The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Women Take Center Stage

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

Joining Mannix this week is Gareth A. Davies, longtime British journalist with the Telegraph and Talksport. Mannix and Davies dive into the surprising talks between Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua, what Savannah Marshall needs to do to beat Claressa Shields, why Mikaela Mayer-Alycia Baumgardner could steal the show, more; later, Mayer on the trash talk with Baumgardner and how she wins this 130-pound unification fight. #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I.'s Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance.

Here's Chris Mannix. All right, joining me this week, the one and only, Gareth A. Davies' telegraph, talk sport, looking more and more like a retired beetle every day. Just living the dream. We're here in London, where Clarissa Shield and Savannah Marshall will square off on Saturday, recording this in the lobby of the Fight Hotel,

where the press conference just took plate. Gareth, always good to see again, my friend. Can I say cheers and have a little clink? Yes, I was instructed we have to drink tequila while we record this. Yeah, a double shot of tequila in a glass while we record it. At least I should say we got the less expensive version of it. Initially, we're going to go about 240 for the tequila. 240 for two doubles, yeah, it was a little bit too much.

I won't mention it. I don't know if you're now to mention the brands on your show. Sure, yeah, why not? Yeah, it was a patron platinum. Yeah. But we've gone for a bit of Don Julio. Yes. Still does the job. Yeah, and we are, just to put a picture on it,

we are in the lobby of the Riverside Canary Wharf. We are in Canary Wharf, which is in the Docklands of east of London. It's a beautiful area that was remodeled during the Olympics, 2012, 10 years ago, but also it's a big business area. Canary Wharf itself is fantastic. It's the old Docklands, this is, and the O2 Arena is a stone's throw from here. In fact, you can walk to it across a little bridge over there,

pedestrian bridge. We've had a lot of press conferences here for Anthony Joshua in the past, people like that. Eddie Earn uses it regularly. But we're here today with boxer and top rank and sky sports. It's great to be here. It's great to see you in the UK. I don't know about when people start saying retired, the one and only retired,

retired, retired. Retired beetle. But yeah, it means you getting a bit too old for it. But it's lovely to be here and see you in person. Last time, a few times we've done this. Virtually. I've been in a hotel room.

You've been wherever you are in America. We've done it virtually. So great to be here with you in what is a historic week for the sport in terms of 20 women fighters on one card. Incredible. I want to get into that. But before we do, we talk about the card happening this week. What the hell is going on with Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to recap for the audience? Last week, Tyson Fury called out, you know, said, let's get a fight done, Alexander Usik,

the unified heavyweight champion, just beat Anthony Joshua on August 20th. Ouse came back and said, I'm not ready to go until 2023. So Fury turned his attention to Anthony Joshua. His longtime domestic rival said, let's do a fight AJ in December. AJ, at least on social media, accepted. There have been, at the very least, preliminary discussions between Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn about a fight. Gareth, this feels awfully tight to be putting together a fight of this magnitude. How much credence do you give these talks for a Fury AJ fight before the end of the year?

The purse split might have been agreed 60-40, but the chance of the fight happening before the end of the year, I think is about 98-2, i.e. 2% chance of happening. And I think after today, and we're recording on Thursday ahead of the fight, and it was obviously Monday that he called out Joshua, that Fury called out Joshua, I think it'll be probably 1% or zero. The thing is, looking at it from the outside, yes, it is an opportunity for Anthony Joshua to get in through the back door

and try and win a three-weight world, a three-time heavyweight world champion. But the way boxing works and the negotiations that need to take place for a fight that's probably worth $100 million US dollars, you can't get it done in a couple of days. You can get the agreements there, but I think there's just been a lot of posturing around this, and that's what it is.

And people can sit out there and say, yeah, we should just take it. And no, it's not, I hate to say this, because I sound like an old fart sometimes. This is not how boxing works. And it's not how big business works. Big companies don't merge in a week. There's preliminary agreements.

They start to go through things. They've agreed a 60-40 split, and they were talking about a second fight, but they're all playing a game. Tyson Fury, it's not a ruse. he means it, I think. He'd love to get Joshua out of the way this year and fight you sick next year, and he's cleaned out the era. And I do think he needs to do that to prove himself as the supreme heavyweight of the era. I don't think there's anyone else really knocking around that he needs

to do it against. But as you saw, they all agreed because they weren't ever going to agree on the dates. November 26th, December 3rd from Tyson Fury to Anthony Joshua, Eddie Hearn knew that the Warren's, Queensbury promotions, had booked the 17th of December as well, Cardiff, but that was in the event of Fury fighting Usick. Fury could come forward and say, yeah, all right, December the 17th then,

but I think they'll find some way of getting out of it, one side or the other. Fury would take Joshua now, there's no doubt about it. Joshua shouldn't take Fury right now, not on the back-to-back losses to Alexander Usik, You talk to any boxing sage, anyone that's been in the sport for a long time. Go and knock out a couple of bums. Rebuild yourself.

There are six fights left for Anthony Joshua where he could. I mean, I'm talking real terms here. There's six fights left for him. A couple of bums. Dillian White, Deonté Wilder, Tyson Fury. Yusick again if he wants to later down the line. And probably Joe Joyce. All those fights.

And there are a couple more as well if he wants them. It's worth $150 million those fights as well. He's got an amazing deal with Diocheworthy. zone. If he loses against Fury in December, and he is rebuilding from the mental and physical catastrophes that he had, catastrophes is a strong word, shortfalls that he had against Yusik. He loses in that fight in December, or Fury stops him. It's a huge climb back if he ever does climb back after that, in my view. So I don't think it'll get made, but it does excite us. And if they do get it done, I'm all in. I mean, came out of my job. All my

Choward. Came out of nowhere with all that. Like, I was stunned that AJ was even considering. And I think he would have looked bad if he didn't consider it. But I'm with you. That posturing, aren't they? Yeah, total posturing. And I think Eddie Huron's tried to been trying to call some bluffs here and say, like, all right,

we'll agree to this, we'll agree to that. I'll just do it on December 17th. I'm with you. I think AJ's next fight, if it's in December or January, like, is Dave Allen still fighting? Like, somebody along that level to get some confidence back. If you want to do one more like that, fine. But I wouldn't mind Dillion White fight in the first quarter of 2023. And if he wins those two fights, he's kind of back, at least on the big stage.

And then you can start looking at Deonti Wilder, who might be coming off a win over Andy Ruiz. He might have two wins in a row. That fight is massive in the U.S. or in the U.K. And then Fury, we both know. You know Fury better than I do, but he's not going to retire. He's never going to retire. He's going to keep going and going and fake retiring every six months and then come back because what else is he going to do?

He loves his family. I'll give him that, but he can't sit still. He can't just be a family man. Go over it. Think of it like this, Mr. Manix. He gave me an exclusive the other day. He was fighting the mountain, this world's strongest man. He flew to, where was it?

Where did he fly to? Iceland to see him. But he was in Milan. That's amazing. Drank while he was there at least. Bjornison was in Milan. Wasn't even there. I love the mound.

I love Game of Thrones. Yeah, exactly. And it was a fun exhibition. fight and I was actually with him on tour Tyson Fierre on his speaking tour hosting him one night where he was actually talking to him live and so I know that it was genuine

that they were trying to set it up then he was fighting Derek Chazora and he offered him out then he'd retired again then he wanted to fight Anthony Joshua for nothing then he wanted to fight Anthony Joshua and I did this story within myself for half a billy half a billion pounds or dollars then he was retiring again

then he wanted to fight Yusik then he retired again there he wanted to to fight anti-Joshua so you know that's Tyson you know he's he's he's erratic in that way and the trouble is when you're when you've got that kind of appeal that he now has that kind of mainstream appeal you know the twitter sphere goes mad social media goes mad the newspapers then follow and so I'm following the story at the moment I shall be writing about it later because it's kind of dominated the boxing news agenda this week you know, in a week when there's a lot of other things going on, you know?

Yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, look, if you're Fury, like, I wouldn't mind revisiting the Chesora stuff. Like, if you really want to fight somebody in December, like, Chesora probably be up for it. Like, you pay him a little bit of money. You get him in the ring. No, he'll need $2 million, I think. Which I think is reasonable, like, for a fight like that. I think that's what they offered Chisora, apparently.

I would tell you this. The problem with Fury, though, is he wants these fights, but he wants to get paid commensurate with these fights. And that money isn't always there. Like, it's not there on pay-per-view. to give him the dollar figures he's looking. That's why whenever I talk to Top Rank in the U.S., which is a partner, obviously, with Fury, they're like, no.

Remember, like two years ago when he was going to fight Ajit, what's his name? Cut by L. Yeah, they're like, it's not going to happen because Fury wants X, and that money simply isn't there. So it's not sellable. So, well, we'll see. If he wants Dutrasora, fine, but let's kick Joshua to 2023. All right.

The reason we are here at this hotel is because we have a terrific women's card headlined by Claressa Shields and Savannah Marshall. As you mentioned, what, 20 women on this card? The co-main is excellent. Michaela Mayer against Alicia Baumgartner. Michaela is joining me later in the show. How big is this fight domestically? Like Savannah Marshall versus Cloressa Shields,

give me a taste of kind of how significant this fight is in the UK. Well, look, it's on Sky. They've decided to, Sky Sports is the equivalent to VSPN in America. Yeah You know They're putting it everywhere Every time I turn the TV on In the hotel

There's some kind of special On one of those two fights Yeah Look it's a big It's a big event I had several discussions With Ben Shalom You know

As we do We get more involved With the promoters As we get involved In the industry for a long time And he was going to put it On a Newcastle And I got that

And they'd sell out 10,000 But they've taken the gamble Of doing it the O2 Arena, which is a fantastic arena for Box. You've been in there in the big tent. You've been there before. I have. Yeah.

It's going to be an amazing atmosphere. And they reckon 35% of the tickets have been bought by women. So that's going to create a new atmosphere in itself. I was there for KSI and Swarms the other day. That was a DeZone Misfits card. It's amazing atmosphere. Different. And it'll be different again on Saturday night.

Women fights are different. How big is the residents here in the UK? They've really pushed hard to make it very resonant. They've worked really hard on... I agree with the top line. It's the biggest female card of all time. I do agree with that. Listen, you can go back through Mia St. John, Leila Arley,

Christy Martin. I covered all the bits of these people's career. I don't know if you were there years ago, but I covered Leila Arlie and Jackie Frazier Lide in the circus tent in Syracuse, New York State. And that was fantastic. and that felt quite big. The old men were still alive in there then.

Trito Trinidad was there, I think, Bernard Hopkins there was a really big tent, 6,000 people in there. That felt like a big occasion for women's boxing. This is a big occasion. My fear is that this fight, the styles in this fight, we may not get a tear up. Like we got in Madison Square Garden between Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor, that was, and you were there working on it.

I was there working on it. It was extraordinary. I took my new girlfriend. She'd never been to boxing. She could not believe it. She wanted to take up boxing. All friends and family watched it and were amazed. I've got to watch women's boxing.

More eyes will be on this than ever before. But I think the show will be stolen by the Michaela Meyer, Alicia Baumgardner fight for three of the world title belts at Super Featherweight rather than this, all the belts in the ring magazine at middleweight. Because I think this is going to be a cage. affair between two women in Shields and Marshall that have a 10 year rivalry that both

of them believe they have the rights to walk away as the winner from. It's a very, very difficult one. It's why I asked at the press conference today, Chris, is there a rematch? Because we're going to need one, I think. I really do. My understanding, I think it was explained at the

press conference, is that Ben Shalom and Sky effectively have the rematch clause. Like, it's not Clarissa has won Savannah has won. If this is incredibly marketable, they can exercise the river. Although Clarissa can just turn around and say,

I'm going to go to MMA and screw you. Like, I'm just going to do it. So we'll see. We'll see. I mean, look, both these women, if this is a great fight on the level of Taylor Serrano, the money's going to be even more. They're going to want to get back in the ring with each other,

you know, once again. So I don't think, yeah, rematch clause, we'll see what happens there. Do you not see in the two styles that Claras is going to push forward and Marshall's going to dance? Well, let me, this is what I was going to ask you about. Like, I don't think a lot of, a lot of people in the U.S. are familiar with Cloresa.

She won two gold medals. She's fought most of her career in the United States. She's big? She's known. I don't know. She hasn't really headlined in a big venue at this point. Her best venues have been in Detroit, Michigan, you know, near where she grew up. She's certainly well known, but as far as being a headliner, probably not.

And that's why we're here, quite frankly. Like we're in the UK where Savannah Marshall is equally or more known as well. Let me ask you that. Like Savannah Marshall, to a lot of U.S. fans, it's still relatively unknown. They know the storyline why this matchup is spicy. They know that Savannah Marshall beat Cloressa Shields in the amateur ranks 10 years ago, and that's not at Cloressa Shields ever since. In your opinion, how good is Savannah Marshall?

Well, she's good enough to have beaten Clarissa Shields in the amateurs at the world's amateur championships and become the number one and going to the Olympics here, years ago, 11 years ago, 10 years ago, sorry. It's 10 years ago pretty much to the day. Time flies. Um, yeah, doesn't it? You were over for that. I was at Rio for the 2016 Olympics. And you were at 2012 as well, I think. London, yeah, I was here. You were here. It's 10 years we've aged. Incredible. Not a day, not a day we've aged. But those women at that time were very different, and they've both grown enormously. Correster Shields is fighting here. One of the reasons is because she won the Olympic

gold tier. In my view, if we're going back to this original question, how good is Savannah Marshall? She's got a lot better under Peter Fury. She's found this style of dancing on the outside and using her height and reach advantages and then coming in with power when she's in close. Has she been really tested?

I don't think so. I think these two are both levels above everyone else. That's why I'd like to see them have a trilogy of fights because they are in a different level. Yes, maybe both them can go up and fight H.H. Deva, who's a different kind of brawler. Obviously, Caracas fought HHDiva. I watched it. It was Hagler-Herns. Her debut. It was on the undercard. Both their debuts, I think. Yeah, exactly. It was on the undercard of Ward and Covalhoev 2, wasn't it? I mustn't eat while we're doing the quadrants. Some foods arrived, and I was about to talk to in.

I think Savannah Marshall's going to be hit more than she's ever been hit in this fight. because Shields does close the distance and let her hands go I think she's probably got a great chin as well and I don't think she may go down and get up Shields I think she might well do she was down once in her career where the Hannah Gabriel's put her down first round of that fight yeah but the thing is we're going to be seven eight rounds into this fight before we know it these two minute rounds go so quickly

yeah and it's going to be a tight affair one will win it one will win another I don't see knockouts don't see them going toe to toe very much I see it being a cagey technical fight between two very clever, very elite fighters, protecting unbeaten records, and going after all the belts. There's so much at stake here. I think the big question is, is Savannah as heavy-handed as she seems? Like, her early fights have shown a tremendous right hand.

Great pop, great power with that straight right hand. To your point, I think Peter Fury has done an excellent job in cultivating that, in making her a cleaner puncher. but Clarissa is really active and she throws from angles and she's highly skilled. My only concern... I think Shields went on the outside,

on paper, Shields wins on points in a very close fight. I even think it might be a little bit wider. I feel like it has a 7-3 potential to it. I could be wrong, but I think Clarissa's skill level is just a little bit higher. And she's also not, like, as much she talks about power,

doesn't really have it. Like, Clarissa is not a power puncher. She likes to think she is, but she's not a power puncher. Maybe she would have more knockouts if she fought lesser competition earlier in her career. She gets off balance a lot when she throws. A little bit.

A little bit. I want to say it's amateur, but she's great. Mail boxes do that as well, by the way. Plus, when you're a decorated amateur, you don't fight the pro style as well. Like it takes you with some time to adapt and become a sit down on your punches. She's got the right trainer. John David Jackson is an excellent trainer when it comes to that. Work with Sergey Kovalev during Kovlev's prime years of his career.

So I just, I get the feeling it has, you know, There's some moments for Savannah Marshall, but Clarissa Shield's skill level will rise above. But what if Savannah Marshall catches her? Catches her. That's the game changer. Comes in hard late in the fight, closes it, and it's a controversial split-points decision for Marshall. We're right back here in three months. And they'll be interested in it, too.

Just like there was more interest in Taylor Serrano, too, they'll be interest in a fight between those two women as well. You mentioned the undercar, which I think has a chance to steal the show. Michaela Mayor Alicia Baumgartner Another event where there's no love lost between these women Mikaela Mayer has been the more celebrated of the two US Olympian in 2016 First Female Fighter signed by top rank You know has been given ESPN televised slots

Where Alicia Baumgartner Kind of fighting in the shadows a little bit Fighting in the the lower tier of boxing How competitive do you think this fight is Well I finished my hummus and pitterbrose I think it's a really competitive fight. I think it's Michaela Meyer's fight to lose probably stylistically because she's the longer, taller, ranger athlete with a very good jab,

a very good amateur pedigree. And as Michaela said to me in a very interesting interview recently, this is the last generation in which women are going to be able to come in straight into the pros and be a pro. They're not going to be able to anymore off this. going to have long amateur pedigrees. They're going to have to be schooled because the sports changing and women's sports really changing. Baumgartner is the explosive super athlete for me. Look at her. She's incredible physically. I don't mean that in any male way looking at a woman. Her physiology and her musculature is just staggering, staggerly beautiful as well. It's a beautiful

human being like if Anthony Joshua's an Adonis she's a female Adonis maybe but she is she's extraordinarily powerful you see her sprint work in some of the videos you see her physical workouts her power but she's three inches shorter she's not as experienced as Michaela she's got less tools at her disposal so I expect a clever boxing match with a couple of troubled moments for Michaela Meyer and I expect her to win it, you know, 6-4 or maybe even 7-3. But again, she mustn't be drawn into a toe-to-to-battle with Baumgardner because Maeve Hamaduch, fine, but not Baumgardner. That's what Baumgartner wants to drag her into.

Like, that's what a lot of this trash talk has been about. Like, get in there, fight with me, throw punches. Baumgartner, of course, doesn't have the amateur background that Michaela Mayer has, But that may look, I think for women especially, that may work for them. Like look at some of the bigger punchers in women's boxing. Sanisa Strata in the lower ranks, Amanda Serrano in the mid-ranks, now here with Alicia Bumgarner. The common thread there is not a deep amateur background. They grew up as pros.

Like sit down your punches since you're eight years old. That might work for her in a fight like this. She's not going to outskill, Michaela. You and I think I'd agree on that. But if she lands the shot that put Terry Harper out on her feet, she might be able to hurt her as well. Yeah, I think Terry Harper is a different physical animal to Michaela Meyer. I mean, like you say, she's always been a very great physical athlete. You know, her dad was a soccer coach, which she said she grew up tripping over footballs, basically, with two left feet, as we say, and wasn't talented at soccer.

But I think I've done a good job with Michaela Meyer of top rank recently. And, you know, Melissa, a Melp.R. has done a great job with her as well. well. And just getting Michaela to be out there a bit more, you know, she's just, there's something trendy about her now. For me, she says a lot of the right things. And she's very, I think all these women are extraordinary, you know, we have to bow down as men to their extraordinaryness as women. We, you know, we admire a lot of male fighters, but have a lot of admiration for, for these women. As Michaela said to me, if I can get a good victory here and call out Choi. If Choi doesn't want it, that's the last belt holder in the

Super Featherweight division. I want that fight signed. If she doesn't want to do it, I'm moving up to lightweight and I want to fight Katie Taylor. And I think if Michaela Meyer wins this really convincingly, she's quite a good prospect for Taylor, as is Natasha Jonas, by the way, he won at the weekend. A rematch with Taylor and Jonas is good as well. If Katie wants to go back to the U.S. and fight, Michaela's the fight. Exactly. Yeah. That's a New York or L.A. or even Vegas type of fight. Exactly. But as we say all the time,

one of the things that I find as I get older and I've been involved in boxing 30 years now and journalism 32 is it's so weird how I've just been in Saudi Arabia for a big and very different fight in which we're finishing at 6 in the morning. It felt like an Olympics, buses to different venues all the time.

And I'd do it differently if I went another time. Then back for KSI and Swarms, a YouTuber celebrity influencer week. Now this completely different, like a side street we're going down with a really great explosion at the end of the week with 20 women fighting on a card. Look at boxing's ability to do different things

and be creative. I know you love your basketball and NFL's huge in America and Premier League football and Champions League is huge here, but it's formatted. It's the action just there, but I've got to applaud boxing for its creativity. We've come out.

of lockdown in a really good way. It's a very interesting place, a very interesting kind of landscape to inhabit, you know, because it's so creative. It really stimulates the mind. And I don't know if you feel the same, because we've been in this for so long. I do. I do feel the same. I feel like boxing when it's at its best is unrivaled.

And we can sit here and quibble over what it's not its best. We debate, you know, Crawford Spence and fights that don't happen and things like that. But when they do, when we get a card like Taylor v. Serrano, when we get a card like this, 20 women fighting on it, two explosive main and co-main events that have the potential to be riveting. You know, in the case of Mayor Baumgartner, fight of the year type of fights, you know, grudge match with, you know, shields and martial. I think it's great. I think it's terrific. So I'm looking forward to both. I don't know if I'm quite as excited, Gareth, as I was for Taylor Serrano, but it's close. Like, it's, I'm ready for Saturday, man.

What they did very, sorry to interrupt you, what they did very cleverly in New York, which could have done a bit more here, they should have got some messages from Serena Williams this week about these women fighting, about how Clarissa Shields is great. I think they could have gone, I think they could have gone broader and wider. In New York, they got Billy Jean King, they got, I don't know their names, but they got African American senators. They got Mexican American senators. They had everybody. They had everybody.

And I think that really resonated. And it was Madison Square Garden. And they were on Good Morning America. Yeah, exactly. They got that kind of thing. Good Morning America touches an audience that boxing never touches. Yeah, exactly. And they were very loved. I heard that morning when they went

on there as well. It really resonated with the audience. You know, a million people. Was it a million five worldwide? Yeah. Yeah. It's great. A million, 1.5 million people will have had their views and perception shifted one way or the other on women's boxing. It's always about perception shift. It's always about eyes on people. It's always about narrative, the background, the storytelling.

That's why we're in this. Because there are extraordinary people that we talk about. I don't think this is as big as that. It captured the imagination. But I have noticed it growing and today it's grown a lot bigger. I mean, there are things going on in the background in like. our country today that may affect it again. And that'll probably be clearer when the podcast emerges, when your great show emerges.

But yeah, it's growing. It's big. 15,000 people at the O2 Arena is a big event. And all the media that needs to be here is here, by the way. I agree. I agree. It should be a great show. Gareth, always good to catch up with you, man.

Looking forward to seeing you again on Saturday night. Thank you. And when we come back, my conversation with Michaela. mayor. Well, the NFL season is upon us and you want to kick off week one with Fandul, America's number one sports book. Join today to get started with $150 in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet. Just sign up with promo code boxing to get into the action. Then you could turn game day into payday all season long. You can do win totals, division winners, Super Bowl winners, player props, everything. Week one spreads and totals, you name it.

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All right. Michaela Mayer is here. Unified, 130-pound champion on Saturday. She will look to add a third piece of that title to her resume. She takes on Alicia Baumgartner. That is a fight that takes place in London, where we are recording this in a hallway outside the press conference. First time in London for you as a fighter, right? You've been broadcasting for Sky for a little while, but first time as a fighter. Yeah, I've been here about four times in the last year and a half, but yeah, first time fighting. Yeah. They do, it's one thing I've noticed being here. Like, they really push boxing stuff. Like, I turn the TV on. There's stuff of you. There's stuff of Cloressa. There's a lot going on here when it comes to this fight. That's one of the reasons why me and my team wanted to get me out here. Because, honestly, it's a little bit tougher in America, as we have seen. You know, I was just telling everyone this, that I was top ranks only fighter for five years, and they finally added Senisa. And I'm so grateful for that. And people think, like, wow, it took so long. But I'm like, honestly, that's a big step. The market is tough in America, and boxing is not our top sport like it is here. You got boxing, you got soccer or football, they call it. Correct. But we got the NBA, the NFL, everything going on in America, and there's just so much competition.

Does it feel bigger here in, like, the days and weeks that you've been here? Does it feel like this is a big event? Oh, yeah. This is definitely, like, by far the most media, the biggest build-up to a fight. I think, like, naturally, I've, it's, I'm ready for this. It's time, which is where my career has been going. it's constantly been elevating and this is a big fight and I feel like I'm ready for all this spotlight, but I also think it's part of being here in the UK.

I want to ask you about this fight, but you are a former U.S. Olympian, 2016 Olympics. It was recently announced that, or at least the events were listed for the L.A. Olympics in 2028. Right now, boxing is not listed on it. Now, we both know that can change, but what's your reaction to at least the potential that boxing could be eliminated from the Olympics. That's just insane. I mean, boxing was one of the first Olympic sports ever, right?

It's kind of like when they tried to take wrestling out. It's just you can't. You can't be adding these newer sports, like I think recently surfing, right? Which is cool and everything, but take out the OG of the Olympics, like which is boxing. So I think it's just a little bit of a scare tactic. There's some things that the organization needs to get together, you know, and it's probably for the best, honestly, and hopefully they take care of it, and they let these athletes back in.

What do the Olympics mean for your career? Like what kind of bounce did that give you as you start to look to the pros? Not even just me. I'm talking about this sport as a whole, especially for women. It allowing us to compete in the Olympics gave us the opportunity to compete at the highest level. And that was so important because that's the opportunity that the men had for years and decades and decades. And that's why they're at the level that they are. And people can say there's a huge talent gap between men and women.

But we're now able to compete at the highest level, compete in the Olympics. And that's what's going to continue to elevate the sport. I saw you last at the Taylor Serrano show. I haven't talked to you about that since then, but being there and being part of the biggest women's fight in history, seeing the reaction from the crowd, seeing the size of the crowd. Did that give you any kind of extra kind of push as you kind of looked at what you want to do in your career?

Oh, yeah, that pumped me up big time. And I'm feeling like this is, you know, maybe it's not to that extent just yet, but I am feeling like me versus bomb girls. runners has become a mega fight and obviously Shields and Marshall too and to have all three of these fights happen in one year time one year's time um god we don't even have to say anything it's just proof it's just facts like it is what it is women's boxing is here to stay did that i mean what you anticipated taylorano looking like and what it was like did that meet your expectations

did you exceed your expectations uh i knew it would be a huge fight i really did i genuinely believed it would be a massive fight i'm saying massive now that's how long i've been in the Okay. I really believed it. So I wasn't shocked, but definitely being there and just seeing that Madison Square Garden, the big room, like, sold out was, you know, it's one thing to believe in it. And then to be there, witness it and see it. It was definitely awesome. But I knew it.

I knew it was going to be great. So you've been a headliner on ESPN cards in the U.S. a few times now. This is the co-main event to Cloressaid Sevant and Marshall. This easily could have been a main event in the U.S. or anywhere else for that matter. talk to me about why you were okay with this being a co-main, why you wanted to be part of this card. What was that thinking like? First of all, yes, these two fights could have definitely stood on their own. But I'm trying not to get too caught up in the word comane.

Like I feel like this is a huge fight. I feel like the fans see this is a huge fight. And so I'm not going to let my ego get involved in that. But there's two things that I care about when I worry about these type of things and putting together a fight. Like my money, number one, like am I getting paid? what I feel like I deserve and are people going to see it? Is it going to be a big turnout? Is it going to be a great

entertaining fight and show? And I got both of those because my purse was negotiated before we decided to join forces with Shields Marshall. So that wasn't a concern of mine and it just made it even more possible for more people to see it. It made it even

on a bigger scale and a grander scale and it was awesome to me. I think it sounded like a great, I want to cuss right now, but I'm probably not going to. Oh yeah, don't. It's an awesome idea. It's badass. And I still believe that. Like, I'm glad I stuck to my guns on it because it's turning out to be really, really, really awesome.

You were allowed to curse on this show. Yes. Sergio Moore curses all the time when I talk to. Biggest fight of your career is this? Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, you'd be stupid. I don't know what Baumgartner is saying, but this is a huge fight. This is a huge, huge fight.

We've created this rivalry that is, I think, important for women's boxing. But, of course, for the entertainment factor. But there's some serious hardware on the line. Like, we both have these goals of going undisputed. And so this is either going to make or break that goal for one of us, her, not me. But I'm saying it's a massive fight and the biggest fight that we've ever, each one of us have ever been in. I don't know where the bad blood came from between you two because, like, you never,

you were calling out title holders, not necessarily who was holding those title right there. Like, when did you kind of, it kind of strike you that like, all right, maybe this girl really doesn't like me and maybe this is going to become like a, thing. She, I realized that when she started doing interviews after she won, like, she has not liked me for a long time. Like, I just found out about this girl in the pros. She's apparently, I've been on her radar for years and it makes sense because I was, I was on the national team number one in the amateurs coming up in the division that she was trying to make it at. And I never heard of her. So she's had it out for me for me for me for me for me for me for it's, it's, it wasn't personal. It's become a little personal obviously. But to me, it really was just about going after the championship. and making the biggest possible fights. For her, it was personal off the bat. What made it personal for you? Was it something that was said or something that evolved?

Just the back and forth, you know, I think that I feel like when I have spoken about her, it's me saying, like, let's fight. That's initially just how it started. Like, let's fight. Let's get this fight on for the fans. You're the champ now. Like, I'm coming for it. Like, I'm going to be undisputed.

I'm the best in this division. Just, you know, champ stuff. but her shit talk was a little bit like low blows like just basically trying to put me down and everything that I've accomplished not giving me any respect talking about dumb things like the way I look and things that are so irrelevant

and to me I can't respect that kind of trash talk like just speak facts so I don't know it feels like this is as I look at it from afar it feels like it's been framed like Rocky 3 in a way if you remember you know Mr. T like the person coming up the ranks that nobody appreciated, then you get framed as like Rocky with the silver spoon at this point.

Like, do you feel like you're getting treated like that? I wish I could relate to what you're saying, except I've never seen Rocky. Wait a minute. How has any of them? None of them. None of them. None of them. You know, I'm in the new one.

You are? Coming out. Me and Todd Grisham, we're calling it. We are the broad guy. How will use a boxer Nazi and Rocky movies? I just haven't. I don't know. Like, I remember vaguely seen.

This is now the headline of the show, by the way. No, I know. You never know with your reporters, right? Yeah. I remember vaguely seeing parts of him, like, chasing a chicken when I was a kid on the TV as I was walking past the living room. Like, I never sat down and watched these, so I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm sure you're right. All right. So I guess the way it is, like, she's the unheralded fighter that never got the opportunities and you're the pretty girl, so to speak, that gets all, like, the easy opportunities. She had all the opportunities that I had, if not more. She started boxing when she was 18, Chris. Okay. I didn't walk into boxing.

but I was 17 years old, first fight at eight. Sorry, when she was eight. She was eight. I walked in the gym at 17, took my first boxing fight at 18. Like, there were no opportunities for any of us, but we hustled and we made sure we showed up to those national tournaments and that we won because that was going to get you to where you wanted to be,

which was on an Olympic team on a national team. So that's what I did. I hustled and I grinded and I put everything into it. There was no opportunity. I don't know what her excuse is. She wants to make an excuse. Like I got to where I got out of like some luck or some privilege. But I didn't.

I grinded my ass to where I am right now. And she fell short. And she got her opportunity now. Yeah. Everyone in women's boxing had to grind. Especially when you came. I mean, it wasn't what it was in 2016 when you came out of the Olympics. There was no support for for pros at that point.

Nothing. When I first started boxing, there was no one was allowing us to compete in the Olympics. And pros weren't signing us. I don't even know what the hell I was thinking. And I was like just crazy just in love with the sport and figuring out I'd figure it out along the way. And that's what I did. Last couple of things.

You've studied her, obviously. Do you look at this as a difficult fight for you? Every fight for me, coming up to this point, is difficult in a big fight. Like, I'm not looking past anybody. I've told everybody that I have trained for a very, very tough, strong version of Baumgartner. But ultimately, my confidence level, I do believe I'm the greater, more complete fighter. And I do feel like I'm going to overwhelm her. If she does have the power that everyone's talking about,

then I got to be careful that I don't get countered and caught with that right hand. And I'm realistic about that. And I've come up with a strategy to try to avoid that. But we'll see when I get in there with her. You've said first few rounds is when she's dangerous. Like, how do you have to fight in those first few rounds? Is this going on before the fight or after the fight?

How careful do you have to be, I guess. This will be before the fights. I already give away too much. I'll say this. You guys know my style. I end up at some point in the fight. I take it to my fighter and I back them up. And that's my style.

And that's what Coach Al has always instilled in me because he wants me to be excited and he wants me to shut it out. So it's going to get to that point eventually. But I'm going to get her timey first. It feels like she wants to lure you into a dog fight. Like she wants to lure you into like a street fight out there. Oh, I don't think so.

That's what she keeps talking like, you guys. But she doesn't, she's not a dog like fighter. She does not lure people into street fights. This girl wants to stay at her perfect space encounter and catch you. This is the perfect example if you watch her last fight with Matisse. Matisse was levels below her, right?

Like, she should have gotten her out of there. But her plan is to catch you and counter you and land that perfect shot. And when she doesn't do that, she doesn't have that third, fourth gear. She doesn't put you on your back foot and back you up and get you up against the rope. She doesn't have that dog in her that,

I don't know where people are getting this. Where did you get it from? I mean, her? Her, yeah. I mean, look, everybody, and I think I was part of the broadcast of the Terry Harper fight. Yeah.

Every looks at that and the knockout was spectacular. The knockout of the year or one of anyway. And I think that's where a lot of it, if it does not, that's not where it comes from, it's why a lot of people believe it, because that punch put Terry Harper out on her feet. Yeah. I mean, she's got to land it. She's got to land it.

She's got to be set to land it. She's not the type like a Hamadush type who's going to push me back and overwhelm me with shots. That's more me. That was a tough fight. Yeah. That's what she really has to get ready for for me because if she can't land that right hand, she does have to go into a tough 10-round fight, which she's only been in one.

full 10 rounder, by the way. Then she's in foreign territory. Well, good luck, Michaela. And it's like a six or seven hour flight to get back. Would you please watch a couple of Rocky movies there? I mean, just like, find the best ones. Like one at least, and then like, don't watch five. Five's terrible.

Oh my God, there's five? There's like ten now. And this is one, Michael B. Jordan and all that stuff. Now you're graduate. So like one or two of them. All right, I got you. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fando. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where

you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years.

from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandoul. I really hope you have been betting with me consistently. Last week, I gave you two more winners. I said Andy Ruiz to win.

That was not a difficult pick. Andy Ruiz to win by decision, that one was those were good. Hope you got rich betting on Andy Ruiz. Had some shaky moments there, Ruiz. Where it looked like he was going to pick up a knockout. I guess not really shaky, but he was about to put Louis Sortez down early in that fight. But that one ended in a decision.

And for Andy Ruiz and Ruiz picks up the win. And hopefully you picked up a win as well. This week, the focus is on women's boxing. Cloressa Shields, Savannah Marshall, undisputed middleweight championship, a grudge match between Shields and the only women's boxer who has ever beaten her. Savannah Marshall topped Shields in the amateur ranks about 10 years to go. Now, this fight is very close. Oddsmakers have gone back and forth.

Right now, Shields is a slight favorite over at Fandul, but I think she's going to win. I like her a lot in this fight. Savannah Marshall is a big puncher, but I think Clarissa Shields is the better boxer here and should win a decision. That is my pick for Method. of victory as well. And that's where you can make a little bit of money. Clarissa Shields

by points or decision is plus 110. So it's not the greatest of odds. The best odds right now are shields by knockout, but I don't think Clarissa Shields has great power at 160. Certainly not enough to stop someone the caliber of Samantha Marshall.

I do think she wins something like a 7-3-8-2 type of decision because I think she is the better boxer. So this week take Clarissa Shields to win, take to win by decision. Those are my picks brought to you by Fanduel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Gareth A. Davies and Michaela Mayer for joining

the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite unhumored me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests

from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human

potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand

new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Boar Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.