The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - BEST OF Nick Wright - Joe Burrow In TROUBLE, Cowboys Big Mistake, Baker Is Underrated

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

Best of Nick Wright’s appearances on the Colin Cowherd Podcast, including why Cincinnati Bengals QB Joe Burrow is in TROUBLE, what Cleveland Browns QB Shedeur Sanders NEEDED to be told, why George Pickens was a MISTAKE for the Dallas Cowboys, where Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Baker Mayfield ranks among the most underrated NFL quarterbacks, and more. Timeline: 2:45 - Burrow in trouble 7:30 - Baseballs biggest stars in best markets 15:15 - Draymond Green knows his role 24:30 - Shedeur Sanders got bad advice 33:45 - Trading for George Pickens was a mistake 45:00 - Baker Mayfield is underrated 50:00 - Is Jordan Love actually good? 55:30 - Russell Wilson’s decline 1:02:00 - Kyle Shanahan always gets a pass   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you're. know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom

of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Can I ask you a question? Sure, yeah, go ahead. After this year, take this year out of it. This group

of quarterbacks, the Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar, that group. They're all 28, 29. let's say optimistically, they all have 10 more good years. That's probably on the high end, but let's give them a decade. 10 more seasons, the 2025 season onward.

Man, at least one of those guys is never making much less winning a Super Bowl, like moving forward. So I know Joe's already made, because here's the way I was thinking about it. I'm like, okay, because everyone's like, do you think Josh will eventually get one? And intellectually, I'm like, yes, of course. He's a second best player in the league. Of course, he'll get one. But then I'm like, well, wait a minute.

Okay, so in the next 10 years, let's say Patrick slows down. He only makes four of the next day. Or Andy Reed retires. Yeah. So let's just say Patrick only makes four of the next 10. So there's six. So that's six for. Lamar, Josh, Joe,

I know you've got Justin Herbert getting to one eventually, Bo Nix, C.J. Stroud, and we're talking about 10 years. So there's a couple more generations coming into the league. Like these guys, all of these guys being in the AFC is devastating for the resumes they're trying to build. Well, and the one that's in trouble is Joe Burrow. The Bengals had to sell naming rights to the same. stadium to pay his contract. People don't understand this. The gentleman who, first of all, the Bengals don't have any money. They don't have any money. It's just like the poorest

ownership group. Joe Burrow knows it. They had to sell naming rights to a stadium to pay him. They started peeling off players even before they paid Jamar Chase. They're peeling off of them now. We haven't paid Jamar yet. Yeah. Yeah. And they're already peeling off players. They are the opposite of the Eagles. They are anti-risk. and reward. They take no risks. Tobin, the general manager, has been there forever. Pleasant, very nice guy. Got no power. I mean, the Brown family runs the organization. They are essentially a AAA operation in Major League Baseball that happens to have Joe Burrow. People make fun of the Raiders. The Raiders, because of some new ownership groups that have come in, are flush with cash. That's why they

can pay four coaches and three general managers. They got nothing but money. They got Mark Davis has nothing but money, and the Raiders are a brand. And also it's Las Vegas. It's a growing city. There's real money there. No state tax. Very attractive place. Cincinnati, they got no money. Burrow, they'll never have a stacked roster.

The only time to really be great with him was when he was on the rookie contract. When they pay Jamar Chase, they're out of money. Like Joe Burrow, I feel terrible for him. Joe Burrow would need to be superhuman. I mean, this year, he was as good as he's ever been. they couldn't make the plows players. Herbert's going to get better with Harbaugh. Like that's going to only get better.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Like you're just. Herbert, I think Burroughs the one in trouble. And here's the other, here's the other concern for all those guys. Will they,

maybe different for Joe because he's done it. But will those guys be able to play Patrick Mahomes? beat him, which is part of the hypothetical, and then psychologically be able to re-center and be like, that wasn't the Super Bowl. Not like, that's the thing that I would worry about for the bills. I do think, listen, Mahomes is not going to go undefeated against Alan in his career in the playoffs.

They will win. But man, if next year the bills finally beat the chiefs in the playoffs, it's going to be really hard to psychologically then reset and be like actually the next game's the tougher, bigger one. And so that's, I, the, we have never, I can't remember a time when it felt this disproportionate in quarterbacking talent conference to conference. And what it's going to mean for these guys kind of legacies when it comes to who they were as far as winning players or winning championships.

You know, I love experimenting on podcasting. I like talking about stuff, where stuff is going and where it's headed. What I find interesting about where sports is going, so I have, I have, I think we both like this. So I grew up a baseball fan. but the sport, it's like what Democrats name, like Bill Marr will say, the Democratic Party is leaving me. I haven't changed.

I was a baseball guy over a football guy when I was a kid. And then the sport just got slow and ponderous and football was just better on television. And I've lived through TV. Like that's my life as a kid. I'm going to throw something at you that I think is going to happen. Is that I think if you take out the NFL, that every other sport is dependent on where the best players play. And it does not help.

For instance, college football got two southern and two regional, Alabama, Georgia, Clemson. It hurt the sport. Michigan and Ohio State's emergence will help the sport overtime. It will bring a big group of – I'm a West Coast guy. I was a Big Ten Pack 12 guy because of the Rose Bowl. So I'm more of a Big Ten guy than an SEC guy, although, I can acknowledge the SEC's great. I think we're going to have a change here in the next five to ten years in sports.

And that is when the regional sports networks went away and Fox let them go. They were out of money an hour later. And those were vital to Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Oakland, Kansas City, Seattle. They were vital. The sport now is basically in the hands of the Dodgers, Steve Cohen, and I mean, I'm not sure the Yankees and the Steinbrenners can compete. Steinbrenners are saying they can't. What you're seeing now in baseball is all the riveting players play for the Dodgers, the Phillies, the Mets, or the Yankees.

And I think we're going to have a renaissance in baseball is that with these regional networks gone, there's not even the, forget the fake appearance. parents that there's parody. There are like four kings at the top. Everything else is a pawn. Nothing else. And you think that's good for the sport? No, no. What I think it's good for is the primary weakness of baseball. It's television ratings. The attendance is fine. It's always dominated the summer. It has died on television. Last year's National League playoffs, it was like New York, L.A., San Diego, and eight of the best 13 players in the sport. and that we always think parody matters.

No, it doesn't. The truth of the matter is, if the Celtics, Chicago Bulls, and the Lakers were great right now, the NBA would be in great shape. Oklahoma City is not good for the league. There is this belief. This is where I always say about Kansas City. Dynasties aren't bad.

Great players on great brands are not bad for the league. I think we're going to have a renaissance. I think the Dodgers, Steve Cohen and the Mets, the Yankees and maybe one other team will not be able to afford the best players. That's it. Philadelphia may be Phillies because their attendance and their merchandising is so strong. I don't know about their TV radio deals locally. I think baseball has something the NBA doesn't. All their fascinating player. I mean, if I told you the six big TV products they have, Otani Judge, Bryce Harper, Mookie Betts.

Yeah, no, it's all Mani Machado, Teteet. They're all in the big, they're all in these big glossy, favorable markets. There's my take is that we're going to have a renaissance that baseball is going to come storming back. It did in the postseason. So I think this year is

the most important year of baseball's had in a very, very long time because of two things. And you kind of alluded to both of them. One is the momentum of last postseason, which is absolutely tremendous and the other is

the general angst and annoyance by the average fan towards the NBA. Yeah. I think that it is incumbent upon baseball to, and I don't have a, listen, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this, so I don't even know exactly what I mean by this, but to

seize this moment, because I agree with you. I mean, we did our show from the World Series. Now, that's, because it was in New York, so it was easy to get to, but also because we were all so into it. It was great. It felt like such a cool event, and it was so lively and active. And it made me remember when I first started, it was shortly after when you first started, it was before I even had a show, we were doing our shows from the NBA finals.

even though they were not in L.A. it was Warriors Cavs every year and we traveled to Cleveland to do our shows because it was such an event that I think baseball, so I was talking

to a mutual friend of ours, I don't think you'll mind me saying this, so I'll just yeah, I'll quote him on it. Our friend Maver and he said that the media is moving towards an event's model

where things have to feel like an event. And it's why even though Mike Tyson's 60 years old and could barely get to the ring, that was huge. It felt, and the NFL, every game feels like an event. You'll have... The college football playoff. It felt big.

UFC feels big. an event. And so that's really, really hard for baseball. So you know what? Because there's so many games. So finding ways, maybe it is via marketing their stars, to pick these benchmarks that are their events of the year or marketing matchups or games. This is where Fox gets credit. They're the one that came up with the London game, the game in the cornfield. So Fox, the Field of Dreams game, 100%. That felt big. That's an event. Like something cool like that

that makes it stand out from the noise of everything else. That's right. Yeah, no, that was Fox. Fox management came and said, you guys need more big events. And they worked, by the way. I watched the London games. They were cool.

It felt special. The Field of Dreams game is cool every year. It's just awesome. It looks cool. It's great. Yeah, no, I think Maverick Carter's right on that. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. but I think you have to, you know, like I, it's easy to root for the Dodgers or the Chiefs.

Like I have the Dodgers on throughout the summer in Los Angeles. Everybody, every other guy that comes to the bat is an all-star. It's like an all-star game. I mean, seriously, you get down to like, Tay Oscar Hernandez is batting fifth, and you're like, Jesus, he just dominated the series in the Bronx. Like, everybody's great. The whole damn team is great. Like, I mean, they've got Tommy Edmund batting eighth.

He was like the NLCS. MVP are like, it's not, it's an all-star team. So unlike the Chiefs, it's easy. One of the greatest radio shows in America, and it has now been on, you'll be more impressed by this than anyone. For 23 years running in the same market is a show called The Church of Laslo. And it's on, it used to be on an alternative rock station. It's now on a regular rock station. Doesn't matter.

Their frequency just changed. But it's been this dude, Laslo. and his buddy slim fast. I was their sports guy for years. And Lasz, I'm going to tell a real, you know, quick tangent,

people like it. Laslo is, to me, he was one of my mentors in radio and just also one of the coolest stories ever. He was from Detroit, uh, alcoholic drug addict,

went to the Navy. I think got kicked out of the Navy because of those two things I just mentioned. I don't, again, I might get a story something wrong. Kind of, was always a mess, always did radio, and then got sober, started this state, and is like a

wild liberal on the radio in Kansas City, Missouri, where when he started his show every single day, he would start his show by saying it has been X amount of days since George W. Bush declared mission accomplished in Iraq, and then went on. And he's on the air to this day, because he's so talented and they're so, I think it's the funniest show in America. So, say all that. So when I first started in radio, they were down the hall. They had actually just come back from Seattle, where they used to be simulcast in Seattle and Kansas City.

And, and Lazzlo said to me, he was like, listen, man, and this wasn't his original theory, but it was the first person I had heard it from. I'm like 24. He's like, you got to know what type of horse you are for this company. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, there's three horses in radio. He's like, there's the money horse, there's the show horse, and there's the workhorse. He's like, and you're going to screw up if you don't know which horse you are.

Like, okay. He's like, the money horse is the guy who's always going to have a job because all the big clients love him. He's like the car dealerships his buddy and this guy. And so he does all the reeds because. because they all love him, he's safe. He's like, the show horse is the guy who they want to be able to put on the billboard the name. We got,

he's like, he's usually like someone who does, you know, a former athlete or does local TV and he feels like a celebrity. He's like, none of the advertisers know who the hell you are and nobody knows your name. He's like, that just leaves the workhorse. He's like, and that's what it sounds like.

You're going to keep your job because you're going to work harder than everybody. Do you need me to pick up that shift? I can do this. I can do that. You're also going to work. You're going to know everything. Like, that's your path, man.

And honest to God, it's one of the most important conversations I've ever had in my career. Because I was like, okay, that's who I'm going to be. And he was telling me this. He's like, you think you're the show horse. You think like you're a big thing. He's like, but you're not. Maybe one day you will be, but you're not. And I was going to say this because Draymond recognized early on, I'm the workhorse.

I've got to do the dirty work. I've got to do all this. But the more interesting part of it is the Shador thing, which is Shador fell in the draft because he thought he was a show horse and teams were looking at him as are you a workhorse? And he thought, I'm Shador Sanders. I'm interviewing you. I've got all these people competing for my services. and they looked at it as

here's Shador Sanders are you going to pick up this mistake we put in the film? Are you going to know the playbook? Are you going to do this? And if you don't know the job you're applying for, how do you nail the interview? And so I think that is like a really, it's a really something I've just carried with me forever.

Like poignant piece of advice, which is it doesn't so much matter how you view yourself. It matters in an employment setting. It matters how your employer or potential employer views you. And are you representing that? Are you, you know, and so that I think was Shador's biggest mistake is he didn't know what job he was interviewing for. And he didn't know who he was to these teams. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called Hage, Jonas, we invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Codenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I

competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side scene. to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of, of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth,

or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Well, and I'll throw something at you. One of the things why we didn't get an honest read, because clearly Pittsburgh never viewed him.

They viewed him as Kenny Pickett. Daniel Jeremiah said that when his intel was that they viewed him, is a little better than Kenny Pickett as a prospect. Well, Kenny Pickett by the two GMs, two of the GMs in the league that I really respect, one of them with a couple trophies viewed Kenny Pickett as a top to middle of the third quarterback, and that's exactly what he is. He's a backup, and an occasional starter if somebody gets hurt, which is his role potentially in Cleveland. I don't think he'll be there long, but that's his current role.

So the reason that Chedure didn't get an honest evaluation is because, Dion Sanders knows so many people in the NFL. And he's worked at many broadcast companies and nobody wanted to be honest. This is what I've always said about bullies. And Dion is not a bully. The downside to being forceful and intimidating and a bully is you actually get lied to by everybody in your life. Because nobody wants confrontation. People don't like it.

Your wife doesn't. Your kids don't. So the big brash bully, the top sales guy, the egomaniac. Bobby Knight in his prime never got an honest opinion because he intimidated people. So you're much better having relationships where you ask questions. You don't always have an opinion where people feel free to criticize you. And that that will give you a more honest appraisal of who you truly are and what you need to accomplish.

Bullies get lied to more than anybody, although they think they're always demanding and getting the truth, the exact opposite is true. They have visions of, they're diluted to a degree because they're always being told, yes, you're right and absolutely in all. So the other group that never gets an honest appraisal are superstars and celebrities. You know, nobody ever, nobody ever told George Clooney in his prime, yeah, you're not really, it's not working for me on this, because he was so big. you didn't want to piss him and his, you know, it's like Leonardo DiCaprio in his prime.

Don't offend him. That won't go well. And so being a superstar. Dion's like a superstar. I mean, he's doing commercials with Nick Sabin and he's a 500 coach of Colorado. That's all you need to know, right? So I think that's what Hurt Shadour is nobody just came out and just said. And by the way, Arch Manning may get a little bit of this too.

is that people are nobody's going to come out and say, I got to be honest. He couldn't beat out Quinn yours. There's a reason. So I, he's, he's okay. That's, well, that's a, that's a, I've just assumed Archmanning is a guaranteed top five pick. But I, so, but that's, but I don't know as much about college football as you. And I'm not even saying that's what you're saying. Here's the other thing, the Shador thing revealed to me. And it's not that I needed it revealed.

I it was it it it shined a light on we have traded as a sports public true insiders for instant transactional gratification we we have valued who is going to have this thing that was going to be announced by the team in 90 minutes in anyway, first over what is actual informational journalism, which is, somebody said this, and again, I wish I could quote them, but I can't. Journalism is publishing or uncovering information that otherwise would not get out there. That's what it is. like I this story would remain hidden or fact or whatever it is. Don Van Nata did a lot of that. Like Seth Wickersham, we know the people who've done it in sports.

Simply being the first to say this player is signing with this team when that player signing with that team was going to become public knowledge no matter what is a different, I'm not saying it's not journalism. It's a different thing. But that is the thing that we, in the general public, seemingly value because that is the thing that people get paid for and get famous for as reporters. The only way to these days do that job really well is to have everyone like you, which is why in modern sports journalism.

Every draft pick is great. Every surgery is ahead of schedule. Every MRI was better than expected. And everything is positive. Every single thing is positive. And so note the fact that none of our insiders said, I've talked to 15 teams and 12 of them don't have Shador in their top 50. Like, nobody had this.

Nobody had, like it was, it went from, is he going to be the first pick to, okay, it'll be Cam Ward, but then, you know, Shador, Giants Browns to, oh shit. he might slide to the Saints. And then by draft day, it was, wow. What does it mean for Aaron Rogers? Because Chador could maybe be there at 21 and they could draft him. Yeah. The entirety of the NFL world, nobody had.

He'll be very fortunate if he is taken with the Browns or Giant second pick. Not one person. and by the way, I'm not, I obviously didn't have it, I'm going to act like I had it, but I'm an insider. And so I found that really telling that, man, what information are we actually getting? Like what, what is the real, real? And are the guys who actually have the real information? Like, well, I know the truth here, but it's not worth it because it'll piss it. the wrong relationships, agents, teams, whatever off. And so I also think that what is so stunning

about this and this last thing I'll say, because I know now we're a month old on it, it is shocking that Dion didn't have the information either. That nobody privately told Dion, hey, hey, that's the downside like a bully of being a beloved superstar. Nobody told Dion, hey, man. Don't get the truth. Like, listen, maybe they're all wrong. But the league has real questions of whether or not your son's a starter. So you got to tell him he's got to blow their socks off in this. Because Dion is whatever anyone thinks of Dion, he's obviously a loving, devoted father. That's undeniable.

And he just didn't have the information. That's right. Think about that. Think of how many friends he has in the NFL and not a single person. I'm telling you, Arch Manning, be very careful. The Mannings are American football royalty. Now, I will say there's a little less, they've got their own egos, but Dion's always been over the top. Sure.

He's been almost at times a wrestling heel. Like he loves to, you know, and the Manning's, you know, with Arch, he's been backing up Quinn Ewers, who he's clearly better than, and they never transferred. I mean, so they've handled it with grace. and I think that's the Manning's brand. But this really does go back to bullies and superstars. You'd think they'd get the inside info. They're lied to more than everybody else. You know who you don't lie to?

Your cranky neighbor, who you don't love, but you're going to tell them, don't mow the grass at 6 o'clock in a Saturday. You're going to give them a real honest, cranky opinion. The people that you don't have anything to lose, like just people that you don't adore. You're always willing to say, bro, that's not going to work. Don't do that. Yeah.

That's hard to say to a Manning or a Dionne Sanders. It's hard. That's really interesting. You know, finally, you got to bless Dallas Cowboy fans' heart. They're so excited for George Pickens, and I was saying this today. When Kyle Shanahan said, I can't make Tray Lance work. I made Matt Shob a pro bowler. Rock Purdy, I got him to a Super Bowl.

Garopolo, I got to a Super Bowl. I can't make Tray Lance work. And the Cowboys were like, ooh, here's a fourth round pick. Okay. When Warren Buffett says, be careful with Bitcoin. I'm careful with Bitcoin.

When Mike Tomlin says about a receiver, listen, I can't make it work. Chase Claypool, A.B. Martavius Bryant. The list goes on. Yelton Johnson. If Mike Tomlin, who is two things, great motivator and incredibly patient with immature players, when Mike says, yeah, guys, I'm out. But Jerry, this is a personality trait.

Jerry loves to save. He loves to give people jobs that need him, Chan Galey, Mike McCarthy, Jason Garrett, Brian Schottenheimer. they feel like Jerry Jerry is saving that he's giving them job that's not available McCarthy couldn't get interviews Parcells and Jimmy Johnson didn't need him

that wore Jimmy out Dak Prescott fourth round he loves hey Tony Romo undrafted Cowboys never draft quarterbacks in the first round they don't need Jerry so when he goes and gets George

Pickens who the reputation is out basically Tomlin I'm out. Jerry's like, I'm here. I'll make it work. I think this is Jerry's wildcatting oil days where he would hunt for gems. And I think that is literally his mindset with coaches and sometimes draft picks and players is that he feels like pickens. He's he's the rest of the league is out. I am in. And I don't. think long term. I think that's why the Cowboys are where the Cowboys are currently in the best of. I think that George Pickens is one of the more overrated players in the

whole league. And the reason I feel that way is because I think certain football fans, this is one of my favorite and kind of relatively newest take, which is talent has become wildly

overrated. And particularly in the NFL. Obviously, you need a requisite level of talent that goes without saying. However, this idea that talent is some cure-all when this guy has been a pain in the ass every step of his football life. It is why he fell on the draft. It is why you were hearing rumors about him being available during his second year. during his third year.

He was traded here. It is the, he, it's, you know, when you are potentially trying to get a contract in the off season, and your team is in the middle of a losing streak, and you show up to the Christmas Day game against the Kansas City Chiefs 90 minutes before kickoff, you show up three hours before your TV show, Colin. You have 220 of them a year. He's got 17 football. games.

And you're just not a serious person and you're not going to contribute to winning the way your talent says you should. And so there's that. There is also the fact that trading a third round pick for a player with one year left on his contract means you probably should give him a contract extension. The only thing worse, in my opinion, than trading a third. third round pick for one year of George Pickens than letting him be a free agent is giving that guy 50 million guaranteed. So the Cowboys put themselves in a position where it's no win. Do we pay this guy

early when he has never, he's never been the top 10 in the NFL of anything. He's like his career numbers are pedestrian. He's never outpaced. His production has never outpaced his targets. And he is, right, he quits on routes, which quarterbacks despise. A million, it gets a million problems there. So you can't pay him. But the other thing you shouldn't do as a smart franchise is keep trading these mid-round picks for rentals.

And so I, two years ago, Colin, the chiefs ended up winning the Super Bowl, but two years ago when the chiefs had nothing but drops everywhere and the receivers couldn't do anything. Pickens was available then. And Wilds and Brew couldn't believe me. I was like, I don't want him. I was like, the chiefs already are on thin ice with Cadarius Tony. Like they, you know, and they got, they got the chiefs trade for Canarias Tony.

They gave up a fifth round pick. He had three years left on his deal. And that's still, listen, he had the amazing part return of the Super Bowl. but he's still ultimately can't get right guys can't get right. And so I, I'm not a Pickens guy. I also think he's a somewhat overrated player. And I also think for, if Mike Tomlin had a hard time keeping him inside the lines, Brian Schottenheimer and his first year as a head coach,

how much of Brian Schottenheimer's time is going to be about Micah's podcast and whatever the hell George Pickens did? A lot of it is the answer to that. Yeah. If a rehab center's like, Yeah, we're out of. We're done. Exactly right.

It's insane. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name? name Hey Jonas, guys.

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen should win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go to Baker Mayfield. I thought you had an interesting... Somebody once in the last year asked Baker Mayfield about me and blah, blah, blah. And he said, well, we're frenemies. And I think Baker knows I like him and respect him.

And he's always been nice to me. He said nice things publicly. You had to take the other day that he's actually... He was over-discussed when he was in Cleveland. He's now under-discussed. Yeah. And it's funny because I think Baker's better than Dak. He's better than Tua.

He's better than Gino. He's better than Aaron. He's better than Russell. He's better than cousins. I think he and Donald are very... very similar, that they can be mistake-prone, but they can plan it and they're real players. He's been really good. Go ahead. Yeah, no, Baker is a prime example. You see this a lot in the NBA, where a guy comes in and just needs the mature Aunt Edwards. In the NFL generally,

maturity's not the issue. It's you either have it or you don't. Baker was the rare, a lot of testosterone, a lot of confidence. And I felt like, can somebody turn the governor down just a little? He was Johnny Mansell, but more likable and with actual talent. He could really throw a football. But I think Baker is the rare NFL player and quarterback. You're like, one of the talents inarguable. He's just got to turn the governor down. Cleveland was not built for Baker.

You go to a great GM, a talented roster in Tampa, which is, by the way, below the radar. It's in the NFC South, which is a low-profile division. Baker now is absolutely under-discussed. is a really good NFL quarterback. I don't think that's disputable. Yeah, I think it's hard to make a top 10 and not include him. And then when you add to the fact that he makes around 60% of what the other guys in that top 10 make, his value is massive. He, for a guy who dealt with injuries during, in this time in Cleveland, he's incredibly durable. His teammates love him. And he now has back to back years of really high productivity.

A playoff quarterback, win the division. Again, 40 touchdowns last year. And so, yeah, I think that there what, because he was talked about so much when he wasn't yet that good, I think people got, I don't know if numb's the right word, but they were just kind of got, over him and now that he is I think really good people are just like okay yeah that's Baker like he's a people I think boxed

him in he's a good story and that is true but he's more than that at this point at this point like do I this is you know a third rail for some do I think he's better than Brock Bertie I do

would I rather have like and so you said Dak Prescott, I think that's close. I think that there is, there are a lot of quarterbacks that, like, I'll give you a great example. Now, this guy's young and we'll see, but he makes a lot of money. I think he's pretty clearly better than Jordan Love. And I think that Jordan Love is discussed like he is, you know what I mean? I have to see a guy.

I have to, it's interesting. So I was really not anti-Jordan Love, but I said for two years. There is more footage of Bigfoot than Jordan Love. They're hiding him for a reason. Then he came out and he was kind of sensational. And I really bought into him. And then it's as if the league defensive coordinators got all this footage and they found holes. And at the end of last year, you're like, oh, people have caught on to him.

This is, now it would be a sophomore slump for anybody else, but he was like in his fourth year. Fifth year. Yeah. And so I want to see him. So now it's like an NBA playoff series. Like you get worked, then you change things, and that there's stages and coaching, you know, adaptations to a playoff series. Yep.

Yeah. So now I've seen Jordan shock the league. Now I've seen people react and he struggles. Now I want to see his next hand with Matt LaFleur. That's why they drafted to meet a receiver in the first round because they're like, listen, he may need a little more help than we think here. But I, so I'm not sure Baker's better. I think Jordan's got a hell of a whip, and he's a really good athlete.

But he's one of the last quarterbacks in this league, Jordan Love. I'm not sure. I know who's bad. I know who's good. I know who's pretty good. Jordan Love is the last. I'm not really sure what he is in the league to me. I'm going to throw another guy that I think this guy's really good, but I'm going to put the not sure, and that's CJ.

I think that I think CJ's really good. still do I. It is, there are some, I think it is hard in the modern NFL to be really good if you hate running. You don't, you know what I mean? And now, like, I'm sure CJ, especially because he's black quarterback, like, was probably, you know, felt pressure, like, to prove to everyone. Like, I'm not, you know what I mean? I'm not a running back with the, that all's playing the position. and I'm a true prototypical pocket passer.

The problem with that is that position, it's not extinct, but it is, the just, the Matt Stafford, Jared Gough, Joe Burrow style is, it's just a hard way to make a living. And it doesn't mean you have to be, you know, one read and then take off and run, but it's a nice pitch to have, particularly come to playoffs. And I thought CJ, in the playoffs last. year actually went to it a little more. And so that was a good sign.

But I just want to see a little more from him. But yeah, I think in general, we usually know who these guys are. And then there are guys who, like, this is the thing that I would say about guys like Darnold or Gino. I don't think, Darnold's a weird one for you, because you always saw this really good player. but I think people that said like those guys were not good, potentially were correct.

And then those guys through hard work and maturation and learning and getting older got good. Like I, you know what I? And so like the, I think that a guy like Gino, I think Gino was probably rightfully of, you know, lower tier backup early. and then worked his ass off, got better, learned more, and became this player. But, yeah, I think most of the quarterbacks we know about who they are.

The one, I'll throw another one at you, that to me is the most confusing or most intriguing, and that's Herbert. Because Herbert, there is no question how talented he is. But five years into your career, you need. more than just he throws an amazing ball. And there's not a lot of quarterbacks who, five years into their, who ended up being amazing,

who five years into their career hadn't accomplished anything. And he's on that list. Yeah. Now, he's first two head coaches, though. Dean Spanos until Harbaugh never paid money for a coach. So his first two coaches were a miss. So I do think he's a rare circumstantially. I think he's a rare, I think the people in the league that I know all love him.

He was also, and the Justin Herbert criticism is fair. He was mechanical. On film, people thought he was mechanical. Tom Telesco, who drafted him, said, we thought he was mechanical. Then I went and watched him in person, and I saw him play the best Iowa, best Wisconsin defense of all time, and went, oh, okay, he's not that mechanical. But he can be sort of a rhythm quarterback where when he gets out of rhythm, you know, I've said this about certain players are, like the Pacers are a rhythm offense.

Halliburton leaves for four and a half minutes, they can't get the rhythm back. Like, it's like, oh, it just doesn't work. Like, Herbert's a rhythm throw. Like, he gets into a rhythm. And if you bang him or he gets sacked or a receiver drops it, he can get out of rhythm. A lot of quarterbacks aren't. They just pick it up. They go.

So I think the criticism of Herbert are fair, but he's 6'5, a 4-2 biology major with a huge arm. He's super smart. He's super athletic. He could run more. He did a little more under hardball. In college, he ran the hell out of the ball when they needed to. Here would be kind of a concern I have that is really just a kernel of a belief I have about sports, which is particularly for the most scrutinized positions.

So best player on an NBA team, quarterback on a football team. The randomness of your first couple times in a big spot casts the longest shadow a matchable over your career. And so I'll use a basketball example than a couple football examples. The fact that Kobe as a teenager, basically, was a champion. and that, listen, Kobe was unbelievable on the second two championships with Shaq. But that first championship with Shaq, he was a role player, and it was peak Shaquille O'Neal. But before he is old enough to drink, he's a champion. No one is ever going to be able to be like, can you win a ring with Kobe Bryant?

And that gave him, in my opinion, the freedom to be like, I'll take every fucking into game shot. No one can ever say anything bad about me, right? And so it had a real impact. I do think, I think Tom Brady is one of the greatest athletes of all time and obviously has the greatest resume of any quarterback ever. I also wonder if they simply hadn't, you know, I won't even do the, the talk rule game. if in that first Super Bowl, Venetariat missed.

Misses the free throws, yeah. Misses the field goal. Or he makes one bad read or whatever it is, and they don't win there. Then does he have, like, the freedom to be him in those moments moving forward? I think that, I think, I think there is a chance that we are talking about Russell Wilson, the way we talk about Terry Bradshaw if he doesn't throw the Malcolm Butler pick

because I think if they would have won that Super Bowl and he really believed like I'm ordained by God to do this that it then led to itself and then go ahead. Well, no, no, and by losing that Super Bowl and throwing that pick, it eroded the chemistry in the locker room and it was never the same off one play.

And I think it eroded for him this feeling of this is meant to be. The flip side to those, to Brady or to Kobe, example is Peyton. So Peyton, early in his career, came up short in a couple big spots, and then it just, the weight got bigger and bigger, and he got that moniker. Even though he's as talented as any football player I've ever seen. So the reason I bring that up is, I worry that that,

For Herbert, he is going to walk into his next playoff game with the weight of the world on his shoulders. He's going to be like, I've been here. I basically played two real and one de facto playoff game. The de facto was the week 18 Chargers, Raiders. Remember that were like a tie. You both go to the playoffs. And the Raiders steal it at the end. We blew a four-score lead to the Jags.

and I threw four picks in my other playoff game. And it's just, it is so, it's so fleeting what that, you know, what those can be. And so that is to me like a real, and something I'm excited to see moving, because you've seen how it's worn on Lamar and you see the freedom Mahomes plays with. Mom's like, nobody can ever call me anything but clutch, and he can play like that. Well, Lamar now is feeling the pressure. You can see Lamar in playoff games as tight. I think eventually the failures of the Chargers and the Spanos family to get the right coach got them to pay $15 million a year for Harbaugh, so he has his kingmaker. And I also think it takes, this is something that people don't really understand this.

I think men, at least in America, tend to worship other men. And we just forget that Michael Jordan for years didn't do shit without Pippin. And at the end, it was pathetic in Washington. But it's six for six, and he's the greatest ever. And he failed at baseball. And Michael got Phil Jackson and Scotty Pippen, and everything changed. He was just kind of a ball hog who couldn't get past Boston. He couldn't get past Detroit.

it didn't get along with a lot of teammates early in Chicago or late in Washington. And even when he was with the Bulls, he was hard in the documentary. Tom Cruise is a great example. So Tom Cruise goes in a high school play. And a year later, he's in the movies. And not long after that, he's in a risky business. And that really defines him. I mean, Rayband sales exploded, you know, from the underwear scene in risky business.

So Tom had absolute talent. But if you go back and look at Tom Cruz, who is as driven, willful, and obsessed about movies as anybody, it wasn't until his last five to six movies where he finally came to terms with, I'm just going to run a lot and do action movies, and they all hit. And his last five to six movies have been massive hits. He did Rock of Ages, Eyes Wide Shut, Vanilla Sky, who some people really like, I've never seen it. he had lots of misses. Marlon Brando had lots of misses. So think how long it took for finally, finally a Bradley Cooper to find the right director or Tom Cruise to find the right vehicle. He was always talented, but like Herbert, he needs his hardball. And that's what I think we tend to forget is that Michael Jordan had Doug Collins and Stan Ulbrick, but no Scotty Pippen, he couldn't

win a playoff series. None of them. So you just, you just need so much help. And that's, you know, when anybody will ever ask me, you know, about, oh, gosh, how do you think you've done it for 30 years? And you've been doing this. And I say, I've had great help. I've had really good bosses. I've had a couple stinkers. But overwhelmingly, I've had really good support and really good agents and really good bosses. I would have been somewhat successful. But the point being is, if you find a great stockbroker or or you i mean obama he has somewhere he's got a kingmaker behind him you know somebody behind him believed in him and we just forget that in sports and that mohomes would have been successful but bret vich and andy reader a big part oh yeah well yeah and that it's also one of

the reasons that i find the i i find it really fun but also frustrating at times when We trying to parse individual credit for team sports success is one of the most fun things about our business. And it's also why a guy you and I see similarly, but is, you know, one of the more polarizing, if you will, quarterbacks is so interesting in party. Because there is, it's so much of, all right, is it, are we, you know, like I argue with Wilds about it. Wilds basically, his take is that I believe when the Niners win, Shanahan won, and when they lose Purdy lost. Like, you know, that the Shanahan gets the credit and doesn't get the blame.

And my actual take is that I think that there is, there are a lot of factors that have gone into why a quarterback who, everyone in the league, including the Niners, thought was not that good, has had, statistically, one of the three or four greatest starts to a career in the history of the sport. I understand there are misses. I get it. I know Brady went 199. I understand all that.

But when people with Purdy, people will say, you would feel differently if he were the number one pick. And my answer is, yes, of course. Of course, he used to be a better player. Right. That's the, right, because that's that. You would, the draft, it's not random. Like, if you were the number one pick, he wouldn't be undersized.

He would have a slightly stronger arm. That's right. He was like, there's real things to it. Tony Romo was undrafted when Bill Parcells found him. So the first four to five years of Tony Romo's roster was great. They didn't pay him anything. He was free. The minute they started paying Tony Romo, the offensive line wasn't as good.

And Tony Romo couldn't win big games. even though Tony Romo is a really good B plus a minus quarterback, but Tony Romo was free. Kurt Warner early in his career, who I think's great, undervalued historically, came into the league, he was free.

There's no question that Brock Purdy's lineup was stamped. Well, and listen, we don't, we've done the Purdy thing before. What is so frustrating to me about the Purdy thing is, and maybe this is why it's an argument I can't get over, is,

and I'm going to make this point, you know, till the end of my career, as long as this is relevant. Four years, folks argued about Jimmy Garoppola. Is he just a winner? Is he underrated? You know, did he make Brady nervous because he was breathing down his neck? And then there were folks like me. He was like, I actually think he's pretty mediocre.

And they'd be like, no. That team was terrible. And then he got there. They went to an NFC championship game. They went to a Super Bowl. And I kept saying, yeah, I really think 25 quarterbacks in the league, if you gave them the defense the Niners had then, that head coach, those weapons, they would be incredibly successful. And it's like, well, that's a hypothetical we'll never know. And then they literally replaced him with the last pick of the drive.

draft had the exact same level of success. And those same people instead of being like, shit, maybe you're right. They're like, that new guy, he's fucking awesome too. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. I'm like, they literally did it. They didn't replace him with a first round pick. They replaced them with the last pick of the draft. And guess what they did?

They went to an NFC championship game like they did it with Jimmy. They then went to a Super Bowl like they did with Jimmy. They lost the Super Bowl to literally the same team. in very similar fashion and you're like, turns out they're both awesome. And then I'm like, hey, by the way,

how's Garoppolo look now that he's gone? Can't play. They're like, oh, well, you know, injuries, I guess.

I'm like, or maybe he's stuck, like, I think Purdy's obviously better than Garopolo. But like, Gropolo was a, is a below average quarterback who looked quite good. I think Purdy's an average quarterback who looks great in the exact same system.

And by the way, Jimmy Gropo never had Christian McCaffrey. And I'm, I just feel myself going crazy on it. And then they paid them $53 million. So what do I know? The volume. Hey guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio.

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman.

Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Keer Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not have to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.