The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Celtics BLOW OUT Mavs In Game 1!!!

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the Celtics blow out win in game 1 over the Mavericks They start with the massive game for Kristaps Porzingis,  why he was the difference maker, and why “small ball” only worked for the Warriors. (3:30) They agree that this was a massive win for Celtics coach Joe Mazzula (8:30) and Colin predicts Jaylen Brown will win MVP of the series (12:30).  They dissect the difference between the two teams and why Dallas was reacting, while Boston was setting the tempo for the game (19:00). Colin breaks down why the Mavs are limited when Kyrie is off whereas Boston has five guys that could be a #2 on any team (26:00). They credit Brad Stevens for taking a big swing and finding the right fit for Porzigis (31:30) and make their predictions for game 2 (39:00). Finally, they give their thoughts on the Lakers targeting Danny Hurley as their next head coach (43:00) and why the Lakers need to take a big swing as they transition into their next phase as LeBron heads into his final years in the league (53:00) (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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One no-sweat per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. I picked Boston in six. I thought they would win. That was my draft king's pick.

I thought Jalen Brown would play well and the Boston Celtics would win, although Kyrie didn't offer much of anything, and I thought he'd have a decent assist night. You know, my takeaway is the small ball revolution in the NBA was really a bunch nonsense. It was Steph Curry. And Draymond Green, who could play big. Everybody tried to duplicate it for about four years. Then everybody's like, Houston got kind of close. Size matters. And Porzingis on both ends, altering shots on the defensive end. He was the initial unicorn. 7-4, dribble, shoot. There's nothing you can do. It's why Wembe will take over the league next year at the all-star break is that this is a big man's game. You know, in the end,

NFL, you know, Bill Parcells and the late great George Young was a general manager for the Giants. And his whole theory was, when in doubt, just draft big guys. Like big, beat small. And in the NBA, length and size is so important. And my takeaway, if that's the poor Zingas I get in the series, Dallas is in trouble. You know, one of the things I said, they have such a mature offensive team. And they're all a little different. I mean, Tatum tonight, was more assist guy than he was score guy. And I said, you know, Tatum can have a bad night in this series, and they could win by 15. Kyrie as an off night, they get shelled.

And that to me is the difference in the series. And I said that before I knew what I was getting with Porzingas. But I thought, you know, the size of Porzingis, the matchup problem, you know, Dallas came into this thing, let's feel it out. And very quickly, it's like, yeah, we've got, we're going to have to go back to the drawing, board on this. And then Porta Zingas sits for a while. But I would start with that, is that, you know, if I got six guys who could all drop 20, man, that's in a, in a, with the apron now, it's hard to get a third star. The league doesn't want it anymore. They want you to draft

and develop. That's what the whole thing, legal pay a lot of money. They don't want you going and cherry picking stars. Boston, this, this is an absurdly deep offensive roster. I mean, you go look at Porzingis last year. He was the guy for Washington. You're like, well, that, for a terrible team, that's an all-star level player. Derek White's a five. Derek White's a two on probably 30% of the teams in the league. So I thought tonight was a little bit of what I thought is that Dallas cannot withstand

a bad Luker, Kyrie Knight. Boston, if you told me a Tatum and Derek White didn't play well, Boston could still win. And so I just start with that, is that Porzingis's size, he was the initial unicorn. It's a problem. There's not a lot you can do. It's a big problem. Yeah, I thought this game was a brilliant showcase of what makes Christopps Porzengis awesome and how he elevates the ceiling of this Boston team.

First of all, he's their only legitimate rim protector. Like Al Horford's a really interesting player and does a lot to help this team on both ends of the floor. But Christop's Porzengis is just a mountain of a man. that is really difficult to finish over at the rim. In addition to that, he brings this, there are a lot of guys that can shoot in the NBA at the center position. There are very few guys at the center position that are like lasers. Like, you just can't leave them open.

And one of my biggest reasons why I picked Boston is Dallas's defense is very much geared up at the rim as like a rim protection team with Gafford and lively. That's why they were good against Minnesota. Exactly. You know, they're big. Exactly. and they have some good perimeter defenders, but they don't have a bunch of good perimeter defenders. And so when you can really spread them out and lively and Gafford can't solve problems at the rim as rim protectors,

it just challenges the weak points of Dallas's offense. And then the second piece of it with Porzingis that goes beyond the three point shooting, one of the easiest ways to counter a ball screen is to switch it because the whole point of the ball screen is you can get downhill because the guy has to chase over the top of a screen. But if you switch it, it shuts it down. But what makes Porzingis such a valuable weapon is if you switch it, you're putting your smaller player onto Porzingis. And he can just walk him down to 15 feet from the basket and they can toss it back to him and he can go to work. He showed it all in that game one. He was protecting the rim.

He was hitting trailing threes in transition. He was hitting spot up threes in help defense situations. He was hitting pick and pop threes. He was beating switches by posting up around the elbow. It was everything that makes Porzingis great. And I'm glad you pointed this out because everyone just accounted for Porzingis as like available and healthy. But like it's really hard to go 30 something days without playing NBA basketball and then to walk in the NBA finals. Like I don't think I don't think we're like it just was so impressive the way he immediately looked comfortable and immediately started thriving.

But a big part of that is he is the guy. He's the key that solves all of the issues that. Boston could have had against this Dallas defense. He unlocks it all. I was I was just completely blown away by him. Yeah. The other thing that jumped out, the big winner tonight, too, is Joe Missoula. So last year he looked a little over his skis, a little bit over his skis. You know, the Spolstra matchup, you're like, oh boy, this is a mismatch. So they strengthen his staff. Brad Stevens, you know, enhances the staff. Not only did he really target Dallas's liabilities defensively. Like, he went right after him. That's, that's game prep. But when Dallas made a surge in

the third quarter, he calls a timeout, and Boston goes on like a 14-0 run. That's coaching. That's Steve Kerr stuff. You know, the Warriors come out of halftime, and they always go on these crazy runs. That's where coaching matters, spolstra late, Kerr outside of halftime. And so I thought from the opening game plan to that timeout, re-energizing his team, making a couple of changes, and just putting it away. Because you start, watching Luca hit a couple. Boston had several really ugly, sloppy possessions. What you do when you get ahead by 25? You just mail in stuff. You know, you just don't, you can't stay engaged for two hours and 45 minutes. You just naturally get sloppy. Boston did. Luca gets them back in it.

And then all of a sudden the timeout, and I thought, okay, that's, that's the difference this year. I don't think Missoula calls a timeout last year. They go in a 14-0 run. First of all, they didn't have poor Zingis and Drew Holiday. They're a better offensive. team. Everybody feels just Jalen Brown just gets a little better every year. But that's a thing. Like that was one of the things I worried about this with Boston. I said,

I don't know if Missoula is a good coach. I think he's competent in the east. Is he a good coach? Tonight I was like, that's good coaching. That's noticeably good coaching because Jason kids are much better coach than four years ago. So that jumped out to me. You can respond to that if you want. Yeah. So with, I thought

the time out, like that's an important part of coaching that doesn't really get talked about much. We talk so much about personality management and tactical approach and all these different things. But like, actually managing basketball games is one of the most important parts of the coach's responsibility. You have to feel when things are teetering in time when you're going to kind of step in and try to write the ship, so to speak. And Boston just had a really ugly offensive stretch there that looked very similar to a lot of the nasty offensive stretches we've seen from Boston over the course of the season. they were settling for quick shots, quick threes, isolation threes.

Immediately out of that timeout, it was abundantly clear that Missoula was harping on the fact that they needed to get back to driving and kicking. Because when they beat someone off the dribble and they pass two or three times and it's a wide open catch and shoot three, it's a really good shot with really high value. When they run up the floor in transition and Al Horford just throws a transition wing three off the side of the rim, like without running any sort of offense, that's when they can get carried away. then I'm glad you mentioned the game plan because I thought Missoula's game plan was brilliant to start this game. One of the specific things he did was instead of putting Horford and Porzingis onto Gafford and Lively their centers, he put him on to PJ Washington and Derek Jones Jr.

And what that does, which is really fascinating, and by the way, this is a shout out to Jason Tatum because Tatum's defensive versatility is what gives him the ability to guard centers. He's big enough to guard a center underneath the basket. But because of that, Derek Jones Jr. and PJ Washington, when they're setting screens for Luca and rolling to the basket, they're not the same type of vertical spacers that can catch lobs like Daniel Gafford and Derek lively. When they pop to the three point line, they aren't very good above the break three point shooters.

And so I thought it really threw Dallas for a loop offensively that they didn't know how to attack. And then to add another layer to it, the spacing gets all janky. Because even when Luca and PJ are when PJ's rolling or Derek Jones is rolling or popping, when Luca's getting downhill, now Tatea, and lively and Gafford and all those guys, they're just like congregated around the basket, just messing up the spacing.

I thought it was a really smart defensive game plan from Missoula. I thought he managed the game really well. I thought that was a really good call out. What did you think of Jalen Brown tonight? I thought he did an amazing job. I picked him to be MVP of the series. So I feel like Jalen Brown more than any Celtic, I know exactly what I get.

I get tremendous athleticism, defensive pressure. He's always engaged. plays with a little chip, like he finished at the rim. He gives you about one of those a game. And I feel like every year his offensive game gets a little more refined. I don't think he's, you know, maybe aesthetically as naturally as fluid as a Tatum, maybe not as dynamic as Ant, doesn't have just the offensive skill level of Aluka.

But what he is is he's just a really high IQ, intense, increasingly refined. energized player. He's strong. He's got like a de-weighed body. He's strong. He'll lean on you on the defensive end. I think Jalen's a classic sort of kind of quiet. You know, he doesn't get

chatty. He'll always be underappreciated because he doesn't ask to be stared at. He does a lot of little stuff. He's really good with his body. Really good at constantly like he knows he's in great shape. He knows he can wear you down. Like Jalen in a seven game series is the kind of player that could get stronger. He like D. Wade was like that.

D. Wade liked it. D. Wade would be on the floor constantly and you're like, just didn't affect him. It's almost like a football player in basketball. He liked the physicality, a pitcher that's better sixth inning on. And when I watch Jalen Brown, I just feel like I get the exact same guy, maybe in the best shape of the top three percent of the league in shape, physicality. and you know something that's what I didn't get from because I want to pivot it to this so I write notes during games

a handful of notes and one of the notes I put in the first half is where are the assists so when Kyrie's not hitting okay I need assists you gotta give me I felt like tonight was like Lucas turn Kyrie's turn Lucas turn

I thought there were I thought the crowd affected Kyrie he got a little into his head I didn't feel if he wasn't hitting his shots, he wasn't doing anything else. Whereas when Jalen Brown's not hitting his shots, I still feel I get a complete player, a completely engaged, energized player. When you're a great offensive player and you're not hitting shots, I help us feel like offensive players can get a little moody, you know,

they can just kind of get out into their feels. I never feel that with Jalen. So I thought Kyrie and I just didn't get, forget the shooting, he was off. I didn't feel like got enough energy from Kyrie. That was my take. No, I 100% agree. I thought in the second half, he was missing shots. But in the first half, like, he was taking bad shots.

Like, he was kind of forcing the issue. He had some bad misses in that first half. He shot one off the side of the backboard. Like, he got blocked into ball screen. Like, it was just, he was just kind of forcing the issue. I agree with you. I think some of the situation with the booze and just the intensity of the moment got to him a little bit.

Yeah. And you're right. Like, that's the thing. Like, one of the, to bring it back to Jalen Brown, like that to me is what's fascinating about Boston's roster build. You don't have Derek White, but before the halfway point of 2022. You don't have Drew Holiday before this year. You don't have Porzingis.

Suddenly you need him to be like an offensive engine next to Tatum. And that'll shine a light on some of his shortcomings as an offensive initiator. But because there's so much offensive talent on this team, he can be kind of like pointed and shot in a very specific area where he's great. And like I thought he ripped Lucas. in the back court twice in the first half just with ball pressure. I thought in general, just him being a pest on Luca was just a huge pain. He was in help side making blocks at the rim defensively.

He's just, he's the one guy on the roster that's actually like a true top tier athlete. Like Tatum's really big. Yes. And he's also like a good athlete. But like Jalen Brown is like an actual top tier NBA athlete. So when he's allowed to focus on just being a wrecking ball, it allows him to kind of channel his strengths in his best areas and he can have success. Whereas with Kyrie, they desperately need him to be great offensively in order for him

to bring the level of impact that they need from him. And as far as the ASISCO that you brought up, I do think a big part of that was Boston's defensive game plan. You could tell the fact that they were not allowed to, they were not able to bring lively and Gafford into ball screens as easily. You can tell that kind of threw them for a loop. And I'm going to dig into the film and try to find some answers, but I'm really curious to see how Dallas tries to counter that over the course of the series,

because you're right. It did turn into kind of your turn, my turn type of basketball with Luca and Kyrie, and they're going to have to find a way to loosen that up. Yeah, I remember seeing Jalen Brown at Cal when the PAC 12 was a conference, and my takeaway was cut. You know, Pac-12, he's like an athlete. You're like, this guy, is he playing the football team? Like, this guy is just cut.

and he felt a little stiff. And then Brad Stevens, you know, the college coach gets him, and he just gets more fluid and more fluid. And same thing with Missoula. I just feel like there's certain guys in the NBA that have made themselves into great players. I don't think coming out of Cal, I would have thought he would be this good offensively. He just makes himself like, I don't know the numbers in front of me. I feel like the first several years he was just like two and a half.

three points better every year. And he just, you can see the work he put into it. You can see it from his, you know, his cardio, his build. Yeah, and, you know, a little bit like D. Wade, he's not a naturally brilliant shooter, but he ends it with 25 a lot. And he's playing on, you know what I mean? Some guys just, they just end up. The points, like Jalen's points are memorable.

If he has 27, you remember the points. They're big points. They're points at the rim. They're steals and dunks. something else that jumped out to me that I wrote down is that, you know, over the course of a series, obviously Dallas will come out and have huge energy in the first quarter of Game 2. They're going to come out with their hair on fire. And Dallas is going to have to match that.

But there are some things like, where does lively fit in this series? Like, I think Boston players will all take turns fitting wonderfully in this series. They'll all get their shots. Tatum will score more points in Game 2. But there are a couple of Dallas players that I think you don't want to play a series and you're reacting to Boston. You want to make Boston try to react to you. And I watched a couple of times tonight I scribbled down like Dallas is just reacting. But Boston's setting the tempo.

Boston's doing what they want. Boston is dictating all the terms. Dallas is just kind of reacting, counter punching. And then if Kyrie's not hitting shots when you're counterpunching, you're going to get blown out. So there are some matchups in the series. I'm like, okay, Luca and Kyrie both have to play well. I don't know what is Lively going to be an offensive player. Like, you know, Lively can be a great rim defender. Well, if Porzingis is going to go to the perimeter and Horford's on the bench much of the series, what is Lively's role? Like, what is he going to do? So I, in my notes, I just kept feeling like Dallas just reacted all night.

only in that brief third quarter run, when the solid just got sloppy, did I feel like Dallas seized control? And it was just sort of Luca. Well, to put it simply, the reason why they're in that reacting position is because Boston's core set game plan is clearly better than Dallas's kind of core set game plan. Like, the natural way they wanted to come into this series playing heavily favors Boston. And so Dallas is going to have to figure out a way to adjust. I actually think Lively is a super valuable piece for them on the defensive end because of his ability to switch out onto the perimeter and guard a little bit. He picked up some fouls in the second half where he just basic fundamental stuff.

He didn't keep his hands vertical. He kept like kind of coming down on the player that was attacking him. But on the offensive end, you're right. One of the things that gets tricky is if he can come set a ball screen and then roll hard to the rim and catch lobs, then he's a real threat. But if you can't bring him into a ball screen because he's got Tatum on him and they're switching, then suddenly he's just standing in the dunker spot. And they're going to have to find some ways to counter that. I think an easy one is to just incorporate him in the action.

There are ways to run ball screens with three players. So I would have lively set the screen. And then as soon as they switch, I would just back screen for lively and try to see if you can get him cutting downhill that way. They're going to have to find ways to get those bigs moving towards the rim. Because if they're just standing there in the dunker spot, they're not getting enough offensive rebounds. They're not cleaning up enough lobs underneath the basket. They're not getting enough offensively out of that position. You saw a little bit in this game, too, where they just went to Kleba, because Kleba can shoot.

And so they go to Kleba at the five, so at least they can space the floor a little bit. Maybe that's the direction this goes. If they can't figure out, if they can't figure out how to use lively in Gafford, then they go to, and they have to lean into Kleba and play small, that would be a really big issue. Because now you're taking one of the foundational parts of Dallas's offense, which is their rim-running bigs and their lob game, and you're just sidelining it. Right. So it's tricky, but again, this is what Boston does to you. This is why it's such a tough matchup. And like, it's super fascinating to me because this has been kind of the theme of this playoff run is like how different teams match up with each other.

And Boston is uniquely equipped because of Tatum to neutralize the lob game. And then on the other end of the floor, they're uniquely equipped to attack the weak points in Dallas's offense. How many defense? How many times tonight did you see Tata or like Luca end up on a switch on one of the guys? guys. And then the Boston player would just drive right around Luca and then bring another guy in and pass past wide open three. Like, yeah, that's an issue. Like in the last round, when Luca would get switched on to Anthony Edwards, he'd have an easy job, like, just play up on him. Because if he beats you off the dribble, no one's scared to go bear. So lively and Gafford are just waiting underneath the basket to help you on the backside. That's not how it's going to be in this series. Luca's going to have to contain the basketball. It's going to be a challenge for him. And so I'm really,

really fascinated to see how the matchups kind of shake out. I will say this, and I want to kick it to you just kind of moving forward in the series. I, there were a lot of things that went Boston's way tonight. They came out, hair on fire, shot extremely well, a Dallas shot very poorly. Luca and Kyrie both really struggled for the most part. I thought Luca put up his points, but he always does. But like he, I thought in the key portions of the game, he struggled. And so there is a very good chance that in game two Boston doesn't shoot as well and that Dallas shoots better and that Kyrie and Luca play better. So I think game two is going to be

a really close game and I think it's going to come down to crunch time and I think it's going to be one of the first pivot points of the series. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out

on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think this is going to be an offensive series. I just, you know, again, the NBA would prefer you don't have four or five. veteran offensive pieces. Like, think about this. Tatum, Tatum's a one. Porzingis on bad teams

is a one or a one A. Jalen Brown on lesser teams is a one or a one A. Derek White's a two on lesser teams. And if you look at Drew Holliday, when Chris Middleton was hurt, he was a two last year for Milwaukee.

Okay, that's like five guys that could be a two or a one. We may not see a lot of that. Even if on a Denver, Gordon's really an energy defensive guy who can score, but you don't view him in that role. I like KCP. He's not a two on any team in the league, even the bad teams. So you get to a point with Boston where I'm like, the league is trying to avoid that. They like the OKC model, get draft picks, build, develop, you know, just that's what the NBA wants.

They don't want you to go and cherry pick people. I think the NBA loves the Knicks. You know, if you have to move a Randall to get a Paul George, whatever. that's fine, but they don't want this accumulation of like five guys. Like I watched tonight and I thought, you know, Dallas played old Clippers, figured it out quickly. Young OKC. I didn't pick them to win.

Good series. But Oklahoma City's got a little Boston in it. They can spread you out. You know, they're difficult. Young, not as refined Boston. And I start watching this tonight and I'm like, you've got to come. kind of pick your poison with Boston. You really do.

Like, you know, I kept saying Indiana is so terrible defensively. Yeah, but Boston's really good offensively. And you're just like, come on, you got five guys that could be a two. I mean, I don't think most, if you're a casual, people don't understand how good Derek White is. He's like all NBA defense.

He's long. He's smart. He can shoot. You know, his plus minus, his net rating. It's like, I think Boston, I think Dallas is going to have their hands full. I just think you got to just, a little bit when you play Boston, you got to cross your fingers a little. I mean, tonight, Tatum wasn't scoring a lot. Porzingis was unstoppable.

I just, I don't want to overreact, but God, when's the last, I mean, Boston has just rolled through the league since October. I mean, at some point, how many times have I seen them win by like 22 this year? I just, I don't overreact, but it's like when poor Zingis is hitting, okay, I'm kind of screwed a little bit. There's matchup issues everywhere. No, you're absolutely hanging on and hoping that one, they miss shots and two, they play stupid basketball. Like, you're actively hoping that they do that because I think we all agree. Which they did for about three minutes in the third quarter. Yeah, they did to start the third quarter and then we got to the time out.

And like to that point, like, that's what's what's kind of fascinating. I don't think anybody disagrees that Boston's ceiling is higher than everybody's. It was always just about their kind of maturity and their ability to consistently reach that ceiling. What you brought up, I think, is really fascinating. And I've been thinking about this a lot over the course of the last week. Anybody could have traded for Porzengis. Anybody could have traded for Drew Holiday. Or Kyrie.

Or Kyrie. Boston already had the most talented roster in the league last year. That was something I said consistently. Now, they didn't live up to that potential, but like they were all, Derek White, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Al Horford, and Marcus Smart. That was already, in my opinion, an incredible top five. And Brad Stevens looked at this and was like, nope, not enough. And what's crazy here is like, if they end up hoisting the trophy, which you and I both believe they will, like, I think a good portion of the credit has to go to Brad Stevens for basically being like,

I've got a couple of flawed stars. these guys need a ton of support. Obviously, we're about to head into the CBA. We're going to have all these new restrictions. Let's put it all in this year. And let's see if we can make a little bit of a run. And like, that's the thing. Like Boston outbid everybody for Christops.

They outbid everybody for Drew Holiday. And I can't help but think about your kind of overarching philosophy, which is like teams that take risks, you know, they're the ones that usually end up at the end of the day with the trophy. Yeah, I mean, if you can go to the trade. Deadline, the Kyrie move, those are big swings. Those are big swings by Dallas. And, you know, Porzing is, you know, basketball is really interesting because it's, the players come into the league much younger and generally much less mature. And so if you get into the wrong team or the wrong spot, you can get kind of a bad reputation. Porzing is his reputation. I mean, his game's different now. He's much more perimeter than. He's a wrong spot. He's a wrong spot. He can get kind of a bad reputation. Porzingas his reputation. He's much more perimeter. early when he would pound the ball. And so Porzingis got a reputation like bad guy, bad locker room guy. All right. Then he goes to Washington and he gets a fresh start. He moves outside,

shoots more, less pounding the ball. The league becomes more analytic. People can show him real data. And you're like, oh, okay, that's a little bit, that's a little bit of the unicorn. And then Boston, Brad Stevens, seizes on it and says, you know what, with our really good room, he doesn't have to be a one or a to here. He can on nights. And so I think sometimes in the NFL, if you come into the league at 23, and by 26, you're kind of an idiot. Like, you just can't figure stuff out. I'm kind of done with you. You got to be careful in the NBA. Basketball is a very individual culture. AAU. It's sort of about getting yours, showing off, letting the world see how much talent you have. If you get a bad opening locker room, Washington for 20 years, you get labeled, you know, bad guy, doesn't compete.

You know, because an NBA locker room is so small, a really talented guy that's distracted can really ruin a locker room. Hell, in baseball, if you're a schmuck and you go to the bullpen, you don't even sit in the dugout. Like in football, you splinter off at halftime or at practice with your unit. So I think, like, Kyrie's reputation earned, Dallas took a shot. A.D., when he was in New Orleans, it was like dad, bod, lazy, doesn't want to play hurt. I thought he was sensational the last year and a half.

So these NBA guys, if you just make a judgment based on their first, like, three years, you can leave a lot of stuff on the editing room floor. Like, you can't watch poor Zingis tonight. it's almost a revelation. It's like, oh, this is exactly what he was. This is what people thought he would be. He was the pre-Wembe pre-Hongru. This is what people said, you can't stop him. So, you know, and I guess back to your initial point is that these two GMs took big swings on guys. And Porzingis was thought of as a bad locker room guy. That was his rep four years in the league. Well, he hasn't affected this locker room at all. I mean, you can see the way the players, the Celtic players, freedom. They like him. You know what I mean? And it's just part of their kind of unified effort. So basketball football cultures are very different. There's a lot of things about the football culture I like, but you have to be very, you can't be as judgmental in basketball. You're getting 19-year-old kids. Jesus. The difference between 19 and 24 is a human being.

You know, once you get into your 41 to 47 is the same guy. 19 to 23, I got a lot of kids. It's a different human. And Porzing is. and I was like team guy. I mean, engaged defensively guy, cheering on teammate guy. So I, you know, Brad Stevens saw that. And Brad knows it because he was a college coach. He sees these guys mature.

He knows they change. My take. Yeah, there's quite literally been zero complaint about Porzian Gis in the entire experience in Boston. You know, it's funny, I went on with Grant Paulson in D.C. on radio earlier today. And he asked me just some questions about the wizards going into the offseat. And one of the big things I kind of feel passionately about is this specific thing you're bringing up, which is I feel like a lot of people are out on Jordan Poole right now. And it's like he's young. And then he won a championship when he was really young. So of course it went to his head. He got a little bit off the rails over the following couple of seasons. I have a feeling that Jordan Poole when he's 27 is going to be a really good basketball player. You know what I mean? And to your point, like it's like before I did this for a living, I I worked in real estate and I was on the investment side and you just completely change the way you

look at homes more towards what they could be rather than what they are. And I think that's a really interesting kind of like approach for GMs, especially in these big market teams that are typically operating above the cap. Because from there, you're not going to get a top seven draft pick, right? So like, how do you find talent beyond that? And like a big one is look for guys who were in the lottery that failed at previous destinations because they were in the lottery because they were viewed to have exceptional baseline talent, right? But they failed in those original destinations because of any number of factors, immaturity, circumstance, leadership, you know, anything, right? Even an injury potentially, right? And that's the thing is like, those are the guys

that you can kind of find real opportunity. I feel like Rui Hachamuro was that for the Lakers, There's a guy kind of in a bad organization in Washington, and then they find a role for him in LA, and suddenly it works. Like these, a PJ Washington playing for a terrible Charlotte Hornets team, it's like, let's bring you into this winning circumstance and give you a job that is more suited to your talents, and let's see what you can do. And so in general, I think it's really fascinating how these above the cap teams

have to kind of look for the investment type of NBA players that kind of more fit within their specific scheme. Well, think about a lot of the guys that come in and they're mature. A lot of them have stayed in Villanova guys. Okay, because they're three-star guys. So they stay in college. They're hard coached. They come in more mature.

But a lot of the AAU stars and the G League guys, their NBA coach is their first real grown-up. Like the kid that Houston got, is it Jalen Green? Like when you first watched him, you're like, he got a lot of talent, but he's all over the place. He didn't know to play basketball. And then in year two, you're like, oh, he's being coached. Yeah. Like, he's off ball. He can actually help the team.

Well, what would he know? You know, it's like you just, you don't know what you don't know. So I think a lot of when you watch these teams that do the little things well, the Knicks, they have a lot of guys that played a lot of college basketball. So they're just like they're 27 going on 34. And then you get these guys that are super talented, lottery picks one and done. At 27, they're 23. Like, they just haven't been coached.

They haven't had an Izzo. They haven't had a Jay Wright. And that, I always said, that's the value of college coaching is, and now there's NIL. I think there's value in saying, you know, I'm going to stay for a sophomore year of college in a really good program. Somebody is really on my ass. And I can make decent money here. I can make it at the G League.

And you're part of something. If you're part of Villanova or Kansas, you're really part of a community. You're part of a campus. And that's a real, that's, I mean, that's different people, different races, religions, different classes. It's hard. It's challenging. And so I think, I just think the NBA is different.

You have to be careful about labeling and judging. Now, there are players like DeAngelo Russell, this is what he is. Yeah. Right? Like, it's been established, okay? I'm done trying to figure out the Rubik's Cube. Like, this is what he is. But I think Porzingis is, God, you know, it was almost tonight watching him.

play. Like he had that kind of, that devilish grin a couple of times. Oh, yeah, he had the smile going. You guys aren't stopping me. I'm good. Yeah. And it's, you know, that's basketball. You could do it. There are times when, when you get hot and you just, and you have size advantages and matchup advantages. I think game two will be really close and really, really competitive. I think it will be, I think Dallas will come out and play much better. I mean, if I'm Dallas, my takeaway is we got to get physical. we've got to put bodies on people. We have got to, and I think the officials tend to, I don't think they favor teams. I think they favor even.

They're going to give Dallas some physicality in game two. They're going to allow Dallas to be physical. The officials will do that. Now, by the way, Boston will be allowed to be physical too. Will they take advantage of it? But I think Boston, I think my take is if I was a coach of Dallas, I'd be like, guys, we've got to win possessions on the defensive end. We may not match up offensively.

We have to win the defense event. We have to move the ball better. We had very few assists early. We've got to win in the defense event. I think game two will be a different. It'll look like a different basketball game. That's my guess. No, I 100% agree.

And you bring that physicality, you take an early lead. You add pressure to Boston, which changes the free feeling that you have when you shoot the basketball. Maybe they have a lesser shooting night and you give yourself a chance to win. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep. That's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picket here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get out of here, I wanted to ask you about Dan Hurley. So I obviously as as someone

who roots for the Lakers, I actually was very excited about this today. But what was your kind of takeaway from that, that big reveal this morning? Well, I saw it at like 435, a woj bomb starting my day. And my take was, I said, you know, because I founded the volume, so I tend to look at things from a managerial position. And so I said, if I was Rob Polinka and Jeannie Bus and Minnesota's got Ant, and OKC's got Chet and SGA, and then there's Lucas 25, and you start looking up and down and, you know, Yokic is still in his prime. Boston's two guys are in their prime.

And you start looking around at San Antonio and Houston this year, I think will pop. Like, it'll be different teams. And you start looking around and thinking, listen, man, we, we, We've got to start drafting and developing here. Like, this is what the league, if you start looking at the second apron, what the CBA is in the NBA, we're not going to get a third huge star here with LeBron and AD. We're just, this is not going to work. So we have got to draft and develop.

And so you can't watch these playoffs and not come to this conclusion. The NBA has pivoted to young stars. KD. LeBron Steph, it's over. Like they're not running the league anymore. Like Tatum now is one of the veterans. And I think my takeaway is, okay, who does that? Who drafts? Who builds culture?

Who's tough? It wasn't a pivot away from LeBron. It was a pivot toward the league. The league now is a draft and developed league. These players are going to get rich. But the league watched what Golden State did with KD, and they didn't like it. And the owners didn't like it. And the league didn't like it.

I can remember talking to fans of the NBA being like, I hate this. This is just not fair. And I think the league heard that. Adam Silver did not like that move at all. And so I think the Lakers, Rob and Jeannie, look at this and think there's a change. We don't want to be the Clippers, old, dysfunctional, you know, one guy, Terence man that feels like he's young. You know, it's a lot of names and great on the marquee. It's a great movie poster.

It's not really a championship team. And I think the Lakers don't feel like it. And, you know, I just, that's my takeaway is they're looking at this and stepping back and going, we like JJ Redick, but he has no history in drafting and developing. This is not what he does. By the way, there's Connecticut players in this draft. You know, there's just, and also early the last three years, he's recruited almost probably every good domestic player in the first round.

He's recruited or seen them. So I think they're going to be active. And that was my take is that you can't watch these playoffs. and not see this gigantic pivot. You know, it's like when Manning Brady and Big Ben got old, and you're watching Mahomes and Lamar and Al, and it's like, oh shit, we got ourselves a new league. As soon as Tom leaves, we got a new league.

It's a brand new league. And that was my take on it. Yours. Yeah, so I, I, there were three reasons that I was excited about it. The first one is exactly what you said, the draft and development piece. I think a big part of it, too, like you mentioned, with the cap rules changing, it's going to be really difficult to have more than two stars. Almost impossible, yeah.

Exactly. And I think he specifically is going to excel at finding role players that are great connective pieces next to stars because the Laker brand is going to continue to bring in star talent in one way or another, whether it's through the trade market, whether it's through free agency, they're going to get stars. But because of the new rules, you're not going to get three of them. So you're probably going to have two. And it's going to be about working on the margins in finding discounted value. players, which I think is something that he's going to excel with.

The second two pieces of it, one, he's an offensive genius, like literally an offensive genius. And specifically what I find fascinating is he was capable of generating space for his offense with multiple non-shooters on the floor, which I think is super fascinating on a Laker team that has an Anthony Davis that can struggle to shoot the basketball, that is going to probably play a Jared Vanderbilt that struggles to shoot the basketball. And he's he has all these interesting concepts. Like he's really good at disguising his sets.

He's a big believer in weak side action, which basically occupies help defenders by making them think about what they're doing on the weak side while your stars are running ball screens on the other side. He's super creative as a tactician, especially on the offensive end of the floor, which I think is going to be work wonders for a Laker offense that can get stagnant sometimes. And then the third piece of it is he's just a psycho. He's a psycho. He's competitive.

And then I think he's going to bring enough cashé because that's the fear, right? Like if you're going to play devil's advocate, you're like David Blatt comes over, championship coach from Europe. LeBron scoffs at him and says, I want the assistant instead, right? So like, that's what you're scared of. But I actually think LeBron has a lot more respect for Dan Hurley. I mean, especially seeing as he's been kind of like watching as a fan. as he's had his success over the last couple of years.

I think he'll have some success there. And then I complained at you nonstop this season about Darvinham not holding players accountable and then becoming a team that was really sloppy for stretches because they didn't value individual possessions. They weren't good at attention to detail. That will not fly under Dan Hurley. He will be on those guys. And I think it'll help a lot.

Well, I try to defend Darvin Ham, but he is a defensive-minded coach. you see this in the NFL. Offense comes easier. The attention to detail from offensive coaches is better. So, like, when you watch offensive, like Steve Kerr, like his, he, if you ever, when they Mike Steve Kerr, he picks on stuff up so quickly. Like, like, I'm not seeing it. I'm watching the game. He is a possession to possession coach, Steve Kerr. He watches every little mistake. Mark Jackson, defensive coach. I always viewed him as more of a defense. coach, the offense could never quite get in sync. Now, Mark did a good job on the defensive end, but I thought what Darwin Ham is he could get players. I thought Anthony Davis was absolutely

sensational defensively this year. I thought he was the defensive player of the year. But his offense was inconsistent. Darvin's not going to help you a lot there. Darvin was a very limited offensive player. And so I think, I think just like in football, I think coaches have, Vogels good with Biggs. Dan Tony's doesn't like Biggs. Coaches all have strengths and weaknesses. Marvin, I thought, was not as detailed offensively, allowed sloppy possessions, what didn't hold players offensively accountable. They'll make it up on the defensive end. That's not the league. That's just not the league.

You're going to shoot your way. I mean, you start looking at teams. Dallas was a better offensive team than Minnesota. They won the series, you know. It's, you know, it is as hard as New York played, you start, look, Indiana was more consistently a higher tempo, healthy, or better offensive team. Offense is winning these series. Like, effort's great, but that's why Boston's favorite in this series.

They got five, six guys that can score 20. And so I think Darwin doesn't necessarily fit what's happening to the league, which is increasingly skilled, increasingly unstoppable for players of size. And I think Hurley's good with that. He understands what the sport is becoming, that you play hard, play with urgency. Get the details down offensively. Don't give up sloppy possessions. Lakers would have bad quarters offensively.

Like just, I mean, there are times, if you didn't have LeBron on the floor and Austin Reeves was in foul trouble, you were done. They just were a bad offensive unit. So, yeah, I think to your point is I try to defend Darvin Hamm, but I'm seeing some of the same stuff in the NFL where the skill now in the NBA is just too damn good. It's just too good. There's just, if you're not equipped offensively, possession after possession, you'll just get run out of this sport really quickly.

Oh, for sure. Like, look at this particular matchup here for Dallas versus Boston. Like a big part, you mentioned it at the start of the show, like the stagnation, the lack of the ball and player movement, the Luca Kyrie, kind of your turn, my turn, stuff. That is, it works for Dallas because Luca's so damn good and he might be the best player in the world. But like, I do believe there's a reason why the league has shifted towards more ball and player movement. That's why we're seeing teams like Denver succeed and Golden State succeed.

Golden State kind of really revolutionized five out offense and brought it to where it is today. And like, I just think, I think Dan Hurley is in touch with what works in modern basketball, which I think is going to help a ton. I think he's, I think he understands the complications of the transition to the NBA, which I think will be his probably his biggest challenge, but he knows he's going to have to talk differently to professional athletes than to college players. He knows that there's going to be more, you know, media pressure with that L.A. job on a day-to-day basis. Like, we talked about D'Arvinham all the time this season because it's like that's,

if you were ranking high, like high pressure coaching jobs in America, Lakers head coach is pretty high up on that list, especially when LeBron James is on the roster. And so I think he's up for it. I think he can do it. Go ahead. One of the things I've talked about today kind of ad nauseum on my show is I said the Lakers had 20 years in the second biggest city in the country with no NFL teams. And the NFL eventually gobbles up every city. And now you've got Harbaugh and Herbert and McVeigh and Stafford and the second richest owner in Stan Cronkey. And the Dodgers look like they're 110 win team. Here comes USC to the Big Ten.

Balmer's got a new arena. The key in this is, are you okay now being the third biggest story in L.A.? fourth on some weekends? like because this city has got star coaches and star teams and star players. And it could be, you know, Wagner, Rhode Island, Yukon. He had a losing record each year. He's a culture guy. He's an oven guy.

He's not a microwave guy. It's not a, none of this fake bullshit. Like this is a, this is going to be a slow roast. Okay. And LeBron and Anthony Davis, if he signs a five-year, $60 million deal, the Laker Genie Bus doesn't have the financial. wherewithal. She's not Balmer. That's not a rounding air for her.

So this is a real commitment. So I think everybody's just got to take a deep breath. The Lakers had this L.A. They were winning titles with no NFL team. The Dodgers were good, but not winning World Series. They owned the city for 20 years. And they got real used to leaking stuff to the media and just stealing thunder.

Well, if you're 38 and 44 in this city next year, and Herbert and Harbaugh, and here come the clippers in their new arena, you're going to be the fourth story really quickly. So I think that's the key to me. It's not Hurley. It says the organization ready to take a deep breath, make tough decisions, get a little younger, give up some players, get some draft picks. I think they'll be fine. Dan's intense, you know, Spolster is way more. I mean, Steve Kerr's intense.

Tileu's intense. But good ones are. I mean, Dan Tony's not. You know, Mike Malone in Denver. He's like a fistfight waiting to happen. I'm not. I'm okay with intense. I think players respect it.

I think you can get run over very quickly in this league. I think this is a moment in time where LeBron's probably got two years left, maybe three. LeBron knows, like, this is no longer like running through him. I think he knows it. I think he understands his value, merchandising tickets, production. He sees his value. But LeBron knows. You know, this is, this is, this isn't Mahomes and his prime.

This is not what this is anymore. This is not, this is not the bubble year. This is not Cleveland or Miami. This is a different time. So I'm excited for it. Plus, it's just, let's be honest, it's interesting. That's a big swing. That's interesting.

To your point, if they have another stretch like they did post the late Jerry bus passing away, where they suck for a decade, like that could cost them their whole. But they had no, they didn't have a direction then. Exactly. Hurley will guarantee you a direction. Exactly. That's my point is like,

I like that type of aggression because he's the kind of guy that can establish a culture that lasts. And, you know, one of the other things, too, as far as like the money goes, I think it's crazy out all the hand-wringing about the amount of money these coaches are making. Like, if you had to pay Dan $15 million a year, Like, what is that in the grand scheme of the salary cap?

What is that in the grand scheme of this new media rights deal? What is that in the grand scheme of all of this? The league's making seven and a half billion a year. Like, who cares? And other thing is, you have to empower a coach. You can't be your coach five. And your seventh guy is making $28 million a year. You just can't do that.

You have to empower these guys. So I've said it. I would pay him $12 million a year, $12 million a year, 12, 12 and a half. His wife's a Jersey girl. He runs the best program in college. You just, you know, it's, I like the new NBA. I like the European players. I like the mobility is one of those, like small ball. Small ball is a lot of nonsense. It was the warriors. Mobility, it worked with LeBron and KD for three years. Like the truth is, most of this league, most of the stories, you know, Boston figured it out with KG, but Pierce was a Celtic.

And by and large, mobility, it hasn't worked for Katie. It worked for three years. LeBron made it work everywhere. So this is the league. Embrace it. Go get the guy who does it better than anybody in college. And by the way, he does it with big personalities. It's the Northeast.

He takes five-star guys. He takes three-star guys. Like, Yukon's a big program. High expectations. You know, they get high-profile players, high-profile transfers. They're going to be favored with another national championship. So it's not like he's dealing with a bunch of two-star guys that he runs over. These are great players. These are guys with egos, yeah. We just need to get you on a Zoom call with the Hurley family so you can sell them on how

great Los Angeles is. And then we get you to close the deal. All right, Colin, this was fun. I'm looking forward to game two. This NBA finals, Game 1 instant reaction was brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Unlimited 1.5% cashback is just the beginning. Cashback 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% at drugstores, 5% on chase travel, and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? All right, guys, that is all we have for tonight. I will have a film session at some point up on the YouTube channel tomorrow. As always, I appreciate you guys.

We will see you again live after game two on Sunday night. The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy. guy not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk

to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with

Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a podcast. That was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clippert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.