The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast -   Bills Concerns, Payton’s Russ Rebuild, Early Predictions, LIV/PGA Merger Aftermath w/ John Middlekauff

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Colin and 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff discuss if the Bills are still the AFC East favorites, their early surprise predictions for the ‘23 season, if Sean Payton will succeed in his first year with Russell Wilson and the Broncos, if the Niners will trade Trey Lance, and his predictions for the first post LIV/PGA merger major - the U.S. Open at the Los Angeles Country Club, and the fallout amongst the players following the merger.  Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Herd #Volume #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Hi, everybody.

Welcome in. We're going to have a great 40-minute chat with John Middilkoff about some NFL storylines. He's got great stuff on the Steelers, on the 49ers. We talk Russell Wilson and the Denver Broncos and Sean Payton, Buffalo Bills as well. He's also going to talk about the. 123rd U.S. Open at the L.A. Country Club. You know, it is interesting. I've lived in L.A. now for seven, eight years and had visited many times, probably 50 times in my life. You know, it's interesting when you live in Los Angeles, the perception of the state of California and the reality of the

state of California. I drive by the L.A. Country Club about once a week. There's the Riviera Country Club, the Brentwood Country Club, the Bel Air Country Club, the L.A. Country Club, for a city of this size, considering the cost of real estate, there's beautiful, beautiful golf courses everywhere in Los Angeles. San Francisco is a beautiful city as well. I never thought it was a great golf course city. Maybe I'm wrong. But going back to Los Angeles, you know, I, and I understand that in cable, the way to make money is pick aside, very tribal. Go left MSNBC, go right, Fox News. That's why CNN has really struggled, that you can't be middle ground. You got to go crazy town one direction.

You have to go tribal one direction. But I find what I find interesting about the criticisms of Los Angeles. I have kids that live in Redondo Beach, Santa Monica, Silver Lake. I have friends everywhere. Encino, East Los Angeles, Torrance, Palos Verdes. Long Beach, a couple of people, Long Beach on my staff. What Los Angeles and California, the perception outside of Los Angeles in California, is like nothing I've ever seen in my life.

I've never had a single person in eight years that I know that has been robbed, carjacked, a victim of a crime of note. But when I watch the constant haranguing by cable news about, this city. And listen, I know I probably live in a nice neighborhood and Colin, you're out of touch. But lots of people in Los Angeles live in nice neighborhoods. There's a lot of neighborhoods. It's the only city I've ever lived in that has three forecasts on the weather, beach, city, and desert. It's a vast county. I think Los Angeles County, I could be wrong here, has nine, 10 million people. And then, you know, people will talk about, well, there's a lot of people

migrating out of Los Angeles and California. To that, I say, yes, it is the tech epicenter of the world. It's increasingly very expensive. If you don't live out west, you do not know how expensive. San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, even smaller towns, Bend, Oregon, Boise, Idaho. Scottsdale's not a small town. expensive out west. And if you live out east, you know for years there was big money because of Wall Street and New York. But four hours surrounding New York, small towns, tiny towns in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut were also highly affluent. I remember one of the first things I noticed when I moved back east for 10 years, how much money there was in these random small towns in the northeast. It was all driven by Wall Street and hedge funds. You'd go into a tiny rural

town and they'd have these boutiques with $400 women's blouses. I'm like, who's buying this? I'm from Washington State. You go rural and it's overalls. It's farmland. So enjoy the U.S. Open at the beautiful L.A. Country Club. Despite what you hear, it is a, it's a fascinating city. with 31 music venues, eight pro teams, tolerant, wonderful people, a thriving economy. You know, our traffic can be a pain in the ass, but so is Atlanta's, so is D.C.'s, so is San Francisco and Dallas and Philadelphia. I just, I love the U.S. Open. I can't wait to watch.

It's, you know, four or five miles from my house. But maybe I'm being too prickly and defensive for living in Los Angeles. But I also, as many of you know, love Chicago. And Chicago in the south side, you know, unfortunately, there's some violence and there has been for a long, long time. Chicago and Los Angeles are my two favorite cities in the country. I just love the diversity of architecture in Chicago. I love the river, the bridges, the people, the food, the cultures. So enjoy watching the U.S.

Open at the LA Country Club. I am not a member. They would not have me as a member. It's a very esteemed. LA Country Club is known for having business people, no celebrities, no semi-celebrities, judges. It's very old school, but I can't wait to watch it. All right, I'm going to bring in my buddy John Middilkoff,

three and out podcast, former NFL Scout on the Volume Sports Network. also hosts Go Low, our golf podcast, U.S. Open in Los Angeles. Everybody here's fired up. Everybody I know is going except me because I'm doing a podcast. All right, John, I want to start with something. I, in the last 24 hours, I do kind of a pre-camp standings. And we're through the draft coaching, free agency, OTAs. And my only woe was I put Miami

in first and Buffalo and second. And I had two reasons for it. I think Vic Fangio is the most underrated coach assistant in the league. I think he's a great defensive coordinator. Between he and Jalen Ramsey, I think their defense is going to be a handful. Secondly, I like the momentum of Mike McDaniel and Tua. I think they get better and better and better. I watched them out coach Sean McDermott two of the three games last year,

clearly and arguably three of the three games. And also the Stefan Digg story, something's a miss. Five years in, they can't solve the offensive line. They've added more defensive linemen. Ed Oliver got an extension. I'm not anti-defensive coach. Pete Carroll, Tomlin, Belichick, obviously very capable.

What do you make of the Stefan Diggs, a lot of the Instagram stuff? It just, for that stuff to go public, what did you make of it? Well, you know, he's had issues before. You know, he was, he's a winning diva. You know, he won in Minnesota was a very productive player on their good teams, but he was a lot for them and they got rid of them. And they made one of the great trades in recent memory, essentially straight up for a draft pick that turned right into Justin Jefferson, right?

So it was a pretty seamless transition for them. And Diggs has been excellent for the bills. I heard you, I think yesterday or two days ago, kind of on the Sean McDermott experience. And I was thinking about it over the last 24 hours. I think a lot of times, and this works for offensive coaches too, and now Sean's technically the defensive coordinator, your success is very predicated on the other side of the ball,

who you hire. So just look at some of the offensive coaches, right? When did Andy Reid? Obviously, Mahomes was a big element of this. Got rid of, I think Bob Sutton was a defense coordinator Spagnola. Last five years, three super bowl's in their defense has been dramatically better. With often young players. 100%.

Kyle Shanahan, back-to-back, defensive coordinators, become head coaches. They've been awesome. And now he hires Steve Wilkes. Everyone's really high on. Sean McVeigh, excellent defensive coordinators. So you need help on that side of the ball. When were the bills really good? For that three or four-year stretch, Brian Dayball, turns out he's a star.

Maybe Ken Dorsey, I mean, there's going to be a lot of pressure on him because they got a little loosey-goosey last year with Josh Allen, who just is kind of a loosey-goosey player. his talent is just so elite, right? Now, the thing with the team building, and I know you talked about the offensive line with the bills, their GM has a lot of juice, Brandon Bean. You know, and they have invested heavily in the defensive line, which no one really, like, that's a smart thing to do.

But it's like, have they hit on the right guys? I like Von Miller, $55 million for a guy, 33 years old. It was a lot of money. Yes. It was a lot of money. And he was having a really good season last year, but what happened, he got hurt.

You know, older guys, you saw JJ Watt a couple years ago. Again, elite guy champion, it's hard to overpay those guys. John, I didn't like the Vaughn Miller deal. I thought the Rams, much like the Chiefs did with Juju Smith-Schuster, incentive-laden deal comes in hits, Patriots overpay. I thought Vaughn Miller for the Rams was a home run. I think Buffalo overpaid. I think at his age and injury history, it was a mistake.

Yeah, I think when you're giving the, you know, astronomical deals when you're a championship level team, they got to be your guys. When you go shopping in free agency, you pay what, a 20, 30% premium just on the fact that you're bidding against other teams. The prices go up. So I think they regret that one.

But I do think their success, Sean McDerm is proven to be a good defensive coordinator when he was with the Carolina Panthers and Ron Rivera. He knows what he's doing to coach the defense. So let's just say their defense a little bit better. What if their offense? Like, what if Ken Dorsey, I mean,

for every guy, Shanahan and Sean McVey, there are a lot of offensive coordinators that turn out to not be that good. So that would be my biggest concern if I was a Bill's fan. The thing with the dolphins, though, Colin, doesn't the quarterback concern you? I mean, you're cushing away from like missing the season. Well, first of all, Tua's put on about 15 pounds. You can see it in the OTA. Like he got thick.

He did a Jalen Hertz. Lamar did it two years ago. You're like, he's got traps. He's got, he got thick. So Tua's kind of come to terms with you can't, you can't play light at that position. You can't in college. when you have Bama's offensive line. You can't in the NFL.

You got to put pudding on. You got to put weight on. You got to hit the ground too. When shit hits the fan, you can't try to be a hero. He's not big enough or fast enough to do that. So I've said if he plays 15 games, I do think Jalen Ramsey,

Vic Fangio, I think if you look at Shanahan's system with Matt Ryan, it's in year two that a quarterback, it's complicated, that a quarterback really hits. With Shanahan, often, it's been year two.

I think year two, McDaniel and Tua. I think the division's really good. If DeAndre Hopkins signed with New England, I think that's like substantial. But I have the same quarterback worries. I just don't like the way Buffalo's trending. And the other thing is, with Aaron Rogers and the Jets, I know Aaron's going to be fine.

And I think he's using, he's smart. He knows the narrative on Green Bay was, his buddies were the old guys Boktiari and Cobb. He didn't work with young guys. So in New York, he's made a point to put his arms around the young guy. I love these young players.

He's smart. He sees. It's like I've said before when you get divorced and remarried, you're like, what was I really bad at? Okay, I got to get better at dealing with kids. I got to get better with money. Like, you know what you're bad at.

You correct it. He's course corrected on the young guys. But it's still a shaky old line. the wide receiving core. Alan Lazzards, more of a three. Garrett Wilson's young. I don't think they, I think most of their talents

in the defensive front and in corner. So I, if I said to you, so Miami's my woe pick, I think Carolina has a chance to win their division, mostly because it's a bad division. Is there a woe pick for you at this point?

A division that I would go, man, I didn't see that coming. Well, I guess you could see it coming, but everyone's going to pick the Bengals. I do think the Steelers were really coming on at the end of the year last year. We know how well they draft. We know how much talent they have on their team. You know, T.J. Watt, remember, missed a lot of last season.

He's a lot like Nick Bosa, that if he's playing 17 games, he's getting, you know, close to 20 sacks and dominating every game he plays in. Good point. Their culture, you know, their quarterback. I'm not a huge, like, I don't really like those type players because I think their ceilings pretty low. but physically you get to go to a place that's just kind of equipped with a running back, weapons, a defense. He's an older, younger player. I mean, it's not out of the realm possibility. They win 12 or 13 games, right, if they maximize and stay healthy.

And they're in that division, no one's intimidated, especially Baltimore and Pittsburgh by the Cincinnati Bengals, right? Even though the Bengals have been beating them. But they, they will view of healthy that they should win the division. So I'd say the Steelers are a team that I might lean to pick. I'm definitely going to pick to make the playoffs, but to potentially win the north. Well, and the other thing, very much like New England, defensive culture, defensive coach, they get a Mac Jones, a Kenny Pickett, lower ceiling. But if you kind of look at what Belichick, Brady was viewed as a lower ceiling guy.

Yeah. We got better over time. Yep. And so the truth is Belichick doesn't want Lamar Jackson running out of it. his plays. Either to Shanahan, either just, you know,

Tomlin sometimes was frustrated with big Ben's, you know, ad-libbing, kind of refusal to audible in and out of trouble.

And so I kind of look at Kenny Pickin and I'm like, okay, I don't love him. He, his ceiling maybe seven and a half. But, you know, with Tomlin's defense,

with a culture, that can win a division. It really can. Yeah. And listen, I think coaches, you talk to these guys, GMs, every year's a new year. So the momentum, especially when you miss the playoffs, doesn't carry over. But that is an organization whose standard is so high and they're so used to like ending on success will carry over, I think, for a lot of these guys. I think the Saints are another team.

You know, I know you've always been a supporter of Derek and I've known him since Fresno State. I think for the first time in his career, he was really kind of told like essentially you suck. Get out of here. Yeah. You know, like you're not good enough to play here. They've left. He left the building the last couple weeks. That's a team that what's crazy is that the end of the Sean Payton era in New Orleans,

they had a really good defense and they still have a lot of physical pieces. They have a physical team. Yeah. Then Drew's career kind of ends. And obviously they go into this court. They don't have a quarterback. Derek does not have to be Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. If he can just play like the 10th, 11th best quarterback in, you know, the NFL,

They could, especially when you factor in their division, their strength of schedule. Like, why couldn't they win 10-11 games? June is championship month in sports, NHL playoffs, NBA finals. Now, you can watch all this stuff on television, certainly, but there's nothing like live, and there's nothing like being there in person. For last minute, amazing deals on the best tickets to comedy shows, concerts and your favorite sport. Check out Game Time. Download the GameTime app right now. The redeem code is me, Colin, C-O-L-I-N, $20, $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Go out and have some fun this weekend.

Again, download the Game Time app, $20 off your first purchase. The redeem code is C-O-L-I-N. Last minute tickets, lowest prices, guaranteed at game time. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it's interesting. You touched on Sean Payton. I want to dive a little bit into Denver here. So I thought probably more the best guest I've ever had on my show reoccurring is Sean Payton. I did him Mondays 15 times last year.

Sean and I would talk five minutes before he went on, 20 minutes, 25 when he was on, five after. I learned so much, went to dinner a couple times. I learned so much from Sean Payton. I could tell after about four or five meetings with him, there's no way he was going to stay out of the league. He's just, he's so curious. He's such a good storyteller. He's so,

he's just, he's like intellectually twitchy. Like he needs to work, right? He can only golf so much. You've met guys like this. He's too good of a coach to not be coaching. That's right. And he didn't have the burnout yet of a Jimmy Johnson who could have coach for years more,

but Jimmy was burned out. And Sean, unlike Jimmy, maybe, has a good social life. I mean, Sean's going to go rip it up and have a good time. A beautiful young wife. Like Sean gets away from the sport. But I watched Denver and seven of the base eight best offensive lines according to PFF last year were offensive head coaches.

Harbaugh and seven offensive head coaches. They figure out the O line. It wasn't lost on me that he goes out and gets Mike McGlinchie Wright tackle, Ben Powers at Guard. They have Garrett Bowles coming back, who's their best own line. And they do have an interior guard they like on the roster. And so I think we're going to see a significant upgrade on their O line. And Sean told me a couple of times off the air and on with Russell Wilson. He said he's got to go back to leaning into what he does.

And that is basketball on grass. He's got to move. That's what he is. What do you envision? Because I think they're going to take a big leap. do you envision with them? I didn't love the O-Linman signings for the price point, but ultimately McGlinchie is a good example. Like, do you love buying a house at the peak of the market?

Sometimes not ideally, but you need some more to live, right? So do I want to pay $50 million for McGlinchie? No, but who's going to play right tackle? And it's not like he's coming from the worst team in the league. He's been a five-year starter on the 49ers. So it's, listen, maybe I'm too close to the sun. I've seen him, but he's, he has a starts every game for you at a very, very, very critical condition.

I'm with you. I mean, what made Russell Wilson so special, and I've seen him live several times in his heyday, he was just a magician. He kind of had this Steve Young flare, obviously the deep ball, and he looked like a shell of himself. And, you know, I think most of us,

if you're going to be bullish on his comeback, he'd be like, well, Nate Hackett, dysfunction. And then if you were going to be bearish on the situation, be like, well, he's a lot of miles on those tires, right? Run around. You can't play like that for, However, he's probably, him and Aaron Rogers are probably the two most fascinating situations this year for just high level, Hall of Fame level guys in new scenarios. Obviously, Russell's been there a year, but now gets Sean Payton.

No longer he's in charge. I think some of the stuff was overblown. Like Peyton Manning had an office at the facility in Indian Denver. No one cares about that stuff when you're winning. It just gets weird when you're not. Now, Peyton, like Tom, are just better dealing with guys one-on-one. I don't know if that's something you change. I mean, some of the question marks with Russell,

just being a little different. You know, that's not something you usually flip a switch at it, 32, 33 years old. Like, I'm pretty confident. Sean Payne, you talk to people in the NFL that he's viewed as one of the best offensive minds and just schemers of his generation. So offensively, like the scheme, he's going to figure it out. It's just can Russell, is he still the athlete?

And if his athleticism is, let's say, it was once 100% is now 70%, not 88%, That's a big problem for a smaller player who's not ever going to play like a Brady or Manning in the pocket, right? You know, it was interesting. I started thinking why wouldn't Russell run last year? Because it was really abrupt, like intuitive movement. And I did wonder this is that that Russell wanted to be viewed as a pocket passer because he wanted to be viewed as a pocket passer. because he wanted to be viewed as an all-time great.

And Brady was winning Super Bowls. And there was this. And Lamar Jackson was new in the league. Lamar was running around. And I had this thought that Russell watched all of this and thought, I'm not going to be Lamar. I'm not going to be Kyler Murray. I'm not those guys.

I want to establish my guy, myself, as a pocket guy. Because it was almost as if he was stubborn, not moving. If you watch their games, when he moved, he moved the chains. He's not a great pocket passer. Jalen Hertz isn't yet a great pocket passer. Lamar's better than people think. He's not burrow.

And I thought it was almost one of those where Sean Peyton said this to me. He goes, I got to convince Russell. Let's go back to basketball on grass. I think Russell can move. I think Russell made a decision. He did not want to be branded as run around guy because Kyler had come in and was a little quicker. Lamar was faster. Josh Allen was leaping over.

people. And Russell was thinking, I don't want to be the seventh best running quarterback in this league. That was my interpretation. Because when I watched, I'd think, Russell, every time you run in these games, twice a game, you pick up a first town. Run. I know. He's still very elusive.

So sometimes, you know, people have told me this before in my career, sportscasters. Like, lean into what you are. You know, if you're a storyteller, be a storyteller. If you're funny, be funny. If you're a great journalist, lean into it. I think Russell needs to lean back into Russell. So I want to go from there to a team you know very well, the 49ers. I think it's impossible to yank a player that went 8 and O as a starting quarterback.

I don't think. Yeah. So what? It's not happening. So it doesn't, you know, they love the guy. What do you do with Tray Lance? Well, I actually think he can earn a lot of credibility back. And I think he has a little bit in the OTAs.

but this fall if he just beat Sam Darnold out. Like he went from the number three pick in the draft and traded for three first round picks to two years later, not the starting quarterback because Mr. Irrelevant is, and competing with Sam Darnold, who's playing for $3 million to be the backup quarterback. So I do think there's a lot on the line come August, right, in training camp. They have some joint practices, the preseason games.

My take is, though, I just, the 49ers thought that they could have their take and needed to and develop this player. And they realized he needed so much work. And he got hurt that they were just a ready-made machine. It's why they always kind of went back to Jimmy Garoppel. And then when they just, they didn't luck into Barack Purdy because they, he made the team last year at a training camp. Like they, what he did in training camp, Kyle kind of fell in love with.

They really liked them. Now, they didn't think he was in it, end up being a starting quarterback. But through injuries, he, his play through whatever, the end of the season. And then those couple of playoffs games. games before, I guess the Dallas game was hard. I mean, their defense was playing really well. The Eagle game didn't even happen. That he was a more explosive player than Jimmy Garoppel.

And we know the weapons they have, right? And I think now that they have Christian McCaffrey, they just go, we don't need, because I'm not asking you to play like Patrick Mahomes. We run the ball a lot. We throw a lot of quick screens. We throw a lot of wheel routes. We are not bombs away like the Buffalo Bills or the Bengals. That's not the way we play.

So we just need a guy to be very, very accurate. basically in like the 10-yard window past the line of scrimmage, right? And Purdy was awesome at that. Of course he was. He's been a four-year starter at Iowa State. He's a multiple all-big 12 guy. He had a lot of experience, very confident. And it's just an accurate player.

I mean, that's his strength. And that's not Trey's strength. And, you know, the bills several years ago were like, screw it. We're going to figure it out with Josh Allen and learn through it. And they weren't even close to being a Super Bowl contender at the time he started when he got there. That's the opposite. with the 49er. You could argue it would have been an easier landing spot if he just went to a shitty team and just got to screw up on the fly and figure it out. That was, I think the 49ers stopped the opposite.

And then once they got it, they're like, yeah, we can't. And the players last year were kind of grumbling because they're thinking, we can't win 10 games if this guy's not accurate, right? We can't figure it out on the fly. We're 25 to 28 year old guys in our prime ready to roll. And yeah, I mean, if he if he doesn't win the backup job, They do have the three quarterback rule. You know, they change it. Technically, they keep them. But to me, it's not out of the realm possibility that they just maybe trade them at the end of training camp. If Sam Darnold, like, beats him out, right?

Because what's, you can't have a guy $9 million being your third, you know, third quarterback. Can you get a fourth round pick for him? I think it depends how he plays in training camp. Right now, you could not. Now, if he looks good in training camp and Sam's just better, they have a joint practice with the Raiders. I mean, what's Jimmy Garoppolo? They're banking on him being healthy. I mean, he can't, he can't pass a physical in June for the second time in two years.

I mean, that could be a disaster. What if he's good against the Raiders? Mark Davis, Vegas Knights, champion. You can't just be irrelevant in Vegas. They don't have a, and if Jimmy is injured, I mean, that, they'd be, Brian Hoyer, we wouldn't just trade a fourth to just see what you got to take your chances because there's some pressure on just being relevant if you're the Raiders. So I think there would be a couple teams if he shows signs a lot.

If he doesn't, yeah, his value is very, very small because he makes, he's a third overall pick. He makes some cash. Right. I just saw this. There was a rumor the Patriots tried to trade for Rogers and he blocked it. Do you believe that rumor? I would bet Bill sniffed around because he was obviously pretty down on Mac Jones over the last 12 months. The Patriots don't have any offensive weapons.

it's not really an enjoyable place to go once it's not guaranteed you're going to win. I mean, one of the reasons guys were taking pay cuts because you were guaranteed at minimum to go to the AFC championship game. And like an 80% chance you were going to the Super Bowl. So once it's like, well, we might win nine games. Like, yeah, I'm not playing for that. Curmudgeon. You've been on this forever. And listen, I think Bill's an awesome.

I mean, he's an all-time great coach, any sport, any era, any time. but the offensive game last year was an embarrassment to go with Patricia and Joe Judge I mean that situation that's beyond like arrogance or whatever that's just crazy

I mean it was universally like this is insane again not a Mac Jones guy I do understand if I'm Mac Jones like what he's been at Alabama he knows what normal looks like and that ain't normal you know it's I often use sports to guide me through

some of my business stuff And, you know, like I watched Greg Popovich refuse to embrace the three-pointer. I watch Bill Belichick refuse to pivot, unlike Saban, to a more offensive quarterback-friendly team. And it is interesting in the business books that I peruse over the course of a year. I like business I always have, not necessarily a business person, but I enjoy reading about the structure of it, the architecture of businesses and the ascension of a business, especially since I created the volume. And almost to a business, the successful companies that fail,

people don't get dumb. They just get arrogant. And they start believing, John, in the culture, more than talent. You know, Mike Shishchevsky got very precious on the one and done. Remember for years, Duke would not hang your jersey unless you graduated. And then, you know, Mike finally said, all these one and done guys.

They're all beating me. So Mike was like, okay, I'm pivoting. Saban pivoted when he got laying Kiffin on the staff. That program for seven years was built on linebackers, safety's corners. Then they went all in on five star wide receivers and quarterbacks and left tackles. Is that when I look at Bill Belichick, he didn't get dumb. But when you fall in love with your culture, I remember when I started the volume, I talked to an email. I emailed a couple different people, successful business guys.

And almost three people, a woman and two men and very successful people. And they all said the exact same thing separately. I said, give me one piece of sage advice. And they all said, be willing to pivot. Don't fall in love with your ideas or your culture. Whatever works, double down. What doesn't? Get off it immediately.

And when I watch the Patriots, I mean, you're a. former scout, you have people in the building. That's why I think DeAndre Hopkins is sort of an acknowledgement and Juju Smith-Schuster, hey, I got to get this right. Like I effed up last year. That's what D.HOP feels like to me. Well, I think there's some tangible pressure. I mean, there's always been rumors in NFL circles.

Bill doesn't exactly treat the crap family normal like coach ownership hierarchy. You know, maybe an equal or maybe in some instances even above. Yeah. That works when you're going 14 and 2 every year, right, and winning the Super Bowl every other season and winning six and whatever, 17 years and going to 10 AFC championship games. It's a different story when you're struggling to make the seventh wild card, right? And when you do, you lose by 75 points to the bills or you don't make the playoffs.

And you look around and you start making moves like that. I was also thinking about, I wonder, you know, the older, you get, especially some of these coaches or even business people in their 70s, it's probably harder if you kind of lean negative. And Bill can be a little negative. Think about some of the successful guys right now. Andy Reed, mid-sixth, kind of happy, right? Pete Carroll, a little more positive. There's something to just be positive every day. It's a little harder. Because that were several years removed from Tom Brady. A lot of the guys that were around Tom, Edelman, McCordy, they're gone. So these guys don't know what 2016

was like. That doesn't mean anything to a lot of the guys on the Patriots, right? And then you got this coach who just is a hard ass every day driving you through. One thing with Nick Savin,

they're just, there's a churn in college. That's right. And he hasn't had the lows. I mean, his low is like 11 wins losing in the SEC championship game, right, or something.

You know, Bill, last couple years for their standards, there's a, it's like a Grand Canyon wide gap. And I don't think he just, not that he's not an optimistic. Obviously, he knows what he's doing, but he's tough, man,

to be around on a daily basis, the negativity. People handled it because they also don't pay as much in terms of coaches, assistant coaches historically. You know, they try to be cheap with the players historically. And it's like it's one thing when you're winning,

just like in any industry. If you're going to be part of a lot of success and you're eventually going to benefit on the back end, you're like, I can handle this, right? I can handle this grind. But when it's not, working like, what am I doing this for?

You start looking yourself in the mirror, and a lot of people turn on you. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only

deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, I want to pivot U.S. Open in Los Angeles.

John hosts our golf podcast, go-low podcast, cool merch. John is his real passion. He just happens to be great at football. His real passion is golf. And you can tell when you listen to him. So I'm going to lean into you on this. There are certain courses that benefit certain players. So when I think of U.S. Open, I think of the rough is deeper.

This is the American Championship. You're going to have to earn it. Are there players, when you look at the U.S. Open, give me a couple of guys who are built to win an open. Well, Kepka is, I mean, typically it's really, really hard based on Thursday, it was relatively easy. Now, they can trick it up really quick. You know, they can not water greens.

They can. They have the ability to grow grass at rapid rates. I mean, the rough can, you know, change quickly. You saw Ricky Fowler. One thing is, and I haven't played much golf, I haven't played any golf in Florida. There's a huge difference in the way grass your club receives at the highest level. I mean, me, you, the average guy, even if they're shooting in the 70s,

you can't tell. But at the pro level, it's why. California guys typically have success on the California swing. Pebble Beach, Torrey Pines, this today, Ricky Fowler, Zander Shoffley, born and raised in Southern California. Before we hopped on, Phil Mickelson was like 14 holes. He was three under par. California guy still lives out here.

So you're very comfortable with the grass. Now, this isn't your typical where if you're off the fairway, you're dead. They've never played this course before. You see Zillow, the Tori, the spelling mansion is on hole four. It's for sale right now for $155 million. So the monthly payment is close to a million dollars. The monthly taxes are like $120,000. But this is somewhat of a unique venue because they've never been here

and they might never come back. But I think typically it's guys that are smart. There is a kind of like a Belichick or you've got to have strategy. Tiger was the greatest strategist ever. Phil could be a little loosey-goosey. It's why he's never won a U.S. Open and blown it a couple times. I think Kepka, you know, it's weird. He looks like a football player or something, but he's actually a pretty boring golfer.

Hits a lot of fairways, hits a lot of greens, doesn't screw up. It's why he wins these big tournaments. Rory, one of the knocks on him for being one of the most talented guys ever, a little fillish, not always the greatest decisions, you know, the talents there. And I think U.S. opens historically. We'll see how this thing plays out. It usually kills you when you make a bad, one hole can ruin your tournament, right? this you know you're down there right now it looked a little overcast today so the sun's not baking

which maybe actually can lead to softer courses usually when that sun you know bakes hardens out the fairways hardens out the green but these guys these superintendents these people that run these courses now especially at a place like that they will not like these low scores that they're going to want to they're going to want to humble these guys you know 85 bears style the next couple day. So it'll be very fascinating Friday, Saturday, if they try to hit them in the teeth with some curveballs. So the players that didn't defect to the live tour, you know, like Rory McElroy, my take was always that Phil Mickelson complained for years, as did Greg Norman about the treatment of star players. Every other entertainment business, NBA, music, Sony, movie studios,

you take care of your stars. Golf didn't. So, you know, know, it wasn't a shock when Phil bolted to the live tour. If I would have guessed who would have bolted, I would have said, Greg Norman's going to run it, Phil's going to bolt. But for the players that didn't defect going forward, what do you think is reasonable compensation to show up? Because you have to take care of some of these guys, especially now that the PGA scolded golfers that departed and defected and now took the money.

You know, it's weird. A lot of the reaction over the last 10. days has been those guys got screwed. I don't think the top end guys regret making their decision. You know, Roy McElroy, John Rom, Gordon Spee, these guys were worth nine figures. The money at their level, not that it wouldn't have Justin Johnson likes his life, but Dustin Johnson was kind of over it. Kepka didn't play that much beside the majors and care ever. So what I think is going to be fascinating is that it was not sustainable the way it was going, right? it's a little like the NBA.

You know, 10, 15 players, we talk a lot about like the top 10 players. It's really the top three or four that carry the league. In golf, it's always been the top three or four guys in any era that carry the sport. And then you create stars by the next seven to 20 guys when they battle those guys. And if you ever beat them, you become a star. Like Yokic, how did he become a star? Start knocking off the top guys. And now we view him as an equal.

But without his ability to beat those top guys, we wouldn't quite know how to gauge it. So the splintering of golf, which is much more niche than our team sports in America, it was never going to work. And they're going up against an entity with unlimited money. So I have a buddy that works on Wall Street that text me, he's like, you know that the Saudis have like $16 trillion in untapped oil? I mean, their wealth is unlimited. And golf, I think they overextended themselves to try to compete against because they were going to their sponsors who are some of the biggest companies in America asking them to double down. And the guy's like, well, you're not producing double the, why would I give you double the amount I'm already giving you, which is a lot of money? It wasn't adding up.

So the merger. And as you see, Jay Monaghan, I don't know if you saw the headline the last 24 hours, but he took a leave of absence. Probably, I mean, stress, you know, this is something I think that was, there are so many variables on this. But ultimately, I don't know, like, what are you just going to put everyone on salary, which might be, which might happen now that they're no longer in a, I think it's called a 501C for tax benefits, which they're not going to do anymore. And they haven't been able to just put Tiger, Phil, Rory, you know, pay them like, I don't know, Steph or LeBron or Aaron Judge is pay them $35 million a year. And then whatever else you win.

And that's the Saudis had the ability to do. But I also think some of those guys like, the thing with golf, to have a legit tournament, you have to have access to the courses. And the Saudis were never going to have access to any good course because the country clubs were all in a weird way integrated with the money guys and they didn't want they don't need the sotties and then the public courses the pga tour the pebble beaches you go around the country are in business with the pga tour so everyone was kind of incentivized in a weird way i think the great mistake though was you know that and you hammered this and anyone with the brain that the disingenuous moral high horse when

ultimately you kind of know where it's going to end up i mean that's just a terrible look using the nine eleven families as pawns i mean uh the saudi arabia fund has major stakes in Uber and Boeing. So if you've ever taken Uber or ever get in a plane in America, you are helping the Saudis. Are we allies as a government with the Saudi Arabia? Yes, I think they're one of our largest trade partners. The top 30 corporations in America over half are in business.

So I think it was an overreach using the 9-11 families. If you're stating that Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson and Brooks Kepka are heartless, soulless people who don't care about 9-11, then you're also saying Boeing is, Uber is, our government is, can't drink a Diet Coke forever. I mean, all these major corporations do major business in the Middle East. So I can be two things. I can be crestfallen and deeply disturbed about what happened on 9-11.

It is the most jarring thing I've seen in my life that's happened on our soil. It's still, I've been to the site twice. I mean, really incredibly touching. And I can also understand with globalization, they're the richest countries. I get it. So, I mean, the first owner of ESPN was Getty Oil. Okay. So I've worked with a company essentially founded and moneyed, you know, by oil money.

So all I know is this. There's like four golfers in this country, Phil, Brooks, Rory, and Dustin Johnson. if they're competing Sunday, I'm in. And now, I'd theorize if Tiger was in his prime, you maybe don't have to merge. And he's an all-time outlier, you're right, given the sport. I mean, Michael Jordan's more likely to come again than in golf we ever see it. Tiger Woods.

So it's, they, it was not sustainable the model. I mean, depending, I mean, who actually knows the truth. But it's pretty clear. that, you know, some people say they had two. Some people say it was $5 billion the Saudi had put to the side just to fight the PGA Tour legal battle. Obviously, the PGA Tour can't. They couldn't probably hit $300, $400 million to fight. So it was an economic game.

Now, you could be a conspiracy theorist. And ultimately, they just started Liv to try to bleed them out to eventually lead to this. And I think a lot of people theorize that that's kind of the case because Liv that was basically just a pawn. it's crazy. It sounds like, wait, they were just given hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, to them, it's just a line item. That's $100 to me or $1,000 to you, right? It's just their money is not, it's hard to put in the context the amount of money they can throw around and not even think twice. And I think the PGA tour was finding that out very, very quickly. Now, you could, you could push back on Jay Monaghan.

This was kind of lingering for a while. But if someone comes with that tight bankroll, there's honestly not much you can do. Yeah, I don't think the Live group or the PGA, once you go into discovery phase of lawsuits, they don't want to open their books. No one. No one wants that. No. Listen, for years, Scott Borrow said, owners, open your books. Owners are like, no thank you. Baseball owners. John Fisher A's, I'm poverty-stricken. No interest opening his books. You ever seen a National Football League owner open their books? Not in a million years. All right, Golo podcast and three and out. John Middlecalf, John Middlecalf, one of our bedrock guys at the volume.

As always, buddy, enjoy the golf. Great seeing you. Yeah, enjoy that USC Big Ten schedule coming up into your calling. There we go, baby. That's pretty good, doesn't it? Volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL, Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman. Human documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed Human.