The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Worth the Weight?

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Mannix and Keith Idec discuss Richardson Hitchins disputed decision win over Gustavo Lemos, whether the IBF's 10-pound rehydration is a good thing for boxing, Jared Anderson's turbulent year, a potential showdown between Claressa Shields and Alycia Baumgardner, more; later, Ryan Garcia on his history with Devin Haney, why the animosity between the two has ramped up and why the timing is right for the two longtime rivals to meet. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. This is boxing with Chris Manning. Oh, somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix.

That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you have talent, you have. are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. Want to welcome in, as always, those listening on the podcast feed.

If you are not a subscriber, get over to the Boxing with Chris Manix feed, hit that subscribe button. Make sure you don't miss a single episode of this show every week. We got a good one for you today. Keith Ideck is back. Longtime boxing writer, good friend of the podcast. Keith and I look back on what was a surprisingly competitive, 140-pound matchup between Richardson Hitchens and Gustavo Lamos.

We talk about Jared Anderson, the heavyweight contender who is back in action this weekend. Jared has had a bunch of stuff going on outside the ring that has overshadowed what he's been doing inside the ring. And after watching Cloressa Shields and Alicia Baumgartner go nose to nose after the zone show last week, we talk about the viability of a Shields Baumgartner matchup a little bit later on this year. Later in the show, Ryan Garcia is back. Now, this was a sit-down. Ryan and I did for DeZone this past month. This was during the press tour for his fight with Devin Haney,

which is just like 10 days away. It's crazy. So we didn't get into some of the stuff that's gone on over the last couple of weeks, the social media stuff. We didn't get into that. But we do talk about his history with Devin Haney, why this fight has become more personal than most expected, and why he believes, despite what others think,

that he is in a great place headed into that fight. So stick around. Great conversation with Ryan Garcia. Before we get to that, I do want to briefly address something that happened during the DeZone broadcast this past weekend.

During the fight between Diego Pacheco and Sean McCallman, I approached David Benavides about doing an interview. David is a stablemate of Diego Pacheco. Pacheco is trained by David's father, Jose Benavita Sr. So it was natural to want to get his take

on what was going on in the ring. He said yes. So I sat down next to him for what was planned to be a quick one-on-one. I did not know at the time that David had been drinking, which became clear as soon as he started answering

some of the questions. And I had to kind of make a decision in that moment. I didn't want to bail out after just one question because I thought that might embarrass him and I didn't want to do that. Maybe I should have hindsight's 2020,

but I decided to ask the three quick ones and then get out. I mean, the entire interview was less than a minute. The plan was to go a little bit longer to asking about Canello and to get a thought on the future fight against Pacheco, who is a rising star in his weight class.

The three short questions felt to me like the cleanest way out. Now, I'm only talking about this because David went on social, media and apologize to his fans. And look, honestly, he really has nothing to apologize for. He's allowed to have some drinks and have a good time. Most of the people at the fight were having some drinks and having a good time. He doesn't have a fight scheduled yet. He wasn't behaving in an inappropriate way. The mistake that was made was putting him in that position,

putting him on air. And I message David first thing the next day to apologize for putting him in that position. He was great about it. We had a laugh, but what can happen when, you know, you mix certain drinks together. And look, anyone that listens to the show knows I am a huge fan of David Benavides, both as a fighter and of how he conducts himself outside the ring. He is a professional, as professional as they come, which is why I hated some of the grief that he caught on social media on Saturday. It was just a bad moment that shouldn't have happened. And if there was time to have had some small talk with him before the interview, it wouldn't have happened. I would never intentionally put David in that position.

It was just a fast-moving live TV moment that unfortunately played out the way it did. So David is going to be just fine. He's probably going to fight Alexander Vostik. He'll probably back on this show before that fight in June. So, you know, I think people that are criticizing David Benavides need to leave him alone, basically. He was having a good time at a social event. And it was just a fast-moving live TV moment that unfortunately played out the way it did.

All right, when we come back, my conversation with Keith Ideck. So if you're like me, you have had a difficult ticket buying experience in the past. I'm a Boston guy, and I'm always looking for opportunities to go to Bruins games. Game time is the absolute must-have app

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Download the GameTime app today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed, you can't beat it. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skis. gets, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right.

Keith Ideck is here. Longtime boxing writer. a good friend of the podcast or as he texted me last night, BFF of the podcast. And Keith, I think that is an accurate moniker for you. You are a BFF of the podcast. We'll be sending you a T-shirt and or a gift certificate with that notation. Fantastic. All right, Keith, I want to start with the competitive fight we saw in Las Vegas last weekend

between Richardson Hitchens and Gustavo L. Lamos. Hitchens came in with a lot of momentum, a lot of accolades as being one of the best pure boxers, at least in that way class, maybe in all of boxing. He was being lined up for a world title shot at some point later this year. Gustavo Lamos came in relative unknown. Had fought exclusively in Argentina. His most notable win came against Lee Selby, and that was at the very end of Lee Selby's career. So we didn't know what we're going to get out of Gustavo Lamos in this fight. It turned out we got a lot out of Gustavo Lamos because he came and took the fight to Hitchens, fought extremely well for stretches during this fight, first couple of rounds, last three or four,

winds up on the losing end of a unanimous decision. We'll get into that in a moment. Well, let's start with the performance of Hitchens, who came into this fight saying this was going to be like a robbery. It was going to be a whitewash. And, you know, he struggled in this fight. What did you make of his performance and the fight in general. Look, he overcame some adversity in the fight, and I know going into the fight, it's something that you had spoken with Sergio and I think Corey last week on the podcast about wanting to see how he would respond to some real adversity in a fight. So in some ways, you saw him go through some things against a guy who could punch, who was pressuring him, who's better than people realized probably. So in that way,

we did learn something about Richardson Hitchens in a positive way, but we also might have learned something about him in a negative way and that maybe he's not nearly as good as we thought in terms of being an elite guy in the 140 pound division because, you know, by becoming, by winning this Eliminator and putting himself in position to fight Subaru Matias, that's not a fight that I would want if I were him or his handlers right now because of what happened on Saturday night. So we did learn some things on the positive and negative side about Richardson Hitchens. He won the fight on the scorecards. You could certainly argue that he lost the fight. I think you had it scored for Gustavo Lemos, who fought well and deserves a lot of credit.

As we've learned many, many times, Chris, just going through the years with these guys from South America that we're not all that familiar with. Some guys even less familiar with them than we were with him, because, like you said, he had fought Lee Selby, at least. Some of these guys, you know, Ricardo Torres came out of Columbia out of nowhere and almost knocked out Miguel Cotto once upon a time. You know, of course, the Argentinian fighters have done it. There's been so many of them, and Marcos Medanos, Medana, and Brian Castanio and

others from Argentina as well. So good for him coming and showing up and fighting the way that he did. And it's unfortunate when a guy who's in his position who could get a title shot by winning this fight loses a fight that you could certainly argue that he won because you have to wonder how it's going to go for him now that he has to get back in line. And now people know how dangerous he is. They're not going to be in a hurry to fight him. On Hitchin specifically, I thought we learned that he still got a ways to go, right? Like, I thought he boxed brilliantly against Jose Zapata. I did have an issue with him not going for a finish against Epita, but he showed

great movement, athleticism, and outbox the former World Title Challenger, shutting him out on the scorecards against a younger and fresher version maybe of Jose Zepeda. He struggled, man. He just struggled. Like, you know, Lamos, there was, he was a bull to China shop in there. And he was just going after Hitchens from the opening bell. And, you know, Hitchens, even though I thought he did a nice job adjusting to that pressure in the middle rounds, got his jab going, was an accurate puncher throughout the course of the fight. He did a lot of holding in that fight.

He faced adversity multiple times in that fight. I looked out of his feet in the eighth round of that fight. And that told me that, you know, if you put in Hitchens right now with a Superiel Matias, who he is now next in line for, that's probably not going to go well. Richardson Hitchens, because everything that Gustavo Lemos can do, that stuff that Subreal Matias can do as well. I know Matias is not invincible. He's got a loss on his resume as well, but he's a very, very dangerous guy if you're not going to be able to stand your ground and punch and you can't figure out what to do when he's coming at you in the way that Lamos came at you. The one aspect of this, Keith, that I think is worth discussing is the trouble

that Hitchens seems to have with the IBF's 10-pound rehydration clause. This is not new. Hitchens has talked about this in the past, having difficulty with the IBF clause, which for people that don't know, requires fighters that fight for one of their titles, and this was for a secondary version of the IBF belt,

it requires them to not only weigh in at the weight on Friday, the day before the fight, but you have to come in within 10, pounds by, what is it, the morning, early afternoon of the fight itself. And Hitchens has had a problem with that. I mean, Hitchens, you know, people around him after the fight were telling me, like, it was difficult for him just to come within that 10 pounds the morning after the way in. And, you know, for a fighter, you don't want to be worried about weight once you make the weight. You want to go about your business, rehydrate as much as you want. I mean, some

guys rehydrate to huge numbers. Devin Haney, most recently, went up 20-something pounds in his fight against Regis Progray. That's just what happens with some fighters. I think Hitchens, if left to his own devices, would probably rehydrate in the same way or similar to Devin Haney. So if I'm Richardson Hitchens and I'm evaluating my career, yes, I would want that world title shot. I would want to fight Subriela-Math-Matias for the IBF belt. But if I'm not certain that I can make that second day rehydration limit, I don't know. Maybe I'd go a different direction. He's highly ranked in some of the other sanctioning bodies, not like the IBF, but he's up there in some other sanctioning bodies. What do you think his play is here? Does he barrel forward and take that IBF title fight if offered? Or does he say, you know what? I'm not going to be able to be 100% if I have to fight Subrio Matias. And if I'm not, that's going to end very badly for me. Yeah, I don't know that I would favor him against any of the 140 pound champions, Chris. So it's a tough position for them to.

be in. I mean, I wouldn't think he would beat Esauk Cruz. I don't think he would beat Devin Hayne, who I expect to be Ryan Garcia. I don't think he would- But is Teafimo the one? Like, Teufimo tends to have trouble with that style, right? Like, we've seen him have some trouble with, you know, Sandra Martine. We saw him have some trouble with the way Jermaine Ortiz fought. I think Teafimo might be the one guy that Hitchens could give trouble to right now. He could, but I would certainly favor Tiafimo Lopez in that fight. And he's not the, like he said, he's not the mandatory for that belt. Look, whatever the rehydration situation is, I would heavily favor Subrio Matias to win that fight because he's just

a murderous puncher who wears people down and takes people out. Look what he did to Ergachev in his last fight. Ergarshev was a big self. Hadn't fought someone as good as Matias, of course, but he started off that fight very strong, and he was hitting Matthias at will. Matias took everything that he had and then just laid a beat down on George, Yerghev, that. No one really expected. I don't think people are surprised at Matias won. I think people were mostly surprised that he won so quickly and so dominantly. That was a no-mas moment there for Ergishab at the end.

Erggev was just worn out. And he just said, man, this guy just won't stop coming forward. He's so heavy-handed. And I think that's going to happen when Matthias fights most guys. Because he avenged his one loss. We were all surprised that night when he lost on the wilder fury undercar. And then he came back and the rematch by technical knockout. He was dominant in that fight for the most part.

So, so Matthias is a tough ask for anyone. And then you throw this rehydration situation into the mix and it makes it even more difficult. I would say, though, Chris, I really wish that the WBA, the WBC and the WBO would follow suit. Because I like this IBF rule because too often we have guys that are 20, 25 pounds heavier in the ring with the guy that they're fighting. That just shouldn't be. That's why weight classes exist. I understand they can't go.

I don't think it's safe necessarily to go back to weighing in the morning of the fight because you don't have enough time to rehydrate. That's not healthy either probably, but maybe it's healthier than what they're doing when you have a 25 pound weight advantage for one fighter. That shouldn't exist. So this at least limits that a little bit. It doesn't eliminate it because these second day weigh-ins typically, let's just say the fights in Las Vegas, It happens sometime between 9 and 11 a.m. Pacific time. And then they have somewhere between 10 and 12 hours, if they're fighting in the main event, to still rehydrate. They can still rehydrate.

It gives them less time to do that. And I have to show some discipline, of course, in meeting that 10-pound cap the next morning. So it's a step in the right direction to making it more fair. But I like it. And if fighters can't adhere to it, you don't belong. fighting in the weight class anyway, so just move up. Yeah, I think that's a reasonable position. You know, it's not healthy to gain 20 some odd pounds in less than 24 hours. It's just not. I remember being in California when Zerda Ramirez fought at light heavyweight, and when he

weighed in the evening of the fight, he was, was it 29 pounds above the light heavyweight limit? That's insane. In no world is that healthy. Now, I understand the thinking that that can give you an advantage in a fight. If you're effectively a heavyweight, fighting a light heavyweight, then yeah, that is a advantage that you're going to have. But it shouldn't be. Like, we build these fights as 140-pound title fight, 175-pound title fight.

When the reality is they're not, you've got two guys that are oftentimes in very different weight classes, that IBF rule. it mitigates that. It makes you rehydrate in a healthy way or at your normal weight or else you are going to be in the position that Richardson Hitchens was in this past Saturday night. And look, I know guys that win IBF titles,

one of their first priorities is not to defend the title but to try to unify. Because if you unify, that's when the IBF rule goes out the window. They don't enforce that policy if two belts or three belts are on the line so you don't have to worry about that in those situations. So, yeah, I like the IBF rule, but it does need to become a universal rule. It needs to be adopted by the three other sanctioning bodies to make it effective.

So the playing field is overall level. We have to talk about the scoring of that fight. As you said, I scored the fight 115, 113 in favor of Gustavo Lamos. I lean more towards the activity, the power punching. I thought his body work was a lot better. could understand the scoring of the two judges that at 115, 113 for Hitchens, because there were so many razor-th thin rounds. I mean, Keith, I look at the last four rounds, according to copy box, beginning with the ninth.

Ninth round, Lamos outlanded Hitchens, 13 to 10. 10th round, dead even, 21 punches landed a piece. 11th round, dead even. 15 punches landed a piece. 12th round. Lamos, 11 punches landed, Hitchens 10. So that is the very definition of a close and competitive fight. I did not get the Tim Cheatham scorecard, which was 117, 111 in favor of Richardson Hitchens. That to me gave Hitchens every single benefit of the doubt and did not reward Lamos enough for the work he was doing throughout the fight. What did you think of the scoring of this fight?

Yeah, I thought 117, 111 was entirely too wide, Chris. But as you said, you made a really good point. Some of these extremely slim margins that these guys are winning these rounds by make those rounds difficult to score. So I would like to cut Tim Cheatham some slack in this case because some of those rounds were so close. But there is a pattern from Tim Cheatham, unfortunately, where he's always, almost always, a round or two different than the other two judges. And oftentimes he gets the highest profile assignments in fights that are scored in Nevada with Steve Weisfeld, David Sutherland, sometimes Max DeLuca, previously Dave Moretti before they kind of stopped using Moretti in the highest profile fights now after what happened last year. But he's always a round or two off from those guys. And it's it's happened enough where it's not every single fight, but it's a pattern of behavior.

And I just don't know why that is. I mean, he's always, if someone has it, one 15, 113, he inevitably has it at least 1, 16, 112, sometimes 117, 111. In this case, you know, that it's two rounds different from Max DeLuca and Steve Weisfeld. So I don't know why that is, but I'd also have to ask the Nevada State Athletic Commission. I don't have anything personally against Tim Chita. I'm sure he's a nice person and all that, but you're affecting people's careers here and maybe mix up the judging pool a little bit. done a good job more so in the last couple of years in Nevada, Chris, as opposed to what they had previously done, only using Nevada-based judges. They have gone outside of Nevada. Steve Weisfeld

is from New Jersey, Matt Lucas from California, David Sutherland, from Oklahoma. But let's try to find some younger judges that are also competent and have proved themselves in championship caliber fights to maybe mix it up a little bit because you can't have the same three or four judges scoring all these fights and then have one judge in particular who always seems no matter who's fighting, no matter which promoter it is, which network it's on to favor one fighter by a round or two more than the other two judges. It just doesn't add up. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, and Weissfeld's scoring, you know, because I consider Steve to be the best judge in boxing nationally, maybe globally. He scored the first and the 12th round for Richardson Hitchens. I scored the first

to 12th round for Gustavo Lamos. So there was the discrepancy between Steve and I on the scorecards. But I can understand that because they were really close. Like they were, the first round was separated by, I want to say, four punches in favor of Richardson Hitches. The power punches certainly favored Lamos in that round, eight rounds to two in the first. But the fighters overall were separated by just 11 landed punches throughout the course of this fight.

It was a very close fight. I just think 117, 111 just doesn't give enough credit for the work rate that Lamos was putting out there, the way he was being aggressive. And frankly, the amount of holding that Hitchens were doing. I'm a big fan of Ring generalship during fights, but I didn't think that was ring generalship. That was just a lot of holding to try to blunt the momentum of Gustavo Lamos during this fight. When it comes to Lamos, I was very happy to hear Eddie Hearn's reaction to the fight. because Eddie Hearn, one of the first things he said in the post-fight interview was, we got to get Lamos back.

We got to give him another opportunity because even in defeat, however controversial, he proved that he is a fighter on this level. And maybe even more important, he proved that he is a television-friendly fighter. And Eddie Hearn has a whole bunch of guys in the 140-pound division. He can fight him in the U.S. against one of his guys here. He can go over to the U.K. Dalton Smith is out there looking for an opponent, presumably, you know,

for the middle of the year. That's a terrific fight over in the UK. Again, I didn't know what to expect from Lamos coming in because I just didn't know what to make of his resume. But after watching him for one full fight going 12 rounds with Richardson Hitchens, that's a guy with potential Keith. That's a guy that can win, I think, some big fights. Yeah, and he's in the prime of his physical prime right now. And let's hope that Eddie does follow through on what he said because you hate to see guys come from these extremely impoverished environments, Chris, where, you know, this is their shot, man. This is it.

This is where they change their life, you know, or hopefully they change their life, you know. And then when the decisions don't go their way, and I'm not saying that, you know, I don't know if he was robbed necessarily. I mean, if it was a close fight, but you could certainly argue that he won the fight. And when a guy who comes from where he came from loses the fight, you just hope somebody does right by him somewhere down the line. Mine. Maxie Hughes didn't come from an impoverished nation. He came from England. But when Maxie Hughes lost to George Cambosis, he got an opportunity now was a really tough fight against William Zepeda. Yeah, but at least he got a bit. I know you mean. He was overwhelmed by Zepeda, who's very good, obviously. But it was a double eliminator and, you know, it was a real opportunity for him in his next fight after Cambosis. So you like to see that. It wasn't the same promoter, obviously. It was a golden boy card. And he lost.

on a top rank card, but you at least like to see a guy get another opportunity when you feel that they were wrong because I really felt like Maxie Hughes beat George Camos. It's again, a close fight, but I thought that he won. So at least he wasn't put on the shelf. The fight was seven or eight months later, but it wasn't like he had to wait three or four years for another opportunity. Yeah, and I hope he, Gustavo Lamos, gets won very quickly. I think there's enough available fights for him, either in the U.S. or the U.S.

UK to give him that opportunity. If you already Hearn, like, that's a guy that makes good TV. I mean, he didn't get a win in the same way that, you know, Maricio Alara got that big win against Josh Warrington. But Maricio Lara was effectively discovered when he was put in as an opponent for Josh Warrington. And he got a win. But Lamos, that to me was just as effective as a win.

He proved he can fight on this level. He proved he can be entertaining. he's still young enough to be considered a kind of a quasi-prospect. You can do something with him if he starts to put some wins together. So I think it's a good idea to bring him back

and see what you can make of him moving forward. All right, Keith, let's talk about Jared Anderson, who will take on Riyadh-Marie this weekend in Texas. On paper, Keith, there is a lot to like about Jared Anderson. He's 24. He's undefeated. He's got 16 wins.

15 of them come by knockout. The only guy to the distance with him was Charles Martin, a former champion himself. He's gotten the Roy Jones seal of approval for whatever that's worth. But he's been getting in some trouble of late. Two days after his fight with Murhe, he has a court date connected to an incident in February where he led police on a six-mile car chase before crashing into a meeting. He's also been arrested for improperly handling a firearm and for driving while intoxicated.

On top of that, he's often made it clear in interviews that he doesn't really love boxing, that he's in it for the money and that he hopes to get out of the game as early as age 27. Now, Bob Aram has come up this week and said, I still believe. I still think this is the guy that can become the next great heavyweight. Do you share Bob's opinion of Jared Anderson or do you have a different one? Well, in fairness to Bob, what is he supposed to say, right? I know you're well aware of that too, but I mean, what is he supposed to say? I'm sure that, you know, in the office internally, they're very concerned about Jared Anderson,

because this is a, this is not a one instance. Chris, this is a pattern of behavior. He's been arrested twice in the last, I don't know, five months, six of, he was arrested in November and he was arrested again last month. So it's a problem. I'm much more concerned about what, with what's going on with Jared Anderson outside of the ring than what's happening inside of the ring. Now, he showed some vulnerability in the Chris, in the Charles Martin fight. You know, he took that fight willingly on very short notice. I think it was 10 days notice. when Martin came in for a right-handed fighter who pulled out of the fight, Kasabutski. So it was noble of him, I guess, to some degree to fight a strong Southpaw, who had

whatever anyone thinks of Charles Martin had owned one of the heavyweight titles and was a big puncher, a big, tall, strong South Paul who can punch. And Charles Martin exploited some flaws in Jared Anderson's defense in that fight and buzzed them twice in the fight. And Jared Anderson withstood that, fought through it, and came. back and won the fight comfortably on all three scorecards. So I thought we learned something pretty positive about Jared Anderson that night last July in that fight. Now, they've been very careful about matching him since then because of what happened in that fight, of course, right?

I had the Andre Redenko fight with the guy was 39, 40 years old and had been knocked out before. So, and in this fight, okay, well, he beat Tony Yoka in his last fight, but Tony Yoka had lost his previous two fights, so I don't know how much an accomplishment that is at this point. this is and I don't mean this in a negative way. This is just a fact. This is typical matchmaking the way that top rank does it. And they're maybe the most masterful matchmaking company in the entire sport. They know what they're doing.

And they're not going to unnecessarily put Jared Anderson in the ring with a risky opponent when it's not necessary at this point. We saw what happened. He fought Charles Martin. There's no real point to him fighting someone who has the chance to beat him right now with the type of purses that are being made available to him for these ESPN or ESPN plus fights right now at this stage of his career. career. The question I would have if I'm top rank, Chris is what's going to happen after this fight? Presumably he's going to win on Saturday night, right? So he wins, but then what happens in the months thereafter? Not only with this pending court case, but I don't know what's going on with Jared Anderson, and I hope that he's okay, but the way he's behaving would indicate that he's not.

I mean, I read, I think it was Mike Poppinger, wrote a very detailed story based on the police report from what happened in Michigan. It's pretty wild stuff he was doing. I mean, evading the police for seemingly old. To paraphrase, he was evading the police. And then when he had evaded the police, he came back, right? He turned around and came back and was, I forget the phrasing of it, but he was almost playing a cat and mouse game with them.

So it was a very bizarre incident that just kind of screamed, this guy's got some issues here. this guy's got some issues he's dealing with. Yeah, and in the previous incident, he was under some sort of influence when he was arrested the, which was also a motor vehicle situation. So, I don't know. Gun was involved too, you know. Right.

There was a weapon involved in the November incident. You just hope that the guy's okay. I mean, this is a very abnormal way to make a living. And I know, you know, we talk about it and write about it for a living and everything. But imagine if you were getting punched in the head for a living. You don't know the. the effect, we know the long-term effects of it are never good. You know, maybe in the short term, it's really affecting him in a negative way too, because this is really troublesome behavior from

Jared Anderson over these past few months. I've, you know, in my own dealings with him, I don't have anything personal against him. I sincerely doubt he has anything personal against me. He would never really have, but he's a moody guy. I mean, that's the way I found him to be. Now, that's fine. I mean, whatever. It is what it is. But, But this is beyond being moody and a little difficult, like, who really care? If he's a little difficult for me to interview or for you to interview, no one cares about that. It is what it's the job. We just deal with it and move forward.

It's not the end of the world. It is what it is. You know, he just, that's fine. But now his behavior is becoming much more problematic for everyone that's involved in his career. Forget, you know, reporters who talk to him once every three or four months. It's sort of irrelevant. But now these are real issues. And I just hope whatever help that Jared Anderson needs, I hope that he's getting it.

and it would seem that he needs some help. Is the, I don't love boxing stuff, a red flag for you, because when I hear that, where my mind goes is to wondering what happens when this guy needs to dig deep, right? Because it's one thing to be coming up the ranks, knocking guys out that are significantly inferior to you from a talent perspective. but at some point when you get to a championship level, you are going to face real adversity.

You are going to get knocked down. You are going to be hurt. It's inevitable. It happens to every fighter. And when I hear a fighter say that he doesn't really love the game and I want to be out of the game at age 27, that makes me wonder how they're going to respond when that level of adversity hits.

Now, it's easy for me to sit here and say, Got to dig deep, got to overcome punches. I'm not the one facing Anthony Joshua or Tyson Fury or Philip Hergevich or Alexander Usik, whoever he might be facing at that level at that time. But that's part of the job, like having to overcome that type of adversity. When he says stuff like, I don't love the game, does that raise any red flags for you? It depends on how you look at it, Chris, because I think he did dig deep against Charles Martin. I mean, his career could have come apart that night very easily if Charles Martin

would have been able to follow up on hurting him and wound up knocking him out. I mean, his career as an ascending heavyweight contender would have been over in effect. So I thought he showed something in that fight. You know, you don't love hearing that, but at the same time, he's being brutally honest. I mean, the guy does, I don't know, you know, there's some maniacs involved in this sport, obviously, because you got to have, you'd have to have a couple of screws loose to do this for a living, you know, it's for sure. Um, uh, he, so. So, So in that respect, I mean, who would love it? You know, I mean, you're getting punched in that. Even if you're really good at it, you're getting punched in the head and you know you're doing some long-term damage to yourself. So in some way, I almost appreciate that Jared Anderson's being honest. You know, he's saying, I don't, I'm doing this because I want to try to make a better life for my family and get out of this with my faculties intact and try to make a better life for them in the short term. Now, this is going at such a snail's pace for him now because of what's going. on with the heavyweight titles and what's on the horizon for Tyson Fury and

Alexander Usick and Anthony Joshua and all that. He's not going to get a title shot anytime soon. So I think we're going to continue seeing him fight comparable levels of opponents that he's fighting on Saturday night and that he fought in his last fight. I don't know what that's doing for him necessarily except padding his record. And he is being paid six figure purses. I mean, it's not like he's, you know, it's not like he's struggling financially. But to get to the types of pay days that he wants, it's going to take a while. So he's going to have to fight beyond 27 years old, whether he likes it or not.

So that's something that he's going to have to determine himself. And again, if this pattern of behavior outside of the ring continues, well, that decision is going to be made for him because eventually he's going to do something that's going to land him in jail or worse. Yeah, I'm all for getting out of the game early, that's for sure, especially if you're a heavyweight, especially if you wind up taking the kind of punishment heavyweights take at the highest of levels.

But to get to that point, to your point, where you're getting out of the game, you've got to win these high little fights, and you have to face adversity in these high little fights. I'm reminded of, you know, the Anthony Joshua Vladimir Klitsko fight back in, what was in 2017, I believe.

That was a fight where AJ had to dig deep. He got knocked down by the former heavyweight champion, one of the best heavyweights of this era. He got up and he knocked Vladimir Klitsko out. That was and remains the best win of Anthony Joshua's career. But it was after that fight where everything kind of changed for AJ. He was not the same fighter after that. He went to people on his team and said,

I don't want to be that kind of fighter anymore where I'm in these kind of knocked down drag out brawls because I don't want to be, you know, a messed up fighter or messed up ex-fighter down the line. So, and look, AJ has not had to dig deep like that since. I don't know. A lot of people kind of point to the Andrew Ruiz loss as the fight that changed Anthony Joshua.

It wasn't that. It was the Klitsko fight that changed Anthony Joshua. and we haven't seen him need to dig deep to get a win since then. He's on a four-fight winning streak, but he's beaten competition. He's been comfortable being able to beat competition that's not on that level. I just wonder what happens when Jared Anderson gets to that moment where it's like he's facing an AJ or he's facing, I don't even know, like a Hergovich, a young guy that he might potentially face in the next couple of years.

And he gets knocked down because he get up and have. that same kind of response that AJ did back in 2017. That to me remains an open question when it comes to Jared Anderson. So, yeah, Chris, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I just think it's going to be a while before we get any answer to that question. I think he's going to fight again, a comparable opponent in his next fight, assuming everything from a legal perspective enables him to continue fighting. So I don't think we're going to find out for quite some time. What does the heavyweight scene look like in five years anyway. Like, who are the prospects that are out there?

I mean, most of these guys are over the age of 30, at least, some of them coming in closer to 40. I'm just looking at some of the rankings right now. I mean, when they tend to emerge from the Olympics, there's always some of the- I guess. I guess, but who is in that Jared Anderson kind of class? Like, who do you put him in? I don't know, like, among young Americans, there's not really in.

Young American, even young European, I mean, I guess you look. could Jalal off as someone down the line that he could wind up fighting. Dubois is still pretty young. If he can find a way to win a heavyweight title, that's probably a pretty good fight for Jared Anderson at some point in the next couple of years. But the landscape looks kind of bleak right now, Keith, for the heavyweight to the next couple of years. Yeah, and for Anderson specifically, you know, he's going to want a title shot.

He's not going to want to fight someone with Daniel Dubois because it could be a dangerous, you know, of course depends on what happens. And Dan Dubois's next fight and all that, I understand. but, you know, David, Du Bois could be tied up too. Like, I mean, one of the scenarios, and I'm sure you've heard it as well, like is Daniel Dubois fighting Philip Hergevich for a vacant IBF belt? And then if a Fury AJ fight can't be made,

then A.J would fight the winner of Hergevich Dubois for the IBF belt. So Dubois might be tied up for the next 18 months or so. It eliminates another potential option for that. That's what I mean. There aren't many guys that will be available to, Jared Anderson because they either hold heavyweight titles or are going to be fighting for heavyweight titles. So why would they fight Jared Anderson? He's in a weird position because he's got a great platform.

He's got a great promoter, very, you know, one of the best management teams in the sport and everything. But who's going to fight anytime soon that will really resonate with the public? How about Michael Hunter? He's always looking for a fight. Fight Michael Hunter. I think they've tried that, actually. Yeah, I believe so. Yeah.

I saw Michael Hunter's last fight. He fought some guy that was huge. this guy was very, very big. And Michael's been out there chasing a fight forever. So I've just thrown his name into the Bix. But there you go. There's one name. Once beaten Michael Hunter, former U.S. Olympian, make it in the USA.

All right, let's finish your Keith in the women's division. On Saturday, Clarissa Shields was part of his own broadcast. Also, ringside was Alicia Baumgartner, the undisputed 130-pound champion. Now, these two women have had a bit of a social. media beef going on for the better part of the last year where they've been firing shots back and forth talking about fighting while that spilled over into real life where as soon as the broadcast ended, Clarissa Shields got up confronted Alicia Baumgart and it became

this big thing ringside. Clarissa Shields is a former champion at 168, 160, and 154. Alicia Baumgartner, I believe the highest she has fought is 130. She's the undisputed champion at 130 pounds. A lot of talk about these two fighting each other. There's obviously bad blood. It's a makeable fight since Baumgartner is affiliated with Eddie Heron and DeZone, Glorice Shields, kind of a free agent. Is this a viable fight to you? Like, there's a pretty big weight difference between these two women. Is this a realistic fight that we could see at some point? You know, unfortunately, Chris,

I don't think that it is. The rivalry has been great. And there are a lot of things in terms of building a promotion that make perfect sense. They're the same age. I believe They're both 29 years old. They're both from Michigan. There's clearly something like there. Clarissa Shields thinks that Alicia Baumgartner is a cheater. She has been very vocal about that. She had her own PED issue with Hannah Gabriel's last year.

And she's been, you know, she's been very adamant about the fact that people need to do comprehensive drug testing her whole career. So, so Clarissa's. Can I guys point out, Keith, that like, when Baumgartner first released her statement, where she kind of self-vindicated herself. Clarissa Shields one of the first ones to congratulate her on that. So this whole beef kind of began when Baumgartner said, I want to fight Clarissa, I think I can beat her.

And Clarissa kind of takes everything personally. She got to nodded her and it all of a sudden sort of snowballed from there. But go ahead. Sorry. Well, she's the quote, obviously. And she didn't take kindly to that. But look, I understand Clarissa's perspective. look, you're 25, 20 pounds.

I think Baumgartner, the high, she has fought it light, technically, she has fought it lightweight a couple of times. I think she weighed like 133 or 134 or something like that for a couple of her fights, but she's really a 30-pounder, right? Clarissa has never weighed in less than 153 and like two, three quarters or something like that

for her fight against Ivana Habizan, I think it was, it was the lowest that she's ever weighed. So that's 20 plus pounds apart, basically. there's no middle ground there that makes any kind of sense because as Clarissa gets older, it's not going to be realistic for her to come down any more and wait than 154. And she's joked around with me and other people in the past that she would have to cut off body parts and everything to get any lower. You know, she really would have liked to have fought Katie Taylor because they're two big stars. You know, Katie's a big star.

And, you know, it would have been a fight where if they came together on the weight, although it would have been a big disadvantage, I think, for Katie Taylor to come up multiple a great class. and then Cloressa's killing herself to get down to 47 or whatever, wherever they might have thought. I understand like Clarissa brings up all of these fights because she's already fought everyone that she can fight for the most part, right? I mean, she's already beaten Savannah Marshall. There are people who think on Cloresa's team and on Savannah Marshall's team that they

will eventually fight again. And I think there would be interest in that fight because it was reasonably competitive, although I think everyone agrees that Cloresa won the fight. But there's no one really. for her to fight. I mean, she's very good friends with Cruz discern. She's not going to fight her again. They already fought. I mean, she fought her in her

pro debut. So she's not going, they're not going to fight now that she's beaten she's the 168 pound champion again. They're not going to fight again, you know? So it certainly doesn't seem like they're going to fight again. So who is, the rest is looking at it.

Like, well, who am I going to fight? Near this natural rivalry here, it's been, you know, ramped up on social media and all that kind the stuff. But I don't think it's a realistic fight that could happen because they're just too far apart and wait and it's not really safe for Clarissa to go any lower than 154, I don't think, especially as she's 29 now. She's not, you know, 23, 24 trying to do that type of stuff. I don't think it's a big deal for Baumgartner to come up because, you know, women do that a lot, right? Like you look at that's a lot, man. Well, I mean, I mean, Baumgardner became a star knocking out Terry Harper. Two fights after

Terry Harper got knocked up by Bumgarder at 130, she moved up and won a title at 154. So, like, it's happened. I mean, Michaela Mayer went from 130 to 147 in a couple of fights. Like, it all depends on the body type, sure. But I don't think it's that big a deal for Bumgarder to go up to 147-ish, right? And I say ish, because I think there might be a middle ground there. Like, let's, I would agree with you. Coloresa going down to 147, probably not a good idea.

Can you make 150? If you do it a catch weight at 150? maybe, you know, it's such a big fight. There might be enough money to make it worth it for both these women. Because frankly, I don't know where either one of them goes right now. I mean, at the moment, Bum Gardner is locked into a title defense against Delfine Pursune. That's a tough fight. Delphine Pursune is a good fighter.

And that'll be Bumgarner's first fight in about a year. So she's going to take that fight. Clarissa is out there doing an MMA right now. Like she doesn't have anyone. She's as tied. to Savannah Marshall as Savannah Marshall as a boxer is tied to her. So Floresa's got to be looking around at the landscape between 154 and 168 and saying, what am I going to do? Where is the money? How do I earn as a boxer in these weight classes?

Baumgartner is the best chance you can. I mean, you mentioned the geography, both these women from Michigan. Like, you could probably do a pretty good crowd at Little Seas Arena or someplace along those lines. You could probably do a get a good license fee from DeZone. I agree. There are challenges to it, Keith, but I would knock it off the table. Not if they can come to an agreement on a catchweight that is somewhere in the low 150s. Yeah, and again, that might be one of her only options, Chris, because if Shadasia Green would have beaten Franchon Cruz Dissern, that would have been a fight. I think Loresa would have moved back up to 168 and taken that fight.

And there would have been a lot of interest in that fight for obvious reasons, but she lost. So it took another option away from her. And again, she's not going to fight Cruz Dezerne again. I certainly don't get that impression. And she already beat her. They both said they'll do it, but they want like, back up the Brinks trucks type of type of stuff. And that's just not going to happen.

Where is that truck coming from exactly? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I understand what, you know, they're friendly and they want to be compensated properly in their minds to make the fight happen. But she already beat her. It's not like there.

I was there that night. I believe you were too on the Andre Ward, Kovalev undercardway. It was a long time ago now. but seven and a half years ago or whatever, but she already beat her, and it wasn't controversial. So there's no real need for them to fight again, to be honest.

No, I'm with you. I just, I think her and Bumgarner is interesting. And for both of them, there really isn't a lot of interesting action out there. You know, I know Bumgarner's team will tell you that they believe they're going to get a shot at Katie Taylor or Amanda Serrano.

I'll believe that when I see it. I think it's more likely Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano fight each other at some point this summer, something Eddie Erna has kind of floated out there. And for Cloressa, as I mentioned, I mean, 154 to 168 is barren in terms of marketable opponents that can drive a rating, drive a live gate. It may not be comfortable to get down a little more in wait that she wants to, but if she wants to get paid, she may have to do it,

and bomb guard her, it could mean the exact same thing. So we'll see. We'll see what happens later on this year with that fight. Keith, good stuff, man. Always appreciate your time. You are a phenomenal BFF of the pod.

I always appreciate you doing it. Yeah, of course. Sunny time, man. Thanks. And when we come back, my conversation with Ryan Garcia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's, unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions.

my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye They said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed, correct.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So, Ryan, this feels like it's been a long. time coming between you and Devin Haney. Does it feel that way to you? Honestly, I mean, when you look back life, like things feel like they come like this, you know. Before you know, I was fighting him at nine years old, 10 years old, and now we're both in our 20s and we're ready to throw down. So to me, it feels like this, but obviously it's been a long time. Those first fights when you were nine or 10 years old, what do you remember about them? That he was just like a kid trying to, you know, get into the sport. Like, he wasn't known. at all. He just came in out of nowhere and started boxing and everybody was beating him. So when I first

fought him, I was like, okay, another kid, like he sucks. Bye. Like, I beat him very easy the first time. But obviously he started evolving and got better. And then all of a sudden he started beating people. And then that's when everybody was on their radar. Okay, like he stepped it up. Did the fights between you and him get more competitive as they went on? Yeah, I would say so. When I'm locked in, obviously, I heard him every time, you know, there's times where I didn't lock in and he ended up beating me on points, but it was very mediocre wins, nothing that stands out. When I beat them, people were talking about it even after that.

I remember specifically in North Carolina, we were at the Junior Olympic Nationals. We were about 15, 14. And, I mean, I went at him right away, and I had him, you know, hurt, wobbling. You know, in the middle of the ring, everybody's going crazy. And, you know, his own coach, or one of his people in his... corner came up to my dad after the fight and he goes, Devin thinks that he broke, you broke

his eardrum, like he's in the corner, I can't hear at all. Like, he wanted to stop the fight. But that was just one example of what I've done. And he never gave me an account. He literally cut the video that he was showing. Like, he actually got a point taking away that fight for hitting me back of the head. This is the last time you guys fought. Yes, he hit me back of the head, got a point taken away and still won.

That means he would have had to kill me all the rounds. They probably robbed me for that fight. but it's all good. I don't even care. Do you feel like you at your best back then could have beaten him at his best? 100%. I was just too much for him. Too strong, too explosive. You know, there's guys that are like

great, good, and then there's just that guy. I'm that guy. So, you know, when I fight, it's not mid. You know, when he fights, it's mid. Like, great, Devin Nye is like, great, he's boxing, like, Devin Nainty, the boxer. It's like when I fight, it's like, this is a Ryan Garcia fight.

This is a show. There's a different energy. We're not the same. I'm about to show you when it comes to fight night. You guys fought your last amateur fight towards the end of your amateur careers. Do you remember thinking it all back then, like, I'm going to see this guy down the line.

I'm going to see this guy when we turn pro. I mean, it always kind of looked like that, especially when he first went pro. I was like, oh, what the heck? He went pro quick. And then it so worked out for me, too. I mean, I made the USA team. I was going to travel.

with the national team, but something in me said, no, let's go that route. You know, I'll admit he kind of set the trend on going pro early and fighting in Mexico and doing that. I just did it ten times better. You know, he had his Instagram going and YouTube. I started doing it, and then I'm just better at it. Everything he does, I'm just better at.

So that's kind of how it started. And then, yeah, I went and blew up first in the pros. And I started, you know, making my own way. Last December, after Devin beat Regis Progray, you pretty quickly hopped on social media after that and said, I'm ready to fight Devin Haney. Was there something you saw in that fight, or was it a certain level that Devin got to you that got you as interested in that? I think more so instinct, you know, I always let God lead me and everything, so it felt like it was time. I'm also in the best place I've been in for a long time. It carried over from D'Orte, and it just got even better.

this is the time. I feel like I'm stepping right into my prime and I feel like in my heart I'm the face of boxing. And I say that because of my upside and how I can, you know, make anything have a high reach. You know, people don't even just talk about my boxing.

They talk about my life. If I walk wrong and they record it, I'm going to go viral for some reason. So I think I'm just that guy now. All right, wherever it's in the start, you all get free shoot. No, no. No!

You know, I touch places that Canelo can't touch, and I touch places that no fighter right now can touch just me. I'm a marketing machine, and I have the will to be the best at everything I do. I don't leave any stone unturned. So, yeah, I feel, will this fight solidify me as a world champion? Yes. Do I need that? Yes.

Am I going to do it? Yes. That's just a bonus. But also it signifies like he is the face of boxing. Ryan was always the one to do it. That's great. You look back at your fight in December against Oscar Duarte.

What letter grade would you give that performance? I'll give myself an A-minus. The only part I messed up was staying in the pocket maybe a little too long. Other than that, people like to make fun of the defense. I could show you a million videos of Maywell, they're turning his back. I could make a whole real highlight of it. I don't need to explain myself.

I wasn't getting hit. I got hit. I made one shot in that little thing, and I made two shots a hook. but most part he was missing and it disrupted his rhythm he was coming forward he was kind of nobody was noticing but he was building momentum

by the third fourth round I'm like okay this dude's like the Terminator like let me just go to this guard and stop the pressure let's stop the bleeding before he gets crazy so I did that and then when I was done deflating the tire I started moving again and then because of all those punches I hit him with he started getting delirious and then he threw a punch and got caught

I know what I'm doing You don't. Your first fight with Derek James. How did you feel that partnership went? Amazing. You know, me and Derek, we just have a real cool thing going on. And we get each other. I respect him.

You know, he's more, he's a coach, he's a philosopher. He's like a father. He's everything. So he's a really, really great asset. When you're facing someone like Devin Haney, having watched him against Lomachenko, watching him against Regis Progray, how complicated a fight do you think this is going to be? Not at all.

Not complicated. I've been boxing my whole life. There's nothing that I'm going to see that I've not seen before. So it's not going to be complicated. It's just I got to execute. You can't have no mercy on Devon. That's the problem in Lomachenko had. Regis is just not a good fighter.

He's still an amateur, in my opinion, you know, the way he fights. You know, he started late. It's showing that he started late. You're not that guy. So I would knock him out within three rounds. Sleep. It would be very bad for Regis. But let's not get into that.

But I would knock you out. I would do it for fun, you know. Like a little, oh, shit. But Devin's going to get badly hurt. That's why, like, that's why there's not going to be a rematch. There's no rematch cost. Like, Rocky Bow, there's no rematch. It's not going to be done a rematch.

You know, when you two guys got in the ring together after your win in Anaheim four years ago, You gotta beat me to become champ. I'll get to you. I'll get to you. There was some trash talk there, but you seem friendly in that moment. Has that changed? Oh yeah, there was a big shift.

I just started seeing who they really are. You know, smile on your face, stab me in the back. They have different motives. I don't work that way, but can I sense it when it's going down? Yeah, I was on the phone with him. He was explaining what he wanted in this fight and how could we make it happen. Percentage-wise, he was being very nice. calling me bro, laughing, and I looked at my security, and I think I put it on mute or something.

I said, suddenly you don't feel right. I don't know what it is. But I don't feel at peace. I don't understand this. And then it hit me. Oh, he's trying to make me lower my guard. So that's why I sent him that text message basically saying we're not friends. Don't lose sight of that.

There's not going to be mercy. I don't give a fuck. I'm coming to knock you the fuck out and leave with no crumbs. Like, you and your daddy. So I had to let him know. Like, you're not my friends. Don't act like it. Let's not fake it. You're not my fucking friend. You want to win, and that's it.

Shut the fuck up. Let's figure it out as men. But you're not my friend at all. Don't hit my phone no more. That's why there was the first thing I told him when we were face and face. Everything I told him on text, I said, it's his face. I was like, dude, we're not friends. Stop playing.

Like, don't try to play me. So that's what I'm. You know right now? That was some of the problem. When you're not. When you. faced against each other in Vegas. Did that get maybe a little more personal

than you thought it was going to get? Did that get more heated than you thought it was going to get? Well, I'll set the record straight. All we were gonna do was face off at a specific spot. Nobody planned for what I went and did because he started talking as I was walking to the spot and he was a move and I hit a switch. I said, okay, I just went straight tongue.

I was like, we're gonna do it right here. And then I started going in on them and obviously I thought touch the nerve. Bill Haney even wanted to fight me. Those dudes, I, I, I'm gonna put so much fear into Devin that he's gonna be, like, in the ring, we'll be shaking. He's gonna want to pique his pants in the back room, like that's how much I'm gonna, like, they think I'm joking, though. I'm gonna make sure he's, he feels like my bitch before we get on there. Like, your dad's a pimp and he's pimping you. Yeah,

you both. So I'm gonna put so much fear in him, he's just, it's like, the go down his lay. They're like, who's peeing? You know, with Devin at this stage, he's probably fighting at his best, or at least the best we've seen him. Whatever you think of ProGrea, a complete shutout and knock him down.

Good performance. Do you feel like you're at your best? You're coming off a knockout win. You're still, though, working with a new trainer. There's probably still an adjustment to that. Do you feel like you're at your best right now? Oh, yeah. I mean, my absolute best.

and it's only getting better. The thing with me, the same time, it would take somebody to get used to a new trainer. Those rules don't apply to me because they just don't. No, we're perfectly fine. Everything is great. Like I said, he needs the least of my worry. If I wasn't scared to fight tank,

why would I be worried about a guy that can't crack an egg? It's not going to hurt me to be in the ring with them. The worst thing could do to me is jab me. Great. What are you going to do about me? when that is real like it's not like I'm throwing some pebbles bro I'm hitting you with some

like even if it don't hit you fully you're gonna be like I don't want to do it I'm scared like he's gonna be worried when those these are eight ounce gloves these are not the pillow 10 ounce gloves that we fought in like this is some you thought I hit hard back then

bro you have a whole other thing coming for you and this is not just a fight for me this is deeper This is spiritual. This is deeper. I'm coming with a whole type of different energy and focus. He's thinking it's a boxing match.

I'm thinking literally life or death. Not for him, of course. But like to fight, you know, anything happened. I don't want that to happen. I want to go that on record, you know. But I'm coming with that type of aggression and fury. Like, I'm coming, like, that's intentional. Like, it's just in me against him.

I know you think and you believe the perception of you is different than the reality. You talk about the keyboard warriors out there that have been critical of you. Some might have said maybe he's not as focused as he should be because you're on social media a lot and you engage with a lot of fans. How would you respond to that?

I don't know how long do you guys think it takes to make a post, but in my reality, it takes 10 seconds. So, I mean, if they're that dumb, I can't help you. I'm going to just, like, leave it up for your interpretation. As long as I know, my team knows that we work out everyday hard and shit, and we're killing in the gym and we're looking great. I'm not worried about the perception of others

because that's not the reality of it. So you could call me the most, like, that was a stupid quote by Chris Algeria. The most disciplined fighter versus the most undisciplined. Bro, you don't get here in this spot being undisciplined. Think what your brain. Has anybody ever been successful and came from nothing by not working hard?

You're literally low-keyed dumb. I'd be probably high-key. Like that makes no sense Again this was a narrative Set by Canelo Because I took a mental health break This has just been following me my whole life It's bull-h-h-h-h-h

I train hardest Does that add even more importance to this Because you would You know Devin does have that perception of Strictly focused if you win this fight How could be strictly focused If he balloons up the most out of all of us Wouldn't it the most disciplined fighter

Be like Terrence Crawford That's always in shape I think you just messed up. Like, that makes no sense. He gets really big. Far past 180, in my opinion, when he gets big, big. So, look, it's just a narrative that's going to, you know, organically change over the, you know, upcoming months. How does this fight end? I feel, honestly, that his ribs will be broken, and I feel like his daddy's going to need

to make the choice to stop the fight or else it's going to get ugly. That or me knocking him out, saves them. It's one of those. But it's going to be bad. It's like, I'm not like, honestly, like, I don't want his closest people to be there, but if they want to be there, so be it, but it's not going to, I'm not coming to play. Like, it's not,

they're smiling like another boxing match. I'm telling you, I'm not coming that way. Like, it's a whole different energy. It's not the same. Ryan Garcia, see you, see you, Hi, Petonia. Love. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck and Ryan Garcia for joining the show.

Always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

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