The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Bob Ryan on Belichick Arrogance, Post-Brady Boston, 'Winning Time' Beef

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

First, It's Fake Questions, Real Answers (3:00) on why Deebo Samuel deleting the Niners from his social gets an eyeroll, how Adam Silver can fix the problem of the NBA's load management culture, if announcers are really moving the needle, why LeBron should start looking for younger teammates unlike the geriatric Lakers, and if he agrees with the New York Times new restrictive social media policy for journalists.Then longtime Boston Globe sportswriter Bob Ryan and Colin discuss how the culture of healthy NBA scratches differs from the 80's NBA he covered (16:00), his biggest issues with the new HBO 80's Lakers series Winning Time (23:00), when he knew a rookie Larry Bird was a franchise changing player (27:00), if the 80's Celtics are more beloved in Boston than the Patriots dynasty (30:00), the Tampa Bay Tom Brady transformation, (33:00), how Belichick's arrogance has led to the Pats falling off (36:00), how the decline of baseball is noticeable even in Boston (43:00), how the Post-Brady Boston sports landscape has changed (45:00), and if Belichick needs to make the 'Patriot Way' less rigid to get better players (50:00).Make sure to Subscribe and follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Long time, Boston sports writer, Bob Ryan, with all things post-Bradie Patriots, Celtics, baseball, Adam Silver's thoughts on the NBA, a lot of things with the OA's entertaining Bob Ryan. Now it's time for fake questions, real answers. There's stuff I want to talk about, but don't want to wait for you to ask me. Dear Colin, is there a recent trend in sports that you just can't wrap your arms around?

Yes, thanks for asking, and I saw it again this week. We all understand that athletes are physically men, big and strong, but I'm continually reminded that emotionally they're just kids. Debo Samuel, Niners, wide receiver slash running back, slash Mr. Do Everything joined a disturbing trend this week when he pulled off his social media anything to do with the 49ers. Oh, brother, grow up. Listen, I get it if you work for an insurance company and you get fired after 25 years and you race to your social media to take, you know, state farm off your bio. But running to your social media, Debo Samuel, Kyler Murr,

or whoever, because contract negotiations have a brief hiccup, or you don't get exactly what you want is really embarrassing. They're called contract negotiations for a reason. I've been through 12. You don't get everything you want. Dear Colin, NBA commission Adam Silver acknowledged, stars aren't playing enough, but admitted he doesn't know how to.

to fix it. Do you? Yeah, I mean, listen, you shouldn't need to be incentivized to play a game of basketball if you're already making $35 million a year, but since apparently you have to, how about this? You can't qualify for any of the season awards, including all NBA, if you don't play 90% of the games. Remember, players often have bonuses tied to scoring titles. All-NBA awards, all-star appearances. How about you can't get into any of them, even the All-Star game, the three-point shooting contest, any of them, without playing 90% of the games on the schedule in either the first half or the entire season. Listen, it shouldn't take this, but in a league that's always been player-driven, labor-driven, over the first- management driven, we might need to do it.

Dear Colin, announcer Greg Gumbull says he doesn't think fans tune in to games because of a certain announcer is doing it. And he thinks the only thing announcers can do is turn people off a game, not onto it. What's your thoughts? Listen, I don't begrudge any announcer or any American for making as much money as they can. I've said this before. I'll vote liberal or Republican, Democrat, conservative. It doesn't matter to me. But if you demonize wealth, I'm out. I'll never vote for Bernie Sanders. I can't believe, as an American who's done well, I'm one of the biggest problems in America. So I'm not against

anybody making as much as they can an upward mobility. But I look at play-by-play announcers and football, basketball, baseball, analysts like I do Thanksgiving. I'm going to celebrate it whether or not I have the meal catered or grandma makes her lumpy mashed potatoes and dries out the turkey. I'm going to celebrate it either way.

I'll enjoy it more if it's catered or the chef is great or my wife is cooking it. But even if she's not, or it's not catered, or it's not perfect, I'm still going to eat turkey, mashed potatoes, dressing, and enjoy Thanksgiving. Announcers are paid to elevate something we're already going to watch. Now, in the opinion space, it's different. Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow, they take a night off.

30% of their audience evaporates. Opinionists drive a rating. Announcers aren't really part of the rating, but they do enhance an experience in a game or an event. and if they get into a bidding war and they win it and they move to another company and make a fortune, it's America. Good for them. Dear Colin, LeBron said he would like to play with Steph.

What did you make of those comments? Well, one of the things that's interesting is LeBron has never loved playing with young players and I got it for the first 17 years of his career. He's smart. He wants to play with veterans who understand the game. He doesn't want to be a teacher or a mentor on the floor. But he should also understand now that when he was asked who he wanted to play for, he should probably keep an open mind and start pivoting to Trey Young or Janus or Luca.

The truth of the matter is, he bailed on D. Wade because he got old and rickety. He wants to bail on A.D. because he's gotten rickety. Steph breaks down too. LeBron tends to be a historian of the game and often romanticizes it, and there's nothing wrong with that. But he's got to be able to adapt and understand as he misses 20 to 25 games per year, he now has to embrace what Chris Paul has in Oklahoma City and Phoenix, playing with ascending younger, talented players. Chris Paul now only has to play 31, 32 minutes a night. Chris Paul can miss games or a stretch and the sons are okay.

Same with Janus and the Bucks. As LeBron is aged, he can't play 40 minutes, nor can he play more than about 60 games max. Steph Curry is more of his current problem, really talented, often unable to play because he's broken down physically. Here's a list of guys LeBron shouldn't play with. A. D. Kauai. Steph, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving. Here's a list of guys he should. Luca, Janus, Trey Young, anybody under 26 years old. Dear Colin, the New York Times wants its reporter to spend less time on Twitter and more time on journalism. As somebody who's been known to break a story or two, what do you think about this?

Well, I'm so glad you asked. I have had this discussion with multiple people in my business for years. How, as a reporter, can you be viewed as credible and objective when I see you veering off and introducing your political leanings to me a dozen times a day? I saw this at ESPN over the last four or five years, a reluctance by management to put your foot down and say, you're a reporter, report. Listen, I worked in a lot of newsrooms. I've worked at ESPN and Fox.

I can mostly guess the political leanings of the people I've worked with currently or formerly. But I've been shocked by how far left or far right many of those opinions are. Some things you should keep to yourself. It punctures your credibility as a report. reporter. If I know going into any story, you have significant leanings in one way or the other. Opinionists, it's different. Report. Don't support. The New York Times reporters, my hunch would be most are liberal. I don't need to know you're off the rails liberal. far left

zany the world's going to end tomorrow constantly woke neurotic fearful liberal nor do I need to know if you're a conservative on Fox News you're alt-right

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All right, let's start with this. You know, you covered the 80s. Celtics. And, you know, as you well know, the NBA in the 70s had eight different champions, Bob, and it was not as strong. I mean, I can remember vividly the NBA playoffs being, you know, after the 11 o'clock news. I'm old enough to remember that. It's a much more dynamic, vibrant league. Players are doing well. Revenues are great. But Adam Silver did acknowledge this week that he may have to incentivize players to play. a larger percentage of games.

To that, I think there's, you know, I just suggested before I brought you on in the prelude that, you know, awards, honors, scoring titles, all-star appearances could be limited if you don't play 90% of games on the schedule. You just don't allow certain bonuses to kick in for awards, all NBA, all that stuff, all-star appearances. But it's always been a players league, Bob. Is it fair to say that Adam Silver has been soft or so pro-labor that players have taken advantage of him? I hadn't thought about it in those terms.

I have to really think about how we've evolved, how we have evolved into this situation. I hadn't really put the commissioner into the mix here. I'm thinking about the players and how they have viewed their role. For example, it's funny, you're thinking about, I was thinking about this. Okay, let's look at LeBron. It's out of it. He's out of it now. Right.

Okay, the playoffs aren't going to happen. And people were speculating that he might, you know, he still can win the scoring title and it would be a hollow victory. But here's the thing about LeBron if he doesn't play any more games. What about the theory of, you know, the fan who pays money, who has paid money to see, you know, with the anticipation, you bought a ticket months ago. This is the game you got, you know. everybody, it's not always all season ticket holders who are sitting in these stands and home games, right?

Of course not. And so there are people who are going to be disappointed because LeBron's not going to play if he doesn't play. And any, this is true for any player X who doesn't play a healthy scratch, as they say, and hockey. And that's the reason. Just he doesn't want to play for whatever reason is healthy enough to play. What about the paying customer? That's the first thing I would try to address or impress. upon teams and ownerships and coaches and players is that you have an obligation in that sense.

If you're healthy and you're star, you know, you have an obligation to go out there and play. You know, Bob, there's always recency bias. I remember years ago, you know, when a baseball player takes some games off in June and people complain, but I went back and looked at George Brett several years ago. George Brett missed 35 games a year. Now, he was playing on AstroTurf. he played hard, he got dinged up. But this idea that everybody always played 162 games, hey, a lot of guys took games off.

When you go back to the 80s NBA that you covered, do we give the former players too much credit? Were some of them difficult employees? Did they take games off? Were they petty? You know, you see guys now take stuff off their social media if contract negotiations don't go perfectly. We tend to bang on, you know, current athletes. But go back to the 80s. Were some of those guys a pain in the rear?

Didn't. Yeah, there was always a pain in the rear, but it didn't manifest itself in not playing. It wouldn't have entered the mind of the birds and the magics and the Michaels to not play if they were healthy enough to play. That's what you did. I mean, it just wasn't a part of the thought process at all. Of course, there were some guys who were more of pain. And you said taking nights off, I smiled thinking the late Janice Johnson. There'd be a couple of games a year.

There'd be certain games in a year when. And only a home game and only when they knew they were going. It was against the opponent they should beat without any question. DJ would kind of take it easy that night. And I know we grew up to Danny Ains and say, you're going to get the shots tonight. I mean, I heard this from both of them. And you can find those games.

I have my right in this office where I'm sitting. I've got my year-by-year books from the 80s that I kept every night because I noticed that was predated all the statistical information you can get on your fingertips, you know, by picking up your cell phone today. And I had to keep my own books. And I can find you the games where DJ, you know, just took four shots and 15 shots. You know, well, but he never cost them a game, you know. And the flip side of that, you know, he's the guy that Dari Bird famously said, and we iterate. rated best player ever played with, which I'm sure really annoys Kevin McHale. And I believe that, by the way, it does.

And you can see the big, he was the classic big game player. Yeah. And Larry, and to that, Larry said, you knew the DJ, here's how you knew DJ was ready for the game. He went to the basket immediately. And when DJ went to the basket hard early, he knew it was a signal, okay, boys, you know, I'm here. Let's go. Have you watched, by the way, HBO special on the Lakers, the Jeff Pearlman book, Winning Time? Have you seen any of that yet?

I have watched episodes one and two, and I plan to keep doing it despite my better judgment. I will need a barf bucket before it's over. It is, okay, it's a dramatization. Yes. It doesn't make it pre-secrette a secret about the fact that it's a dramatization based on a book. Based on a book. I think the only thing that is true that they based it on was that it's about the Laskers, about everything else is fantasy. I just fear that too many gullible people might actually think these things happened or that these people are like this.

If I were Jerry West, I would say call my lawyer, she or this is my lawyer. I cannot, I don't know what Jerry West ever did to Adam McKay to be portrayed in such an unflattering light. an unrealistic light, a just embarrassing light, and that's just for openers, Con. The Red Arabac portrayals, preposterous. I hear what they've done to Larry is preposterous. It's disgusting, the awful, and the world didn't need this. I'm sorry.

But I got to keep watching because people talk about it. I do a podcast. I got to talk about it. And it's outrageous. It's horrible. Well, West and Arbock are made to look really bad early. Kareem is so prickly, which, by the way, Kareem is legendary prickly. He takes the beating in episodes three, four, and five.

Wes Arbock was playfully arrogant. They have him as mean-spirited in Adam McKay's version. What was Red really like? Red was a interesting man who, he was a very, very bright man who, who chose to make his living in basketball, who I think had a born leadership qualities that would have made him a successful businessman, a CEO of some kind. He was a leader. And then he was a visionary in his game. You know, first of all, you have to go, just go all the way back to the manipulations that took place to get Bill Russell. on the team. I mean, it seems so self-evident after 11 championship in 13 years that Russell

was the best player around. But it wasn't so self-evident to the world unless he never would have gotten to Boston as the third pick in, you know, who had third pick in 1956. And Redd saw that he was the answer to his dreams about a guy to get the ball off the boards, trigger his fast break, and saw in him the defensive ability that we had never seen it before. Bill Russell changed the concept. He didn't invent a block shot. He perfected it. And he made it. And he made a it a part of the game in a way that it had not been before and an intimidation of shots and so forth that it starts to Bill Russell. It's it. It's Genesis in the game of basketball. It starts with Bill Russell. Anyway, not everybody saw that. If the Hawks knew that, you know,

they wouldn't have done what they did, although there was a voracious element to that too. And if the, and how about number two, how about how they got him from the Rochester Royals by Walter Brown, the owner of the Celtics, promising Lester, making the deal with Hester Harrison, the owner of the Rochester Royals, that he would give, and Walter Brown owned the ice capades, that he would give him ice capade states in exchange for getting the number two pick in the draft. And that's how they got the number two pick in the draft. And that, and they moved, they got number three, and they took Russell of three. I mean, really. No, but Red, but I could give you examples of Red's sense of humor and Reds and Red's, you know, can be

say impish nature at well, but Red was ahead of the game and smarter than everybody else. You were in the belly of those Lakers 80s that decade, which is to me the peak of the the NBA. Even though it was an early peak, it was as good as the NBA was. You had six or seven really good teams and two great ones, the Lakers and the Celtics. It's almost a cliche now to say that Larry Bird is underrated historically because there's just there's, you know, Larry was a different player, but I went and looked at some Larry Bird articles a couple years ago. Jack McCallum may have written him. And he was, I went back to Sports Illustrated. I would just had time to waste on these archival articles. And the way he described him is how we described LeBron. He was like, there's never been a forward. like this. If you never, you wouldn't know they weren't written today about LeBron James.

Take people back to the beginning of that rivalry and the emergence of bird as a superstar. Was it was it day one, week one? Did everybody in Boston know? It didn't take long. His, you know, I mean, I was rare in the Boston meet. I had actually seen him in college in person the year before. At the end of his junior year, I was covering the NCAA tournament first round game between Providence and Michigan State in Indianapolis on a Saturday afternoon. The night before Indiana State was playing Illinois State in an NIT game in Terre Haute.

So I got, I drove out there with Jason Stark and Mike Madden, they were then both working for the Providence Journal. and we went to the game and watched Bird. And the first time I saw Larry Bird make a play, they shot and missed the Illinois State did. Larry got a rebound. And he dribbled up the left-hand side of the court. And as he approached mid-court, he off the dribble, he threw a bullet pass underhand,

a seed about a 35-foot-40s to a streaking Carl Knicks for a layup. That's the first time I ever saw him touch the ball. I went, oh my God. And he winds up making the game-winning basket. And I was dazzled by bird. So I was able to preach the gospel a little bit, you know, when they drafted him about what we were getting. Now, of course, he had that wonderful senior year.

We all know that. And it was coming out of the famous Final Four and all that. But, okay, so now I get to the NBA. He makes a debut in New York and an exhibition doubleheader against the 76ers. So his first opponent of statute he plays is Dr. Jay. He holds us on very well there. And when the season started, you know, we knew we had something pretty special. He didn't put a dazzling night numbers the first night.

They beat the rockets on the opening night. More distinguished was the fact that that was the first year of the three-point shot. And Chris Ford actually had the first three-point shot technically in the history of the game because their game started earlier than the other games. And that's true. He can truthfully say until he hit the first three-point shot ever. Anyway, it didn't take long. We knew we had something very, very special here.

And, you know, the whole package, the points to rebounds, but above all the passing. And we knew. And, you know, he winds up, he gets the rookie at a year award over Magic. And, you know, Magic had the last laugh because he got the, you know, he got the championship that year. But it was evident very clear. He was first team all league as a rookie. I mean, come on. Everybody recognized it pretty quickly.

You know, Bob, of all the great dynasties and the great. lore of Boston sports. As an outsider, the Celtics in the bird years feel as or more popular than Belichick's Patriots and any Red Sox team. They really do to me. I don't know why that is. Am I wrong?

I would say it's close. I mean, I'd love to tip the rubber stamp on it because I'm a baseball, basketball guy before I'm a football guy. But the Patriots are pretty big. Brady, it's hard to top. I mean, I just, I don't know. In fact, I had to admit a number of years ago that on the Boston mythical Rushmore, I had to bump Larry for Brady.

And this is how good our Rushmore is. If you got Bill Russell, Ted Williams, Bobby Orr as unquestioned, then, you know, Larry was my other. But Brady, I had to say, I got to be in all honesty, you know, I got to bump Larry. That's how great the Boston Rushmore is. Okay. that it was special. I remember early on in the first, maybe the second year, one night, the jazz came in at a point when they were at their Nader. They were terrible. At one point,

the Celtics beat them over for 20 straight times. And they sold the building out. And this was early in the season. That was a revelation. You know, you have to understand what they were doing before Larry Bird came. They were averaging, like, they were lucky to average. I don't know, they didn't average 10,000 a night, I don't think. And suddenly they sold the building out for an early season game against Utah. So, my God, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's where we came from.

And then, of course, they went to a point where they're selling out every game. But that was a gradual evolution. Now, and Larry, Larry was the direct, you know, the team didn't just improve a little bit. Consider this. Darry gets the preponderance of the credit for the running from 29 to 61, you know, games. But they get a real coach and Bill Fitch.

They sign ML Carr from the Fistons, who was a very important player for them. Gerald Henderson was a very nice addition. this extra extra draft trick. And tiny Archibald got healthy after a couple of years siege. He had gotten, he heard his Achilles, he got stepped on by Tom Borwickle. Imagine that. And he

got healthy. And so all those things came together and Bird was still the most important thing. But don't have the rest to make the value of having Bill Fitcher and tying everything together for them. Bob, let's pivot to Brady as you bring him up. there are those who are saying in the Boston media,

they subscribe to the theory that Tom is a little bit of a sellout. You know, the new Tom is, you know, a little into social media, a little goofy, is not paying respect, you know, to sort of his historic relevance and, and his greater half, which is the New England half. I've argued this, that he suppressed a lot of his personality in New England for the betterment of the organization. And this is really who Tom is. Tom's kind of funny. Tom is wildly competitive. He just bumped Brouserians to a job. He never wanted a cubicle upstairs. He's a lot more cutthroat than we think. You know, hyper vigilant and willful. That's who he is. But Tom also, especially early in New England, suppressed it because he realized very quickly, this is a great owner. And this is the best coach in the history. of football and my defenses are remarkable. Which is the truth? Is this the real Tom? Is the other guy the real Tom? What do you make of his transformation in Tampa? Well, it's interesting. He left the ranks of the normal human

being a long time ago when he just completely went off the rails with this regimen of his and the whole TB12 thing and claiming that, you know, you could, you could wheel your way away from concussions and, you know, come on, Tom, let's get, you know, real here. That, that surfaced. And But you're right. Some of this other stuff came out after he got away from Bill. And now we find, you know, if you read the two books that are out, the Dynasty by Jeff Benedict and the Better to Be Feared book. And it's pretty evident that he was happy to get away from Bill after all these years.

He had enough winning with Bill and he had enough of Bill's methodology. And he wanted to get away from Bill. I think it's pretty evident for that. But you're right, there probably wasn't more of a, I won't say carefree, but mirthful personality than he was ever allowed to, what chose to display in Boston. So I think you're probably on the right track with that. You know, Pete Carroll has a lot of power when Paul Allen died and the Seahawk drafts have gotten progressively worse, the more power Pete Carroll had. Belichick historically is a terrible drafter, the more power he had, especially of skill people. last year he had his best draft than a decade, arguably, because it was documented that he sort of relinquished some of his power.

Bill will always be as smart as any coach I've ever seen. But the league is now, Bob, as you see clearly, moving in a different direction. The middle of the field is now the offenses. You can't hit quarterbacks or wide receivers. The NFC, every playoff team had an offensive coach. If you eliminate the AFC East that had only defensive coaches, seven of eight remaining divisions were won. by an offensive coach. McVeigh's, Zach Taylor's,

the young coaches, McVeigh's tree, they're all working. Belichick's defensive tree, many aren't working. Is it reasonable to say as brilliant as Bill is that between drafting

and the cultural changes, Bill is starting, I mean, he's going to be his own coordinator now offensively, according to reports. Bill's starting, not Jurassic, but feeling a tad, a tad outdated. There are cultural changes. Greg Popovich faced this.

It's more, you know, letting Kauai go in petty fashion. They've never really recovered from that. Do you think it's fair to say, I see Bill and I think, not that he's Bobby Knight, right, who refused to embrace the one and done. but he feels C.J. Jackson or J.C. Jackson. Bill, he's arguably your best player, Shaq Mason, arguably your best offensive lineman. He's starting to feel a little outdated, Bob. There is a clear sense of arrogance that has manifested itself here that he thinks he can do it the way he did it. And he, you mentioned that he just lost his offensive coordinator.

and we don't know how that's going to, you know, evolve this year. He's infested to have a lot of faith in the Matt Patricia to his chair. He's his number one lieutenant now. And back maybe where he belongs, because he certainly wasn't a success as a head guy. You're right, the coaching tree of his is pretty undistinguished. I mean, including McDaniel's first foray, you know, when he flopped in Denver. no, there's an arrogance there.

And believe me, people are watching all these major things happen around the league and in the division and starting in Buffalo. You know, where now they have the kid. You'll have the guy for a damn near 20 years. They have the guy now. Think about this. I mean, I know you know this,

but for people to think about this. A stunning thing. And you wonder if it was anybody else, but would have gotten any more... Buffalo, they played Buffalo twice in the end and they never punted. They never forced Buffalo off the field. Not once.

Not once. Not once in 120 minutes of football. Did they force Buffalo off the field? I mean, that was chill. It's stunning. So, no, you're right. There's an arrogance there. And you know what the famous Lord acting quote is?

Power corrupts, absolutely. So if he hangs around long enough, now he's going to be 70, his next birthday. And that's a decision, Bob Kraft, is what's what's what's bob craft seeing what's he thinking bob craft has been able to function for all these years in bill i trust you know very you know let bill do what he wants bill runs everything the way bill wants to run it fine bill can be an ass after a game and you know and that's fine you know embarrass your organization that's fine you know we'll get the benefit in the

end but maybe the benefit you know benefits aren't going to be so good from now but i think that i'd love to know what bob craft you know how close your attention is he really paying to all this well he said at the owner meetings that right i yeah the about But I'm tired of three years. Yeah, okay, fine. But what does that mean? All right. So how are you going to affect this?

Or affect this? I don't know. You're right. He did say that. So clearly publicly he says that. But what's meanwhile, you know, what's he saying behind closed doors? I love to know. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green show.

I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope, also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Gorgeous Gaming, stunning streams, unbelievable bandwidth. It's another Lifestyles of Gagillionaires. Meet the AT&T fiber customers winning at life with hyper gig speeds.

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Visit ATD.com slash hypergift for details. You can really, you understand the temperature of not only the room in Boston, but you have certainly a holistic understanding of sports nationally. I mean, look at the media world that's changed since you started. Barstool sports emanated from Boston, Bill Simmons. I mean, those podcast networks. Yeah, I mean, everything has changed. It's fascinating because you said you're a baseball guy.

And my first, I went to college and my dream was to be Vin Scully. And so, and even though the Mariners were awful, my dream was always to be a baseball announcer. And then the truth was, there were very few openings at the major league level. And announcers' kids were getting the jobs. And my dad was a local optometrist. Boston is one of the two or three or four great American baseball cities, New York, Boston, St. Louis, Detroit. Because of analytics, Bob, I think analytics have helped football. There's less punting.

The game is faster, more offensive. Analytics in baseball, it's strikeouts or home runs. There's fewer hits, fewer base runners. Now, you're a baseball guy. But do you sense even in Boston, it's a harder sell to young people, and it's a harder sell unless the team's really good. No question. And if baseball, oh, sure.

And if baseball doesn't ink, baseball ink does MLB doesn't recognize this. But I think they are getting the message now. They're, you know, the shift is going to be interesting. They haven't addressed that directly now, but apparently they're thinking about actually, you know, mandating, you know, positioning other players in the next year. Oh, the three outcome baseball is everybody talks about it now. You have to be aware of it. And it's not with one.

And the pitching that the, the, the third man around, third time around the rotation, you know, starting pitchers going five innings max now. It's not the same game. And I think it's had people are recognizing that. But the old young people thing, this has been going on, you know, for years of the idea of the. And yet I look at the ballpark. When you go to the game, you know, you do see, you know, people bring your kids. There's still a lot of young people. And even out of and young 20-something.

you know, who obviously they're the ones that are going to take in themselves. They're spending the money. They're still coming to the ballpark here and raised, but again, look at what's happening in the state of Florida. You know, I mean, those two franchises are woeful. I mean, I don't know, you know, if it's just because of the wherever reason, but I can't relate to this, you know. Yeah, I mean, look at the coverage of Boston media in the Boston Globe,

the Boston Herald, the local TV stations, the hub, if you went WEEEI, if you went to all, you know, aggregate all the media coverage in Boston, how much is Patriots, how much Celtics, how much Red Sox? Well, it used to be in the old days, I used to, it was true 20 years ago, and maybe even up to 10 years ago, well, that you could write, but you could have, you had obligation almost to write something about baseball 365 days a year in the Boston paper. And now that's flipped. it's the Patriots. They're the currency. They're one. It's one in Boston, the Red Sox are two, and not even 1A, which I, it's, and it's because of the Patriots now, how this is going to

manifest itself. If the Patriots slide, you know, in 2022 and the Red Sox have a good season, at least equivalent of the one they had last year when I made a good run at it, I could flip back. But they're one and two. And then the other two depends now on, on who's, better, you know, right now. But they're close to. Still Hockey Town at heart, I still think, in a winter. I really believe that. You know, we had to run in the Bird Era, but after the bird era ended, it receded somewhat. And the Bruins, if they have a good season, the Bruins still command a lot of attention. It is an amazing sports town in that regard. I'm so glad I wound up here, went to college here, and that's where I went up working. It's been an incredible place to

work. And we've been, you know, of course, in the 21st century, it's been our golden era. Nobody's been had more championships and more parades than Boston. Other L.A.'s closing in. Yeah. They get to count. They shouldn't count any. I'm going to want go on record. That is a separate market. But anyway. Yeah. L.A. is having a renaissance. You know, Lincoln Riley here for USC. The Clippers, the Dodgers, and the Rams have really, really strong front offices, even the Chargers now, draft really, really well. You know, I've said this. I've never seen anything like it.

I live in Los Angeles. Bob, we just got Bobby Wagner. If you listed the 20, and I won't even count the Angels, I won't count Mike Trout. I won't count him. If you took the biggest, the 20 biggest athletes in L.A. County, I think Paul George, a six or seven-time All-Star would be 20th. He's probably number two in most markets, maybe three. If I said today, who are the three or four biggest athletes in Boston?

Who are they? Well, with you know who gone, there's no one Patriot that stands out. There isn't. You know, I'll tell you what. The first thing that comes to mind is Patrice Spursier-on, maybe in hockey. Zanyar Bogart, Daniel Bogart's, he is the best best best

best part of the Red Sox player. Yeah. And he's a very personable person. Jason Tatum. Jason Tatum is certainly, you know, very popular, I would say.

And it's funny because I mentioned the Patriots as an entity or it's still the number one team, but I can't identify who is the number one, you know, the personality or player that you think of

when you think of the Patriots any longer at all. You know, you know, Devin McCordy, you know, was an elder statesman, Matthew Slater. They're wonderful guys, you know, but their position. One's a career, you know, Slater is a special teams guy. And McCordy's a defensive back. You know, those don't.

But so I'd have to say among some Bogart's, Bergeron, Tatum, those are the three names that jumped out of me. Belichick had said years ago, and this is something I think Robert Kraft has to look at. Belichick said years ago, maybe six or seven years ago, he was only going to acquire draft or trade for players he wanted to coach. It's like, okay, be very careful. Okay. Some of the great players, you may not love coaching. I heard one of the reasons that they let J.C. Jackson walk is because they didn't think if they franchise tagged him, they thought he would be difficult.

And I think to myself, Bill, sometimes great players are difficult. This is the interesting thing with Belichick. When he said that, they had Brady and they were winning. But this is where this is the Greg Popovich connection here, is that not everybody is going to buy into your culture, but sometimes you need a great pass rusher and you need a great wide receiver because, and that's where I am a little fearful that Belichick he's got his legacy he's got his net worth

Bob he doesn't too much power he won't let go because he loves every aspect of his job he loves it all like he's in glory he's in his glory calling right now he loves preparing for the draft he loves it he loves everything about coaching

he likes OTAs he likes training camp he likes Sundays you know Monday nights he likes to But the only thing he doesn't like, and even this is misunderstood, is the dealing with the media. He can manipulate it the way he wants. He gets better and better as the week goes on. That's a whole other story. You know, the Pelagic that you see on Sunday after a game or Monday night after a game is not the same Belichick you get on Friday when he's relaxed and has opened a discussion about a lot of things.

The man loves football. I would dare say no coach in the history of the league has had more football empirical knowledge stored in this head, which includes history than anybody. He's the number one football person that's ever coached in the NFL in terms of empirical knowledge about football. I say he knows more about Paul Brown than Mike Brown does.

I mean, and that's not a slain, not just a joke, you know, that's a throwaway line, but that's the point. But the point is he loves it all, and he has a, there's no sign he loves it any less. Now, as he approaches 70,

then he did 5, 10, or 15 years ago or when he was win. So he's going to be hard to let the dislodge. I think your inference is, is completely accurate. But now, this is where Bob Kraft comes in. Can Bob Kraft, you know, how does he handle this? You know, and that's going to be very, very interesting.

By the way, I want to just back up to the prior discussion just to make a point that you're talking about who's the most popular athlete in Boston right now. Since 1925, when Eddie Schur showed up, and not including World War II when people were in the Army, although we had people, great players serving their country, both the USA on Canada. The city of Boston, the sports teams, has never since I've been without at least one drop dead first ballot Hall of Famer in one of the major sports. We have had a complete continuum since 1925 because who is it now? Well, it's Bergeron. He's the drop-dead hockey one. We're down to one. But it's an incredible run. Now, I'm not saying no other city can make

that statement. I bet New York would make a run. But I doubt that it. I'm more. on the bet that categorically that no other city can make that statement as a columnist sometimes as a talk show host i am a prisoner of topics i know will resonate with the audience i can't talk about what i want to talk about i like college football much more than it will reward me in my radio or tv ratings has there ever been some it could be fencing is there ever been anything bob that you have great passion for, but you just can't write columns on because your plate's full, your audience doesn't care. I am a college, my two foundations sports with baseball and college basketball.

And, you know, that's when I grew up in the 50s. And I was, my father worked at Villanova when I was very little and assistant athletic director. I was introduced to the Big Five before it was even codified as the Big Five. Plus just as 1952. And baseball, I was privileged to be able to go to Connie Mack Stadium, Polargrounds, because my father's professional baseball connections. Okay. I love college basketball.

There are times when I was never prevented from writing it, but this city doesn't embrace it the way I would love it, wish it would. Never has. It still has, it never has. And that frustrates me a little. So sometimes, but no editor ever prevented me from writing a column about it if I wanted to write about it. But I just knew I was, it was not, you know, as wide reaching as,

some other topics would be. No, I've been fortunate. This is such a vibrant sports market. I don't have any esoteric, you know, love of an odd sport or anything that would, you know, in fact, there's one sport. There's only one, really, there's only one sport that I don't dislike it. I don't hate it. I just don't feel for it. It doesn't appeal to me. The aesthetics of it, I think, are done. And that's lacrosse. And I can't get, I just can't warm up to the I that that that that motion you know that drives me crazy now and because it's you know it's a big deal and I live in a town where it's it's a planet baseball and you see kids having catch with lacrosse ball rather than a baseball made it and it's it drives me crazy were you ever finally as a great american sports writer were you ever jealous of another writer that he and I'm not talking Hemingway or dickens I'm talking about a sports writer in America that you would have would read, you know, a Frank DeFord, maybe weekly column ago. Yeah.

I never jealous. I mean, you mentioned my idol. I want to, when I was 20 years old, say, well, Bob, what do you want out of life? I want to be the next Frank DeFord. And I thought that was my, that was my goal was to be, go to Sports Illustrated, write for Frank to Ford. I never did work for Sports Illustrated. I had a couple of discussions early, early on about entry-level jobs, but I didn't do

it. I already had a good job at the globe. But I wanted to be Frank DeFord. I admire Frank DeFord immensely. Oh, no, there's people, you know, but he was, he was my absolute, the other guy, Jim Murray, when I was an adolescent and her and becoming, and even though, you know, no one should write, the hyperbole thing, the metaphor thing, that was, he did it better than anyone ever did it, and it's foolish to even try to think about, but I was, those are my two guys. Jim Murray, who was able to read as a syndicated columnist. He was in the Philadelphia Inquirer. I was able to get the Philadelphia Inquirer

and read a syndicated column when that was the way the world operated. And then Frank DeFord. And here's just quickly, I'm 23 years old covering the Celtics in 1969. And who shows up about one month into the season to write a story about the Boston Celtics post Bill Russell, Frank DeFord?

I got to meet him and then and it's established an acquaintanceship that lasted until his, his sad passing a couple of years ago. But you mentioned you hit the name. That's the guy would want to be. Bob Brian, I only get to talk to you about once, twice a year. Us radio blathers.

I'll have you know that I wanted to be a sports rider but didn't have the skill set, the patience, or any ability to do it. So I ended up talking for a living, but I've admired you for a long time. I love your stories. and your base of knowledge is just your foundational knowledge is unbelievable. Thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun.

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