The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Interview 2018

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Today we have a classic episode of the show for you! Shortly after the creation of the Action Network and the Supreme Court's repeal of PASPA, Chad Millman sat down with his old chum Colin Cowherd for a freewheeling conversation back in the summer of 2018. They talk about the future of sports betting contest, why Colin despises too many choices, how to build a TV show that gets ratings, and so much more. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, it's us The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless, and at the French Open, only the toughest survive.

I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French win. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now,

and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the I-Hart Radio your app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the favorites, the podcast, part of the volume podcast network. I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. Hi, everybody. This is producer Matt Mitchell. Chad and Simon are still on vacation. So today I've got a special treat for you. Seven years ago this week, shortly after the creation of the Action Network,

and long before the advent of the Volume podcast network, Chad Millman welcomed his longtime friend Colin Coward onto the podcast. The favorites was called The Buffet at the time, and PASPA had just been repealed by the U.S. Supreme Court, opening the floodgates for legalization of sports betting nationwide. In this episode, you'll hear Chad and Colin discuss the future of sports betting content, We'll learn why Colin hates too many choices, how he approaches building a TV show, and a whole lot more. I hope you enjoy it.

The show is off on Thursday. So on behalf of everyone here at the Favorites Podcast, we wish you a very happy, healthy, and profitable Independence Day. And happy birthday, America. Enjoy. I have a good friend who also is probably the most talented radio hosts. And you could include sports and non-sports in that working in the biz today. My former castmate at ESPN, who I was on a show with for two years, now at Fox, starring on all various platforms for Fox Sports.

Mr. Colin Cowherd, how you doing, buddy? Hey, how are you doing? I'm doing great, man. We got so much exciting stuff to talk about because you and I have been talking about sports betting in the mainstream space. honest to God, we probably became friends in like 2011 when I moved with the magazine of Bristol and we would talk about it on your show and then we were doing Collins football show on Sunday

me you and Tom Waddle which was so fun. So fun. Maybe the greatest professional experience any of us It still ranks as the most fun I've ever had in my career that was so fun. I mean that show Honest to God you know there are times you know because we are starting something brand new at action network and honest to God like

I am shooting this in our studio, which doubles as our conference room. And it is not all that dissimilar from the studio we had for Collins football show. It is like a converted closet. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a believer in, if you can't be, we knew the show was never going to be NFL live. So once you know, you're not, it wasn't a ratings play. What it was going to be is kind of an iconoclastic, weird contrarian play. And we went into that show with a perfect mindset of let's do a show where a guy wakes up on Sunday.

And what would he laugh at? We had cartoons on that damn show. Because once you get out of the pressure of, okay, at SportsCenter 6, you got to get a rating. We knew we were on Sunday morning, right? So once you're out of that space, you get all this freedom to just be goofy and funny. And I thought it was such a liberating fun show. It really was. But the best part about it was, there were times where I would be sitting with you at the desk or Waddle would be sitting with you at the desk or you would be doing your monologue.

And people would just, we would just start yelling at each other. Like, cat calling either a comment. Like, there were so many times where I would like say something to you about a game and we had this segment where like you'd ask me what are the wise guys thinking. And I'd tell you if you were right or wrong based on your premise. And like Waddle would just come in from left field with the strange. comments as if like we were listening to him, as if we were sitting in someone's living around. Well, it's the one thing I miss about doing local radio is that you could burn segments

on just goofiness. And now every segment I do, I mean, it's charted, graft, that there's a number to it. It's sponsored. So it's a bit reductive where you're doing the same kind of stuff and you have to talk about all the big brands, LeBron, Brady, NFL, NBA. But there is a freedom that when you're not. not playing in the big rating space that you can just be fun and fun's an important part of our business.

Do you ever get sick of having to play in the big rating space? Well, I do find, again, the word I would use as reductive, I do find that once you go to television and that's big boy business and I'm in a spot now where, you know, I'm trying to get numbers. I'm competing against a Goliath that I do the same topics over and over. my responsibility to make them as interesting as I can. But that's, you know, you can't do lacrosse topics. You can't do top 10 sports movie topics. And some of that is a good, you need that. You can do that in local radio. You can even do it in syndicated occasionally during the summer. But, you know, it's just part and partially. You want to play in the bigger space. That's, that's what you got to do. You've got to talk about mostly the big stuff. You've talked a lot

about, I've heard you talk about this and it was brilliant. Constructing a show, sort of like there's a tree that you're creating and then there are sort of branches that come off of, but you always sort of have that tree. Explain to people like what your philosophy is there. My philosophy for 20 years has always been when a hurricane hits, the weather channel drops all the rest of its weather coverage. They talk about only the hurricane. MSNBC only talked about Trump. Why do I have to talk about a bunch of stuff? It doesn't make any sense. Because when I go to a bar, a restaurant, a movie theater, a grocery store, nobody asked me about anything other than NFL, LeBron, and major topics. So I'm a believer in, you have to go into shows with two trees.

And the trunk is, you know, Brady, if there's a controversy, and the trunk of the tree is LeBron. It's my job to create branches off each. But this idea that you can go into a show and have 12 topics, those shows don't get ratings. When LeBron goes to the Lakers, if he does, I'm going to talk about that for three hours for three straight days. The key is, can I give you seven branches, seven unique angles on it? But, you know, the Weather Channel never has to apologize for staying on storms. Fox and MSNBC never apologized for staying on Trump. Why do I have to apologize because I don't cover regular season baseball, which nobody wants to talk about?

So how much time do you have to spend thinking about what those seven branches are going to be? All day. It's my life. I do two and a half hours of prep every day, which is, you know, a three-hour show, two and a half hours of prep. And I get in the car going home and keep a notepad with me at all times. And, you know, two or three times during the course of a day, if something pops in my head, I write it down. And, you know, it doesn't mean I'm obsessing about it. But I always keep a pen in my pocket or near me.

So if something pops into my head and I'm like, that's an interesting branch of that. But it's actually made my job easier over time because I don't cover 48 college football teams. I keep my eye in about eight, and I don't cover every NFL team. I keep my eye on about 10. I keep my eye on about six NBA teams and about 12 players. And it's an easier way to do it. And this idea that you touch all the bases, it's just not true. Television is redundant and it's repetition.

That's just the reality of the business. That's what it is. Weather Channel, Fox, MSNBC. I think one of the problems with ESPN now, Chad. They don't know what they are. Are you doing journalism? Are you doing opinion? Are you doing highlights?

At Fox Sports 1, we do strong opinions on a small number of topics, and we should never apologize for it. All right. So that is a great transition to gambling, because you and I have talked about this a bunch. You started doing gambling on your radio show long before anybody else was doing it, and you spoke about it. You're going to make picks. You're going to have people on who are going to talk about it.

than we did on the TV show, and you've continued to do it in your new role at Fox, your relatively new role. What do you think happens to your show and what do you think happens to the media writ large when gambling becomes a much more popular thing? You know, I have a theory on this,

and I'm going to throw it to you. I think there's going to be a lot of mistakes made. So even when I do blazing fun, I've always tried to make it entertaining. I want it to be good TV before it's good gambling. Now, I want to get my picks right. Don't get me wrong. I want to go three and two or four and one every week, and I take pride.

I've never been below 55%. I did have one great year. I was like 62, but I try to be in that 55 to 61%. And I feel very – if I go three and two every week, I think that's about as good as a schmuck like me can do. And I do my homework on the picks. But I think there's going to be a lot of mistakes made. I think people are going to forget a tenant of television. Even the Weather Channel.

Okay, let's go to the Weather Channel. The most popular person on the Weather Channel is Jim Cantori because he's the most entertained. And even on Fox News, which does harsh criticism, Bill O'Reilly was the most popular because the show had the most little goofy, crazy things in it. Best Word of the Day, funny arguments. when you do these gambling shows, they've got to be good television first. Okay? Don't give me numbers nerds.

Give me good TV people who get the numbers. Because the gambler is going to watch the stuff regardless. A golfer is going to watch golf regardless. When golf pops is when they have Tiger, when they have a TV star. So when these shows come out, everybody's going to be in the numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers. the winner will be the wildly entertaining TV personality who can figure out the numbers and talk so the layman can get it and guys like you can respect it. That will be the key in this space. Not getting the hardcore numbers guy, getting the guy that's funny, smart, and does get the numbers. And that's my belief, 10 years will look back, that the companies that go into really like, you know, super Uber, heavy gaming expert over entertaining person who can talk gaming, they will lose.

You still have to entertain people. How's that for a theory? How long? I like the theory. I believe in the theory. I'm trying to execute on the theory with what we're doing in the action networks. and you know, by the way, everyone's listening to the podcast, action network.com, go to the Action Network to the buffet page on iTunes, you subscribe, you rate, you review, you unsubscribe, you resubscribe.

Let's push this puppy. That's all we can do is push. But yeah, I agree with you. It's what I've always believed when I was doing it at ESPN, and now that we're doing it here, we're hiring people who know how to translate and keep people entertained and educate, you know, we're putting cheese on. the broccoli. You know what I'm saying? Well, that's why our Sunday show worked. Because it was entertaining first,

and then give you real data. We used to keep your picks to the end. So it was funny. It was goofy. We laughed. We had cartoons. Yeah, but in the end, we got this really smart guy, Chad. And even even with a sense of humor, you gave us real data. And so,

you know, the other thing is, I've always thought that I'm best served as a liaison between people like you who are really smart and the public. I don't want to be as, first of all, I couldn't be as you, but I don't want to be an expert in gambling. What I want to be is no enough. I want to be able to talk a little bit of your language, but I also, when I talk to you, Chad, want to say something that you go, God, that is such a, that is such a mark, because I got to be a dope.

I got to be closer to be a dope than an expert, because I am the public. I am the So when I would bring you on the show and there were five picks, in two of them, you're like, that's a really good, that's pretty good. And then two of them, I was like, whew, you're a mark. And then one of them we can go back and forth. But I've always felt my job in this gambling stuff. I'll be the mark. I want to be able to talk a little bit of gambling lexicon, but I don't want to come across as expert

because I don't think that's any fun for the consumer in the audience. I want them to feel like they're kind of me where they think they know a little bit more than they do, but they're certainly not an expert. I will say the most fun on the show was always when you would give me an opinion that I thought was just so awful. And I would tell you how awful it was. Your face and your eyes would contort into the street. And like, Waddle would start yelling in the background.

And also everyone in the control room would start yelling. And I'm like, I'm thinking like, oh my God, that is a face that I don't think I could ever make. That's like a Jim Carrey face right there. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it. One of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral,

moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelive 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast,

I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. You know what? To me, the fun in it, and I've been doing the blazing five thing forever, the fun and gambling, which is really cool, I always learn something. I always learn something from a sharp. You're a sharp.

And it's amazing. My instincts, I have two or three bully. The only sport I ever really care about betting would be NFL. I've got a few bowl games, but mostly NFL. And I've always had two or three theories, and they've served me well. Like, when my first theory is, if a team that was humiliated, if a team has a capable quarterback, I'm talking about, you know, like about 18 teams in the league, if they get humiliated on national TV, take them the next week.

Because it's not college football where you get humiliated because you lack personnel. Teams are injured, teams aren't prepared, the game plan doesn't work. If a big band gets humiliated, if a Matt Ryan gets humiliated, always, always look for that number the minute it comes out the following week because the public sells very quickly on big TV games. If a team looks like crap, I'm on that football, the public's off them. But that team usually comes back and plays their ass off. So that's just been one of my goofy theories forever, and it made me nothing,

but I have two or three little theories, and that's just one of them. You almost nailed the theory. You almost got it exactly right. Okay, tell me what the theory. The big team that gets killed on national television and you know the public is going to be betting against them. Fade, yeah. And you got it almost there. And then at the very end, you're like, and you know that team is going to come back strong because they got humiliated.

That's not why you bet the team. You bet the team because the bookmakers are going to overcompensate because they know how they can set the line and they can fade that team in a way. way that makes it much more of an advantage for the sharp betters to bet on that team because the point spread is just not going to be as much value on the on the favorite in that particular spot. That's why you do it. It's not because you think they're going to be more motivated. It's because the value is going to be in the point spread.

It's priced better. Let me think of my other big theory I use. That's one of the, oh, here's the other one, is that that's my first one. Look very hard at teams that got crossed. week before as long as they have a capable quarterback. The second thing is there's always one really double-digit line every week, and I immediately take it off the board. That's the one game I refuse to bet. I just take it off the board because they're trap bets, and I hate betting a game where I know I have to root for an inferior product. I'm not going to root for a 13-point dog

to hit a field goal late. So I always take the 13-and-a-half-point spread. I'm like, I don't I don't want to watch that game, and I don't want to have to ever, ever watch a crappy team hopefully cover backdoor. So my two rules, take a good team that gets smoked, and just take the big double-digit number and throw it away. First of all. Now, that's a bad, because the truth is the underdog historically generally covers over 12 points, right? Yes.

Yeah. I should be the first I bet, so the one I always find it as a trap bet. First of all, I gave you, like, a golden nugget to elevate your first theory, and you just glossed over it, moved on to the second one, as if I hadn't even said anything. It's like I didn't even get involved in the conversation. No, your first one was right. I consumed your take, and you were right, and I just promptly moved and segue to a second take. I didn't belittle it, but I simply consumed it and acknowledged that your acumen is much greater than mine. I appreciate the consumption.

I do. The second one is interesting because you're right. To me, those are always the games that I look at first. Like, I'm going to look at that double-digit spread. I'm going to see that even though it's a double-digit spread, 80% of the money is still going to come in on that favorite, and I am absolutely 100% going to bet on that double-digit dog. It's like for years, you know, we used to talk about this show

Every single week we would do this on the show. We would talk about the Jaguars. The Jaguars are 12-point underdogs today. The Jaguars are two touchdown underdogs today. And every single week, you'd be like, how could I take the Jaguars? I'm like, everybody who's a wise guy is taking the Jaguars. Because historically, that's where the value is going to be. That's just, it's covering two touchdowns in the NFL is a really hard thing to do.

It's like covering 28 points in college football. Yeah. But then I'm stuck watching Blake Bortles three years ago trying to beat Pittsburgh. I just hate watching that. That's another reason I don't but underdogs in college football. I hate rooting for crap. I hate having my money on crap. That's my dad's stockbroker advice. I don't, I like buying excellence. I like watching excellence. I hate betting on crap and hoping crap is just good enough to cover. I hate that. But I think that is a particular mindset of yours as someone who you like sports, but you are also practical,

and you think about everything we do from a consumerism perspective and as a product, right? The way you frame your shows, whether it's television or radio, all of the businesses that you're invested in, you think about it's a very clear sort of consumer service-oriented relationship. So you think to yourself, I wouldn't put on crap. No one's going to want crap from me. So it discussed you to have to put forth effort to watch crap or potentially lose money on crap.

I think that is an entire sort of you are offended by that sensibility. That's right. That doesn't make it a smart betting move. My mom said something to me 30 years ago by my dad. She said, your dad's not really a, and I don't even know where this came from, but she goes, your dad's not really a quantity guy. He's a quality guy. And she said, your dad had three suits.

They were gorgeous. He never believed in having 10 average suits. And we just got into discussion. She goes, your dad had three cars in his life. He lived to be 75. He had three cars in his life. He was never a, your dad believed in Spartan furniture, one nice house, couple nice suits. He wasn't a big consumer.

He just believed in, you know, go on two vacations a year that are great, not four that are average. And so I think I got that a little bit from my dad. I'm not a stuff guy. A prime example is I try not to go on Twitter too much, except for to retweet stuff I've already done, edited versions of my TV show or radio show, because I think, I don't think most consumers are on Twitter. My friends aren't on Twitter. The media is. So I think it's just a lot of noise with very little impact. I always believe simple, in a more complicated world, simplicity makes me happier.

Like the world offers you a million choices. That's just more anxiety. I still have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich four days a week when I go home after work. Like the more complicated the world gets, the simpler I get. Peanut butter and jelly every four days a week. I mean, I just, it's the same crap. Everybody, oh, I got to kale this and I got to kale that. I've never eaten fewer things than I eat now, and there's never been more choices.

I think all I think choices equal anxiety, and I don't like anxiety. So I talk fewer topics. I eat eight to 12 things on a repeat basis. I go to – by the way, I have a vacation home. I mostly go to it only, maybe one exception a year. My life gets simpler, the more stuff I have around me. I don't even know how I got off into this tangent, but that's – I don't even know where – that's just the way that my show is.

I just start rambling. I don't even know what I'm talking about. What else are you eating, other than peanut butter and jelly? I have oatmeal every morning with peanut butter and a kale shake. So do I, by the way. Oatmeal and peanut butter every day. Yep. I have a soup for lunch, mostly beans.

I have a piece of fish or a piece of meat every night with a salad, one cocktail, watch a little sports, bed, rinse and repeat. That's my life. That's it. I'm a very boring guy. Cajely mixing this, this, I'm a very boring, boring. I'd be a lot of jobs I'd be terrible at. You're at the pinnacle of your career.

This is when you should be going out, blowing it all, like your kids are getting older, you've like got a nice, comfortable life. You should not be living the life sort of a monastic lifestyle. I know. Listen, I'm not going to say I've never fantasized about wild crazy lifestyle things, but that's just not who I am. It's just not my DNA. And I also think you start believing the hype, fly in private,

you start going too bougie, and I think you lose yourself. And so I tell my wife this all the time, is I don't want to, I don't want to be private, I don't want to be this, this, this, be among the people, relate to people, media people make a lot of money, they put big fences up. I have neighbors jammed all over me. I'm at the dog park every morning. I think you can lose yourself very easily, the richer you get, because the richer you get the let, you know, you can have people do stuff for you. Like I go to the grocery store every day, every day. I know people that don't refuse to go to the grocery store. Oh, I'm going to have it delivered.

I want to go there every day. Again, I don't even know why I'm talking about this. I'm just talking. O'Neill's not going to buy itself. You know what I'm saying? Okay, I got my wife texting me here. You got anything else, Milman? Yeah, I actually have the actual question, which is like,

if you play the segment, you bet your life, you talked about your dad. I know how important, like family was to you growing up. Yeah. What was the biggest ricks you took in your life and what happened? I left college early. about 12 credit shy. I got the phone call. I went to the baseball winter meetings, got home, and the Las Vegas stars, Don Logan, called me and said, do you want a job? And I looked at my mom, and I said, I'm 12 credit shy. What should I do? And she said, I'm not going to tell you.

She said, you're going to tell yourself what to do. And I left without a degree. And it was the best move I ever made. I bet on myself. I didn't think I was going to get that opportunity to go from college to a AAA announcing job. I mean, guys are in this business 10 years before they get to AAA baseball, and it was the best AAA city. It was Vegas. So I bet on myself, and I said, I'm going to leave college early, 12 credit shy, and I'm going to sell minor league baseball, and I'm going to do an inning of play-by-play.

And I just bet on myself, and it was the best move I ever made. I parlayed that into a TV job. I parlayed that into a TV career and a radio career. and it really came down to a very simple thing. I just didn't think I would get that good of an offer at my age and my lack of experience. And I thought I could always go back to college. Las Vegas is never going to offer me a AAA play-by-play job. This usually end up in like Amarillo or Midland, Texas.

I'm like, I got to go for it. And it was a big risk. Like a lot of people were like, what are you doing? You don't have a degree. And I was like, dude, I can get a degree later. I can't get the Vegas job later. And it turned out to be some of my best friends were in that town. And, you know, I don't consider myself a huge risk taker, but that was a risk.

Well, I would say you are a huge risk taker because when is the next time you didn't bet on yourself that you're like, God, that was a screw up? I should have totally done that. I think it did something to me. It gave me confidence. And at the time, I didn't have a ton. It was just a goofy college kid, and I didn't really know what I was doing. and then when I succeeded, there's a domino effect. Like, hey, I can do this again.

And I did it about four or five more times in my life. You know, like I left ESPN, they offered me a bunch of money. It was the big network, and I went to a startup. And it's been great. It's almost like playing the U.S. Open and golf. You want to start really good on Thursday because it lends itself to a good Friday, a good Saturday. If you really go into the tank on, if you shoot nine over on Thursday, you're screwed.

And I'm a big believer in momentum, and it gave me kind of life, professional, momentum that it's been going ever since. Well, I know what it's like to leave ESPN to go work at a startup. Yeah. But by the way, when you start kicking butt here and you already are, this will not be the last place in the world you work. My wife always tells me that now. She's like, you're a young 54?

She goes, you think it's 74? You're going to be doing the herd? She goes, probably not. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. Probably not. 74, you're just going to be hanging out in your house, eat no meal and kale all day. That's it. Wondering, maybe I should have bet on those underdogs.

because I have so much for money. All right, Milman, I got to get out of here. I've got to go and prep for another one of the shows I'm on. All right, thanks for coming on, brother. I'll talk to you later. Chad Milman, ladies and gentlemen, support his cousin. Action Network reminds you, please gamble responsibly. If you or someone you care about has a gambling problem,

help is available 24-7 at 1-800 gambler. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick, and guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk. that David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast

for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Hey, what's good, y'all? you're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.