The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Defergate; Rams Blowout Takeaways; New Kicking Issues; Cowboys Insider Mike Fisher on if Garrett's Still Gone

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby try to figure out what clicked so well for the Cowboys in their blowout win over the Rams. Also, Mike Fisher from 105.3 The Fan in Dallas stops by to talk about whether or not Jason Garrett can salvage his job with the Cowboys. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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Go to 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt. A Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. It is heads. Dallas is what calls. Deferred. You want to kick. You defer the second half. No, no, no, you don't want to kick. You want to defer.

Which go? You'll defend this in. Very good. Do you think he got that, babe? Because if they say kick, I'm trying to listen. If they say kicked, then the Rams would have their option in the second half. Yeah, but I don't know. I couldn't hear. Well, he said, Dak said we want to kick. Jack said we want to kick. And then technically, if that's all that was said, technically, which is not a technicality,

this is what would happen. The Rams will get their choice in the second half. Well, Bobby, we've done how many podcasts now in this three game losing streak? Six. Yeah. We have focused on a team that could. beat a winning opponent, a team that struggled with miscommunication, a team that couldn't get on the same page and play complimentary football. And after that start to the game, the miscommunication, which is the craziest thing that I've ever witnessed or waited for the league to make a decision or the Cowboys to communicate that to the league, we literally went into the half not knowing who was going to receive the ball.

It was fun. I was over talking to our friend RJ Ochoa from blogging the boys right before half, and before they were about to come out of the tunnel, he goes, oh, real quick, let's make a bet. Are they going to get the ball or not? I mean, that was the kind of discussion, but it was like, are they going to get it? This will be like a fun little surprise coming out of halftime. And it was really confusing. The thing it reminded me of a little bit, not nearly the same with the call, but there was a game years ago. I don't know if you remember where I think it was Thanksgiving, the Steelers were playing.

the Lions and it went into overtime and Jerome Bettis called heads and the referee flips it and goes, all right, it is tail or it is heads. So lions you win. And then Jerome Bettis is going, I called heads. And he goes, no, you called tails. He goes, no, I said. And it was this mass. And I think Pittsburgh won the game and it didn't end up mattering. But it was a big deal at first where it's like, how can you not understand what the call was? And it had that same sort of weird feeling. Well, and to peel the curtain back, you and I are sitting in the press box, a Judy Patista, a reporter that I respect immensely, who works for the NFL network and, you know, has ridiculous connections with the league and the league office. I'm turning to her going, wait, I'm confused. I'm going to play back the audio that I just

saw. I'm going to play back the video. What are you seeing here? And then, of course, Fox goes on the broadcast and they play this. It is heads. Dallas has won the talls. Defense. Defense. We want to kick it. Kicking it that way. You want to kick. We defer the second half. You're going to kick. So I walk into the locker room. You and I talked during that time. somebody told Dak, kick it. Yeah, that was one of the things when you were playing the audio that we were talking about. It's like somebody there next to one of the other four guys is saying kick it. That's what's causing this bizarre exchange.

So sometimes when you ask questions of players in the locker room, there are instances where they give you a response that you aren't expecting. DeMarcus Lawrence was standing right next to Dak Prescott while they're at the field. And literally, one of my favorite things in, if you're listening to this podcast, go back and watch the video. So Johnny Hecker, the punter for the Rams, his face says it all. He sees the confusion and he's laughing because he's going, you guys are going to screw yourselves here, right?

It was hilarious. It was pretty funny. I mean, I've watched it probably six or seven times. So I go up to DeMarcus Lawrence and I say, DeMarcus, you were there for the confusion. What happened? And what he said absolutely floored me. What did you think of the coin toss?

You were right there next to Dad. Well, it was my fault. Actually, you know, I want the defense to go out first. I felt like, you know, we had a lot of energy, you know, waiting to get it off our chest. And, you know, we had something to prove, especially after that playoff loss. So it's time to get down and dirty, and, you know, the guys came out ready to play today. Well, where was the confusion in the coin toss? You were right there?

Well, we was going to receive the ball, but I told them to kick it, deferred. So, but once you say kick, I think that means you kick an off in. You've got to kick off the second half. I don't know, but we were supposed to say defer. So, you know, that was the little, you know, confusion. but it's all good. Now, I haven't gotten clarity on this. How can any player go up there as they're doing the coin flip and just arbitrarily aside,

I know we came in here ready to receive the ball, but make a change. I'm feeling it. Defer. Yeah, I mean, it did. The way he described, it did kind of have the sound of like somebody with a gambling problem. Like, you know, I'm feeling it. More bed. I'm going to put the bed down.

Like, I'm feeling snake eyes here. you know, hit me. I'm feeling it. Like it was just, it was weird how DeMarcus Lawrence said it. But I mean, that's, and not to be overly critical of DeMarcus Lawrence, but I will say that, you know, we heard the Mike Garifalo report that, you know, they've really missed Tyrone Crawford. That was their veteran, like, really, you know, smart, savvy guy. And you know this. Like, Tyrone Crawford was the guy. I know you've had experience. Or Tyrone Crawford has walked up to guys who guys are talking to and said, stop talking. Like, shut up. He kept guys in line. And even DeMarcus Lawrence will say Tyrone Crawford was the guy that they would ride bikes together to the facility so they could keep their way down.

They've got that connection. He was always holding guys accountable. And D-law said, I maybe, just last week said as a charity event, I maybe haven't been the leader I should be, you know, stepping up and being that guy. So maybe in that moment he thought he was being a leader. Or something, and I think that's just another symptom of, okay, little over-aggressive, a little bit too much of fun D-law here. we need to just execute a coin flip, please. Let's keep comments to ourselves. But he just, he shouts out, kick it.

And Dak looks over and goes, kick it. And then the rest goes, you're kicking. And then it's no, deferred. He goes, you're kick it. And it was the most bizarre. Like, you've never seen confusion on what are we doing here? Like right at it. We've only had like, it's three o'clock.

We've had 15 hours to prepare today for what we're going to say, receive or defer. And DeMarcus just blurts out kick it. And so after all that confusion, Bobby, then we go to the new kicker because we've talked about this. They have the tryouts. They decide to hold on to Brett Marr. He has another stinker. And then they finally are like, that's it. Like, we've got to move on.

So they bring in Kai Forbath, a guy that was here in 2011 as a rookie and has been all around the league since. Mainly Washington. And yeah. So right out of the gate, he kicks the ball out of the bounds. And right after it happened. I like, Jane and I sit next to each other in the press box, obviously. And like right after the kit goes out of bounds, I like leaned over to Jane.

I was like, that just, this feels like we're going to like get on the podcast tomorrow and say like, well, it started there and it was all downhill and terrible. It just had the feeling of one of those things of like, oh gosh, it's going to be this kind of day. It's going to get ugly. And he has, he's got a serious hook to that kick because he kicked it left out of bounds. His first field goal, he's lining up and it hooked a little. and when he's kicking the extra point, the kicker can choose on extra points if they're going to kick in the middle

or which hash they want, and he kicks from the right hash, I think probably because he recognizes how much that hooks. But I think that'll agree. My golf game has a similar problem. I think that's going to cause some fun anxiety for Cowboys fans.

But I mean, to be fair, he nail ball his kicks yesterday. Three for three. He was two for two in the 40-yard range. Yep. And it was interesting is Matt, Michael, Michael Galkin, who we had on this podcast a few weeks ago, had this fun fact.

Maher was one of five from 40 to 49 and 13 games. Kai Forbath has made more filled goals in the 40 to 45 range and his debut than Brett Maher had all season. Yeah, pretty terrible. I mean, look, here was the thing. And I don't want to be too critical of Brett Maher because it's the kicking position. It's been done for a week. The guy's out of a job. That's unfortunate.

But you know what? And I like Brett Maher. I thought he was a nice guy, but he's, you know, he was, that was his MO though. He was the weapon. He had the big cannon leg. He could always keep you, you know, his value was late in the game. You need to get into field goal position. You didn't have to get that extra 10 or 15 yards for him to be potentially in range.

And so there were benefits to him. But yeah, you would like some more consistency inside of 50. And hopefully that's what you can get from Kai Forbath. Well, and I always, when everyone starts talking about the kickers, I think a lot of the poor kicker for the Chicago Bears last year, remember? Oh, yeah, Cody Parky. And people were cussing him out. And my argument was that goes to the front office then.

That goes to the GM. I mean, if you keep a liability that you know is a liability on your team and you don't go and try and find a replacement, then that's on you guys. I don't know if I'm putting that completely on the player at that point. Yeah, and I mean, it's not a fun life being a kicker. When you're a badass out of nobody really seems to care. and you know, you can be a guy like famously Scott Norwood, the kicker for the bills in the early 90s,

who shanked that 48-yard field goal in the Super Bowl. Oh, gosh. And he had been a good kicker up to that point. And he is just, that's all he's remembered for us. He shanked what at the time was a difficult kick. A lot of people weren't making 48-yard kicks regularly in the NFL back in 1990. But, you know, it's a tough life for a kicker. Dan Bailey felt it leaving here.

And now he's gone on and found success in Minnesota. and has seemed to calm down. It's, to me, being a kicker is a lot like being a reliever in major league baseball. Like, it feels like you have no clue from year to year if the reliever or kicker is going to be good. Like, they'll be great one year and then the next year they can't do anything. One of my favorite shows that I watched recently is you know how much I adore Mike Leach. I just think he's fascinating and what a gift if I would ever cover him in the NFL. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam?

This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is. about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's gonna be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball.

Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There was this show it's 24-7 college football on HBO, and there was like this just brief part about the kickers. We're on our own island. I've talked to Coach Leach personally five or six times, and that's it. He's out there with the offense, and he just kind of lets me be. He says, go do your thing. That's essentially what you want from your kickers. Leach doesn't even know half their names. He doesn't pay attention to them. You don't want to know the names or pay attention to them. You just want them to be automatic.

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We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. walk a mile in my shoes. And for the Cowboys to bring this full circle, that was getting their offense and defense on the same page playing complimentary football. And we certainly saw that in their win, 44, 21 over the Rams.

If there was a game this year that we would have looked at and thought, all right, this is where they're going to get their act together. This would not have been it. Like I would not have anticipated hungry, needing to win, Rams coming to town who are finally hitting their stride versus cowboys who are a mess and really don't need this. win. That would not have been the game that I would have expected them to kind of put it all together, but they did. And they rallied around these veterans, Jason Witten, spiking the ball for the

first time in 16 years, according to him, says he's going to need to call his granddaddy and apologize, but said, you know, I felt I needed to give a spark. And, you know, the Sean Lee game was fantastic. We interviewed him after the game. And you need to, if you're listening to this, you need to go find the interview Jane did with him because, like, we get this shot, we pan down, look at his uniform. There's blood all over his pants. And he left it all on the field and he said as much that, you know, I needed to step up and really needed to make an impact today. And here's that interview. All right. Before we get going, can we just look at your uniform right now? It looks like you, this really sort of personifies what the box score look like for you. You've been playing in this league

for 10 years. This was your first game with an interception in sack. You missed three straight days of practice. What got into you? You know, we need to step up. defense and personally I needed to step up. The last three weeks we hadn't played like we want to play. And we really thought our identity was a threat. We weren't playing like we wanted to. We weren't running the ball and we finally stepped up and played the way we wanted to play. All right, walk me through this play. Second and 14, 132 to go. When you had that interception, what were you seeing there? Was that from all of that tape that we see you studying like in the Amazon Prime video all or nothing?

I mean, that's tape. It's my coaches. It's kind of understanding the situation, the route concepts that they'd like to run and being able to get a great break on the football. ball and see the quarterback and then afterwards trying to get the ball as close to the goal on as I could it's one of those things where you put that hard work in mentally and physically and hopefully it shows up we saw you sort of selfishly selflessly allow latent van deresh to shine last year obviously hasn't been here because of the neck injury you stepped up once again this year how good does it feel to see you invigorate your teammates the way that you did today every single play you made the team was so into it you felt like it was a spark well I've just been so blessed to be around

this group and they've stuck with me through a lot of tough times through a lot of injuries through games that I missed that I wish I played and I just wanted to come back this year and help any way I could and try to help us win football games and that's what I was able to do today but I know you know we have more ahead of us we have more wins we want to bigger things we want to do so it's a great win but we want to move on to the next and keep going how big is this game for you guys do you get ready to play Philadelphia next weekend well it's always a big game obviously when you play a division rival but it's big end of the year both of us trying to get in the playoffs we know it's a big game we got to embrace that yeah I just I would

I was so impressed with Sean Lee because I had reached out to him because I was interested in doing a sit-down piece. The student becomes a teacher. And the piece was Sean Lee, this guy that, you know, I was there at, what was it, OTAs when he came off the field and entered himself and all the media was out there. And it was, it was hard to watch. We were at Valley Ranch back then. And there's been so many years where he's done the work in the off season. And, you know, we even talked about it this year at Cowboys Camp. all the players, you know, typically ride the plane out to Oxnard.

He has a place out in Santa Barbara where he and his wife stay, and he flew all the way home to Dallas just to get on the flight and fly all the way back because he wanted to be part of the team. You saw the all or nothing special where it's New Year's Day and shot to Sean Lee, one of the last guys up here at the facility, and it's like the saddest thing you've ever seen. Final shot. Final shot.

Season's over. And he's still in there doing film work with the season over. And I don't believe, Sean Lee's not the type of guy. Might I add, he turned down the piece. He wasn't interested in doing this piece where it was the student becomes a teacher in the way that, because he doesn't like the spotlight. No. And so I don't believe, like, in the all or nothing special, that that was a set up shot of him. No.

I think the crew was there. They saw it. They're like, wow, that's sort of intriguing. I don't feel like that was the producer saying, hey, Sean, we know you love film. Let's get this sad shot. He's not the type of guy that agrees to that. No, this wasn't the hills or real. world or something where you're, you know, asking the cast to be in a certain position so you can

get the shot. One of the things I really remember from All or Nothing, I think it was, it was definitely later in the season, but Sean was battling injuries and one of the coaches was talking to him and saying, you know, hey, I don't know that we want to push this talking about his injury. And he got a little annoyed, and it's one of the things that really stands out to me about All or Nothing. He said, quit trying to get me not to play. And it was very stern. It was like, knock it up. he loves the game of football. He really does. And he's one of these smartest guys when it comes to football.

And I just, I really, you remember it was last year, you were talking to Rod Marinelli about him. And he got a little choked up and he said, you guys appreciate this. Y'all don't understand what a special player you're covering. You need to appreciate this because when he's gone, you're going to miss it. It's true. And that's why I wanted to do this piece because it felt like last year was going to be a swan song. You could sort of feel the writing on the wall. And it was interesting.

I had an NFC East team inquire about Sean Lee and his situation in Dallas. And, you know, I said, look, it's no different than what I've reported. You know, obviously, late in Vanderrish has been able to shine. And I had someone say to me, if he becomes available, I want that guy. We're going to go after him. There's a lot of... And instead, Sean came to this facility and he and his agent worked out a contract that would allow him to come back.

And might I point out, they didn't want the details of that, ever get out. He just, again, wanted to do this his way. He didn't want it to be a distraction. He didn't want it to look like he took a hometown discount or whatever that contract was. And that's why I respect Sean Lee. There's a lot of value in... He could have started somewhere else this year. There's a lot of... Here's the thing. And I've said this. There are a lot of people who are upset with Randall Cobb and some of the way he's played this year with some of the drops that he's had. I think overall he's been... I think he's been an important. piece. But here's the bigger thing that I said, and this is what kind of got some pushback on Twitter.

But I said, you know, like, I really hope the Cowboys find a way to bring back Randall Cobb because you really genuinely, I don't think people understand the nature of chemistry and the locker room and how important that is to what they're going to do on the field. And Randall Cobb has been such a key cog as a veteran leader in there. And I think has done a lot to really foster some positivity on offense and really helps. Sean Lee's that guy on defense. And I think that you really need those guys. And so, you know, when you hear about teams that are, you know, asking about

Sean Lee and stuff, it's because other teams recognize even if he's not the same player he once was or they don't know that he can stay healthy, there's value in that guy being in your locker room. Your trash is another team's treasure. And he would 100% have been somebody else's treasure this year. And so I thought it's fascinating that he had the game that he did after missing three days of practice. And, you know, these guys hear it. I'm sure Sean Lee's not a big social media guy. He doesn't strike me as one of those. But he knows the narrative out there about the fact that he hasn't

always been as healthy as he'd like to be. But it's not for a lack of effort. You know, we've talked over the years. He's, you know, tried to get over the hamstring issues and doing things in the offseason to get better. And so that's why I really was looking forward to talking to him after a game. And just how measured and deliberate. He is truly. one of the most intense players that I've ever interviewed or watched. One of the, when I think of Sean Lee and I reflect back on my time covering the Cowboys, I'll always remember being at training camp and there's this poor guy.

I don't know if he's an equipment manager. What does that guy do? I don't know what you're referencing the guy that's always sort of running around and grabbing the football. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just, yeah, one of the equipment guys. This poor guy didn't have the dummy in the right spot. And Sean Lee lit him up, eviscerated. him at practice one day because he wasn't in the position that he wanted him to be on this dummy.

He just literally sort of turns into this jekyll, Mr. Hyde. When he's on the football field, he's insane. And then when he's away from it, he's like sort of this measured, super kind, thoughtful. I think whenever anybody's seen an interview with him or heard an interview with him, he's generally kind of gentle and a little soft spoken and really thoughtful. And you wouldn't have any clue that like earlier in OTAs this year, they're out there. Lewis gets flagged during a drill for pass interference. And every other word out of Sean Lee's mouth is an expletive.

And he's looking at the sideline and going, we can challenge that this year, right? Throw the flag on that. And he's super intent. And that was just an OTA's practice. That's all. Some of my favorite battles used to be Sean Lee and DeMarco Murray. It means surprise people.

Sean's a talker on the field. He talks a lot. So, yeah. And to have him, have the game that he did. and, you know, his nickname around here is the general. You could just see it on the sidelines, and then even today, people reacting to some of the highlight videos. That spin move that he put on those Rams players

and how many it took him took to take him down. I just thought was big. And, you know, we can also talk about Jason Whitten's game. Yeah, well, and before going to Witton, I do want to say, like, when you talk about how important it is, take Dak Prescott, the guy who's the head of the team in his press conference yesterday, he says, the Sean Lee Interception was he said,

that's probably if you had a camera on me, he said, that's the most excited I've ever been about a play in football in my life. And he said, because I love seeing that. And Jordan Lewis talking afterwards saying, like, that's our captain. We love seeing that. We love that. And so, yeah, I think there was a lot of joy about Sean Lee's game and then additionally

about Jason Winton's game and talking about how he spikes the ball. And he's, you know, like we mentioned that, he said he's never done that, but he wanted to bring the juice. And I think. Well, and I think he was hearing the narratives out there, too, that. Yes. Why is he getting more playing time? Because I was told heading into the season that there was.

sort of a divide in this building because they liked what they were seeing from Blake Jarwin. I mean, just look at the final game against the Giants when Jarwin had, what, three touchdowns in that game? Yeah, and I mean, he's made a lot of big plays this year. He's an athletic player. He's an exciting player. And so the argument has been, is Jason Witten on the field prohibiting the development, once again, of the younger tight ends behind him? The biggest problem when Jason Witten left was they hadn't quite developed any younger talent behind him because he was always on the football field. you've got to think that our guy Witton heard some of that.

And you can't argue that that was a tremendous catch. It was almost across the body, right-hand catch. It was behind him. Yeah. He just kind of, and he said after the game. And he said after the game that, you know, you always do those tennis ball drills, which for people don't know, a lot of receivers will do these drills where you're just kind of throwing tennis balls at, you know, various points.

You're supposed to kind of just react and catch the ball with one hand. And he said, you always do those tennis ball drills hoping they, you know, have an impact on the game and there it was. And so it was, it was, you know, moving to his side, having to reach back and just sticking his palm out and catching it. And he was pumped up. He was excited. And I think that was rejuvenating for the whole roster because I think the players in

that locker room, the young players in that locker room, they all really respect Jason Whit and they all really respect Sean Lee. And, I mean, those are your two really longstanding veterans on both sides of the wall. So for them to be such big pieces of this coming together and this bounce back, I think really does a lot to kind of help, as Zeke said, the morale, as he said after the game. Our morale was low, and I think that was a big boost to morale to see those guys being a big part of what they were doing. And look, we just sound more excited in this podcast talking about this game because, as I said,

I think we've done six or seven of these where we're talking about a change in coaching. We believe that there's talent on this roster, that they haven't been able to put it together. Why is that happening? Why is defense been as abysmal as they've been? what has happened to the run game and it seems as though as Jerry Jones said it yesterday in the post game it's just what the doctor ordered.

It is crazy though when you think about just the identity of this team the passing game, the deep shots those are the exciting plays right? We've seen it from Randall Cobb, we've seen it from Michael Gallup, we've seen it from Amari Cooper. It was wild to me that combined

you saw over 300 yards of total offense from rookie Tony Pollard and Ezekiel Elliott and then the Cowboys when you look at their receiving course, Amory Cooper, Michael Gallup, Randallup, Randall Cobb, combined for 22 yards on three catches. And that's partly because Randallop's one catch went for negative three yards. Would have been 25 if it was just Coop and Gallup. But yeah, no, it was.

But we're not factoring in Tavon Austin. I mean, who had a big play. And a big play against his former team and, you know. And remember how chippy he was when they made that trade. Yeah, yeah. It was a trade, right? He didn't know it. Yeah, he was a trade here around the draft.

And I remember him coming in and. You know, we've seen dynamic plays from him in training camp, right? Yeah. Last year, Sunday night football, he had the big touchdown catch to open the game against the Giants. You see it at times. He is explosive. But we see him typically, I think the fans see him on special teams. And he's not exactly giving you a lot there.

And then, of course, there was the fair catch situation with the Vikings a couple of weeks ago that led to questions about accountability from Jason Garrett. So I think he probably appreciated the fact that he got that done. I know Jason Garrett is a huge fan of Tavon Austin. It was probably excited that he had that for himself as well. They love that Tavon Austin can give you those explosive plays from time to time. But again, one of the big things, locker matters, locker culture matters. That is a guy that is in his short time here a year and a half. Everybody in the locker room loves Tavon Austin, from coaches to players, everybody.

He is such a fun guy. he's always smiling. I remember I approached him to locker last year. I said, I just really appreciate how excited you get during the games. I just want to say that. And he said, yeah, people always ask me, you know, why I'm always smiling. He said, if you know where I come from, you'd be smiling too to be in this position. And so he's just, it was a good day for a lot of good people, I think, you know, to see Jason

with that. It was an uplifting game. And when you go to that locker room post game, we had said, you know, they don't need this game for their playoff chances. But when you see how relieved, everybody was and how happy. everybody was in the locker, they definitely needed that game. Because look, when you're around this team and you cover them as much as we do, you feel for them because you, you, it's not this team that's like giving up on each other

or given up on themselves. So you saw it there. But it was almost like, why can't you guys get it together against some of these teams that you, in theory, should beat? But then, of course, you look at the Buffalo Bills the way they played. They're now in the playoffs. Yep. you look at the Patriots, you know, that's, that's one of the, then you look at the Vikings

the way they've kept their stuff alive. I mean, really just the last three weeks have been before this game, we're really the only disappointing straight. When you look at some of the other games they lost, they were losing close games, but I think that overall, you have to believe in their ability to hang with some of these teams. It's just been in the last three weeks where people were kind of like, all right, what's happening? This is kind of entering disaster territory.

Because like the Rams on Sunday, you almost couldn't afford to lose. Not so much about the mathematical equation. They couldn't afford to lose because the morale was beginning to slip. And when their backs were against the wall and their coach was on the hot seat, they weren't getting it done. And so you started to think, well, if that doesn't motivate you, what will? But we did see that turn against a really good football team. A really good team that's hungry and needed it.

That was hungry and needed it. And then against one of the league's brightest offensive minds and Sean McVeigh, all of a sudden, Kellynne Moore and Jason Garrett and staff. Yeah, step up. Dare I say they out-coached him? Yeah, I think you can say that. I mean, Jared Goff wasn't having his best day. No.

Todd Gurley incredibly limited. No. Cooper Cup was a non-factor. We didn't even get a chance to mention yet. A guy who stepped up early was setting the tone and making some stuffing play, Good to see Antoine Woods back on the field and making plays that mattered early for setting the tone and stuffing Todd Gertley.

And how about Xavier Suafilo? Yeah. Handling Aaron Donald the way that he did. Everybody on that offensive line stepping up, but I think especially Suafilo is the one that would catch people off guard knowing what type of players there. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth.

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam, this Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game. is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. have on the interior. So, I mean, really a great game all the way around.

And like I said, you could, you could feel it in the locker room post game. They were happy. They were, like, genuinely happy that they had won this game and kind of turned it. And it wasn't the, I know we kind of wondered if they were going to be a little, you know, a little full of themselves when we walked in a locker. It wasn't that. It was just genuine, like, we're happy. We're so glad we won this game.

Let's take this. Let's build on this. It felt there was a sense of humility. There was a sense of relief. And there was a, a, uh, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a feeling of true optimism. And I'm going to tell you, I might be guilty of this.

Oh, no. We're about to bring Mike Fisher in here, and we'll have to see where it comes down. The way that Jerry Jones walked into that locker room after the Bills loss and came out a different human than he was pre-bills game and believed that adversity helped try a hell of a comeback story, I may or may not have also entered that portal

and believe that if this team continues to play the way they did against the Rams, perhaps. Not just enter that portal. I want you all to know she's responsible for planting the idea in Jerry's head. Because as Jerry's walking out of the locker and we're going in there to interview Sean Lee, she goes, hey, Jerry, hell of a comeback story. And Jerry was all about it. It was a little tug and cheek.

But he appreciated it. I said, there's the redemption game. You believe in second chances. I'm just saying, if you look at the way the 49ers lost to the Falcons, you look at the way the Cowboys have played the Saints and the Saints have lost to the Falcons. Anybody in the NFC can be beat this year. That is true. I think there is a possibility that if the Cowboys, like I said, played the way that they

did yesterday, there's a chance. And not only is there a chance that they could. make a run. Prepared for the possibility. Jason Garrett may come back. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800 flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go.

Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom is just... Nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.

And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NhtSA.gov slash the... right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Mitzha and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination.

Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. A guy that has some insight into the mind of Jerry Jones is my buddy, Mike Fisher. Cowboy fans know him well.

You can find him on Twitter at. Fish Sports. And he's always what I call this great storyteller as you get him onto the radio. Uncle Fish. Yes, these great nuggets are so easy to digest. Yeah, it's crowded in that Jerry Jones brain where we hang out, isn't it? It is. It's crowded and complicated.

30 years. Yeah, far longer than I have. I'm not trying to date you, but what I'm saying is you have perspective on Jerry. Make sense of the emotional roller coaster that has been Jerry Jones over the last couple weeks as it applies to his head coach Jason Garrett. I'm sure in real life he's a good poker player. If we actually had cards, he could probably kill us in poker, I suppose.

But when it comes to truth and lies, he's a terrible poker player. You can see it right in his steely blue-gray eyes what he really means. And I even think he enjoyed. the game. So he'll throw out an Easter egg. The other day he's on 105.3 The fan, and the question is about the Oklahoma coach, Lincoln Riley. And he gives an answer about Matt Ruhle of Baylor. Why?

Well, there's a reason why. Because he's interested in Matt Ruhle at Baylor, too. So he throws the Easter egg out. He thinks it's fun. He swears on the radio, fully knowing that you can't swear on the radio, but he does it anyway on purpose. I just think one of the great things about Jerry, and not everything's great about him, but one of the great things about Jerry is the entertainment value

that he brings to us, and he's so entertained by himself too. I think that doubles up. And to your point, he even, I loved his admission to Corey and Kevin on 105 through the fan, that even him throwing out the cuss words, getting dumped, the things that he said. A little bit of controversy is always good.

We got some mileage out of this. All right, so where do you think he's at with Jason Garrett. You know, I had reported and we've talked about this, that there have been some real, I would say, it's not a full-blown coaching search. Due diligence.

It's a look and see. It's due diligence. It's surveying the landscape. He baited the fishing pole. He wanted to see if he could get the big fish. He didn't necessarily get the big fish. Not this fish. Not this fish.

But in the absence of a Sean Peyton and a Bill Belichick, could you see him really moving on from Jason? Garrett after this season if they win a divisional game. You have to say publicly what Jerry and Stephen even, Stephen even more crisply has said, which is no, you have to say that. We believe in Jason. We've always believed in Jason. We're always going to believe in Jason.

That's what you have to say. But the idea of it's a coaching search, but kind of not, is half pregnant. A coaching search is a coaching search. Even if you already have one that you love, if you're married and you love her, but you're thinking about cheating? You're thinking about cheating. It's almost cheating. Jimmy Carter would say it was cheating.

Okay. Because you had an affair of the heart. The Jones family is having an affair of the heart on Jason Garrett. This is going to be new for you because I know that you are happily married to Marsha and you would never download Bumble on your phone. I would not. Bumble is a dating app. Yes. But this is the equivalent of them downloading Bumble and they're just looking to see what's in the area.

They've set the parameters. They want 24 to 36. They want blonde. They want blue eyes. No, no, no, because they have one. This is an Ashley Madison account that they've opened. They're looking for fairs. I know what that is, too.

I'm not naive. Yeah. But I don't, here's where I'm coming from. I'm just curious. I've started this prepare for the possibility. Yeah. Because he, I feel like he wants to see Jason Garrett get it done. He believes in the fairy tale.

He believes in the storybook ending. Jason is his creation. And when Jason gets a win like he did, sort of this redemption game of sorts, 44-21 against the Rams, against an offensive genius that led to them going and getting the Kellyn Moore, he gets that done last night.

They go on a run. And then let's just assume they were able to win the divisional championship. All right. Would he go out there and roll the dice and reboot next season when once again his guy has gotten him close again? What if his guy knows that the time's up?

What if Garrett, as much as the Joneses, realizes 10 years is a long time to say the same message, to the same building, to the same fan base? And I think that's in the back recesses of Jason Garrett's mind, that Jason Garrett and Carolina might not be a bad idea. I'm glad you brought that out because I believe that he is going to go out there and his market value has begun to rise. And I think there's a part of him, maybe Breel saying to him, you know, Jason, we don't have kids in school. school here. We can pick up and move on. And what might it be like if we were unchained? They love New York. Right. As you know, just as a couple, they love New York. And he's got New York ties there as she does. They went to school there. Carolina is lovely in football season. But okay, so again, the interest, the excitement about Jason starts to grow. He starts winning

some games. The players never left him. These other organizations are going, well, Jason you're the type of guy we might like for our organization. Does Jerry get scared of losing him to an NFC East opponent? I say no. If Jason Garrett beats me every once in a while because he's the coach of the Redskins, I can live with that if I've gone out and replaced him with somebody who, for the time, is better. Forget Bill Belichick, who's better.

Forget even Sean Payton, although I'm not sure why we're so quickly forgetting Sean Peyton. I know that your man... He's locked in. Okay. and NFL network and Ian Rappaport, and you are all on this same page here, I believe you,

but he was pretty locked in last year. You didn't go anywhere last year, and you still called him and played footsie with him. Why would you call him again? There was an assumption, I believe, on the Cowboys, as a way was described to me, that perhaps there was a buyout in his existing deal. Right.

And so while they did a looksy, I think Sean also thought, I got a lot of autonomy down here. No doubt. Mrs. Benson trust him. So does Mickey Loomis. He and Mickey. He's the president of New Orleans. The Golden God.

No doubt. But you know. That's like Nick Saban trying to leave Alabama. But someday he might. I just don't think it's today. That was, speaking of Saban, that's funny. I think it's like a Bill Parcell's thing. I think he comes here towards the end of his career.

So do I. I think Sean Payton comes here at the end of his career. That's my point. So do I. But Pat Dony brought that name up to me that he said he thinks given a call to Sabin would make some sense. Sabin's near, you know, he's upper 60s, maybe he's tired of the Alabama thing. They're not nearly the team they were even three years ago. They're not in the college football.

They're not in the college football playoff. And what does Nick Saban have left to check off his box except some success at the NFL? That's the only blemish on his record. And so Dony was sitting there saying that he wondered if when they cast that wide net, as I know you've used the term, why not just call? Hall. Why not see? I wrote on Cowboys s.I.com that my view of what their view should be is. Have you ever seen Jerry's house? It's the finest house. Have you ever met Jerry's wife, Gene? She is the finest person. She's literally the most flawless human you've ever met. Jerry Jones somehow. This facility we're in. It's the finest practice facility. It's the finest. His helicopter is the finest. His yacht is the finest. Why wouldn't you want the finest coach? Why would the one thing in your life that's not the finest be your coach?

Because it's like the Texas Longhorns. A lot of people don't want that job either because there's so much meddling down at Texas. I always compare the Texas Longhorns to the Dallas Cowboys. Okay. But then let Bill Belichick say no thanks. Now, see, here's where I do believe that if a Bill Belichick or Sean Payton or even a Nick Sabin for that matter came in, I believe Jerry and Stephen might hands off because they respect that they don't have to micromanage the thing. You remember he was talking about the jelly?

Yep. The jello. The jello. Right when you think you've got one thing you did. It's like holding two fists of jello in your hands, right when he gets one over here, held it and squeezed out the other end. He also uses the peas on a plate. You ever heard peas on a plate? Yes.

But Daddy used to tell me, it's like trying to balance peas on a plate. Think about it, a bunch of peas on a plate. They don't balance. But it's his way of saying that I know better than everybody around here and I've got to micromanage. He might macro manage. Jimmy Johnson took one of the fistfuls of jello. Correct. Bill Parcells took one of the fistfuls of jello.

Correct. Jason Garrett holds some of the jello around here. so does Will McLeigh, so does Stephen. I don't think the Bill Belichick to Dallas or some of these other guys would ever get Jerry off the radio. No. But that's what they would prefer because then it doesn't look like one voice. You know, that's Aikman's big thing. And he and I talked the other day for like two hours.

He doesn't hate the Joneses. He's not anti-Coboys. He just thinks one voice. He thinks the way that Jimmy Johnson did it. And you talk about one voice? When we say we're having a kicking tryout, we're having one. Well, because Troy lived it. Troy lived the difference.

Troy saw the difference. Whereas here, and Jane and Bobby, you guys were here every day for three weeks. We're having kicking trials. No, we're not. We're having tryouts. Yes, we are. We don't need tryouts. We're fine.

My head sleeps fine when I, it hits the pillow at night, says Brett Maher. After kicking balls out of bounds and sideways and off his own forehead, then they had a kicking trial with three guys that are XFL kickers. And finally, they brought in Kai Forbath, who's an actual kicker. It took them three weeks of dancing and. circles because they didn't have one voice. Okay, but let me ask you this. You cover the Mavericks, too. Yes, mavericks. How much different is this than what Mark Cuban does with his team too? For a long time, Mark Cuban was the general manager of the Mavericks. I mean, he, I remember when I

covered the team, he's doing pre-game interviews on his elliptical, on a stair-stepper, while you're literally catching sweat. Yes. I'm not kidding. No, you've got your, I know. I've heard the story. Your Mike there. Now, you notice. You didn't do that. And he was heavily involved. And he's still heavily involved as the owner. But Donnie Nelson is the general manager and Rick Carler all won the basketball team and they're the better for it. The organization's better for it.

But Rick has sort of earned that respect too. Here's where I come down on this though. I'd be more willing to believe that Jerry's just not going to be able to walk away from Jason if we hadn't, you know, three years ago watched him walk away from Tony and two years ago

watch him walk away from Des Bryant. And those were battles that he lost where he was the holdout. I just keep coming back to the fact that the players still love him. If the players went to Jerry, because Jerry's got that open line of communication with a lot of his guys, if the players came to Jerry

like they came to him and said, Des isn't working. Or I think there were some people who, God forbid I create blasphemy here, I think there were some people that maybe said Tony wasn't jelling with all the players in the locker room the way that Dacted. All true. Which is very fair. I don't think there's any players going to

Jerry and saying Tony's not, Jason's the reason that we're being held back. Do you think Jason went and Sean Lee are going to Jerry and saying that? No.

May I interject? Don't go to the players. The owner doesn't go to the players. I agree. But he does. You know that. But don't. That's their department.

Your department's over here. But see, I think he looks at it just the way that he looks at when he puts Pepsi products and all of the businesses around here. He's talked about it. When he's out in the street,

he's getting feedback from people. There's no question. I think he gathers feedback from everybody. So do I. Big ears. Maybe sometimes too much feedback. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, your your quarterback room also loved Wade Wilson and you fired him two years ago and Dak Prescott wouldn't have said Wade Wilson was the problem either. And I think that's actually pretty good counterpoint. I think he's, I think he's made those decisions before. But you know, and to that idea, I think this is the, the interesting that regardless of what they do with this, you saying that you shouldn't go to the players, that probably not. But, you know, one of the big points that had gone on when it was discussing Dax contract extension

this off scene was well you don't know what coach is coming in here and maybe last night a blown call changed a game this morning the internet lost its mind highlights are trending opinions are flying and nobody's telling you exactly what happened that's where sports slice comes in I'm Timbo every episode we're cutting through the noise breaking down the plays the controversies and the stories behind the headlines we go straight to the source the athlete themselves their locker room stories they reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

That coach doesn't want Dak Prescott. My whole thing has been your new coach isn't picking your quarterback. I think your quarterback's going to be a part of picking your new coach. And so regardless of whether that should be done, I think Dak Prescott's going to have a big say in maybe not Jason's return because I think the Joneses are realizing like that decision's just got to come down to them. But the next guy coming in here is going to be. But I'm telling you right now, DAC has told me a four, go easy on my guy, JJ.

I know. And that's why I think the Joneses are, I think the Joneses are reaching a point where they know that this is the decision that they have to make. We talked about that with Charles Robinson a couple weeks ago, that it feels like some of these bigger decisions, Dak Prescott, Amari Cooper's contract, Jason Garrett's contract. They are pushing these off as long as they can because I think they are such tough internal decisions for them in terms of what they want to do. And then oddly enough, you get like Zeke, a guy that isn't coming up for two years and they knock it out.

And Jaylon, a guy that's not coming up for two years and they knock it out. I think that they're really, I think the fact that he even got into a lame duck year says they're really genuinely considering he may not be the guy a long-term. But I'm saying, consider the possibilities they can't find somebody that hits all the pros list that Jason does. Give me a percentage of what you think, a percentage of Jason Garrett's the head coach week one next year. Because I would say 5%. Me too.

5%. If they go and win... Well, just from right now. But they're not... Just from at this moment, what would you say the odds are? Right now, 20%. Okay. And if they get to the NFC title game,

I'll bump my 5 from 5 to 10. I'll go 65. Oh, okay. See, I think if they get to an NFC title, I think they've got to get to a Super Bowl. I just think it's awfully weird, as we're discussing that Jerry listens to this and listens to that. We're saying he might not give enough authority to a coach.

to have real muscle here, but he'll give it to Dak Prescott? He's giving it to 26-year-olds? No, but I'm saying it's to the locker room that if he has a true walkabout coach, which is what a lot of people have said that Jason is. He's a CEO manager of the team. If there's still a vote of confidence from his employees, they still want to go and maximize their goals,

meet their quotas because of their fearless leader, isn't that a guy that you want in there? I think this is a good week to feel this way, because they just beat a good ram team. They spanked them, and Garrett pushed some right buttons. Except for the coin flip, the cut-up video last week, the Saturday night speech, all that stuff. The players saying their coach got them prepared to play.

100%. But the inmates can't run the asylum. The players shouldn't get a vote. Otherwise, you have anarchy. I agree with you on all merits. My only point is in the, if you had told me Sean Payton, give me the option of Sean Payton and Jason Garrett, that's clear cut for me. Bill Belichick, Jason Garrett, clear cut for me. You put Ron Rivera, you put Mike McCarthy, you put Lincoln Riley, Matt Rule.

Urban Meyer, even for that matter on the table. I go back to the devil that you know. Okay. But it's time, barring a massive success this year, which you could build on for the future, it's time. It's time. this marriage cannot be saved. Now here's... The love...

The love... The love is on the surface. They've drawn up the divorce papers. Yep. But I feel like they're having second thoughts. I'm just telling you. Okay. And if someone who's been married... Jane, I don't know what your story has in your relationship with your Fitbit.

I don't know what... Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, you think Ian's report about her report... Like that to Jason felt like he saw Jerry's Fitbit spike in at 4 in the morning. And he was like, what is this? I am never going to live. Now, were you on the cover of People magazine or am I overrating it a little bit? She was Times person of the year. Gosh, I know with her fit bit.

But I do know this. Don't remarry your ex-spouse. Oh, I agree. So once you know, and the Joneses know, they know it's time that don't make the mistake of remarrying their spouse. I just don't know if they want to get back out there on the dating scene. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast. Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids.

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Here's my question. Bringing back another Dallas Mavericks. It's easier when you've got another lady you're going to move on to. Bringing back another Dallas Mavericks. analogy, which for those of you who don't follow the Mavericks, which I'm sure we have lots of Cowboys fans who don't follow the Mavericks. The Mavericks' reputation for years has been, oh, Chris Paul might come here.

Never mind. Chris Paul's not coming here. Oh, DeAndre Jordan. No, never mind. LeBron might. He's a Cowboys fan. I take some of the blame for that. Dallasbasketball.com.

Go ahead. Just in general. Just in general, that's the way it's gotten. So even though we like to talk about the finest things. If they are making a coach in search at the end of it, is there a possibility that, then it's, oh, Urban, Meyer, Linger Riley. No, actually, it's Dan Campbell. No, actually, it's Dan Campbell. John Fox. Is that a possibility? Okay, all I know is relating that to what Jane just said.

If the reason that Jason Garrett has brought back, and he knows it's the reason is we couldn't find anybody better. That's what happened last year. I know. But Garrett had a contract at the time. There was no reason for Garrett to, at $5 million, what's he going to do? Get his feelings too hurt? But I don't want to be where you. don't want me. I agree. They don't want Jason Garrett back bad enough. Fair enough.

But do you not think that he's invested enough in these guys? Here's what I think. If I was Jason Garrett's agent, I'd start firing out warning shots. So would I? You already felt like it with the Giants. Which they did. They fired out a warning shot. And everybody laughs at it, by the way.

I'd start Cleveland because he's got family in Ohio. Yep. You know, that might be interesting. He's got young guys like Baker Mayfield. and, you know, the Jarvis Lainer, they need to be settled there. OBJ, you know, you've got reports of players telling Cliff Kingsbury, come get me.

You know, last weekend. You got Carolina. Redskins. You got Redskins. Can you imagine losing Jason Garrick's Dan Snyder? Redskins to be, like I've said, that would make the most sense in the world because that's a team that needs a Jason Garrett.

That's an organization that needs a steady hand that can deal with all sorts of persons. I think the Giants would be the perfect landing spot. That's a good, of course they love him. And that part of that story's true. And he could handle the media there because he's not going to give you any material. The beauty of the Redskins is if they went eight and eight,

they'd throw him a parade. They'd put him up in the old ring of, the old RFK ring of honor. And Dan Snyder's a Jerry Jones type owner. Or an aspiring type. Yeah, expiring for 25 years. He's aspired to be Jerry Jones. But as Orlando Scantric will tell you,

the facilities just don't match. Cole Beasley said they were great. That was the bills. I'm just hesitant. to think that the Cowboys can't do better. And I'm hesitant to think that they... They haven't done better for nine years. But here's the point that I...

I don't think I've said this on the air yet. I know we've had this, and I've made this point to you off air when we've talked about it, is that if you would have asked Jerry, or even just your average Cowboys fan, is Doug Peterson a difference maker when he got hired in Philly? Yeah. They would have laughed and said, that's not a guy to take you to a Super Bowl. And then he did it. And he took a team that was missing stars.

I don't think, thinking that you aren't sure if he's better than Jason isn't. Former player in the organization, though, too. Sure. But people may, you know, they do this in Philadelphia a lot. You've got another former player in the organization who's saying the guy's not going to done anymore, basically, and Troy Aikman. And the guy who's his friend. They had, in Philadelphia, they had Andy Reid. And they had, you know, Fat Guy Fridays.

And everybody gets to eat a burrito. Then comes. So wrong. Chip Kelly? Yeah, Chip Kelly. And he says, we're getting rid of Fat Guy Friday burritos. We're going to have protein shakes on Tuesday. And that's your college guy and his system and how well did that do in the NFL.

And now here comes. comes a new guy. So there are no magical answers. I agree. There almost are no magical guys. It's why you see over the course of 50 years, when I have a taskmaster as a coach, then he gets fired, he's replaced by an avuncular Wade Phillips guy. Then in four years he gets fired, he's replaced by a scholarly guy. Then in four years, he gets fired, and we go back to the taskmaster. Okay, but Fisher, can we agree that while the window has been closing for years now, we are entering the fifth season of Ezekiel Elliott and Dak Prescott and sort of this new era of Cowboys, is it fair to say that the Cowboys in Jerry's mind and the coach the

he hires or whether he says Jason need to get a Super Bowl done within a two-year span? Or the next coach would get fired? I'm saying that's what he's hiring for. Yeah, just in general. That's the type of window that Jerry's looking at is two years. Yeah, Jerry started saying this now about five years ago at training camp, but he go, it was the first time I heard him saying, uh, Ms. James ain't got time to have a bad time.

And I turned it into a country song. It ain't got time to have a bad time. He's perfect. But that was five years ago. He was 72. Now he's 77. I guess he's got a little less time. But my point is less about Jerry's time and more about one of you, what does he

always say? His biggest regret is with Tony Rome on them. He wasted their youth. He wasted their years. He can't get a fifth, six, seven and eight seasons with Dak. That's the thing though. I think that I think Jason right now, Jason's position in the organization may feel a little bit at this point to them like we're wasting

Zek and Dax youth. But he could potentially get them into the playoffs again. And as Jerry has said, he's just, what, three years removed from coach of the year? What's new, though? What's new about that? I'm not saying I agree with all this, but I'm giving you all of when he talks about that legal pad and the pros and cons, these are all the pros

on Jason's side, and there's a lot of cons on the, I don't know what I'm getting from some of these other guys. But here's the biggest con on Jason Garrett is this. No, that's only when Isaiah Thomas talks to Tristan. it's out of gas. It's out of gas with the public. It might be out of gas to the public, but was it out of gas with the players

when they beat the Rams? Not this week. But it was out of gas the last three. It was against Buffalo, Chicago, and Minnesota. Okay, but let's see where they, if they use that steam from Jason Garrett to go and win a divisional championship, can you still walk away from?

I'm just saying, can Jerry then walk away and say, I'm going to go with the unknown. Here's what I would have said. Here's what I'll say, is that if you look at last year, when they were sitting at three and five, if I would have thrown out the scenario and said, what if Jason can get him to 10 and 6? What if Jason can get them to win a home playoff game?

What if Jason get him to the divisional round? Wouldn't you have then thought, well, then yeah, I think Jerry's going to sign him to an extension. Right. And they didn't do it. They flirted with another girlfriend. Their bar is much higher with him this deep into it, I think. And they need different result.

This concept that we wasted Tony Romo's time is based on Jerry's belief that Tony Romo is Tom Cruise, the greatest flyer pilot of all. time. They didn't waste Tony Romo's time. They did their best. People do that to the Mavericks, too. Boy, they wasted Dirk DeVisky. No, they didn't. They won a championship and they tried to win 10 others. What do you want them to do? It just didn't work. The Cowboys did everything they could for Tony Romo. And I hope he did almost everything he could for them. Almost. So we've asked just about everybody this recently. Give me your name. Who would throw me a name that you think head coach 2020

week one. The reason that Urban Meyer is attractive to me is not because, because he's not a loon because he is. He's a loon. The reason that Urban Meyer is attractive me is he won't come here and say, here's my 12 guys that I'm hiring. Here's my staff. He won't come here and say, Jerry, get out of my way. I know how to do the NFL.

He'll need Jerry. He'll need Stephen. He'll need Will McLeigh. And when they tell him, we'd sure like you to keep Columbo, Kellan, and Chris, he'll say, fine. I've known those guys for years because he probably has. Whereas if you hire Matt Rule or interview. Matt Rule, like the Jets did last year, Matt Ruhl is going to say, well, I'd love the job.

Here's my 15 guys I'm bringing. Which is why Matt Ruhl didn't take the Jets job. That's correct. And I admire him for that. And that's going to happen this year too. If the NFL team, he's going to say, I'm going to leave these three at Baylor, I'm taking these 10. Couldn't that name also be then with those stipulations? Because this is the name I keep on your Matt. I have no close to those.

Couldn't that name also fit Bob Stoops? Yes. It's weird that he would. He's here in Dallas now. But why did he bother going to the XFL? I think he was signaling in general to people that he was ready to go back to coach. See, I'm more on, I'm more on Fisher's side. I feel like Urban needs them more than they need him right now, even.

But even he admits he's kind of worn out his welcome on the college ranks. And he's talked about how intriguing this NFL deal is from. I mean, he is openly politicking for this job. I also believe that because he has relationship with this Ezekiel Elliott, that Jalen Smith is one of his guys. He tried recruiting him. He. He.

I feel like he'd be the disciplinarian of sorts that you would want to come in here and has skins on the wall. I would bet with how young this team is and how many blue chip players they have, I bet Urban Meyer knows the vast majority of players on this roster. I bet he knows that he's met their families and he knows them really well. every roster in the NFL today. But especially a team like Dallas where Will McLeigh has always prioritized big school players. Right. So my point is, if they were going to legitimately move on, that's the one that makes

the most sense to me. But I also feel like it would be a short-term relationship. Probably, but that's okay. Because then maybe Sean's done. Right. After four years in New Orleans. Come in here, Barry Switzer, your Super Bowl and get out. Yeah.

Hey, let's have Tom Landry be here for 30 years. that's dead. The other thing about Irmaier is. Yeah. Do you guys agree that cowboy fans, some of them are always going to go, oh, I'm still pining for Coach Landry?

Yes, but I also think that Cowboys fans don't seem to understand that, and he's not a bad guy at all, so I don't mean this. But Jason Garrett's not just like the Boy Scout. Like that's what he puts out of it. But Jason Garrett will cuss and scream at people.

Since the only guy that actually got this done, why hasn't there been a concerted effort to just go to Jimmy and say, Jimmy? What was the secret sauce? That wouldn't work ever again. The relationship obviously isn't good. In fact, I bet you my relationship with Jimmy's better than the Joneses really is down deep, and that ain't saying much.

I thought they'd mended fences. You know, for fake. For TV interviews. I would love it. And listen, Jimmy, if you're listening, I'm just kidding. I don't want to get sued. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Michael Bennett listens, apparently, so maybe Jimmy listens.

You're awesome, Jimmy. Awesome sauce. If I was the Joneses, for public relations reasons, At least, I'd hire Jimmy Johnson as a consultant. And then I'd really listen to him. That's my point. I'm with you. It would look great and he would sound great.

And he really does know what he's doing. Jimmy, like I say, Merry Christmas. Go call, uh, you want to go pull somebody out of the booth like you did with Parcells a few years back? Go call Bill Cowher. Go call Tony Dungey. Just throw out the field. Tony Dungey is a lovely person. Yeah, Tony is.

I do think it's unfortunate, though, that Troy and Jerry can't sit down and talk because I do think there's some merits to some of Troy's arguments. I mean, his broadcasts have been pretty matter of fact. And he did give them credit where credit was due yesterday. He also talked about the fact that if they catch some steam and some momentum here, he does believe that this is a team that could do some pretty incredible things. All right. I'll tell you this.

The reason they're not going to sit down to lunch among the many others is this is what one person who would. We'll just go watch football life. Yeah. Yeah. One person who would be at that lunch if they hadn't said they already know what each of them thinks. Jerry already knows what Aikman thinks.

He says it every Sunday. Aikman knows already what Jerry thinks. Jerry's doing it every Sunday for 25 years. And not to say that I don't think those two have a bad relationship at all. Like Jerry and Troy are still... I think Jerry respects a level of honesty as long as it's fair. Well, and I mean, like I said, Don Van Nata said a couple weeks ago, said that Troy is one of the few people Jerry really does listen to. Jerry may not take his advice on who's going to hire.

But, I mean, I think Jerry does. Let me interject this. Their relationship is not what you would like it to be. You dream of mommy and daddy staying married and they're not married. Well, if you watch again football life, Troy very candidly talked about how he, concussions was one thing, but it was also he was sort of tired of the way that Jerry was running the organization and he almost came out of the booth to go play for the Eagles. See, I think Jerry wishes that Troy would be a loyal cowboy.

Like Michael Irvin. Like Michael. That's exactly what they would say if they were. sitting here. That's exactly what Aikman thinks. That's exactly what Jerry thinks. Neither them are wrong. But Akeman's like, I can't do that. That's not my job. And Jerry's like, but I've, but I've been loyal to you. Can't you be loyal to me? So that there's a separation that exists there. It's, it's not the reason that Troy Aikman will never be the general manager of the Cowboys, because even if they got along great, he would never be the general manager of the Cowboys because

he would need Jerry to step way aside. He would want to take charge of the football operations. He would want to hire his own right-hand man who has more experience than him. Will McLeigh would therefore say, well, what's my role? I'm not staying here. Right. I already got two guys above me. Now I got five. So that marriage, I'm sorry, little junior and little sissy, but mommy and daddy, you're

not getting back together, Troy and Jerry, ever. Storytime with Fish. Fish, I could have you on this podcast for hours at a time. We hope that you'll come back. Well, I missed three radio shows why I was doing your... Did you really? Look at that. That was so kind of you.

All right. Well, we look forward to revisiting with you again on the subject of the Cowboys and the drama that has unfolded over the years since you are such a historian of sorts. Hopefully we'll talk about this Cowboys win over the Eagles and then them getting into the playoffs on our next podcast. And then again, we'll continue to kick around the future of Jason Garrett hearing that. Yes. And again, as we mentioned last week, thanks to our friends at Road for the Roadcast. Pro that we recorded this on today. This is an Ashley Madison account that they've opened.

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That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports

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This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

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