The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - ABC Reinstates Jimmy Kimmel, Packers HUGE Advantage, New York vs. Chicago Sports

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Thing’s First” on FS1. They start with Jimmy Kimmel being pulled off the air before being reinstated and agree that Disney CEO Bob Iger made the right call (3:00), and that Kimmel’s popularity and likeability amongst California’s creative class added additional pressure on Iger (9:30). They also discuss the level of responsibility people with large platforms have to speak out on major political and news issues (14:00), and balancing talking about issues they find interesting versus what their audience wants to hear (25:30). They pivot to baseball and Colin argues the most interesting teams and stars are playoff bound which is good for the business of MLB (35:00). They discuss Danny’s move from Chicago to New York and contrast and compare the sports and sports fans of those cities (38:30). Colin highlights the huge advantage the Green Bay Packers have over the rest of the league by not having an impulsive, impatient billionaire owner that meddles with the team(49:00), but Danny argues they were fairly lucky with drafting quarterbacks (54:00).  Finally, Danny explains why he’s changed his position of wanting to fire NFL coaches for bad game management decisions and has gained a great understanding of the full sense of what makes a good coach, and they discuss the multiple factors that go into making a great coach (1:00). All lines provided by hardrock.bet (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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talk, the college football playoff, I said, you know, me and my brand is like football and sports, and that's what it is. And I don't want to dilute it at all. If Stephen A. Smith loves it, knock yourself out. I don't want to work that hard. But it was interesting because one of the only times I thought, ooh, should I have an opinion, but I didn't because I was busy and doing stuff and they didn't care. It was the Jimmy Kimmel situation where, listen, I just don't think it's a bad precedent. I don't care what somebody says, how offended you are. Don't take comedians off the There, don't, don't. And by the way, the left was doing it with comedians years ago. They were getting called out for jokes. And now the rights upset with Kimmel. But I, but one of the things I thought about was that in the end, Bob Iger, who I know a little bit, Disney is huge globally. It is massive in Southern California. And Bob's going to retire. I know where he lives in California. He loves it. And my take was he surround,

Disney is a company full of artists. I mean, it really is. It's, it's, that's what it is. The theme parks used to drive it. I'm not sure the percentage of revenue, but, you know, so much of Disney now is movies and Hulu and all this stuff. And my takeaway was, in the end, I thought Bob Eiger probably sat down and went,

and I think Gavin Newsome thinks this way. This is my state. I literally have the support of half the state, many of which are artists, creatives, screw next art. It's local TV. I mean, it's like ninth on our rung. And I really wondered, I thought, like, if you're Gavin Newsom and you're Bob Iger,

and basically your support in the state is overwhelmingly these creative industries, and you're like, well, Kimmel's in a creative space. I don't care if the president hates me. I wonder, and that was my take on it, that everything in my life, every big decision comes down to sex, power, and money. nobody else. You know what I mean? Seriously, when you're talking about big corporations,

it's, I mean, it could be the White House, it could be Main Street, it could be any Wall Street. And that why do you think, and if you don't like this question, you can talk bears, but why do you think ultimately Bob Eiger just said, now we're just going to put them back on? Well, first of all, because it was the right thing to do.

I think, you know, you said a lot there, and I've got a lot of thoughts on this, obviously, so I can go as long on this as you want to, but this is the right thing to do. This was a pretty clear-cut freedom of speech issue, and everyone from Ted Cruz and Ben Shapiro and George Clooney and Merrill Street and Joe Rogan, everybody came out against this.

This was a fairly cut and dry. Yeah, it was an easy one. It was an easy one. And so I think that when you see that reaction to it, I don't know how much credit I'm supposed to give you for, like, ultimately doing the right thing because it was so universal. It was so easy. So I don't think about that. Also, though, to your point about Hollywood and like being comfortable where you live,

Kimmel is so popular in Southern California among the Hollywood elite, right? like the his green room when it when he first started doing a show 20 years ago was like the Hollywood hang out people call him you know the mayor of Hollywood he he is as likely to hang out with magic Johnson as he is Jennifer Aniston and then he when he started he dipped his toe into the water with politics because of health care because of what happened with his young child and you know like that was his he was not a John Stewart john Oliver like Jimmy Kimmel is the man show. Like Jimmy Kimmel's local radio.

Jimmy Kimmel is a prankster. Jimmy Kimmel was like likeability, guys guy, pull pranks, football picks, all that sort of thing. He started dipping his toe in politics through health care. And then I think he got infatuated with it. And the left started reaching out to him. And he started doing events and he, you know, speaking at Obama functions and things like that. But like Jimmy Kimmel in Hollywood. as I understand it, has pretty like universal approval. Yeah. Well, his approval, his approval,

everyone wants to hang with Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah, I mean, because if you think about it, Letterman always sort of poked Hollywood in the ribs, Madonna, Cher, Ricky Jervais doesn't give a flying, you know what about Hollywood. He mocks them in front of them. Co. Right. Colbert is the political guy. Fallon's sort of a New York music vibe. Carson was Devinner. Leno had the monologue.

Conan was quirky. And I always think whether you're a columnist at the New York Times or you're a late-night host, you need a lane. Like you, you know. Kimmel was friends with these people. No, Kimmel's Lane was Hollywood. Correct. He was the mayor of Hollywood. Like he vacations with Jason Bateman and Jennifer Aniston.

you know, like he, that was his thing. He created a vibe and he created a hangout spot. And so, you know, I, I thought that when the 400 actors and artists all, like, signed that petition, I thought that was like an obvious step that was clearly coming. But I thought that if Disney and them, if everyone, like, didn't kind of back down on this one, I think that Kimmel is popular enough that it might have gone further. Because you saw a few people. like writers, I think like a writer from

loss or something, was like, I'm not going to work for them again until they do well, that's where I feel, Iger feels that institutional pressure. I mean, a great example is for a brief time in L.A., I moved to Brentwood, which is, it's a very much an industry

town. Like Manhattan Beach is USC grads playing volleyball. Work hard, party, hard. Beverly Hills is very international. I mean, West Hollywood is very much industry. Brentwood is where the industry, the CEOs, the agents live. And so I moved there in a very beautiful area. But my neighbors, one of my neighbors, like Lindsay Buckingham. It was a lot of industry people. You occasionally see, you know, Dustin Hoffman, I never saw him, but apparently he had

a house. You know, there was a game show host down the street. That's what it, I didn't move there for it. I moved it because when I started the volume, a lot of people in the company were in that area, and I didn't want to keep driving back and forth and driving back and forth. And it's fine. But there was a restaurant there called Toscano. And I went there all the time. They had a great bar that you could just watch sports, really low-key. Every time you walked in, it was industry people.

And Iger, I went there probably 30 times. He was there six to seven of them. Kardashians were there. I mean, it was all these Hollywood people and like industry people. And the truth is, Bob was, could not get in and out of that restaurant. And he would dress very casually, never a suit. I mean, it looked like he just got done biking. He was legendary beloved and left the company, came back.

And I do think there is this point where you look at it and you think, time out, what are my affiliates? Who are my alliances with? They're not, they're not. I mean, and so when you see all the like Silicon Valley guys go into the White House, that's different. Those are massive global companies. You don't know where those people are going to live. they probably got eight halls. Iger always felt like an L.A. guy.

I mean, I thought he made an offer on one of the sports team, his family did. He feels like, I mean, so I just, I guess my point being is that like if I was Bob Iger, and I don't, I wouldn't think you even have a choice. To your point, you don't get credit. It was like, you had to do that. That is your base. Yeah, I thought it was such an obvious overreach. You know, I thought the, the, the F.C.

chairman. I mean, the stuff that he said was just like, I mean, I'm uncally stupid. And so, yeah, I thought it was like a pretty open and shut case. And you also said earlier, you're like, the left was doing it with jokes and going too far. Like, I don't, I don't want to like false equivalent those because like there's no question that sensitivities and people like lashing out at media got a little too extreme. And people got a little too extreme. And people got a little too sensitive and you could talk about cancel culture or whatever. But like, losing out on hosting the Oscars because you wouldn't apologize for jokes is not,

like losing a gig is not the same, like because an event wouldn't book you. That's not the same as the head of the FCC taking you off the air and the president like celebrating your firing, right? That's that's the same. That's government overreach. And so I thought this one was just like, appalling to everybody.

You know, like, this was, this was like what happened to Howard Stern back in the 90s. Like, this was just like so, I was just like, wait, they're going to do what over what comment? And like, who's getting involved?

Like, and I thought Kimmel, what he said in his monologue was hilarious and spot on. Like, he had great ratings. Like, talk about your all time backfire. Yeah.

Like, they made him a martyr. And you've shown, like, you have this power, the volume. And, you know,

a lot of people have left, like, institutional like Conan left late night and is as popular as ever. I know you're not the biggest Conan guy. No, no, I think he's really, I've kind of moved

back into Conan actually. I was going to, I was going to tell you what's interesting about all of this, because I know Jimmy a little, he's a really, really nice guy. I don't know. Everybody likes him. Everybody likes him. Yeah, yeah. And they're all different guys. They all have different personalities. I think

Colbert is kind of a little bit more academic. I think Fallon's kind of silly. Lenno is actually like Seinfeld is like has this, I don't know if Ornate's the right word, this like the car fetish. Like they're really like mechanics who write amazing jokes. Like they really are. Yeah, he's a technician. Yes.

Yeah. He's a joke technician. That's what Leno and Seinfeld to me are, where Letterman had the quickest wit in the world. But it's interesting about the responsibility. I was thinking about this today, is that I think of some people, we're waiting for Joe Rogan to have a big opinion on this. And he was out elk hunting. And, you know, he said, listen, I went up in the mountains. I didn't have a phone. I've done that. I'm sure you have, too. When I go on a vacation, like I turned the phone off for like four days

at a time. Like my kids know how to get a hold of me. I'm out. That's why I go on vacation. And if you go elk hunting, which I never have, I can see you going up to the mountains. There's not a tower next to the elk. I get it. But I always think it's interesting. What is the responsibility? Arsenio Hall said this once. I'm not a journalist. I'm doing a late night show. Watch the news. And I remember thinking, yeah, Arsenio Hall's right. You can bring Clinton on and he can play the saxophone, but you're doing late night. Carson stayed away from it, but it was a different time. Lennel Letterman, Letterman would talk big stuff. It could be 9-11. It could be a heart attack. His best shows were during these gripping, authentic crises in his life or in the nation. But, there's been this sense that Joe Rogan has a certain responsibility because of the size of his audience. And I always think to myself, okay, podcasting isn't even governed by the FCC. I'm having a Green River whiskey podcasting.

I would be let go at any other network drinking on the job. I don't necessarily think popularity means you have a responsibility. I don't think Howard Stern had a responsibility to talk politics. This is where I'll defend Rogan. Rogan is bizarrely curious. He knows more about dragons than I do about my kids. Like he cares about stuff I don't care about. But I think he's so wildly curious that he's kind of a fascinating listen.

And my son doesn't politically always agree with him. But he talks about space and aliens and lizard people. And it's just whatever. Do you think there's a responsibility? I don't have it for politics. I do have it for sports. Do you think there's a responsibility if you have a large audience to comment to take a position on big political issues?

No, but there's a little bit of nuance here. And Nick and I were talking about this. And then Nick made the point on his podcast, which is a part of the volume. So I will echo it. But since he said it publicly, I will give him the credit for it. I did think that Rogan eventually did owe his audience a comment

on this issue. Yeah. Because so much of what Rogan has talked about was free speech. Right. And cancel culture. Like that had that was a part of his brand defending. Um, X, defending cancelizations, you know, being a, I mean, the guy platforms a lot of people and it's like everyone's opinion is welcome.

And I thought some of the things that Rogan has done in the past. I disagreed with. Like, I don't think that Joe, I don't think that Alex Jones deserved Joe Rogan's platform. Same. Right. Same. That was the one guy I'm out on.

Yeah. Correct. Right. And no, that's obviously the most extreme example, but I'm using it to make the point that Joe Rogan's defense of that, as I understand it, was and continues to be,

everyone deserves a voice and everyone's voice should be heard. Well, if that's your thing, And that is undeniably Rogan's thing. Then when an actual First Amendment free speech overreach happens, I do think you owe it to people to be on the front lines of that conversation too. Because if he would have just been like, eh, you know, the joke wasn't funny. And broadcasters have a right to pull licenses.

and it is FCC, it is public airwaves. So, you know, I guess tough shit. I would be like, well, hold on a second. Are you just doing this because you like shaking his hand at UFC events? Like, because a lot of those podcasters in the run up to the election, who were comedian North Star Free Speech Absoluteists, yeah, absolutely were a part of that campaign. And so I think that there, it is good.

for the most part, I have seen all of those guys, Theo Vaughn, Andrew Schultz, like right of center, politicians who had politicians on in the lead up to the election. I think universally they've come out in support of Jimmy Kimmel, who I don't think any of them would say they think is that funny. And I don't think any of them would align with him necessarily politically. But on the free speech issue, they have been consistent. So as someone who loves comedy as much as I do and journalism as much as I do, I do think those guys on this issue owed it to people. But I don't think because Rogan has a big audience, he owes it to us on every issue. Yeah, I'm not a free speech absolutist.

Bill Maher always says he is. I am not. I think you have to. Right. I think the bigger of the platform, you have to earn your way on. I think just saying anything idiotic that's hateful, I'm not going to put you on any of my platform. So I'm not a free speech absolutist, although I do think Marr as a broadcaster is more compelling and interesting by bringing on people who are polarizing and disagree with them.

I think that's just better television than being in an echo chamber. Yeah, I think Marr is the one that he has endured for the last 30 years. And I think one of the reasons is I like the sparring of it. He's brought a couple people on, I would not. But, you know, I'm not a free speech absolutist. I think you earned the bigger of the platform, you earn your way on it. Today's show has brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. The Hard Rock Bet Sportsbook app, it's clean. It's very, very easy to use. And it lets you see the top trends and what everybody else is betting on this weekend. So as we head into week four, the NFL Sunday slate, you're going to want to check out the Hard Rock Bet stats hub. Very latest line movements, the trends that actually matter, some crazy

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and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

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How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching. You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For the record, there's people I wouldn't bring on left and right. I think they're fringe. I'm not a big fan of fringe. But again, I view myself as a moderate to an independent, left socially, right fiscally.

And so I try not to let it get in the way of what I think. But I, again, my take is kind of yours, is that. I talk about stuff that I think fits my brand. I'll give you something I didn't talk about years ago because I thought it was boring. So I, when I first started at FS1, the first four or five years, I watched every minute's ratings the next day. I wanted to see what worked and what didn't. I don't do it anymore, but I did. And I, there was an Urban Meyer NCAA, NCAA Ohio State story.

And I was fascinated by it and I talked about it. And the next day I went and looked at the ratings and nobody can't. because it was bureaucracy. And I was like, oh, it's just too much minutia. And everybody hates the NCAA. So that was one of those where I'm like, and I mean, my rating is just 40% of the audience just left. And I was like, okay, the audience is telling me NCAA's inadequate, toothless, and boring.

And so several years later, there was the LeBron China comments. And all I could think of was, oh, it's bureaucracy. it's boring. I got burned. And I'm like, I don't care about. And my audience doesn't care about Chinese bureaucracy and LeBron James. All they do is complain about LeBron. So I didn't talk about it. And in my, I don't think I've ever said this. And a lot of it was my audience doesn't like bureaucracy. They don't like corporate talk, you know, NCAA government. And I got some feedback. Hey, well, you're afraid to talk about it. And I'm like, no, it's just bad television. Like there's, I literally go to my boss,

Whitalbum, one of the people, you know, the executives, and at the beginning of a football season, I go, give me the 12 most popular NFL teams. And he'll give them to me. And I will try to stay. Even today, I won't say what team is. I turned down a topic that was pushed by somebody on the staff

because the team is just not interesting enough nationally. I'm not doing local or regional radio. So there are times that I haven't embraced big stories, gotten criticism from, I don't really care about the critical stuff, but like, you know, fans are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Where do you land on that stuff that you probably should have, maybe arguably have an opinion on, but it's just bad television. It's bad, boring radio.

Yeah, like, I think that if I was doing the Danny Parkins podcast, like the equivalent of the Colin Coward podcast or the Joe Rogan experience, or what's right with Nick Wright, I would always err on like, I'm going to talk about what is interesting to me. Yes. I, the first thing's first staff has heard a lot of my Michael Pennix takes this week. Because I thought that his performance against the Carolina Panthers was mortifying.

And I would like, I will not bet on him again for a long time. He cost me a survivor pool entry. Carolina's defense was the worst in the NFL last year. They were bad through two games. They were a five and a half point favorite. And they lost 30 to zero and he threw a pick six on a checkdown where I think he was legitimately three seconds late on the throw. He looked horrifyingly bad.

But I can't get that opinion on TV because like the Falcons, Panthers, people just do not care. I've been told. And I'm like, I think I would be really good. You just laughed at my opinion. I'm like, I think it would be like people want to just see what you're passionate about. Like, I think it would have been fine to do for two minutes, but, you know, I don't have as much skin in the game here or as much like, you know, pelts on the wall, whatever the expression is as you or Nick do. So, I got to lose that one. But that means the producers are going to hear about it.

So, like, I think on television, where we are on in sports bars and airports and moms getting their kids ready for school, like mass appeal, you're trying to cater to everybody. But if you were really interested, like, like, a point. I think by definition is more niche. It's like HBO. It's like real time. You have to opting into it. You're seeking it out. Like if I am a listener of the Colin Cowherd podcast and I am a subscriber of it,

I will listen to, I want to know what you are interested in. And if you are interested in LeBron and China, why you are good at what you do is because you make me interested. I love your line of, I'm in the omelet business, not the egg business. It's not my job to make you interesting. But I think that is more applicable to national radio and national television than it is podcasting. Like, if you wanted to get on here and grind out a topic on the hypocrisy of the NBA and its stance and China, like, I'd listen to it. And by the way, if I didn't find it interesting, I'd fast forward.

Like, you know, that's part of the beauty of podcasting. So I think it matters for time, place, but mostly for this conversation. platform. Like, I agree with you that not every topic, Nick and I talk about it sometimes, like, that's a good radio topic. That's a good podcast topic. That's not a good TV topic. And I, you know, and I'm a little over a year into my TV career. And so I am still learning and like figuring that piece out as a long time radio guy. There are topics that are just better for different mediums. Yeah, no, that's, and that's pretty smart that you guys talk about that. because it, you know, and I've said this before,

college, March madness and the baseball playoffs, I really like. But the regular season of both doesn't move the needle. You lose, you hemorrhage audience if you talk college basketball before March. But I start watching it in February, and I'm really into college basketball for three weeks. I've got really good friends in the industry, a couple of coaches. And I love watching like eight to ten programs, Yukon, and gone. Zaga and Villanova and Kansas. I love watching them play. You know, I love Syracuse and Beheim. Sure. And by the way, baseball's like that. So, you know, I grew up with the Mariners. Well,

now they've got Cal Raleigh. They hit home runs. They got Munoz the closer. They have a really good starting staff in an ERA. They're great at home. It's all be fascinated for five weeks of baseball. But during the regular season, it's not a great topic. So that's a prime example of to the And sometimes I take people behind and just say, listen, when I lived in ESPN land, I watched a ton of Yankees redso. I worked out every day to Nesson, Mike Felger, the radio show, the TV simulcastle. Every single day I worked out. That's why I'm so buffed. Every day I worked out to that.

And I listened all the time to Mike and the Mad Dog in the afternoon when I was driving around doing errands and picking my kids up. I'd listen to 45 minutes. And they would just go, you know, it was baseball show more than anything, which was crazy in a city like New York with it. and the Jets and the Giants. So there are topics like that. But I will say in October, I think these, I think here, I'll throw this at you. I led with this today on television. I saw you led O'Tonnie today, right?

No, no, I led baseball. I said, if it's, whether it's AI in business, N.I.L. in college football, or fear of the salary gap in baseball, there is a neurotic, anxiety-ridden, fadeless group of sports fans who, literally always fear the worst. And I'm like, you do get the Lakers got Luca bounced in the first round, OK C, MET in the end in the finals. You do get that the brewers are the best team in baseball, and the Mets are unraveling with their $340 million payroll. And the Reds and the Guardians and the Mariners are crushing it. And Toronto, where none of the star players want to play in Toronto and

the taxes in Canada. And you start looking around at all these sports. And it's like, Green Bay is great. The Jets and Giants are unwatchable. That there is something that's very true about business and sports, obsessive wins. And when you're in big cities, it's more distracting. There's more to do in Chicago and New York. There is not more to do in Green Bay. And there's not more to do in OKC. And I do believe it's not just because you should have advantages, game day revenue and big cities, more free agents want to live in Miami, L.A. and New York than they do, you know, Dallas. Yeah.

That I think in cities like Dallas and New York and Miami and Los Angeles, it's more distracting, not just for the athletes, for the executives and for everybody. And I guess my whole point is what I love about baseball, I think it's been an unbelievable year for baseball, that all these small markets that all these, that all these. sort of can't compete with the bigs. I mean, the Dodgers have a, they're unraveling. Their bullpen's terrible. I mean, I think it's been an unbelievable baseball. If you asked a commissioner, he'd go, I want the Cubs, the Dodgers, and the Yankees to be good, but not too good. I need two small market teams, one in the Northwest and one in the middle of the country.

I like every team except the Braves that you would want to win is winning. Have you paid more attention to baseball this year because you're a Chicago native? Yeah, listen, I love the Cubs. And so when I did local radio, you know, we were doing baseball all of the time. I do agree that some of the story, Cal Raleigh, like, to me, he should be the MVP. Judge is amazing, but that those power numbers as a catcher, they're playing every game is stupid. That's like a few baseball players about it. And like, to a T, they don't talk about him like he is Otani, but they talk about it, like in the same level of like,

I think it was physically possible for a catcher to do that. Piazza, Johnny Bench, Pudge, and Cal Raleigh. It's like it wears you out to be catcher. Correct. So to be catching that number of games and hit that money home runs for a good team is just awesome and preposterous and an amazing story. And it probably should be getting more attention, though it is obviously getting plenty of attention on MLB network. I since leaving, like I did not love the local radio day to day of baseball because it was always hard for me to put any significance on any one game. Yeah. Because like my math brain just didn't allow for it.

It was just like a, the guy that my co-host was a huge baseball guy. my producers were huge baseball guys. And I was like, guys, I am a huge baseball guy, too. I just like more like storylines, playoffs, macro. Well, it's also an event culture. And that's how the audience is they're distracted. Like baseball is a hard sell in the regular season. Right.

But like in May in Chicago, when the Cubs are off to an amazing start, like they're the biggest deal in town and there's nothing going on with the bears or the bulls. And it's like it's kind of like local. that's what you're doing. And so roundabout way to talk about. So I love baseball, but I love it more now that I am not in it every day because I can just kind of like appreciate a good game, a good highlight, a good storyline. And then as to your point, lock in for the playoffs.

And it's more than they become football games. Like the reaction or right, like it, each game, obviously matters way more. Each decision is like truly fascinating to hyper-analyzed and magnify. Because in the regular season, it's like, ooh, that was a questionable lineup decision. Or he should be batting there. That was a weird bullpen decision. It's like, whoa, we're operating with such incomplete information.

Was the guy healthy? Are we playing the long game? Are you just trying to get this guy a spot? What was the reason for? But it's one of 162. the actual result of the baseball game doesn't matter that much. Like I need, we consume so much sports that I need there to be stakes attached to my sports. And it just doesn't feel to me like any one regular season baseball game matters all of that much.

So I'm with you that the stories have been great. But I personally prefer it from the national level because I can zoom out a little bit. Yeah. The, now that you live in New York. So, and I spend 80% of my time in. Chicago. I still go to L.A. regularly. I still have a lot of friends, and I still love going. And I'm not one of these. I hate L.A. I love, listen, I've lived a lot of places I like. I love the East Coast. I really love. I never thought I would. But I mean, June 1st to October 1st,

maybe October 15th, if I could, I'd live in the Northeast. I think it's the most beautiful place in the world. The beaches, the fall foliage, foliage, it's amazing. I will say Chicago is radically cheaper than Los Angeles on like 13 different fronts. It's unbelievable how much more affordable Chicago is. Like having a beer, I mean, having a chicken sandwich at a food truck, like going out to eat, like rent. I miss it. It's, I miss it. Now, now you've gone from Chicago to New York. It is unbelievable. You've gone from a city with bad owners and mediocre sports to a place that's worse. It's impressive.

I mean, it's incredible. How would you, what's the difference for our audience between a Chicago sports fan who you talk to every day and a New York sports fan that you can hear every day on radio or TV? Yeah, I mean, listen, New York sports fans take a tremendous amount of pride in their, they're booing and their anger. Like, I would always say, because I, too, listen to Mike and the Mad Dog, when I would was in Syracuse, they would be on the Yes network, and I was a sports radio

dork, and I was, I consumed it from then, and I went to school with all of these kids from the Philadelphia area and the New York area and whatever. And as much as I love Chicago, I do think that there is kind of like, in terms of like tough fan bases,

there's a big three. And it's New York, Philly, Boston. Yeah. And then there is a gap. And then Chicago is like the biggest of everybody else and the toughest of everybody else. The Chicago Bears, the Chicago Bears beat is a good, tough beat.

They ask tough questions. They will hold players. There's big city journalism that happens around the Bears. It's an excellent beat. The Cubs beat is pretty good. There are national reporters based out of Chicago. It's a good beat. White Sox catch a ton of hell.

But it's not like Boston. It's not like Philly. and it's not like New York. Some of it is, some of it is, Chicago angry isn't Philly angry. Midwestern people.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, they're just not as angry. That's the, and by the way, Philly takes pride in it. Chicago's kind of, they feel bad when they hang up the phone

and rip somebody. That's, that's what I'm saying. I think the media reflects the fans. Like the fans in Chicago, like we want to be tough and mean, but we're still like Midwest nice. Yeah.

Like, we still kind of, judge the we want you to when we when you hold the door open for someone like not to be surprised like new yorkers are like what are you doing like do you work here um and so i think that there is some that that's it's a cliche but i do think that there is like a noticeable difference and it's not just new york chicago it's like new york philly boston everyone else and so that to me is the biggest difference but you are 100% correct that god is their bad ownership in both cities.

Oh. It's wild. And that's why, though, like, listen, the one I use is like, the Bengals were the bungles before Joe Burrow got there. Like, it can change.

The Chiefs did not win a single game with a quarterback that they drafted, not a playoff game, a regular season game between Todd Blackledge and Patrick Mahomes. They won games with Alex Smith and Joe Montana and Trent Green, but like a Brody Croyal who they drafted, and he went own 10. Like, so like, a player can change it.

Now, you got to be unbelievable. And it is harder to change the culture and the institutional failures and you're paddling upstream and all of those things. But like, if, if Caleb is that guy, he can change it. If Derek Rose would have been four inches taller and had better knee ligaments, like he could have changed it, you know? So I do think. that like the ownership matters a ton but you great management can over the the cubs were

terrible forever the tribune company never spending anything and the rickets family they spend they make a ton of money but they don't spend like steve cullen or you know some of the you know like they what the cubs make they put back into the team but when they had theo epstein running the show they won the world series You know, it's the greatest baseball executive of the last 30 years. And now they're pretty well run and they've been consistently good for a while and we'll see if they can get another one. But so I think that ownership can hold you back, but you just have to be truly special to overcome it. Well, I've been using my J-Lab headphones for a couple of years now.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letter help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is. getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of race in America,

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So, and I'm going to let you think about this. Okay. while I give you mine. So have you ever had an especially strident position? And for a variety of reasons, perhaps, in my opinion, it's a cultural change. You go the opposite way. And I'm going to start with mine. And I thought about this.

So for years, I always said Green Bay not having an owner was a negative. That you need Stan Cronkey on the tarmac with Sean McVeigh on the phone. And he's getting ready to fly his Gulfstream from LAX to Heathrow and literally McVeigh and Lesneed pin him down on Stafford. And he goes, okay, let's get him. You don't have to go through a board. You don't have to gather people around, like in Green Bay. And, you know, Mark Murphy had to answer to people. And so for years, I always thought, what a negative for Green Bay.

They don't, they can't walk upstairs. I've always said, one of the strengths. of Fox over ESPN. ESPN's a massive company. It's like the Marriott chain. Fox is like a boutique hotel. If I really needed something, I would walk upstairs

and I've done it maybe once and just ask Eric Shanks. Eric, this sucks. Can we do this? Or Eric, I'm not comfortable with this. What do you think of this? And if he's there, he would just say, oh, that's a good point.

Let me get it on the phone. And I don't do it much. I've probably done it twice. Where I've said, hey, can we do this? This is one of them was like, well, I won't even get into it. It was kind of a thing for the staff I wanted to do. But you can get an answer and get it solved very quickly.

And I don't have a lot of, you know, I don't have to do it much. I think I've done it twice in nine years. It was just something. I'm like, God, this feels weird. Let's not do this. You get an answer. Packers never had that. Then something happened.

And I really noticed that over the last two to three years is, and I've talked to GMs about this, is that owners have gotten more impulsive because they're not worth 700 million. They're worth $11 billion. And so they have no problem running a $68 million check to get rid of both coordinators and the head coach. They don't care. And when they're around their buddies who are millionaires, probably not billionaires, they're giving them shit when they vacation with them. Like, your coach is an idiot. This quarterback's a bum.

And, you know, it's a bit of a billionaire echo chamber. And they lean on the GM and they lean on people. And they just are crazier. And so Green Bay now, I believe, has a huge advantage. They don't answer to any impulsive owner. They basically have really smart president, really smart people in the front office. They tend to be patient with quarterbacks. I do not believe you can draft a first round quarterback and sit him for three years twice.

You can't do that in any other city except Green Bay, the masters of the most important position in the national football. increasingly so over the last 15 years. So that's my sports take where I was like there, and I have pivoted to the other side, and I think Green Bay's ability to have multiple year patience is unprecedented in this sport. So the Green Bay thing is a little sensitive for me because my dad's whole side of the family are Cheesehead Packer fans,

and I've had to deal with this for my entire life. and I always would say, you know, to my brother, my older brother was a Packer fan and my dad, and, you know, rest in peace to both of them. But I would always say, I was like, you guys don't know how the rest of us live. Like, you guys going from Fav to Rogers to Jordan Love, like, I remember when Rogers got hurt and Brett Hunley had to play for like six games. They were like, oh, it was like six games. Try 16 years. Try the 80s.

Yeah, yeah. The game that Caleb Williams had against Dallas, a bear's quarterback has not done that. Four touchdown, zero picks, zero stacks since Rex Grossman in 2006. And before that, it was Eric Kramer

in 1995. And then before Eric Kramer, it was zero times. Like, that's the entirety of the list. And so, like, the fact that, like, so, and so Packers'ans don't understand how good they have it. But allow me to just push back a little bit. Isn't it luck?

Is it isn't, I mean, because our sample size there is two, right? Aaron Rogers and Jordan Love. And because Fav was like Farrv was good. They had Farrve. They traded for Farrv. And then Aaron Rogers falls in the draft, not supposed to be there. They take him. They sit him. But he was you know, number one, it was him and Alex Smith. Then that works. And then Rogers, they think he's done. They train up and take Jordan Love. Then they get rid of McCarthy.

LaFleur comes in. All of a sudden, Rogers is winning two more MVP's. Like the plan wasn't like, let's sit Jordan Love for three years. The plan was, we don't know how much longer Aaron Rogers has. And then a new coach kind of injected some old man life into him. And Jordan Love was sitting long. than they initially thought when they drafted him. If they thought that Aaron Rogers was going to be an MVP,

they would have drafted T. Higgins instead of drafting Jordan Love. So, like, and by the way, it was multiple presidents. You know, back then with, it was Ron Wolf, right? It's been multiple General Thompson. Ted Thompson. Yeah, multiple presidents, multiple general managers. I don't, I don't just believe that like inherently because they eat Bratworths, and they have no owner, and it's green and gold,

that they have just, like, that they just have this ability that, like, if Mark Murphy went, and it's a new president now, I forget the guy's name, but if he became the president of the Jaguars, I don't think that the next Jaguars quarterback would be Aaron Rogers level good. Like, I think they have gotten, I think they've gotten lucky twice, and it annoys the hell out of me. So here's where I'd push back. They are also arguably the best drafting team period for 25 years.

And I think, I mean, they literally have maybe in 25 years had two bad offensive lines. And they never draft offensive linemen in the first round. Is that once again, their ability to draft middle rounds and just be patient and not have a relentless, angry media banging on them. Their media is not even collegiate. It's almost high school nice. It's a very supportive media. And so I would buy into luck if they didn't currently have the best tight-end, wide receiver youth groups in the NFL. And they don't do free agency.

So they're missing a leg from the bar stool. And it's almost like there's so many teachers that are actually millionaires, almost higher than almost any profession outside of tech. And one of the reasons they have to be is because teachers don't make a lot. So they tend to pay off their homes. They buy used cars. Green Bay similarly knows we don't get free agents. We have to draft and develop.

We have to be patient. We're not attractive to star Mike linebackers and wide receivers on average. So I think I would buy that, but they draft so exceedingly well. And I think a lot of it is you do in life what you have to. If you have to save to retire early, you don't buy a second car. If you're rich, I mean, the New York operations, they just fly through money because they're game day revenue is huge. And they, and I mean, I think, I mean, like the Knicks, James Dolan, I'm firing the most successful coach we've had in 20 years. You wouldn't think of doing that in

Green Bay. Like, it wouldn't even be on the table, would it? I mean, they fired Mike McCarthy after he won a Super Bowl. Now, not right after he won it, obviously. And he struggled the last year and a half, two years. He struggled. Yeah, but Mike Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since 2016 and they've they've kept him there because like the steelers ownership group believes in continuity of coaches um so listen the packers are a very well-run organization so there's obviously an ounce of hater uh that is coming out of me when we're talking about this and right and ryan coon is very good it just an ounce uh just a smidge feels like 16 ounces it might be 40 proof it might be it might be 40 proof can you pass me some of that whiskey by the way it looks delicious

Ed Policy by the name is the new, the new Mark Murphy, the new Ted Thompson. I just, I have a, I think that they are very well run. They are very good at drafting. They historically, you are 100% correct, have not been a free agent team, but it's also not because part of it is because they don't,

they're not attractive to free agents. But in the NFL, guys normally go where the money is. No, right. Like Reggie White going to Green Bay was like a massive deal on a number of levels because of race and religion and location and all that. They also paid him a boatload of money. Like I remember when Mario Williams went to Buffalo.

Oh, yeah. Remember that? Oh, my God. Buffalo got a big free agent. And I was like, he got a hundred million dollars. Right. Right. Right.

But Green Bay has also talked about like a lot of like they believe. philosophically, organizationally, in building through the draft. They don't even, like, really pursue big-time free agents. Like, part of it, I'm sure, is a geographic disadvantage. But I think part of it is also just like organizational philosophy. And they're very good. And I think Jordan Love is just good enough to throw a backbreaking interception in the playoffs that year, Colin.

That's what I think. And let's wrap it up with your pivot, a position you had. And now through either cultural changes, information, clarity, you have moved off it. Any sport, anything. Okay. Yeah, good follow-up. You're going to hold me to it. So I, this, maybe this doesn't answer your question perfectly, but I think it's a decent answer.

I used to want to fire coaches for bad game management decisions, messing up timeouts, messing up. You and Nick right. Messing up, go for it on fourth downs. It would drive me insane. And I still don't like it to be very, very clear. And I do think teams in general have gotten better at it because they've brought MIT nerds and analytic departments in. And they've like streamlined their process. But like I'm talking like, by the way, like, I can go back. Like Mike McCarthy on the Packers when they were in the NFC championship game against Seattle. in like 2010 or whatever. He's got Aaron Rogers.

Aaron Rogers is MVP of the league, and he's giving the ball to Eddie Lacey inside the five-yard line instead of letting Aaron Rogers try to throw, and then he's settling for short field goals. It was, this was like before the analytic, but like, even at the time, I'm, Aaron Rogers, six is more than three. Go for touchdowns. What are you doing?

I used to want to, like, fire guys for that. But then, and like, like, Andy Reid, it was a big reason why I changed this. Like Andy Reid has struggled at times. And remember I covered Andy Reid in the Alex Smith era when he was coming off of the Philadelphia era. I did not cover Andy Reid when he had Superman as his quarterback. But Andy Reid would sometimes do things,

be slow at the end of half, swept the clock run, punt from midfield. And I was like, this is so dumb. But, God damn. that guy would win. And he would win double-digit games. And he would get Alex Smith had the best year of his career with him. And then you go back through and you look at it and he was like,

okay, not only did Alex Smith have the best year of his career with Andy Reed, but so did Kevin Cobb, Jeff Garcia, Mike Vic, Donovan McNap. Yep. So the epiphany was like, it's the part that drives guys like me and Nick crazy because we are sitting on our couch watching an HD. with the clock and the time and the score, and we can do that part. But the biggest part of coaching is very clearly not that. The biggest part of coaching is Monday through Saturday, the game plan,

that how you game plan for the Broncos is different than how you game plan for the lions. And it's like a week-to-week chess. And that's what Andy Reid is the best I've ever seen in my lifetime of watching football. And so, like, that it is a part of coaching that still drives me crazy, and I will still yell at my TV about it. But I will, unless you have, like, no, like, I will never advocate firing a good coach for something like that. You know, like, if Brian Callahan can't do it, and he can't coach, well, then sure, just like add it to the list of reasons why he should be gone. But it's not like the, it's not as big of a part of being a good coach as I originally think. thought it was because I think I gained like a more global understanding of like what the job entails.

I don't know that I fully adequately answered your question. But like it is a position that I totally have changed on and it's now more of like a nuisance than like a foundational principle. But I also think as I go around here, I also think teams have gotten way better at it. Like Dan Campbell is at the forefront of it. But like teams now all employ games. theory people. Yeah. No. And I've talked to a lot of, I probably say my best sources in sports are NFL GMs. XGMs, current GMs, guys that want to be GMs. And they've always said that a coach

is a CEO. If you get the schemes along with it, it's a total bonus. But they've got to be a part psychologist, Bill Parcells was brilliant at that. They've got to be an understanding of personnel. Jimmy Johnson was a master of that. They have to be play designers, Sean Payton, Andy Reed, Shanahan, masters of that. And that clock management is often, you have a sense that that's what you do during the week. You do all these two-minute drills and red zone drills, and then you let the game develop. And Phil Jackson used to never call the first time out. I covered that Blazer Lakers series with the iconic Shaq Dunk. The Blazers took 10-point leads multiple times.

Phil wanted his team to figure out dilemmas. His theory was, I'm not going to what, I'm not calling the first time. I want you to figure it out. Because when that happens again later in a game, we have a dynamic. We have been through this. And so Phil was like, it's like being a parent. I'm not going to solve all your issues. You need to solve some of your issues.

So a lot of this stuff, especially early in the season, I want to see if Cam Ward can handle the clock. We're not going to the Super Bowl. What I have to find out is, can I get him from week three to week 12 to be a better quarterback? I'm not solving all your issues. So I was told that years ago by a guy like, he goes, when people beat, he goes, you don't know the injuries. A lot of times you can't use certain substitution patterns. You're like, why don't you go get this?

Yeah, you can't actually use it. but you didn't advertise it to the other team that that tight end is hurt. And he's like, there's matchups that are a problem. Sometimes a GM told me this once, he goes, you'll go into certain weeks by November. And you literally have a guard that has got 12 to 18 snaps in him. And you're just, Kurt Schilling once told me when he got old, he goes, I had 12 fastballs. You can't use them in the first two innings. You've got to save them.

You'll go in and have a right guard. and you're like, he's got about 15 snaps, but we need 40. And so you run to the other side. You don't do, you know, pass protect against that matchup. So it literally, you know, there's other things now. The backups get hurt and you're like, well, we don't have another slot corner. So we're going to have to play softer coverage here because that's a physical receiver. So through the years I've learned, there's a lot of stuff.

You just don't advertise, but you go into games by November. you've got all sorts of holes. You just can't let them know them in the first two drives. Yeah, the dirty little secret is, like, our jobs are to be interesting and to have big, strong opinions, which are interesting and hopefully entertaining. But the ones of those of us who are self-aware also will admit, whether privately or publicly in a quiet moment,

how much we don't know. Like, we're operating with limited information. These coaches are lying to us. we don't know who is healthy. We don't know what the game plans are. We don't know a lot of the circumstances around it. And, you know, Kurt Warner's been doing this thing on Twitter where he's like, how do you guys all have such strong opinions on Monday before you've watched the tape?

I'm like, because that's when the show starts. Like, what do you mean? Like, that's when the show starts. We watch the game. We just do as best we can. We talk to the people that we can talk to. We do the stat work. That reminds me of the, uh,

There's a moment. Theo Vaughn has a podcast. He calls This Past Weekend. Yeah. And he had a guest on. And the very, it's an actor that's very popular. And the guest, the actor goes, what did you come up with the name of that? And he goes? Well, my first show was on Monday. So I named it this past weekend. And the guest is like, he's like, that's actually brilliant. And he's like, well, that's why I named it that. It was a Monday pod in this past weekend. And it's the same, it's the same sort of thing. is the one thing about our business, there used to be, I think his name was Frank Rich. He was a brilliant writer for the New York Times. Brilliant. I think he was my favorite columnist in the history of the country. I think he went on to write Vice. He went from the New York Times. I think he covered Broadway. He became like the Sunday columnist. I think he was writing one column a week, Frank Rich. One. I would read it every week. A lot of great columnness. He was next level. And I remember his final column, he said,

what I really regret. And remember, this is one column a week. I do three hours a day. He said, sometimes I was forced to have really strong opinions. And I just didn't. And I'm like, on one column a week? But the truth is, yeah, but the truth is he's right. Like, not every week you have this this volcanic emotional eruption over an issue. Now, Trump, I do think historically makes it a little easier if you're not a Trump fan, right? And just our political country, the tribalism, it's easier now than it was like when he was writing the column 10, 15 years ago. But it is, that's one of the things in our business is urgency. I try to make sure, I try to make stories urgent. I'm not, I'm not saying something I don't believe, but you do have to create a sense of energy

and urgency. You can't go monotone and go, here's another story. Like, so, you know. Yeah, right. By the way, Frank Rich Veep. which is an incredible comedy, by the way. I did not know that. Not Vice Veep. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen Veep, but that's amazing. Oh, course.

Yeah. One of the great insult comedy shows ever. So inappropriate. Some of the things they said, I'm like, how do you? HBO, baby. HBO is how you get away with it, man. Are you kidding? Yeah.

So, yeah, he's VEP and Succession and in New York Times columnist. That's awesome. What a great. He's the best, yeah, best columnist I've ever read. And I mean, it was like the Sopranos. It was must read on Sunday or must watch. Not that much does it for me. Now it's streaming. I, you know, my wife's trying to get me into this Jason Bateman show with, uh, with Jude law. I haven't started it yet. Jude law. And I said, God, it's like six episodes. That's such a commitment. Yeah. I watched the Charlie Sheen dock that was two and that was enough. And I mean, I barely got through it because he was such a hazmat spill. it was exhausting. Yeah, I watched episode one, and I haven't hit play on episode two. It's just a long slow trainer. Have you done the studio? Did you watch the studio? The Apple TV show? Okay, so, so, you know, Hollywood loves Hollywood. And the last two Emmys, a show about Hollywood is one. So I watched an episode. I didn't get the inside jokes. I am not anti-Hollywood. I watch the Oscars.

I like movies. I go to the theater still. I'm kind of, I have, you know, I've got to deal with the Hulu ABC now I'm doing. I have another deal. We just got our first script done. I like it. I'm fascinated by it. I don't get it. I feel like an outsider.

But it is, what was your question? I forget. No, if you had seen the studio. Oh, I watched studio. I watched the first episode and I didn't get a lot of it. It was a lot of esoteric stuff. And I just didn't get it. And I thought, okay, they're talking a mile over my head.

I didn't understand. Now, I watched. years ago, there was a movie called The Player, which was similar in its, it's stylistically, how it was kind of an inside joke. That, for some reason, I got. I didn't get the studio. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I love Seth Rogan, and so I thought the show was shot beautifully, and so I thought it was hilarious and really well done, and it got better as it went. So I was just going to recommend it to you if you hadn't seen it. There's some seriously hilarious cameos in it, and it's absurdist comedy, but it's also shot beautifully, cool,

cinematography. So I dug the show. So I watched the first episode. I didn't go to a second. So you're saying it gets better. Absolutely. And I think, listen, I don't, listen, I don't know if 23 Emmys is, you know, that seems, that seemed a little much. And you're right, these things that Hollywood loves Hollywood. But yeah, I was, I was a big fan of the studio. But I also like, I mean, I like most things that Seth Rogan does. I like, I like anybody who can convince studios to give him, like $80 million to make a end of the world comedy where him and his friends just play themselves. Like his scripts, the pitches are like,

you know, like sausage party. Like we want to do an R-rated animated movie about grocery store items. And it's like, what? Like we like Pineapple Express. We want to do an action movie stoner comedy that involves shootouts and explosions. We'd like $100 million. He's like, what? And he gets them all done.

So I love his brain, man. Seth Rogen's the best. Danny Parkins. You are too, my friend. It's good. We've got to do this more often because every time I do it, we just go in a million directions.

I didn't do any prep for this. That makes zero. Yeah, you call me every five or six weeks, and I'm a little insulted. I want to come on more. So anytime, let's do it. I don't bring Nick Wright on as much because a bit of,

Which we hired him. Yeah, I hired him. That's a good call. Like, I got what I want. I don't need you anymore. I'm not. Yeah. Yeah.

I realize what happened there. Yeah, you now have what's right with the little V next to it. And so you don't need to bring up anymore. I'm happy to fill the void. Happy to. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. The volume.

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