The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Butler Has Elevated Curry To MVP Level, Luka + LeBron = The Warriors Kryptonite? What’s Wrong With The Knicks

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Colin is joined by Marcus Thompson, sportswriter for The Athletic and author of “Golden,” KD” and “Dynasties” to talk NBA! They start with how the addition of Jimmy Butler has completely transformed the Warriors and why his presence has elevated Steph Curry’s game back to an MVP level (3:15). They talk about the impact Butler has had on the Warriors offense (7:30), and what role to expect from Jonathan Kuminga when he returns from injury (9:45). Marcus fills Colin in on what Jimmy Butler is like in person and whether his reputation of being intense, aggressive and abrasive is accurate (12:15). Marcus confirms the rumors that were swirling before the tradeline about the Warriors being interested in bringing Kevin Durant back, and talk about what happened behind the scenes in order to make the Butler trade happen (14:00). They pivot to the Luka + LeBron pairing and how their opposition views the new look Lakers, and why the Lakers could be the Warriors kryptonite (17:00). They also discuss the impact of J.J. Reddick’s coaching on the team and why their improvement on defense can be directly attributed to the coach (29:00).  They debate why Mark Cuban decided to sell his majority stake in the Mavericks and whether the prospect of moving the team to Las Vegas factored into the decision, and whether Cuban had prior insight into the Luka trade (33:45).  Colin floats his theory that LeBron had a bigger hand behind the scenes in facilitating the Luka trade than people realize, but Marcus offers a competing theory (37:00). They also debate whether the Mavs excuse of Luka being hurt and out of shape holds up (40:00). They try to diagnose what’s wrong with the Knicks, why they seem to have regressed since last season and why they have almost no chance of beating the Celtics or Cavs in the playoffs (50:00). Finally, they debate what move the OKC Thunder should make when they finally decide to cash in the treasure trove of draft picks they’re sitting on (56:30). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right, he's one of my favorite guests, and it's a perfect time to get him, Marcus Thompson, writes for the athletic. He's the author of the book Golden, KD, and Dynasties, really plugged in. You know, the Warriors got a lot of good people covering them. I think Marcus does as good a job as anybody that covers a team in the country in any sport. And he is joining us. I mean, it's so funny because I watched a lot of Warriors basketball. And in my job, I got to watch a lot of stuff. But, you know, I just got into a habit, you know, for 10 years of watching the Warriors.

And I made a comment, I'm like, man, when Steph is off the floor, this is pre-Jimmy Boller, I'm like, this is a boring-ass team. This is a bad watch. and I said, I'd bring in Jimmy Butler just for energy and juice. He'll just get everybody all worked up. So were you in, when you heard Jimmy was coming, were you in the, it may not work camp, it'll work kind of camp, or it'll be sensational camp. Which camp were you in?

I might be in all three, to be honest with you. I might have been in all three. You know, it was difficult. I will say this up front. I didn't expect this. Yeah. I didn't expect, like, I mean, like, the one thing that's underscores for me, I love Andrew Wiggins. I think Andrew Wiggins is a really good NBA player, especially who he's become with the Warrior.

He's like a testament to if you put him in a right situation, right? He'll be great for you. Like, he probably shouldn't be the A1 of a franchise, right? Yeah. But if you put him in a good situation, he's great. Like, he's a great teammate, plays hard. Colin, there's a difference between an all-star

and a superstar. These teams are categorically different. And because of all the drama that was going down in Miami and, you know, even how Miami was like a middling kind of team over these last couple of years,

I forgot that Jimmy Butler is a superstar. That to me is the thing. Cognitively, if you said, yeah, you put another superstar next to Steph, like that, that's what he needs. But watching him with Jimmy, it reminds you, like, no, Jimmy is one of them ones. Like, he's a bit of a side show sometimes, but, like, he's one of those guys. And it's instant.

And the crazy part is he doesn't even have to play well. Yeah. He doesn't even have to play well. He's not shooting well right now. He's not even taking his shots. Jimmy lives mid-range. He's going to the elbow and rising up. He's not doing any of that.

He's just on the court, and by virtue of being Jimmy Butler on the court, he will punish you if you let him. And if you don't, then Steph will punish you. So, like, that's the thing. Like, the moment he got there, you could feel the vibe change just by him being there. Like, he shows up in his aloe sweatsuit at the Laker game. He doesn't even sit on the bench. None of the things you'd expect this dude to come in to be like, all right, I'm part of this thing. he just came in as Jimmy and it changed everything.

And I was like, hey, yo, I didn't see that. Like, I didn't see that happening in the way like it did. Right. He's also, I've used the word, he's a very intentional player. Like possessions matter. He doesn't waste possessions. I always thought sometimes Wiggins could be a little bit of a floater. He would waste possessions.

You weren't quite sure if he was on the floor. Jimmy's got more of a presence. He's more intentional. He gets to the free throw. line. And I, you know, it also underscores something, and I've seen this with LeBron, with Luca, is when you're on a treadmill to nowhere, this is a long season. And it's hard to get guys like Steph or LeBron fired up for an eight seed, right? You give them a, you give them, I said this, it's like LeBron and Steph have a new buddy in the neighborhood they want to show off to. And they're just,

I mean, Steph's averaging like six more points. He's only taking one more shot. So I think it, you know, in football, you got eight home games. You know, it's very urgent. It's hard for these guys who are at the mountaintop to get fired up for, you know, a playing team. I feel like Steph is complete. This is one of these unintended benefits of making a trade with a great player.

The great player drives to the arena ready to show off, ready to perform. And now the honeymoon, the new car smell may wear off. but there is something to be said about the fit. Hell, Coominga's not playing. When you watch, when you watch Butler, analytically, there were questions if he'd fit. Did, do you think he's more valuable

on offense or defense right now? Right now, offense, definitely. I mean, by virtue of he's impacting one of the greatest offensive weapons in the history of sports in the way he is, right? Like, you can see it. Steph is a different dude. Yeah.

Steph's a monster. Yeah. It's so crazy. He said it and I didn't know it until I looked it up. The day they traded him, Steph took 36 shots. And then the next day, he took 32. It was the first time in his career. He's taking 30 shots in back-to-back games.

He'd never done that before. And Jimmy hadn't even played yet. Just the fact that we got Jimmy now, let's turn up. So the fact that. So the fact that Jimmy has that impact on Steph, to me, brings that to it because you're right. Like the part that that's so very viscerally clear is they just were not good before. I mean, they weren't. They weren't.

It was boring. They got guys who just don't go into the paint. Jimmy's message now is like, hey, you see what they're doing to Steph. Just go into the paint. It's wide open. As a matter of fact, I'm going to show you. Just throw it down to me in the paint. Like, I'm not doing anything else.

I'm going to the ramp. And you could see them saying, hey, that's kind of working. But without that, they're just chucking threes. They aren't really very good. And it was just draining life out of step. So to me, that part has been such a jolt. Like, they're like a top five offensive defense with Jimmy, but they were bad offensively.

And boring. Bad. Yeah. And bad and boring. It's a bad combo. Right? You don't want to be bad ed boring. And the other thing is, you see this in baseball, when you bring like a true ace to a staff, it allows everybody to go back in the rotation one. It's the right spot, yeah.

And this now allows, I always felt Cummingo was being kind of forced to be a two. And right now he's a three. Yeah, Wiggins two, by the way. Yeah, yeah. And so I think comminga, now do you think comminga will get pinched when he comes back? How many, I mean, what will his role be? I do think he will get pinched a little bit. And the difficulty is like, you know, Steve's big on shooters.

And obviously with Steph, you need space. So the thing that's going to be difficult for Kaminka is Jimmy Butler's playing a lot and Draymond is playing a lot. That's two dudes who do not shoot through. Draymond don't take him and he's shooting the best he's ever shot like in a long time. But they're leaving them open, right? They're packing a paint and they're like, Draymond have at it. if you had come make it to the mix,

that's three guys who the defense is like, yeah, we kind of don't care if you shoot it. And that's the problem with them. Like, you don't have enough shooters. Steph doesn't have room to work. You allow them to trap.

So I think he's probably going to come off the bench. They're going to put him in that second unit, and he's got to go dominate that. And I think eventually they'll figure it out, but he's going to have to shoot better. So I do think he gets pinched. The only reason why I think it'll work, though, it's because they're just playing transition basketball.

They're just running. They're just throwing it out, throwing it ahead. And like you said, Jimmy's the one guy who doesn't turn the ball over. Yeah. So he's like being sure about it. And Kamiga has a blueprint for how to play. Like just smart, clean, aggressive basketball. If he can do that, I think he'll be fine, but he's got to have to shoot better.

He's got to shoot like 38% in order to justify being on the, like, with Jimmy, Draymond, and Kamiga. Like, that's a lot of non-shooting to to deal with Steph.

So this is going to be the issue. It's the last puzzle piece to fix. If it works, Colin, they might be the four-seat. Yeah,

yeah. That's exactly right. They were dead. They were dead. It was over. Like, Steph is doing, like,

eulogies at the press conference, right? And all of a sudden, they might be in top four or five seat. Yeah, I think teams like Houston can't shoot, Memphis too young. Yeah.

Oklahoma City is very, deep, but those young players in playoff road games, I've said... Still got to see it. Still got to see them. I said, OKC, I would not want to face the Warriors. I'd have no interest in that. I mean, you got, you got 400-some playoff games with Jimmy, Draymond, Steph. Like, I got no interest.

Chat Holmgren's good. Let's go see him in a big road playoff game in the Bay Area, like not interested. That's stuff. So, you know, it's funny. Jimmy always had this reputation. He's bounced around a little bit that he can be difficult. I see him more as just intentional. intense. What is it like to cover him? What is he like shooting around? What is he like in games?

I mean, authentically, what's his personality? It's a trip, man. He's the coolest guy in the world. Like, it's so funny to get the reputation of a guy and then compare it to what you feel when you meet him. And it's just like, like, it's hard to fathom the other guy. Now, I'm not, I'm not an idiot, Colin. That other guy's there, right? the guy that'll cuss out the entire team and the coach, right? Like in a practice, the guy that'll, you know, goes toe to toe with Pat Riley, like that guy's clearly there. But he's very warm. He's good Jimmy right now.

His spirits are high. He got an extra $58 million, which helps. I think a lot of his issues are about getting the money he thinks he deserves. So, like, he's been great. Like, you know, I kind of measure these things by who can you have a conversation? with it. Not like put a recorder in somebody's face, but who can you go and just have a conversation with?

And Jimmy is a guy, you can just go have a conversation with him. Now, you hear about he doesn't fly sometimes with the team or he doesn't stay in the hotel. He got his own crew. And I guess I just had this perception that Jimmy would be

somebody that would be difficult. Man, all you want to talk to Jimmy, brother, go talk about some dominoes. He'll talk your ear off about some Domino's, right? Because he cooked Draymond, apparently, in Domino's. Volume sports took an ale when they went.

There were a lot of suggestions that KD, and I'm sure it happened. Matt Isbba, the owner of the Sons, they're going to reboot this thing. There's absolutely a market for KD, still a tremendous 27-a-night player. I've always been a huge fan.

Give me some insight here, Marcus. Were they rumors? Do the Warriors really try to navigate a deal? Like, what's true and what's just Internet? From what I was told and have been told even after the deadline is, like, Phoenix was shopping him. Like, hey, what can we get? And the Warriors were interested. Like, they, you know, Joe Laker wanted a star.

Yeah. Like, we know that. Like he won. There's a list of stars he wants, and KD was all the list, right? They were very interested in bringing them back. Depending on, you know, somewhere probably in the middle. I heard it was just conversations,

heard they had a deal. So usually this stuff is right somewhere in the middle, right? If Katie says, I would love to come back, I think it would have happened. And KD made it clear. He just wasn't, he wasn't interesting going back down that road. I get it. And they backed out.

Yeah. So, no, I heard it was very. very real. From what I've been told, it was very real. The Warriors were interested and Phoenix was interested and then something happened. Katie says no or they decided to give it more time. Something happened and they pulled back. But yeah, we almost had it. We almost had a reunion of 2017. I think that's just my my perception after hearing what I've been told. Well, I think it would have worked. I think this works better. And I do think, you know, I was joking with the staff today when I, when I was in college and you'd go out drinking with one of the football players, one of the big

tough football players that always gave you more courage, you know? And, and I think Jimmy, Butler's like a more talented Draymond where he just gives everybody a little more courage. Everybody's a little more aggressive because you don't want to let down Jimmy. You know, there's just certain guys. They're kind of badass guys. Like, you just don't want to let them down. Charles Oakley always had that. You just play a little harder and a little more physical because Jimmy's got your back. He's the bouncer a little bit.

So I think he, I think, I mean, KD, I don't think would have brought quite the energy or the physicality or, but I think Katie would have given you points. So, and I kind of feel like I've seen that. You know, it's really interesting. I think Steve Kerr's really smart. And he signed an extension.

when you go get Jimmy Butler, how much say does Steph have? I mean, Kerr has so much respect for him, and he should, because I still think LeBron got a heads up on Luca. I think he's been thinking about that since Mark Cuban sold the team. I thought, I thought LeBron sniffed around with Steph two years ago. He was interested in Yoka. Denver said no thanks.

And I think once Cuban sold the Mavericks, he started circling, sending messages. back channeling to Luca. And I think he's been on this thing. Steph is not as calculated as LeBron. But to me, do you think Steph said, Steve? Was it Lekam or did Steph have a say in Jimmy? I think Steph definitely had a say.

Like, it's him and Mike Dunleavy. Dunleavy's the one who made it happen. It's Mike Dunleavy. Because you know they, oddly enough, played together in Chicago. this is like the honest like buddy cop movie i covered my covered dunlevy in high school in jesuit in portland yes that's yeah yeah absolutely uh so the oddest buddy cop movie is who knew dunleavy and jimby butler would be tight to make this happen right but step step was first off off the top step was like we absolutely have to do something like we're

not running this back like i'm i'm i have a problem with that yeah uh and once Steve comes out with a mic in his face that says, we got to do something. This is not working. Like, that's, that's boggating. The question at that point was what, what do you do? So from what I was told, there's a conversation. Jimmy's excitement, you know, especially once he got the contract extension, helps a lot.

The only question that I ever heard in doing all the interviews and asking the question was, which Jimmy were you getting? Right. like that's that's the only question i think everybody understood who jimmy was and i do think stephen draymond because they're both up and a's they're like man i need somebody for the playoffs right that's the big deal and you know playoff jimmy is the thing they want they want playoff jimmy so he he definitely was in the mix i just think they needed to know they were going to get jimmy butler not the guy that they've been hearing warren with pat riley that

that was the thing. Once they got that, I feel like that was, that was enough for Steph. He just wanted something. He's been begging for something for at least two years now. And listen, Comingo was a good draft pick. Pods, Moody. They've got players. Bring Cominga back. They've got some depth.

I've said this. I think OKC would be a little bit privately terrified to face Butler and Steph and Draymond and Cominga and Pods and Kerr. And if they aren't, their fans would be terrified because them dudes I've been in that builder before. Yep.

How is Luca LeBron? You wrote an article on the Suffering Maverick fans. I mean, Kyrie gets hurt because they press them into more minutes. I mean, that's one of the unintended liabilities of that trade is when Luca left. He only had one real playmaker. I like Spencer did when he, but he's not the playmaker of Luca, obviously. So now Kyrie's got to play more minutes, have the ball more, stand the floor more. And at the end, his body, he's a small player.

he's been hurt before. I think some of it is just, it was just too taxing on his body. Let's, I'll get to that in a second. How do you view Luca and LeBron? How is that viewed in the Bay Area? A massive problem.

That's what it's, it's, where are the Lakers? Let's try to avoid that until the West Finals, right? In the same way, you know, Oklahoma City is like, I don't think Oklahoma City is scares

of the wars. They're just like, we just rather have them in the West finals if we're going to face them. Like, let's not do it in the first round. Right. So, I mean, the Lakers were already a problem, but big part of that is LeBron. Yeah. Like, they don't have anybody to guard LeBron. Like, ever since Iguadala, you know, declined from his premium self where he could do it. Like, you could throw Draymond on him, but you need Draymond in the back. They just haven't had anybody. Wiggins was okay at it, but, you know, it's still LeBron. Now, now you had another guy. It's basically another guy

who are a ball handling big bodied person who's difficult to match up with. So now the Lakers have two of the guys that the Warriors have a hard time guard. Now if they had one Wiggins, it'd be fine, right? If they had Wiggins with Butler,

it'd be a little bit better. But now you're asking Kamega to do it. You're asking Moses Moody to do it. You're also asking 35-year-old Jimmy Butler to do it. Right? And that's a lot. So that's why that's such a difficult matchup. The Lakers are a difficult

matchup for that reason. Denver's a difficult matchup because of Yokic, right, as he is with everybody. But the Warriors just don't have side. Yeah. So to me, the Lakers have become a team that like they probably want to, everybody else, I don't think they're worried about it all. But I think Lakers

and the Lakers, plus they can score. Yes. They can score like an insane amount of points. Even even though they're surprisingly good on defense right now. I don't know how much that's going to hold, especially in a matchup setting where you could just attack Luca and Reeves

when it's calculated right. We're like game three. We're going at Luca every time. So I don't know how that holds up, but they're getting 125. Like that's happening. So they're a problem. Like you can look at them in a bay. People in a bay know

the Lakers are a problem and you probably want to stay out of that. And they also have three play initiators because Austin Reeves, Luca and LeBron can all run the offense. And they all And all of them draw fouls. All of them draw fouls. They really do.

So when Dallas, they have Kyrie now. That's it. Now they have size down in Dallas. They have a good rotation. When they're healthy, lively, obviously Anthony Davis, Gaffir. Yeah, they got real size. They got great center rotation. They don't have any, you know, Kyrie's it.

And, you know, opening up a play. So the Lakers have a lot of players who can initiate, get their own shot. Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are all the new ways to get in on the action at Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA. Slams, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players, prop bets you can make on Draft Kings.

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What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to... We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And... Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I think, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's funny, Marcus, so I've watched so much football in my life. Obviously, a good baseball manager, they say can win you four games a year. It's mostly GM payroll pitching. And in football, you can see it's the coaching sport. It really matters. Urban Meyer goes to a college program. He can add six wins a year. Bill Parcells did that. You know, McVease, obviously, he's just beating people on Sunday, schematically. Basketball's different because the players control the league and very rarely is Steve Kerr, you know, slow down. I've got to play for you. That's what they're doing at Tom Isso at Michigan State. That's not the NBA. So what I do, what I tend to watch,

I tend to watch how you close a game and how you open a game. So closing a game, there was coaching. opening a game, there is a game plan. Right, guys are sitting around watching. You don't have a lot of prep time in the NBA. You talk about it at shoot around. You do about 10 minutes before the game. You have sort of a mission to get on front and use some matchup advantages. The Lakers start for six minutes of these games.

Marcus, they are so good early. Yeah, they're like Dobermans. They really are. Now, by the way, Steve Kerr was always the great coach out of half. He was the great third quarter. Third quarter coach. What are you hearing around the league on Redick when you talk to people? I know you cover the Warriors, but I just think you can see his excellence early and late in games.

Yeah, I think defensively is the part you hear where people are saying, like, wow, they're actually really good defensively. And the Lakers have places to go to attack. Like, you could attack Austin Reeves. You could attack LeBron, right? LeBron's been known to loaf on defense, but somehow they've managed to be good on defense, which, is they add Luca and get better on defense. And to me, that, like the adjustment piece, too, like, how fast can you shift philosophies? Do you have to stay on what?

Like game playing you said at the beginning? Do you have to stay on that because you said it at the beginning and hope it works? Or can you shift? Are your guys prepared to shift? That's what we're seeing from the Lakers that makes you be like, hey, how does Jay J.J. know what he's doing already. Like when you talk to people, they're like, you know what? The Lakers defense is pretty good.

Like, and then they lose AD and somehow managed to still get really good defensively. It's surprising people. Like, I don't think, you know, obviously we thought he was like a LeBron plant. We thought he was like basically like podcast nepotism if there's such a thing, right? Like he's like, but he's actually pretty good. Yeah. Like he's, he knows what he's doing. Now, now we'll see the, like, like,

Like, as you said, it's the management of personalities in the long run, right? It's how you, how you deal with this stuff. But he's got like the Dorian Fendi Smith, Rui Hachamor, right, Jackson Hays. He's got these players who, number one, are going to do what he says. And number two, they're trying to fight for a spot in the league. Yeah. Right? So they can go out and execute, right?

You're seeing him work these, it's these exterior pieces that are doing so well. That's the part where JJ's kind of showing his. his like ability. He knows when, when to go with Rory, when to switch out, when to go big. Like Jackson Hayes is not this good.

I don't know what's happening, but they're supposed to be done. You lose Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis wanted a big. Remember, that was a thing. The Lakers need a big. They don't get the big,

and they get rid of Anthony Davis. And somehow they're still managing. So if it weren't for what's happening in Detroit and J.B. Bickerstaff, we talk about JJ as coach in the year, which is kind of insane because they were just doing a podcast like a year ago. Yeah, well, I mean, you know,

some Jason kid came out pretty early. Steve Nash and Brooklyn was a bit of a mess, but I mean. Colleen, would you like to be an assistant coach who's been on the bitch for 15 years, wait for your shot watching these dudes walk in? Oh, yeah. But, you know, I mean, there is something to be said. I mean, JJ was on broadcast and podcasts,

and he sounded very erudite. Absolutely. And he spent seven. 17 years at league. Yeah, I mean, he, you know, Jason Kidd, similarly. These guys around basketball, they've got intuitive. Steve Kerr. Yeah.

Intuitive feel for it. So you wrote that article on the suffering Mavs fans. Do you think when Cuban, Cuban sold the team, Mark has a pretty good sense of business, timing, and exit strategy. Absolutely. Why do you think, why do you think Cuban sold? I tend to think everything, Mark's again, Mark is very good at seeing around corners. I can disagree with them sometimes on loving NFTs in Bitcoin or politics or whatever it is. But it just feels like Cuban sold the team and it hasn't felt the same since he sold it.

You know, the fact, like when he sold it, I thought, is this a Vegas move? you sell it to the Vegas billionaire, the Adelson family, right? The wife of the famous, you know, Vegas casino guy, the one who got fleeced by Mark Davis, oddly enough for the Raiders. But I thought it's just a Vegas move.

And one of the things that I've learned from Joe Lakeb and the whole A's debacle, because you know Oakland has lost its teams. And it's all boils down to, you got to be ready to spend 1.5 to 2, million on the stadium. You just have to be able to do that. And if you're not ready to do that, now you're relying on your local municipality to come up with the money.

And I'm like, I'm thinking Cubans are, do I want to spend a $2 billion stadium or cash out and get my billions? Right. It's the opposite move of what John Fisher did with the A's. Sell the team to get billions or no. Now he's playing in like a high school stadium in Sacramento because they don't want to sell. that that's what I thought. I don't think at any point he thought Luca was going to be traded.

You know why? You know why he didn't think that? Because you don't trade Luca. Right. Ever. At least you don't do it at 25 years old, right? So I wouldn't be surprised if Cuban knew that it's going to be tough to get the stadium we need. Because remember he, remember when he bought that team?

And he was right, it was like, oh, they got the new fancy, the lockers and they treat the players top-not. Like, you've got to be top-notch now. And that's $2 billion. That's $2 billion. You just got to have $2 billion. I think he saw it might be tough to get a stadium.

Let me sell it. Let me take the profit instead of digging a bigger hole. And if that means the team goes to Vegas, like that, it's off my hands, so to speak. That's the best I can think of. But I agree with you. One million percent Cuban. Cubant saw this seven steps away. He was on it.

Well, you know, I'll throw my, I'll throw my LeBron theory at you. LeBron has always avoided a mess. So he leaves Cleveland. He plays in the Olympics and he's like, man, I got to play with good players. Dan Snyder can't get me. He goes to Miami four finals. Wade and Bosch, especially Wade is struggling to play back to backs. He bails.

He's right. He goes to Cleveland, gets the title. Kyrie's like, I don't want to be here. We were maxed out. He leaves. A second time, this time everybody's good with it. He goes to the Lakers. People loved Lonzo, Ball, Kyle Kuzma.

He didn't. He got rid of him. Brings in AD. Ady was great. And I believe LeBron realized as he aged about two years ago that he could not be on every possession, every night, the lead initiator. And Austin Reeves is more of a three or a four than a two. And so I think he was looking for Steph, two years.

years ago. And he made overtures and went back channels with Steph and stuff like, man, I'm, I'm good here. And then I think he was interested in Yokic. And I think it happened to be like, do you want to come here instead? That's right. I think that was part of the conversation. How about Brian, you could come here. He knew Yokic could also make the game easier for him. Denver's not interested. And I think when Cuban sold the Mavericks, I think LeBron went back channels, thought to himself, here's the moment. I'm going to make sure he knows. I like him a lot.

I think eventually he made it known upstairs. Guys, I'm getting older. I cannot play 40 minutes. I love AD to death, but I can't be the play initiator every damn time down the floor. I can't do it. I mean, there are times now when you watch him, now Austin hasn't played in a couple games,

when Luca and Austin are there together. I mean, it's like LeBron's got a smile on his face. He's floating in the wing. And by the way, he's got more... And he's earned that, by the way. He's earned the right to be. Absolutely. But I do think, I think, and this is not a criticism.

I think LeBron's the smartest player in league history, arguably in a short list. I think he's calculated. And the idea that he just woke up one day and went, well, what do you know? We got Luca, the perfect teammate. I don't buy that. I just, I mean, Marcus, I'm not a tinfoil hack. guy. But LeBron is too smart. He's too much of a businessman. I think he made, he let everybody know Luca is the target. You think I'm nuts? I don't. I just wonder how you keep that quiet.

Because one thing Brian hasn't been great at is keeping all this stuff quiet. So I, Occam's razor come into play. What's more likely that LeBron pulled this from behind the stream, which I'm not saying it's off the table. or Nico Harrison was like, I got the move that's going to make me a legend. I don't know. They're both kind of wild. Did he really just do this, though? Did Nico just decide, you know what?

I'm going to call Rob Polinko, we're going to make this happen. No, I don't. That's almost as crazy. Well, so I had this discussion two nights ago at dinner with a friend. I said, you know, the star players in the last CBA, they're getting, like, outrageous us money. And I have no problem with it, but they're making significantly more than Patrick Mahomes. And I think it's different. I think billionaires have no problem writing $40 million annual checks. But Marcus, when that check is $75 million annually, okay, I'm looking at everything.

I'm looking at everything. I'm looking at your injuries. I'm looking at your as a teammate. Can I ask some things in the-perish choices? Yep. And I think, I think that ownership group said this is back-to-back camps he's missed. He's been hurt since Christmas. He doesn't always do it. He leaves the minute the season's over. He doesn't do much off-season. I think ownership made it clear.

We're not sure if we're going to 350 large on this. Yeah, very clear though, right? Because I don't think, if they weren't thinking that way, Nico couldn't do it, right? They had to be thinking that way. Right. The question is, like, the same investigation they do for like to see if he's worth the 75 million a year,

that investigation might at some point tell them, yeah, he might actually be worth it still, right? Like, did their investigation not include this part? Like, hey, I wonder, I wonder if we're going to have to give money back for season tickets if we do this. Right. Like, did they stop the investigation at Luca or did they analyze, here's what a magnificent, magnetic NBA superstar the value they bring to a franchise.

And they decided it was less than 350. But what Lucas, what is Luca worth to the bavs? Like, that's the part I don't understand. I agree with you. They're probably like, yeah, 350 is a lot. Like, that might be too much. But like, if you analyze Steph Curry,

like, what's his value? Oh, God. To the worst. Like, you should, like, that's the part of like, Luca is 25. You got them 10 more years. What's the value?

Also, though, Steph is a domestic product. Steph has multiple titles. He's incredibly likable. Mr. Community. He is a perfect face of franchise, absolutely. And whereas Lucas, you know, Little International, hookah bars, loves his beverages, leaves the city the minute the season's over. Like, there's, and by the way, really not in great shape.

Although I'll say this, he looks better in the last 10 days than he did in Dallas. I mean, he's gotten tighter. It's the LA lifestyle. Yeah. And the shape. is not nothing because they didn't win a championship partly because of it. Yeah, he was, he was gassed at the end. He was done.

He was done. Yeah, absolutely. So that's not, so to like, I understand that to say, hey, you got, we got to the finals. And part of the reason we didn't win is because our best player was done. And the response to that is, I'm still not going to get the shape. That's probably a little bit troubling. Because the guys we know who are in the position, Luca is if that happens,

they're coming back in shape. They're like, I'm never feeling that again, right? Like, we're going to work out like crazy. And I'm coming back, you know, you got that question me about pens. That's how much shape I'm going to be in after getting sunned by Jalen Brown in the NBA finals, right?

So the fact that his response was to be the same guy, I can see that being troubling. Still, Colin, like he's Lucas. Like at some point, the receipts just got to matter more. Well, I said, I said, I wouldn't have made the deal. But if you get, if you, if you would have been able to corral three first round picks, AD, and Austin Reeves, then I wouldn't have done it, but I'd sleep on that considering a bigger bounty. Yes. Three first, AD, and Austin Reeves, because Austin then can be a number two play initiator to Kyrie.

Irving. So Kyrie doesn't have to do every. That to me is such a just, it's just bad strategy. Spencer Dinwood, he's not going to be able to do that in a regular basis. So if I would get another, you mean, Austin's average an 18 a game. He can play, he can be a playmaker, three first and the best defensive player arguable in league. I sleep on that. And again, I wouldn't sleep on it if Luca was in great shape and Luca didn't have back-to-back calf injuries and miss camp. Then I don't. But there, you have to, you get to, to 75 million annually, I'm going to consider ankle turns. Like everything.

Like, I really need to see what's under your fingernails in that point. Now, I'm with you. A better bounty would make this a little bit more palatable. No question. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer's Streeter Side help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

Jenchen won. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the Lakers go into a really rough sled that they play, I think it's the Knicks. This airs tomorrow morning. They go up against the Knicks, the Celtics, the Bucks, a lot of road games, Denver, it's a rough sled.

What's it look like for the Warriors going forward? Where are their challenges? They're actually in a pretty good place from a schedule perspective. They got Brooklyn. They probably assuming they beat Brooklyn, but let's just assume they be Brooklyn. They come home for a long, like homestand. I mean, they get Milwaukee at home. They got two games left against the Lakers, but they're done with Boston.

They're done with Cleveland. They're done with the teams that give them problems. So they've got, they're sitting actually kind of pretty. They get Toronto and Phoenix. Their schedule is very doable. Like, it's very, they're in a good, place. Like, they're not like Cup Cape games.

There's not a lot of Charlottes, but it's a lot of those teams they should beat. The Sacramento's, right? The San Antonio's without winning. What did you make in New York watching them? What do you make of the Knicks? Nix is just disappointing, man. I'm going to give a pass because towns wasn't out there.

But for a team that can't shoot threes, they sure are jack a lot, but I don't like their will at the end. And I wonder, I wonder if Tibadoe has worn them down. Yeah. They, they, they, their will on the defensive. It has its limit. It has its limit. It can't just be Hartenstein.

They're just not as good. Yeah. You can break them defensively. And that's going to be troubling. Now, again, playoff basketball is different. It's half court to half court. It's matchup base. But I'm wondering, what are their legs like?

Like, what is their psyche like after, what is this year three, year four of Tibbs? And I don't know. like it's Guy Santos. It was Guy Santos cooking. Like, we're not talking about. Like, Steph was cool. Like, Jimmy Butler was okay, but they're getting outworked by guys who should be in a G league. Their will just break sometimes.

Like, if you watch the Knicks, they just decide to give up. And then it's like Brunson goes save us. So I don't, I mean, obviously Boston and Cleveland are at the top. But I'll tell you this. If I'm New York, I don't want them pistons in the first. round. I'll tell you that much. You know,

you don't want to see the business in the first round. That young, hungry team full of athletes who will in the fight. Yeah, nah, I don't know if they have the will.

So again, they didn't have town, so that's something, but I'm worried about the next team. I'm not quite Stephen A. Smith level worried, but I'm worried about the next team. Well,

I've watched them play Boston twice, and I've watched one of the Cleveland games, and they attacked Carl Anthony Towns in the picking roll. I mean, they just attack on a... I don't know. Tows is not going to solve this problem in the playoffs.

No. They might be able to score more, which will help you against some teams. Oh, Kat's talented. Yeah, he's talented. He's great. Yeah, no question. He'll go out and get you some buckets in the playoffs.

And he'll create some moments. But like this team, you know, if they get either Boston or Cleveland in the second round, I just don't know. And they have to get one of them. They have to get one of them, right? Yeah, they just don't. match. Cleveland is so a fixed.

Cleveland and Boston are the two best teams in the league. They can defend the rim. They can defend the perimeter. They've got scoring guards. They've got scoring wings. They're both efficient. They've got backups who can score. Yeah. Yeah. I always say, if Derek White is, some nights, the fifth best player on your team, that

is a, it's almost like they, you know, with the new taxes and the new ceilings and the way it works in the NBA. Second aprons. All the second apron shit. It's like Boston for about two years beat it. They've got a roster that you couldn't build right now. But they kind of grandfathered it in.

And they just got too many good players. Yeah. In Cleveland, man, that DeAndre Hunter trade was like unfair. They were already really good. They just got another. And that's the thing about all these guys. Like you got to be able to guard wings. And you look like you just listed like four people in Boston who could guard wings.

Cleveland just added another guy. They've got guys who can guard wings. That to me is going to be like, I'm not putting Oklahoma City in there yet because I want to see them in the playoffs guard wings or guard the explosive point guard. Like they've got the bodies. They got the stats right. They rank pretty well defensively. Playoffs are different monsters. Yeah.

It's just different. Yeah. And this Cleveland team, you've had Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, you know, last year they kind of disappointed us. Oklahoma City feels like Cleveland last year. Really impressive, but not quite ready to go on the road and give you A plus plus stuff from role players on the road. I think Cleveland's ready to do that now. Mowgli's better every year.

Yeah, and again, they've added the upgrade pieces too. Like they didn't just run it back with the same team. And that's what we're going to see about OKC. Maybe Shay is just that good where he figured it out. Like he felt it. They lost to Dallas. he went to work and got better. Maybe he's enough and Jalen Williams is enough next to him.

I just want to see it first because experience matters a lot, man. The playoffs are a different monster. Like if they get Yokic, I love Chet Holgren. What is he doing with Nicola Yokic? Like that's just going to be a tough. Like you got to have to fight. You got to fight out of that series. You know, Jamal Murray shows up.

It's over. You know, always show up. But when he does, it's pretty good, right? So that and Russ, you're like, you're going to have to fight to get out the West. So I'm curious about how the kind of fight Oklahoma City have. If they got it, they should be in the finals. If not, it's going to be a long offseason for Sam Presti because he's got like a bounty of stuff that's like,

at some point you probably need to cash in all these assets you're so famous for and get something, right? Go go get Janus then. If he can't win, like go do something. up with all that. Yeah. That's where Lucas should be. I'm like,

hey, give me all that stuff for Luca. That's right. That's what I'm like. He should be in Oklahoma City with my seven picks, three young players and defensive stoppers and all that. Like, if they got a win, otherwise Sam Preston needs to go in and cash in that winning ticket he's got or the winning tickets.

Well, I mean, every other NBA draft is, you know, fairly talentless. This past draft, it just, there's not a lot there.

So, like, you can have all these draft. picks, but what you have to do is when you get that every third draft when it's really deep, you got to go all in. And then, I mean, I couldn't tell you the last time we had great back-to-back drafts. That's just not the way it works anymore. You get like a good one, a bad one, a moderate one, a good one.

So I think okay, I think Presti's sharp. You know, it's, I worry about Holmgren long-term his body, but they got waves of players. You want to see Katie back there? It's interesting. J-MAC on my show today, I don't know if it's a very attractive place for KD, but I will say this. I don't know his relationship with Presti. If you're asking me if there's a dude that works, it's Oklahoma City and KD because he doesn't need the ball. He is catch and shoot and SGA needs the ball.

So, yeah, I mean, I'd catch in a lot of chips. That'd be a two-year experiment, but Jesus, him, Holmgren, SGA, Williams, Jesus. That is a lot of buckets. That's a lot of buckets. A lot of thin buckets, too. Marcus Thompson. Great seeing you, man. Love seeing you.

Likewise. Likewise. It's hard out here in these streets. I got my new assignment. I'm covering figure skating, world championships. For who? Let's go. For the athletic.

You are? I am an accomplished Olympic writer now, Colin. I was in Paris covering in track and field. and now I'm going figure skating. Can you imagine me at the figure skating? I'm in this thing. I'm out here, Colin. Wow, good for you.

Well, you're a great writer. So you've got the ability to do different things? I'm taking advantage of it now. I'm looking forward to this. So, yeah, yeah, let's go. Next time we're going to talk about the quad god in advance of the winter. I can't promise you that.

For the athletic, the very, talented Marcus Thompson. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for having me. My gosh. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to

David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Gentil win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. and she likes Clay.

Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.