The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Crushing Philly Loss Reaction, Amari Cooper 4th Down Controversy With Cowboys Writer Dave Helman

Episode Date: December 24, 2019

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby unpack Sunday’s crippling loss to the Eagles. Also, David Helman from DallasCowboys.com stops by with his thoughts on the decision to take Amari Cooper off the field, and where the Cowboys go from here.Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett. My mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Did you know Amazon provides ways of working that fit your lifestyle? They know you value your time outside of work, juggling families, school, friends, or other activities. That's why they offer a variety of shifts that work for you. There are full-time, part-time, and even temporary opportunities that can work with your schedule, with great starting pay and sign-on bonuses. If you want a career that fits and adapts to your lifestyle, head to Amazon.com slash apply. Amazon is a proud, equal opportunity employer.

Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt. A Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. Wentz, end zone pass. I don't know what the final score is going to be, but I know which team came out, readier to play. Prescott to the end zone pass is broken us.

Take over. We had in mind stepping back up here and getting on a run, and having some good things happen. This is a disappointing setback for that locker room and for all of us. I know it is for the fans. The best way to sum up week 16 for the Cowboys, Murphy's Law. Anything that can go wrong will, and it did. What a rough one for the Cowboys,

especially coming off a game where you put up 44 points of total offense against a Rams team who looked like a legitimate playoff contender against the 49ers the night before on Saturday. How do the Cowboys come out and put up that performance where they didn't score one touchdown against an Eagles team that was made up with a MASH unit? Yeah, I mean, it was like a bunch of guys who were working at Home Depot last week

who are now, you know, out there covering 1,000-yard receivers. I mean, their receivers were, you know, former AAS players and things like, bad and you end out losing this game. And the game that, even though it was a one possession game is what the final score was, it never felt close. It felt like from the jump that they were just, they were outmatched, they were outwilled. It really did.

It felt like the most lackadaisical, soft, uninspired. unmotivated performance they've given all year. Just go ahead and insert every adjective. I mean, honestly, because that was the thing is that it's, you know, from a talent standpoint, there is absolutely no reason why the Eagles should have beaten you yesterday. The Eagles were missing, you know, half their starters or something. Let's go opening possession, three and out. They followed that up, three and out after the Eagles had scored their first touchdown in the game.

Field goal, punt, punt, field goal. Then we get to the second quarter. Humble, punt, punt, field goal. It was, now look, Dak Prescott didn't have a great game yesterday. I don't, and, you know, here's the deal. I don't think anyone expected him to be all-world or hurled the ball around.

I mean, given the fact that, you know, look, he said that he had played through this AC joint injury before. He didn't have two days of throwing practice here at the star. He admitted after the game that maybe there was a little rust there as a result of it. Sure. But where were his teammates? I mean, the fact that this guy, not only did he play in this one, but he literally lowered down and took the boom early on in that game.

And I just remember going, oh, my gosh, like, why put your body on the line? And I'll typically, I'll watch the game while also having the radio broadcast on in headphones. And when that play happened, Babe Laufenberg was, you know, who's the obviously former NFL quarterback played for the Cowboys and Redskins. and he's the color analyst on the Cowboys Radio Network, and he said, you know, I don't know, if I'm a coach on the sideline, I may tell him, you know, hey, good job, good, you know. Good effort.

Yeah, but let's not do that again. Let's not lead with your shoulder into a defender, you know, trying to pick up the first down. But, you know, he told us last week he was going to be that way. Dak said he's not going to think in the game, well, that's my good shoulder, so let me lead with that one. He was just going to go out there and play. And he did that.

He didn't play great, especially in the second half. A lot of the first half was a lot of drops and what seemed like a lot of issues there. The second half is when passes started sailing on him, it seemed like. And he was missing receivers. And so it was a bad effort pretty much all the way around. The defense settled in after what was a rough first couple opening drives. But, I mean, they put them in a hole. They put them in a hole that they had to try and pass out of.

And it wasn't working on Sunday. And we discussed that Miles Sanders and Greg Ward Jr. were the guys to focus on, and they're the ones that took advantage of your defense. I thought it was interesting, Chris Rashard, you know, pulling Cheeto out of the game early, which I hadn't seen that in my time covering the Cowboys. I can't remember the last time a player was benched. And so, you know, look, full disclosure, Cheeto is one of my favorite guys on the team. I just, I think he's got a spirit about him.

I feel like he approaches it the right way. Does it always translate on the football? No, on the football field, no. But here's what he had to say to me post-game. Yeah, I messed up on a while. I made a type of, I didn't make an aggressive more. And that's what you're doing. So Country Sarre got mad and Jordan.

Those are the right decision, I feel like, especially, you got to perform out there. So we all believe in Jordan. We believe in all that believe in each other. So I know there were some people out there that said that they got a different response from him. And so I think a lot of people thought that a lot of people didn't think was satisfactory. Right. And they sort of dismissed it. I looked into this guy's eyes.

I saw him at his locker message received. And I just... It's so... And I got to tell you, Bobby, I don't even know how to characterize the locker room. I almost feel like there was a sense of apathy that it set in. I remember, and this is the season we always, you know, we've compared it to a lot. The 2008 season, when they were seemingly as talented as ever coming off their, and three, and it was a mess, and it was a chemistry mess.

And there was a big story out of there, out of that season. They lost the season finale to the Eagles. It was the NFC East championship game of sorts. And when they got beat, it was like 44 to 6. They're flying back from Philadelphia. And Mark Friedman, Frito, was a producer on 13-10, on the ticket station here in Dallas on Norm Hitzkiss's show. And Norm had asked him, you know,

what was the mood like on the plane? And he said, honestly, kind of relieved. The players seemed kind of relieved. And that caused a big stir at the time. I'm not telling any, like, secret stories here. That was a big story in Dallas at the time when that happened. But, you know, you kind of do, I obviously didn't cover that team, but there are times where you kind of get that same sort of sense,

not relieved that maybe this is all over, but you do get the sense that that whole locker room is tired and not necessarily physically tired. It's like an emotional tired. They are not equipped to go deep in the playoffs. It just feels like they've got their feet stuck in mud. And every time they've gotten a little bit of traction, it's like they're stepping in a quicksand.

And they're losing their footing again. You know, to your point, I thought after that 4421 game against the Rams, they were going to catch fire. And what a better team to do it against. Now, granted, it's going to be a hostile environment. But what, you know, when you look at Carson Wince leading the league in fumbles since 2016,

he hasn't been on point this year. Generated lots of turnovers in October against him. All of the injuries to both the defensive and offensive side of the ball and they still can't get it done. You know Dallas Goddard to the one weapon you've got to focus on. You beat you early and often. Yeah, and I feel like it's such a weird contradiction, because there are in some ways you feel like if you describe that situation

and the way they came out of the Rams game and what was set up before them and then they just lose, that would sound like without seeing the game, that team must have quit. And you watch them and it didn't feel like quit. It looked like they were playing hard. It's just there's something broken here. And I don't know what it is. And I almost get the sense, you know, going back, I sort of digress there.

Sorry, operating on like two hours of sleep this morning because I was on a 5 a.m. flight back from Philly after getting to bed at, you know, 1130, 1145 monitoring the whole plane debacle and we can get into that in a little bit. I got the sense, you know, it's all about the process here, right? You watch the film, you put the game to bed, you look forward. I don't feel like sometimes they marinate in the losses, or they marinate enough in the stench that was the last game. And that's where I feel like there was sort of this apathy that it set in, this frustration

with, you know, maybe, you know, everyone's talked about. they're sniffing themselves. Maybe they're like, we are, you know, we are good football team. Maybe they've convinced themselves now. It's not us. It's his coaching staff. You know, next year we'll go get them. I really don't feel like they're sniffing themselves anymore. I do feel like the arrogance is pretty much gone. I think they are bruised at this point, but it does, it does beg the question, what's the problem? And it's so easy to attack Jalen. But why the swipe? Why the clear eye view post on Twitter when you're, like, what I respect about Sean Lee and some of these guys, they act like they've been there.

Right? Sean Lee had another strong game. He didn't have the big splash plays like he had with the sack and the interception against the Rams. But he was efficient out there. Go and look at Jalen's numbers and his tackles for loss. I think he's got two. It's been a seriously regressed year. He looks more like the 2017 version than he does the 2018 version.

And the 2017 version had a lot of problems. I think that... And I, and I, again, I don't want to unfairly pick on Jalen, but it's easy to because it may, he, the way he portrays things on Twitter, even the sense that he deserved a pro bowl vote.

Yeah. It's wild to me. It's almost like perception is not reality for them. And the one guy when I talked to in the locker room that just seems to get it really is Michael Bennett. Yeah. When I have these conversations with Michael, welcome to my new podcast,

learn the hard way with me, your host, therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up guys? This is CliverTaylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on the Army. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe.

On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team.

and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. He's not throwing people under the bus.

He's not dogging anyone in that locker room. In fact, he was complimentary of the coaching staff. He said he gets them. them, they get them ready to go for these games. He says it basically comes down to players and the need to execute. Which is something we've heard all year long from all of them. Right. They have,

a lot of the guys have put their hands up and said, we need to execute. Jaylon Smith has said, day of, but what I respected about Michael Bennett was there wasn't a quitting him because he said he has a championship mindset. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com.

From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate. covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.

They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest

Service and the ad council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. The guy that was so down on himself after this game, Michael Gallup. When I talked to him, he said he cannot be the reason they lose a game. again. It's embarrassing. He said it won't happen again. I honestly wouldn't place much of that game on Michael Gallup, though. I mean, that was a well-defendant play at the end.

I understand he had the one big drop, but I mean, he also made a number of plays for them yesterday. He had almost 100 yards receiving. He was probably their most reliable target on Sunday. He felt like the hut hand. I can understand what they would go to him in that moment. And so, yeah, I don't, and I get, like, players are always, generally, they're super self-critical, and they expect a lot of themselves.

He is one of the most critical of himself. To an unrealistic extent a lot of times. I think a lot of these players, they hold themselves to a standard that isn't realistic to always keep. And he's probably one of them. But, you know, I think there are lots of other directions you can look for problems yesterday. And problems for this entire season. Again, I think this entire season comes down to there's something up with the chemistry. There's something broken about this chemistry that was working.

working last year. And I should also point out, I feel like this is sacrilegious going here. I know some people have gone a lot harder. Oh, you're going to say something about Romo? Close. I'm going to go here with Jason Witten. Oh.

If you look at that final play, Dax's first look, Jason Witten. Were they going to try to do the Y option there? I mean, seriously, how predictable is that? That's where his eyes first go, and then he gets it to Michael Gallup.

And granted, they had... To be fair, he also, though, could have been trying to look off a safety, trying to get a safety to go down and free up the cover. Sometimes quarterbacks will do that. Possibility. But there was a point in the game, too, where they went to Dalton Schultz. And Blake Jarwin has shown how effective he can be when you go to him.

I mean, I just think about the Giants game in weeks, what, the final week when the Cowboys were up there. I was there for that game, three touchdowns. We saw him in the Giants game this year to open up the season. Yeah. He made a big play and made a big catch against the Saints that set up their only touchdown that day. He makes big plays. Well, the biggest knock when Jason Witton was coming back, I was told the coaching staff was split on it.

And that was because they were afraid that Jason Witten was going to come in here, and he was going to take away plays from the young guys and stunt their development. That was the biggest knock on Jason Witten all these years. And when he left, they didn't have anyone behind him. So I was told he was going to be used sort of like a Sean Lee. In other words, coach up the young guys behind you and be ready if we need you. Okay. Hasn't really been that.

Sean did that admirably, but I thought it was interesting early in the season when Jason Whitten said they're going to have to basically beat him out to get on the field. And no one questions

the work ethic. No, he is as fierce a competitor as exists in that locker. The guy had a one-handed catch behind him against the Rams. So I don't want to knock him too much.

That's why I cautioned that. There was a, he had a bad drop yesterday. He was, I don't know that anybody's going to, you know, knock you too hard for that one. He's... He probably's knocking himself, to be fair.

He's got some low approval ratings right now, I think, if there was, you know, a poll of Cowboys fans. But overall, I mean, I think the biggest thing you're seeing right now just across the board is nobody's... There's hardly anybody on this team right now that's playing up to their ability. Even when you look at... And why is that? And that's the thing is that you just, you can't understand where is this coming from.

It's like the million dollar question, Bobby. I can't tell you how many shows that I've been asked to go on both NFL Network. I did Dan Patrick, a couple of other places. And, you know, they always want to talk to the reporter that's inside thinking that you have the answer. Normally, I feel like I've got a good sense of things. I've got a pulse on the situation. I can't get a good answer. A great example last year, everybody knew what those issues were when they were struggling.

Linnehan. Yeah, even if they didn't want to say it publicly. Vanilla offense. You knew it was Linnehan. You knew there were issues with, you know, there were Cases. weaving core. You knew they had to go out and get, you can always identify,

you know, as much as they didn't want to say it was distracting, 2017, the Zieg stuff was very distracting to them and it caused issues. You can always identify what the issues are.

This is the first year where it does kind of feel like we can't come up with an answer, which makes it feel like there is going to be an answer down the road. Bobby, the one thing you can't say about this offense

is that it's been predictable this year. Yeah. You would have ever predicted, fourth and eight. You're going to rely on table. on Austin as a guy to beat your D.Bs and you're going to put two tightens there. Would you have guessed that?

No. It didn't feel like a Cowboys movie. No, and I know everybody's been big on the Amari Cooper not being in there. And we'll have Dave Hellman from Dallas Cowboys.com here in a sec. We'll talk with him about it. But I know that's been the bigger thing. To me, why is Randall Cobb not out there? Why are you going too tight?

Not just, let's a, let's remember, yeah, three catches 52 yards on that final drive. He was largely responsible for getting you down the field where you did. the thing that's also funny to me is that you had a Mari Cooper on the sideline, you had Randall Cobb on the sideline, and then you had Zekeel Elliott and pass protection. Zeke wasn't even running anything to the flat or doing anything. It was Austin and Gallup and whatever Witten and Jarwin were trying to do. For eight yards. Yeah.

And it's, I mean, I mean, we've seen swing passes and things like that to the running back that can be, you know, first downs that they can pick it up and they had Zeke and pass protection. They didn't have Randall Cobb out there. who Randall Cobb, his entire career, his reputation is as a chain mover, as like the reliable target when you need eight yards, he's going to run a good slant or, you know, and I mean, you are talking about paying Amari Cooper a lot of money,

and you have both of them off the field. I mean, that's the thing I wanted to know. I mean, I know everybody's heard the Amari Cooper was gassed. That was, you know, been a big line. That was something that Garrett said. But was wild as he said he wasn't gassed. Yeah, Amari has said.

he was not. He says he wasn't gassed. I've asked multiple people. They say he's healthy, didn't end up on the entry report. I think it's fair to characterize the response that I got. Is he 100% no, but who is this time of year? Yeah. I think that's fair. I do think he also said that they should have had more go routes. I do think he's a little more banged up than other people are at this time of year though. But I don't think it's anything. I don't think any worse than like a Dak Prescott who's throwing with an AC joint spring. Yeah, but I do think I don't think Amari Cooper has played a pain-free game this entire season. No. But I did think this was interesting. I reached out to one of my sources. I was like,

all right, what's going on at this team? I'm trying to figure it out. Here was a response. Everything. Bad scheme, bad coaching, overworked team, which I thought was fascinating. I don't know if I'd ever say they're overworked. I talked to a defensive lineman. This is somebody who's not on the team anymore. The defensive lineman had told me that they practice harder. the defense under Rod Marinelli practices harder during the week than any team in the NFL and that some guys have felt before

like they're almost a little gasped by game day. That the practice regimen is so intense for the defense. You're telling me that they practice harder than the Patriots and their defense? I'm just telling you what the player had told me. That was somebody who had some knowledge

of what goes on around the league. And they said that that was an issue for them they felt like. And that was part of why they go so heavy on the rotation with the defensive line is because guys wouldn't have fresh legs if they had to play majority of snaps. This was another interesting thing. Bad strength program. Have you ever seen a franchise with so many back issues? Start back with Romo, Demarcus Ware, Tyron, Smith, Tyrone Crawford, LVE, Dez, all back issues. Is that, well, I mean, LVE's neck. But, I mean, unless it's

That's spinal. But I mean, yeah, it's, that's something that is worth poking around on. But it is, I mean, and for years the knock. For years, the knock was. Soft tissue. Yeah. You've heard about hamstring issues. Soft tissue injuries.

They haven't really had hamstrick. They haven't really had two Brits credit. They haven't really had any hamstring issues. By the way. They haven't really had any hamstring issues in recent years. Yeah, no, and that's the thing. I think that that's an interesting criticism because I have never actually heard that on or off the record. I've never heard that whispered around about the Cowboys, but I mean,

it's worth asking about, I guess. The thing like I think we always hear has been, yeah, I'm not doubting it. It's just I've, I've not heard that before. And it may just be that nobody's ever thought to ask. How's the strength program there? But that's what's, I think what's going on with this, this year, Bobby, when I've reached out to people, it has been a collection of issues. I feel like I've been running down so many things that have been thrown out as it pertains to what's wrong with this team. And how is that possible? Because when you look at last season and all the optimism this team had, I mean,

they got into the divisional playoffs. And it felt like they were so close. I mean, we weren't the only one saying, this is a Super Bowl caliber team. Yeah. They're anything but they get into playoffs. They're going to get in eight and eight. There's going to be teams in other divisions. Which just for the record.

I do not think this team is making the playoffs. That I've won 11 games they're going to be in the outside looking in, which is a discussion we can have another day. But to think that they could then go in a hang with the 49ers and the Saints when they can't even do it on the road at Philly against a beat-up team, that is wild to me. And then, again, like I said, they make you feel, they pull you in. They make you feel like this is a team that's catching fire.

They beat the Rams, and then the Rams turn it around and go and make the 49ers look average. Well, and I mean, that's, that was sort of the same thing they did in 2017. They made you believe. And the 49ers right before that, beat the Saints. Yeah. Crazy. No, I mean, and that's it.

Here's the thing. And I've said this before, and I know there are people who disagree with me, but I absolutely believe when everything is clicking for all 32 teams, if you said all 32 teams are going to go out there and they're going to play their best football on both sides of the ball, they're going to play their most complete game. I really do think Dallas beats all but maybe two teams in this league. Like, I think Dallas is that talented when everything's clicking for them. And that I think that their very best beats the very best of a lot of other teams.

The problem is that they can't. I don't know if I buy that this season. I would have said that in years past. I mean, when you, okay. And I would have started with Dak Prescott because of him. Think about what the very best of this team is, though. The very best of this team can hold an offense without any touchdowns. Can hold them under, you know, 10 points.

can hold them to 240 yards. The very best of the offense can throw for 400 yards, can run for 300 combined yards. They are very, very complete when they're clicking. It's just it's very difficult to get them on there. We saw, you know, this same Eagles team that made them look so bad with six, seven guys that weren't even playing in the last game.

We saw them beat them by almost 30 and just manhandle them in every phase of the game. It doesn't make sense. There is a disconnect here. I also think an underrated storyline was just because Kai-Four, Warbath was executing the kicks doesn't mean special teams was firing on all cylinders. Look where they were punting the ball. They cannot.

Chris Jones. Chris Jones has had a bad year. They so rarely are able to run kicks out of the end zone with Pollard. And when they do, Tony Pollard has not been good on kick returns this year. He doesn't see that. That's where I feel like you miss Cole Beasley a little bit. Well, on the pun returns, yeah. But I mean, even on the punt returns, you haven't gotten much from Tavon or Randall Cobb or anything else.

They just, they are as just blah, a special team's unit as you can pretty much be. They have not been good at all this year. Now, they do have, there are a few bright spots on their kick coverage. Ventile Bryant's been good on kick coverage. You've had CJ Goodwin who's been good at that this year. They do have guys who can get down the field and wrap up and that's been good. Punk coverage has been good for the most part, but they've been gashed on kick returns at times. They don't get their own kick returns.

It's been brutal. I honestly think regardless of who gets kept around, who's asked to stay, I think Keith O'Quinn, the special teams coach, I think he's gone. There's no doubt in my mind that you will have a new special teams coach next year because that has been maybe not weighted for importance has been the worst, but just on a flat surface, like grading everything equally, the special teams has arguably been the worst unit they have this year. And they took so long to move on for Brett Maher.

They did. But I felt like it came down to him literally saying I rest my head on my pillow at night, just fine. I'm one of the few who understands why they hung on to Brett Maher as long as it, because there was. Enlighten me. There was a little bit, I mean, he, the canon of a leg that he has that a lot of people can't, you can weaponize it. There are benefits to having that there. I'm not saying it was right, but I'm saying I do understand why they did it as long as it. If your team is good enough and it scores, you don't need to weaponize from 60, 68 out.

But think about who's coaching them. Think about the philosophy that's coaching them. The philosophy of, you tell Jason Garrett, he doesn't have to get 10 extra yards in order to settle to get a tie in the fourth quarter. Oh, wow, that's 10 extra yards. I don't have to get it. It's a conservative bent on it, but it's one that your coach had. So I understand why they thought he was such a weapon. I think for all of the strengths that...

Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the Hardway with me. host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, guys? This is CliverTaylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted. this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some

playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jason Garrett has in the department of keeping the locker room intact, getting them ready for the game in terms of the mental headspace, getting players to fight for each other

and their team. I think that that was one of his strengths for a long time. I've never assigned a strength to him as being a guy that you think is going to out-coach or give you a distinct advantage in a game. you see other coaches in this league. I would have said Mike McCarthy over the years. I would say Kyle Shanahan, certainly. I would say even Sean McVeigh,

even though it's kind of been an off year for him, and he looked average against the Cowboys. Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, Harbaal, go down the list. Those are guys you know are going to have a distinct advantage when they're on the opposing sideline. I never feel like with Jason Garrett, this team has a distinct advantage. No.

And I think the only time they, maybe have. And with your career on the line, your season on the line, you signed off on that final play on the final drive. I think that's why everyone's so focused and locked in on that particular moment. You signed off on a lot of things in that game that seemed surprising, whether it be the random, you know, we're going to run an option here to, you know,

DAC rolling out with his bad shoulder and then pitching to Tony Pollard on short yard. It was a game filled with bizarre decisions. And I can't figure it off if that's them being cute. They think they're getting creative. If that's them trying to minimize DAC having to overthrow in this game, even though they were loading the box. I wonder. It's just not competence.

I wondered if they just didn't, and I know they say this. I know Zieg told you, plays are the same when I go in there. I wonder if they just didn't trust Tony Pollard to run inside. And so, and they didn't want to go with a straight pitch. They wanted to do something to keep the defenders a little. little boxed in and pitch. And so I wonder if they just didn't feel confident that he was going to be able to get through Fletcher Cox and the rest of that big Eagles front on short yardage. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you

that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800 flowers. for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go.

Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toy. are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed

the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now, the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes!

Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly. in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. brought to you by Nita

and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this,

we reconnect with each other. The forest is close than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. We now welcome in one of my guys. We've had them on the podcast before and had a lot of fun with them. And I really appreciate you coming on today because Dave Helman, Dallas Cowboys.com, one of those trapped, held hostage on the buses, stationary at the link. I didn't get another bit of insult to injury. Cowboys not able to get out of there.

and just have for you guys stuck with them. Yeah. What was that like? Actually, can I be real, real? It was a blessing in disguise for me. And that's selfish on my part. But I hate road games because, like, we travel with the team, so we leave immediately after the game ends.

We don't have Wi-Fi on the flights home. First world problems. Oh, it's a total first-world problem. But basically, we, like, it's hard to get worked on when you're going home from a road game. Like, typically I don't post my stories and my content until we get back to Dallas after a game. So when I realized the buses weren't moving, I was like, oh, my God, I might actually be able to knock out all my writing before we fly. And get some sleep in. So I literally, like, I cranked out two stories while we were on the bus and did what I needed to do and took a nap on the flight home.

I was like, this is one of the best flight homes I can remember. So, yeah, we were stuck on the bus for a while, but very selfishly, it worked out well for yours truly. I'm not mad. It is interesting. So there are a couple of local media stations that fly on the team charter along with the players. And I did that when I was with CBS 11. And it is interesting because you get like a four-course meal when you're sitting on the plane, but you're also on that plane with the players.

Yeah. And after a win like, after a loss like that, after getting stuck at the stadium for an hour and a half to marinate and linger in the loss, what was it like? I guess I'm going to be anti-climactic. It felt the same. I mean, losses are like black clouds. Like when you lose a game like that, like everything is just muffled.

Like, it seems like every conversation is in a whisper or a mutter and nobody's happy. Nobody really wants to, like, do anything other than, like, look ahead and just get through the flight and get home. And also, the team is, the team is in their own quarters. like they're in the back of the plane and they're doing their own thing. But just you could hear a pin drop, honestly. It's just, it's a miserable place to be after a game like that, really.

When you look at just how the game itself went and everybody's doing their second guessing and, you know, talking about should they have run the ball more early, should DAC have played without the practice reps? Did they quit? Yada, yada, yeah. What was just, I guess, your overall take from the game? Well, what was the thing that really stood out to you? Did you see lack of preparation?

Did you see just a team that was better than them? What did you see? What did you come away with from the game last night? My two biggest impressions, well, I guess it all kind of like rolls into one. My big impression was like the Eagles were playing like a team that was desperate to win a game and get to the playoffs. And it's always tricky questioning heart and motivation. But from the outside, it didn't look like the Cowboys were playing that way, period. And I don't think that's better encapsulated than the second half when

Obviously, Amari Cooper and Randall Cobb weren't in on fourth down, but, like, they were coming in and out of the game, like, throughout the second half. Like, I'd have to go back and watch, but there was a stretch where Coop was out on the sideline for, do you have it written down? You're such a pro. He was out for, like, it felt like five or six plays in a row where he, and like, in the press box, people were like, did Cooper get benched? Cooper got benched.

Like, Tavon's in the game. And maybe that was just part of their rotation. But what kind of crappy rotation is that? I mean, even as poorly as Amari Cooper seem to be playing, don't you want your best players in the game with a chance to get you a win that gets you into the playoffs? So here was what's so confusing

about all that for me. Cooper after the game says he's pulled, right? Yeah. And you almost got the sense that, you know, he even said we should have been doing more go routes. Like he was he, what I like about Amari and a lot of people don't, I don't feel like they get the same takeaway. He doesn't really

beat around the bush with you. Like, there's not a lot of, lot of like conjecture with him. Yeah. He literally tells you very stoically and very matter of fact, here's how I feel about things. He's almost emotionally undetit, like, undetached. I would agree.

So I thought that was interesting. So I thought it was important to reach out to individuals who may or may not have had a hand and how this thing went down. Here's what I was told. They completely disputed the notion that he was benched. Okay. They said instead they wanted to give Tavon Austin a shot at the defensive backs because the Eagles were having a hard time with a smaller quick guy.

guys. For more context on that, they said Cooper caught the ball on plays 58 and 59, ran a go route on 60, 7 route on play 61, he had no gas left on the next play to run another go route. That's what they wanted there. Tavon subbed in, and they said, if you go back and you look at the video, he wins the route. I asked to house Cooper's health. I was told not 100%, but who is this time of year. Then Jason Garrett has asked about it. It's best if we let him explain it from 105 through the fan. Why was Amari out on the fourth and eight, Amari and Cobb? You know, towards the end of the ball game, we started rotating Pave on Austin in to the game, particularly when we got into those situations

where we were on the ball a lot. The play that we had called for the fourth downplay was one that was, we used 12 personnel. We wanted to win and Blake to be in there together. That's why Randall Cobb was out in that situation. and then we just left. We left Avon outside. The matchup we wanted it was the one we got.

We wanted M.G. on the corner on the left-hand side. We anticipated getting that look if they're playing that coverage. And unfortunately, we weren't able to convert the play. Coach, is it a fair criticism to say we understand the rotation, but with the game on the line, essentially, put the rotation to the side and have your best receiver out there that, you know, Mike Orvin wouldn't be on the sideline

or Emmett wouldn't be on the sideline in that moment? Why not put the rotation? rotation of cider in the back seat that the season may be on the line and get Amari in there. Yeah, we certainly could have done that. You know, Amari got a lot of opportunities throughout the ball game, and they did a pretty good job on him. Tevon got some opportunities. He did a pretty good job. Amari came back as the game went on, did a good job with a couple opportunities that he had. So, you know, we felt good about the guys who were out there, and unfortunately weren't able to make the play. What's your takeaway from all of that?

I think it's bizarre. That's what I think. Again, and, you know, Tavon did win a couple of routes, and Dak missed him on what could have been a touchdown play. Like, none of that is lost on me. And we've seen him have juice. We saw the 58, what was it, 58 or touchdown against the Rams the week before. Yeah, it's still, I don't know. And, okay, he's not, he's not benched as in like, okay, get a Mari off the field.

But isn't that a synonym or a euphemism for benching somebody when you say, it's not working with Coop pay him off the field and put 10 on the field. Like aren't we sort of saying the same thing? Unless it is unless it is gassed. If it's fatigue, I don't know that somebody's bench for fatigue. All right. Well, the fourth and eight specifically, you have all three of your

timeouts. I mean... And what was interesting about that, Jason Garrett's saying because I love Sean Street. He's done such a good job if our fans that listen to us on the national level don't know who he is. Tuneonoradro.com apps. Must listen when they've got Jerry Jones, 105 through the fan. The RJ and Sean and RJ show.

I can't believe I've tried to go there. That was not cool to Sean. They asked him about the timeouts, and they said the reason why they didn't take a timeout was because they were all on the same page. They agreed that this was, they wanted to go with two Titans. To be fair, Michael Gallup

had had some pretty significant catches on that drive. It seemed like Gallup had some momentum. If anyone was killing themselves after that game, it's Gallup. I even talked to him again this morning. Another drop, in a crucial moment. I talked to him again this morning

and he was like, it can't happen again. I can't cost my team a game. There's nobody that's putting this on himself more than that guy. But I think knowing that, do you put Gallup in that situation or do you put it in a guy

like Amari Cooper who's been in the league as long as he has? Or Randall Cobb, who has a veteran guy who had played off experience. Who was the guy that moved you down the field on that drive, three catches 52 yards. I'm right there with you. I haven't caught up with.

Bob to really specifically build that one down. Cobb, you know, the focus is all on Cooper because he looked so frustrated at times in that game, four catches on 12 targets. Cobb wasn't out there either. And that's, I don't know, there's a million different things you can second guess. Like I said, Dak missed Tavon on what could have been a touchdown.

Gallup dropped another go ball down the sideline. But it's just so weird to me that like Cooper runs a go. And then he just walks back to the sideline and they're like, okay, we'll just, we'll 12. personnel without Cooper or Cobb, if you're on the same page that that's your best bet, that's fine, but like, it seems silly to me in all honest, just strange. Michael Gelkin, Dallas Morning News. Cooper played 46 of the 62 offensive snaps, third most among the Cowboys right receivers.

And again, he said he wasn't limited by injury. He even said he wasn't fatigued, even though that's what I was told. Gallup 56 snaps, Cobb 48, Cooper 46. Tavon Austin, 16, and they even got Vintel Bryant in there, too. Oh, that's the fun. So we go down, we shoot postgame videos for DC.com on the sideline right after the game. So we go down early. And so I was standing there.

And yeah, like, they're driving the field with Tavon and Vintel Bryant, like on this do-or-die possession. And a whole bunch of Eagles fans were yelling at me, like, big deal, the Eagles, like, they're so injured. Like, nobody wants to hear about injuries. And I'm like, that's the point. Nobody's hurt. That's just who the Cowboys. want to have in the game right now. They wanted 83 and 10. They wanted Tavon and Bryant when they could have had Cooper, Gallup, Cobb, like all these guys. And that's, Amari Cooper walked right past me after the

incomplete go route on third and eight. Like, he just walked right past me to the sideline. I'm sure he's tired in the sense that all football players are tired. But like, like. So you saw him like, yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't. He didn't look like so. I mean, he didn't need oxygen. He looked like he could probably run another route to me. Again, especially one final one. Right. It's dangerous territory when you're eyeball testing like how somebody else feels,

but it looked strange to me. I was just like, this is bizarre. I don't know any other way to say it. One of the things that was mainly a fan thing, I don't think there were a lot of analysts that were saying it, but I'm curious for your take on this, because I completely reject the idea that Cooper had plays with quit. I think it's just his demeanor.

I think he is the way that he is, and it's the way he approaches the game. But there seemed to be a lot of chatter yesterday that Amari Cooper has quit in this football game. Do you think that's fair? No, I quit is harsh, but I think... I do think he's worn out. I think he's experiencing the end of the season of the team of TV.

He's worn out or is he frustrated? I think he's been hurt since week one. And he's hurt. I think it's just catching up and he's tired. I think he... He reminds when we talked last week about Zeke, how Zeke looked at the end of last year. how worn out he looks.

He looks like Zeke looked at the end of last year to me. See if you agree with this on helmet. I feel like Amari's a sharp cat. Yeah. He's a smart guy. He's a smart. And if you listen to him when he talked, like I've always joked that he reminds me of Jordan Speed walking me through,

like what he did on the back nine. He can tell you everything that happened. And the way he breaks down that game, he's one of the smartest receivers I've ever interviewed. I feel like he really questions the play calling sometimes. And while on the road, it looks like he disappears. I'm wondering if he's, frustrated with some of that.

I mean, and that's where we see some of this. I don't think he wears his, I don't think he hides the frustration well. Bingo. I'm completely with you. And like, quit is harsh.

Yeah, but I don't think that, I don't think the quit thing was fair. I thought that was an unfair criticism yesterday. But I think he gets in his head, it's like when things aren't going well, which they haven't gone well on the road often this year. And like,

again, quit is harsh, but you go back to the, to the Jets game. Would you compare it to like how people have always made that criticism of O'Dell Beckham. Odell Beckham gets distracted and frustrated by things and then it affects his play and it looks like. Would it be similar though in terms of frustration

affecting his play? Odell reminds me a lot of Des, if we want to take that back. Just like his heart's in the right place but he doesn't always handle it. Yeah, I don't mean expressing it the same way. I just mean in terms of that things not going the way he wants will affect the way he's playing

even if it's expressed in a different way. I think honestly, I think that is just wide receivers in general because it is like the only position in football where how well you play is completely predicated on about 18 other factors. So, Dak looked off last night. Like, I mean,

there were a lot of drop balls, but he threw some bad passes. He didn't look 100% himself. The play calling. Amari did us the favor of just calling out the play calling on his own. Like, we don't even have to guess that. He was just like,

yeah, we should have been throwing more deep balls. That's the second time he's done that in about a month. He's not afraid to do that. He did it during the practice week about a month ago. This is the same guy. was it last year where he said that he shook off Dak Prescott on a particular play call and said no.

Against the Eagles. He's like, no, we need to do this. And then Dak eventually relented. Relented and did it. I think there's more to that than I think quit. Amari Cooper has never struck me as a guy that quit. I think he takes a lot of pride in his game. We talked once about the wide receiver position.

And he says he's been playing it since Pop Warner. You know, some guys play defensive back and wide receiver. He said he has always played that position. And the reason why he's such a smooth route runner, but I sometimes wonder if him and Sanjay Lowe are always on the same page. Because we've heard about sometimes where he talks about, well, he wants to know the why. And so we ask the why a lot.

And then when you kind of talk to Sanjay about Amari, he kind of always sort of laughs and he's like, yeah, he wants to know the why. And Amari has even said to me in the past, and if I don't like the play, I won't run it. And so when I think, maybe this is, you know, I don't like conspiracy theories. I'm not saying these two aren't on the same page. but I think you do have a player that perhaps isn't...

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardaway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fantine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up guys? This is Clifford Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted. this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some

playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I feel like maybe he's underwhelmed with some of the play calls that they've had in games. And it's easy to knock a Mari because you look at his stat line. You're like, well, you can't question the play calling. Look at the box score at the end of the game. But I think

if you really got Amari to sit down and talk to him, I have to wonder how far away I am from on just some of this. I'm right there with you. Although, I mean, but there's always enough accountability to go around, right? I mean, like, Mari didn't make plays on some balls he should have. He didn't, he didn't look all the way dialed in to me. From the outsider's perspective, he didn't look all the way there, which, again, you know, it was almost fortuitous. It's on Thursday.

We were like, do they need to be looking to get you the ball quickly to get you involved? And that didn't happen. Like, I wonder, you know, if he's got three catches for 30 yards, like, within the first two or three possessions of the game, like, how does that change the way he plays? Because I do think that's a factor. I really do. It's like, you know, how quickly can you kind of build some momentum or are you sitting there nearing halftime and you're like, well, here I am again on the road, struggling again. Like, this is just what happens.

And all of a sudden, you're just deep in that, like, well of frustration and you can't get out of it. Do you remember when you talked to Amari after, it was either after one of the games or it was leading up to, it may have been leading up to the New England game. You talked about teams taking him away. And he said he doesn't mind being taken away if that opens up opportunities for Gallup, Cobb, and other people. And if it transates to a win. I think that's the thing. You said that on Thursday.

I think where the frustration lies for Amari is I'm fine, not getting my touches, not running the things I want to run. If other people are getting theirs and we're winning football games, it's when they're losing and they're struggling that I think that's when it sets in is like, I could be helping more if you'd let me run what I want to run. And also, guys, let's talk about how bank. up this Philly secondary was. Yep. I mean, I had... The whole roster. I always try to get plenty of perspective, which last night I was blowing people up at, you know,

11 o'clock, 1 o'clock in the morning saying, go look at the tape. Give me your thoughts. And the overwhelming sentiment I got was this was a Swiss cheese secondary. And the fact that this team couldn't capitalize on, the response I kept getting, well, they were loading the box against Dak. I mean, Zeke, they've done that in years past. And Dak's taken advantage of that at times this year. and it wasn't yesterday.

I do think that... Think how many times they've loaded the box since Jake has been here. You always know that the Cowboys in the past were going to run the ball. Why is that not an area that they can overcome this year? I thought what Trent Dilfer said on the fan

to Sean and Archie a few weeks ago ago was interesting how Kellyn Moore being the quarterback, John Kittner being the quarterback, they know so much about the passing game that the emphasis in the play calling has gone more towards the past. If you look at Lenehan, the big knock was,

he never got the passing game involved. This year it feels like you've moved away from the passing game. I mean, away from the running game, you're focused more on the passing game. Sorry, Bobby. No, you go ahead. I disagree with that,

I guess, just in the sense of like, I think that's smart football. Like, go back to the Vikings game. Like, I mean, you can run head first into a brick wall if you really want to. Like, if that's what you want to do, you can. But the Eagles were very committed to stopping it.

They said after the game, you know, felt embarrassed by what happened in, you know, in October and they wanted to rectify that. I think it was Brandon Graham that was like, we didn't want Zeke to be doing this little eat motion or whatever. And that's fine. If you want to take that away, the Eagles, this is great. I love pulling, you know, people roll their eyes of fantasy football, but this is very telling, in my opinion. The Eagles secondary gave up the second most fantasy points in the league to boundary receivers. Like outside the numbers, they couldn't stop a nosebleed all year. And so smart football is to say,

Fine. Load up and stop the run. Let's just feast on these cornerbacks. And the cowboys couldn't do it. And that's what Gary Brown told me. When I asked him, I said, why did you guys not run more? He said, we thought we could capitalize on their passing defense. Well, they did a bad job of that. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live. them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to

navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council.

Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide

Through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Here's what I look at and I don't want to speak for you guys.

I'll let you guys chime and hit you up. But this is a pretty intense assessment so I don't want to speak for anybody here. But when you look at, I tweeted this last night that this is a team that's been largely one of the healthiest teams in the NFL overall this year.

They really haven't lost. Layton Vanderesch was big loss, but I mean, otherwise, they've been pretty healthy this season. You look at, they had a top 10 defense last year. They returned just about everybody from it. You look over the fact that they've got a plus 82 point differential. Teams with point differentials that high this late in the season are not seven and eight. They're usually 10 and 5 or something like that. So you look at all these things and they're sitting at 7 and 8.

I don't think anybody's overrated the talent. I think they're incredibly talented. They're one of the top offense is it running. and passing the ball. When all of this is going on, and I don't know if it's on the coaching staff, if it's in the locker room, but I feel like it's something we'll know

post season, or after the season's over, there's cancer somewhere, whether it's chemistry's broken, people aren't getting along, and I'm not saying people aren't getting along, but I'm saying that generally when you see a team struggling like this, there's something not right inside the doors of the locker room. I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion, honestly.

I mean, yeah, we don't have to lay it all back out on the table, but 4,000 yard passer, two 1,000 yard receivers, 1,000 yard rusher. Three linemen going to the Pro Bowl, and maybe they're not playing at the all-world level that we're used to. Still better than most NFL O-lines.

All-Pro pass-rusher. Two all-pro pass-rushers, if you count Robert Quinn. And you're, I mean, yeah, and John Michael Bennett. Sure. Layton Vander Esh is a loss, but I guarantee you, you're absolutely right.

If I went and ran the numbers on it, the Cowboys have had extraordinarily good love. in terms of having their key players be available. And to have Sean Lee that can seamlessly jump in. Sean Lee, who's played great the last week. He had 17 tackles yesterday against the Eagles. Yeah, there weren't any splash plays, but I thought he played effectively.

Something's not right with this team. And Jason Garrett, that's always been where he won, is like managing all that again, you know, Monday to Saturday. That's where Jason Garrett was a good coach. And I think it became, it became too much for him this season. That is the only logical conclusion I can come to because I don't buy that this team's not talented.

This is when I think you need to throw in that observation you had at practice. Which one? Remember when you went out there and you heard Jason Garrett? That was interesting. I know you're out there at practice, but everybody had started focusing on DAC on Wednesday. This was last Wednesday. Yeah. Did you happen to hear what Jason yelled out at the coaching staff while he was with the defense on this side?

I did not. You're so much better at picking up on stuff. I was not looking. I just happened to hear Jason. and they're going through drills. He's talking a lot more than I normally hear him talking. And he goes, come on, you guys. I can't be the only one coaching out here.

That's not what you want to hear. And it's interesting. But I mean, it is, I think that it's time for Jason Garrett to go. I think that's probably fair. But I think that there are problems with this team right now that just replacing Jason Garrett isn't going to fix. Well, and here's two other things. When I listen to that 105,3, the fan call with Jason Garrett,

which again, I maintain why do they put him on Monday after these games? It's like he continues to dig a hole and I feel like he makes situations. And who wouldn't when you're operating on X amount of sleep? You know, you're coming off another loss and you're looking at like what's my future looking like? Sure. So I know what it's like to jump on live radio as to you after some of this and try and like download everything that happened in the course of a game. Oh, my, I hope this comes out well because like the worst stuff I do in any given week is like the first thing after a game. Yeah, it's just a lot to download.

I think it's interesting what you say about Jason this year, because that seems to have increased this year, those sort of things. That makes me wonder if his guards down more this year because he kind of senses it's the end, and he's not feeling the need to fight it as much anymore. So when he went on the radio, not only did, and I think a lot of people read into this, and I think there's something to be read.

I mean, obviously you have to answer the question. Sean asked him, you know, who makes the decisions on the play calling and who makes the decisions on the rotation? rotation. Kellyn Moore, bus comes why. Sanjay Law rotation, bus comes by. Yeah. And then as they're departing, Sean Sharif said this to Jason Garrett. Well, Jason, we'll end it with this. I do want to say this to you because you're the one who has to answer for it.

I don't think it's, you know, all on you to have guys ready to play with the NFC's title on the line. We don't think that they came out with that spirit, not the right type of kind of guy stuff we always talk about. So that to me is not on you. and I hope that they do still have a belief for this final game because I think they've let you down a little bit in that regard. So I wanted to say that to you, even though I know you believe in them, but I know you're disappointed like the rest of us with yesterday. Well, I appreciate it, guys, and I hope you guys have a Merry Christmas,

and we'll get a chance to visit with you guys. The no answer from Jason Garrett. That was a moment for Jason to say, hey, guys, look, my team's got a lot of heart. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're a little off here. Instead, it was like this no answer. Great talking, you guys. Got to go, bye. I'll tell you what stood out to me two weeks ago.

You remember when he got asked about Aaron Donald? And he did his normal, been a great player for a long time like he does. But then he went on about a minute and a half unusual for him, breaking down what makes him a great player. And I remember it stood out to me like, that's odd. That doesn't see it. It almost, again, I'm the conspiracy one and you know that. It did make me feel kind of like, is he just playing things a little differently now

because he doesn't think he's going to be standing at this podium next? year anyway. I think he's accepted where it is. We all know Jason Garrett's smart, and I don't think Jason Garrett's dumb enough to think that he's got a likelihood of being back next year. Do you want to come back? No. I don't think... I mean, it's gotten to that point now. Orlando Scandrick said that to us last week. He said,

you know, not just from the Cowboys' perspective, I think Jason's probably getting tired, and Jason probably realizes it's getting close. This has been a hard season. I... They find new ways to blow me away because I didn't think a season could be more exhausting than 2017. That was a bad one.

This is close. I think it's worse. Maybe. I think it's worse because... That was the 13 and 3 season. Not only that, but like in 2017... The suspension right after that. You had all this stuff that contributed to it.

You're like, well, of course this season's been tough. Zeke's been suspended and they're like the federal court circuits involved. And, you know, the team lost 100 to 3 when Tyron and Sean Lee were heard. And there's all these factors contributing to why they weren't playing well. And he said goodbye to Tony Romo and everyone was second guessing that. What has, like, what, again, to go back to your point. They don't have anything to point to this year. What has been the drama?

I mean, I'm sure there's drama inside the locker room. There always is in the course of a given season, especially when things aren't going well. But, like, nobody's suspended. There hasn't really been much in the way of, like, legal trouble. Antoine Woods got arrested, but whatever. Like, it hasn't been, there hasn't been this, like, saga. You haven't had the Travis Frederick out for the year or somebody like that. You haven't lost this starter to crazy injury.

Nobody's suspended. You don't have the rest. the Bryce, the Cole Beasley calling out one of your coaches very publicly. How about 2008, I'll never forget. You know, it was coming off a really great year and like it was one thing after another. Like it was Pac-Man getting in trouble.

This feels very 2008 outside of the off-the-field. But that's the thing that, but that was everything in 08. There was like one story after another that was kind of getting in their way of like being successful. This is just, they aren't playing good football. That's the only thing.

That's all it is. And the hardest part, Herman, is you felt so close going, into the season. Don't you feel so far away now when they walk away from this? Is a coaching staff going to immediately? They've got to make chemistry changes. I don't know that I think they're far away.

I mean, there's so much. I feel like they've empowered some of the wrong guys in the locker. That I think is a fair statement. That's 100% fair. And I mean, you know, it's ironic because like last time I came on with y'all was probably a month ago and we were already talking potential coaching change. And we were kind of like, oh, maybe.

or it's sort of looking that way. Like, I can't imagine a scenario where that doesn't happen. And I mean, who's to say? But, like, the right hire can do a lot to fix some of that stuff, I think. The right hire. Just before we let you go, because we know you got to run. I also know you're Mr. Draft. You're big another draft.

Hell yeah. So you look at one of the benchings that happened yesterday that they said definitely was a benching was Cheeto Ouzier. Yep. Which, what a weird time to finally hold somebody accountable. No, but see, I actually, I agree with, like, I have gotten a reputation. I defend Chito a lot, maybe past the point of reason, because... He is so likable.

Well, not only that. Like, he's a nice guy, but not, like, his coverage is usually not awful. Like, he doesn't play the ball. He plays the man, and guys always seem to catch it, but, like, it's not like he's burnt toast. Like, he's always right there. It's always, like, a tough luck, like, maybe next time. But then in that game yesterday, like, I think it was Miles Sanders. Like, he bounced outside.

and Cheeto just stared at him. Like he kind of stutter stepped and just stared at him and he winds up making the tackle about six yards further down field than he should have. And like if I who have never played football past like sophomore year in high school can see that, obviously Chris Richard's going to see it. And I was like, well, yeah, that makes sense

because I can't question your effort on your coverage, even if you give up the completion. I can question your effort when you stare down a ball carrier for about three seconds before you make a little sheet. Well, and he answered that. He said Chris Rashard preaches aggressive time. It didn't happen. So he put in Jordan Lewis

and he ended up coming back in. But as much as people were characterizing that he dismissed that, to me, he really received the message and took ownership. Well, honestly, after that drive, they looked atrocious

on the first touchdown drive, the Dallas Goddard touchdown drive. And they kind of settled in. They settled in. But they also lost a lot of players. So Cheeto benched, Jordan Lewis doesn't hit the height requirements. Byron Jones is out of here in free agency.

I think everybody feels like that's going to happen. So when we looked April, are we now settling in pretty comfortably to the first pick the Cowboys have is going to be a cornerback. Jordan Lewis doesn't meet the height requirements of this regime. Scrap? Yes. Well, there is that.

No, I mean. But even still, you're going to be down, you could potentially be down two quarters if you've ran out of this. I don't know why people are down on Jordan Lewis. I feel like Jordan Lewis makes plays when he's out there. I think people love Jordan. No, my point is the Cowboys liked Jay Lou enough to draft him in the top 100 before Richard got here. I just think it's a regime thing.

I don't think people are down. I just think they don't think. We don't know who's going to be. coaching this defense in the month. But regardless of who's coaching it, are we likely looking at corners the top knee heading into April? It's up there. It's hard. It's hard to do that until you see exactly what's going to happen. And for that matter, it seems likely that Byron is not long for this team, but can you guarantee that right now? No. I can't guarantee. I didn't think Terrence Williams would resign here. I just want to say, by the way, they could have two tags to use as well,

so a tag could be part of it too. Jeff Heath Redemptioneer. He's, him and Michael Bennett get my MVP candidates on defense. Like the hardest playing guy. I mean, he came back in there after jacking the shoulder up again. I actually, I mean, no, I think the world of Jeff, but I mean, I would have to give some recognition to Byron, honestly. To not have an offseason and not have a training camp. You just never hear Byron's name. And it's partly because just plays aren't made against him and he doesn't talk much during the week.

Exactly. No, like he's just quietly over there handling his business. He'll get a big contract this office. He does not get to. And that is a valid criticism of an all-pro corner. But he did, I mean, he handled his business all year. Like, he handled his side of the field. He played defense on Zach Ertz last night.

He made a great pass breakup. I'm curious to see what happens with that. But to your point, yeah. I mean, Cheeto, even however you feel about Cheeto, he's got one year left on his deal, Jordan 2, Anthony Brown's a free agent. Iron could be a free agent. I don't know what they're going to do there. So cornerback jumps out to me.

defensive tackle and safety are still needs, which is kind of hilarious since that was the big needs last year. And then probably tight end. That's, yeah, which, you know, we'll get into all that soon. They have a perfectly capable tight end on their roster. They just choose not to go to him. No, I mean, Blake Jarwin, he has proven himself to be a good player, but they could do more there.

I mean, look at the Eagles. The Eagles have two really good ones and it helps them out a lot. The fact they went to Dalton Shultz. I mean, there's literally so much I could unload on this podcast today. Like, no, it's so much time. It's one of those things where so much was wrong and bad that it's hard to even know where to start. Before we go, did it just feel like they were trying to get cute yesterday? Like, I feel like they were trying to get cute.

Like, they were trying to get creative. Like, that fourth and eight, creative. Dalton Shulton instead of Blake Jarwin, creative. Running the speed option on what was it, third and short when, yeah, I mean, that was. I just felt like they were soft yesterday. That's soft was the word that came to mind. I thought, you know, Jason Garrett's whole, like his whole, like his whole, mantra going all the way back, even in the good years, was like, fight.

We're going to scratch and clawed and do what it takes. And the Eagles looked like that yesterday. The Cowboys did not. Dave Hellman from Dallas Cowboys.com. Thank you so much for joining us. And on the next pod, we'll look ahead to this next one. We talked about this Philly game being a big one. This one's a big one for the Cowboys, but the Cowboys are going to be focused not on their

game, but also that game on Sunday at the exact same time because this game was flexed. Giants. Philly. Daniel Jones back in the mix for this one for the Giants. Danny Dimes, who was enjoying Flip Cup action with Eli Manning. Yeah, they've played about a million times over. They took the Eagles to overtime a couple weeks ago.

Maybe we can hope for something like that again. Now, we do also, the Cowboys, if they lose this game, I was looking at this earlier, I know we were talking about it. If they lose this game against the Redskins and they do miss the playoffs, then I think they can pick as high as 11th, which would be really fun come draft time. You could actually like start having some fun. Look at that silver lining.

I know. I'm trying to. They've been in the low 20s the last couple of years. Yeah, they've like been picking around like 18 or 20 or whatever like last year. They didn't even have a first round pick. So I mean, you look at, they picked Tristan Hill 58th overall, who by the way, was game day inactive once again on Sunday. You could have two picks potentially made 20 picks before 58 where you picked last year.

So let's try some sunshiny optimism. But I know a Cowboys fan. are struggling with that right now. But on Thursday, when we record the next one, we will get a chance to talk, J.P. Finley from NBC Sports, Washington, their Redskins insider. He will join us and preview that game a little bit. Well, we'll be talking about the fact that Cowboys are not going to be facing Dwayne

Haskins. He's now out for the season. Instead, they get Case Keenum. Does that impact the likelihood of a win? Does it decrease? And then Bill Callahan coming back as the head coach, I think is fascinating. It's going to be fun. There's a lot of storylines here. and we'll be talking about all of them on our Roadcaster pro, which our friends at Road so generously provided us with. If you're looking to take your podcast up another level, you should check it out. Becoming a magician takes thousands of hours, right, Ashley?

Oh, I'm not a magician. I'm a design specialist at the container store. But you transform closets and pantries. Well, I turn your most frustrating spaces into ones you love. With a magic wand? With Alpha. Our customizable, adjustable, and affordable shelving and drawer system. The amazing Ashley, making daily frustration disappear.

Just doing my job. Hurry, you only have until February 13th to save 20% when you purchase $500 in Alpha. Get started with your free design at the container store today. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story,

behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funny. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to,

listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, blue, 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Thank you.