The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Burrow Injury Scare, Payton Trash Talk, Rodgers $$$ Haircut with Middlekauff

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

First, Colin reacts to the collective sigh of relief in Cincinnati after learning that Joe Burrow apparently only suffered a minor calf injury after being carted out of Bengals camp practice, and the significance of Aaron Rodgers taking a giant pay cut in his first season with the Jets. Then, Colin is joined by 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff to discuss why Sean Payton decided to publicly trash Jets OC - and historically bad former Broncos HC - Nathaniel Hackett, if HC Robert Saleh was smart to get involved in the drama, why Aaron Rodgers willingness to take a huge pay cut should have the Jets feeling optimistic, and the Pac-12’s biggest mistake as the once power conference clings to life support. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Herd #Volume #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We'll get to that in the next couple of weeks. I just got back from a vacation, which was five days. days with friends on a boat in British Columbia. A little wetter than I wanted, but it is an absolutely stunning part of North America. In fact, I think it's the most beautiful part of North America I've ever ventured into from the waterfalls, kayaking, the landscape, good meals, early cocktails, so it's great to be back. The Hurt podcast brought to you by Netflix. Let's start with a story of the day. Joe Burrow pulled up, rolling outright, non-contact injury, as a third. You know, Cincinnati Bengals camp today.

And the result is, talk about a thank God, a calf injury, a calf strain. So Joe Burrow and I now have one thing in common in our life. Two, I was a quarterback, awful, he's a great one, and we both had a calf strain. Briefly painful, more annoying. The biggest concern with calf strains is often you think it's solved, you think it's healed, you rush back. But I think it happens. I don't know if dehydration is a part of it, but in the Midwest and during training camps, it is unbelievably hot.

And we know what's going on with climate change in America. This is the hottest summer on record in the history of our country. The good news is a calf strain keeps you mostly out of camp, doesn't keep you out of games. It would have not only changed the Bengals, but the division, the conference in the National Football League. Burrow, who we had on this podcast network last year, is a guest for about 15. 16 podcast interviews coming out of college, I thought he was going to be a better version of Tony Romo. Good arm, not great, good mobility, not a blazer, a gamer, throw a few picks, but willing to throw it into tight windows. He is a better version of Tony Romo, much better. But Romo was always

underappreciated because he's a cowboy quarterback. We tend to beat up on cowboy quarterbacks more than any other franchise. What Burroughs really become, and he's done it without camps. Remember the pandemic was his first camp, then he had an injury. Then there was appendectomy surgery, so he missed last year's camp. Now he's going to miss this year's camp. So he's never really had a full camp in four years in the NFL. Nonetheless, I think what he's become is, along with Patrick Mahomes, the best situational quarterback in the league is that I think Josh Allen's bigger, stronger with a better arm

and more mobile, a better athlete. But in situational football, Josh can uncork some work. wild throws. I don't trust Josh Allen as much in those key moments in a football game. And I think that's really what has separated Mahomes from everybody else. It's not just the talent. It's the ability in big spots, trailing late, everybody knows you're throwing to throw pinpoint balls into tight spaces, be it Travis Kelsey for Mahomes or Jamar Chase T. Higgins or Boyd for the Bengals. So Joe Burroughs is going to be fine. I was talking about this today on FS1. We're really lucky right now. There's obviously enormous wealth and attention and fame heaped on young

athletes in all sports, but we don't have a single quarterback right now. I'm talking the big namers, the stars, the franchise guys, Lamar, Jalen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Trevor Lawrence. We don't have a pain in the ass. We got very nice guys, leaders, often dads as coaches, or a strong guidance in their family. We got quality guys. running these franchises that are mature beyond their years. I mean, it's pretty legendary that Justin Herbert is constantly seeking ways to avoid the media as he gets into Chargers practice. Burroughs the same way. We had him on 15 podcasts.

He wasn't scripted, but you could tell he was the son of a coach, never got in the way of himself, never took any bait if he thought it was a question that would get him in trouble. So it's a sigh of relief. He is one of the absolute faces of the league, Joe Kuhl, and it's a calf strain, which are painful, briefly, and then you tend to think you're through them before you are, so sometimes you rush back, but he'll be fine. The other quarterback story of note, while I was gone, was Aaron Rogers taking a $35 million haircut for the New York Jets over the next two years. You know, I've always questioned not necessarily Aaron Rogers' commitment because nobody gives back $35 million. Owners don't. That's for sure. But the questions I always had about Aaron Rogers were not about his talent, his intellect, or his commitment. The truth was, Green Bay doesn't have an owner. There's nobody to really stand in front of you and call you out. You're the most powerful person, not only in the town, the organization, the state in Milwaukee. I call it the Green Bay quarterback syndrome. They both became the same guy, kind of threatening, retirement. frustrated with the franchise, not getting free agents, not having an owner that can go out, take a big swing and get you a guy like Stan Cronkey can do for the Rams or David Tepper could do

for the Carolina Panthers. That's the downside not having an owner. Sometimes you got to call a guy, he's on the tarmac in his private jet, his Gulfstream, and he goes and gets Matt Stafford. That's how it happened with the Rams. So I think for both Brett Farv and Aaron Rogers, they got tired of Green Bay. It's not that they were too big for the room. But it's a unique environment being a superstar quarterback on a franchise in the smallest town in American sports with no owner that can't acquire free agents on a regular basis. So I think New York's a better fit form actually right now. And he looks at himself.

He looks at his weaknesses and says, I got to be more engaged with young guys. I got to stop talking about retirement. And I can't be paralyzed if I'm not the highest paid quarterback or second highest paid quarterback in the league. The data is clear. If you're a top two or three paid quarterback, Mahomes now, about seventh. That puts you in line to win a Super Bowl. About seventh. If you're a top two paid quarterback in this league, you will have to sacrifice somewhere. A good tied end, a second elite

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I started my show today talking about Sean Payton. You know this as a former NFL scout under Andy Reid with the Philadelphia Eagles, is that you don't generally, in any industry, call people out, right? Like there's an unspoken sort of rule in the NFL. You don't call people out. How shocked were you that Peyton said that's one of the worst coaching jobs ever? He took a shot at the GM who's still in the building. Were you surprised by it?

Yeah, to me, that's the biggest headline. I was actually assuming that they might have a GM turnover after the draft and Peyton survived, you know, when you factor in how much money that they gave Sean. I would say it would be shocking if it was Andy Reid or Bill Belichick. I would say when you look at Sean Payton's history, he's a Parcells guy. You know, back in the day, coaches, I would say like in the 90s and the 80s, much more open to rip a player or fellow coach, you know, an opposing coach publicly. I remember as a kid, Phil Jackson growing up in the Northern California area, used to talk shit about Sacramento when the Lakers and Kings were going at it.

But I would say the social media age and just a lot of coaches is not necessarily their personality. It is Sean's. The other thing is, Colin, it is objectively one of the worst coaching jobs. I would say we've seen two of them the last couple years, right? Urban Meyer and Nathaniel Hackett, they literally did not finish one season. We've seen a lot of one and done coaches. They were fired before the season ended in year one. I mean, it was all-time disaster.

Now, Urban, a little more unique, had a long resume of success while at college. Hackett clearly, I think, and now you see in New York, was hired for one specific player. And then that player decided to sign with Green Day. And then they went with their second option. They were able to get it to go. But remember when they hired the guy to help him with the clock? like 24 hours into his tenure? Like Freddie Kitchens, Steve Wilkes.

I think what you're seeing is now, and I would just theorize that it used to be that an NFL owner had a net worth of $400 million, maybe $800 million. Well, now when it's $9 billion or $11 billion, riding off a coaching mistake is a rounding error. It just doesn't matter anymore. You can write off a $40 million.

or check. And I also think, and so you're seeing more of that. Coaches just say, I'm just, I'm not going to do year two. So the other thing that's happened is the league is now so defined by the quality of your quarterback is that if Brian Flores has a relationship issue with Tua, you're out. People can't, you can't have it. So, I mean, if Belichick did not have his legacy, that Matt Patricia move would get him fired. So we're seeing. We're seeing wealthier owners. Also, that wealth creates a belief that I'm worth this much money.

You need to win immediately. That's why when Dion Sanders flushes out Colorado's program, he's not stupid. Dion realizes if he doesn't win by year two, he's gone. You've got to get guys out now. And it's not the most graceful way to do it. But kind of there's the door. See your way out. And I think in the NFL, like when Sean Pays,

and calls out that team, what he's doing is he is sending a message to the locker room. It wasn't Russell's fault. He's still our guy. And the second thing is he's letting everybody in the building know. Because remember what he did when he first got there, John. He changed lunch. He changed, you know, team lunch got changed. He wouldn't let certain people into certain areas that Nathaniel Hackett did. So, and I'm sure some of them grumbled. And so now he's reinforcing his theory or his system on this. You can't hang out with the players. You can't have your kids around the building. No interns in meeting rooms. So he's reinforcing it over and over. That was a disaster. We're doing the opposite of that. So I think sometimes, you know, he's a, I've had dinner with him before.

I've had coffees with him. Sean is very comfortable with the truth and confrontation. And not everybody is. So I think it's just his way of verbally cleaning out the room starting over, nuking the old culture. Well, the other thing is, obviously he got paid a lot of money, you know, $18 million or whatever. He was already really rich. So he did not take this job because he needed the money. He took this job because he wants to have success.

And like you said, on the flip side with these owners, even Mark Davis and Mike Brown have money now. But this family has an unlimited amount of money. And if he does not win, quickly, like within the first three years, if he's not making the playoffs, they will just move on. You know, so it's like, and what's he going to do, get a third job? You know, this could be it.

This is an awesome opportunity. He knows it. They got some talent. To me, it's a little bit of a throwback to the guy that taught him is Parcells. This is a Parcells type move. We just don't see it that often anymore, right? And part of it is the best coach in the league. And I'd even say the younger guys, McVeigh, Kyle, they wouldn't do this.

But Sean is, is not cut from that. that cloth. So I thoroughly enjoyed it. I wish we had more of it, Colin. Yeah, I'm never going to complain when people give me content. I mean, it was funny having 20 different visits with Sean Peyton, great storyteller, loves to tell him and he's great at it. And I remember telling the staff, I'm like, and our bosses at Fox. I'm like, he's going too fast upstairs to sit in the sidelines. Like he, you can take a year or two off, but tech and and pro football in this country, like they change every two years.

Yeah. Like something's changing. Rules are changing, a sensibility, a culture. Sean was just too smart, too current, too competitive to sit in the sidelines for years. Remember, Parcells did broadcasting for a brief stint.

Then he went off to coaching again. Some people like Bill Cower, they almost pivot to a different lifestyle. Yeah. Like Sean, Sean's got one speed. It's zero to 60. I don't care if he's golfing,

dinner and having a bottle of wine. He's competing. He's storytelling. He's, he's, into it. So I, and I, you know, Denver is one of, I've, I've said before, it's the Steelers with mountains. It's like Pittsburgh for most of my life. Denver's been well owned, well run, unbelievable loyal fan base, great local marketing. It's really been a very stable organization since like the 70s. I remember the Orange Crush defense in Craig Morton. But, you know, they went

through a post-Elway kind of a hole, but I always feel like Denver for pro athletes is a really good free agent market. Peyton Manning moved there. I mean, he grew up in the South. Peyton Manning moved his family and his business operations to Denver, a suburb. So I think you can get a roll in there pretty quick. I just have a hard time believing Gino Smith is now better than Russell Wilson. I'm just not going to believe that. I think Russell Bounce. is back and Gino Smith probably a little bit pulls back and we get a truer picture of what that trades about. Well, that's one of those, you know, just in a vacuum, Gino Smith. A lot of guys later on in their career in any sport can have a bounce back year or can have a one-off year or you go,

see, this is what the guy could have done. Well, then do they sustain that for five years? Like Rich Gannon resurrected his career with the Raiders and had an awesome stretch. most guys have the one-off season and then kind of, you know, resort back to what they, maybe a better version of what they were, no longer a backup. But is he going to throw 30 touchdowns every season for the next three seasons? And we're going to look up. You throw 100 touchdowns over however, you know, 50 games. Probably not, right?

And that's another team. A lot of teams, you know, Denver needed a shakeup. They needed to Bill Parcells come in and just rattle some cages. Then there were the teams like the Giants in Seattle, which got to, Lyons a little bit last year, got to really sneak up on people. The Chiefs, have everyone's been coming at them for five years and they hit right back, no problem. Belichick and Brady for 20 years. It'll be interesting how some of these teams, especially in the NFC, which we all kind of agree is not great. Is Seattle just a lock to win 10 games?

Drafted pretty good. But like the quarterback, he's just going to sustain it. The Giants, a lot of pressure now. A lot of guys getting paid. Is our team really that talented? Do they benefit from winning some of those close games? Coach is good. But it's a lot. more difficult to just win on a yearly base when you do not have Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. I mean, you've got to be good in a lot of different faces. What makes the Niners, they've been pretty lucky because they haven't had to pay a big time court. They're elite in all these positions so they can kind of overcome it. But it's, if you do not have a star quarterback, you usually don't just rattle off double digit wins every single season.

I thought it was interesting when Peyton took a shot at Nathaniel Hackett that Robert Sala actually went out and responded to it. Yeah. And, you know, Sala, he's just this good looking alpha, kind of a movie star, kind of a tough guy. And he responds. Like he, he likes the microphone. He's not shy. I don't know if that's, he's very much a modern coach.

He's very much a defensive coach. Like Tomlin, Pete Carroll, Robert Sala. emotional. Like they emote and they're not afraid to tell you what they think. I think sometimes offensive coaches can be a tad more calculated.

You know what I mean? In the off season, in the season, a little more calculated, game playing. You know, offense is a lot about hiding what you're doing. Defense is manhood,

alpha, blowing stuff up, getting in your face. Here we come. This is what we do. We, Sol a firing back at Peyton, because they play each other in like week five, did that surprise you?

No, because I do think you have to stick up for your guy. And they're kind of the up and coming team. He's like you said, a swagger guy. I had someone in that organization, though, that told me last year, or maybe even before the season started, they were really impressed with when things were going shitty, how well he acted, you know, pretty even keel in the building, you know, on a weekly basis when times were tough.

But I think when you make a trade like this, there's just a lot of tangible pressure. One thing with the Jets, they got a lot going on, right? You got cameras there. You got people talking about them. They're in, you could argue on paper, the best division in football. You have a coach in GM at this season, let's say they went seven games. Like, are they going to, would they get fired?

You know, it's pretty hot in there, given what they just invested in Aaron Rogers. Though I do think the Aaron Rogers, it was almost like Aaron kind of forced his way there. Then he did like a three month onboarding process where he interviewed them. He was kind of feeling them out, seeing it. And then he came away impressed to do that contract renegotiation. So to me, that's a pretty big win for the organization. It makes them look like he views them as competent. Now, ultimately, you've got to get it done come Sunday.

But I understand why Robert Sala went to that. But he also said that we didn't hire Nate Hackett because of Aaron Rogers. Like, bullshit. You know, Nate Hackett now has been hired. And I don't know the guy, UC Davis guy. I grew up in Davis. I root for him. But let's be real.

he's gotten his last two jobs. A big reason is because of Aaron Rogers. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, being good friends with LeBron James or Steph Curry or Aaron Rogers is a pretty good professional move if you're a coach, right? The, you know, I thought it was not just a shave. It was almost a realignment of priorities when Aaron took a $31 million pay cut. Like not a lot of owners are doing that. I did think, and it makes sense.

Data tells you you can't be the high. highest paid second highest paid quarterback in the league you're not going to win super bowls the holmes is now close to seventh i think or something yeah thereabouts um i've moved a bunch in my career and every time i move i try to assess what i was bad at you know was i too reckless here was i a good teammate there and i thought you know every stop i've tried to get better at something i was not very good at um and um you know if this is my last stop this is what i am But I do think when you move, you kind of look in the rearview mirror and you go, all right, let's get better at stuff. Some out of your control, some very much in your control.

So I do think that it feels like Rogers, he's not talking about retirement. It's more about commitment. Much more connected to young players in camp. And the truth is, like, I always felt like in Green Bay, like how much he made mattered. Like, it felt like it was a thing. Now, and, you know, New York, he's going to get tax to a much higher level. So it's not just a $31 million tax or a $31 million pay cut. He's losing a lot of money.

Smart move, unique move. What did you make of it? Well, I think he deserves credit from the sense that we can, we talk a lot about men maturing, right? In our 20s, we grow a lot. I've grown a lot personally in my 30s. And, you know, these last couple years, it felt like, God, this is getting a little weird. And he kind of feels like a different guy right now. I watched his press conference yesterday, just different vibes than he had. And it might have just been like you said, you're in a place.

Things aren't going well. Self-created. It wasn't all Green Bay's fault. But it was just time for a divorce. And then he comes here. He has a lot on the line. Legacy-wise, sometimes is stupid. But he wants to be considered, because really his contemporaries, right, in the last 15, 20 years are Brady and Manning. He's never going to catch Tom. But like, he goes to a new. place. Peyton went to Denver, resurrected him and got him to multiple Super Bowls in one-one. And we view Peyton even in a higher regard than we already did. And we held him pretty high. Can you imagine if he just goes Joe Montana and makes like the Chiefs immediately good like he goes to the Jets and they're just AFC championship game, Super Bowl, even if he doesn't

win a Super Bowl, it'd be a big, big like moment for him because he would get more credit than Sala or Joe Douglas or the Johnson family. He has a lot on the line here. And I back to what I said about his onboarding process. I think he's seen. They have a lot of talent. He likes the vibe. I think New York, whatever's fitness personality in this 39-year-old version of Rogers. And he knows, like, short-lived time.

Like, more often than not, he's not going to play to 45. So really, it's probably the next 48, you know, two years, maybe three. But he retired the retirement conversation. He's all in on these couple years. and just knows that for him personally, you can look at it being a little selfish, even though he's doing the right thing. He could really, really change the perception

of the way we discuss him. Yeah, and I also think, and Mahomes gets this, is that if you're a top 10 quarterback ever, and if he went to New York and had great success, he probably squeezes into that top 10 ever. Because I think that, you know, that top 10 comes down to Super Bowls, production. I mean, some old guys,

are in it Bradshaw because of the Super Bowls, but it's a different time. Montana's obviously in it. Brady's in it. Peyton Manning's in it. Elway Marino. Bree's a crowded space. Mahomes is now absolutely in it.

For sure. It's getting to be a crowded space. If you're a top 10 quarterback ever, and I think Mahomes sees this, there's a lot of money post football. There's a lot of fame. I mean, Farv's career is not, I mean, Brett's a bit of a punchline.

things have gotten ugly in Mississippi regarding some charity and his involvement like it didn't end well there was the controversy with the jets that terrible interception as a member of the Vikings and his last couple years in Green Bay he was difficult like I look at how

and I think about this all the time in my career it's hard to end like Johnny Carson last week on the air you're great last great show buy I'm going to play tennis. That is so rare. It's like it's choppy for everybody. It was choppy for Michael Jordan.

It's choppy for Tiger now. I do think, Aaron, three years in New York, a couple of AFC championship appearances, winner lose, I think we look at him different. I think it keeps him in the top 10 all time. Yeah, I remember texting with Richard Sherman when he was on the 49ers. And he remember, he played a role in negotiating the latest CBA. And there were so many different areas with the owners were fighting. And one thing I remember him telling me is you don't really make any money for playoff games, right?

Everyone on the team in a playoff game, Drew Brees or Tom Brady makes the same as the 53rd guy. I was like, yeah, it's kind of crazy when you think about it. But if you have success in the playoffs, Travis Kelsey talked about this a couple weeks ago saying he was underpaid. His marketability, the rest of his life has changed because we view him as a winner as a great player. Look at Draymond, right? could have got more money, knows where his bread's buttered, and he, for the rest of his life, will be viewed as one of the great winners.

And that's how we talk about these sports. James Hardin's going to have all this money, but once his career's over, no one's going to care. Not a soul, right? So he'd maybe Daryl Morey. So Aaron does this. He did everything he could possibly do in Green Bay,

and it was clearly going down the wrong road. I think it would be disproportionate how much credit he'll get if, let's just say this year they are in the AFC championship game, relative to the coordinator, relative to the head coach, relative to anyone in that organization, besides maybe like a Garrett Wilson, if he becomes a star, Aaron will get of the pie chart, I would say like 85%, especially now with the pay cut. And I also think pay cuts, I heard you talking on your show earlier today.

I don't care how rich a guy is. It's rare to just most humans do not give money back. But you're talking a level like Aaron's worth hundreds of millions of dollars just on the field, let alone what he's made off the field. it's not ultimately as crazy to his lifestyle, but I do think it sets the tone in the organization. It really is a Tom Brady-like movie. It's something Tom would have done.

Tom did it, right? And I think it kind of sets the tone for the organization. It makes it Robert Salas job easier, especially if they can coach him hard, if he's being more relatable to younger players, like you said, which has been something that's been a bugaboo in Green Bay. He just wouldn't work with him. He was nowhere to be found.

He was around in the off-season. He can say it's overrated all he wants, but it clearly matters. Summer is heating up in so is pro baseball. You can certainly watch your favorite baseball team on television, but there is nothing like being at the ballpark to watch your favorite team. For last minute, amazing deals to see your favorite baseball team live. Check out game time.

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And with it, you get 20 bucks. off. 20 bucks. No matter where you live, wherever. Go out and have some fun this week. Download game time today. It's so easy. Last minute tickets, concert, major league baseball, lowest prices, guaranteed. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. So I wanted to talk briefly because you and I grew up with a lot of Pac-12 football. Colorado announced they'll be leaving in 24 back to the Big 12. USC and UCLA are leaving. The conference the PAC 12 is eroding quickly. The Big 12 currently has a better TV deal than the PAC 12 does, and that's a big part of it. You get guaranteed payouts. You know, I thought the misstep by the PAC 12,

still searching for a partner, I thought the real misstep, if I would have been the PAC 12 commissioner a year ago, I would have gone to Apple and said, listen, we know if we put them on a streaming service, we're not going to have the size of audience. But we have so many of our graduates at our school, Stanford, Washington, Cal, USC, UCLA. So many Apple employees probably went to Pack 12 schools. We feel like you represent our values and our vision.

I would have gone to Apple and said, you know, we'll sign a contract with you. we can still have games, Notre Dame, USC, Washington, Michigan, Oregon, Oklahoma. We can still play games out of conference for schools to make money, aligning with other big name schools. But I would have gone, because I think Apple's a progressive company, I think the PAC 12s always been sort of a leader in offenses. Chip Kelly sort of changed the way offenses maneuvered in college,

briefly in pro, but back to college. And I think they got a little. precious. And I've told my Pact 12 friends this for years. There's too much to do in Seattle. There's too much to do in the fall in Los Angeles, in San Francisco, and Phoenix. We're not Starksville, Mississippi. We're not Lubbock, Texas. We're not, you know, Madison, Wisconsin, which is a fun city. Athens, Georgia. I mean, you can name off all the southern city. We have pro sports in a lot of our Pact 12 cities. We have perfect summer and fall weather. The bottom line is our stadiums aren't full.

We don't care as much. And that's okay. We could have taken advantage of the one thing the West has, the Midwest and South doesn't. Tech juggernauts. And I would have aligned myself as a commissioner with an Apple and just said, we don't care if we get lost in streaming. Your vision is how we view us. Academic, progressive, sort of left-leaning.

They didn't do it. They've been a little finicky, and I think they're in danger of the conference dissolving. Yeah, I think it's dead. And I think it unofficially died years ago. The West Coast college football has never had anything in common with the SEC. Stanford for that hardball end and then into David Shaw was constantly a top eight program in the country. I mean, sometimes top three or four. And they'd struggle to get 10,000 people.

And you can't be like, well, no one in Northern California cares about football. The 49ers are one of the biggest brands. People love football in California. Pro football. But I think three, four, five years ago under Larry Scott, it just felt like they didn't care. Now, Oregon cared. USC in theory cared. Some of the programs cared.

But as a whole, as a partnership, it never felt like the Big Ten, which I would say academically is pretty forward. I mean, they got powerhouse programs. Michigan. Big Ten is a great academic conference. It never felt like. sports wasn't a major priority as a whole. Right. And they never, and they just kept, they viewed themselves as an equal to the SEC,

even at times when they weren't and they thought like that. And the Pack 12 under Larry, it's not all his fault. The presidents just did not. And they got lapped. And now Lewis Hamilton is not in there. They can't catch up. There's too much money. Everything's changed.

You could all argue Colorado, whatever, go back to the Big 12. Like, that's not the end of the world. But the moment USC and it wasn't just that. day they left, clearly they had realized this is not going to work. What does Oregon and Washington do, though? Because you know Oregon truly cares. They just gave their coach a raise, which I would imagine part of that is like, hey, man, we stay here for a little bit. We'll figure this out. Is it inevitable that because my theory is that we're just going to head to AFC, NFC, NFC, Big 10, SEC, some semblance of that where it's just basically two huge conferences and then they both meet up in

the playoffs, 12, 14 teams or whatever, like the NFL. It feels like where we're headed. I know the Big 12 is creating this, but don't they end up just bleeding with some of the top ACC teams as the major Power 5 is just in two separate conferences almost like the National Football League? Well, I think Washington and Oregon could eventually be invited to the Big 10. They will not get a full television share. They'll probably get half a share, which is still more than the PAC 12 would have paid them. I think they won in now, and I think the Big 10 is weighing the options.

and do they need Washington and Oregon? They're not vibrant recruiting areas. Seattle's a big market. Oregon's got great branding. I think Washington and Oregon do have large loyal followings. They sell out their home games. Both have been in national championship games. Huskies have won.

So I think they have value. Both are really good right now, you know, top 15, 20 programs. Yeah. So it's a bummer. But, you know, for years and years when I, my loyal, to the West Coast. I've told my friends, guys, I've been to SEC stadiums. I've been to the Big Ten. There's less to do in those small geographical footprints. And I'm sorry, Madison, Wisconsin, and Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Columbus, Ohio, they care more than San Francisco and L.A. What do you want me to say? They simply care more. And when USC and UCLA jettisoned the PAC 12 after this year, to go to the Big Ten, I remember talking to former athletic director Mike Bone at USC. And he asked me a couple years ago, he said, you know, it was right after they hired Lincoln Riley, right after. And I said, you know, and before the big 10 pivot, I said, if I was you, I would figure out a way to get these Michigans and these Iowa's and these Nebraska's and these Penn States to do home and homes.

I don't care if I lose some of these games. Those Midwest fans in October, they'll make the trek out here. And then, I swear to God, a month later, you know, they move. moved, they pivoted to the Big Ten. But I think both USC and UCLA, I don't think the weather is that big of a deal. They got four home games because they play each other to end the season. It'll be fine. You know, USC and UCLA will go on the road four times.

You know, most of those late September, October, early November, there won't be blizzards. But I think USC had been thinking about it for years. They were really frustrated. They considered going independent, kind of doing a Notre Dame, a BYU for years. So I think some things are inevitable. And I think the Pact 12 in that ultra-competitive sort of Big 10 SEC world, I think it was inevitable. The Pact 12 was going to shrink. Exactly.

Maybe Cal's destined to play UC Davis and Weber State. And Oregon State and Washington State are destined to play Fresno State, San Diego State, and Boise State. That's right. Over time, things change. The cream rises and everyone else finds their niche. And that's, Boise State's been very successful for 20 years, not being. in a Power 5. So it's not like Washington State or Oregon State are just going to disappear.

Cow potentially could. And maybe they just don't care that much because I'd say they really don't. John Middlough, three and out and go low golf podcast, former scout with the Eagles under Andy Reed. As always, my friend, this was fun. Colin, you look good. You look refreshed. I saw you taking some cold plunges there in British Columbia. And they were cold.

They look cold. You know. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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