The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Celtics Hang On To Win Game 3 In Dallas

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the Celtics win over the Mavericks in Game 3! They start with the Mavericks inability to match up with the Celtics (4:30) and Jaylen Brown’s ascension to a 2nd tier superstar in the league (7:30). Then they focus on Luka Doncic being a complete liability on the defensive end of the floor (13:00) and why it’s nearly impossible to win a title when your star can’t hang on defense (23:00). Next, they discuss why Jayson Tatum is the perfect star for this Celtics squad (25:00) and why we’ve possibly underestimated how great Boston is (27:00). Finally, they discuss the life and legacy of Jerry West  and his impact on the history of the league (32:00) and why the Celtics were just too good NOT to win the title this year (43:00) (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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everybody. This NBA finals game three instant reaction is brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited. How do you cash back? As usual, we've got Colin Coward here to break it all down. It's kind of a funky game. Pour Zingis out to start a lot of attacking the rim for Dallas getting easier shots around the basket, but that classic Boston driving kick attack and excellent defense gets a big, what was, where they were up 21 in the early fourth quarter, a little bit of a classic Boston meltdown, a bunch of bad isolation possessions. Dallas gets going a little bit, but at the end, Luca fouls out. Boston just seeming, it kind of reminded me of that Pacer series where they just kind of took control of the game late with a few good defensive possessions and a few quality

driving kicks. And all of a sudden, the Celtics are up 30 in the final. So Colin, What's your biggest takeaway after game three tonight? Yeah, well, I mean, you can't be a lobsided team, and they're completely lobsided. When Shaq and Kobe were winning championships or Michael and Scotty, there were a lot of helpers. I mean, good God, you could go to Ron Harper, could drop 20 and Ku Klux and Kerr and Paxon. You know, there were just other guys that could contribute. I mean, the first half, it was 5150 at half, and it was Boston against Luke and Kyrie. So I think you just can't be that long.

And I also think, to your point, so my first takeaway is it's just too much. I thought, I wrote this down on the fourth quarter, Luca looked cooked, and he's not a good defensive player, but, you know, he's just, he doesn't slide quick enough, he doesn't get in great position, and he can complain a couple times in the first half. He complained so much that he got behind on defense and got burned. But I think what we're finding out is Dallas had the things that they did against Minnesota, they just can't do against Boston. We saw them beat an old team, a young team, a big team. They don't have the personnel to match up on either end of the floor. They just don't. This is just a mismatch. And I think it starts begging the question is,

what do we do with Boston? This is one of the great runs by a team ever. Is it an Eastern conference that's weak, or have we undervalued just how good their seven-person rotation? you know, if Porzingis and Horford are off the bench, that's a pretty good seven, right? Yeah, I think Boston's really, really good. And I think a couple of underrated elements, they have, with exception of some brief stretches, they had an ugly stretch in the middle of game one. They had an ugly stretch, obviously, in the early fourth quarter here in game three. But they've been playing a lot of grown-up basketball, which is something they were a little

bit inconsistent with over the course of the regular season. Both Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum have understood their job. which is get the defense and rotation just so that everyone can play with an advantage. And then a big part of it, too, is Jalen Brown's rise. Like, we, you know, there's been so much talk about Tatum. And there's no doubt that, like, I think the fact that his jumper has been so often, he's having like a really bad jump shooting playoff run. I pulled this out on my show the other day, but this is the fourth consecutive season

where we've seen a decline year over year on his jump shooting. And so he's kind of just like going through something with his jump shot that's messing with parts of this game. but I think the major story is less about like Tatum being lower, but more about Jalen's rising into that tier. I think you could like if you were, it used to be for me that Jalen Brown was in that third tier of stars. He wasn't one of the best guys in the league.

He wasn't in that list of like all the flawed superstars. He was something beneath that. And basically the entire second half of the season and this entire playoff run, he's been playing at Jason Tatum's level right up there as one of those, that second tier of stars in the league. And that just is another infusion. of talent that just makes it that much harder to deal with. And, like, again, like, I do want to talk about Lucas defense.

And I think it's an important kind of discussion about his personal development. But I want to start by just kind of just pointing out that Boston is optimizing themselves. They're playing to the best that they are capable of with this group. And that's what makes them so difficult to beat. I do think you made a good point about the matchups, though. Like Dallas did get an old injured clippers team, a Thunder team, which by the way, pushed them pretty damn hard. Oh, yeah.

And but they're young and that some of their younger players really struggled on the offensive end. And then Minnesota, as we discussed, Adnazian, was just a nightmare matchup. Dallas was a nightmare matchup for them because they could protect the rim. And that's a huge weakness for a team in Minnesota that was literally 17th on offense in the regular season. So like I, they finally ran into a team that could actually push their specific weaknesses. And I think that's probably one of my biggest takeaways from this entire postseason run is like you have to be able to win different ways. You have to be able to play different ways. You have to be able to beat different types of teams. And Dallas was

good enough to beat the matchups that got out in the West, but they were not good enough to beat a team that could really spread them out and test their perimeter defense. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons I always considered Jalen sort of a second tier guy, not a third, but I think it's a little like D. Wade is that D. Wade could score 25. It was never beautiful. A lot of mid-range, playing way bigger. You know, he punched way above his weight physically. Most of the great scores, Michael and Bird, Kareem, though not pretty, dominant. They either have one or two go-to shots or they're pretty.

I mean, Carmelo was pretty offensively. Steph, historically, the great scores have just either been unique or they just can do something nobody else can. D. Wade and Jalen Brown are very strong, can be a little streaky, play both ends, highly resourceful, but it's not aesthetically beautiful. It's a tough physical 27. You know, they just bang into people. They're on the floor. And we punish people if, you know, James Hardin. It's just Kobe. It's just, oh, this is like, it does, I've never seen anything like it. And I think Jalen Brown to me is a little D. Wade where you look up and you're like, man, that guy, that guy plays big.

That guy's tough. That guy's strong. That guy's physical. You know, D. Wade was not always the best player on his team. He played with Shaq. He played with LeBron. But there were nights, D. Wade was the best player on the floor. And that's how I feel with Jalen Brown.

I think it's just one of those things that Jalen Brown deserves credit for his game. He has worked at his craft. You know what I mean? like he's like a radio star with a bad voice. Like he just worked outworked people because that jumper initially in the league, you know, he, I, out of Cal, I told you, he looked like a football player. I was just like, God, this guy is strong. He has worked his butt off.

I mean, D. Wade went to Little Marquette. He goes to Cal. These are got, these are not like guys that are going to UNC at a high school or UCLA. So I think Jalen is, and frankly, aggressive as we say matters, and he's really aggressive. That dunk, I wrote it down here somewhere, that dunk by him. My God. That's like epic, you know, ESPN classic. You know, that's like, okay, that's an all-time YouTube play.

Yeah, I would attribute Jalen Brown's kind of increased, you know, just the rise that he's taken in the season down to three things. First of all, he's defending at an insanely high level on the perimeter. He hasn't guarded like this since the 2022 season, except for he's smarter and a little bit bigger now, so he's even better at it. The second piece of it is understanding his best advantage, which is he is just a better athlete than everybody. So doing things like crashing the offensive glass had a huge offensive rebound putback

in crunch time. Just beating people off the dribble. Remember in game two? it was that drive-pass Maxi-Cliba for the left-handed finish. That was a huge play in that game. And then the third piece of it, and this I think, this is one of my favorite things about the game of basketball,

is that pursuit of adding something to your game and seeing it come to fruition on the biggest stage. Jalen Brown worked really hard over the last couple of years to become a mid-range post-up fadeaway jump shooter. And he paid his dues behind the scenes by himself, of one-on-one work. and here in this season, he was actually the best post-up fadeaway jump shooter in the league

based on points per shot attempt. And I thought it was really cool to see a game here where Dallas gets it down to one after Kyrie made that floater. I think it was 93-92. And he hit two massive post-up fade-away jump shots. What was out of the post and one was kind of like a stepback? But he had two massive pull-up mid-range jump shots to close that game out. And I guarantee you there was a moment there.

for him where he kind of looked in was like, this is why I put in all that work. It paid off. He put in the work. He got better. He gave his team a better chance to win the title. End of story. I want to shift to the Luca thing for a second. Because like, I, I sympathize with this play to a certain extent. I have all the offensive responsibilities. So obviously I can't just be an all world defensive player. But we're not asking Luca to be an all world defensive player. There's a certain like baseline level of effort that you need just to have your teams be able to function as a defense. And like so many people have made it about Luca versus Tatum and like, oh, well, Tatum struggling to guard Luca too. That's fine. But that's not what this issue is.

The issue is Dallas can't beat Boston unless Luca plays better defense. And you saw that, you saw the stat that was going around. Luca got blown by more times in game two of the NBA finals than any player had in over 10 years. Tonight, just like, falling asleep on Sam Houser. He's literally guarding one of their best shooters in the corner one pass away. He's not even looking at him. He's like five steps away, not even looking at him. There's a play where Drew Holliday is just running in circles around him, getting

offensive rebounds as Lucas is not paying attention on the defensive glass, not sprinting back in transition, complaining at the referees. Even like that last play, you know you have five fouls. And Jalen Brown's trying to drive past you and you're throwing your body in front of him and knocking him over, even if you think that that's a charge, You put the whistle in the refs' mouth. You made him make a call. I've just so disappointed in his performance in those areas in this series.

And all I heard all year is, and I watched him in the regular season, and I did think he played better defense. Playoff basketball, you start getting to conference finals and finals. It's a whole different ballgame. First of all, you're fatigued. You're now into 100 games. You're now tired. Also, the games are more intense. it becomes really possession basketball, so you can't take plays off.

So it's a great example when I hear people say, well, Luca's defense, it was a lot better this year. He committed in the regular season, but this league's getting younger, younger players are less refined, you don't have to be a great defensive player in the regular season against about 70% of this league. But Boston completely exposes you defensively. Like, everybody can score. I mean, they're big shoot.

everybody can shoot they're bench guys so it's it does show you the gap between you know the conference finals and the finals and everything else you are you're just it's a different level i mean michael jordan i've said this before michael jordan's legacy is you know if michael would have played in the western conference not the eastern he he you know he doesn't go six for six right he would have faced the Pistons and the Celtics, perhaps, in the finals. So his legacy is built on six for six. We just say he's the best player. Even though Russell 1-11, LeBron does everything better.

He's the, so it does, your legacy is largely framed by finals and Western Conference finals. This has been, this is going to stick to him. Like he was atrocious defensively in these finals. And that's going to stick. That's why I say my comp to him is he's a better Carmelo Anthony. I don't think he's in great shape. I don't think he's easy to play with.

I don't think he's committed on the defensive end. The difference is he can shoot the three Carmelo refused to. And he's better than Carmelo. But Carmelo was an elegant score. He was a beautiful offensive player. But, you know, he was threatened by Jeremy Lynn. So I'll stick by this. It's not a perfect comp.

But this is going to stick. I mean, if we're going to bang on Tatum and he's going to win the finals, then we've got to bang on Luca, who's going to get swept and is atrocious defensively. Well, and it was specifically one of the major issues for why they couldn't guard Boston. And that's the thing, like, to the point that I made earlier in the show, like, when I talk about being able to win different ways,

I'm mainly talking about the defensive end. You have to be able to guard different teams. Like, because guess what, you are going to face a Yokich in one round that is like this bizarre kind of like post-up force. And then you might face the warriors in the second round. It's going to be Steph Curry flying around screens. And he's going to be shooting all these threes. And they're going to be inverting.

and running a lot of four on threes with Draymond rolling down the middle of the floor, right? And it's like all of a sudden you play Minnesota. Here's Anthony Edwards, this old school two guard. And then you play a team like Boston. It's like no true superstar, but five great offensive players that are going to spread you out. So it's like you do have to be able to guard in different ways. It doesn't matter if you can play a role in the regular season. You have to be able to beat four playoff teams.

And again, as I mentioned earlier, I understand the offensive responsibility angle. Here's where I disagree with that as an excuse. This is the way your team is built. Yeah. Your team is constructed so that you and Kyrie do everything offensively. You can't ask PJ Washington to create offense. You can't ask Derek lively, Daniel Gafford, Josh Green, Derek Jones, Jr. That's not their job.

They are play finishers who play defense. And so by design, this team needs you to do a bunch offensively. So if you're going to get to the promised land, your goal of winning the title, you have to find a way to do that and guard. And this is, again, something I love about NBA history. Every superstar we've seen has encountered their greatest weakness, their greatest vice, right? MJ and Kobe, it was, are they willing to trust their teammates when it matters, right? For LeBron, it was the jumper. He had to literally have Greg Popovich ignore him at the three-point line in 2008.

And then again, in 2013, before he conquered those demons and became the basketball player that he needed to be. Like, even like Steph Curry and Nicole Yokic had to learn how to be better defense. Luka Danshich has to take better care of his body so that he can hold up better physically over the course of an 82 game regular season and playoff run so that he can do his job on offense while also being at the very least a functional part of the defense. He does not need to be all world. He just needs to be better than this. All right.

We are really, really close to crowning an NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way, especially in game one. How about you sign up for Draft King's Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the NBA? They'll cover it every step of the way. It takes you 90 seconds to download the thing. They got same game parlays, live betting, odds boosts. I like doing my parlays, two and three team parleyes. We've actually had a really good year with parley's. Warriors during the regular season.

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50 bucks. Only on draft kings, the crown is yours. I'm leaning Celtics and six, baby. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or in West Virginia, visit 1-800 gambler.net. In New York, call 877-8-8-Hop-N-Y or text Hope N.Y 4667-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. One no-swebett per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet.

Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering in eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. This is what happens if you look at most of the great players, Kobe and Duncan and Michael, and you can go back in the history of time. Many of them, LeBron, were great defensive players. in their prime. Others, Byrd and Steph Curry, weren't, but they worked at it.

They were good team defenders, right? Like, you cannot find an NBA champion with your best player is an awful defender. Like, I don't know if one exists. I mean, Janus defends. I mean, look at it.

Yokic, by the way, I think, you know, Yokic gets a bad rap, but his girth creates, He, you know, he bangs on a lot of people. He may not move his feet as well as you'd like. I don't think he's a bad defensive player. I don't.

I think he's okay. But again, Gordon's excellent porter can defend. You can't, you're not going to win a championship. By the way, Kyrie people say he's excellent defender. He doesn't look as great in this series. Again, he's been bad in this series. Yeah. So it's almost like in the NFL, we fall in love.

when quarterbacks run around. But eventually against better defenses and better defensive coordinators, you have to do most of your work in the pocket. Mahomes will run every Super Bowl fourth quarter because he can, but he understands it. But we fall in love with running quarterbacks because it's so damn exciting.

I love Jared Gough. It's not exciting. Lamar Jackson, I like watching him play. It's the same here. We fall in love with offense because it does win in the regular season. And it does win championships. But at some point, you're going to face a wrong,

roster that's going to expose you. And so whether it's running around as a quarterback or scoring these points, ball usage, there's a price. Harden, worn out, Luca, I mean, let's be honest about Luca Beyond D. He looks gassed. He looks tired. He looks, you know, so I don't want to pick on him because he's obviously a gifted player, but this is the difference.

When Yokic lost that series of the Minnesota, there was nothing to really pick on. right? Like you're like, well, they led by 20. Like, there's a reason we're picking on Luca. There's a reason we're tough on Tatum. And let's move to Tatum. I think to your point, I do think he's, this is a confidence thing. Like he doesn't, you know, he had a couple of big baskets late. But it is interesting. It does create an interesting scenario is you're watching your teammate crush. He's got a better matchup, right? And you said, and you're saying, and you're saying, you're sitting there thinking, well, his matchups better. It's kind of fun. I'm conserving energy. And the truth is, we have huge leads. How often do they need me? Now, in the fourth tonight,

he had a dunk at the rim. He had a couple big shots. So they did need him, and he delivered. But you can see, you know, in these mismatches early, Jason, he's sitting around, you know, these stars, LeBron does it. They conserve. They're like, I can conserve. They haven't needed him. they needed him in the fourth quarter a couple big baskets and he delivered tonight. Yeah, we've talked about this before but like I

it really dawned on me about two thirds of the way through this season or I was thinking for all the flaws that Tatum has as a, like tonight it was kind of infuriating to watch him just repeatedly settle for that pull up three point shot even though he literally hasn't been able to make it

for like three years. But it's like he's kind of the perfect guy for this group. Because you need someone that's absolutely willing to feel out whether, like he will not grab the reins unless everyone else is falling apart. Like if someone else has it going, he'll just keep going to that guy. And like,

and so he's kind of in a weird way, like for this particular group, he's the type of superstar that kind of actually does float all the boats higher. He does kind of just seem to, by virtue of his willingness to kind of just disappear into different roles based on what that game needs. It's made it so that this team, because again, my fear with Boston was, will they be able to do this? Will they be able to play drive and kick basketball and trust each other and avoid the bad ISO threes and play defense the way they need to? And they have.

And I mean, again, like, I feel like everything comes back to like what conversation we're having. If we're having the conversation is Tatum one of the best like two or three players in the world, then yeah, it's like we got to be a little bit more nitpicky. we're talking about Luca. You're wondering, you said you don't want to pick on Luca. This is a pretty low bar that we're asking here. Like, we're not saying you need to be all world. You just can't be like highlight real bad on the defensive end of the floor. Like that's what we're talking about. And so again, with what's up fam, this Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play

the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass, but get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong, and Will Ferrell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV.

who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough.

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Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind this. scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers.

We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the context of where Tatum is in this league, I think he's done a beautiful job leading this team. You can't roll through the playoffs like this.

I mean, they were 23 and 7 against the West. I think if you count the playoffs, 44 and 11 against the East, and they're just a hot knife through marjor. And then the playoffs, you do have to have a conversation like, have we sort of undervalued just how good they are? And I was thinking tonight when Horford had a big, I think a defensive player or rebound late. And I'm like, dude, he's like their seventh.

I mean, they're games. I mean, it's like, geez, this team's got a lot of, It reminds me a little bit when Andre Iguodala was the MVP and the Warriors finally, you're like, you're a pretty deep team and your bench guy. They aren't as electric or aesthetically pleasing as the Warriors, but I'm telling you, they have more good shooters than the Warriors. The Warriors just had the best shooter on the planet and the best catch and shoot. The Warriors probably had three of the four better shooters if they match, but if you're going seven deep, I just don't think NBA teams, Jason, this is a younger league. They're not equipped to beat Boston.

It's almost like the league got caught flat-footed when they added Drew and Porzingis. And even without him tonight, you're like, it's just, it's a young league. People don't have that many wing defenders. And by the way, wing defenders has been for about three years what the league wants. Well, nobody's trading when they get them. Nobody's giving them up. So it's like there are excellent wing defenders in the league. Boston just happens to have like four and they have seven shooters.

So I do feel like the Celtics to some degree kind of have caught the league flat-footed by upgrading at the Marcus Smart position, upgrading at Porzingis, who didn't play, so Dallas scored low tonight, a couple lobs returned. But we got to be honest about this. It's a moment in time. The league can't defend this team. They're just, when they're playing ball movement Celtic basketball, like that second quarter, nobody's stopping this team.

Nobody. Yeah, I think this is probably the first NBA team I've ever seen that can credibly run a full rotation, like literally a full eight-man rotation where every single player can dribble shoot and pass well. Everyone. It's truly a unique combination. And so to your point, I don't think NBA teams are prepared for that. They're not. Now, I've been thinking a lot about where I would rank Boston, among other champions over the course of the last couple of days.

And it's complicated because I do think this team appears more dominant than they actually are in the sense that the bottom of the east was extraordinarily weak. So they racked up a ton of wins there. Two, the Eastern Conference had five good teams. Four of them ended up on the other side of the bracket. So they only had to play one of them and that team was injured. Those teams all beat the heck out of each other. The Celtics had two easy first round opponents. also, I think you and I would both agree that Minnesota and Denver would have presented more

issues to Boston. Way more. Than Dallas would have like Minnesota has the personnel to contain on the perimeter, which is like literally what you have to do to beat Boston. So I do think like when I was thinking about it, like there are teams that are somewhat more limited in recent champions like that Warriors team with Steph. I didn't think that was a great roster. I thought that was just Steph literally just like just hit the peak of his play there in

that game for and obviously a deserving champion, but Steph was that team. That was not a super talented team. The 2021 bucks, that was the COVID year, a bunch of good teams and good players were out. But I think, I think, like, I think Boston has a case to be better than that like Denver Lakers, Raptors tier that we have in the last few years. My one pushback on that would be, those were awesome teams that also had the undisputed best player in the world on them at that time. because in 2019, LeBron was hurt, you could make the case, Kauai was that guy, right? Like Yokic last year, probably still the best player in the world. LeBron in 2020, I thought was the best player in the world.

So that's the one thing that complicates that discussion. That said, to your point, in terms of the league being flat-footed, you got to beat Boston to win the title. So you better have guys that can guard on the perimeter. And even your weak links better be able to at least do something within the scheme, like funnel to the right spot, like compete on the glass, get back in transition. And so I think that if there's something that Dallas has to learn from this and Luca specifically, if you're going to, like, Boston's probably going to be heavily favored to win the East again next year.

Yeah, easily. And so that means if you're going to encounter this team again, you better be ready for this challenge. And I think that's going to be something they're going to have to look into. Again, Luca individually, all these teams like, teams like the Lakers that have like, they're always playing two or three bad perimeter defenders. That could be a nightmare if you ran into Boston for whatever reason. teams like Denver, like Denver even, I would have been interested to see this matchup because of seeing Yokic Garden Space, seeing Jamal Murray Garden Space, seeing Michael Porter Jr.

Garden Space. And so all of these teams, I think, are going to be looking at it and like, we got to get more athletic on the perimeter. Yeah. So let's talk a little Jerry West. 86 years old by now, everybody has seen the stories. One of the things that really jumped out to me this week was how badly the Lakers have butchered their coaching search. And I thought they sort of butchered the death of Jerry West. They were very late on sending out something like four to five hours late. I had a discussion with somebody yesterday and they said, you know, to preserve the bus, Jerry Bus legacy, Jeannie may want to consider selling. She can't compete financially. It's not an elite front office. You know, the Clippers office, the executive suite, has far more people, far richer owner,

going into a new arena. It's, they're just not. I look at the Lakers, very petty with Jerry West. Come on, he's the logo. And I never faulted them when Phil Jackson and Jerry West, you know, they, you know, there's reports. That's not who Jerry would have hired. They were never built to get along, right that that was never going to work i i get it um but i thought between this coaching search which has been embarrassing i mean when you go after a college coach and you can't bid more than kentucky does i mean this is the law california is the largest economy in the country los angeles i think is the biggest single city economy maybe at san francisco with silicon valley but i thought that was embarrassing and i thought they handled the jerry west thing poorly

and I will say this. I reached out to a couple people today because it happened right before I went on the show, so I didn't get text during the show. But what people really said was is that if you think of how long Jerry West was in basketball, it's like eight to 86. I'm like, you know, eight years old to 86.

And that all those, the tough childhood, the brutal childhood, lost his brother, his dad verbally and physically abusive. It, that kind of isolates you like you feel like you're on an island. You don't trust dad and there's loss of life and the family. Jerry became a great friend and a great listener and a great ally to players. And I don't think that ever left him. I mean, I think to the very end, it's pretty remarkable when an 80-year-old man is revered by 23-year-old men. that's really rare. I mean, it's one thing if you're like, you know, you landed on the moon,

you're an astronaut, you know, we all have these iconic figures. But for people in your industry to still like, hey, let's get Jerry West on the phone. And I think Jerry's rough childhood created this sort of metal and steel. You know, he said, a lot of people say they're dogs. He goes, I was a wolf. I ate dogs. There's a toughness with Jerry. And I wouldn't want to go his passed to get it. But I mean, he, he, the word I got from two people today was like, he was relentless. If Jerry wanted something, you know, that movie, Rick Buecker said today, he was called the logo and El Loco. Like he, like they were both nicknames. So, but I guess going back to my, my point with the Lakers, I thought they were really petty on his death, right? Like, you can be petty in life.

Don't be petty when somebody dies. Like, tell your ex-wife. your ex-husband, if they pass, that's the day that you show some grace in class, right? Even if you've had acrimony in a relationship. Yeah, again, it's a low bar. It's a low bar. It's the day that he died. You're expecting more than that.

I, you know, obviously, obviously Jerry was one of the original psycho competitors. Yeah. The guys that are just wired a certain way that obviously led to their success. I, you know, what fascinates me with him, too, is he's just one of the most. respected basketball minds that ever came into the league. And he's got his fingerprints on all of these

weird turning points in NBA history. For instance, he was basically the guy that put Kobe and Shaq together. Yeah. I don't know if you remember this, but he was the guy that stopped the warriors from trading Clay Thompson for Kevin Love. Oh, no, he said he would resign. Yeah. Like, that was a huge, like, that was a huge turning point in the history of the NBA, had they made that deal because I mean as I think Kevin Love is a little underrated in NBA history but he wasn't Clay and Clay obviously was a natural fit with that team say what you want about the Clippers their failures have primarily had to do with health but like I mean if the clippers ever could stay healthy and together with Kauai at the top of his game they would

have just been a better version of the Celtics team and like he he's how rare is it too to see an older guy who's been around the league that long who's that who's got that much of his finger on the pulse of where the game of basketball is heading because that's so unique because usually it's the older guys that are, you know, still run an eye formation and still not playing with this and they're stubborn. Yeah, exactly. And he's, he was the guy that was just kind of ahead of the curve in all of those different ways. And like, that's what I'll always remember about Jerry West is if you're writing the short list of the guys that, that were the basketball geniuses in the history of the league, he's just on the short list there. Yeah, they're, um,

There was a humility about him. You know, it's weird to say, but you can be really confident and simultaneously humble. You can't be arrogant and humble, but you could be confident and humble. And he straddled that line where, and again, his childhood probably had a lot to do with that. You know, you're very grateful when you kind of feel like you escape tough times. And, you know, it's like when they, you know, I was a child of divorce, not to bring it back to me, but when you're a child of divorce, it doesn't matter how much you make. You remember not being able to afford, like, cleats in high school and having to borrow a friends. Like, you remember having to wear, like, ripped shorts in PE class because your mom and dad were divorced.

Like, I don't care if you're 70. That shit doesn't go away. Like that Tom Brady, to this day has a chip on his shoulder because he went to six round. You can win 30 Super Bowl. It just doesn't matter. So it's sometimes really bad parenting and bad situations create jet. fuel and humility and gratefulness. And I think Jerry had all of those things. And, yeah, well, he won't have to watch the Celtics hoist a trophy. I guess they're, Jerry, because I know he

didn't like that. Boston has had a great deal of success. The Red Sox don't feel like they're in that stratosphere, but between New England and the Celtics, you know, I said this before the series. The Celtics were too good not to win one. They're two. too weird to win four, and this thing will eventually break up. Porzegas's health. Derek White will get paid for by somebody. They're just too good not to win. And in this NBA, you know, I watch them tonight, when they are moving the ball,

like the second quarter, I mean, my notepad, I was, I'm watching it with my daughter. I'm like, this is insane. This is like, this is like, I mean, this is like, if you're in a gym and a bunch of college guys come in and start playing against non-players, and you're like, God, everybody's, everybody's great. Like, there was a point you're like, this could be a 40-point game. This is Dallas. The crowd just went quiet. I think Boston's too good. Too good not to win a title. Yeah, and we were on that over the last couple of years. They were going to get one with this group. As soon as they made the Porzinkas, Drew Holiday Trade, it just felt like inevitable that once in the next three years

they were going to get one. It's just a question of when. And like, and, you know, I think, I, I Again, I think that it really came down to all season long. It was whether or not Boston was going to play to their... What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges. of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. figure it out real quick. Ah, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So, yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show.

I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay

to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of, ha, who. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune in a pod meets Twitter. world for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend, and business manager.

And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Strengths when it mattered, and they did.

Were we going to get the Jalen Brown that fell apart against Miami last year? Or were we going to get the Jalen Brown that we know he's capable of being? He's been the Jalen Brown that we know he's capable of being. Like Drew Holiday, was he going to be a clunky fit or was he going to be a natural fit? He's a natural fan. By the way, watching Drew Holiday Guard, Kyrie Irving down the stretch of that game, just like there's so many highlights now in NBA finals history from the last few years of just Drew just putting the clamps on people. Hey, by the way, I thought of this.

You know, pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, don't get greedy. Is this a moment in time? In a weird way for Dallas, this is sort of a, hey, be careful about Kyrie. You got to the finals. this was wonderful. But Jason, he had like, he's had eight bad playoff games. Like this, like every third game, it's bad. And it was atrocious defensively.

If there's anything out of this series that you go, okay, it's, you know, if Kyrie comes out of this thing, you know, we've seen this with Andrew Wiggins. Contract year gets to the finals. It's the minute he got the bag, he's never been the same player. Like, this is a reminder. Kyrie's not good defensively. He can be streaky. He's very hot and cold. He can fall in those Boston games in Boston.

He gets very ISO very quickly. Just, you know, again, you got to the finals with him. As I was watching this, I thought, there were times tonight I'm like, this isn't the worst thing for Dallas. This isn't. And now you'd say, well, Porzingis, Brunson, Kyrie can't. Well, he got to the final. Did you ever, I mean, did you ever, I don't know, I'm watching the game tonight and I'm thinking, I'm trying to think of positives for Dallas. And my positive is, well, they're not going to assign Kyrie to a massive extension in a year, right?

Yeah, I think, I think that Kyrie has been a lot more good than bad in this postseason run. I also think he was pretty good tonight for the most part. Again, the defense hasn't been good enough, but that's been a lot in the first half. Yeah. Yeah, he did. He was a big part of how they got that early lead. But he had two absolute stinkers in Boston, and there's just no way around it.

And like the hard part, too, is that it looked like the crowd got to him a little bit. My bigger fear with Dallas, and this is, by the way, this is not just emotion speaking. This is just what NBA history has told us. There hasn't been a since Katie left the Warriors. There hasn't been a team in the West that's even made it twice. So, like, it's a different team every year.

It's like, oh, here's the Lakers. Oh, here's Phoenix. mix, you know, oh, here's Golden State. Oh, here's Denver. Here's Dallas. Like, next year, Memphis is coming. John Moran's coming back. Jared Jackson and Desmond Bayne are getting better. They're going to be right there in the mix with everybody. Oklahoma City wouldn't be surprised if they were the one seat again next year, not to mention they have a trade to make. The Lakers are probably going to do something to go all in. Who knows what the Clippers are going to do heading into their new arena? There's so many good teams in the Western Conference

and, like, you trick yourself into thinking, like, oh, we're just going to, to be there every year. Like, I would be shocked if Dallas made it back to the finals next year, would you? Absolutely. First of all, Denver is already favored. And Denver will make, they'll make an addition. And Denver led by 20 in game seven against Minnesota and matches up much better with Boston. Also, with Boston, we have to be honest.

Porzingis' health is a real issue. This is not a new thing. Like, this is who he is. Also, it's different after you win. It is hard. you know, people take a little offseason, you know, make a little longer off season. That's just a reality. It is.

I mean, Jalen Brown signed him, Max played great. You know, it's, he may not equal that. So also, I think the Knicks will get another player. And I think the Knicks can be physical enough, could be a real pain in the ass for Boston in the playoffs, the way they play if they can stay healthy and be physical. So Philadelphia's got cap space. Milwaukee, Dame, Yonis, probably both don't get hurt. And I think everybody in the West getting better.

I mean, O KC is interesting. They have enough draft capital. They're good. They could get great with the right edition, like that. So, yeah, I think, I think, listen, I had Boston in six. It looks like Boston and four. But this NBA, which is more international and more parity, I'm here for it. You know, I sat there tonight.

And I'm like, if Dallas comes back and wins, you got to be kidding me. Like for two and a half quarters, I'm like, God, Boston is, this is, this is warrior like with KD. This is a machine. And then they just got into this awful ISO, like bad. I'm talking like, old Boston. I'm talking like 12 and 14 shots. You're like, that fallaways. Like, like, I'm like, Missoula, time out.

Get a set play. What are we doing? And then, you know, Tatum hit a couple. Jalen Horford, a big defensive play. But, I mean, I think this turned out sort of how we thought it's just been quicker. Well, it should have been more competitive, but we all knew this would happen. You're right. And, like, again, all eyes for me are on Luca.

If he comes into camp next year and looks physically different, that'll tell me a lot about what he's learned about his game and what he needs to do if he's serious about getting to the promise line. I'll be excited to see you that. All right, guys, that's all we have for tonight. This NBA finals, Game 3 Instant Reaction, was brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Unlimited 1.5% cashback is just the beginning. Cash back 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% at drugstores, 5% on Chase travel,

and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? All right, everybody, have a good night. We'll be back tomorrow morning to get a little bit further into this game. The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

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And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

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