The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 'Boys and Girl - Washington Loss Reaction, Bleak Season Outlook, Big Picture with The Athletic's Jon Machota

Episode Date: October 27, 2020

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby welcome Jon Machota from The Athletic to sort through the rubble of Dallas’ loss to Washington. What is the long-term outlook for the Cowboys, and what can be salvaged from this seemingly lost season? The three will have an in-depth breakdown. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

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For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in.

That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hello, boys and girls. Welcome in to the Boys and Girl podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and NFL network producer Bobby Belt, a Cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, coming straight to you from the Lone Star State, here's Jane and Bobby. Well, hey, Bobby, we could spend a lot of time sort of breaking down the Redskins game, but I think we should just have this cathartic session with one of our good friends,

Jamachota, over at the Atlantic. The Atlantic. sort of, let's just sort of, let's spit ball and see what we can come up with because I think beat riders and those of us that have covered this team whereas as confused as fans. Joining us now is John Moshota. He covers the Cowboys for the Athletic.

You can follow him on Twitter at John Moshota. That's M-A-C-H-O-T-A. And fun fact that I always love bringing up. And I feel like people don't, you know, there has to be a new introduction to it every so often. And we haven't talked to John in, you know, probably like 10 months. months or so. And so I also like to point out that he is godfather to the children of Denzel

Washington and that they are lifelong friends and there's photographic evidence for it. John, how you doing? I'm good. It's funny you bring that up because I was just telling a friend the other day about how basically my favorite things about covering the Cowboys have all been taken away this year. And one of them, the number one thing for me is going to training camp and for so many reasons. And so you got that's taken away. We don't get to talk to Jerry Jones after games. We don't get locker room access. They're just a lot of my favorite things I'm hoping to eventually come back in the near future. Can't take pictures at practice. Oh my God. How did I forget about that, Jane? That's the killer. There you go. Absolutely. That's the, I got to say though, I know John,

you used to get the, the bizarre thing where even though it was Denzel Washington in your profile picture, people thought you were Denzel in the picture. And for the long time, we're like, oh, John, I just, you know, John's white. I had no idea. That's, that's, there's a guy just like that. He covers, I'll say he covers. He's like a longhorn super fan, Chris Bennett. And he had 50 cents picture up for forever. And I don't think I ever looked at it that it was 50 cent, but I was shocked when he introduced himself once.

And I was like, wait, I'm confused, Chris. Yeah. No, no. And so that's the thing that I don't get is that for the longest time, John, I know you may remember Jane. I don't know if you do. Helman's profile picture, David Helman from Dallas Cowboys.com was Mike Nolan, like him, or not Mike Nolan, him next to Mike Tomlin.

Oh, that's right. And no one ever made that confusion. and they always knew Dave was the one in the background and he was kind of like behind him. And so I never understood how you kind of being in the center of the shot were somehow Denzel Washington. But it just goes to show how I guess, you know, just naturally people assume like you're just a suave, attractive guy.

And so they just would have assumed like, oh, that's got to be John Moshota. No, I'm just not famous. Can you just talk about Helman's sort of fanboy ask with you? And well, it's Bobby's obsession with you and David Helman. Sometimes it makes me a little uncomfortable. No, okay, James give me crap for this. Very much the character from you. I troll Dave and I troll John, but I troll them in very specific ways.

I troll John by referencing nine whenever I could, which always just kind of gives me chills. And, you know, like there's sorts of, I've got internal screaming. Don't think I've noticed that screaming has nine letters in it, which is just like the god Tony Romo. And so I just like to make those references for John. and then with Helman, it's just, I try and get under his skin. I'm just irritating, that's all. It just basically comes down to that. Who can I irritate?

You don't irritate me. I think it's funny because what you're doing is you're just drawing people offside and Cowboys fans. And I get that you're doing it. And even a lot of them get that you're doing it now to this point. But then there's still a few out there that think that the best is when you hook in somebody from the media as we won't, let's not name any names about. You say someone. You know who we're talking.

We're not naming any names. But it's best when you hook somebody else. to think that you're being serious. And then that makes it the most fun. Well, that was like, it is funny how clue with some people are. This is not a shot at one Nick Eatman. But there was a parody account last year that put out something in regards to Dax's arm. Remember that?

And Nick came up to me in the locker and was like, I can't believe you put that out. I was like, Nick, that's a parody account. I didn't put that out. So you've got to be careful on Twitter. Speaking of Twitter, I know we had a little bit of fun with this, John, and it's hard to have fun these days as it relates to the Cowboys team. You know, I sort of miss cracking up to your point with Dak in the locker room. And, you know, even Travis Frederick was entertaining.

And DeMarcus Lawrence, when he would give us some of these quips. Like, it was fun in games for a while. It hasn't really been that until today. Mike Nolan, to pull the curtain back a little bit for the listeners, when we do these calls, it is some markets, you'll have like what they call, like a WebEx or they have team meetings. And so you see like Mike Vrable, like the reporters see Mike Vrable on the other side. Titans are one of the other teams that I cover. Sean Payton, you see Sean on the other side.

When we do these calls on Monday and throughout the week, we don't see Mike McCarthy or Mike Nolan or Kellan more on the other side. They'll later release the video because they're staring into a camera, but we don't see them. So imagine all of us on this call today. And I think a lot of us asked a lot of questions of Mike Nolan because I think a lot of us, like the fans have questions. And mid question, it was Jory that was asking it from USA Today. He literally says, I've got something on my finger. And then there was like this weird. Did he say it was Tabasco sauce at that point?

And then he just walks away from the call. And so again, we're not seeing any of this. We're just all this awkward pause. No one tells us what's going on behind the scenes. We're side texting each other going, what is happening? And then I sort of cut through it that moment and said, did he say to Baskin sauce in his eye? And then he comes back and we don't really address it until later. Well, yeah, it's just funny.

I don't know if it's that funny if it's a normal season, but because things have been just so bad for the cowboys, that takes it from being funny, ha, ha, ha, amongst the. reporters to let's put this on Twitter and see where it goes on there. And then all of a sudden, like other people are picking up on it because people know how much of a train wrecked, the Dallas Cowboys have been this season. And that adds to it. And particularly on defense and Mike Nolan's in charge of the defense. But yeah, the important point there is that we can't see him.

So we don't know that he walked away from the table. We don't know if he's joking. We don't know where he's at. We don't know if that's the end of the conference call and we need to go on with our day. Like there's nothing being told of us. So you're just sitting around like, was he being serious? is a joke. Do you just not want to talk to us anymore? But. Well, and that, and to read a couple of just, we'll move off of this because I don't want to, like, literally dwell on this too much.

But Field Yates, the most heat the Cowboys have brought on defense all season. Mike Leslie, the Cowboys defense has finally made a stop. It's so bad. Michael Galkin, not the type of fire the defense is seeking. Yes, it sort of writes itself. But, you know, you bring up an interesting point, though, John, because. You don't know if this guy is joking. And we don't know a lot about this staff because we haven't been able to spend time with them.

And they haven't been able to endear themselves to us and vice versa. And I also think that's been a problem for this football team. There hasn't been enough time for them to endear themselves as it relates to who they are as coaches and what they're trying to accomplish. And that was really the spirit of my reporting last week was whether these players are right or wrong, they're not sold. And that's a problem. I think that's a real problem for your football team.

When six games is in the season, that was the feeling. Yeah, the first few weeks, I'm fine with the COVID excuses. I'm fine even with the injury excuses. I'm fine with the no preseason excuses. These last two weeks, though, stop with that. I mean, that that's, that there gets to a point where you're just playing, it's embarrassing and that you're not even putting forth an effort that is of quality for a professional football player.

And the part that kind of annoys me is that the excuses we're getting right now, I don't know that they go away. Like I feel like today, Stephen Jones was on 1053 The Fan, and he talked about a lot of those things. And I just, there was a part of me that when I was listening to that, and I was like, I think I'm going to be hearing this in February and March and April. And if it keeps going this way, you can't use those as excuses because, it shouldn't be this bad.

I'm sorry, I don't care how many injuries you have. It should not be as bad as it's been these last couple of weeks. Just the way they're, I mean, you can't even point to anything that's a positive. And then the lows are so low that they're historically low and they're heading an even more historic. I mean, the way they're just giving up 200 yards to plus to these teams rushing, you can't even win games.

I don't need to know anything else about the rest of the game. If you can't stop the team running and you're just going to let them run up the middle like that, that's so bad. And you know what's the, worst part for the Cowboys. And this could be a good thing for fans that want to stick it to Jerry Jones is that Jerry Jones said many of times. The thing that he hates the most is apathy. He wants people to be interested at all the times, good or bad. And what we're getting right now is it's going to get down, we're going down a street of for the rest of this season. Yeah,

you know, the Cowboys are going to be on some primetime game still, but you're going to see the ratings go down. People are losing interest. Like there is nothing right now to be interested in, in the Cowboys unless there's just this, you know, firing of the coaching staff that I I just don't see happening right now. I thought it was another interesting statement that was made. I think it was Mike McCarthy when he essentially said some of these guys weren't taking advantage of their playing time. Yeah.

I mean, and it's funny because you kind of see it going back and forth, obviously, with your report coming from the players. And then you see it from the coaching staff too kind of going back. The way Mike McCarthy talked after the game about how the players responded to John Bostick's hit on Andy Dalton. you just don't normally hear that from coaches. And so that was telling in its own right, last Friday when we got a chance to talk to Mike Nolan,

the way he described the defense and comparing it to we're playing things on defense that are similar to what a lot of high schools are playing on defense. I mean, these are shots that are being fired, no matter how you want to look at it. That's not going to sit well. So what you're seeing is, and I know there's only little examples here and there,

but it's pretty clear that the players aren't happy with the coaches, and the coaches are sitting there and they're like, wait, you guys aren't going to take. take any blame for this? Like, what are you guys doing? Like, we can only coach you so much. And then on Sundays, you have to go on the grass and play against that other football team. What are you guys doing once you're out there? So it's ugly. And here's the thing. Like, I don't know where it gets better. Like, where all of a sudden is this going to get better? Like, once it goes into the off season? He's going to need, I think Mike, in order for this

thing to work. And I think we're beginning to see a little bit of this happening. You know, you've heard the report Ian Rappaport put today that Everson Griffin was getting shopped around. I wouldn't be surprised, John, if we see a little bit more of that. Because I think that if you're going to get this locker room back, you've got to send a stronger message. You've got to show that you're in control. You know, we talked accountability has been a problem for this team in the past. You know, we talked about this a little bit last year with some of the defensive leadership problems. I don't think that's gone away.

I think it's gotten worse. And I think some of them have played into the reason why things aren't going well as far. is the coaches. I think some of them need to look in the mirror, but there has been a disconnect in there. Maybe it's going to take Mike McCarthy bringing up some of his younger guys, like, instilling confidence in good faith in like, you know, the fact that I'm not saying Joe Looney is a problem at all. But even saying that, you know, Tyler did such a good job at center just because Joe Looney is healthy, doesn't mean, you know, it's like you're creating a little bit of a competition. I think he's going to have to do that a couple of these positions. And maybe that's what we start

seeing. We start seeing more of these younger guys play, maybe benching, some of the veterans maybe start looking towards next year. That seems to be the only way to sort of turn the page. I don't know if that helps your locker room chemistry, but it helps turn the page moving forward. I think that helps to a certain extent. But what happens when part of the problem are players that have gotten recent new contracts that you can't do that to,

that you can't sit down because you can't lose those guys and you need those guys to be key parts on this team? I mean, there's no secret. You can go down the list. follow the money. Who's gotten paid recently and who's played well out of that group that's gotten paid recently? That's a part that you really struggle with because, you know, if you're a new head coach and you're taking over a college football program, there is a, you know what? You're a good player.

We probably could use you, but you're not really fitting into what we do. You probably want to go look into that transfer portal or maybe entering the draft. We're going to go in another direction. We're going to look for transfers. We're going to look at playing some of our young recruits. But in the NFL, it's got that contractual side. And when you have guys making a lot of money that you can't just say, yeah, let's just trade that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark, Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. A guy, well, you don't know that another team

will even give you anything for that guy because of the contract that he just got recently. And I think that there's several players in this team that Mike McCarthy has to be careful about that he can't be necessarily sitting those guys and trying to send a message because those guys are going to be here next year, and probably the year after that,

and maybe even longer than Mike McCarthy is the head coach of the team. And so you got to be real careful about how you maneuver that, but I agree with you. You know, the Bradley and I's, the Dorrance Armstrongs, heck, Reggie Robinson. I agree with you completely. Play these younger guys. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,

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And our family bonds grow too. because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. John, how I'm trying to remember, how long have you been covering the Cowboys, even like part-time doing some desk stuff?

How long has that been? 2011. So the 11 team, so you went through three, straight eight and eights, the 12 and 4 Romo team, then the four and 12 without them, then the whole DAC era, is this the worst Cowboys team you've seen them field? Even short of just, even before all these injuries started stacking up, even let's say through three or four weeks when they still had a couple players left, it was this just the worst team you had seen them feel, at least from, you know, an effort or an IQ standpoint?

You know, I won't say that from the way the season started, because for me, the, the barometer for all this is going to be the four and 12 year. Okay. And so, you know, Romo got hurt and they, I just see a lot of similarities with that year. So I don't know that I can say it's completely, it's worse than that year. For one, like I tweeted this earlier today,

I think it's been really interesting how the Cowboys have went out of their way since 2015 to add another pass rusher to the mix, a proven veteran pass rusher. And the results have been terrible. And so 2015, they had Greg Hardy. They went two and 12 in those games with Greg Hardy. So if you add up what they've done with Greg Hardy on the field, Michael Bennett, Robert Quinn, Alden Smith, and Everson Griffin,

they're 10 and 25 in those games. And you would think, hey, that's a major position. Like this should improve this team. And so because of that and because things, I mean, Greg Hardy, you know, say whatever you want about him as a person. Obviously, there's a lot you can criticize there off the field. But as a player, you were like, hey, this is guy that and get to the quarterback. And that season was just so bad.

And this season reminds me a lot of that. And you didn't think it would be that way. You thought, hey, when they went and got Alden Smith and Everson Griffin to add with what they have with Lawrence and then the possibility of a Randy Gregory coming back, you're like, at least they're going to have a good pass rush. And they haven't even had that. So to answer your question, I can't say it's the worst, but it's, it's fighting. It's fighting the 2015 season. And it's got a chance to be worse than that for sure. You know what I wonder, guys just thinking out loud here, they've been very careful about the free agents that they've added to the mix.

And it's what drove fans crazy for a while. Well, then they started going. and getting these free agents and people got excited about them. But maybe the best policy for this organization was to continue just the homegrown talent. Like as much as you knock them for it, what I do think,

the more I kind of like talk to people that have joined this organization, either as players or coaches, is it a sure nice here. They sure take care of you. It's sure cushy. And I just wonder if there's a disconnect even in that respect

where guys just aren't used to that. You know, we hear about when the Cowboys players go somewhere else, how it doesn't work, right? Like, very few of them have been successful after they've left Dallas. I wonder if... Which ones?

Which ones? Because I think that's... Sure, I think that was... Demarcus Square is kind of an outlier. I think at one time, that was a thing. I think in the last three years, though, that started transforming a little bit. Can't really say Byron Jones

because he got injured. Right. I know you're thinking of you're thinking Cole Beasley. Well, I'm thinking Cole Beasley. I'm thinking Ron Leary. I'm thinking about how Benson Mayoa, who struggled to get on the field here, all of a sudden went somewhere else, started performing. Jihad Ward, who they cut in training camp, went out, started performing elsewhere.

I think that they have, maybe with some of their bigger name players, that is a thing. Guys, they walk up, but I do think they. So you're missing my point on this. What I'm saying is guys that are used to the culture here and that have been around for a while, don't do as well when they go somewhere else because I think they're so used to the culture that has been the Dallas Cowboys. In other words, how sort of cushy it is. And a lot of them sort of, they don't stick around in the league much longer.

You know, my point in bringing that up was not so much the younger guys that we've seen here and that have gone somewhere else. And there are a couple of veteran outliers. But I would say guys towards the end that spent most of their career in Dallas, they don't really do too well. Maybe that's not a great comparison because they're on the tail end of their career anyways. But it's just, I just feel like, it's like once you're used to living comfortably, you don't want to live uncomfortably somewhere else.

And maybe when these guys are used to living not as comfortable somewhere else, they come into this locker room and they're like, what is this? Oh, I don't think there's any question about it. I think you're dead on with that. And in a sense of, hey, everybody's different. You might handle it different than the next guy. But I don't think that there's any question that everything about the Dallas of Cowboys experience is different than any other team.

You know, I mean, from the owner in GM and how open and public they are with the media and just how much you see them around. I mean, just to the, down to the, and I know they're not doing it this year, but in the previous years, just the being in the fishbowl of like, no, we're all throughout practice week, we're going to have tours coming in and out of here. Like people are just going to be walking by and just watching you work out and do things like that, having these huge buildings being built around your practice facility to see, to see things in your running back group that they use as tools in running back drills being

blown over the practice facility because the owner is landing his helicopter on the practice fields. There's no question that it, that is different. And you know what? It's just like anything else. It's probably not for anybody or everybody, but you've got to find the guys that it is for. And that's the problem with the cowboys that they haven't been able to do that because the

thing is a lot people like to point back to the 90s cowboys. But I think the 90s cowboys didn't have it quite like these cowboys do. Practicing at Valley Ranch, training camp was a lot different than this. Jimmy Johnson was different. salary cap wasn't as restrictive. For sure. For sure. So there's a lot of differences with that.

But I also as being an outsider, being somebody that's originally from Detroit that grew up watching the lions. And I see this. There is a part of me that's like, how come this team doesn't win more? Like when it's like the lions are bad, I'm just like, yeah, I kind of get it. Like I understand what's going on here. But the cowboys have all the resources to be successful. So I understand why people will just point the finger back at Jerry and be like, yeah, you have the most wealthy sports franchise in the world.

But at the same time, it also might not be the best thing for playing the best football on Sundays. Because maybe things are just a little too comfortable around here. Well, and to that point where you said not everybody is built to handle the sideshow and what it is and everything like that. And we talk about that in the context of players a lot. That's one thing that I've kind of been asking myself. And I think Jane and I've even talked about this on a couple of podcasts recently. but I'm curious for your thoughts on this. Do you think there's a chance that that's what we're running into here with Mike McCarthy,

is that Mike McCarthy didn't quite understand what being head coach of the Dallas Cowboys meant? Oh, I'm sure there's some of that. No, of course. I couldn't say that. To the detriment of the job that he's doing then. I'll add that caveat. Do you think that it's causing issues and executing what he wants to do? Yeah, probably to a certain extent.

I think he wants more of a, you know, I mean, he's a guy. He's from Pittsburgh. you know, he coached in Green Bay. It's a little bit different than it is in Dallas. And so, yeah, I think that he's probably going through a transition period where he didn't think it was going to be quite like it was. I find it hard to believe that he thought there were going to be these growing pains early on.

I felt like he took this job. He kept Kellyn Moore, brought on a veteran staff because he was like, oh, we're going to build on what they did these last few years. I mean, heck, we're in a year right now. Remember, the Cowboys trend is. 2014, make the playoffs, 2015 fall apart, 2016 playoffs, 2017 fall apart, 2018 playoffs, 2019 fall apart. This is supposed to be the playoff year on that trend.

It's just interesting to hear him talking about more of the looking forward and how things need to change. And it sounds like a rebuild, even though he won't say that. It sounds like that. And that certainly wasn't what we were expecting when he took the job over. If that was the plan, then that's where you think, well, why wouldn't you go with a Lincoln, Riley. Why wouldn't you go with maybe a college coach? But, you know, Jerry Jones, he wants them, he needs them to win right now. This team's built to win right now, at least we thought. And I don't

think Mike McCarthy is seeing that as a team that's built to win right now. Well, to be fair to, 10 guys that ended up on IR starters. And then, of course, then you lost that and Martin. That's a lot to overcome. To your point, John, like, you could give allowances for that. And then with the COVID year and convinced training camp, you can give allow, like you don't, it's just, there's something about Oxnard, as you know, when you're out there at training camp and you're removed from, you know, staying in your own home or even just being in the hotel, there's a bonding that even happens with us reporters, you know, it's like, it's just this nucleus of you're away from everything. And I think that's why training camp is so important.

They put so much stock into it. Mike didn't get that this year. And I also think if you're trying to create your culture, and while I think Jerry and Stephen and certainly gave him a lot of things that we didn't see the other coaching staff get. It's hard to compare apples to oranges because Jason was being anointed a head coach, whereas this one has already been a head coach and had skins on the wall. And, you know, as he talked about today, he's dealt with adversity, especially in 2004. All of that being told, I think it's really, really hard, given what we also know about this team.

And like I said, again, the culture that has been there for a while, to build what I think Mike wants to build. Michael Irvin will tell you about this. Guys hated losing games because Jimmy wouldn't let them eat on the plane coming home. So these guys were like, we're not going to get to eat. And so it was like this real fear that Jimmy would get on the plane. You're not eating.

You've just played a long game and you're not touching dinner until you land at like 4 o'clock in the morning. Like that's a motivator. It's very Oliver twist. Sounds borderlight abusive. No food for you. These days, I do think it's hard.

and I think even Mike said this, you know, you've got to be very careful with professional athletes. I think especially when you're the new coach, he's got to kind of be the good cop, bad cop. I just, I think it's a combination of these guys aren't delivering the message the way this staff needed.

I don't know if they're going easier or harder. It's hard to say because I've gotten mixed messages from that locker room. But when they're saying, sort of a mixed message we sort of know with the Cowboys, it's hard for them to move forward. They started having that even just last year. So we know that like, look, certain people are going to be coached differently, but I think there should have been more of an accountability across the board and you needed to start nipping things in the bud pretty quick. And I also

think the coaches needed to be responsive to the fact that maybe your personnel just couldn't learn this defense on a short turnaround this year. And again, I asked Mike Nolan that question it was just hard to get an answer about why they started simplifying things after week two. Was that reactive or you started to realize you were asking them to do too much too soon? No, I think it was both of those things for sure. But they touch on the Mike McCarthy thing real quick. Yeah, he's not Jimmy Johnson like that. There will be none of that.

I mean, it's very clear. He's a very player's coach. If anything in a way, he reminds me of John Calipari at Kentucky, which it's a very one and done, very player first. you know, there's just a lot of examples. I've never seen Mike McCarthy yell at a player. I thought it was interesting after the game, particularly how when Calvin Watkins asked a follow-up question about him not liking

the way that they responded to the Andy Dalton hit, and he snapped back and was like, I already answered that question. Can I have another question? That stood out to me because that's the first time I've even seen Mike get like that with us because that hasn't been him at all. And I don't believe that's his personality to be. the yelling and screaming like some people probably wish that the Cowboys coach would be. But to his point, I don't know with today's athletes that you can be that way.

I don't know that that works. Like what worked for Bobby Knight with his Indiana teams, Bobby Knight's not winning coaching college basketball nowadays. That stuff wouldn't work. These guys would be like, I'm not playing for you. I'll go somewhere else. There's plenty of other places. So there is that.

The other thing is like there would be games where like and this stuff like to a lot of people won't matter. But I'm just saying like just examples of him being a player first coach. These guys, when they fly to the road games, when they go, when they travel, like there's no having to wear suit and tie. Like you see some, like, it's, it's very like a warm up suit, wear whatever you want to wear to games. Like, there's none of this like, I'm going to try and like be the coach and, and I'm going to be the face of this thing. I'm going to guide you guys in the right direction. I've won a super rule before.

This is the recipe. Do you want to follow it or not? And I don't know, like, to your point, if that's getting across, especially with a guy like Mike Nolan. I don't know if that's working, uh, with him. And I bring up Mike Nolan too because I think if there are any changes, it will be on that defensive side of the ball. We've seen it with Jason Garrett when there were years in the past where people thought, hey, this guy's about to get fired.

And then what did they do? They made him change up coaches and he had to adjust his staff. So I could see him maybe what he does is he finds a Kellyn Moore on the defensive side of the ball to be the next DC. For example, obviously this isn't the guy, but maybe a guy that about five, six years ago where Matt Eberflus was in his career, that that's a guy that, hey, this guy's best ball calling. football is ahead of him. Let's let this guy be, because he's representing where the game is going,

as opposed to where Mike Nolan, Rod Marinelli, are guys that are more of like, hey, this has worked for us in the past. And so I think that they're going to try and do that. And that's going to be the way that they sell it. You know, hey, this is what we're going to do in defense. The problem is, like, that's what was kind of being sold to us this, this offseason was that it was going to be more multiple and it was going to be going to disguise more things. So you have to question, do you have the players. It was, it always felt like they were confused even about their defense. Like, how hard was it for us to get just that answer? You know, like, what is this thing?

I can't put a finger on what this defense is. What is it? And then when we talk about players that are, I mean, we look at coaches like Chris Rashard, who came in here yelling, firing his guys up, that didn't land for very long. Yeah, real quick, Jane, let me, let me add in there real quick. That's another thing that needs to be pointed out is like, let's not act like this just started this year with this new coaching step.

We're riding a wave that goes back to last season. And after week three, this thing's been downhill ever since. If you go since week three, they started off last year, three and no. Since then, Dallas Cowboys have played 20 games. They've won seven. They're seven and 13. That's the exact same record that New York Jets have been in the last. And they are clearly the dumpster fire of all dumpster fires.

That's the level that they're on. So this goes back to, I mean, this last year's staff has to wear this too. This isn't just, this doesn't go just on Mike Nolan and Mike McCarthy and this year's offensive said. This goes back. That's why you see these issues. I think it's fair. I don't think it's like Barry Switzer inheriting Jimmy Johnson's team.

Like, there is a difference. I think the thing that just stood out to me so much was just how lost this locker room got under this regime and how quick and how quickly it got out. That was what. Because there's been problems in the past in that locker room that have not been as easy to sort of pin down, right? Like so many people have different thoughts on it, depending on who you asked. This was pretty uniform based on some. of the people I talk to. That's interesting to bring that up because it made me wonder, you know, when I,

when I saw you report that, it also made me think about just the locker room in general of a normal season and when we would get to go in there, Jane, like what would it look like right now? I believe it would be like a ghost town. Like we've seen at other times when there's been some like very few players in there. So I don't even know if a lot of that comes out from guys at their lockers. Like, like I just don't think there would have been a lot of guys around. Speaking of locker, one other point I wanted to make real quick, one benefit Mike McCarthy

does get is. with the new COVID is that he doesn't have Jerry Jones coming right out of the dressing room talking to us outside of there because it's one thing to do radio interviews and have two nights to sleep on it before you say stuff. It's another thing to start firing off like we saw him do. This isn't like we have to dig back to Jimmy days. I'm going to dig back to last season in New England and the way how critical he was. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're telling me that he would be just fine after these games this year. Like maybe he would but we don't know that for sure. He's fine with it because he made the hire and he made the change John. Yeah. But he wanted Jason Garrett to work out too.

I think that's why we're seeing him get so frustrated because I think it was a hard decision to move on from Jason and he did it. And while it was a hard decision to move on from Tony Romo, Dax sure did a good job of just being capable of leading in that locker room. And so when you get somebody to take over, you want them to continue to lead. And it just doesn't feel like this like coaching staff is helping lead either. So again, it's not a full indictment of the coaching staff. It's an indictment of all of them. Yeah. And I don't know where you fix it if you're Jerry.

Right. And the defense needs leaders too, though. And that's where there's some serious question marks because you believe that, yeah, Jalen Smith and DeMarcus Lawrence are leaders. There's a lot of people who think they're leaders, John. Right, right. But on the offensive side, there's, I don't think there's any question that that deck Prescott is the leader of the offense.

The problem with football, though, is that while the quarterback is the most important, position and that and that is huge when that's your leader he's also only on the field half the time so you need leaders on the other side of the ball too and that's clearly lacking because let's not act like the defense was playing well even when DAC was clicking and putting up these huge numbers and the offense was putting up points like there still is a lack of like the coaches clearly deserve their blame but the players there needs to be somebody it's and this is kind of going off topic but it kind of brings me back to Des to a certain extent and that there's a lot of people that'll criticized Des Bryant for the way he acted and things like that, whether it be sideline, locker

room yelling at us in the locker room on occasions and stuff. Kind of miss it. Right. But there's also some of missing that, like that you, again, you, like that's the best way to put is you don't need 53 guys like that. You probably don't need 20 or even 10, maybe not even five. But I feel like you need a couple of those Des Bryant's, those Michael Irvins, that are willing to kind of get loud with with some people.

some people out like that. And it really hasn't been like that's not Dax leadership style. And that's the thing. It's got to be organic. It can't be forced. And I think this team's missing some players like that. Because I almost asked the coaching staff this and then I just decided

that you've started enough fires for one season. Well, and then poor Bobby, I'll let you jump in here. There's just so much on this topic as it relates to some of the stuff that I've been talking to people about. I almost said who are your leaders in this locker room and why right now.

Who are they? Because I would be hard pressed to authentically healthy, healthy. Healthy. Healthy and in the locker room. Ezekiel Elliott, but I think it's tough to even, it's tough to lean on him when he's down because he's, he's clearly, I don't think he'd say this.

I don't think the staff would say this, but I think you can tell like he is in a bit of football depression. You can tell he's beating himself up right now. And I think it's hard to rally around a guy as like the locker leader when he's beating himself up. So Zique normally, but I think he's in a tough spot right now. I think Zach Martin's not healthy. I think Zach Martin is when he's healthy.

I think public perception would maybe be D-law and Jalen. I think at times that's not always been a strength. I think it's tough. Maybe Sean Lee. But Sean Lee's not healthy. That's the thing. I think late. How much do you follow Sean Lee if he hasn't played as much and he's been, you know, he's been removed?

Sure. Same question you asked Tyrone Crawford where he's at in his crew. And as I pointed it out today, I do think it hurts them. I didn't realize this because I was curious like, hey, is Layton Van Derrush going to be on the sidelines? And we'll be on the headset because of COVID rules. They can't be on the sidelines. They can't be in the locker room once they're on IR. And so, but I think just even having a DAC or a Tyron or a Sean or a Layton on the headsets because we've seen it in the past, I just think that would have helped.

Well, that's, that's one guy for sure I was going to say. Layton Van deresh, but he's got to stay healthy. And it hurts when you can't stay healthy to be that guy. And so I will say that if you said a year or two from now, name the leaders on this team, I'll give you two guys in this current roster. I think that you'll be in there. Obviously, Dak and Zach Martin, those guys, but CD. CD Lamb, absolutely.

CD Lamb and Layton Van derogh, I think are going to be two major leaders on this team. It just CD's at a point, like, I saw a video after the game last. last night in the Washington locker room where Terry McLaurin, Ron Rivera went around the locker room, was like, he was about to finish up and he was like, does anybody else have anything to say? And Terry McLaureen's like, I got something to say,

coach, real quick. And he started out by saying, hey, I know I'm a young guy on this team, but, and then he had like a really nice message about how like, hey, remember how this feel, guys, how we, everybody kind of complimented everybody. The offense of this, defense of this. And it was like really well,

but it was interesting the way he started it out. And when I watched it, the reason why I'm bringing it up is because it reminded me a lot of C. lamb. I'm like, I can see him being like that. But at this stage in his career, how loud can a guy like that really get without people being like, you're a rookie, shut up or whatever, you know, but I see him like that. I think that's how I interpreted the Andy Dalton response too, though. There were a lot of young guys on that offensive line. Like, how do we respond here? How hurt is he? Should we move him? Do I want to get penalized? They're on eggshells right now. Do you want to start a fight with the opposing team?

Does it look like you guys are being, you know, because then we would have dogged him. for you're being too chippy and you're just losing. So like I don't know if that's like the most fair like assessment of this team based on that particular response. Jane, I don't know. I don't know if that's as big of a response if McCarthy didn't answer the way he did after the game. Let me just say that. I think that I do think that exacerbated it. But I will say two things.

And first on that point, because I do want to stick up for the players a little bit because this was my thought process when I saw it was. I think everybody thought initially that was a really scary. injury and he was able to walk off but initially a cart was coming out he wasn't moving much his helmet was on the ground it's two weeks after the same sort of scary like oh my gosh i think what happened there i think why you didn't see the immediate let's go kill john bostic type of reaction is because i'm sure there were a lot of guys who just on the field went like oh my gosh is he okay and i think the focus was just about like is he okay not necessarily go get revenge and then bostick has thrown out of the game and the commercial break and so i mean he had to have been off the field pretty quick and so i think of the

instant like reaction of it is concern for Andy Dalton and then Bostick's in the locker room pretty fast after that. And so I don't know that there was much they could have done. I just think it was the fact that the Redskins themselves seem so like alarmed by what had just happened. Like they themselves saw the hit and we're like, whoa. Yeah, Ron Rivera post game said we can't have that. Like and I'm and I think that's the thing is that there's, I just think that for them as emotionally kind of teetering as it seems like this team has been recently, I think that that was just another one where I just think they were probably pretty shell shot and it's a bunch of young guys on offense that I don't know that they're it just struck me as it was a little kind of

jarring to them and I think if John Bostic stayed in the game and didn't get ejected I'm sure somebody in a dog pile three snaps later like steps on his ankle or so I'm sure somebody does something I think just in that moment there was a little bit of shell shock um but to the point of you kind of expect it from connor williams you know like sometimes Connor Williams has I've I've noticed Connor Williams get scrappy before and kind of try to be like a little bit of an irritant. But I mean, that may just speak to also where things are at. When he went over there and yelled at them like earlier in the game, is there like a lack of respect there?

I think that's when you truly find yourself going. We really underestimated DAC because imagine how DAC stole that locker room from Tony Romo so quick. I mean, it was that thing happened like in a two-week time period. And Charles Robinson had a great article over at Yahoo on Monday. where he was talking about if that's Dak Prescott who gets hit and Tyron Smith and Zach Martin and Lyle they're on the field. Like you don't have to question like Tyron Smith is immediately going over and doing something or, you know, Lyle's going to go start a fight or something like that. And he pointed to the Miles Garrett incident. When Miles Garrett hit their backup quarterback Mason Rudolph with his helmet, Maurice Pounce, he immediately went over, punched him in the head.

Then when Miles Garrett fell over, tried to kick him in the head. and then when he realized, oh, this isn't working because he got a helmet on, Pouncey went to the ground and started punching him in the ribs. And then postgame said, worth it. Totally worth it. No, they don't. And that's a good point that I want to jump on really quick, that I'm curious for y'all's thoughts on this.

How much of the evaluation, I know this is something they always evaluate, but I'm curious, do you think there's going to be a bigger emphasis, now that we know they're going to have a high pick and things like that, there's going to be a bigger emphasis on not just what are these guys in terms of players, but like we've really got to make sure we draft future leaders here. And we've really got to vet who are the guys who we think like character and makeup. That almost like kind of a return to the Jason Garrett. We got to find right kind of guys.

We got to find the guys who can rally. Like this can't just be about their talent. We got to find guys that we think can be vocal leaders in here. But they did that. They went and got you. I think Trayvon Diggs has sort of answered the call. He hasn't always been there. But like I don't think you can necessarily fault that kid for effort.

I think they're putting him on some of the league's best. Sure. Sure. I don't mean they did. He's getting destroyed. And then I think Cedi Lamb is like another kid that I think we would consider a leader. So there's your first two picks. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't mean they ended up with poor leaders, but I mean, they have also ended up with Taco Charlton's in the past. So what I'm saying is, do you think that given, do you think, I guess I'm going to say is that when they go to their analysis at the end of the year and they evaluate where their roster is, do you think they will evaluate their talent deficit as being just as big a problem that needs to be fixed as their leadership deficit and that they're going to have to find people to fill both voids? I agree that they will, but I don't think that that's been a problem that stands out to me in the draft. I think that the guys that they've drafted, that's always been part of the equation, really since Will McLeigh's been running in it. And really since Jason Garrett's been involved, you want to go even farther back than that. It's maybe the free agents that they bring in and how they fit with the guys that you already have there. I don't think there's any question that I think they're in a good spot with C.D. Lamb and Trayvon Diggs and Tyler Beautish,

and I think that they'll continue to aim for guys like that draft-wise. I think that they might reevaluate who they bring in free agency-wise. And if these guys fit with what they do, one thing I just got to go back. you real quick. I don't think it's fair at all to compare what we saw on the John Bostic hit to the Mason Rudolph thing. No, no, no, it's not the same at all. If he's standing up there, if he's standing up and John Bostic walks up to him, pulls his helmet off and swings at him, all those guys, as shell-shocked as you want, that thing, like, that thing was brewing there. Those guys are to respond. Ezekiel Elliott would have, that's way different than that.

Like, that happened so fast for the Cowboys. And again, I do think that's because that, you know, Mike McCarthy brought it up after a game. And we're sitting here as reporters, even fans, whatever. People watching, they're like, this isn't going well. There's something wrong with this team. And so when you get a little morsel like that by a coach, everybody jumps on. Like, yeah, yeah, see that? See that?

I told you. I told you that they didn't care. They need that because you need something that you can point to as being an example of, see, these guys don't care. It's the player's fault. And it's not easy to do that in this business. It's not easy to constantly point a finger at something and say, this guy is the reason, this guy's the reason.

because you know what, it's almost never just one person or one area. It's usually the whole, to play as bad as they've had the last two weeks, it's not because of one guy or one side of the ball. It's everybody, coaches, players, everything. I just, I think the best way I describe is it's Murphy's Law. Anything that can go wrong will, and it has this year. I mean, the fact that we saw Ben Danucci in the game, and as, you know, I were talking about it,

maybe it's not bad to have a Ben Danucci play for a bit. You know, he's got this youthful enthusiasm, this naivete, that we sort of saw from Dak Prescott. He is a little bit of this game where I think he came in in a bad situation with the rain conditions, that offensive line. You get Zach Martin and Joe Looney back in there. We start seeing a... Here was the other guys that are coming back this week.

Sean Lee's working his way back in. Cheeto. So you're getting a little bit more help on defense. Why not see what you've got from the young guy? Get him some real playing experience. It can't get me worse. I mean, how many points is Andy Dalton put up? up at this point?

Well, I mean, I think if you consider that the drive where they scored, I feel like that still deserves credit as a DAC Prescott drive because they were in the red zone and then Zeek ran it in. So if you consider from there, they scored six points with Dalton against the Giants, 10 against the Cardinals and then three against Washington. So, I mean, it has been brutal. One of the biggest is, it can't get that much worse. Well, I mean.

Well, it could. At least with Dak, he's coming from. playing SEC defenses and then he had a training camp where he got to practice. I mean, Ben Danucci says after the game, he's like, hey, we're not seeing guys at James Madison that look like Chase Young. So, and then the fact that he, like two weeks ago in practice, Ben Danucci was Kyler Murray for the scout team. And now all of a sudden he's thrown in there.

I don't know. It could get. Wait, which is getting him, his, his optimism, his youthfulness with a bunch of other young guys, get him some real playing experience. that way you're creating actual meaningful depth at that position, which is something McCarthy has said he wanted to do with that room anyways. I'm not saying you move on from Andy, but. And create value because I think that's an important point that you've seen New England follow that

trek a lot where they just create opportunities for guys. And I think you've seen other teams do that where they create opportunities for backup quarterbacks because it's hard to bank on a quarterback when you don't know anything about them. And so I think if you, you put some tape out there, people already have their pre-drafts, evaluation. If things don't go totally wrong or they exhibit some toughness or some arm talent, then it actually creates an error of like, hmm, maybe, because everybody always wants the quarterback lotto ticket. And so, yeah, if you could put Ben Danucci out there and create some sort of like, yeah, okay, I'd be willing to put a fifth rounder up on that or a fourth rounder on that.

Like, we can throw a dart here. We're in the middle of looking for a quarterback. Let's start a competition before we go investing a top pick in one. And so I could see that that would be something of that. And I think it, I tweeted this yesterday. I think this season at this point is all about evaluating your team for next year. Like I think these final games are not about trying to pursue anything other than just going, all right, guys, let's see who exhibits fight, resolve. Let's see who shows talent where it flashes in practice.

Can it translate over here? I think you're looking to see about any character questions you have about guys or what kind of locker room guys. I think you'll get the answers over the next several weeks. You'll be able to say, okay, what do they do through this adversity here? And I think it'll kind of self-prune things a little bit and help you decide, all right, this isn't somebody that we want on our locker. And to that point, going back to what we're just talking about a little bit ago,

about Leighton Van derich being a leader, I did notice something that I want to give them credit for and specifically give Leighton credit for. Do you remember late in the game, it may have been the very last drive? If it wasn't, it was the drive before for Washington where Neville Gallimore got that tackle for loss. He like got a two, three yard tackle for loss. It was like a quick burst play or whatever. But I mean, it was end of the game didn't matter much. Neville Gallimore is a guy that I think, just from talking to people. I know he's had some trouble adjusting and he's gone through the same sort of rookie doubts

of like, oh man, my coaches are riding me and I got to do this and that. And I thought it was interesting that when he made the tackle, I was going to see, all right, let's see if he gets up and celebrates like some rookies do, like over celebrates in a 22 point loss. And he didn't. He didn't, but Leighton Van deresh ran up

and tried to like hype him up. And Leighton Van deresh celebrated. And I don't think Leighton Van derich would have done that. I don't think Leighton Vanderers would have celebrated like that for himself if he made that play. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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You know, Tristan Hill, too. I mean, for a while, it was, we're voting you off the island. I just, I think probably the hardest thing for the Jones family has to be, it felt like this was literally a ready to bake pie. like this thing looks nothing like Pinterest. Like this is like like the ingredients wasn't there. It didn't rise to the top. Did we like are we missing flour?

Do we not put enough water in? Did the recipe call for this and we put something else in there? Like I get it. I'm a terrible cook. I can only imagine. So it doesn't look like what was on the box is what you're saying? It doesn't look anywhere close to what it looked like on the box. It's the best way that I can use to describe.

Like the heat was all. or you didn't preheat the oven as much. Like, I think you could make that analogy to this. They didn't preheat the oven as much. I think there was some ingredients that were missing. And I think the expectation was you thought you were Martha Stewart and you're just an amateur on Pinterest, like trying to put this recipe together.

I think that there's some elements of all of those things there. Yeah, and they certainly thought they were getting Martha Stewart with a guy that even today, you know, when Stephen Jones is talking on the radio, It's constantly going back to, you know, Mike McCarthy dealt with tough times in Green Bay. It wasn't always easy there. They had to deal with injuries and adversity and he won a Super Bowl there. So, no, they're very, to use your analogy, then they absolutely think that they got Martha Stewart, but they might think that she doesn't have the ingredients to cook what she's capable of cooking.

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necessarily, but this is the same thing that we kept putting on Jason Garrett. At the end of the day, you're the guy that's the face of the franchise. You're the guy that's supposed to get everybody on the same page. You're the guy that made the hires. So if that criticism worked with Jason Garrett, it's got to apply here too. But I just think we have such a small sample size and it's such a tricky year. Do we put that in a context? I just know on it's been more than just players that have weighed in on this particular coaching staff as it relates to whether they are good or not.

And so I have to factor that in with just not a couple of frustrated players who aren't playing well or aren't executing. I've got to factor some of that feedback in. Which I respect saying that. Which I want to give Mike McCarthy credit since they're, is so much criticism flowing his way and things like that. I think that in the wake of Jane's report, I think Mike McCarthy has handled it as best he can. I don't think that many coaches would have handled, and I'm not saying worse, but I think that generally in terms of responding to the question,

he didn't try and beat it back and say that doesn't exist. I think he said, you know, we're going to handle things differently. I think that today, him talking to the media and him saying, the criticism that's been levied against us is fair and say that we deserve it. There's not really been any pushing it off. I think he's trying to take responsibility. I thought today, like the press conference, he had, I thought generally he handled things better today

than he has at other times in his early tenure here in Dallas. But I think he is trying to really take on some responsibility and say, we as a whole are not doing well. And potentially trying to send a message to the players of like, let's not divide this to are the players doing this? Because early on, that was something he was saying was, well, sometimes players are. just trying to revert back to this or that or they're trying to do this.

And I think that now he's trying to incorporate it as this is an entire failure. This is a collaborative effort, as Jason Garrett would say. And we're all failing at this right now. And we deserve the criticism that we're getting. We're going to try and write the ship. I think that he's handling things as best he can in the wake of what's going on, at least publicly. I don't know what he's doing internally. But publicly, I think he's handling things better than I'd say others have been when they've been asked about it.

No, he's handled that very well. He didn't handle the criticism that, I mean, to your point, Bobby, I mean, if I put out this report during Bill Parcell's era, he would have snapped my neck off in a press conference. So, you know, I think Mike, I think. Mike, thank you for the opportunity, Jane. Next year's going to be really comfortable. We have more time in front of these. But I think, I don't think people can say that the report. court is erroneous because they know

what's what's going on in the building. And I think that's why Mike addressed it as quick as he did. I don't know that. That's my sense. I think the frustration was of course the anonymous sources, but given the dysfunction that we keep hearing about, like it doesn't sound like vocalizing that internally would have helped. Or if they did vocalize it.

That's exactly. Internally and they and it didn't work. And that's why guys wanted to say what they said. That's the same sort of thing. Is that potentially this was attempted. Maybe this is something that guys have tried to address internally they haven't felt good about how it was addressed. Yeah, they haven't heard anything in return about it. Nothing's, nothing's been done.

And so if nothing's going to be done. And that's an assumption. We don't know for sure, but that's just an assumption. I got to tell you, I was, given what I knew about how frustrated this locker was, locker room was,

I still thought that given the scrutiny this week, that this team would respond in Washington. I was actually shocked. and I can imagine Mike McCarthy was shocked that it went the way that it did. I would imagine Jerry Jones was equally shocked. I mean, even Jerry when he came out, he was so upset about it.

I think there was on some level, like that was a rallying cry for his players. Like, we're not going to take this, you know, like this outside information. And I wish I was even shocked, given the level of play and the level of that. I mean, it's in the body language. So.

Yeah, I mean, Nick Eatman made a great point. I was listening to Dallas Cowboys.com. Nick Eatman made the point that on the very first run of the game, it wasn't a big thing, but Peyton Barber gets a handoff. He gets what should be about a yard and should be wrapped up. And then he still kind of like churns forward and it eventually just becomes a five-yard run. And you don't think much of it.

It's the first play of the game. But it's like Nick said. He said, that's just like, you know, a microcosm of what the whole day was. And sort of what this whole season has been, which is just, man, make the play. Like get it done. Like what do you like it's just they will always allow more than you know what's there. They will always allow a little bit extra. They're always going to, you know, you may be in position but then, you know, somebody blows it or there's just an effort thing where it's like wrap up and make the damn tackle.

Don't let him churn his legs and push you forward another 12 feet. And that's become an issue I think overall with a lot of the team is just the efforts not there. And I think it's like Mike McCarthy said when he first got asked about it. I thought it was a fair thing to say, which is you kind of expect these things when you're losing football. It's hard for everybody to be happy when you're losing football games. Everybody's been in a bad mood. We've heard players talk before about not just because of the Jimmy days. Like you pointed out like Irv had said where it's like, oh, you don't want to piss Jimmy off.

But like guys, like the flight home when you lose is usually pretty bad because it's just everybody's in a bad mood now and everybody's upset that they lost. and so I think that there's If his practices are so good As are they, though You'll tell us Are they though? I just understand why the games are so bad Because I bet the practices aren't that good, Jane.

No. I'll just say this. I've been to every practice Going back to training camp. Careful. Careful here, John. But go ahead. Just careful what you say

about what you've seen out there at practice. Every trick play I've seen them try has been a disaster. That's all I'm going to tell you. Well, like there's not anything that really runs smoothly from what we see. I will. I've been at every practice. And I'm not going to get in specifics and talk about which players are doing what

and in what units are doing this. But like, it could be offense, special teams, whatever. I'm just telling you. It doesn't look smooth. Their practices just lack. I mean, it was even as something as simple as just the music, right? Like, early on. Oh, my God.

There's no energy. It does not seem. It feels. say what you want about Jason Garrett and the jumping jack stuff, which used to drive us crazy. It was just, he had this, like, optimism and enthusiasm about him that I don't know if that was infectious for the players.

I just never heard the players dogging the staff like that. I mean, there was structure. They were, they didn't adjust. Remember, his thing was like, you never,

like, he didn't get reactive. Like, so when they were like, we've simplified the playbook after week too, I'm like, now see, these players are used to you not being reactive like that.

Like, which which not to not to wish for Jason Garrett again I think Jason Garrett had a lot we're doing here Jason Garrett Jason Garrett had a lot of flaws he had 10 years to get it right it didn't but I will say that to this point I think this is the best example people could have ever seen about the thing that they always mocked him for which was the process and I heard Jason describe this one time at a like a forum he was doing and he was talking about what that means and what it means to like follow the process and why that's important and it made sense which is there's got to be just a, if you're continuously even and you're not going high or low on anything and there's just this stability, guys will always know what to expect. Guys won't be, you know, concerned about, you know, this reaction or that reaction when things go a certain way. They know exactly what's expected of them just with repetition. They won't have to worry about changing things. And then, you know, because he said, if you change things, if you react a certain way when things go poorly, then, you know, well, you didn't react that certain way when things went poorly last year. and so this strikes me as you're panicking. And so now players are panicking.

And, you know, he said that if you just keep that stability, guys will never feel a sense of going with the moment. They're going to always just feel this is the level that we always need to be on. And I think that you're seeing kind of how when that's removed and that stability is removed, how some of this stuff sort of happens. And I think this is for all his faults and failures on the football field and in game making, you know, game day decisions and going for two or calling a timeout or not calling. in a timeout, those areas where he struggled.

I think you're seeing why Monday through Saturday guys always went to bat for him. And we're generally ready to go out there and give everything on Sunday. Things are certainly less organized than they were Monday through Saturday from what we get to see. And again, this is a small slice. We're getting to see 20 or 30 minutes of practice. Obviously training camp, we got to see all of it. But yeah, the quarterbacks, we don't even get to see. They're practicing inside.

The rest of the team's outside. Some guys are doing special team stuff. other guys are just walking around kind of off on their own. Like that first 20 or 30 minutes, I'm just telling you, from what I see, anybody that listens to this as a Cowboys fan, from what I see, if the rest of the practices like that, nothing that's happened on the field this year should be a surprise to you. That's all I'm saying.

So when they say that the practices went well and things went great, and then they have, I mean, this is two weeks now. They talked about how good the practice have been, and it's two of the worst losses I've seen in almost a decade of covering this team. So obviously what practices aren't really going, well and they're lying or they're going well to what their standard is and that might even be a bigger problem. And they dazzle us with these drills, right?

Like we're preaching the fundamentals and like now we're still hearing that they're preaching the fundamentals. And I'm like, the personnel isn't that insanely different from what they were dealing with last year. I mean, if you really look at the field, I mean, offensive line, absolutely. That's a completely different look. defensive line. So you've added another piece.

I still don't quite understand why you just wouldn't go all in on Randy Gregory with his fresh legs last week, especially when Ezekiel Elliott who has a sample size of what he looked like before. Well, they probably well. That's what they're trying to shop Everston Griffin for is they get something there and then that is Randy. But Dorrance Armstrong getting 20 snaps

more than Randy. I don't understand what 's going on there. Well, it's funny you say that John, because I did read into that and I didn't know if I should when Nolan was sort of talking about, he was very, he was tiptoeing around certain players. And I'm interested to see if those players, I'm not going to say it because I don't want to create a storyline,

but I mentioned those same players are going to be here in a few weeks because it was the way he was tiptoeing around their play. So I thought that was interesting, go back and listen to that and read between the lines. Was he giving, was he being critical of Everson Griffin when he all of a sudden got Tabasco in his eye? I mean, it was Stephen off to the side and just like, do not ruin trade value?

And just like, talking about Marcus Lawrence right there, actually. Oh, so D-Laws in trouble. He was talking about Demarcus Lawrence

being around the ball. And then it was like, Tabasasasas got in his eye and then he was out. But it was more when he was talking about players need to have some of the snaps taken off their plate. But then he kind of cushioned it with like,

because of fresh legs. And we'll see how that works out this week. And I was like, what was, but again, it's hard to analyze or psychoanalyze some of these coaches because we haven't developed a relationship

with them to psychoanalyze. they're saying and read between the lines. Yeah, I don't. It's hard because I know everybody in the fan base just wants to blame Mike Nolan and say, hey, this guy, look at his track record. Why did they think this was going to work? Well, obviously, Mike McCarthy hired him for a reason. And I do agree with you, Jane.

He does say some things that if you read it. I mean, sit there and talk about that play last week, the 69-yard touchdown run, Kenyon Drake at the end of the game. Yeah, he talks about when he throws out knife in the back. And then he doesn't finish the saying, but he said, you can lead a horse to water. I mean, we know how that saying ends. And that's basically telling you that, hey, we can only show these guys.

This is what you do. This is going to be here. They have to do the rest after that. I mean, he's giving you, he's sticking up for himself to a certain extent. I just, I just keep thinking back on week two and the storyline being maybe this guy needs to come out of the coaching booth and be on the sidelines. I don't think that was the issue. It feels like they've been very reactive on that side of the ball. Yeah.

I do agree that I don't know if making a chip. change at this point is the answer because what message does that send then to the team? Is that do you need a sacrificial lamb or does that immediately say like we hear you guys or you guys can bitch enough and we're going to make change it? I don't, I honestly don't know the answer. I'm glad that I don't get paid money to have the answer. That's not what my job is. And so there is a part of me that legitimately fills for Mike McCarthy in the situation.

I mean, God, you set out a year to come back to this. I don't know if he can possibly address all the problems. And like I said, the injuries and COVID are just, I can't remember a year we had this many injuries to starters the way that they've had. I mean, key positions. And if you're the Jones family, I mean, you can't abandon this. Everyone keeps asking me like, is he a one and done? Like, I don't think you're going to see what we saw with Arizona.

Now, I think he'll get next year. And then I think if next year trends as terrible as this. Like, yeah, I think he's gone after year two. and then I think my master plan is Bill Belichick gets tired of New England, that mutual respect they have for each other translates, and Jerry finally gets Bill and all is right with the fan base, but we'll see. That's the only way he's a one and done as far as I'm concerned, is if you have this rare, rare chance that like there is like a Bill Belichick

that all of a sudden says, hey, Jerry, in the offseason when they're, I don't know, hanging out on a boat in the Mediterranean, and they're like, hey, I can fix that thing for you. And I'm trying to get out of New England. Then maybe then he'll, but, If he doesn't have somebody lined up that Jerry Jones can unequivocally say is better than Mike No. I mean, Mike McCarthy, he's not making that change after one year. Mike McCarthy is getting more than one year.

If anything, it'll just be that he'll be forced to change his coaching staff. What will be really interesting to me is what an indictment on the players if there aren't major changes with the coaching staff at all. And this continues to go in this direction. I mean, then that tells you that the organization really believes it was all in the players. if they're not going to even change out any, make any significant moves on the coaching staff. So there's some cards that are still left to be played, but I'm very intrigued by that because,

I mean, you just go back to last week. Jerry Jones said, quote, he's okay with Mike Nolan. So I don't know. I thought that was interesting too, like,

okay, felt very lukewarm. It is very lukewarm, but what can he really say at this point with the results on the field? But what if he decides like, you know, I don't know, because I'll tell you,

there was an answer last week that Mike Nolan gave, breaking down why you, can't just be a one-call defense and how it impacts you in the playoffs and how you're going to go up against guy like Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers and how you're going to, if you don't have any other things that throw at them, you're bringing a knife to a gun fight. And I thought that was interesting because it was kind of like a shot at their previous regime of how, yeah, these guys were fine in this really vanilla defense during the regular season, but they couldn't beat the really good players in the playoffs. And that's why you need, you know, something else in your bag that you

can bring towards them. But he hasn't even gotten a chance to where he can build towards that. But the way he broke it all down in this lengthy answer when he was saying it all i kept thinking of myself is in a monday meeting he says that stuff in front of jerry jones and jerry jones is like i like this guy i like what he's going i like what he's saying right now i i do think it this year would be the best year in the world to have the all or nothing cameras in there i would really love to see the uh the meetings that go on now um but i am curious you know we've got you mentioning so many guys that are on i are and and how many seasons have ended and guys who have not played yet, but we expect back a guy like Sean Lee.

I think there's three big names that you maybe could wonder, have they played their last game here in Dallas? And I don't think it's necessarily fair, but some people speculate it. Dak Prescott, Tyron Smith, Sean Lee. Right now, would you feel comfortable that all three of those guys are going to play for the Cowboys someday, or do you think at least one of them has probably played their last snap for Dallas?

Oh, well, okay, you said Dak Tyrone and what was the third? Sean Lee. Yeah, no, there's possibility that none of them are with the team next year because it's all health-related. I mean, if you tell me that Dak Prescott isn't back to what he was before and he's having significant problems with his ankle that he plants off of, I don't know how you can give him $38 million, even on the franchise tag, much less to give him a long-term deal that pays him $38, $40 million a year. I don't think that'll be the case, though. So I think that that is very unlikely, but you can't completely rule it out.

I mean, this isn't just like your minor ankle sprain. I mean, that's a significant injury. He's sustained. So there's still a ways to go with that. Isn't it a good? Well, Romo thought it was a cramp, right? Why are we doing this? Okay, sorry.

Go ahead. Sorry. I got chills just saying his name. I wouldn't rule that. I wouldn't rule that out. And the other part in that factor would be like, what if they're so bad, they get like the two pick? And then, I mean, teams that are drafting in the top five in a year where there are multiple quarterbacks are always going to look into quarterback, whether they're going to take one or not.

So you can't 100% say any of those guys are back. But I would say right now, if I was betting my own money, I would say Dax back and Tyron's back. But I mean, heck, Tyron Smith, all the injuries he's had, if he sat there and out of nowhere, you know, pulled the Travis Frederick and you were just like, wow, Tyrant's hanging it up. Like, can you really be that stunned by? Again, I don't think that happens, but you can't completely rule that out. I think there's going to be some guys that question whether they want to continue playing. I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, yeah, just not even, I don't think, for this team. I think there are some guys who may be questioning if they want to keep playing this game. Yeah. And I think it's, I think it's got no point, you know, for some of them where they're just like. I'll tell you what's interesting to me. If the Cowboys wanted to go full of this direction, this could be interesting. I think, first off, before I go down this trek of saying that the Cowboys could potentially end up with the number two pick, I do want to just bring up something that I keep trolling John about privately, which is,

heading into Monday night football and I'm going out to my car to get something and I run into John and we say hi. Yeah, you know what's coming and we say hi and we just get to talking about the team a little bit and I was like, I don't know. I don't know that this team's going to win more than four games. He's high in his face because he knows.

And John goes, I don't think it's going to be as bad as you're saying. It's going to be better than you think. And then he came by a half time with, yeah, you were right. Never mind, this is awful. I think I said, quote, unquote, I don't think it's going to be that bad. Yeah, that's, yeah, it's very optimistic.

But with the thought that, This is interesting to me. They could end up with the number two pick. And if they end up with the number two pick, they're picking at the top of every round. If you end up with the number two pick and you're confident with DAC, you can move that pick and down a couple slots

to pick up potentially two more picks than the top 100 and a pick next year because somebody wants Justin Fields. If you do that and you're likely getting a comp pick at the end of the third round for Byron Jones, or then you're picking at the top of the fourth round. I mean, you're realistically, if you get the two and you trade down

and pick up a couple of other, others. This is a team where Dallas could look at themselves and potentially find themselves picking seven times in the top 100 next year. And that's before saying, before even saying maybe they go, we're rich enough at receiver, maybe we want to move on from an Amari Cooper, a Michael Gallup and pick up an extra pick. I mean, they could, they could really put themselves in a position to restock with top 100 talent if they wanted to go that direction. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing huge. Others say it's unleashing huge.

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just say be careful about that thinking because Detroit was certainly trying to get out of three for that same thought process that somebody will want to come up and get a quarterback and nobody did so they had to take Jeffrey Okuda and I say that because if nobody wants to come up I think I think corner like Okuda is is where they're going to go because I think Patrick Certain will end up being the type of guy there and I don't know if as bad as this season is getting a top corner really just you know glosses over everything like obviously I've ascertain on one side and Trayvon Diggs is great, but it ain't like, let's just look at last year's draft.

If they had two last year, I don't even want to hear about quarterback. You take Chase Young all day long, you plug him into his defense. You're good to go right there. But if they have two and you can get a team that's willing to trade up, absolutely. They could fix a lot of problems with that defense real quick. It's similar to what, yeah, not everybody has the opportunity to Detroit does, but you would in theory still have four other picks in the top 100 just because of where

you're going to be picking. But I mean, you could do like San Francisco, good night. when they flipped the number two pick, like there wasn't even anybody after Chicago. Chicago went, hey, let's just trade spots. We know you're not going to take him,

but you might trade your pick so somebody can come up and get Mitch Trubisky. And then they got a haul and we're able to pick up more draft picks later on. And so it would. But you are asking this team then to rebuild and be patient. And I think that's why Jerry lashed out the way he did. And Colin, I don't think you need to rebuild.

I don't think that would be a rebuild. Because in that, in Bobby's case, if you're trading back, you're just addressing. the defense and you're going to you're going to bring in some young players but you still have if you're doing that fix this offensive line john okay and i understand that but like if you're doing that you're keeping deck prescott and as long as that prescott is linebackers right no there's going to be issues but i don't think you go you'll as long as deck prescott as the quarterback it'll never be a full

rebuild because he'll keep you in games you're also assuming deck prescott's going to come back and be the deck press that everybody and look but i don't like betting against dack because he's proved just proved so many people wrong over the years, but you know, you hit the nail on the head. Like this was not a, they said surgery successful. We haven't seen him practicing on it just yet, you know? So man, if that's, can you imagine if they had paid him this year and then what they'd been on the hook for moving forward? I mean, I think, I think you have the answer, though, as to, I think they're going to try. I think, I think you have the, I think you have your answer for like the legitimate prognosis, though, based off of do they take a.

a quarterback next year. If they take a quarterback next year because they'll be picking high enough to where they can get one who's good, then yeah, they clearly, at that point, I don't think, I don't think taking a quarterback who's an unknown quantity is about, oh, this is cheaper. So let's just let Dak walk. I think at that point that says something about they know where his health is at and they're not comfortable with it anymore. If they're comfortable with his health, then I think they go, all right, let's pick up as many picks as we can because we have so many holes here and let's fill up this roster with defense, defense, defense. I mean, yeah, defense. Defense, defense, defense, defense, defense, and offensive line.

You're going to have to, luckily you have B. Audition, Zach Martin already. I think myself, they're a love affair with Terrence Steel is bizarre to me. But I think Brandon Knight can be a Doug freestyle, just steady right tackle for a long time. So if you have that in place next year, you just have the left side of your line that you potentially have to stabilize or get an answer on Tyron Smith and then stockpile on defense. And it's funny that as much as they've talked about, you know, one of the, their little arguments it seems to be with Dak Prescott has been, well, we got to put a cast around you. You know, that costs money and then things like that. And it's like, okay, well, who do you have coming up from a rookie deal that you're about to pay a bunch of money to? There's a lot of your drafts have

kind of missed in recent years. So there's not people that you've got to throw big extensions to left, really. And you've not really shown that you want to pay anybody in free agency. You've shied away from that for eight years now. And this year, when you kind of paid as much in free agency as you had in a decade, it's all looked bad. And so it's kind of like, you know, that kind of goes out the window and now you can pay Dak Prescott and load up the cap for future signings with big picks. And I think that may be the way they go. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more.

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Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to Navigating Adoption. presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Act Council. I think that, you know, Jane mentions if they had gotten a deal done with DAC. I think if that's the case, I think their decision has made a lot easier because he's their franchise quarterback.

As good as he gets back from this injury, they're stuck with it. But the fact of the matter is now that they have to weigh, what does he look like after the injury? And is it worth $38, $40 million? Or is it better off that we go and draft? a quarterback and that we pay that quarterback over the next five years, basically what we would pay DAC in one year. And so now they have...

But they're also realizing how hard it is to go just find some quarterback and hope that he's going to like... Oh, oh, look. And how hard it is to find a rookie quarterback 100%. Look a couple years ago. They're still looking at one, two, three years away from having some success there. But this is a team that got Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. They got Tony Romo's an undrafted guy.

Dak Prescott has a late fourth round pick. You can't tell me that, again, like all of us three sitting here. right now would say, yeah, I don't want to roll the dice on that. Let's just sign deck. But who's to say that within the organization, they're not like, we can do this again. We'll find another quarterback. Oh, sure. And so. I think it's hard to do it. It is. Absolutely. They wanted Paxton Lynch. They would have been an utter disaster. I can see them saying that. They wanted Paxton Lynch and they wanted Connor Cook in the fourth round. And they got him taken up the pick before they went. But I do think that it's interesting when you look at Darnold and Mayfield are

are two guys who are now considered not as good as Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, who went well after them in the first round of that draft. And so that's why I find it interesting when people are saying, oh, Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, you know, they're great. Go get them and just let Dak walk. I think the only, I think the cowboys know enough to go, that's still such a gamble that the only way they're willing. Well, no, no, no.

I'm not going to let you finish that point. Okay, okay. Do not, you do not dare to Trevor Lawrence in the rest of the. that. No, no, no. Trevor Lawrence, if they get one, they're drafting Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence is a once and 10 year prospect. He, don't you dare put him in a car.

Okay, okay. Okay, so we're going to have to fight. That's fine. Trevor Lawrence is to me, like, he's the same prospect coming out that Andrew Luck was, which Andrew Luck was a really good quarterback. Andrew Luck was a really good quarterback. I don't think that Andrew Luck, even before he got hurt, ever played up to a level that DAC has played for the last year and a half.

And so it's still a get, you would have walked away for Andrew. luck too and then it would have been the same thing you wouldn't have gotten there's Trevor Lawrence I'm sure will be a good quarterback is going but I mean his floor could be good quarterback and his ceiling could be Hall of Famer but it has less to do with DAC being this this Montana this you know Troy 8man and for me it has more to do with the same thing that you get with Patrick Mahomes they are true leaders in the locker room it's natural for them they galvanize without like, you know, being the prick. They galvanize without, you know, pointing the finger at other people.

They just, they didn't, they lead by example. And I think they are infectious in their locker room. And I think finding that is so hard. And the way that DAC did that, like I said, I mean, Tony Romo was the guy. I think there were guys that were frustrated with Tony Romo, the guy in the end. But for him just to be able to like literally take. that locker room the way that he did. And it was it was so evident that they never even let Tony compete for that job back. I mean, that that to me is the heart that's the secret sauce

that you want for and you can't find. I just think the biggest knock on him is going to be how good is this ankle and foot and do we want to, you know, lean in like now there's a doubt and the Cowboys had doubts in their heads before about overpaying. This is going to be a really hard decision to make. Yeah, that's that that's why I say I think if they go that direction and they're willing to gamble on a rookie, then gambling on a rookie, I think, was more about the fact that they're not comfortable anymore with where Dak Prescott's at health-wise. And I think that if you see them make that pick and you see them go and get a quarterback at the top of the draft, that to them means that Dak Prescott's not who, you know, isn't in a place anymore health-wise that they thought

it could be. Okay, I just got to throw this out. I can't let this go, Bobby. You know, I can't let this stuff go. I love DAC, and I want him to be their quarterback forever. But like, seriously, Dak is, Andrew Luck never played that level? No, 2014, 40 touchdown past 16 interception, put him behind this offensive line with Ezekiel Lally

and these wide receivers, stop. Nope, nope, no, no. Jane just hung up. No, no, she's just dialing back in as whatever. Because she throws. Don't you dare. Yeah, she got some Tabasco. The captain of the DAC fan club is weighing in.

I'm like, here we go. No, but I'm not like comparing him to some. like awful like Andrew Luck was the man. I know he, I know he hung it up early and whatnot, but Andrew Luck, if he continues to play, is winning at least one Super Bowl. And I believe the same thing with Trevor Lawrence. Well, I mean, I think post-injury, no.

Like, I mean, I don't think my whole point, post-injury, like he didn't have the arm strength anymore. He was a solid quarterback, but he didn't have the arm strength anymore. I'll give you that. I think he, I think, because I was there for the game when he came back and watch that season as doing sidelines for CBS, I think he really, like, that injury rock. him to his core.

And that's, I think, the one thing that worries me about DAC is how much this injury is going to rock him. But I also think that if there's anybody who is resilient enough to not have it rock them, it's going to be DAC. I mean, there's, it's been his entire career. He's had that sort of thing. But, I mean, I will say that I think that what, I don't think it's a coincidence that the last two weeks, you're kind of sensing some locker turmoil as soon as he's removed

from keeping that stability. and I think that not just what he gives you on the field, what they know he gives you with his leadership and things like that, that if he's healthy and they're confident in his health, I don't see how they can justify going, well, as much as we had, you know, leadership issues and chemistry issues, let's not just remove this player from it. Let's just permanently remove the leadership and the stability.

I just, I completely agree with that. I have a completely agree. And I mean, they're not getting the number one pick anyway. That'll be the Jets. And then Sam Darnold will go to the Patriots and Bill Belichick will trade for him with like a seventh rounder and a special team's lineback. and then he'll win, you know, five more Super Bowls with him.

But I do think that if they're at number two or something, and they take Justin Fields or they take the BYU kid, I can't remember his name Wilson, then I think that it's indicative that they clearly aren't comfortable with his health. Y'all, how many games do we have left in the season and we're already talking out this team tanking and. Yeah, yeah, we have. It's their fault, Jane.

Did you watch the games? It's their fault. Blame them. Don't blame us. I mean, and that's the thing. I think that, yeah, we're already going to start not team tank on purpose.

Like, you know, I heard Brad Sham make this point. I've heard this team tank theory in the last couple of years is just related to the Cowboys. Well, hey, you know what? The team tank theory, it wasn't on purpose because they were fighting until the end trying to get into the playoffs. But it worked in 2015.

And they reset in 2016 and we're like, oh, here's a huge talent pool that now we've restocked our roster for the next four years. That's a good point, too, because I think people see it just how bad things are right now and they're just like,

and this team's going to be bad for three or four years or whatever. No, you have another draft like you had this past year with the high, oh, high that they'll be drafting. And if Dack does come back and he's even close to what he was before, you went 13 and 3. You can't, no, they could turn it around real quick. You can't tell me, I'm sure people involved with like coaching. So if you're Jerry, are you on the phone then with Mike McCarthy and his staff

and you're like, start playing the young guys? Perhaps. Yeah, you're just asking. But I mean, I think, I think honestly, you're seeing some of that now because there are questions about effort and things like that. And they go, let's go with these guys who are at least going to be hungry. And I think that's why you're seeing some of the guys out there playing that you're like, Neville Gallimore is technique-wise not there right now. He's got talent. But I think that's honestly just go give us some effort. And I think you're seeing some of the changes they made it safety where it's

like, go give us some effort. Darrell Worley not playing like at all the other day was go give us some effort. And so I do think that you can't tell me though that maybe coaches and players and the people and Jerry who are involved in the day-to-day, like, ebbs and flows of it, are, you know, miserable with this. But you can't tell me that there are not, like, maybe some Will McLeigh or some, like, people have that scouting staff who are like, you know what, though? We got some guys who are injured who we know they're going to come back next year,

like Blake Jarwin, and they're going to get healthy, and we already believe in some of our talent here, and now we're going to get high picks. Cool. We get to, like, go through and resty. I would bet there's at least some little excitement. I mean, you don't want to be around losing, but I bet there's some excitement about what you can do next April. Not to be negative, Nancy, and I know we need to put a bow on this because we've had John on the phone.

We've abused your time, John. I'm sorry. We just want to be a point of you, John. It's fine. This is going to be a bit of a challenge this year as it relates to you said you want to find those leaders. You want to talent evaluate better with COVID and the way that it's disrupted some of the football seasons. And as we've talked to Daniel Jeremiah, you typically are on campus talking to the film guy. Who checks out the film? because this guy tells me he watches a lot of film,

but does he really do it and who has the clicker? Getting the answers to the questions that this team needs as you're evaluating players is going to be a little bit of an uphill battle this year as well. That's a fair point. I'll be negative Nancy here, but I just... Yeah, it's probably one of the... It's more than an hour talking this out

and it's as frustrating to us. I can only imagine how frustrating is the guys in the building. Yeah, and you're right. It's probably one of the years you'd least want to pick at the top because you have the least amount of information and things like that. But I mean, I still think that they'll be happy to take those darts, especially, especially Dallas being in a better position than I think other teams who will have picks this year because they are going to have so many with the comp picks come that they're going to be able

to feel a little more confident about what we can throw a bunch of darts and, you know, we at least have more opportunities to try and get it right with our evaluations than other teams do. So, I mean, I think there is just some optimism about you can feel better moving into the future that I think they're going to be able to restock things a little bit. And Mike McCarthy, I think if he weathers through this, you can feel confident that Mike McCarthy is going to be able to weather him through future issues because this is really tough on them right now. And if he holds steady and he shows the player something through this,

and they go, okay, that's a guy who stuck with us and we can stick with him now. I think there's some positive things you can build on. It's just really tough to see it in the moment. Well, the biggest positive, too, is... Yeah, no, the biggest positive, though, is the fact that if there's one thing that has gone well for Mike McCarthy since he's become head coach of the Cowboys, I personally believe it's been, it was their draft and that and and and and and getting Ciddy Lamb and getting Trayvon Diggs and and Gallimore and Biotish and and and I believe that

having a lot of high draft pick high picks in each round. I think that's going to help them a lot too. They, they had a strength there and so they have to continue to build off of that. So I agree with you. You might not sit there and say you're tanking, but that's where you go. and you play more of the Stephen Parker's and the Justin Hamilton's and see if you get something out of one of those guys. Maybe they keep them going forward. If not, well, you just, you know, you didn't win a bunch of games. You're going to have high draft picks anyway.

So maybe you develop a couple guys along the road that you didn't know. And then also you're getting toward your ultimate goal, and that's to being having the highest draft pick you can possibly get. And upgrade your defensive staff. There you go. There you go. And that's it. All right.

Well, that was a fun, you know, therapy session there with John Moshoda. I don't know if we feel any better about it, but we at least, I think, understand our feelings a little bit more. It'll be tough. Cowboys have two more games coming up before the by week, on the road against Philly,

and then at home, finally, they get to take on Pittsburgh, who is arguably the best team in the NFL. This is a tough stretch. Cowboys very well, maybe looking at two and seven heading into the by week and back in the division. But again, there's an opportunity here.

We'll be joining you again later this week. We'll talk a little bit more. see about Andy Dalton's availability. Will Ben Danucci get the start? Will the Cowboys go from 69 straight starts with one quarterback to three different starters in four weeks? A lot of questions heading into this one for the Cowboys, but we'll have some answers for you, hopefully, at the end of this week.

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