The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Ant Makes It Look Too Easy, Is Tatum A #1 Or The Best #2? Should The Lakers Hire J.J. Reddick?

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down all the action from the NBA playoffs! They start with the Nuggets evening the series 2-2 with the Timberwolves, why the schedule benefitted Denver (3:00), and why the series might come down to the battle between Karl-Anthony Towns vs Aaron Gordon (6:00). They try to project the trajectory for Anthony Edwards and compare his spectacular play and less than spectacular playoff results to early Michael Jordan. (11:00) They debate whether Kevin Durant could be the missing piece for the Wolves or Kicks (15:30), whether the Celtics are just “very good” or truly elite (24:00), and whether Jayson Tatum is truly a #1 or the best #2 in the league (30:00). They discuss whether the Lakers should take the risk of hiring J.J. Reddick as a first time head coach (37:00), and why they’d need a full buy-in from LeBron for it to work (42:45). They also both lean into the idea that LeBron would be best served stepping back into the #2 role (49:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And I think it's a big deal. We all know who everybody plays already, but it's the order. For instance, playing in Denver high altitude in September when you're coming out of camp has always been tough. Playing Andy Reed in September, tough. Some of the defensive coaches experiment more offensively early. Belichick never had a great September. And also back to back to back, tough games, road games. You know, Miami would prefer never go into Buffalo with Tua as a quarterback in December and January.

they'd love to get that game out in, you know, September, October when the weather's great. So there are absolute, you know, dome teams. They don't want to play December, January games up north. When the league had a gap between games two and three, Denver, Minnesota, and it hurts Minnesota's momentum, and it gives Denver time to prepare, you get that extra film session or three. It's a totally different team. I mean, Denver was so bad defensively, so lethargic. Now it's almost like Denver saying, let Ant get his.

He's going to get 40. We're not going to stop him. And let's shut down the other dudes. But, I mean, it does feel like to me that that time, an extra day or two here for a really smart veteran team and a good staff, feel so substantial. No, absolutely. Minnesota came out with pretty bad energy in game three. Ant himself admitted it after the game. He's like, I came out with low energy.

Meanwhile, for three consecutive days, Denver had to sit around and listen to everyone talk shit about them. Literally, it was like they just got humiliated for three consecutive days. And, you know, I said after game two, it wasn't really about basketball to me. I thought that Minnesota brought a level of physicality that Denver had not seen. Yeah. Really at all in the previous five rounds that they had played in the postseason. And I thought they got a little caught off guard by it.

And specifically in game two, they crumbled mentally in a way that they never. ever had before, right? And honestly, do you remember in game three at the beginning that play when Anthony Edwards was messing with his shoulder for like 30 seconds? That was the first play of the game. And on that play, Nicole Yokic just rocked him with the screen, just like a super, super hard screen. And when I went back and looked over the film in that game, like really all that happened was Denver did all the same things that they have done all season. They just did them harder, faster with more force. They finally met the physical confrontation. And when they did, you found out pretty quickly, they can still score on these guys. It's like, it's not like Jamal hasn't seen a lengthy perimeter

defender before. Of course he has. It's not like Yokic hasn't seen two centers on the floor before. Of course he has. They've all seen that before. They just didn't handle it well. And then the big one here, and this is something that I called out before the series, and I really was surprised that it took this long. But Minnesota is a mediocre offense. No, Anthony, I mean, Anthony, that's what I think Denver looked at and said, just give Ann is 40. They have a lot of very good athletes and length. But if Carl Anthony Towns, like tonight, is just kind of just wandering, there's not really a second scoring option on this team. There really isn't.

So you need towns, who's always been, to me, talented, but a little flaky, a little inconsistent. You know what I mean? like, he disappeared. Anthony Davis gives you the same defense every game. Carl Anthony Towns, who is more gifted offensively, should be as good offensively as Anthony Davis is defensively. He's not. You get, you just get, he's lost. And I thought in this game, what are we doing here? And when he doesn't deliver, it doesn't matter what Ants. Amt could score 50. I mean, Jordan was scoring 63 and they couldn't beat the Celtics. So I do think Denver just said, listen, we're not going to stop this kid and make everybody else work. And I think your point is right, is that if Towns is off, it's an athletic team.

They're long. They almost have an extra wing defender and one less shooter than they need. No, absolutely. And like, it really comes down to this. They were a mediocre offense all season long. And then they've got a bunch of these streaky guys, guys like Kat, guys like Nikiel Alexander Walker, guys like Nas Reid, who like are capable of playing at a higher level offensively. but Phoenix couldn't really play them out of that.

Denver's lackadaisical defensive effort in the first two games couldn't play them out of that. But as soon as Denver tightened the screws, Pat fell apart, McHale-Oxander Walker fell apart, Nasreed fell apart. Like, immediately Rudy Gobert looks like a damaging offensive player

because he's got stone hands and he can't like make quick decisions when he catches on the role. And so like literally Minnesota looked like regular Cs in Minnesota. If anything, it's really impressive that Ant is demonstrating his least. leap is for real. And specifically on the Carl Anthony Towns front, you know, this Carl, Carl Towns reminds me of a specific type of player I've seen several times in NBA history. The most recent example kind of reminds me of Kevin Love. And obviously, Kat has a better pedigree. But like,

it's like the big scoring, like kind of hybrid big, but one that's not actually that superior of an athlete compared to his peers. Right. And that can shoot. And so what happens is during the 82 game regular season, they get their 25 points a night because they can bully smaller players and they can hit threes. But every single time Kevin Love would run into a really big athletic forward, someone like a Thaddeus Young or a Draymond Green, and just render Kevin Love into a spot-up shooter. And then everyone be like, oh, LeBron made Kevin Love a spot-up shooter. It's like, actually, that's all he can do when you reach these super high levels of intensity. Aaron Gordon demolished Carl Towns tonight.

Just completely just snatched his soul. He's a much better athlete. He's a much better athlete. Exactly. It's like the, it's like the guy who's a little bit shorter

but stronger, more athletic, kind of like Draymond or Daddy's young like I was talking about with Kevin Love. They can beat Carl Towns to spots. And so make it so that he can't drive. And then if he can't drive,

he's suddenly just a shooter. And it's like with the shots aren't going in, then his impact craters. And so yeah, like there's another conversation to be had. I mean,

you even when Minnesota, was playing well, we're pointing out like, is Carl Anthony Towns still going to be here in the future? And it's like, there's a, there's a real conversation to be had about the team build of Minnesota in the sense that Carl Anthony Towns is what he is. He's never going to become a super reliable secondary shot creator. You can't let it go out there by himself every night is the only guy who can get to his spots and create shots. So I don't know what they do about that in the long run, but tonight was the last two games. This is not game one and two of a series where you're feeling each other out. Everyone knows exactly what

Everyone's good and bad at right now, and nobody on Minnesota can score except for Ant, and that's a major problem. Well, and also, I mean, Yokic and Ant are transcendent. So to some degree, you know going into a game, you're giving up 30 plus. You know, Bird, you know, Jordan, Kobe. Some guys are just like, you've been in the gym. Like, that guy's going to get his. The series really comes down to, like, it's amazing. Gordon versus Carl Anthony Towns.

You're like, oh, that's kind of what the series has come down to because you can't new, you can only do so much to neutralize a superstar in this sport. And then all of a sudden, and again, this is what champions do. We forget this. I remember a couple years ago the Celtics played the Warriors in the finals. And through the first couple of games of the series, through three games, Boston was so much better than Golden State. And you're like, Steve Kerr gets an extra day. There's preparation to go to Boston.

and you're like, who unplugged the electricity with the Celtics? Like, what happened? And I think the mistake I make thinking Denver's cooked is you give these championship teams time, they're well coached. I mean, Malone's been there. I mean, he was like seven years in. And they were just, they just let it bake. I mean, there was no pressure.

They couldn't win with Yokic for years. So this is a team that's, you know, they've been through a lot of these battles. They've lost a lot of them in the early years. but they've had to make major adjustments. And, you know, I rush to judgment. I look at Denver now and I'm like, oh, this is what I thought the series would look like, which is, again, they would match their length and physicality. And Yokic would just, you know, Murray and Yokic are both elite scores.

So I will say this. I don't know why the media does this. They get so protective from people that don't need it. But Ant is spectacular. Like, I always felt this about, and I'm not saying he's Jordan, but he has some Jordan qualities. And that's okay. Mahomes, you know, they're talking about Caleb Williams has Mahomes qualities. Yes, he does.

All the scouts are saying, he plays like Patrick Mahomes. There are things about Ant, but the most Jordan thing about him is, I remember watching Jordan against Phoenix in his prime. And I was sitting on the couch with a friend watching it. And I'm like, okay, he's not the best shooter, the best ball handler. He's not the quickest guy in the league. and he's 6-6. Why does it look like he's like the only Division 1 player playing at the Y? It's like it makes it look so easy.

Ant gets past people on the first step. These are NBA athletes. He just gets past everybody. So when you watch it on TV, I don't think you would appreciate it. The ability to always, everybody knows where he's going. He loves the first step. He sizes you up. He makes the game look easy.

Mahomes does this. Jordan did this. You're like, why? How? I'm watching that. And even against good defenders, I mean, Jamal Murray switched off to him one time. I'm like, this is not even competitive.

Murray's a world-class athlete. I mean, you've been in gyms with guys, but I look at this and I'm like, when guys start making 38 points look easy, there's about three in the league at any one time that can do that. Maybe one. Yeah, there's athletic. and then there's athletic among the athletes.

It's like an entirely different stratosphere, right? And like that's kind of to me the difference between like a Jason Tatum and an Anthony Edwards. Like Jason Tatum is a very good NBA athlete. Like like he's in, he's close to that like truly transcendent. But there's clearly a difference between ant sizing up an elite defender and beating him off the dribble and Tatum doing the same thing. It's like that next level of elite top tier athleticism. Honestly, I, regardless of what happens. the rest of this series. And I do think Denver is going to pull this out now. I think they've

effectively just rendered Minnesota's offense useless and they're going to go home. And I think they're going to win game five. And the biggest thing, too, is like Minnesota hasn't been particularly competitive in either of these games, which is, which is a major concern. Right. But like, no matter what, it's very clear that Anthony Edwards is here to stay. I, I think he's the next guy in that, like, line of truly transcendent great American basketball players. Like, it went from MJ to Kobe and it went from Kobe to LeBron. And there have been guys along the way that have had their little moments. But nobody that really had the potential to take over the league for a long time.

And can't you just see it, Colin? Can't you just kind of imagine what the next 10 years are like for A's? You could just kind of imagine him continuing to ascend and getting better and better. I started to think tonight like if it could have pulled this game out. It could have been one of those transcendent moments you think about like, you know, LeBron and in like 2007 or 2008 kind of thing. And honestly, like, Denver's just too good. Like that's really all it is.

Like, LeBron ran into the 08 spurs and got swept. So, like, at a certain point, it doesn't matter how good you are at that phase of your career. It is a team sport. And, like, literally, while all of his veteran teammates were falling apart, he was continuing to ascend. It was really impressive. Yeah, I mean, and this is appropriate. Jordan couldn't get through a fully formed Pistons or Celtic dynasty. So, I mean, Denver's fully formed.

They have the experience. They're better offensively. They have Minnesota's length. So again, this is the way it works. It's the baby steps. He comes in, he pushes and makes a Denver, you know, step back. They got hit in the gin. Uh-oh, we got, you know, they dazed the champion and they lost.

That's what happened to Jordan. That's what happens to LeBron. So to me, this is totally appropriate. We are amazed by the individual player, but they still have tweaking to do. I mean, we all know what Minnesota is going to do in the offseason. They're probably going to move Carl Anthony Towns, and they're going to get more offensive players. I mean, eventually, Jordan needed Pippin and Kerr. You know, I mean, like, they don't have to be a nightly great player,

but you do have to find players that take something off ants plate a little bit. There has to be some... Do you think Minnesota should go after KD? It's not terrible because, again, the great gift of KD, you can give him the ball eight seconds on the shot clock, four, he'll get a great look. He doesn't need, you know, it's a little Clay Thompson, but obviously much better. He doesn't need the ball in his hands. That's why the Jalen Brunson, KD works, the emotional part of KD to the Knicks, Tibbs, that style, you know, is he willing for it?

Let's pivot to that. Because, listen, the Knicks are beat up. Nothing you can do. Just set the guys down, get ready for Tuesday, be embarrassed. You know, you'll be on fire Tuesday. So OG is hurt. O.G got banged up this year as well. Brunson's not 100%.

We already know Mitchell Robinson and Julius Randler out. So this is a limited team offensively without injury. So we all kind of kept waiting for this team that was playing with game seven intensity to just just collapse. Just the wheels came off and they sort of did. I still think they have a chance to win this series. But I was saying this earlier this week and I said it last time I was on with you. There's a lot of different scenarios with the Knicks. And it's very easy to talk yourself into we're just a piece away.

But the East is going to get better. It's just going to get better. Butler's going to be healthy. Dame's going to be healthy. Yonels will probably be back and Beatle get help. there's so many scenarios for the Knicks. And I do wonder if instead of looking at Kevin Durant and Paul George, they just, they find another OG on the market. You know, they go get another really good player.

Because I do think, you know, playing hard, maybe it has limitations if you fade. I don't think they can be to Denver or Minnesota's length. But the Knicks have done something the last three years. that they haven't done for 20, which is they're patient. They're like, you look at them and you're like, this is a well-run team. They don't take, I mean, they used to take,

you know, big reaches on Amari Stodomier when he had bad knees. It's like, what are you doing? Like every GM in the league's like Amari's, you know, he's got like two years left. He's cooked. Or trading for Carmelo when they could assign him as a free agent

one year later, not got the roster. I don't know exactly what they do. I think Paul George fits everywhere. But again, it's such a unique culture. Like, it's just not for everybody. I mean, I can't wait to watch. They're not a championship team.

I think, you know, listen, they're not. We know it. They're just, you can't. There's too many great players, too many good teams in this league. Nicks are not a championship team. I don't know what the solution is. I want to watch it. It's not in the draft.

We know that. It's not a good draft. I mean, KD is, it's, it's, I just don't know. KD is, boy, you look at him post-Golden State. it's he's different he's running through coaches you know and tips has power in that room nobody's pushing back on tips yeah i i think i for sure they need somebody that can play that's bigger i mean the biggest problem they're running into now is their best five guys are four guards and isaiah hartnstein because of the ogen-obey injury so like they're literally running out there with runcson heart de vincenzo and

deuce mcbride with isaiah hartin and trying to make plays happen and like they're there have been moments where they've been playing Alec Burks at the four. Like they're, they're really, really undersized right now. And so I do get encouraged by the idea. Just if you could somehow get KD with that OG and an OB, which I think would be really difficult, I like the idea of having OG at the three with KD and a Hartenstein because you're just really big on the front line. And then you could still have a Devenchenzo or a heart at the two.

So you maintain some of that physicality. It's just if you had to give up OG, that's such a significant chunk of that identity. I mean, just look at this Pacer series. Since OG and Nobie has gone down, the Knicks just physically look different. They just look different, right? Now, like Indiana has to feel really good going into game five like they're going to win this series

because they really controlled things outside of a few clutch stretches in games one and two. And that's the other thing too. New York actually has a negative point differential to this point in the postseason, which is actually kind of crazy, but it's because they've been in every close game and just pulled it out late.

And so you have to get some bounces that, go your way. Like even when you look back, it's like how'd they beat the Sixers in game, in game six. It was a, it was a Josh Hart three from the top of the key at like that broke a tie in the final minute. You know what I mean? Like it's it's big shots at the end of games. Like it really, the teams that can win the championship, they don't need to do that every single night. So I do think they need some more firepower, but it's just going to be really difficult to tow that line between adding firepower while sacrificing the physical identity, which is such an important part of how they win right now.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big time, to me not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, you know, I said this last week, and I, and I lose track sometimes because I'm doing three hours a day and I'm doing this with you and I'm doing other stuff. But I want to talk Celtics for a second. I said, the NBA, I grew up in the 70s, it's pretty well chronicled. I could tell you the starting lineups for the Washington team that won, the Portland team, the Sonic team, the Sixter team. Like, that was really in my wheelhouse. I was collecting basketball cards. I was like a, you know, like, you are now. I literally just could not. I literally just could

not get a night. It was the only thing I cared about, you know, when I was a young kid. And so, and then you get dynasties. You get the Laker dynasty and the Celtic dynasty and the Piston dynasty and the Bulls and the Shack and Kobe and the Spurs. And so all these dynasties come up. And I do think it's the first time we don't have another dynasty. I think we have really good teams. Now, again, Denver wins it. Then you've moved into the Hedels conversation where you're darn close now. It's not a dynasty, but you can, it does have a spurs feel to it. Like with Yokic, He doesn't need the attention. He's the kind of guy that would take a pay cut.

Like, let's just keep doing this running it back. I don't need the drama. They have a very spurs feel to him. The star is like a good guy, kind of Brady-esque. Like, just let's just keep our roster. But I was looking at Boston and I'm like, in this era of good, maybe Boston's just two things. Very good.

Because they're 500 at home over the last three years. Historically makes no sense. That is just not the way it works. great teams. So think about this. They're 500 at home in the playoffs. I've only been to one finals. That's against the East.

The East has been abysmal for about four years. So they're 500 at home in the playoffs against a weak, much weaker conference. It's hard to argue they're elite or special. What they are is very good. I think they don't have a Shaq, a Kobe, and MJ in their prime, not even an aunt. Is it possible they have two Scotty Pippins? and you're like, they're good enough to win a title, but they need some breaks. Because I keep watching them and just, if they're not hitting threes, they get bad fast.

Like, you're like, wow, this is, they're just, and they're almost unsurious. Like they're just, the energy's terrible. Is it possible we've overvalued them because it's a big brand? We like Tatum. It's a, you know, you have two players. They do point differential regular season. They're outstanding. you can't be 500 at home over three years against the East and tell me your elite.

It would be different, Jason, if they had a title. And then you kind of pull the governor down. Like we've seen this of the Shack Kobe teams. It's like they're great. Or Katie and the Warriors. Then you pull it down. Like, let's just get through the regular season. What is Boston?

Elite or in my contention, very good in an era of good. They're very good. I mean, coming into the season, you and I were on the same page. this. Like they're kind of on the same level as Denver. And then when we did our playoff preview, we were like, they're kind of on the same level as Denver. Yet they had, like, I can't remember exactly what the Nuggets finished with, but they were a mid-50s team. And the Celtics were a mid-60s team in terms of wins, right? So like they've won 60-something games this year, but they're not like a traditional 60 win powerhouse because the Eastern Conference is so weak. And again, it's really

this simple. You play 52 games every single season against your own conference. Right. You play 30 against the other conference. So like, and all you have to do is go look at the, go look at the, ESPN standings and go look at the, uh, the record for Boston against the Western conference. They were just another team against the Western conference. I think if Boston was in the West, they'd be near the top, but they would not have separated themselves. That's right. The way that they did against the way that they did against the rest of the East. Now, one of the things with Boston, like, Boston has nowhere near the defensive personnel that Minnesota does. So like, and that's, that's, that's the scary thing.

with what Denver's doing right now is you could not build a better team to guard the Denver Nuggets than what they have in Denver has sliced and diced them two games in a row now. So like Denver's going to score on Boston. But what Boston has that Minnesota doesn't

is they have a ton of offensive skill. All five of their guys in the starting lineup can shoot. Everyone can dribble. And so they do have the ability to kind of space Denver out and have some success there. I think Boston presents some challenges for Denver, but I would pick Denver to beat them. And so to put it simply, they're just another team in the top tier, whereas

if you looked at the standings, you would view them as having separated. And really, it does come down to Tatum for me. Like Tatum, in my opinion, it's somewhere around the seventh to 10th best player in the league. And it's just really difficult to win the championship in NBA history if you don't have one of the top guys who won it last year, Yokic, best player in the world. Who wanted before that, Steph, top three player in the world. Who wanted before that, Janis, top three player in the world. who wanted before that, LeBron, Hawaii, KD and Steph, LeBron. Like, you have to go all the way back to 2014 with a crazy, fluky Spurs team that had magical ball movement and magical everything to find a team that could win a title without a bona fide,

Alpha Dog, top five superstar all-time great. And like, as much as I like Jason Tatum, and he's a super nice guy, yet another really insightful quote about media and how much he appreciates that media has given to the game. And like super great guy, great leader of a team, but he's just not as good as the top guys. It's literally that simple. Well, yeah. And I think this is the first year I've watched Anthony Davis this year and thought he's a one. I always thought he was the best two in Lee history.

I thought it was Pippin forever. And then Anthony, we've had a few of these. Like, ants, a one. You can just see it. The trash talk, the intensity, everything. You don't have to argue about that. Tatum is viewed as an absolute one. What if, like Anthony Davis, he's the best two in the league?

Because I really thought this year, I'm like, God, Anthony is, this is a healthy, dominant defender, mostly good offensively, plays through pain, literally changes, changes everything. It can allow LeBron to be a bad defender and cheat. He allows the team to cheat. And I look at Tatum, and I'm like, it's not a knock. I know he makes all NBA. But it's very hard to find an all-time. Basketball is a trash-talking sport. It's an energy-juice sport. Most guys that are like top five in the league, you know, now, Kauai doesn't talk to anybody. But I mean, most of them have a little bit of a chip, a little bit of, they're almost like play angry. And Tatum doesn't have that. He's got almost like a guy personality. You know, like he lets the game come to him. He, he, you know, can always break guys down when I've watched the,

him live three times. He always gets his shot. But it's like he plays like a two, but we've annoyeded him to a one. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but I don't know when I watch him play, when you say something for five straight years, it's probably true. For five straight years, we've said, Jalen Brown sometimes acts like he wants the ball more than Jason. We're on the fifth year of that. Like, that's because it feels true, right? Am I wrong? Is he a love? Is he a love? end one or is he a great too? Not that it matters, but I watch him and I think his body language, his mentality, how he plays, his aggressiveness. He feels like a great too. You start when you're one of those guys, when you're one of the true bona fide top tier superstars in the league and you're in

your mid to late 20s, you put together awesome playoff performance after awesome playoff performance. Like it's, there is a level of expectation that comes from that. And I think Tatum's 26 now, and he's played what, eight playoff games against, against pretty inferior competition. And he shot below 45% seven of the eight games. Crazy. Like, his best game is a 50% night. So, like, like, you'd think that there'd be a 14 for 20 game in there somewhere. Right. Like, it's, it's one of those things where like, and it really does come down to the first step for me. He's, he's a guy that doesn't have a great first step and is an inconsistent jump shooter. Like those two things are going to render you like he does a lot. He's a very good

defensive player. He's a much better playmaker than most of the forward, his forward peers that he has in the league. He's a very good player. I want to be clear. Like top seven, top 10 in the league is nothing to like, you know, to dumb your nose at. But at the same time, like, there's levels to this. And when you get to those top guys in the league, it's like, it's like, how is it that 39 year old LeBron James was having a monumentally more a productive offensive playoff run than you against inferior competition every single night. It's like, it really is bizarre. But like at the same,

and here's the other thing too. What really concerns me is Boston has no hierarchy. And so because Tatum is not this guy that can really command games offensively every single night, it's like now Jalen Brown wants the reins. Now Derek White wants the reins. Like Drew Holiday started game three against Cleveland being super aggressive out the gates and looking for a shot.

And so like really there's, it's actually kind of what leads to. some of Boston's bad rhythm games where they look really bad is like everyone's kind of yanking at the reins and no one can get going. And it's like, that's just not what it's like on these other teams. It's like, if you watch the Cavs, who's running the offense for the majority

of the game? Donovan Mitchell. If you watch the Knicks, who's running the offense, the majority of the game, Jaylen Brunson, Tyree's Halliburton. It's Nicolioch and Jamal Murray. It's Anthony Edwards. It's Luke Adonches. It's Shay Gilges Alexander. In Boston, it's like, it's all just vibes. It's like, whoever wants to take control can take control.

And like, and that's the thing. It's like, no, like this, if this team's going to get to the promise land, Jason, like, you've got to really take control of this thing because it's all great against Cleveland and it's all great against, uh, against Miami without Jimmy Butler, but you've got a little bit of a tougher team in the next round. And then you're going to walk into a most likely a Denver team in the NBA finals. That's going to want to snatch your heart the way that they're doing to Carl Towns and all these other guys from Minnesota. And so it's going to get harder and they need more out of him. And he just hasn't been able to get there consistently. Well, and I think if you look at what Brad Stevens did, the construction of the team, poor Zingas was off a very good offensive year. Drew Holliday was a better offensive player than Marcus Smart. To me, Brad Stevens is telling you, they didn't move off Al Hartford, who can have these weird offensive nights. Like, I'm watching Brad Stevens, who was a really smart guy, and I'm like, he wanted more offense. Like, he clearly, you know, if you go look at Kobe, it was getting people that didn't threaten to take shots.

against Kobe or MJ or, right, you don't want to take the ball to even Jalen Brunson's hands. Like, don't take the ball to his hands too much with Luca, although his ball usage rate is too high. But it kind of looks like Brad Stevens said, I'd like to get better scoring in the front court. I like a better offensive player than Marcus Smart. Like he was just adding offensive chips. That's okay. But it's a lot of times if you have the guy, it's not about that.

It's about adding who can take off some of his defensive pressure, some size at the rim. You know, if you go look at what they added the LeBron, they didn't get Kevin Love to take the ball out of his hands. Basically, it was Badié, Allen. It was just other people that could augment the game, but not take it over. I look at them and I'm like, they're, you know, when he was healthy, Porzegis would have 28 point nights and you're like, oh, this feels like his team tonight. Like, this is his team. So, again, that's viewed as a criticism. But I, you know, if you watch how a team is run, they'll tell you what they are.

I always say this. When you watch a football game and you watch what the team does in the first two series, they're telling you this is what we think we can do because you want to get ahead. If you lead in an NFL game, you take the lead, you win like 65% of the time. So teams are telling you, this is what the film says. We can do this. They can't stop this. There are times when I watch the Celtics and I'm watching the construction of them.

And again, I'm just, I'm spitballing, but there are times I watch them. And they're like, they're telling me, they have reservations. reservations, whether Jason can take a series over. I mean, Yokic, it's established and already. It's absolutely established. Donovan Mitchell can be hot and cold, but Jesus. I'm going to say something. I said this the other night.

Jalen Brunson gets more consistent. He's not as athletic as Tatum. Jalen Brunson gets great looks. He gets great shots. I don't know how he does it either. Great shot. So anyway, yeah, it'll be viewed as a criticism, but I think it's a reality. Okay, I want to do this topic.

So I saw this on the Internet, and I apologize for not giving credit. But somebody said, everybody starts somewhere. Is J.J. Reddick supposed to go to the G League? You know, a lot of these guys just don't want to coach college, the NIL. They just don't want to deal with limitations in CAA. Is J.J. Redick? Is he a bad idea for the Lakers? I mean, you think Boudin-Hoser would have taken the Lakers job and Liberation

Ron would have bought in. They couldn't get him out of town fast enough and he had a title in Milwaukee. Janice wasn't a fan. Is JJ Reddick a terrible choice? Or are we overstepping that that everybody starts somewhere? Where's he going to start? He's rich. He's not going to the G League. He's not taking that job. Jason Kidd. First experiment not good. Now he's established himself. I mean, what is your take of J.J. Redick, who people are getting gobbled up, could be head of the class now for the Lakers. Yeah, so the experience thing doesn't matter as much to me for a couple of reasons. One, it's the, it's the classic like corporate ideology where like you're constantly towing the line between rewarding experience versus rewarding talent.

And like, there's always a fine line between like, oh, well, this guy's been doing it for eight years, but it's like, yeah, but is he mediocre? Because that's the other question here. This guy, if JJ happens to have the talent for it, if he happens to have the basketball IQ or whatever for it, then by all means make the move. and so much of that depends on how he's acting behind the scenes in the interviews if they go through an interview process. But the second piece of it is you can counteract a lot of the lack of experience or lack of experience with just putting experienced head coaches on his staff. So you can address that by just giving him a really good assistant coaching staff.

As far as I'm concerned with JJ Redick, like when it comes to the Lakers, what I'm really looking for is somebody that holds players accountable. because I look at them as a defensive-minded team anchored by two big athletic forwards in LeBron James and Anthony Davis. Just look at around the league. When the Lakers won, they won when they defended. That was always their bread and butter. They made it to the Western Conference finals last year

as a defensive-minded team. They lost in the first round this year as an offensive-minded team. Going back to 2020, they won when they were a defensive-minded team. So I'm really interested in somebody that's going to hold them accountable. And I don't really know if JJ's willing to do that with LeBron. That's going to be something that is going to have to be flushed out in the interview process. But I'm not concerned about the experience simply because if J.J.'s got the talent, he's got the talent. And they're going to anchor him with experienced NBA coaches that

will help him navigate the 82 game regular season. And honestly, like, it's really just going to be about like a collaborative effort between LeBron James and the and JJ Reddick to kind of identify what the strengths and weaknesses of the roster are and go from there. It's really hard. Honestly, Colin, I wonder what it's like for you cover in the NFL too. like it's really difficult with coaches, especially new coaches. We're not there for the interviews. Like with a player, I can go look at tape and I can get a really good feel for what he's good and bad at.

But like with JJ, it's like, well, what's his philosophy going to be? What are, what are his core principles that he's going to build the team on? Like, what is, is he going to continue the five out offense? They were running out of Darwin Ham. With Darwin Ham, are they going to run something different? Are they going to do something different defensively? It's so hard to say because we're not in the room for those interviews. But if JJ interviews well and they give him good assistant coaches and he's got the talent for it,

I absolutely think it could work. Well, I mean, Duke kid, you know, you listen to the podcast. He's, you know, he's a thoughtful guy. To me, you know, it's experience is funny. You know, it's creating the volume or working for years at ESPN or Fox Sports. you know, people, managers have come to me and said, hey, listen to a tape or what do you make of this guy? And my take is, if you've never done network, who cares? Like, we listen to your tape and we're like, yeah, he's ready to go.

Okay. I don't, you didn't have to be somewhere. We thought you would be here. So it's, you know, it's a jury Seinfeld was speaking at Duke. He had a commencement speech and he had a great line. He said, having stuff is nice, becoming stuff. or having stuff is nice, becoming something is really more important. And becoming something is misses, it swings, it's an ascension.

In every job that I've ever had, I was a little over my skis for the first like six to eight weeks. Like, I'm bailing water here. I'm trying to catch. I had a friend once that got a job at Google. And she was like, I literally, six weeks in, I'm like, oh, I'm dumb. and this is a full of smart people. I'm too dumb to work at Google. And she goes, then the light goes on.

You start clicking and then like six months into it. You're like, okay, she, but it's like, it's okay. Darvin Ham learned on the job. If you're smart in any industry, you'll figure it out. Like, a lot of this stuff with coaching is, like I heard Frank Vogel, you know, some complex defensive stuff. Beale didn't really buy in. Booker was close to an assistant coach, much close to the

he was Vogel. Kevin was fine, but Kevin's Kevin at this point. And it was like, Vogel just didn't, he didn't resonate with all the guys in the room. JJ Reddick, if LeBron buys him, will resonate with everybody in the room. So my take is you start somewhere. If you get LeBron, there is some credibility, like with Jason Kidd. Like, there is credibility player to player that JJ has. And I think it's kind of unspoken, but kind of the middle-aged, you know, guy that didn't play. I always. think you go into a locker room and about half the room is like

if the star doesn't buy into it half the room's not buying into it. Maybe that's cynical, but I think everybody would buy into JJ Redick. Well, it's like Micah, it's like Micah Norrie from the Timber Wolves or I can't remember his name, that assistant from the Celtics who just got assigned by the Charlotte Hornets. It's like, if you bring in an assistant,

it doesn't matter how much he's been grinding in the fill room, doesn't matter how much he impressed the previous organization. He's got to be able to look at LeBron and be like, hey man, I need you to do this. And LeBron's got to be like, okay. You know, and not only that, but I'll hold the rest of the team accountable to help him along the way. And so there, I do agree that's the gravitas piece. And by the way, that's why they hired Darwin Ham.

They thought Darwin Ham would be able to bring some of that. Yes. Like, real gravitas to the situation. The thing with JJ is you got to acknowledge the risk because you're right. Like they let Darwin Ham learn on the fly. And he didn't really start making huge mistakes until this season with the roster when he was like leaning into Camerite. We've gone over it. But like he made too many mistakes.

And then the Lakers had a situation where they looked at the early. urgency of their situation and said, we have to make a move. And so I just, I just hope that the Lakers front office and ownership understands that if you do take JJ, there is a risk. And even though I believe he could do this well, especially with good experienced staff behind him, anytime you go for a first time head coach, there's a, like, what if he's just really bad at at in game adjustments? What if he's just really bad? Like, we don't know what it's going to be like. We're going to find out over time. And so that's where like the, let's say the alternative, let's say they were to get like a Kenny Atkinson, for instance.

Like, Kenny Atkinson is more of a known commodity. He might be a higher floor, but like maybe you don't get some of the upside you get, if you get a freaked out. To your point, Steve Kerr. Like, Steve Kerr is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league. I think he's the second best coach in the league behind Eric Spolstra. Like, that was a risk signing Steve Curry. By the way, Steve Kerr was radical.

He came into a Mark Jackson led team that was spamming, pick and roll. And he said, hey, Steph Curry, we're taking the ball out of your hands. We're going to lead the league in passes. we're going to run this motion ball and player movement offense. And I'm sure there were moments in training camp where it looked ugly. And I'm sure there were moments where the front office was looking down like, oh, this is weird. You know, like we just went, you know, two great playoff runs in 2013, 2014,

just having Steph runs spread, pick, and roll. So like, this is funky. But then it works. And now Steve Kerr is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league. So like there's upside to going with the JJ, but there's also a risk. And so for me, I'm okay with that risk because I, I don't really think there's any candidate out there that's a home run anyway.

Right. So I think there's risk all around to begin with. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversation. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survive.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important. years from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because the league is so player-driven, you have to be more patient.

Like, you know, in football, it's really owner, coach, GM-driven. So there's no excuse for a coach to say, you know, I can't get the room. I can't get the room. Just cut guys. If you can't get the room, you're never going to be a good coach in the NFL. Well, in the NBA, international soccer, where you have these Rinaldos and LeBrons that are literally, I mean, they're almost above the sport. They're these iconic figures. It is harder to get that attention.

It is harder to get the buy-in. You hopefully get a Tim Duncan or, you know, I mean, I think sometimes we forget that Phil Jackson had replaced Doug Collins. Michael liked Doug. Doug's really intense. and there was some combative nature to his personality, but Doug Collins and Michael mostly worked. That was the first time. Michael got real buy-in from Doug.

And he got real buy-in from Phil. Phil's considered, you know, the Zen master, the better coach. But part of its buy-in, but I think LeBron has to also acknowledge, you know, when Michael was in a prime for both Collins and Phil, like LeBron's not there anymore. And I do think when he was completely unselfish for the 15 years in his prime, he could have scored 12 to 15 points more every game he played in. Now he can be a little, he looks for soft spots in the defense that he can manipulate smaller players that he can drive to the basket on.

You've talked about this is that I think LeBron gets a little selfish now where it's more about legacy and production is that I think it's time to step back. I'm not denying he's a top six player in any night. But it does feel like a little bit with LeBron, he's gotten a little selfish where it's like it's okay to acknowledge is you can't literally, even if you're great, you're not guaranteeing anything in this league. This is the West. It's packed. You could be a playing team.

And I know you know LeBron better than anybody, his game. But I do feel like with LeBron, he's a little more of a taker than a giver now in turn, not just assists, but he's seeking production sometimes to maintain. And I think it's time to step back. I think he should be a two on a team. Am I not? I think you're absolutely right.

I mean, this was actually kind of a little bit of a subplot over the last two seasons, more so last year than this year, because LeBron was so good this season. But like, for the record, I don't really, I don't think it's legacy.

I think it's confidence. Like I think LeBron still thinks he's the guy, you know. And so I think a lot of times like LeBron confronts a basketball problem. Like, okay, we're in this slowdown basketball game. I need to get something going for my team offensively. That means give me the ball. And then I'm going to, you know, play basketball surgeon, you know, bring this guy up. I'm going to get a switch.

I'm going to attack this smaller player. Oh, I want to pick on Yokic and pick and roll. So we're going to bring Anthony Davis up to the screen. But one of the things that I noticed over the course of the last couple of years is LeBron almost confronted every basketball problem with him having the ball in his hands. And there is something to be said about, like, even though LeBron on the ball is still a very effective form of offense, it's not the same as it used to be. And, you know, specifically with Anthony Davis, I actually do think that LeBron would benefit from leaning more on Anthony Davis offensively over the course of the season. One, to build up Anthony Davis's confidence so that when they get into some of these situations where they,

need to lean on a, like perfect example of this was, was game two against Denver when they blew the 20 point lead. It was LeBron and AD were picking on Nicole Yokic and ball screens. And then Michael Lone made a very smart adjustment. He moved Aaron Gordon onto Anthony Davis so that they could switch the LeBron AD pick and roll. And then LeBron instead of going, hey, Aaron Gordon's on AD. Let me just keep feeding AD against Aaron Gordon.

instead he thought, I can beat Yokic in ball screens because I'm LeBron. So now I'm going to bring Rui up to the screen because Yokich is guarding Rui and I'll start to pick on Yokic in the Laker offense fell apart. And so like, I think LeBron

made the bad read because he was thinking, I'm LeBron James. But it's not, I'm LeBron James. I'm 39-year-old LeBron James. So maybe I should go to this other guy who made 14 straight shots earlier in the game.

Like maybe I should go to him instead. And so I think you're right. Like I think in general, and this is something I think that the Lakers, from an organizational standpoint, hiring a coach and as they approach this off season, they need to actually give a clear ball handling option that's not LeBron so that LeBron doesn't have to feel like he needs to approach every problem by him playing LeBron ball out above the break. And the big guy that I'm looking at, and I want them to go after DeJante Murray. I don't know if you saw it today, but in the draft lottery. The Hawks got the number one overall pick. I saw that, yeah. Which is, which is super interesting because, like, I would imagine they're going to look at that as let's rebuild around

Tray Young and Jalen Johnson. And so I think they, I think they'll probably look to move DeJante Murray this summer. And he's one of those guys where like, DeJante was really good in the playing games and really good down the stretch of the season. He can really beat people off the dribble. He's an excellent point of attack defender. That's the kind of guy where like, you can actually put yourself in a situation where you have a, like, because as good as Austin Reeves is, you kind only want to lean on him. It's better that he can go in spurts. You don't want to lean on him for big doses.

I saw, if you look at DeJante Murray's numbers, when Tray Young didn't play, like, it's a little Jalen Brunson without Luca. Oh, yeah. You're like, oh, no, he could be a one in a bad team or a top. I mean, like, when Tray Young didn't play, they were like 30% elevation and assists, 25%. Like, I don't remember the exact numbers, but I did a rant on this. And I was like, I mean, you watch him.

He's obviously explosive. You can see that. But it's like, we did this with Brunson. You know, you're like, well, he's kind of a two to tray. And it's like, no, maybe they're two ones. The numbers when Trey doesn't play, DeJante's numbers move up and his efficiency gets better. So that's an interesting one to me. Yeah, to put it simply, the Luca Trey, like, heliocentric, do everything player, it is difficult to be the number two for that guy.

We can at least admit that. If anything, it's like a testament to Kyrie because like Kyrie's the kind of guy like in game three or game two who can score eight points and still dominate the game as an excellent defensive player and passer and all that kind of stuff. But like it is difficult to be in that role. And Dejante Murray in particular, like he's a guy that like he can really dance with the ball, beat people off the dribble and make stuff happen. And so like if he's in what, you know what no one ever said about Dejante Murray is he's Clay Thompson. Like he's not going to stand out on the wing and just shoot catch and shoot threes all game. And so like it actually, it actually makes a lot of sense. I actually look at that as if I was the Lakers this summer, I'd look two routes.

Through the trade, I'd look for Dejante Murray. Through free agency, because they'll have their mid-level exception that they can use every year, I would target a real center, like an actual big center that can play next to LeBron James and Anthony Davis and give them a big look. I think if they do that and Jared Vanderbilt gets healthy, they all of a sudden become a much more physically imposing team with a lot more ball handling, as a Dejante Murray. Like, I actually think that there's a, if they nail this summer and the head coach hire

works out, I think there's a small opportunity for them to do some damage next year. But, but yeah, like I, the JJ Redick piece, I really do think that there's, it's just as good as any other option out there. It's not like there's some slam dunk home run option. And so I kind of, I kind of think as long as he nails the interviews and they put the right staff around and it could work. Jason Timph. Hoops tonight.

as always. Great stuff, bud. It's good to see you, man. Looking forward to next week. The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate, and review. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.