The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Earl Thomas Watch; Ex-Cowboys QB Coach Jon Kitna Talks Dak, Garrett Era Ending; Trainer Brandon Tucker on Aldon Smith, Trysten Hill Turnarounds

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby have the latest on "Earl Thomas Watch" and .are joined by former NFL quarterback, and former Cowboys quarterback coach, Jon Kitna. Kitna discusses his time in Dallas, what makes Dak Prescott special, and his new job as head coach at Burleson High School in Texas. Plus, Brandon Tucker from Trench Warfare Training stops by to talk about his work with several Cowboys defensive lineman.Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Full details on carnival.com, ships, registry behind us Panama. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt. A Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. Bobby, it's the storyline that keeps on giving, and I mean giving me grief as it relates to Earl Thomas. If you've been following this as a Cowboys fan, as I know many have,

Earl Thomas released from the Ravens for conduct detrimental. And I think the important piece of all this, he was voted off the island by his teammates, not dissimilar to what we were seeing happen in Seattle. I got to tell you, my interactions with him at Pro Bowl, actually after watching him walk into the Cowboys locker room, it was the craziest thing I've ever covered. I remember calling my assignments desk and saying,

you guys have got to see what I just saw. Earl Thomas in a Seattle jersey pads, pants, following the players into the locker room after the Ciacs have eliminated them at home at AT&T Stadium. Was that Dax rookie year? I feel like it was their second year. That was the year with all the Zieg drama

because that was the night they were eliminated from the playoffs. They battled. Here they were. He walks in. And I'm just thinking to myself, on the one hand, disappointment that the Cowboys didn't throw him out of the locker room. I thought, where's the leadership here?

And then the fact that he said in front of our cameras, come and get me. And then I'm thinking he's just obviously had a moment of losing his mind a bit. He's pressed in the locker room. And keep in mind, Seattle has just beat the Cowboys. And he's in that locker room telling reporters, he wants the Cowboys to come get him. And then so fast forward to Pro Bowl, he tells me he's not coming back to Seattle unless they pay him.

And then the Cowboys, in good faith, tried to go get him, didn't happen. And then he ends up taking the money. The big issue for the Cowboys all along has been the price tag. And right now that price tag is somewhere around $10 million. And so I've got a couple of things to say about this, Bobby. One, what message does it send to that Cowboys locker room? if the Cowboys find the money for a guy like Earl Thomas, who's been voted off the island twice,

but you can't find the money for Dak Prescott. I think it sends a terrible message. Yes, the Cowboys could certainly use help its safety, but I do believe them when they say that the young guys are coming on and this is a new defensive system. I mean, we were just, we're going to be talking here with Brandon Tucker, defensive line coach, talked about even just seeing development from Tristan Hill

under this new system. It's a clean slate for a lot of these guys. I don't know if I think adding Earl Thomas to the mix is the best possible thing. And I will tell you this, my sources, I'm getting some mixed messages on this thing. On the one hand, absolutely not. In fact, one said fake news. Then I circled back today. And it was sort of we're grinding here. We're still grinding. What does that mean? Another person says, well, nothing's happening. Nothing's happening because the price tag is $10 million. If that price tag was to come down,

he did a one-year deal and the Cowboys were able to protect themselves, a deal very similar to an Everson Griffin-type deal. Everson Griffin, Alden Smith. The Cowboys are in the business these days of getting team-friendly deals done. I don't think it's outside of the possibility, but I have been saying this and maintaining this, that number is just too high, but my watch continues. It's interesting because, you know,

when Earl Watch was initially going on, starting at the end of 2017 into, you know, 2018 with the bow towards the Cowboys sideline after two interceptions and all the flirtation after that and the very public desire from Earl to come to the Cowboys, I remember when that all was going on, I was talking to somebody who was aware, of everything that, you know, goes on in Seattle and has a pretty good grasp on things in Dallas.

And, you know, there's been discussion this week about how there's a lack of music, a lack of music at practice from previous years with Jason Garrett. And I remember when talking about Earl Thomas, this person said, yeah, that music at practice, that goofing off of practice, like, I don't know that you guys want Earl Thomas. Like, that's combustible because he's not somebody who's going to play around. He's very intense. He's a very intense personality and not everybody gets along with him because of it. And you know, you hear, I think you and I both hear varying things about him that some people interpret his personality to be that's passion, that's drive.

That's the guy you want on your sideline. And other people just write it off as like he's kind of a jerk. I mean, there are some people who just can't interpret it other than that way for themselves. And I think there's an important distinction you made here because to your point, you and I talk to a lot of people, I went to Texas, right? So I know a bunch of people that interact with him. I have talked to both teams in the past about him. This is not a guy where, you know, everyone was freaking out about Everson Griffin. If you've listened to Everson Griffin, this is a guy that was literally named after Everson Walls.

He wants to be a cowboy. He, like, it feels like he's already been buying into this system, right? And if you talk to his teammates, they literally, literally. told me he was the MVP of the locker room. They loved this guy. So whatever issues he had was not related to a lack of respect for his teammates or the locker room. We've heard the narrative about DES being combustible and a terrible team. Not true. Right. You saw the players when that came out on my own network, NFL network, sort of made a remark that he wasn't a good teammate. His own team former teammates retweeted that and said to the to the effect you were an amazing team

team. Zeke and Dak are not going to be working out with with Des in the off season like we saw if he was such a terrible teammate they didn't want to be around. Alden Smith they talked about how combustible he was in San Francisco. We've alluded to this. There was a lot going on within that locker room as it related to his teammate. A teammate which led to him being, this is a a whole different bag of tricks. And as a matter of fact, Mike Silver, my colleague at NFL Network, dropped some truth on Monday's show. Here's what was going on with the Ravens lately.

Well, Andrew, this goes back to the beginning of his tenure with the Ravens because it was bad last year, too. You know, he was late. He missed meetings. They warned him after he got fined repeatedly. Look, at some point, this is going to be conduct detrimental, which would have affect your contract. That was last year. And then things picked up right where they left off at this training camp and not in a good way. A couple of days before the altercation with Chuck Clark,

he had complained that he needed more time between practice and meetings and then explained that he was late to meetings because he had to get his car washed that day, which is a creative interpretation of that. So, you know, things were bad. And then he blew a red zone assignment in practice on Friday. And his teammate Chuck Clark reacted emphatically throwing his helmet, was upset. Earl Thomas essentially said, hey, it's cool. And Chuck Clark said, no, it's not cool. You need to go to meetings and walk through and maybe you'll get it.

So that's how the fight started. But you're right, Andrew, this was a long time brewing. And, you know, not a good situation from the start. So look, arguably one of the best safeties in the game, Mike McCarthy keeps talking about. They want best players available. He's certainly one of them. But I think you're seeing a real pumping of the breaks here in Dallas

because of all the things that we've talked about. And as Jerry alluded to the other day, if he wants to find out who your neighbor was when you were 11 years old, he can. Jerry's done even more legwork than we have as relates to his personality. And then let's not forget some of the stuff that we saw this offseason as related to the COVID party. and the drama with his wife.

And I, look, it's separate from football. But my point is, there's stuff going on with him right now. And while I definitely think he's always wanted to be in Dallas, and I think a lot of fans would love to see him here, I've certainly always maintained he would upgrade this defense. He'd be an amazing addition to the secondary. I think he's just in a space right now that perhaps does not make sense for the Cowboys to add him.

Not only that, it becomes, he's got to go through testing protocols. He's missed training camp. He hasn't had an opportunity to gel with the system. And then I don't even know if he's going to certainly miss the blue and white scrimmage game if they signed him this week. I don't know. No. And I think that wherever Earl Thomas lands up, you know, we saw this a little bit with, and not to compare all of these people to each other at all. But, you know, we see a little bit that, you know, Antonio Brown in Pittsburgh was, you know, It was a delicate balance. And as soon as he left what they had developed in terms of structure over there,

there were issues elsewhere. And, and you know, you see that as much as people thought Terrell Owens was loud, a friend of the show here, Terrell Owens, as much as people thought he was loud in San Francisco and stuff, there were bigger chemistry problems they thought they saw after he left San Francisco.

And it feels like I think that there are certain dynamic personalities or certain personality types in the NFL that they fit only within certain structures. They're not for everybody. They're not, you know, cookie cutter and can go into any locker room. it's not one size fits all. There's special circumstances and locker room chemistry where you can plug in an Earl Thomas

or an Antonio Brown or something like that. And so I think for the Cowby, he was late to practice in a condensed camp because he had to wash his car. I'm not defending anything. And I got to be honest, there's a part of me that wonders. This is my conspiracy theory take.

We've seen a lot of players do this. We're reversing roles today. We saw it in Jackson. We saw it in. Jacksonville a little bit, Jalen Ramsey, you know, you provoke a team enough. They trade, or you get out of your contract. Now, in this situation, he's going to be able to file a grievance. Was the conduct detrimental enough for them to not pay him?

It's certainly a very risky play if you want to get out of a contract and you're hoping Dallas will still pick you up. Sure. And I think Dallas. But it just feels like if you, if you, it's almost like you're deliberately poking the bear is what it felt like. And so again, that's my conspiracy theory. I don't know that for a fact,

but it certainly feels like you're poking the bear to get out of the deal. I think the thing that we can both agree on is the question for the Cowboys won't be the tape. You know, I mean, he's certainly probably not quite the same player he was when he was, you know, five consecutive Pro Bowls in Seattle. But I do think the bigger question for Dallas,

what they would probably have to weigh is A, the financials like you mentioned. But B, even if the financials were right would be, what does this do chemistry-wise? Especially a team that seemed to have chemistry issues last year. That seemed to be the main thing that held them back. They need to look at it and go, okay, is this a situation where,

and again, not to compare who they are off the field, but is this a situation where we're injecting a Greg Hardy into the locker room, where there's talent there and it fits something that we really need, but this is going to really screw with some chemistry, or this is not going to be a locker fit. So I think the question for the Cowboys is not, is he talented enough to start here? Is he talented enough for us to pay the money that it's going to cost? It's more, is this going to ruin things on a broader level than just, you know, the safety spot?

Will he have a negative impact? And it feels like this group is really jelling in a short amount of time. I mean, this is one of the best locker rooms that I've been around. And you and I have talked about it sort of started with, uh, Dack Prescott's rookie year. The guys were so young. came in, they galvanized together. And the fact they all really bought in to this idea of quarantining at the hotel. My question right now is, would Oral do that? He can't even show up to practice on time because getting his car wash is more important to him. He's not learning the

defense, which is infuriating his teammates who are again saying like, look, man, we've got a short training camp. It's condensed. We need you to be locked in. Can you trust Oral at this point? That's what I'd be thinking if I was the Cowboys right now and some of these players. Yes, you want the best players available. Yes, you want a guy like Earl Thomas. But is he the Earl Thomas that everyone is hoping they're going to get? Or is he this Earl Thomas that certainly didn't pan out for the Ravens the way they thought it would? And think how much money they spent on the possibility of him being the Earl they thought he would and he wasn't.

Yeah. And I mean, like we say, there's varying degrees. of reviews on him. You take a John Harbaugh type who knows what it takes to win a Super Bowl has done that and there's a lot of strong leaders there and they seem to kind of be all together and saying we want Earl gone.

But then you look at other guys who came out Deshawn Watson and Richard Sherman and others who afterwards who said, I've never known Earl to be anything other than great and I love Earl and I do anything to play with him. But to be fair, well, okay, Sherman played with it, but do you fair? DeShan hasn't. No. And to be fair, also what people may not realize is Deshawn and Earl

share an agent. And so that's all also probably partly at play. But there is, Deshawn would know Earl because of that and would have some first-hand experience. But I think that's the thing. I think there's going to be varying reports about him. And that would just be the thing that Dallas would have to evaluate is, do we trust that he'd be a good fit here? Does he want to be a cowboy bad enough that maybe we can work through some other issues or things like that? But I mean, I think that if he wanted to be a cowboy bad enough, Bobby, he would have taken more of a hometown discount.

Sure. But now, sure. feel on the table a couple of years ago. Now he's $18 million richer though, so maybe he feels like I can sacrifice a couple dollars. I'm talking about when he went to the Ravens. I'm not talking about when the Cowboys offered up a trade. But to me, you're either motivated by money or location. If you want, like, for instance, I love the NFL network.

I'm probably going to give them a discount to stay with them as opposed to going somewhere else. He didn't do that. He didn't want to stay somewhere, go somewhere bad enough that he took a discount. But now that he's gotten that money, now that he got the signing bonus and the one-year contract, maybe he says, okay, I can afford to take a little bit of a discount because I've gotten a nice chunk of cash already from those stuff. And it would be a brilliantly finessed move to go get your money somewhere else, win your grievance, go to the team that you wanted to go to all along and then still get paid somewhere else. It is.

It would be a power move. I would have a lot of respect for it. I mean, it's, you know, you got it in terms of I have respect for it. I got to know in terms of I got to respect the the plotting. I have an appreciation for the grand scheme. I don't think it's quite... I think I'm a little biased just because I'm so over it. And that's the thing.

I don't think it's quite, I don't think this situation is quite to that level. I think what you had was I think he was happy to be in Baltimore. He seemed very happy to be there last year. I think things have just fallen apart. And we've heard a lot of things about issues with Earl Thomas. Some of it, you know, the issue with the police being called to his home that was reported over the off season. and some of these other issues. And so I feel like he's got some things

that he needs to work on personally. And so I, as a Texas alumna and a massive fan of Earl Thomas as a player, I would love to see all of that happen for him. I just covering this team. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing huge. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye They said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite there. Careers, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that

we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Knowing some of these guys in this locker room, I just don't know if he makes the most sense right now. Now, if you had asked me a couple of years ago, throw the money at him. Of course, make it happen. Cowboys, make it rain.

I think right now you've got to be really, really careful with this. Well, we'll drop the Earl Thomas discussion since I know you're tired of it. But we got two great guests today, Brandon Tucker. I'm tired of it. I'm going to be talking about this for the next week or so, Bobby. Brandon Tucker from Trench Warfare Training, who we'll get to here later. And then we'll kick off today with former Cowboys quarterback. Coach John Kitna.

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And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten has securril.

cured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff.

Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitsa and the Ad Council. Joining us now is former NFL quarterback, former Dallas Cowboys quarterback's coach and current head coach and athletic coordinator at Burleson High School, John Kittina. Coach Kittna, how are you? I'm doing really well. Thanks.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining us here. So first question for you. I know everybody knows you're over there now at Burleson. And you guys have currently on the schedule an opener on September 11th against Azel. Are you guys preparing as if that game's going to be played? how optimistic are you about the season? And I guess what kind of challenges are you getting thrown your way in this COVID era

with your first year coaching there at Burleson? Yeah, well, first of all, with the schedule, it's changed. I mean, I think we've had four different schedules already. So, you know, the UIO pushed back really the start date for 5A and 6A, pushed us back to try to help the bigger ISDs, Houston, Dallas and stuff. to get through some of the spikes that they were seeing in the summertime. So we won't actually start our season until start our first game. It won't until until September 24th.

But we're actually, that's a Thursday. We're playing our crosstown rival. I think it was like nine years ago. They split the high schools here. And Berluson Centennial, Berluson High School. So we're playing a Matt Cowboy Stadium on the 24th of September. So our kids are pretty excited about that. We haven't got to start actual football prices with, you know,

helmets and tackling dummies and stuff like that yet. But we've been working pretty hard. And, you know, everything has been, obviously everybody's life has been disrupted by this. And I think it's been a pretty cool thing, to be honest, because I feel like, you know, I think it's given a lot of people a better perspective of what's really important. And I think it's, I think there's been things that we've gotten better at.

I don't think that this is good for everybody. That's not what I'm saying. But, you know, I believe in, you know, life is how you respond to the events to happen to you. And for us, that's kind of what we've been plowing through. You know, with the COVID shutdown, we got to start up our workouts, June 8th. That day, one of our players, one of our most beloved players, one of our best players, that night was killed in a car accident.

and that really rocked our community in a lot of ways, but it also drew us a lot closer as well. And so we've gone through a lot of stuff, but our kids have been grinding away at it and really getting after it, you know, last 10 weeks or so. And then we start up school next week. So things are going pretty well.

Well, and I know a lot of people know that you, before you got, you know, working with the Cowboys and before this job at Burleson, that you had done high school coaching before. and one of the guys I'm just curious about, and I'm sure you've been asked about a lot, is Jalen Rager, who I know you coached at Waxahatchee, first round pick of the Eagles.

How worried should Cowboys fans be about him being in the division the next few years? He's a really good football player from the day. First day, I saw him. I'll never forget it. You know, we loaded up our RV and traveled down here. And I think I was there for two days. And I, you know, my son organized a throwing. session and me and a couple of coaches were just sitting there watching from the stands.

And we saw Jalen run routes. At that time, he was, you know, middle of his sophomore year. And there was just stuff that he did that is hard to find people even in the NFL that do it in terms of, you know, his detail on running routes and how he got his shoulders over his toes and was able to get in and out of his brakes. And he caught everything with his hands. And so, you know, immediately that day, I was like, man, we have something special here. And so he's a good football player.

He's going to, he's going to, you know, I really believe he's going to have one of those careers that is, you know, will push him towards being an elite football player for a long time. So he's in a right, he's in the right place out there in Philly. Carson going into us fifth year, I believe. And, you know, that staff does a great job of using all the strengths that people have. And the thing about him is a lot of people feel like he, He's probably just a slot receiver. That's not true.

He can play any one of the positions. You know, one of the things that he, I know, took personal offense to, I guess, a little bit from some of the draft community was they were talking about his hands. That, you know, he doesn't necessarily have consistent hands, but it doesn't seem like you buy into that. Yeah, you know, the draft and all that process is, that's a tough process because really they're looking for reasons,

looking for why you shouldn't be the guy, as opposed to he has gray hands. I don't ever remember him in high school dropping balls. I mean, we go weeks without a ball hitting the ground in practice and game. You know, he's just, he's an amazing football player. His hands are not an issue. His speed is not an issue. His competitiveness is not an issue. There's zero issue with the kid.

What was it like working with Dak Prescott? What stood out about him in areas that you thought, not only that he improved on, but that he really developed under your guidance there with the Cowboys? I think the thing that stood, what was it like? I think that's your first question. What was it like working with that? When I got down to the Pro Bowl last year,

Jason said, come down here and hang out with us. And I got to talking to the coaches that were on staff, you know, every coach to a man. like you'll never be around somebody like that, that Prescott is what they kept saying. And it was like almost too good to be true. And, and then from the time that I met him until, you know, even today and when we text and stuff,

he's just constantly looking for how he can improve at everything, not just football, leadership, you know, how he takes care of his body, you know, his own life, just everything about him is just I said this I've said this many times I just there's a lot of people that do great and do well there's very few people that are constantly trying to improve and that's who he is he's just always is you know what's the next thing how can I get better what can I do do to get better so as a coach as a coach that's challenging because you don't just just get the roll the ball out there and, okay, we're going to go do our everyday drills.

Nah, there has to be a purpose behind it. He's going to challenge you on it. And then coaching him, you know, there would be times, you know, I'm grading the film on Monday. And, you know, we lost a game or whatever. And I'm saying, man, you played really good. And he, you know, I send him the grades or whatever. We talk about him. He's like, you know, I appreciate how you're grading me, but I don't think you're graved me hard enough. And that's just who he is. And so it was a ton of fun. I learned a lot.

And, you know, he just, I think that's who he is. He's going to be one of the best to play the game for a long time. Do you understand then the criticism about his play, having worked with him and been in the quarterback room with him? And, you know, to your point, this is a guy that continues to want to improve. Do you understand some of the criticism that's out there about him, some people that still just don't feel like he is the guy for Dallas? You're the Dallas Cowboys quarterback.

And we talked about that a lot in our room in the offseason last year. It's just, it's part of the deal. When you're a Dallas Cowboy quarterback, you don't win championships. It's not good enough, period. And that's just it. And it's a great, it's the ultimate team game. But, you know, I think DAC is so comfortable on his own skin. He's so grounded with the people that he has around him that that stuff

doesn't face him. He knows nobody's harder on him than him. But the reality is it's tough to play in this league as well as he's played for the last four years. That's hard to do. And he continues to do it. It continues to rise. And so, you know, the criticism, there's just certain people. It's never going to be good enough. And there's certain people that maybe don't think he's authentic. I don't know. That's on them, though. It's too bad, you know, that they feel that way about him. But, you know, that's the part of being a Dallas Cowboy quarterback is championships or you're not good enough. You know, Coach Kit, and I know you're relatively new to the Twitter scene, which you guys can follow him on Twitter at Coach J. Kit. But Twitter is really where that, kind of what Jane's referencing there, that a little bit of nastiness about, you know,

DAC's not good enough really comes from. And I, you know, I try to champion the DAC brigade on there. And you can see over my shoulder here, I'm naming my next child, Luca Prescott Belt. And so that's after DAC and Luca there. But the most common one is you really can't point to anything statistically about him anymore. You can't point to things about his career achievements that you can say he falls short. And there's all this objective evidence now that runs counter to the argument that Dak Prescott's not a franchise quarterback or one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

So generally where everyone falls down now is, well, my eyes tell me. He doesn't pass the eye test. He doesn't do this or that. And it's funny because it's usually coming from non-professionals. But I'm curious for somebody like you who quarterbacked in this league for 17 years, coached at this level and has seen him up close. And you talk about grading his film. what do your eyes tell you about

Dak Prescott and what do you think about those types of criticisms that oh, Dak just, you know, he fails the eye test. Well, you know, I don't think you get to be in the NFL for 16 years like I was. If you allow the opinions of people that are irrelevant, that aren't in the locker rooms,

that aren't watching the film, that don't understand, you know, how plays are constructed and all that stuff. if you let that stuff sway you, then you won't last very long. And so I'm certainly not going to allow people on Twitter that, you know, have 35 followers to affect my opinion of what I see day in and day out,

saw a day in a day out with him. And so, you know, the eye test, he passes it all. You know, he's played four years. He hasn't missed a game because of injury. He plays injured. He plays hurt. He doesn't miss workouts. He's at everything.

He stands up in front of the media. win, lose, or draw. He never throws his teammates under the bus. He coaches and he looks and criticizes himself harder than anybody. He stands up in front of the team, talks to the team. He carries the message of the head coach and the program, and he doesn't do anything to embarrass the organization. Everything about him.

He checks every single box, except he doesn't want a championship. They're hard to come by. you know, let's be realistic about it. They're hard to come by. And so, you know, but he is going to win him. And he is going to be one of the best ones to play this game for a long time because his quest to improve is just greater than anything I've ever seen. John, I am curious about what the final days of the Jason Garrett era

look like for a lot of his coaching staff. I know there were plenty of the coaches that were sort of left in the dark. Were you among those that was at the building when Jason Garrett was showing up day in and day out with the binder underneath his arm, I was told, and doing the player evaluations and acting as if? Yeah, I mean, you're hired to do a job. You're hired to do a job. And until they tell you you're no longer doing that job, your job is a show to work. And they don't owe you anything. They don't owe you a conversation.

they don't owe you, you know, to tell you what their thought process is or how they're, that's not part of it. It's just part of the deal. It's professional sports. This isn't, you know, high school. This isn't the YMCA. It's just part of the deal. It's what you sign up for.

And Jason was very proud of the work that he did in, you know, the 10 plus years that he was here in Dallas, both as a coordinator and a head coach. and, you know, he treated his assistants so well that we loved him. And, and, you know, I don't think any guy would have a problem saying that. And so, you know, but it's part of the deal. You know, when you hire a new head coach, he's going to want to bring his own people. It is what it is. But at the same time, until that decision is made, you show up and do work.

And I don't see that there's any problem with that. And we all had work to do. Were you disappointed that you weren't asked? back? Yeah, I was disappointed because I wanted to continue working there. I like working for the Cowboys organization. I love the Jones family. I love the people that work inside that building. And most importantly, and I can, I just envision myself, you know, being Dax quarterback coach for a long time. I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the football side. I enjoyed the personal side. Everything about it. I enjoy the other guys in that quarterback room. But I also know, again,

There's nothing personal about it. You know, you just, when you come in, you're going to want, I mean, I remember sitting talking with Jerry Jones when I played. I used to just, on Saturdays he'd come up for walkthroughs, and I wasn't playing, I was the backup or whatever, and I would just sit and talk with him on a sideline while we're watching a walkthrough. And he used to say, John, if you ever get a chance to take over an organization or, you know, do something your own way, he said,

start from scratch. Don't hold people over, you know, because they're going to want to do things the way they've always done it. And so when a new head coach comes in, he's going to change the staff. That's part of it. And so there's no hard feelings. Disappointed? Yeah, because I like working for the Cowboys, and I thought we did a good thing. And, you know, I thought, you know, we made some really good strides with Dak and all that stuff.

But I totally get it. One of the things that Dak himself talked about during the season was, he taught, you know, something that DAC even owned up to was something that was potentially lacking, you could say, heading into last season for him was he needed to work on some of his foot mechanics and work on his footwork. I remember we had started hearing some buzz from people that it looked really improved heading into training camp. And so I was watching the first game, uh, in preseason and trying to see as a novice. Is there anything super obvious that I can see that's different? And one of the things I noticed was he was kind of, he used to kind of swing his back leg out,

little bit when he'd throw and that it seemed like he was doing this more rotating up on the back foot a little bit. And I asked around a little bit about it. And I don't know if this is the term you used for it, but somebody said that it's kind of referred to as squashing the bug that you kind of step down and turn up on that toe. And that's one of the coaching points to really drive that home. Can you talk to us about what you were doing with his footwork and some of the things that you guys were, some of the touch points that you thought were important for him and where you think get improved for him last year? Well, I think first of all,

as his quarterback coach for less than a year, he's been a work in progress. He's been doing stuff with the guys that he hires to be his personal quarterback coaches. So there's been this progression that he was on. I was part of really coming in and just, you know, things we worked on were negligible to the naked eye, stuff that you wouldn't really notice.

It was a six-inch step here or a six-inch step there and really just trying to get yourself in the best position to be in line with the throw that you're going to make. And really kind of, we used to talk about playing from the left foot to the right foot of the center, kind of staying in that little alley, that little lane right there. And so that's really the stuff that we talked about and that we did.

But, you know, really a lot of it, a lot of it was just helping him, helping him and the other quarterbacks just understand the rhythm of place. Okay, because a lot of these guys, they don't play under center growing up anymore. They playing the gun. And so you can lose the rhythm of place. And so sometimes you're, maybe you're running a route that's at 18 yards. But you take the same drop in the shotgun that you take, that you would take with a route that's at 12 yards.

Well, when you go to look at that route, is it open? Because I'm at the top of my drop, he's still running his wrong. route so you might move on. So it was just really about kind of understanding the rhythm of the plays and how they all match up and how, and there's 10 or 12 different drops you're going to take in the shotgun and how all those match up. So those were things we worked on. It wouldn't be anything that would be, I think that you would say, oh man, that was a huge change. I don't think that was it. He's been a work in progress. He continues to be, as I said. I don't think he's ever going going to be a guy. I go, okay, I got it. I can get rid of John Beck. I don't need him anymore.

you don't need to hire a quarterback coach because I got it all. He's never going to be that guy. I always enjoy Tales from the Vault. We had Tony Casillas on a couple of podcasts ago, and he was telling us some fun stories about his teammate Michael Irvin. I'm curious, do you have any fun stories about Jason Garrett? About Jason? Yeah.

You know what's interesting? So Jason would always get on the plane. I got the witness this year, being. a coach. And I sat right behind him on the plane. Jason would always be on the plane 30 minutes before we're going to take off. And he'd sit down and say hello to everyone, just cordial, nice. But in that 30 minutes, he'd pull out the New York Times crossword puzzle and that thing would be done before our wheels took off the ground. Now, see, that's interesting. It's unbelievable, is what it is to me. I mean, he just would be blank and he plowed through that thing. You say hi,

to everybody that came by that's working on the plane, the coaches, whatever, touching base, hey, we need to talk about this. And he hammer this New York Times crossword puzzle less than 30 minutes. It was fascinating. Isn't it interesting? I feel like, unfortunately,

because people that don't get to know Jason, they don't know there's this whole other side of him. And as much as I know Bobby's sort of been the president of the DAC fan club, I feel like I sort of took up the post of president of the Jason Garrett fan club, because I don't think people, truly understood him. And to your point, it's kind of like being a quarterback in Dallas, unless you win championships, you're not considered anything, even though he only had one losing season in Dallas. Did you appreciate the process that came with him as a coach?

Here's how much I appreciate it. Since I've, you know, retired and started coaching myself, Jason has been my biggest coaching mentor. And he and I would spend hours on the phone. we would text a lot. He would oftentimes, you know, talk to me in the offseason about kind of, you know, the culture building they were doing and how they were building the program. And he would send me, you know, little things, practice plans and stuff that I could work from. And he's just always been a great mentor. I mean, and people ask me all the time, who do you think was the best head coach you played for?

And I don't pause. Jason Garrett, I think is it. I mean, it's hard to do what he did. Really, really hard to do he did. But again, you're Dallas Cowboys. It's about championships. And, you know, we didn't win him here while he's here. But to take over as an interim coach and to do what he did,

the way that he stepped in front of that team and the things that he spoke with conviction about, that's really hard to do. And I think, you know, I think the voices are loud that thought he did a terrible job or the voices are loud. I think Dak isn't the right quarterback. back, okay? But, you know, just because you're loud doesn't mean you're right. I know that we've seen some reports out there that DAC had gotten in a couple workouts with you this offseason.

You know, we've talked to him a couple times here at camp already. He seems in good spirits. But a lot of people were sitting here thinking like, oh, you know, Dak, you know, how is he handling this whole contract thing? Is it becoming a distraction? Did he seem just kind of like, you know, normal, Dak to you, normal, you know, student of the game? am ready to plow through this off season and not as much focused on what was going on off the field? I think that's one of his greatest strengths and traits is he does not let things that he can't control affect him ever, ever. He just doesn't. He's so focused on what he has to do for himself

and what his job is that he just doesn't, it doesn't phase him. And the contract, those things, that's the business side of football. But at the end of the day, he's got to go play. and he's a Dallas cowboy through and through. He loves the organization. So I'm not going to speak for him, but the time that I got to spend with him, whether it's playing golf or, you know, hanging out and playing cars or, you know,

working on some quarterback stuff, you know, he's just laser focused. What did those workouts, does workouts look like, John? Well, a lot of it, I mean, part of it, they were really just, you know, me getting my sons around him. He just,

he was so nice to my sons all last year, whether it was my son in college or the two that I got still at home. He was just always working with them. And he's actually, my youngest one is built a little like Dak. So he taught him his, you know, his warm-up routine and all this stuff.

So, you know, if he ever doesn't do his warm-up routine when he goes out to throw or goes to practice, I call Dak immediately on FaceTime. And he's not doing his work. And, you know, so then he does it. and stuff like that. So, you know, it's just, you know,

again, DAC has people that, that have been working with them for a long time, but we just get together every now and then and work on different stuff. But, you know, obviously not now, but we did in offseason just because we were up near each other and COVID had us all a little bored.

Okay, before Bobby Jepson here, I do have to ask you since you brought up warm-up routine, you know, Drew Brees does something very similar. But for the fans that watched it as it went viral, what's up with the hip thrust and that, that very particular warmup that both he and Drew Breeze both do very methodically and there is such an attention to it pregame. Yeah.

If you watch baseball players, hitters, you watch the good ones or you watch golfers. When you watch them, it's all about the hip rotation. The power is generated within the hips. And that's really what that routine is about. And, you know, so a lot of. of people will do it by striding and doing that stuff but or when they you know when you're in the pocket and you're getting ready to throw they'll crow hop and one foot will come into contact with the other one and that's you lose power doing that so that's the thing that they you know that he's been

you know he's worked on for years is to generate the power through the hips and in the core is that is that more that sort of thing is that uh exercise more about loosening up before game is it almost like a stretch, or is it more about muscle memory and trying to, you know, develop that feeling? That's a DAC question, but, you know, I think it's both. It's both in. So you've mentioned here, you know, the, what kind of a player deck is from a mental aspect. And I think that people have heard the Cowboys, players, and coaches and everybody else rave about that for a long time, about what he's got between the. ears. And, you know, for some people who look at that and wonder like, okay, but I mean, you know,

what does that really, you know, matter at quarterback? How just in your own word and in your own words, the way you would describe that, how important is that mental makeup of not just being a quarterback, but having to be a quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys? That's one of the most essential traits that a quarterback's going to have to have is that mental makeup, that mental toughness, the ability to be resilient, the ability to, you know, focus and do the task at hand and not get caught up in, you know, the noise that's outside of you or even the last play. It's really about how do you focus and do your job on every single play. And like I said, you know, there was times last year that I'm like, man,

that was a really tough game that he had. Hey, we're going to take it easy. And he, I mean, he would almost cuss me out. Like, what, I don't know. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care where Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and news. entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

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Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. What that means. We're not taking it easy. We're going to do this. Or when he was out with the AC joint and he couldn't throw, he'd still come out and get his footwork in. And he'd still be super engaged in the meetings. I mean, legitimately probably shouldn't have, you know,

had enough of an injury that you probably shouldn't have played in a couple of games. He was never even a thought. And that's just the type of player he is. So just wrapping up here, I'm curious, We've talked about how you've been at the high school level, and you know, you've obviously had this experience working with the Cowboys, not to, you know, look too far into the future, discount what you're trying to do now,

but what's your outlook look like for your career? Do you think high school is where you're going to stay at, or do you have the feeling that one day you'd like to go back to coaching the professional level or perhaps even college? Yeah, no, I enjoy what I'm doing. And I really feel like this is my calling. And the cowboy thing, that was a situation where I really felt like I could be helpful. And it's not a dream of mine.

It's not something I have to turn down necessarily. But I like what I'm doing. I plan on being here a long time in Burleson. It's always been my wife and I. That's what we feel like we're called to do is to pour into the youth and train young men to be real men. and I'd love nothing more than to leave a legacy of, you know, leadership here and being real men coming out of Burleson, Texas,

and hopefully win at a high clip too, but that's not the ultimate goal for us. The ultimate goal is training character and producing young men that their parents and their families can be proud of, their community can be proud of, their school can be proud of, and so, you know, had opportunities to stay in the NFL, you know, this past year, but it just wasn't really what I, you know, felt like the Lord was leading us to do.

I like what I'm doing. I got a great athletic director. My principal is amazing. You know, our superintendent is awesome. And we're in a growing district. And I couldn't be more happy. And this is exactly where I think God has us. Well, Coach, the kids are lucky to have you.

And I think anyone listening to this interview sees why a guy like that gravitated towards you. We certainly miss you this year, but we, of course, wish you the best of luck. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values.

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Joining us now is Brandon Tucker. Brandon is the founder of Trench Warfare Training and he is also the Combine and Pro Day trainer for defensive linemen at Exos in Dallas. Brandon trains a number of NFL defensive linemen and is a skills teacher of sorts. Brandon, you can follow him on Twitter

at TWF training. Tuck, how's it going, man? Pretty good. How are you, Bob? I'm getting by. I'm excited to talk to you here. I know we were all interested, as Jane's been talking about in her reports, and as everybody's been buzzing about, everybody wants to know about Alden Smith. And what a lot of people don't know necessarily is that before he was reinstated, before he was in the building and as he was working back,

but was still in the Dallas area that you got to working with him. I know he was asked about it recently by Todd Archer and had good things to say. So I guess for all the fans listening and wanting to know, give us the lowdown on Alden Smith and what your impressions have been of him while you guys have worked out this offseason. So I got him late March, early April. His agent, Ron Slavin, sent him to me to get him reaccomated to play a football again. And we worked out every day, Monday through Friday, for, oh, about two and a half months.

About two and a half months we were going. And so just wanted to get his feedback underneath. So when you say you worked out five days a week for a couple of months, it seems like he took a really professional approach to wanting to get back in shape. What kind of shape was in when you got him and what did he look like when you were done? So he was in decent shape and he approached everything like a professional. He was in decent shape. You know, he had been training prior to getting to me,

but he was more in kind of like marathon shape, boxing shape, versus being in football shape. So he was in, he was in shape. He just wasn't in the type of conditioning that you need to play 60, 70 plays a game. What was it that stood out about him? We talked about this a little bit last week on NFL Network, but you said it had something to do with his hands. Yeah.

So I made the mistake of standing in front of him during the drill. And he delivered a blow like he's supposed to. And I foolishly did not have a pad out in front of me. And so he got to my chest and I had to take a moment. It was like being hit by a battering ram or a tank. It was ridiculous. It was just absolutely ridiculous. Wow.

What is it about? I mean, I know you and I have talked about this before even off the year, that a lot of times guys, entering the league and where there's probably the most lacking among defensive linemen in the NFL is how to use their hands, that they're not necessarily adept at that. I know that's not the case really from what you've said about Alden. What is it about him that makes him so special in the way he uses his hands and that sort of benefit? So with Alden, first of all I don't think he's a human being.

I think he might be from planet football. The way that he's able to do things, the power that he possesses, he's just super, super special as it relates to that. But his football like he was very, very high. He understands where to put his hands and when to put him there. I mean, he's just phenomenal from that respect. I mean, he just, he knows how to play football. That's why he was successful as he was before he took his sabbatical.

It's amazing because the narratives out there about football players. It's amazing how pervasive they can be without a lot of people actually contacting the player, getting to know them. And that's why I love that we have these wealth of contacts in Dallas. You can sort of get a sense of them. But were you surprised when you got him hearing some of the narratives out there about where he was at just mentally? Yes. You know, I had several people talk to me about him prior to me to me getting him. And once I had a chance to visit with him and meet him, he was nothing like what was told to me prior to me getting.

He's a super caring guy, very, very gracious with his time, very intellectual. You know, he would even stay late after I worked with him and jump in with my high school and police training group. At that time, you know, we were supposed to be locked down. and I had a bunch of kids home from spring break at university level who couldn't go back so they were training and I mean he'd come out and work with them and visit with them I mean he was he was just impressed totally opposite of what you've heard a lot about him in the media I know that you've gotten some work in before with DeMarcus Lawrence and that's a guy that you know a little bit what kind of parallels are there would you say that those are two similar guys in terms of, because everybody knows to Marcus Lawrence's football IQ and what an animal he has. Are those two similar like guys in the way they approach the game? I would say from a football IQ standpoint, yes. You know, both of them are extremely hard workers, but two totally different personalities.

It's like yin and yang. I think they're getting along so well just because they both want to be great. and so when you have guys that that have that mindset I mean everything else kind of gets put to the side but two totally different personalities between Tank and Floyd all right well elaborate how are they so different well I mean

when you say elaborate I mean without without being giving up too much intimate detail you you're talking about you know you know tank who does a lot of stuff behind the scenes, doesn't really like a bunch of fanfare.

I mean, you know, you're talking about a guy that goes and spends time at the First Gold Boys and Girls Club. He has tremendous community. He's active in the community. Obviously, Floyd just got here, but hell, he's not as laid back. He's not as, he's not as reserved.

You know, he, he likes to enjoy himself. Whether it's, whether it's, you know, eating that hole in the walls all over the Metroplex or just, you know, sitting back listening to weird genres of music, man. He's just, they're totally different. They're totally different. And plus thanks a family, man. He's got a family. You know, Alden, you know, he's still, you know, he's still, you know, he's not, he's not, he's not, he does not have wife and children.

So just two totally different personalities for sure. All right. The other guy on this defensive line that I think a lot of people have a lot of questions about is Tristan Hill. There are a lot of people trying to draw comparisons between him and Taco Charlton, which a lot of people around here, Bobby, consider it a bus. What separates Tristan from the Taco narrative? And why are we now hearing reports that Tristan has done this 360 all of a sudden in the offseason and is dazzling this new coaching staff? Is that just coach? playing good cop all of a sudden or are you really seeing that from him? Because, to be fair, as teammates have noticed it. Yeah. Potentially, it could be that. I think Tristan last year, kind of like Taco, came into a very, very different type of room. And so I think he had some expectations.

those expectations weren't there. And, you know, the room dictates a lot. You know, if you have guys in that room that you don't necessarily get along with, it's going to work every day with someone you don't like. And so, you know, for a young guy, 21 years old, you know, still learning how to be a professional, you know, you can develop rabbit ears. I think Taco did that as well. But, you know, with the new staff and the new coach, Tristan,

approached it as a new beginning, man, a new opportunity. And he's taking advantage of it. He came out of a bad situation his last year in college. So his last two years of football, you know, just haven't been kind to him. And then all of a sudden, you know, you got a new head coach and a new system and everyone has a, just hit their reset button. and he's really, really taking advantage of that opportunity doing all the right thing. And we've heard some discussion out there that Tristan has, you know,

maybe has taken some responsibility himself into how things went last year that maybe it's not so much. Oh, I was a victim that maybe he recognizes his own part in some of the struggles he had last year. Is that sort of what you've seen in your work with him that he owns up to, you know, I need to do some things different this year? Absolutely. That was one of the things that we talked about. He and I was accountability, and he was 100% accountable, and he owned a lot of what happened last year.

And I mean, we talked about it in detail. You know, he felt like he was their first round picks and they didn't have one. And he thought things were going to be different once he got there. And it weren't. And so, you know, a lot of the things, a lot of the things, a lot of the things that happened, you know, he owned, which is, you know, once you start to do things like that, it shows your growth and maturity, and he's just not going to make those

mistakes again. He's not going to make the same mistakes again. And I think he's dedicated himself this, this all season, to being a better, to being a better football player. And I think it's, I think it's, I think it's showing, I think it's evident to people now that, you know, he's going to live up to the, to the, to the pig, he's picked in the second round. So he's going to make some believers out of people this year. Fundamentally, where have you seen him make changes to his game? Great question. I think because he's so strong and powerful and explosive,

you know, he can bend and do things that, you know, most guys, his size aren't able to do. So from a fundamental standpoint, just being in great condition was huge for him this year. you know, being able to do whatever is ass of him at 100%. It's what we talked about a lot, too. So other than that, man, you know, it was just him learning, him learning what they're trying to teach him. And it's a short curve with no OTA. So he's staying late.

You know, he's doing everything he can to make sure he stays on top of the curve. We know how difficult it can be for defensive linemen in their rookie year. I know that another guy that you've gotten to work with is Neville Gallimore. Talk about just some of his traits and also what you think might be the biggest challenges for him in his learning curve heading into his rookie season. Neville is a compact, strong, explosive defensive lineman. You know, the scheme that he played in at OU allow him a lot of time to just run through gaps. and so if he was here in Marinelli's system,

he would have looked just like a youthful, healthy Malik Collins. With the type of system that they're running now, he's got to learn to use his hands a lot better and striking at the point of attack, which is completely different than what he's done the last four years at OU. with him being, you know, a Canadian player, you know, born in Canada and in his formative years there, football, the brand of football is a little bit different. So we're, he's being asked

to do some things that he's not accustomed to doing. And once, once he gets that, he'll be just fine. You know, normally all those things would have been taken care of in OTAs, you know, but without us having them this year, you know, it's, it's been a little bit challenging. And then, and then secondly, just adjusting to the physical. and the pace of the game in the NFL versus Big 12, right? So it's just, it's a huge, it's a huge transition. I think he's in a great spot where they can afford to bring him along at a little bit of a slower pace than knowing what you would have a guy in his situation because of the

depth on the interior of the line before McCoy got hurt. That was going to be my next question. It might be a little unfair to you because you haven't worked with these guys. since they've been at camp and actually part of the install. But given the Gerald McCoy News, who do you see having the bigger edge to be that guy in the interior? Tyrone Crawford. You know, Ty is first is enough.

I mean, he's been playing a little bit of nose guard. But, I mean, I expect for Ty to fill in most immediately. obviously Woods and Poe played the same position. And so the only other guys that you have on the team right now are your babies in that spot. You know, the two young fellas and Tristan and Neville. So immediately it would be tie, I would expect. If they had to start a game tomorrow, I'd put money that it'd be tie in there

at the three technique. Do you work with Tyrone Crawford at all? I have not. I have not. Yeah. I was going to say fans that aren't familiar with Tyrone, I feel like he was the missing link last year in that defensive room. I don't know if you talked to a lot of guys about it,

but when he got hurt, I felt like his leadership was really, really, they missed him. That's a guy that I always enjoyed seeing David Irving running his mouth in the locker room and Tyrone coming over there and being like, why are you talking to the media? Of course, it drove us crazy. It's like, oh, David's spilling all the tea, but you kind of need that sort of leader, keeping the young guys accountable. So I'm glad he's back. I think Tristan Hill and Neville will benefit from him being back in the room.

He's the one that got DeMarcus Lawrence to start riding his bike and get his weight down. They would ride their bikes every day to and from the facility. Right. Yeah, they were riding their bikes to exos. I'd look up and there'd be two mountain bikes. Who's riding their bike up here? and it was yeah,

they rolled those bikes everywhere. That's a hike. How far is it from their house on the bike? You're talking about four or five miles. Yeah. Man. Yeah. That's a lot for large men on a mountain bike.

For sure, riding down the streets of Friscoe. It was crazy. They need to get that electric bike. I guess last thing for you here, because I know you've got a workout group you got to get with. Everybody's gone.

We're good. When you live, look at you referencing the different things they're teaching now talking about Tom Sula versus Rod Merrnelli. I guess from your perspective is that what you would say is going to be the biggest difference for fans who watch the defensive line this year? Is it more finesse from a Marinelli scheme versus power and a lot of push pull from a Tom Sula scheme? Yeah, you're you're going to see you're going to see and don't get me wrong. I think that Rod and Big Cat did a really good job.

I mean, the defensive line was always, you know, very, very, very well coached with the Cowboys under Coach Garrett. You're just going to see a different type of play this year because you're not going to have guys jetting up the field like they did all the time. You're going to see some of that, some of that odd surface. you'll see, you know, tanks standing up, you'll see Floyd standing up. And so, you know, that just creates a nightmare scenario for office of coordinators when you have those type of players either roaring off the edges or dropping back in coverage.

So the schemes are totally, it's like night and day, and they have the personnel to play what they're wanting to and being able to mix things up like they're going to this year. we let you go for fans that want a reference point, what tape should they pop in if they want to, if they want a visual of what this defensive line is going to look like? Easy. Go back to Alden Smith second year in the league and look at that defense play football. They got after people big time. And you're, you, they have, they have the second coming of that right now. they have the second coming of that. They're going to go.

The San Francisco's, what did he come out? 2011. 11, 11, yeah. 11. Yeah, 11. So that, go look at 13 film. Okay. 12 and 13 when he was in San Francisco.

And that's a lot of, you're going to see a lot of that this year. Always a wealth of information. Thank you so much for coming on here. We only get so much time with these new coaches to sort of get an assessment. So I always love a weekend talk to people on the outside about the inside. So we appreciate you so much. Not a problem. Thank you for having me on.

All right. So we are getting closer and closer to the start of football, blue and white scrimmage game, anticipated to be this weekend. We hope that was the, that was at last check. We thought that was going to happen. So we'll have, of course, all of our thoughts from that. Maybe we'll get some of the local beatwriters on

and have a round table of sorts since that'll be. socially distanced. But exciting, I know for a lot of fans that we're finally digging into football and talking less about COVID and the possibility of not having it. Thank you for tuning in with us. Love some of our guests today. And we'll continue to bring you some of the fun nuggets as the season continues. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com.

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