The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin chats with Andy Slavitt, Heath Care Policy Expert and former Head of Medicare

Episode Date: April 4, 2020

Colin talks with Andy Slavitt, Heath Care Policy Expert and Head of Medicare under President Obama about the cities most effected by COVID-19, the shortage of ventilators and why cities are competing for them. He goes into what are the next steps for us as a society to battle this and how close a vaccine could be available Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome to our Saturday morning podcast. Because of the situation we're in the isolation, I figure now is a good time to probably start doing additional podcasts every day. We'll talk about a variety of subjects. And I thought today, the one that we're all dealing with, coronavirus, I thought I'd bring on Andy Slavitt, the former head of Medicare and Medicaid for ex-president Barack Obama, the founder and chairman of the United States of Care, Wharton School of Business Graduate, MBA from Harvard, more than qualified.

And he has a new podcast, which we'll get into in just a bit. Andy, first of all, thank you for coming on. I want to specifically start with New York City. And as I look over the number of people tested, the confirmed cases, the death toll. I go burrow to burrow. And I would, my guess would be my hunch is Manhattan where you have vertical living, a subway system, public transportation, population density, busy street corners. That would be the hardest hit. But instead, the Queens has far more total cases and total deaths.

Explain that to me. My hunch would be totally off on that. Why do you think borough to burrow you're seeing great disparities in the United States? numbers of cases and deaths in New York? Well, I'm no expert on the Rose and Sub-Burro areas of New York, but I've been talking to people in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Manhattan a little bit. And, you know, it is amazing how there is so much difference in personal income, in geography, in multi-generational household.

Yeah. And all of those are factors that contribute to the challenges, as well as the hospital and medical capacity in each community. So, you know, I suspect that a combination of those factors as well as how strongly the population is choosing to socially isolate are kind of some of the things that work. But it's too early. I think I wouldn't necessarily draw a lot of conclusions from that. Yeah, and, you know, when I talk with my friends in California, I live in Los Angeles in a beach community, we talk about how we travel in cars. There's more isolation here, not as much vertical living. And in March, we had a lot of wet weather, so people were staying inside anyway, which was like March, rare, seasonal rain and heavy wind.

And, you know, we're just, you know, theorizing, did that help a little? Because California, with 21 days of social isolation right here in distancing, we haven't been hit quite with the. power yet, although we all expect some surges. You know, let's get to the ventilator issue where you hear corporations producing them. You hear individual states complaining they're not getting them. I think there's been some missteps on a federal level from the president. When you talk to people with your background on the ventilator issue, is it as bleak as you read sometimes on social media, in your opinion? People are scared and people are desperate.

You know, as your podcast goes out, the three biggest hotspots in the country in New York, New Orleans, and Detroit have a near-term rush of patients and a near-term shortage in ventilators. And there are – so I think, for the first instance, we've got to help solve that problem. In May, I think it is a little bit better situation than short. surgical masks in May, we're going to have more production coming online. And for people who can delay the onset by flattening the curve more, then that problem might be solved. What's happening in the meantime is FEMA is, if you're a state governor, what you're trying to do is you're trying to figure out how many ventilators are you going to need.

Right. And because you don't know, because you don't know how fast this is going to spread in your community, you end up getting all kinds of estimates. And in a normal circumstance, you would want to be conservative. You'd want to get more ventilators. If you're told you need 700, you might say, let's get 1,000, because the last thing you want to see are people dying in hallways of your hospitals without access to a ventilator. But these aren't normal times.

We've got a shortage. And so if every state goes around saying, hey, I need 1,000, then that hurts other states, if they only need 700. And so what FEMA is attempting to do is say, hey, let us figure out what everybody needs, and we will get you the ventilators we need. So everybody's acting somewhat logically. But the problem is when that happens, all of the ventilators that are coming to market, FEMA is buying them or getting them, and you end up with states then having to compete for one another if they don't feel like they're going to get enough. And so as a result of that, you have $15,000 ventilators being sold to states for $45,000 because they're competing against each other. You know, speaking of just an economic situation, when you're in the public sector, part of government, you are protecting the citizenry and the economy is.

about profits. It should be more than that, but that is primarily taking care of shareholders. And I think if you're in the public sector, you're in the White House, there's a difficult dance, a pivot perhaps we have to make here and sometime soon to address the economic situation, which could be some are estimating 12, 15 percent unemployment. I don't know. There's a, you know, let's just say it's 10. That means increased in poverty, generational poverty perhaps. So my question, Andy, would be How do you pivot to the discussions of economic realities without being lacking empathy or feeling like you don't care about the people who are struggling? Is that a difficult dance, do you believe, to deal with here in the next two to three weeks? I think you've got governors and other people in political power got a Hobsian choice to face because, you know, they're being told by scientists.

in no uncertain terms that by far the best thing you can do to save the most alive, which we all want to do, is to socially isolate for a little bit longer period of time. Yet you have other things that go on in people's lives. Some of it is economic. People are losing income. And as you said, that's very scary to people, including the projections I've seen for the amount of people that will be in hunger are frightening. Secondly, you've got the social support structure that all of us have to get us through hard times is not as available to us.

In World War II, we had, you know, we had a lot of fear of people losing in our lives. We had economic hardship, but the social fabric could be more easily knotted together. Today, we're being – that's being taken away from us as well. So, you know, and, you know, I think we're a country that has not, at least, you know, my generation, I'm 53. My generation has never really been asked to sacrifice much of anything in the past. And I think it's certainly true for people younger and many people even a little older. We're used to having kind of what we want and when we want it in the country. Kind of by definition, we are a little bit distrusting of government.

We don't like to be told what to do. We value our freedoms. it's a liberal democracy. It's not China. And so those are characteristics that are not helpful in reducing the spread of a pandemic. So, you know, we're seeing values that are clashing, which are making it challenging. And finally, people are still getting sick with other things. People still have cancer. People still have heart attacks. People have all kinds of other things. And so as long as the medical system is sort of overwhelmed with this one problem, there's other problems that are both physical health issues and mental health issues. So we can't look at this as there's a right answer.

We have to recognize that we have to struggle through a complex set of tradeoffs, do the best we can. And the best way to do that is to be open about sharing information, having public debate, and doing the best we can and helping each other through it. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist.

Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Park.

Listen to the Cliffer Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner,

we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of. the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Andy Slavits joining his head of Medicare and Medicaid underpresident Barack Obama, founder and chairman of United States of Care, Wharton School of Business, MBA at Harvard, joining us on our Saturday morning podcast. You know, you mentioned cultures.

Nobody certainly wants to be viewed as xenophobic. But I wonder if we do going. forward many things Andy would change. Do we readdress our relationships, say, with China, limiting flights going forward? That, you know, again, and I'm reading as much as I possibly can, but they have a different culture. It's fairly well documented, exotic animal consumption. Do you have to, if you were in the White House again, do you have to readdress, reboot relationships with cultures that you may, going forward may not be allies. I mean, where do you, where does that land going forward?

I think people are going to rethink a lot of things, but hopefully it'll be done not in kind of a reactionary mode, but in a thoughtful mode. I mean, so on the one hand, world trade is vital here. And if we had better relationships with China and some of our trading partners, it would be easier and less trained to get more of the goods and things we need into this country right now, including our drug supply chain. On the other hand, you know, measures at our borders, including our customers' borders, probably need to take into account the spread of pandemic. And, you know, it's easy to do when things are highly symptomatic.

But there may need to be greater. percent paid. For people who travel outside the country may know that they often get asked, did you spend any time on a farm, you know, in those sorts of questions in the last 14 days. I think we're going to see having to see increasing kind of intelligence and surveillance around people's activities. I don't think it's a good idea to single out nationalities and races because I think we're bad at that.

I think we over, we overdo it. We tend to say, well, it's all of Asia or so forth. But if we know there's hotspot regions of the country and hotspot regions of the world, then there's nothing wrong with us saying, okay, we need to limit or restrict travel or have a process, a quarantine process, or some other process for people who travel from those places. Andy, there's so many data points to look at. It's kind of overwhelming. You know, you watch a study and the model changes day to day.

based on social distancing. Is there a data point in all this with the coronavirus that you look at? Well, we know less about this today, far less about this, than we will in months or even weeks. So, you know, we're still learning. It's a novel virus, and we need to share openly what we know and process it. I think today, what we have to get a handle around our world, what are the leading indicators of what's going to come next in the community? So we can reinforce the things that are working.

Seattle lowered its transmission spread rate from about 2.5 to about 1.4. We're seeing studies out of Germany where they can lower the transmission rate below one. And let me just explain the definition of what I mean by transmission rates. Some people call it the R-Nought, which in effect says how many people, if someone gets infected, how many people do they in turn affect, in fact? And, you know, we've been, the reason this is growing exponentially is because a lot of people are asymptomatic and they spread it a lot. So if you've got an ironot between two and three, which is where we've currently been sitting, that's not good. That means we're doubling the spread every three to four days. But if we

lower that transmission rate down to just above one, then that's quite a good. quite a good thing, and if we can lower it below one, then we're gaining on it. In addition, there's other pieces of data that I think are people are increasingly discovering. There are a million digital thermometers that are all hooked up to an analytical database. Yes. I look at that data and have analyses prepared for me all the time, because that tells me not where things have been, but where things are going. There's a new article out by Michael Lewis, which suggests that one of the symptoms of coronavirus is people losing their sense of smell, that in fact 60% of people who lose their sense of smell, or 80%, I should say, have coronavirus. And that's a knowable, reportable kind of information that we can use as leading indicators.

So we're going to get smarter and smarter about this. So we're going to have to get it down to the level that they have in South Korea, where we know who has it. We know everybody that come into contact with. We can trace that contact, and then we can contain it. We miss that opportunity to do that here. I think if we get the genie back in the bottle again over the next few weeks and months, then we can begin again to contact trace and contain as much as possible. Andy Slavitt joining us. We are maybe perhaps, and I, you know, I'm sure I'm speaking now, generalizing, but we can be a self-conscious and a vanity-driven culture at times.

There's a Kardashian element to all of us, and, you know, TV rules our world. And I see people in California wearing masks. And two days ago, I decided I'm just going to wear a mask all the time. And I thought to myself as I did it about every other person here in Los Angeles was wearing it. And I thought, you know, that will be different for us, although I've seen other cultures embrace it for years. I think as we pivot into, let's say, at the end of April, there has to be a really some strong messaging from at the federal level or state level of, listen, this is kind of our new normal. Do you think the masks work to what percentage do they work? And do you think that is a vital part going forward of not just flattening the curve,

but lowering the case count. What color mask did you get? Well, I just got a blue one. My neighbor had one, and I thought, okay, I could put a Laker logo. I live in Los Angeles. But I thought, you know, it was funny. For about an hour, I was self-conscious, Andy. And then I'm like, what do I care?

I want to be safe for my family. So, you know, I'm going to wear it. And it, you know what? After 20 minutes, you look around, you're like, all right, half the public's doing it. I'm over it. Yeah. Yeah. Look, this is how norms develop.

I mean, it wouldn't be surprised if your kids and my kids, kids look back and remember the day when people used to shake hands and say and have their kids tell them, gosh, mom or dad, why did people grab each other by their places that shares the most infections and move it up and down? That was weird. Why did you do that? And so look, these kinds of norms emerge and they become okay. I mean, these, you know, I mean, like, you feel going to be tattoos on masks. There'll be studs on masks. It'll be all kinds. If that's the direction we end up going,

then, then, you know, that's the direction we end up going. But I think what you're doing by wearing that mask is something very important. And I'm guessing you're conscious of it, but I'm going to make sure that others are, is you are showing respect

to other people by showing them that you are not going to get them infected. Because they don't know if you're infected. They don't know where you've been. They don't know if you've got something or you don't. But what you're showing them is that you are unwilling to get them infected or you're going to take steps to make sure or to make it much harder for you to infect them.

And so it's not just about protecting yourself. It's also about being a good neighbor, citizen, person in the country. country who's saying, I'm taking this seriously. And I want to make sure that I don't spread this because I don't know if I have it because I could be asymptomatic. That's a good message seen in that light, not just I'm protecting myself, but I'm protecting you because I care. And so if that's the message that gets sent by this, instead of, you know, kids hanging at the beach and, you know, and people filing with a church elbow to elbow and so forth, which are our normal ways of showing we care about each other.

We could find new ways of showing we care about each other. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, ref, my mom, I want you. you to wave at. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that

loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man.

If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura podcast network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Andy, there was this, was a piece, University of Pittsburgh, possible vaccine.

And my first takeaway is America is, I think, unique in that ideas get implemented into commerce. quicker in America than other countries, not all, but certainly more than most. And I think to myself, I hear that we could fast track it. And what does fast track it mean for a vaccine? Is fast tracking at 12 months instead of 18, 16 instead of 24? So it's interesting about our country is we talked about some of the characteristics that make it harder for us. But there are, I think that we will solve this problem by actually using the amazing and unique strengths of this country. And if we give our scientists a little bit of time, they will catch up to this thing. They understand this thing. They've been watching it under microscope. They have more computing power to run

possible ways of affecting this virus than ever possible. Every smart scientist in the country or the world is focusing on this right now. And so we've got a crush, we've got a crisis of the moment in our nation's hospitals with people getting growing this disease. But if we socially isolate, we're giving our scientists time. And time is for what time is to do more or better testing. time is to develop therapies. And yes, time is to develop vaccines. And you're referring to is a very promising but early development at the University of Pittsburgh around a band-aid-like patch that could provide vaccination.

It's worked in mice, it's been peer-reviewed, not been put in humans yet. But people know the coronavirus well enough that I have a lot of confidence that that we will have scientists that will come up with this vaccine. After the time that it takes, it's not that it takes a lot of time to develop the vaccine. There's really three parts. There's this scientific discovery part, which I think is the easiest part here. The second is, and the reason it takes so long, is you start putting this in humans. You want to see what happens.

Right. I mean, the last thing you want to do is inoculate 40 million Americans and find out that you've killed more people than would have died otherwise. So you need to have them live with it long enough. How long exactly, I think, will be the source of conversations and debate. But if you're going to speed up the process, you know, under normal circumstances, you know, that would be at least the year. But possibly we feel comfortable to be doing it more quickly.

And then to produce the vaccine in mass quantities, you know, you want to produce tens and hundreds of millions of those things. you know, depending on if it's a live vaccine or not, you know, these are, it's not like necessarily running a photocopier, just printing pages as fast as you can, it's creating the production capacity. So what we need to do, in my view, is we need to start creating the production capacity before the vaccine completed. So our factories are just ready to go.

This particular vaccine at the University of Pittsburgh, if it did become the end, It's actually easier to produce in scale because it's not a live vaccine. And it's actually easier because you put it on your arm instead of a shot. But, you know, my guess, my hope, next week we'll be reading about another possibility and another possibility and another possibility. And that's good because not all of them will pan out. But I think we should, you know, we should assume we're going to be a good bit into 2021. before we have a working vaccine.

Andy, 30 minutes today that I think made all of us smarter. You have a new podcast, and if you would, share with us how often where I can get it, what you discuss going forward. Started because my 18-year-old son, who is now forced to spend time with me, said, hey, dad, should we start a podcast? And as I thought about it, first of all, I wanted to do something with my son because he's 18 and the fact that he was willing to do anything with me whatsoever was I was going to say yes too. But I thought about, you know, there'll be a lot of media, there's a lot of media out there about coronavirus, about data, about facts, about science, and some of them are going to be quite good. But I felt like I wanted to do with, I call it 50% Winston Churchill, 50% Fred Rogers. which is, can I find a family-friendly way of talking to people about the very strange time period we're living through? And what it means to be in your own bubble and the fact that it's scary in all sorts of ways

and that there aren't necessarily readily available apparent answers, but to find a thoughtful, gentle way of presenting the facts from the bunker here, and allow people to, you know, my vision of it is that people and families are able to listen to it together. Yeah. And it'll make it easier to go through this shared experience together. So that's my aspiration. I love doing it with my son. We've got an amazing set of guests.

Our first podcast was out this week with Mark Cuban. We put it, we're putting up a surprise, well, we put up, since it's Saturday when you're playing this, I'll tell you, we'll put up a surprise episode. last night what I I get the privilege of being able to talk to senators and CEOs and others and what I did as I said I'm going to bring these things to people

I'm not going to keep these conversations private so I got a call from a senator and I asked her if she minded if I recorded the conversation for the podcast and she said sure yeah and so there'll be a surprise episode that came out last night or

I don't have a surprise but it's an impromptu episode But they'll keep doing that in ways that allow people to stay informed, but not, you don't need to be scared. People need to be scared anymore than they already are. They need to be able to get through these times together. Yeah. You know, Andy, there's a psychological, emotional ramification for isolation, obviously, and then you lump in, add-on, pile on unemployment. Your voice today has mostly been one that, is it fair to say you are hopeful going forward, cautious but hopeful.

You've got to be. I mean, look, my generation, you know, we haven't been through anything quite like this before. People have been through much more difficult things throughout history. They get through them. The vast majority of us are going to come out the other end of this. There's only two questions, I think, that we'll answer for at the end of that, which is, one, how many lives did we lose along the way? And so we got to make that as small as possible. And secondly, what did we? do during this time to make life better for others, whether it's bringing some homemade suit to a neighbor who's isolated or something else, whatever. We all have the power to do something. And I think we all want to be able to look back on this period. And we'll all have to answer the question, you know, what did we do? And because it's hard for all of us, we've got to help each other. I think that's the simple matter of the fact.

And we help each other. We do those things. We're going to save people's lives. We're going to get through this. Andy, good luck going forward to you and your son and your family. And thank you for educating all of us today. You too. Nice talking to you.

Thanks, Annie. Hope everybody enjoyed our Saturday morning podcast. Again, I'm going to try to do one for tomorrow's Sunday as well. Just add them up. Give you more opportunities if you're at home and listening to podcasts or walking through a neighborhood. Or not, you're in an apartment and you're just, want to be entertained or informed. So Andy Slavitt,

head of Medicare and Medicaid for former president of Barack Obama. Wharton School of Business, MBA at Harvard, certainly qualified, thoughtful, and we hope you enjoyed it. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story, behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source,

the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funny.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kier Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit are armored. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.