The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Cowboys Schedule; HOF'er Michael Irvin and Tony Casillas Talk Offseason; Lincoln Riley on CeeDee Lamb, Dallas Rumors

Episode Date: May 9, 2020

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby visit with Oklahoma head coach Lincoln Riley about CeeDee Lamb, Neville Gallimore, and how much interest Dallas showed in him this past winter. Plus, former Cowboys Michael Irvin and Tony Casillas stop by with their takes on the biggest stories surrounding America’s Team.Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a hear, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Calling all partners, losing weight is better together with Nutrisystem's partner plan. In fact, people who diet together lose 20% more weight than dieting on their own. Get new premium meals with up to 30 grams of protein. They're big and filling and taste delicious.

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See website for details on our two-month subscription offer. No purchase necessary. Open only to U.S. residents over 21. Boydware prohibited runs December 25 through April 4th, 22. For official rules, visit Nutrisystem.com. Sponsored by Nutrisystem Inc. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater

and NFL network producer Bobby Belt. a Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. All right, well, we've had a busy couple of days. We've recorded our next two podcast. So if you look at a difference in clothing, if you're watching us on YouTube, then you will notice, yes, we are wearing a different outfit for this episode. You know, I've got to get the aesthetics out of the way, Bobby, as we do.

this for both mediums. We appreciate so many of you that are listening and downloading us, not only on the podcast on iTunes and IHeart Media app, but also now checking us out on YouTube. So if you haven't seen us on YouTube, of course, go there and find us the Boys and Girl podcast. A couple of things have happened this week since we last talked. Obviously, the Cowboys released Cooper Rush. I think we sort of saw that when coming as they signed Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton got people a little excited by saying that he considers himself. a starter. And I guess my only answer to that, Bobby, is of course, he's a starter. He was a starter his whole career. And that's why it was so exciting, I think, for a lot of Cowboys fans,

and Andy Dalton was coming in Dallas. But I'm still getting no indication that Dak Prescott is not their guy, although I do find it interesting that they haven't had any meaningful conversation since they placed that exclusive franchise tag on DAC, something that I was told by a source of mine inside the building. Yeah. And I mean, I think that obviously, one thing that I assume everybody understands about the DAC Prescott negotiations is the fact that since that tag happened, you also had the death of Jace Prescott, Dax's brother. So I'm sure that's kind of complicated things. I'm sure there was no business going on during that time. In regards to Andy talking about, you know, he considers himself a starter. I do think that's normal.

Kind of like you say, you know, I remember years ago, and maybe this isn't a great example because he did end out being the starter. I remember when Vinnie Testa Verdi was brought in in 2004. and people were like, oh, is he going to start over Quincy Carter? Vinny said, you know, to the media and training camp said, you know, well, I think we all like to think we're the guy. But, you know, we're here to just do our jobs and, you know, do whatever is asked of us. Of course, like a week later, Quincy Carter was cut and Vinny was the guy. But at the time, it was, Vinny was making a good point, which is anybody who's a quarterback, you've got to have that mindset that you're always ready to go in.

That's part of the job of the backup quarterback is you've got to be ready to come in and play. And so I think you need to have that starter's mindset. But also very clearly in that call with the media, you know, he said, Dax the starter. That, you know, he knows Dax the starter and that's where things stand. And I don't think anybody realistically, and we'll ask, you know, some of our guests coming up here about the idea of Andy Daltin potentially pushing Dack. But I don't think anybody realistically thinks that it's any sort of a threat to Dack Prescott's job. As you said, people in the building aren't giving you any sort of an indication of that. If anything, maybe it was an added benefit.

You getting a backup was the primary reason. Maybe it's an added benefit for something Jerry or Stephen can say in negotiations. You know, well, we just had to have ourselves prepared here. You're talking about not showing up to meeting. So we're just, he's not here to replace you. But if you're not here, we've got to have somebody to take the reps. Maybe that's some little push as an added benefit. But I think the primary benefit was clear.

They just, they needed a better backup quarterback. And I think they saw with the Philadelphia game last year when Dak was hurt, but you thought that a hurt Dak Prescott that couldn't use his throwing arm was better than Cooper Rush going out there. I think that that said quite a lot to them, and they realized, we got to get this backup quarterback situation fixed again. And with the exception of the year that DAC ended up becoming the franchise guy, and it was Tony Romo, Kellan Moore, of course, Jim Schauer's head on the depth chart,

Dach Prescott. I can't remember them having this much depth at the quarterback position. So I think this is a good thing. I likened the signing of Andy Dalton sort of to having a more credible, more accomplished Mark Sanchez in the room that's really just helping him out. And also sort of a Teddy Bridgewater of sorts, a guy that could be a starter somewhere else but is preparing himself for sort of that second half of his career. Teddy Bridgewater, of course, had the gruesome injury with the Vikings. And now he's going to be the starter with Carolina and commanded top dollar for that, by the way. Andy could very well do that by being with the Cowboys.

You know, anytime you're associated with the Cowboys, your market value just goes up infinitely. Yeah. So I think this was a good move for them. All right. So let's talk about the schedule released. You know, we've been talking about this pandemic, what the season's going to look like next year.

As it was explained to me by people in the league, look, we're anticipating the game day experience is going to be different than what they're used to. It has to be during these uncertain times. The NFL and the clubs have been prepared and executed alternative plans during other seasons for whether events such as hurricanes, wildfires, excessive winter storms. And of course, they made adjustments in the wake of 9-11. And as for ticket holders, they're going to work through that too. NFL teams continuing those all-season activities.

They're preparing to open and play the season as scheduled. And of course, that's why they did the schedule release. I love that Troy Vincent was asked, all right, are there alternate schedule? He said not to his knowledge. but I think re-between the lines as we're sort of navigating this situation, yes, the goal is 100% to have a football season

but they've already pulled back on the London games, not doing that. There's not going to be to travel to Mexico City or London, but the goal is to see this season through. Yeah, and I think that, you know, we talked about this a little bit after the draft that it was nice because it created

the water cooler again a little bit. It allowed people to return into a little bit of normalcy. And I think that the schedule is not so much that, but I think the going ahead and releasing the schedule, whether it's optimistic or not, I mean, I don't think anybody can really project anything four months into the future right now.

It's such a bizarre time and so unexpected. It doesn't feel like it's been two months since the Rudy Gober and NBA should have. That feels like forever ago. And I remember at the time, when that happened that people felt like, man, this is going to be a pivotal moment. And then Rudy Gobert is the permanent villain. And that's kind of changed because it became so rampant and so widespread that I think people realized like,

all right, he probably didn't trigger this spreading everywhere. And so I think that, you know, given how much everything changes in our anticipation, I remember there was a point where I was talking to a couple sources who were saying that they didn't think the draft was going to happen until like they thought that was getting pushed back. until May. And then that didn't happen. And so it's hard to project anything, but I think just the releasing the schedule,

having dates in place, I think it gives people some hope. And it, you know, gives people a sense of, like I say, normalcy, like they've returned to a little bit

of their normal lives. And I think that that's something that people need right now is at least the hope that, you know, we're going to see this. And I think the NFL is doing everything they can to make sure that it's seen.

And I think if you look at the way the schedule is structured with, I believe they said Philadelphia and Washington are the only two division teams playing in week one. I think they've set up a schedule that allows them to, if they need to shorten a schedule without impacting a lot of divisional games and playoff races. So I think it was measured and calculated, but I think that it was needed. and I do think that they appear optimistic that the season's going to be played. But look, sports fans, I hope during this pandemic, when there was no sports, I hope you picked up a hobby or something.

Oh, yeah. Maybe you're cooking Hello Fresh. Maybe you've kicked the soccer ball with your kids a little bit more. Hello Fresh. Diversity a little bit. Hello for, exactly. Just diversify a little bit, you know? Yeah, no.

And I was all about Hello Fresh. And I think, you know, I think especially for you and I, it's, I hate. because I know there are so many people in such a bad spot right now. And it's tough and it's, you know, it's nothing anybody wants to see and I don't want to minimize anybody's struggles. I feel like overall, though, this has been a chance for a lot of people to kind of, you know, reassess how they use their time and, you know, delegate things more, you know, find out what's more important and what you want to prioritize.

And hopefully when everything goes back to normal, you know, people are going to be able to carry over some of those better habits that they've created while they've been inside. And, you know, we talked to those draft prospects leading up. And then they talked about how they had to get creative with, you know, body weight workouts and then, you know, different things like that since they didn't have gyms. So, yeah, a chance to better yourself and hopefully you're coming out the other side. I know Jane, for instance, has been busier now that she can't go anywhere than she's ever been before. Yeah, but I love your optimism about how we're going to suddenly change our habits. It's going to probably be same Jane, same-ish.

No, yeah, I mean, when this is all done, I'm going to go back to doing everything that I did before the pandemic. But it's nice to, like with the NFL schedule, we're trying to give people hope and let them think their good habits are going to carry over. And in reality, we're going to go back to eating, you know, McDonald's three times a week. And I've broken that. I've broken that now. but you even told Curtis Weaver in our interview that you went and got nuggets or had them delivered to you, McDonald's chicken nuggets. So I know that's not totally true. That's been in quarantine in the last month that you've eaten McDonald's.

Nothing escapes you, Bobby. All right. Moving on. Let's talk about the schedule release as it pertains to the Cowboys. You know, some people weren't shocked by week one. Maybe I should have been more shocked. You know, we always sort of expect the Cowboys are going to play the Giants in week one. And how interesting would that have been having Jason Garrett.

Mark Colombo on that opposing sideline. And Cameron Fleming and Cooper Rush. Of course. Let's not forget them. Some of the cowboy fans are going who. Instead, Jerry Jones, of course, had a big hand in getting old St. Cronky.

St. Louis Rams and Stan Crocky over to L.A. and they open up the season on a big old stage. Sunday night football against the Rams in a new Sofi Stadium. That one's going to be fun. I'm really excited about that game. I'm excited about the potential for, and I think this was wise of the NFL schedule makers.

I think they saw this a little bit, is that you see that San Francisco all of a sudden is a much better football team than I think the league anticipated with them going to the Super Bowl last year. And I think the NFL also recognizes Dallas should have been better than they were last year and is projecting a little bit that they'll be better. And so I do really like that they've set it up for week 15, you know, final couple games of the year there in December, Sunday night football, the 49th. and the Cowboys again, a little bit of nostalgia. There's actually a lot of, when you look at like just kind of the history of the

Cowboys, they've got a lot of historic rivals coming for games this year. You've got Pittsburgh is coming to town, San Francisco. They're going to play Atlanta at home. That's a team they've played in the playoffs a number of times throughout their history. And another team that they've got a lot of long history with and some recent history to the Rams that they're going to open up with in that stadium. And so a lot of exciting matchups, the one that, is interesting to me is for people who know the CBS Fox breakdown,

typically when CBS gets an NFC game, it's when they're playing an AFC opponent. But this year, they're actually, they got a Cowboys Giants game, and the Cowboys Browns game is going over to Fox. But Cowboys Giants, that'll be interesting. That's the first time they've played on CBS

since the Emmett Smith separated shoulder game. That's the first time Cowboys and Giants have played each other on CBS. MVB coming through with the Rain Man Fact. Oh yeah. Yeah, I should, I'm not going to say who, but when I texted that question to somebody else in the media last night, I got a text back that said, you would be the weird expletive that would ask that question. It's who you are. Lean into it, Bobby. Hey, I'm down. It's my favorite Taylor Tomlinson quote, positive or negative, Hall of Fame or Hall of Shame, as long as my picture's on the wall. Just remember me. You're in rare form today, my friend. Week 13, I think, was the interesting one.

That's when I'm circling. That's when the Cowboys traveled to face Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. And we talked about Des Bryant getting the looks from the Ravens last year. What if Des Bryant is playing for the Ravens and then they face the Cowboys on Thursday, hit football? Would that not be a fun game? Think about all the energy there. If you were to get Des on the Ravens and you'd have Dak versus Lamar,

and you'd get the reunion of Earl Thomas versus the Cowboys for the first time since he bowed to their sideline. Mark Ingram, Ezekiel Elliott. I mean, that game would be wild. I could literally do a deep dive, as you know, into the Earl Thomas story, but I'm not going to go there because we have got a jam-pack show here today. Tony Casillas, who of course played for the Cowboys

during their heyday in the 90s, a former OU alum. And then, of course, speaking of OU. you, we've got Lincoln. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMA? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah. No, we don't have plenty. We just say, y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast,

the Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Come on out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Riley, the head coach for Oklahoma talking about Sooner South, and how interested were the Cowboys in him as the head coach?

And then we've also got another big guest. He needs no introduction. He's one of my favorites. I could do a show, a whole show with him, the Playmaker, Number 88, Michael Irvin, our second member of the 88 Club in as many weeks, as many shows. And like Jane said, we've already kind of recorded some of this. So I think you're really going to enjoy Michael. Michael was in, you know, I don't want to say rare for him because Michael is Michael.

But he was in his, you know, full Michael form. We got a good, you know, 30 minutes with him and lots of good takes on CD Lamb and the defense and, you know, some of the lack of leadership that may have been in the locker room last year. And a great story that I took personal notes on about why you should send your teenage son away. Yeah, so good stuff there. Great stuff with Lincoln Riley, Tony Cassius. Got a jam-packed show today. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmetter, and more.

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Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom is just not. Nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten,

has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff.

Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the... right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nidza and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring.

at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. All right, we are now joined by one of my teammates at NFL Network, Michael Irvin. You can follow him on Twitter at Michael Irvin 88. Michael, we know you are so busy this offseason,

especially as we troubleshoot not only the Skypes, the Zooms, the live TVUs that we're using in TV, but how are you, my friend? I'm doing well, you know, blessed, And it's so funny, Jane. You know, I was on just the other day with Dana White because they're doing, you know, they're doing the fights coming up this weekend. And I said to him, the same thing I said to Roger, thank you guys for being strong through it all.

I know our health is most important. But people have to understand. We have physical health. We have emotional and mental health, too. And what we need are our live situations to help get through those situations, the motivation, the inspiration. We'll have UFC fights. That will see somebody fight through something

that helps us fight through what we're going through. We had the NFL draft. We see dreams come true. That reminds us we all have dreams too. So the mental side, help with the physical side. That's why I lament those guys. I commend those guys for going forward to give us something to inspire us.

Well, I think of you, because this is that typical, that time of year where you thrive. People feed so much off of your energy. I know you feed off of their energy. What did you think of that ESPN duopoly? I had a lot of fun watching you guys do that together. Yeah. It was everywhere.

It was everywhere. It was funny because it's going into it, you know, Jane, like, especially in the off-seasons for me. The off-seasons for me is about traveling and about speaking and all of that trying to, Inspire people, motivate people. And I thought when we talked about doing a virtual draft, like, oh, my God, we're going to miss so many of the stories that are being shared. It's not just about how that kid and his skill set fit with this team and their philosophy. It's also you learn the backdrops, you learn the journeys, you learn the struggles that people have gone through to get to this point. Though we miss some of that because we were not able to put our hands on and touch and come in the studio and interview people like we usually do, we miss some of that.

I thought we got some of it also by going into everybody's homes to see at their homes to see some of the moms and the girlfriend and the mom like, uh-uh, I'm no one carried this joker for nine months. I'm the one birthed and fed this joker. Get off him, girlfriend. That money's coming to me. You know, that's what you were seeing. And I was like, I mean, this is great. But I don't know if all of us African Americans want America in our own like this and seeing that like that. It was some funny stuff.

It was great stuff for social media and fun stuff like that. I love you. So what did you think of C.D. Lam's situational awareness. Now, they came out and said his agent. was Face-Tiving him. I felt bad for his girl, Prince and Rose. But you got to love that it was the Cowboys,

and it happened like that. Right. And that's what I tried to share with him. You know, I said, hey, whatever you see, just magnified by 20, and now you understand what it is with the Dallas Cowboys. Well, most people, maybe that's nothing. But now that you're a cowboy,

oh, that's everything. Because everything, if you're, I said to him, this, Jane, coming to think about it. I said, listen, man, understand this. I hear the rhetoric that people push out their mouth, but it's not reality. When you hear people say, will you fail to 17? I said, man, listen, you don't fall to the Cowboys. God places you on the Cowboys.

I said, this is a blessing that you have no idea about. If you really want to make your mark, I said, trust me, lose a little on the front of it. I did. It was a little on the front end, but you'll make it all up on the back end if you come and produce and have a great career. You know, I had an opportunity to get drafted 7th or something by Green Bay. Did not want to go there. Wanted to come to Dallas, you know, so I said to him, I said, Tim, Brown, Sterling, Sharks all went before me. They didn't go to Dallas.

You do not fall to Dallas. You are placed in Dallas and take this placing as a great blessing because of you. it would be one of the most incredible careers and one of the most incredible experiences you ever had. Well, and, you know, we talk about falling to 17. There was a linchpin of your 90s dynasties that fell to 17 because that's what Emmett did. And a lot of people talk about Emmett falling to 17 to the Cowboys and, oh, they wanted James Francis. You know, they didn't even want Emmett. But I think that turned out all right. So that'll probably be the case for C.D. Lamb. Now, when you look at the Cowboys as compared to the end of last year to where they're at now and

they've lost a lot of guys. They've had a lot of turnover. They've brought in some others. You know, they're really hoping maybe Alden Smith can come back as well as Randy Gregory and they draft CD Lamb and Trayvon Diggs. Do you think they are at this moment a better team than they ended the season or have they still not replaced everything that they've lost? Well, to say better, I like the direction and I like the possibility of them being better because of this. when you went into this offseason, we knew there were a lot of holes that need to be filled on defense.

And we lost some major components of that defense. You lost Robert Quinn to Chicago. You lost Byron Jones to Miami. You know, we're still wondering about some defense alignment that we need up front and in the middle. So you said we got all of these holes to fill on defense to make this defense better than it was last year.

and can we fill those holes and can we make them better? That is something that we don't know and we won't know until we actually get on the football field. So you can say, do we try to plug in all of these holes or do we take this offense to another stratosphere? And that helps the defense as we fill in these holes and give them an opportunity to jail together. Pick in C.D. Lamb, and I know I talk to the Cowboys.

Jane, I know you talk to everybody over there. They really wanted to go defensive on that first pick. They told me, they said, Michael, we're looking to secure up our secondary. We're certainly looking at to get some more pressure from the defensive line. But they told me before the draft. But if our top guy on the board is there at 17, we will have to look at it. Their top guy was C.D. Lamb. They told me that going into the draft.

He was there. They took him. I liked it because I say to people, if I can put up 35, 40 points every game, and now they have the ability to do what they were doing at the beginning of last year all year long with CD Lamb. You're putting up 35, 40 points. That is helping the defense. That's helping the defense have to go up against a one-dimensional offense that's trying to play catch-up, and that gives you a better chance at winning games because you took an offense to another level instead of trying to take one off-season and feel all those holes on

defense. Still one of your cliches, there were a couple of, oh my God, moments by Jerry Jones this offseason. We'll start with number one, anointing CD Lamb, his new 88. When we've all been talking about the possibility of Des possibly getting another look from the Cowboys, and Jerry on Draft Night saying that he wanted CD to wear that 88 because his friend in college at Arkansas Ward and Pals. away. We had Drew Pearson on this show ahead of you, and he talked about what comes with the 88

club and him having a conversation with you about what that meant. What did you think about that? Well, first, you know, Dan, I try to reach out to all the young guys that are coming in. You know, I called Jared Judy and all those things. I was getting ready to call CD. He called me, you know, which I'm impressed whenever you get a young man calling and seeking and certain. for knowledge and understanding. He first said, he said, you know, I know you may have heard what I said about wearing 88 because he wanted to wear number 10. And I said, no, I said, hey, man.

I said, I had no issue with that. I said, I told him, I said, the best thing for you to do is to do whatever brings the dog out of you eats in every crack of dawn. You know, for me, seeing that number 88, walking in the stadium, seeing all those guys on the ring of honor that built the star to what it was. I wanted to have that in front of me to make sure I remember who I am honoring by stepping on that field. It wasn't just about all more makes of money. No, it's about honoring the guys that have gone before me and made the Cowboys what it is.

It's the same thing. I always tell the guys when I'm speaking to them in Miami. This is not you. We came before you and built this. And it's in your hands. Don't you mess it up. So Drew, put the 88 in my hands, the Cowboys in my hands. So it was up to me not to mess it up.

And that pushed me. That made me go every day. I said, you do whatever makes you go. And he said, well, I appreciate that, Michael. I want to make my own mark. Go make your own mark. But Jane, I said to him this, that man you talking about the draft that you, Jerry Joe, he don't become a billionaire without being very persuasive and convincing.

He usually gets his way. So then a couple days later, when he came back out, oh, he is wearing 80 years. I called him and said, hmm, so he ran into that fellow I was talking about. I'll let you tell. I'll let him tell the story about him and Jerry. But, you know, I also told him this. I said, listen, man, this is a great opportunity.

There's going to be so much great, so many things expected from you when you put this number on your back, you know, go out and play hard, do what you have to do, you know, to become the greatest you want to be. And between me, you also said, think about it this way. Honestly, buddy. Jerry, Jerry wants to win another Super Bowl before God calls him out of time to eternity.

One day, one day, that whole family, it'll be Stephen and Charlotte, they'll be getting ready to write your check for maybe $150 to $200 million. It'll make it a lot easier for them to write their check if they say he put that $88.8 on his back. and gave our dad his last wish and got us to a Super Bowl. Trust me, they will stroke that pen happily. He said, you know what, playmaker? Thanks for saying that, buddy. I got it. You know what I'm saying?

So give a little now. You'll get a lot later. It all worked out. You know, it is fascinating because I've talked to Des recently, and even he said, you know, look, he gets it. And if anything, he wants to help him market that brand. That, you know, 88 was a number, and there was obviously history with it,

but 88 also took on a life of its own because of the branding in this new era and how you promote yourself. So I thought that was cool of Des. But the other thing I wanted to talk. I heard too that Jay and Des is not giving the opportunity. I heard too. Let me tell you something too. Because Jane, you know, you don't see that kind of connectivity and love from a player

to an organization like that. You know, people ask about this all the time. I just, you know, I can't believe that there's, you know, the pain I'm not. of being released by the Cowboys is really what stopped him from going to any other team. He just held out hope that he was coming back to Dallas. And I was like, man, you know, you know, Jane, like I know, Baltimore, Cleveland. Teams will call him, saying, Des won't even come and visit. He didn't want to come and visit.

He was hoping to get back to the Cowboys. You can't replace that kind of love, that kind of commitment to an organization. So it hurt me that killed his last opportunity to get back on the field. are so perceived. You never know what would happen with injuries or anything like that. But now you got three receivers and you got Blake George, Jarwin.

So that put Dan's basically in the fifth position to catch a ball. And that's a long fall in the same helmet that you wore when you were number one. I don't think it's going to happen with Dallas, but I think does is finally at peace with that. You know, I will tell you that I, there are

teams that are still interested. I think what's holding him back right now is the fact they can't get him in the building for the medicals. And I've talked to teams. They can't get them in for the medicals and they can't see them up close and personal right now. So there might be some movement, but I think the one thing with Des is at least his heads in a different place, but I know you look at Des sort of the same way I do.

And I sort of commend him for the fact that he's still grinding it and going after it. And you can't knock a guy for trying. But yeah, to your point, it is unfortunate that that thing played out the way it did. All right. So let's talk real quick. And then I'll let Bobby drop in here. the other oh my God moment, Andy Dalton falling to the Cowboys. You talk about falling versus placed.

The pandemic sort of placed him with the Cowboys. What did you think of that move? And as I've been reporting, and I know you talked to a lot of people in the Cowboys Organization too, I'm being told right now he is an insurance policy, that DAC is still their franchise guy. But how does this affect leverage for DAC at this point? Well, I don't think it affects Leverridge for Doc at all.

There's no way Jerry's putting this kind of resource this kind of investment into an offense that he's going to turn over to Andy Dahl. And we don't even know how many good years Andy Dought has left when he's that great young talent that can grow together for a while. You can have a hell of an offense

running together for a while. You're just locked up, Zee, you're about to lock up DAC. You're just locked up Amar. You have two fantastic young receivers and Gallup and CD Lamb. There's no way, the way you lock this, locked up, Blake George,

Jorri, there's no way you turn that over to a guy that's as long as late in his career as Andy Dalton. You want that thing to simmer with the, press Scott and grow. We're not just talking about having success now. You're talking about having success later also, and that's exactly what you'll get. Now, that being said, it is, in some sense, it is a great insurance policy, not in the sense

of a policy that ensures if DAC doesn't sign, you're good, but in a sense of a policy that says if DAC is not totally healthy, you're good. You cannot tell me, and all of my years of playing ball and having all kinds of shoulder deans and hits on my shoulder, that in game, week 17, the last year against the Philadelphia Eagles, that maybe if you had Andy Dawd, Jack Prescott could have sat that game because he had that shoulder injury. And nobody, nobody talked about how that must have affected his game. You can't, you can't throw all week and you're going to go into a game. So maybe if you have an Andy Dogg, you can play some in and still win that game and give that Prescott back his job the next week going into the playoffs, give him a little more time to get healthy to play that game a little bit better.

That's the kind of insurance policy I think Andy Dogg brings. Andy Don can win you a game or two in spot duties here and there. I don't think he'll make a run and get you deep into a playoffs or into a Super Bowl. So I likened it a little bit to a Teddy Bridgewater signing. Is that fair? That's too far. That's too far. That's too far.

That's too far. Because Teddy Bridgewater, Teddy Bridgewater gave you some upside. Hey, something catastrophic happened to Drew Breed, man, you move right on to Taddy Bridgewater and keep it moving. You see what I mean? You just say, hey, okay, we're sorry, Drew Breed. We thank you for the great career. Teddy Bridgewater, we're going to extend your deal. And now you are our guy on the future.

You know, so they had some now and some later with Teddy Bridgewater. If they wanted it, the Cowboys only have a noun with Andy Dawkins. There is no labor. You know what I'm saying? Period. I just didn't realize what a beehive Andy Dalton had. I mean, lately, people are coming out of the woodwork saying, well, Andy Dalton hasn't had these sort of weapons.

Look what he could do here. No, no, no. No, no. And I'm like, guys, guys, let's stop the brakes. That's what people do. That's what they do. because, you know, they get the fighting for the organization, and don't care who it is, they fight against the player.

Let's be real. That's why I got to give some credit to Carolina and what they did. You know, Carolina knew, okay, do we put McCaffrey through this washing? Do we make him have to force our hand when we know we're going to have to do something and get him in? or do we go ahead and step up and do the deal so we don't make the fan base mad at McCaffrey when now he's becoming the face of our franchise because we no longer have Cam Noon or Luke Keechley so they stepped up and made the deal so they didn't have to go through that fighting

that made the fan base mad at the face of their franchise. That's where I do not applaud the Dallas Cowboys for making the fan base mad at the face of the franchise who is that Prescott right now. And to that point, I don't know that it's the Andy Dalton hive as much as the Romo hive that still has never accepted DAC, that small little

group. I think they just lent their support to throw it to Andy Dalton this week. I don't think that was Andy's hive. I think that was Romo's and the anti-Dak hive. They're still waiting to get any shot they can at that they are. They are, I, I, yeah, I, yeah, that's

always, I remember the Giants game his rookie year where he had been 12 weeks of pretty much perfect and then they lost that Giants game and I was like, I'm staying off social media tonight because Romo lovers have about 12 weeks built up that they've been waiting to release and now they get the chance. I know that you know the organization really intimately, you know, people from staff all the way down to players, you know a lot of folks there. And one of the things we heard after the season was you know, maybe there was a lack of leadership at times, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And I know Mike Garifolo, that was one thing he reported near the end of the year,

is that he was hearing that was maybe the disconnect between their talent versus the results, as they were hearing maybe there wasn't the right accountability all the time with some of the guys on defense. We already talked about have they improved the roster. Do you think, I guess two part, do you think that was the issue last year? There may have been some leadership or some accountability issues in the locker room, and that was why there were issues on the field? And do you think that's been rectified? Do you think that there are the leaders in that law?

locker room right now to move forward and be successful in 2020? When you ask now and just extrapolate from things that have happened, you know, not being in the locker room and somebody says there is a medorship issue and they point it to the defense. I can extrapolate and say, oh, yeah, it had to be something there. Let me tell you what. Let me tell you what. Michael Bennett was, he had just got here, just got a pair of slippers in a couple of

of coffee. And he was the one jumping up in the locker room making statements or trying to galvanize the defense. You just got your slippers in a cup of coffee. You just got here. Do you know what that would have been like? I could have seen.

Say we're in the locker room and somebody had just gotten here and they try to step up. Charles Haley says, sit your ass down. I got this. You know what I'm saying? We've been here and this is not acceptable. So to that, you try to I believe saying, now, whoa, why did it fall on the guy that just got here for ever to step up and say stuff?

Why is he that comfortable stepping up and saying stuff? So obviously, he didn't see a clear head on that defense that's leading in some way that made him, that made him kind of shy away from stepping up. I say if Charles Haley, some of those guys, Ken Norton was in that locker room, the Dionne Sanders, no way. they got Michael Benning. And I love Michael Bennett. So absolutely, I think there's some issues there.

Now, that's a lot about personality, too. You know, when teams start jailing together, it's a lot about personality. It's a lot about how we spent any time together talking about where we're trying to go. And then those things show up on a football field. It's like, okay, if you are a leader of a football team, I can't spend a whole off-season not seeing you.

You know, I need the leaders. I need to see them out here working the hardest. I need to know that how much this matters to them. I can't have my leader not talk to me all off season and come to me in the fourth quarter. See, let's go, let's go. Because first of all, he's probably making more money. He's making $3 million. I'm making $600,000.

And he comes to my face, this school, you got to give me, blah. I'm saying, get out of my face. You don't want to make it all the money. Go win the game. You know, unless you spend time with me in the off season, you're building those reports and that relationship, then you can talk to me. So absolutely, I believe there was a deficit in that direction

with the Dallas Cowboys that I hope they fixed. All right, before we let you go, because your era of Dallas Cowboys football was my favorite because there were so many dynamic personalities, the work ethic, the approach to what you guys do. You and I had the opportunity to sit down and talk for athusio event in front of a group, and I learned so much about,

you and I did want him to Marcus Ware and found out some amazing stuff about him. One of my favorite stories is when you shipped your son off. When he was talking about living that life and wanting to play ball, I think the fans will love this because I think it speaks to who you are because for all your success and how lighthearted your teammates talked about you both on and off the field, you put in the work and you tried to instill that in your kids. So if you could, share the story of shipping your own son off. Well, it's just like, you know, I talk with my son and I asked, you know, my son was here in Dallas and he played at Prestonwood High School in Dallas and he, and he was doing some good

things. He was catching a lot of passes. I think you set the record for most passes in a game, like 22 passes in a game and all of that. And so I put them aside. I said, son, what is it you want to do in life? So, dad, what are you talking about? I said, what do you want to do?

You said, I want to play in the NFL. I said, really? You say, yeah, I said, okay. I said, tell you what, go to your room and pack a bag. He said, what do you mean? I said, go to the room, pack a bag. You said, why? I said, you got to get out.

So what do you mean? I said, son, listen. I said, playing in the NFL is not about a skill set. Everybody can run. Everybody can jump. Everybody can catch. You know, it comes down to matching the hunger of the dude across from you. You got to match that hunger.

Each in every play, each in every play. each and every day. I said, how can you match the hunger of those guys when they're playing for a life? They're playing to live in a house, to get a house, and you're living in this 20,000 square foot thing mansion. I said, go pack your badge, and you got to get out.

I sent them to live with my nephew in Florida, who's probably the top trainer in Florida. And it was so funny because, you know, they live in this little, you know, small apartment house. and he called me the first day. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight. real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me,

your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition, in the Mental Health Awareness Month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

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growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, IHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye says,

that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is. It's the second episode where we've discussed, correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. They have this TV with this big old thing on the back. I said, yeah, that's a regular TV. He said, you got grip pliers. I got to turn it with the plug. I said, yes.

I said, that's how now, now you are preparing yourself for life in the NFL. When he was here, I would come home. Man, he had girls all out in the, out by the pool, all laying out by the hot tub. They had them all up in the theater, in the theater, watch the movies. I said, what the hell is this? You know how hard I had to work to get this. You can't have it now and expect to reach your full potential. I said, do you ever let anybody come by the house in Florida?

He's gone, come on, come on, dude. I'm not letting anybody come by here. I said, now you're working on a career. Because now you don't want people to see you live like that. So you'll work hard to make sure you get your own. Now things are right. My bishop and I always talk about this. You know, we love our kids as well as we should.

But sometimes we want to, we always want to give them better than we had. And sometimes the best thing we can give them, Jane, is our struggle. Because that's what made us who we are. And we are keeping that away from them. So I wanted to make sure best I can, I could give them my struggle. Let's be honest, though, Michael, you're not going to make that god, that granddaughter of your struggle. I see she's got you just wrapped around your little finger. That's different.

Girls, girls, girls, girls are different. I see, and I, I'm, I'm sitting here. I'm taking my notes for my own teenage son. So I know, ship him off. Michael Irvin says ship him. That's good. You know what I told my girls? I told my girls this guy.

I told my boy, I said, listen, man, I told my boys, I said, when you guys leave, Mike, Michael has never come back home. I shipped him off. And he's not, I swear, he has never, he has never come home to this. You know, we have to force them to come home. So that's great. I say it's working, you know, it's working. But I told my boys, I said, once I ship you out, don't come back.

I'm taking one of those cement guns and I'm filling your room in. It's gone. It's gone. My girls, baby. My girls, your room will always. Girls never leave in. The girls are never, yeah. Right, right, right.

You always got a room. You always got a pot of gold in my rainbow. I got some money sitting aside. I would never let any dude tell you, you got to do this, this, and this, or he ain't telling you, you come home. Daddy got you, baby. You ain't got that, no dude force you, nothing.

Daddy going to take you in his girls forever. That's just what that is. You're my, I've missed you, Michael. The social distancing us not doing team with together has been tough. I appreciate you doing this Zoom with us and jumping on the podcast. We know you're a busy man. We've got schedule released this week.

Thank you for joining. show. Hey, thank you guys for having me. Thanks for having fun. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at

Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure.

And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring. at Discover the Forest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Joining us now is former Dallas Cowboys Defensive Tackle and former OU great

Tony Casillas. You can follow them on Twitter at T.C. Casillas or on Instagram or and on Instagram at Tony Casillas. Tony, how you doing? I'm doing great. I was great until I saw your Texas hoodie. Yeah. Because I know I'm talking to two longhorns, but that's okay.

My son actually graduated from Texas, so I had to hear for the last five years. And I always remember this. Texas is an academic school, Jane. Wait, I cannot believe you actually allowed that. You allowed your son to go to Texas? How did I not know that? I didn't allow. My wife allowed it.

No, I will give a plug. Texas is actually, you have to be very smart to get in there. And I'm talking to probably some over-educated people of yourselves compared to, I'm not going to discard my degree from open. Holland, but you have to be smart to be getting that school. So I have no problem. He's doing well now. He's out. So more power to it's just part of the whole like, you know, so it's a- Tony, look, full disclosure, Tony, I flunked out a summer school, which was the only way

I was going to get in. And then I went to Austin Community College for a year. And then I was denied journalism school three times. So don't work. I think your career turned out pretty nicely for you, Jane. We're all good. Thanks, Tony. You know, I did the same thing with Neville Gallimore, not on purpose, but when we interviewed Neville Gallimore, I was wearing the Texas shirt. And, you know, we've had a lot of discussion about the 88 club, but, you know, we haven't talked about the 75 club. Are we getting that started now? Because you got you and Neville, that's the 2-0-U alum defensive tackles wearing 75. Is that the next legacy we're getting going? Well, you know, it's not going to get all the glamour because, you know, this is not a sensational

position. It's not romance like 88 and CD Lamb. But yeah, I think we're should because we need to connect that that you know 75 not only 75 but we need a defense alignment to represent in this generation so I think it's a great way to start the you know the whole culture of that great number so I'm I'm all for that you know I'm always fascinated with how these guys come to get their their numbers how did yours come to be 75 well that's a great question because I wanted 92 when I was number 92 at Oklahoma. So I wanted my 92 number when I went to Atlanta back in 1986 when I was a draft of second

player in the draft and that's in a long time. So I got there and I said, look, I want number 92. And I said, well, you can't wear number 92. I'm like, what? It wasn't like I had to buy it from someone, Jane. There wasn't no one like to actually wearing it. I said, well, I mean, what's the deal? I mean, I didn't want 92.

Well, you can't. It's already allocated. You know, you have to have something in the 70s. Well, I thought about the bet one of the best. players, defense alignment in the league, and that was Halley Long. And I said, I'm going to go with 75. So I let it be known. That's the reason why I picked 75 because they wouldn't give it to me because I've Howie Long, the great 75 with the rip technique. So I wouldn't be like Howley. That's awesome. You know, I actually got into journalism because of Howie, watching Sundays,

him and Jimmy Johnson with my dad, the Cowboys. I mean, I sort of fan girl every time I see Howie Long. So that's a great story. You know, when you look at the Cowboys locker room that you played and you were here from 91 to 93 and then returned in 96, when you look at the structure of those locker rooms that you were in, a lot of

people talked about how there was a lot of drama there and, you know, there was a lot of side shows and then potential distractions. But there was always chemistry and there was always a good nucleus and everybody worked well together. One of the criticisms that Dallas's defense got last year after playing really well in 2018 and kind of falling apart in 2019,

some of the things we've heard are there may have just been some leadership and some chemistry issues. And so when it comes down to it, maybe they didn't have some distractions and things like that, but they were lacking that cohesiveness, I guess. How important is it, do you think, coming from a team that did have some distractions, maybe technically off the field, but still were a cohesive unit.

How important do you think that leadership aspect is on defense and holding guys accountable for their assignments and what they're doing on the field? Well, Bobby, first and foremost, you've got to have the talent. You have to have the ability. You have to have a really good, you know, players make a great offensively and defensively. We had that. I mean, it's a different area. We had so much depth of the defensive line.

And so we were able to compartmentalize that. I mean, we did things and I always, you know, the social media when you look at your phone and there's instant, you know, electronic media out there where you're at and what you're doing. I don't know how well we would have done back then, but we were able to compartmentalize how good we were because we were so we paid attention to detail. And it was just a different type, you know, for one, we had a coach who just wouldn't let us rest on the laurels. I mean, it didn't matter how great we were. He reminded me how bad we were and how bad we could become if we didn't take care of business. I look at this team. I, you know, it was a step back, without a doubt.

I mean, you look at last year, I mean, there was so much expectation coming off the year before. And then this really, really was an issue with them. You know, when you sign someone like DeMarcus Lawrence is making all this money, there's a high expectation. But I think ultimately they gave up a lot of big plays. And I think now it's different because you wear the star. And, you know, I'm just, you know, my experience of being able to. be on those winning teams is there's a brand there.

And sometimes you get caught up in the brand and you really are not actually doing it on the field, which represents what you, you know, how well that you're being admired and, you know, how many followers you have on Instagram think sometimes that takes over. So I think that's the process now. I think on the field, everything that you do as far as getting the job done and being really well, that's going to take care of us. You take care of that and the other thing will follow. And that's exactly what happened us.

We all were able to capitalize on how great we're on to fill, let alone all the things that we like to do and have fun. We were just able to compartmentalize it. What did you think of the Hot Boys brand? I really don't. You know, I'm not a proponent of it. I think the whole deal with San Francisco when there was this copyright and infringement everything, I think, you know what, you can be as big as your brand if you're producing.

And I think, you know, I follow the Marcus Lawrence. I think they do a lot of great things. I know they're doing things now, you know, during the corona, this pandemic and provide meals and doing great things. But, I mean, when you're arguing over a brand and the other team is in Sanford is in the Super Bowl and you're arguing over brand because you want to capitalize it, I don't really think you have, I really don't think you have much say in the whole copy. I mean, I get it.

But to me, I think it gets sidetracked. You really, again, and we've just talked about, you know, this Jane and Bobby, that, yeah, it's so like how big you are, you know, how many followers you have and what pictures you have and how people, you know, realistically want to be like you, but they can't because, for one, they're not going to be a professional athlete. Two, they're probably never going to be able to have the money that you have. So I think that it's lost in translation. I don't like that.

I think, again, you produce on the field, I mean, the sky's a limit. I mean, we've seen that. And I think that the people realize everyone to go around. And if they realize that, then they wouldn't get lost and worried about their brand and just really actually producing on the field. It is interesting, not to give too much away. But I know there are some guys that are immediately after games. They want their pictures.

What action shots do you have of us for us to put on our Instagram? and then you look at some of the other guys. I consider them sort of the silent killers on the team. They don't really have that sort of stuff on there. So I do agree with you. I've seen it. These guys come in as rookies and, you know, Jason Garrett always made them work for the star and then they get the star.

But you do see this transformation. Do you think Mike McCarthy is going to change that a little bit? First of all, I don't want to sound like this old man. Like, you know. Well, it's easy to call you a boomer here. Well, I'm an old man, but I don't want to. I don't want to process me because I understand the generation. You know, I'm on social media.

I mean, I'm an older, I mean, we all know that that's to be plugged in. You've got to have that. But I've never liked the whole, and again, this probably sounds old school about, you know, exchanging jerseys after the game. You've watched The Last Dance. I mean, I understand the whole Isaiah Thomas, not wanting to shake hands. I mean, it probably was the wrong thing to do. But that's kind of the vibe that I'd have after we got our asses kicked by the other team.

So, you know, Mike McCarthy, I don't know. I think that we all know that it's a little different the way they handle players at the star. And I think that's one thing that's great about that. And I think sometimes maybe that's, you have to cost yourself about that because you may be able to get away from more with the star because that's the brand. And I think players without having to go out on the field and produce are taking advantage of that.

And I think, I think there's a little resentment from some of the former. players that have been there that won championships that these guys haven't earned anything. And yet, you know, they're instant here. Now it's all about, you know, let's get you, you know, followers on Twitter and let's get your brand on Instagram. You know, that gets lost in everything. I think Mike McCarthy is a tremendous coach. I mean, I've been a big admirer him.

I love what he did with Green Bay. And I think he's going to be good for this team. I think we've already seen a lot of some of the, maybe people aren't given as much credit, but we've already seen the changes that he's made and some of the players he's picked and the guys that he's drafted. I think that's definitely a thumbprint of Mike McCarthy without a doubt. Now, you mentioned the word resentment,

and that maybe there's a little bit of resentment from the older guys. You know, you guys haven't earned this. Speaking of that term resentment, I know that's been a word that's been brought up this off-season. and in terms of if Dak Prescott's not going to take part in some of these virtual OTAs and be in these meetings while he's trying to get a contract done, would there potentially be any locker room resentment? Do you think that there's any chance guys in the locker room would have ill feelings

towards DAC's mode of trying to negotiate this and maybe not participating in some of these voluntary activities if that is the case? Or do you think that guys in that locker room look at it as, hey, you're trying to get your money, go get your money. Well, I think it's so different now, the way with this old pandemic, you know, guys can't go out to the facility. They can't, you know, there's no OTAs, there's no organized workouts. I mean, it's just totally just so weird to be able to have to go through that.

You look, I think Andy Dalton was just a, I mean, just an unbelievable opportunity for the Cowboys. I think Andy Dalton is a much better security blanket insurance policy than someone like Cooper Rush. And we all know this. We all know that ultimately that Prescott is going to get signed at the bill. I do think this so. I think that there is a thought process with Jerry Jones and organization.

And look, you know, this goes longer than we think. And we don't, I mean, we don't know even what the landscape of football is going to be like in September. That we sleep better at night knowing that we have someone like Andy Dalton that can be a starting course. As far as players, look, I think it's a business. Everyone gets what they need to get. That needs to get paid. But you know what? There's a difference between some guy asking for $10 million and a guy asking for $40 million. That's a lot. That's leaps and bounds. So, I mean, whether it gets 33 or 35 or gets a five-year deal, I mean, when you start talking about those numbers, I mean, look, I mean, it's kind of out of the stratosphere when you've got some dude making, you know,

the minimum salary and you got even a guy making 10 million it's like you know i can't even have that so you need to get what you can but i think ultimately i think now i mean with and it makes a little easier to maybe think you know sit across at the table with that press gun said well hey this is what we're going to offer you know think about it and you know if we don't get it done then we got an insurance policy it's tricky and i want to ask you you know as a player how do you get into those conversations with your agent wanting to, you've got an agent telling you this is your best time to seize, make the money that you deserve, this contract's important for you, it's important for your security, but also, as you said, there's an optics even more so than when you were playing about what you're asking

and how it looks to your teammates in the locker room. Well, I think you know that there's an unwritten rule. A quarterback is going to be the highest paid player. And you're like, okay, well, that's, I'd love to be a quarterback, but I'm not. and once you realize what a quarterback goes through, you probably don't want to be a quarterback because there's so much that goes along with that. You know, there's a two side of that, Jane.

I mean, an agent is trying to get as much as you can because whatever's percentages, that just means more that he's going to. I mean, so there's a two-fold thing in this, but I think ultimately there's a slot where these quarterbacks and any player makes. And, I mean, ultimately, you try to just, you know, just try to milk whatever you can on, you know, cross the table out.

of each other. And then after everything is kind of settling, you're like, okay, this is far as I'm going to go. And then finally, it just comes down to the player. It's like, you know, look, I'm good. You know, if we're only a million dollars apart, hey, or two million or whatever that may be, you know, you have that bottom number. So I think it's, you know, for players, it's hard to sit there and like, I'm passing up that much money. But ultimately, you're going to get it.

I think that that's the, you get a false sense of security, but you know, underlying that it's going to happen. But it's hard. It's a tough position to be in. Call me optimistic. I just think that this thing's going to get done because we saw the DeMarcus Lawrence thing get contentious. Ezekiel Elliott happens literally

at the last minute. He fell asleep and they had to call him multiple times to wake him up and get him to training camp there in Dallas. Now, I will say they didn't have a guy behind DeMarcus Lawrence that they could plug and play or for that matter, really Ezekiel Elliott, despite the fact

they had Tony Pollard and Alfred Moore. So I think it's interesting, this little cat and mouse game that these two are playing as we get closer to July 15th. And as you said, with this pandemic and, you know, with not having that touch point of having him, you know, in the building or around his teammates, it is, you know, last summer when people asked him about, I was like, oh, this thing's getting done. And it's fascinating to me that since the exclusive tag was put on, I was told just the other day they haven't had any meaningful conversations with this camp.

So interesting stuff. Well, and look, I mean, it'd be a lot different if you actually physically could, you know, not show up at the star or whatever facility you are. But since you are, you know, the players aren't able to go through the facility. So it's a little different anyway. So I think it'd be a little odd to not be able to physically be there around your teammates. But, I mean, Dak's going to be fine. He's a smart dude. I mean, he'll grasp on to Mike McCarthy system.

he'll be fine. And look, I think with the players like CD Lamb and some of the people they have coming back, I mean, they have a lot of opportunity. And I think it's very excited. I think, you know, for me, if I was Jerry under the circumstances of this being a new regime, a new offense, so to speak, I would try to have more sense versus get the deal done because I'm excited about a new opportunity. I mean, we all talked about Jason Garrett's still offense and, you know, what they try to do.

and really, really wasn't, was a standstill. So now it's just like, look, it's new, man. It's like getting a new car, right? So, you know, you're getting used to all the buttons and everything. You get a fancy car and it goes fast. I mean, this is an opportunity. So to me, that would be the only incentive for me to try to get something done so we can all get, you know, everyone back together whenever that may be.

We just don't know, right? Now, briefly just here as we're wrapping up, and I know we mentioned the Mike McCarthy thing, and a lot of people may not realize that. I know you had about a cup of coffee, just a, you know, a couple off-season time in Kansas City. And Mike McCarthy was there at that time as an offensive quality control coach. Do you remember him at all?

No, I don't. You know, my deal when I was in Kansas City was kind of weird because I signed a contract. And one got a second opinion on a medical issue. And Marty Sottheimer was a coach at that time. And I just didn't really feel comfortable, you know, going to training camp. But I didn't even know that Mike McCarty. I mean, he was probably then back then.

I mean, the skinny dude, man. Not that he is now. But, I mean, he was just a lot younger. So I don't remember that. But yeah, that's pretty interesting. Call it Control. Speaking of quality control, we talk about a lot of people having to control Michael Irvin, both on the field and off of it during his playing time.

something he's very candid about your favorite story about Michael during your playing time. Oh, God, there's a lot of them. I'm telling to think, I think the best story was on the way back from, we got beat by Washington. And it was a Monday night game. And we all know that Jimmy Haste to lose, right? I mean, he just doesn't. He can't, he can't think realistically that you're, that you should lose.

So we're losing, we lost the game, we're on the way back, and Michael Irvin, we said the player sitting in the back of the plane and the players are in the, the coaches

and all the staff in the front of the media. So we're sitting back there, we're playing, well, I'm not. And it's just, it's just, you know, you don't want to talk

because Jimmy's, he's pissed. So he's sitting up in the front. And so next thing you know, we see Jimmy walking back to the back of the plane and Michael Urban, and I think it was Frank. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

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follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist. Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-taped Little Kim's boo at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, Yeah, yeah. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Now you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Park. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Cornus, we're playing cards. And so Jimmy starts walking back. And you know how you see somebody like you just see the boss or someone, your teacher. You're like, just, you're quiet.

You get quiet. So we all get quiet. So Frank Cornice and Michael Overman were playing cards. And so we all get quiet. And so next thing you know it, Jimmy, Frank Cornice. got blessing. He passed away a few years ago. He's always laughing, right? So he's looking at it, he's laughing.

They're playing cards, and Jimmy, he didn't see Jimmy, he looks up. And Jimmy goes, what the hell you're laughing at, Frank? We just got our asses kicked by big redskins. And he looks at him, and he goes, I'll deal with tomorrow. And Michael Irvin grabs his arm right, and he says, man,

that's okay. He won't cut you. And so that was a good story. And Michael, man, you know, the one thing of Michael is that his bravado. I mean, that's a way he always is. I mean, when he's on, he's on, you know, he's a broadcaster, and this energy is always at a high level.

But the one thing I always remember with him, and you always talk about this, he always talked about the comparison with the 88s. When he demanded the ball, you know, it was just, it was just sincere. It wasn't like screaming or anything like that because he wanted the ball, he wanted Troy to throw on the ball because he would make plays.

And what I remember about him, he followed through. A lot of guys can't. say that. And that's one thing I always remember about Michael. I mean, he was always the energetic, he always passionate guy. If we needed to spark, I mean, you know, during training camp everything, that dude right there would always kind of, for some reason, he'd make us laugh or just do something where we just shake our head and like, okay, we're good. Well, before I let you go, I lied to you because when I get guys, you know, from that era, that was obviously the team I grew up on. And so I, football life with Troitman was one of

my absolute favorite ones that's ever come out. So don't tell me, you're pretty young. So what do you, don't even, don't even mention it. I, I'm not that young, but I was in high school during one of the parades. So what, okay, that's good. I'm not that young. No, I don't feel that bad now. So favorite story about Tony before we let you go.

Troy, rather. Oh, Troy, uh, man, you know what? He was such a fierce competitor. And when I say this, I don't need it in a negative way. He was constructive. He was stoically, if that's a word, constructive. He was like that, but in a way where he wanted people to respect him because that's the way he handled his position, his leadership role.

But we'd have two men on Friday, right? And we'd go through, it's kind of like a walkthrough, not a walkthrough, but it was, you know, we had pads every day. back in those days. So Friday, we had no page and we're like, this is great. So we had a two minute to very end and there was something very, you'd go through the 10 minute drill. But every time someone would mess up, you'd hear so many F bombs from Troy Aedman that everybody just shattered the whole field. And when Troy spoke, when he got pissed off like that, everyone listened. And he, that's him. We'd start back the drill and it was his perfection. So I always remember that. That

dude was just so he was such a leader and he wanted perfection especially on a Friday when a lot of us went out there and thinking you know this is kind of a blowoff day but the execution in too many just listen to him and you know rattle off a couple of earth bombs just kind of

we knew we were ready. It's so funny. Demarko Mori once told me that Jason Garrett demanded a lot of his players at practice and when you juxtapose people talking about Troy and Jimmy at practice even though DeMarco told me that I just have a hard time believing it was anywhere close to that sort of intensity.

And I think that's sort of intensity. Exactly. Jason, I think that was his word of preference too. I've been around Jason and you don't see. That's the thing about it. You don't see behind the curtain. But man, the preparation part of it, hey, it's serious business. And that's what makes those guys such great leaders.

I mean, all of them because they don't let that stuff pass by. Like, let's start it again. We'll perfect it. And then we'll be ready for the week. Yeah. Well, you are always so awesome to have on. I really appreciate you coming on. And if you're interested, we'd love to have you back. Hey, anytime. Thanks for having me. Even if you guys are a couple longhorns, I still love you. Thanks, Tony. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination,

our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this we reconnect with each other the forest is closer than you think find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council

if I could be you and you could be me for just one hour if you could find a way to get inside each other's mind walk a mile in my shoes walk a mile in my shoes walk a mile in my shoes We've all felt left out.

And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org, brought to you by the ad council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them, with commentary from experts. Visit adoptuskids.org

slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. All right, we are now joined by OU head coach, Lincoln Riley. A little uncomfortable for Bobby and I as a Longhorn alumna myself and Bobby, a Longhorn fan,

but I got to tell you, you got to get credit where credit is due. How about the Cowboys organization becoming a bit of of Sooner South for you. What is it that you're doing with just your recruiting and these guys that's getting them so many looks in the league right now, Coach? It's the efforts of a lot of people.

You know, we've got a great setup. You know, we've been able to recruit some outstanding players. We've got a development team kind of all around, strength and conditioning, nutrition, football, life outside of football, academics that's really pushed these guys. And we've been lucky to have some great ones that have been coveted by a lot of people. And then I think the other thing that people enjoy about our players is they know our guys

have played on the biggest stages. You know, they've played in major games. They've played in championship games. They've played in playoff games, you know, huge venues, great opponents. So, you know, I think that's a big part of it. And then I also look at, you know, kind of the history of Oklahoma players. And, you know, a lot of people want to focus on how many players that you have drafted that are opportunities in the NFL, and that's certainly important.

I don't want to discount that, but also of your players that get those opportunities, how many are, you know, like making it, you know, having me are becoming successful. And I think when you study the history of Oklahoma, both, you know, past and current, that's been a pretty good batting percentage. And so I think our guys are getting some great opportunities. And I think you'll have another class this year that will be ready to take advantage of those. C.D. Lamb is obviously one of those and one of these guys that count,

boys fans are most interested in. And I know a lot of people have seen just some of the glowing things you've said about CD during his career and some of the positive things. And everybody knows, you know, what a great player is and his skill set. But as somebody who has been with him the last few years, what would you say is the thing CD still most needs to work on as he enters the league? What would you say is the area he can sharpen the most now that he's heading to the NFL? Well, he's a versatile player, you know, and I think probably will be just adjusting to

some different coverages to some of the just consistently better, you know, DBs that he's going to see week in and week out. He's one of those guys, I don't know that there's one just like glaring weakness in his game, which is exciting, but I mean, he's going to need to continue to improve on all parts. I know that's kind of a boring answer, but it's the truth. The guy, you know, can do it all well, but he's still got a lot of room to grow. And I think if you look at his time here from when he came in as a true freshman to the way he's improved his game, improved his body, his speed. I mean, every part of him has gotten better.

And he's, and the reason of that is he's been a great practice player. He's worked hard. He's allowed us to continue to coach him very, very hard here, which we do, even when he's had success. And so I think if he, you know, if he keeps that attitude, which I fully believe that he will and stays hungry, this guy is going to continue to get better and better. And I don't see any reason why he can't be. one of the elite receivers in that league.

Is there something that stands out for you about your time with C.D. Lamb when you thought to yourself as a head coach, not only is this kid going to make it in the NFL, but this kid's special. You know, I thought he had a chance to be special from, honestly, the day we started recruiting him. I went out to watch him at Foster High School down there in southwest Houston and watched him do a seven-on-seven in between his junior and senior football seasons. and I thought at that point he was good enough to play for us then, which, you know, that's, you know, saying something for somebody still that young. And I just believed in our talks even before he got on campus, even before he signed with us with him,

or, you know, if you'll trust us, if you'll continue to improve, if you'll continue to stay humble with the start that you have and the ability you have, this could really be something special. And I just give the kid credit, you know, so many people in this day and age, whether it's in football, any other walk of life, when they have success, they tend to stop. wanting to listen to people or wanting to take, you know, criticism or wanting to be pushed. And this kid kept that. And I think that's why he's gotten better. It's been fun to see,

you know, kind of that journey from the very beginning. And, you know, I think that's the most exciting thing about him right now if you're a Cowboys fan is you got a very talented player that I think's good enough to help you right now. But, you know, he's always been extremely hungry to get better. And I think that's going to continue. A lot of people around the league right now are talking about, you know, you've got to have exciting passing concepts in the NFL now, you know, and they usually mention Sean McVeigh, you, Joe Brady, and they say, you know, you need to be doing creative things like those guys are doing. The running game is not the way you win anymore. I'm just curious from your perspectives and so many people think so highly of what you do with

offensive concepts. What role do you think the running game should play in modern football, both at the collegiate and the NFL level? Oh, I believe a huge part. I mean, I think, you know, if you look at us here, I think the lowest we finished in rushing in all the years we've been there, I think is maybe like 25th, 26, 27 somewhere in there. I mean, we have, we've really committed to it and it's made our passing game stronger. It's certainly helped our quarterbacks. It's, I think it makes you much tougher to defend. I've also been in places too where, you know, maybe because you didn't have the best old lineman or best running backs or you were overmatched where you had to throw to win. And so I do think certainly you want to get to a point where you can run the football.

I mean, there's no question about it. But at the end of the day, you have what you have. And you've got to find a way to make that work. You have to find a way to move the ball regardless. So, you know, do you have to have one? No, but certainly having a good running game makes everything a hell of a lot easier. Switching over to defense, we had Neville Gallimore on our show just a week ago. He's a really impressive kid.

And, of course, Cidiam getting a teammate on this. boys roster. What stood out for you about Neville and what can fans expect from him? Neville's such a cool story. You know, I mean, you know, coming from Canada, you know, I've compared it both doing some interviews and even, you know, talking to GM's, coaches, all that leading up to the draft process. When Neville got here, it was almost like bringing an eighth grader in in terms of how much exposure he had actually had to football. He was very raw. He was a smart kid, he always worked hard, but he just, he was so far behind bringing in, you know, the, the normal player that we would in terms of just what he knew about the game and how much he had

exposure he had to it. And so it was a kind of a constant process. His first couple of years, his athleticism always flashed, his effort always flashed. He's always been very strong in the weight room. I mean, he had the tools and he had some bright moments those first two years on the field. But then these last two, he took it to another level. He was outright dominant. He did it in a brand new defensive system for us this year, was able to learn that, process it, and easily have his best year.

So you're getting a quality, quality human being. You're getting a very explosive guy that'll leave it all on the field. You're getting an interior defensive lineman that can win one-on-one and pass-rush situations, which obviously is critical at any level of football. And so, yeah, I think his best football is ahead of him. I really do. just kind of where he started and because of the work ethic that this kid has.

So he'll become a fan favorite. They'll love the way he plays, love the way he communicates. And he's just a need human being. We became fans of him really quick, didn't we, Bobby? Oh, yeah, no. He was great and he was a lot of fun. And he took in good nature the Texas shirt, I forgot that I had on when we started the interview. But, you know, Bobby's kind of like Charlie Brown.

There's only a couple of outfits he wears during the week. And it just so happens that he's got two longhorn sweatshirts. and we had Tony Casillas on yesterday. He, of course, was wearing it. So he's not trolling OU. It's just he's like Charlie Brown. He only has so many shirts that he wears to work. Luckily for Bobby, we timed it out better today.

There you go. You get the gray today. Now, we are, even though we are Cowboys focused, we do get a lot of Eagles listeners just from the fact that, you know, they're checking on on the division rival. And I know one of the, I think really, you know, kind of unfortunate because I know from talking to people, what a good guy is.

Some of the unfortunate reactions is some of the hate that streamed down on social media for the Jalen Hertz pick. And I know that you know what kind of a player he can be. For anybody listening to who may be an Eagles fan, why should they not be upset about Jalen Hertz going to Philadelphia? Oh, man, there's a lot of reasons. You know, for, I don't know the bad blood between that rivalry, but the brain trusts there in Philadelphia the last few years has got a Lombardi trophy. a lot of wins, a lot of success. Those guys know what they're doing, and they were very, very thorough in their evaluation of Jalen.

And they've got a plan. They've got one of the best offensive coaches in football and Doug Peterson. They've got a great GM. They know what they're doing. And that position obviously is so critical in that league. And then to have a guy like Jalen that you can come in that can develop, they can already do so many things, day one, that's an unbelievable presence in the locker room, which I, you know, People talk about that, but I don't know that everybody really understands how important that is.

And Jalen just got that vibe about him. He's just a winner, and he's going to make people around him better. So it'll be fun to see how they use him. I think it makes all the sense in the world. I mean, you just, you know, you think about all the money, time, effort, all invested into NFL seasons. And then, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're, the one snap happens and your main quarterback goes down and you've got no answer after that, I mean, And, you know, you're one snap away always. And so I love the pick.

I love the fit for Jalen. I know they're very excited to get him. And I think the Philadelphia fans, as they get to know him, see what kind of worker he is, see how he performs on Sundays. I think they'll love him as well. You know, I've covered the Cowboys on and off since 2004. And so I've gotten to listen to a lot of Stephen Jones and Jerry Jones over the year. And when I hear you just talk football, the importance of the running back,

that backup quarterback position. even the way that you just go down some of the memory lane on your players and the way you speak about them. I think that if you got in a room with Stephen or Jerry, I could see how you might enamel them a bit. So the biggest question for a lot of Cowboys fans, how interested were they in you as the head coach? Oh, you know, I stay away from those things. You know, those are a lightning rod, as you guys know, as much as anybody. You know, listen, they're one of the elite organizations. They do an absolutely tremendous job.

You know, it's been, it's been fun, you know, getting to be here close to them and be around them a little bit. But I've also lucky that, you know, I've probably got the best college job in America and a place that we're very happy. So, you know, I think we'll leave it at that. I also wanted to ask you about DeMarco Murray. You know, you talked about the emphasis on the running game. What's having a guy like DeMarco Murray like in your building, obviously a very proud sooner? I got to think it helps with recruiting, but also to have his skill set in there working with some of your young guys. Yeah, it's been awesome.

You know, he's just, as you know, he's just a really neat individual. You know, he's done so much already in his life at such a young age. And obviously, it's kind of been tremendous at everything he's done. He's been very, you know, very impactful with our current players, just to have a guy that has kind of led that life that a lot of these guys would love to emulate. Obviously, you know, being able to do it at Oklahoma and relate so much back to our guys. but then also he's pretty wise beyond its years. You know, you can tell the guy, like a lot of players think they can just leave the field

and immediately coach. And they've, well, I've been a player. I've been in it. I've seen it all. And a lot of guys get in it. And you could tell when they were as a player, like they have blinders on. They had no idea. A lot of things are going on around him.

And DeMarco, as you visit with him, you can tell this guy always paid attention. He was always learning, very aware of what was happening. And so he's progressed just like he did as an outsider. And just like he did as a player, he progressed very quickly as a coach. And as a great knowledge, great understanding of what we want to do, it's going to be a tremendous recruiter. So he was a great hire. We're thrilled to have him.

Well, you've helped make Texas OU great again. And like I said, I know that you are incredibly busy. You guys are dealing with the uncertainty of a football season, as so many are. I know here at the NFL network, we talked about it last night. We are expecting the season to go full board, but, you know, we sort of prepare ourselves as anyone does for, you know, catastrophic events, whether that be a hurricane, tornado damage, you name it. So that's kind of how we're looking at the season. So I hope to see you guys on the field.

And again, thank you so much for your time. Maybe we'll talk to you again next year when you get a couple of other guys that come to Dallas. That sounds great. Thanks for having me on. You got to stay safe. All right. If you thought this show was jam-packed, tune in for our next one. and I when we started our podcast, said what would be our dream guest? And we both unanimously

said one of our favorite Cowboys players, Tio. Ter allowance. We are going to dedicate an entire podcast to Tio because we know that there's just that much ground to cover with them. So you want to tune into that one. That one drops for you next week. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1,800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 flowers

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