The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Dak Contract Latest; Draft Prospects Oklahoma C Creed Humphrey, Bama OT Alex Leatherwood, Northwestern OT Rashawn Slater

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby talk about where things stand with Dak Prescott’s contract negotiations. The pair also speak with Oklahoma Center Creed Humphrey, Alabama Offensive Tackle Alex Leatherwood, Coastal Carolina Defensive End Tarron Jackson, California Cornerback Camryn Bynum, and Northwestern Offensive Tackle Rashawn Slater. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Enroll at pg.e.com slash training. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the boys. and Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt, a Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys.

Now, coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. All right, Bobby. Well, we did have a little bit of downtime to sort of decompress and wait for news of the season. to kick off as it relates to the Cowboys. And now that we are within the tag window,

we have got a lot to talk about as it relates to Dak Prescott and the Cowboys. Most notably, a report that I shot down. And it wasn't even a report. I think it's important that I point out, and I did try to clarify. Oh, the report where you said he's signing, he wants a 10-year contract worth $50 million.

I saw you said that. Okay, sorry, sorry. I will not. Go ahead. Go ahead, Jay. I was going to start with the fact that people, were ready to move on and replace DAC with Russell Wilson just because Russell Wilson did what a lot of smart guys do when they want to get out of a place or they are a free agent and want max dollars. They throw in the Dallas Cowboys to the mix. And so it became a talking point last year or last week.

And if you didn't hear me on the NFL network or breaking this down, Bobby, I know you and I can get into this. It was considered laughable by one of my team's sources because they are trying in good faith to still get a deal done with Dak Prescott. There's also the fact that Russell Wilson is under contract. They owe him, I believe, $39 million in guaranteed money. So you're telling me Seattle's going to be cool shipping Russell Wilson down to Dallas, another NFC team. Yes, they're going to get some things in exchange, but this has been a lot of,

a team that has made things so expensive and outpriced them on guys like Earl Thomas. They jumped in and went after Jamal Adams when the Cowboys found it too costly to work with the Jets. And then when they came calling, picked up the phone, Stephen Jones, ring, ring, season's not going that great, but how did you feel about doing something for Alden Smith? And the phone goes back down. And as I said, he's a free agent this office. off season. They're, I'm told, trying to bring him back. They could have gotten a

compensatory pick for him and said no. It just tells you that if you're talking to me about that team, that quarterback who's five years older and still trying to get something done with DAC, you would agree knowing what you and I know that it is laughable. So Bobby, this is, I know you said you didn't want to get into the DAC fray. You didn't last very long. I lasted two weeks. I think that's a long time for me. Two weeks of living up to that and now I got to pay off a bet to like five different people but I mean it's it's fine I mean my biggest thing is outside of everything you just laid out about Russell Wilson and seeing how ridiculous that is uh I think that forget just how ridiculous that is just look at

how difficult is it to acquire that player versus how difficult is it to just sign the damn check with your current quarterback just get it done that's that that is the biggest thing the cowboys can do is just get it done and I know there's always this discussion of, you know, the Cowboys won a victory. They want to win something in the negotiation. I think you're at a point now where you could win the negotiation just by getting it done. Like public opinion would be on your side if you just get it done because people are just so tired of it. Just finish it up, get it done. Let's not wait any longer. Just pick up the phone, talk to Todd France. Well, that's the good news that I have for Cowboys fans,

Bobby, is I was told that Stephen and Todd have been talking. And why is that meaningful? When I looked back at my report last year at Combine, there was little to no talking. And when I asked them to characterize how the talks were going, I was told they were good. And I was then said to them, how you feel in versus years past? And it said, it felt a little bit better. And so given how deeply they've both dug in those cowboy boots. I think that we're seeing some signs of light. And here's also why I add another layer to this. I was told that Dak Prescott's been rehabbing at the Star in Frisco nearly every day. And why is that meaningful? Dack could rehab anywhere he wants. And if you don't want to run into Jerry and Stephen or people in the front office,

because it's just gotten so contentious. And if they tag you, you're not going to sign it. You're not going to keep going up to the office. Oh, yeah. And people have not naming a list of days, but I mean, people have done that before in the past. There have been guys who don't want to be around the building and they rehab outside of it.

So that's not unusual. For those of you who go, well, of course he's rehabbing because he needs to rehab and keeps it. Yeah, but there are lots of guys who choose to rehab outside that building when feelings aren't good. And he's there. I find that meaningful is my point in saying that. Now, look, it might be a win for both parties to just go ahead and exist with the tag.

He gets $37.7 million the minute he signs it, that's guaranteed no matter what happens. The Cowboys get another year to assess Dak Prescott, although I would argue, if you look at his record, 42 and 27 with him, seventh best passer rating in NFL history, tied with Tom Brady. and he's 27 years old. And he's beloved by the guys in the locker room. There's a lot of upside, but if you still need time to evaluate them, which I find that hard to believe, or they wouldn't be giving him the franchise tag.

They wouldn't be trying to still get this thing done because it does take up so much of the cap. I mean, franchise tags are costly tags that you use. They both get to play this thing out next year. and the Cowboys assume the risk that DAC balls out, has an amazing year, completely outpriced them, or they assign the non-exclusive tag, which would be somewhere around 54.3 million.

He's able to shop around to other teams. Cowboys then have to match it. And if they don't, I think they get two first-round compensatory picks. Well, no, it wouldn't even be compensatory. It'd be wherever those teams finish. So, like, let's say, just as a theoretical team, let's say the Titans went out and signed him. you would basically just get the Titans next to first round picks.

So wherever it is that the Titans finish. But the downside there is obviously if Dak goes and balls out somewhere else, then you're getting like back into the first round picks, which are basically second round picks. But I mean, my biggest thing is- My point is I don't see Jerry not having the rights to DAC because you get something of value from it. Big risk, though.

Now am I wrong in that? Big risk, though. Because I think if he plays on the tag this year, he's not playing for Dallas next year. There's no circumstance where he wants to be a cowboy after that, I bet. I agree. Or you could look at it of the cow, again, he might find, I just think there's risk on both sides.

The Cowboys risk losing him to another team the following year because, I mean, 54.3 is absurd for a franchise tag. Or you risk him actually signing it to spite you and then you have a $54 million cap number. Correct. And in three years, he makes, what, $100. $23.4 million. Or in Dax situation, he gets hurt again. The team doesn't have a good season.

And then what is that due to his leverage and his future in the league? So I actually see risk on both sides, which I see a great deal more risk on the Cowboys side, though, in that instance. I think there's a better chance that he plays well than he gets hurt again. Perhaps, but I don't think we ever expected the injury that he was going to have this year. It was on the most, it was on the most ridiculous of runs. It was one of the more gruesome injuries that we've seen in recent years. And it was a setback for him.

And it was a setback for the team. And I don't think any of us saw that coming. It was a risk that we literally said he's been so durable in his career. That's not a possibility. I've just got to think that that at least factors into some of this. And so I think given all of the things that we've outlined, I think we're now at a point where the two sides truly have to give up something they don't want to give up to get a deal done. But I feel like the most encouraging thing, like I said, is I feel, and again, now this is me analyzing me, this is not me knowing. Although I do, I do know talk to some of the people I've talked to.

Oh, you know things. That DAC wants to be here. Yeah. Deck just wants to be respected. Sure. And the Cowboys just want some space to structure a deal that allows them to put the pieces around them. So if there can just be some more give, this thing gets done. But I just don't think it's going to be on the timeline that people think.

I see why he doesn't, though, because you buckled, you caved to Ezekiel Elliott. You buckled, you caved to DeMarcus Lawrence. You gave them what they wanted. I have said this before. The last negotiation, the Cowboys won was Tyron Smith seven years ago. They haven't won any since then. And so I think that there's precedent undoubtedly from Todd Francis' end and Dax's end that just says, all right, they're going to buckle.

And if they don't buckle, then how much did you really want him? And I think it'd be foolish if the one position they choose not to buckle on a contract, especially with a potentially exploding salary cap where it's going to be nothing. It's going to be peanuts essentially into the future. I think that's silly. And I heard Jeff Kavanaugh and Gbag Nation say this this week. And this is something that I've said before, too, is that two years ago, the argument was you can't pay him 30 million. Last year, the argument was you can't pay him 35 million.

This year, the argument is you can't pay him 40 million. Just figure out what you don't want to pay him now. And that's what you'll be happy with in a year. So just pay the money now and know that in a year you'll be happy with it. I mean, think about had they just gotten it done. He would have been making $32 million. They would have just got it done two summers ago. But they got cute and they wanted to play games and they wanted to come in with their,

you know, mid-market value in 2019 enough to piss them off to where there wasn't a lot of great feelings heading into 2020. Just stop playing cute. Just get it done. That's what I don't understand. The best analogy I can give is how I used to approach my credit cards in the past. I have this money from my tax return. So I'm going to apply it to my credit card. Nope. There's that shiny object over there that I really don't need, but I'm going to go spend it on it. In the meantime, my credit card bill is just going to keep going up and up and up because I'm making the minimum payments and the interest rates are going through the roof when I wouldn't have had to even worry about this if I'd use that dumb money to just pay off my credit card debt just that's what this feels like pay your quarterback that's all you got to do if you pay your quarterback you win this off season just get that done and stop playing games this is this is I keep saying at every interval it's going to get done it's going to get done it's going to get done and it's just because I have to to believe they can't be this stupid. Just to say that directly,

they can't be the only team that flubs the quarterback negotiation this bad. And look, there's a history of them pushing things off, like with D law and letting things get to a second tag and them waiting into almost the regular season with Zeeke. They've got a history of letting things linger a little bit before they get it done. So I'm hoping that's the case here.

But if he plays on the tag this year, he's not your quarterback in 2022. And there's a precedent for that. we've talked about that Kirk Cousins, Drew Brees, that hasn't gone well for other teams who have done this. You know what happens when you let Kirk Cousins walk and you don't want to pay Kirk Cousins, which I'm not saying Kirk Cousins is the best quarterback in the world. But I mean, he's a Pro Bowl quarterback. When you don't want Kurt Cousins, you end out trading extra picks to move up in the first round and take Dwayne Haskins and then cut him. You end up making trades to pay Alex Smith in case Keenham combined $40 million.

dollars. That's what happens when you don't just give him his 28 million. And so... That's also why I think it's so absurd. Like, if we're going to just come up with absurd theories about how the Cowboys win now, it's not to go get a quarterback that not only are you going to have to give up a lot for it. I'm using Russell Wilson here. You're going to have to give up stuff for another team is going to have to pay his $39 million guarantee. But even though he might be a little bit more cap. friendly. He is older and you still have to put pieces around him. If you're going to just say Dak's not our guy, then lean into the draft, sign Andy Dalton again, ride with Andy Dalton again,

and then develop a guy behind him that you're only going to be paying $400,000 like you paid DAC for four years. That to me, like if DAC truly isn't your guy, that's the play, it's not the Russell Wilson play. The other example of when you let Drew Breeze walk. I wrong on that? No, no, I think you're right. The other example, though, of when you let Drew Breeze walk was you had Philip Rivers in house for a year. He had, but you drafted him, you knew what you were doing. You let him sit behind Breeze for a year and then he went on and had a borderline Hall of Fame career for you. So if the Cowboys had already drafted somebody or they had finished, and that's another thing is that I feel like if they were really

considering moving on from DAC, because again, I just got to rationalize this as best I can. If they were really moving on from DAC or contemplating this possibility, do you smash your watermelons and go six and ten? Or do you try and go four and 12 and pick third and be in position for Zach Wilson or Justin Fields or one of these top quarterbacks as to post where you are, which is now you're in this purgatory spot in the draft where you're not going to be in position for one of the top quarterbacks? That's actually a really good point because I think it had less to do with pride.

If they really weren't in on DAC and they keep talking to us about the money and what they've got to do to get under the cap. If they weren't truly committed to DAC, I agree with you. I think they would have gone all in on Team Tank, said he's damaged goods. We're going to have to start over. And they just haven't done that. So I do think that we're going to see, just like I was told, Zeeke didn't deserve Jared, I mean, Todd Gurley money.

Which he didn't continue. He ended up getting the money, Demarcus, Lawrence, They didn't want to pay him. They ended up paying him. I just think it's going to take Todd picking up the phone a little bit more. I'm not saying yes to kiss the ring. But I think these conversations that they're having may not be meaningful in the context of we have anything to report or get a deal done. But they're meaningful because from what I'm being told, it feels like a more positive direction in the past.

And again. Which that's good because literally anything we've heard has been negative. So literally just they're talking. and it was kind of positive is a positive. Which again sounds like the dumbest nugget that I'm reporting. But for me, when you've covered the negotiations, the way that I have the last 12th seasons, that is actually a meaningful nugget to me.

Which let's think back to the Zika and D law negotiations. We hadn't heard that things were cheery by the time. The deals got done and then we heard, oh, things, you know, we came together and things were good at the last minute or we pushed over the finish line. But there weren't reports of that leading up to the deals getting done. We were still hearing things were content. So the fact that we've at least been given a signal that, hey, things maybe aren't as contentious.

That already sounds like it's further along than Zeeke and D-Law had been at the points when their contracts did get done. The only downside there is we knew at the very least they were having open communication consistently in trading figures with those two. We don't necessarily have that here. Yeah, I mean, last year covering this, this literally just felt, I don't want to use the word here, but it felt a contest between men as you as you as you. you men do. Sword fight, so to speak. I don't understand. A sword fight, so to speak. Okay. All right. I don't know what that means. It feels, again, just based on talking to people that I trust and that haven't steered me

wrong and that I don't think use me in contract negotiations, like to to manipulate contract negotiations for either side. I do trust that it, again, it's not enough to be like, I think we're getting this deal done. It's just, it feels more positive. And that's all you can take. More constructive. Take more positivity. And look, the tag deadlines coming up here. They could tag him.

He could even sign the tag or whatever else. I mean, and they can still negotiate for the next few months. I think it'd be better the sooner you get this done. I think it'd be best if you could get it done ahead of the draft. I think it's best so that way you can go in with a clearer picture for the draft. It helps the offseason energy. It gets DAC in the OTAs. It gets, you know, the locker room excited that they could ride with their guy.

I don't think this stuff helps your locker room. I don't think it helps the guys to know that the guy that they all believe should get paid. And I've said that very publicly isn't getting paid. That doesn't make you feel good about. Well, what does it make you feel about your own future if you wouldn't pay your quarterback? You know, how does it make the, you know, Michael Gallup feel about trying to get a contract extension when, boy, they've already got C.D. Lamb and Amari Cooper here. So I've already got some competition and they won't pay our quarterback. Imagine an Olympics where doping.

is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day but just so y'all know

I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed crack so I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now so

Thank you finishing that sentence I don't think there's a more important year for black people Really? Yeah for me It's one of the most important years for black people

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as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. There's really nobody behind. So why are they going to pay me? Why are they going to respect me?

It shows unnecessary doubt is all. But like I said, it'd be best if they get it done before the draft. And actually today we're going to be talking a lot of draft with a lot of these prospects. If you design, engineer, build, or maintain buildings in California, you can get free technical training, continuing education credits, and prepare for a range of certifications through PG&E. online classes. Enroll at pge.com slash training.

And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere.

Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA. dot go slash the right seat brought to you by nitsa and the ad council adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that i'm april dinwiddie host of the new podcast navigating adoption presented by adopt u s kids each episode brings you compelling real life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts visit adopt uskids dot org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by adopt u s kids brought to you by the the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Joining us now is Oklahoma Offensive linemen, Creed Humphrey. You can follow him on Twitter at Creed underscore Humphrey. He is training out at Michael Johnson Performance in the Dallas area, and we are excited to have him here today.

Creed, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you all the out of your own. Now, I got to say, you guys won the Joe Moore Award over at Oklahoma in 2019, and I know when I'd seen you talking about it that a big part of that was just the camaraderie and you thought that, you know, the relationships you guys had and the chemistry was a big reason why you guys were able to do that. How difficult was that this year for you with COVID in terms of just being able to manage that camaraderie and stay close? We heard a lot of that from guys in the NFL that, you know, it was tough to have those same sort of bonds that they would normally have because

of how this season went. Yeah, definitely. It was tough. You know, we weren't, you know, able to go do our usual stuff, like we're about to eat all the time with each other, you know, hang out with each other after practice. You know, we kind of had to be isolated from each other whenever we were outside of the facility. So it was definitely a different year, you know, but we did things like Zoom meetings and stuff all the time where we're still being able to connect with each other outside of the facilities. So it was definitely different, but, you know, it wasn't too hard. We had to get creative with it, but it went pretty well. All right. My first question out of the gate has to be, where does the name Creed come from?

Because I love getting to know you guys separate from what we're going to read. And obviously the college biography and what we're going to hear Daniel Jeremiah and them talk about your intangels, whatever. I want to get to know you as a person. So we've talked about some of the cooler names over the year that come through draft. I'm not going to forget you. And I would imagine neither are GMs and scouts because it's such a strong first name. Where did Creed come from? Yeah, you know, my parents never really told me exactly where it came from.

I know my dad's a fan of the band Creed, so I'm sure they had some influence on it. But, yeah, they never really told me the exact reason why they came up with it. All right. Have you ever listened to Creed? And if so, does you or your father have a favorite song? Because, you know, there is a Cowboys tie in there. Yeah, you know, I listen to them. You know, I like the band.

I wouldn't say I have a favorite song, but I know, there's a few that are really good. So, but yeah, you know, they're a good band, so I like to listen to them. Did you ever watch the Dallas Cowboys' Thanksgiving performance of him taking off on a cloud of what is now acro silks for yoga enthusiast? Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that, actually. It was pretty cool. Can we just get a graphic of him just flying? Yeah, you do.

That's what we're going to do now. Yeah, it's, you know, as much as I'm surprised, I would never have figured somebody would have named, had Creed as an inspiration, a band, inspiration for the child's name. But you know, at least it wasn't nickelback or something like that. Now, Creed, I'm curious, you've had so many guys that you've gone up against in the Big 12, big time pass rushers. Who is it that in your career that you faced at Oklahoma, you think was, you know, the best player that you've gone against on the defensive side of the ball?

Yeah, you know, I'd probably say Quinn Williams from Alabama in my retro freshman year. You know, he was a great player, you know, a disruptive player. So it was funny to go against a guy like that, especially early on my career. you know, to challenge myself that season. So it was fun. What do you think this is the biggest thing you learned about football while you were at OU? Really just how you prepare for a game, you know, you can't walk into a game and not know what the defense is doing. So, you know, I take preparation very seriously.

I take film study very seriously because the more I know about the defense, the better idea of, you know, how I can make a call, things like that, how I can pick up a blitz and past protection. So really just preparation and learning, you know, defensive philosophies. piece. You know exactly where I'm going at this question, Bobby. We had Daniel Jeremiah on our show once, and one of the more fascinating things that he told us was typically you get in a room and a guy will tell you he's a big film guy. And the best way to check that is to go to the film guy and ask how many different times this player has logged in. So if we were to go to the film guy at OU, how many hours of tape are you logging into each week? Yeah, a ton. You know, I at least try to do

outside of our meeting rooms with the coaches and everything. You know, after practice, I like to try to get at least, you know, two hours, if not more. And, you know, depending on how much I have to study for, you know, an exam or anything like that coming up. So I'm trying to get in the film room as much as I can for sure. Now, I know at MJP, a big draw for a lot of the offensive lineman there and a reason why they get so many of the big guys there so frequently as Duke Meneweather. That's somebody.

Have you trained with him before this year? And why did, was it important to go work with him ahead of the draft? Yeah, this is the first time I've trained with him. I went and attended the O-line Masterminds conference he does in the summer this past year. And, you know, Duke's just one of those guys. You know, he has such a great idea about football and technique and everything. You can really tell the guys he worked with, the guys he worked with how much he improves their game. So that was a big reason why I wanted to come work with him.

You know, I've just seen the results it's had with guys. You know, I've talked to Lane Johnson about him. He had nothing but good thing to stay at him. say about him. So that was definitely a big reason why. I just think there's not many of guys out there who can train offensive line and like Duke. Now when we talk about, you know, what's the biggest thing you learned about football at Oklahoma? What's the biggest thing you've learned during this process leading up to the draft? Yeah, you know, dude's definitely taught us a lot of technique and everything like that. But also, you know,

just learning how to take care of your body like a professional. You know, we do so much recovery and rehab stuff throughout the day that it makes some of the way. It makes some of the you feel fresh every single time to come in there no matter how hard the workout was the day before. So really just learning different techniques on how to rehab and recover for the next workout. When you walk, when you talk about some of the technique that you've learned, walk us through some of those that you've been able to see there's certain nuances to or that you've felt an area of improvement for you just in how you line up at the, you know, at the line of scrimmage and, you know, is it, is it your hands, is it your feet?

Yeah. With Duke, he really strains an emphasis on feet work and hands. You know, he says you always win the battle with your feet before you win with your hands. So working footwork technique on different blocks and everything like that is huge for us here. So doing that, you know, I feel like I'm definitely improving that area down here. When you pop in the tape or when Duke walks because Duke has worked with, I mean, there's a list of the Cowboys. Everybody. The offensive line, all pro team is who he's worked with everybody pretty much.

So when you pop in the tape, who does he say this is a player that you remind me of? And this is where I want your technique to go. Does he do things like that? And if he does, who does he pop in for you? Yeah, you know, he doesn't really do comparisons down here for us. You know, he wants us to be the best version of ourselves. So he really strains on what he can see us doing the best. and he straightens on those parts of our game to really work on and improve.

So he doesn't really have comparisons for us that he's had for me. You know, he just wants me to be the best version of myself. Now, you are training around the Dallas area, and we do a lot of Cowboys focus here. So have you thought any about the opportunity to play for the Cowboys potentially, or have you had any conversations with them? You know, we talked to the Senior Bowl. You know, they have some great players.

They've had great offensive lines throughout the years. So, you know, being able to have my name, though, this would definitely be awesome. So, you know, they've had such great offensive line. And, you know, they've had great centers there too. So it would definitely be an interesting place to play for it. Do you see yourself having some position flex on that offensive line or are you a pure center? Yeah, definitely. No, I don't consider myself just a center.

No, I consider myself an offensive line and a football player. I don't mind where I line up. You know, I feel like I have a versatility to play just about anymore on the offensive line. Now, that's a good question there that I was curious about. was your ability to play guard. Has anybody talked to you about that, that they see you as more of a guard? Or has everybody just pretty much focused on center with you? Yeah, you know, people have asked me if I'm able to play a guard. They have so much filming in center that, you know, I haven't really played a guard in the game,

but I've definitely practiced a ton, you know, throughout the years. So I'm comfortable playing both for sure. Is there a little bit of, it's funny, you always see fans on social media and stuff talking about, you know, well, if we have a hole at right tackle and we have two decent left tackles, let's move the left to right or we got this tackle. Let's just have them play inside or have the center play guard. Does that ever bug you? I know it seems to bug a lot of offensive line,

but the people don't seem to understand the nuances of each one of those spots. Offensive line is not just one position. Yeah, you know, I don't really focus too much on what people say outside of, you know, the team I'm on. So I've never really noticed it. It definitely takes a lot more than you would think to be able to just change positions, though. I will say that, especially from playing one side of the line to the other side.

out in the line. You know, it's completely different feetwork and it's completely different level of comfort than what you're used to. So it definitely is difficult to do. And, you know, when people do it is very impressive. Now we know Stephen Jones has a great relationship with Lincoln Riley. We had Lincoln Riley on our show who wouldn't over characterize those conversations ahead of Dallas. My point is Stephen can easily pick up the phone and talk to Lincoln about his OU players. Can you characterize what your conversations were like at the C-Mobile? your bowl with the Cowboys and who you talk to? Yeah, I'd rather

not get into that too deep right now. You know, I'm just really meeting with, you know, everybody. So I'd really not get too deep into what I've been talking about. Fair enough. I like the gamesmanship there. Now, last question for you here, because I know you've got to run. There's this big, one of the big stories this offseason has been Carson Wentz getting moved over from the Eagles to Indianapolis.

That potentially puts Jalen Hertz in a spot to be the franchise quarterback for the Eagles. know that's a guy you played with. Anybody who's curious about what type of player Jalen Hertz is, what would you have to say about him? Yeah, you know, Jaylin is such a great leader on and off the field. You know, he's something that you love to have in the locker room. And he approaches the game at such a business-like level. You know, he's someone who's always prepared for anything that comes and happens on the field.

You know, he's very impressive. And he has great composure to throw a game. You know, he's not someone who gets, you know, too excited or two down on himself, whenever he makes a good or bad play. you know he stays locked in the whole time it's very impressive so you know I'm a big fan of Jayland you know just in the one year that I got to play with him. Creed Humphrey is the center at Oklahoma and very well could be the first center off the board in the draft come April you can follow him on Twitter at Creed underscore Humphrey creed we appreciate

you man yeah thank you guys joining us now is Alabama offensive lineman Alex Leatherwood I would tell you where you can find him on Twitter but you can't because he doesn't have a Twitter. He's keeping his mental health on point. Alex, how you doing, man? I'm doing great. And you? I'm doing great. And I got to ask about that. What is the, how have you not gotten sucked in by the social media bug to this point? I don't know. Social media is like never really been my thing. You know what I mean? Just a lot of people don't know what they're talking about. You know what I'm trying to keep my peace and just going by my business. A smart man. Did you ever have one or did you decide to step away from it or you just

never got into it. I did used to have a Twitter, but I didn't use it much. You know what I mean? So I just decided just like, do it with it. That's so smart. Yeah, we got a first round grade on Alex Leatherwood between the ears there. That's good. Now, Alex, you, of course, won the Outland Trophy.

You are one of the top linemen in the country. I think everybody feels like you're likely a first round pick. And so there has been some discussion. It sounds like that some people may think you should kick inside the guard. and that that's where you should play at. Do you, would you welcome that or do you have any sort of resistance to that or any sort of pushback that says like,

hey, come on, like, I just won the Outland Trophy playing at tackle at Alabama and the SEC, and I think I've done a pretty good job at tackle. I think I can stay there. How do you approach that question about where you're going to play at the next level? Right. I mean, just like you said,

I mean, I just want to outland that left tackle. I didn't believe my skill set and my abilities. Like, I'm best suited for, left tackle, you know what I mean? But I won't take away from my rest utility to play anything on the offensive line. I mean, I feel like I could be a center, a guard, tackle no matter where you need me to play,

but I am indeed at heart and body of left tackle. Why come back your senior season, especially in a year that had so many unpredictable and unexpected challenges? Right. I came back just for like, to be honest, the sole purpose of getting better and being a better

player, you know what I mean? Also, I wanted to graduate. I wanted to win another national championship because the season we had last last last season was just not the standard of what we were expecting. You know what I mean? So I just wanted to go back and like prove a lot to myself and just put more on tape because I knew I because I knew I could show more, you know what what I mean? So I just wanted to like capitalize on all the good things I get in my junior season and take it to the next level as a senior. What do you think? I mean, you've got to you've had a chance to play for Coach Saban for the full run there. And he, of course, is one of the most revered minds in football.

What's the biggest thing you learned from Coach Saban at Alabama? The biggest thing I learned from Coach Saban is just how to win, you know what I mean? How to win and the things that it takes to win, you know, staying true to the process and the things that you got to do to get to where you're trying to go, you know what I mean? And I'm super appreciative and so grateful just to, like, have been coached about him and learning the things I did. It was great. You were a guy who was a highly touted recruit coming out of high school.

You had a lot of attention on you back even then. You spent four years now, like running through Alabama, having that spotlight there and playing in the SEC. Do you feel like all this time you've spent in the football spotlight at every level? Like, that kind of better prepares you for what comes with the day-to-day attention and grind and intensity of the NFL? Exactly, a thousand percent. I mean, that was one of the main reasons why I went to Alabama, you know what I mean,

just because of the exposure that we get there against being athletes, and you're always in the spotlight, you know what I mean? So, like, you always have to be on your piece and cues, and, like, you just get used to it. So, like, you know, how to handle things better because you've been there before. That's interesting, Bobby, because, you know, we've talked about guys like Sammy Watkins in the past, who I was told, decided not to come to Dallas because he didn't want everything that came with it. It sounds like you would be very capable of embracing. that. Have you had any conversations with the Cowboys?

I've had conversations with the Cowboys and we're really all, every two teams, but they'll be going great to be honest, all the conversations I've had. Okay, I've got a question for you. When you have a head coach like Nick Sabin, you know, we talked to another guy at MJP, and because you're in the spotlight at Alabama and because you have a coach like Nick Sabin, is there any head coach on the other side of a Zoom in the next couple of weeks that if you get asked to talk to is going to move the needle for you, in other words,

or pinch yourself and say, wow, like I'm doing this? No, not really, to be honest. Just because I'm prepared, you know what I mean, and I'm confident. So I'm going to go into every interview honest and prepared. What was it like when Sabin was in that living room talking to your parents that was a high schooler? Now, that being a high schooler, that was kind of surreal, you know, I mean, just knowing that I have the opportunity to play for somebody that's highly tallied and revered as him.

And, like, I mean, he's the goat. You know what I mean? So it kind of was a surreal moment, but it was cool. It was really cool. Alex, I'm sure you've heard this question a lot because I know it's a favorite of NFL scouts and front offices. And it sounds pretty basic, but it helps you to kind of look inside yourself and flesh it out as best you get. What is it about ball that you love? Why do you love football?

just like the competition you know what I mean and although I do love football what I love like specifically it's just like the art of the position of being an O-Laman you know what I mean just I feel like we're the most cerebral and technical position on the field so just like that chase of like being perfect you know what I mean getting all your steps right playing like mental games with offenders edge rushes and things like that just trying to be perfect and everything you do that's what I love about it I I love the competition. I love the physicality. And I love it as a team sport as well.

Like you can't do it all on your own. You got to have like, I mean, not even, not just in football, but more specifically, offensive line. Like you got five views you have an assignment to, you know, accomplish. So just that, I mean, it's fun. It's great. I love the authenticity and passion of that answer. It didn't feel canned.

It felt very genuine. This is a guy that loves football. And Dallas has had an impressive. line over the years. Have you talked to any of the Cowboys players and have any of them stood out to you? Not personally. I haven't talked to any Cowboys players, but I mean, of course, the offensive line, they stand out to me just the tradition and just like the tradition of that offensive line and what they do, what they've done over the past years. I mean, it's just like an inspiration. You know what I mean? Like they were the best in the lead and it's super fun and great to watching them.

learn from you know, Thomas Smith, Zach Martin, Lylell Collins, all of them. I mean, great players. Is there anybody specifically that you've studied while you've been at Alabama and just kind of tried to, I wouldn't say mold yourself after, because I know a lot of guys like to say I'm me, you know, I'm not somebody else, but is there anybody else that you try and like pick up some things or see if you can learn some things from through study? Any players in particular? Not in particular, but I mean, I watch a lot of topics in the league.

Tom Smith, Trent Williams, stated about the art. I mean, you know, like the all pros, like the great, like a pro bowlers, you know what I mean? A couple of them all the teammates who play in the league now, Jonah Williams, Judge McWill's, like those things. I watch them and just try to learn as much as I can and take away from all of their games, you know what I mean, and try to make it and tailor it to me in my skill set and what I can do with it. So I just try to be a sponge from everybody. You know, if the Cowboys were to call your name, I'm sure you know Trayvon Diggs a little bit. What was he like when he was on your team?

Oh, yeah, Diggs. Digg was great. Digg is definitely a character. He's a great teammate. He has a lot of personality, a freak athlete, great player, and, yeah, I love him. That's my boy. What about Patrick Sertan?

That's a corner that Cowboys might also pick up the phone and call. What's your scatting report on him as a teammate? As a teammate, I mean, you don't get any better to him. I mean, I got like a bunch of great teammates. but you can't get any better. Like he approaches like the way he approaches practice and the way approaches his work in his game, his crap, I mean, it's unbelievable. And he's been like that since he was a freshman when he first stepped on campus.

I mean, he's a workforce and he's a pro about what he does. So I feel like his transition is going to be seen. What challenges you most on the football field? What do you feel like you still need to improve at? What do you think that, you know, you feel like is not quite as polished as you want it to be? and you feel like gives you a challenge and something to shoot for? One thing I always try to work on because it's always been thinking of me. It's just hands, you know what I mean?

My hands in the run game and in the past game, just being more consistent about them being inside where I put them, Tom and things like that. But I feel like that's not just with me. I feel like that's what I mean. Just having good eye hand coordination, knowing timing, knowing your league and things like that. So that's one thing I always try to keep polishing.

like you can never be too to that. How has Duke helped you out with that? I know you're training with Duke many whether they're at MJP. Duke has helped out with that a lot. I mean, he knows like he knows a great deal about football and offensive a long play and just the drills we work. I mean, it really tunes in on like, like that skill set and like how to use your hands better.

You know what I mean? I mean, it just works. I mean, I can't really explain it, but it's great work. And I'm super grateful to be here, working with him, learning from him, and all the other Olaan duties here, a bunch of top news here. And it's great to learn from him and all the other dudes here. You know, with NCAA rules, you can only work on so many things as it relates to skills and the nuances that come with your position.

How energized and excited, because you do seem like one of those guys who really loves football and, you know, using words like loving the fact that it's, technical and being perfect. How much you love that now you can finesse your game and you can work on the nuances that make you a good offensive lineman with guys like Duke who that's what they do and they've got all pro guys that they've trained. It feels like that gets, you're the type guy that gets up for that in the morning. Like that energizes you. A thousand percent. And I mean, it's great not just because like you get to work with Duke and it's like because all the other guys he brings in that he works with were also great players in the league.

Like you get to learn from them as well. Like season bets like who played the game who played against like the great games and stuff like that. So I mean, it's cool. It's just great. I love it. Do you have a mentor right now in the game? In other words, is there an NFL player that you talk to or that has, like you don't seem like one of those guys that necessarily needs a whole lot of direction. But is there someone that that because of it,

is such a small fraternity, this game of football and doing this is very different than what your family does for a living and your friends do for a living. Is there a mentor that you reach out to that's that really just infuses you with some good brain food? I would say a mentor, but one of my closest friends and ex-teammates, Judge of Wilson, he plays a little tackle for the grounds. And he was the right table at Bama while I played up. he transitions to left tackle. So just talking to him about his experience and the things that he's done over his

rookie season, the things that he's learned and all that good stuff. We talk about that a lot. And I feel like I learned a lot from him just from him being a rookie and his experience with it. Well, Alex Leatherwood is an exciting player and one that you should hear,

I would guess on night one of the draft in April. You should hear his name getting called. Alex, we appreciate you so much and best of luck. Yes, sir. I appreciate y'all. Joining us now is Coastal Carolina Defensive End, Taran Jackson. You can follow him on Twitter at Taran underscore Jackson. Toran, how you doing, man?

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. And I'm excited to talk to you because I think you are the first prospect we have ever interviewed that graduated with a bachelor's degree in mathematics. What had you? Honestly, honestly gives me anxiety. I know. I almost didn't graduate the University of Texas.

And I had two degrees because I failed math not once, not twice, but three times and finished up in community college. That's how bad I am at math. Here's how bad I am at math is that I have, I've got my app here, photo math that I use to help me with my children's math equations to make sure that. So I just take a picture of it and it solves it. So I'm curious, as somebody who's pursuing football, what it's. It seems very outside the beaten path.

I wouldn't expect a lot of football players were, you know, majoring in mathematics. So how'd you go in there? I mean, I think it's kind of just a kind of a combination of some of the things that I did when I was growing up. I don't know. I just always love numbers, but growing up,

my family's big infrastructure, my pops of contractor. So, you know, doing different measurements and stuff, you know, cutting different, you know, like wood and stuff.

The measurement is just being able to cut the math in your head just speeds up. So I think that's kind of some of the stuff that, you know, kind of took me toward that path. But, you know, I just always been a number-y guy, honestly. God. I mean, the cool thing about that is, like, that also says GM to me when you're playing days are over. Is that something you'd ever consider? I mean, honestly, it's something that never really crossed my mind, honestly.

But I definitely could, you know, see that in the future. But, you know, it's just something that I never really thought about. To be honest. Now, as you're preparing for the draft, I mentioned there, Coastal Carolina. There's probably not a lot of guys that fans know who have come from Coastal Carolina, but you know, you guys really came onto the scene last year, had a big primetime game against BYU. So you guys are really starting to build a strong reputation, but you're kind of one of the forerunners here for it. So talk to us a little bit about

just coming from a small school and still trying to, or not a small school, but a lesser known football program and trying to establish yourself and help teams understand like, hey, we play good football over here too, believe what you see on the tape. I never say it gives me, you know, that extra chip on my shoulder, you know, working with guys that, you know, get a little bit more notoriety from that standpoint. But, you know, football is football. So, you know, I'm going to it, you know, just telling Jim, you know, what you're seeing on tape is, you know, what you're going to get, you know, you're going to get a guy that's

flying around all the time, that's playing hard, you know, playing for his teammates, you know, uplifting guys when they're down. you know, they make a miss a player, something like that, just trying to uplift them. But, you know, just showing them that just because, you know, we may come from a smaller comfort, you know, we still have a lot of guys that can compete at any level. Is it fun being a part of a school that's building something?

Because even Coastal Carolina in baseball has really been coming around in recent years. Is it fun to be a part of building something there? Oh, for sure. It's amazing, you know, to be a part of the groundwork for, you know, Coast Carolina. You know, the legacy is just starting. But, you know, just to be a part of something that's growing like Coastal edge now, you know,

we first came into Sunbelt, you know, we was three and nine, then five and seven, five and seven trying to build our way up every year, you know, last, the year before last year, kind of seeing that, you know, the product, you know, we lost seven games, but three or four that game, those games, we had lost for like one point, three points,

and then this year just, you know, busting onto the scene and, you know, winning our, you know, conference. It means a lot to me, you know, and the guys that I came in with, you know, something that we definitely was working towards, And for us to be able to lay that brick, you know, for future teams, it's amazing. Now, one of my, this is going to be a trivia question for Jane,

because I know that Tehran's going to know it instantly. But Jane, Tehran is from Aiken, South Carolina and went to Silver Bluff High School. You know who else fits those, that bio that currently plays in the NFL? Big time Cowboys connection here. He knows it. He already knows. You want to go ahead and share it with her? Not DeMarcus.

Now, he was in... That's it. DeMarcus Lawrence. See, DeMarcus Lawrence. DeMarcus was Birmingham. Never mind. Having been a guy who was in Aiken and went to Silver Bluff like DeMarcus Lawrence, is that a guy that you studied at all when you were coming along?

Definitely coming through high school, you know, and everything. You know, he was always, you know, kind of the guy that my coach, you know, pushed me towards a look at as far as filming and everything. So he's definitely got it. I've been watching, you know, since I was kind of younger. I know he's come back to the area some in recent years. Have you ever got a chance to meet him? No, I haven't gotten a chance to meet him.

I'm actually cool with some of his niece and nephews and cousins. I went to school with him. But, you know, I haven't got a chance to meet him formally. I've talked to him before, but I haven't got a chance to meet him face-to-face before. We've talked to a few guys who have talked to DeMarcus Lawrence. So I love seeing that he's taking on the mentor role. What has he said to you? What's been the feedback for a guy from his hometown?

You know, you just got to keep pushing, man. You know, just stay steadfast, you know, be cautious of the details from that nature and just, you know, do what you love. Now, you were at Senior Bowl, and I know everybody at Senior Bowl got to talk to run, you know, the gauntlet with all the teams. So you did get to talk to the Cowboys. How did that go? And what would you think about being able to play for them? The meeting went very well with the Cowboys. You know, I gave a little a little bit about the Marks Lawrence.

told them they drive me I'm definitely going to be coming for the market I love you. Coming to compete with a guy that you know you're watching you're growing up so it definitely went well and you know

to get the opportunity to go play with them would definitely be special. One of my favorite notes about a player you know guys always pick numbers for different reasons I know J.C. Horn wore

number one at South Carolina just because he said it was cold he said it's just a great number but I know you've got the number nine that you wore Coastal Carolina I know that means a lot to you tell people about why you wear the number nine.

So I won't a number nine because of my brother. My brother actually passed to New Kingie when I was nine years old. You know, football was always something that kind of brought us together. Just seeing him go through fighting with cats or stuff, you know, he was a guy that never complained. He was always smiling. You know, he always had that on his face. And I just try to embrace that.

You know, when I play football, you know, I'm all the guys trying to uplift everybody. Not just on the field, even outside of the field. You know, they have problems. I want to be that guy that guys can lean on, just being a good captain, you know, being a good leader in a road market. Is that your main drive in pursuing the NFL as your brother? Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, like I said, that's one thing that always brought us together.

You know, we love football. So that's definitely my main driving force, you know, for playing football. How exciting is it to play at a place like Coastal Carolina, get on the phone with a guy like DeMarcus, Lawrence and now find yourself on Zoom calls with GMs and head coaches in the NFL? It's amazing. You know, when I was younger, you know, me and my cousin grew up playing outside, playing football, you know, watching different games and stuff. You see, you see stuff going on.

But, you know, it's just something that you dream of. I mean, I'm going to be there one day, you know, and then every year, you know, once I started playing football, just build it towards it, build it towards it. And then finally, you know, you see some of the fruits of your. labor. You know, most of the time you can't see it when you're working. But I'm to that point now that I can, you know, kind of see a little bit of a work coming. So, man, it's great.

You know, it's just a blessing. I just got to thank God for the opportunity that I'm at now and, you know, to be able to even be in the place that I am now. Where do you feel more natural in the defensive line? I feel comfortable in those positions, but I would have to say in the 4-3 scheme, probably at the defensive end and then the 3-4 outside linebacker. When you talked to the Cowboys, did they express to you where they saw you? Did they see you as a guy who stood up or did they see you with your hand in the dirt, rushing from like a wide nine?

Did they talk to you about that any? Not really. You know, they kind of just wanted to, you know, just flash who I was as a person. Then kind of my understanding and knowledge of football, they flashed a couple questions there. I think that. Was that in a Zoom call or was that like at where was that? So at the Cibbeau, you know, we meet with the A team. You know, we just meet with the scouts.

Some team recorded. but I can't remember if they had it recorded or not. But, you know, I'm just talking face-to-face with the scouts there. You know, they'll just pick up my brain in that fashion. I think that last year, if you were to just poll college football fans of like, hey, what was the chippiest football game? I think they would probably say it was that BYU, Coastal Carolina game where things got a little intense.

There was some, there was some aggression. Is that, do you think that was a good representation of the type of intensity you might see on Sundays? Oh, yeah. I never feel like that game was probably the closest representation. You know, the energy that we had for that grade was amazing, man. You know, I never forget, you know, the came in and they changed the game three days away. You know, we're supposed to be playing liberty. We were already fired or played liberty to those were formerly our rivals. But, you know, get a chance to play BYU, you know, and then going into the game, all of the people that doubted us, you know.

We haven't seen something like a little high video. I coached a man for us where everybody's like, oh, they're growing in. And, you know, the culture, they're playing kids. Like, you know, they're not going to be able to beat these guys. So, you know, it was amazing to just get out there with people, my brothers, man. And just put the world on notice, you know, that coastal is a really good football team. What's the biggest question you think teams have had for you during this process? Everybody's always got, you know, a targeted area that they need to work on before they get to the next level.

What's the thing teams most want to know about you? I think especially my size of that. I'm at now, you know, I've had that question of either tweeter, where he's going to play at. But in terms of playing the three, four, a lot of the teams have told me, you know, they don't see if I can drop in, you know, in the coverage and everything like that. And I'd be able to show that at my pro day. In terms of the four, three, you know, I've heard from teams, you know, just being consistent sometimes with my footwork and everything.

But, you know, that's pretty much what I've been hearing. I've heard flexibility, you know, not this year so much, but, you know, my past year. So, you know, I try to combat that with doing yoga, different things like that. But, you know, currently that's probably the things that I've been hearing the most. When they ask you about the size, do you say, hey, Elvis Dumerville played at 5-11 for like a decade. Y'all chill out. Yeah, man, I try to watch that, man. If you can play football, you play football, you know, at any size, man, you know.

I love when I see the smaller guy. you know, the underdogs coming out and dominating the guy that's twice their size because I'm like, man, if you can play, you can play. It doesn't matter how to be. What do you think is your most pro-ready trait? I'll say my best pro-ready trait, you know, in terms of, you know, on the field, it's definitely probably my hands. I feel like this year it's one thing I definitely try to key on this getting better with my hands.

You know, I talk to some of my coaches and stuff from previous years, and they was like, you know, don't just rely on that pure just athleticism, you know, They want to see me be able to be around the corner. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or Rourable. wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush

got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense

of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Keer Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app,

search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Use my hands for going up to this year. That's one thing that I definitely focused on. I felt I got better at. You seem really coachable in the sense that, you know, even as we're sitting here and talking, I love the guys that can assess their game, talk about what the knocks have been,

and then going out of their way to address those. Is that a fair assessment of you? Oh yeah for sure. I'm definitely coachable, man. I literally like after every year, I talk with my coaches and I see, you know, what I need to work on, what part of my game and, you know, how can I improve it? You know, going to this year, my coach said he wants me to get a little faster, you know, he wants to see me that flexibility. So I said, you know, okay, I dropped 10 pounds, you know, and I started getting the yoga, you know, just working on the little things that he said, you know, and I definitely feel like I improved, you know, in those areas. You are, we mentioned about being coachable. I know for a fact that you, you know, for a fact that you, you are because our good buddy here on the show we've talked to. Brandon Tucker has talked about that. What have you been able to learn from tuck while you've been working at MJP?

I've learned a lot from Coach Tuft, man. I love him, man. He's talking me a lot, you know, not just about my position I previously did, but he's talking me about detack and stuff, outside linebacker stuff. A lot of that knowledge, you know, I didn't have previously, you know, because it's just a new position. But I've learned a lot from tough, man. Has he made sure to take you to Hutchins' barbecue yet? Man, it's crazy because we were just talking about this last week saying he was going to get me and one of the other guys I work out with ham, and he's going to take us to it. So I'm going to see how good it is.

I've heard from some of the other guys, and this is good. They may wait until after Pro Day, because Tuck will like to just, like, load up and binge guys, and you don't want to put on that extra five pounds, man. I can't do that. to high. Taran Jackson is a defensive end from Coastal Carolina and one of the really exciting, I'd say sleepers in this class, a guy that a lot of people are excited about. You can follow them on Twitter at Taran underscore Jackson. Toran, thanks so much, man.

Best of luck. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. PG&E Energy Centers offer more than 500 free online classes. Get a competitive advantage when you learn from industry experts through live webinars or over 80 on-demand classes. Feel your career by enrolling at pge.com slash training.

If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council.

Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to advancement. adventure and they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Joining us now is Cal Defensive Back Cameron Bynum. You can follow him on Twitter. It's at Cam Beezie underscore. So there's that little underscore at the end. Was Cam Bezzi itself already taken, Cameron? Yes, I had to find a way

Camp Beezy 24 was taken. I was like, all right, I got to put underscore. I was mad. What a pain, man. All right, so you were one of the few who did choose to, or not one of the few, you were one of the ones who decided to play this season, even though with the shortened season there with Cal and everything going on with COVID. Do you have any regrets about deciding to play?

Are you glad you did? I know we talked to Paul Senebaud at Stanford. He said he was glad he didn't. He felt good about the decision because there was a little bit of stop start and he thinks it would have thrown him out of his rhythm. Do you have any regrets or do you feel good about the way you handled it? I have no regrets at all. My mentality, once they uncanceled the season and let us play in the ball,

I was thinking, if I can play football, I'm going to play football. I'd be a lot better off as a football player, actually getting those reps and be able to practice for those months and play however many games we're able to. And I'd feel a lot better by myself doing that than just training an extra couple of months. So I was like, if I have a chance to play some football, I'm doing it regardless. How disruptive was it even when the state of California wasn't less? people practice at their facilities at times.

Was Cal in the mix of that? Yeah, in the Bay Area, it was super strict. So the entire time, we didn't have a locker room. We were changing outside in the tunnel. We didn't have a wait room, so we had to move the weight room out to our practice field. And, yeah, basically every, like, we had position meetings outside that moved TVs or 50 degrees

at 6 a.m. before I practice and stuff, and we're out there doing meetings, shivering cold. So we had to get it done because we couldn't, We couldn't go inside the building at all. So, like, my whole senior year, didn't see my locker room, didn't have a locker. Everything is pretty crazy. But the end of the day, we got to play football, too. So it was fun?

That's fascinating. How important was it for you to be able to go compete at the Senior Bowl with some of the limited exposure that other guys are getting this year? I think that was huge. Just like, especially for me, I was able to get four games in at Cal. And I know a lot of other people got a lot of games canceled. Some people opted out. So just having that chance to show your skill right before the whole draft process starts up. That's probably super big for the evaluation process,

being able to see you this close to when they're drafting you and just being able to compete against the best. I was my favorite part being able to compete against the guys that you see on TV every week and be able to compete at the end of day. You were obviously up close and personal with a lot of scouts, GMs, and coaches. Was there one that really stood out for you an experience? I would just say with the Miami staff because that was my team for the game. And I had my college coach that coached me in college for three years.

He was the secondary coach for the Dolphins. So that was just cool being with him again and being familiar with the defense and with all the terminology and everything. That was really helpful to me. And it felt like I was back home again at Cal. So that was probably the best experience I had. Who gave you the most trouble at senior bowl practice? week. Who's the biggest handful? Eskridge.

Oh, Dwayne Askerge at Western Michigan, yeah. Real good. Now, when you got to there, I know everybody at Senior Bowl was able to talk to all the teams. We're obviously Cowboys-centric here. Do you get a chance to talk to the Cowboys, and how did that go? It went really well. I was able to talk to every team

except the Rams. They weren't there. But talking to them, a lot of scouts that I've seen in my area before that I've met. So it was just cool of being able to catch up been, interview process was long there. So I was glad I was able to talk to everybody for sure was able to get a good conversation

and interview with the Cowboys. How would you describe the conversation with the Cowboys? I would say kind of more personal than the other ones because they've met me a lot of times before. So they weren't asking as many like background questions because they've seen me and been in my school a lot, especially those scouts that were talking to me.

They've met me a couple of times. So we were more talking about kind of more live stuff that our defense is and just giving an overview of the whole week and stuff versus just asking like background type of thing. Where do you feel most comfortable at the next level in terms of scheme fit? Are you a guy who would feel better about being in a cover three system or somebody who wants to play some press man? Where do you feel like I can do it all?

That's something I was able to do in college, you play any cover three who played a lot of cover four also, but also did a lot of man. A lot of our cover three is turned into man. So I think me, I pride myself in being versatile. So whether I play corner or safety or nickel, I feel like I'll be best in any schemes. I'll prepare myself super well. Did Dallas give you any inclination of what they kind of view as?

Do they view as a boundary guy? Do they look at you as a safety? No, they didn't tip their hat on any of that. But I know every team asked me if I'm willing to play other positions and move around. And that's something I'd be willing to do any time of the day. There have been a lot of great players who have graduated from Cal. One of my favorites, of course, is Cam Jordan, Mr. Personality.

If you had to power rank your top five Cal football alums, who would they be? That's tough. Obviously, Aaron Rogers might be at the top. He might be one of the best ever after Brady. Kenan Allen, I know he's a dog. Deshawn Jackson. Namdi, and I say Jalen Hawkins and Ashton Davis at number five. Oh, you give an Ashton to look at.

There's just so many that have come out of there. Exactly. So I was like, I got to put my own teammate there. Evan Weaver's going to be upset, man. I got to go at the DV. Well, what do you think is still the biggest question in these conversations you have with teams and things like that? What do you think is the biggest question teams still have for you?

Probably versatility, just because I've only, play corner my whole career. And I don't see that as something that's put me behind the curve at all just because I think corner is the hardest position on the whole defense. And if I'm able to play corner, I can easily move in at safety and guards slower, tight ends. And me playing corner this whole time, for sure, can cover. And if I'm moving in the nickel, I'll be able to play even better.

So I think my versatility is something that hasn't been showed off much in the past, but it's something I know I'll define it. What is the biggest thing that you yourself still look at and say I'd like to be better at that I want to improve that I'll say versatility in the senior boy I went to play the slot a little had a little trouble the first first day just because it's something I've never really done too much besides taking a couple of practice reps if it's a man coverage I go guard the slot so I'd say just slot coverage just knowing those different angles and different route tree coming from there is something I want to get more reps at

Now I know you've been working out there at MJP. Clay Max, been out there, I know too. And so are you working with Clay? And if so, how's that been? Yeah, I'm working with him multiple times a week. And it's been super well, going super well. And I think he's a great coach just preparing us how to move and getting us all of our functional movements. Like, people think like you just go out there and just do the drills and just practice the combine drills just for these couple months.

But he's teaching us, breaking out every single movement, every angle. So whatever drill they put us through. Pro day I'll be able to do well just because my functional movement is tip-top shape. So that's what I like about him. He's a real technician and technical coach. Now we mentioned that you did get a chance to talk to the Cowboys. How would you feel about potentially ending up? You're in the Dallas area right now.

How would you feel about calling this home? I love it. I love it. I'm for sure going to live out here, buy a house out here long term. Really? You liked it that much. It would be a blessing to go anywhere. But at the end of day, if it's Dallas, how we have.

Before we let you go, I wanted to ask. ask you, have you been to Dallas before and lived here for a while or is you just wanted to buy a house based on just your limited time here? Yeah, so last year I came out here to train, get a three-week head start at MJP. So I came here last year during my winter break, train here. So I wanted to see, okay, this is a place I want to train and they're actually super good and be able to train and do the workouts for like a year before I get here. So I don't have to waste time trying to learn when my time is here. So that time, I did a bunch of of exploring went and looked at model homes,

lifted property and all that, and I was like, yeah, this is me. That's amazing. Yeah, so this year I did it again, and I'm like, yeah, I'm sure they're not here. So you could... It's all about manifesting, man. So you could be playing... You could be playing for the Titans, maybe,

and you would still try and have, like, an off-season home here or something? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I want to buy land here as soon as I... Oh, look at that. You literally have been living in California, like, by the ocean, in the Bay Area, and you still choose.

Dallas. Yeah, because I have $2 gas. I smile putting gas on my car. Back then, I was filling up my Nissan for like $65. That's amazing. That's good stuff. Well, Cam Bynum, you can follow him on Twitter. It is at Cam Beezie underscore. Don't Cam Bezzi 24. Don't Cam Bez, somebody else already stole those. But you can find Cameron vignam on Twitter at Cambezi underscore. Cameron, thanks so much and good luck during this process. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Joining us now is Northwestern Offensive Tackle, Roshan Slater. You can follow them on Twitter and Instagram at RDSL8R. See that SL8R Slater.

You get it. Roshan, how you doing? Doing great. And now the thing I want to knock out first, I want to give you a chance to talk about because I know I've been screaming it and other people have been screaming it for you, including Duke. Why is it, in your opinion, in your own words, why is it that you are not just a guard,

you can play tackle at the next level? Yeah, I mean, that's why I played my entire career in Western. You know, in the Big Ten, had the opportunity to go against a lot of guys who ended up being high picks because we're doing well in the NFL. I've definitely got the film, and I've got the technique too. You know, maybe I don't have the elite length that some teams are looking for in tackles,

but I do have the technique and the know-how that despite that I'm able to play really well. when you is that anything that in talking with teams you've had to make that case for I'm sure the teams have

their own ideas you're not going to sweat but have they asked you about that yourself just kind of see all right let's see how he explains this himself

yeah for sure it definitely comes up most teams I've talked to do see me as a tackle really what they value is the versatility I bring like I have no doubt that I can play really well

at guard too but you know most teams are on the same page with that I remember the first time I watched your film. It was after Duke had told me to watch you going up against Ohio State and Chase Young. And I remember just being struck. I called him and I was like, he is so much stronger than I would have guessed just looking at him out there. Do you think you're, in terms of

just with people talking about, oh, he doesn't have the link to do this. And my own preconceived notions of, oh, he doesn't look like he'd be a mauler. Do you think that that drives you, all those sorts of different doubts, does that drive you to excel in certain areas? Yeah, absolutely. all the time. That's one of the biggest things I've been working on with Duke is just, you know, people are always going to be questioning my length is what it comes down to.

So, like, all I can do is control my technique, my strength, control what I can't control. So we've been working a lot in the run game too, just like working on leverage and stuff like that to be able to make up for anything. Now, you were one of the guys that opted out this year. Walk me through how you created personal structure and more importantly, stay motivated as there were so many questions,

I think for a lot of these guys, as they made decisions about what the season was going to look like, if it was going to get played, and then you see it getting played. And there you are going and working at a training facility. How hard was that? How did you stay motivated? And more importantly, do you think it was a good decision now looking back?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I was all in on the season. I was playing, I think practice for about two days of fall camp before they canceled the season. And from there, I made the decision that I wanted to come, you know, started investing in my NFL career here at MJP and with Duke. And I've been here since then. So I was training for about two weeks when they reinstated it. And at that point, it really came down to, you know, I really felt confident in the training I was getting.

I was already seeing a lot of improvements in coaching, stuff like that. And with all the uncertainty, it's not something. football, I just decided to, you know, stay on that path. And so, no, I really haven't had any regrets with it. Northwestern ended up having an awesome season. I'm so happy for those guys. But the way I saw is, you know, I'm taking that step, you know, into the NFL. And from from here on out, I have no room for regret. Everything I'm doing now is going to, you know, I'm working towards that ultimate goal of having that great rookie season. And so that's been the focus and that's been my elevation this whole time. It's fascinating because we may not see a season

like that again as we see the vaccine rollouts and we're seeing, you know, more of this move towards herd immunity. So this to me was such an interesting season. And like I said, it's so hard to make a decision when you don't have all the information in front of you. But to your point, you know, the NCAA only allows so much time to work on technique and the nuances that come with your position. How far ahead do you think you are as a player? Because you've been training since what you said, Yeah, I've been down here since August, or working with Duke, and it's unbelievable. Like, you know, while those guys are playing a season, like, that's definitely some positives to come from playing the season, but I've been down here working with, you know, the best of the

best, and it's been like very one-on-one, especially in the fall. And so I feel really confident, you know, I've been eating the nutrition plans and working with the therapist, general mobility, stuff like that. so it's all kind of just adds together and you stack day after day and it's a lot of you know added time just investing in myself and so it's it's been awesome how does your body feel not having some of that live work do you think it's it's benefited you know because when you think of high school and college and sort of the wear and tear do you think there's been an advantage there as well yeah I think so my body feels outstanding and I've just been working so much on my body

as far as like body composition and mobility too. So, you know, that's feeling really good. Now, when you talk about controlling what you can control, what is it that you're, I guess, most still looking to get under control? Where do you feel like there's still a deficiency or something you need to work towards or something you want to, maybe not a deficiency, but something you want to polish up or make stronger that you think you're going to have to prepare yourself for

at the next level? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things. Like some of the things I've been focused on a lot with Duke is changing direction and space, working on my drive-kn off my backside leg, getting out of my stance more efficiently and getting good hand fits in the run game, and just like find the little areas to switch my game up just to, you know, be able to keep like go over on blocking guessing as far as different types of sets, different kinds of hand usage and stuff like that. Now, we are Cowboys focused here, and I know you're from the Sugar Land area, Houston area there. Do you grow up a Cowboys fan,

or were you Texans or who did you cheer for growing up? Really, I never was super loyal. to any team. But for me, when I started, like, falling in love with the game, I started to, like, attracted to, like, really good linemen, really good lines. And so there were the few teams I followed, and Cowboys is definitely one of them. Watch a ton of, you know, Tyron Smith, just trying to learn from his games and stuff like that. So, yeah, that would be really cool. Is that a team that you've been able to talk to it all during this process?

And is that a place you'd like to end up potentially? Yeah, absolutely. I'd be blessed to go anywhere with, you know, kind of. always would be amazing. I haven't really talked to them yet, but it's still pretty early in the process, I feel like. Now, I know one of the big things, one of the things that you are passionate about on social media

is hyping up your teammate, Greg Newsom. A lot of people are starting to get him on the radar too, and it looks like Northwestern could have two highly drafted players there. What is it that makes Greg such an elite player and a guy that's going to succeed at the next level, you think? He's just such an awesome competitor, man. And like you look at this season, shortened season, and on top of that, he wasn't even able to play every single game. And he still, at the time, he wasn't able to play, you know, was just consistently dominant.

You look at a guy like that who didn't have the same time to repair, really, as everyone else. And he made it count even more when he was out there. So I have a ton of confidence in Greg as a defender. You know, I don't know too much about a DV technique, but from what I've heard from our receivers and everything, like he's super detailed the way he goes about, you know, covering me. people. So I think he's going to be great. Well, you can follow Rashon on Twitter and Instagram. As I said, it's R-D-S-L-8R. And with the Cowboys picking at 10 and Roshan being in that top 10 conversation, he very well manned up with a star on his helmet. So get to know the guy. Rashon, we appreciate your man and best of luck.

Sir, thank you all for having me. I really appreciate it. All right, a lot of great players there that we just talked to, a lot of interesting people. I'll tell you who I was really impressive. I loved Alex Leatherwood. That guy's sharp. He's great. That's somebody who, you know, maybe could be in the 44 range when the Cowboys pick. If they don't go offensive linemen there in the first round, maybe they look for a tyrant replacement a little bit later on. So those are names certainly to know over the next couple weeks, and we're going to keep talking to guys, keep finding guys that you can hear from heading up to the draft. And as we sign off here, just get DAC done.

You know, that's all that matters is that signed DAC Prescott. And a special thanks to the Michael Johnson Performance Center for making these guys. available. Yes, especially Jessica. Thank you, Jessica, for all your help there. If you design, engineer, build, or maintain buildings in California, you can get free technical training, continuing education credits, and prepare for a range of certifications through PG&E's online classes. Enroll at pge.com slash training. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey. or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.