last few weeks, if you look at the months of April, well, March, April, in particular, Ryan Garcia, April 9th, Taylor Serrano, April the 30th.

There are other broadcasters, we and you both know in this market. If they had their hands on Ryan Garcia would make all his fight's paper views. We are not doing that. We are continuing to deliver value into the subscription offer. and we're continuing to focus on that value proposition in the subscription. What does it mean for our business? Not a lot. I think it means that we are going to continue being the best value proposition in market

for boxing fans in the US and the UK. Our numbers reflect the fact that subscribers now understand that and they're loyal to us, increasingly loyal in terms of how long they stay because they recognize that value and they know the product we serve them is a high quality, high value one. I'm very happy ultimately when this is a conversation. about value to point to that and talk about that because I still believe hand on heart, honestly, we are the best value proposition in market. And I don't think many people in your side of the industry on the journalist's side are going

to dispute that. What changed since 2018 when the zone came into the business looking to eliminate pay-per-view? What changed to bring the zone to this point? Well, I think what's changed is the market's changed. And the numbers involved in making these fights. and they've been reported, we've not fed them, but they've been reported, they're not a million miles off. To get the rights to Canelo Alvarez fights

and to Anthony Joshua fights, you're in a competitive market where people are willing to guarantee large amounts of money. At some point, as that market inflates, the model we were using for those fights previously becomes uneconomic. And so if we want to continue serving our customers with holistically the best value,

you offer in boxing, we have to be able to compete in those processes. The alternative would be not to compete, not have those fights on the zone, and they'll be broadcast somewhere else, in a broader pay-per-view offering that will be far more clustered and busier than ours. And I don't want to criticise anyone else's business. That is their business to run. They'll have their own view on what we're doing, but they'll keep it to themselves in most cases. We're going to stay focused on what we're doing. I really think this is a conversation about value at the end of the day. And the value point, I think, is maintained.

We're still considerably ahead of the market in terms of the value we offer to boxing fans in a number of different ways. In original programming, in quality and regularity of fights, in our social media coverage, our willingness to cover the entire sport, which no one else does in boxing. We serve boxing fans really, really well.

We've been, I think, very, very good value for a long time. We're going to continue being very good value. And I think ultimately, I'm confident, having, I know this business inside out, I'm confident we're making the right decision. Do you have a target or a max number of paper views in your mind for a calendar year? I think that's what gets, because as you well know, boxing has become kind of saturated with paper views where it's almost monthly that people are being asked to shell out an extra $75 or whatever it is. Do you in your mind have a max number that it will go to?

We're not going to use it regularly. We're going to use it sparingly. We're going to use it sparingly. We're going to use it far less than other people in the market use it. I'm not going to name names or point to fights, but there have been lots of fights recently, and you know the fights I'm referring to, that in my mind should never be pay-per-views. And I think the reported numbers that get released by various places online and by chatter in the industry reflect the fact they're not seen by consumers as interesting pay-per-view nights. We're going to use it sparingly and where we have to use it. you're not going to see it be a month to month pay-per-view culture on the zone. I can assure you the most senior levels of our business are bored.

When we're talking about our boxing business, they are very, very clear that the value to our business longer term is in growing that subscription base who have been loyal to us, who have been good to us, we've been good to them. We've served them with tremendous value. They've stuck around in increasing numbers. the length of time they stay on our platform of subscribers is longer and longer every year.

We've got to know them better. They've got to know us better. And the relationship's stronger and stronger. Our business and our board are absolutely clear that if we play with that group too much, whereas all we lose them and we're not going to do that. And ultimately we reflect in our pay-per-view decision-making. It will be sparingly, not regularly. You've been in the Canelo-Alvarez business.

since 2018, beginning with the Rocky Fielding fight, do you believe that you could have stayed in the Canelo business with this two-fight deal without the use of pay-per-view? No, I don't. And that's a reflection of, by the way, Canello's popularity and his growing stardom because the market for his rights

is far more competitive than it was a couple of years ago. Good for him. He's an incredible fighter, he's an incredible marketeer, he's loved and adored by fans all around the world, particularly in the US and in Mexico. He's transcending Mexican-American boxing fans, which I think was probably the vast majority of his audience a few years ago. He's a transcendent star with super brand power and super stardom. So those kind of people in this country get heavily rewarded and the market is reflecting that. So I'm happy for him. I'm confident

in the numbers that we've put forward and the model will employ that it's an economically sound decision for our business. I think it's reflective of all those things. Last question for you, do you, the announced paper view for Canello against Bebel, 5999, on top of the 1999 that you'd pay for a monthly disowned subscription. There are other ways to do it, of course,

getting the annual subscription, which most boxing fans, I would imagine, have. Do you see price points as being fluid, like as you move forward, or do you aim to stay in one certain area? Paper view price points. Paper view price points. points. Yeah, there will be.

And I think Canello is always going to be at the top end of that market because he's the top, currently, it's the top pay-per-view star in the US. So I think on a case-by-case basis, the cost, the incremental cost of a zone pay-per-view will be fluid, yes. But again, we're going to use it sparingly with an eye always on value because we maintain our position that we are the best value play in boxing for fans. I'd encourage them that the annual pass is a fantastic value for fans. Eddie wants to do 50 shows this year on his own, Eddie Hearn.

Golden Boy, Triple G, our broader offer of content, our original programming offer, our day-to-day Desone boxing show output. If you're a boxing fan, the value DeZone serves you is incredible. We're going to continue doing that. Good to be back in the Canella business after he went off and became undisputed after one fight. I've been practicing in Spanish how to say welcome back to the zone and maybe you'll see that later to the press conference. Maybe I'll bottle it and not go through with it, but I've been practicing. Look, we've been in the Canelo Alvarez business for a while. We love working with him.

He took a little hiatus, which, you know, I put on a personal level, I really respect what he's doing, right? He's not letting a broadcast relationship affect who he fights and when he fights them. You have to respect that from a sporting perspective. Clearly from my business side, I want Canelo Alvarez fighting on the zone as often as possible. because he's such a powerful driver for our business. We've struck a good deal. I think 2022 is DeZone in Canelo in Cahoot's in partnership. Matchroom boxing are fantastic partners of ours.

They do a great job promoting Canelo. I think if you look at our broader offer of content with Ryan back fighting with Katie Taylor and Amanas Serrano in a historic clash the week before Canelo, then you're into May with Canello, then you're into the summer with our broader roster, the Mungia's and the Dias's and the Garcia's again. You're talking about a very, very strong five or six month play here. So I'm going to take the opportunities to sleep and rest where I can.

Because I don't think there's going to be much of that over the summer months. Well, Joe, I appreciate you laying it out for me. Appreciate it. Thanks, Chris. All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandoul. If you have been betting with me since I started doing this in January, you have probably won a decent amount of money. Last week, I told you to take Josh Taylor by decision over.

Jack Catterall. What happened? Josh Taylor won by decision. This week, I am locked in on the Jose Ramirez Jose Padraza fight. That is Friday night in Fresno, California, 140 pound fight between Ramirez, a former champion at 140 and Padraza, one of the more well-known names in multiple weight classes. So, ordinarily, I would lean heavily towards Jose Ramirez. But I have some questions here. Ramirez has not fought since May of 2021. Now, Padraza last fought in June of 2021, so he has been just as inactive. But Ramirez's last fight was against Taylor. He lost a big fight, a undisputed championship fight.

And I thought in that moment that Jose Ramirez was a pretty big guy for 140 pounds would take that opportunity to move up and wait. He decided to stay at 140 and is going to try to get one or more of his. titles back. That worries me a little bit. Padraza, he has been at 140 plus pounds for his last four fights. So I think he's more comfortable at this weight. I think Padraza, whose losses have largely come at the highest level. He was stopped by Giovante Davis. He went the distance with Vesely Lomachenko, and he lost Jose de Peta. These are not bad losses. So I am going to take the underdog in this fight. That is Jose Padraza, plus three-nine.

over at Fanduil right now, and I'm going to take him by decision, which is at plus 550. Now, one of the thing here, the location worries me as I make this bet. I agonized over this bet because of where this fight is. Fresno, California, the home region of Jose Ramirez. And we saw with Taylor against Caterall in Glasgow, Taylor's backyard, you know, that location matters. That beating a guy on his home turf is really difficult. But I think Padraza's got one last signature performance in him. And I am concerned about Jose Ramirez getting back down to 140 to make the weight for this fight.

So I'm going underdog here. Pedraza by decision over Ramirez. That's my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Amora, Eddie Hearn, and Joe Markovsky would join the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast. Spotify, wherever you can download podcast. And I'll see you next week. We just can't seem to catch a break, huh? So many rough fire seasons. But we made it through.

And now there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt vegetation can lead to floods and mud flow. I know, but you've got this too. And one way to get this is to get this, flood insurance. There's no rest for the West. But with flood insurance, you can rest assured that you're ready for whatever else nature throws at you. Protect the life you've built at floodsmart.gov slash wildfires. What grows in the forest? Our imagination and our family bonds. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes and you will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discover the Forest. Forest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert. It's Michael and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. Eighty-four is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.