The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Slater's Latest on Cowboys Players Calling Out Coaches; Sean Lee Agent Mike McCartney on His Client's Future

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss Jane’s report that players are unhappy with the Cowboys coaching staff. Plus, RJ Ochoa from Blogging the Boys stops by, and NFL agent Mike McCartney talks about his client, Sean Lee. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right, well, I was one of the ones who went on record this year heading into this season, Bobby and said that this was a team that had an embarrassment of riches. When you looked at them on paper, they seemingly had depth. They had a nice mix of picks in the draft this year where they, I'd identified numerous areas, save for really the safety position. And they had, they had, you know, some guys coming back that you thought were really going to finally have the year. And it's quickly gone from embarrassment of riches to an embarrassment.

So this is your fault is what you're telling me. That you got us all worked up and it's, no, I'm just kidding. You know, you know, I will say this has been, I don't think from a talent level. I think, I do think that they have naturally talented football players. I think that you're seeing football players that you know have played better in the past that are not playing up to it now. And it's not just age or anything. It's just they're making some bad mistakes. And so from a macro perspective, not just talent, but you look at all the things that go into a talent and IQ and effort and heart and chemistry and things like that.

This so far through six weeks is one of the worst teams I've seen them field. This is probably around 2010, the team that got Wade Phillips. fired. And it's just it's a little frustrating and curious. And I think everybody today, the players, the coaching staff and probably the Joneses are sitting around going, what is what's the answer here? And it's tough because this is about a year and a half now of going, what is the answer here? Because we were asking this question a lot last year of why is this, why are things playing out the way that they are? And as much as there are injuries at play here, you got some players who just are not playing up to snuff, some veteran.

players who are good football players who you've given big money to who are just not playing at the level they should be. And I know this report that I had today. I expected that it would make the rounds. I don't know. Maybe it was a little naivete on my part that this thing would explode as much as it did because I felt like some of this was a little obvious. Reporting that, you know, at two and four, things were beginning to leak from the locker room.

I'm being told that this is just not a good coaching staff. They don't know how to teach. And that essentially the players aren't buying into this. And I think I'm a little shocked given the fact that, as you and I have discussed on this podcast, the messaging to the players has been, let's keep everything insulated. It's our one competitive advantage. And so I wasn't really hearing a lot. And so when we would talk about, well, why are the Cowboys struggling defensively or offensively?

are, is there a buy-in? We would hear these things that would start being said. You know, it started with Jalen Smith talking about simplifying the playbook, which, if you'll recall, I said, that feels a little disrespectful to a new coaching staff. Whether that's true or not, if I have a new boss that comes in an NFL network and I'm asked, Jane, how do you like the direction of your network? I say, you know, it's going well. I think we're all getting, getting to a point we're getting to know each other.

we're filling each other out. Or let's look at it a little differently, too, because you may, if your boss is asking directly, if Mike McCarthy or Mike Nholland is asking Jalen Smith directly, how do you feel? It's maybe not the worst thing to air out and say, hey, look, this is just what I'm seeing and have that respectful discussion. But you wouldn't go on Twitter or you wouldn't do a podcast interview and say, I really don't think, you know, I think my network boss is. Exactly.

In the public, you say, it's great. If you have any issues, you deal with those in private. And again, I appreciate. is transparency. I appreciate the honesty just from, I think most people, if asked, given a new boss and a new regime, you might wait, maybe at least until the end of the season. And you have a bigger sample size before you say something like that. Then we heard Everson Griffin talking about abandoning the three-point stance. And Mike McCarthy admitting that it looked like they were improvising a little bit out there and they needed to buy in more. And then you've got Daniel Jeremiah.

questioning their effort and guys just giving up. And so take all that in that totality. And I think you and I have been privately saying, I feel like there's a disconnect. I don't know if these guys are buying into this coaching staff. Now, I think it's hard to fully evaluate this coaching staff, given the fact they didn't have their starting quarterback, DEC Prescott in the quarterback room in the virtual OTAs.

He was sort of your natural leader. right. He was away from the facility and he was working out with the guys, but he wasn't in that room to help set the tone with this new staff. Right. Start talking offensive side of the ball. On the defensive side of the ball, what we knew about Rod Marinelli is he really bought into these players as it related to how they played on the field, but also bought into them as men. And so when you've got a new coaching staff, it's hard to buy into guys who are as men,

if you're not seeing them face to face until you get to a contentious training. in camp and then you're just focused on not even preseason games you're focused on playing LA Rams and so I think we we need to really honestly evaluate that that's I think that's one thing to think about and then you get injuries and we're not just talking I mean you lost two starting corners on defense you lost Gerald McCoy early in camp this is supposed to be like the linchpin of your defensive line you lose not only Sean Lee at linebacker but then you lose late in Vandrish within the first quarter of the first game. So again, we're just talking defense.

And I go to the offensive side of the ball. You lose. Blake Jarwin. And then we start losing the offensive line. Your two starting tackles, your center. And then I look at the game last night. And there goes the last guy with any semblance of experience. Zach Martin, now Connor Williams is your most season vet on the line.

I can see how this frustration would set in. and why people might be voiced in discontent today, I guess, but my long-winter way of saying this, Bobby, is the writing's been on the wall for a little bit. Yeah, and I think that what you're seeing here, and this is speculative mostly, I mean, there's nothing we can say to prove it, but I think you are seeing it's funny timing

that last night seemed to be one of their poorest performances and you're starting to see people speak out, like you're starting to hear from people. I don't know that that's a coincidence that as soon as somebody who's as important to the nucleus and the culture there as Dack Prescott has pulled out and removed from it that things get a little, you know, out of control. And, you know, I think that it's just, I think people don't necessarily realize what a

stabilizing factor that he's been. I know we've talked about it before. Randall, you know, you look over the years, a guy like people wouldn't have known last year, Randall Cobb was a big stabilizing factor in that locker. Randall Cobb really looked out for, you know, the culture and how, you know, he did a big part leading in that. And I think people don't know about the Randolph. Randall Cobbs or don't know exactly, they know Dak Prescott's the quarterback and he says the right things,

but they don't understand what type of role he plays to keep everything cohesive. Or, you know, the Sean Lee's, who will talk to Sean Lee's agent here in a few minutes, Mike McCartney, that, you know, what did those guys do to make sure that everything is, you know, on the level and everybody's doing their part and everybody's comfortable with where things are going. And I think when you pull out not just Sean Lee or Dak Prescott or then Randall Cobb leaves or you pull out, you know, Travis Frederick, who is a campaign, captain for a long time and Byron Jones, who's been here for a long time, and then you

blow out an entire coaching staff that had the same messaging for a decade, it's an adjustment period. And I think you're seeing some natural pushback that would come to a group of players that just they're dealing with something new. Whether they're right or wrong, they're dealing with something new and it's different than the culture they've always, you know, had. You know, it's interesting that you point that out because I keep looking at, yes, there are injuries as it relates to this season, but the most damaging injury that they've had in recent years was the loss of Tony Romo. And this was a relatively young team, if you'll recall, back in what, 2016? Yep. And not only do you lose Tony Romo, you lose Kellyn Moore. And then you're looking

down the depth chart and you're like, oh, now we're going to go with this guy we got the fourth round, four-string guy behind Jamil's showers. And even talking to players that were in that locker room then and aren't there now, they talk about the tone. and the culture that he set in such a short amount of time. It was why it was nearly impossible for the Jones family and Jason Garrett. And was it Wade Wilson or Scott Linehan that had a hand in this one or both? Well, I mean both. Wade was the quarterback coach.

Lennahan was the offensive coordinator. They didn't go with the guy that they've had since the early 2000s, who had come back healthy and was a season vet because of the leadership that DAC evoked. that the way that this team rallied around him in adversity. And we saw this time and time again when their backs were against the wall, when you would ask these players about this team, they always said they felt like with DAC they could pull out the win. And yesterday, it felt like the minute that Zeke fumbled that ball

and the defense came out and we'll get into this with RJ Choa from blogging the boys that we're going to have here in a bit. It was as if any optimism from this team sort of, anything that was left sort of escaped. And I think, again, that speaks to questioning whether they actually have the talent and the moxie, but also believing they don't have the coaching staff to put them in a position to get to.

In other words, this coaching staff wasn't the reason they overcame some of these deficits, these double-digit deficits. It was the play. but the players, to be fair, also put them in these situations. Yeah, I mean, and I had, you know that meme where it's like Spider-Man? They're all kind of looking at each other. Yes, exactly.

They're pointing at, yes, it's, yeah, there's a lot of it. Right now it's players and coaches. Yeah, very much. I think there is a shared responsibility here, not just between players and coaches. It's probably one of those three-way little Spider-Man pictures because it's also the Joneses. And I think that the Joneses, you know, that is the one constant that's been here for 25 years during a championship drought. And that, you know, I think that they would.

would have to, and I don't think they'd push back against this necessarily. They wouldn't say they've done everything correctly over 25 years. They know they have some responsibility in how this is gone, but I think everybody's got a big hand in it right now. And it's just not helped that they've been dealt adversity of, you know, all these injuries to big guys and, and, you know, leaders. And I think that it's, it's just starting to catch up to him. And even as bad as the NFC East is, I don't think that this team right now, you could say, should be. the favorite. I don't know that this is a team that you think could just, you know, scrape by and get into the playoffs. I don't see how they would be in any better a position

to win this division than Philadelphia or Washington. I think if Washington got a little bit more consistent quarterback play, they'd easily win the division. But, you know, that's going to be a tough test for them again next week, too, is having to go up against that Redskins defensive line with all the holes on the offensive line. And Andy Dalton's, you know, he got out of some sacks last night, but he's not DAC and he doesn't get the ball out as quick as DAC. And so, I did have one of my favorite notes I found last night, and I know you saw this, is that the Cowboys have been pretty evenly distributed and how they're getting, you know, hit pretty hard on defense. That usually you've got below average pass defense and terrible run defense or below average run defense and terrible past defense. The Cowboys have been pretty equally bad. So I was just curious, like, I wonder how who the last team was that's done this, where the Cowboys have given up 14 touchdown passes and 10 rushing touchdowns through six games. games. And so I was curious, okay, who's the last team that did it? So I looked it up and the last team that did it was the 2005 San Francisco 49ers that were coached by Mike Nolan and had the

offensive coordinator, Mike McCarthy. Not that Mike McCarthy has anything to do about the touchdowns give it up, but two mainstays of that culture in San Francisco that struggled so much in 2005 are here now in Dallas and it's a repeat. And again, I'd love to sit down and have some eliminates with Mike McCarthy and get his sense of like what is truly going on. It is this is a very challenging year in how we collect our intel and our information because we don't have that interaction that we would typically have in a normal year. So it's been hard to sort of make sense about what's going on in there. And just my sense now when you take what we've heard on the record and now what I'm,

I'm hearing today off the record, the reason why I even put it out, because I don't love putting out inflammatory reports like this. It's typically not good for a locker room. It's not good, obviously, for the coaching staff. The way I viewed it was it can't get any more broken. And maybe this forces a come to Jesus that needs to happen during the season. What I can't expect on Wednesday when our podcast comes out and when the Cowboys are back in the building, there'll be a denial. of the reports. There will be a vote of confidence for the coaching staff. I'm never going to name my sources. Those sources are never going to acknowledge what was said. But what was worth and and

bared reporting, in my opinion, was this goes deeper than injuries and effort. This is a lack of a buy-in. And it's early enough and this division is bad enough. that you can write the ship. So again, maybe this prompts a come-to-Jesus meeting. But I thought it important to report that we've been questioning, is there a buy-in? What's the morale in that locker room? And what I reported today was interesting to say the least.

But I think to your point, I think this falls on players. I think this falls on coaches. I think this falls on the Jones family. It's a collaborative effort. of awfulness. To borrow a phrase from Jason Garrett, this has been a collaborative effort from everybody

or a collaborative lack of effort. But, you know, it's funny I was... I think you do bring up a very good point, Bobby. We're seeing a lot of the same guys on the football field this year. And when you look at their performances last year to this year, there is a massive disconnect. I think what's hard is, is it because of COVID? Is it because they weren't able to get into performance centers?

Was it because they didn't have... OTAs, is it because they didn't have preseason games? It is so hard to say this is absolutely the coaches. But what is important is the players, at least at this point, don't buy into these coaches at all right now. Well, and it's tough, like, because of that point, it's tough to then look at it and go, okay, well, you know what? Kevin Stefansky was a brand new coach in Cleveland who's having the same issue,

and he's, you know, making lemonade out of lemons. and Rod Marinelli and the Raiders are getting good pressure right now. And Matt Eberfluse and the Colts, they're getting lots of turnovers. And they're, you know, one of the best defenses in the league. It's just it's tough that goes, okay, when you see coaches that leave and have success elsewhere, or like we saw in the past, players that go elsewhere and have success. Because that was one of the things people always pointed to with Rod Marinelli. We said, well, okay, players are going off.

They're having better success than they had with Rod Marinelli. So when you see both, the coaches and the players leave and start having better success, you go, maybe there is an overall culture issue here that explains why everybody's struggling. Look, I'll never sit here and say Jason Garrett was the best offensive coordinator they ever had. I think what stood out about Jason was his ability to get guys to play for him. In my time covering this team, I never once had a player that was in that locker room tell me they did not buy into him as a coach. a lot of them saw themselves as

depending on what era they were especially this younger group they saw themselves as sort of Jason's kids Jason viewed them as his kids and with the exception of the Tavon Austin comment which was handled and he corrected and he corrected and apologized for

and that was the only time I really saw this locker room sort of go, what is that? Even the players like Des, who grew frustrated with Jason, they patch things up. And so say what you want about Jason. I just, in covering this team, and the reason why I defended him as much as I did last year, as I said, look, these guys play for him, no matter what the situation was. I don't know if it's fair to say guys don't play for Mike. I don't think he's been here long enough to, it takes a while to build that trust to develop that buy-in. Jason, of course, was here as a quarterback. He was sort of part of the organization. You knew that he was Jerry's guy, right? But I just, I never heard a lot of these players,

teammates and players talk about him the way that I've heard people talk about Mike on the way out of Green Bay and his short time here. And again, this criticism doesn't just, just fall on his shoulders. But he told you a couple of weeks ago, this falls at my feet. He hired a lot of these guys that a lot of these players aren't buying into either. And again, I've got to be very vague about what I say. And because, again, you don't want to create problems in the locker room. The purpose of this report was this thing is broken in this way, this early, and that is

concerning because you can't overcome that. No, I think that's. You can try. It's early. But no, and that's the biggest thing. It doesn't matter how much talent you have. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we'll be here. went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have. conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Can't overcome locker room cancer. You can't overcome culture cancer. That's the biggest killer of teams.

Like we've seen that throughout history in any sport is that no matter how talented you are, when there is, you know, chemistry cancer, it's a killer. And, you know, it's terminal. And I think that's the thing that the Cowboys have to. work out right now is what is the diagnosis and right now it doesn't look good but we can continue this conversation we're actually going to bring in uh rj ochoa from blogging the boys now and uh after that we'll talk with mike mccartney the agent for sean lee if you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts i'm here to tell you that one 800 flowers dot com is your ultimate birthday

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If you could find a way... To get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some,

that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. Joining us now is RJ Ochoa, managing editor for blogging the boys.com. You can follow them on Twitter at RJ Ochoa. Bro Cho, how's it going? It's going well.

It's good to be with my friends Bobby and Jane. Certainly wish she was under better circumstances, I think. No, you don't. No, you don't. You love it for your writing. purposes. You're like, oh, yeah, I can, if it bleeds, it leads, you're excited right now. Don't even lie. The chaos is fun. And for that, I owe a huge thank you to Jane, certainly on this fine Monday. It's an interesting time. I'll say that. Let me ask you this. You literally sift through all these

interviews, even more so than I do, because sometimes it is so hard for me to do TV, but also jump on for Stephen and Jerry. There's so many people that talk on this Dallas beat. When you started hearing things from Jalen Smith early into the season talking about simplifying this playbook and Mike McCarthy talking about he needs to do a better job coaching or it falls on his feet or guys are improvising and they don't want this to be a one-call defense. Did this report shock you at all? I don't think so. I think Jalen's quotes are among the more interesting to listen to. And something I've gone back and listened to a lot in the last few weeks is from his introductory

press conference when he signed his long-term extension. And there's a line where he says, I'm a leader. And someday I'm going to be a captain for the Dallas Cowboys. And I've never heard a player be that intentional about speaking about something like that. I certainly don't doubt that it's a goal for people. But that's why what Jalen says is really interesting to me. And so, yeah, I don't find it shocking. I think that there's a lot of,

I think a lot of people try to connect dots in their minds, like who said this and who's thinking that. And Jalen is somebody that is kind of a poster for a lot of the problems right now. And so I think that when you kind of sort of put together the Venn diagram for Jalen specifically, I'm not shocked that this is happening. Even though he is really positive with all of his comments,

they are kind of, you know, they're sort of forthcoming. in an ambiguous way, if that makes sense. And so it makes sense that we're here. Well, and like I said, he is not the only one that it seems has discussed some frustration. I mean, like I said, there's been Everson Griffin that has sort of talked about abandoning what is being asked of him. And we're seeing it on the football field, right?

All you have to do is pop in the tape. And it looks like they're just going with their own instincts as opposed to trusting the process, as Jason Garrett used to talk so much of. And so I think the only thing that that was shocking to me really in the spirit of the report, RJ, was that they're so frustrated this soon. And I think it makes sense that you'd be frustrated given all the injuries. But we've seen them publicly point the finger of themselves, but it sounds like internally they're also pointing the finger to the outside. And as Bobby and I discussed earlier, we're still dealing with very similar personnel from what we saw last year. yes, some of this is effort from the players,

but did they just ask them to do too much too soon in a condensed training camp? And should you have known the limitations of this team and tried to reinvent the will when it made a little bit more sense to do it in the OTAs in the offseason? I think all of that is fair. I think it's really interesting.

I know, Jane, you said in your hit on Monday, you talked about how this team never quit under Jason Garrett. That's something we've all said. Today is, though, one-year anniversary. at least Monday is, or Tuesday, excuse me, of when the Cowboys played the Eagles last year on Sunday night of football after they lost to the Jets. And everybody thought, you know, this is it. This is where the skid really starts. And they beat them 37 to 10. And that was kind of the, yep, told you, Jason Garrett's guys, don't quit on him. And I do think it's interesting. I think Jason Garrett's kind of been in a weird way, a safety net for the Cowboys players because he's always or was always this, well, that's the problem, right?

like Jason Garrett, so he's always the first person that anybody pointed to blame. And I think Dak Prescott was obviously a different sort of not safety net, but sort of hero that came in and saved them. And there's nowhere for anybody to hide. And I think that that makes people uncomfortable. And I think that's why this is also not shocking. And it's predictable in a really unfortunate way that the moment the heat got really turned up and they had to be the ones to put it out.

They kind of started looking inward and pointing fingers, which is a bit troubling. I think it's interesting that when you think back, to last year and the way they talked about their execution issues because there was that big debate for a while of execution versus preparation. Where's your issue? Like what are we, what are we to glean from this? We were all trying to figure out, you know, are you a group of players that are not prepared to go out there or do you have the right preparation and you guys are failing to execute? And the players were really insistent all year last year that this is, you know, this isn't about preparation. This is about us going out there and we're making mistakes. And Jalen specifically

I remember would get very defiant and say these are Sunday mistakes. These are day of mistakes. This is not about Monday through Saturday. And so then it's interesting that a year later, Jaylen's going, yeah, you know, maybe the coaches could simplify things a little bit. And Jane's hearing from players that, you know, they don't really know what they're doing. This isn't just, we never heard this during Jason Garrett's time. This is, we heard the exact opposite during Jason Garrett's time.

And those players would seem to do anything to alleviate responsibility from the coaches and their preparation. and we're seeing kind of the opposite from that right now. And I just wonder, is that growing pains? Is that players just adjusting to a new normal for themselves? And, you know, this is kind of weird. This is like, you know, parents get divorced and we have a new stepdad here or stepmom and, you know, we're getting used to being under them. Or is this just, you know, something where this is, this isn't about in contrast to Garrett,

they're having troubles. This is about they just as a group, regardless of comparing it to Garrett or not, they don't trust Mike McCarthy and they don't trust this coaching staff. I think you equated to divorced parents. To me, I remember when I was a freshman in high school, our English teacher was really rough. And that wasn't something that we were used to in middle school. Like, you know, at that age, like, you just, you don't do anything and you get good grades. And she actually sort of demanded that we read the book and, you know, be accountable in that regard.

And yeah, I know, it was Lord of the Flies. It wasn't a great novel, if I'm being honest. And it feels like that's the case. And I find it fascinating that that Zeke would come out and be super accountable and say, that's on me. And I, you know, say something like I gave them momentum. And I can't think of the last time I heard any Cowboys defensive player be that individually accountable to something.

I know DeMarcos Thorn said they were soft. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fair. I mean, he called them soft. But I think a lot about two last year, I think it was after the Bears loss when I believe it was Mike Garofalo reported that the Cowboys really missed the leadership of Tyrone Crawford and how the young leaders on the team weren't stepping up. And it just, it feels like

Zeke is a young leader. And I know people say, you know, running backs don't matter in the contract. And that's a whole different decision and discussion. But it, that, there's just, there's a disconnect there. Like there had to be a point between one coaching staff and another or something connected them and said, okay, we're going to carry this over. But it just, it kind of feels like they're just saying, man, you know, the way you move the furniture around, that's why this is wrong. And that's why this is messing up. And it feels like that's such an easy thing to point to and blame, even though the problem seems a lot larger than that. You know, guys, I want to walk you back to because some of the stuff begins to sort of trigger my mind is because it has been such a

weird year and it's been such an anomaly. I did find it interesting even before COVID struck that one of the first calls that Mike McCarthy, didn't make was to his quarterback. And remember a lot of these guys talked about, they hadn't really had much contact with him. I believe a lot of them got a call the day of his press conference to come up and meet him. And there were guys that were huge fans of his, Randall Cobb among them.

And then, of course, he was no longer here. I just found it very interesting that we sort of started off the bat with that. And again, I don't want to get into special. specifics of where the frustration lies or where the buy-in isn't or what side of the ball it is, because I think we've got to be careful. As I'd said on the fan earlier today, in the past, it didn't behoove these players to go on record. I mean, think about Alan Hearns when he called out. Alan Hurons, Ryan Switzer, Bryce Butler, Des Bryant, all receivers, by the way.

But, yeah. Alan's mom, too, by the way, Mrs. Hearns. Yes. Right. Remember, I just, I remember pulling Alan aside and being like, why would you have, How does it help you to name check? And so when people are like, you know, put your name on it. It's, you know, it's chicken.

It's anonymous. I get it because you haven't seen the production on the field from the guys either. But I also push back. This is why we have anonymous sources in these particular situations. I mean, we're talking job security and especially in COVID and try to get these guys in given the testing. I mean, a guy could be out of job. And so I certainly don't want to be responsible for that. to me, again, the spirit of the report was,

we don't just have a, players are good enough situation in Dallas. We don't have just a, we don't have enough players because of injury situation in Dallas. We have a guys aren't buying into this coaching staff situation. And I just never heard that with Rod Marinelli, or for that matter, Jason Garrett. As hard as Rod could be on these guys defensively,

RJ, did you ever hear anything? Bobby, you talked to a lot of people. I had a player one time get like teary-eyed and cry when they talked about what Rod Meridelli meant to them. And so, no, I never heard that. I had two players like very emotionally talk about how he would print out pictures of presidents and say what characteristics of those presidents that that particular player embodied. And so it was those little things that his. investments in them away from the field meant a lot. And again, I don't know if that's harder to do given COVID. You know, is that, is it harder in a condensed season? Is it harder not to be able to, you know, have family dinners that you normally would at, in, in Oxnard at training camp? So,

you know, when I got this information, I wanted to make sure where it's not, it's, we have to temper it by saying the spirit of it is that, they've lost the locker room somehow, but could they ever have properly secured it, given some of the factors that went into this season? I think that's a really fair question. I also think, like, you say this and a lot of Cowboys fans say, oh, well, they didn't win anything, like whatever.

But like Jason Garrett presided over an era. I mean, you know, it was a long time. Like, obviously that didn't have the success that anybody would want. But, I mean, you're talking he was the only coach to ever be the head coach of the Cowboys in the history of the star, right? I mean, he was the coach for the majority of the life so far of AT&T Stadium. Like, he's obviously this dude with, you know, these intense ties to the organization. And that is, that, you know, like, is Mike McCarthy?

I mean, again, in a vacuum, is he going to Duke UNC games with guys? Like, can you see that, like, off the top of your head? I also think, you know, and I don't mean this as a demerit against Mike McCarthy, but Jason Garrett's one of the most charismatic people I've ever been around. the the people are laughing at you right now you need to clarify that it's not necessarily like in the press conference setting because people are going to what the hell are you talking about press conference jason is a totally robotic sort of situation but the the best example i have is the the proverb he's told about the i believe it was the buddhist you can correct me if i'm wrong jane and when he told that story when at least when i heard it i was captivated the way he told that story about the bushel of strawberries and everything and That he is, I could, as you could call it, like sports clisher. The team needs to keep their eye on the strawberries. Yeah.

About the lions coming this way, the cliff in front of them. And as they are on the branch, you've got, what was it, the ants that were eating, that were eating the side of the branch. And it was like, the ants eating the branch. The elephants chasing them, I think, and the tigers at the bottom of the pit or something like that. And you just focus on the strawberry. And that's kind of what I feel like he would get these guys, you know, into, into that process.

It was a maddening process. And I know a lot of people sit here and they say, Jane's such a home where it's been so in defense of. I've been in defense of Jason because that's what players have told me. That's the knowledge that I have as it relates to their feelings and their affinity for that particular coach. And again, could Mike McCarthy garner that over time? Absolutely. It was funny.

There's a clip from Pat McAfee's show to. I think it's important that we drop that in our podcast. He was specifically asked about this report. Here's what he had to say. I feel like you and the floor have a much different relationship than you and Big Mike had. And I don't know if you got a chance to watch the games last night. Big Mike is entrenched in battle right now with everybody. There's quotes coming out from the locker room that he's not prepared and they don't trust

them and blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. Would it be difficult to go from the floor to Mike McCarthy? Like the Dallas Cowboys are going from Jason Garrett, who seems to be the clapper, upbeat all the time to Mike McCarthy. If you had to talk, not that you wouldn't speak on their situation because you're not in the locker room, but if you had to go from like LaFlorida McCarthy, do you think that would have been a difficult transition

or no? Look, I don't know. I mean, every coach has their personality. I think at the core there's a lot of similarities between coaches. I think you never want to hear the inside sources or somebody

from the inside or somebody going on not going on the record. These are not anonymous quotes or whatever. You don't ever want any of those things. As far as I know, what the facts are today, they're in first place in a division. First place in any division, regardless of your record, assures you a home playoff game. Yeah. We won a division in 2013 at 8, 7, and 1.

Had to win our last one to get a home playoff game. So, you know, that division obviously has been a little down this year with, I think, Philly's, with one. four and one and the other two teams are one and five, you know, but they still have a lot of games against each other. The long season, obviously losing DAC doesn't help because he was off to one of the greatest starts in history as far as like the amount of yards he was passing for and the efficiency, you know, that tragic injury. But Mike is, he knows how to deal with any type of adversity.

You know, we went through, you know, ups and down at the time, mostly all the time. in Green Bay. But I know Mike knows how to steer those difficult situations, but it doesn't matter who you are, whether it's, you know, somebody talking about a player or a coach, like, you never want those unnamed sources to come out. You know, that anonymous stuff. I think that's some chicken shit. Yeah, it is rat. Hey, don't be a rat. Okay. Let's keep these things internally. And in the report, Jane Slater said, initially the players thought they would keep it internally, but now things are starting to seep out. It's like, oh, very nice of them. for six weeks to decide not to bury their coach publicly.

That's a very interesting world to have. All those anonymous, you can get away with saying whatever, whenever, however, nowadays. It's wild. It's a wild time to be alive, Aaron. It's a wild time to be alive. Six weeks. I mean, that's a culture we've talked about on this show about overreactions. You know, you're six games in.

And you're just one game without your, you know, starting quarterback. So, you know, it takes time to find your identity in any season. You're not going to necessarily find it in six games, whether you're six and oh or, you know, one in five or two and four like they are. So, and you got to, on some level, you've got to trust the process and give a time to work itself out. Now, last year, we had to trust the process. You know, our first six, we're five and one, but it's different, you know, things are different. Schedules are different.

Messaging is different. And you just have to embrace the changes and be comfortable in things that make you feel uncomfortable based on your past. And a lot of, look, the other part is, half the locker room, maybe more than the locker room, it's the first time doing it. So, you know, they don't know anything different. This is just the NFL to them. They haven't been around other coaches or styles. They have in college, but I think you just have to embrace the culture. And that's where the leadership on every team, you know, has the opportunity to lead from the front.

And, you know, I would guess that this week they'll be kind. comments from the leaders that, you know, that clearly talk about the field of the team, just like for us, you know, coming back from a difficult loss, you know, it's important for us to messaging to, like Mike used to always say, listen to your language, you know, how are you talking about yourself, your team, your situation, your culture, because that's going to talk about the character of the football team. And I look forward to hearing, you know, from our guys and and staying positive and realistic about where we're at and where we're going. So I think it's clear that this relationship had its ups and downs.

And again, I would go back to, I appreciate Aaron's sentiments there about the fact that these guys are anonymous sources, but they're also guys that Mike didn't draft. They're also guys that Mike didn't necessarily all sign off on. And Mike could sign off on guys next year. We've seen sort of the power he's wielded at the building. I don't know if I'd name check myself right now. know either. I'm curious and you know, there was kind of a reference a little bit or we're talking a little bit about how this is, you know, new for a lot of guys. Then you mentioned that press conference where

there's some people in attendance and one of them was Randall Cobb. And Randall Cobb obviously went off and signed with Houston. But as we mentioned earlier before this second with RJ, Randall Cobb was a big leader in the locker room and he was a big stabilizing presence for them. I guess I just would kick this over. And this would be speculation. There's no way to know this obviously. But I wonder how different things are and don't come at me with C.D. Lamb, you needed Cid Lim. I'm not talking about not drafting C.D. Lamb. I'm talking about just another hypothetical world. What is it that how much better would it be for Mike McCarthy right now is he's trying to win the locker room if he had an advocate like Randall Cobb, who was as influential as he was in the locker room? I think you can argue that Haha Clinton Dix could have been that guy, you know, in that particular respect. And I think that that's an important thing. And you're right. I think there is no, if you want to call it a Venn diagram, there's no middle, right? Like there is no Venn diagram for the Mike McCarthy way and whatever. And so everybody is used to things being done a certain way.

And like all the things like, you know, the boxing gloves and the hammer, you know, to the players of the weak and things like that. Like I think those things are cheeky or whatever, but they're easier to buy into if they've been the way that things are done the entire time. But if Mike McCarthy comes in and he's, you know, just dropping these. new things and you're this like fourth, fifth year player, you're making you, whatever, you're making on your second contract with the team. It's, it's kind of like whatever. This just, this feels like another stop on the road. And obviously there's a lot of challenges that this

unique season has presented. And I don't think that that's done McCarthy any favors. But I do think, you know, I also thought a lot about recently how Mike McCarthy took accountability for the turnover differential. And I thought a lot about how Jason Garrett handled the Tavon-Aossin thing after the Minnesota game last year. And so I think that there's improvement in that. respect and that's hard to see right now. But, but yeah, I mean, it feels like there are too many fires that can feasibly be put out at one time. And again, speculation here. But should it have been a bad sign to us that bringing in McCarthy wasn't enough to keep Randall Cobb here? The fact, should we have read anything into that at all that he went, I'm going to Houston now?

I'm being serious. He got paid, though. He got paid. I understand he got paid. I just I do think it's interesting that it's, I've thought about that. I've wondered how much it may have helped, especially right now when there's some discontent to have a, I'm just saying they had a second child. All right, fine. I'm just, I was just throw it. But I do think there would have been some value this year for Mike McCarthy to be able to have Randall Cobb here as an advocate who was already respected in the locker room and who had experience with Mike McCarthy. And I've thought about, I wonder how much that's been a detriment to Mike McCarthy. Like, man, it really would have been nice to have him here. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unloat. Others say it's unleashed. Others say it's unleashed. Leaching Human Potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all,

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but then what would you have done with Cooper, Gallup, I mean, does that put Cedric Wilson out? I mean, you're not going to... Well, you would have just ended out picking K-Lavon Chase on, probably if you would have resigned Cobb. And if we had to go back and redo that, I would say C.D. Lamb is like... Sure, sure. You've actually got on the scene right now is what it feels like.

I'm not saying it's anything that they should have done. Like, should have gotten Cobb instead of Lamb. I just think it's interesting. I wonder if McCarthy internally thinks it'd be nice to win this locker room over right now if I had him as an advocate here. Now, see, that is a good point. I think you could get a guy that's seen McCarthy's process and got it to buy into it. I feel like he's going to have to do something with this defense, though, with Mike Nolan,

with Tom Sulla. It feels like blind loyalty right now. And I think that's an area that has to get addressed. And like I said, I'd reported this a couple weeks ago, people that have worked with and played with Mike Nolan in the past, great guy, just not sure if he should be defensive coordinator. Sounds like the all Cowboys head coach. And we remember, we've gone through his record as a defensive coordinator. Well, the whole place will burn down if the Redskins, or sorry, the Washington football team is able to continue that 34 point streak of the Cowboys next week.

So I guess we'll sit by and wait for that. RJ Ochoa is managing editor for blogging the boys.com. You can follow him on Twitter at RJ Ochoa. and listen to all the podcasts over there. RJ, thanks. Appreciate it, man. Thanks a lot for the time, guys. We are as big a fan of yours, RJ, as Good Morning Football and Info Network.

Jane is, I'm not. I'm a huge fan. And we'll get you on next time where I won't talk so much and take that so much of your time, RJ. How's that? I appreciate it, Jane. I also appreciate the content you gave us on Tuesday. I hope that we have some more fun things to talk about, but you guys are killing the podcast game.

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the act. Council. Joining us now is Mike McCartney. He is an agent for priority sports. And he also represents Sean Lee, Cowboys linebacker Sean Lee, as well as co-represents Cowboys Offensive Tackle Lyle Collins. You can follow him on Twitter at Mike McCartney 7. Mike, how you doing? I'm doing great today. How are you guys doing? I'm probably doing better in Chicago. Well, I have to get your thoughts on this report that I put out today. How do you feel about the law? locker room losing faith in the job that you're doing down there.

So I went into character when somebody first brought that to me and said, listen, I've always taught high and tight, high and tight. Running backs have to carry the ball high and tight after the two fumbles. Anyway. Hey, Tiki Barber had to learn that. He had to learn, finger on the ball and, yeah, all that. Right, right. Somebody else might need to learn that today.

Yeah, no, it's, you know, those are always explosive reports, right? And when you have adversity is when things like that come out. And, you know, Dallas is having some adversity right now. And it's probably not the only place in the NFL that's dealing with these kind of things. So those are tough issues for coaches and players to deal with. Now, I was hoping you were going to have a little fun with me there, Mike, because the reason why we brought you on this show mostly is because you were the greatest bit that's going on on Twitter these days during the games.

There are so few highlights amongst Cowboys Twitter as it relates to the Cowboys and how the season is going. And you are hearing all of the collective angst because so many fans keep reaching out to you as if you are head coach Mike McCarthy. There's an important distinction. Your name is Mike McCartney. So have you enjoyed understanding what it's like to be a head coach of a football team, particularly the one that has a star on the helmet?

Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny. My fantasy team, I call, it's called Mike McCarthy for three hours a week. And I need to change that because I'm getting destroyed today, too. It started in Green Bay when Mike was there. And, but it's certainly picked up steam in Dallas. And, you know, you have a decision to make, am I going to get mad at fans? Am I going to, you know, respond in kind? I just figure, let's just have a little fun and a little levity. You know, Twitter's a tough place to be on. game day. You know, my favorite, one of the bits on the evening talk shows is the read the mean tweets. Do you have a feud that you could just read for us that happened during the game yesterday? I mean, I don't have my Twitter, I guess, in front of me. I have so many responses. Literally, minutes before you called, though, if I could find this, I'm still getting killed, like I said. I'm going to see if I can't find. How personal is it? Is it just like, man, you suck?

Or is it like, you know, because I know Travis Frederick recently, he's been retired for a little bit now. But I guess when Tristan Hill had that controversy of rolling up on, I think it was Chris Carson in Seattle, then there was a lot of people saying that was a dirty play. And I guess Seahawks fans not knowing who it was, just were Googling who Dallas Cowboys number 72. And they were getting Travis Frederick back. And so I know Travis Frederick said in an interview recently that he was getting like, I hope your children die and people just like hurled the stuff

and they're like, that was not me. I've been retired for a year now, wrong side of the ball. Does it get really nasty or is it just general like, man, you suck. You should be fired. Oh, no, it gets nasty. Somebody said to fire my fat, you know what last night.

Which I love that you zinged back. Come on, man. At least spell it right. P-H-A-T. He responds, shouldn't you be coaching and not tweeting, just asking, writes back. I'm very adept doing two things at once, Jim.

And then my favorite from today is, hey, coach, seems like you're losing control down there. Players calling you out. You respond. You got bad info, Charles. I'm actually up in my office. And none of my players have called me out today. Get your facts, train. And have a great day.

So if you too don't have Mike McCarthy's handle and just want to get your angst out, Mike is seemingly taking it for you at Mike McCartney, 7. Right, right. spell it right. I had a good friend that you know well, Jane, from NFL Network, just text me. He says, I think you need to change your picture to a picture of you and Mike. He said, that would really throw people. Yes. Yeah. Now, have you gotten a chance to talk with him and share with him? Like, man, you got to, like, you got to pick it up because I, my mental health can't take this on Twitter much longer. I have not since he got to Dallas, but a few years ago,

AJ Hawke's wife threw him a surprise retirement party in Columbus, Ohio, and Mike showed up. as the coach of the Packers. So I went up to him, and I have known Mike for years. And I said, hey, I don't know if you know this, but a lot of people think I'm you on Twitter. And he kind of looked at me like, what are you talking about? So I didn't really pursue it at the time. And again, in Green Bay, it was kind of bad.

It's nothing like Dallas. Yeah, Mike doesn't strike me as a guy that sits in his bedroom at night before he goes to bed and peruses what is, being said about him on Twitter. He just doesn't strike me as one of those coaches that would even care to go there or, for that matter, even have a ghost handle. We do know that there, you know, Kevin Durant, of course, had his ghost account, but Mike McCarthy doesn't seem like he cares.

I will say, and I, like, generally nobody's ever wanted to, like, say who or where, but, you know, I have heard from several folks that they'll say, oh, yeah, like, most, like, assistant coaches or scouts or other people around the NFL, they do have, like, you know, like accounts that they browse from that are not there. So I know that's a common thing, but yeah, I don't know that Mike McCarthy is necessarily a part of that. I don't know that he's got a ghost account that he would search from. But, you know, with all that, the talk of, you know, Jane's report and things like that and things seemingly looking rough for Dallas in terms of culture and things like that. How much do you think your client, a guy, you know El Shanley, how much do you think that

that team right now is just missing, not necessarily just even his play on the field, but his football IQ and his leadership ability to kind of cultivate, you know, a stronger bond amongst those players right now? Yeah, I'm sure they're missing Sean a lot. You know, Sean brings unbelievable experience, his ability to watch tape and see things before they happen on a football field, you know, goes a long way. But just the leadership and pushing guys, I think a lot of times with a new staff, getting on the same page can be difficult at times. And I think we're seeing that a little bit with the defense and having a veteran like Sean, a glue guy right in the middle there would be really beneficial, I would think. Let me ask you this, because unfortunately, the knock on Sean

for years has been he can't stay healthy. And you know him incredibly well. One of the more visual things I think that stood out for me was all or nothing. You see him on New Year's Eve, going through the tape after yet another disappointing season. One of my favorite stories was a few years ago, he and his wife will stay in Santa Barbara during the off season, but he flies all the way home, which is, it's just 45 minutes from Oxnard Training Camp, flies all the way home to board the Cowboys plane and fly back with his teammates. A lot of players will just meet you in California. What other examples of Sean are there that maybe the fans don't see, and unfortunately, that narrative of him not being able to stay healthy is what permeates as it relates to Sean.

I think Sean takes great interest in his teammates. A lot of times we'll talk about a player that's either struggling or doing some great things. And I'll often wonder, well, when I do this with a lot of my players, do they even know if it's, especially if it's a guy on the other side of the ball. Sean always has a strong opinion. He seemingly has always talked to a player. I made a comment about the receiver room and it just seems like it's a really good room. and, you know, he said to me, Mike, we got a great receiver room. And he goes into depth about how each player and what the strengths are,

personality-wise, football-wise, and he's very, very in tune. And I think, you know, he genuinely cares about his teammates. That's why he would show up and travel with them, right? And so we're never going to know all the little things he's doing off the field because he's not going to, I mean, Sean's done so many things for other people off the field. And I find out a year or two later, and I'm like, Dude, can't we like share that? And he's just, he's not that kind of guy.

He's a one-on-one guy that genuinely cares about guys in that locker room wherever they are, whether they're starters, backups, whether they're offense, defense, it doesn't matter. And I think that's special. It's so funny you say that because I remember when Layton Van derrish came here as a rookie. And of course, Sean got hurt that year and there was the transition. I wanted to do this sit-down piece with him where the student becomes the teacher. And I think Sean felt uncomfortable about it because the spotlight. was going to be on him.

And he was so focused on making sure that that Leighton was developing and that he wasn't hindering that. And then, of course, we saw last year him step into that role and how much they needed him. They're on defense and being a captain and being a leader. And then you see this year, and it's hard watching him at practice, Mike, honestly, seeing him back there on the resistance courts because you know that this team could certainly use him.

Because to your point, I actually heard this amazing story about Sean Lee. as it related to one of his teammates a few years back, I'm not at liberty to share that. But I said to this particular player, I said, I cannot wait to you and come on a podcast with me one day and share that story because it's so interesting and it just speaks to how much he cares about his teammates

that I think there's going to be a lot of those stories when he announces his retirement at some point someday that are going to come out about Sean Lee that a lot of us have never heard about because he doesn't want people to know about them. He's a very private person. Yeah, he's private. And just like you said, he'd rather have the spotlight be on his team, his teammate, you know.

So I went to his wedding a few years ago. And, you know, through the years, I've been to a lot of player weddings. And sometimes maybe they don't invite a lot of teammates. Sometimes maybe they do and guys don't show. Sean had a lot of teammates there. He had a lot of teammates from Penn State. And he had a lot of teammates from the Cowboys. And, you know, the biggest names in the team were there.

That says something. When a guy is willing to, you know, take an afternoon off and go see a teammate of his get married, they don't always do that. So, yeah, there's, he's a special guy. I love Sean. I love talking to him. I hate the fact that he's missed so many games from injury. I know it bothers him because he wants to be out there helping his team win. And I still think, though, when he's healthy, he's got something to him.

You know, he ended strong last year. And we just got to get him through this, you know, this period now in the next couple weeks. And, you know, as I keep saying, if you're going to miss any time, let's miss the first part of the season. And hopefully there is a stretch run. And in the NFC, I think they still call it the East as opposed to the least. There's a chance here. So he's got a chance, you know, he's got his opportunity to make his mark on his team. There was a lot of speculation, I think, from people, not that necessarily any of it was founded.

It was just, I think a lot of people running, you know, I wonder if it's getting close to time for Sean Lee to hang things up. and he did come back. He's obviously dealt with this injury. How much, to your knowledge and to what you can share, how much of a question do you think that was for him this off season was, do I come back and play some more, or was he teetering at all? Or do you think he was always just, no, I'm ready. I'm coming back for 2020. That's not even in my head yet. I think he handled it perfectly. We talked when the season ended. And, you know, it's really easy to make emotional decisions when you're physically beat up, when you're mentally beat up. and there's not an NFL player come early January that's not physically and mentally beat up.

I don't care if you win or lose. It's a grind of a season. So when we talked, he said, I'm going to travel with my wife and I'm not going to think about football. And I'll make my decision when I got back. And that's absolutely the right way to do it. And I think when he was on his trip, you know, at one point he was like, there's no way I'm not playing football again. I love this game too much. And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what happens this next.

off season. I, you know, if he's healthy, hasn't happened a lot. But when he's healthy, he still plays at a high level. And he's so smart. I think the cowboys with all their struggles on defense can, I'm hoping they really find a role for him where, you know, his intelligence, his ability to read defense or offenses and anticipate what's going on before it happens, you know, there's a spot for him to showcase all that.

And his loyalty, I think is one thing that stood out. there was an NFC team that intimated to me a few years back when Layton was obviously shining here in Dallas, that if he ever decided that he was done with Dallas or Dallas side apart ways, they were going to come after him. And I remember as that information sort of got out, the Cowboys immediately were able to work something out with him. And as it was described to us, and what I respect the most about you, Mike, is like you are very protective of your client.

So I'm not going to ask you to tell us what that contract was. But it is my understanding that he gave them a hometown discount, obviously, to stay in Dallas. And it sort of speaks for his love for this team. Yeah, it's, you know, as an agent, what's most fun is when you can go to free agency and you can have several teams, you know, after your player and see what their real value is, not the value you decide upon before the market can, before you can get to the market. So, you know, in Sean's case, I just knew it would be, it would just going to be really difficult for him to leave Dallas. He's, you know, he's got a special relationship in that locker room.

I think he's got a special affinity for the Jones family. You know, he's Dallas Cowboys through and through. And I think, you know, even though you go to free agency and there are some teams that are attractive, at the same point, you can't help but think, okay, when I'm 40, 50, 60 years old, to be able to say I've played my whole career at the Dallas Cowboys. boys. There's not a whole lot of guys that play to his level that can say that. I think that's going to be really meaningful for him for years to come. Do you think that whenever it is, he does decide to make that call to hang it up? You talk about his love for the game and his high IQ and things like that. Do you think it's a natural transition for him to just say, hey, maybe I want to go

explore coaching? Or do you think when he decides to retire, he's going to take some time away or maybe just not even get back into football post retirement? What do you think he has a pro? will be when he's finally done playing. Yeah, we've talked about that. He has to coach, right? I mean, he's just too smart. He's got... He's already kind of coaching.

Yeah, and so, you know, what level is it? Is it high school or the other, you know, two professional levels, college and pro football? I don't know. I personally think, you know, a Sean Lee at the high school level, not only making a difference in the players on the field, but off the field, he's got so much to offer.

you know, for our youth, our 16, 17, 17, 8-year-old kids to be able to spend a couple years with Sean, not only is he going to prepare him potentially to play in college, he's going to prepare him for life. I have a brother that coaches high school football. You know, it's a huge job, I think, a really important job. And I can see Sean completely flourishing. One of my clients, Josh McCown has been doing that a little bit off and on the last couple of years. And he loves making a difference in those kids' lives. and I think Sean will be exactly the same.

We see guys like John Ketna, Bobby, who really appreciate high school coaching for that same reason, saying that they really want to buy in to these younger guys and make a difference for them. So without getting in, again, to specifics, because I know that that is something you're very guarded with, can we expect to see Sean Lee at some point this season? How at least has his recovery been going?

Yeah, I think Sean's progressing well. And, you know, he's got a, once they start his practice window, he gets three weeks to get ready in practice and hoping that sooner than later. But there have been no setbacks. I think he's, you know, the pain is subsided. So he's in a good place. And, you know, hopefully it's just a, you know, a matter of time here. But, you know, my hope is when we get to November, you know, we're going to see the full Sean Lee at 100%. and making plays and anticipating things and beating offensive linemen to the play. You know, that's what he's been doing for years. You know, Jane, the way you can really tell that he's Mike McCartney and not Mike McCarthy

is because he actually gave an answer about how a player is progressing back from an injury. So, you know, that's how that right there. If you had any question, that's how you know he's not Mike McCarthy. Yeah, so don't rip me on Twitter as a result. Well, Mike, I didn't want to take too much of your time today. I just, as I was glancing on the Twitter, Twitter timeline again last night. I found you to be yet one of the small, bright spots as it related to this team and the feedback that it's come with it lately. I didn't want to take up too

much of your time today. Thank you for popping on our show. And again, fans, you can have fun with him at Mike McCartney, not McCarthy, Stevin. Well, thanks, guys. It's been great visiting with you. Have a great day. Enjoy Dallas on a Tuesday after Monday football. All right. Well, thank you so much to RJ Ochoa and Mike McCartner. Martin for joining us today. Lots out there to discuss right now with Jane's report and a lot more for us to discuss later this week. We'll be talking to J.P. Finley about this game coming up with the Redskins. Man, I got to stop that.

I keep saying Redskins. The Washington football team with WFT. We'll talk to J.P. Finley later this week from NBC Sports Washington. He's always got a good beat on things. And we'll look to sort this out a little bit more and hopefully have some more answers for you by Friday. Until then, we'll talk to you next time. Thunderstruck adjective. Shocked and amazed by the power of fun on Carnival.

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