The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bill Polian on Draft QB’s, Rodgers/Packers Tug of War, GM Belichick

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

First, (3:00), Fake Questions, Real Answers, including his favorite part of Derek Carr’s new deal, if the Reds President was right that small market teams don’t have a shot, if he’s as interested in this year’s draft despite a lack of starpower, his advice for the remaining Russell Westbrook die-hards, why the Rams and Dodgers are winning and the Lakers are imploding, and if he was put off by the T’Wolves play-in win celebration. Then, legendary Hall of Famer former Bills and Colts GM  Bill Polian joins Colin to discuss the low wattage starpower in the draft (20:00), if Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis have franchise QB potential (22:00), if the Niners should give Deebo a mega deal (32:00), how  he would have handled the Aaron Rodgers offseason drama (35:00), if post-Brady Belichick needs to modify his rigid style to compete for titles (39:00).  Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herd  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. The Volume. The Colin Coward podcast presented by Fandul Sportsbook, no better place to make every moment more than with Fandul. Basketball, football, they have awesome new and existing user promotions. It's easy to use. safe and secure. You can get your winnings back in two hours. My favorite, the same game parlays. You can bet five or ten bucks in one 150 bucks or more. If you are new, just download the Fandul

Sportsbook app. Get started now. Sign up promo code Colin so they know we and I sent you. The Colin Collin Coward podcast presented by the Fandall Sportsbook. Hi, everybody, and welcome in to the Friday morning podcast. Hall of Fame executive Bill Pollyan. Every time I listen to him, I get smarter. I'm going to throw a lot of questions about the draft and certain key NFL situations. And just the way his mind works is pretty cool. But first fake questions, real answers. There's stuff I want to talk about, but I don't want to wait for you to ask me. Dear Colin, what's the best, most remarkable aspect of Derek Carr's new contract? It's not the money. It's the no trade clause. For really talented people, artists, athletes,

Wall Streeters, tech superstars, it's not about the annual income. There's a sea of money, and they'll always make it. It's the ability to control your future. That's why the great artists have often gone to court to get out of contracts, so they're available to the entire market. Only eight players in the entire national football league have the ability to say, no, I'm not going there. Derek Carr, at the end of this contract in three years,

will have that power. It's not about the money for Derek. Nevada's got no state tax. He's making $35, $40 million a year. he had a net worth of $75 million before the contract. But his ability to say, hey, you can't send me to a crappy team. What he's doing is protecting his legacy. That's the power of what Russell Wilson had.

Russell Wilson had a no trade clause. Aaron Rogers doesn't. It's the brilliance. Russell realized, I'm always going to make money and I'm always going to win games. The only thing that could puncture that is if I'm traded, do a terrible franchise. That's why Seattle didn't get as much back for Russell Wilson as many suspected he was worth. Why? Because Russell gave them a team they had to trade him to Denver. That was his first, second and third choice, therefore limiting the Seahawks. For the average person, take the money. For stars in any industry, seek freedom and the ability to control where you can be sent. or where you can go. Dear Colin,

what do you make of this week the Cincinnati Reds president, Phil Castellini, telling his fans the only way for a team to succeed would be to pick it up and move it somewhere else because of the current baseball economy? Well, first of all, that's a pretty harsh blow to fans,

and the Reds will probably never be moved because the first baseball team ever, I believe, is the Cincinnati Redstock. You can look it up. I think I'm right. They mean something to the history of baseball. But the reality of what he is saying is, you better be patient here, folks, because with the economics of baseball exploding and with Fox Sports regional cable networks now in the hands of another network and not as lucrative, it is harder now than five years ago for small market teams like Seattle, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Cincinnati. people often say, but, but, look at the Tampa Rees. Now, let's talk about the Tampa Reyes. They're a better story than a reality. Now, there's always exceptions to everything,

and they are considering the payroll the best of that seven or eight team group. But since 2008, when they lost to the Phillies in the World Series, they've only been back one time in 14 years. Other than that, they missed the playoffs or get knocked out early. I mean, even when they win games, they get outpaced by the Red Sox and Yankees who have more money. In 2018, they won 90 games. The Red Sox won 108. The Yankees won 100.

Last year, they won 100 regular season games. They lost to the Red Sox in the American League Divisional Series. So that's the great example of the ceiling for what he's talking about. Something that's not talked about. When Fox owned all these regional networks, they really have. helped the smaller market teams. They generated real revenue, Kansas City, Mariners, Pirates, A's. Those got sold off. They're not as lucrative now, and the smaller market teams are privately complaining to baseball they can no longer compete. Dear Colin, the NFL draft doesn't have a lot of

juice this year, does that change your interest level in it? It doesn't. It will change the average fans' interest in it. Their interests, the ratings won't be as high as last year because there aren't star quarterbacks. But I'm interested in the architecture of the football team, the building of it. So the players are mostly irrelevant to me when it comes to the draft. It's almost like the beach. The beach makes me happy. I like to go to the beach. Not every day, not every week, but in the summer I like to go to the beach. I don't have levels of happiness when I'm at the beach.

Newport Beach makes me happier than Huntington Beach, not as happy as Manhattan Beach, not nearly as happy as Malibu. A beach is a beach. I'm always happy. A draft is a draft. I'm always satisfied. I think the more interesting parts of a draft are teams that can manipulate it, teams that can fill holes and gaps.

I'm very interested in the Dallas Cowboys. They have pressing needs on the offensive line, but yet because Amari Cooper left, they have to draft another receiver, don't they? In a more receiver-dependent league. It doesn't really matter who the players are. I've said this before about college sports. Alabama fills at stadium regardless of who the quarterback is.

The key is the coach and coach. college. If the coach is bad and Alabama had five straight losing seasons, the seats are empty. When they're winning and have the right coach, the players become less relevant. Same with Kansas basketball. They always fill their arena. Always. It's about the coach. When they have Roy Williams or Bill Self, they win a bunch of games or sellouts. If they whiffed on a coach and had five straight losing seasons, you'd have empty seats. College sports has been about the brand, It's about the coach. The players are less important.

Not that they don't have the right to transfer. I'm for it. Or name image likeness make money. Professional sports is different. I'm watching for the athlete because they're the best of the best. In college and in the draft, it's the structure of it. It's the brands that pull me in. Dear Colin, what do you say to the Russell Westbrook supporters who still stand by him?

even despite clear erosion and a disaster of season. Listen, there's three types of people. People that get stuff immediately, people that get stuff eventually, and people that never get stuff. Listen, if you still think Trump won the election, keep it to yourself. It's embarrassing.

I mean, I understand if you had questions for a week or two. but at this point, you're Looney Tunes. Like with Westbrook, I immediately thought he was talented, but didn't make players better. There's other people who thought the same thing, and it took time to see that his ball-centric, tunnel vision style was problematic.

If you still are a Westbrook fan and are still defending him, you just don't get it. If you look at the great point guards in the history of basketball, Magic, John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas, Steph Curry. Go down the line. They have two qualities. One, and this is usually the top quality.

They make everybody better they play with through distribution. Or two, they're great shooters, Steve Nash, Steph Curry. Westbrook's neither. If you still are clinging to Westbrook, you're in the third group. You don't get it initially. You didn't get it eventually. and you're just the guy who never gets it, ever. Dear Colin, why are the Dodgers and Rams succeeding

and the Lakers are crumbling? Well, the truth is, market size is mostly irrelevant. I mean, the Jets and the Giants are awful, so are the Knicks. So are the Mets. Look in Chicago. Most of those teams. Underwhelming. When's the last time the Bears truly had their act together?

It feels like the Bulls, have been promising but disappointing at the end of a year for a decade or more. Look at Dallas. Cowboys, Mavericks. Not a lot of titles in the last 20 years. The truth is market size is overrated. The exception is Los Angeles, not because it's a big city, but it's the entertainment capital of North America. And as sports and entertainment are connecting, it's very attractive to professional

athletes who now have production companies, podcast companies, and the like. But even in Los Angeles, the Lakers are crumbling because they're poorly owned and poorly run. And the Rams and Dodgers are succeeding because they're well-owned and smartly run. Market size has been overrated for years because players now can live anywhere and make a fortune. They can live in OKC. They can live in Phoenix. Patrick Mahomes can be in Kansas City. A lot of people in smaller markets fear the money and the power of the big markets. And in baseball, that's somewhat true. But in the NFL, NBA, MLS, and hockey, your owner and your front office and a good coach are going to dictate success.

There's nothing to be afraid of. Dear Colin, what'd you make of the T-wolves? All that celebrating after just winning a play-in game? Listen, I'm not anti-celebration. Okay? But in my life, and I'm now like mid-50s, right, in my life, there has been a general theme from people. The people who love celebrating tend to let it skew things going forward. My takes always been celebrate briefly, grind regularly.

It's a mindset. I've got nothing against celebrating. But I've worked with people my entire career. They get a good ratings book. They make a little money. and they become hangover hairy. Like, there's nothing wrong with celebrating. Johnny Manzelvo, big celebrator.

Cam Newton, big celebrator. Diva wide receivers, big celebrators. It's just not my thing. And I'm not just talking sports. Look in your family. Look with people you've worked with. You should, when you succeed, be happy and reward yourself. But the personalities in my life,

that live for the celebration, over-celebrate, usually the following year, they're not the same employee. The following week, month, they're not the same employee. Like, Cam Newton is the greatest example. Dude, it's a touchdown. Since high school, you've scored hundreds. I don't need a performance. I'm not against it. But the argument can be made, oh, look, Minnesota, they don't win much.

Yeah, maybe part of it is. They don't know how to act when they do. In the NBA playing tournament, there are no sure things. Except one. Bet at least $20 in same game parlays on Fandall's Sportsbook. You'll get an instant bonus, win or lose. $20. That's right. Not only do you get to enjoy the NBA's best duking it out for the right to advance to the playoffs.

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Redline, 1-800-8-9-9-N-Syssey-8-9-N-Tess. Visit 1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brink.

new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of ton-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of

2. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bill Polion was the GM for the Bills during their 90s Super Bowl run. He also built the Colts into a Super Bowl winner, Super Bowl 41.

Work for the Panthers as well. He's one of the smartest personnel people I've ever met. He knows I think that. And he is now joining us on our Colin Coward podcast on a Friday. So it's interesting, Bill. When I look at a draft, it's not more or less interesting to me based on the players. I like the process, the architecture of it. like the construct of an NFL team and building it.

I don't really, the players, it's almost like college sports. You know, when I watch Duke and Mike Shoshowski, the players come and go. It's the arena. It's the coach. It's his system. It's his offense. So this is being called sort of a low wattage, a low star draft in your history of doing all these drafts.

Does this compare to any draft that you recall? You know, that's an interesting question. It could very well have been 2000. I don't think there was a lot of star power in 2000. And star power is really defined as franchise-type quarterbacks. That's really what it's all about. I mean, when you think about all of the rush people that are in this draft, there are guys that are going to play in the league for a long time and be stars.

But the quarterbacks aren't there. And as a result, it doesn't have quite the buzz that it would otherwise. Here's what worries me about Kenny Pickett. His biggest year was his last year. He had a turnover problem in college. I'm not obsessed with hand size, but it was a Jared Goff issue. And he had a problem securing the football. Kenny has a hand size issue.

I think he is big enough, athletic enough, not a huge arm, not a big plus plus arm. But I do worry that by the end of his college career, you know, he's like a 23-year-old, 24-year-old kid playing with a lot of 20-year-olds. And I don't see a lot of it. I see capable. Is that fair? No, I think it's a little unfair because what happened was he got a really good receiver his last year at Pitt. And he connected with that guy. and he got better coaching.

He got a more pro-style approach to the game as opposed to simply pure spread. And so everything fit together for him. So I wouldn't hold the previous years against him. He's growing and developing. And he fulfills virtually every Bill Parcells Axiom, which is one of which is to, is to, play 30 games.

The arm strength is okay. It's not great, but it's okay. And that's all you need, as long as you're accurate and you could process. And it looks as though he processes well. He's athletic enough to make plays with his feet and to move out of the pocket and certainly to move within the pocket.

And he's got, I don't believe that he lacks the it factor. I think he's got it. He led Pitt from behind on a number of occasions this past year. He beat a pretty good North Carolina team in the bowl game. He's got the it factor, I think. So he's going to play, you know, how good will he be? I think any quarterback's only as good as the people around him. I would point you to Alabama's young man last year,

who many of the same people were saying the very same thing about, Who is the most successful rookie quarterback this year? The young man from Alabama. So, you know, I think he'll play and be pretty good. When Josh Allen came in from Wyoming, I had talked to somebody who said he made a mistake evaluating him. He said, I should have taken his greatest moments and consider those more than I did his overall play. because when you watch his NFL career, you see a lot of his greater moments. And those were sensational, but I didn't take into consideration.

He wasn't as refined. Well, he was going to get better coaching in the pros. So when I watch Malik Willis drives the ball, big, trunky, thick athlete, sounds like a good kid. He may not have the most refined tape, but there are moments on it that are, wow. How do you judge him the more raw? prospect? Well, first of all, he's six feet tall and that that's worrisome. Short quarterbacks, you know, Doug Flutie and Drew Brees are the exceptions, not the rule. So that's, that's difficult to begin with. Secondly, the arm strength part of it is, you know, it's good. It's good to have a

strong arm, but that's not what wins in the league. It's processing and the ability to be accurate with the ball. And now he comes in as a guy who essentially does, makes his living with his legs. He does spectacular things. My question is, can he do winning things? And those are two different categories. Right. Two different completely categories.

So I have questions there. I have questions there. Now, his coach, Hugh Fries, to my knowledge, hasn't had any NFL experience, made a statement that I saw, which says he doesn't know what he doesn't know, meaning the young man doesn't yet know what he doesn't know. And that's true of every rookie quarterback. But the other thing you have to keep in mind is that he's making a big jump up and level of competition. Liberty is below the level of the mid-America. This isn't Ben Ruthertsburgh coming in here, you know, who dominated the mid-America. So there's that.

So to me, there are some questions here. And I think but for the rookie salary cap and the 50-year option, I don't think I'd consider him as a first-rounder. But because of the rookie cap and because of the fifth year option, he is probably worth taking a chance on. Because if you hit on him, you got him for four years at a low salary and five years at a reasonable salary. And if you don't hit, if he doesn't do well, then all you've lost is a first round draft choice. And that's not insignificant, but it's not the end of the world. You know, Bill, there's, we see this in all sports.

There's rule changes, cultural changes in basketball about 10 years ago. You could no longer have two players on the floor that couldn't shoot a three. And it changed swiftly. And the GMs that embraced it, Warriors Bob Myers won a lot of titles. A lot of teams did not embrace it. And they suffered the consequences in baseball. There are just realities now about the kind of batters, power batters, power batters, who strike out a lot is not, you know, the Dave Kingmans of my era would not be the liability

they were, right? Today, that player, a lot of home run, some strikeouts. What you don't want is ground balls. In the NFL, because of rule changes and some cultural changes, I'm noticing this for about the last 10 years in California. Kids are very good about trends, music, trends, sports trends. They know them first. The money's at quarterback and wide receiver and the rules now benefit both. You can't hit quarter receivers over the middle. They feel more empowered. Quarterbacks similarly, very protected. In the state of California high school recruiting bill, if you go to the top 100 players in high school next year, 40 are receivers or quarterbacks, almost 50%. And so I look at these wide receiver contracts. And

And I'm like, what in the hell is going on? But then I look at teams like the Bengals who have major issues on the O line, major issues at linebacker. It doesn't matter. They're great at receiver and great at quarterback. I look at the Rams saying, we don't need first round picks. Get the quarterback right. We'll figure everything else out. When I saw Tyreek Hill go for five draft picks, I about fell out of my chair.

But then I think to myself, geez, he's Cooper. cup with speed. You can use them like six different ways. What do you make of this very quickly evolving value and cost of wide receivers? Well, first of all, cost is entirely dependent on what the first guy in the marketplace does, because every other agent is going to jump over that by 500,000 or a million, however high they can go. So, the The first contract that gets signed is out of this world, and now everybody else is chasing that. And what happened, I think, although I share your view of Tyreek, what happened with the chiefs, I think, is that they said, you know, we need three receivers to make this go. Yeah.

We can't have, they haven't won the Super Bowl with just two guys. Excuse me, Kelsey and Tyreek. We need a third guy. And if we have to pay Tyreek this money and Kelsey's approaching the back nine, in fact, he's probably playing 10 as we speak. Yeah. Where does that leave us? And so have they priced themselves out of certain markets?

I think that's probably true. Now, Tyreek Hill doesn't come along every day, or does Devante come along every day, although they're two completely different types of receivers. So my hope is that the market will slow down and only the top guys will get that incredible money. But you and I both know that's not how it works. So you may be in a situation where you find yourself saying, okay, Okay, I can afford digs, but I can't afford two other receivers. I'm going to have to go with rookies in that situation. Now, the good part about that is, as you point out, there are plenty of rookies out there.

Yeah. But that doesn't make for the most outstanding and the most efficient football you can put on the field. You know, it's interesting. The consensus among many in the media was you got to pay. Debo Samuel. And I said a week ago, oh, time out, time out. He plays very physically. He's been hurt multiple times.

Shanahan, Kyle leans into that style of coaching. He loves Kittle. Debo Samuel. I said, I couldn't pay him huge money because then my top two players, Kittle and Debo, are injury prone. Where my primary rival in the division of the Rams, Jalen Ramsey's not injury prone, Aaron Donald's not, Matt Stafford's not, Bobby Wagner's not, Cooper Cups,

not, I got to consider my division. I got to win my division, right? And the Rams stars are never hurt. Well, Garoppolo's hurt a lot. Kittle, Debo Samuel. So my takeaway was, I get the Niners saying, we're going to listen to offers. Is it ever difficult? Bill, you love a player.

He just won your playoff game. He has incredible value. And you're going to get heat by a lot of people for not doing it. What do you do with the Debo, Samuel? Man, oh man, that is the ultimate dilemma for a GM. It's the ultimate dilemma. Yes, because you love the player. The chances are you love them as a person, too. The contribution he makes is unique. The attachment he has to the franchise and to the fans is also strong and unique.

And his personality and style of play, along with the tight end, really says a lot about what that football team is. The backs are interchangeable. They can bring backs off the street literally and play well in that system. But you've got to have that great receiver and you've got to have the great tight end. So how do you make the way? that fit. What do you sacrifice? So when it when it all boils down and we've had this discussion about what his value is, then you say, okay, we know what his value is. It's what DeVante and Tyreek got.

That's what he's going to be asking for. What do we have to sacrifice in order to accommodate that? That's where the dilemma comes in. And so you have to have a system of football on defense. because the offense is where the money is. You just pointed it out. You have to have a system of football on defense where you can feed young players, less expensive players, into the equation.

And the Rams are doing it. They let Reader go, right? He's playing in the same building, but for a different team. Right. Because they are not going to pay linebackers because they got to pay Cooper Cup at some point in time. Right.

So the question is not. do we keep Debo or do we put him out on the market? I don't think he's fungible. The question is, what do we have to give up to accommodate what we're going to pay him? And that's the dilemma. That's the one that keeps you up at night. Quarterbacks mean more than ever. They're more compensated than ever.

They have more power and leverage than ever. And now many are demanding mobility. It's a new time. It's almost a international soccer star feel, NBA superstar feel, not quite there yet. But with the Aaron Rogers situation, I mean, he called out the franchise. He's tried to humiliate the franchise. He's not going to show up to one of his camps, even though they may have young receivers they just drafted. He's not going to show up.

He'll do talk shows, game shows. And I think to myself, boy, I almost wonder if Green Bay would be better with an owner who could get on the phone and bark at him a little bit and say, hey, pal, you know, but they don't have that in Green Bay. the other day Mark Murphy said he doesn't have a three-year contract he's got three one-year contracts and I thought I don't know if he's going to be there for three years I mean where is your line in the sand

on not having leverage with a star being publicly humiliated by a star having him not being accommodating I mean some of this stuff I look at and think man I know he's talented Bill but this is a lot. I mean, you go out and take shots at the organization.

You can do it with no owner, but it's a lot to deal with. I know, like Debo, he's talented, but how would you have handled this? Well, Mark Murphy is not only a very smart guy, but a former player. And so he understands the chemistry of the locker room. He understands what the trigger man does for you. he understands the the the dynamic that that guy brings to the team and you know there you stretch that rubber van as far as you can stretch it in order to win now in Aaron's case what's what's what was shocking to me was he had to know that Devante was leaving he did he had to know it

and yet he still took the money knowing that he was going to be bereft of his number one received. So that tells you, common sense tells you it had to be about the money. That's what it was about, not getting me a team, not let me put my stamp on the offense, not let me bring Tommy Clements is as good as Tommy is. But let me get my contract on here. So there's nothing wrong with that. Every player should do that.

but to do it in a disruptive way is really stretching that rubber band. And now not showing up at minicamp after you've gotten all this money, and the off-season program after you've gotten all this money, that one, you know, even Mark probably has difficulty with that. As mature as he is and as experienced as he is, It's one of the people I respect most in its business. It's got a stick in his craw. And they would in mind.

I mean, owner or no owner, I think I'd sit down and say, listen, we need to get some things straight here. Yeah. You know Bill Belichick, well, competed against him for a long time. I said the other day that, I mean, every NFC team that went to the playoffs had an offensive coach. If you take out the AFC East, which has all defensive coaches, only one division had a coach win that wasn't an offensive coach. And that was Tennessee. And there was an argument to be made that Carson Wentz really messed it up or they would have been a playoff team too in Indianapolis. And that a lot of these older defensive coaches, Pete Carroll's had, his defense is not as effective over the last four years.

Vic Fangio got fired. Mike Zimmer struggled to get along with Kirk Cousins. Washington, Ron Rivera, can't quite get it right. I'm not saying you have to be an offensive coach, but even with Belichick, they let Shaq Mason go, J.C. Jackson go. They have really no exceptional weapons on the perimeter. It's almost a starless franchise. I don't, I'm not doubting Belichick's brilliance.

But he said a few years ago, Bill, he said, I'm only going to coach. the guys I want to coach. I got my money, got my rings. I'm just going to coach the guys I want to coach. And I think to myself, be careful. Sometimes those great players are a pain in the ass. I do look at them and think, boy, Bill, they don't have a lot of speed. They lost their best corner.

They don't have an elite edge rusher. They got a young quarterback. I worry, not worry. I look at it and I think, you know, Greg Popovich, started buying into his own system, let's DeMarre de Rosen go, let's Kauai Leonard go, they're not a very good team anymore.

And he's still a brilliant coach. Do you see with New England, would you be concerned a little as a GM that, you know, when Bill says, I'm only coaching guys I want to coach. Well, Bill, that's not realistic. I'd love to work at a company where everybody's my best friend.

It doesn't work that way. Well, you know, I wouldn't take that literally. I think he's got, I know he's got a broad level of tolerance for different personalities. And as Marbley used to say, don't confuse personality and character. There are two different things. So I don't think Bill's working in a narrow space.

I think what he does want is a team that will be team oriented. He remember Bill Parcell's, his mentor said he never wanted a celebrity quarterback. There was no greater celebrity quarterback than Tom Brady. Right. And then Cam Newton. He went and got Cam Newton. And Cam Newton, yes, of course, who couldn't carry Tom Brady's gym bag as a quarterback, but, you know, was a personality for sure.

So I think he wants people who will buy. into the team logic and the present quarterback is perfect for that. I mean, he's absolutely exhibit A of that. I do agree that the receiver position needs an upgrade in speed. I don't think there's any question about that. The offensive line for years was left to the magic of Dante Scarnacia. Now, Dante's still there as an advisor,

but I think they've been through a couple of offensive line coaches, and it's hard to replicate Dante. He and Howard Mudd were really one of a kind. I mean, you know, two of a kind, exceptional. So Bill now has to worry about that to some degree, which where he didn't have to do that before. So change, you know, there's change. Josh has gone now.

Most people expected that that wouldn't happen, that he would succeed Bill, but he didn't. And so it's a whole new ball game. But Bill Belichick knows how to win football games better than anybody else coaching in the national football. And I lost plenty to them and won some too. you know and it was a fierce rivalry but when i was at esPN along with you and and and doing the color on the radio games i would go out and prepare for the game and then do the game and come back and say he just outcoached the other guy he you know he stole the other guy's wallet

but by a special team you know right the guy is incredible and he knows how to build football teams. The only move that they made that puzzled me was J.C. Jackson. That was the one that puzzled me because they don't have cap problems. And if he's anything, Bill is a brilliant defensive genius and especially one in the defensive back end. So the J.C. Jackson moved puzzled me. But other than that, I don't question what he does. And I think he's still on top of his game. And to your central question, he's got a broad spectrum of people that he wants to coach. He's not into a narrow area. Just picking choir, boys.

That's not. No one does that. And you can't win doing that. He knows that. Finally, all your years of being a general manager, Hall of Fame. What single player that you drafted any round are you. proudest up. Maybe your scout said, Bill, I don't know. Maybe you did extra work. Maybe you out-fock somebody. Give me somebody that you look up and go, you know what? That was a high five day in the room.

Honestly, I'm going to give you Marv leaving his answer. People say to him, are you, if Mark doesn't have any children or any sons, he's got a daughter, a stepdaughter. And people say to him, Are you said that he didn't have a son and his answer was, no, I had close to a thousand sons during my career. And I feel that way about virtually all the guys I drafted. You know, I'm proud of what they've accomplished. Frank Wright turned out to be exactly what we thought he would be, which was a great backup quarterback, a great teammate, a great person, and now a great head coach. but there's so many more you know i i can't i can't pick one it would it would be i just can't you like asking me which of my children do i love best i bet though i bet you love the process of it

i missed the process at this time of you're being involved knowing we're we're sitting here talking about players we don't know 40% of what the player's about i i couldn't wait to speak to the psychologist. I couldn't wait to speak to the college head coach. I couldn't wait to read the scouting reports. The process is just marvelous. It's not a burden at all. There's no pressure. You're making your team better. It's the greatest thing in the world. The psychologist part, did you guys have those way back 70s, 80s, too? Yes. Well, 80s, yes. We were the first, I think, to begin systematized psychological testing in Buffalo. Wow. So you could tell leadership qualities or just talented, everything.

Everything, everything. And now there are any number of purveyors of tests and interview processes and what have you that give you even more information, specific information about processing speed and the ability to absorb and regurgitate knowledge and all those kinds of things that are so important to play in the position. You know, we talk about all the quarterbacks until the cows come home. As I say, we don't know the most important 40%. Do they process? Are they poised?

Can they regurgitate information? Can they handle pressure? You know, intellectual pressure, which is what blitzes and those things are all about. You know, the media, and we shouldn't know, but that's the most important information. Bill is always an absolute pleasure. You got a podcast, don't you? I do. What is it called?

Bill Polly inside football with Bill Polly. There you go. Bill, I love it. I get smarter every time. Thank you, sir. Pleasure, buddy. Always great to be with you. All right.

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