The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - BEST OF: Colin Cowherd on Caitlin Clark + Indiana Fever Reactions

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

Colin Cowherd is joined by Danny Parkins, Jason Timpf, and Nick Wright to discuss the WNBA’s biggest draw: Caitlin Clark. What does the media get wrong about Caitlin Clark? Is the Indiana Fever star the next Michael Jordan? Will she be a billion dollar athlete like LeBron James? What will the future hold for one of the most popular basketball players on the planet? Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021.

And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the U. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I'm going to throw this at you.

There are some genetic and gender realities that seem unfair to me. You're driving on the freeway. You're driving on the freeway. Be totally honest. If a skinny guy is in a car eating, he's got burgers. You're thinking to yourself, that guy's on the go. He doesn't have time to stop. That guy is a hustler.

He is making things happen. Okay. A heavyset guy in a car is eating burgers. You're like, and I am too. Oh, really? You can't even drive without eating. I mean, give me a break. Like, what?

What, you can't, you can't pull over. You have to, it's a, it's a, we have no idea about those two people. That is how people view weight. We're all waitists at times. Okay. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not saying no to your premise here, Colin. I can't.

I love your. Go ahead. I'll never refute it. Here's a gender reality. Okay. Men can hate each other. Jordan still holds a grudge against Isaiah. Somehow it makes him more likable. Yeah. Men can taunt, can trash talk. If Angel Reese appears to hate Caitlin Clark, it becomes a race topic. It is outrageous. It is unfair. And I'm like, time out. women athletes can hate rivals too. It's not, to me, I'm like, is it race? Well, hate is, it used to be a commodity.

Like you loved the writer cup. We hated the Euros. Now everybody's rich. But the Caitlin Clark Angel Reese rivalry, one got the best of the other in college, the junior year, the other one got the best to senior year. one goes Midwest small city, one goes big city, one gets more press. I just, I look at it and I think it doesn't bother me that Angel Reese doesn't like

Caitlin like, like, by the way, Caitlin's game is fun and flashy. Angels a rebounder. Like, she's there probably got a little built-in animosity. She won't get the press. I think it's the worst story in sports media. I hate the discourse around it. I think it brings out the worst in everybody. I really do think it's, it's, it's, it's,

a lot of people are showing their ass on this story. Of course what you just said is correct. One of my things, it's a trope, it's a cliche that I've just, I like the turn of phrase that I created. Less hate in the world, more hate in sports. Sports hate is good. It is objectively good. Now, when it leads to like fights in the stands, okay, fine, someone took it too far. But that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing. Trash talk, rivalries, bulletin board material, lobbying shots in the press, hard fouls, stare downs, the occasional fight. Those things are good.

They're good for ratings. They're good for business. They're good for fan interest. They're good for jersey sales. They are good. It is good for the WNBA, for there to be sports hate, for there to be rivalries. It is a good thing. That is so objectively, obviously true that I can't believe anyone even dares to deny it.

I do think the bird magic stuff is a little ridiculous because bird and magic in terms of talents were kind of equals. Yes, yes. This is more like Michael Jordan and Bill Lambier. You know, they were rivals. That's what I'm. Yeah, but they're not really the same type of player, right? They hated each other. They had great moments, but they were not like, no one was like, you know who carried the NBA at popularity?

Michael Jordan and Bill Lambere. It was not how we described. Caitlin Clark is the phenomenon. She's the comet. And like, does that spur jealousy? No doubt. Are there interesting racial components to that story? that I think are fair to be discussed for a league that has had great players, white and black,

before Caitlin Clark, why haven't they caught on in the same type of way? Like, I think that there is, like, fair conversations to be had there. But a hard foul by Angel Reese in a basketball game that, like, didn't even result in a fight. It resulted in, she said the F word. Like, what the hell is the matter with people? I mean, it's, it's embarrassing. Like, and the, we don't need to name the names. Everyone knows the discourse of, you know, who's going.

Like, you're talking about people's wives and you're making it personal and then you're bringing all the, you just shut up. Shut up. It's just so, it's so beneath the industry to like take the discourse of online. you are amazing at not being too online. I give you a ton of credit for it. Nick, Nick Wright, it's amazing how he doesn't read his mentions. I still am addicted to my phone. I still read my mentions. I have gotten much, much, much, much, much better about not letting it bother me and not responding. But it is so very clear that way too many people in our industry formulate their

opinions based on the algorithm that they see on X. And it's just, just complete horseshit. Like, I don't believe that people that go to that basketball game left being like, you know what that was a race war. Like, you know, I'm, it's crazy. And I'm not the biggest WNBA fan. I'm not claiming to have WNBA bona fides or like watching for years or like going 10 deep on all the rosters.

So people like, Parkins, I don't give a shit about your WNBA takes. That's fine. I just know sports and narratives. That is a good thing for business. And people taking their online commentary that is designed to divide us and then making it actually like inform their sports opinions on television when they are multi-millionaire former professional athletes, they don't even realize what they're doing, but it's just very embarrassing.

I really do find it embarrassing. Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to like and subscribe. Thank you. Now back to the video. Yeah, it's my take on Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese from the beginning is the league was growing, but she's Taylor Swift in tennis shoes. She's not, doesn't have to be the best player in the league. Taylor Swift doesn't have the best voice.

Adele does. Like, she doesn't have the best voice. Sure. There's some visceral connection between young women, middle-aged women, and Taylor Swift that I can't explain. I'm usually good at listening to music or watching sports and going, that's a superstar. I didn't see it with Taylor Swift. There's been Lady Gaga, I connected. There have been a lot of artists.

You were Katie Perry guy? When I heard Katie Perry, I was like Adele, when I heard Adele, when I heard Adele, was like, holy shit, what is that? That's crazy. Lady Gaga did that to me. I remember Garth Brooks years and years ago hearing him and going, it was like new country. It wasn't like, you know, old in my dog and my porch. It was like cool country.

And I'm like, Shania Twain, I'm usually pretty good at spotting stuff and going bang. The Taylor Swift up, I can't even explain it now. She's got a nice voice. She's really smart, but I can't explain it. Caitlin Clark's not that hard to explain. Holy shit. She's taking shots. Yeah, of course.

some NBA players wouldn't take. Of course. I said she's Steph Curry plus Jason Kitt. The 60 foot passes, the 30 foot bombs. You're like half the NBA would not make those plays. She's a comet because it doesn't look like anything else. Right. Of course.

If a player in five years started dunking like Anthony Edwards, like, oh my God. It's unbelievable because we haven't seen. it in the WNBA, right? So yeah, I think that part of it is also very obvious. She's the Steph Curriization of basketball has hit women's basketball in a way. And at a moment, and you and I've talked about this months ago now, like, listen, part of this is ESPN, which the world is changing, cable is changing. Fine. It is still the behemoth of sports television. they promote the shit out of it.

Yeah. That helps. Like, real talented analysts, real talented broadcasters, real, they're not on ESPN news. Like, they're in good time slots, on good networks, on ABC, on ESPN in prime time, on weeknights, with a real pregame show and a real postgame show and a real play-by-play guy. And they do a good job on college hoops. And so, like, they're invested in it, and it's a cyclical thing, and they hit this phenomenon. Like, the fact that that game that was a blowout, outrated Yankees Red Sox, that matters.

Like, that matters. And so I just, yeah, I mean, all the respect in the world to her talent, all the respect in the world to, all the respect in the world to, like, people who have been WMBA fans for forever and have been like, I'll get to say I told you so. But I just, I wish our media colleagues realized a little bit better that they were being played by the algorithm because they're all athletes. They can't possibly be offended by that foul. It's impossible that a bunch of football players are so offended by that foul that they had to make this big of a deal out of it. So I just eventually they'll need to talk about the basketball. And I think for some people, it's just easier to culture war everything.

And I think it's unfortunate. Okay, I want to bring this up. We can close on this because I saw this today. It's fascinating. So a university professor in finance looked up the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA. This is insane. So this year, last season in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark was 26.5% of all economic activity as a rookie on the worst team in the league when she entered it.

So now she has an $8.28 million deal with Nike. So, you know, she's going to eat. merchandise in the league went up off a rookie from a Midwest-based school on the worst team in the league, 234%. But here was the one that struck me. So before she got there, the Indiana fever, the valuation of the franchise was $90 million. Remember, they play a short season. It's not like the NBA where it lasts like six months.

after playing what 40 games the valuation of that team now is 340 million dollars she is almost that's what NBA teams were selling for 10 years ago she has called the value I was talking I was with a group of friends tonight at dinner and people that didn't know the WNBA were like asking well why like what does she do and we said

well, she makes passes and takes shots that nobody else in the sport does. So she's a bit of a, it's like when Tiger Woods came on the tour, like he drove it further. He's long putting was better. He looked like a football player and the red shirts. Like he just was different than every other golfer you grew up with and people like unique and different. Here, my question to you is there's still no other, like somebody said at the party, well, there'll be another Caitlin Clark. and I'm like, well, there's not another Steph Curry.

Like, there's guys that can shoot threes. I don't think it's a game you duplicate. And listen, let's just be honest. There are more great male athletes in the world than female athletes. There is no second Steph Curry. There is no other player that plays like that. My take is she could be a billion-dollar athlete. Are you surprised by it?

Like, when I see these numbers, I'm like, oh, this is. is Tiger in the tour. This doesn't this isn't even Jordan. This is totally different. Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are two real kind of like ultimate show type

of athletes that you see, meaning like must see television. And it's the supreme vertical athlete which think like young LeBron or kind of like Anthony Edwards now. Dominique was for a while. Like the guy that does stuff in the air that is unlike anything you see

anywhere else. Dr. Jay. Yeah. And then the second piece of it is just unbelievable shot making. Those are the two things. Those are the two things

that really bring eyes to television. To take it a step further, there are two types of basketball players that I think are far and away the most winning impact in the current game of basketball. It's the big, strong playmaker. Think LeBron, Luca Yokic.

and it's the indomitable shooter, which there's really only been Steph. I think those two types of players are the players that give you the best chances to win basketball games in the modern, in the modern world. Now, what makes it fascinating to me, because that's what Caitlin Clark is. She's a different type of player and she can do a lot of different types of things, but she's essentially bringing a Steph Curry-like basketball impact to the WMBA. It's really this simple. If you can shoot the way that she shoots or the way Steph shoots,

and you can perpetually be in motion running around. Inevitably, there is an overreaction to your shooting ability. And we see this all the time with Caitlin. Just like you're going to see, you're going to see Alia Boston get nonstop easy buckets in the mid range or rolling to the basket because every time she sets a screen for Caitlin, her defender is stepping up to guard Caitlin. Because as she comes off of that screen,

if you're not there, she's going to shoot it. And she's going to make it. And so there's a reaction that inverts spacing and brings a four on three. Because you bring multiple defenders away from the rim, there's a four on three with a vacated paint. And because of that, there's a lot of easy opportunities to score there. Like, that's the thing with Steph Curry. Like, Steph Curry is not the same shot maker that he was four years ago in 2021.

But just the simple threat of him running around gives the warriors a chance to score. And that's the thing. like Caitlin hasn't even really started hitting shots yet this year the way that she's capable of, but everyone knows she can and they guard her in that fashion. And so to me, it's kind of like a proof of concept in that if you can shoot and you can run around the way that Steph does and you can strike fear into a defense in that way, the trickle down effects with the way that defenses guard you just make everything so much easier for her. And like you could argue she's already the best offensive engine in the WMBA. And she's literally a second year player. And,

And like, and she still has so much room to improve. Like she still struggles with ball pressure. She still turns the, she turned the ball over, uh, too much against the liberty the other night. She, uh,

still has a little bit of an issue where she kind of crossfires across her face, which makes it so she can only shoot going left. She needs to build it out so that she can shoot running to her right as well. But like, judging by her psycho competitive attitude, she's probably going to figure that stuff out in the next year or two. And then she'll be the best player in the league. And so like to me,

it's just she fits the mold of one of the most, impactful types of basketball players you can be today, which is the deadly movement shooter. If you're a deadly movement shooter, it just opens up so many things for an offense. And honestly, I just think I think she's must-see television, Colin. I've watched

all four of her games. And I'm in my busy season. Like, you'd think I'd be taking a break. My wife said to me the other day, she's like, you're watching more basketball. I'm like, it's Caitlin Clark. We're watching more basketball. Come over here. Let's watch this. Like, she's incredible. Nothing says summer like long days, clutch plays and fire.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called... Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the René. a Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

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I mean, it was insane. You just, people bounced off Shack. Yokish complains constantly. Like, people are bouncing off me. She doesn't quite get as favorable a whistle as you think. So I think. Neither does Steph, too. That's the funny part.

Well, and I think I will give the WNBA credit. They just didn't understand the tsunami of her popularity. Like they didn't get the schedule. And you don't know what. you don't know. They've done a much better job to, I mean, all her games are on television. Every time I turn on a WA, every time I see a promotion for the WNBA, it's Caitlin Clark. So they're, but I do think there's a process on, you know, you're an official. You don't want to give her too favorable a whistle because the players in the league all resent her to some

degree she's getting all this attention. And I don't, and I will say this. I've defended the WNBA with this. Baseball and the WNBA feel. ignored. The NFL and the NBA and college football, they get a lot of press. And baseball always feels like, hey, we're America's pastime. So they're very insular, sometimes very provincial. And the WNBA similarly, you don't pay attention to us. So there's part of it, like I get. Like they sort of resent this one player. Nobody talks WNBA. They do, and it's all her. You know, I remember when Tiger was 18, 19, 20 years old coming on to the tour, there were a lot of people in golf that were like, could you guys show, could you talk in your sports cast about

anybody other than Tiger Woods? So she's not Bryce Harper came into baseball. He fought with an own teammate in the dugout because it was like, oh, everybody wants to talk to. So I do defend the WNBA is that I get if nobody paid attention to you for 26 years. And now they do and they feign interest in the rest of the league. What we all care about is Caitlin. So the animosity built up by players, I give it a little bit of a pass. You know, I think people are spending too much time on race. It is what it is. There's a million platforms, a million opinions.

But I don't know, my take is there's still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How to market, how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend. And it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me. I think that, like, when I see the complaining, like I saw some players complain and some, some members of the media complained that she was on TV so much. And let's just take fairness

and just put it to the side for a minute. Like even with Nike and giving Caitlin a shoot, like set that aside for a minute and just focus on her being on television. Okay? Her being on television brought my eyes to it. I didn't watch the WMBA. I have grown to really enjoy watching WMBA basketball

even when she's not on. And they're like, Nefisa Collier became one of my favorite basketball players watching her in the finals run last year. And what brought me to the television was Caitlin. So like, let's say that the league came out. They're like every Caitlin Clark games on national television, like that's just what we're going to do, deal with it.

That would be genius because the best way you can market the other WMBA players is to have them play against Caitlin Clark because we'll all be watching. Okay, well, no one's covering the rest of the league. Okay. But if you put Caitlin on television and you get more people to watch, it will create more WMBA fans. And we live in the most, Colin, I started making NBA content out of my guest bedroom. Okay.

You create a bunch of WMBA fans. Passionate members of the media will originate from that mass and will cover the league better. And overall, the league will gain in popularity and gain an impact. And it will become a momentous thing that carries forward and actually does shine a big flashlight on the rest of the WMBA. Caitlin Clark is the vehicle with which to might be. microwave that to accelerate it and to move it into a fast track towards what could be a bright future for the WMBA.

It's great basketball. It's genuinely great basketball. She's the best vehicle with which to elevate the sport. I think anything they can do to put her on TV and promote her is the best thing they could do for the sport. Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed. You'd seen fights. You started buying pay-per-view cards and sitting through two and a half hours. to get to his fight. And then all of a sudden, you found yourself a year later, hooked on two other fighters, because Dana White would put the second most popular fighter in the undercar. Exactly. So all of a sudden,

it's John Jones into Connor McGregor. And then they, so it's just basic marketing. And I've said before, I do think the WNBA women's basketball, and I'd said this years ago on FS1, probably five years ago, the sport was getting better.

The women were, you know, several generations of women were encouraged to play basketball and to be athletes. And nutritionists came into the sport and better trainers. There was money in the league. So they had better training. And the players were getting better.

But it takes this. Listen, it took Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a league. There was some financial problems. So it's not like a gender issue. It's a, I mean, I think Connor McGregor's erosion as a fighter has hurt UFC. It doesn't feel as urgent. And that's already established. And so, and we all know that Michael Jordan left.

Once Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up, Michael left. The ratings dropped 50%. So this stuff outside of the NFL, it's all cyclical. It's all market-based. It's all star-based. And it's just the WNBA, you know, was waiting for its first tiger. And golfs probably had four in my life. You know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger.

I think Rory's got a little bit of it, Phil Mickelson. So the history of golf, you know, if modern history, it's got like five guys that have done it. So there's no reason to be defensive about it. It just, it's all these leagues, they all eventually, I mean, look at boxing. Ali took it from whatever it was to the next level. Then there were Sugar Ray Leonard and Hagler. But when Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to watch Larry Holmes.

It took an old George Foreman and selling it. a grill that you bake chicken on or cooked chicken on. Literally to get the casual back into boxing was George Foreman's second tour. So this is the way sports works outside of football. The cyclical thing is so fascinating because that's literally what the NBA is about to go through. LeBron and Steph won eight titles in 11 years and now there's not really a big name yet. Now you could argue that the parody might prevent the rise of a star and that's a separate conversation for another day.

But it is really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right now at the NBA. the old guard's going out. There's a new guard coming up. Years and years ago, this may have been 15 years ago. Sports fans, I think, are more savvy today than ever. And a lot of it's just because of the explosion of social media. And you can learn things just watching TikTok. I mean, I use the TikTok store every day.

And by the way, it's never let me down. I buy power bars. I buy workout gear. It's never let me down. The TikTok store is completely undervalued. You'd think that's amazing. Yeah, the first. time I use it, I'm like, uh, sketchy. I'm probably getting robbed. It's $24. It's fantastic. Everything I buy in the TikTok store is amazing. That's not an ad. I just, I bought power bars today.

So, but I was thinking years ago, I did a topic where I said, this is when I would take calls. I was only doing a radio show. I said, you guys don't understand. Madonna was in her prime. I said, it's much more well known than Derek Jeter in his prime. It's not close. One's a global star. I got 30 calls in a row. No way. Derek, I'm like, Derek, the brand of the Yankees is bigger than Derek Cheater. Like Derek Cheater's not the, if he played in Kansas City, he'd just be an all star. Sports fans, they struggle sometimes with like recognizing that nobody knows who Jalen Hertz is out of America

unless you're a sports fan. Your sister who doesn't love sports doesn't know who Jalen Hertz is even after the Super Bowl. She's heard of maybe the tush push, but that's about it. And I was thinking about this. How many NBA players, and I know Caitlin Clark is an athlete, but how much, she's like beyond that now. She kind of transcends sports. She's like, it's racial, it's political, it's polarizing.

It's a lot of things. Yes. How many NBA players are more famous than Caitlin Clark? LeBron Steph, absolutely. Maybe Duran. That's what I put. I said, I wrote down. KD. Maybe.

In one year, out of women's basketball for a horrible team when she arrived, outside of LeBron and Steph, she is the most well-known basketball player currently playing in the United States. Oh, yes. And I don't think that's close. Like, I think I might have said this to you last year that I thought the most famous basketball player, under 30 was Caitlin Clark. And it's like you said, I don't think it's particularly close. Like when the, she is demonstrably and inarguably more famous than all of this generation's NBA stars. She just is. Like it really, LeBron is, I don't know, probably one of the 20 most famous people in the world. at a secondary level there is Steph and at a far different level there is Durant and the next

basketball person like active basketball person is Caitlin Clark like the the it's I don't even I don't think that's a hot take I don't think that's controversial I think that's just obvious and I think that it is awesome for the sport and I think that it is awesome for sports fans and it is what I think some people need to be okay like this is this is apples and oranges but not exactly and this is not a fair comparison but just the audience is smart they'll figure it out I think it's probable that Lanzo, I'm sorry, that Lamello ball is more famous than Tyrese Halliburton. No one with the brain thinks he's better than Tyrese Halliburton. But he is more famous.

You agree. So I think sometimes like diehard WMBA or women's basketball fans conflate the discussion about fame and popularity with a ranking of players' quality. Now, Caitlin Clark is, to me, I mean, she was first team all WMBA last year. She has a legitimate argument that she's a top five player in the league, and before this injury, probably was going to make a real case to win league MVP this year. But if someone's like, hey, I watch, I have WMBA League pass, I watch the whole league I have for years,

I think she is currently the seventh best player in the league. I'd listen to him, like, okay, maybe, like, you know, Brianna Stewart, Asia Wilson, like, whomever. But that's not the discussion. That now it is also important that your fame not lap your ability. Again, not to like, I'm just thinking because we're talking women in sports, an example of that to me would be like, this would make me feel old, but Anna Kornicova. Remember? So she was at a time the most famous women's tennis player.

And I think she was during a lot of that time, not one of the 20 best. She was more famous, far more famous than she was successful. But it's quite often that your fame lags your ability, as I think happens to Nikola Yokic, you know, as an example. And it is also often that your fame, you know, is a few steps ahead of your ability. When it is a supernova moment is when your fame, when you are the most famous, And you're the best. Like that was LeBron with the NBA. Obviously, Jordan.

Kobe, you know, at least was close to the best, if not the best for a brief period. And it's what is going to happen, I believe, with Caitlin Clark. Because I do think she will have a period where she is clearly the best player in the league. And again, it could happen sooner than later. But it's, it is so great for the sport because. she is someone that people show up to the party because of her, and where I give the evolution of the WMBA and women's basketball credit is, I think people show up to the party, whether it was for the women's NCAA tournament or the WMBA, and they're like, oh, this party's pretty

good. I like it. There's a level of physicality in this sport that isn't necessarily in the NBA anymore. Oh, it's always been chippier because they're not vertical. So they're banging into each other and it's a very physical lead. Exactly right. And so I think that if you have a good product and your biggest hurdle is getting people to sample the product, she's a godsend. There's no denying it.

And again, there's obviously there's a lot of complicated components to it. But just because something has complicated components doesn't mean every decision. about it has to be complicated. And you know, you can just be like, she is a supernova fame, a level of fame with one-of-a-kind talent, and it is game-changing for the entire league that she's at. Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to like and subscribe. Thank you. Now back to the video. Well, and also she had a rivalry with a star college player in college, so we have a visceral connection, which college basketball no longer gives you. It's what college football gives you all the time, where, you know, J.J. McCarthy, you're like,

oh, I mean, you see all these Buckeyes in Michigan Wolverines. What I think J.J. McCarthy, I think Michigan. Okay. Caitlin Clark, obviously, a huge story in the controversy around it. And I was thinking about, I was pretty hard on the WNBA when Caitlin Clark came in. And I thought, Guys, you can't open up with a New York Liberty in the Connecticut Sun. You want to groove her into some wins because remember, she went from the final four into camp, into playing. And the WNBA, they probably knew she would be good. They didn't think she'd quite be this good. Sure.

But it's getting to be a little bit like MJ. And they've done a better job this year. They had an easier schedule. They've put the games on television. So the WNBA took a lot of heat, a lot of heat. And Val Ackerman, the commissioner's like, okay, we got ourselves a complete Taylor Swift and tennis shoes rock star. And they've done a much better job this year. The officiating is not great, but the league's now just starting to make real money now, right?

Like, so it's the officials, maybe the last part, you know, it's. Well, yeah, I wonder with that, and I don't know. I'm not educated enough on this about what the hierarchy of officiating is. but obviously the best basketball officials in the world or the NBA. Officiate in the NBA. Right. Let's just, I shouldn't say the world.

Just let's just do the U.S. I assume the second best, like men's college basketball. Well, yeah. I would imagine the third best might be women's college basketball, because up until recently, that was a far bigger industry than the WMB. Like, so has the, and again, I'm. I am just speculating here. But is the WMBA simply not picking from the, you know,

are the people who are the best officials are like, well, it's way better jobs in officiating that I can get. Listen, so I assume that's going to be the case. They flew commercial airlines a year ago. And yeah, I think some still.

The NBA moved out of that in like the 80s. So it's like, it's just a different ballgame. But I was thinking about this. Most of the time the media gets it right. when it predicts an all-time star. In fact, I would argue, and I think people listening to this would push back, that we undersold Tiger.

Nobody thought Tiger was going to have the lowest scoring average ever, was going to have the tied for the most career wins ever, has the greatest earnings ever. Nobody, not even Nike would have guessed that. And within five years have the scoring record at all four majors. I mean, the tiger slam. The tiger slam. Yeah, no, no, no.

Okay. You're right. Tiger was Tiger, Serena. LeBron. I would argue all the all-time grates that turned into all-time grades also actually kind of exceeded expectation. Sorry to interrupt this great video, but please remember to like and subscribe. Thank you. Now back to the video.

Most of the time, I think Bryce Harper at 16 was considered arguably the best baseball prospect ever. he's turned out eight-time all-star two-time national league MVP, 340 home runs plus. That is a, if you would have said that when he was 16 on Sports Illustrate, he's going to be an eight-time all-star, two-time MVP. He'd be like, yeah, for the best prospect ever, that's in that elite class. But I think Caitlin Clark, LeBron and MJ,

I think they're better. And I thought Caitlin was going to be good. But Gino Oriema, UConn's coach. came out and said, and this guy knows basketball. He's the best recruiter in the history of the sport. He's like this idea she's going to walk into the WN. I know, but it was so, here's the thing. All the Yukon folks had like the legendary Yukon players who were then in media,

and then, Gino, they all kind of, in my opinion, had a bias of, man, this was supposed to be with. what everyone was saying about Paige Beckers a year ago, but Paige had blown out her knee and she missed time and that, and all of that. And so they, I think that they, and they also underestimated what a badass Clark was going to be. And I think they also looked at it and said, well, she's great and going to be great. But she's not better than Brianna Stewart or Diana Tarazi. And they, you know, if they had a transition, she will do. And the end, answer is she's a she is already one of the four best players in the league oh yeah is already

uh an absolute and i say this in the kindest words an asshole on the court like the way you kind of need to be they don't need to be but it's something people historically like in their athletes like a trash Larry Byrd Michael Jordan a trash talker yeah you know hard ass and she is already impacting winning. I think she has the best per game plus minus in the league of everyone that's not on the New York Liberty. Think about this. Cushing people. 10 years ago.

So the quality of WNBA play in the last 10 years has improved more than any league anywhere. The players are the nutrition's better. The strength is better. Go YouTube at WNBA game 10 years ago. They did not pass like this. Candice Parker 10 years ago led the league and assists at five and a half a game. A game. Not only is Caitlin Clark the best shooter, the best guard, the most influential.

She's also dealing nine assists per game. So what she's done is she's really changed the tempo. She's doubling these all-time assist numbers or close to it and giving you threes and shooting nine feet beyond the arc. So, I mean, as much as I liked her, and I thought she would be really good. I remember saying on the air, she's going to be, she's going to be really good, top 10 player really fast. I didn't think she'd be this. No, listen, she, I agree with you that I do think she is, and in contributing to winning, exceeding expectations. I also think that, and maybe eventually we'll get there, but there are so much in my, I don't know,

what you said on the air about this today because I missed it. But so much of the social media pearl clutching of basically we need to protect Caitlin Clark, I just think it's so, I think it's patronizing. And I also think it fails to recognize this is, in my opinion, the best case scenario for the league. The fact that she is. is has this swagger that there and Brew made this point

and I thought it was a really good one. The fact that yesterday's altercations primarily happened with Caitlin against other white players was actually a really nice thing because it removed any of the bullshit like oh are the black players

don't like it? No, you know who doesn't like Caitlin Clark? Everybody. Most of her opponents. You know, who historically is not that popular in sports, the young, awesome, swaggery, trash talking player. That player usually has allies on their team and their fans. Larry Bird got choked by Dr. Jay. Everybody hated Larry. And so that's awesome. Here's another thing that's awesome. This is only going to make Caitlin better and tougher and stronger. That's great. The fact that it is hard and that Like, because the idea, because some of Caitlin's, like, there is a real lunatic fringe on the internet about this conversation.

And I hate doing in life, I don't actually really think both sides are a problem very often. In the Caitlin Clark thing, it is both sides. It is people on both ends of the spectrum are out of their minds. And the biggest Caitlin fans are like, the league, this is the league's cash count. And if they, if they're not suspending these other players, they, she, could get hurt. Like, give me a break. It was a light shove. She fell down. She's going to be fine. The fever are going to be in big games for a long time. She is sustainably drawing eyeballs. And I do think it is no while people pointed out correctly. Oh, man, when she was out,

the ratings dropped. The other piece of this is the ratings dropped, but were still higher. than pre-Katelyn-Clark WMBA, which means, while, yes, some people are just showing up for her, some people showed up for her and we're like, oh, I like basketball, and this is a pretty good product. I'll stick around even if she's not there, at least some people did. It's the best thing imaginable for the league. It's the best thing imaginable for her.

And it is for us, you know, herein, hockey ended last night. Basketball probably ends tomorrow in the NBA. It'll be nice to have like a captivating sports story for the summer other than baseball, so I'm excited about it. The Volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

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