The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Former Cowboys Asst. Coaches Kris Richard and Gary Brown Discuss the Dallas Experience

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby welcome back a couple of familiar faces to Cowboys fans. Former Cowboys coaches Kris Richard and Gary Brown stop by to talk about their time in Dallas, and what they’re doing now. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that doesn't. not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries,

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slash tune-in. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt, a Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, coming straight to you from the

Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well, Bobby, we certainly haven't had a lack of material for the podcast this year. And a friend of the show, Ben Danucci, looks like he is going to be the starter for the Cowboys this week as they head into what I would consider sort of a must win when you look at how this NFC East Division is playing out. And of course, they've got the Steelers ahead of the buy week. They need a little bit more confidence. And it's funny, Zecchio Elliott said that, you know, while it looks like Ben Danucci is,

you know, this confident guy in the huddle, and we certainly, I think, marveled at his confidence when he was on our podcast this spring and his likability factor. They call it a cue factor in TV when they ask the audience, how do you respond to this person?

What is their personality? Like, he had a high cue rating for me. But I think he'd be a little hard pressed to find his college tape because he was all over the place. He was. He started out at Pitt, I believe, and then he transferred over to James Madison. James Madison's not like a giant school. It's actually kind of funny that the Cowboys ended up with two rookies from James Madison out of the draft. But he certainly was impressive. And this will be a big test for him because, I mean, it's basically going to come down to, okay, if you can beat Philly, you've still got a chance to kind of compete for the division here. If you lose, you're not beating Pittsburgh the following week. I'm sorry to tell you guys already, that's my prediction.

but I think if they lose to Philly and then undoubtedly lose to Pittsburgh, I think now you're looking at, okay, where exactly in the top 10 are the Cowboys going to be picking? I agree. Well, I think it's important for a lot of the fans that I saw on my Twitter timeline on Sunday asking who Ben Danucci is. Here's just a little sample. What do you view as your responsibility walking in the door as somebody who's competing for that number two spot behind Dak Prescott? Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is, you know, from day one, the minute I step in there,

I've got to be the same guy that I've been in the last seven years. And whether that's, you know, push Dax for the starting job or just compete to make the team. I'm going to do whatever it takes. I've always been kind of one of those team first guys. So not going to try to overstep any boundaries. And, you know, I know that, you know, Dax's the starter and he has been for the last few years. And, you know, obviously deservingly, he's about to get paid for, you know, what he's done on the field the last few years. So the biggest thing for me is, you know, I'm just going to try to come in and learn as much as I can from him.

He was in a similar situation to me as being a fourth-round draft pick, obviously not. not in the seventh round, but very similar playing styles and similar situations. So being able to kind of pick his brain a little bit and just, you know, absorb as much information as possible.

As soon as I walk in the door, I think that will, you know, be beneficial for me. What I think is intriguing too, Ben, is with the Mike McCarthy regime, we're just as new as dealing with him

as you're going to be. But he talked ahead of the draft, the importance of having a backup that because in Dallas, they've sort of struggled with having guys that are, that they have developed enough that they consider them valuable.

trade pieces, you know, moving down the line, meaning you're going to get some meaningful reps. Do you feel like Dallas was that sort of an ideal situation for you, given some of the places you can go as a backup and sort of get lost in the mix? Sure, I think no doubt. I think, you know, Coach McCarthy's track record speaks for himself. You know, you look what he did with Aaron Rogers in Green Bay. And I think, you know, Matt Flynn was a seventh round pick that, you know, he had in Green Bay too. And he had a pretty good, you know, career. I think, what, he was in the league nine or 10 years. So just the guys that he's worked with before. And, you know, after being drafted, you know, some of the other teams coaches that had, you know, been interested in me too and said,

you know, dude, congrats. You couldn't have ended up in a better place with, you know, coach McCarthy and coached Nossmeyer. So they just said they were pulling for me and, you know, just to stay in touch because you never know kind of how this thing goes in the NFL. So, extremely excited to get to work with Coach McCarthy and, you know, all that he brings to the table. In terms of getting to go and work with Coach McCarthy and working with the rest of the team. Do you have an idea of what that's supposed to look like yet with some of these COVID restrictions still in place? Do you know, I guess what's the next step for you in this process of trying to get to work and get prepared for the season? You know, I don't. You know, my coach,

Coach Nussmeyer texted me last night and said, hey, I'm going to give you a ring tomorrow and we've kind of been laying out a rough schedule. But I think some of these virtual meetings are supposed to start next week. So they've sent me an iPad that has the playbook and some of this stuff already preloaded into it. So I think, you know, right, I'm in the same position as these guys are. No one really knows how to, you know, react and adapt to this thing. So I think their plan is, you know, we're just going to take this thing week by week. And as soon as, you know, we hear anything else, you know, we'll relay that information as soon as we can to you guys. What I think is interesting, too, for you, Ben, is a lot of these guys on offense are coming into a new situation. With the exception,

you know, DAC wasn't in the virtual chats last week by all accounts, even though that wasn't officially confirmed. This offense literally has a, week on you. They started last Monday, and they're learning the terminology and this new offense since there's been a change. So do you think that helps you a little bit? Because I know Dack could talk a little bit about, you know, and this is just really applies to any player. When they come from college to the NFL, there's so much information. It's really going to rely on you to be a self-starter. Are you one of those guys? And are you sort of embracing this challenge? Yeah. So the thing that's actually pretty interesting about all this is, you know, my five years in

college, I've had five different offensive coordinators. So every, every spring I was getting used to the plan of, hey, you know, I've got a new coach and I've got another quarterback competition. So I've been a part of five different playbooks and kind of had to, had to learn on my feet quick, you know, in those five years. So been around a lot of ball and had a lot of different coaches. So I think that's one of the things that'll play in an advantage as I get going here. But kind of, you know, the fact that everyone comes in on ground zero and, you know, it could be a new offense. I think it just, it helps me. And I'll try to get back up to speed as quick as I can.

And Bobby, as we look to this team and, look, they've obviously released two players this week. They sent one to Detroit, Everson Griffin. I still think there's going to be some questions moving forward as it relates to the buy-in, how you get to these guys in the locker room. I think it's important that there is this distinction that you cannot devalue the importance of connection and time spent. And Troy Aitman sort of alluded to that this week

as he tried to make sense of why this offensive line full of so many young guys didn't immediately throw hands at Bostick for that ridiculous hit on Andy Dalton. But I think to get a sense of that, you've got to talk to some of the guys that have done it, that have connected with some of these players. And I'm not saying by any means or any of these the players that are disgruntled.

But as I said, the frustration as it relates to this disconnect, it's been pervasive. I've talked to a number of... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

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follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. People who it's just not a few disgruntled guys in the locker room or people with axes to grind or guys that aren't grasping concepts. It does feel like this thing is pervasive. So how do you get a sense of them? And more importantly, where are they now? I always love that. What was it, VH1 that did this? Where are they now?

Where is Chris Richard? Where is Gary Brown? We were lucky enough to get two guys that have aspirations to continue coaching, one, a head coach here on our podcast. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries. gourmet treats, and more.

Surprise your Valentine with 1,800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18th stem enchanted rose medley for $3999, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption,

presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest?

Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too because when we disconnect from this and connect with this we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think.

Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Joining us now is former Cowboys Passing Game Coordinator and former 85th overall pick in the, I believe,

two NFL draft out of USC. Chris Richard. Chris, how you doing? I'm doing great. I appreciate you guys having me on. Was it 85? Was I right on that? Were you 85th? You were right. You've been doing your homework. That's pretty cool. I had one of my favorite notes. I had two

favorite notes the last couple years. One was when Jason Witten entered the locker again had come out of retirement is I found a screenshot of when Julius Jones on that crazy Monday night football game with Jerry Rice in Seattle. Julius Jones running in the winning touchdown. You can see Chris Richard in pursuit and Jason Witton coming into frame.

And so it's like now, look, you've got the coach here. And then the other was- You posted that picture? I did. That was you? That was me. That was me. I found that photo.

Dude, he's the rain man. It is. He's a dumpster diver. He will find all the things. And my other favorite little note was that you were one of three top 100 picks in the 2000-draft that was on staff. last year because Andre Gerard and Mark Colombo were in that same draft and went in the Colombo went in the first round of Chicago and Dre went in the second round to Dallas.

That's right. Wow. Look at that talent pool there. Good. I know. Yeah. It was something about that 2002 draft. Maybe that's a thing. Maybe that's for future. All you guys still play right now, I feel like the Cowboys can use. Come on. Yeah. Depth right now. Oh, no. That's the, oh, man. Like I got well I have you better be covered too. I got one play left in me and I need to be clouded. Oh yeah, you got you got to just be it as a, you're not going to go man. Yeah.

No, I can't do it. No, no. Well, I know everybody is excited to hear from you here. I know some people have wondered like, what's Chris Schaer doing? Did he end up on a coaching staff? And so what is it that you're doing right now? What's the next step for you? And what are you looking forward to?

Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely looking forward to getting. back in, took the year to continue to prepare for head coach. And that's the ultimate goal. And that's what we're still preparing for every day. So, you know, there were, there were certainly opportunities out there for me to continue coaching. But we didn't believe that any of those opportunities were essentially going to be aligned. with this ultimate goal that we're talking about. How tough was that conversation with your family?

Here's the deal. I'm going to take a year off. I believe that I deserve a head coaching job, especially when we've seen the lack of diversity as it relates to the coaching pool. You know, the irony is they haven't known, especially my boys, they have not known me outside of coaching year to year to year.

You know, there was a time there when I stopped playing. Essentially, there was a half a year, right, the season to where, like, I exclusively, like, took care of my daughter. You know, my wife, who's a stud, like, she kind of picked up the slack. And she was a kindergarten teacher. And like literally she would drive 50 miles, right? Like this is one of those, I walk barefoot in the snow uphill both ways type deal. And like we're dealing with California traffic.

And she's, she's hitting the role every day, you know, going to, going to teach. And she was a teacher, a kindergarten teacher down in Englewood. And, you know, she kind of really, she really picked up the slack for us as a family. And during this time and during this transition to where, you know, I made a, the decision to go into coaching and, you know, went to, went to a USC to become a graduate assistant and all the rest is history after that. But like that moment there was like the last time that I actually spent like out of football per se. And my daughter's a, she's a toddler, you know, at that time. So does she really know? Like, no, she never really knew. The only one

whoever really knew me outside of professional football has been my wife. So it's all, it was new. It was new to them. I don't know. Like I think it was like it was really good timing considering, you know, like where we are in 2020. Like 2020 has been this year of brand new with the pandemic and all this different type of stuff. And I don't know, retrospectively yet to be determining if it was a great idea. But no, we feel we feel great.

about it. And I've never had this time to be able just to sit back and to get to know my family intimately. You know, and it's like, and it's been amazing. And, you know, like, this is my son's first year playing tackle football. You know, he's in the seventh grade. Like, are you kidding me? Like, I'm out there for every game watching my son play tackle football, you know, like he's getting to do his thing and I'm actually being able to witness it. So it's been cool. I got to ask you real quick on that. You know, when Sean Payton had his leave of absence because of Bountygate, he tells the story about how he took over coaching for his son's middle school team. And there was this detailed playbook.

And a lot of you that were a few guys, I think, actually ended up in the league. Connor, of course, now at DCU, how hard was it for you not to help them come up with a playbook and make it as detailed as possible and go out there and coach? How hard was it to be a spectator or are you even coaching? No, not coaching. He stayed away from that. You let him have to think. It's easy for me. And I've always, I've always told myself that, like, I just want to be a great father.

You know, and I love football, but football's not as important as obviously my relationship. And not as if I would be out there in coaching, it was going to be bad. I'm not saying that at all. But there are certain things that you. you kind of recognize in your children and regardless of the football background and all that stuff like I'm still dad so guess what I have to deal with right dad you don't know so okay if I have to deal with dad you don't know then I don't know you're right I'm just dad I don't know like go have at it you know and just go have a great time and like really and that's that's what's

most important. You know, just watching him do it and watch them all, watch them all, like, do what they do and do it with love. And I respect the space that they would want, right? Because, I mean, yeah, if dad gets involved, like, trust me, I understand Coach Payton. Like, Sean, I get it. Get it, man. Like, you know, and I can't say that it will be anything different than that.

And I'm just not sure if they're ready for it, or at least they want it. So you just want me to be dad. like trust me, I can just be dead. It's funny because my, so my son started playing tackle football same age, seventh grade. And I remember I was talking to somebody actually like within the league

and I brought this up a couple weeks ago. But I was having this discussion. I was like, how, how like, how, what do I need to look for? What do I need to be like trying to instill in him and like what kind of feedback is valuable feedback at that age? And they said, look, seventh, eighth grade, up in high school, that changes.

But seventh and eighth grade, the only thing you need to be looking for from them is effort. Are they give an effort on every snap or are they loafing it? And then the other thing is, are they showing respect to their coaches and are they taking instruction from their coaches? Outside of that, you don't need to say a single word to them about how they played or anything. You just need to look at effort and were they receptive to instruction. Outside of that, you keep your mouth shut.

That's it, man. Like, you got it. Like, where's the manuscript? Like, somebody's got to write that down. That's real. You know, that's absolutely true. You definitely don't see that in Texas high school football. There's a lot of dads who have not even been at your level who like to coach their kids.

And I think it sours a lot of them as a result. I want to ask you, you talked about taking the year away to prepare for being a head coach. What does that look like for you, coach? What has been your process? What's been your day to day? What nuances of the game have you been able to see stepping away from it and being a spectator this year? Well, it's, I mean, my iPad is loaded. So it's not as if I'm not watching any sort of trends or anything of that nature.

And I think the cool part is it's kind of when you sit back and you recognize that you, you don't have to reinvent the will, but you may have to rework it. And that's okay, because it's not ever going to be about reinventing the will, but it certainly will be about reworking the will. And I would say the beautiful part about our game in general is there's only so many ways that you can skin a cat. So certain trends and things like that that you see consistently carrying over time and time again. Like, you know you're on the right track in regards to preparation. I'll say the greater portion of it is philosophically, right? And it's kind of just reloading. You know, it's like making sure that I'm on par with the vision, with the standard.

My quote game's got to be tight, right? So I got to make sure that I have my quotes and that the material is going to be, you know, on task. And that's really been the greater portion of it is that it's just making sure that all the material, all the quotes, philosophically speaking that we make sure we stay sharp there. What would you say that from your time in Dallas, was there anything that I guess challenged any of your philosophies

or anything you learned from your time of Dallas that said, you know what, in that two years I spent in Dallas, I learned this about the game of football. I'd always thought this and now I'm starting to think maybe did you take away anything from your time in Dallas that said, you know what, that challenged some long held beliefs I had about the game of football? No, no. My experience in Dallas was awesome. It was. It was. It really was. And I would say, like, the best part of it all is that my family is here and they're thriving. Like, my wife, my children. And, I mean, quite honestly, if the Dallas Cowboys never existed, like, we were making this move to Dallas. Like, period. Like, that, that was.

was happening. And it just so happened that the cowboys were here. And, you know, they, they invited me on to join their staff. So coming here was more about a move for our family than it was for anything. Football speaking wise, you know, just just having a chance to get around other people to hear other philosophy, other coaches, right? Because I spent the entirety of my time in Seattle. And just to get out and to see other people at work. And then obviously, you know, to be able to see whether or not you're going to be able to recreate your standard, right, personally, as a defense, defense coordinator,

defensive coach and things like that, you know, just want to just being able to see if who you are, what you bring, what you represent can stand a test of time. So were there any challenges in particular? Like, no, I can't say that there were any challenges in particular. It's just kind of being able to recreate the type of football that you know to be a championship standard. You know, like that's always going to be the challenge, right? And that's what's always going to be the challenge year after year. I think the one thing that everyone needs to understand, and I think a lot of people do,

is in in general nobody comes back the same. So whether you've been in a particular system or not year after year after year is going to obviously bring and present its own different set of issues and challenges. Because why nobody comes back the same? When you look at, you know, talking about some of your beliefs that you have and specifically how you'd reference, you know, not, you know, reinventing the wheel, but, you know, tweaking the wheel or however it was, I know that one thing that has been a big philosophy of yours, and you may not want to give away all the secrets, but I am curious because I think fans always have a curiosity about like, okay, what is that?

And it's, I've heard it called by two names, so you can correct me which one it is. And it's the press man technique that you guys use that you're in favor of. It's the step kick or the kick step, depending on who you talk to. So could you explain a little bit without. obviously giving away all your trade secrets. What that philosophy was, what you try and teach in Pressman and what that is all about? Well, I could.

But there might be a knock on your door a little later on. We don't want that knock on the door. Is it going to be from a gum-chewing gentleman? It may be from the initials PC. No, no, no, in all seriousness. Well, really it's about simplifying the case. game, you know, and I think kind of what I've, what I've grown to learn or at least to understand is that me in particular, that I may have to be careful with my language, right? And I say that

because when I say it's simple or we're simplifying it, people tend to believe that it's simple. well, the deal is in the detail. What makes it complicated is in the detail. But that's the difference between kind of being a teacher and being a professor. Right? The professors get more notoriety. But the teachers are the ones that actually do the job. See, what the teachers do is they take something complicated and they make it simple.

And what do professors do? Right? They love to profess. Let me show everyone how smart I am, right? Like I'm the professor. This is how brilliant I am. And well, but then typically what professors end up doing is they take something simple and they make it complicated.

Well, our game is a complicated game. Our scheme, our system is a complicated system. it's a system contrary to what everyone else is running. Universally, college, things of that nature. You see more of the too high safety look, high school, right? You see the too high safety look. They're playing quarters. They're playing cover two.

They're playing man to man. Everybody plays man. That's the universal. Everybody plays man. And what these guys, by the time we get them in the NFL, a majority of their career up to that point, they've been. playing quarters. Like they don't really know much else. Or if at least they're playing a covered three system, then it's more of a match three system, which plays more like man,

right? See the man to man thought. Yep. Right there. So, you know, what we do, right, is again, teach them something new, something that they're not accustomed to. And we're able to teach it in a form of fashion that makes it really simple for them to understand how we break it down, how we introduce it, how we practice it, how we prepare for it, and essentially how the offense prepares for us. And more times than not, what we end up doing is essentially we end up dictating how offenses are going to attack us time after time after time. And we have to get really good at stopping the plays that we know we're going to ultimately see.

that's defensively schematically. I know you asked me more in particular about, you know, the press technique. And that's also where, you know, I have to make sure a lot of guys understand and kind of what I've grown to know and learn early on is that this league, they can pigeonhole you. All right? And they can pigeonhole you and like take the secondary, secondary, right? the secondary in particular, you take a look at that and you go, well, you have corners and safeties. And then somebody will come out and go, oh, that guy's a corner's guy. Right. And that guy's a safeties guy. And you end up pigeonholing a coach. And you go,

well, no, he's not a corners guy or a safety's guy. He's a secondary coach, right? Or he coaches the defensive backs. That is a defensive backs coach. And that's kind of something that I've always had in my mind to make sure that whoever I've had the opportunity to work with, that they've kind of never, ever went under that umbrella. You know, it's like, you're not, you're not a safeties guy. You're not a corners guy. Like, you are a defensive backs coach, right?

And it's like saying, like, when you're a coordinator, well, he's coordinating, like, just to coordinate the back end, right? Or he's just coordinating to coordinate, well, no, it's a defensive. scheme you know it doesn't which i digress because yeah you got the pass again coordinator and all that stuff anyhow like anyhow but it's a semantics semantics when when you try to explain something that you believe in yeah how do you get some of these guys to buy in that maybe don't understand understand how to do it or are familiar with the nuances of it and the why how do you how do you how do you how do you get through to them?

Yeah, I think you do it with truth and you do it with love. And what is love? Right? What is love? It's, you know, by subjective type of thought. And we all know we have a feel and a sense and an idea. But what is it really? You know, and if it's one thing that I know, it's commitment.

when you, when you, when you say you love something or you love someone, then you're committed to it. You're committed to that person. And, you know, a lot of these guys that, you know, I have the chance to meet. I don't, I don't know them from Adam. And they don't, they don't know me either. Um, the one thing that, that we have in common is, theoretically, a love for football, you know, I know I love it. you say you love it, we'll get to the point to where we find out. And I think what guys are able to realize, and I'm hoping that's what is what they're able to realize, is that I care about them more as a person first.

I love them as a man first. and if we work on the man, the football player would take care of itself. I have one responsibility as a coach. And that's to get these guys to be the absolute best that they can be. Not the best football player, the absolute best person that they can be. And the football would take care of itself. That's number one.

That's, I mean, really, that's the end all. And that's where it'll start and that's where it'll finish. So whether we have one week together or 10 years together and I'm able to coach you, I want to make sure that there's a lasting impact on your life. Too many times, especially in this game, and it starts young, it starts young. Too many times in life, our guys have to deal with interaction or they have to deal with relationships that are all transactional. What can you do for me?

Right? What can you do for me? Well, that's not it. I'm more interested in building relationships. And I'm more interested in interactions that are transformational. So whether it's one week, or 10 years, we're going to have interaction that's going to be transformational. And you're going to see, you're going to recognize that what we're doing here is bigger than football.

Like these guys, I said, I mean, you know, like you have the word at your feet and all that cool stuff or whatever else you can think of. And like these guys have a really great opportunity to have a great impact, not only just on their particular environment, but on the world in general. you know and what's a coach you know like what's a coach yeah just just give me the plays give me the exes and oh's well no that's no you're you're you're more than that you're more than as a coach and if you're not willing to accept that responsibility that you shouldn't be coached have those bonds lingered with some of the guys in the locker in other words do you still talk to some of your guys do you think that that footprint lasted yeah I talked to I talked to all of them for the most part you know and um but I don't I

I would say like the biggest thing is, is like it's not, it's not about me. It's really, it's not, you know. The relationship that I'm hoping that they all buy into more is the relationship with the guy sitting next to him. Those are the ones that are going to last longer than anything, right? Like, that's your peer, you know, like that's the guy that you're going to be able to relate to more. So we'll have our relationship.

but what's most important is that those guys sitting next to one another have the relationship that they know that they can rely on far beyond the years that football are going to get. Bobby, I've got one more for them. I am curious, how do you get guys to do that, especially if you, I'm sure you've dealt with this in Seattle because Seattle's always pretty active with free agency. When you bring in some guys that aren't the homegrown guys to the draft,

how do you create that sort of bond in the locker room. And while you haven't coached, obviously this year and in COVID, could you see some limitations on that, given just what people are doing with to get that bond to work? How would you go about that if that was due?

Yeah, the system is each one teach one. So if it's someone new coming in that hadn't been there, well, who's responsible? Right. Every single man sitting. in that room. Every single person sitting in that room is responsible for the new addition.

But it's a brand new scheme. It's a brand new system. Well, everybody sitting in the room is responsible for the brand new scheme and the brand new system. If we all take the time to hash out and go through the detail, then we'll find our success there. Can't be any freelancing.

campaign making stuff. It doesn't matter how you did it before in the past. It's how we're doing it now. And if we all come, and that's day, this is day one, we all come to the agreement on the vision that we have for our unit. It's really easy for the coach to stand up there and go, well, this is what we, you know, this is the vision for the team and the vision for the defense,

and this is how we want to make sure the vision for the offense, and this is how we want to do it. But, you know, if the butts in the seats don't agree, then it's going to be a whole lot more difficult than what it should be. But I think that's kind of the thing that you want to lay out day one. And I think it's important that after you give your vision, then the guys have the opportunity to share their vision. So that way, now vision of the coaches, the vision of the players,

and now we combine the two to find our sense. energy. And then also you're able to take that same vision and whenever we're not, whenever we're not upholding that standard, this is what we hold ourselves accountable to. So we identify what our standard is. We agree upon it. And now we hold each other accountable to it. It's, it's funny. I know, uh, Chris is a humble guy. He's, he wouldn't tell this story on his own. But, uh, so I'll go ahead and tell it because I just know it personally, which is, uh, you, Chris made the point there. He said, said, you know, whether it's one week or 10 years.

And I remember specifically I was talking to Justin March, Cowboys linebacker, who had about a cup of coffee in Seattle for about 10 days in 2017. And Justin had either right before he got to Seattle or right after he'd lost his brother. And later that season, when he had moved on, they were playing Seattle. And he said, you know, I was a special team guy mostly. like I didn't expect Chris would even like remember I'd come through the locker room and he said pregame Chris came up to him and asked him, you know, how everything was that he'd been praying for him, you know, basically just offered him some encouragement. And so Justin was saying that was like a really important thing to him that he said, you know, I didn't anticipate like a coach would remember me from like a week stay or whatever. And then it wasn't just he remembered me, but he like wanted to reach me and he wanted to talk to me and he wanted to, you know, check on me. And I remember he was really. excited when Chris was coming to Dallas because it was, you know, I get to be around him again. And even though it was such a short time, it was such a big impression on him. And so,

so that's the kind of thing I think that, you know, is exactly what you're talking about. And I like you saying commitment because one of my favorite quotes of all time is you're getting your quote board ready, Chris, for the next one. Sinclair Ferguson, who's a Scottish theologian, always had my favorite definition of love. He said love is not maximum emotion. Love is maximum commitment. I love that one. Amen. And there we go. So like we've got Chris, the Scottish Theologian.

There you go. Yeah, Chris in line with the Scottish Theologian. No, that's awesome. I appreciate you. Yeah, absolutely. Now, when you look at there, there's been some question, I guess. I remember when you first came to Dallas,

one of the big questions was, man, how somebody like Jordan Lewis is going to fit in? Or how, like, because Seattle's got all these, like, you know, these requirements of that scheme requires all these sorts of things. And then Jordan obviously stuck around the whole time you were here. Jordan got, you know, on the field.

Jordan made place for the team. To what extent does your scheme dictate what kind of personnel you're fleshing out versus, you know, how personnel dictates what kind of scheme you're going to run out there? Is it generally the same sort of system and just say, well, if we don't have the exact parts we need, we'll make some little tweaks, or how do you generally approach that question? Well, that's exactly right. And I think that's kind of the mentality or the focus that you take as a coach. specifically, right?

It's when I, when I, when I, when I, when I wake up in the morning, right? Like, yeah, there's, there's a, there's a profile. Okay. Like, yeah, of course it's a particular profile, right? This is, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Well, if you don't get it, then what? Right? Then what?

Yeah. Well, the whole idea is, is, you know, I know you guys have heard this statement before, but like, I'll take my guys and kick your butt, and I'll take your guys and kick your butt. So, you know, and that's like that, that's a real mentality. And I think a lot of guys, that's what makes more of the successful coaches continuously have success. It's, yeah, you have an idea, right? You have a standard.

You have a vision. But what if? Okay. But what if you don't have all of those guys? Well, it doesn't make a difference. You know, you're going to take, you're going to take what you have and you're going to make what you have work. How are you going to make it work?

Okay. Then what's your definition of work? Okay. Right. It's like, no, getting the guys to be the absolute best that they can be, period. I think there's been some thought or some discussion that people had thought that the scheme that was being run the last couple of years that, you know,

maybe like, well, there wasn't enough disguising, which I thought was interesting because I know you had said that, uh, your very first training camp interview you gave. I remember the quote that stuck out to me was, you said our goal is we want to create as many problems for the offense pre-snap as possible

and that you wanted to make things as difficult form as possible. In general, is that still, you know, is that something that you feel like you were able to achieve in Dallas, that you were able to do those sorts of things you wanted? Or is that an instance where maybe they're right? There wasn't as much pre-snap stuff and it's because personnel was dictating scheme or how would you generally respond to that? what would you say would be more of the threatening looks for a quarterback when he walks up to the line of scrimpage? What is kind of the in general idea?

In terms of just showing him, showing him a coverage look or in terms of like showing him blitz or? Yeah, it's like something that's the most kind of type of menacing look, right? You want to create type of this, this look, right? which is the whole point of disguising, right, is to make the quarterback uncomfortable. Well, what if I were to tell you, one of the more uncomfortable things for a quarterback to see is all just why receivers pressed up.

But then he looks up and he goes, oh, my goodness, my timing's getting ready to be thrown off. All of my guys are being jammed. All of my guys are getting pressed. All of my guys are going to be challenged at the line of scrimmage. Now, I only say that because that's just part of philosophic, because that's just a part of the problem, right? What would a quarterback rather see when he walks up to the line of scrimmage?

He'll rather see somebody on the outside soft and off because he knows, okay, well, I can go with the ball here. So, yeah, there's, there's multiple ways that you can achieve either confusing or intimidating a quarterback pre-snap. And that's essentially the idea, right? So the whole kind of confusing the guy. Well, I'm not sure how many quarterbacks who get confused, like how long they actually last.

I think a big part of it is is if a quarterback believes he has something or he believes he's going to have an outlet and then you take that away. Right. So you take what they do best away from them. And then you start to impose your will on an off. but disguising, that's a process. Disguising is a process. That's a part of the ongoing process because there's a such thing as ability alignment.

If your ability only goes so far and yet a defense requires a particular amount of disguise here and there, well, if you have half the field and you're just not quite athletic enough to be able to show a single high look and then get back. to the half, then obviously the best thing for you to do in particular is just to go ahead and stand back there to make sure you take care of your half because ability says, I need to be aligned here. And that's just all a part of the general philosophy and kind of understanding who you have and just being able to go through and be able to work from there. You said you've looked at a lot of tape this year, and I'm curious, if you watch these Cowboys game, and if you have, given the sense that there's just been such a knock on this team for a lack of gap integrity and effort and assignments, are you shocked by that? I have not had the chance to watch them specifically.

Now, I've been more of a casual fan on Sundays, just kind of zipping through, right? um direct tv so we got we got the package and like i'm exhausted by the time we get through the first series flexing on the morning look at that right because like i'm trying to watch them all so i'm clicking i'm clicking i'm clicking i'm clicking and by the time we get to the second half the afternoon well the afternoon like we're 12 central time here right like by the time we get to the second half of the game it's like i'm exhausted you know i think a fan is exhausting see now you can speak to it Yeah, no, it's, it's awesome. And, no, like, I love it.

I love just being able to kind of go through and take a look at all the different situations, you know, and that's a big part of the, of kind of the preparation is kind of going through each and every single game and trying to catch as many situations as I can, you know, just kind of stay situationally involved, right, and situationally aware. Has that been tough for you? I mean, when we talk about your career trajectory, you mentioned you want to be a head coach eventually. Has that presented any problems?

Because I mean, you're somebody who's interviewed for head coaching jobs and things like that. Has that presented any sort of, I guess, personal tension for you. I don't want you to speak to somebody else's feelings. But has that created any problems for you where it's like, man, I don't necessarily want this guy to think I'm coming for his job. I think that's something that a lot of people really thought was great about the way Rod Marinelli had worked so well with you. And it said, like, hey, let's let's let Chris do the interviews during the week.

I'd really like to, you know, people need to hear Chris's perspective. is that something that you think has been, is something to consider when you're also picking a job as like, hey, look, I don't necessarily want this guy to think I'm coming for his heels. Like, I'm just waiting for him to mess up and I'm going to swoop in and take his job. Yeah, no doubt.

But I think that comes with relationships, which, I mean, it's part of the reason why a lot of guys get hired to begin with. But I think it's a big thing in regards to our profession and more along the other coaching ranks is like you have to be willing to get to know someone. Right?

Like you can't make a decision about someone based upon hearsay or just because like you ask somebody that you believe yourself that while I can trust, well, my thing is is when you ask someone about another person, who's there to authenticate the character

of the person you're asking? So you're asking character questions Or these type of personal questions about somebody Like that's that's what you have to get to know yourself You know and I think that that's that happens few and far between in our league Like people will rather sit back and go well so-and-so said this or so-and-so thinks that And you know like these false narratives and alternative truths That's a kind way to say live

but okay. You know, and it kind of, but I guess that's everywhere. You know, like it plagues our society in general, you know, is that people, they're not willing to take the time

to get the no someone themselves, themselves. And, you know, to answer your question specifically, um, no, I think it's, it's,

it's dangerous in the sense that, yeah, people can be intimidated by, ambition. Right? So yeah, they'll look at me. They know what my ultimate goal is. I'm not afraid to share it because, no, like, no,

this is who I am. Certainly absolutely does not mean I'm going to undermine or do it? Right. So all these different things that may come about, well, I think what you'll grow or learn if you're willing to, you want to know, is that I'm loyal. you know and so the danger of ambition is other people's problem because they may be afraid for for me it's kind of a deal to where yeah it's kind of it's it's kind of a peculiar place to be in

because well yeah like that that picture has been painted of me, right? Well, this guy should be the next guy and, and, like, trust me, like, I'm flattered, you know, like, that humbles me. But is it damaging to me? I mean, I don't know that, you know?

I don't want your job, you know? Like, I don't, I don't want to take anybody's job. Like, that's, no, that's, that's, that's, that's just not me. You know, like, that's, that's, that's not my brand at all. you're right like brand like it's like well i do think it's telling because you know you talk about who speaks to your character and rod spoke to your character a number of times and said you deserved a head coaching job um and i think by him having you out there you know doing the media with us

um in that capacity i think spoke to that you know i don't think a guy like rod marinelli is is vouching for rolling people out there that he doesn't think are ready for that job. I mean, I look at Matt Iber Fluse was another one that he spoke highly of and thought, you know, at least deserved a defensive coordinator job somewhere else. And then Matt got that in Indianapolis. If you get to sit down with the GM after this, this offseason, coach, what's the one thing that you would say to them?

Wow, man, like, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a really, real good one right there, you know. and what is this now? I've been through, what, six of them? I've been to six of them already now. I don't know, man. It's like I feel like I'm like I'm red in the Shawshank Redemption or something like that. Right. By the time he comes to the, you know, like he gets to the second parole and he sits back or are you rehabilitated.

You know, he's like, you sit back and you go rehabilitate it. You tell me what that means, right? So it's like, nah, like, oh, shoot, like he's rare from Shawshank, you know. But no, it's, I think it's simple, right? Like, I'm ready. I've been preparing. I'm ready. And just like any other coach that you would hire,

it's a blind leap of fate. So I'm not one to toot my own horn, you know, like, I really don't like to talk about me, you know, Like, I don't, but when that time comes. I couldn't get you to talk about much last year, quite frankly. Yeah, it's a different time, right? Like, you know, kind of in the midst of it, you know, and it's like, yeah, what's your, you know, we talk about what's the players why?

What's your why? Yeah, yeah. Why do you want to be a head coach? And I have a great impact, to have a great impact on me on my environment, right? And it's really, it's, it's through humility. It's, it's to lead, you know, is to give these guys a greater understanding, you know, to where like you got a, you have a set of team rules,

you have a philosophy, you got all these great ideas, all this type of cool stuff. And, but really, it's not about the team, you know. It's not about the team. It's about being a try. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the inherent. enhanced games.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life. mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross Double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day But just so y'all know

I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed crack So I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now So Thank you finishing that sentence And yes

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Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcast Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we

don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. See, the tribe lives to exist for one another. Team is a group of individuals coming together. You know, there's much more power in being a tribe. And if the tribe is connected for one common goal inside of a building, then that same tribe is going to be connected outside of the building to where now you're starting to grow and foster these relationships.

to where you can start your own businesses. Like you can go out in the community, right? And you can do it together. And you're not out there all by themselves, right? You hear all these horror stories about, oh, you can't trust this and you can't trust that? Well, how about can you trust a man who sat next to you for all these times to go out and get all this stuff done?

So it's just so much more of a bigger picture than just football. all. And that's that's kind of what I hope to do, you know. But I do recognize and realize that, you know, just to focus and stay focused. And it may, it's a big part of the teaching too, right? Just stay focused on what you ultimately control. And that's your effort in your attitude. Right. Well, seven's a lucky number, coach. I hope you get the seven. There we go. Yeah, right. Would it be like, yeah. It hasn't been like, really, like it's been, has it been like six. I think it has. we'll say it's so that you can get the seven.

Yeah, seven's the, I mean, that's, that's Vegas, lucky number sevens. That's biblical. God seemed to like sevens in the Bible. So, I mean, it's, it's a good number to have. I'm sure we will be seeing Chris Schard on a sideline again shortly. He doesn't have any Twitter or Instagram for you to follow. So I don't have that normal wrap up. But we'll just say thank you to coach Chris Schaard and all the best and enjoy this time.

as you say, getting to know your family a little bit better. All right. Thank you guys again. I really appreciate you. You coming to bed, hon? Yep, honey, I'll be right there. Just got to turn out the light. Ow! Some things never change.

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Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off.

Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat.

Visit nhtsa.com. Slash the Right Seed. Brought to you by Mitzha and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination.

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Brought to you by the United States. United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Joining us now is former NFL running back and former Cowboys running backs coach Gary Brown. Gary, how you doing? I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Coach, I got to tell you. I have missed your smiling face in the building. And I thought as we are talking about this rivalry game with the Eagles, one of my favorite memories of you is Cowboys on the road final game.

got to get the wind to get in the playoffs. And you were over there, jarring with the Eagles fans. Like, you never turned down a fight. You know, you wouldn't have been able to do it this year with COVID. This has been a really challenging year,

coach, but I miss seeing your smiling face. So it means a lot that you took the time to jump on here. A quick update for the fans that may not be familiar. Obviously, you've taken a year off from coaching.

Yeah. You've been going through a personal fight of your own. Perhaps you can share that with the fans that I know care a lot about you and players around the league. Yeah, basically what I'm going through is a cancer issue. They found some cancer down in my bowel duct area. So I've been working on that.

It's been a situation where I've had some things go up and down. It's kind of been back and forth. But for the most part, it's been very positive. I've been told that I'll be able to continue my career. I just started a new immunotherapy type of situation where it's very good for what I have. So it's a situation where I wish I didn't have to deal with it, but given the situation, it's a positive outlook on a promising future.

I just got to continue to change some things about myself. As you know, Jay and I like to eat. So I had to let the pizzas and the hamburgers and all that stuff go for a little while and let my body take care of itself. So I'm very happy with where it's going. The doctors are very happy with where it's going. And I'm just looking forward to getting back to work. If I have to say you're having a bit of an Adele moment here. You know, Adele has debuted and she is, you know, some of us haven't taken advantage of COVID.

I know I did in the beginning, but at the end, it's hard to be consistent. But you look great. And every time I've checked on you, all you talk about is wanting to get back to coaching. You know, we had Chris Richard on, and he's really enjoyed some of the time to connect to this family, and I know you love your kids and you love Kim, but you just can't stop talking about coaching.

How much is it just killed you to watch some of these games at home? And by the way, we don't fault you for it, Coach. You've been battling on your own football field here. Oh, yeah. Listen, I agree with Chris. It's been a great opportunity to hang out with the kids, hang out with Kim, get to know how the house works and how she runs it. So it's been really good. But at the same time, it's been killing me, not being out there doing the things that I love to do.

And what I love to do is really teach. I really love to teach the guys the game with football. I really like being around the guys, the coaches, even the media like yourself, the good ones, the ones that don't try to, you know, make you look bad. but I miss all those things. You're hard to make it good, Gary. I appreciate it, but I really miss being out on that grass and doing what I love to do. So I'm really looking forward to getting back into it.

I think it was just a divine intervention that would happen to me, because if it didn't happen to me, if I did get a job right away, I wouldn't have even thought about going to the doctor, thought about trying to get my health together. I'd have been doing the same thing and it got worse and who knows what had happened.

So it was divine intervention. And now that he is taking care of me this way, now I can go back and work. I am so happy about being found it here on the end. Thank you. Absolutely. Now, you have been a bit more of a spectator this year, have you gotten a chance to sit back and watch some of the Cowboys games

or are you just being more the channel surfer? Like Chris Richard told us he was more just direct TV channel surfing. I'm a channel surfer, but, you know, I really, when the offences, the cowboy offenses up, I kind of stopped surfing because I like to watch my guy. But, no, I've been watching everything and everybody. Just been able to try to soak up more offensive playbooks and more offensive philosophies and things of that nature.

So when I do get an opportunity to go back and coach again, my knowledge is even better. So I've been trying to channel surf, but at the same time, when 2.1 is out there running, I try to watch. You know, you have a really close relationship with Ezekiel Elliott. And he went through some hard times starting with his rookie year. And, you know, there was a lot of bad press out there about him. But it's interesting, even as the years have gone on, you know, I've gotten a different appreciation of Zique and for who he is. But what stood out for you about Zique that perhaps.

those that don't know Zeeke or that aren't his inner circle get? See, what you don't know about Zieg is that he's a very passionate, caring, private person. I think we all did things when we were younger that we didn't, you know, that we look back on and say, I wish I wouldn't have done that. I think there was a lot of things going on with Zeek at that particular time that, you know, he was a young guy having fun, trying to enjoy life,

but he just made some missteps. and, you know, we talked about those things. I think he appreciated me being able to talk to him about those things, and he's moved on. If you look at him now, he's completely different. He's always been that guy to me. He's been able to share things with me. He's always been very upfront and honest with me

because I think I gave him an opportunity, or I gave myself an opportunity to open up to him to tell him things about myself. And I think that's a key thing with coaching. think until they know you care about them as people, they don't really care about what you know about the X's and O's. I think that's what me and Zeech's relationship is built on, it's built on a personal respect,

a personal love for one another, a personal care about what goes on in our lives. And I think that's how it should be with most players. I think that's why we had such a successful relationship while I was there. So the things with Zeeke that people don't realize like you're asking is that he's just a normal guy. He's just a normal person. I think he'd a lot of pressure being the third or fourth pick.

There's a lot of expectation. But at the same time, you have to understand, he was thrust into a situation that in 20 years old that I know I couldn't be able to handle 20. And, you know, I think he's better for it. I think he's become more of a leader. That way, he was trending that way when I was there. I think he's trying to take on those steps now with that gone.

So I think if people just kind of just let Zee be Zeech, he will impress and he will continue to try to get this team right. Has it been watching watch him struggling as it relates to ball security? And if you had to sit him down as his coach right now, knowing what you know about him and how he responds to things, how would you work through that with him? Well, we would sit down and we would watch the film I'm sure that's what they're doing.

Skip is a great coach, great person. So I'm sure that's what they're doing. And just figure out what the problem is. Is he trying to press too much to make a play because Dak is gone? Has he tried to put too much on his back? I've got to make a play. I've got to make a play. You know, people expect this for me and this and that.

Instead of letting the game come to him, just let the game come to you. You know, just take those three and four yards. You don't have to try to snap off a 50 yard right now. You can just go ahead and get the three-fours, and those 50s will come. I think it's more of him pressing and trying to make a play instead of him trying to just let the game come. When you look at, I saw another former member of the Cowboys coaching staff. Philip Tanner was on Twitter after Zeke had fumbled, and he kind of smacked his helmet, and he was frustrated.

And Philip had tweeted, he said, man, this is, I'm almost certain this is pressing because you don't see Zique express frustration like that. Zeeks usually pretty, I mean, he gets hyped up when he makes a play, but he's pretty even keel. He doesn't let himself get down too low. So that's, you can tell he's really frustrated. Is that something that you can see right now on the field is that he looks genuinely frustrated, like, you know, kind of beating himself up a little bit and that he needs to just kind of refocus a little? I agree.

I think that he just needs to just get back into his lane, just be Zique. and that's been plenty for the last four years, five years, it's been plenty. So just go back to be who you are and those runs will come. Obviously, being banged up up front, you know, that's going to take a toll. You know what I mean? But I think he has the ability to go out and be able to make plays and not have to worry about who's blocking up front because he's that talented. He just has to stay within the scheme, stay within himself, and go out and play

and not put that pressure on himself to make a play all the time. Coach, when you talk about wanting to coach, you've given us the why you love to teach, you love to build up men. You know, I know you've talked about you're going to be ready to go when the season's over to get back into it. If you can get in a room with a GM or an owner, what would you say to them? Why should they hire you? And do you want to continue being a running backs coach? Well, I ask the first question first.

I think, you know, a GM or an owner should hire me because I love what I do. I'm passionate about what I do. I just enjoy the day-to-day coaching grind. I enjoy it. What you're going to give from me is somebody that's going to put everything he has into his players. He's going to have high expectations for his players. The standard is going to be set high. The expectation is going to be set high.

I'm a loyal soldier. You'll never have to worry about me going outside the box and trying to pump myself up to somebody outside the building or we should be doing this or we should be doing that. I was raised by my father. He was a military guy that you stay in line and you become part of the solution, not the problem. Who are to go fight? Period.

And you're never going to have to worry about me not giving you a thousand percent. The second question, I have desires to be more than a running back coach. I understand the business. I understand that us as running back coaches, it's a hard road to get to being a coordinator, but it's not impossible. If you look at Eric De Enemy, you look at Anthony Lynn, you look at guys that have done it. You just have to find an opportunity.

You have to find a guy that's going to say, you know what, Gary, I'm going to take you away for running backs for a year or two and let you coach the quarterbacks or let you coach the receivers because I think that you can do it. So I need to find that guy and when I find that guy, I think that I'll be able to do that.

But until then, I want to continue to try to be the best running back coach I can do. How much of what you saw in the locker room as somebody who was in there as much as you were and you were around the guys, how much do you think the Cowboys lost, not just in what kind of a player he is, what do you think the Cowboys probably lost when Dak Prescott went off in terms of what is his,

I think a lot of people just view him as, well, we don't really see what he does, you know, Monday through Saturday. We see he's a lead by example guy on the field, but I mean, is he a vocal guy? Is he a guy that they're probably really missing right now just for their culture? They're definitely missing Dak Prescott.

You don't really, the outside world doesn't really, really understand how valuable he is in the locker room on that Monday through Saturday. The way he goes about his business, the way he prepares, the way he does the things that are necessary for him to be the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. He's not the rah, rah, scream, and holler. It's by example. And by what he does day in and day out, they are missing him immensely. And you're not going to fill that void.

until he gets back. Obviously, you want to have guys step up and try to fill those shoes a little bit, but nobody is going to fill those shoes completely. So, yes, that is a huge, huge missing piece for the Dowstown. When did you realize Dak was special? Well, I'll tell you what, I have a story about Dak. I knew Dak was special his rookie year

because he came in and he was, you know, very attentive. He was wanting to learn everything. And there was one night that I was like, man, I can't, these signals the quarterbacks are doing, it's going over my head. They're doing them too fast. I need to talk to a quarterback.

So I knew Tony wasn't going to help me because, you know, it was training camp and he had his thing. So I said, let me just ask this young dad to come to my room and help me with these signals. And he came and helped me for like a week straight. And I got the signals down. because he would test me and come by to the running back coach's room on at night at training camp to help me a coach. So I knew right then that this guy, if he ever got an opportunity, is going to be very, very special.

And how does he teach and because I wonder if it translates even into the quarterback's room with some of the guys behind him? How does he teach? I mean, is it the same sort of enthusiasm that we sort of see even when you talk to him in the locker? room? It's the same thing. He's the same person day in and day out, which makes him very easy to deal with. You're never going to get this roller coaster with him. You're going to get an even keel unless he wants to make a point. Then his volume will go up a little bit, but it's not ever demeaning. It's not ever a situation where he's talking down the guys. He's one of the guys, even though he's the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. He feels like he wants to be one of the

offensive line. He wants to be a receiver. He wants to be one of those guys. He just wants to be the guy. He doesn't want to be this thing that his person that's separated for everybody else. So that's what makes him great. When I think there's been some frustration, mainly just from kick returns and things like that, but I think some fans have been frustrated with like, oh, man, Tony Pollard isn't doing, isn't doing the job that he needs to do right now. And I think people have just seen such a small glimpse of his ability and what he can be.

And you saw him all the time out of practice. What kind of a player is Tony Pollard and just, I guess, speak to his ability. and what kind of future you think he has? I think Tony Pollard could be a special player. I think we all saw what he did last year. We all seeing kind of when he gets his opportunities this year, he's very explosive, very explosive. Has good COD change the direction

and is a home run hitter from anywhere on the field. You know, he just needs his opportunities, and I'm sure he'll get those. But I would tell the fans, don't be frustrated. You know, he's doing what? what he's asked to do at this point. He just can't run in the game and say, hey, I'm playing right now. It's a thing where they have a plan for him,

and I guess he's trying to execute the plan as best he can. I think going forward, if he was to ever become a starter, whether it be in Dallas or anywhere else, you would see a tremendous skill set because he can catch the ball out of back foot. He has a receiver background. He has a route running background. And he's a talented runner.

So I think the future is very bright for Tony Powell. So we just have to be patient. You know, it wasn't always 13 and three seasons like we saw for the DAC, Zique rookie season. There were a lot of up and down years. There were injuries. There was obviously questions about coaching. Can you remember a singular moment where it felt like things were tough? and how this locker room, how this coaching staff was able to come together?

Well, I mean, that one year, the year that would be 2015. 16. I think did we draft Zeke in 16? So the year before that, the year before that was pretty tough. That's why we were a fourth pick or third pick or whatever it was. I think what kept us from faring apart was the men in the locker room the guys, the Jason Wittins, the leaders that were in the locker room. As far as us coaches, we just kept believing in what we were doing.

We believed in our coaching philosophy. We believed in what we were doing offensively. We believed in what we were doing defensively. And we never straight off the course. And that's what I thought kind of kept it together. Even though we weren't playing really well, it never felt like we were losing the team, so to speak. It always felt like the guys were ready to fight every week,

and we went out and tried to play the best we could. So aside from not deviating from what you felt philosophically is what you wanted to be offensively and defensively. As a coaching staff, how important was it to connect with these guys? And how do you do that in times when things are tough? Well, I think it was very important. I know Jason always told us as a staff, that we have to know our players.

We have to get to know our players. You have to be, you have to know them as well as you know your own kids. So it was a situation where we took pride in trying to get to know them. We would, you know, do certain things with our players. We would have them over for dinner. We would do things to get to know them because it's so important. Because, again, like I really believe, until they know you care about them as people, they don't care about what you know about us.

They don't care how you can help them. me know you care about me as a person first and then we can go with the football stuff so jason was very very adamant about those types of situations and uh we would just do whatever we had to do to make those guys understand that we are here for you period we're not here for us it's not about us it's about you guys what can we do to help you so that's how we run about it when when you too challenging with covid do you think that it would be hard to connect as a new coaching staff with COVID. Absolutely.

The Cowboys, the cowboy, you know, coaches right now are behind the eight ball. You know, they had no time to get to know these guys. They had no time to OTAs, none of that stuff. So, you know, for them to get to know them like we did, they didn't have that opportunity. So they're behind the eight ball. And it's just a sad situation that they didn't get a chance to know the guys like we did. Like giving them, like given those months of OTAs and training camp and all those things to get to know them, they didn't get a chance to do that.

So I think they're behind me. When you look at a situation like what happened last Sunday with Andy Dalton going down, and you always being an animated guy and a heart and soul kind of guy, had you been over on that sideline, would you have, after the series ended, would you have expressed any sort of like, guys, come on, we can't just have the quarterback hit like that and just kind of stand around and not say anything. Yeah, it probably wouldn't have been that nice, though.

It wouldn't have been that nice. Just generally. I'm summarizing. I would have made it very clear that we can't play that way. But I think that, you know, and I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but those offensive linemen that were in the game, they're young. They don't know. I think they're more concerned about his health than they were about defending him

because the hit was a very vicious hit. I think if you had Tyron Smith, Zach Martin, those guys in the game, that Bostic would have got gripped up, as you should have. I played in the era where,

yes, that linebacker would have been dealt with. So that's how I would deal with it. And I think going forward, this is going to be a learning experience for those young guys that, hey, you know, we got to protect our quills.

quarterback. That's our leader. That's our, that's the guy that we are paid to protect. And, uh, we can learn from this and move forward. I ask you this because you've been in a number of locker rooms as a player and as a coach, but we've kind of, Bobby and I have sort of compared this to a bit of a souffle. This season, you know, you sort of need the right heats. You need the right ingredients. You need a capable chef. Um, for it to rise. Right. It feels like, all of that has been off in varying degrees of the preparation of the souffle. In other words, they thought it was going to look just like they saw on Pinterest. And they didn't quite preheat the oven enough.

Maybe they substituted this ingredient instead of using what Pinterest said. And the person that, by the way, was making the souffle, maybe didn't follow the instructions as best they should. Right. Is it possible that that's kind of what's happening here in Dallas? In other words, it takes a lot for locker room chemistry to happen. It's not ready made. And then when you add a couple of outsiders via coaching staff and players,

that can be really hard to expect that things are going to go without hitch. And then you're going to have all of these injuries. Absolutely. I agree with you 1,000 percent. You can bring in a new staff. you bring in new players you have all these injuries you have a pandemic

it's not there's guys if you look at the teams that are playing well the Pittsburghs the Seattles those guys have been together forever

the system is the same everything is the same for the cowboys who have been dealing with what they're dealing with new staff new players pandemic

all these things it doesn't bode well for success it really doesn't and you have to give those guys a chance to have an OTAs and have an attorney camp before you can say that, oh, they need to be gone and this and that. That's not really fair to those guys.

But I agree. It's something's just off. It just is. And we can look back at a lot of things. And I really believe that without the OTAs and all those things and the pandemic and Zoom meetings. And, I mean, I don't know how I would have dealt with a Zoom meeting with moneybacks. Like, that's not what we do.

in the room, we get on the board, and we ask questions, you guys get on the board, there has to be an interaction. This was, this would be very difficult for me to teach. You know, and I know this newfangled way of teaching, and I know all the schools are doing it, but for me, I'm a hands-on guy. So I really, I really feel for those guys over there. A lot of those guys are still my friends, but, you know, it is what it is. So you're saying, no connection. We can, that's, that's important. as a coach to connect with the players and the players to fill that connection. And if that's off, have you seen in your experience that that's where things sort of start to fall apart?

Absolutely. Absolutely. If I can't, if I'm not, if my relationship is built off a computer screen from the start and then all of a sudden, oh yeah, you guys can play, come to training camp, they don't know me. I don't know them. They don't know what my expectations, my mannerisms, none of that. I think personal interaction is very important to development of a relationship, whether it be football, your wife, your kids, whatever case may be, I think it's very important. And for them guys not to have that on top of the injuries, on top of everything else, it's just bowling for what's going on right now. Well, as we wrap up here, I know you said you have aspirations that go beyond just, you know,

being a running backs coach that, you know, look at Eric B. enemy and, guys like that. So if somebody were to ask Gary Brown and say, Gary, what's your general, you know, give me your two-minute philosophy of what should an offense look like? What is it that you want to do with our offense? What would you say your ultimate goal of designing an offense would be? I think my offense would be multiple in its formations and looks. We would want to be as balanced as possible. I would say a 60-40 pass run. But we want to be, I'd want to be, to create as much confusion and making the defense feel

as uncomfortable as possible with motions, with formations, with kind of never giving the defensive chance to rest. We do a lot of no-huddle. And again, we would do some things where the speed, the jet sweeps and all those things that would be necessary

for keeping a defense off balance. I think that's what I would want to do. I think that, again, I wouldn't want to be a vertical passing game, but yet and still I want to have the underneath passing game as well. The run game, I think, for me, would be a mixture of a zone scheme with a gap scheme feel. I think that I want to major in the zone scheme. I think it's easier for the back.

I think it's easier for the offensive line because, again, they get to come off the ball. The gap schemes are more intricate in what they want to do with the down blocks and this and that. So we would be multiple in that way as well. As far as, you know, my philosophy, I would build it from the inside first. I would want to build it from the O-line first. Obviously, you'd want to try to get the inside of your, or you want to get your left tackle and take care of your quarterback. We want to build it that way first.

We'd obviously want to get our quarterback. We want to get our runner, and we want to get our receivers. So, you know, it'd be a situation where, again, I want to build it from the inside first. and go from there. I got to say, man, you know, you look at talking about 60-40 passing, vertical pass game, levels concepts, building the O line, all the pre-snap motion. I think we'll tweet out this clip. I think Twitter's going to start petitioning for you to just be offensive coordinator.

You're going to like see a ground swell of support for Gary Brown for offensive coordinator. I appreciate it. I've been around a lot of great coaches, you know, from high school. up. You know, I've been around great offensive coordinators, and I've tried to take as much as I possibly can to try to build my own philosophy. And if I ever get that chance, you know, I think I'd be ready. I'd enjoy having the opportunity to build an offense and just be ready to go. Well, you've got a popularity vote for sure, because a lot of us in media love you. We stay in touch with you. I know your players.

loved you. And I think all of us specifically have been fighting for you and we're so glad that you are fighting for yourself right now. I wish you the best of luck. And I hope that you and I are talking in a couple of months about where you land next. And we hope you'll come on the podcast to talk about it. Absolutely. You know, it'd be the first person to call them. We'll call you first. You're the best. I miss you so much. And thank you for joining us on the show. Absolutely. No proud. Okay, well, thank you so much to Chris Richard and Gary Brown for joining us today. Two really impressive guys and

guys who will no doubt be on sidelines again soon. And guys, you can look forward to seeing out there coach and players soon. And again, all the best and prayers to Gary Brown as he fights this cancer diagnosis and he sounds optimistic. And if anybody's going to fight, we know

it would be Gary Brown. And so we have a lot of optimism there, but certainly lend him your thoughts and your prayers. And as we head into this game with Philadelphia, lend your thoughts and prayers to some of these guys on the Cowboys sideline, because it's been a rough couple weeks, and I think they'd like to sneak out a victory. And it's always good to beat Philly. So hopefully they can get it done. Don't have a ton of optimism, but this is kind of, I think, a teetering point for the Cowboys. Do they continue to pursue the division, or do they pursue a top 10 pick in the NFL draft?

We'll certainly have our answers after this week. And I cannot believe I didn't address this for our listeners that aren't watching us on YouTube. The Black Cat shirt, apropos, as John Moshowed a friend of the show and a writer for the Atlantic pointed out, they truly haven't been the same. It is, I always say that. Why do I always do that?

Because the Atlantic is an outlet, but it's just, it's not the athlete. But even still, it makes sense. But John did have a great note there about that the Black Cat, as much as everybody thought, man, look, this turned it around and they won that game thanks to the Black Cat. Black Cat was a jinks for the Giants. It certainly seems now like the Black Cat was a jinks for Dallas. It is Halloween this weekend ahead of the game. So hopefully they won't give us a fright and his reign of

terror will end. Interesting side note. It sounds like they never quite found that black cat in New York. Oh, that poor cat just running around, you know, leaving probably, you know, litters of kittens all around the stadium to haunt future teams. I did see one on the Katie Trail the other day and I kid you not. I mean, I was hitting my stride and I immediately turned around and I ran back the other way. Maybe he did find his way to Dallas. It does not have to be a black cat. It could be like one of those marmalade cats or like anything else and like I would still turn the other way because cats are mean.

Cats are all piss and vinegar and I don't trust them. I'm just going to say they're smaller domesticated versions of the larger, you know, lion and tiger that would eat you. And so I just, I know that attitude lives within them. So I just don't trust them. And you shouldn't. all partners. Losing weight is better together with Nutrisystem's partner plan. In fact, people who diet together lose 20% more weight than dieting on their own. Get new premium meals with up to

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