The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Aaron Rodgers Future, What’s Missing From Knicks? Can UConn Threepeat?

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Colin’s joined by legendary sportswriter and New York Times best-selling author Ian O’Conner! They start with how Rick Pitino was able to take over at St. John’s and turning the program into one of the best in the country, and why he’s one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all-time (4:00).  They pivot to Duke and why the team was able to retain its status as a top college basketball program under Jon Scheyer after legendary coach Mike Krzyzewski retired, and what makes Scheyer such an effective coach (7:15). They move to the NBA and discuss why the Knicks were able to build their best team in years but still needing to make moves to get over the hump and win a title, and whether coach Tom Thibodeau can survive an early round playoff exit (11:45). They try to decipher the lack of clarity surrounding the future of Aaron Rodgers, whether he’ll retire if the Vikings decide not to sign him, and whether the Giants or Steelers would be the better backup plan (23:00).   They discuss UConn basketball taking a step back this year under Dan Hurley, whether it was as ugly behind the scenes as it was on the court and why Hurley was able to overcome some serious roster deficiencies (28:00).  They also debate where the 2024 UConn national championship team ranks amongst the all time greatest college basketball teams (33:00).  They talk about what’s been missing from college basketball in recent years and the NIL has become a life preserver for the sport (37:45). They recap the Dodgers recent moves to build an all-star team and Colin asks whether the Steinbrenner family has made missteps that have led the Yankees to fall behind LA despite making more money (44:30).  Finally, they discuss the decline of the art of the sports column and why Ian gravitated towards writing books (51:30).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. NCAA tournament is officially here. Baseball's around the corner. No better place to get tickets to the games than game time.

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Download game time today. Last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. One of my favorite people in the media. He has New York Times bestselling books on Aaron Rogers, Coach K., Derek Jee, and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume. He's got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley, which is fascinating because Hurley and Yukon have had a spirited and disappointing season. And the book is coming out in September called Never Stop, Life Leadership and What It Takes to be great. Co-written with Dan Hurley. I want to get to that in a second. I want to start with Rick Petino and St. John's. So for the uninitiated, St. John's is in Queens, one of the five boroughs. Used to be in Brooklyn, actually, a long time ago. Catholic University, between the airports, is how I remember being it described to me one time. And it was in the Big East, which is the greatest basketball conference, the most personality-filled basketball conference, at its best in the history between players and coaches. And so Louis Carnaceca ages, leaves. It's not the same

University, many people tried. Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick Bettino and New Yorker, gets the job. So let's start with that. I couldn't tell you the last time, Duke and St. John's, both had a chance to win the title in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But when Rick took the job, I mean, I said this the other day, you know, his moral compass has sometimes flipped around, but in terms of basketball, IQ, EQ, and program building, He is Parcells plus Urban Meyer. He is just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh. What is the secret sauce?

You know, Rick. What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick and so many other coaches that go to these programs, I own a St. John's, and just make it work quickly? Great question. And I think, first of all, I think the two best coaches in the history of the sport are John Wooden and Mike Shoshesky. So if you look at their bodies of work, yeah, I think they're

the top two, but I also believe Rick Petino is just as good as they were. I think that he's as good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense. And it really works at St. John's, and of course it

worked at Louisville. It worked at Kentucky and at Providence, but he's such a New Yorker, and that is such a New York style of play on the playgrounds that it really translates. And this has been a very likable team. The city has fallen in love with St. John's. Now, when I started my career, St. Johns would take the back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks. And so it's been a long time since that was possible. Now, of course, the tabloids aren't what they

used to be in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course. But St. Johns is now a team that the city has embraced. And Patino, that style of play. He did it even with the Knicks. Pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing with that ferocity. And yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play any harder than Rick Petino's teams everywhere he's been, including in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But he's an amazing, when it comes to X's and O's and motivation and recruiting, he's an amazing coach.

There's no question about it. So it is very unique. I have them making the final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, either does half, 90% of the field. I mean, UC San Diego is rare. BYU is rare. St. Johns can't shoot threes.

Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't. I mean, I watched Michigan, Michigan State play a couple of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in the 80s. I don't know how, but they get there. So I don't really use that as a deficit. I think St. Johns can muscle and defend and coach its way to the final four. But going back to my initial point,

you know Duke basketball because of the book on Coach K, which I strongly recommend, You've never read it. It is, I think it's, in my opinion, I think it's your best book. Thank you. And I've read all of them. I loved it. Duke is the most talented team.

Coach K leaves, and usually it almost always works this way. You give it to a popular assistant coach, and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight to hold this massive brand afloat. but Duke this year feels like to me the odds on favorite. Like if they won, it's the only team you wouldn't even ask how. You'd go, okay, Cooper Flagg. Are you surprised by Coach K leaves and yet Duke remains vibrant?

No, I'm not surprised, Colin, I think Duke does recruit itself to some degree, but John Shire's recruiting has been unbelievable since Coach K left. And you start with that, of course, the lifeblood of college basketball in all college sports. And he's been terrific at that. And he's just a really good coach, too, in terms of X's and O's. But if you look at that team right now, it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got the big man, who's 7-2 with an incredible wingspan. He's a top 10, top 15 NBA pick. He's got a forward who's a top 15. On one side, on the other side, you've got one of the best freshman we've ever seen in college basketball,

who's the number one pick, assuming he's healthy and it looks like he's going to play. And in the back court, you've got two guys who are six five at guard. Now, maybe the one question mark you have against a team that has smaller, quicker guards, maybe that's a little bit of an issue. But size, skill, the coaching, the pedigree, everything is in place for Duke to win the national championship. I actually don't think they will, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they do because they probably do have the best team. I actually think Houston is going to win the national title.

And it's a bit of a strange reason. I just think Kelvin Samson has been such a good coach for so long. It seems to me that he's going to get one before he be tires. And you look, really, I know that's kind of a funny reason, but if you look at the way they defend, they have guards, and I just think at some point he's going to pick one off. John Shire is a very worthy coach of winning a national title. If you recall from my book, Coach Kate.

wanted him to be the coach. The university actually wanted Tommy Amaker to be the next head coach, but Coach Kay sort of got his way on that one. And frankly, you cannot argue with the results. John Shire has been tremendous. Yeah, for the uninitiated, again, for the people that don't follow Duke closely or college basketball, what was, boy, that must have been tough. I remember reading about it in your book. You have Amaker and Shire and, you know, And here comes Coach K, eventually, you know, he's going to make a choice. What is Shire's strength? What is this foundational piece that made him the choice and why you think Coach K eventually leaned to him?

Because he was in his system. It had been a long time since Amher had been an assistant at Duke. Of course, he was a very important player in the development of that championship program under Coach K. And has done a good job in the Ivy League. but Shire was there. Shire was a great player. He was going to play of the NBA. He's a serious eye injury early in what would have been, I think, a pretty good NBA career. But the way he relates to kids, I've had just a couple of conversations with him, but have been around enough people who are in his world consistently. And he's just a very relatable guy.

And so I think the fact that he was a really, really good player there. And the fact that he is, he's got the right personality to connect with people. He obviously has the X and O background from Coach K, and you put it all together. And again, it is a campus that does recruit itself to some degree and a program that does recruit itself to some degree. It's a pretty powerful combination. So I said this the other day on the show.

You know, obviously I was in the Northeast for 10 and a half years. But one of the things I observed when I was in the city a lot or near it in Connecticut is that, that, you know, there's a lot of Yankee and Met fans and a lot of giant and jet fans. But everybody in New York likes the Knicks. It's just every single friend I had in New York, and many of them, more than the Yankees are giants, were Nick fans first. And again, I'm old enough to remember the Walt Frazier, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe.

Like, I go back to the 70s when nobody won, you know, the Lakers won a title, the Warriors did, the Washington Bullets did the Son. the Blazers, the Knicks. And then there were the Pat Riley iterations. But I always said, God, if Dolan could get out of the way, this city loves its team so much. And I think when the sphere got built for two years, Dolan removed himself from the facility. I mean, literally, physically, he was in Vegas so often. And it allowed the Knicks to really grow this really strong basketball group.

And I think they've made very patient, very sharp. moves. I don't think Cat is the future, but I think he was the right move at the right time. But there was a moment between Tibbs and Josh Hart the other day, and Mikhail Bridges, it was public that he had gone to Tibbs. Hey, we need to play the starters less. You know, young players don't get a lot of work and minutes under Tibbs. As great as the brief journey has been with Tom, it does feel like, does it not, Ian, to get to the next level, you need two moves. Carl Anthony Towns probably gets replaced with a better defensive big or just like a KD, a greater player, and Tibbs may not be the answer. Or is that me,

3,000 miles away, guessing? No, I think it's possible that's the case. I do think Tibbs is good enough to win a championship as a head coach. They lose in the second round again this year. I don't think he'll get replaced because I think he'll lose to a better team. I think the Celtics are better. And surprisingly enough, I did not think the Cavs would be better, but they are. They just are. So if they lose in the second round to say the Celtics, do you fire the guy off that? You're losing to a better team. The Celtics have better players. The Knicks have improved their roster, certainly, and I didn't think Jaylon Brunson. I wasn't sure if he could be the second best player on a championship team when they acquired him. Now, I do think he could be one of the top two,

if not the best player on a championship team. He's an incredible player, and I think a lot of people in New York were surprised by that. I think where the Knicks are right now is it's kind of funny because Jets fans have been complaining and complaining about Woody Johnson, the owner for a long time.

If Woody Johnson hires, and we'll find out if he did, the right general manager in Mugi and the right head coach and Aaron Glenn, he's going to go away and Jets fans will never talk about him. They are, Knicks fans are not talking about Jim Dullin, and they have it now for a number of years,

because he hired the right general manager. And that was a gamble. Leon Rose had never done this job. He was a very good agent. He had never been a general manager. And early on, I wasn't so sure, but turns out he knows what he's doing. And Tibbs, of course, everybody knew he knew what he was doing. He's proven that he could be a very valuable piece of a coaching staff that won a championship in Boston under Doc Rivers.

And so is he, it's almost like a book showalter did all the dirty work on the Yankees in the mid-90s. and then he got replaced by Joe Tori, and Joe Tori then won the World Series. So I'm not saying that the next coach is going to win four titles in the next five years after that happens. But I think that he's going to get one more year after another second round exit. Maybe the Knicks will surprise us

and win that second round matchup with, say, the Celtics, I don't think that will happen. But I do think you're right in terms of the roster. It looks like they're still, believe it or not, after all the moves they've made, and what, five number one picks for bridges and then they made the Cat deal and the Brunson deal was an incredible one.

It still looks like they need to make one more move and maybe Cat is a part of that package. But, yeah, right now they're in a tough way because of the Celtics being in their way and now the Cavs have hurtled them and they sure look like they're for real. Yeah, I think the Hartinstein move, which I think they were kind of trapped.

That's not much they could do. I thought he added some real toughness and rebounding that's very hard to replace. Cat is a more gifted offensive player, but he's not the toughest guy in the league, and he's a poor defender. Hartenstein had this sort of New York toughness, just a fighter on the glass, and it felt like he was just part, he almost felt like he had that Villanova feel. He was just an overachiever and a fighter. And I think sometimes in the NBA, it's not what you want to do.

It's what you have to do, and they let him go to OKC, and it doesn't quite feel like the same team. Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are all the new ways to get in on the action at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Slams, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players, prop bets you can make on Draft Kings. It's fun.

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We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Oden, Kirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening. at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can

win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Aaron Rogers thing has been interesting because you wrote the book on him, so you know him pretty well. And I didn't think his, I don't think his football, he's fine. He's, you know, somewhere between the 13th and 16th best quarterback.

He's fine. I don't think he's quite as committed as the young great ones, and I don't think he moves like the young great ones. he's smart. But when Aaron Glenn came in, and for the second time in Aaron's career, he was caught off guard a little by a team saying, hey, thanks, but no thanks, according to reports that, you know, Aaron had flown cross country, meeting with him, and Aaron Glenn was like, we're going to move on. and to me, downgraded at quarterback.

I mean, when you write a book on Aaron, you think you have a feel or a vibe for I said this the other day. If the Vikings say no thanks, I think he retires. When you look at how the season went, and now we're in this flux period, are you surprised or could you have predicted it based on the over 100 people you talk to in the conversation with Aaron? I think I'm not surprised that he, I think the overriding feeling right now is that he still wants to play in maybe two years. I had a friend of his tell me two years a week ago because he kind of

feels like this past season, Colin, was a rehab year. And so if he has a good 20, 25, I really do expect him to try to play in 26. But we'll even play at all. Retirement is on the table. I think, I don't think the Vikings are going to sign him. That would be the best case scenario. But if you, let's say you put the Vikings roster, or the Steelers and the Giants had an equivalent talent base as the Vikings. Same coaching, same talent. I actually think he picked the Giants because he does really like living in the New York, New Jersey area, despite the fact that the Jets thing was effectively a two-year disaster. I do think if the Giants had a Vikings roster, I actually think he would pick the Giants.

He has respect for that organization. They've had good conversations. I've talked to a couple people with the Giants who said they have no issues with him as a locker room presence, as a personality. They don't care. They think he's the best available quarterback and they want him. They've made a good offer. If I had to put 20 bucks down today, I think he'll be the starting quarterback for the Steelers. Because I think he'd prefer the Vikings.

But the Steelers, I think, really do want him. They've made that clear. And Mike Tomlin gives him the kind of coaching. Last year, Colin, I've been doing this almost 40 years in the New York market. That is one of the two or three worst coaching jobs I've ever seen in any sport in New York. And so to go from that to Mike Tomlin, if Mike Tomlin coached the 2024 Jets, they would have gone 10 and 7. I'm convinced of that. That was a 10 and 17 that went 5 and 12 with horrific coaching.

So I think with the Steelers and with the playmakers they have now and that roster and particularly the coaching, I think Aaron can go 10 and 7, maybe 11 and 6 and get back in the playoffs, and maybe that's the way to end his career. I think where the Giants are right now, because they don't have that roster that we were talking about earlier with the Vikings, he's looking at that saying, geez, do I want to finish my career going 5 and 12 for one New York team and 5 and 12 for another? Have you looked at the Giants' home schedule? Let me run these eight games by you. And you tell me, they're going to be. They play nine on the road next year and eight at home. You tell me who the Giants are beating from this group. Dallas, okay? I think they can beat Dallas.

But then they're playing at home, Philly, Washington, Green Bay, Kansas City, the Chargers, the Vikings, and the 49ers. How many of those games are they winning? Maybe two, if they're lucky, they go two and six at home. Then on the road, they're at Dallas, they're at Philly, they're at Washington, they're at Denver, they're at Detroit. How many of those games are they winning? So I think Aaron is smart enough to look at that.

say, do I really want to go five and 12, even if I play better? And even though I don't think the jet thing is really going to hurt his legacy, I don't think 10, 15 years from now when he's already in the Hall of Fame as a Packer, people are going to be talking about his experience with the Jets. But if he does that again with a second team, I do think I'll hurt his legacy. So to me, if the Vikings aren't interested and they're going with McCarthy pretty much right way. I think the Steelers make a lot of sense. I think Tomlin is a built-in insurance policy that it won't be a disaster. I think he should do that. I think he'll play better. I think he'll make the playoffs. And that's the way to go out. All right. I want to go back to basketball. Dan Hurley

and the Hurley family, obviously, they're smart, they're aggressive. They're sort of baked into our college basketball ideology and culture over the course of my life. You know, the dad, the coach, Bobby, Dan. The only thing I've ever worried about Dan Hurley, and I think this is sort of a problem that arises with great success and the kind of personality types that often flourish in college, which are, you know, they need, they're very good with control. Nick Saban, Bobby Knight, Urban Meyer. They flourish with control.

That's why they don't like professional football. They lack, they don't have, they can't get their arms quite around the program. you're dealing with agents, you're dealing with impulsive owners. So it's like the duality of life. Your greatest strength is often becomes a burden. And I look at Dan Hurley's kind of treatment of the officials, and there's talk that he's, you know, he's gotten more difficult in the athletic department. I see that he's co-writing a book with you instead of, you know, you're writing it. It is, and I look at this from afar, because I like and I've talked to him, and I really like him. And I really enjoy when I was in Connecticut, I became very fond of the Yukon program.

And I think one of the great coaches of my time is Jim Calhoun, who built a powerhouse in Stores, Connecticut. You've been around in this season. Was it as ugly close to the program as it was from the outside, starting in that, was it Maui tournament, you know, early in the season? Lovely of Maui. But they recovered from that. And he did to some extent, I think he was wounded. by some of the criticism, but later acknowledged that his behavior on the sideline was too much. It was over the top.

And I think he only has the one technical on the mainland, as he said recently, and that was it. And he did get caught saying, I'm the best coach in the bleeping sport. He didn't know the camera was on him. Of course, he had the thing at Creighton, the two rings, two rings, baldy thing. And I think, I don't know, that one didn't bother me so much because it was Dollar Beer Night at Creight. So you invited a guy from Jersey City to Dollar Beer Night. You cursed him out for two hours and 15 minutes, and then on his way off the court, following his interview, he got cursed out again, and he said some things, and I didn't have a problem

of that. But I think that Yukon has been all over the map with this season. At times, they've looked like a top 10 team. After Maui, they beat Gonzaga, Texas, and Baylor. And once McNeely got hurt and missed eight games, he's their best player, he's going to be a lottery pick. just the season sort of went sideways a little bit. It's been inconsistent. Better of late, they've won, what, five of their last six,

and of course, lose to Creighton and the Big E-Semies. But they're a team, I'll say this, Colin. And Dan, I actually think, has done a really, really good coaching job. Roster construction, maybe not so much. It's almost like he's overcome his own construction of the roster. And there are a lot of holes with this team, and he's coached his way around those holes and got them to a point where, okay, they're an eight seed.

I think they'll beat Oklahoma, and I think they'll scare Florida in round two and probably lose that game. But if you told me, and the way this season has gone, if you told me they could upset Florida in round two, I would believe it. If you told me they were going to lose

to Oklahoma in round one, I would believe it. That's the way this season is gone. But I would say this, if I'm the gators, I feel wronged a little bit. Like, you're telling me, after the season we've had as a number one seed,

I'm getting Dan Hurley and the Huskies Yeah, the team at certain points of this year, they played like a top 10 team, and they're a two-time defending champion. I don't want them in the second round as a number one seed. So, yeah, listen, with Hurley, it's always interesting. Behind the scenes, one thing, Colin, I think a lot of people don't realize nationally. I think in Connecticut they do is behind the scenes, he has a holistic approach to coaching his kids.

They know he loves them. Now, that's not something he grew up with, with his dad, with coaches in the Big East, with his own coach in the Big East. But he learned and the fact that he got screamed at during games and he remembers how that felt. People don't realize that in games, it is rare when he ever screams at an individual player. Now, in timeouts, he'll get on the group, he'll challenge them.

You have to do that as a coach. Half time behind the closed locker room door, he'll challenge guys. But during a game in front of a lot of people watching on TV and in the arena, He almost never screams out a player. And there are times when I'm looking for him to do it because some egregious mistake will be made and he doesn't do it. So I give him a lot of credit for that, and I just don't think he gets any credit for that as well.

Yeah, well, I also think sometimes we compare, which is, of course, the Thief of Joy, the 37 and three Yukon Huskies that won the national title. To me, this is just my opinion, was the best college basketball team from coaching to construction since Billy Donovan's two-time champion Florida Gators, they could do everything. They had so much dexterity in size,

the ability to defend the rim, the wing, the point. I thought Billy Donovan's teams, that second year when he brought them all back, that was a machine. And, I mean, they were, I mean, humiliating good teams. I think Yukon's the best team I've seen since then. I mean, all of those guys that went to the NBA, from Portland to San Antonio,

they've all been outstanding. So I don't think in today's NIL, when people cherry pick you and recruiting is every man for himself, I think we have to be, even Coach K had certain champions that didn't live up to the Grant Hill, you know, Bobby Hurley, Leitner level teams. I think over the course of time, Dan Hurley may look back and think, Jesus, I was a young coach, that's the best team I've ever had. I mean, you know college basketball. You can be encyclopedic. I thought last year's team was insane. I really did. I put last year's team right there with the early 90s Vegas teams and Duke teams. And those were machines too. Even though Duke derailed Vegas, I think going into that final four,

that might have been the best team I'd ever seen, Tark and UNLV. I covered them. Yeah, I know you did. And yeah, so I think the Yukon team from last year and four guys go to the NBA. And yeah, that's right there with the best college ballot. basketball teams of my lifetime, no question. And I think one thing that should be pointed out is Billy Donovan, off those back-to-back NCAA championship teams, didn't go to the NCAA tournament in year three.

He went to the NIT. Coach K wins back-to-back in 91-92 and 93 loses them the second round. If Dan Hurley can find a way to beat Oklahoma and then Florida, he will be the first coach since John Wooden with a back-to-back championship team to get to the Sweet 16. That's how hard it is to maintain it. Now, you look today in college sports, maintaining anything is next to impossible because there's perpetual free agency. Everyone's a free agent.

I think Dan, this Austin, he's really going to look at it because he likes building something and maybe adding pieces from other programs but not running a mercenary program where you just grabbing pieces from everywhere else. He likes to build and likes to have a core of homegrown talent. But can you do that? And I'm watching St. John's play Yukon, right? Liam McNeely, again, top 15 NBA pick, best player. He's a freshman.

You're talking about a kid who's now, what, 18, 19 years old? And I see him covering Kadari Richmond to St. John's. Kadari Richmond did a year of prep school, and this is his fifth year in college. Excellent player, but he's like, he's 24. And I'm seeing the two standing next to each other. Kadari Richmond looks like an NBA player, physically strong and mature guy. just knows how to play the game and McNeely looks like a teenager. So it's hard.

When you're playing against these programs that have older, stronger guys who've played at multiple schools, good luck with that. I think the coaches who like to build and keep homegrown talent, it's a bit of a problem right now. You know, you have always picked iconic people to write books about Belichick, Jeter, Coach K, Aaron Rogers, now Dan Hurley, who, if he stays in college basketball for another decade, will win more titles. Stores is built for it. And so is he. And they really, people, again,

they really dominate like a four-state region of recruiting, which is, you know, especially if you look at Hurley, you know, he gets those, people just, you know, out west, they think there's so much talent in Los Angeles, but it gets splintered. You know, UCLA gets one. USC gets one.

Arizona gets one. Gonzagin gets one. Oregon gets one. Boy, in that Northeast Corridor, you know, Yukon can really get, now that Jay Wright's gone, he was getting the DMV cherry picking that. It's, you know, it's just funny right now, Yukon and St. John's, if Patino stays for five years and Hurley stays for five. In this city that we think about baseball and football in the Knicks, these college basketball programs, it's like the halcyon days of the sport. It's, I feel like New York, you know, everybody thinks college basketball is dead. but with NIL, Ian, a lot of these players are not going to go to the G League.

They're going to stay at college for one more year. So I feel like college basketball has had like been semi-dead. It's been a three-week sport for a decade. And I kind of feel like the NIL is a life preserver for it. I think you're right. And it's crazy. You saw Steve Alford's rant about it, which was entertaining. And a lot of what he said is true.

but listen, and what's also true is college basketball needs rivalries. They need people to stay. So you need Hurley and Petino for another few years because there is real tension there in that relationship. And that's a very good thing. I just think Dan Hurley overall is good for sports and college basketball. Yes. Because you need villains too.

And I think dynasties are good. I think evil empires are good. Villains are good. You need that. And you're right. College basketball has been a three to four weeks. sport. And in New York, New York's really a pro town. But when St. John's is this good, St. John's can take over in New York City. It can take New York away from the Knicks. Yeah. And so I, listen,

what's Rick Petino now? 72. I think he can coach another five years. He's got so much energy. And now everybody is going to want to play for him. Yukon is always going to get players. Dan Hurley is going to win at least another championship too. I do think at some point you'll try the NBA, maybe a little bit down the road. But that Hurley-Patino thing, that could carry the sport, particularly on the East Coast. And I think it plays out that way.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas, we invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. People could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters. street or Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset,

and what it really takes to win on clay. Genschen went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerna Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, Founding Partner, a partner, I heart women's sports. I'll wrap it up with this. You know, I was saying this today. It's easy to hate California. The weather's beautiful.

The California economy. Our governor looks like an older Abercrombian Fitch model. You know, all of our teams, you know, it's the beaches. But I also think the teams out here well-run. Sean McFay, Jim Harbaugh, the Dodgers, research and development and scouting. The Yankees make about $150 million more annually a year than the Dodgers do, believe it or not. But the Dodgers, because of the way they have structured contracts, have literally an all-star team. I'm not sure I've ever seen an entire roster that has like five starting pitchers with or without Shohay Otani and a Freddie Freeman, Mookie, Buckeye Otani, Max Muncie, Teoska Hernandez.

It's just like one big bat after another. So when Garrett Cole goes down and Soto leaves, you know, there's this, there's this sense of, okay, let's just go get somebody. And, you know, I kind of look at it, and it's not that they don't have the money. And it's not that they don't have the stomach for it. But I feel like George Steinbrenner, there was, you know, he made his money, I think, in Cleveland. Evelin initially or something, if I recall. Sitel then, yeah.

Yeah, but if you look at Steinbrenner, I don't know what they did an annual basis, but not all his business decisions were good decisions. They weren't all good financial decisions. I mean, he was buying guys left and right. I see Yankee fans complain about, like the kids don't want it as much as George. Is that fair?

Yes and no. I think that certainly how Steinbren has proved, not cheap. He gave Aaron Judge the big money when he had to, and he offered Soto $760 million. So it's hard to say he's cheap, certainly, I think relative to his father. Here's one thing that's different. And, you know, we haven't seen, we didn't get a chance to see George Steinbrenner in this era of baseball competing against that Dodger ownership, which I believe is an investment firm with about $300 billion in assets. George didn't have to compete against the Guggenheim partners, right? So, but George, one thing that's different, how three years ago, I believe it was in spring training, talked to some beat writers.

And they questioned him about the payroll and some money that wasn't being spent on talent. And he said that there are banks and partners and lenders that I have to deal with and I have to answer to. And I can tell you this, Colin, I had a lot of conversations with George Steinberg over the evening. I never heard him talk about a bank, a lender, a bondholder, a partner, ever. He did not care. I actually think, like, I don't know if he cared about turning a profit. I just think that he was so driven to win and win at all costs. I actually think even if he couldn't afford it, I don't know if he would have let Steve

Cohen get Juan Soto. And I'm not criticizing how Steinbrenner for laying out $760 million and not giving him a sweet. I think that, you know, Cashman said, we didn't give Derek Jr. a suite. We didn't give Garrett-Culles suite. We didn't give Aaron Georgia suite for free. If you want a suite and we're giving me a $760 million, you've got to pay for it. I'm sorry. So I have no problem at that stance. But I do think there is a difference, certainly in the approach of George Steinbrenner and Hal, I think you have to put it in context. Hal is dealing with the Guggenheim partners and George did not have to deal with that. One thing I'd say about Soto, I don't know, I don't

think I would have made that move to the Mets. The money was just a little different, and it seemed like he preferred Steve Cohen's approach to Howes. But I grew up a Yankees fan. I'm biased. I was a Thurman, Reggie guy in the 70s, and I don't leave Aaron Judge, and I don't leave that right field ports, and I don't leave the tradition. When you can be the next Mickey Mantle or Joe DiMaggio and you're 25, 26 years old, you stay with the Yankees. But he decided to go to the Mets. The problem is, now that he goes to the Mets, he made it that much harder to get to the World Series. Why? Because in the American League, who do the Yankees, even without Garrett Cole now, without heel, without stand for a while? The American League, who are they dealing with? Who do they have to get through? Then you look at the

National League. You've got to get through the Dodgers. You've got to get through the Phillies, maybe a little bit, the Plagueys, but particularly the Dodgers. You don't put yourself on the same side of the draw as the Los Angeles Dodgers, and that's what Soto did by going to the Mets. And if he ends up winning free rings over the next 12, 13, 14 years, God bless him. But I just think he made it that much harder to do by going to the National League. Yeah, I think that's really well put.

I mean, God, the Padres are young. I mean, like, I have like either six or seven really good players in their prime, had a guy that could have been a rookie of the year last year. Dodgers are stacked, Akuna back for the Braves. It really is. And for the record, you know, nobody would be shocked if the Phillies end up in the, you know, National League championship series against the Dodgers. So, whereas I feel like we've seen the best of Houston.

I kind of feel like we've seen the best of it. Maybe that's not true. But some of those players that were in their prime four years ago or they're just, you know, it doesn't feel quite the same. So, you know, and the Red Sox are better with Breggman. They're a factor now. And so, you know, the Yankees will have to certainly deal with them. But they own the Central every year, whenever they play one of those teams in the playoffs, they win.

And so, yeah, I just, that's really what I looked at more than anything else when so was making the decision. First of all, I'm not leaving Aaron Judge. It's impossible that he said, okay, we're the modern day Ruth and Garrig. He's always going to be Ruth. I'm always going to be Garrig. If I go to the Mets, I'm there, Ruth. And he's the best player they've likely ever had. And so I don't know if being the man, for lack of a better term, was important to him.

It's not something he ever verbalized. But now there's no question. That's his team. With the Yankees, it was always going to be one in one A and he was one A. My suspicion is human nature being what it is, that was something of a factor in his decision. Ian O'Connor. He'll have a book coming out. It's a while down the road in about six, seven months. It's with Dan Hurley. Never Stop. Life leadership and what it takes to be great. Dan Hurley coming out in September. One of my favorites. Now, you're not writing a column anymore. I know that was your choice. Just, you know, the regression of that side of the business. Everything changes. You're busier with your family than ever. Do you just wake up one day and say, I've been a column, must a long time. I'm going to do the book thing. That pretty much was it, but I was doing both, and it got to a point where the workload was such that I don't know if I could do books the way

I want to do them and dive in and talk to hundreds of people and report the hell out of these things and still write four or five columns a week. And I'm not saying I'll never go back to it. I don't know if I'll go back to it full time. Yeah, column writing is a little bit of a lost art. It's unfortunate. it. I still think there's a real place for it in commentary in this country. And there are some people who are just incredible columnists. And obviously, we lost John Feinstein, who was a great columnist beside being an author. And he was someone I always looked up to as just a guy who was great of both and could do both. It was so prolific. And I admired that and envied it. And one thing about John, and let's say you're the same way, Colin. If I run into you somewhere, we could just have a

conversation, talk about five million things, John was a real titan of the industry. And I used to tell them this, we'd sit down at the masters and have conversations about anything. And I say, a lot of people who've achieved what you have in our industry would not have this conversation with me. You just would be unapproachable. Don't ever change. If you change, I'm going to call you out on. And he used to laugh. So if he ever got a little Larrogate, which he would at times, I would say, are you turning into that person? I warned you not to turn into. And we would get a kick out of that. But yeah, so there's a person who did it for so long at such a high level, both being a columnist, a lot of college basketball, but other sports as well.

And an author, that's the person I really looked up to in this business, probably more than anyone. How was the book Season on the Brink viewed among writers? Transcendent? Yeah. It still is, and I think his passing, unfortunately. But I think we'll send younger people maybe who didn't get a chance to read it back to that and look at it and see. It created a genre of books, and it was just so, so good. And what I love column is that Coach K, and I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to credit the report who got this interview.

It might have been Pete Tham. I might have been Pat 40, but somebody talked to Coach K the other day when John passed away. and he said that, he basically said, Knight didn't understand that John really did him a favor. He showed Bob Knight, the real Bob Knight, to the reader, to the fan. And that that book was a great book,

and it portrayed Knight the right way, and it was very fair. And I was glad that Coach Kay said that on the record because when I've read that book, I did not think Knight was portrayed as a monster. No, no, I didn't either. But I think a lot of people, I think Bob might thought he was portrayed as a monster.

Sure. And he wasn't. He humanized him, in fact. I thought he did him a favor. So, yeah, that book, I have never met a sports writer, as bitter as sometimes we can be, whoever said anything but just extraordinary things about that work. Now, some of John's other books maybe didn't max. That'd be impossible to churn out books to match that level of greatness. But that is right there with Moranis' book on Vince Lombardi as among the two or three best sports books I've ever read. Ian O'Connor is always, I love talking to you, man. I wish I lived out east.

I see you more often. Yeah. Well, listen, it's always an honor to be with you and a pleasure. And just thanks for having me, Colin. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make. you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris.

Jench won. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a bogo. Well, then you got it. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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