The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Baker's Fatal Flaw, Marcus Thompson on Warriors Resurgence, KD/Steph Breakup, NBA’s Greatest Dynasties

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Colin explains why the Giants’ offensive mess reminds of a restaurant in El Paso (3:00), and why Baker Mayfield is falling into Jay Cutler territory (8:00). The Athletic Bay Area columnist Marcus Thompson, and Colin discuss how the Warriors made Marcus feeling like “the idiot” (11:00), what he’s seen from Klay Thompson in his recovery (13:00), how Andrew Wiggins finally found a fit (21:00), if the Lakers are still a threat to win the West (26:00), the fallout from the Steph/KD breakup (28:00), the first great dynasty in NBA history (32:00), the underrated dynasty that permanently changed the game (33:00), and the greatest basketball franchise nobody talks about (38:00).Make sure to Subscribe and follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but say. celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the look back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. Eighty four was big to me. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1,800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries,

gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1,800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stemstem. enchanted rose medley for $39.99 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Colin Coward Podcast presented by Fandual Sportsbook. No better place to bet the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. There's a lot of reasons. It's America's number one sports book, incredibly easy to use, super safe, totally secure, super fast payouts,

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Fandul-Sports book app, sign up. Hi, everybody, and welcome in to our Wednesday podcast. We're going to talk a little hoops today with Marcus Thompson, who wrote a great book on Kevin Durant and Steph Curry, Bay Area columnist for the athletic Warriors' best team in the league. He's always a fascinating listen plus a lot of insights. Two football topics. Let's start with this. The Giants have fired Jason Garrett and the Giants have given Freddie Kitchens the job as coordinator for Daniel Jones.

And it reminds me of something about the quarterback position. Years ago, I went to a Sun Bowl. I worked for a local affiliate in Portland, Oregon, KGW. And I had to cover an Oregon football game. I think they were playing Minnesota, Glenn Mason, and the Golden Gophers, I believe. And I went down to El Paso, which is on the border next to Juarez. And Juarez is a pretty hard, scrabble town, a lot of crime. And, you know, not always the safest place in the world after dark.

And so I went to a restaurant one night in Al Paso. So it was on the border. And I remember going to this restaurant and somebody who lived there said, I'm going to take you. It's not the best part of town. It's pretty rough, but it's got good food. And I remember going for a drive and it was like an industrial district. And then we got to the restaurant and it was, I looked like a former tire center. The servers were old.

It was a family. It wasn't the fastest service. And it kind of smelled. especially in the bathrooms. But I sat down with about four guys, and it was the best Mexican meal I'd ever had in my life. I think we stayed there for two hours. And what it made me think is, if you get the food right, nothing else matters in restaurants. You can be a dive bar.

You can have dark lighting, slow, not the greatest part of town. If the food's great, you'll go. I have buddies that live in Detroit and Chicago and they go to these dive burger places. And they've taken me to them. And you're like, this is it? And they're like, it's been here 32 years. Why? They're like, you'll know after you have dinner.

You'll figure out why. It's the same with quarterback. If you get the quarterback right, nothing else matters. If you look in the NFL standings today, outside of the NFC South, where Brady is in first place, and there really is no second great quarterback in division. Every other division, the two best quarterbacks are in first or second place. Josh Allen, Mack Jones,

Ryan Tannahill, Carson, Wents, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert. Go over to the NFC. Dak and Jalen Hertz. Jalen Hertz right now is the second best quarterback in that division. Kyler Murray and Matt Stafford. Aaron Rogers and Kirk Cucsons.

Say what you want. Kirk's the second best quarterback in that division. It doesn't matter. Get the quarterback right. Nothing else matters. And the Giants didn't get Daniel Jones right. He reminds me of the quarterback Jake Locker out of Washington. Despite having a quarterback as his head coach, Steve Sarkesian,

he couldn't complete 55% of his throws in college. He went 8 to Tennessee and I called it. He's a bust. Got to be able to make the throws. Daniel Jones, despite having David Cutcliffe, a quarterback whisper at Duke. He completed under 60% of his throves in a bad conference. You can blame everybody with the Giants.

But if Daniel Jones was Justin Herbert, everybody, including Jason Garrett, would keep their job. Second thing I want to talk about, and this is a real thing, every profession requires a certain attitude or aptitude to be really successful. For doctors. You can go to Harvard, be a brain search, surgeon. But if your bedside manner is terrible, if you don't emotionally connect with patients and their families, you're going to lose business. Patients are nervous. They want somebody to comfort them,

make them feel safe and taken care of, make their families feel safe. That's why for a doctor, bedside manner, empathy, and patience is incredibly important. The doctors sued are not the worst doctors. Read Freakonomics. It's the doctors with the Horus Bedside Manor. Navy SEALs. You think it's about bravado and courage, but it's not. They go on dangerous missions with a team of other men. The bottom line is, loaners do not work with the SEALs. You need guys who run teams in high school or college. Can you trust them? Do they have your back? It's not about bravado and courage. That's just an element to it. The number one priority is, team players, trustable teammates and dangerous crises.

That's where I think Baker Mayfield fails. Quarterback is very political. You have to be conciliatory. You have to be a lubricator. Jay Cutler had great talent, but he was an agitator. He was a loner. He didn't make people feel special. He was the opposite of political.

Jim McMahon, Baker Mayfield. That's Baker's issue. Brady's greatest asset. He falls on the sword at a press conference. He makes the young players feel included. And the veterans at the end of their career feel important. That's being quarterback. You have to make Antonio Brown feel like he matters because the rest of the league

acts like he doesn't. You have to make sure that Mike Evans feels like a number one, but keep Chris Godwin as a number two feeling like he could be a number one on certain Sundays. You have to elevate the offensive line. You've got to keep your tight ends happy. Brady's gift. Ask any 20-year-old or 21-year-old who's ever gone to the Patriots. You ever notice Tom Brady comes up and introduces himself and says, Hi, I'm Tom Brady. Why? Everybody knows his name. He wants to make the young players feel they're on even footing. It's a team. I'm not above you. Baker's got talent. So did Jim McMahon. So did Jay Cutler. I don't. I don't think Baker has the right personality for the position, and it will ultimately be his undoing. Marcus Thompson for the Athletic, a Bay Area columnist. He's written the books Golden,

The Miraculous Rise of Steph Curry. K.D., Kevin Durant's relentless pursuit to be the greatest. His latest book is Dynasties, The Ten Goat Teams that Change the NBA Forever. I haven't read that yet. I'll get to that in a second. We've got to start with this. there was a sense. I mean, my sense from outside of the Warriors was, okay, Steph is healthy. Clay will come back. Draymond, Draymond's getting older. KD is gone.

Jordan Poole appears to be interesting. Fourth or fifth seed kind of two young draft picks not ready to play. Wiseman's not available. So I thought, you know, they'll get back into the playoffs. And all of a sudden, you watch about 20 games and you're like, hell, this is the deepest best team in the league. So, but I'm an outsider. You're not.

Has their success caught you a little off guard? Oh, hell yeah. I didn't, I thought I was being radical by predicting the three seed. I was like, you watch, you watch it get to the top three. But I thought with Clay, right, you add Clay, Wiseman looks better. Man, this team could be scary. They could be a three seed otherwise. I'm like, Steph gets you into the mix for four and five, right?

That's what I thought. I'm looking at a team that's not just 15 and 2. They're blowing the doors on teams. Like, it is crazy. It's just not that they're winning. It's how they're doing it. They're winning with defense and rebounding, which is, it's nuts. They gave up defensive players.

They went and got shooting. They added Bialica and Otto Porter, who's like 74, it looks like Will Chamberlain, and moves like them too. But somehow he's rebounded to play a defense. Like, I don't understand his team. I've been saying for the longest time, you know, chill. Collin, everybody's like, this feels like 2015, 16, this 73 and now. I'm like, yo, relax.

I was there for that. This is not this. But I'm telling me every game, I'm like, hold on. Hold on. I'm feeling like the idiot. What clay will we get? What are you here and what do you see? super hungry like you know clay's been he's eager he's on the sidelines he looks really good i think

they're at the point now where it's like conditioning and just caution he hasn't played for two years you don't know what's going to happen when he goes full throttle right he can go full throttle and you know you can have soreness and tightness and swelling who knows but man when you watch him he looks pretty good he he'll be able to do this one thing right this one one thing, he'll probably be able to do until he's 80. He'll be able to stand at a spot behind a three-point line and he'll be able to hit that shot. Like, no matter what, he will be able to do that. And if they're this good with Namanya Bializa, right, if they're doing this with Gary Payton a second,

what do they do when it's Clay now who's going to hit 56% of those corner threes? So they don't even need that much of them, Kyle, that's the crazy part. Like, they don't need that much of them. But I think you'll get about 80, 85% clay. Well, as you noted earlier, the six or seven games I've watched, their defense is the separator. So Draymond Green, who's always been the bouncer at this sort of finesse bar, is a better offensive player than I think like last year. Like something, I mean, there are limitations on his ability to hit the three. But his game feels a little different to me this year when I've watched.

It's a little more dynamic. Explain it to me. He's not playing offense scared. There was a time in like 20, well, 2015, 16 where Dremont was a central part of the office. He would get you double digits. He had the assist. He's running the pick and roll with Steph.

And he mattered a lot. And if you didn't play him right, he was going to make you pay. And for the last couple years, he seemed to get really timid in offense. He couldn't make the three, which kind of impacted the rest of his game. I mean, he still kind of can't make the three, but he makes them in spots. Like he makes them win his money on the table, right? He makes those. The big three, he loves those.

But he's also attacking the rim. Like he's getting to the line. He's trying to punish bigger players. He's just aggressive and he's not playing timid on offense. And I think he spent the whole summer looking at that lab he missed against Memphis in the playing game that would have won it. And he's got this wide open lane and he tries this runner and it doesn't even come close. I think he looked at that and saw he just can't be half harder on offense.

He's got to go all out. Well, I also think Kevin Durant marginalized him. Durant and Curry are viewed as the world's best small shooter and big shooter. Clay's the best catch and shoot shooter. And I think Draymond's a smart enough player to know. At best, I was option five. Yeah. Whereas Andrew Wiggins is wildly inconsistent.

Clay's not healthy. KD's gone. So I think also Draymond feels a confidence that they do need 12 a night from me. Like, and by the way, he's always been a very good passer. He's always somebody that gets the ball up the floor, good outlet guy. I do think some of it is when Katie arrived, Marcus, there was a sense like, listen, man, we just need you to be the tough guy. We don't need your points.

And you can't hear that day after day. Watch it night after night and that not seep in. It's like an old trick, right? Like that just sat on the shelf forever. Like he just didn't. He never needed it. And when you got three dudes who can get you 30, like, why is Draymond shooting? Right.

I think he learned that like, yo, you, Steph needs you. Last year, Steph needed him. Steph is putting up, he's 32 years old. He's average in 30. He's playing against double and triple teams and boxing ones. And he just needed one other person to kind of relieve the pressure. Wiggins, like you said, was inconsistent. He needed Draymond.

Draymond couldn't provide it. And now I think that was a big deal. But now they just have to have it. They can't go without Dremont, at least not be like where there's 20 feet between him and a defender. And he's just standing there looking for a pass. Like he's got to be able to do something with the ball. This Thanksgiving, Fandul Sportsbook, is thankful for you. That's why they're giving all customers up to $100 bonus on same game parlay.

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Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on The Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that. Sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

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podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, Learn the Hardway, and listen now. President, Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Jersey, Tennessee, and Virginia, or West Virginia, refund issued as non-withdruable site credit that expires in seven days. Max, refund 10 bucks, restrictions to ply, c. Terms at Sportsbook, Fandule.com. Same game, partly available for multiple sports in all states on mobile slash web. problem, call 1-800 gambler. Visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Jersey, and Virginia. Or call 1-8009 with it at Indiana.

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the all-in-one commerce platform I love to start run and grow your business. Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. So upstarts, startups, and established businesses alike can sell everywhere. Synchronize online and in-person sales and effortlessly stay informed. I love Shopify. Have for years the tools and resources that make it easy for any business to succeed from down the street to around the globe. Shopify is more than a store. Connect with your

customers. Drive sales. Manage your day-to-day. Reach customers online with an ever-growing sweet of channel integrations and apps, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Pinterest, and more. More than a store, Shopify grows with you. Go to Shopify.com slash Colin, all lowercase, Shopify.com slash Colin for a free 14-day trial, full access at Shopify's entire suite of features. Shopify.com slash C-O-L-I-N. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour.

If you could find a way to get in. side. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment.

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windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. So as Jordan Poole emerges as a good 16 point-of-game guy, the initial belief was when Andrew Wiggins came over, he was a trade piece. But I really look at him now and I'm like, God, if you can have four guards or wings in this league, pool, Wiggins, Clay, Steph, I don't see him as a trade piece or is that still on the table? Nah, he's he's not a trade piece at all. Nah, the thing is, they would have to give up something with him in order to move him because he is making 30 plus a million over the next year. That's a lot of money to trade.

Yeah. So it's not the most movable contract. They don't want to give up Wiggins straight up. They definitely not putting a pick with him or another player with him or Jonathan Kaminger or nothing. So he's, he's staying and they love him. I mean, Wiggins is like the trophy for the Warriors way, right? We bring it, bring us your overlooks, right? Bring us your downtrodden. Bring us your forgotten stars and we'll show them how to play our way and they'll resurrect their career.

he is the poster child for that, for what they can do when they get a guy next to Steph Curry with Draymond and in their system. So they love him. He's not going anywhere. Well, you know, also he was always thought of as a one or a two in Minnesota, right, to Kat. Now there are nights he can be a four. And I think Andrew's always been a willing defender. But I also think there is, Andrew's personality isn't hyper-aggressive.

and I think when he drives to the arena knowing, maybe I'm hot, maybe I'm not. But there's no pressure for him to give them 26. I think in Minnesota, he was their perimeter player. Right? Like he was it. Like Kat was the inside. He was the outside.

And so I think in their culture, there's no, he's a, listen, we could argue this. He's the most talented three in the league. He's definitely the most talented four in the league. And I think he fixed that, right? And when Clay gets there, he will be the four. He won't be the three. I think that is it right there.

I mean, if you think about the one time Minnesota made the playoffs of Wiggins, Jimmy Butler was there. Jimmy Butler took the pressure off of him, right? He is the ideal third player because he is actually good. That's one of the things we forget about Wiggins while we spend a lot of time criticizing him. It's only because of his salary in his draft position. You take all that away. Wiggins is a good basketball player.

He's got a nice bag. He can shoot the ball. He plays defense. He's a really good player. So if somehow you could stomach the $33 million, like you're actually getting great returns. He's a with no pressure. And we got to account for this. The third or fourth best defender is guarding him.

Steph has taken one, maybe two of the best defenders. Clay will take another one, right? Like Draymond is going to take one because he has the ball so much. And that's why his aggressive matters. a bad defender in front of Draymont, he's got to be able to eat, which means Wiggins is left with me and you garden him. And he could drop 30 on us any day, right? He's at least a definite threat. And you can see it now. He just feels better about how he's attacking a basket. I don't know, he ducked on Carl Anthony Towns and something happened. I saw that. Because he hasn't, he's averaging

24 points of like 56% shooting since ducking on towns. So if he's going to be this aggressive, If you can hang it up, he's going to be great. Marcus, it's a really good point. I've talked to NFL GMs about this, and there are so many good receivers and so few good corners that if you have a good three, he's guarded by your third best corner. He plays like a one.

Yes. Right. And so in the NBA, Wiggins is now guarded by your four or three. Well, your third best player, he was a number one pick. He's a 44-inch vertical guy. Yes, absolutely. So it's a huge mismatch. It's a tough cover, yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, I think it's interesting right now in the West. The three best teams are Kerr, Monty Williams, and Quinn Snyder. And they all have a strong culture. And there is this sense that the West is weaker in the middle at the bottom. And it may be. I don't necessarily buy the Wizards in the playoffs. I think the young guys are great in the regular season.

I think Milwaukee will be a better playoff team than a regular season team. They're the opposite of Washington. all those big old bodies and experience. They're built for the playoffs. Yeah, Washington's built for the regular season. Maybe not the playoffs. But let's talk specifically about the West. You know, I've said this about the Lakers is that when they gave up Caruso and KCP,

they gave up a big chunk of their ability to defend the three. Like, I don't think the Lakers match up with the Warriors at all. I mean, and I don't know if they match up with Phoenix. Marcus, I don't see the Lakers. as a threat at all to win a second series in the West. I really don't. Do you? It's a huge, I mean, it's hard to say that with LeBron and Anthony Davis, right? It feels like in any series, those two could just be Hall of Famers and lead you there.

But that's a huge sacrifice they gave up. Using the NFL analogy, right? You know, since quarterbacks are so important, what's the next most important piece? It's a pass rusher. And a league full of guards who go out and get buckets, especially in the West, they literally just sacrificed their perimeter defense. They gave it up. KCP, Caruso, like they just gave it up.

Did a Schrooter, a guy who could be pesty, and they've decided like, yo, it's Westbrook. And they got Kent Baysmore to kind of salvant some of that, but you lose a lot of offense with that. So it's a weird choice that they made, and it puts them in this position where they're going to need LeBron to do it all again. And that is the problem.

They need LeBron to defend on the perimeter. They need him to score. They need him to run the offense. And they're going to need him to do that for a lot of the regular season if they're going to not be in a play-in game again. So the problem that they thought they were solving by getting the Westbrook to making sure they're kind of secured in case LeBron goes down and wants to sit out. You've got to deal with Steph Curry, Devin Booker, Luca, who's basically a guard, right?

Chris Paul, like the top of the way, Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell. Like, you want to win? you got to guard those dudes and they basically sacrificed all the dudes that can guard him. Yeah. The, um, I want to touch on Kevin Durant. So I, I, I am not a rear view mirror participant in this. I thought leaving Steph for Kyrie Irving was an egregiously bad decision. I think Steph is one.

The history one, right? Well, I think Steph's maybe the greatest superstar teammate in the history of team sports. Brady's probably first or second and Steph. Selfless team guys would take pay cut. give up shots. It's all about winning. And he's also mature. Married Charities, kids.

I mean, Steph's a real adult. Kyrie's a mega talent, but is a different cat. And I mean, now, I really, about three weeks ago, maybe it was a month ago, Kevin Durant was asked about Kyrie and he said, I haven't talked to him. And I'm like, oh, bro. Not only having you talked to him, you admitted it to the press. So that's a message. like you're sending it out there like I'm done with him I don't you know KD I don't think he

retires as a Brooklyn net what do you think 12 months to 24 months you can think he's going to sit there in that situation with marginal ownership front office where do you think his future lies I think a lot of that depends on if you can win a championship I really do that I was there for that scene when the Warriors are there. And in his hometown, their chant MVP for Steph, right? Like you were there. The Warriors fans, oh, yeah, Warriors fans literally took over the arena. It was, it was one of the wild scenes I've seen in the last five years where Steph touches

the ball and the crowd is rising to his feet, like begging him to do something great. It was, it was wild. And it definitely crystallized his choice, not just necessarily to leave the Warriors, but to choose Brooklyn. like a secondary franchise and, you know, thinking he could lift it. But I do think if he wins a championship, especially without Kyrie, it kind of submits him as the guy who people said he wasn't. And at that point, I think that changes the stakes, right?

To me, he's in the ideal situation for him. He left because he wanted his own thing, and now he's got it. And there's no dispute about whose team it is. So if they win a championship, which we learned last year, year he could do like he doesn't need much around him it was like Bruce brown and and Blake Griffin and he almost beat Milwaukee right which might have been the championship but if he could win a title I think it changes everything I don't know if Brooklyn ever becomes this fortress of love you know of reverence you know because his game deserves it but I just don't

it's going to be tough to turn Brooklyn into that like in the shadow of the nix and I think I think Kevin Durant deserves that. So does he go looking for it? I think if he gets a championship, now he's free. But I don't know if he can leave again without a title. I don't think he would do that. Well, I was talking to somebody about two years ago before he left Golden State. And they said, trust me, Katie's a wander.

It's just his personality. He's a wanderer. When you look back at the time you covered him and you were pretty spot on with everything, can it be said that you were still a little shocked he left? by the end, no, but yeah, when you just kind of step back and be like, wow, he really left this. Like, that's jarring. But by the end, it was clear like he was going to go to everybody who was around here. Everybody knew what was up, you know, the team knew what was up.

But in hindsight, because of who Katie is, because of what he appreciates, what he likes, it was jarring. And it made a lot of sense, though, that he went to go play with his friend. To me, that always made sense. Like him and Kyrie are friends. He went to play with his friend. That stuff matters to him. So it is a little interesting now to see him playing without his friend. Right.

But it was like, no, I think Kevin Durant is constantly in search of a challenge, constantly of a challenge. And I think it wasn't challenging anymore to worry. So it didn't surprise me that he left in that sense. I want to touch on this book you have because I have touted your previous two books. And I have not read this one. It's called Dynasty. it's behind you, the 10 goat teams that change the NBA forever. So I haven't read it yet.

So you've got to give me two teasas here. What's, okay, so the first one's the Celtics, right? With Russell? Nope. Earlier, the Minneapolis Lakers with George Miking. Okay, why did they change the league? They started it. Like, there is no league without them.

NBA was like this fumbling kind of second rate pro league. Nobody cared about pro basketball. Colin, they played in cages. They were called cages back then. It was like kind of a joke. People cared about college basketball and AAU. But George Miking was such a big draw. He was a, he was a unicorn in every sense.

This was before seven footers play basketball. This was before when you saw somebody tall in the street and you wonder, hey, do you play basketball? Like nobody thought that about tall people back then because tall people didn't play basketball like that. So this seven foot dude who started playing basketball became such a job. draw, and the only draw, by the way, the only draw, the only marquee figure, because they're all kind of pro teams that were popping up and failing. But wherever Mike and went, that's who has success. So when his league merged with the league that would become the NBA, they won three straight. They proved the NBA or professional basketball in America was viable. Without them,

it ain't happening. They're the Sugar Hill gang of the NBA. No hip-hop without Sugar Hill game. No NBA without the Mike and Lakers. Okay. Now give me one of the 10 teams I'd be surprised with in modern history that I may be caught off guard with. Pistons? Would you be surprised by the Pistons made it? Yeah. The Lamb Beer, Isaiah, Rodman, Sally, Mahorn Pistons?

Yeah, the bad boy pistons made it. To the chagrin of the Elijah O'Haw Houston Rockets and even the LeBron Wade Miami Heat. but I definitely value the Pistons like impact on basketball, how we just, no matter what, no matter where you go, if you say bad boys, you know what we're talking about, right? They have, they are cultural icons in addition to being champions, to repeat champions. And people forget, like, they were in the run. They won two titles, but they were in the mix for like five years. Yep.

They just took some great als, but that was a great team. They changed how we view defense. They changed how we viewed physical players. Like, they actually, low-key invented the stretch five. Bill Lambert might have been the first stretch five. It would be a history. Oh, that is a great point. They evolve the game in a way.

People sleep on the two guards, the two little guards, Isaiah and Joe Dumars who could shoot. Like, a lot of that stuff wasn't commonplace at the time. And they did it. And we never forget them. Like they're their cultural icon. So I went with them. By the way, you know what's interesting about that team?

How many coaches and general managers were on that roster? It's one of the smartest, most accomplished basketball executive teams ever. And we thought of them as tough and wrestlers and dirt. Lambeer coached Dumars. Yes. Isaiah. It was full of really successful. Rift.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's crazy. people talk about their defense and all that, right? But you know what really made them believe? But they were an incredible offensive team. As a matter of fact, Vinnie Johnson, microwave.

Yes, they were incredible offensively. Actually, they actually started as this offensive team and they developed this defensive identity. But they were incredible. They had two guards who could shoot the lights out. They had a five who could shoot. They had dudes coming off the bench who could get you 20. And remember, people forget,

they had Adrian Dantley, who's one of the great scores. That's right. all time. This was an elite offensive team that learned how to play defense and built this identity and that's how they became champions. So in your book, do you rank them in

terms of basketball greatness or just cultural and kind of macro level greatness? I went against my better judgment to rank them because I feel like this conversation is a little bit more important than rankings. I thought about

the 14-year-olds who are falling in love with the NBA and like educating them about it. Because to me, I feel like one thing we don't do in basketball enough is appreciate the previous eras. So it's easy to look at the Russell Celtics and say, man, Bob Coosie was dribbling with his palms, right? Like we can look at that and say it's not a big deal.

But I feel like I wanted to create more of an appreciation for them. I wanted to create something that was greater than just rank. So my bent was to kind of follow the growth of the league through the eyes of the dynasty. So you could see how the league started, how it evolved, how it advanced, and how it infiltrated itself into culture and society, but through the lens of the dynasties. So you start with Mike and you probably go to the Celtics. And there's this sense that there was a gap in the 70s with no super teams. It was the Sonics.

It was the Sixers. It was the Blazers. The Knicks. So did you go from like the 60s to the 80s? Was there a gap with no dynasty? There was a gap. There was a gap. But I did talk about the gap. But there was like this power vacuum in a sense where there was a lot of good teams.

And they all kind of won, by the way. The Blazers, the Sonics, the Knicks, they all had their time. They just didn't dominate the era. Then the next domination comes with like the Showtime Lakers, right? It's when Magic and Kareem team up. But that era, that's one of the things. That's why I wanted to write this book. But we don't know about the 70s era.

We don't know about any of these teams. We talk about the Willis Reed game. We don't know that that was Clyde Frechie. He was incredible that game seven in the 1970 final. So it's stuff like that where it's like I just want people to know about it more than debate about it. Well, I grew up loving basketball in the 70s and I liked the Washington Bullets and the Sonics where the bullets had Kevin Grevy, Phil Sheenere, Wes unselled, Elvin Hayes, Kevin Lockery. I think was their coach. And they faced the Sonics in back-to-back finals.

Sonics had Gus Williams, who I think next to Bernard King's the most underrated player in league history, Dennis Johnson, John Johnson, Lonnie Shelton, Jack Sigma. Those teams both. You know, if Seattle wins two, we think of them differently. If Washington, I think only won one as well, I think they split. And so the 70s did not lack great basketball players. Yeah, yeah.

What happened is they just all took turns. doing the Sixers were really good in the 70s. Man, Sixers are one of the teams. Tos, Tony, Steve Mix, George McGuinness, they were loaded. Loaded. So Sixers kind of hurt, like, they hurt my heart, right? Like, I feel like that was a great team that gets zero love. Like, none, you never even hear about them.

And they were so good. We know about Cowan and the Celtics. We know about Bill Walton and the Blazers. we know about the Knicks. We even know about downtown Freddie Brown and Liddy Wilkins, right? We know nothing about that Sixers team, which was incredible. Like, it really kind of hurts a little bit. And then you go like, you know, think about this.

They end up having Dr. J., Andrew, Tony, Moses Malone, and they were in all of those wars with the Lakers and Seltsy. Yep. But we don't even, but like with one go differently, we're talking about them. Absolutely. And not maybe one of those other teams. But they just kind of get exed out of history because Magic and Bird won the most. But they were right there.

So it's the Sixers, man. The Sixers are like the great basketball franchise that nobody ever talks about. Like it's unbelievable. And I feel like we should know about this, but we don't. Yeah, Billy Cunningham was the coach, the fiery coach. So, no, hey, listen, I grew up with those in that era. And those Sixers teams, you know, I don't even know what they missed because their forwards could score. You know, Caldwell Jones was more of a defender.

they really did have it all. It's really crazy. They should have been a two or a three-time champ. They really, I would, the construction of that team was much better than the Heedles. It really was. Oh, no question. Bigger, better guard play, more depth. They just, LeBron was so special.

He overcame and he completely dominated the Eastern Conference. So the path to the finals was easy. They lost what? One, two, three, four, five finals. I mean, it's cold-blooded when you think about it. They're the greatest runner-up team like that nobody ever talks about. It's unbelievable how good they were. Obviously, a lot of us know that, you know, the whole beat L.A. chant started because the 76ers beat the Celtics.

Yep. And like a war of a seven-game series. And Boston fans were like, all right, now you got to take care of the Lakers. But those teams, I mean, they had Daryl Dawkins, like, as the Senate. Like, some of these teams were so loaded and so good and so right there. They just happened to run against magic and Larry Burr, which is cold-blooded. Okay, I can't wait to read this. Dynasties, the Ten Goat teams that change the NBA forever.

Get your publisher to send me a copy. Marcus Thompson is always, buddy. I love talking to you. I'm sending you one, and it will have penmanship inside of it. How about that? You're the best. Love your stuff. Thanks.

Thank you so much. Appreciate you. All right. Hope you enjoyed Marcus Thompson. Check us out. Sign up and subscribe, please, to the Volume Sports YouTube channel. Just push subscribe. You get all of our interviews, all my stuff. I think you'd like it, and I think you'll love Marcus Thompson. The volume. Thunderstruck, adjective.

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